1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:06,199 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to episode number sixteen of The Hunting Collective. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: I've been O'Brien today we are joined by Adam Jankie. 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: I wonder if it's Yankee J and K. You never 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: know how guys pronounced their last name. Really anyway, Adam 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: is a badass. He's the editor of The Journal and 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: Mountain Hunting and he is also the host of the 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Beyond to Kill podcast on that platform, and he's doing 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: a lot of different things in the media world today. 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: Adam is a relative newcomer to the hunting space in 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: terms of media and quit his his nine to five 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: to jump into this world, and and his brand and 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: what he represents has done great job in a short 13 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: period of time and represented hunting, represented mountain hunting, and 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: get people excited about the brand that they've created. So moreover, 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: Adam is our resident Canadian, as we'll call him. He's 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: from British Columbia, and he's got a lot to say 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: about the Grizzly Bear Band and a lot to say 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: about hunting politics up north, and really just is a 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: great guy to talk to. He's direct, he's frank who 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: really understands how to work through a conversation and keep 21 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: it on pointing, on tone, and I really appreciate talking 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: to him, and I like the guy. I think he's 23 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: got a refreshing take on everything and everything seems measured 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: appropriately so and he has a lot of awesome stuff 25 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: to say. So that's the episode number sixteen of The 26 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: Hunting Collective Coming at You with Adam Jenking. All right, Adam, 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: how's it going, man, I'm great, Ben. I really appreciate 28 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: you having me on. No problem, no problem, it's a 29 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: pleasure to um. I'm trying to think through if you're 30 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: the first Canadian ever to join the Hunting Collective, I'm not. 31 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think well, not Shane Mahoney beat you. 32 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: Yeah he did. Although if I if I only play 33 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: second fiddle of Shane Mahoney in and you know, over 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: the course of my life, I'm I think I'm doing 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: all right. Yeah, if you're chasing Shane Mahoney and you 36 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: and you're coming in second, you're doing all right. You're 37 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: gonna be You gotta get a new accent, maybe start 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: dressing a little different, but you'll be fine. Yeah, I'll 39 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: think that silver medal any day. And frankly, if if 40 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: I if I at his um at his age, and 41 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: I don't mean that in a disrespect respectful manner, but 42 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: if I'm sporting the hair and beard that he is 43 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: by and by that point in my life, I'm I'm 44 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: definitely in good company. Oh flowing a flowing main silver 45 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: main from our boys. Shane respect him a lot too. 46 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: And and UM, it's a good starting point to start 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: with with Shane and what he does because UM conservation 48 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: is something that's been on my mind a lot lately, 49 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: just just because I was going back through and listen 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: it's the prior podcast and trying just to glean what 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: I had learned from from conservation and what I learned 52 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: from the people we've interviewed. And UM, I I find 53 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: that the British Columbia Grizzly Bear hunting band came up 54 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: very frequently as as kind of the north star of 55 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: what what we don't want to occur in the US 56 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: and elsewhere when it comes to UM hunting bands or 57 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: or hunting bands just based on what we'd call trophy hunting. 58 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: So do you have you know, being uh, our resident Canadian, 59 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: you have opinions and experience in that field. I know 60 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: that you do. Yeah, man, if you know it's it's 61 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: it's finally become one of those things that UM, I'm 62 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: probably a little sick of talking about. And and some 63 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: of the background on that bend is as much as 64 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: I hate to put it this way, UM, I wrote 65 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: a piece UM on our on the Drill Amountain Hunting platform, 66 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: our site or digital magazine to depending on how you 67 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: want to reference it, oh, probably three years ago, UM 68 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: outlining the fact that we were, um, we were at 69 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: significant risk UM as it related to the Grizzly grizzly 70 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: bear hunt and losing the grizzly bear hunt because of UM. 71 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: The way that hunt is UM, well, I don't even 72 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: know how to put it. But the way it's it's 73 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: it's message to in particular the non hunting public. I mean, 74 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: I think you and I would probably agree that we'll 75 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: probably never get um, you know, the anti hunters to 76 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: see eye to eye with us. And that's not you know, 77 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: meant to sound disrespect disrespectful over the anti hunting community, 78 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: but you know, they have their beliefs and we have ours, UM. 79 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: But that that huge swath under the bell curve of 80 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: the non hunting public is what we're what we're kind 81 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: of fighting for right and and those that were uh 82 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: and still are very much opposed to the grizzly bear hunt. 83 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: Um uh, we're we're mounting a very concerted and sophisticated 84 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: effort to steer public opinion in a way that um, 85 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: at least in part um led to this decision of 86 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: of an outright ban on all grizzy bear hunting in BC. Yeah. Now, 87 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: and that's I mean, it just becomes the first and 88 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: most not first, but the most prominent example um of 89 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: legislation changing based on public opinion in this way, and then, 90 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: as you said, a a organized effort to push that 91 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: legislation um and change those things based on you know, 92 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: the term trophy hunting and and you know, just the 93 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: particular motivation of hunting that one species in that in 94 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: that singular place. So, um, it just seems to me 95 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: from Vancouver over to Quesnel and up into the further 96 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: reaches of British Columbia that that there just is uh, 97 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: one set of opinions in the urban and suburban areas 98 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: and another set of the opinions in the rural areas, 99 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: and that that really does compared nicely to a lot 100 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: of the conversation we're having in the States, and it 101 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: doesn't compare nicely, but it is parallel. So is that 102 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: is that something that you've you obviously identified early on 103 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: and you continue to see as a problem going forward 104 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: for British Columbia. Yeah. And I would like to clarify 105 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: when I say, you know, I wrote about this, you 106 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: know whatever, it was too three years ago. I don't 107 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: want to you know, try to sound like some sort 108 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: of a sage. It was just um. At the time, 109 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: I was living in Vancouver and I was interacting with 110 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people from all walks of life and um, 111 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: and you know, if I've hunted for forever, um, and 112 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: so you know, these sort of things would come up 113 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: and I would see, you know, how it was covered 114 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: in in in the in the main like newspapers, traditional 115 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: media wise, how it even got covered on you know, 116 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: local or regional TV news. Um. And so I mean 117 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: there are many, many, many people in BC who have 118 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: been involved in this debate and and you know, let's 119 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: call it fight for decades, right, and this has been 120 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: a hot topic in BC for a very very long time. 121 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: I think say, um, Um, Shane, excuse me, um even 122 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: alluded to the fact that it was you know, not 123 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: a new discussion. It just came to a head, UM, 124 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: you know, just late last year. And there's no question 125 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: that UM the decision that was made. And there's there's 126 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: a couple of things that should be clarified there right 127 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: because I know, UM a lot of people when I 128 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: when I when it happened, I heard a lot of 129 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: other podcasters or or people speak to speak to this 130 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: issue and say that, UM, you know, nent of BC, 131 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: UM of the populace of BC was it was against 132 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: this so called trophy on. This gisby trophy on. And 133 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: if you actually dig into some of the polls and 134 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: some of the um UM the some of the methods 135 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: that were used to to seek out public opinion and 136 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: professional and UM you know, to to an extent impartial opinion, 137 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: the numbers don't really add up. So so what did 138 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: happen was a there was a a two pronged UM 139 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: A two pronged effort between the variety of NGOs UM 140 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: that our out notte UM anti hunting organizations in particular 141 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: when it comes to to large carnivores um and then 142 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: the new UM party that came into government to UM 143 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: to just simply push this decision through the bulk of 144 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: their UM support base will be undoubtedly in urban environments 145 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: in particular Vancouver and Victoria. UM, and they'll have supporters 146 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: you know, across the province. But if you go outside 147 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: of the what's called the Lower Mainland, which is effectively 148 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: the Greater Vancouver area or Victoria, you are going to 149 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: get very very different opinions from people on UM. You know, 150 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: the viability, sustainability and and support of of the Grizzly hunt. 151 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, Ben UM, 152 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, the hunting community here in BC was, without question, 153 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: cap with your pants down right. We had no UM 154 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: organizing body too to you know, push back against some 155 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: of these these very sophisticated pr and social media campaigns. UM. 156 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: There was an immense amount of infighting because of the 157 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: whole resident versus nonresident issue that is that is ever 158 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: present in BC. And and just to add clarity to that, 159 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that live and hunting BC 160 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: that could care less how a legislative change impacts you know, 161 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: a as they would call them, foreign trophy hunter without 162 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: you know, realizing that it's a you know, these sort 163 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: of things impact all of us. And so I mean 164 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: we were we were disorganized, we were unsophisticated, and how 165 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: we dealt with this issue UM and UM and the 166 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: the decision came down right. And what's interesting as well 167 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: about the Grizzly bear band is, you know, this is 168 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: one of the most UM regulated and studied hunts on 169 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: the planet, without a shadow of a doubt, UM. And 170 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: so we had, you know, no shortage of statistics and 171 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: data to support the fact that it was absolutely positively sustainable. UM. 172 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: There was no negative impact on the population. If anything. 173 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: Many would argue that the population had improved UM over 174 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: the course of UM of hunting being allowed, because it 175 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: had been banned previously, going years back, and don't remember 176 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: exactly what year, UM. But we had no shortage of 177 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: data and this you know, I've talked about this before, 178 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: right as um As hunters were were quick to speak 179 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: a certain language. Let's let's loosely call that the conservation language, 180 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: which is factual, and it's good stuff and it's great, 181 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's great information and it's important information. But 182 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: it just didn't fall on ears that we're listening. Yeah, 183 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: I mean I think you I think both sides, particularly 184 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: in this side, that the hunting side, which is on 185 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:59,359 Speaker 1: the defensive, is unable to see the nuance in the opposition. 186 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: And there is this, there is this easy and and 187 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: and you and I have talked about this, this lazy 188 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: falling back on conservation and that term and falling back 189 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: on um everything that goes with that. And I think 190 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: when an argument like this comes up and the opposition 191 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: is organized and looking for some nuanced thinking, that doesn't 192 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: just pair it out the party lines, the hunting party 193 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: lines like, hey, conservation, is this carrying capacity? Population control? 194 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: Even the specifics of the nature of grizzly bears and 195 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: and how they interact with other bears and how they 196 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: interact with humans and why population control is important. I 197 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: think all those things, while important ideas, aren't necessarily new ideas. Uh. 198 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: And I think when you face a new and more 199 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: organized opposition, which you would probably agree that this is 200 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: and UH wasn't, is that you have to then come 201 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: up with better ways to get your points across, and 202 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: more nuanced ways, in this case get your point across 203 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: that I think speak a little bit more to the 204 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: to your audience, which in this case is Vancouver and 205 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: Victorian and the Lower Mainland, as you mentioned, so right, UM, 206 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: and I guess I don't want to belabor this obviously 207 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: because everybody kind of knows the situation. But is there 208 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: something in the future now that you know the hunting 209 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: community and BC has been called other pants down, something 210 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: in the future that you see as a solution or 211 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: something that has been enacted or ideated at this point 212 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: that you you think might prevent this in the future 213 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: or be able to reverse decision like this. Well, I 214 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: mean there there are many to believe that um, this 215 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: this new government that came into power, this new party, 216 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: I should say, they came into power. UM won't UM 217 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: won't get reelected, so you know whatever, it will be 218 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: three and a half years. Now, Let's say down the 219 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: road that if the UM the government that was in 220 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: power prior to this, this this new party and and 221 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: this decision amongst many others that are a little bit um, 222 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: if you let's say the one UM the previous from 223 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: our party comes into power, that it will get reversed. Now, 224 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: I've also spoken with a ton of people that say, 225 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, hold on, it's um. It's it's all well 226 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: and good to think that, and to think that we'll 227 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: get support from from that party. But it's a pretty 228 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: hard PR pill to swallow, to say, hey, you know, 229 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: there was all this stuff about these beautiful animals that 230 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, everyone was supposedly against lopping the heads off of. 231 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: Well we're gonna let people lop heads off them again, right, 232 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: And I'm putting those in in very you know, extreme terms, 233 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: but those are the sort of that's the sort of 234 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: stuff that was put out there, right and in these 235 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: in these PR campaigns from the NGOs, the anti hunt 236 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: NGOs was they used a lot of very graphic, very 237 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: false and in most cases in fact, but some very 238 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: graphic and um uh, let's say emotional um type of 239 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: examples of what it meant to be a grizzly bear 240 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: or so called trophy hunter. Um So it's a you know, 241 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: who knows, right, I mean that that's a that's a 242 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: tough hill to climb if you're a new party coming 243 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: into power and are supposed to sport the hunting and 244 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: fishing community and particular the hunting community and turn this 245 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: decision around. Um So, I don't know, I don't know 246 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: where that will where that will land as far as 247 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: the the know, the specific hunting community getting more organized, 248 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: things are being put into action. But um, this has 249 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: absolutely exposed um just how um factional the hunting community 250 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: is in BC. UM. As I, as I mentioned just 251 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: a few minutes ago. You have the resident hunters, you 252 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: have the guide outfitters. You have people that profess to 253 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: be meat hunters. You have people that that you know 254 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: loved grizzly bear hunt. You have people that are resident 255 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: hunters that are also guide outfitters, UM. And you have 256 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: some of the organizing bodies that are involved here that 257 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: should have you know, kind of had our backs, that 258 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: are that are playing politics in you know, behind closed doors. 259 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: So I I really don't know. I mean that was 260 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: one of the first things I did after the initial decision, 261 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: which is actually just a ban on keeping um hide 262 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: head and claws. You can still hunt grizzy bears, you 263 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: just had to take the meat to leave everything else behind. 264 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: So even when that went down, one of the first 265 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: things I did was I started calling people that I 266 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: know we're involved in certain organizations and said, you know, 267 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: what's what's the plan here, like what's going on? And 268 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: everyone just sort of, you know, um figurative sense just 269 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: looked around the room to see who else had the 270 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: answer right, and and and that was then and things 271 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: that have been put into motion. Um, but it won't happen, 272 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: happen quickly, so um so time will time will tell. Yeah, 273 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: that's interesting to me, and there's a bunch of things 274 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: wrapped up in that to me that are you know, 275 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: important overall. But it seems in general that we've always 276 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: had this. When you say anti hunting it it strikes 277 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: me as one side, the anti hunting side, is always 278 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: argue on emotion, right and and general sensationalism. Then you 279 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: have the hunting side in this case, or you know, 280 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: really sometimes in America, the pro inside who's always trying 281 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: to argue pragmatism and not always factual information, but at 282 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: least the air of factual information. And those two sides 283 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: continue to go head to head, and that that that 284 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: emotional side can't reason with pragmatism and facts and common sense, 285 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: and the pragmatism side can't see the emotional connection to 286 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: the animal. And Steve Ronella puts it very very bluntly, 287 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: that an animal rights activist is good at taking care 288 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: of one animal, and that the hunter is good at 289 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: taking care of the entire population, and so I've spoken 290 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: to a lot of people. I don't know. This is 291 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: one I'd love to get your opinion on. I spoken 292 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: to a lot of people about how do we fix 293 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: that chasm, because it is a large chasm between somebody 294 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: who cares emotionally about that single being UM or somebody 295 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: who cares about Grizzly bears as a population and in 296 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: more of a figurative sense. Do you have any any 297 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: thoughts on that Having gone through this issue and having 298 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: being you know, kind of not in the middle, but 299 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: a large part of an issue like this where those 300 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: two ideas are at the four Yeah, I mean, so 301 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: there's UM. I think there's there's two at least potential 302 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: solutions here. One that UM I yea. In the discussions 303 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: I was having after both you know, let's call them UM, 304 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: segments of the whole Grizzly fiasco occurred UM that UM. 305 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: Just a lot of us came to agree on right. 306 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: A lot of people that were involved either in some 307 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: of the politics or people they're involved with organizations that 308 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: are trying to you know, sort of get the shift, 309 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: get the ship excuse me, on on on course. UM. 310 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: And and so there's there's that solution, and there's one 311 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: that's come to me a little bit more recently. And 312 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: so they are they're effectively external and internal UM solutions. 313 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: I think on the external side, you know, we as hunters, 314 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: as as you and I have said, UM, are very 315 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: quick to you know, pull out, pull the you know, 316 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: sort of conservation gun out of the holster, right. UM, 317 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: use all the data and the science that we either 318 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: find for ourselves or get spoon fed by all the 319 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: organizations out there that that are part of the hunting 320 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: community and are doing great work. I don't want to 321 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: sound like I'm diminishing the work some of these legacy 322 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: or organizations have done. UM. But we you know, that 323 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: was kind of the only AMMO we had, right And 324 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: and then when we get an emotional UM push back 325 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: from in particularly anti hunters, and then then that trickles 326 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: into the non hunting public, UM, we were very quick 327 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: to say, well, they're just being irrational and emotional, right 328 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: And and at the end of the day, UM, most 329 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: hunters love to hunt, and they do so for more 330 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: emotional reasons than they do rational reasons. And if you're 331 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: telling other people otherwise, you're telling yourself otherwise. I would 332 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: challenge that, um, um, that notion. Right. It's you know, 333 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: I hunt because I love to hunt and everything that 334 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: comes with it. And are there good reasons to do it? Yes? 335 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: Are there's scientific reasons to do it? Yes? Are their 336 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: management reasons to do it? Yes? Are there familial reasons 337 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: to do it? I eat, put you know, clean protein 338 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: in my freezer on my table. Sure. Um, But I 339 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: just love to hunt, I really do. And and so 340 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: we weren't acknowledging our own emotional connection to these issues 341 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: and and then using that, um, you know, those emotions 342 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: to communicate and connect with people on a real personal level. Right. 343 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: We can't sit here and say we need to be 344 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: rational when you know, it's not human nature to be 345 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: rational all the time, if not most of the time. Right. 346 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: And so I do think in terms of how we 347 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: communicate with in particularly the non hunting public, Um, we 348 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: just need to recognize that, you know, how we were 349 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: communicating with them, how we were and are to a 350 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: certain extent, um is falling on deaf years, you know, 351 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: Shane says himself, and I'll probably butcher it. But if 352 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: we you know, speak speak, what is it if if 353 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: for too long we speak only to ourselves, will will 354 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: be the only ones left listening, right and and I 355 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: think that's that's a big part of what happened here. 356 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: So externally, I think we need to, um, you know, 357 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: engage with the non hunting public. And I want to 358 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 1: be clear when I say that that that doesn't mean 359 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: we need to be conciliatory or you know, walk around 360 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: with our hands out saying please, sir, can I have 361 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 1: some more? We need to you know, stand stand up 362 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: for what we believe in, but make real connections with people, 363 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: whether that's over food or in um, you know, town 364 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: hall settings or dinner parties or whatever the case may be. Like, 365 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: just engage with people, um, and and share some of 366 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: the emotional reasons you do it, right, um, and don't 367 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: just spew out um. But what I'm sure comes across 368 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: as sort of um, defensive justifications for for what we do. UM. 369 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: So that would be one and then two is on 370 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: the internal side of things. And this is linked to 371 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: that that thing I sent you earlier today is you know, 372 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: if we continue to segregate our own community by by 373 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: you know, labels like I hunt for meat. Well, sorry, 374 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: let me back that up. If we continue to segregate 375 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: our community based on labels UM that we um you know, 376 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: identify with in terms of our reasons for hunting. I 377 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: hunt for meat, I hunt for trophy, hunt for it inches, 378 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: I hunt for maturity, I hunt for management, hunt for conservation. 379 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: I think we are are going to find ourselves in 380 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: a bad spot because we are doing the work of 381 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: the anti hunters by creating those divisions within our own community. 382 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: I'm a bow hunter, therefore I must not like the 383 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: long range people. UM, A trad bow hunter. Therefore, I 384 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: think anyone that takes a sixty yard shot with a 385 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: compound is um, you know, is the Antichrist, right, and 386 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: so you know those sort of things. I think we 387 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: need to sort out our own, our own house in 388 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: order as much as we need to think as as 389 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: hard about how to communicate with the non hunting public. Yeah. No, 390 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: I can agree with that wholeheartedly. And I think it's 391 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: just it's it's we're unlucky in this situation. Like we 392 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: not unlucky, but we have fallen into a passion something 393 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: we care a lot about that is complex and is regional, 394 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: and and it it doesn't always look the same. Hunting 395 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: doesn't look the same on the East Coast as it 396 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: does in the East coast of the States, as it 397 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: does in northern British Columbia. It just doesn't look and 398 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: feel the same. It isn't it isn't. Uh, the picture 399 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: isn't painted with the same strokes. And so we have 400 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: all these different perspectives that we're trying to apply to 401 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: one ethic, which which is seems the right way and 402 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: in my mind it kind of is the right things do. 403 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: But unfortunately we we've had this very complex and in 404 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: and ever changing idea of what hunting is in the 405 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: modern times. Um, so we're stuck arguing those points, arguing 406 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: the finer points of of what it is instead of 407 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: really trying to, like you, like you said, connect with 408 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: people that don't do it, Like, how do I connect 409 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: with you? What is the one thing that we share 410 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: in common, which is which is most often caring about 411 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: the animal and valuing the animal's life, which is is 412 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: usually the one commonality in this in this situation, and 413 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: trying to bridge a gap based on that, as opposed 414 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: to trying to to to make definitions out of something 415 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: that seemingly, you know, it may not be able to 416 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: be defined. Um. Just because it is so different and 417 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: so nuanced and and and changing all the time. Um 418 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: and so yeah, we're stuck with this complex message. This 419 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: is very complex argument we have amongst ourselves even and 420 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: the other side is is bringing forth something that isn't 421 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: that complex. It's basically, we love animals, and all animals 422 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: are sentient beings, and all animals deserve life. You don't 423 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: have the option to take it from them and then 424 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: brag about it, um for for for anything. And so 425 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 1: I think at the end of the day, we just 426 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: need to first first identify the complexity and and what 427 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: we're trying to trying to do in the modern world, 428 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: and the simplicity of of the counter argument. And that's 429 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: a lot of times, um how that kind of argument 430 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: has strength because it's sensational and it's simple, it's easy 431 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: for people to understand. Um And And so I think 432 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: our messaging just needs to be consistent and and we 433 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: need to find a way to trump at that messaging 434 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: and get it out as as much as we can. 435 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: So I maybe that's a depressing kind of opinion to 436 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: have on the damn thing, but it but it's true. 437 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: I mean, we just have we have put by being 438 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: hunters in the modern society, we kind of put ourselves 439 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: behind the eight ball because it's a complex thing in 440 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: a world that doesn't really enjoy complexity. They want everything 441 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: to be pretty simple. So I think BC is just 442 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: one of those places that was kind of the front 443 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: lines of this because of that grizzly bear being a 444 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: charismatic megafauna that we love to uh personify and we 445 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,439 Speaker 1: love to put on a pedestal for some for some reason. 446 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: But enough of that, enough of that business. We can 447 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: talk about that all day. Um, you're in the media world. 448 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: You're the editor the journal Mountain Hunting, which to me 449 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: is an interesting take on print publications. Um, and I 450 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: at being a former print editor myself. I really enjoy 451 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: the quality of the paper and the paper and the 452 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: white space and all the real geeky editor type things 453 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: that I I notice when I look at the book. 454 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: But I also really enjoy and I think why it's 455 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: your voice is important is because the way the book 456 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: has written and presented is very much with an eye 457 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: towards how hunters are seen and how how you can 458 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: shape that image and and bring that image into a 459 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: better light. So that's I always appreciate those efforts, and 460 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate that book. But but what's it like being 461 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: an editor at work in every single day to put 462 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: together a product that's uh, has those goals and it 463 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: can be judged for its creativity. Oh yeah, I mean 464 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: I mean by no means what I ever want to sound, um, 465 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: well like like I've got a hard go here. But 466 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 1: I mean I I'm I'm working in the hunting business, 467 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: which you know for a lot of people, UM that 468 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: that's a dream, right, and so you know, for the 469 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: most part, it's a ton of fun. I mean, there's 470 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: there's a lot of um nuances as as you pointed 471 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: out to this world and the you know, our our 472 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: whole mantra from from inception. So the journal Mountain Hunting 473 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: UM started as a as a digital magazine, as we 474 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: like to think of it. I mean, it was a 475 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: website of course, but structured very much as a digital magazine. 476 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: What you were just referencing is our print edition, which 477 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: we released our first last year. We have a new 478 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: one coming out very soon, if not by the time 479 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: this goes to air. And you know, in both those 480 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: channels let's call them, it was um we were always 481 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: sort of focused on trying to yeah, like like you said, 482 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, but present an image of of hunting or 483 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: frankly uncover um one of the hidden images of hunting 484 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: that just wasn't necessarily part of um a common part 485 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: of the media mix. UM, so that people could see that, 486 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,719 Speaker 1: you know, there is more to hunting than what they 487 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: might see on a on a certain TV show, right, 488 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: or on a YouTube video or anything along those lines, right. 489 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: And so we always um wanted to go deep, right. 490 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: So I mean, geez, one of the stories in that 491 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: pre addition you've seen was nine thousand words, right, And 492 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: for some people maybe that makes their eyes glaze over, 493 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: but that's what the story took to tell, right. And 494 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: so we wanted to um not get all flowery and 495 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: philosophic on on all subjects, but really create a form 496 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: um where we can discuss the complexity, right, Like you said, 497 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 1: I mean complexity is is that that the root of 498 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: this this whole thing we call hunting, and it's also 499 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: at the root of some of the problems we're facing 500 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: in in in the media world. UM. And so that 501 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: that was a big part of what I wanted to 502 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: do and when I started it. UM four years ago, 503 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of content out there that that 504 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: kind of um suited my needs. Right, there wasn't the 505 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: kind of stuff I wanted to consume. Um. And that's 506 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: not to say there wasn't a lot of good stuff 507 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: out there is, just I had to piece it together 508 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: from you know, all sorts of different publications or forums 509 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: or brand blogs or whatever the case may be. Right, 510 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: that's changed obviously, there's a lot of great stuff out 511 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: there nowadays. And you know, the the game has been 512 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: elevated in terms of photography or film or or the 513 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: print game. But um, it's a it's a it's a 514 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: very fun job. It's a very interesting job. You know, 515 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: I was in I was in healthcare. Before I made 516 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: the the leap to this this field, I knew nothing 517 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,719 Speaker 1: about media, um and UM. The only connection I had 518 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: to hunting was that I love to do it and 519 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: grew up doing it. UM. And so you know, every 520 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: day is kind of figuring it out as as we go, 521 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: UM and UM and making sure that you know, when 522 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: where possible, and if possible, everything we put out there 523 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: is is you know, at least has the potential to 524 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: make a person look at it and go oh this 525 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: is about hunting. That's interesting. I've never seen it presented 526 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: this way, right, or I rarely see it presented it 527 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: presented this way. Yeah, No, that's that's that's a great point. 528 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: And I mean, coming from traditional people have to just 529 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: forgive me being a print journalist in my in my 530 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: past lives. They're just gonna have to listen to some 531 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: of the print journal journalistic industry insider talk that I'm 532 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: about to have. So just deal with it. Uh. But 533 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: you know the you know, the traditional books Outdoor Life, 534 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: Field and Stream, Peterson Signing, North American, White Tail. We 535 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: can go down and down that list of traditional print 536 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: titles that have been around a long time in the 537 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: hunting industry and contributed a ton to our culture and 538 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: contributed a ton of knowledge to the hunting public out there. Um, 539 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: they've come come upon hard times. The there's less pages, 540 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: there's more advertising. Um, there's less honesty in these publications. 541 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: I mean I was an editor of one of them. 542 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: I can tell you that it is. Um it's hard 543 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: to both sell ads and have honest editorial at the 544 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: same time. Um, when those lines get blurred, it's just 545 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: a really tough tough thing. And I think as the 546 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: digital world pushes a more democratic exchange of information, it's 547 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: tough UM for these print titles who are really really 548 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: it's a cheap subscription price and they're really counting on 549 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: advertising to pay the pay the bills. And that means 550 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: inherently that the advertiser has a lot of influence on 551 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: what's going on UM, and a lot of those advertisers 552 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: certainly know that and use it as a benefit. Is 553 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: there a way you feel like the journal can can 554 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: buck some of those trends? And it's just overall, are 555 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: you are you hopeful for for the for the medium 556 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: and the messaging and all that kind of stuff, And 557 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: that's a that's probably deep question, but yeah, yeah, yeah, 558 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: So I mean I think it's possible to buck the 559 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: trend UM. But I mean, you know, we we've put 560 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: out one print edition and you know, when we go 561 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: live with this next one, which has been a long 562 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,239 Speaker 1: time coming. For anyone that is a subscriber UM or 563 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: or as a customer, I should say, UM that you 564 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: were were going to a quarterly schedule UM as of 565 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: this year. We we started with a plan to be biennual, 566 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: but we're gonna go quarterly Um. So I say that 567 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: only because you know, I'm not sitting here with twenty 568 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: years of experience in the print game, or one of 569 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: them five years of experience in the print game. Right 570 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: that said, Um, you know, in our initial print edition 571 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: we had twenty pages of ad of ads and what 572 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: would amount to over a hundred and fifty pages of content. Um. 573 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: And so I think that the simplest and blunt way 574 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: to put it is somebody has to pay, right. Um. 575 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: So that's either going to be the advertisers like you're 576 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: alluding to with with the traditional sort of print model, 577 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: or it's the reader, right Um. And and that was 578 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: the path we took. We have minimal ads, but we 579 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: charge for one issue about what it costs for a 580 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: subscription to most of those legacy magat magazines. Right. And 581 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: and so if people want um honest editorial, UM, in 582 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: depth content, UM, unique content, right, stuff they haven't seen 583 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: before and can't find for free somewhere else, um, which 584 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: is a whole other issue. Um, then I think people 585 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: just need to to get to the get to the 586 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 1: point where they're willing to pay for it. Right. Um. 587 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: You know we're we're sitting on a free podcast, right 588 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: now for at least free for people to listen to, 589 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: not free to produce. You and I both know that, um. 590 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: And and so with the digital side being obviously so 591 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: important today in in in the media game, UM, people 592 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,239 Speaker 1: do expect a lot of things for free. And I 593 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: get that. You know, there's certain things I expect for free. 594 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: But UM, you know I still spend ten to thirty 595 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: dollars on a book if I if I deem it worthwhile, 596 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: right and um, and so I think with with the 597 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: print game, I don't think print is dead. Um. I 598 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: think just the model needs to be adjusted. And one 599 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: of the more common things we here ben that's really interesting. 600 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: And then I mean this is you know quite a 601 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: number of um of you know responses from customers or 602 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 1: you know, emails, etcetera from customers is um, the people 603 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: welcome a break from the digital world. Right if they 604 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: work at a desk, Um, they're at a computer all day, 605 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: They're on their phone more than they should be. We 606 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: all are, right. And so when you get something that's 607 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: of quality in your hands, that is is visually enticing 608 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: and has quality content and honest editorial. Um. You know 609 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: a lot of people have emailed us saying like it's 610 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: just so nice to put all that stuff down, turn 611 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 1: off the monitor and actually sit down and read something again. Um. 612 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 1: And of course it has to have quality to to 613 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: support that. But I do think people still like print. Um. 614 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: And I don't know if you ever heard the term 615 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: digital fatigue, but I think that's a real thing. Um. 616 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: And I think we just we in the media business 617 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: just need to tweak our approach to how we how 618 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: we essentially package print content. Yeah. No, that's a great point. 619 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: I've said that a lot about even hunting hate always 620 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: go back to like the overall the broad concept of hunting. 621 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: But you know, urbanization has been one of the things 622 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: that has pushed hunting number is down, puts hunting participation down. 623 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: And my estimation here lately, you see a lot of 624 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: people that are bucking that urbanization trend and looking for 625 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: places to looking for ways to get out of those 626 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: urban environments and go experience something a little bit different. 627 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: And if you put hunting in there and their path, 628 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: they'll accept it every time, as long as you put 629 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: it in their path with the right framing. Um. Much 630 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: same with much the same with this with print, print journalism, 631 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: and uh, the print publications like yours. If you put 632 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: it in the path of a uh, a media hound, 633 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: someone who loves to read, and they're just tired of 634 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: poking around Twitter and getting misdirected and and having a 635 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: lot of opinions thrown at them, it's nice to turn 636 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,879 Speaker 1: that off and just read it. You know, like I said, 637 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: nine thousand world article is is ridiculously long. I used 638 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 1: to you know, they used to say eight hundred words 639 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: is about everybody's attention span. And you and I have 640 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: had this conversation before. I said their attention span. Um. 641 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: While I can there that to be important, I really 642 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 1: just want to get the message out the best way 643 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: that I can. And if it's nine thousand words instead 644 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: of eight hundred, then that's what I'm gonna do. And 645 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 1: I'll trust that people appreciate that, and if I guess, 646 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: we'll go out of business if they don't. Um, Because 647 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: you really got to be honest to the content. And 648 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: I feel like that's what the journal Amount of Hunting 649 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: really does and that's why I'm reading it that you 650 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: get that this is just an honest accounting of of 651 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: these stories and the places and the people at which 652 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: I think is is how how films you know, how 653 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: you know a company I work for, YETI how their 654 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: films have become popular because they focus on story first 655 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: and they're not um driven by anything else but that 656 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,399 Speaker 1: and that for in a in a in a world 657 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,359 Speaker 1: where everybody is being pandered too, it's a straight up 658 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: honest account or honest story that is important to the 659 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: overall culture. Seems like maybe it's a little bit of 660 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: an outlier, which is sad to say, but um, I hope, 661 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: I hope people are increasingly willing to pay the premium 662 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: for a publication like yours, but also willing to pay 663 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: premiums for podcasts as well. Um, because as a podcaster, 664 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 1: you have a podcast yourself beyond the kill. UM. I 665 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: think we probably both feel pressure to collect advertisers to 666 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: make a profit. But every time you kind of inch 667 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: to the next advertiser and you get to give a 668 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 1: little bit of yourself with each one of them, whether 669 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: you like it or not. Um, And that's a tough 670 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: position to be in. So I would hope that just 671 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: is a pure honest um storyteller and a communicator that 672 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: you could find that you know, find a balance if 673 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: you struck any balances. That you found to be beneficial. 674 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 1: Oh that's a good question. It's funny. I gotta ask 675 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: this um earlier today, or at least in a similar 676 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 1: sort of question. You know, I think UM we UM. 677 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: We from the get go UM focused on quality over quantity. 678 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: So that so that was multifaceted. That was in the 679 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: stuff we produced, right, the articles we put out there, 680 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: and then I'm not saying they're all perfect, and I'm 681 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: certainly not saying they're better than other stuff out there. 682 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: They're just um, they're they're just they're different right there 683 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: in depth. I mean, you'll we've we've had online stories 684 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,240 Speaker 1: that were you know, somebody's submitted to us with awesome 685 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: photos that were you know, seven thousand, eight thousand words 686 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: along right that we broke up into two parts. So 687 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, we always wanted to give the story a chance. 688 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: I guess they're like like, when you talk about an 689 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: eight hundred word attention span, will you know not many 690 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: of the books that are on my bookshelf for eight 691 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: hundred words, right, So I think if if the materials 692 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: put together UM in an engaging way, right at the 693 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: end of the day, do good work, right, you gotta 694 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: do good work people aren't going to read. I mean 695 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: that that's a bigger hit on intention span than than 696 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: the length. Right. UM. But you know, we we stayed 697 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: really committed and continue to stay really committed to to 698 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: that side of it. UM, not just putting things out 699 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: there to generate clicks or UM you know, volume of 700 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: traffic or stuff like that. Sure that's great, but UM 701 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: there's ways to as you know, UM, to manipulate that 702 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: side of the game, UM without there actually being a 703 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: lot of quality or substance to it. So so there's 704 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: that side of it. And the second part of it is, UM, 705 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: we no different than what the print edition and talking about, 706 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, basically asking our readers to pay. We kept 707 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: our advertising spots to a minimum. UM. This is online 708 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,879 Speaker 1: and in print and on the podcast for that matter 709 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,240 Speaker 1: as well. And UM in charge the premium four we 710 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: we basically said to an advertiser, UM, you know, we'd 711 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 1: love to work with you company x UM assuming there 712 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: was you know, UM, I hate to use you know, 713 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: whatever media douche terms like brand synergy, but you know 714 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: that there was there was alignment right between our brand 715 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 1: and their brand. UM, and UM, we would say we'd 716 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: like to work with you, you will be one of 717 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, six, or one of twenty or one of four, 718 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: depending on the channel we're talking about that's on this platform. 719 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: So because of that you know, very prominent and basically 720 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: impossible to miss position, we're gonna ask you to pay 721 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: a lot more than you otherwise would in the volume game. UM. 722 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,439 Speaker 1: So that ended up being something that that that worked 723 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: real well for us. That that the outset and continues 724 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 1: to work well to a point. UM. And uh, that's 725 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: not to suggest that there aren't you know, I can't 726 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: say conflicts, but there aren't people that are skeptical of 727 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: our relationships with an advertiser. Um. And simply that we're 728 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: talking about you know, a given brand or product because 729 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 1: we're paid to do so. UM. I would honestly say, 730 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: and I mean this, you know, as sincerely as as 731 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: I can as I possibly can that because we've we've 732 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: worked predominantly with a really limited group of as we 733 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: would call them, sponsors. And that's not me being sponsored, 734 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: that's you know, sponsors of of our content. UM. We've 735 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: been fortunate enough to work with brands that are really 736 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 1: damn easy to to to, you know, to represent and support, 737 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: right if they make damn good packs. It's hard to 738 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: you know not or it's not hard to to say 739 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,359 Speaker 1: these are damn good packs or if they make good 740 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: firearms or optics or whatever. Um, it's pretty easy to um, 741 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 1: you know, beastly just embed those in in in you know, 742 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: the platform of the channel, UM and be authentic about it. Yeah, no, 743 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: I'd agree. And that's that's you know, maybe there's the balance. UM. 744 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: I say maybe because you're working in a world and 745 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: we all are, everybody that creates media, working in a 746 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: world where people are rightfully suspicious of your motivations when 747 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: you start talking about consumer products. UM. And I ran 748 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: into this personally being uh on the Joe Rogan podcast, 749 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: and because I work at Yetti and every time we 750 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: mentioned Yetti, people just assume that maybe YETI paid for 751 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: this for paid for me to be on there, or 752 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: paid Joe to have me on UM And rightfully, so 753 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 1: they should should think in those terms. I mean that 754 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,399 Speaker 1: that is Uh, there's a lot of that going on. Uh. 755 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: There's a lot of submersive advertising, and there's a lot 756 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: of you know, Batman jumps out of the Batmobile and 757 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: gets into a BMW like he didn't need to get 758 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,839 Speaker 1: in that BMW's got a damn batmobile. Um, and so 759 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: there there's just that there's those things that that it 760 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: almost feels falsely submersive, like, oh, we trick them to drive, 761 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, Batman drives BMW. Everybody else should too. So um. 762 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 1: You know, as a consumer, I don't like to be duped. 763 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: I don't like to be uh. I don't like to 764 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,879 Speaker 1: need a product based on osmosis. I'd like to really 765 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: need it and really be informed about it. Especially in 766 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: the niche media world where you and I live spend 767 00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:00,280 Speaker 1: most of our time. So it's an interesting time opic 768 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: because when you're hunting, and especially when you're on the map, 769 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: when you're on a mountain, things to get dangerous and 770 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: you need to rely on the products that you're using 771 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: and they you you put a lot of money in 772 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: time and these efforts. And if if there's a a 773 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: journalistic um platform out there, or at least you know, 774 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: faintly journalistic platform that's telling you you should use something 775 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: based on being paid to tell you that, that really 776 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: devalues your time with the goddamn mountain, and um, that 777 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: equation starts to get really gross. It starts to get uh, 778 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: starts to feel cheap, and it starts to just devalue 779 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 1: all media that isn't you know, social or UM in 780 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: a digital platform. So I'm glad, really why I want 781 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:49,799 Speaker 1: to just bring this up and talk through some of 782 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: this with this, just because it almost feels like what 783 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: you're doing fights back against um our better nature to 784 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: accept a lot of money too, to not lie but 785 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: misrepresent things. Yeah. Well, I mean that's that's the very 786 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,479 Speaker 1: gracious of you to say, Ben. I mean, it means 787 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,919 Speaker 1: a lot coming from you that UM you you see 788 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: it that way. And you know, if I go back 789 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: to when we started the journal UM in August, you know, 790 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: it was it was the proverbial scratching my own itch, right, 791 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: So like I would go to a hunting form or 792 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: a website or wherever right to look for information or 793 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: to read stories or just you know bs, and I'd 794 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,839 Speaker 1: just be like inundated with you know, good old ad tech, 795 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, things popping up and flashing and trying to 796 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: distract me from why I was there. And I just 797 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,879 Speaker 1: you know, I don't I don't know if we could 798 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: say intuitively, but I just thought, you know, there's got 799 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: to be a better way, like I don't click on 800 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,360 Speaker 1: those things, I don't read those things. They have zero 801 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: impact on me. How is this performing? Right? Um? And 802 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,839 Speaker 1: so you know, whether we call we're trying to do 803 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,279 Speaker 1: as as fighting back or just trying to offer an 804 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 1: alternate option, which certainly isn't for everyone. I mean, let's 805 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: be honest, there's there are brands that that need volume 806 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,760 Speaker 1: in one volume, right, and that's we're not the place 807 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: for that. UM. If UM, you want to have a 808 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:19,040 Speaker 1: hyper targeted, hyper engaged audience that is UM shrewd and 809 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: discerning um that maybe we are right um and and 810 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: and again we've been really lucky in that UM because 811 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 1: we only work with a small batch of brands that 812 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: it's not hard to fill the holes you should as 813 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,280 Speaker 1: an advertiser and can right kind of check the boxes 814 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: of the categories that are you know, the companies that 815 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: need to invest in their marketing and pr UM, we've 816 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,840 Speaker 1: been lucky and that those are usually best in class 817 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: or in the top three to five of the class. Right. 818 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 1: And so it's really easy to to be honest, um. 819 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: And and you're right though it is very also very 820 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: um justifiable for people to be skeptical and they should 821 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 1: be and I, in fact, I welcome that. I like 822 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: that right as if a person wanted to ask myself 823 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: for anyone that worked here with us about this or 824 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: a better product or something like that, They're going to 825 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: get a real answer, right because we I mean, not 826 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,080 Speaker 1: only are we happy to work with the companies we do, 827 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: but I guarantee you, as you will have seen in 828 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 1: that film I sent you, um, you better damn won't 829 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: believe we put it to the test. Yeah, exactly right. 830 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,359 Speaker 1: I mean that's the important part, is that you can 831 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,399 Speaker 1: stand by that product, whether that ad is in that 832 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 1: magazine or not. And I and I would hope and 833 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: I will do this And sometimes I wish we could 834 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 1: do this live or people could call in. But when 835 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: we post this podcast, I'm going to put up a 836 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,719 Speaker 1: poll or or fashion something where I can ask people like, 837 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:54,600 Speaker 1: are you willing to shuffle through a bunch of advertising 838 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 1: to get to the content you want? Or would you 839 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: rather pay money to see that content free of that advertising, 840 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: or at least in your case, with more appropriate advertising 841 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 1: that that feels natural and is more of a supportive 842 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: role as opposed to a submersive role. I want to 843 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: know that from people because I want to know. Um, 844 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,839 Speaker 1: in my career, there was a big time where pay 845 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 1: walls were just not tolerated. Like if you may, if 846 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 1: you were digital editor and your your magazine or your newspaper, 847 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: UH tried to make the audience pay for the content, 848 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 1: you would just nobody would do it. But I think 849 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: that's changing now. I think people are willing to pay 850 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,879 Speaker 1: for quality content and good in depth reporting and good 851 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: quality information that isn't touched by any outside sources. So 852 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: hopefully you know if you're listening to this and you 853 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: have an opinion right in, But if not, you know, 854 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: shoot me an email or shoot us a direct message 855 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 1: on on Instagram. But if if if not, check check 856 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: everything out, go back to UH our pages and look 857 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,759 Speaker 1: for some polls and let us know what you think. 858 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: Because I think that's that's really up to the folks 859 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: listening and reading to continue to to drive that conversation 860 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: and tell us what they want, um, what they need. 861 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 1: So UM, that's a great conversation what I could have forever. 862 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 1: But you mentioned UH what I believe is one of 863 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 1: the more hardcore hunts that I've ever seen, and I've 864 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: I think that when you return from this hunt, I 865 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,839 Speaker 1: said something like, Um, the the pain threshold just went 866 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 1: up a little bit. I try to find the most 867 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: suffrage I can on the mountain when I can. You 868 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: know places I've been, like New Zealand or Nepal, but 869 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,279 Speaker 1: I feel like you might have have have willingly went 870 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: into the most painful mountain hunting situation humanly possible. And 871 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to tell us all about that because 872 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 1: it's a doozy. I think that's the first time I've 873 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 1: heard it UM sort of reviewed in that manner Ben 874 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,240 Speaker 1: Ben and I like it. I like it a lot actually, 875 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: so UM the film we're talking about here UM, which 876 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,319 Speaker 1: we released very recently. I'm again I'm not sure when 877 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 1: this podcast to lay air, but it was released on 878 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 1: my thirty one. So it's been up UM as of 879 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 1: today for what five days, six days something like that. UM. 880 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,480 Speaker 1: And so it it's called Toying the Line and UM. 881 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: You know you can find that on YouTube where you 882 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,120 Speaker 1: can get you can get it on our on the 883 00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: Jernal Mountain Hunting website. UM. On our UM we got 884 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,920 Speaker 1: a watch section that has films and stuff on it. 885 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: And and so this was a a February just as 886 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,160 Speaker 1: pass February UM mountain goat hunt in northern BC, north 887 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,359 Speaker 1: coastal BC, just just shy the Alaska border. And UM 888 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,200 Speaker 1: six of us went into this this area. UM that 889 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,400 Speaker 1: we took a boat down the inlet and got dropped 890 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,799 Speaker 1: off you know, some nameless creek or at least one 891 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: that I won't name on here, UM and UM and 892 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: and just went after it. And and the simple you know, 893 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,880 Speaker 1: sort of premise of the film is, UM, this was 894 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,960 Speaker 1: a guide's hunt, not a guided hunt. A guide's hunt. 895 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,799 Speaker 1: So the main character, Nolan Osborne is his name. He, 896 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:07,319 Speaker 1: like most guides, UM spends you know, four or five 897 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: six months a year, depending on how the year plays out, 898 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,439 Speaker 1: helping other people fill their own tags. But as far 899 00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,400 Speaker 1: as um feeding his passion for mountain hunting, by the 900 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: time the season wraps up, there's not there's not really 901 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,279 Speaker 1: a whole lot left. And at least in BC. Yeah, 902 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you could go overseas and you know, plug 903 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,120 Speaker 1: yourself into some of the really lengthy seasons there for 904 00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, various mountain species. But in BC you're not 905 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: left with a whole lot when the guiding seasons all 906 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,560 Speaker 1: wrapped up. And so he decided to UM for better 907 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,960 Speaker 1: for worse. Go on, um this this very late season, 908 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,720 Speaker 1: literally the end of February. Um, goat hunt and into 909 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: some into some pretty nearly terrain, and you know it 910 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 1: was you know, minus twenty celsius most of the time. 911 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: Let me stop you real quick, minus twenty celsius. What's 912 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,040 Speaker 1: that fair knheight? And you say most of the time. 913 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,040 Speaker 1: I have no idea. I'm not sure what the fahrenet 914 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: can conversion. It's cold as ship. Everybody cold is hell, 915 00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,759 Speaker 1: and these guys you're talking about nine days and in 916 00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: sub freezing temperatures. And Nolan, if you watch the film, 917 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,960 Speaker 1: Nolan's a badass of badasses. But cramp on ice Axes 918 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,840 Speaker 1: just some um what I would say, general insanity, but 919 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,840 Speaker 1: the best kind. So continue, I was, I just people 920 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 1: just need to understand it's cold as hell here, and 921 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,319 Speaker 1: cold as hell normally means you're endanger at almost every 922 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:35,719 Speaker 1: point of the day because you need to keep your 923 00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: body tempts up, you need to not freeze and die. 924 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,880 Speaker 1: So let's let's start this. Let's continue the story on 925 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: that premise. Go at them. Yeah, so I mean, yeah, 926 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,759 Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was cold a f right 927 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 1: like um, but you know, as Canadians. That's not something 928 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 1: we're overly concerned with. I mean, like you said, it 929 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 1: just it just changes, Um, I say, just it changes everything, right, 930 00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,120 Speaker 1: I mean from your moisture management, so you know your 931 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,440 Speaker 1: a perrel system to your firearm or and you know 932 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,560 Speaker 1: if you were carrying a boat would obviously impact that. Um, 933 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 1: how you get water. I mean, we couldn't hike for 934 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: more than five minutes without our water bottles freezing shot 935 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: and so we couldn't drink. So there's I mean, we've 936 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,200 Speaker 1: got imagery of me, you know, holding the water bottle 937 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,279 Speaker 1: up to my mouth analogy and not metal so it 938 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 1: didn't get stuck to me. Um, but breathing like you know, 939 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,000 Speaker 1: the like really aggressive breaths around the rim of the analogen, 940 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:27,960 Speaker 1: and just so I had a chance of breaking the 941 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,359 Speaker 1: frozen seal to to get a gulp of water which 942 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,960 Speaker 1: was already half frozen after you know a little bit 943 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,560 Speaker 1: of hiking after I just filled it up, right, So, um, 944 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,160 Speaker 1: it was Yeah, it was tough, and it was tough 945 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,480 Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. The country this was in 946 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,560 Speaker 1: is is as steep and early as it gets. I mean, 947 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be a surprise this is This was a 948 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: late season mountain goat hunt. Mountain goats are not known 949 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,240 Speaker 1: for living in um, you know, gentle terrain, and so 950 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: it was it was a test of absolutely everything that 951 00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,720 Speaker 1: you could test as a hunter, right, your physicality or 952 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,000 Speaker 1: your mental fortitude, your gear, um and um. And it 953 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: was just an absolute phenomenal hunt. We had Dustin Rowe 954 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: was along with us. He actually had planned to come 955 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,799 Speaker 1: and hunt for himself. Um. This is actually kind of 956 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: funny with his bow. Um. And the first day I 957 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,640 Speaker 1: don't know if he caught this in the film or not, Ben, 958 00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,720 Speaker 1: but um, it took us five and a half hours 959 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:26,480 Speaker 1: to cover two kilometers and so we got we got 960 00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,000 Speaker 1: in there. We got set up at what we would 961 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: consider base camp, and woke up the next morning and 962 00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,719 Speaker 1: started glass and found found some some goats and in 963 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: particular some some billies that we were, you know, willing 964 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,280 Speaker 1: to put the effort into chase, but they were literally 965 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,239 Speaker 1: on the summits of these mountains. And Dustin came back 966 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,680 Speaker 1: in from glass ng looked at his bow hanging on 967 00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,799 Speaker 1: a broken off tree branch and just looked at us 968 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,719 Speaker 1: and said, yep, that's stay in there. And um and 969 00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 1: and the hunt shifted into just getting Nolan his goat, 970 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: which had been the plan for the film all along, 971 00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,520 Speaker 1: and so um it uh it was filled with adventure 972 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,640 Speaker 1: and comedy and danger and everything you're looking for, right, 973 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:06,920 Speaker 1: Like you said, you know when you go out there 974 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,319 Speaker 1: and you're looking for the ultimate suffrage. Um, we got 975 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,920 Speaker 1: that in spades. It took everything we had and and 976 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,160 Speaker 1: and then half again more to to pull this thing off. 977 00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,400 Speaker 1: And um, I don't think any one of us would 978 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,359 Speaker 1: would treade it for the world, despite there not being 979 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,040 Speaker 1: a single day where we didn't look at each other 980 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:28,360 Speaker 1: and go, what in the are we doing right now? Yeah? 981 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,520 Speaker 1: And Dustin Rose a tough son of a b man 982 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,759 Speaker 1: like he that there's nothing about him that that has 983 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: quit in him. I mean he's done just about everything 984 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,560 Speaker 1: on a mountain that that a guy could do. Um, 985 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: and to hear that of him is one good of him, 986 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,280 Speaker 1: is a part of a hunting party. But but also 987 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,880 Speaker 1: just tells me, hey, look, this is a this is 988 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:52,200 Speaker 1: a rough situation. And um, I think it's universal. You 989 00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,080 Speaker 1: know this. You get in these situations and you're suffering 990 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,720 Speaker 1: through something, then you you've kind of stacked the odds 991 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,640 Speaker 1: against yourself on purpose and or just you know, just 992 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,440 Speaker 1: by circumstance, and it takes a whole crew of people 993 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,400 Speaker 1: to to to accomplish something. And Um, watching the film, 994 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,400 Speaker 1: I just was struck by the story. Yeah sure, but 995 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,680 Speaker 1: I was just struck by the the team work it 996 00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:19,240 Speaker 1: takes to film, how cameras work when it's that cold, 997 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,279 Speaker 1: how a team of people have to work together. I mean, 998 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,959 Speaker 1: you guys were talking about having to hike a little 999 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 1: bit and then stop, and and somebody go through it 1000 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 1: and pick through the ice and hike a little bit 1001 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,000 Speaker 1: and stop, And I mean just the teamwork that it takes, 1002 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,480 Speaker 1: in the bond that you have with the people that 1003 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,400 Speaker 1: go on those types of trips with you. He's amazing you. 1004 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,359 Speaker 1: You know, I've never felt anything like it. Obviously I've 1005 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,319 Speaker 1: never been in the military or anything like that, but 1006 00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 1: I've never felt the bond like that. I mean, you 1007 00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,680 Speaker 1: guys all felt that coming off the mountain. I imagine, 1008 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,719 Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, no doubt. I mean to give some 1009 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,560 Speaker 1: context to that. So it's so two quick stories. Um, 1010 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,239 Speaker 1: before I know, we'll we'll need to start wrapping up. 1011 00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 1: But um, you to your point about Dustin, I don't 1012 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,360 Speaker 1: even remember the exact number but he's been um a 1013 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,960 Speaker 1: part of more than one hundred sheep hunts. That doesn't 1014 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,839 Speaker 1: mean he's he's guided all of those himself, but he's 1015 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,279 Speaker 1: been a part of them. UM And on one one 1016 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,919 Speaker 1: ascent or attempted an ascent before we got turned around 1017 00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,120 Speaker 1: with our tails between our legs. Um, it took us 1018 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,720 Speaker 1: seven and a half hours to go eleven vertical feet 1019 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,359 Speaker 1: and on that climb, So that that was in part 1020 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,879 Speaker 1: because of the steep, like the grade, the steepness, Um, 1021 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:32,640 Speaker 1: but also the snow depths. I mean when there were 1022 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,279 Speaker 1: there are points that and you'll see this in the 1023 00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:37,640 Speaker 1: film if you choose to watch it where you know 1024 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,600 Speaker 1: we're in snow that's anywhere from me to nipple deep 1025 00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,439 Speaker 1: at times. And so when you when you talk about 1026 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:49,400 Speaker 1: that teamwork, Ben, we went we had to break trail 1027 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,200 Speaker 1: everywhere we went through this this pretty hefty snowpack. And 1028 00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,960 Speaker 1: the guy leading, the guy breaking trail could only go, 1029 00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,160 Speaker 1: depending on the grade, you know, twenty two maybe forty 1030 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,640 Speaker 1: five minutes if you were lucky, UM before he would 1031 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,200 Speaker 1: be absolutely destroyed and would have to drop to the 1032 00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,760 Speaker 1: back of the stack. And the guy that was second 1033 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,000 Speaker 1: would now break trail. Guy that third is packing down 1034 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,080 Speaker 1: that trail a little bit more, and so on and 1035 00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,120 Speaker 1: so forth. So we were running this sort of flying 1036 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:20,280 Speaker 1: v of alternating guy's break and trail. So it's very 1037 00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,560 Speaker 1: very slow going, right. So one, you're right, the team 1038 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,560 Speaker 1: was I think essential. I don't know. I mean, I'm 1039 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,760 Speaker 1: sure there's people that could do it solo. They have 1040 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,320 Speaker 1: to be the harder, hardest s obs on the planet 1041 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,160 Speaker 1: to do it. I don't even know if two or 1042 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 1: three guys um could have could have done at least 1043 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,080 Speaker 1: the trip that we did. Um, I really believe that, 1044 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,320 Speaker 1: you know, four to six was the minimum to to 1045 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,720 Speaker 1: be able to even just move around like be mobile. 1046 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:45,880 Speaker 1: But on this climb, coming back to Dustin, on this 1047 00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,880 Speaker 1: climb that took us seven hours to cover, not a 1048 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,959 Speaker 1: whole lot of elevation, We're about halfway up and dust 1049 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,400 Speaker 1: and I are in the middle of the group and 1050 00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:55,840 Speaker 1: where you know, it's one of those you know, probably 1051 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,919 Speaker 1: someone to what you experienced in the poll in certain ways, 1052 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: obviously not the elevation side of it, but you know, 1053 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: the ten fifteen steps and he even and suck wind 1054 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,480 Speaker 1: over top of your hiking pools, right Dustin. Dustin turns 1055 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,000 Speaker 1: to me and we're both dripping sweat and and just 1056 00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,040 Speaker 1: working our butt off and we're dripping sweat at minus 1057 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,720 Speaker 1: twenty um, and he goes, it does not get any 1058 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,200 Speaker 1: more bleeping hardcore than this. He wipes the sweat off 1059 00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,919 Speaker 1: his brow and keeps hiking right. And so I said, 1060 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,880 Speaker 1: I stood there for a minute, and I thought, yeah, 1061 00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,080 Speaker 1: damn it, man, like if Dustin saying that, what the 1062 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,000 Speaker 1: hell did I get myself into? Right? Yeah? And you 1063 00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,280 Speaker 1: always come back from it, like if they don't know, 1064 00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,760 Speaker 1: not always. There's plenty of examples of people that have 1065 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,160 Speaker 1: unfortunate um things happen and maybe don't come back. But 1066 00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,680 Speaker 1: in these cases, like you, you have it doubt into 1067 00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,560 Speaker 1: the point where you know it's time to stop, and um, 1068 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,640 Speaker 1: what's cool about the film, but was also you know 1069 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,240 Speaker 1: what's cool about the people in it is that that 1070 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,400 Speaker 1: you're you're you're always moving the goal post back a 1071 00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,280 Speaker 1: little bit. You know, you get to the point where 1072 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,600 Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore, and and you stop and 1073 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:02,280 Speaker 1: you're like, I can do a little bit more, and 1074 00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,200 Speaker 1: then you go and you stop, and you go, I 1075 00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 1: can do a little bit more, and then you go, 1076 00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,000 Speaker 1: and then eventually you get to your destination and uh, 1077 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,280 Speaker 1: and then I'm sure I've been this way. But I'm 1078 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,240 Speaker 1: sure when you guys got back home and you were 1079 00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:17,400 Speaker 1: you know how your first world problem started to pop 1080 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,440 Speaker 1: up back in your real life. You're like, man, that's nothing. 1081 00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:26,040 Speaker 1: I have summitted. The craziest mountain um, and the craziest 1082 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,160 Speaker 1: weather and and the crazy situation is anybody can imagine. 1083 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:34,480 Speaker 1: Even if Dustin Ross has it's hardcore, it's hardcore. Um, 1084 00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 1: he's kind of the arbiter of hardcore in my mountain 1085 00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:42,400 Speaker 1: hunting life. And uh, he you know, you get back 1086 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,320 Speaker 1: and like life seems a little bit easier because because uh, 1087 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,760 Speaker 1: by comparison it is so UM. I appreciate that perspective, 1088 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,800 Speaker 1: and I really appreciate the perspective that film gives. UM. 1089 00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,440 Speaker 1: And and hopefully everybody gets to hear nolan story and 1090 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: watch that hunt because it is um it's one of 1091 00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,480 Speaker 1: the better ones I've seen a long time. And if 1092 01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:07,120 Speaker 1: you can watch it through the prism of pure elevated suffrage, UM, 1093 01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,160 Speaker 1: you'll probably enjoy it more and probably cringe a little 1094 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,320 Speaker 1: bit more. And some of the stuff you see, yeah, 1095 01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,040 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's the I think the best way 1096 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:20,040 Speaker 1: I could put it is. Um, if you're you know, 1097 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,280 Speaker 1: a a self considered you know, pretty serious backcountry or 1098 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: mountain hunter, you're definitely gonna like this film. Um. If 1099 01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,840 Speaker 1: if you couldn't care less about mountain hunting or goat hunting, 1100 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,960 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're still gonna like this film because 1101 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,480 Speaker 1: of what you just outlined it it is. It's you know, 1102 01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:41,160 Speaker 1: it's sure it's a hunting story, UM. But I think 1103 01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, like you outlined Ben, the um the camaraderie, 1104 01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,960 Speaker 1: the teamwork, um. You know, the the environment like the 1105 01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:52,160 Speaker 1: environment was was showcased obviously, um and and the suffrage 1106 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:53,720 Speaker 1: it took to to get it done. And that was, 1107 01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,680 Speaker 1: you know, admittedly a big part of what we wanted 1108 01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:57,720 Speaker 1: to share and while at the same time not stilly 1109 01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,720 Speaker 1: getting all romantic, but it's just show that, you know, 1110 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: not all hunting is um as easy as some people 1111 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,040 Speaker 1: might think it to be. And I do hope that 1112 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:08,160 Speaker 1: some people that don't hunt will stumble across it and 1113 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,160 Speaker 1: kind of go, huh wow. I didn't think that was 1114 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,920 Speaker 1: something that happened, right, um and and uh so, And 1115 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,640 Speaker 1: I don't want that to sound like it was you know, 1116 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,600 Speaker 1: contrived or manipulate. I mean, this is this is what 1117 01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,840 Speaker 1: it took. But um, and we knew that going into it, 1118 01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:25,320 Speaker 1: and that was part of why we wanted to do 1119 01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,320 Speaker 1: a film. We knew we were gonna We're gonna come 1120 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,480 Speaker 1: home with something pretty different. So so yeah, I just 1121 01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,480 Speaker 1: encourage and would be grateful for for anyone that's listening 1122 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,200 Speaker 1: to to check it out. Um. It is on the 1123 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,120 Speaker 1: longer side of what's considered normal these days. Ironically, when 1124 01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,760 Speaker 1: we talk about attention spans an eight hundred word stories, 1125 01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,200 Speaker 1: et cetera. It is a twenty minute, um, you know film. 1126 01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,560 Speaker 1: So it's not something I would say watch on your 1127 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,120 Speaker 1: on your phone if you can avoid it. But we've 1128 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,080 Speaker 1: we've had a lot of great feedback and the response 1129 01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,640 Speaker 1: has been phenomenal. And I'd like to add, ben if 1130 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,040 Speaker 1: I could just quickly that, um, all credit is due 1131 01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,200 Speaker 1: to Connor at tell Us Creative because he is really 1132 01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,240 Speaker 1: the brains behind what you see in that film. You know, 1133 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,160 Speaker 1: the shots, the shot angles, the way it was edited 1134 01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,480 Speaker 1: and cut together, the music, everything that that is that 1135 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,840 Speaker 1: is his. That is his baby, right. I mean I 1136 01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,080 Speaker 1: was involved obviously, um in whatever capacity you want to 1137 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,720 Speaker 1: call my involvement, But um, I was very thankfully able 1138 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,560 Speaker 1: to you know, chime in as needed and when needed 1139 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,400 Speaker 1: and then let Connor UM produce what you saw. So 1140 01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:30,280 Speaker 1: he's he's got an immense amount of talent, and you 1141 01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,680 Speaker 1: know everyone's everyone's been loving the film that has watched it. Well, 1142 01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:35,560 Speaker 1: that's good. I've always found that it's nice to have 1143 01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 1: really creative people around to make you look good. That's 1144 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:43,880 Speaker 1: indeed my experience. But this it's fantastic. Peace and hope 1145 01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,680 Speaker 1: everybody goes and checks it out and checks out the 1146 01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,520 Speaker 1: journal Mountain Hunting and it just kind of gets immersed 1147 01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,200 Speaker 1: in Adam's world and and the people he strounds himself with. 1148 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:55,400 Speaker 1: Because it is UM. I'd like to be real, real 1149 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 1: sy stake to the old podcast and bring it all around. 1150 01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:01,919 Speaker 1: It is something that can can help how you see 1151 01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,040 Speaker 1: hunting and really is is my estimation about the experience, 1152 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,680 Speaker 1: and UM can connect with with hunters on a different 1153 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,040 Speaker 1: level and people maybe that don't hunt, to help help 1154 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,480 Speaker 1: put that thing down. So the next time we have 1155 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,680 Speaker 1: a controversy, everybody has UM their ideas all packaged up 1156 01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,400 Speaker 1: and ready to go to UM fight these battles that 1157 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,800 Speaker 1: we we always we need to fight UM because we 1158 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,360 Speaker 1: hate to use those terms, but it's the truth. So Adam, 1159 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,360 Speaker 1: thank you very much for coming on and joining me, 1160 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,680 Speaker 1: and um for doing what you do in our industry, 1161 01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,480 Speaker 1: in our world, and uh being our resident Canadian if 1162 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,439 Speaker 1: you don't mind being that guy, and I sure don't 1163 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,360 Speaker 1: think of any damon, all right, brother, thank you so much. 1164 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,120 Speaker 1: Thank you, Ben, really appreciate the time, and uh for 1165 01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,640 Speaker 1: everyone listening. Thanks for sitting aside at the time to 1166 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,520 Speaker 1: listen to a Canadian with a funny accent. That's about it. 1167 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,160 Speaker 1: I can't say about very good. But a boots get 1168 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,760 Speaker 1: you gotta get your boot. It's a boot, Ben, a boot. 1169 01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,919 Speaker 1: That's a boot. It there you go, man, Thanks Ben, 1170 01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:07,040 Speaker 1: take care. That's it. That's all. Episode number sixteen in 1171 01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,600 Speaker 1: the books. Thank you to Adam. Thank you to the 1172 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,959 Speaker 1: journal Amountain Hunting for doing what you do. Everybody associated 1173 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:17,840 Speaker 1: with that media house, making films, making podcasts, printing out magazine. 1174 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,680 Speaker 1: We really appreciate you, appreciate your message, appreciate how you 1175 01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,840 Speaker 1: do it. H Episode number sixteen was great. Look forward 1176 01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,880 Speaker 1: episode number seventeen. I am making a trip to Bozeman, 1177 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,600 Speaker 1: Montana next week. Hopefully I'll catch up with a lot 1178 01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,439 Speaker 1: of guys open to catch up with one Cody Rich, 1179 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:40,640 Speaker 1: the Rich Outdoors, maybe catch up with the elusive Latvia 1180 01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:44,480 Speaker 1: and Eagle be honest to tell us this home country. 1181 01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,520 Speaker 1: Never know. Oh that's gonna go. But I do love 1182 01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,800 Speaker 1: Mesa Johnny, so look out for those episode number seventeen 1183 01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,280 Speaker 1: and eighteen. Hopefully we'll be those two folks, but we're 1184 01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:57,200 Speaker 1: headed there that it's gonna be fun until then. The 1185 01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,440 Speaker 1: Honey Collective dot com has articles, it has videos, it 1186 01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:06,520 Speaker 1: has other podcasts from Steve Rinella, Remy Warrant, John Dudley, 1187 01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,800 Speaker 1: Shane Mahoney. I'll remarcus the two most recent. I really 1188 01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,160 Speaker 1: want you to listen to a Ryan Callahan on episode 1189 01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:19,560 Speaker 1: number fifteen and Casey Butler an episode number fourteen. Both great, great, 1190 01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,600 Speaker 1: great people and a great hunt. I had those guys. 1191 01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,320 Speaker 1: It's Noora Mexico, so I'm not so norm Mexico so 1192 01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:30,440 Speaker 1: Noora Texas Way North. But those are two great podcasts 1193 01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:35,480 Speaker 1: with great guys, So keep listening, keep comment at video 1194 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:39,160 Speaker 1: B three oh one, on Instagram and on our website. 1195 01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:40,919 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from me. I'd love to see 1196 01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,960 Speaker 1: the emails, love to hear your stories. Please please keep 1197 01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:46,920 Speaker 1: coming it gets me up in the morning sometimes to 1198 01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:51,280 Speaker 1: read those awesome accounts and awesome reasoning everything you want 1199 01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:52,680 Speaker 1: me to know. Even if you want to tell me 1200 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,320 Speaker 1: that I saw, I'll read it. I appreciate you, guys, 1201 01:05:56,680 --> 01:06:18,280 Speaker 1: see you and instep and