WEBVTT - Ep. 342: Getting Busted for Touching Air 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is Me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.319 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:24.080 can't predict anything presented by First like creating proven versatile 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:28.040 hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:35.680 every hunt, first Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer. Holy sh 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.760 it is the Missouri Corner Crossers in the studio. Dude, 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.720 you're famous. Do people come out to the airport and 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.800 be like, it's the Missari corner Crosser. No, we're not. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:50.280 We're unrecognizable. No one knows who you are. No, huh. 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:52.320 This is the first like media thing you've been able 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.720 to do pretty much. I've talked about some people on 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.440 the phone. Oh yeah, but you haven't been. You haven't 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.520 been on one of these here digital radio programs, the first. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.640 It's awesome. Man. We also exclusive and we also have 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:10.080 Brandon Butler here, who's an Arson victim, also a Missourians. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.040 People come up with you in the airport and be like, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.280 are you an Arson victim? You would be surprised how 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.319 many people have heard this story. Well, it's a great story. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:21.080 Is it? Hell? Out of me? Man? Oh god, I'm 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:27.200 depressed After I heard the little summary this morning from Brandon. Yeah, 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:29.960 I shouldn't be it's not a good thing. I mean, no, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:31.960 it's horrible. And then did you see how nice this 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:34.880 place became, the place that the poachers burned down? How 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.920 nice it became after we were there last You think 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:39.840 he would have waited to invite us over when it 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.160 was all done up in fancy. I wanted you guys 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.840 do experience and when it was raw, rawn cold. Yeah, 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.480 it's a it's a tragic story, but there's like a 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.720 little bit of justice in the end. There is a first, 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.760 a couple of things. Cal you were telling a story 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.000 that was so good we wanted you to start over again. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.120 But it's an apropos for this podcast because it is 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:08.359 about government, hyperlocalized government, which is your homeowners association or 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.040 in my case, condo owners Association, of which I got 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.040 I got a hot tip for listeners. I bought a 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.240 house with the h o A, but I didn't really 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.600 know what it meant, Like I hadn't I hadn't bought 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.680 a bunch of houses. I bought one other house before, 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.360 and there wasn't anything like that. And then I heard 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.560 that there was one, and I didn't really think about it. 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.160 I know now that I would never ever, ever, ever, 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:33.440 ever again by a house with h o A. It's 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.280 like a group that makes it that you can't have 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.720 your boat, that you like, can't work on your boat 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.840 the way you'd like to work on it. Yeah, exactly, 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.400 And I think like the seasonal approach, like your friend 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.240 was saying it is A is a great one. Right. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.000 It's like, if you want to work on some junkie 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:55.320 old vehicle, that's totally fine. But if it comes to 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.120 be that there's four ft of snow on there and 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.960 then there's junk everywhere and you're obviously not working on it, 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.080 then it becomes not fine. Yeah. I can see that. 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.839 That seems reasonable to me. Yeah. It's like if you 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:12.160 have your uh, you know, let's just say, let's say 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.399 you're bringing your camper somewhere and the world's washed out 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:21.200 like that, they got to fix the road. I don't know, Yeah, 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.320 and you don't want to do Yeah. I can see 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:25.640 where where you're going with that. But here, here's the deal. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.680 What if you're you didn't have let's say you didn't 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.200 have an h A and your neighbor and you could 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.000 do it where you live and your neighbors like, you 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.120 know what, I'm going to open up a burger joint 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.280 at running out of my garage so now, and that 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.080 wouldn't be an h A issue, that'd be a zoning issue. Well, 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.320 I'm saying, let's just say you were outside of the 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:44.760 you're on the other side of that line that's right 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:48.480 behind your house, and you're outside of uh you know, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:50.840 city limits or whatever, and you were in a place 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.200 where you could do it. I understand you don't. You're 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.240 saying that I live in a place where it's zoned 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.760 for someone from my neighbor to open a burger restaurant. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:00.760 I'm saying you. I'm saying you, oh, I'm making up 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.120 a place where you could do that. There's no rules. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:07.160 Well I'll give I'll give you a good example and 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.720 no zoning. Okay. For for for instance, my h says, because 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.240 we are zone, obviously, you can't have a business. You 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.720 can't have a burger, you get zero business. I don't 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.320 know if it's a burger joint, but you can have 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.160 one's going to your house for burgers. You can have 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:25.000 have an auto repair shopdo okay, a welding shop. I'd 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.560 like that very much. I wish all my neighbors had 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:37.480 welding shops. Well, I actually I wish it was welding, welding, fabrication, electric, lumberyard, plumbing, 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:42.280 tackle stand. All of a sudden, your neighborhood wasn't nice 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.800 and quiet, and there was like five people coming to 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.159 visit whatever business it was. You'd be like, Oh cool, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.000 but what's what's having a camper or a boat in 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.240 your drive. He's trying to go extreme. He's trying to. 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.960 He's trying to because there's yeah, there's the extreme version 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.839 of h o A and extreme versions of any neighbors 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.000 that h o A s are wish. I wish that 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.880 my I wish my house was the only one that 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:09.720 looked nice because people be like, jeez, that's a nice 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:13.560 looking house. But your people got jumped out cards. And 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.520 then when I needed a part right now, I need 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:17.400 I need a piece of aluminum. I don't give a 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.640 ship two inch four inch wide. I needed a piece 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:25.040 of aluminum bar stock in Alaska, at our fishack in Alaska. 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.440 There's sure should know h o A. I could easily 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.200 find that by going to my neighbors and looking around 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:34.280 where they keep all their garbage. Here it doesn't work 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.599 that way. But if all my neighbors had junk collections, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:38.120 I'd go like, hey, do you mind if I dig 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:39.440 around like I'm trying to find out you know, you 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:41.960 big whatever. They'd be like, hey, bad, I got all 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:47.640 my junk here, don't cut yourself, tell you man. So yeah, 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:52.799 you know the Latin calvete m tour buyer be aware, 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.240 covers it all m It's like, oh yeah, that neighborhood. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.880 So to be realistic, what I would say is this. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.200 I would say that if like, well I start on 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.200 my point, I won't do it again. If I did, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.480 I would be like I would have an h like 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.480 I would make an h oo that said the h 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.480 o A rules are it's cool to have and that 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:19.679 list things I like? Right, campers, boat trailers like stuff 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.920 I like? And that was okay, Can someone live in 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.000 your camper full time in your yard? Depends what the 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:33.920 groove is and if I like it. So I'm swinging 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:37.039 in to the condo the other day. And it's work 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.240 live right. So they are businesses on the bottom level, 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:46.040 residences on top and what do they call them? Living works? Yeah? 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.760 Work live, live work yeah. Um, but they're duels owned 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.280 and and that doesn't make too much of a difference here. 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:59.360 But uh, buddy across the street works on wind generation, 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.720 power generation stuff, and and he's a major tinker. He's 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.440 got his garage open all the time. He's got this 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:10.800 little bulldog named Blue Cheese. And uh, what kind of 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:16.640 tinker is he gonna do? Woodworking? Lots of woodworking, lots 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:22.840 of moto stuff, lots of bicycle stuff, um, automotive whatever. 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.440 Like he is into it. And that's what's cool about 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.800 the neighborhood. Or it's slowly changing. But um weekends especially 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.760 like everybody's got their garage open, and and nobody really 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:38.080 wants to go bullshit with each other because they're too 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.280 busy tinkering. But you can always walk over and borrow 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.120 a tool that you need in between the open garages. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.239 Sounds like a great neighborhood. It's yeah, it's ideal. Well, 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:53.120 we've been getting this infestation of rock doves city pigeons 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.320 and they've shown up for the first time. They're crapping 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:01.920 on everything. I'm have been and I don't own an 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:07.040 air rifle anymore, but I was trying to solicit some 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.560 work from somebody who does. My boy will do it. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.920 But the problem is we just had to order him 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:18.240 a new magazine for his gammo this morning because according 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.760 to him, it broke. Then he lost it, but it 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:26.120 didn't matter because it was broke. We're going to pay 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.239 to fix something. This air rifle shooting. Is that okay? 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.560 With the h O A. It is? It is because 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.640 I'm the de facto president. I was. I was stupid 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:37.760 enough to join the board. You put a clause in there, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:42.120 and then everybody else moved away. So so there was 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.840 one board member right now, right now, which is not 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.840 up to the by laws. But here we are, nobody 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.679 wants to do it. I get it. Um, So I 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:55.520 come polling in yesterday. Blue Cheese, who's always a potential 0:08:55.559 --> 0:09:03.319 speed bump, come strutting out there, and uh, he smashes 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.320 this squab, this flightless pigeon on the on the side 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.520 of the sidewalk, like he catches it. He catches it, 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.679 which is not super likely, right, And so I'm looking 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.840 around and determined that the only place that the nest 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.360 could be is inside the barbecue of this neighbor who 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.560 I got, you know, flightless because of its youth, of 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.680 its youth understanding. Yeah, So it's a it's a you know, 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:30.559 city pigeons. So just get out of the nest and 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.320 the dog grabs it. And then you know, my dog 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.079 takes great interest in that, and she gets it from 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.240 the bulldogs who's super piste and there's just a slight 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.720 height difference there, and so he's jumping up at her. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.440 They're making all sorts of noise. She's trotting around super 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.360 proud with this burdener mouth, looking around. Then the other 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:52.640 neighbors show up, who are from away, will just say, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:57.160 from Steve's old neighborhood in Seattle, and they're watching all this, 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:05.120 and I'm I'm more concerned with the origination where this 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.440 bird came from. You got a hot clue now, so 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.800 now I can eliminate the nest. The situation that I 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.480 am with the bird that's in hand literally has already 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.080 been caught, and uh, my neighbor from behind me goes, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.640 can you just end it quick? And so kind of 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.000 without thinking, you know, I like call snort to hell. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.880 I'm looking for the nest. She hands the bird off. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:30.480 I grab it by the legs. I give it a 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:36.120 quick like like you know, like towel whack, and then 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:41.480 chucking in the dumpster, and you know, I'm still like 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.280 focused upwards and I turned around and there's just kind 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:49.560 of a scene, a quiet scene of like it was 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.439 too smooth, it was too effortless, right, Yeah, they wanted 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:59.960 more like contemplation and you to come over and be like, hey, 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.560 let's wrap our heads around that. Right. Yeah, that was intense, 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.480 but uh, it's not now how it works on the 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:12.760 main streets of bos Angeles, you know, Uh, Okay, we 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.320 got a lot to cover, so we're gonna go and 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.600 talk about why aren't two things here we're making We're 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.200 talking about Brax and Hicks. You guys know what you 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:22.240 guys got kids? Oh yeah, two girls, two girls, old 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.839 kids and now babies. Yeah, do you guys remember what 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:29.640 a Brax and Hicks contraction was. We're talking about how 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:34.199 there's only two women that listen and and um, I 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:35.920 don't know why we're talking about that, because we do 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.920 wonder why we're covering Bracks and Hits contractions. But but 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:45.160 we were wrong because three women wrote in we're off 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.480 by a lot, by a wide margin. Uh. They had 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.720 things to say about Bras and Hicks, So we're off. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.640 Someone wrote in, if only two women listen to the show, 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.320 I'm half of them. She went on to say, as 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:05.400 for Braxton Hicks contractions, they can happen for half of her, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.840 none of a pregnancy, and very in intensity for each person. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.640 And there's no way in hell a woman who's had 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:17.800 a labor contraction could confuse the two. Another person mentioned 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.360 that her husband had a cousin whose name was Braxton Hicks, 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:31.400 spelled differently Braxton Hicks. It's a great name. Uh, Karin, 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.520 got your talk about your blue belt crin jiu jitsu. 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.400 Thanks are putting that in the talking points, Yann not 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.720 necessary to talk about, but yeah, I gotta. I've been 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.600 doing jiu jitsu for a little bit over a year 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:50.640 with Crown Gracie and very unexpectedly gott a promotion the 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:54.640 other day. So so if I help me understand, let's 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.200 say I through a wild haymaker at you. Do you 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.400 feel that you would then beat my ass? Is it 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.480 useful like that? It's so jiu jitsu is a drunken 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:10.040 wild haymaker. Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a lot 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.360 of things, but part of it at his core is 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.920 self defense. So it doesn't matter if you're bigger than 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.520 me or stronger than me. If I've got technique down, 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.960 if I can feel myself in my body and feel 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:26.000 like what and see like what you're doing or about 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.600 to do, then I might just be able to get 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.959 you in a little pretzel. Okay, So let's say she's 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:37.480 going to subdue you. Yes, exactly. I can't do anything. 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.480 That's so so never mind the wild haymaker because it 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:47.200 doesn't work. But like let's say, Um Yanni, I was like, okay, now, Karna, 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.679 Yanni will fight right right, and there's no haymakers, just 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.680 like you guys square off to fight. Do you feel 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.200 that you would beat Yanni's ass? Because you know this 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:04.800 martial art? I would say I have that I did 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:13.280 about six weeks when I was um, and that stuff 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:17.160 sticks with you like a bicycle. So so the first 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.280 thing I would try to do is get you to 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.760 the ground, just like I'm asking it. It's a yes 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.000 or no question, would you be able to beat you? 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:29.760 And he's asking a fight? Really that it works that good? 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.760 It's on after this podcast. It's all technique. It's you know, 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:39.000 if you're a smaller person going against a much bigger, 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:43.280 stronger person who doesn't have the level of technique that 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:47.320 you do. You can, you can subdue them, but are 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:51.440 you relying on them also fighting by the same set 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.320 of rules like do you know what? Like okay, so 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:56.120 you're not you're not. It doesn't have to be that 0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:01.800 that there you're playing checkers, they're playing chess like there 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:08.680 doesn't matter. Oh so many factors come into play, but 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.040 there might be things that they don't. You know, someone 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:16.080 might like step to me and be really cocky about 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:23.160 their ability and not defend themselves in places where I 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.600 don't know, I might be able to do something. I 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.400 watched this play out in high school, like world enough now, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.200 Like we were there when UFC kind of started, and 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.240 we had this boddy named Jay who thought he was 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.080 like studying it and he was a martial artist. We 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.720 had this truck driver named Valente who was like six 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.520 four two twenty in high school. And Jay's like, sure 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.480 he can take him because he knows all these skills. 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.000 So we move all the furniture out of Valente's like 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.760 parents upstairs, and there's tile and Jay's like in his 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.280 gear or whatever, and Valente's and something like ripped up 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.200 a C d C T shirt and Jay comes running 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.400 at him. Valente lifts him up as high as he 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.280 can and slams him on the tile and the fight 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.320 was over. That was the big guy just overpowered him. 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.520 A friend x ex girlfriend from a long time ago 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:13.960 studied judo from from like a Judo family and very 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:20.680 very tiny lady and my friend who was Division one 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.920 linebacker whose claim to fame was he once tackled Barry 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.920 Sanders picked a fight who everybody knows was a very 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:36.520 difficult target to tackle, very difficult um. But he picked 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:40.800 a fight with with her and it was over shockingly fast. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.240 She will up and all she said was, they always 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.480 tried to pick you up. I thought you said yeah, No, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.360 there's no I don't think there's a lot of hyahs 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.400 and Judo Judo is like, yeah, is getting you to 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.320 the ground is very explosive, So that's not surprised. Her 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.800 takeaway is big guys always try to pick up smaller 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.160 people and throw them down. I don't know, but she's 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:08.639 just like, yeah, they always try to pick you up. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.720 I couldn't really see it because they're kind of wrapped up, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:20.439 but he was and was like okay, okay, okay, okay. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.480 So it turned turned the conversation around real fast. Okay, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.280 last thing Yanni wanted to plug. I haven't downloaded yet, 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.919 but Bogaine loves it. Oh, it's so cool. Everything in 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:38.080 this room should get it. It's free. It's called the 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.840 Merlin Bird. I D by the corn L Lab. Everything 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.320 about everything good about birds is from the Cornell or 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.240 not absolutely. Yeah. Oh I just opened it and says 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:59.040 your five day grace period is over. Worth paying whatever 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.159 they're going to charge. What do they want to listen? 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.040 I don't know. I'm not gonna go in and figure 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.679 that out right now. What you're gonna pay it? Yeah, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.040 because all my recent bear hunt you can. They have 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.560 a sound I D so you can just hit the 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.399 microphone button while you're sitting there at first light and 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.800 all the birds are going off, and it just starts running. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.480 It just starts showing up every bird. There's a whole 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:23.960 it'll be like the whole list will be like ten birds, 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.320 and then as each one's going off, it'll highlight it. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.240 So you're just sitting there watching it, and all of 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.439 a sudden, the robin highlights it goes away, Then the 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.520 chipping sparrow highlights it goes away. Then the Mountain chickadee highlights, 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.800 then the Redbreast of Nuthatch highlights. Do you gotta have 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.920 service for it to work? You pre download like sections 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.440 of the United States and see. Man, you know that's 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:50.480 good to know, because what's daunting is we're gonna, um, 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.320 we keep a good list at our house, but we're 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.840 gonna start doing a list at our little property. And 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.480 it's just daunting because it's like starting from scratch. And 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.959 this is so easy because it's not all these not 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.560 all the normal ones that you're accustomed to because your 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.800 higher elevation to kind of habitat time. So I was 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.440 actually doing in reverse now. I was sitting there listening 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.760 to him, going oh, that's that bird, and I could 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.640 see the picture on my app and then I could 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.280 glass around and look at the little birds flooding around 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.720 and find them and go, oh, there is the redbreast 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.359 and Nuthatch's great. Okay, do your last little promotion. I 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.399 want everybody go and watch the brand new six episodes 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.719 of my show called On the Hunt on me meters 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.320 YouTube channel. Brodie, have you washed them all? How many 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.879 have you watched? Still catching up? Who's watching? Who's watched? 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.439 One in this room. I watched one nice. Would you 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.520 think Turkey's with room app it's fun like that. Yeah, 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.280 I'd say watch more based off of that. Okay, good, 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:55.199 thank you, cal Sorry, we gotta tech. We got an 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.159 email today said that that was the finest thing that 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.119 this company has ever produced. Did you see that? You know, 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.119 I did see that. It's very nice to that person 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.960 to say that. Is that an email peer reviewed? It 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:13.720 was my mother. She's been a great supporter over the years. Okay, 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.920 we're gonna get into Law and Justice. Que the song Philip, 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.880 now here's the thing to make this legal. Everybody needs 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:25.240 to comment on it because it's criticism hit it gentire 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:30.080 is a little twangy. My opinion, it's a great too. 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.600 That's my comment. I've never watched this show. No, it's 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:49.240 not a show. Oh there he's singing, singing. He just said, 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.200 law me all right, turn off. It's the Law and 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:56.400 Justice episode. Who's sang that? It's this dude from He's 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.480 kind of like a He was just kind of fixture 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.639 around Austin, Texas. Had a lot of mental problems, had 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.880 a lot of substance abuse problems. But now and then 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.800 pull it together and do these albums and um. He 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.560 then later did an album with an outfit called Okerville 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.359 rigor Ockerville River out of Austin and they kind of 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.520 brought a lot of his music to life. But he's 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.560 had a lot of uh, he was troubled individual. Is 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.520 that how you say it? Okkerville Okerville? Yeah, it's from 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:29.520 a Russian novel. No ways, God, that didn't stick as 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.400 a kid. All right, Brandon, Ready, Okay, we got two 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:34.080 major things to cover because we're gonna we're gonna do 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.000 a big follow up. Well, these are both stories, the 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:41.480 Missouri Corner Crossers I guess felt called Wyoming corner Crossers 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.720 whatever the hell the Wyoming corner Crosses from Missouri we've 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.320 reported on quite heavily, and then we reported on Brandon 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:51.800 Butler's justice saga quite heavily. And now we're gonna do 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:56.800 a recap on both with everybody in the room. So 0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:59.480 if you can give us a, um, where we last 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.720 left off. I think where we last left off was 0:22:02.960 --> 0:22:06.360 the suspect was in custody. No, no, no, no recap 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.600 the story or recap the whole thing. Are you sitting 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:11.639 there you hear a bunch of gunshots? Yeah? So I 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:13.240 gotta go back a little bit further than that and 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.720 talk about how I even got there. Um, there was 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.800 a camp called Camp Zoe that fluent girls from St. 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.520 Louis would go to in the Ozarks. Fluent or affluent, affluent, 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.600 and uh. The governor at the time of Missouri was 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.640 Jay Nixon, and his mom had been a camper at 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.560 this camp and then she went on to become a 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:38.840 counselor at this camp. This is in Shannon County, Missouri, 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.840 just north of Eminence, maybe fifteen twenty miles at most. 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:48.720 And the governor always had, you know, he had affinity 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.080 for this property. It was beautiful sinking creek. You guys 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.080 saw sinking creek flows through it. And eventually it got 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.720 bought and turned into a music venue and it was 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:00.320 called schwag Stock. That was a music It became, you 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.320 know a place where hippies would gather and swim naked 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.359 in the creed. Was it bigger or this is just 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.560 on year. This is just down the road where the 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:12.760 state park is where we went and the general the 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.440 general area and hippies in the creek. Then it became 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.879 worse than that, you know, the weed turned into heavier 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:21.920 drugs and ultimately the d e A raided this property. 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.600 In two thousand and ten, it went up for auction 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.160 and the state bought it. The governor had, you're into 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:33.639 the distinction now between hippies crazy as hippies. Yeah, I 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.600 don't have hippies and meth heads in the same category. 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:39.879 Like it went was that kind of transition, not even crazy. 0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:42.119 It went from like you know, smoking weed in the 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.639 creek to too hard drugs. And at that point the 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.520 d A guess had enough and they came in raided 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.600 the property, confiscated it for like back taxes and others, 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:54.840 and then the state bought it in an open auction. 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:58.120 They ended up paying six dollars it's a little over 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:00.399 three d That's how the state park came into be there, 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:02.520 and it was the governor's vision. He had like a 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:06.240 year left and he just went all out on building 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:09.440 this property, and it's the premier state park in the 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:11.480 state of Missouri. Now. They put like sixty one million 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.639 dollars into it. Have you guys been to Echo Bluff. 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:17.320 I was just gonna ask you if that's what it 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:18.879 was it is, if you was trying to look up 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:22.320 I've been buy it It's pretty, isn't it. It's a 0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.040 beautiful state park and absolute point of pride for the 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:30.000 state of Missouri. But because of this kind of contingent 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:33.480 of folks, a very small contingent, I have to be 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:35.240 careful because I guess last time I got in trouble 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:38.600 because I got generalized and saying like it's the whole area. 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.680 A guy getting a lot of trouble. He's from England. Yeah, man, 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.240 he got a lot of heat. I'm talking about very 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.040 a very small group of people that lived like back 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.920 in the woods, like in these hollers, that like this 0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:54.800 outlaw way of life that they've been conducting for generations, 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:57.840 where like rules and law simply don't matter. But the 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:00.880 majority of people down there are incredible people, Like they're 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:04.280 just salt of the earth, hard working, love the outdoors. 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.959 But it's like they got a hide from just like 0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:10.440 bully mentality. They can't speak up for good, they can't 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:14.320 speak up for like justice, because if they do, then 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:17.280 they're gonna face like ramifications. But back to the park. 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:19.480 So the governor puts all this money into the park. 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.399 At the time, I'm running the Conservation Federation, which is 0:25:22.400 --> 0:25:26.480 like the state's largest conservation nonprofit. It's affiliated to the 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:31.240 National Wildlife Federation, and the governor asks me to kind 0:25:31.280 --> 0:25:35.159 of help lead pr issues, like make people see the 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:38.240 benefits of this part coming into this part of the state. 0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:42.600 So I'm doing that, and while I'm there, like exploring 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.040 this property, I finally decide, this is it. Like I've 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:47.719 been waiting my whole life to have a place like 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:50.080 my own property, in my own camp. You know, my 0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:52.480 first camp was like a g I Joe sleeping bag 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:54.439 under the stairs of my parents basement. And then in 0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:56.760 college you became a camper, and like the dream of 0:25:56.800 --> 0:26:00.359 just having a cabin like that was always the dream. 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:02.080 So now I'm like, this is it. I'm gonna buy 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.280 a place down here. Through a series of like fortunate events, 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:08.160 I find this forty acres real close to the park 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:12.000 on the creek, surrounded by public land, and I get 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:16.600 it bought, and now I show up in my conservation 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:20.719 truck like wrapped with like conservation on it. I mean, man, 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:23.080 I grew up not too far down the road from 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:25.639 you in northwest Indiana, did a lot of working like 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:28.640 Gary and and some really rough places as a kid. 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:31.720 And now I think about it in a sense, like 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:33.840 like when I reflect on the decision I made, it 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:35.880 would be like going into Gary and building a mansion 0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:38.800 and expecting like you're just gonna be friends with all 0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:41.480 your neighbors. You know, like everything's gonna be fine, you know, 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:45.000 even if you're not trying to change them. You just 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:53.240 being there somehow like shifts this mentality you conservation, following 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:57.480 the rules, and uh so I go about it, and 0:26:57.520 --> 0:27:01.760 you know, but I tried to, you know, immediately do well. 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:04.600 I went to Sam's Club and bought those tins of 0:27:04.600 --> 0:27:07.000 popcorn and I took him to everybody's house on the 0:27:07.040 --> 0:27:10.920 road for Christmas into three you got like cheese and 0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:13.400 caramel and all that. So like I'm I took those 0:27:13.440 --> 0:27:15.840 out and now I'm thinking, you know, now these people 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:17.760 are like, who is this dude, Like that's coming to 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:20.000 our house with a tin of popcorn to like introduce himself. 0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:23.720 But ultimately that was like my introduction to these folks 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:26.440 and my like please don't burn my house down, like offering, 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:29.959 and things were good for a while. I hired all 0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:33.320 local contractors. Uh you know, it was just a real 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:35.520 rough piece of ground. I brought in a guy with 0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:38.760 a bulldozer, he cleaned up a couple of acres. There 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:40.720 was an old cabin there. I took it apart, piece 0:27:40.720 --> 0:27:43.280 by piece so I could repurpose the materials, Like the 0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:45.760 old roof became the ceiling in the new cabin, the 0:27:45.880 --> 0:27:49.560 rafters became bookshelves, just a lot of that. I took 0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:53.080 this old potato sack that was insulation in the old cabin, 0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:55.040 and I framed it because it was, you know, a 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:57.840 hundred years old installation. It was cool, so ship like 0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:01.359 that was just what made that place spout show. And 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:03.680 then we started hunting there, and I guess maybe they 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:06.480 had a few a few people kind of had felt 0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:09.639 that I was encroaching on their public land. You know 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:11.639 how that goes, Right, they've been hunting there for a while, 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.600 somebody else comes in, start hunting the same public land, 0:28:14.600 --> 0:28:17.560 and I'm bringing guys down because you got a parcel, 0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:20.080 but your parcels by public land. And my parcel was 0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:23.120 surrounded on three sides by a parcel of public land 0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:27.040 that's like sixty contiguous acres. And there was probably about 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:30.080 three or four thousand acres behind my house before you 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.720 got to a road. Uh that I really started getting 0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:36.160 to know. It's where yeh, it's killed his turkey. Well 0:28:36.200 --> 0:28:39.880 you too, you killed yours there too, well, And I 0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:42.800 found a crippled up turkey that I killed. I actually 0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:48.040 jumped it. That was a good story. That's one of 0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:51.320 my proudest most So it's going well, it's going well 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:55.800 for a while. That park comes in. The locals start 0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:58.600 working at the park. You know, there's jobs now, like 0:28:58.600 --> 0:29:02.480 a hundred people are employed there, and and like the 0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:05.640 local sentiment starts getting better for the park, but it 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:07.440 is bringing a lot of people in there. And and 0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:10.160 then there's that group that has like the frustration for 0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:14.200 the fact that this area is becoming more exposed, like 0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:17.280 more people know about it, more people are visiting, and 0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:21.720 I assume there's just like a deep seated resentment towards that. 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:23.840 And if you go back a step further, there's just 0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:26.520 a really deep seated resentment towards government by a lot 0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:29.840 of these people in general. Because the national park there, 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:32.760 which is called the Ozark National Scenic Riverways, it's a 0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:35.680 hundred and thirty five miles of river corridor consisting of 0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:38.880 the Current River and the Jack's Fork River, with acres 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:42.280 of public land along those rivers. Now a lot of 0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:44.560 it was taken by imminent domain back in like the 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:48.200 fifties and sixties to become that park. Everybody was paid, 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:53.440 everybody was you know, nobody's land was stolen. But that's 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:56.160 the sentiment by a few people is you know, the 0:29:56.280 --> 0:29:59.440 land was stolen from us. Well no, you know, a 0:29:59.560 --> 0:30:03.600 check has past. But there's like but I mean, yeah, 0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:06.240 there's people that held out and and that that's a 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:10.320 common story. And like it's like there's resentment for sure, 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:13.040 and you have your farm being taken by eminent domain 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:15.280 for a park. You cannot expect to be like, oh, 0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:17.120 you have no right to be mad. We gave you 0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:19.360 the money. And it's different. Way I think about it 0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:22.320 is like if my grandpa said something, it was gospel, 0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:25.920 you know. And now you've got this generational anger that 0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:28.760 comes from like the people who actually lost the property 0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:31.920 to the two or three generations after that are now 0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:35.200 like carrying that flame that are like, you know, I'm 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.560 gonna find some way to right this wrong because it's 0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:51.480 like our families heritage. So there there is like this 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:56.360 real deep resentment towards government in that area. And and 0:30:56.400 --> 0:30:57.880 now they come in and put this park in and 0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:00.920 start bringing people and then people like me show up 0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:04.880 by property and you know, want rules to be followed, 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:08.120 like don't shoot here at night with spotlights. Uh, don't 0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:11.320 run your dogs illegally on my property. Things that are 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:16.920 just pretty basic. But we're getting along fine until maybe 0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:21.080 three years in and my friend Eric is hunting a 0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:24.480 tree stand along the creek and there's this little seven 0:31:24.480 --> 0:31:26.960 point book out in the field in front of them, 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:31.680 and a truck pulls up at the opening to this field, 0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:35.320 jumps out, two guys jump out, and they start firing 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.640 on this book. They wound it not guns season, it 0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.160 was guns season. They do most of their potent. I'll 0:31:41.160 --> 0:31:43.400 give them that. Most of the poaching actually does take 0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:46.760 place during the rifle season. So they wound this book. 0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:50.880 It runs up onto my property, beds up, they go 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:53.720 switch vehicles. I guess they got like a shooting vehicle 0:31:53.760 --> 0:31:55.360 and a hauling vehicle, so they had to go get 0:31:55.400 --> 0:32:01.040 the pick up. Yeah, multifaceted poaching operation. So then they 0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:05.160 come barreling across the field in the hall and rig 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:08.480 jumped the buck up and it runs right at my 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:11.800 buddy who's sitting on a power line cut at the creek, 0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:15.640 full blaze orange and they just start unloading on it again. 0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:19.000 Now bullets are like whizzing past my buddy's tree stand 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:22.240 and he's screaming at him, and they're now they're like, 0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:24.480 oh ship, you know, they're scared that they they're shooting 0:32:24.520 --> 0:32:25.920 at this guy. So they come up and then they 0:32:25.920 --> 0:32:29.200 explained to him that it's his fault because he didn't 0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:32.160 put a blaze orange marker at the opening of the 0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:34.880 field so they would know not to shoot from the road. 0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:38.360 So at that point, like, I don't call the law. 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:42.680 I'm still like the executive director of this organization constantly 0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:45.440 promoting like anti poaching campaigns and doing the right thing, 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:49.520 and in that instance, I didn't, you know, and that 0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:52.680 never sat right with me. I wanted to keep the peace, 0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:54.880 so I went and talked to the people and tried 0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:58.840 to like smooth it over like good, like neighborly. And 0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:01.400 it did get smoothed over with some of the like 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.800 powers that be, some of the more like patriarchal type 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:07.400 in that area. But the guy who did it, he 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:10.600 just went around telling stories and making up lies and 0:33:10.600 --> 0:33:14.120 and that started breeding this kind of like anti sentiment 0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:17.880 towards me in a small like contingent crowd. But we 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:22.720 lived with it for years until we got to gun 0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:28.640 season of two thousand and it was Sunday night and 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:31.400 me and my buddy Nathan, everybody calls him Shags, My 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:34.600 cousin Derek, and my buddy paddled down like we're sitting 0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:38.960 around this campfire and a truck comes across. Remember how 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:41.280 we couldn't come across the creek, so to get into 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:43.200 this property you had to like drive on a an 0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:46.400 underwater bridge, like we call him Arkansas bridges because they 0:33:46.400 --> 0:33:49.840 actually build them underwater. And uh, you come across this 0:33:50.000 --> 0:33:53.120 Arkansas bridge and when it's flooded, you've got to come 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:55.760 through the forest. And I took you guys in through 0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:59.160 the forest. The bridge is all flooded out, but somebody 0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:01.920 comes across any ways, we couldn't believe that they were 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:04.920 crossing it. This truck pulls in and this is like 0:34:05.000 --> 0:34:08.520 eight thirty, so it's three hours, three hours after dark. 0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:11.640 It pulls into this field, like right at the base 0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:14.600 of my property where the old man who had owned 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:16.920 it died like two weeks before. And I've been over 0:34:16.960 --> 0:34:20.560 there that day and the power line people were there, 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:23.640 and I thought that the power line people had recognized 0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:26.960 that this was now a vacant property and they were 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:30.160 coming in there to poach at night. So when his 0:34:30.239 --> 0:34:32.520 truck pulls into the field, they throw on like an 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.720 led light bar and we can see the muzzle flashes 0:34:35.760 --> 0:34:38.200 before we can hear the shots. And at that point 0:34:38.280 --> 0:34:41.080 I just jump in my side by side and take 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:44.360 off to try to confront them. My buddies come running 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:48.800 after me. The truck evades and gets out of the holler, 0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:51.920 and that I was like, that's it. I'm this is 0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:55.359 this is the line in the sand. So I call 0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:57.960 the game wardens who I know, we call him conservation 0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:01.600 officers and and m hurry and they come out. But 0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:03.880 that morning we went looking for the truck and we 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:06.480 found it before the agent got there, and I knew 0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:08.600 who had belonged to at that point, and it it 0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:12.120 was like, this is gonna be serious if I crossed 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:15.279 this line. So they actually come out and they they 0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:17.319 reiterate that to me. They're like, you know who this 0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:19.880 belongs to, and I'm like yeah, and they're like, what 0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:21.680 are you gonna do? I was like, I can't not 0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:24.160 do it, Like it's never sat right with me that 0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:26.080 I didn't in the first time, like I'm the guy 0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:28.319 telling other people to do this, Like I gotta do 0:35:28.360 --> 0:35:31.000 it at this point. So I turned him in and 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:34.280 it ended up being three women. There was a younger 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:37.040 lady who I guess had come down to hunt and 0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:39.040 didn't get a deer, and they were like, oh, well, 0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:41.080 we'll get you a deer. They went out to get 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:43.920 a deer and they all three. I was in the courtroom. 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:46.840 They all ended up pleading guilty. You know, there's no 0:35:47.040 --> 0:35:49.360 reason to say their names at this point or anything, 0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:52.640 but they you know, they got multiple violations and each 0:35:52.840 --> 0:35:55.840 about a thousand dollars and fines and and pled guilty 0:35:55.880 --> 0:36:01.840 to that. But the suspect uh in burning down my cabin. 0:36:02.160 --> 0:36:05.960 It's like one of those women's boyfriend's son who's been 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:08.440 like in and out of prison all this time, and 0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:12.360 now he's back in prison. So that was like November, 0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.040 and it was January four when this dude came and 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:19.160 burned your What was the date he burned on your place? 0:36:19.200 --> 0:36:21.399 It was at like ten o'clock at night on January four. 0:36:22.640 --> 0:36:25.160 Got trio cam. Yeah, so I set out and I 0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:27.359 told that before too, you know, I I thought I'll 0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:29.920 set some trail cameras out where they'll think these are 0:36:29.960 --> 0:36:33.520 the cameras that I'm using to protect the property. And 0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:35.719 then I took the real cameras and hit them much 0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:38.360 further back in the woods and had like good shots 0:36:38.360 --> 0:36:40.640 of them. So I got pictures of the dude like 0:36:40.680 --> 0:36:43.440 on the porch, walking up to the cabin carrying a 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:45.800 rifle and a bottle and that's obviously like a bottle 0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:50.200 of accelerant. And then I've got a picture of him leaving, uh, 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:53.640 leaving the property with fire coming out of the far 0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:56.319 back window. And then I got a thirty second time 0:36:56.400 --> 0:36:59.520 lapse of it burning for the next hour until the 0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:02.200 fierty part gets there. And then there's actually a picture 0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:05.520 in me like when I approach that the trail cam caught. 0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:08.880 But yeah, they actually pulled the chips on the dummy cameras, 0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:13.160 thinking like this idiot, you put these cameras right where 0:37:13.160 --> 0:37:15.480 we can see him, you know. So the trap worked, 0:37:16.000 --> 0:37:19.080 and uh so I got I got the photos, and 0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:21.680 I went I went to court like multiple times, and 0:37:22.120 --> 0:37:26.120 it was a very interesting experience, you know. And you 0:37:26.160 --> 0:37:28.920 can show the photos of this dude from his Facebook 0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:32.360 and he's wearing like the same mossy oak sweatshirt and 0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:36.160 that the pictures to me are very clear, like I 0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:38.799 know who it is. But in a court of law 0:37:39.520 --> 0:37:42.440 in a county of eight thousand people, where four thousand 0:37:42.480 --> 0:37:45.200 of them are probably related, like, is it enough evidence 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:48.680 is demonstrate some doubt? Right? So they get a lawyer 0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:52.120 for this guy and they're talking about this sweatshirt in 0:37:52.160 --> 0:37:54.680 this court case and Shags is there with me in 0:37:54.800 --> 0:37:58.040 the courtroom and the sweatshirt that everybody in that county has. 0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:01.120 So that's the lawyer's point, right, And he goes to 0:38:01.239 --> 0:38:04.279 the to the the deputy that's on the stand at 0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:08.759 the time, they're like, what about the sweatshirt and he's like, well, yeah, 0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:11.480 it's very clear sweatshirt. And he goes, could that be 0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:14.279 a sweatshirt that everybody in this county has? Do you 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:17.959 yourself phone that sweatshirt? No? I do not, says says 0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:23.400 the uh county policeman. No I do not, because you 0:38:23.520 --> 0:38:27.319 do not? Well, do you have a massio cat? No 0:38:27.480 --> 0:38:31.440 I do not. He goes, well, do you know people 0:38:31.480 --> 0:38:35.600 in your family that do? No? I do not. He says, 0:38:35.800 --> 0:38:38.919 well what do you do? He goes, we're that other? 0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:41.239 What's that other? One, and somebody in the back of 0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:48.759 the courtroom yells real Tree court. Yes, in court, and 0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:51.200 the whole like now the courtrooms laughing like we're a 0:38:51.239 --> 0:38:56.080 real Tree family, which makes total saying oh yeah. Like 0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:59.879 so it's a long story short. We've been going through 0:38:59.880 --> 0:39:02.440 the and if you would have wanted to take that logic, 0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:05.200 you could have been like they sold eleven thousand units 0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:09.480 of that, so you know, to me, it's it's very clear. 0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:15.480 But what had happened is three other cabins and I'm 0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:18.879 aware of were burned down within twelve months of mine, 0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:23.560 prior to mine, and one sense mine and a United 0:39:23.640 --> 0:39:27.960 States federal property, the Round Spring Rangers Station, which we'll 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:31.239 get to, but nobody had been told was torched, and 0:39:31.239 --> 0:39:33.759 that's in retaliate. The story just keeps going, man like, 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:38.000 so I start making a stink about it, like most 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:39.719 people just took it like there's nothing they can do. 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:42.040 They show up their cabins burned down, there's no evidence, 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:44.120 there's no cameras, there's no nothing. Well, I know who 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:47.640 did it, and I go to the Lieutenant governor, sit 0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:50.520 right down in his office. I called my congresswoman, like 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:54.160 I just immediately communicating with the head of the Department 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:58.520 of Conservation Law Enforcement, and talking to the director, I 0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:01.480 get one person removed from the FBI. Like, I just 0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:03.480 went as deep as I could go, as fast as 0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:06.239 I could do it. And the cabin was burned on 0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:09.560 January five, and that dude was rested on January fifteenth, 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:11.240 and he hasn't been out of jail a day since 0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:16.799 and he's still still not been charged with mine. The 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:19.920 beauty is is when he had broken into another cabin, 0:40:20.520 --> 0:40:24.600 he left his parole papers behind. I had to keep 0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:28.319 him someplace dry, right, and he wanted to keep those safe, uh, 0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:31.600 and and had committed back that sending explain it to 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:34.520 me again. So he was squatting in some dudes cabin 0:40:34.840 --> 0:40:37.600 and was you know, I had his parole papers and 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:40.279 left him on the table. So that's how they knew 0:40:40.320 --> 0:40:43.440 he was there. And ultimately he's pled guilty to this charge. 0:40:43.880 --> 0:40:46.919 Like I'm trying to understand, Like, well, when you think 0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:51.560 a point just not like he just forgot his possessions. 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:54.680 Would usually a place you probably take a picture of 0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:58.520 your kids, right, you know, you gotta have some documentation 0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:02.280 to get around in the world. So he had stolen 0:41:02.360 --> 0:41:05.040 some stuff like a four wheeler and a generator. And 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:09.440 but the real, like the part that like is crazy 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.960 is like he had these outstanding felonies hanging over him 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:16.319 since two thousand and sixteen, and nobody triggered him. Like 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:19.160 he was going to like probation meetings and they're like, oh, yeah, 0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:21.360 like you've got two felonies that we could ring you 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.200 up on, but you know, keep your nose clean and 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:26.400 what sorts of felonies. It was a Class CY felony 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:30.080 for like theft, and I don't I don't know exactly, 0:41:30.120 --> 0:41:32.120 I don't have to go into that case net and 0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:36.000 look it up. But but ultimately stealing that four wheeler 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:40.240 and and uh generator or whatever that constitutes a Class 0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:44.360 C felony, and burning my entire house down is a 0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:48.440 Class D felony. So the way like burning your house, everything, 0:41:48.480 --> 0:41:51.560 everything into the ground with an accelerant because there was 0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:55.600 no yeah, like no potential for physical harm to a 0:41:55.680 --> 0:41:58.399 human supposedly is what dropped the charge. But the dude 0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:01.760 carrying a rifle and how does he know your buddy's 0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:04.320 not staying, My kids weren't sleeping in a room upstairs. 0:42:04.400 --> 0:42:06.520 You understand, like what like what does that go by 0:42:06.600 --> 0:42:08.520 I don't know. I don't like two guys go to 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:10.839 stay in your cabin, one of them runs into town 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:13.600 to get a couple of cool ones. There's no car there, right, 0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:15.960 I don't get like what it doesn't make sense to me. 0:42:16.000 --> 0:42:18.600 I don't either. If you burn a large structure with 0:42:18.719 --> 0:42:21.759 multiple bedrooms down, I don't think you could have should 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:23.719 be allowed to be like I knew no one was there. 0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:25.680 How did you know when no one was there? I agree? 0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:29.880 But anyways, the charges of stealing the fore wheeler and 0:42:29.920 --> 0:42:34.400 the generator were higher, and he's since pled guilty to those. 0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:39.040 It's worse to steal the generator and a quad runner 0:42:39.400 --> 0:42:41.919 than it is to burn someone's house to the ground, 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:46.040 must be, at least in this case. But if he 0:42:46.040 --> 0:42:48.560 would have gotten charged on both, I was told that 0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:52.480 those sentences could be run concurrently. So honestly, you know, 0:42:52.520 --> 0:42:54.799 other than me being able to have the satisfaction of 0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:57.920 saying that like he did it for sure, you know, 0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:00.360 legally I could say that right now, I have to say, like, 0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:05.560 he's a suspect, but he's in prison. It's a five 0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:09.160 year stints. Yeah, when he's out, can you get him 0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:12.120 after for Bernard cavan down, there's like three years. I 0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:14.920 think we have three years, and and that's why, you know, 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:18.160 like there's still an ongoing case. I actually called the 0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:21.640 prosecutor and I got a call back from the agent 0:43:21.719 --> 0:43:23.640 and he was like, this is what you shouldn't say, 0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:26.160 this is what you you know you can say, but 0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:29.279 be very clear that he's a suspect because it's an 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:31.839 ongoing investigation. So are you are you breaking any rules 0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:33.640 right now by talking to us and saying what you're saying. 0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:36.399 I don't know. I don't think so, like that's all 0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:39.160 out there. But aren't there multiple suspects because things just 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:41.479 keep getting burned down? Or is this you're just saying, 0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:44.879 we're just talking like about my place. So so then 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:47.799 what I did is I went, you know, I'm very 0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:50.560 friendly with the Department of Conservation. You know Sarah Parker 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:54.120 Pauli our directors, like a personal mentor of mine. I 0:43:54.120 --> 0:43:57.720 think she's one of the most outstanding conservationists in the country. 0:43:57.719 --> 0:43:59.520 And but I went to and I said, look, you 0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:02.680 got a for two acres of public land in this county. 0:44:02.840 --> 0:44:06.880 It's obviously known as one of these places where like 0:44:06.960 --> 0:44:10.319 infringements happened, but we divide up our agents essentially two 0:44:10.360 --> 0:44:13.000 by two by two. We don't need the same number 0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:16.440 of conservation agents in downtown St. Louis as we need 0:44:16.480 --> 0:44:18.720 in Shannon County. So at what point are we gonna 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:22.480 like ramp up enforcement down here? And boy, ramp it 0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:26.120 up they did. They were flying helicopters over these camps 0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:28.759 and it was hilarious, you know, like they started a 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:32.320 Facebook like page to fight back, to get a petition 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:34.759 so they would be left alone. They're gonna get a 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:36.640 petition done that they were going to give to the 0:44:36.680 --> 0:44:39.719 sheriff so law enforcement would leave them alone while they 0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:43.160 were conducting their poaching. I don't know, it went it 0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:45.080 went away after a while, but they were like so 0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:47.759 mad that like helicopters were like coming and sitting over 0:44:47.800 --> 0:44:50.120 the top of them while they were running their dogs illegally. 0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:53.560 So what they do is that they released these dogs. 0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:56.879 And you know, I'm the first one to sit here 0:44:56.880 --> 0:44:58.880 and say, like what you're doing with mingus is awesome, 0:44:58.960 --> 0:45:01.400 like having hounds and with hounds and all of it, 0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:03.840 you know, I love it all, but in this sense, 0:45:04.000 --> 0:45:07.120 in this instance, it's illegal, and it's illegal because they're 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:10.480 running them on everybody else's private property. They're shooting every 0:45:10.520 --> 0:45:13.279 day that they can shoot. It's taken this property that 0:45:13.320 --> 0:45:16.440 I developed in my dream and essentially ruining it. As 0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:19.160 like hound after hound after hound comes through my forty 0:45:19.200 --> 0:45:23.320 acres on opening day of deer season. And the worst 0:45:23.320 --> 0:45:25.960 part of it is is they'll run the dogs towards 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:28.879 the river, and the deer will get in the river, 0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:31.880 and then they'll they'll watch on their GPS as to 0:45:31.920 --> 0:45:33.879 where these deer are gonna cross or where the dogs 0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:36.280 are gonna cross the deer, and they'll run a jetboat 0:45:36.320 --> 0:45:38.759 up there and and shoot the deer like as it's 0:45:38.760 --> 0:45:41.960 trying to get across the river. So it's you know, 0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:44.520 it's just this ongoing battle, and they like they make 0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.520 t shirts for it, like it's our tradition or whatever. 0:45:47.600 --> 0:45:49.840 And the hound hunting is illegal there. Yeah, how long 0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:58.040 has it been illegal for forever? Hunting the deer's illegal, Yeah, 0:45:58.080 --> 0:46:01.920 I mean coyote hunt you can yeah by saying how, 0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:06.120 I mean like how running and it's a it's a 0:46:06.400 --> 0:46:09.200 just an ongoing battle. That's even more evidence than Missouri 0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:13.359 is the North. That's a good point. Remember I sent 0:46:13.400 --> 0:46:15.880 you that quote that one time about Missouri. You know 0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:20.600 that it's just kind of its own place. Um, so 0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:24.680 you know that that was a big issue. Was like 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:29.359 the hounds that just continuously run through and and then 0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:32.640 they get this like uh effort to try to curb 0:46:32.680 --> 0:46:36.640 it this year, and and some dude in retaliation goes 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:39.319 and burns down the Round Spring Ranger Station, like this 0:46:39.560 --> 0:46:43.960 very historic building that had all the records of you know, 0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:47.640 the area and the river ways. And and they got 0:46:47.760 --> 0:46:49.960 him too, like he's in jail now, and was he 0:46:50.000 --> 0:46:54.480 a local? Yeah? Yeah yeah? Was he a foulon? Yeah? 0:46:55.239 --> 0:46:56.520 I mean, dude, we should have you should have a 0:46:56.560 --> 0:46:58.880 poster of him in here. It would fit with your motif, 0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:02.280 like have a picture, yeah, creek, we get that picture. 0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:07.879 Yeah he was. He was quickly apprehended and brought to justice. 0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:10.080 That was a guy that has that distinctly, Matthew looked 0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:16.160 to him. He's messed up, man, that's him. Yeah, burned 0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:18.640 down the station there. They stole a truck too, and 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:20.759 that was like outside of their m O. Like it's 0:47:20.800 --> 0:47:24.279 normally not theft normally, it's just like because you don't 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:26.680 get in that much trouble as long as you don't 0:47:26.680 --> 0:47:31.120 steal a generator. Uh, And then right after that, some 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:33.440 other guy came in out of a small town like 0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:36.120 kind of in between where I live and this, and 0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:38.319 and bought like a big chunk of property, like a 0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:41.239 five hundred acre chunk of property. And there's all these 0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:45.080 like unincorporated roads, old logging roads that are still used 0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:48.640 for transportation. And the people who had owned this property 0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:52.120 before left this gate open, and he came in and 0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:55.640 locked it. So they ripped the gate out, burned his 0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:59.200 house down, burned his tractors everything. He's like a he's 0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:01.640 like a farm, but insurance agents. So I found his 0:48:01.680 --> 0:48:03.080 office and went and talked to him. Its like, was 0:48:03.120 --> 0:48:06.319 he well insured? Yeah? Yeah, I mean he's a but 0:48:06.400 --> 0:48:10.120 you can always use more because it's more. But you know, 0:48:10.160 --> 0:48:12.319 it's like welcome to the area, man, you know. And 0:48:12.360 --> 0:48:15.880 again like, have they apprehended who burnt his place down? No? No, 0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:17.640 But it was a blue pickup truck because it left 0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:20.520 blue paint on, left blue paint on the gate on 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:25.000 the getaway, smashed through the gate. They never call who 0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:28.920 burned that place down? And there's your whatever happened to 0:48:28.960 --> 0:48:31.520 going over to talk? I like that, man, I gotta 0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:36.000 go over and burn that house down, right, so damn. 0:48:37.400 --> 0:48:42.040 So the battle continues. I suppose and I sold the property. 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:47.920 Story sold the property. I did. Honestly, I don't feel 0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:51.080 safe going down there. I mean there's been things said 0:48:51.120 --> 0:48:54.719 and and uh and messages given. I didn't know you 0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:58.160 sold it. Did nearly quadrupled my money on it, So 0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:00.480 it wasn't all bad. Did you have did you put 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:02.799 a little disclosure in there? It ended up going to 0:49:02.840 --> 0:49:04.719 a guy. What's really nice is it went to a 0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:07.200 guy who's related to some really good people down there, 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:09.680 and he called me recently and he got my email 0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:11.040 and emailed me, and I called him back and he 0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:13.680 wanted to know about like the plumbing system, and I 0:49:13.680 --> 0:49:15.520 think it's in good hands. I'm happy for him, and 0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:17.640 I feel like a few years from now I could 0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:18.920 go down there and like have a beer on the 0:49:18.920 --> 0:49:20.719 porch with him, Like he was a good dude. I'm 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:23.759 glad it went to him. No ship think you like 0:49:23.880 --> 0:49:26.600 so you rolled away? Yeah? Man, Like I it's like 0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:29.000 Hatfield and McCoy's, I can't go down there. Like there's 0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:32.080 families down there that are like on my side, and 0:49:32.120 --> 0:49:35.160 they got to like secretly be on my side, you know, 0:49:35.719 --> 0:49:39.319 like they turned into this thing. And there's two little 0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:41.560 boys that live down in that road that are you know, 0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:44.800 very special to me, Like I really really care about 0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:48.360 him and uh and their parents are my gonna be 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:50.640 lifelong friends. And there's an old guy, but they gotta 0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:52.680 flip you off when you're in town. I just don't 0:49:52.719 --> 0:49:54.480 go down there. They come up and see me, you know. 0:49:54.680 --> 0:49:56.600 And I don't remember if you met that old man 0:49:56.640 --> 0:49:59.440 I called the mayor, Darryl Tucker like I called him. 0:49:59.600 --> 0:50:02.279 I don't want to drove around spoken cigarettes, drinking bush. 0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:08.600 He weighs like a ten pounds and drinks. Mayor. Yeah, 0:50:08.640 --> 0:50:10.520 so he's still down there, but he's selling his place 0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:12.520 and getting out too. At this point he's going back 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:15.640 back north little ways and for the same reason. Yeah, 0:50:15.680 --> 0:50:19.680 it just became like uncomfortable. It just it just became uncomfortable. 0:50:20.280 --> 0:50:26.719 So but there's people down there, man that I care about. Like, no, no, 0:50:26.840 --> 0:50:30.000 they're not winning. They're not winning. It's like their way 0:50:30.080 --> 0:50:33.239 life is changing. Like and if I can affect it 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:38.360 from the outside by bringing in you know, heat, justice 0:50:38.680 --> 0:50:41.359 or whatever and and making sure that you know, they 0:50:41.360 --> 0:50:46.600 don't do it to the next guy, then then I win. Wow. 0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:50.640 I had no idea. Yeah, we're gonna set up shops 0:50:50.680 --> 0:50:54.680 somewhere else. I don't know, not yet. I did, you know, 0:50:54.719 --> 0:50:57.520 pick up a small forty acre chunk in North Missouri. 0:50:57.560 --> 0:50:59.520 It's like a forty acre bean field where he killed 0:50:59.560 --> 0:51:02.040 giant ball Bucks killed some really good ones there. But 0:51:02.640 --> 0:51:04.920 it's not the dream, you know that I might join 0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:08.240 Yanni up in Wisconsin. I've been looking up around Hayward, 0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:10.000 like when when I was growing up, you know, it 0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:11.880 was like that whole Chicago land area. Every how do 0:51:11.920 --> 0:51:16.040 you feel about that? You honest outside moving in, you know, 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:19.080 y burnt Yanni and the mother Lavian's will burn. The 0:51:19.080 --> 0:51:21.200 story will be even better when it's against Lavian. I'm 0:51:21.200 --> 0:51:27.040 building my next house out of concrete blocks, big box. Yeah, 0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:30.520 so no, man, I you know, growing up, it was 0:51:30.640 --> 0:51:32.960 we'd go to Michigan, we'd go to Wisconsin. Like that's 0:51:32.960 --> 0:51:34.719 what we did. We just went north. I'm sure you 0:51:34.719 --> 0:51:36.960 guys went north all the time to even though you're 0:51:36.960 --> 0:51:38.440 already kind of up then all some one day you 0:51:38.480 --> 0:51:41.200 wake up and all the big bucks or southea. Yeah, yeah, 0:51:41.920 --> 0:51:45.160 there weren't big bucks up there when you were a kid. 0:51:44.120 --> 0:51:47.720 It was like everybody knew the good deer hunting. Wherever 0:51:47.719 --> 0:51:49.520 you lived, you went a little bit north and then 0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:51.640 one day, like I said in the nine early nineties, 0:51:52.200 --> 0:51:56.360 also was like you were leaving Big Box to go 0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:58.680 up in the woods and to go up north and 0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:02.759 hunt for keys. Yeah, in the in the swamps. So 0:52:02.800 --> 0:52:04.560 I don't know where I'll build another place. I mean 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:07.719 I lived out here for four years walking down Main 0:52:07.760 --> 0:52:10.080 Street today, you know, I lived in Bozeman in two 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:13.600 thousand and six, and it looks a lot different. You 0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:16.160 keep hearing the stories the Bos Angeles is, as Cal 0:52:16.280 --> 0:52:18.799 said earlier, and you've been in Los Angeles, yeah, quite 0:52:18.800 --> 0:52:21.520 a few times. Not quite there yet, not enough stut 0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:25.200 started out like sleeping little bird, just like this place. However, 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:28.839 rodeo team I heard, you know, I don't I've never 0:52:28.920 --> 0:52:32.800 been anywhere I like more in Montana, that whole area 0:52:32.920 --> 0:52:35.000 up and there. I think that's still kind of unspoiled. 0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:37.160 So that might be a place that I look at 0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:42.920 you not anymore that out Yeah, bleep it out just 0:52:42.960 --> 0:52:47.680 like we did last ball, and they're like, yeah, they 0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:52.720 don't like outsiders. Everybody in that towns and outside not everybody, 0:52:52.719 --> 0:53:00.200 but it's like whatever, we'll call that don't get me started. So, um, 0:53:00.239 --> 0:53:01.959 what you end up doing with the money people raised 0:53:02.000 --> 0:53:04.319 after you burned the cabin after they burned the cabin down. 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:07.279 Thanks for asking. I did want to address that. You know, 0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:10.920 you guys helped push this go fund me, which was 0:53:10.960 --> 0:53:13.600 a strange feeling, you know, like I'm I'm not in 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:17.520 a situation where like where I needed financial help, but 0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:22.279 it was very very comforting to have that and what 0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:25.200 you guys did, and and Pat Durkin and and so 0:53:25.239 --> 0:53:28.320 many other people and kind of helping tell that story 0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:32.600 and push it. Like the feeling of like camaraderie from 0:53:32.600 --> 0:53:35.880 the industry was so much greater than the money that 0:53:35.960 --> 0:53:39.240 came into that account. But I went up to Michigan 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:42.240 and bought a stealth Craft drift boat out of Baldwin 0:53:42.760 --> 0:53:46.600 and a brand new six horse four stroke motor. Um 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:49.080 and I've still got a little bit left and going 0:53:49.120 --> 0:53:52.799 to figure out what to do with it. Um. But yeah, 0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:56.920 the industry man like it was so good. Camp chef 0:53:58.000 --> 0:54:00.399 sent a they sent so much stuff at truck showed 0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:06.400 up with like a palette. Yeah. And sadly, Tim Anderson 0:54:06.600 --> 0:54:09.120 was a longtime mossioa guy, and you know he passed 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:12.759 away unexpectedly, but he sent me like a note and said, hey, 0:54:12.760 --> 0:54:15.360 our mutual friend Pat Dirk, and I was telling me 0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:17.440 your story. I hope this helps. And he sent me 0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:21.319 like all this Mossio clothes and um, yet he sent 0:54:21.360 --> 0:54:24.120 me a new cooler. I mean, like people just really 0:54:25.120 --> 0:54:27.000 really stepped up, and you guys had a lot to 0:54:27.040 --> 0:54:29.359 do with that. And and I'll tell you, you you know, 0:54:29.480 --> 0:54:35.360 like I expected to have these emotions of like vengeance 0:54:35.920 --> 0:54:40.800 and like real deep seated anger, and it never happened. 0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:45.160 It still hasn't happened. Like it's just acceptance. And like 0:54:45.960 --> 0:54:48.560 stranger showed up. We did a clean up day and 0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:51.239 like people I had never met showed up to help 0:54:51.239 --> 0:54:53.440 me clean it up, and like run trailers up to 0:54:53.440 --> 0:54:55.640 the scrapyard and we scrapped it all. The guy brought 0:54:55.680 --> 0:54:58.040 a tractor and you know, we all went out for 0:54:58.200 --> 0:55:01.200 dinner and you know, we cleaned. It took five years 0:55:01.600 --> 0:55:04.600 to build that place, an hour for it to burn down, 0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:07.520 in four hours to take everything to the scrap yard. 0:55:08.280 --> 0:55:10.600 But like, dude, the you know, for lack of a 0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:14.239 better word, just like the love from people, like I've 0:55:14.280 --> 0:55:16.440 never really felt anything like that before, Like it was 0:55:16.480 --> 0:55:22.520 incredibly humbling and comforting, and the positives that came out 0:55:22.520 --> 0:55:26.480 of the experience have like outweighed the negatives. And it's 0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:28.160 it's hard to listen to my kids talk about like 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:30.920 missing it, you know, because I truly did build like 0:55:31.360 --> 0:55:33.799 it was like my Willie Wonka chocolate factory, you know, 0:55:33.840 --> 0:55:36.000 like it was my dream place that I wanted when 0:55:36.040 --> 0:55:38.480 I was a kid. So my kids could have what 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:40.799 I had manifested in my head so many years ago. 0:55:41.320 --> 0:55:43.040 And they would bring their friends down and these are 0:55:43.080 --> 0:55:46.640 like mostly girls that had never been on a river before, 0:55:46.800 --> 0:55:49.600 so they were kayaking and rafting and jumping off cliffs 0:55:49.600 --> 0:55:53.520 and catching crawdads and fishing, and like that was the 0:55:53.560 --> 0:55:55.600 best part of it all. I was like sharing that 0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:57.520 and getting them to put their phones down, Like for 0:55:57.560 --> 0:55:59.120 the longest time, I didn't even have the internet, so 0:55:59.160 --> 0:56:02.600 they were forced to like play cards, read books, you know. 0:56:03.400 --> 0:56:07.040 And and that's the part that I missed so much, 0:56:07.160 --> 0:56:09.880 is because like my girls are going to be a sophomore, 0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:11.680 going to be a senior, and they're in this position 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:13.960 like now where it would have been even as they're 0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:16.560 getting older, it would have been even more fun, you know, 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:19.200 to have them down there on the rivers and doing that. 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:23.360 So so yeah, I'm looking for like a comeback spot, 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:25.359 you know, because I want to be able to provide that. 0:56:26.080 --> 0:56:28.759 But you know, they're gonna be going to college soon. 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:30.920 The older one she wants to come here. She was 0:56:30.960 --> 0:56:34.439 born in Montana, so she has like a big spot 0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:36.840 in her heart from Montana. The younger one wants to 0:56:36.880 --> 0:56:40.120 go to Florida and be a marine biologist. So they're 0:56:40.120 --> 0:56:42.799 gonna split which after that, I don't I don't know 0:56:42.800 --> 0:56:45.239 where I'm gonna build a place. But I've always loved 0:56:45.239 --> 0:56:49.120 the north Woods, always loved the North Country. So I'll 0:56:49.160 --> 0:56:51.879 keep us posted. Man. Yeah, maybe I'll invite you once 0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:55.120 it's all finished this time, please, But with all all 0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:56.640 the poachers around, I don't know if I'll be able 0:56:56.680 --> 0:56:58.760 to find a crippled up Turkey that's someone that shouting 0:56:58.760 --> 0:57:03.960 with twenty two. Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, 0:57:04.680 --> 0:57:07.040 I assume a lot of listeners probably know that you 0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:09.719 guys came and Turkey hunted there. But that was a 0:57:09.719 --> 0:57:12.439 lot of fun. And you know, Clay Nucom was there 0:57:12.480 --> 0:57:17.160 and we fried Crappy and Bear Grease. Hal Herring came 0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:19.640 down there, Hal who lives in Augusta, Montana said the 0:57:19.680 --> 0:57:21.320 coldest night he's ever had in his life was in 0:57:21.360 --> 0:57:27.560 that cabin and the governor. Damn, it became a really 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:30.080 special place. Was it was a place to like highlight 0:57:30.120 --> 0:57:32.400 the beauty of this region and like all the natural 0:57:33.200 --> 0:57:36.800 um serenity that can and does exist in pockets. But 0:57:37.600 --> 0:57:41.959 it's just curbing that that mentality of like this few, 0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:55.200 these few people against the world. All right, I'm gonna 0:57:55.240 --> 0:57:59.720 jump into the corner cross the situation. Ready, yeah, let me. 0:57:59.760 --> 0:58:01.280 I want to do a quick because we've we've talked 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.840 about so I'm gonna do a quick recap for people, 0:58:04.640 --> 0:58:06.320 and then you can we can get into details that 0:58:06.400 --> 0:58:09.880 you guys, because I got a bunch of questions. Um, 0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:14.080 as we've explained, Yanni explained corner crossing. You've done enough. 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:16.200 You're probably good at it. For the for the thirtieth 0:58:16.280 --> 0:58:22.320 time on this show. If you look at Yanni's in scene, 0:58:23.160 --> 0:58:28.479 he can he can straddle a corner like no other. Uh. 0:58:28.520 --> 0:58:34.880 And a lot of Western states when uh they became states, 0:58:35.040 --> 0:58:42.360 they were given land um from the railroads. Correct me 0:58:42.360 --> 0:58:44.680 if I'm wrong here, I'm sitting still hitting down the 0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:49.920 right pathcal and Uh, they ended up being public and 0:58:49.960 --> 0:58:55.280 private land that was literally put out in a checkerboard fashion, 0:58:55.520 --> 0:58:58.560 So you can imagine a chackerboard, all the red of 0:58:58.560 --> 0:59:03.320 being public and all the lack being private or vice versa, 0:59:03.400 --> 0:59:07.080 doesn't matter anyways, I can't what was the reasoning for 0:59:07.200 --> 0:59:14.360 that in the original. It's so the railroads were given 0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:18.160 a ton of land in order to open up the West, 0:59:18.240 --> 0:59:21.880 basically for taxpayer base, right, the railroads were the most 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:25.160 efficient vehicle to get a bunch of people seeded out 0:59:25.720 --> 0:59:29.840 into the Great Unknown in order to start bringing in 0:59:29.880 --> 0:59:31.919 more cash for for the government. And they were being 0:59:32.040 --> 0:59:34.600 they were being compensated for the track building with land 0:59:34.640 --> 0:59:39.160 grants exactly exactly. So, um, it's funny that you bring 0:59:39.240 --> 0:59:42.080 up hal Herring because he had this great quote and 0:59:42.120 --> 0:59:49.040 he calls it an unholy union between government and industry. 0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:54.720 And uh so, yeah, they got all this land. They 0:59:54.720 --> 0:59:56.880 could sell it, they could lease it, they could do 0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:59.160 whatever they want with it. And then there's also like 0:59:59.200 --> 1:00:02.760 the state house sections, which when a state became a 1:00:02.760 --> 1:00:07.400 state from a territory, they were also granted sections of 1:00:07.480 --> 1:00:12.720 lands set aside for the purpose of raising funds for 1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:18.320 public education, um or just raising raising funds in general. 1:00:18.440 --> 1:00:21.600 So do you know the reason for the actual checkerboard pattern? 1:00:22.520 --> 1:00:25.680 You know what? It all came out of the jefferson 1:00:25.760 --> 1:00:28.640 Ian grid system, which is how we came up with 1:00:28.680 --> 1:00:33.440 this marker system, right, the monument markers that that show 1:00:33.600 --> 1:00:38.200 the checkerboard deal. But it's this idea that that Thomas 1:00:38.280 --> 1:00:42.000 Jefferson came up with to literally make sense out of 1:00:42.240 --> 1:00:46.680 something like that doesn't make any sense to people. Right, Like, 1:00:46.720 --> 1:00:50.040 I'm staring at what could be described as the Hell's 1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:55.320 Canyon landscape behind Steve right now, and that's it's like 1:00:55.400 --> 1:00:59.320 trying to make nice even grids that can be divvied up, 1:00:59.600 --> 1:01:04.240 soul old and accounted for with our tax system and 1:01:04.320 --> 1:01:07.680 revenue system that we have even in a place where 1:01:07.680 --> 1:01:11.360 little grids don't always work. So corner crossing being yeah, 1:01:11.400 --> 1:01:14.000 so it ends up being that there's all this public 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:18.440 land that is um again either the blue or the 1:01:18.560 --> 1:01:20.920 or the sorry, the black or the red on a checkerboard, 1:01:21.600 --> 1:01:27.440 and it's inaccessible because most believe that you cannot go 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:31.880 from one corner of public to another corner of public 1:01:32.080 --> 1:01:37.120 because you violate the person's airspace as your shoulders and 1:01:37.240 --> 1:01:41.560 hips pass over their land. You're doing them harm. Well, technically, 1:01:41.600 --> 1:01:43.640 it's not just your whole shoulders and hips. I mean 1:01:43.640 --> 1:01:47.600 it's your body. Whatever the hell. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, 1:01:47.600 --> 1:01:50.439 it's your whole it's your whole body, because that that 1:01:50.760 --> 1:01:56.400 corner isn't defined. It's infinite and all. It's infinitely finite. Yeah, 1:01:56.960 --> 1:02:00.720 the narrowest line. But the philosopher and you could say 1:02:00.720 --> 1:02:05.360 that I am equitably in all four places. Sorry, man, 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:08.800 equal parts public as to private. It's only half of 1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:11.600 me is doing only half of me is problematic. It's 1:02:11.640 --> 1:02:16.120 infinitely fine, but it's still a problem. So a lot 1:02:16.160 --> 1:02:20.280 of states have this is a a giant question mark 1:02:20.400 --> 1:02:23.400 looms over the issue of corner crossing where states, like 1:02:23.520 --> 1:02:29.320 the state of Montana, they basically recommend against it. Right. 1:02:30.160 --> 1:02:33.160 In some places it's not it's like not specifically clear, 1:02:33.240 --> 1:02:35.880 like people might recommend against it. There might be sort 1:02:35.920 --> 1:02:38.280 of a question mark lingering over whether it's okay or not. 1:02:39.320 --> 1:02:46.080 Um Our guests here got a little bit, i'll see, 1:02:46.240 --> 1:02:48.560 got famous in the in the in the in the 1:02:48.640 --> 1:02:51.960 access world, in the public access world, got famous for 1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:56.640 going into, going in and hunting an area where they 1:02:56.720 --> 1:03:03.200 had corner crossed. Okay, in Wyoming, in Wyoming. Now, can 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:06.120 you guys lay out what you were trying to act? Like? 1:03:06.200 --> 1:03:08.600 How much ground were you trying to access through the 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:11.200 corner hopping of? How many corners can you can you? 1:03:11.240 --> 1:03:14.040 Would you mind to introduce to do that first? My 1:03:14.120 --> 1:03:17.560 name is Brad Brad Cape. We're from Missouri. Uh my 1:03:17.600 --> 1:03:21.920 buddy Phil sitting over here. Go ahead, Phil, Philly yeomans 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:26.920 from Missouri. From Missouri. So, so to back up a 1:03:27.000 --> 1:03:33.920 little bit, be in Missouri Ozarkins? Did you burn his 1:03:33.920 --> 1:03:38.360 place down? I know she has clear the area. We're 1:03:38.400 --> 1:03:41.400 only an hour or so from that area. We're like 1:03:41.440 --> 1:03:44.200 the north of the Ozarks. He's deep in the Ozarks. 1:03:45.400 --> 1:03:50.160 So to be sitting in Missouri and thinking about corner 1:03:50.200 --> 1:03:54.440 crossing is non existent. It's not a thought process, you know, 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:58.720 it's unheard of. Um So, because the land is not 1:03:58.840 --> 1:04:03.040 laid out like that wrecked I cannot explain our story 1:04:03.080 --> 1:04:06.320 if I'm not standing on a sidewalk or a tile floor, 1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:17.400 it's it's unexplainable, which typically front in Missouri. So when 1:04:17.400 --> 1:04:19.360 we found this place that we wanted to look at 1:04:20.280 --> 1:04:24.800 and was looking for access in there, it was an 1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:26.800 it was a no brainer. You know, I can park 1:04:26.880 --> 1:04:30.040 right here on the corner on the County road and 1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:32.400 walk right into this thing. That's what I wanted to 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:35.920 ask you, guys, like you picked that spot based on 1:04:36.080 --> 1:04:38.960 what that little corner would then give you access to 1:04:40.000 --> 1:04:44.280 potentially one of the reasons that's okay, we're getting into 1:04:44.280 --> 1:04:45.880 one of my main question, Bonds can hit it right 1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:48.440 now because you're kind of answering it. You weren't looking 1:04:48.480 --> 1:04:53.000 to do like a Rosa Parks asked civil disobedience. You 1:04:53.040 --> 1:04:56.000 were looking to get some hunting in. Absolutely, We're just hunters. 1:04:56.080 --> 1:04:59.240 You were there because they were out, absolutely, and we 1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:03.120 could draw up permit, you know, just like that. Because 1:05:03.160 --> 1:05:05.160 I think there's the impression from a lot of people 1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:07.800 that it was like all these are the guys that 1:05:07.840 --> 1:05:11.080 we're gonna push it until something happened, just to clear 1:05:11.360 --> 1:05:13.400 things up, like you're gonna go and get in trouble 1:05:13.440 --> 1:05:17.600 on purpose. Yeah, it was never a thought process. I mean, 1:05:17.640 --> 1:05:19.960 it never entered our mind. We never dreamed in a 1:05:20.040 --> 1:05:23.000 million years that I'd be sitting here right now because 1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:27.240 I stepped through air. You know, our bank accounts wouldn't 1:05:27.240 --> 1:05:30.880 be big enough or something like that. And uh, you 1:05:30.920 --> 1:05:33.520 know I've been talking about public lands for a long 1:05:33.600 --> 1:05:36.640 long time. And I'll be real honest that the great 1:05:36.680 --> 1:05:41.919 public land battles of Missouri don't come into into play 1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:47.680 real often, so advocates from Missouri is kind of uh stretch, 1:05:47.960 --> 1:05:52.959 I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So we we looked at draw 1:05:53.080 --> 1:05:55.919 statistics and kill statistics and we're looking for a place 1:05:55.960 --> 1:05:59.120 to hunt. You know, it is all that was. And 1:05:59.200 --> 1:06:01.560 so when I'm like, hey, we can get a tag 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:05.520 right here, you know, then we actually went there first 1:06:05.560 --> 1:06:10.880 and went two thousand nineteen, leaving from a antelope hunt, 1:06:10.960 --> 1:06:13.880 I'm like, hey, let's go drive around this. So we 1:06:13.920 --> 1:06:16.320 go and drive around this mountain and this is the 1:06:16.360 --> 1:06:20.920 first week of rifle season for ELK and there's no camps, 1:06:22.000 --> 1:06:25.760 there's nobody there, there's not a track. We pull off 1:06:25.760 --> 1:06:28.959 and work on our trailer lights, there's no vehicles go by. 1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:31.920 So we're like, we're onto something here. We got our 1:06:31.960 --> 1:06:34.560 own little oasis. We just gotta figure out where to 1:06:34.600 --> 1:06:37.960 park and how to get in there and hunt. Got it. 1:06:38.400 --> 1:06:41.480 So that was the gist of of the whole deal. 1:06:42.360 --> 1:06:45.720 But how when you lined out the property you wanted 1:06:45.720 --> 1:06:48.240 to get into and where you could park, how are 1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:52.880 you certain that you were going to be able to 1:06:53.000 --> 1:06:58.280 do that step where where there's you have a foot 1:06:58.320 --> 1:07:01.000 on public and you're placing your their foot on public 1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:04.560 even though you just stepped from a red checker spot 1:07:04.800 --> 1:07:08.160 to a red checker spot. You know, because there's the 1:07:08.240 --> 1:07:13.240 question where fences aren't accurately laid down? You you know, 1:07:13.280 --> 1:07:15.840 you gotta be pretty good right to know that one 1:07:15.880 --> 1:07:18.040 ft and one and one fts in the other. Was 1:07:18.080 --> 1:07:20.160 this the thing you thought about? Is were you thinking 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:23.880 about precision at all? I'm a fence builder by trade, 1:07:24.640 --> 1:07:29.160 so I've been around property corners, property lines, researched all 1:07:29.160 --> 1:07:31.200 of this. That's what I've done for thirty three years, 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:36.840 you know. So somebody had a question looks like I 1:07:36.880 --> 1:07:40.400 know how to find the survey steak um. So that's 1:07:40.440 --> 1:07:43.360 what we did. But but did it even the first 1:07:43.400 --> 1:07:46.840 time you did it? Where was it even in your 1:07:46.840 --> 1:07:49.840 head that, look, we're going to corner cross or where 1:07:49.960 --> 1:07:51.680 you were you just like we're just gonna go from 1:07:51.680 --> 1:07:53.920 here to here to hunt like you like a corner 1:07:53.920 --> 1:07:56.520 crossing thing. Was it even an issue? Did you know 1:07:56.680 --> 1:08:00.200 you weren't really supposed to do it? No, it was 1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:04.640 a laughable thought that we couldn't step from here to here, 1:08:04.800 --> 1:08:06.439 and I think, like not even to the point where 1:08:06.440 --> 1:08:08.480 you wanted to call and clarify, just like why not. 1:08:09.160 --> 1:08:12.560 It was laughable, honestly laughable to us that and everybody 1:08:12.560 --> 1:08:15.160 we talked to that you can't step from one to 1:08:15.240 --> 1:08:18.640 the other. But why the latter, because this is my 1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:23.880 other big question you brought a later kay ah, yeah, 1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:26.880 that's later. Um. So we're still in the two thousand 1:08:26.920 --> 1:08:29.360 nineteen season right now. Well, we didn't hunt nineteen. We 1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:31.040 just looked at it and said, yeah, that's a place 1:08:31.120 --> 1:08:34.439 we want to go. So back home through the next year, 1:08:34.600 --> 1:08:39.080 studying maps of where public is and roads and how 1:08:39.120 --> 1:08:42.000 to get in there. We do that. We go in 1:08:42.040 --> 1:08:44.280 there and hunt. It was easy, it was fun. We 1:08:44.280 --> 1:08:50.439 didn't have any problems until we haven't. Elpdown. Um ended up. 1:08:50.800 --> 1:08:57.879 Deputy comes out, landowner. This is not a conservation officer. 1:08:58.760 --> 1:09:02.519 Deputy well, a sheriff's deputy. If we roll back a 1:09:02.520 --> 1:09:09.320 little bit, the landowner calls deputy. I call the game warden. 1:09:10.520 --> 1:09:15.480 Game warden says, we don't even come out and investigate 1:09:15.560 --> 1:09:17.800 these sort of things. You're corner crossing. It's nothing to 1:09:17.840 --> 1:09:22.040 hear for us to do. The deputy. No, the game warden. Okay. 1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:24.559 The game warden says, I don't do I don't take 1:09:24.600 --> 1:09:28.240 corner cross and calls correct. And we had read the 1:09:28.320 --> 1:09:33.720 Attorney General's Peace. You know that everybody's read and Game 1:09:33.800 --> 1:09:38.000 and Fish site. We're we had this conversation even we're hunters. 1:09:38.040 --> 1:09:40.560 So where do you research when you're an out of 1:09:40.600 --> 1:09:44.040 state hunter? You the website for the Game and Fish Commission. 1:09:44.080 --> 1:09:47.160 You know, it's where we got our information. Um, we 1:09:47.240 --> 1:09:49.760 call the game warden from up on the mountain because 1:09:49.800 --> 1:09:52.840 I can see the deputy down in the valley and say, 1:09:54.000 --> 1:09:56.280 I gotta make sure I'm getting this right. And this 1:09:56.360 --> 1:10:00.799 is you cross the corner correct, And then you're hunting 1:10:00.840 --> 1:10:03.920 the land you got into correct. And you look and 1:10:04.000 --> 1:10:07.840 lo and behold you see a deputy correct down at 1:10:07.880 --> 1:10:10.400 the corner at your truck. No, not at the corner 1:10:10.640 --> 1:10:14.400 in the in a canyon there, and we were up 1:10:14.400 --> 1:10:16.200 on the mountain and you feel as always looking for 1:10:16.240 --> 1:10:19.360 you correct. You just feel this. So you know we 1:10:19.520 --> 1:10:22.000 knew the game word or not? The game warden, UH, 1:10:22.520 --> 1:10:26.559 help me outfill the landowner the ranch manager says, he 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:30.320 comes and sees us and says, hey, you're not supposed 1:10:30.320 --> 1:10:34.120 to be here. We say we're on public land. He says, okay, 1:10:34.120 --> 1:10:38.639 I'll go call the deputy. I got you. We say great, Um, 1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:43.280 so we go on. When the deputy shows up, we 1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:46.599 are up on the mountain and so then we don't 1:10:46.640 --> 1:10:48.439 know whether we have to turn around and go back 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:51.840 down to see the deputy or carry on. And so 1:10:51.880 --> 1:10:55.080 I called the game warden and said, what's my obligation here? 1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:58.400 What do I do? And he says, your obligation is 1:10:58.479 --> 1:11:00.760 to go to the elk that you have down. You know, 1:11:00.800 --> 1:11:03.320 if the deputy doesn't have his lights on and isn't 1:11:04.000 --> 1:11:06.960 hollering for you over the speaker, your obligation is to 1:11:07.040 --> 1:11:11.000 your down elk, which is a legal obligation. Correct. So 1:11:11.160 --> 1:11:17.400 that's what we've done. Fast forward today. I believe deputy 1:11:17.479 --> 1:11:20.439 had came to our camp and left a note on 1:11:20.520 --> 1:11:24.559 my truck window said call me. So we call him. 1:11:24.800 --> 1:11:29.719 He comes, We have a meeting, a pow wow. He says, 1:11:29.800 --> 1:11:33.600 you guys aren't doing anything wrong. The deputy, the deputy, 1:11:33.600 --> 1:11:36.679 why is he there then? Because he was called there 1:11:37.040 --> 1:11:40.840 so he had to call and investigate, you know. So 1:11:40.920 --> 1:11:42.560 he comes, he's like, I'll go out and take a 1:11:42.560 --> 1:11:44.320 look at my own two eyes. Yeah, he come out 1:11:44.320 --> 1:11:47.040 and talk to us, and his investigation determined that you're 1:11:47.040 --> 1:11:52.280 not doing anything wrong. He says, go hunt. You know. 1:11:52.520 --> 1:11:55.680 Phil even said, so we're good to go. You know 1:11:55.760 --> 1:11:58.200 this is in two thousand twenties. Says, yeah, you're good 1:11:58.240 --> 1:12:01.679 to go. We told him how we crossed the corner. 1:12:02.560 --> 1:12:05.400 You're good to go, and I'm gonna go tell the landowner. 1:12:05.920 --> 1:12:10.439 There's nothing he can do about it. So that was 1:12:11.520 --> 1:12:15.599 what what are you thinking now, Phil? What are you thinking? Yeah? 1:12:15.760 --> 1:12:19.960 Thinking we're we're good to go. You know how else? 1:12:21.080 --> 1:12:25.120 I thought about it long and harder. All right, you 1:12:25.160 --> 1:12:27.240 guys thinking, you guys got a pretty good hunting spot. 1:12:27.479 --> 1:12:30.720 You spend a few more days hunting there, and we 1:12:30.720 --> 1:12:35.880 were actually tagged out and we're backing animals. We took 1:12:35.920 --> 1:12:40.599 two days to tag out. So there was no no 1:12:40.680 --> 1:12:44.639 altercation with the law on that trip. No no no 1:12:45.000 --> 1:12:51.200 citations issued, nothing, nothing nothing. All the combusion that he 1:12:51.280 --> 1:12:52.960 came to though, is you got a darned good helk 1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:57.280 hunting spot. Absolutely so, now how could you not think that? Right? 1:12:57.479 --> 1:13:00.840 It's two thousand twenty one. So what it happened was 1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:06.960 landowner takes two tea posts and signs in a chain 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:09.200 and goes over the top of that corner. But why 1:13:09.200 --> 1:13:11.800 are his tea posts on public land his tea post 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:17.360 around private land private? How is he not violating like 1:13:17.960 --> 1:13:19.439 or does he do it in such a way that 1:13:19.479 --> 1:13:23.320 he's never his chain or nothing is on the You 1:13:23.400 --> 1:13:27.839 can't because I'm saying, maybe he blocked only his corner, 1:13:28.400 --> 1:13:32.240 so you can't like enter his corner. What did he block? 1:13:32.320 --> 1:13:34.720 So the tea posts were one on each side of 1:13:34.720 --> 1:13:37.639 the corner on private on private property, and the chain 1:13:37.720 --> 1:13:41.040 was stretching across chain between him with with signage. Okay, 1:13:41.040 --> 1:13:43.600 and since these corners are infinitely finite, his chain is 1:13:43.640 --> 1:13:46.360 on public land, that's the way we see it. When 1:13:46.360 --> 1:13:49.000 he used the signs. Yeah, he put one sign low 1:13:49.040 --> 1:13:51.080 on the post and one signed high on the post 1:13:51.840 --> 1:13:55.400 and overlapped him to try and block the whole corner. 1:13:55.520 --> 1:13:57.360 And you're seeing this for the first time. When you 1:13:57.439 --> 1:14:01.000 get there, you can see it. You can see it 1:14:01.040 --> 1:14:05.120 from the county road. So you so his positioning of 1:14:05.160 --> 1:14:09.519 the signs was like meant to be not informing someone 1:14:09.680 --> 1:14:15.360 was also meant to be preventing passage. Well, he testified 1:14:15.400 --> 1:14:19.519 in court that he took the chain down. Okay, and 1:14:19.560 --> 1:14:21.519 what was his reason for that? If we want to 1:14:21.560 --> 1:14:23.519 go there right now? But well, he was asked if 1:14:23.520 --> 1:14:25.760 that change served he said, it served no purpose. That's 1:14:25.800 --> 1:14:28.439 why he took it down. Why did you take the 1:14:28.479 --> 1:14:37.080 Chiant chain down? It served no purpose? Did? He wouldn't answer. Man, 1:14:37.120 --> 1:14:39.200 I need to go more of these court cases, man, 1:14:39.320 --> 1:14:46.720 just like conversation, the chain conversation. Okay. So yeah, go on, 1:14:46.960 --> 1:14:49.040 you're on the ground and you see this for the 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:51.479 first time. We know the signs in the poster there 1:14:51.479 --> 1:14:54.000 because you see him when you show up. We knew 1:14:54.120 --> 1:14:57.719 previously that they were there. We threw the latter in Missouri. 1:14:58.840 --> 1:15:00.880 Do it through like through the grape vine. I don't 1:15:00.880 --> 1:15:05.320 need I don't need other details. But yeah, pretty much okay, okay, okay, 1:15:05.320 --> 1:15:10.439 So you became aware and so too, just out of 1:15:10.479 --> 1:15:14.320 respect for the landow like like, I'm not doing my 1:15:14.400 --> 1:15:15.880 job if I don't dig in a little bit here. 1:15:16.000 --> 1:15:19.880 I don't need to know specifics. But you leave in 1:15:19.960 --> 1:15:25.839 twenty no sign, no arrest, no sign, no nothing. Signs 1:15:25.840 --> 1:15:31.200 were there in saying what no trespassing? Okay on this 1:15:31.240 --> 1:15:35.800 section in this section, got it? And then you be 1:15:36.160 --> 1:15:40.320 you're made aware that this person has taken additional steps 1:15:40.600 --> 1:15:43.840 and has tried to obstruct the corner even though you 1:15:43.880 --> 1:15:46.559 were told by law enforcement that you're doing nothing wrong. 1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:49.280 That's how we took it. So rather than going and 1:15:49.439 --> 1:15:55.559 haggling about, well he needs to remove that and doing that, 1:15:56.000 --> 1:15:59.479 you're like, okay, we'll just bypass the obstruction since we've 1:15:59.520 --> 1:16:02.479 been told we're okay, correct, We just made it easy. 1:16:02.640 --> 1:16:06.840 And in that interview, in the year between those two 1:16:06.920 --> 1:16:12.639 hunting seasons, had you learned more about what an issue 1:16:12.720 --> 1:16:16.640 corner crossing was in the West, Like, you know, you 1:16:16.640 --> 1:16:20.720 weren't really aware of how crazy it was in in 1:16:20.760 --> 1:16:24.400 the next year, did you learn that it was a 1:16:24.400 --> 1:16:27.280 big deal out here? And I don't think anything changed. No, No, 1:16:27.439 --> 1:16:31.600 our minds weren't. But you didn't just casually start researching 1:16:31.640 --> 1:16:34.120 the issue in history of corn to the corner crossing 1:16:34.120 --> 1:16:39.479 debate some yeah, but yeah, not enough for you to 1:16:40.000 --> 1:16:42.920 not enough to change your mind. There's so it was 1:16:43.120 --> 1:16:48.320 very simple for us. There's no law against corner crossing. Yeah, 1:16:48.640 --> 1:16:50.800 you know, if you get on the message boards, if 1:16:50.840 --> 1:16:53.800 you get on talking to whoever you want to talk to, 1:16:54.360 --> 1:16:57.559 it's all fluff, it's all horseshit. You know, there is 1:16:57.640 --> 1:17:02.639 no law against corner crossing to deput He met and said, yes, 1:17:02.840 --> 1:17:05.439 go ahead, you know, game ward and won't even come out, 1:17:06.080 --> 1:17:08.800 you know, and and investigate it or even help us 1:17:08.840 --> 1:17:13.040 do it. In a state that's very, very friendly to landowners, 1:17:13.120 --> 1:17:17.960 like you know very well. We don't know this well no, no, 1:17:18.040 --> 1:17:20.519 I'm just saying, like Montana is known as a state 1:17:20.600 --> 1:17:23.160 that's like they don't have a lot against it, in 1:17:23.160 --> 1:17:28.400 a state that's very i would say friendly towards private landowners. Yeah, 1:17:28.920 --> 1:17:31.000 we're assuming, you know, we don't know. We just know 1:17:31.080 --> 1:17:34.280 there's no law against. That's that's our thought process. So 1:17:34.400 --> 1:17:37.560 this so you're thinking, this guy can do whatever you want. 1:17:37.600 --> 1:17:39.280 I'm not gonna go bang on his door and ask 1:17:39.320 --> 1:17:41.599 him to move it. I'm just gonna go around it. Correct, 1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:45.479 you know, up and over? Who makes a good ladder 1:17:45.640 --> 1:17:55.360 for going over corners? A fence builders all type fence perfect. Yeah, yeah, 1:17:55.360 --> 1:17:58.760 it's made out of fence pipe. It's really serendipitous as 1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:02.160 you man. Yeah, there were some strange things of how 1:18:02.200 --> 1:18:04.200 this all worked out. Can we have that fence for 1:18:04.240 --> 1:18:06.160 the for we have a thing called the auction House 1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:09.479 of Bodity. The ladder can we get that ladder that 1:18:09.880 --> 1:18:12.720 I think we already offered it maybe to uh that 1:18:12.920 --> 1:18:16.920 country hunters and anglers like a like a like a 1:18:17.040 --> 1:18:19.920 like Adam see Him exhibit or something. We talked about. 1:18:20.000 --> 1:18:23.840 We talked about it donating it to the Carbon County Museum. No, 1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:26.920 that's a great idea, man. Is it lightweight? Is light 1:18:27.040 --> 1:18:28.960 enough to carry up there? You know I built it 1:18:29.000 --> 1:18:30.360 as light as I could. Only had to go a 1:18:30.400 --> 1:18:32.559 couple hundred yards, you know, and still get over the corner. 1:18:32.720 --> 1:18:35.120 He trumped it out here on a trailer. Yeah, you'd 1:18:35.120 --> 1:18:39.479 get a little side business going. Man had to be 1:18:39.640 --> 1:18:43.080 very tall ladder, right, I know how tall teposts was, 1:18:43.120 --> 1:18:44.840 so we just made it six inches taller than that. 1:18:47.439 --> 1:18:53.479 It really seemed yeah, like a simple go together plan. Sure, 1:18:53.880 --> 1:18:57.840 and you're not just destroying or defacing private property because 1:18:57.840 --> 1:19:01.240 you're not doing anything to alter the t posts which 1:19:01.280 --> 1:19:04.559 are on private property. And we are private landowners back 1:19:04.560 --> 1:19:07.640 in Missouri. You know, we've got public rivers go right 1:19:07.640 --> 1:19:09.479 through the middle of our place. You know, there's all 1:19:09.600 --> 1:19:13.639 kinds of people using the public waterways, you know, through 1:19:13.680 --> 1:19:16.240 our land. So we we know how that game, you 1:19:16.280 --> 1:19:21.440 know it's played. You just tolerate some things and established 1:19:21.479 --> 1:19:25.519 boundaries and just be respectful of people. You know, we 1:19:25.640 --> 1:19:29.679 never thought for once that we were disrespecting anybody. Were 1:19:30.600 --> 1:19:33.360 somebody said we touched air. You know, that was just 1:19:33.640 --> 1:19:38.560 crazy to us to think of such a thing. Okay, 1:19:38.880 --> 1:19:45.440 so you show up, Um, do you want to take overfield? 1:19:48.760 --> 1:19:50.679 Want to talk about the whole hunt or what? Yeah? 1:19:50.720 --> 1:19:55.240 We no, not just friends. He has in high school 1:19:55.240 --> 1:19:59.040 with my wife somewhere a long time five six se 1:19:59.560 --> 1:20:01.680 I don't know, and six handful of years you went 1:20:01.720 --> 1:20:03.720 to high school with his wife? Did you day hurt? 1:20:05.320 --> 1:20:07.719 Did you guys have a lot of like Western hunting 1:20:07.720 --> 1:20:12.600 experience or was it just I hunted Colorado for like 1:20:12.680 --> 1:20:15.519 through the nineties? Okay, so yeah, you know, but then 1:20:16.080 --> 1:20:18.760 a hiatus of raising a family and doing you know 1:20:18.760 --> 1:20:21.760 what everybody does, building fence, building fence, trying to make 1:20:21.760 --> 1:20:24.200 a living. Uh, me and Phil get to be buddies 1:20:24.240 --> 1:20:26.439 and say hey let's go west. Got it? You know? 1:20:26.520 --> 1:20:28.720 So that's what we did. So we've been doing it 1:20:28.920 --> 1:20:39.000 handful of years. You are you fill your fifty? I 1:20:39.000 --> 1:20:41.639 got a birthday about I was gonna say six seven days? 1:20:41.640 --> 1:20:46.360 You guys neck and neck? You have you because you 1:20:46.479 --> 1:20:52.840 have built the fence. You I'm sorry, I'm sorry you 1:20:52.920 --> 1:20:56.519 built the ladder, UH to cross across the corner without 1:20:56.600 --> 1:21:00.280 touching these private tea posts letter on private land? Have 1:21:00.439 --> 1:21:05.160 you reached out to UH conservation officers? Are law enforcement 1:21:05.200 --> 1:21:10.360 prior to your trip to in addition to your preparation 1:21:10.439 --> 1:21:14.000 of how you're going to cross these teapots? No, we 1:21:14.040 --> 1:21:17.760 had talked to law enforcement, you know, that said we 1:21:17.760 --> 1:21:22.519 were doing nothing wrong. Um. And so the latter's kind 1:21:22.560 --> 1:21:29.800 of an extra, just just because you don't want to 1:21:29.880 --> 1:21:33.280 bend his ship out of the way, it's a it's 1:21:33.280 --> 1:21:38.840 an extra to be ultimately clear as to our intent, um. 1:21:39.000 --> 1:21:44.000 And even in one we rely on our intent. You 1:21:44.040 --> 1:21:47.240 know our intent, we think or we think we're decent guys. 1:21:47.280 --> 1:21:49.360 We're just trying to do things the right way, and 1:21:49.439 --> 1:21:52.320 our intent is to hunt public land. So I got 1:21:52.320 --> 1:21:54.240 a level of you on something, and I'm glad it 1:21:54.280 --> 1:21:56.599 turned out the way it is. I in my mind 1:21:56.880 --> 1:21:59.240 leading into this day when I would meet you in 1:21:59.320 --> 1:22:03.639 my mind and I I thought that there was more 1:22:03.680 --> 1:22:08.880 of a like um, like a like fixing, like trying 1:22:08.920 --> 1:22:13.479 to stick it to someone, screw him. Yeah, I didn't know, 1:22:13.640 --> 1:22:16.000 like like I thought that there was like a cuteness 1:22:16.120 --> 1:22:18.439 to the ladder, but the ladder is more like, no, 1:22:18.479 --> 1:22:23.200 I don't want to It's absolutely a tool, you know. 1:22:24.040 --> 1:22:26.040 Yeah where you you know, you like had a legal 1:22:26.080 --> 1:22:30.280 scholar and be like, wow, let's try a ladder. No, no, 1:22:30.439 --> 1:22:33.320 we we've had our share of attorneys through this whole thing. 1:22:33.360 --> 1:22:36.800 You know. We're just a matter of what do we 1:22:36.840 --> 1:22:40.320 have to do to do it correctly to where nobody 1:22:40.320 --> 1:22:44.640 can question us. And we have a mentality of we 1:22:44.680 --> 1:22:47.320 will walk a mile further than the next guy. We 1:22:47.400 --> 1:22:51.280 will do whatever we have to do, you know, to 1:22:51.280 --> 1:22:55.080 to hunt, you know, to pursue our game, you know, 1:22:55.200 --> 1:22:57.639 to be successful. We're gonna do what we have to do. 1:22:57.960 --> 1:23:01.680 Got um American noble agree. Yeah. Yeah, it's just kind 1:23:01.680 --> 1:23:05.880 of how we roll, you know. So we get there, 1:23:06.080 --> 1:23:08.439 we take off up the mountain, you know, our very 1:23:08.479 --> 1:23:12.839 first evening. Um, we spend the night up on the mountain, 1:23:13.439 --> 1:23:15.280 you know, with the base camp done at our truck, 1:23:16.040 --> 1:23:19.920 and at daylight the next morning, here's the ranch manager 1:23:19.960 --> 1:23:24.759 guys driving up and down you know, through bll ground. 1:23:25.360 --> 1:23:27.599 But they're they're hunting us. They're looking for us from 1:23:27.640 --> 1:23:32.360 the from the get go. Um, so they don't find 1:23:32.439 --> 1:23:35.120 us because we're up on the mountain overlooking them, and 1:23:35.200 --> 1:23:39.840 we take off and we spend four nights, four nights 1:23:41.600 --> 1:23:45.000 to evade them or take off up the mountain on 1:23:45.080 --> 1:23:51.559 our hunt, just like your camping. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um 1:23:51.800 --> 1:23:54.880 So we spend four days, four nights hunting off our back. 1:23:55.840 --> 1:24:02.720 Uh Phil kills will they fourth day? Um so we're 1:24:02.840 --> 1:24:08.760 archery hunting the first four days. Rifle season starts October one, 1:24:09.439 --> 1:24:11.639 so we have to go back to our truck camp 1:24:12.200 --> 1:24:16.080 switch out bows for rifles. And of course everybody knows, 1:24:16.400 --> 1:24:20.040 you know, that archery seasons over rifle season starting. So 1:24:20.720 --> 1:24:23.280 they all, when I say, they all the ranch law 1:24:23.360 --> 1:24:26.080 enforcement whoever, they just set up and waited for us, 1:24:26.760 --> 1:24:29.280 you know, to come in that evening. And so we 1:24:29.360 --> 1:24:31.640 get that they know both seasons over correct, you know. 1:24:31.680 --> 1:24:33.360 So it's a logical time we're gonna come back to 1:24:33.360 --> 1:24:38.120 our camp. So we get to the corner, we take 1:24:38.160 --> 1:24:40.800 our ladder, we go up and over the corner. We 1:24:40.920 --> 1:24:43.200 see trucks parked over here on the county road, and 1:24:43.240 --> 1:24:45.840 trucks parked over there on the county road with our 1:24:45.920 --> 1:24:48.680 camp in the middle. We know these trucks you know, 1:24:48.760 --> 1:24:52.240 we've seen them their ranch employees like you guys are 1:24:52.240 --> 1:24:54.679 gonna quick pack up all that stuff and all house. 1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:56.880 You know, I don't know what they're thinking. They just 1:24:56.920 --> 1:24:59.200 don't like us there. And then the landowner is a 1:24:59.439 --> 1:25:04.600 is a far parmaceutical feller, right where is he from? 1:25:04.880 --> 1:25:07.880 North Carolina? North Carolina. He made a bunch of money 1:25:07.880 --> 1:25:11.680 in pharmaceuticals and bought that ranch. Huh, that's the way 1:25:11.720 --> 1:25:14.800 we understand it. Do you know they don't do any 1:25:14.840 --> 1:25:17.519 outfit in or guiding on that, not that I know 1:25:17.560 --> 1:25:19.920 of the research I'd done on the ranch is the 1:25:20.000 --> 1:25:24.240 previous owner had some outfitting. But this guy I think 1:25:24.280 --> 1:25:28.200 just uses it as his private hunting oasis. You know. 1:25:28.320 --> 1:25:35.280 Don't blame him. Yeah, awesome, good for him. Whatever. So 1:25:36.600 --> 1:25:39.439 we crossed the corner. We're walking to our truck. I 1:25:39.560 --> 1:25:41.559 just happened to turn and look up and I see 1:25:42.240 --> 1:25:44.799 dark green trucks sitting up on the up on the mountain. 1:25:45.439 --> 1:25:48.160 Assume it's a conservation agent, you know by his truck. 1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:51.400 Tell the guys, hey, conservation agents is watching us, you know, 1:25:51.439 --> 1:25:54.400 And we talked about that's we we wanted them there. 1:25:54.479 --> 1:25:57.639 That's good because we can see these other guys staking 1:25:57.720 --> 1:26:01.880 us out. We're wanting helped for a confrontation. That was 1:26:01.920 --> 1:26:05.360 one of the mouse to UM. We get to our camp. 1:26:05.400 --> 1:26:12.000 It went in five minutes. Conservation guy pulls in, UM 1:26:12.080 --> 1:26:16.240 and he's just smiling and laughing. He's like, I cannot 1:26:16.280 --> 1:26:21.880 believe you guys built the ladder. You know. He's like, 1:26:21.960 --> 1:26:24.120 I even called my neighbor and said, you're not gonna 1:26:24.120 --> 1:26:27.559 believe these guys built a freaking ladder, you know, to 1:26:27.600 --> 1:26:30.960 go over this corner. And we're like, yeah, we knew 1:26:30.960 --> 1:26:34.519 what we had to do. He's like, well, I'm calling 1:26:34.560 --> 1:26:38.280 in deputies the ranch. We're all gonna have a meeting, 1:26:39.000 --> 1:26:41.519 and we're all gonna get on the same page, you know, 1:26:41.600 --> 1:26:46.360 with what's going on here. Um. So we're like great, so, 1:26:46.439 --> 1:26:48.840 and this was all we we We were in our tent. 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:50.719 We maybe even ask him be on supper or something 1:26:51.320 --> 1:26:56.160 and supper drinks whatever. The deputy showed up, he goes 1:26:56.200 --> 1:27:00.439 outside the tent. We stayed in our tent. They go 1:27:00.479 --> 1:27:03.720 out have a meeting. However, along with that CEO and 1:27:03.720 --> 1:27:07.920 the deputy. Yeah, yeah, two deputies. I picked that one. 1:27:08.120 --> 1:27:11.479 All the law enforcements getting there and the speed on 1:27:11.520 --> 1:27:14.120 what's going on, and the ranch manager, Oh so he's 1:27:14.120 --> 1:27:17.400 got their ear then is there? Which is the famous 1:27:17.640 --> 1:27:21.679 body cam video of him making an idiot of himself. 1:27:22.600 --> 1:27:24.800 But and he was the one kind of threatening law 1:27:24.920 --> 1:27:27.920 enforcement with do you know who my correct you know 1:27:27.960 --> 1:27:30.120 who my boss is? You know how much land he 1:27:30.160 --> 1:27:38.640 owns he has? I mean, it's but we don't know 1:27:38.680 --> 1:27:40.880 any of that's going on. It's a brutal deal too, 1:27:41.040 --> 1:27:44.639 like it's it's it is an important part of the picture, 1:27:45.120 --> 1:27:47.320 but it also has nothing to do with the picture. 1:27:47.400 --> 1:27:51.120 But it's about fifty square miles of private land. It's 1:27:51.120 --> 1:27:55.559 a lot. And how much uh, how much did you 1:27:55.600 --> 1:28:02.400 guys figure you hunted of public land during your the 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:07.080 season of confrontation will call it like eight sections something 1:28:07.160 --> 1:28:10.799 like that. You can't have eight sections within eight sections 1:28:10.840 --> 1:28:15.120 of public that he has the fifty thou of privates. 1:28:15.439 --> 1:28:17.479 I'd have to look on a map. But that's that's 1:28:17.479 --> 1:28:22.280 pretty maybe something like that which you stepped foot in, right, 1:28:22.960 --> 1:28:27.599 You didn't grid eight sections, which would be eight square 1:28:27.640 --> 1:28:31.920 miles were calling and hunting camping, Yeah, and we didn't. 1:28:31.920 --> 1:28:35.160 We didn't grid it, but we covered that many sections, 1:28:35.640 --> 1:28:39.439 you know, from top to bottom basically made a horse 1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:43.000 shoe up the mountain and back down as one does 1:28:45.080 --> 1:28:58.920 picture you were hunting. So we're sitting there in our 1:28:59.000 --> 1:29:02.920 tent after they have their meeting and they say we're 1:29:02.920 --> 1:29:05.400 gonna go have it. We're gonna go confer and then 1:29:05.439 --> 1:29:09.679 we'll come visit with you. That was the initial conversation 1:29:09.760 --> 1:29:13.920 that we had. We never talked to the deputies. They 1:29:13.960 --> 1:29:16.760 never came and spoke one word to us. Do you 1:29:16.760 --> 1:29:20.839 guys still have meat on the mountain from yes, yes, 1:29:20.880 --> 1:29:22.920 because as as at this point, we only had the 1:29:22.920 --> 1:29:25.960 one bull down, correct, and you pack some of it out, 1:29:26.000 --> 1:29:28.800 but not the rest. We hung it all. It was 1:29:29.760 --> 1:29:32.280 we we hung that whole bull. Yeah, we didn't bring 1:29:32.280 --> 1:29:34.240 out because we had our all of our baby and 1:29:34.280 --> 1:29:39.920 all of our everyone. He was skinned Cordon and hunter Tree. 1:29:41.000 --> 1:29:44.120 Game Warden walks back into our tent and says, okay, 1:29:44.160 --> 1:29:48.120 we've had a meeting. Um, he says, guys, it's public land, 1:29:48.160 --> 1:29:52.040 it's your land. Go hunt again. Yeah, this is a 1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:58.040 different game Warden. They switched game Wardens from two one 1:29:58.240 --> 1:30:00.920 and then and he comes to the same thing losing. Yeah, 1:30:00.960 --> 1:30:05.360 he just the deputies. Deputies never came and talk to us. 1:30:05.400 --> 1:30:07.960 But if you watch that video there pointing there they're 1:30:08.000 --> 1:30:10.600 crossed pointing to fingers at each other. Uh, you know 1:30:10.640 --> 1:30:12.760 it's my instruction that you handle this. No, it's it's 1:30:12.760 --> 1:30:17.280 our instructor you handle this. So with the ranch manager 1:30:17.360 --> 1:30:21.040 right there right, you know, to do something right. But 1:30:21.240 --> 1:30:23.240 at the time, we didn't know any of this, you know, 1:30:23.280 --> 1:30:25.439 we're just sitting in our you know, because the body came, 1:30:25.800 --> 1:30:29.400 which is which is public all later and got to 1:30:29.400 --> 1:30:32.000 be a part of this meeting with the CEO and 1:30:32.040 --> 1:30:34.880 the correct and he's saying do something, to do something 1:30:34.920 --> 1:30:38.240 correct because somebody's behind him being like, you better do something. 1:30:38.240 --> 1:30:40.639 That's your job correct. And then and then he wants 1:30:40.680 --> 1:30:43.200 to he wants to play like he's safety ranger because 1:30:43.640 --> 1:30:46.519 you know, it's my concern that these we got hunters 1:30:46.560 --> 1:30:50.320 coming in tomorrow, they're gonna shoot anything they see. You know, 1:30:51.200 --> 1:30:56.280 we wanted over these guys right right, kind of paints 1:30:56.360 --> 1:31:00.720 North Carolina hunters in a bad, bad light, and North 1:31:00.760 --> 1:31:02.960 Carolina they come out here to win and shoot anything 1:31:02.960 --> 1:31:08.040 they see. So the gist of it was though, because 1:31:08.080 --> 1:31:11.960 we had had a conversation with the law enforcement the 1:31:12.000 --> 1:31:14.960 year before, you know, we were really trying to get 1:31:15.000 --> 1:31:20.320 it clear and down to not have a conversation when 1:31:20.360 --> 1:31:22.800 you're out there trying so we could hunt, because that's 1:31:22.840 --> 1:31:27.200 really all we care about. And so I questioned the 1:31:27.280 --> 1:31:29.679 game ward and I said, did you tell the ranch 1:31:29.920 --> 1:31:35.439 this I wanted to question, And he says yes. I 1:31:35.520 --> 1:31:37.960 told him it's public land. You guys are going right 1:31:37.960 --> 1:31:42.080 back in there. And that's when he asked us, the 1:31:42.240 --> 1:31:46.000 ranch wants to know where you're going to be, really 1:31:47.160 --> 1:31:51.920 and for safety, for safety, which you could say, it's 1:31:52.040 --> 1:31:55.120 really none of their business, and that's pretty much what 1:31:55.200 --> 1:31:57.360 I said. I said, we're gonna be on all the 1:31:57.400 --> 1:32:01.240 public sections on the mountain south of where we were, 1:32:01.560 --> 1:32:04.439 and I said we will work our way south and 1:32:04.640 --> 1:32:08.120 west in the morning, which is a lot of information 1:32:08.880 --> 1:32:11.679 more than I wanted to give, you know, but that's 1:32:11.680 --> 1:32:14.759 what I did, and that's what we've done. Next morning 1:32:15.479 --> 1:32:18.639 we get up and I can't remember if that next morning, 1:32:18.680 --> 1:32:22.840 I believe we had those same two trucks sitting on 1:32:22.880 --> 1:32:26.679 the county road watching us still the next morning, after 1:32:26.760 --> 1:32:30.360 they were told by the game warden that we were 1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:32.880 public land hunters going and hunting public land, to leave 1:32:32.920 --> 1:32:37.400 us alone. And so we go up the mountain, we 1:32:37.479 --> 1:32:41.040 spot mule deer. Zach our hunting buddy has a mule 1:32:41.080 --> 1:32:45.200 deer tag. A side by side comes driving up there 1:32:45.240 --> 1:32:50.040 on private land. But they come driving up within a 1:32:50.120 --> 1:32:53.280 couple hundred feet of us on the public They are no. 1:32:53.640 --> 1:32:57.679 They stayed on. You know, we're following a line east 1:32:57.760 --> 1:33:02.240 and west. Um, we're watching the mule deer. They pull up, 1:33:02.920 --> 1:33:05.439 let's say, beside us a couple feet and just shut 1:33:05.479 --> 1:33:09.360 the side beside off and just stand there and watch us. Um. 1:33:09.439 --> 1:33:11.640 We're wearing orange, you know, we're not trying to wear 1:33:11.680 --> 1:33:14.040 on a wide open hillside behind a big rock. Hard 1:33:14.080 --> 1:33:17.240 to find, you not hard to find at all. Um. 1:33:17.360 --> 1:33:20.240 We don't know if they've even seen the deer, you know. 1:33:20.360 --> 1:33:24.920 But eventually they started the machine and took off. We 1:33:25.080 --> 1:33:28.639 go on up over the deer, go over the lip. 1:33:29.400 --> 1:33:32.720 We presume we end up zach Kills. You know that 1:33:32.800 --> 1:33:35.599 mule deer. We haul it back to camp that day. 1:33:36.520 --> 1:33:41.760 So we get back to camp mid afternoon, early afternoon. 1:33:42.920 --> 1:33:45.880 Not time to go back up the mountain again. So 1:33:45.920 --> 1:33:50.480 we stay at our truck camp that day. Um. They 1:33:50.920 --> 1:33:55.080 next morning, I don't believe anything happened. The next morning, 1:33:55.320 --> 1:33:59.040 nobody's there watching us and we go back up the 1:33:59.040 --> 1:34:02.800 mountain again, get in on some elk. I killed a 1:34:02.880 --> 1:34:08.080 bull that morning. Um, we packed your elk, hung my elk. 1:34:09.040 --> 1:34:15.720 Long day, huge day because we crossed multiple canyons. We 1:34:15.720 --> 1:34:18.439 were tuckered out when we got back that night. When 1:34:18.439 --> 1:34:20.840 you're doing it right, you don't take the yeah, the 1:34:21.120 --> 1:34:25.400 ridge road. Um, yeah, you guys, because you guys are 1:34:25.400 --> 1:34:28.680 prevented from taking a straight line of travel because you 1:34:28.760 --> 1:34:31.320 got to adhere to the public section. And we laugh 1:34:31.320 --> 1:34:33.680 about we have pictures of all those corners. Every time 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:35.240 we come to New corn we take a picture of it, 1:34:35.280 --> 1:34:38.600 just proved we've been there. Because I bet you we 1:34:38.760 --> 1:34:41.360 laughed about this. There's nobody been in a lot of 1:34:41.360 --> 1:34:43.519 in the corners since the surveyor put that stake there, 1:34:43.960 --> 1:34:48.320 because I mean they are in some hellish, hellish places, 1:34:48.439 --> 1:34:51.320 wild wild the places you find them. Yeah, And we 1:34:51.439 --> 1:34:54.400 brought full elk out on our backs across those corners. 1:34:55.880 --> 1:35:00.200 So pack your elk out, have and part of line, 1:35:00.240 --> 1:35:05.680 I believe, yeah, and come back down the mountain. We 1:35:05.720 --> 1:35:09.040 rest the next day. We don't do nothing, and we 1:35:09.120 --> 1:35:14.080 have ranch vehicles stake us out and basically watch us 1:35:14.120 --> 1:35:17.160 in our camp all day. The hell are these people 1:35:17.200 --> 1:35:24.000 supposed to be doing. Ranch's killing me this whole time? Right, 1:35:24.200 --> 1:35:28.000 You think of the enormity of the property, and I 1:35:28.120 --> 1:35:30.760 just can't help but wonder what the hell else is 1:35:30.840 --> 1:35:35.599 going on? God animal wise, like the elk and deer 1:35:35.680 --> 1:35:40.120 and antelope playing on the other you know, forty two 1:35:40.160 --> 1:35:49.040 sections of landed, right, So where are we at. They're 1:35:49.160 --> 1:35:53.280 surveying camp they're watching us camping, they're counting your cards. Yeah, 1:35:53.560 --> 1:35:56.640 we're not doing anything but laying around being lazy, recouping 1:35:57.520 --> 1:36:01.200 um the ext What do we have? We have a 1:36:01.240 --> 1:36:03.800 partial elk to go pack out right, the rest of 1:36:03.800 --> 1:36:06.760 the remaining euro olk. Yeah, so we're going back up 1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:12.080 the mountain. These guys one truck that believe that morning, right, 1:36:12.800 --> 1:36:14.880 we could back up a little bit. We did have 1:36:14.920 --> 1:36:20.880 a confrontation with them, if you want to tell well, 1:36:20.880 --> 1:36:23.080 it was that it was that day, right, so we 1:36:23.080 --> 1:36:25.000 we couldn't go to the bathroom. We got We got 1:36:25.000 --> 1:36:27.479 a truck on one end watching us, and a guy 1:36:27.600 --> 1:36:29.680 right above our tent watching us. You can't even go 1:36:29.720 --> 1:36:38.840 and relieve yourself, Yeah, without exposing yourself. He got his 1:36:38.880 --> 1:36:41.960 penis out and waving it around. I was staring at 1:36:42.000 --> 1:36:46.000 him through my ten by fifties. So we head to 1:36:46.040 --> 1:36:49.800 the local convenience store to to let our buddy John 1:36:49.880 --> 1:36:52.880 use the restroom and get a little ice cream and 1:36:52.880 --> 1:36:56.680 and whatnot. Um, but the white truck that's watching us 1:36:56.880 --> 1:36:59.880 as we drive away. He starts driving away, but we're 1:37:00.240 --> 1:37:05.639 we're gonna pass each other. Brad stops him pretty pretty. 1:37:05.640 --> 1:37:09.840 Brentley just said, ask him, are you watching us? Guys like, no, 1:37:09.960 --> 1:37:13.679 I'm watching. Well, what are you doing? I'm scouting? Brad's 1:37:13.680 --> 1:37:17.439 a little clear on this. Uh. I asked him if 1:37:17.479 --> 1:37:22.080 he had permission, you know, is if you're scouting, you 1:37:22.160 --> 1:37:24.479 must have permission. Hunt. Do you have permission? He says no, 1:37:25.960 --> 1:37:28.680 and said what are you scouting for? He's like, well, well, 1:37:28.720 --> 1:37:30.800 first he said he was scouting for the next week, 1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:34.840 and I said, do you have permission? He says no. 1:37:35.520 --> 1:37:38.799 I said what are you scouting for? He says, well, 1:37:38.840 --> 1:37:43.519 across the road is a public cow area and um, 1:37:43.560 --> 1:37:48.400 I said, well that season is not till December in January, 1:37:48.520 --> 1:37:50.760 and he's like, we'll have a good day and took off. 1:37:52.520 --> 1:37:54.960 And so that was kind of He's on the radio 1:37:55.040 --> 1:37:58.640 going now if they ask you this, right, but you 1:37:58.640 --> 1:38:00.599 can tell that they had a little bit story. Hey, 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:03.280 if they talk to you, just say you're scouting. You know, 1:38:03.960 --> 1:38:07.800 they're supposed to be just making your stay miserable. Yeah, exactly. 1:38:07.840 --> 1:38:11.639 They're just pestering us, is what they're doing. And so 1:38:12.280 --> 1:38:15.240 that was that. The next morning, we still have this 1:38:15.320 --> 1:38:18.200 elp to get out, but we're feeling good. We're heading 1:38:18.280 --> 1:38:21.840 up the mountain. I gotta ask you a question. I'll 1:38:21.880 --> 1:38:23.760 forget later, but I should. I should ask it later, 1:38:23.800 --> 1:38:26.960 but i'll forget. Have you guys thought about doing anything 1:38:27.120 --> 1:38:30.840 civil against the people who are ruining your time and 1:38:31.080 --> 1:38:36.839 obstructing your ability to hunt like a hunter? Harassment ahead? Alright? 1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:39.599 We we wrote statements, but that's not up to us 1:38:39.600 --> 1:38:41.760 to whether charges are brought us. But but I mean, 1:38:41.800 --> 1:38:45.439 are you will like there? Have you considered taking legal 1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:51.800 action against someone who's intimidating you know, we had a 1:38:51.840 --> 1:38:56.200 discussion civilly whether to do something civil. I don't know 1:38:56.240 --> 1:38:59.120 that it's worth it, simply because the way we hunt, 1:38:59.120 --> 1:39:02.360 we don't spend that much money. I mean, that's the 1:39:02.400 --> 1:39:04.720 honest to God's truth. We don't have guides, you know, 1:39:04.840 --> 1:39:08.360 we don't have big expenses. We and so I believe 1:39:08.400 --> 1:39:12.360 the Wyoming law tells you what you can recoup, which 1:39:12.439 --> 1:39:20.000 is your tag Um, if someone's intimidating you, does it 1:39:20.040 --> 1:39:22.240 have to be that you suffered financially. There's not like 1:39:22.280 --> 1:39:25.519 a thing like just general intimidation. So there is a 1:39:25.720 --> 1:39:28.800 law of hunter harassment. That doesn't need to be that 1:39:28.840 --> 1:39:31.760 you lost money. Correct, But to do it civilly, for 1:39:31.840 --> 1:39:33.880 us to push something, we would have to do it 1:39:33.880 --> 1:39:38.360 in a civil manner. Otherwise it's a criminal thing. And 1:39:38.400 --> 1:39:40.840 so what we've done, like you're saying, the criminal thing 1:39:40.880 --> 1:39:42.880 isn't up to you. Correct. The criminal thing would be 1:39:42.960 --> 1:39:47.120 someone would determine, a prosecutor in that county would determine, 1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:49.120 I'm going to go after the people who are harassing 1:39:49.160 --> 1:39:52.720 these individuals criminally exactly, and so that's up to them. 1:39:52.840 --> 1:39:56.760 We we wrote our statements all individually of our experience 1:39:56.800 --> 1:40:00.600 of being harassed by this ranch anywhere one. Whether that 1:40:00.640 --> 1:40:04.920 prosecutor is going to pursue that, no, what's your what's 1:40:04.920 --> 1:40:09.880 your gut instinct? No, we turned it in. Um, we 1:40:10.000 --> 1:40:13.040 turned it into the game warden. Game Warden told me 1:40:13.080 --> 1:40:16.639 that he turned it into the prosecutor. Prosecutor told game 1:40:16.640 --> 1:40:20.920 Warden that we'll wait and see how the criminal thing 1:40:21.040 --> 1:40:25.400 pans out, Well, the criminal thing is panned out, you know, 1:40:25.640 --> 1:40:30.080 not guilty. But we haven't heard anymore on the civil 1:40:30.160 --> 1:40:34.760 on the harassment issue. That's really interesting. Man, if he 1:40:34.800 --> 1:40:38.040 can if that and I don't know him from anybody, 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:43.400 but it's interesting if that prosecutor can just decide that 1:40:43.479 --> 1:40:46.360 he doesn't want to do anything about hunter harassment in 1:40:46.479 --> 1:40:52.519 his county. It's a but I think they have that 1:40:52.600 --> 1:40:57.840 soul power. That's interesting. Are you cool with hunter harassment 1:40:57.880 --> 1:41:00.080 in your county or are you not cool with it? 1:41:00.439 --> 1:41:02.960 Maybe it comes down to what that harassment is, Like 1:41:03.160 --> 1:41:09.200 it's impeding there. It's a fair documentation, but is it 1:41:09.400 --> 1:41:11.760 impeding their ability to hunt? I mean, who knows how 1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:13.760 they define it. It gets a little better, it gets 1:41:13.800 --> 1:41:16.679 a little better. Well just at this point, right, like 1:41:18.120 --> 1:41:22.200 just that is more than a lot of people would 1:41:22.240 --> 1:41:25.000 stand like sure, you know, because just like you said, 1:41:25.040 --> 1:41:28.559 like what you guys want to do is hunt. Dealing 1:41:28.600 --> 1:41:32.880 with people in these confrontational manners is not hunting, right, 1:41:32.920 --> 1:41:35.280 That's not like Okay, when I go out to hunt, 1:41:35.360 --> 1:41:38.160 I know there's going to be this big confrontation and 1:41:38.200 --> 1:41:42.160 then I'm gonna go do go have a nice walk 1:41:43.120 --> 1:41:45.799 alone and next year I need to bring my ladder 1:41:45.920 --> 1:41:50.759 and my little outhouse shelter. I could pee in private, 1:41:51.080 --> 1:41:56.960 get a lawyer on retainer. Yeah, okay, not exactly the goal. No, 1:41:57.280 --> 1:41:59.920 you know, so we're going up the mountain to reach 1:42:00.040 --> 1:42:03.360 you the last of this elk, and we knew we 1:42:03.360 --> 1:42:05.559 were being watched from the same guy in the same truck. 1:42:06.560 --> 1:42:09.360 And you go straight up a mountain and you peek 1:42:09.880 --> 1:42:12.400 and you hit a road. It's on the BLM that 1:42:12.439 --> 1:42:14.720 goes across the middle that they used this road a lot. 1:42:14.800 --> 1:42:17.680 It's a ranch road, and we see the ball of 1:42:17.800 --> 1:42:21.679 dust coming, you know, from the ranch. Manager comes flying 1:42:21.720 --> 1:42:25.720 across the ranch and he drives right up to us 1:42:25.720 --> 1:42:29.960 and goes, what the fuck m But he just had 1:42:30.080 --> 1:42:32.280 enough at this point. That's the first words out of 1:42:32.280 --> 1:42:37.719 his mouth. You know, what are you guys doing here? Um? 1:42:37.800 --> 1:42:42.160 And I simply tell him we were told we could 1:42:42.160 --> 1:42:45.960 be here, you know, three days ago the game warden 1:42:46.040 --> 1:42:48.240 told us it was public land. He told you the 1:42:48.280 --> 1:42:51.400 same thing, it's publicly and we're going to hunt. We 1:42:51.479 --> 1:42:54.400 got a bull we're gonna go get. We're standing in 1:42:54.400 --> 1:42:57.559 the middle of a BLM section. Because he actually he 1:42:57.680 --> 1:43:01.960 ordered us back to camp get back to camp. The landowner, 1:43:02.240 --> 1:43:06.559 the landowner manager, the ranch managed, the representative of and 1:43:06.680 --> 1:43:09.240 you were like, you were you guys were on public land. 1:43:09.280 --> 1:43:15.320 He was on, yeah, we're in the middle of you know. 1:43:16.360 --> 1:43:20.040 And he's like, you get back to your camp and no, 1:43:20.920 --> 1:43:24.760 you know or what right? He just said no? And 1:43:24.800 --> 1:43:26.599 I said, where you got a note to go get 1:43:27.360 --> 1:43:31.080 I'm done talking to you. We're going. And so we did. 1:43:32.160 --> 1:43:36.479 And so this this road, you know, kind of makes 1:43:36.520 --> 1:43:39.800 a makes a big bend that goes I measured it's 1:43:39.840 --> 1:43:43.439 like seven hundred yards, I believe. And he followed. He 1:43:43.439 --> 1:43:49.120 turns around and follows us within twenty yards of us 1:43:49.160 --> 1:43:51.880 in his truck, creeping, creeping down the road and walking 1:43:51.920 --> 1:43:57.360 in f um. So we cut a corner. Good way 1:43:57.400 --> 1:43:58.880 to get you guys out of there. Would be gonna 1:43:58.880 --> 1:44:00.719 pick up that elk and help you back to camp. 1:44:01.439 --> 1:44:04.439 You would, wouldn't that be a neighborly thing and you'd 1:44:04.439 --> 1:44:08.719 be out of there gone, Yeah, right, that's your last tag. 1:44:08.920 --> 1:44:11.519 Well see you next year. We had asked him to 1:44:11.560 --> 1:44:15.600 do that the year prior, and he kindly declined. I 1:44:15.640 --> 1:44:17.320 did ask him a year before, Hey, you want to 1:44:17.320 --> 1:44:18.800 help us all this out? And He's like, no, I 1:44:18.800 --> 1:44:23.920 can't do that. So finally we have enough, right, and 1:44:24.040 --> 1:44:29.000 so we stopped. I waved him forward, you know, and go, dude, 1:44:29.240 --> 1:44:32.400 you're harassing us. You know, you can't follow us in 1:44:32.439 --> 1:44:35.479 your truck across the middle of public land. We're trying 1:44:35.479 --> 1:44:40.519 to hunt. Get out of here, leave us alone. Um, 1:44:40.600 --> 1:44:42.880 And he's go ahead, Phil, you tell this part of 1:44:42.920 --> 1:44:49.599 it better than I do. Oh gosh, you questioned him. Yeah, 1:44:49.600 --> 1:44:53.800 I just he said. He he said, well, I'm hunting. Well, 1:44:53.800 --> 1:44:57.000 where's your orange? He kind of looks behind us, you know, 1:44:57.120 --> 1:45:02.320 does a head whip, you know, and uh, Zack says, uh, 1:45:02.600 --> 1:45:04.880 it's not legal to hunt from your truck either, is it? 1:45:06.360 --> 1:45:09.000 And he can say he says, I can do whatever 1:45:09.040 --> 1:45:13.320 the I I want? Right, is exactly what he said. Really, 1:45:14.720 --> 1:45:18.479 do you guys we're reading film any of this stuff 1:45:18.479 --> 1:45:21.519 with your phones or anything? No, no, no, it was 1:45:23.160 --> 1:45:27.479 you don't think of that crap. And you're just a 1:45:27.560 --> 1:45:29.640 little bit you're just wanting to get You don't know 1:45:29.680 --> 1:45:32.840 what's legal either, you know, probably do that stuff. But 1:45:33.400 --> 1:45:37.599 we actually read him the attorney general's opinion. We did, right. 1:45:38.720 --> 1:45:42.080 I forgot about that. John did. Yeah, And he had 1:45:42.120 --> 1:45:44.360 never seen that before, or he acted like he had 1:45:44.360 --> 1:45:46.080 never seen that before, and he just did a lot 1:45:46.080 --> 1:45:49.400 of head nodding and okay, yeah, but I can do 1:45:49.439 --> 1:45:55.760 whatever the right. Yeah. So after that confrontation, we take 1:45:55.800 --> 1:45:57.639 off again. I don't know, did we get a half 1:45:57.720 --> 1:46:04.680 mile maybe phone rings it's the warden. Yeah, he says, Hey, 1:46:04.200 --> 1:46:06.320 I hate to do this, but I gotta ask you 1:46:06.320 --> 1:46:09.640 guys to get back to camp. He's the phones are 1:46:09.640 --> 1:46:13.640 blowing up all over the place, press quterer's offices. You know, 1:46:13.720 --> 1:46:17.280 there'll be a deputy. Uh, go to your camp till 1:46:17.320 --> 1:46:21.120 you till you hear from me. But meat on the mountain, 1:46:22.080 --> 1:46:25.040 we should trump everything. And he knows this. The game 1:46:25.080 --> 1:46:28.920 wardened us and he was super nice to us, very professional, 1:46:29.040 --> 1:46:35.600 pleasant through everything, everything kind of we had with him. Um, 1:46:35.640 --> 1:46:37.240 so we do we turn around and go back to 1:46:37.280 --> 1:46:41.000 our camp. It wasn't too long. A deputy shows up, 1:46:41.840 --> 1:46:45.120 you know, and he's getting super nice and it's kind 1:46:45.160 --> 1:46:49.439 of lighthearted about it and says, hey, I got called 1:46:49.479 --> 1:46:51.840 on this trespassing thing on this corner deal. But you 1:46:51.920 --> 1:46:56.160 guys are just corner crossing, right, And we're like, yeah, 1:46:56.280 --> 1:46:58.880 we're those guys. He's like, that's what I thought when 1:46:58.880 --> 1:47:00.840 I got the call, I thought it was the same guys. 1:47:00.840 --> 1:47:02.920 We it was you guys you know that we've got 1:47:02.920 --> 1:47:05.680 called on before and you're just corner crossing. So he's like, 1:47:05.720 --> 1:47:10.120 go hunt again again. They wanted to go back down 1:47:10.120 --> 1:47:13.200 to your camp. His exact words is go hunt. And 1:47:13.240 --> 1:47:16.000 I'm like, well, game Warden told us to come hang 1:47:16.000 --> 1:47:19.280 out here, So we're gonna hang out here, you know, 1:47:19.320 --> 1:47:22.000 because that's what he's like, Yeah, that's probably smart. You know, 1:47:22.080 --> 1:47:24.600 that's what the game warn't asked you to do. So 1:47:24.640 --> 1:47:29.679 that's what we've done until that evening. Um another deputy show. 1:47:29.760 --> 1:47:33.639 The deputy shows up and says, he instructed to ask 1:47:33.760 --> 1:47:38.040 you guys citations. But he instructed who by his boss? 1:47:38.160 --> 1:47:42.000 His boss who take that for? Whoever you want to 1:47:42.000 --> 1:47:45.240 take that for. Whether that's the sheriff, for the prosecutor, 1:47:46.000 --> 1:47:49.600 I don't know, but he was ordered to come give us. 1:47:49.960 --> 1:47:53.080 In the background, someone's working political lines here, a lot 1:47:53.080 --> 1:47:57.599 of phone calls the governor. No one would assume you know, 1:47:57.680 --> 1:47:59.479 we know what we know, you know the rest of it. 1:47:59.520 --> 1:48:04.479 We're assumed, man, you know. So I questioned him, you know, 1:48:04.520 --> 1:48:07.759 how did we trespass? And he wouldn't answer any questions. 1:48:08.160 --> 1:48:11.559 He just said, you gotta tell the judge, asked the judge, 1:48:11.720 --> 1:48:15.439 and in the end it was that you're you went 1:48:15.560 --> 1:48:18.920 through the air of that person's land. In the end, 1:48:19.920 --> 1:48:24.519 that's apparently with the argument, because no one that that's 1:48:24.520 --> 1:48:26.760 the thing I think it is. It's so obvious I 1:48:26.800 --> 1:48:28.679 hesitate to bring it up. But what we're talking about 1:48:28.720 --> 1:48:31.400 here is it's like it's funny because we're talking about 1:48:32.560 --> 1:48:36.679 h it's about one thing, but we're talking about another thing. 1:48:36.920 --> 1:48:40.680 What it's about is that you have a bunch of 1:48:40.680 --> 1:48:45.719 private land to yourself because it's land locked. Yeah, I'm sorry, 1:48:45.720 --> 1:48:47.360 you have a bunch of public land that only you 1:48:47.400 --> 1:48:49.439 can hunt. That's what this is about. You want to 1:48:49.520 --> 1:48:52.000 keep it that way because it's sweet. But what you 1:48:52.000 --> 1:48:54.800 got to talk about instead is this issue of that 1:48:54.920 --> 1:48:59.200 your body is crossing when you do that that one step, 1:49:00.280 --> 1:49:03.240 you're violating their airspace. And they're acting like they're they're 1:49:03.240 --> 1:49:05.519 sort of saying like, no I care about the airspace. 1:49:05.600 --> 1:49:08.120 They never go like I'm trying to preserve private hunting. Yeah, 1:49:08.120 --> 1:49:10.720 that's just smoke, you know. It's it's like one of 1:49:10.720 --> 1:49:12.439 those weird things where but then you get to go 1:49:12.520 --> 1:49:16.479 to court, and in court they can't say, well, I'm 1:49:16.479 --> 1:49:18.320 trying to have this kind of sweet deal that I 1:49:18.320 --> 1:49:20.600 don't really pay for, but it's sweet, so I just 1:49:20.600 --> 1:49:22.919 want to keep it that way. They gotta like focusing 1:49:23.000 --> 1:49:26.160 on his airspace on airspace saying well, and all of 1:49:26.280 --> 1:49:29.759 our encounters with law enforcement were always on our side, 1:49:30.680 --> 1:49:33.800 you know, but you could tell that they were being 1:49:33.840 --> 1:49:37.559 pushed from other directions. What's confusing to me is like 1:49:37.600 --> 1:49:40.840 I've always known that you're not supposed to do that, 1:49:40.880 --> 1:49:43.160 at least by rule, but it doesn't sound like the 1:49:43.200 --> 1:49:46.960 conservation officers approached at that with state by state keep 1:49:47.000 --> 1:49:49.400 in mind, right so, and even within the state of 1:49:49.439 --> 1:49:52.880 Montana that on paper has a stricter view of what 1:49:53.000 --> 1:49:58.480 corner crossing is, there are counties that will not prosecute 1:49:58.520 --> 1:50:01.680 corner crossing like it is too much of a quagmire, 1:50:02.160 --> 1:50:06.680 it's not defined well enough. Yeah, the time of the 1:50:06.720 --> 1:50:09.160 court is too valuable to have to wade through this, 1:50:09.960 --> 1:50:11.880 and they want to punt it to a higher court, 1:50:12.360 --> 1:50:17.120 which is interesting England enough. One way that can be 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:19.600 seen how this case is is going here with the 1:50:19.960 --> 1:50:24.439 civil suit has been punted up or grabbed however, you 1:50:24.479 --> 1:50:30.719 want to see it by the federal magistrate. So when 1:50:30.920 --> 1:50:33.760 when agents are going through the academy, this isn't an 1:50:33.760 --> 1:50:38.559 issue that they're being schooled on. I'm sure that, like 1:50:38.760 --> 1:50:40.400 do they look like they have a bunch of drugs 1:50:40.400 --> 1:50:43.800 in their truck? If so, this corner crossing thing would 1:50:43.800 --> 1:50:46.439 probably be something you'd want to pay attention to. I 1:50:46.439 --> 1:50:49.280 think game wardens are like, this is a this is 1:50:49.280 --> 1:50:53.280 not our we don't we don't oversee this. This is 1:50:53.320 --> 1:50:57.120 for the county sheriff. Their trespassed to hunt man. I 1:50:57.160 --> 1:51:00.519 missed out on some good hunting over the years. Well, 1:51:00.920 --> 1:51:03.799 the the way we understand it, the game and phishes 1:51:03.880 --> 1:51:06.720 right on their website. You know, Attorney general's opinion is 1:51:06.760 --> 1:51:10.360 it's not illegal. So when you tell me you just 1:51:10.360 --> 1:51:12.320 always knew you weren't supposed to do that. How did 1:51:12.320 --> 1:51:15.920 you know that? What did you read that said I can't. 1:51:16.080 --> 1:51:19.640 That's a great question. In this state, they they recommend 1:51:19.680 --> 1:51:22.560 against it. Yeah, that's I think. Even on wyomings it 1:51:22.600 --> 1:51:26.639 says we recommend you don't, but it's not codified as illegal. 1:51:26.680 --> 1:51:30.400 It doesn't say they don't recommend. Most of my Western 1:51:30.439 --> 1:51:33.160 hunting was in the Eastern part of Montana and out there. 1:51:33.720 --> 1:51:36.600 I mean, you just know not to because it's recommended 1:51:36.640 --> 1:51:40.200 against it. So I had a conversation with a BLM 1:51:40.280 --> 1:51:45.800 law enforcement officer about an area that we were going 1:51:45.840 --> 1:51:49.040 to take a helicopter into, and he flat out said, 1:51:49.080 --> 1:51:51.880 well why would you do that? Guys walk into that 1:51:51.960 --> 1:51:54.840 all the time from this road. Well that's a good point. 1:51:54.840 --> 1:51:57.200 When you asked where I learned it from. Randy Newburgh 1:51:57.200 --> 1:51:59.360 did that with that helicopter and like blew that big 1:51:59.400 --> 1:52:02.000 issue up. So that was one place that I had 1:52:02.040 --> 1:52:06.800 heard that I suppose. Yeah, my opinion, just being an 1:52:06.840 --> 1:52:10.520 out of state or and trying to read some information 1:52:10.600 --> 1:52:14.400 you know, on this is the powers that be, the 1:52:14.439 --> 1:52:17.519 people that don't want you to corn across, have done 1:52:17.560 --> 1:52:21.839 a great job of feeding propaganda bullshit to the public, 1:52:23.240 --> 1:52:26.479 you know. So and what got me pointed down that 1:52:26.680 --> 1:52:31.479 is I found the real estate ad for this ranch 1:52:31.560 --> 1:52:35.120 when it went when it went up for sale back 1:52:35.160 --> 1:52:37.840 in the earlier mid two thousand's, and I read it 1:52:38.600 --> 1:52:41.000 and it said that the public this is a real 1:52:41.080 --> 1:52:45.759 estate add says that the public ground around this ranch 1:52:46.320 --> 1:52:51.080 has been litigated through it. It may have, I can't remember. 1:52:51.080 --> 1:52:56.439 It said a district court or a a court system, 1:52:56.479 --> 1:52:59.479 and that it was deemed that the public couldn't go there. 1:53:01.000 --> 1:53:03.320 So I didn't believe it. That's in the listing, that 1:53:03.400 --> 1:53:06.000 was in the real estate listing. I think I even 1:53:06.040 --> 1:53:08.840 may have that printed off somewhere. Wow, that's great, man. 1:53:09.320 --> 1:53:11.360 And so I I tried to look up these court 1:53:11.400 --> 1:53:14.400 cases has and found out there was no such court 1:53:14.439 --> 1:53:19.880 cases to tell me that a realtorn. So, I mean, 1:53:19.960 --> 1:53:22.040 here's here's just just to show our side of the 1:53:22.080 --> 1:53:24.479 fence here in Montana. And I started collecting a file 1:53:24.600 --> 1:53:28.120 on these because I had It's some one of those 1:53:28.160 --> 1:53:30.000 things that when I'm having a bad day, I like 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:32.959 to make it even worse by fuming about this horseship 1:53:33.120 --> 1:53:36.479 as you called it, cute almost new two bedroom, one 1:53:36.479 --> 1:53:38.639 bath cabin on six plus acres with the two car 1:53:38.680 --> 1:53:42.679 garage being sold, fully furnished with all appliances, blah blah blah, 1:53:43.200 --> 1:53:45.639 ready to be a rental full time or part time residents. 1:53:45.720 --> 1:53:49.920 The subdivision boast private trout stock ponds and access to 1:53:50.000 --> 1:53:54.080 public land behind a locked gate. Uh So this is 1:53:54.280 --> 1:53:56.320 comes right back full circle to our h O A, 1:53:56.479 --> 1:53:59.080 our evil h O, A discussion that we started this 1:53:59.120 --> 1:54:01.719 thing with, And then it goes on to talk about 1:54:03.360 --> 1:54:06.960 just a short drive off the county maintained, which means 1:54:07.360 --> 1:54:11.120 everybody county taxes you're playing paying to maintain the road, uh, 1:54:11.120 --> 1:54:15.920 and school bus route taxes around the land only it's 1:54:16.040 --> 1:54:21.720 a commodity anyway, Sorry, just got a curiosity. Were you 1:54:21.720 --> 1:54:26.160 guys access in state or BLM? Both? All right? So 1:54:26.200 --> 1:54:28.880 there you are. He gives you your citation, and the 1:54:28.960 --> 1:54:32.720 citation carries with it. Can you do is it mandatory? Court? 1:54:32.800 --> 1:54:37.120 Could you just pay it with the whole thing? Right? 1:54:37.760 --> 1:54:41.480 Unless you set the date for November eight? That's right, 1:54:41.920 --> 1:54:44.360 good job, so you guys would already be out there hunting. 1:54:44.680 --> 1:54:52.480 That's perfect, a good deal. Uh, you get a lawyer. Well, 1:54:54.040 --> 1:54:58.320 so it's it's a seven fine if I remember right, 1:54:58.520 --> 1:55:01.040 we know we didn't do anything wrong. We're in a 1:55:01.040 --> 1:55:03.360 conundrumal what do we what do we do here? You know? 1:55:03.400 --> 1:55:04.920 How do you fight this? We all kind of wanted 1:55:04.920 --> 1:55:08.440 to fight it, um, but it's still it's seven fifty bucks. 1:55:08.800 --> 1:55:12.160 We could just be done done with it and you 1:55:12.240 --> 1:55:15.560 can go down and be like all right, right right, 1:55:17.280 --> 1:55:19.120 and you went and paid it, then, were you just 1:55:19.160 --> 1:55:21.360 gonna come back next year? And pay it again. Well, 1:55:21.400 --> 1:55:26.480 we hadn't thought that through all, you know, but me 1:55:27.560 --> 1:55:29.680 you know that, Hey we just double the cost of 1:55:29.680 --> 1:55:32.400 our ELK tag and pay the fine and go you 1:55:32.440 --> 1:55:36.920 know type thought. But that's as far as that went. Um. 1:55:37.000 --> 1:55:40.560 But we've met some local guys and they're like, hey, 1:55:40.600 --> 1:55:44.800 this is ridiculous. We know an organization I want to 1:55:44.840 --> 1:55:48.440 try and hook you guys. Put you guys together. And 1:55:48.520 --> 1:55:51.200 so this b h a group, this back Country Hunters 1:55:51.200 --> 1:55:58.800 and Anglers Wyoming, Wyoming, the Wyoming chapter, Um, I can't remember. 1:55:59.160 --> 1:56:02.080 We get connected it and there they want to know 1:56:02.120 --> 1:56:05.720 our story. And so we write them you know what 1:56:05.840 --> 1:56:10.480 happened a statement and send it to them, and they 1:56:10.520 --> 1:56:13.720 see it as an opportunity, as a legit. You know, 1:56:13.800 --> 1:56:15.600 you guys haven't done anything wrong. We want to back 1:56:15.680 --> 1:56:19.800 you on this. And so they set up the go 1:56:19.960 --> 1:56:25.000 fund me thing and get that ball rolling. Um. They 1:56:25.040 --> 1:56:28.919 find attorneys. You know, hey, I know this attorney. That attorney, 1:56:28.920 --> 1:56:31.520 you know, contact these guys and so we just got 1:56:31.520 --> 1:56:37.800 on the phone and got representation and it's snowballed. You know, 1:56:37.800 --> 1:56:39.760 it went to what it is now. They've done a 1:56:39.760 --> 1:56:45.080 phenomenal job of getting that money going. It raised what 1:56:45.240 --> 1:56:50.000 thirty some thousand dollars fast fast ultimately, you know, right 1:56:50.000 --> 1:56:52.720 around seventy and then it kind of flatlined a little bit. 1:56:52.840 --> 1:56:55.560 And then Steve hears about it, you know, and throws 1:56:55.640 --> 1:56:59.760 an Instagram thing out there. Me and Phils checking game 1:57:00.000 --> 1:57:02.400 ameras or something out in the woods one day and 1:57:02.480 --> 1:57:05.360 my brother in law John text and says, have you 1:57:05.360 --> 1:57:08.040 looked at the go fund me? I'm like no, and 1:57:08.080 --> 1:57:10.440 He's like, look at it. And it was just it 1:57:10.560 --> 1:57:13.960 was clicking after you threw the Instagram message out there, 1:57:14.360 --> 1:57:20.440 and it like doubles in money overnight and here we are. 1:57:20.680 --> 1:57:24.240 You know, the whole thing just grew. How long was that? So? 1:57:24.520 --> 1:57:26.000 How many of you guys had to show up for 1:57:26.040 --> 1:57:29.320 the trial? Four of us? How many days was the trial? 1:57:30.240 --> 1:57:35.240 Are you serious? Now? Who did three days for a misdemeanor? 1:57:35.320 --> 1:57:39.240 Did the actual landowners show up? No? Did the ranch manager? 1:57:39.360 --> 1:57:42.880 Was he was? Was he wilf? Was he wanting to 1:57:42.880 --> 1:57:46.040 be there? Was he called to the stand? I assume 1:57:46.120 --> 1:57:48.959 he was called. Actually he was called by the prosecutor. 1:57:49.000 --> 1:57:51.120 He was prosecutor's witness. And this is this is like 1:57:51.760 --> 1:57:53.560 there's a jury, this is a jury thing or not? 1:57:53.560 --> 1:57:56.040 Because it's a misdemean is not a jury it is 1:57:56.080 --> 1:57:59.080 a jury trial for him. I didn't know this because 1:57:59.080 --> 1:58:01.520 you had to plead you pled not guilty, which makes 1:58:01.520 --> 1:58:04.480 it a jury thing. Well you still didn't you have 1:58:04.520 --> 1:58:07.280 to request a jury trial. I believe the whole legal 1:58:07.320 --> 1:58:10.040 side of I didn't know this A misdemeanors only six jurors. 1:58:10.680 --> 1:58:13.480 I don't know that either. Yeah, so learned that through 1:58:13.520 --> 1:58:17.520 this less expensive Yeah, I guess um three days of 1:58:17.720 --> 1:58:22.160 three days of looking at different maps that were the 1:58:22.240 --> 1:58:29.040 same map just in a different color, you know, and legos. 1:58:29.040 --> 1:58:31.800 Did you guys have to outline like everywhere you went 1:58:32.040 --> 1:58:36.600 and things? No, Well we're defendants, you know, so they 1:58:36.640 --> 1:58:38.840 have to prove us guilty. Did you did you have 1:58:38.920 --> 1:58:41.760 the ladder? There? No, the ladder they come into play. 1:58:41.880 --> 1:58:44.080 There's pictures of the ladder. We weren't going to haul 1:58:44.120 --> 1:58:48.200 the ladder back. How are did the jury deliberate lunch? 1:58:49.360 --> 1:58:52.360 The lunch? Yeah, they ate lunch and was out and 1:58:55.760 --> 1:58:57.600 so they deliberated for an hour and a half which 1:58:57.640 --> 1:59:01.880 included lunch. Correct, and they come back and what not? Guilty? 1:59:03.200 --> 1:59:06.480 Is that easy? It's nervous. That's pretty nervous deal standing up, 1:59:07.200 --> 1:59:11.720 you know, whether jury is gonna guilty. Would you have 1:59:11.760 --> 1:59:14.720 had to pay court costs? I don't know, I wonder 1:59:14.720 --> 1:59:18.040 at the same time, you know, yeah, I don't. I 1:59:18.080 --> 1:59:23.720 don't know how that guy played out suits or nothing. Now, 1:59:23.760 --> 1:59:26.040 when we teased my my brother in law John, there's 1:59:26.040 --> 1:59:28.560 what we're hunting, buddies. He's the nervous one, you know, 1:59:28.720 --> 1:59:32.000 it's just scared to death somebody. What's gonna think he 1:59:32.080 --> 1:59:35.120 was a criminal, you know, because he touched air and 1:59:35.160 --> 1:59:37.560 so we teased him about getting his own jump suit, 1:59:38.480 --> 1:59:41.400 you know, don't pick up the soap type thing. Be 1:59:41.440 --> 1:59:48.040 a good Christmas present. And there's there's stands right now. Um, 1:59:48.280 --> 1:59:50.000 and I don't know to what degree. You can't really 1:59:50.000 --> 1:59:53.600 get into it. They're revisiting this through a civil suit. 1:59:55.520 --> 1:59:59.360 We have been sued civilly by the landowner. Do you 1:59:59.360 --> 2:00:01.520 know what can you disclose how much you're being sued for? 2:00:01.920 --> 2:00:04.560 There is no amount right because you have to prove 2:00:05.080 --> 2:00:09.200 the damage. I believe it reads. The amount is to 2:00:09.280 --> 2:00:13.000 be determined to buy the jury. Sure, so the jury 2:00:13.360 --> 2:00:17.960 would have the serious weight on their shoulders of determining 2:00:18.600 --> 2:00:25.840 how bruised the airspace is and what that bruising would 2:00:25.840 --> 2:00:30.600 amount to in a dollar figure of air that moves 2:00:30.840 --> 2:00:35.160 what that surgery is gonna when you go to settle 2:00:35.240 --> 2:00:38.440 up with the air, it's different air, and it's different air. Yeah, 2:00:38.440 --> 2:00:40.360 I read this thing one time that was saying that, um, 2:00:42.320 --> 2:00:45.560 you breathe. When you breathe, you're breathing in air molecules 2:00:45.600 --> 2:00:50.520 that had been breathed by Jesus. The air molecules are 2:00:50.560 --> 2:00:52.360 just like, how so who lord knows where those things 2:00:52.360 --> 2:00:55.800 are now? And what was the value he assigned him? 2:00:55.840 --> 2:01:00.360 You know, terous if you could ask him what do 2:01:00.360 --> 2:01:03.480 you think about this whole corner crossing thing that's going 2:01:03.840 --> 2:01:06.560 back to It's not much, I imagine, going back to 2:01:06.600 --> 2:01:08.400 what Steve said, My favorite part of this is that 2:01:08.440 --> 2:01:10.280 they can't say the quiet part out loud, which is 2:01:10.280 --> 2:01:15.080 that we just want to protect our suite that's ours. 2:01:14.760 --> 2:01:16.960 Are quotes, but so like when you're sitting in the 2:01:16.960 --> 2:01:20.480 courtroom and there this the phrase touching air. I know 2:01:20.560 --> 2:01:22.440 that's not how they framed it in the courtroom, but 2:01:22.480 --> 2:01:25.800 just like, did it sound did their defense sound preposterous? 2:01:25.840 --> 2:01:28.320 Like that's exactly what it boiled down to. So he 2:01:28.360 --> 2:01:31.000 never returned to the drudge Judge was like it was 2:01:31.040 --> 2:01:33.360 a man or a woman. A woman judge okay, never 2:01:33.480 --> 2:01:37.520 turned to her and said, uh, your honor, let me 2:01:37.560 --> 2:01:41.720 leavel with you. Um. I bought this because I thought 2:01:41.720 --> 2:01:43.920 I could hunt all this public ground and no one 2:01:43.920 --> 2:01:45.720 else could. And this is kind of sucking that whole 2:01:45.760 --> 2:01:54.520 deal up. Well, he was never there, hired hand in there. 2:01:54.840 --> 2:01:57.160 Did the lawyer, did the lawyer for the other side 2:01:57.160 --> 2:01:58.880 that they seem pretty committed? Or were they kind of 2:01:58.880 --> 2:02:03.040 I rolly the prosecutor, Yeah, they were very committed. He 2:02:03.040 --> 2:02:07.480 wanted to see you guys get in the fire under 2:02:07.560 --> 2:02:11.120 his ass I was a woman was a female actually, 2:02:11.920 --> 2:02:17.000 but I don't know. We never understood what why she 2:02:17.080 --> 2:02:20.000 had a horse in this race? Well, you know what 2:02:20.040 --> 2:02:22.000 was the judge's demeanor about the whole thing? Did she 2:02:22.000 --> 2:02:24.160 seemed to be there but time was being wasted? Or 2:02:24.640 --> 2:02:28.200 professional professional? You know. I was on a jury one 2:02:28.240 --> 2:02:32.720 time and we convicted a guy on It was a 2:02:32.760 --> 2:02:40.000 crack cocaine deal and we convicted and then the judge 2:02:40.360 --> 2:02:42.720 says that, Jerry, I want you to hang around for 2:02:42.720 --> 2:02:45.280 a minute, okay, And then all this stuff happens every 2:02:45.360 --> 2:02:48.280 leaves and the judge says, I'm gonna tell you some 2:02:48.440 --> 2:02:52.200 things that if there's any amount of guilt that you 2:02:52.280 --> 2:02:54.360 might feel, I want to put that guilt at rest 2:02:55.040 --> 2:02:59.600 and tell you about some non submissible evidence which he 2:02:59.680 --> 2:03:03.360 then aid out all this ship that they couldn't tell 2:03:03.360 --> 2:03:06.720 you about, and you're like, dude, why are they not 2:03:06.840 --> 2:03:12.360 have told us about that? Right? Like shooting people strangling people? 2:03:13.600 --> 2:03:15.560 It made you feel good about putting the difer the 2:03:15.720 --> 2:03:17.160 like they couldn't be because it was like he already 2:03:17.200 --> 2:03:18.880 had been in, you know what I mean, And then 2:03:18.880 --> 2:03:21.360 you get done today like damn, i's knowing that all along, Man, 2:03:21.400 --> 2:03:24.360 I would have been sitting there out what I would 2:03:24.360 --> 2:03:25.880 have done? What what they try to get you to 2:03:25.880 --> 2:03:28.320 not do, which is getting to make them pay all 2:03:28.320 --> 2:03:31.600 over again for he done earlier. Right, And we used 2:03:31.600 --> 2:03:34.000 to hope going through this whole process that people look 2:03:34.040 --> 2:03:36.160 at us and go, I think they're pretty decent guys 2:03:36.160 --> 2:03:39.280 that were just going hunting, you know, because we've read 2:03:39.320 --> 2:03:42.080 the stuff where people thought we were trying to get 2:03:42.120 --> 2:03:47.440 arrested on purpose, and that's insane. You know, when you 2:03:47.520 --> 2:03:50.320 guys were camped there over like both times, did you 2:03:50.360 --> 2:03:52.760 have any groups of hunters drive by and me like, m, 2:03:52.880 --> 2:03:56.000 what are they up to? There. We had a we 2:03:56.040 --> 2:03:58.520 had a couple of guys stop and say, hey, you know, 2:03:58.960 --> 2:04:02.800 trying just trying to feel hunting situation. And so I 2:04:02.880 --> 2:04:05.080 used to fish a lot competitively and stuff. So I've 2:04:05.120 --> 2:04:08.480 learned how to your competitive bass fisherman. Yeah, a little bit. 2:04:08.600 --> 2:04:11.600 So you learn how to have those conversations and and 2:04:11.640 --> 2:04:14.800 talking not without yeah, you know, so that's the same 2:04:14.840 --> 2:04:20.640 thing you're do in the hunting world. A few now, Steve, 2:04:20.720 --> 2:04:23.080 just out of curiosity, how did you jump to the 2:04:23.120 --> 2:04:26.600 conclusion that he was competitive bass fisherman because he's from Missouri. 2:04:26.720 --> 2:04:29.560 I didn't think he's a competitive trout fisherman. Well, no, 2:04:29.640 --> 2:04:32.840 they probably got some good trout fishing because like if 2:04:32.840 --> 2:04:36.040 you tallied up how many competitive fishermen are in the world, 2:04:36.160 --> 2:04:41.080 wouldn't be competitive bass fisherman. If I was talking to 2:04:41.120 --> 2:04:44.320 a Bahamian and he says a competitive fisherman, I would 2:04:44.320 --> 2:04:47.320 think he's in like the tuna caw cutters being from 2:04:47.320 --> 2:04:54.680 the Bahamas and all good conclusion. So the do we 2:04:54.720 --> 2:04:57.240 want to talk about the unlawful enclosures I Act, which 2:04:57.440 --> 2:05:00.840 was I want to save that, okay, because that that's 2:05:00.880 --> 2:05:04.280 a super interesting where this is headed. But that's one 2:05:04.280 --> 2:05:07.240 of the things without without bringing you into without Oh 2:05:07.320 --> 2:05:09.320 you did hang your hat on it. We hung our 2:05:09.400 --> 2:05:12.240 hat on that Unlawful Enclosures Act. Well, so that held, 2:05:12.280 --> 2:05:15.400 that came up in court, that came up in our 2:05:15.440 --> 2:05:19.120 personal conversations of building a ladder and them trying to 2:05:19.160 --> 2:05:22.480 block us all that. Well, cal I haven't been keeping 2:05:22.480 --> 2:05:25.480 you up speed because it's it's brand speakay new, but 2:05:25.560 --> 2:05:32.080 I'm working lead on a guest that could get into 2:05:32.080 --> 2:05:35.120 the subject matter expert perfect awesome. So I was trying 2:05:35.160 --> 2:05:37.120 to just to milk this out more, you know, the 2:05:38.120 --> 2:05:43.200 um but sorry that it is relevant for this because 2:05:43.200 --> 2:05:46.760 that was the argument that allowed it to be kind 2:05:46.760 --> 2:05:52.640 of plucked into federal court, the civil civil trial, because 2:05:52.720 --> 2:05:55.560 so it is, it is emerging already like that conversation. 2:05:55.560 --> 2:05:59.080 I thought that was like a conversation that will come eventually. No, 2:05:59.240 --> 2:06:03.320 there is an art human made on behalf of all 2:06:03.800 --> 2:06:10.080 four of our corner crossers that said, um, this civil 2:06:10.560 --> 2:06:15.840 suit has no basis because of and I'm very very 2:06:15.960 --> 2:06:23.040 much simplifying and uh anyway, well, the reason I'm going 2:06:23.080 --> 2:06:25.560 easy on this is I have been I'm not trying 2:06:25.600 --> 2:06:27.680 to be like cryptic. Well am I I don't know 2:06:27.800 --> 2:06:30.280 enough about it. I've had I've had off the com 2:06:30.760 --> 2:06:36.920 I've had off the record conversations with individuals who have 2:06:37.920 --> 2:06:44.520 they've off the record explained issues around the enclosures thing 2:06:46.160 --> 2:06:51.840 um that I would like to get into in the 2:06:51.880 --> 2:06:55.800 future because it's very interesting, and do it in a 2:06:55.840 --> 2:06:57.960 way that doesn't lead people in a lot of bad 2:06:58.000 --> 2:07:03.160 directions and assumptions. That and as and and and as 2:07:05.200 --> 2:07:11.400 in the studio, Dave Wilms, who doesn't have a no 2:07:11.560 --> 2:07:15.440 horse in the race right just as a bystander pointed 2:07:15.480 --> 2:07:20.280 out that the Enclosures Act has been used around like 2:07:20.760 --> 2:07:25.200 commercial travel. I think if I remember correct, it's on 2:07:25.240 --> 2:07:28.520 public records. It is on this episode. Uh, around this show. 2:07:29.360 --> 2:07:33.960 It's been used around shipping, it's been used around trucking commerce, 2:07:34.120 --> 2:07:39.520 but it hasn't been It's never been applied to pedestrian traffic. 2:07:40.800 --> 2:07:46.480 And in his pondering um, his pondering is was in 2:07:46.640 --> 2:07:49.600 on the on the episode previous episode, his pondering was 2:07:49.720 --> 2:07:53.800 what would happen were one to take pedestrian traffic and 2:07:53.800 --> 2:07:57.040 look at it through the lens of the Enclosures act um, 2:07:57.120 --> 2:07:59.760 And to date that hadn't been done. And he could 2:08:00.000 --> 2:08:02.360 and he I can't remember exactly, but he brought up 2:08:02.880 --> 2:08:06.000 ways in which it would be an interesting conversation and 2:08:06.040 --> 2:08:08.480 he could see this, and he could see that, but 2:08:08.480 --> 2:08:13.720 but it hasn't been applied to foot traffic. Interesting. Did 2:08:13.800 --> 2:08:17.920 I kind of roughly summarize that correctly? On on the 2:08:18.400 --> 2:08:23.120 civil suit? Yeah, it's part of the argument, I believe. Um, 2:08:23.280 --> 2:08:28.520 we haven't had great in depth conversations. We've had small conversations, 2:08:28.960 --> 2:08:31.920 you know, with attorneys, and we let those kind of 2:08:31.920 --> 2:08:34.240 the legal thing. I just sit here and keep thinking 2:08:34.320 --> 2:08:37.080 of as as an out of state hunter, and there's 2:08:37.560 --> 2:08:41.360 thousands of us that go west to go hunting. Why 2:08:41.400 --> 2:08:43.600 can't it not be simple as what you can and cannot? 2:08:43.600 --> 2:08:46.960 Do you know? Have you shouldn't have these conversations. Do 2:08:47.000 --> 2:08:49.640 you guys still have a little jingle in your legal 2:08:49.680 --> 2:08:53.560 defense fund? No? Really? Now it's short and I've got 2:08:53.840 --> 2:08:55.720 one more attorney bill I need to pay, So we're 2:08:55.720 --> 2:08:59.440 gonna have to have some conversations and get some more 2:08:59.440 --> 2:09:01.960 money rolling. I don't think we need much. What when 2:09:01.960 --> 2:09:04.440 will the civil thing become more clear? Like what you 2:09:04.480 --> 2:09:08.000 gotta do and all that? We don't know yet. Um, 2:09:08.040 --> 2:09:13.040 there's some judgments, some it depends on that federal court. Right, Well, 2:09:13.040 --> 2:09:16.360 the federal courts keeping the case, and so then there's 2:09:16.440 --> 2:09:19.880 a there's some emotions out there that they have to 2:09:19.960 --> 2:09:23.120 rule on first, maybe just a motion to dismiss. I 2:09:23.160 --> 2:09:26.480 don't remember exactly attorney jobs. Yeah. One of the problems, 2:09:26.520 --> 2:09:31.680 and I've learned this watching different Supreme Court cases, in 2:09:31.720 --> 2:09:34.360 federal cases. At oftentimes you want it to be like 2:09:34.440 --> 2:09:39.080 this um like final decision, right, But a lot of 2:09:39.120 --> 2:09:41.160 times it's like what happened? No, it's so like the 2:09:41.200 --> 2:09:46.320 findings are so obscure. Would be that our ruling is 2:09:46.360 --> 2:09:51.800 that the state should go in better define part of this, 2:09:53.040 --> 2:09:56.280 better define a term at play here. That was it 2:09:57.160 --> 2:10:00.520 that guys are gonna have to define air, right or 2:10:00.560 --> 2:10:03.040 like you know, you're like like, oh, also would it 2:10:03.160 --> 2:10:06.880 be like and just like it just winds up being 2:10:06.880 --> 2:10:09.720 like another sort of they punted, right. That was part 2:10:09.760 --> 2:10:15.080 of the argument in court was they argued over the 2:10:15.200 --> 2:10:19.840 definition of public land and private land. And so the 2:10:19.880 --> 2:10:23.360 prosecutor wanted to use the definition of private land, and 2:10:23.400 --> 2:10:26.760 so our attorneys argued the definition, Well, in that case, 2:10:26.960 --> 2:10:31.240 we must have the definition of public land. M And 2:10:31.560 --> 2:10:36.480 but if one would have been you know, he wasted 2:10:36.520 --> 2:10:38.600 a lot of time in court? Were you following everything 2:10:38.640 --> 2:10:41.720 in court? It was easy to follow if just someone 2:10:41.760 --> 2:10:43.320 who had been sitting in there, and we're sitting in 2:10:43.360 --> 2:10:46.760 a room. The courtroom was about twice this size. So yeah, 2:10:46.840 --> 2:10:48.600 there's no getting away from any of it. You're righting 2:10:48.640 --> 2:10:51.240 amongst the middle of I Did it ever get to 2:10:51.280 --> 2:10:54.760 where they were arguing over obscure stuff you hadn't thought 2:10:54.760 --> 2:10:57.200 about before? Were you? Were you tracking the arguments like 2:10:57.200 --> 2:10:59.840 you knew what was going on? Oh yeah, there's a 2:10:59.840 --> 2:11:02.280 lot of stuff you don't think about that they brought up. 2:11:02.280 --> 2:11:05.680 The surprise, you did come up lot of that before 2:11:05.720 --> 2:11:08.120 we actually went to court to all the different motions 2:11:08.160 --> 2:11:12.680 and arguments were right forever, I thought we already did this, 2:11:13.840 --> 2:11:17.160 you know, word it a different way. Right, So where 2:11:17.200 --> 2:11:19.400 things are at now? Did it screw up your hunting plans? 2:11:19.400 --> 2:11:21.400 For that's what I want to know. Where are you hunting? 2:11:21.440 --> 2:11:25.520 This ball place might be a little blown up now, Well, 2:11:25.640 --> 2:11:28.960 we're probably gonna draw tags this year for don't say 2:11:28.960 --> 2:11:31.680 too much, Phil, You don't have that kind of information. Remember, 2:11:31.680 --> 2:11:35.720 I'm an old We've got we've got other planes. We'll 2:11:35.800 --> 2:11:39.040 hut somewhere the landoord he probably just invited you out 2:11:39.080 --> 2:11:43.440 by this point, didn't he My phone hasn't ranked gys 2:11:43.560 --> 2:11:46.160 his guides out there, right he should? Well, maybe you 2:11:46.200 --> 2:11:47.920 read a letter that says come on out to our 2:11:47.960 --> 2:11:52.360 place in Missouri. You know, Yeah, he can't come there 2:11:52.360 --> 2:11:56.720 you go. I'll take him hunt there you go? Yeah, 2:11:57.960 --> 2:12:02.920 swap right. Um, we're gonna wrap it up first first, 2:12:02.920 --> 2:12:05.120 to raise some money for your legal fund. You need 2:12:05.160 --> 2:12:10.160 to develop like packable, lightweight, like carbon fiber version of 2:12:10.240 --> 2:12:13.000 that uh that ladder. Well, when you guys do find 2:12:13.000 --> 2:12:15.040 out what's up ahead, please let us know and we'll 2:12:15.040 --> 2:12:16.960 help get some more will help get a little more 2:12:17.080 --> 2:12:20.320 jingle rolling for you. Yeah, when we know that street 2:12:20.360 --> 2:12:23.160 turn for money, Johnnie John, He's like, we're they gonna 2:12:23.280 --> 2:12:28.600 some jingles. He's trying to think of a jam. Uh yeah, 2:12:28.720 --> 2:12:32.240 thank you. It's very very much for great. I want 2:12:32.240 --> 2:12:35.839 to take a picture of you guys. Here's here's some evil. 2:12:38.200 --> 2:12:40.000 Oh yeah, this brings me all way back to the 2:12:40.000 --> 2:12:42.080 outlaw of Josie wales Man. You don't mess with the 2:12:42.080 --> 2:12:47.600 Missourian's Missouri boat rad. Alright, guys, you guys sticking around 2:12:47.640 --> 2:12:51.600 for trivia. I guess if we're supposed to be better. 2:12:52.480 --> 2:12:55.120 That'd be great. I'll probably beat you guys. Asses. We're 2:12:55.160 --> 2:13:00.440 counting on it. Fills the trivia the tall right. Thanks, Thanks, 2:13:00.640 --> 2:13:02.640 I really appreciate Please come back. Don't do any other 2:13:02.680 --> 2:13:03.720 podcast right,