1
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

3
00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,560
Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, And this is stuff you

4
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:21,239
Speaker 2: should know. Our ongoing fascination with Detroit edition.

5
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, this is very Detroit. I was gonna

6
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 1: say ad Jason, but it's like, firmly in Detroit's not

7
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,319
Speaker 1: even a Jason centered even because we're talking about white

8
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: boy Rick who if you have not seen the movie

9
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,279
Speaker 1: starring Oh god, what's the guy's.

10
00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,880
Speaker 2: Name who played him, Matthew McConaughey.

11
00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 1: No, he played the dad. Oh, Matthew McConaughey makes a

12
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:45,199
Speaker 1: little more sense older than we are.

13
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 2: I know. I was like, did they dress him up

14
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 2: like a teenager?

15
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,159
Speaker 1: Yeah? How do you play a fourteen year old? I

16
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:51,880
Speaker 1: can't remember the kid's name, but I have not seen

17
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: that movie. There's also a bunch of documentaries, but in

18
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:59,200
Speaker 1: particular one that's pretty good about this kid in the eighties,

19
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 1: Rick worsh who was an FBI informant at the age

20
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,040
Speaker 1: of fourteen in secret.

21
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,040
Speaker 2: Yes, and this is completely one hundred percent true, Like

22
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,720
Speaker 2: this has been vetted, thoroughly researched, and his claims, although

23
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 2: they seem like, Okay, this is just some guy talking,

24
00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,840
Speaker 2: you know who's in prison, just keeping himself from getting bored. Nope.

25
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,039
Speaker 2: Like basically everything he's ever said about his time as

26
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:32,080
Speaker 2: an FBI informant and a teenage drug runner has been confirmed.

27
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,080
Speaker 2: So this is an amazing true story. And it's also

28
00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 2: a sad true story in a lot of ways too,

29
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 2: because this guy lost a significant portion of his life

30
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 2: to really stupid drug laws at the height of the

31
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 2: War on drugs, when everybody was so gung ho about

32
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 2: just lock them up, lock the drug dealers up, and

33
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,560
Speaker 2: go ahead and lock up the drug users while you

34
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 2: do it too, and it was it was a bad

35
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,760
Speaker 2: time to be caught with kilos of coke. I can

36
00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:57,320
Speaker 2: tell you that.

37
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, after he had been almost induced into this lifestyle

38
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,800
Speaker 1: by the FBI as an informant, and then when that

39
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,720
Speaker 1: was as you'll see, when that was taken away. I

40
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: think it's hard for a kid to give up that

41
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,720
Speaker 1: lifestyle because that's his life at that point. Yeah, and

42
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 1: then you know, turned on him and there was cover

43
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 1: ups and Detroit, Detroit, and.

44
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think to describe how the FBI induced

45
00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,640
Speaker 2: him to do it. You can kind of say that

46
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,720
Speaker 2: they put a bunch of cash in his hand, Yeah,

47
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 2: popped his collar, turned him around by the shoulders, and

48
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 2: shoved him out onto the street. That's basically how they

49
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 2: induced him to essentially become a member of the East

50
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 2: Detroit drug scene, like drug supply scene. He was rolling

51
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,960
Speaker 2: with like as big as you get essentially at the time. Time.

52
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,280
Speaker 1: All right, so let's go back, I guess to his

53
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,000
Speaker 1: birth in nineteen sixty nine. He's close a couple of

54
00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,239
Speaker 1: years older than me, And like you said, this was

55
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 1: the East side of Detroit when he was six. This

56
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,239
Speaker 1: is Rick Wirsch Junior. His parents separated, his mom moved

57
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: out to the burbs, and then generally he and his

58
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:08,280
Speaker 1: sister Don lived with their dad, Matthew McConaughey, Richard Wirsch Senior.

59
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,560
Speaker 1: And it was a time where the auto industry was

60
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,080
Speaker 1: disappearing in Detroit. You know, the kind of familiar story

61
00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,079
Speaker 1: of Detroit is that it fell into sort of violence

62
00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: and drugs and crack came along, and white flight happened

63
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,240
Speaker 1: in a big, big way. So Rick and Don and

64
00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,919
Speaker 1: their father were a bit of an anomaly as a

65
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,200
Speaker 1: white family that kind of stayed where they were on

66
00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:32,880
Speaker 1: the Detroit's East Side at the time.

67
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one reason why is because this was their neighborhood.

68
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,360
Speaker 2: White boy. Rick's grandparents lived directly across the street from him,

69
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,440
Speaker 2: so like these were his dad's parents. It was like

70
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,000
Speaker 2: a family community. There were other people who were sticking around,

71
00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,080
Speaker 2: but yeah, they were. They were definitely outnumbered by the

72
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 2: people who were moving to town to essentially take over Detroit.

73
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 2: And there was a market just right for being taken over,

74
00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,040
Speaker 2: and it was there was this one group called the

75
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 2: Chamber Brothers. They moved from Arkansas and became some of

76
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,120
Speaker 2: the biggest dealers in town, so much so that at

77
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 2: one point they controlled a formerly opulent apartment building. It

78
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 2: was their stronghold headquarters that they sold crack out of,

79
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 2: manufacturer crack out of. It was a big, big operation

80
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 2: and it was just right there in the middle of Detroit.

81
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 2: Because this is one of the most lawless times in

82
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 2: the history of that city, entire history. Not only was

83
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 2: it the drug people, the cops were about as dirty

84
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,279
Speaker 2: as they come at the time too.

85
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So Rick's dad was a kind of

86
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 1: a schemer, had you know, various get rich or make

87
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 1: a little bit of money quick scams going on here

88
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 1: and there. He worked as a manager of a gun

89
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,120
Speaker 1: store as well and bought and sold guns out of

90
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,799
Speaker 1: his house, including like taking a son to gun shows

91
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 1: when he was just a kid. But the result of

92
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 1: that was is that his dad knew and was, you know,

93
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: had FBI guys like as his customers. He had agents

94
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,520
Speaker 1: that he was friendly with because they would buy guns

95
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,359
Speaker 1: from him, and so he ended up like this was

96
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,640
Speaker 1: sort of the entree into what would end up being

97
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,320
Speaker 1: his son's work with the fbis that he just knew

98
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 1: these guys as customers.

99
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one thing I saw in there was an

100
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 2: Atavist article that was really really good, but they basically

101
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,520
Speaker 2: said that Richard Worsch Senior he was a hustler and

102
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 2: he had a fascination with money. That was his big

103
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,600
Speaker 2: focus in life was to make money, and his son

104
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 2: Rick definitely adopted that from him, Like he definitely got

105
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,120
Speaker 2: that from his dad. So he didn't have a lot

106
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,080
Speaker 2: of options to make money at the time, aside from

107
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,720
Speaker 2: the drug trade. But he didn't really get into that

108
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,080
Speaker 2: at least not at first. But he was still doing

109
00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,120
Speaker 2: things like breaking into houses and making money that way.

110
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 2: So I mean, like he was definitely a street smart kid,

111
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 2: but he just wasn't involved in drug trafficking yet at

112
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:58,000
Speaker 2: the time.

113
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, his sister on took up a crack habit and

114
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,680
Speaker 1: started dating a guy named Terrence Bell, and Terrence took

115
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 1: and as you'll see, a lot of people took white

116
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,840
Speaker 1: boy Rick under their wing. I think he was you know,

117
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,080
Speaker 1: I've seen interviews. He seems like he was a pretty affable,

118
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,160
Speaker 1: likable guy because it seems like he made friends everywhere

119
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 1: he went and like had these sort of older you know,

120
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,920
Speaker 1: these are rough guys obviously, but older guys taking him

121
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 1: under the wing and sort of saying like, hey, here's

122
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: how you rob a house, here's how you do this.

123
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 1: And so that's what Terrence Bell, he was kind of

124
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,400
Speaker 1: the first guy to do that. Taught him how to

125
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 1: rob houses, taught him how to bust cars. There was

126
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 1: this one story where someone stole their family car and

127
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 1: they went after them, and Rick at fourteen, like used

128
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,280
Speaker 1: his sisters twenty two that she kept under purse to

129
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 1: shoot at these guys. Didn't hit anybody, but it was

130
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, he was like in the mix at this

131
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:50,279
Speaker 1: point for sure.

132
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 2: I can tell you that at fourteen, I had not

133
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:54,600
Speaker 2: ever shot at anybody.

134
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,719
Speaker 1: I had not I had shot a gun because we

135
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,440
Speaker 1: had a friend who was a cop who had a

136
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,359
Speaker 1: cabin in the mountains, and so he would take us

137
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: up there to like shoot target practice occasionally. But that's

138
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:07,560
Speaker 1: that was my only gun play.

139
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,680
Speaker 2: As a child, right, you never turned it on the guy?

140
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:10,840
Speaker 1: No?

141
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,600
Speaker 2: No, no, okay, yeah same here. Yeah. So let's see

142
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 2: spring of nineteen eighty four, Rick Junior is fourteen at

143
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,960
Speaker 2: the time, and the FBI, I guess who were friends

144
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,440
Speaker 2: with senior Richard Senior, were like, you know, this guy

145
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 2: is living in East Detroit. East Detroit is a hopbed

146
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 2: of this new crack epidemic. Let's go see if this

147
00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 2: guy can give us some info because we're friendly with them.

148
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 2: So they showed up at the Worsh house in East

149
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 2: Detroit and sat down with Worsh Senior Richard Senior, and

150
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 2: basically said, we just want any information you can have.

151
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 2: We have a bunch of pictures here. Can you id

152
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 2: any of these people that we've been following but don't

153
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 2: know who they are? And Richard Worsh was like, I

154
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,040
Speaker 2: don't know who those people are. I'm sorry, I can't

155
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 2: help you, but Rick Jr. Piped up and he's like, oh, well,

156
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 2: this guy is Johnny Curry or that guy's big Man Curry,

157
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,120
Speaker 2: and just started pointing people out. And the FBI suddenly

158
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,160
Speaker 2: was like, well, how much does this kid know. Let's

159
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 2: find out what he can tell us. And that's kind

160
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 2: of where the whole thing kicked off.

161
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, they were interested in the Curry twins.

162
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,800
Speaker 1: Johnny was little Man and I think you mentioned big Man.

163
00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: That was Leo. The two brothers, even though they were twins,

164
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,680
Speaker 1: I guess one might have been a little bigger than

165
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 1: the other. I'm not sure.

166
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 2: I guess I couldn't make heads or tails of that either.

167
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they were the main drug guys on the

168
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 1: East side of Detroit at the time, and they were

169
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:43,280
Speaker 1: also interested the FBI in the Curry gang because Johnny Curry,

170
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 1: who was little Man, was married to Kathy Volsen now

171
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,079
Speaker 1: Kathy Vulson Curry or then who happened to be the

172
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,880
Speaker 1: niece of the mayor of Detroit at the time, Coleman Young.

173
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,040
Speaker 1: And so you know, we have a situation building here

174
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,720
Speaker 1: where there there's clear kind of cover ups and corruption

175
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 1: already happening because the niece of the mayor is dating

176
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,080
Speaker 1: like a known drug guy, and the Feds are like,

177
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, we don't have any allegiance to these guys,

178
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:14,480
Speaker 1: so we want to bust them.

179
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 2: Sure exactly. They wanted to take down the crooked cops. Right,

180
00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 2: So that connection between city Hall and the police Department

181
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,640
Speaker 2: and the East Detroit drug trade all ran right directly

182
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,079
Speaker 2: through Kathy Bohlsen, Right, she was the thing that connected him.

183
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 2: But after that, you know, that initial connection, the other

184
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 2: kind of tethers started to form between those two groups,

185
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,560
Speaker 2: and before you know it, I mean, city Hall was

186
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,640
Speaker 2: in the police department. We're in bed with the drug

187
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,439
Speaker 2: trade in Detroit. Pretty quickly. One of the guys who

188
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 2: was a major player in this, his name was Gil Hilly.

189
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 2: He was the homicide commander, the guy in charge of

190
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 2: all homicides in Detroit. And this was a time when

191
00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 2: Detroit had something like seven hundred homicides a year. Now

192
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 2: it's like one sixty five. Like that is a mind

193
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:09,319
Speaker 2: boggling number of murders in Detroit, considering also that its

194
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,240
Speaker 2: population had plummeted too. Right, Yeah, this guy's in charge

195
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,880
Speaker 2: of all of those. His name's Gil Hill, and he

196
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:17,560
Speaker 2: also popped up elsewhere too.

197
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,199
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean strange but true. He was. If

198
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,960
Speaker 1: you've ever seen Eddie Murphy's great, great film Beverly Hills

199
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,480
Speaker 1: Cop from nineteen eighty four, he was the inspector Todd.

200
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: He was the one that was always yelling at Eddie

201
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,280
Speaker 1: Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop. And you might think, oh,

202
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,080
Speaker 1: that's pretty cool, and it is pretty cool. But Gil

203
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: Hill was not a good dude. As we'll see. He

204
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,319
Speaker 1: took payoffs and tried to put hits out on this kid.

205
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, so he was on the bad.

206
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,320
Speaker 2: Stuff big time, big time. And he also seems to

207
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,840
Speaker 2: have been inoperative for the mayor from what I can tell,

208
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,560
Speaker 2: although I believe the mayor nothing ever stuck with him.

209
00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 2: I don't even think he was ever indicted. He seems

210
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 2: to have been well aware of all this, especially because

211
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,720
Speaker 2: the person who the cops in city Hall and the

212
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,000
Speaker 2: criminals connected through was his niece, who apparently he raised

213
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:11,520
Speaker 2: like a daughter.

214
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

215
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 2: So at the time, this kid, he's just Richard worsh Junior, Ricky.

216
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 2: I think everybody called him. He's fourteen, and the FBI

217
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,360
Speaker 2: is sitting in his living room and they're starting to

218
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,920
Speaker 2: show him pictures now, not his dad. His Dad's just

219
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 2: kind of like, okay, so we'll have a seat and

220
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,679
Speaker 2: show these guys what you want or what you know.

221
00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 2: And so, being fourteen, Rick said that he was. He

222
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,080
Speaker 2: was like, wow, these really important authority figures are paying

223
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 2: attention to be. Let's see what I can do. And

224
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: he just started pointing people out and the FBI said,

225
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,400
Speaker 2: we're going to do something a little unorthodox. I'm sure

226
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 2: that's how they put it, and made scare quotes and

227
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 2: rolled their eyes at the time the right exactly, I've

228
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,200
Speaker 2: just got the wackiest idea. But what if you, fourteen

229
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 2: year old Rick became a federal informant for us the FBI?

230
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 2: What do you think would you like to do that?

231
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 2: And Rick's dad, being the amazing father figure that he was,

232
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 2: was like, well, I don't no, son, it's up to you.

233
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 2: You're fourteen. Do you want to be a federal informant

234
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 2: and put your life on the line every time you

235
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,920
Speaker 2: walk outside of the house? And Rick Junior said, yes,

236
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,480
Speaker 2: yes I do. And he actually became an off the

237
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,840
Speaker 2: books informant for the FBI in nineteen eighty four, age fourteen.

238
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a CI he was not legally allowed

239
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 1: to do something like that obviously, so the FBI, like

240
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:41,520
Speaker 1: you said, he kept it off the books. He was

241
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,640
Speaker 1: never listed as the informant, but they had to have

242
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,960
Speaker 1: something listed. So they said, well, can we use you dad,

243
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: Can we use your name and have everything kind of

244
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,839
Speaker 1: flow through you? And he said, sure, that sounds good

245
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,800
Speaker 1: to me. So Richard Senior was approved in June nineteen

246
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,400
Speaker 1: eighty four. Technic is the informant, but it was really

247
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,839
Speaker 1: his son. And pretty soon, you know, because I said,

248
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,880
Speaker 1: Rick was a likable kid and you know, made friends easily.

249
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,320
Speaker 1: He made friends with a guy named Rudell Curry, who

250
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 1: was the little brother of the twins Johnny and Leo.

251
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 1: Little Boo was twenty three years old, and they they

252
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 1: became buddies. Like he was a twenty three year old

253
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 1: with a with a fourteen year old friend who like,

254
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 1: you know, it was kind of like hey Spike, Hey Spike,

255
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,280
Speaker 1: like one of those deals. He had this kid following

256
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,359
Speaker 1: around and like they love cars and they love motorcycles

257
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 1: and they loved kind of that lifestyle. And so before

258
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,679
Speaker 1: you know it, they were fast friends. And bo invited

259
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,559
Speaker 1: Rick to hang out hang out with him, like right

260
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 1: around in the in the car go to the roller rink,

261
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,079
Speaker 1: and apparently the Johnny, one of the twins, is a

262
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,719
Speaker 1: guy who came up with the name white Boy Rick. Yeah.

263
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,360
Speaker 2: One of the things that I gathered about a White

264
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 2: Boy Rick was that even at fourteen, fifteen sixteen, he

265
00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:00,120
Speaker 2: could hang with older people and ultimately eventually betray he

266
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 2: did kind of like an equal Yeah. I mean, which again,

267
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,760
Speaker 2: like just stop and think that, Like that's just crazy

268
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,760
Speaker 2: in and of itself, let alone the fact that this

269
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 2: kid is actually a federal informant, right, that was his role.

270
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 2: That was his purpose for making friends with Bu Curry

271
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 2: and hanging out with the Curry gang was to get

272
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 2: information to give to the FBI. That's why he showed up.

273
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 2: And he, like you said, he was so affable and

274
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 2: could hang that they opened him. They opened their organization

275
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,080
Speaker 2: up to him, and he would be in some really

276
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,640
Speaker 2: high level meetings. Like he knew a lot of stuff

277
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,160
Speaker 2: that he kind of gathered over the next three four years.

278
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 1: For sure. Uh, maybe that's a good time to take

279
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 1: a break. What a setup, Yeah, I think so, especially

280
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,840
Speaker 1: if you never heard about the story, Like can you

281
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,760
Speaker 1: imagine hearing this for the first time.

282
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 2: I know, I envy those people.

283
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,160
Speaker 1: All right, So we'll be right back after this and

284
00:14:54,160 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 1: talk about where it's headed next stop. All right, So

285
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,120
Speaker 1: little white boy Rick is hanging out with his his

286
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 1: older friends. They're doing bad stuff, and he's, you know,

287
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 1: he's speeding information to the FBI that they're using like

288
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 1: kind of on a smaller scale, some kind of kind

289
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: of lower level crimes. I wouldn't say petty crimes. Probably

290
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 1: above that level, but nothing huge. But over a couple

291
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,840
Speaker 1: of years, like they are feeding him money, like you

292
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 1: said in Act one, Like I think they said, over

293
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,480
Speaker 1: the first couple of years, they paid him about thirty

294
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,400
Speaker 1: thousand dollars off the books to you know, to use

295
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 1: to buy cocaine sometimes and to you know, to make

296
00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 1: sure he could kind of live that lifestyle. So before

297
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 1: you know it, little fourteen year old white boy Rick

298
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 1: is got a fur coat and a Rolex and he's

299
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 1: he has cars even though he's fourteen years old and

300
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 1: can't legally drive, but.

301
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 2: He still drove him. He had a white Jeep and

302
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,720
Speaker 2: the snowman was stintled on the back.

303
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah he's still into cars.

304
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, he has a thing for cars.

305
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,760
Speaker 2: It turns out, but yeah, he made like thirty grand

306
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 2: over the next two years, which is almost one hundred

307
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: grand in today's dollars. Do you remember how much money

308
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 2: you made between the ages of fourteen and sixteen?

309
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 1: I made three twenty five an hour as a bus boy. Yeah,

310
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 1: that was minimum wage. I probably forty bucks a week

311
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 1: or something.

312
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so I estimated I maybe made something like the

313
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 2: neighborhood of two thousand dollars over those those years.

314
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 1: Oh okay, this is like you were hustling too.

315
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 2: No, I mean I just had jobs here there, and

316
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,120
Speaker 2: I think if you put it all together, it probably

317
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: be pulled that over two years.

318
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a thousand. I think both of us liked

319
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,919
Speaker 1: having our own money as kids, for sure, so we

320
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,000
Speaker 1: didn't like my parents didn't give me money. I don't

321
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,640
Speaker 1: think your parents probably gave you money the right.

322
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 2: I had something of an allowed, but it dwindled as

323
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,600
Speaker 2: I got older, Like by the time I was thirty,

324
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:15,560
Speaker 2: it was almost nothing.

325
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like I wanted to buy I wanted to

326
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 1: go to concerts for seven bucks, and I wanted to

327
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 1: buy records, and you wanted to buy cigarettes.

328
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 2: I wanted to buy cigarettes. I wanted to buy slim

329
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,920
Speaker 2: gyms and twigs and Kingsbury non alcoholic pier.

330
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 1: It's very empowering to make money as a kid. You know,

331
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 1: I think that's not completely gone away. But I don't

332
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 1: think teenagers have jobs these days like we did back then.

333
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 2: No, but you just said a mouthful chuck just having

334
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,680
Speaker 2: whatever money you make. Would you say forty bucks a week?

335
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably something like that, you know when I was

336
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: early on.

337
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,320
Speaker 2: Right, okay, and you were empowered by that by walking

338
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,040
Speaker 2: by getting that paycheck cash in it. I got forty bucks.

339
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm fifteen years old. Imagine having ten thousand bucks at

340
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 2: the end of a week and you're fifteen years old. Yeah,

341
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 2: but that's how off the rails this kid's life suddenly

342
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,680
Speaker 2: got because the FBI had pushed him into this life

343
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,639
Speaker 2: and said, go go you know, you have some money,

344
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,199
Speaker 2: go buy a mink coke, Go buy a Rolex. And

345
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,679
Speaker 2: this kid could do it. And I mean just the

346
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 2: fact that he is still alive, wasn't killed back then,

347
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 2: and didn't manage to kill anybody or anything like that.

348
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 2: Like he kept it together enough that like it actually

349
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 2: turned out about as good as it could. Although we'll

350
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 2: see that it turned out really rotten. But I don't know,

351
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,880
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure how to put what I'm saying.

352
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 2: It just seems like this could have gone so wrong

353
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 2: so many different ways, just from feeling like emboldened and

354
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 2: powerful and strong from all that money he had at

355
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,520
Speaker 2: that really tender age.

356
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And there was no one as far

357
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 1: as I could tell in the FBI that was like, hey,

358
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,719
Speaker 1: maybe we maybe shouldn't let this kid do this. No,

359
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:02,360
Speaker 1: because he's a.

360
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,400
Speaker 2: Child, exactly, And his dad wasn't saying that either.

361
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

362
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,080
Speaker 2: So I want to say the impression I have of

363
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 2: his dad is that he was not a bad guy,

364
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,640
Speaker 2: and he does seem to regret a lot of the

365
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 2: decisions he didn't make back at this time. So I

366
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 2: don't think he was like just a bad dude who

367
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 2: didn't carry seems like he was pretty involved in his

368
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 2: son's life. The problem was his son's life included, you know,

369
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 2: driving a jeep that said the Snowman on back and

370
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 2: selling cocaine for the FBI.

371
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think what the takeaway is is

372
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 1: that ultimately his dad said, I'll right, all right.

373
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 2: All right, that's right.

374
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm really curious to see this movie now. I wonder

375
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:42,879
Speaker 1: how mcconaughete plays this.

376
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm sure exactly like you just.

377
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 1: Said, because he does not scream eastside Detroit.

378
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:48,880
Speaker 2: No, he really does.

379
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 1: All right. So you said something about him avoiding getting killed,

380
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: which is fairly remarkable. But he did get shot at

381
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 1: least once. In November of eighty four, he was shot

382
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 1: in the stomach by a gang member who said it

383
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 1: was an accident, but Rick was like initially was like, hey,

384
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: they found out who I am. That's why I got shot.

385
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 1: The girlfriend of the guy who shot him called nine

386
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 1: one one, and before the ambulance could get there, there

387
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: were some other gang members who showed up put in

388
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,239
Speaker 1: the backseat of the car, and he didn't know, like,

389
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 1: are they taking me to the hospital or again it

390
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 1: take me out and dump me in the woods, Like

391
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: what's going on? And perhaps so had it not been

392
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 1: for that ambulance showing up and blocking the driveway and

393
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: saying like give that kid to us, now.

394
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that had a really like a big

395
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 2: chilling effect that he was ready to quit. And the

396
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: FBI showed up at his hospital room and said just

397
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 2: keep going. They would have killed you if they actually

398
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 2: did know right. They wouldn't have let you go in

399
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 2: an ambulance. You would be dead already, so just keep going.

400
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 2: And I guess he was like, I don't know, and

401
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 2: they're like, got ten grand right here, and he's like,

402
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 2: all right, you guys, you know me so well. And

403
00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: he got back to it.

404
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. And not only that, they said you can actually

405
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,400
Speaker 1: use this Rick right, like you got street cred now

406
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,120
Speaker 1: and not many people, especially your age, have been shot

407
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,479
Speaker 1: and lived to tell about it. So like you're kind

408
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: of a cool kid now in that and that gang.

409
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: And he kind of was that. I mean it worked

410
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: out that way. Yeah. I think in February of eighty five,

411
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: after he had been doing this a little while, is

412
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 1: when they got their first like really big raid almost

413
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: at Sting, but he had, you know, Rick gave him

414
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,880
Speaker 1: information that led to about two hundred grand in cash

415
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 1: when they raided a house, some video equipment, obviously a

416
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: lot of cocaine and guns, like all the things you

417
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: would expect to find.

418
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,119
Speaker 2: I saw they just had two punch bowls full of

419
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 2: cocaine just sitting out on the table.

420
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:42,880
Speaker 1: Nice punch bowls are big.

421
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: That kind of house, that's a lot of cocaine it

422
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 2: really is. Yeah. There was an FBI agent named John

423
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: Anthony who said that that Rick was the most productive

424
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 2: informant the agency had in Detroit at the time, the

425
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 2: whole city, not just teach Detroit. This is a fifteen

426
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: year old kid. I mean, that's a huge bus to

427
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 2: get two hundred grand and nineteen eighty five dollars and

428
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 2: punch bowls of cocaine. So he becomes such an amazing

429
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: asset chuck that at one point the Curry Gang bunch

430
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: of other big drug dealers from Detroit were going to

431
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: see the Marvin Hagler Tommy Hearns fight because Hearns was

432
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 2: the pride of Detroit and this is a title middleweight fight,

433
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 2: I believe in nineteen eighty five, the hit man, right,

434
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 2: So all these Detroit drug dealers were going to watch

435
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 2: the match, and they invited white boy Rick, and the

436
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: FBI got him like a high quality fake ID and

437
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 2: paid to send him to Vegas, paid for his plane ticket,

438
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 2: paint for his hotel, gave him some walking around money,

439
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 2: and said, go, fifteen year old, go to Las Vegas

440
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: with a group of high level drug dealers and just

441
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 2: find out what you can. And he did.

442
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's kids in Vegas at the Tommy Hearns fight. Yeah. Yeah,

443
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean the story just gets crazier. After he gets

444
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: back from Vegas, part of the Curry gang engaged in

445
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 1: a dry by shooting. It accidentally killed a thirteen year

446
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: old boy named Damian Lucas, and the cops basically made

447
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: this investigation go away. And Rick was like it was

448
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: starting to kind of dawn on him because of this

449
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: personal tie that the Currys had with the mayor that like,

450
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: wait a minute, like this is now getting covered up

451
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: on a large scale because they've killed this kid, this

452
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 1: thirteen year old a couple of years younger than me,

453
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: and Johnny Curry gave Beverly Hills cop a guy ten

454
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: grand as a bribe to cover it up. And Rick

455
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: found out about this.

456
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was riding around in the car with Johnny Curry,

457
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 2: who had the who had Gil Hill Commander Gil Hill

458
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: on oh what is it called when you have it

459
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: on speaker? He had him on speaker and they were

460
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: talking about covering it up for the Curry gang, and

461
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: he did like that was a that was a big,

462
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 2: big turning point in this whole story. The murder of

463
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: Damian Lucas.

464
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So that FBI, you know, things are

465
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: getting pretty hairy. They cut ties with him just before

466
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: he turned sixteen. Richard Senior was now off the books

467
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: as the I guess fake in formant in June of

468
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, and you know, it seems pretty clear

469
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: that they're probably worried, like, hey, this has gone far enough.

470
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: If this gets out that we've done this, it's not

471
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: gonna look great for us as speds. And this is when,

472
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of remarked earlier about how well,

473
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: now this kid is in this lifestyle right and he's

474
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: having the cord pulled on him, like the rug pulled

475
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: out from under him. And so Rick, you know, does

476
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: what a kid that age and that you know, not

477
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: quite yet fully formed brain would do, which is, hey,

478
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep doing this stuff. So he got

479
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: into the real drug trade after the FBI dropped him.

480
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is It's disputed whether that happened after or

481
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: before they dropped him, so like during as he was

482
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,160
Speaker 2: an FBI and foreman, and it seems like it's probably

483
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: there's a really good chance that it actually had happened,

484
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 2: and that one of the reasons the FBI dropped him

485
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: was because his actual drug career was taking off quite nicely,

486
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: and they were like, we just this kid's getting too hot.

487
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: Rather than being like we're gonna bring you in from

488
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: the cold, kid, like we're gonna move you somewhere, because

489
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: we we did this to you, we need to give

490
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: you set you up with a normal life. They just

491
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: walked away, like dusting their hands off and left him

492
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: to this life and East Detroit as a what he

493
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: eventually became a very prominent drug dealer.

494
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, all the connections he had made

495
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: were valuable connections, as you know, his his I don't

496
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: won't to say legit, but I guess he was a

497
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: legit drug dealer. Yeah. One of the guys, the main

498
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: guys who kind of got him involved, was a friend

499
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: he made through those connections with the Curries was a

500
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: wholesale cocaine guy named Art Derek. He was a suburban

501
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: dude who was operating some drug planes that were coming

502
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: up into Miami, and Rick became friends with him and

503
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: his son, and he, you know, the kid sixteen years

504
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: old that at this point starts buying as much as

505
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: like fifty kilos at a time. As a cocaine wholesaler

506
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: himself is what they call a weight man. Like he's

507
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: not he's not operating a ring of like dealers or

508
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: anything like that, but he's bringing in the large amounts

509
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: and selling that stuff.

510
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,239
Speaker 2: Right, which he just by that, by virtue of that,

511
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: he automatically made less money. I saw FBI agent estimate

512
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: he was probably making five thousand dollars off a key,

513
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: but he was selling tons and tons of keys, so

514
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 2: he was making like really significant money. But you could

515
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: also take a single key and turned it into a

516
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: million dollars, broken down into like and converted into five

517
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: dollars hits of crack if you were willing to do

518
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 2: all that. That's what the chamber Brothers did. Those guys

519
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: who took over the apartment building. They made an estimated

520
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: fifty five million dollars a year doing that. But I mean,

521
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: like wipe boy. Rick was later implicated as being one

522
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: of the people who supplied the chamber Brothers with their cocaine,

523
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: like he became a wholesale coke dealer. That's not necessarily true,

524
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: but he definitely did supply plenty of people with their

525
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 2: cocaine as a wholesale coke dealer. And one of the

526
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: things that he didn't do this to me really stands out.

527
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: He hung with the Curries, but he never became a

528
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 2: Curry soldier. He never became a Curry drug dealer. He

529
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: had his own operation essentially going on where he sold

530
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: keys to other people, and he was just basically an

531
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: associate of the Curries, which I thought was super cool,

532
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: like he just kept his own identity rather than just

533
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 2: being absorbed into the Curry gang.

534
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, he ended up getting some of the Curry

535
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: brothers in trouble just from all the information they had

536
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 1: fed you know, the FBI. Over the years, they were

537
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: starting to make arrest I think in eighty seven they

538
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: indicted the at least the twins and some other people

539
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: in their organization and they pleaded guilty at the time

540
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 1: to drugs and racketeering. Obviously, they kept it quiet about

541
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: the city government at that point. They were still like

542
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: not selling out, like the mayor and the corrupt cops,

543
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: and the city was like great, We're like we need

544
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: to keep it this way. And I think that's when

545
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: we found out about Gil Hill, Beverly Hills cop Gil

546
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: Hill trying to get this guy, Nate boone Craft to

547
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: assassinate little white boy Rick. I think he offered him

548
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty five grand and he tried to

549
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: kill him a couple of times.

550
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that you've arrived. If you're sixteen years

551
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: old and you're not going to be murdered, you're going

552
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: to be assassinated. That means you know a lot.

553
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: And the guy from Beverly Hills cop was the one

554
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: making the call.

555
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, It's like, who would ever believe this? Right?

556
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

557
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, Nate Boonecraft later admitted to trying on two

558
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: different occasions to carry out that hit.

559
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: So Rick is trying to capitalize on, you know, the

560
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: curries now suddenly being not completely out of the picture,

561
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: but at least some of the main guys being rounded

562
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: up and kind of feel devoid the drug void that

563
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: that was left by them. And he starts dating Kathy Volson.

564
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: She was twenty four, he was seventeen. He was making

565
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: about thirty grand a month and has three kids at

566
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: this point.

567
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if they were all with her.

568
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: I don't think they were, but I think his firstborn,

569
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: Keisha was And the fact that Kathy Volson started dating him.

570
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: You said that, you know, he was a legit drug dealers,

571
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: as legit as a drug dealer can be. She helped

572
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 2: legitimize him like she is a and she was, especially

573
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: at this time, a big, big deal in East Detroit,

574
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden like this essentially like East

575
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: Detroit royalty, like criminal royalty. He comes down, is like,

576
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start dating you now, white boy Rick, and

577
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: she she essentially like just put that seal of approval

578
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: on him that that just kind of really gave him

579
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 2: a certain luster in that area.

580
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and presumably did not get arrested herself for you know,

581
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: having sex with an underage kid.

582
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: No, no, I think they had other things in mind.

583
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: But even still, she she would not have gotten arrested

584
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: because she had Detroit p D keeping tabs on her

585
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: as protection, because the mayor had ordered the DPD to

586
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: constantly surveil her to make sure she was okay, not

587
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: to catch her with anything, in fact, to look the

588
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: other way on it. So she can essentially do anything

589
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: she wanted to, and it would have been fine.

590
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: For her for sure. All Right, Well, let's take our

591
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: second break and we'll finish up with the saga of

592
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: White Boy Rick.

593
00:30:49,720 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: Right after this, yes, okay, chuck, So the party ends.

594
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: On May twenty second, nineteen eighty seven, the Detroit police

595
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: decide that Rick needs to go down. If Nate Boonecraft

596
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 2: can't kill him, we're just gonna do it the old

597
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: fashioned way and arrest him and just block him up.

598
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: And they found thirty grand in cash in his car.

599
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: They also found eight keys of cocaine that was stashed

600
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: under a neighbor's porch that Rick said, yeah, that's mine. Yeah,

601
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: he was seventeen, so he's still a juvenile. And he

602
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: got arrested with eight keys and thirty grand in cash.

603
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: He made bail, and then a few months later, in October,

604
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: he was arrested again, this time with five kilos of

605
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: cocaine and guns, drug paraphernalia, the whole thing even worse.

606
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: Some of this stuff was found in his dad's house

607
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: and his grandparents' house, which means they could have gone

608
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: to prison, lost their houses like they really had them.

609
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: If they didn't have him in May, they really had

610
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: him in October, right, And so around about this time,

611
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: the name white Boy Rick becomes much more widely known,

612
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: not just in East Detroit, but in Detroit as a whole,

613
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: and then very quickly across the nation because it was

614
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: such a crazy novelty. Yeah, that there was this seventeen

615
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: year old white kid who was essentially the only white

616
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: kid in East Detroit's drug trade and seemed to be

617
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: pretty powerful. And in fact, the media, in particular Chris

618
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: Hansen really what's the word I'm looking for, I don't know,

619
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: fraudulently inflated the importance of white boy Rick, like right

620
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: out of the gate, just because it was so novel.

621
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, the it's the media, and

622
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: that's what the media does, so they, Yeah, it was

623
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: very sensationalized. You know, this stuff obviously happened, but it's like, hey,

624
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: let's run, you know, another sort of injustice basically was like, hey,

625
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: let's run with his story because this is a kid

626
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: and it'll you know, there weren't clicks at the time,

627
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: but like it'll get views or whatever on our on

628
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: our station and in our newspaper. So it was a

629
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: big sort of sensational trial. When he finally was brought

630
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: forward the following January, and at the beginning the Feds

631
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: met with Rick and his dad and his mom are like, Hey,

632
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: if you want to testify and turn state's evidence against

633
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: this everybody, basically, you can do that and we're gonna,

634
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: you know, we can help you out. And he was like, dude,

635
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: I would get killed so fast, your head would spend

636
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: so no, thank.

637
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: You, right, yeah, So he passed on that. He was like,

638
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna see what I can do with

639
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: the jury. He actually felt pretty good about his chances

640
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: because they hadn't found the eight keys on him. They

641
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: found it under a neighbor's porch. Like there were all

642
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 2: sorts of extenuating circumstances. The problem was he had the

643
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: full force and weight of Detroit City Hall and the

644
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: Detroit Police Department against him. In every back channel you

645
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: can imagine in the city at that time. They were

646
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: working to get him convicted as badly as he could

647
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 2: be convicted. The media wasn't helping somebody. I think Chris

648
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: Hansen again, he started in Detroit. He would go on

649
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 2: to be the to Catch a predator guy. They showed

650
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: an org chart which showed all of the city's biggest

651
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: drug dealers, and guess who was at the very top.

652
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: The kingpin they portrayed as the guy who supplied all

653
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 2: of the big drug dealers in Detroit. Why no other

654
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: than white boy Rick, Because remember they were trying to

655
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: really kind of make this even more sensational than it

656
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: already was, so they just said, well, this guy's actually

657
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: the guy. Can you believe that? And that did not

658
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 2: help his chances either, because he started to be seen

659
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: as if there's a crack epidemic in Detroit, this guy

660
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: is ground zero for the problem.

661
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. They did not disclose in the trial

662
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: at any point that he was a federal informant that

663
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: he was a CI. He said later, like, you know,

664
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: Rix talked a lot about this over the years, but

665
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: he later claimed that he was that the lawyers that

666
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: they assigned him the public defenders were connected to the mayor,

667
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: who obviously was kind of trying to make all this

668
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: go away and cover up for everything on his family side,

669
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: and was like, hey, lock this kid away basically, and

670
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: make sure these lawyers make sure that happen one of

671
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: those And you know that hasn't been proven, but this

672
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: is what Rick said, makes a lot of sense. And

673
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: one of those lawyers that was on his quote unquote

674
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: team went on to fight his parole in two thousand

675
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: and three. So that kind of says it all.

676
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: It really does. Yeah, that's not good defense right there.

677
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: The judge who convicted him said that he was worse

678
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: than a mass murderer during his sentencing, I believe, And

679
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 2: even if the judge hadn't wanted to do this, she

680
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: had no choice. He was given life in prison without

681
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 2: parole at age seventeen. And the reason why the judge

682
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: had no choice is because about ten years earlier, Michigan

683
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: had passed a law called the six fifty Lifer Law,

684
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 2: where if you were caught with six hundred and fifty

685
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: grams or more of cocaine, which is about one and

686
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: a half pounds or a little under half of a kilo,

687
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: you got a life sentence without parole, no questions asked.

688
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 2: If you were convicted of that, you went to prison

689
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 2: for life. And this kid was seventeen and got that

690
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: sentence and was told that he was worse than a

691
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: mass murderer. So things were not looking very good for

692
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 2: him when he was sentenced. After he was convicted, Yeah,

693
00:36:59,480 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: for sure.

694
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: It was a period in a country where mandatory minimums

695
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: were kind of popping up all over the place for

696
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: what it's worth The governor who signed that one said

697
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: it was the greatest mistake of his career. Probably didn't

698
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: make Rick feel much better. But after the trial, Matthew

699
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 1: McConaughey is giving interviews and he's basically saying, like, hey,

700
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: we were federal informants. My son at fourteen was a

701
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: federal informant. But at this point, like this wasn't disclosed

702
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: in the trial or anything, so everyone thinks it's just

703
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: this dad kind of ranting this crazy talk. No one's

704
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: taking him seriously. They didn't have any kind of credibility.

705
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: And in nineteen ninety one, in prison, Rick starts working

706
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: for the FEDS again from prison in an operation called

707
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: Operation Backbone.

708
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 2: Right. One of the FBI agents who had worked with

709
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: him before, I think he was the first one who

710
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 2: turned Rick into an informant at age fourteen's name is

711
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 2: Greg Schwartz. He came to him years later for this

712
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: Operation Backbone and said, we've been listening in to the

713
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 2: Curries for years now, and we are it's quite clear

714
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 2: that they are in bed with the Detroit Police Department

715
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: and City Hall and it's time for us to take

716
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: them down. We need your help. So he and Kathy

717
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 2: Vohlsen were they'd broken up, but they remained friendly and

718
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 2: she would visit him in prison pretty regularly. So because

719
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: she was the thing that everything centered on, he basically

720
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 2: used her to infect the drug and city hall connection

721
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: with a DEA agent I'm sorry, FBI agent who went

722
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: under cover and carried out like this highly successful operation Backbone.

723
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a big They got eleven cops. Other

724
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: people obviously were arrested, but they got, you know, eleven

725
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: crooked cops out of that. One of them was, I mean,

726
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: several of them were like kind of in the Mayor

727
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: Young's inner circle. I think his favorite bodyguard was implicated.

728
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: His brother in law, who was Kathy Bolson's father, was implicated,

729
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: and she was he been implicated at first and initially charged,

730
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: but the charges on her were dropped.

731
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. One of the things I saw, Chuck,

732
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 2: that one of the cops the Detroit cops did, was

733
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: asked to do as part of this sting, was to

734
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: carry an assault rifle around airport security so that it

735
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: could be taken aboard a plane to be used in

736
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 2: a hit in Chicago. And he did it. Like that's

737
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 2: how dirty the cops were and the FBI was the one.

738
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: They were the ones setting him up because this undercover

739
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: agent has totally infiltrated this group. Because white Boy Rick

740
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: vouched for him over and over again and introduced him

741
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: to Kathy Wolson Curry, who kind of tacitly vouched for

742
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: him too. It was about as great of an operation

743
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: as you could hope for if you're an FBI person.

744
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 2: The mayor almost came very he came very close to

745
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: going down to he didn't. And yet despite all this cooperation,

746
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: despite all the stuff he had done for the FBI

747
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: up to this point, he could not get paroled to

748
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 2: save his life.

749
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: No, I think you know you said it was about

750
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: it went about as well as it could. I think

751
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: it quite didn't because or didn't quite because they they

752
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: would have loved to have gotten the mayor, and they

753
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: would have loved to have gotten the higher ups in

754
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: the police department. They ended up getting, you know, rank

755
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: and file cops. They didn't get Gil Hill. They had

756
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: a literally like Rick testified, like, hey, I heard a

757
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: phone call where Beverly that guy from Beverly Hills cop

758
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: agreed to cover up that kid's killing from the drive

759
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: by shooting and he was never charged, so you know,

760
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: they they didn't get the big fish, but they certainly

761
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: got enough people. I think this was not too long

762
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: after the Mary and Barry scandal smoking crack as a mayor,

763
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: like a high profile mayor, and I think there was

764
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: a lot of just like, hey, we don't need another

765
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: scandal of another high profile mayor in this country, like

766
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: doing the wrong thing, right.

767
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: So Greg Schwartz actually he showed up. He said, Okay,

768
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: you helped us out. It was good enough for us

769
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: to reward you. So we're going to move you to

770
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 2: a medium security prison in Florida, and we're going to

771
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: basically put you under witness protection under an assumed name.

772
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: And while he was there in Florida, this was I

773
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: think up to the two thousands, so he was in

774
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 2: Florida for a while. He was just doing his thing.

775
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 2: And remember we talked about how much he loved cars. Well,

776
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 2: he was caught running or at least participating in a

777
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: car theft ring, a stolen car ring. From prison, he

778
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: was helping coordinate the whole thing. And that's tough to

779
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: do and not get caught because eventually your conversation is

780
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 2: going to be overheard. Or listened to, and you're going

781
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 2: to get in trouble, and that's exactly what happened. They

782
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 2: got him on racketeering charges in two thousand and five.

783
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that lands him back in Michigan in prison,

784
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 1: and this whole time, White boy Rick is in prison

785
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: for you know, decades. At this point, h and everyone

786
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: else that he was had been you know, associating with,

787
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: was getting out. Johnny Curry got out ninety nine, that

788
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: hitman that tried to kill him twice and admitted to

789
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: murdering thirty people, did seventeen years and then cooperated with

790
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: the cops. That mandatory minimum that sent him the six

791
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: fifty lifer that was overturned by the Michigan Supreme Court

792
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, and everyone else that had been

793
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: impacted by that law ended up free within six years.

794
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: But Rick stayed in prison. He just kept getting denied parole.

795
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: I think the first one was in two thousand and three.

796
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 1: He asked, like, you know, some of the Feds that

797
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: he was working with to help him out, and they

798
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. One of the guys that he had

799
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: worked with, a guy named Herman Groman, basically was like,

800
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: all right, I'll tell him about Operation back Bone, and

801
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 1: he helped us out with that, but not the stuff

802
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: from when you were fourteen.

803
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, the problem is like none of that was ever

804
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: going to help because white boy Rick had broken a

805
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: really big rule by ratting out on cops. He was

806
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: smart enough to not read out his drug dealer friends,

807
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: but he definitely read it out on the cops, and

808
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 2: the cops went to great links to make sure he

809
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: stayed in prison, to make an example out of him,

810
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 2: and to punish him too. And so, in a really

811
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: unusual move, a bunch of Detroit police officers went to

812
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 2: his two thousand and three parole hearing and basically just lied,

813
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 2: lied about what a horrible criminally was, like what a

814
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 2: terrible effect he had on Detroit, and how he really

815
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 2: needed to stay in prison, and he got denied, got

816
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: denied again in two thousand and eight, and he got

817
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 2: denied again in twenty twelve too.

818
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that Greg Schwartz, the FED this time, actually wrote

819
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: a letter saying like, hey, he did a lot of

820
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: stuff with us. Actually it wasn't just Operation Backbone, that

821
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: Damian Lucas murder. He tried to help us out with that.

822
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: That thirteen year old kid who got killed. And he said,

823
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: you know, we never disclosed this stuff because he was

824
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: a kid, and we would have been exposed and embarrassed

825
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: at the federal government was working with a kid in

826
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: this capacity. They rejected that one too, even though we

827
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: finally had someone willing to vouch for him. And until

828
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, there wasn't a lot of I mean, aside

829
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 1: from just you know, the earlier time when he actually

830
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: got sent to prison, it had really quieted down about

831
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: you know, white boy Rick, like no one kind of

832
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: knew who he was. And then in twenty thirteen that

833
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: there was a guy named Seth Ferranti who was an

834
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: incarcerated journalist. He wrote a column at The Fix that

835
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: reported a lot of this stuff, and then that was

836
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 1: picked up by Evan Hughes who wrote that Adams article

837
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen that you were talking about that we

838
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: read and that was like that was it, all of

839
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: a sudden, it was fully out there. Like he didn't

840
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: even get k Goto's dad's funeral. His dad died while

841
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: he was in prison. And he has like six grandchildren

842
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: at this point in his forties, which is remarkable, and

843
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 1: he's like not met these kids at this point.

844
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 2: No, so one thing that makes it like really kind

845
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: of gets across. How how just under the thumb of

846
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: the Detroit Police Department, this kid was still decades on.

847
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: A judge, Judge Dana Hathaway, I think she was the

848
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 2: original judge in his in his trial, she threw out

849
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: the life sentence as a judge, right, this wasn't something

850
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: she did in her leisure time. Like, she officially threw

851
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: out his life sentence, and prosecutors appealed and won. So

852
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: he had his life sentence like was upheld what thirty

853
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,479
Speaker 2: years later and Hathaway even went on the record saying

854
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 2: that this whole thing was very fishy. Finally, two years later,

855
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 2: he's granted parole. This is thirteen years after the last

856
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: person who was given a life sentence under that Michigan

857
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: six point fifty life for law had already been led out.

858
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: He was the only one, and his incarceration continued for

859
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 2: thirteen more years. He got out in twenty seventeen, age

860
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 2: forty seven. And you would think that would be the

861
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: end of the story, Chuck, But it was not.

862
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: Wasn't. No, he gets that parole and probably or at

863
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: least maybe had something to do with those movies that

864
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about the documentary in the Matthew McConaughey movie,

865
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: because certainly high profile enough to like bring his name

866
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: back into the forefront and then people start asking questions

867
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: and stuff like that at FED but he had to

868
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: stay or I guess, got recentence from the prison sentence

869
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: in Florida for that stolen car stuff. So he's back

870
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 1: in jail in Florida. He was, you know, bouncing back

871
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: and forth. Finally released from there in July twenty twenty.

872
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: I think he was fifty one at the time, and

873
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: was like, I need some money, I need some restitution,

874
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: and he sued the Feds of he didn't get anything.

875
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 2: No, the judge said the statute of limitations had run

876
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,240
Speaker 2: out in two thousand and six, and he's like, well,

877
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 2: I couldn't really say anything while I was in jail

878
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 2: because I would have gotten beaten up on a daily

879
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: basis by the guards. And they said, sorry, Paal, like

880
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 2: none of your your very legitimate suits against the federal

881
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 2: government are going to be able to be tried. So yeah.

882
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: Apparently he's working on his own documentary project about his

883
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 2: life too. With the hip hop director Hype Williams.

884
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I worked with Hype back in the day.

885
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, is he related to Freedom Williams?

886
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: I have no idea Bute was one of the biggest

887
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: names in the game back then. Oh yeah, I'll tell

888
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: you off, Mike.

889
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: Okay, I can't I can't wait to hear this. Okay, Well,

890
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 2: since I want to hurry up and end this episode

891
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: because I want to hear what Chuck has to say

892
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: about Hype Williams, I think it's time for listener mail.

893
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: Instead of listener mail, we're going to give issue one last,

894
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: well not one last, but another reminder about our voyage,

895
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: our Stuff at Sea voyage aboard the Valiant Lady of

896
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: Virgin Cruises, which will take place October second through seventh.

897
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 2: Where are we going.

898
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: We're going from New York City to Bermuda, and we're

899
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: gonna be doing our live show and we're gonna be

900
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: with our buddies from stuff they don't want you to

901
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: know and stuff Mom never told you, and we're gonna

902
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: be doing like other events on board. It's gonna be

903
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: a lot of fun.

904
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can go to Virgin Voyages dot com slash

905
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 2: Stuff at Sea and start booking passage today. That's what

906
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: they call it on the high seats Booking passage and

907
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: come float around with us for five days. It'll be fun,

908
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: that's right.

909
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: Can't wait, can't.

910
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 2: Wait, and we also can't wait to hear from you

911
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: via email, which you can send to Stuff podcast at

912
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio dot com.

913
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

914
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

915
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite show