WEBVTT - Ep. 16: Adam Janke 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:06.199 Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number sixteen of The Hunting Collective. 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.399 I've been O'Brien today we are joined by Adam Jankie. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:15.840 I wonder if it's Yankee J and K. You never 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:20.480 know how guys pronounced their last name. Really anyway, Adam 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:22.640 is a badass. He's the editor of The Journal and 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.439 Mountain Hunting and he is also the host of the 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.440 Beyond to Kill podcast on that platform, and he's doing 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:31.240 a lot of different things in the media world today. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.720 Adam is a relative newcomer to the hunting space in 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.640 terms of media and quit his his nine to five 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.760 to jump into this world, and and his brand and 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.600 what he represents has done great job in a short 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:50.440 period of time and represented hunting, represented mountain hunting, and 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:55.560 get people excited about the brand that they've created. So moreover, 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.800 Adam is our resident Canadian, as we'll call him. He's 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.520 from British Columbia, and he's got a lot to say 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.360 about the Grizzly Bear Band and a lot to say 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.600 about hunting politics up north, and really just is a 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.240 great guy to talk to. He's direct, he's frank who 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.759 really understands how to work through a conversation and keep 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.720 it on pointing, on tone, and I really appreciate talking 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.000 to him, and I like the guy. I think he's 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.640 got a refreshing take on everything and everything seems measured 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:26.360 appropriately so and he has a lot of awesome stuff 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.200 to say. So that's the episode number sixteen of The 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:46.920 Hunting Collective Coming at You with Adam Jenking. All right, Adam, 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.320 how's it going, man, I'm great, Ben. I really appreciate 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:56.120 you having me on. No problem, no problem, it's a 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.560 pleasure to um. I'm trying to think through if you're 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.280 the first Canadian ever to join the Hunting Collective, I'm not. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.760 I'm trying to think well, not Shane Mahoney beat you. 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.880 Yeah he did. Although if I if I only play 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:11.120 second fiddle of Shane Mahoney in and you know, over 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:12.960 the course of my life, I'm I think I'm doing 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.520 all right. Yeah, if you're chasing Shane Mahoney and you 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.840 and you're coming in second, you're doing all right. You're 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.080 gonna be You gotta get a new accent, maybe start 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.480 dressing a little different, but you'll be fine. Yeah, I'll 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.880 think that silver medal any day. And frankly, if if 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.680 I if I at his um at his age, and 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:33.880 I don't mean that in a disrespect respectful manner, but 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:35.720 if I'm sporting the hair and beard that he is 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.919 by and by that point in my life, I'm I'm 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:42.400 definitely in good company. Oh flowing a flowing main silver 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.160 main from our boys. Shane respect him a lot too. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.360 And and UM, it's a good starting point to start 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:54.000 with with Shane and what he does because UM conservation 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.040 is something that's been on my mind a lot lately, 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:00.400 just just because I was going back through and listen 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.160 it's the prior podcast and trying just to glean what 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.919 I had learned from from conservation and what I learned 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.120 from the people we've interviewed. And UM, I I find 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:16.600 that the British Columbia Grizzly Bear hunting band came up 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.600 very frequently as as kind of the north star of 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.320 what what we don't want to occur in the US 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:27.840 and elsewhere when it comes to UM hunting bands or 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.720 or hunting bands just based on what we'd call trophy hunting. 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.360 So do you have you know, being uh, our resident Canadian, 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.440 you have opinions and experience in that field. I know 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.680 that you do. Yeah, man, if you know it's it's 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.200 it's finally become one of those things that UM, I'm 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.680 probably a little sick of talking about. And and some 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.320 of the background on that bend is as much as 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.000 I hate to put it this way, UM, I wrote 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:01.360 a piece UM on our on the Drill Amountain Hunting platform, 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.640 our site or digital magazine to depending on how you 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:10.360 want to reference it, oh, probably three years ago, UM 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.440 outlining the fact that we were, um, we were at 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:19.040 significant risk UM as it related to the Grizzly grizzly 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.360 bear hunt and losing the grizzly bear hunt because of UM. 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:28.560 The way that hunt is UM, well, I don't even 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.279 know how to put it. But the way it's it's 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.400 it's message to in particular the non hunting public. I mean, 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.200 I think you and I would probably agree that we'll 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:40.280 probably never get um, you know, the anti hunters to 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:42.800 see eye to eye with us. And that's not you know, 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.320 meant to sound disrespect disrespectful over the anti hunting community, 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.839 but you know, they have their beliefs and we have ours, UM. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.640 But that that huge swath under the bell curve of 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.280 the non hunting public is what we're what we're kind 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.960 of fighting for right and and those that were uh 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.360 and still are very much opposed to the grizzly bear hunt. 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.839 Um uh, we're we're mounting a very concerted and sophisticated 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:11.239 effort to steer public opinion in a way that um, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:14.599 at least in part um led to this decision of 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.560 of an outright ban on all grizzy bear hunting in BC. Yeah. Now, 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.200 and that's I mean, it just becomes the first and 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:25.719 most not first, but the most prominent example um of 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:32.360 legislation changing based on public opinion in this way, and then, 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.760 as you said, a a organized effort to push that 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:40.000 legislation um and change those things based on you know, 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.600 the term trophy hunting and and you know, just the 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.200 particular motivation of hunting that one species in that in 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.159 that singular place. So, um, it just seems to me 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:57.600 from Vancouver over to Quesnel and up into the further 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.080 reaches of British Columbia that that there just is uh, 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.719 one set of opinions in the urban and suburban areas 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.200 and another set of the opinions in the rural areas, 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.160 and that that really does compared nicely to a lot 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.880 of the conversation we're having in the States, and it 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.200 doesn't compare nicely, but it is parallel. So is that 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.640 is that something that you've you obviously identified early on 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.240 and you continue to see as a problem going forward 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.359 for British Columbia. Yeah. And I would like to clarify 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:27.760 when I say, you know, I wrote about this, you 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.320 know whatever, it was too three years ago. I don't 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.480 want to you know, try to sound like some sort 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.240 of a sage. It was just um. At the time, 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.400 I was living in Vancouver and I was interacting with 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.200 a lot of people from all walks of life and um, 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.880 and you know, if I've hunted for forever, um, and 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:44.600 so you know, these sort of things would come up 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:46.839 and I would see, you know, how it was covered 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.719 in in in the in the main like newspapers, traditional 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.760 media wise, how it even got covered on you know, 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.040 local or regional TV news. Um. And so I mean 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.120 there are many, many, many people in BC who have 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.480 been involved in this debate and and you know, let's 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.600 call it fight for decades, right, and this has been 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:07.800 a hot topic in BC for a very very long time. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.760 I think say, um, Um, Shane, excuse me, um even 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.720 alluded to the fact that it was you know, not 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.000 a new discussion. It just came to a head, UM, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.200 you know, just late last year. And there's no question 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.880 that UM the decision that was made. And there's there's 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.640 a couple of things that should be clarified there right 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.440 because I know, UM a lot of people when I 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:29.920 when I when it happened, I heard a lot of 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.960 other podcasters or or people speak to speak to this 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:37.800 issue and say that, UM, you know, nent of BC, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.880 UM of the populace of BC was it was against 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.040 this so called trophy on. This gisby trophy on. And 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.080 if you actually dig into some of the polls and 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.360 some of the um UM the some of the methods 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.360 that were used to to seek out public opinion and 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.920 professional and UM you know, to to an extent impartial opinion, 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.760 the numbers don't really add up. So so what did 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:08.800 happen was a there was a a two pronged UM 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:14.600 A two pronged effort between the variety of NGOs UM 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.080 that our out notte UM anti hunting organizations in particular 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.560 when it comes to to large carnivores um and then 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.960 the new UM party that came into government to UM 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.600 to just simply push this decision through the bulk of 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:33.120 their UM support base will be undoubtedly in urban environments 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.480 in particular Vancouver and Victoria. UM, and they'll have supporters 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.319 you know, across the province. But if you go outside 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.240 of the what's called the Lower Mainland, which is effectively 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.559 the Greater Vancouver area or Victoria, you are going to 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.800 get very very different opinions from people on UM. You know, 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:54.120 the viability, sustainability and and support of of the Grizzly hunt. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.360 I mean, at the end of the day, Ben UM, 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:01.160 you know, the hunting community here in BC was, without question, 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.760 cap with your pants down right. We had no UM 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:10.280 organizing body too to you know, push back against some 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:14.520 of these these very sophisticated pr and social media campaigns. UM. 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.240 There was an immense amount of infighting because of the 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.360 whole resident versus nonresident issue that is that is ever 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.120 present in BC. And and just to add clarity to that, 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:26.959 there's a lot of people that live and hunting BC 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.440 that could care less how a legislative change impacts you know, 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.120 a as they would call them, foreign trophy hunter without 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.559 you know, realizing that it's a you know, these sort 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.400 of things impact all of us. And so I mean 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.880 we were we were disorganized, we were unsophisticated, and how 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.400 we dealt with this issue UM and UM and the 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:51.000 the decision came down right. And what's interesting as well 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.160 about the Grizzly bear band is, you know, this is 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:58.200 one of the most UM regulated and studied hunts on 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.760 the planet, without a shadow of a doubt, UM. And 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:05.080 so we had, you know, no shortage of statistics and 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:10.520 data to support the fact that it was absolutely positively sustainable. UM. 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.120 There was no negative impact on the population. If anything. 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.320 Many would argue that the population had improved UM over 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.480 the course of UM of hunting being allowed, because it 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.079 had been banned previously, going years back, and don't remember 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.880 exactly what year, UM. But we had no shortage of 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.760 data and this you know, I've talked about this before, 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.360 right as um As hunters were were quick to speak 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.160 a certain language. Let's let's loosely call that the conservation language, 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:38.800 which is factual, and it's good stuff and it's great, 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.400 you know, it's great information and it's important information. But 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.679 it just didn't fall on ears that we're listening. Yeah, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:51.400 I mean I think you I think both sides, particularly 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.400 in this side, that the hunting side, which is on 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:59.359 the defensive, is unable to see the nuance in the opposition. 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.360 And there is this, there is this easy and and 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.280 and you and I have talked about this, this lazy 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:11.000 falling back on conservation and that term and falling back 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:15.040 on um everything that goes with that. And I think 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.880 when an argument like this comes up and the opposition 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.520 is organized and looking for some nuanced thinking, that doesn't 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.360 just pair it out the party lines, the hunting party 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.000 lines like, hey, conservation, is this carrying capacity? Population control? 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.400 Even the specifics of the nature of grizzly bears and 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.840 and how they interact with other bears and how they 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.079 interact with humans and why population control is important. I 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:44.040 think all those things, while important ideas, aren't necessarily new ideas. Uh. 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.200 And I think when you face a new and more 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.960 organized opposition, which you would probably agree that this is 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.520 and UH wasn't, is that you have to then come 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.920 up with better ways to get your points across, and 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.600 more nuanced ways, in this case get your point across 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.160 that I think speak a little bit more to the 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.839 to your audience, which in this case is Vancouver and 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:10.160 Victorian and the Lower Mainland, as you mentioned, so right, UM, 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.360 and I guess I don't want to belabor this obviously 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.800 because everybody kind of knows the situation. But is there 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.079 something in the future now that you know the hunting 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.400 community and BC has been called other pants down, something 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.880 in the future that you see as a solution or 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.600 something that has been enacted or ideated at this point 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.520 that you you think might prevent this in the future 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.920 or be able to reverse decision like this. Well, I 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.480 mean there there are many to believe that um, this 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:38.480 this new government that came into power, this new party, 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.320 I should say, they came into power. UM won't UM 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.800 won't get reelected, so you know whatever, it will be 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:46.400 three and a half years. Now, Let's say down the 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.640 road that if the UM the government that was in 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.840 power prior to this, this this new party and and 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.640 this decision amongst many others that are a little bit um, 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:00.240 if you let's say the one UM the previous from 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.880 our party comes into power, that it will get reversed. Now, 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.440 I've also spoken with a ton of people that say, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.160 you know, hold on, it's um. It's it's all well 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:09.839 and good to think that, and to think that we'll 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.400 get support from from that party. But it's a pretty 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.160 hard PR pill to swallow, to say, hey, you know, 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.360 there was all this stuff about these beautiful animals that 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.640 you know, everyone was supposedly against lopping the heads off of. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.000 Well we're gonna let people lop heads off them again, right, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:29.800 And I'm putting those in in very you know, extreme terms, 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:31.120 but those are the sort of that's the sort of 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.160 stuff that was put out there, right and in these 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.560 in these PR campaigns from the NGOs, the anti hunt 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:40.000 NGOs was they used a lot of very graphic, very 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.480 false and in most cases in fact, but some very 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:49.000 graphic and um uh, let's say emotional um type of 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.440 examples of what it meant to be a grizzly bear 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.240 or so called trophy hunter. Um So it's a you know, 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:56.720 who knows, right, I mean that that's a that's a 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.520 tough hill to climb if you're a new party coming 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.679 into power and are supposed to sport the hunting and 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.000 fishing community and particular the hunting community and turn this 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.240 decision around. Um So, I don't know, I don't know 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.560 where that will where that will land as far as 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:13.280 the the know, the specific hunting community getting more organized, 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.679 things are being put into action. But um, this has 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:23.800 absolutely exposed um just how um factional the hunting community 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.520 is in BC. UM. As I, as I mentioned just 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.560 a few minutes ago. You have the resident hunters, you 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.720 have the guide outfitters. You have people that profess to 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.440 be meat hunters. You have people that that you know 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.080 loved grizzly bear hunt. You have people that are resident 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.840 hunters that are also guide outfitters, UM. And you have 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.200 some of the organizing bodies that are involved here that 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.520 should have you know, kind of had our backs, that 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.920 are that are playing politics in you know, behind closed doors. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.360 So I I really don't know. I mean that was 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.160 one of the first things I did after the initial decision, 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.560 which is actually just a ban on keeping um hide 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.480 head and claws. You can still hunt grizzy bears, you 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.440 just had to take the meat to leave everything else behind. 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:08.640 So even when that went down, one of the first 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.280 things I did was I started calling people that I 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.640 know we're involved in certain organizations and said, you know, 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.400 what's what's the plan here, like what's going on? And 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.120 everyone just sort of, you know, um figurative sense just 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:21.920 looked around the room to see who else had the 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:24.120 answer right, and and and that was then and things 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.600 that have been put into motion. Um, but it won't happen, 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:32.360 happen quickly, so um so time will time will tell. Yeah, 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.280 that's interesting to me, and there's a bunch of things 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.160 wrapped up in that to me that are you know, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.720 important overall. But it seems in general that we've always 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:47.040 had this. When you say anti hunting it it strikes 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.800 me as one side, the anti hunting side, is always 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.520 argue on emotion, right and and general sensationalism. Then you 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.480 have the hunting side in this case, or you know, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.280 really sometimes in America, the pro inside who's always trying 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:06.640 to argue pragmatism and not always factual information, but at 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:11.920 least the air of factual information. And those two sides 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.760 continue to go head to head, and that that that 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:21.400 emotional side can't reason with pragmatism and facts and common sense, 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.720 and the pragmatism side can't see the emotional connection to 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:30.960 the animal. And Steve Ronella puts it very very bluntly, 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.680 that an animal rights activist is good at taking care 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.440 of one animal, and that the hunter is good at 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:40.920 taking care of the entire population, and so I've spoken 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:42.440 to a lot of people. I don't know. This is 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.720 one I'd love to get your opinion on. I spoken 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.600 to a lot of people about how do we fix 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.840 that chasm, because it is a large chasm between somebody 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.320 who cares emotionally about that single being UM or somebody 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.720 who cares about Grizzly bears as a population and in 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.680 more of a figurative sense. Do you have any any 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.000 thoughts on that Having gone through this issue and having 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.320 being you know, kind of not in the middle, but 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.120 a large part of an issue like this where those 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.720 two ideas are at the four Yeah, I mean, so 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.359 there's UM. I think there's there's two at least potential 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:25.240 solutions here. One that UM I yea. In the discussions 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.520 I was having after both you know, let's call them UM, 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:34.440 segments of the whole Grizzly fiasco occurred UM that UM. 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.280 Just a lot of us came to agree on right. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.280 A lot of people that were involved either in some 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.679 of the politics or people they're involved with organizations that 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.199 are trying to you know, sort of get the shift, 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.760 get the ship excuse me, on on on course. UM. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.199 And and so there's there's that solution, and there's one 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.480 that's come to me a little bit more recently. And 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:57.200 so they are they're effectively external and internal UM solutions. 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:02.800 I think on the external side, you know, we as hunters, 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.400 as as you and I have said, UM, are very 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:10.520 quick to you know, pull out, pull the you know, 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.600 sort of conservation gun out of the holster, right. UM, 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.000 use all the data and the science that we either 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.399 find for ourselves or get spoon fed by all the 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.760 organizations out there that that are part of the hunting 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.879 community and are doing great work. I don't want to 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.679 sound like I'm diminishing the work some of these legacy 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.480 or organizations have done. UM. But we you know, that 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.560 was kind of the only AMMO we had, right And 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:38.160 and then when we get an emotional UM push back 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.800 from in particularly anti hunters, and then then that trickles 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.640 into the non hunting public, UM, we were very quick 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.720 to say, well, they're just being irrational and emotional, right 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.840 And and at the end of the day, UM, most 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.160 hunters love to hunt, and they do so for more 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.320 emotional reasons than they do rational reasons. And if you're 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.440 telling other people otherwise, you're telling yourself otherwise. I would 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:06.240 challenge that, um, um, that notion. Right. It's you know, 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.840 I hunt because I love to hunt and everything that 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.080 comes with it. And are there good reasons to do it? Yes? 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.280 Are there's scientific reasons to do it? Yes? Are their 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.560 management reasons to do it? Yes? Are there familial reasons 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.440 to do it? I eat, put you know, clean protein 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.720 in my freezer on my table. Sure. Um, But I 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.520 just love to hunt, I really do. And and so 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.440 we weren't acknowledging our own emotional connection to these issues 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.800 and and then using that, um, you know, those emotions 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.080 to communicate and connect with people on a real personal level. Right. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:39.720 We can't sit here and say we need to be 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.439 rational when you know, it's not human nature to be 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.520 rational all the time, if not most of the time. Right. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.480 And so I do think in terms of how we 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.600 communicate with in particularly the non hunting public, Um, we 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.800 just need to recognize that, you know, how we were 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.639 communicating with them, how we were and are to a 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.679 certain extent, um is falling on deaf years, you know, 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.680 Shane says himself, and I'll probably butcher it. But if 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.159 we you know, speak speak, what is it if if 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.120 for too long we speak only to ourselves, will will 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.240 be the only ones left listening, right and and I 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.240 think that's that's a big part of what happened here. 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.199 So externally, I think we need to, um, you know, 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.440 engage with the non hunting public. And I want to 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.239 be clear when I say that that that doesn't mean 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.600 we need to be conciliatory or you know, walk around 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:27.560 with our hands out saying please, sir, can I have 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.199 some more? We need to you know, stand stand up 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.120 for what we believe in, but make real connections with people, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.520 whether that's over food or in um, you know, town 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:43.080 hall settings or dinner parties or whatever the case may be. Like, 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.359 just engage with people, um, and and share some of 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.440 the emotional reasons you do it, right, um, and don't 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:53.120 just spew out um. But what I'm sure comes across 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:58.280 as sort of um, defensive justifications for for what we do. UM. 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.280 So that would be one and then two is on 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.159 the internal side of things. And this is linked to 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:07.000 that that thing I sent you earlier today is you know, 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:12.200 if we continue to segregate our own community by by 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.640 you know, labels like I hunt for meat. Well, sorry, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.960 let me back that up. If we continue to segregate 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:23.119 our community based on labels UM that we um you know, 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.399 identify with in terms of our reasons for hunting. I 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:28.800 hunt for meat, I hunt for trophy, hunt for it inches, 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.640 I hunt for maturity, I hunt for management, hunt for conservation. 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.520 I think we are are going to find ourselves in 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.280 a bad spot because we are doing the work of 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:43.000 the anti hunters by creating those divisions within our own community. 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.439 I'm a bow hunter, therefore I must not like the 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:49.000 long range people. UM, A trad bow hunter. Therefore, I 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.119 think anyone that takes a sixty yard shot with a 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:56.040 compound is um, you know, is the Antichrist, right, and 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.040 so you know those sort of things. I think we 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.480 need to sort out our own, our own house in 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.920 order as much as we need to think as as 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.480 hard about how to communicate with the non hunting public. Yeah. No, 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.120 I can agree with that wholeheartedly. And I think it's 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.119 just it's it's we're unlucky in this situation. Like we 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.920 not unlucky, but we have fallen into a passion something 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:18.800 we care a lot about that is complex and is regional, 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:21.960 and and it it doesn't always look the same. Hunting 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.679 doesn't look the same on the East Coast as it 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.280 does in the East coast of the States, as it 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.600 does in northern British Columbia. It just doesn't look and 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.760 feel the same. It isn't it isn't. Uh, the picture 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:36.560 isn't painted with the same strokes. And so we have 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:39.040 all these different perspectives that we're trying to apply to 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.679