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Speaker 1: This is Me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by First like creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for

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Speaker 1: every hunt, first Light, Go Farther, Stay Longer. Holy sh

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Speaker 1: it is the Missouri Corner Crossers in the studio. Dude,

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Speaker 1: you're famous. Do people come out to the airport and

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Speaker 1: be like, it's the Missari corner Crosser. No, we're not.

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Speaker 1: We're unrecognizable. No one knows who you are. No, huh.

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Speaker 1: This is the first like media thing you've been able

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Speaker 1: to do pretty much. I've talked about some people on

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Speaker 1: the phone. Oh yeah, but you haven't been. You haven't

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Speaker 1: been on one of these here digital radio programs, the first.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome. Man. We also exclusive and we also have

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Speaker 1: Brandon Butler here, who's an Arson victim, also a Missourians.

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Speaker 1: People come up with you in the airport and be like,

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Speaker 1: are you an Arson victim? You would be surprised how

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Speaker 1: many people have heard this story. Well, it's a great story.

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Speaker 1: Is it? Hell? Out of me? Man? Oh god, I'm

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Speaker 1: depressed After I heard the little summary this morning from Brandon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't be it's not a good thing. I mean, no,

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Speaker 1: it's horrible. And then did you see how nice this

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Speaker 1: place became, the place that the poachers burned down? How

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Speaker 1: nice it became after we were there last You think

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Speaker 1: he would have waited to invite us over when it

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Speaker 1: was all done up in fancy. I wanted you guys

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Speaker 1: do experience and when it was raw, rawn cold. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a tragic story, but there's like a

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Speaker 1: little bit of justice in the end. There is a first,

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Speaker 1: a couple of things. Cal you were telling a story

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Speaker 1: that was so good we wanted you to start over again.

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Speaker 1: But it's an apropos for this podcast because it is

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Speaker 1: about government, hyperlocalized government, which is your homeowners association or

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Speaker 1: in my case, condo owners Association, of which I got

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Speaker 1: I got a hot tip for listeners. I bought a

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Speaker 1: house with the h o A, but I didn't really

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Speaker 1: know what it meant, Like I hadn't I hadn't bought

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Speaker 1: a bunch of houses. I bought one other house before,

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Speaker 1: and there wasn't anything like that. And then I heard

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Speaker 1: that there was one, and I didn't really think about it.

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Speaker 1: I know now that I would never ever, ever, ever,

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Speaker 1: ever again by a house with h o A. It's

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Speaker 1: like a group that makes it that you can't have

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Speaker 1: your boat, that you like, can't work on your boat

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Speaker 1: the way you'd like to work on it. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: And I think like the seasonal approach, like your friend

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Speaker 1: was saying it is A is a great one. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's like, if you want to work on some junkie

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Speaker 1: old vehicle, that's totally fine. But if it comes to

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Speaker 1: be that there's four ft of snow on there and

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Speaker 1: then there's junk everywhere and you're obviously not working on it,

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Speaker 1: then it becomes not fine. Yeah. I can see that.

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Speaker 1: That seems reasonable to me. Yeah. It's like if you

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Speaker 1: have your uh, you know, let's just say, let's say

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Speaker 1: you're bringing your camper somewhere and the world's washed out

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Speaker 1: like that, they got to fix the road. I don't know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want to do Yeah. I can see

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Speaker 1: where where you're going with that. But here, here's the deal.

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Speaker 1: What if you're you didn't have let's say you didn't

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Speaker 1: have an h A and your neighbor and you could

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Speaker 1: do it where you live and your neighbors like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to open up a burger joint

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Speaker 1: at running out of my garage so now, and that

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be an h A issue, that'd be a zoning issue. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, let's just say you were outside of the

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Speaker 1: you're on the other side of that line that's right

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Speaker 1: behind your house, and you're outside of uh you know,

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Speaker 1: city limits or whatever, and you were in a place

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Speaker 1: where you could do it. I understand you don't. You're

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Speaker 1: saying that I live in a place where it's zoned

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Speaker 1: for someone from my neighbor to open a burger restaurant.

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Speaker 1: I'm saying you. I'm saying you, oh, I'm making up

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Speaker 1: a place where you could do that. There's no rules.

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Speaker 1: Well I'll give I'll give you a good example and

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Speaker 1: no zoning. Okay. For for for instance, my h says, because

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Speaker 1: we are zone, obviously, you can't have a business. You

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Speaker 1: can't have a burger, you get zero business. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's a burger joint, but you can have

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Speaker 1: one's going to your house for burgers. You can have

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Speaker 1: have an auto repair shopdo okay, a welding shop. I'd

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Speaker 1: like that very much. I wish all my neighbors had

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Speaker 1: welding shops. Well, I actually I wish it was welding, welding, fabrication, electric, lumberyard, plumbing,

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Speaker 1: tackle stand. All of a sudden, your neighborhood wasn't nice

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Speaker 1: and quiet, and there was like five people coming to

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Speaker 1: visit whatever business it was. You'd be like, Oh cool,

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Speaker 1: but what's what's having a camper or a boat in

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Speaker 1: your drive. He's trying to go extreme. He's trying to.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to because there's yeah, there's the extreme version

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Speaker 1: of h o A and extreme versions of any neighbors

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Speaker 1: that h o A s are wish. I wish that

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Speaker 1: my I wish my house was the only one that

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Speaker 1: looked nice because people be like, jeez, that's a nice

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Speaker 1: looking house. But your people got jumped out cards. And

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Speaker 1: then when I needed a part right now, I need

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Speaker 1: I need a piece of aluminum. I don't give a

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Speaker 1: ship two inch four inch wide. I needed a piece

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Speaker 1: of aluminum bar stock in Alaska, at our fishack in Alaska.

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Speaker 1: There's sure should know h o A. I could easily

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Speaker 1: find that by going to my neighbors and looking around

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Speaker 1: where they keep all their garbage. Here it doesn't work

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Speaker 1: that way. But if all my neighbors had junk collections,

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Speaker 1: I'd go like, hey, do you mind if I dig

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Speaker 1: around like I'm trying to find out you know, you

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Speaker 1: big whatever. They'd be like, hey, bad, I got all

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Speaker 1: my junk here, don't cut yourself, tell you man. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know the Latin calvete m tour buyer be aware,

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Speaker 1: covers it all m It's like, oh yeah, that neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: So to be realistic, what I would say is this.

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Speaker 1: I would say that if like, well I start on

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Speaker 1: my point, I won't do it again. If I did,

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Speaker 1: I would be like I would have an h like

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Speaker 1: I would make an h oo that said the h

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Speaker 1: o A rules are it's cool to have and that

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Speaker 1: list things I like? Right, campers, boat trailers like stuff

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Speaker 1: I like? And that was okay, Can someone live in

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Speaker 1: your camper full time in your yard? Depends what the

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Speaker 1: groove is and if I like it. So I'm swinging

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Speaker 1: in to the condo the other day. And it's work

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Speaker 1: live right. So they are businesses on the bottom level,

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Speaker 1: residences on top and what do they call them? Living works? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Work live, live work yeah. Um, but they're duels owned

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Speaker 1: and and that doesn't make too much of a difference here.

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Speaker 1: But uh, buddy across the street works on wind generation,

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Speaker 1: power generation stuff, and and he's a major tinker. He's

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Speaker 1: got his garage open all the time. He's got this

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Speaker 1: little bulldog named Blue Cheese. And uh, what kind of

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Speaker 1: tinker is he gonna do? Woodworking? Lots of woodworking, lots

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Speaker 1: of moto stuff, lots of bicycle stuff, um, automotive whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like he is into it. And that's what's cool about

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Speaker 1: the neighborhood. Or it's slowly changing. But um weekends especially

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Speaker 1: like everybody's got their garage open, and and nobody really

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Speaker 1: wants to go bullshit with each other because they're too

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Speaker 1: busy tinkering. But you can always walk over and borrow

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Speaker 1: a tool that you need in between the open garages.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a great neighborhood. It's yeah, it's ideal. Well,

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Speaker 1: we've been getting this infestation of rock doves city pigeons

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Speaker 1: and they've shown up for the first time. They're crapping

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Speaker 1: on everything. I'm have been and I don't own an

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Speaker 1: air rifle anymore, but I was trying to solicit some

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Speaker 1: work from somebody who does. My boy will do it.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is we just had to order him

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Speaker 1: a new magazine for his gammo this morning because according

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Speaker 1: to him, it broke. Then he lost it, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't matter because it was broke. We're going to pay

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Speaker 1: to fix something. This air rifle shooting. Is that okay?

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Speaker 1: With the h O A. It is? It is because

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Speaker 1: I'm the de facto president. I was. I was stupid

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Speaker 1: enough to join the board. You put a clause in there,

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Speaker 1: and then everybody else moved away. So so there was

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Speaker 1: one board member right now, right now, which is not

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Speaker 1: up to the by laws. But here we are, nobody

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Speaker 1: wants to do it. I get it. Um, So I

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Speaker 1: come polling in yesterday. Blue Cheese, who's always a potential

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Speaker 1: speed bump, come strutting out there, and uh, he smashes

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Speaker 1: this squab, this flightless pigeon on the on the side

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Speaker 1: of the sidewalk, like he catches it. He catches it,

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Speaker 1: which is not super likely, right, And so I'm looking

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Speaker 1: around and determined that the only place that the nest

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Speaker 1: could be is inside the barbecue of this neighbor who

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Speaker 1: I got, you know, flightless because of its youth, of

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Speaker 1: its youth understanding. Yeah, So it's a it's a you know,

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Speaker 1: city pigeons. So just get out of the nest and

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Speaker 1: the dog grabs it. And then you know, my dog

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Speaker 1: takes great interest in that, and she gets it from

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Speaker 1: the bulldogs who's super piste and there's just a slight

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Speaker 1: height difference there, and so he's jumping up at her.

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Speaker 1: They're making all sorts of noise. She's trotting around super

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Speaker 1: proud with this burdener mouth, looking around. Then the other

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Speaker 1: neighbors show up, who are from away, will just say,

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Speaker 1: from Steve's old neighborhood in Seattle, and they're watching all this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm I'm more concerned with the origination where this

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Speaker 1: bird came from. You got a hot clue now, so

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Speaker 1: now I can eliminate the nest. The situation that I

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Speaker 1: am with the bird that's in hand literally has already

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Speaker 1: been caught, and uh, my neighbor from behind me goes,

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Speaker 1: can you just end it quick? And so kind of

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Speaker 1: without thinking, you know, I like call snort to hell.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for the nest. She hands the bird off.

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Speaker 1: I grab it by the legs. I give it a

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Speaker 1: quick like like you know, like towel whack, and then

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Speaker 1: chucking in the dumpster, and you know, I'm still like

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Speaker 1: focused upwards and I turned around and there's just kind

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Speaker 1: of a scene, a quiet scene of like it was

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Speaker 1: too smooth, it was too effortless, right, Yeah, they wanted

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Speaker 1: more like contemplation and you to come over and be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's wrap our heads around that. Right. Yeah, that was intense,

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Speaker 1: but uh, it's not now how it works on the

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Speaker 1: main streets of bos Angeles, you know, Uh, Okay, we

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Speaker 1: got a lot to cover, so we're gonna go and

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Speaker 1: talk about why aren't two things here we're making We're

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Speaker 1: talking about Brax and Hicks. You guys know what you

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Speaker 1: guys got kids? Oh yeah, two girls, two girls, old

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Speaker 1: kids and now babies. Yeah, do you guys remember what

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Speaker 1: a Brax and Hicks contraction was. We're talking about how

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Speaker 1: there's only two women that listen and and um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why we're talking about that, because we do

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Speaker 1: wonder why we're covering Bracks and Hits contractions. But but

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Speaker 1: we were wrong because three women wrote in we're off

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Speaker 1: by a lot, by a wide margin. Uh. They had

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Speaker 1: things to say about Bras and Hicks, So we're off.

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Speaker 1: Someone wrote in, if only two women listen to the show,

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Speaker 1: I'm half of them. She went on to say, as

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Speaker 1: for Braxton Hicks contractions, they can happen for half of her,

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Speaker 1: none of a pregnancy, and very in intensity for each person.

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Speaker 1: And there's no way in hell a woman who's had

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Speaker 1: a labor contraction could confuse the two. Another person mentioned

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Speaker 1: that her husband had a cousin whose name was Braxton Hicks,

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Speaker 1: spelled differently Braxton Hicks. It's a great name. Uh, Karin,

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Speaker 1: got your talk about your blue belt crin jiu jitsu.

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Speaker 1: Thanks are putting that in the talking points, Yann not

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Speaker 1: necessary to talk about, but yeah, I gotta. I've been

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Speaker 1: doing jiu jitsu for a little bit over a year

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Speaker 1: with Crown Gracie and very unexpectedly gott a promotion the

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Speaker 1: other day. So so if I help me understand, let's

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Speaker 1: say I through a wild haymaker at you. Do you

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Speaker 1: feel that you would then beat my ass? Is it

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Speaker 1: useful like that? It's so jiu jitsu is a drunken

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Speaker 1: wild haymaker. Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of things, but part of it at his core is

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Speaker 1: self defense. So it doesn't matter if you're bigger than

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Speaker 1: me or stronger than me. If I've got technique down,

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Speaker 1: if I can feel myself in my body and feel

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Speaker 1: like what and see like what you're doing or about

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Speaker 1: to do, then I might just be able to get

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Speaker 1: you in a little pretzel. Okay, So let's say she's

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Speaker 1: going to subdue you. Yes, exactly. I can't do anything.

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Speaker 1: That's so so never mind the wild haymaker because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't work. But like let's say, Um Yanni, I was like, okay, now, Karna,

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Speaker 1: Yanni will fight right right, and there's no haymakers, just

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Speaker 1: like you guys square off to fight. Do you feel

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Speaker 1: that you would beat Yanni's ass? Because you know this

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Speaker 1: martial art? I would say I have that I did

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Speaker 1: about six weeks when I was um, and that stuff

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Speaker 1: sticks with you like a bicycle. So so the first

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Speaker 1: thing I would try to do is get you to

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Speaker 1: the ground, just like I'm asking it. It's a yes

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Speaker 1: or no question, would you be able to beat you?

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Speaker 1: And he's asking a fight? Really that it works that good?

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Speaker 1: It's on after this podcast. It's all technique. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're a smaller person going against a much bigger,

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Speaker 1: stronger person who doesn't have the level of technique that

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Speaker 1: you do. You can, you can subdue them, but are

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Speaker 1: you relying on them also fighting by the same set

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Speaker 1: of rules like do you know what? Like okay, so

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Speaker 1: you're not you're not. It doesn't have to be that

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Speaker 1: that there you're playing checkers, they're playing chess like there

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Oh so many factors come into play, but

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Speaker 1: there might be things that they don't. You know, someone

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Speaker 1: might like step to me and be really cocky about

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Speaker 1: their ability and not defend themselves in places where I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I might be able to do something. I

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Speaker 1: watched this play out in high school, like world enough now,

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Speaker 1: Like we were there when UFC kind of started, and

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Speaker 1: we had this boddy named Jay who thought he was

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Speaker 1: like studying it and he was a martial artist. We

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Speaker 1: had this truck driver named Valente who was like six

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Speaker 1: four two twenty in high school. And Jay's like, sure

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Speaker 1: he can take him because he knows all these skills.

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Speaker 1: So we move all the furniture out of Valente's like

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Speaker 1: parents upstairs, and there's tile and Jay's like in his

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Speaker 1: gear or whatever, and Valente's and something like ripped up

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Speaker 1: a C d C T shirt and Jay comes running

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Speaker 1: at him. Valente lifts him up as high as he

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Speaker 1: can and slams him on the tile and the fight

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Speaker 1: was over. That was the big guy just overpowered him.

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Speaker 1: A friend x ex girlfriend from a long time ago

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Speaker 1: studied judo from from like a Judo family and very

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Speaker 1: very tiny lady and my friend who was Division one

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Speaker 1: linebacker whose claim to fame was he once tackled Barry

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Speaker 1: Sanders picked a fight who everybody knows was a very

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Speaker 1: difficult target to tackle, very difficult um. But he picked

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Speaker 1: a fight with with her and it was over shockingly fast.

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Speaker 1: She will up and all she said was, they always

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Speaker 1: tried to pick you up. I thought you said yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: there's no I don't think there's a lot of hyahs

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Speaker 1: and Judo Judo is like, yeah, is getting you to

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Speaker 1: the ground is very explosive, So that's not surprised. Her

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Speaker 1: takeaway is big guys always try to pick up smaller

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Speaker 1: people and throw them down. I don't know, but she's

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Speaker 1: just like, yeah, they always try to pick you up.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't really see it because they're kind of wrapped up,

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Speaker 1: but he was and was like okay, okay, okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: So it turned turned the conversation around real fast. Okay,

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Speaker 1: last thing Yanni wanted to plug. I haven't downloaded yet,

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Speaker 1: but Bogaine loves it. Oh, it's so cool. Everything in

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Speaker 1: this room should get it. It's free. It's called the

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Speaker 1: Merlin Bird. I D by the corn L Lab. Everything

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Speaker 1: about everything good about birds is from the Cornell or

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Speaker 1: not absolutely. Yeah. Oh I just opened it and says

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Speaker 1: your five day grace period is over. Worth paying whatever

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Speaker 1: they're going to charge. What do they want to listen?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not gonna go in and figure

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Speaker 1: that out right now. What you're gonna pay it? Yeah,

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00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: because all my recent bear hunt you can. They have

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Speaker 1: a sound I D so you can just hit the

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Speaker 1: microphone button while you're sitting there at first light and

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Speaker 1: all the birds are going off, and it just starts running.

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Speaker 1: It just starts showing up every bird. There's a whole

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Speaker 1: it'll be like the whole list will be like ten birds,

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Speaker 1: and then as each one's going off, it'll highlight it.

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Speaker 1: So you're just sitting there watching it, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, the robin highlights it goes away, Then the

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00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 1: chipping sparrow highlights it goes away. Then the Mountain chickadee highlights,

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Speaker 1: then the Redbreast of Nuthatch highlights. Do you gotta have

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Speaker 1: service for it to work? You pre download like sections

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Speaker 1: of the United States and see. Man, you know that's

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00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: good to know, because what's daunting is we're gonna, um,

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Speaker 1: we keep a good list at our house, but we're

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Speaker 1: gonna start doing a list at our little property. And

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Speaker 1: it's just daunting because it's like starting from scratch. And

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Speaker 1: this is so easy because it's not all these not

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Speaker 1: all the normal ones that you're accustomed to because your

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Speaker 1: higher elevation to kind of habitat time. So I was

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Speaker 1: actually doing in reverse now. I was sitting there listening

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Speaker 1: to him, going oh, that's that bird, and I could

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Speaker 1: see the picture on my app and then I could

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Speaker 1: glass around and look at the little birds flooding around

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Speaker 1: and find them and go, oh, there is the redbreast

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Speaker 1: and Nuthatch's great. Okay, do your last little promotion. I

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Speaker 1: want everybody go and watch the brand new six episodes

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Speaker 1: of my show called On the Hunt on me meters

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel. Brodie, have you washed them all? How many

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Speaker 1: have you watched? Still catching up? Who's watching? Who's watched?

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Speaker 1: One in this room. I watched one nice. Would you

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Speaker 1: think Turkey's with room app it's fun like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'd say watch more based off of that. Okay, good,

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Speaker 1: thank you, cal Sorry, we gotta tech. We got an

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Speaker 1: email today said that that was the finest thing that

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Speaker 1: this company has ever produced. Did you see that? You know,

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Speaker 1: I did see that. It's very nice to that person

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Speaker 1: to say that. Is that an email peer reviewed? It

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Speaker 1: was my mother. She's been a great supporter over the years. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into Law and Justice. Que the song Philip,

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Speaker 1: now here's the thing to make this legal. Everybody needs

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Speaker 1: to comment on it because it's criticism hit it gentire

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00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: is a little twangy. My opinion, it's a great too.

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Speaker 1: That's my comment. I've never watched this show. No, it's

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Speaker 1: not a show. Oh there he's singing, singing. He just said,

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Speaker 1: law me all right, turn off. It's the Law and

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Speaker 1: Justice episode. Who's sang that? It's this dude from He's

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Speaker 1: kind of like a He was just kind of fixture

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Speaker 1: around Austin, Texas. Had a lot of mental problems, had

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Speaker 1: a lot of substance abuse problems. But now and then

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00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 1: pull it together and do these albums and um. He

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Speaker 1: then later did an album with an outfit called Okerville

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Speaker 1: rigor Ockerville River out of Austin and they kind of

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Speaker 1: brought a lot of his music to life. But he's

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Speaker 1: had a lot of uh, he was troubled individual. Is

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Speaker 1: that how you say it? Okkerville Okerville? Yeah, it's from

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Speaker 1: a Russian novel. No ways, God, that didn't stick as

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Speaker 1: a kid. All right, Brandon, Ready, Okay, we got two

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Speaker 1: major things to cover because we're gonna we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: a big follow up. Well, these are both stories, the

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Speaker 1: Missouri Corner Crossers I guess felt called Wyoming corner Crossers

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Speaker 1: whatever the hell the Wyoming corner Crosses from Missouri we've

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Speaker 1: reported on quite heavily, and then we reported on Brandon

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Speaker 1: Butler's justice saga quite heavily. And now we're gonna do

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Speaker 1: a recap on both with everybody in the room. So

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Speaker 1: if you can give us a, um, where we last

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Speaker 1: left off. I think where we last left off was

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Speaker 1: the suspect was in custody. No, no, no, no recap

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Speaker 1: the story or recap the whole thing. Are you sitting

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Speaker 1: there you hear a bunch of gunshots? Yeah? So I

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Speaker 1: gotta go back a little bit further than that and

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Speaker 1: talk about how I even got there. Um, there was

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Speaker 1: a camp called Camp Zoe that fluent girls from St.

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Speaker 1: Louis would go to in the Ozarks. Fluent or affluent, affluent,

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Speaker 1: and uh. The governor at the time of Missouri was

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Speaker 1: Jay Nixon, and his mom had been a camper at

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Speaker 1: this camp and then she went on to become a

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Speaker 1: counselor at this camp. This is in Shannon County, Missouri,

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Speaker 1: just north of Eminence, maybe fifteen twenty miles at most.

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Speaker 1: And the governor always had, you know, he had affinity

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Speaker 1: for this property. It was beautiful sinking creek. You guys

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Speaker 1: saw sinking creek flows through it. And eventually it got

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Speaker 1: bought and turned into a music venue and it was

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Speaker 1: called schwag Stock. That was a music It became, you

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Speaker 1: know a place where hippies would gather and swim naked

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Speaker 1: in the creed. Was it bigger or this is just

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Speaker 1: on year. This is just down the road where the

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00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: state park is where we went and the general the

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Speaker 1: general area and hippies in the creek. Then it became

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Speaker 1: worse than that, you know, the weed turned into heavier

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Speaker 1: drugs and ultimately the d e A raided this property.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and ten, it went up for auction

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Speaker 1: and the state bought it. The governor had, you're into

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Speaker 1: the distinction now between hippies crazy as hippies. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't have hippies and meth heads in the same category.

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Speaker 1: Like it went was that kind of transition, not even crazy.

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Speaker 1: It went from like you know, smoking weed in the

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Speaker 1: creek to too hard drugs. And at that point the

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Speaker 1: d A guess had enough and they came in raided

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Speaker 1: the property, confiscated it for like back taxes and others,

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Speaker 1: and then the state bought it in an open auction.

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Speaker 1: They ended up paying six dollars it's a little over

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Speaker 1: three d That's how the state park came into be there,

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Speaker 1: and it was the governor's vision. He had like a

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Speaker 1: year left and he just went all out on building

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Speaker 1: this property, and it's the premier state park in the

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00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: state of Missouri. Now. They put like sixty one million

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00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: dollars into it. Have you guys been to Echo Bluff.

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Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask you if that's what it

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Speaker 1: was it is, if you was trying to look up

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00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: I've been buy it It's pretty, isn't it. It's a

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Speaker 1: beautiful state park and absolute point of pride for the

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Speaker 1: state of Missouri. But because of this kind of contingent

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Speaker 1: of folks, a very small contingent, I have to be

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Speaker 1: careful because I guess last time I got in trouble

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Speaker 1: because I got generalized and saying like it's the whole area.

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Speaker 1: A guy getting a lot of trouble. He's from England. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: he got a lot of heat. I'm talking about very

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Speaker 1: a very small group of people that lived like back

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Speaker 1: in the woods, like in these hollers, that like this

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00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: outlaw way of life that they've been conducting for generations,

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00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: where like rules and law simply don't matter. But the

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00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: majority of people down there are incredible people, Like they're

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Speaker 1: just salt of the earth, hard working, love the outdoors.

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Speaker 1: But it's like they got a hide from just like

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00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: bully mentality. They can't speak up for good, they can't

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00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: speak up for like justice, because if they do, then

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00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: they're gonna face like ramifications. But back to the park.

422
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: So the governor puts all this money into the park.

423
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: At the time, I'm running the Conservation Federation, which is

424
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: like the state's largest conservation nonprofit. It's affiliated to the

425
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: National Wildlife Federation, and the governor asks me to kind

426
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: of help lead pr issues, like make people see the

427
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: benefits of this part coming into this part of the state.

428
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: So I'm doing that, and while I'm there, like exploring

429
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: this property, I finally decide, this is it. Like I've

430
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,719
Speaker 1: been waiting my whole life to have a place like

431
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: my own property, in my own camp. You know, my

432
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: first camp was like a g I Joe sleeping bag

433
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 1: under the stairs of my parents basement. And then in

434
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: college you became a camper, and like the dream of

435
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: just having a cabin like that was always the dream.

436
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: So now I'm like, this is it. I'm gonna buy

437
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: a place down here. Through a series of like fortunate events,

438
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: I find this forty acres real close to the park

439
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: on the creek, surrounded by public land, and I get

440
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: it bought, and now I show up in my conservation

441
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 1: truck like wrapped with like conservation on it. I mean, man,

442
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: I grew up not too far down the road from

443
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: you in northwest Indiana, did a lot of working like

444
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: Gary and and some really rough places as a kid.

445
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: And now I think about it in a sense, like

446
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: like when I reflect on the decision I made, it

447
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: would be like going into Gary and building a mansion

448
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: and expecting like you're just gonna be friends with all

449
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: your neighbors. You know, like everything's gonna be fine, you know,

450
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: even if you're not trying to change them. You just

451
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: being there somehow like shifts this mentality you conservation, following

452
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: the rules, and uh so I go about it, and

453
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, but I tried to, you know, immediately do well.

454
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: I went to Sam's Club and bought those tins of

455
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: popcorn and I took him to everybody's house on the

456
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: road for Christmas into three you got like cheese and

457
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: caramel and all that. So like I'm I took those

458
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: out and now I'm thinking, you know, now these people

459
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: are like, who is this dude, Like that's coming to

460
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: our house with a tin of popcorn to like introduce himself.

461
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: But ultimately that was like my introduction to these folks

462
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: and my like please don't burn my house down, like offering,

463
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,959
Speaker 1: and things were good for a while. I hired all

464
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: local contractors. Uh you know, it was just a real

465
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: rough piece of ground. I brought in a guy with

466
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: a bulldozer, he cleaned up a couple of acres. There

467
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: was an old cabin there. I took it apart, piece

468
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: by piece so I could repurpose the materials, Like the

469
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: old roof became the ceiling in the new cabin, the

470
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: rafters became bookshelves, just a lot of that. I took

471
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: this old potato sack that was insulation in the old cabin,

472
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: and I framed it because it was, you know, a

473
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: hundred years old installation. It was cool, so ship like

474
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: that was just what made that place spout show. And

475
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: then we started hunting there, and I guess maybe they

476
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: had a few a few people kind of had felt

477
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: that I was encroaching on their public land. You know

478
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: how that goes, Right, they've been hunting there for a while,

479
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: somebody else comes in, start hunting the same public land,

480
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: and I'm bringing guys down because you got a parcel,

481
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: but your parcels by public land. And my parcel was

482
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: surrounded on three sides by a parcel of public land

483
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: that's like sixty contiguous acres. And there was probably about

484
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: three or four thousand acres behind my house before you

485
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: got to a road. Uh that I really started getting

486
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: to know. It's where yeh, it's killed his turkey. Well

487
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: you too, you killed yours there too, well, And I

488
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: found a crippled up turkey that I killed. I actually

489
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: jumped it. That was a good story. That's one of

490
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: my proudest most So it's going well, it's going well

491
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: for a while. That park comes in. The locals start

492
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: working at the park. You know, there's jobs now, like

493
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: a hundred people are employed there, and and like the

494
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: local sentiment starts getting better for the park, but it

495
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: is bringing a lot of people in there. And and

496
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: then there's that group that has like the frustration for

497
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: the fact that this area is becoming more exposed, like

498
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: more people know about it, more people are visiting, and

499
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: I assume there's just like a deep seated resentment towards that.

500
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: And if you go back a step further, there's just

501
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: a really deep seated resentment towards government by a lot

502
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: of these people in general. Because the national park there,

503
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: which is called the Ozark National Scenic Riverways, it's a

504
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five miles of river corridor consisting of

505
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: the Current River and the Jack's Fork River, with acres

506
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: of public land along those rivers. Now a lot of

507
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: it was taken by imminent domain back in like the

508
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties to become that park. Everybody was paid,

509
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: everybody was you know, nobody's land was stolen. But that's

510
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: the sentiment by a few people is you know, the

511
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: land was stolen from us. Well no, you know, a

512
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: check has past. But there's like but I mean, yeah,

513
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: there's people that held out and and that that's a

514
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: common story. And like it's like there's resentment for sure,

515
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: and you have your farm being taken by eminent domain

516
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: for a park. You cannot expect to be like, oh,

517
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: you have no right to be mad. We gave you

518
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: the money. And it's different. Way I think about it

519
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: is like if my grandpa said something, it was gospel,

520
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: you know. And now you've got this generational anger that

521
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: comes from like the people who actually lost the property

522
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: to the two or three generations after that are now

523
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: like carrying that flame that are like, you know, I'm

524
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: gonna find some way to right this wrong because it's

525
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: like our families heritage. So there there is like this

526
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: real deep resentment towards government in that area. And and

527
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: now they come in and put this park in and

528
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: start bringing people and then people like me show up

529
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: by property and you know, want rules to be followed,

530
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: like don't shoot here at night with spotlights. Uh, don't

531
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: run your dogs illegally on my property. Things that are

532
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: just pretty basic. But we're getting along fine until maybe

533
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: three years in and my friend Eric is hunting a

534
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: tree stand along the creek and there's this little seven

535
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: point book out in the field in front of them,

536
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: and a truck pulls up at the opening to this field,

537
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: jumps out, two guys jump out, and they start firing

538
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: on this book. They wound it not guns season, it

539
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: was guns season. They do most of their potent. I'll

540
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: give them that. Most of the poaching actually does take

541
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: place during the rifle season. So they wound this book.

542
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: It runs up onto my property, beds up, they go

543
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: switch vehicles. I guess they got like a shooting vehicle

544
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: and a hauling vehicle, so they had to go get

545
00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: the pick up. Yeah, multifaceted poaching operation. So then they

546
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: come barreling across the field in the hall and rig

547
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: jumped the buck up and it runs right at my

548
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: buddy who's sitting on a power line cut at the creek,

549
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: full blaze orange and they just start unloading on it again.

550
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: Now bullets are like whizzing past my buddy's tree stand

551
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: and he's screaming at him, and they're now they're like,

552
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: oh ship, you know, they're scared that they they're shooting

553
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: at this guy. So they come up and then they

554
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: explained to him that it's his fault because he didn't

555
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: put a blaze orange marker at the opening of the

556
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: field so they would know not to shoot from the road.

557
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: So at that point, like, I don't call the law.

558
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: I'm still like the executive director of this organization constantly

559
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: promoting like anti poaching campaigns and doing the right thing,

560
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: and in that instance, I didn't, you know, and that

561
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: never sat right with me. I wanted to keep the peace,

562
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: so I went and talked to the people and tried

563
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: to like smooth it over like good, like neighborly. And

564
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: it did get smoothed over with some of the like

565
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: powers that be, some of the more like patriarchal type

566
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: in that area. But the guy who did it, he

567
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: just went around telling stories and making up lies and

568
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: and that started breeding this kind of like anti sentiment

569
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: towards me in a small like contingent crowd. But we

570
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: lived with it for years until we got to gun

571
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: season of two thousand and it was Sunday night and

572
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: me and my buddy Nathan, everybody calls him Shags, My

573
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: cousin Derek, and my buddy paddled down like we're sitting

574
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: around this campfire and a truck comes across. Remember how

575
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: we couldn't come across the creek, so to get into

576
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: this property you had to like drive on a an

577
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: underwater bridge, like we call him Arkansas bridges because they

578
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: actually build them underwater. And uh, you come across this

579
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: Arkansas bridge and when it's flooded, you've got to come

580
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: through the forest. And I took you guys in through

581
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: the forest. The bridge is all flooded out, but somebody

582
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: comes across any ways, we couldn't believe that they were

583
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: crossing it. This truck pulls in and this is like

584
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 1: eight thirty, so it's three hours, three hours after dark.

585
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: It pulls into this field, like right at the base

586
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: of my property where the old man who had owned

587
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: it died like two weeks before. And I've been over

588
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: there that day and the power line people were there,

589
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: and I thought that the power line people had recognized

590
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: that this was now a vacant property and they were

591
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: coming in there to poach at night. So when his

592
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: truck pulls into the field, they throw on like an

593
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: led light bar and we can see the muzzle flashes

594
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: before we can hear the shots. And at that point

595
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: I just jump in my side by side and take

596
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: off to try to confront them. My buddies come running

597
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: after me. The truck evades and gets out of the holler,

598
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: and that I was like, that's it. I'm this is

599
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: this is the line in the sand. So I call

600
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: the game wardens who I know, we call him conservation

601
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: officers and and m hurry and they come out. But

602
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: that morning we went looking for the truck and we

603
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: found it before the agent got there, and I knew

604
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: who had belonged to at that point, and it it

605
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: was like, this is gonna be serious if I crossed

606
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: this line. So they actually come out and they they

607
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: reiterate that to me. They're like, you know who this

608
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: belongs to, and I'm like yeah, and they're like, what

609
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: are you gonna do? I was like, I can't not

610
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: do it, Like it's never sat right with me that

611
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: I didn't in the first time, like I'm the guy

612
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: telling other people to do this, Like I gotta do

613
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: it at this point. So I turned him in and

614
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: it ended up being three women. There was a younger

615
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: lady who I guess had come down to hunt and

616
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: didn't get a deer, and they were like, oh, well,

617
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: we'll get you a deer. They went out to get

618
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: a deer and they all three. I was in the courtroom.

619
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 1: They all ended up pleading guilty. You know, there's no

620
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: reason to say their names at this point or anything,

621
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: but they you know, they got multiple violations and each

622
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: about a thousand dollars and fines and and pled guilty

623
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: to that. But the suspect uh in burning down my cabin.

624
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: It's like one of those women's boyfriend's son who's been

625
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: like in and out of prison all this time, and

626
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: now he's back in prison. So that was like November,

627
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: and it was January four when this dude came and

628
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: burned your What was the date he burned on your place?

629
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: It was at like ten o'clock at night on January four.

630
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: Got trio cam. Yeah, so I set out and I

631
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: told that before too, you know, I I thought I'll

632
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: set some trail cameras out where they'll think these are

633
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: the cameras that I'm using to protect the property. And

634
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: then I took the real cameras and hit them much

635
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: further back in the woods and had like good shots

636
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: of them. So I got pictures of the dude like

637
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: on the porch, walking up to the cabin carrying a

638
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 1: rifle and a bottle and that's obviously like a bottle

639
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: of accelerant. And then I've got a picture of him leaving, uh,

640
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: leaving the property with fire coming out of the far

641
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: back window. And then I got a thirty second time

642
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: lapse of it burning for the next hour until the

643
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: fierty part gets there. And then there's actually a picture

644
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: in me like when I approach that the trail cam caught.

645
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, they actually pulled the chips on the dummy cameras,

646
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: thinking like this idiot, you put these cameras right where

647
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: we can see him, you know. So the trap worked,

648
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: and uh so I got I got the photos, and

649
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: I went I went to court like multiple times, and

650
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: it was a very interesting experience, you know. And you

651
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: can show the photos of this dude from his Facebook

652
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: and he's wearing like the same mossy oak sweatshirt and

653
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: that the pictures to me are very clear, like I

654
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: know who it is. But in a court of law

655
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: in a county of eight thousand people, where four thousand

656
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: of them are probably related, like, is it enough evidence

657
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: is demonstrate some doubt? Right? So they get a lawyer

658
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: for this guy and they're talking about this sweatshirt in

659
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: this court case and Shags is there with me in

660
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: the courtroom and the sweatshirt that everybody in that county has.

661
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: So that's the lawyer's point, right, And he goes to

662
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: the to the the deputy that's on the stand at

663
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: the time, they're like, what about the sweatshirt and he's like, well, yeah,

664
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: it's very clear sweatshirt. And he goes, could that be

665
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: a sweatshirt that everybody in this county has? Do you

666
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,959
Speaker 1: yourself phone that sweatshirt? No? I do not, says says

667
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: the uh county policeman. No I do not, because you

668
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: do not? Well, do you have a massio cat? No

669
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: I do not. He goes, well, do you know people

670
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: in your family that do? No? I do not. He says,

671
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: well what do you do? He goes, we're that other?

672
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: What's that other? One, and somebody in the back of

673
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: the courtroom yells real Tree court. Yes, in court, and

674
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: the whole like now the courtrooms laughing like we're a

675
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: real Tree family, which makes total saying oh yeah. Like

676
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: so it's a long story short. We've been going through

677
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: the and if you would have wanted to take that logic,

678
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: you could have been like they sold eleven thousand units

679
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: of that, so you know, to me, it's it's very clear.

680
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: But what had happened is three other cabins and I'm

681
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: aware of were burned down within twelve months of mine,

682
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: prior to mine, and one sense mine and a United

683
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: States federal property, the Round Spring Rangers Station, which we'll

684
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: get to, but nobody had been told was torched, and

685
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: that's in retaliate. The story just keeps going, man like,

686
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: so I start making a stink about it, like most

687
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: people just took it like there's nothing they can do.

688
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: They show up their cabins burned down, there's no evidence,

689
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: there's no cameras, there's no nothing. Well, I know who

690
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: did it, and I go to the Lieutenant governor, sit

691
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: right down in his office. I called my congresswoman, like

692
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: I just immediately communicating with the head of the Department

693
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: of Conservation Law Enforcement, and talking to the director, I

694
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: get one person removed from the FBI. Like, I just

695
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: went as deep as I could go, as fast as

696
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: I could do it. And the cabin was burned on

697
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: January five, and that dude was rested on January fifteenth,

698
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: and he hasn't been out of jail a day since

699
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: and he's still still not been charged with mine. The

700
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: beauty is is when he had broken into another cabin,

701
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: he left his parole papers behind. I had to keep

702
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: him someplace dry, right, and he wanted to keep those safe, uh,

703
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: and and had committed back that sending explain it to

704
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: me again. So he was squatting in some dudes cabin

705
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: and was you know, I had his parole papers and

706
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: left him on the table. So that's how they knew

707
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: he was there. And ultimately he's pled guilty to this charge.

708
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 1: Like I'm trying to understand, Like, well, when you think

709
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: a point just not like he just forgot his possessions.

710
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: Would usually a place you probably take a picture of

711
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: your kids, right, you know, you gotta have some documentation

712
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 1: to get around in the world. So he had stolen

713
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: some stuff like a four wheeler and a generator. And

714
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: but the real, like the part that like is crazy

715
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: is like he had these outstanding felonies hanging over him

716
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: since two thousand and sixteen, and nobody triggered him. Like

717
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: he was going to like probation meetings and they're like, oh, yeah,

718
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: like you've got two felonies that we could ring you

719
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: up on, but you know, keep your nose clean and

720
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: what sorts of felonies. It was a Class CY felony

721
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: for like theft, and I don't I don't know exactly,

722
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: I don't have to go into that case net and

723
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: look it up. But but ultimately stealing that four wheeler

724
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 1: and and uh generator or whatever that constitutes a Class

725
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: C felony, and burning my entire house down is a

726
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: Class D felony. So the way like burning your house, everything,

727
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: everything into the ground with an accelerant because there was

728
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: no yeah, like no potential for physical harm to a

729
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 1: human supposedly is what dropped the charge. But the dude

730
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 1: carrying a rifle and how does he know your buddy's

731
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 1: not staying, My kids weren't sleeping in a room upstairs.

732
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: You understand, like what like what does that go by

733
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't like two guys go to

734
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: stay in your cabin, one of them runs into town

735
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: to get a couple of cool ones. There's no car there, right,

736
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 1: I don't get like what it doesn't make sense to me.

737
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: I don't either. If you burn a large structure with

738
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: multiple bedrooms down, I don't think you could have should

739
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: be allowed to be like I knew no one was there.

740
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: How did you know when no one was there? I agree?

741
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: But anyways, the charges of stealing the fore wheeler and

742
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: the generator were higher, and he's since pled guilty to those.

743
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: It's worse to steal the generator and a quad runner

744
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 1: than it is to burn someone's house to the ground,

745
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: must be, at least in this case. But if he

746
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: would have gotten charged on both, I was told that

747
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: those sentences could be run concurrently. So honestly, you know,

748
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: other than me being able to have the satisfaction of

749
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: saying that like he did it for sure, you know,

750
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: legally I could say that right now, I have to say, like,

751
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: he's a suspect, but he's in prison. It's a five

752
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: year stints. Yeah, when he's out, can you get him

753
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: after for Bernard cavan down, there's like three years. I

754
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: think we have three years, and and that's why, you know,

755
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: like there's still an ongoing case. I actually called the

756
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: prosecutor and I got a call back from the agent

757
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: and he was like, this is what you shouldn't say,

758
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: this is what you you know you can say, but

759
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: be very clear that he's a suspect because it's an

760
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: ongoing investigation. So are you are you breaking any rules

761
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: right now by talking to us and saying what you're saying.

762
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so, like that's all

763
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: out there. But aren't there multiple suspects because things just

764
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,479
Speaker 1: keep getting burned down? Or is this you're just saying,

765
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 1: we're just talking like about my place. So so then

766
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: what I did is I went, you know, I'm very

767
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: friendly with the Department of Conservation. You know Sarah Parker

768
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: Pauli our directors, like a personal mentor of mine. I

769
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 1: think she's one of the most outstanding conservationists in the country.

770
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: And but I went to and I said, look, you

771
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: got a for two acres of public land in this county.

772
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: It's obviously known as one of these places where like

773
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: infringements happened, but we divide up our agents essentially two

774
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: by two by two. We don't need the same number

775
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: of conservation agents in downtown St. Louis as we need

776
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 1: in Shannon County. So at what point are we gonna

777
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: like ramp up enforcement down here? And boy, ramp it

778
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: up they did. They were flying helicopters over these camps

779
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: and it was hilarious, you know, like they started a

780
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 1: Facebook like page to fight back, to get a petition

781
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: so they would be left alone. They're gonna get a

782
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: petition done that they were going to give to the

783
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: sheriff so law enforcement would leave them alone while they

784
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: were conducting their poaching. I don't know, it went it

785
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: went away after a while, but they were like so

786
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: mad that like helicopters were like coming and sitting over

787
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: the top of them while they were running their dogs illegally.

788
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: So what they do is that they released these dogs.

789
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm the first one to sit here

790
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: and say, like what you're doing with mingus is awesome,

791
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: like having hounds and with hounds and all of it,

792
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: you know, I love it all, but in this sense,

793
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: in this instance, it's illegal, and it's illegal because they're

794
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: running them on everybody else's private property. They're shooting every

795
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: day that they can shoot. It's taken this property that

796
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: I developed in my dream and essentially ruining it. As

797
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: like hound after hound after hound comes through my forty

798
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 1: acres on opening day of deer season. And the worst

799
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: part of it is is they'll run the dogs towards

800
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: the river, and the deer will get in the river,

801
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: and then they'll they'll watch on their GPS as to

802
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: where these deer are gonna cross or where the dogs

803
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 1: are gonna cross the deer, and they'll run a jetboat

804
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: up there and and shoot the deer like as it's

805
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: trying to get across the river. So it's you know,

806
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: it's just this ongoing battle, and they like they make

807
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: t shirts for it, like it's our tradition or whatever.

808
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: And the hound hunting is illegal there. Yeah, how long

809
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: has it been illegal for forever? Hunting the deer's illegal, Yeah,

810
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: I mean coyote hunt you can yeah by saying how,

811
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: I mean like how running and it's a it's a

812
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: just an ongoing battle. That's even more evidence than Missouri

813
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: is the North. That's a good point. Remember I sent

814
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: you that quote that one time about Missouri. You know

815
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: that it's just kind of its own place. Um, so

816
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: you know that that was a big issue. Was like

817
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: the hounds that just continuously run through and and then

818
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: they get this like uh effort to try to curb

819
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: it this year, and and some dude in retaliation goes

820
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: and burns down the Round Spring Ranger Station, like this

821
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: very historic building that had all the records of you know,

822
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: the area and the river ways. And and they got

823
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: him too, like he's in jail now, and was he

824
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: a local? Yeah? Yeah yeah? Was he a foulon? Yeah?

825
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, we should have you should have a

826
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: poster of him in here. It would fit with your motif,

827
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 1: like have a picture, yeah, creek, we get that picture.

828
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. He was quickly apprehended and brought to justice.

829
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: That was a guy that has that distinctly, Matthew looked

830
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: to him. He's messed up, man, that's him. Yeah, burned

831
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: down the station there. They stole a truck too, and

832
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: that was like outside of their m O. Like it's

833
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 1: normally not theft normally, it's just like because you don't

834
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: get in that much trouble as long as you don't

835
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: steal a generator. Uh, And then right after that, some

836
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: other guy came in out of a small town like

837
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: kind of in between where I live and this, and

838
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: and bought like a big chunk of property, like a

839
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: five hundred acre chunk of property. And there's all these

840
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: like unincorporated roads, old logging roads that are still used

841
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: for transportation. And the people who had owned this property

842
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: before left this gate open, and he came in and

843
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: locked it. So they ripped the gate out, burned his

844
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: house down, burned his tractors everything. He's like a he's

845
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: like a farm, but insurance agents. So I found his

846
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: office and went and talked to him. Its like, was

847
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: he well insured? Yeah? Yeah, I mean he's a but

848
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: you can always use more because it's more. But you know,

849
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: it's like welcome to the area, man, you know. And

850
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: again like, have they apprehended who burnt his place down? No? No,

851
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: But it was a blue pickup truck because it left

852
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: blue paint on, left blue paint on the gate on

853
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: the getaway, smashed through the gate. They never call who

854
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: burned that place down? And there's your whatever happened to

855
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: going over to talk? I like that, man, I gotta

856
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: go over and burn that house down, right, so damn.

857
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: So the battle continues. I suppose and I sold the property.

858
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: Story sold the property. I did. Honestly, I don't feel

859
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: safe going down there. I mean there's been things said

860
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 1: and and uh and messages given. I didn't know you

861
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: sold it. Did nearly quadrupled my money on it, So

862
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't all bad. Did you have did you put

863
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: a little disclosure in there? It ended up going to

864
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: a guy. What's really nice is it went to a

865
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: guy who's related to some really good people down there,

866
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: and he called me recently and he got my email

867
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: and emailed me, and I called him back and he

868
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: wanted to know about like the plumbing system, and I

869
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: think it's in good hands. I'm happy for him, and

870
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: I feel like a few years from now I could

871
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: go down there and like have a beer on the

872
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: porch with him, Like he was a good dude. I'm

873
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: glad it went to him. No ship think you like

874
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: so you rolled away? Yeah? Man, Like I it's like

875
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: Hatfield and McCoy's, I can't go down there. Like there's

876
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: families down there that are like on my side, and

877
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: they got to like secretly be on my side, you know,

878
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: like they turned into this thing. And there's two little

879
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: boys that live down in that road that are you know,

880
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 1: very special to me, Like I really really care about

881
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: him and uh and their parents are my gonna be

882
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: lifelong friends. And there's an old guy, but they gotta

883
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: flip you off when you're in town. I just don't

884
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: go down there. They come up and see me, you know.

885
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: And I don't remember if you met that old man

886
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: I called the mayor, Darryl Tucker like I called him.

887
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 1: I don't want to drove around spoken cigarettes, drinking bush.

888
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: He weighs like a ten pounds and drinks. Mayor. Yeah,

889
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: so he's still down there, but he's selling his place

890
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 1: and getting out too. At this point he's going back

891
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: back north little ways and for the same reason. Yeah,

892
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: it just became like uncomfortable. It just it just became uncomfortable.

893
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: So but there's people down there, man that I care about. Like, no, no,

894
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: they're not winning. They're not winning. It's like their way

895
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: life is changing. Like and if I can affect it

896
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: from the outside by bringing in you know, heat, justice

897
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,359
Speaker 1: or whatever and and making sure that you know, they

898
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: don't do it to the next guy, then then I win. Wow.

899
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: I had no idea. Yeah, we're gonna set up shops

900
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: somewhere else. I don't know, not yet. I did, you know,

901
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: pick up a small forty acre chunk in North Missouri.

902
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: It's like a forty acre bean field where he killed

903
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: giant ball Bucks killed some really good ones there. But

904
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: it's not the dream, you know that I might join

905
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 1: Yanni up in Wisconsin. I've been looking up around Hayward,

906
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: like when when I was growing up, you know, it

907
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: was like that whole Chicago land area. Every how do

908
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: you feel about that? You honest outside moving in, you know,

909
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: y burnt Yanni and the mother Lavian's will burn. The

910
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: story will be even better when it's against Lavian. I'm

911
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: building my next house out of concrete blocks, big box. Yeah,

912
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: so no, man, I you know, growing up, it was

913
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: we'd go to Michigan, we'd go to Wisconsin. Like that's

914
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: what we did. We just went north. I'm sure you

915
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: guys went north all the time to even though you're

916
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: already kind of up then all some one day you

917
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: wake up and all the big bucks or southea. Yeah, yeah,

918
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: there weren't big bucks up there when you were a kid.

919
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 1: It was like everybody knew the good deer hunting. Wherever

920
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: you lived, you went a little bit north and then

921
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: one day, like I said in the nine early nineties,

922
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: also was like you were leaving Big Box to go

923
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: up in the woods and to go up north and

924
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: hunt for keys. Yeah, in the in the swamps. So

925
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: I don't know where I'll build another place. I mean

926
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: I lived out here for four years walking down Main

927
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: Street today, you know, I lived in Bozeman in two

928
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 1: thousand and six, and it looks a lot different. You

929
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: keep hearing the stories the Bos Angeles is, as Cal

930
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: said earlier, and you've been in Los Angeles, yeah, quite

931
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: a few times. Not quite there yet, not enough stut

932
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: started out like sleeping little bird, just like this place. However,

933
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 1: rodeo team I heard, you know, I don't I've never

934
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 1: been anywhere I like more in Montana, that whole area

935
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: up and there. I think that's still kind of unspoiled.

936
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: So that might be a place that I look at

937
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: you not anymore that out Yeah, bleep it out just

938
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: like we did last ball, and they're like, yeah, they

939
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: don't like outsiders. Everybody in that towns and outside not everybody,

940
00:52:52,719 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: but it's like whatever, we'll call that don't get me started. So, um,

941
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:01,959
Speaker 1: what you end up doing with the money people raised

942
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 1: after you burned the cabin after they burned the cabin down.

943
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: Thanks for asking. I did want to address that. You know,

944
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 1: you guys helped push this go fund me, which was

945
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: a strange feeling, you know, like I'm I'm not in

946
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: a situation where like where I needed financial help, but

947
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: it was very very comforting to have that and what

948
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: you guys did, and and Pat Durkin and and so

949
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: many other people and kind of helping tell that story

950
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: and push it. Like the feeling of like camaraderie from

951
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: the industry was so much greater than the money that

952
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 1: came into that account. But I went up to Michigan

953
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,240
Speaker 1: and bought a stealth Craft drift boat out of Baldwin

954
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: and a brand new six horse four stroke motor. Um

955
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: and I've still got a little bit left and going

956
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: to figure out what to do with it. Um. But yeah,

957
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: the industry man like it was so good. Camp chef

958
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: sent a they sent so much stuff at truck showed

959
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: up with like a palette. Yeah. And sadly, Tim Anderson

960
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: was a longtime mossioa guy, and you know he passed

961
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: away unexpectedly, but he sent me like a note and said, hey,

962
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: our mutual friend Pat Dirk, and I was telling me

963
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: your story. I hope this helps. And he sent me

964
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 1: like all this Mossio clothes and um, yet he sent

965
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: me a new cooler. I mean, like people just really

966
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: really stepped up, and you guys had a lot to

967
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 1: do with that. And and I'll tell you, you you know,

968
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: like I expected to have these emotions of like vengeance

969
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 1: and like real deep seated anger, and it never happened.

970
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: It still hasn't happened. Like it's just acceptance. And like

971
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: stranger showed up. We did a clean up day and

972
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: like people I had never met showed up to help

973
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: me clean it up, and like run trailers up to

974
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: the scrapyard and we scrapped it all. The guy brought

975
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: a tractor and you know, we all went out for

976
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: dinner and you know, we cleaned. It took five years

977
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: to build that place, an hour for it to burn down,

978
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: in four hours to take everything to the scrap yard.

979
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: But like, dude, the you know, for lack of a

980
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 1: better word, just like the love from people, like I've

981
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: never really felt anything like that before, Like it was

982
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 1: incredibly humbling and comforting, and the positives that came out

983
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: of the experience have like outweighed the negatives. And it's

984
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 1: it's hard to listen to my kids talk about like

985
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: missing it, you know, because I truly did build like

986
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: it was like my Willie Wonka chocolate factory, you know,

987
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: like it was my dream place that I wanted when

988
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: I was a kid. So my kids could have what

989
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: I had manifested in my head so many years ago.

990
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 1: And they would bring their friends down and these are

991
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: like mostly girls that had never been on a river before,

992
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: so they were kayaking and rafting and jumping off cliffs

993
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: and catching crawdads and fishing, and like that was the

994
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: best part of it all. I was like sharing that

995
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: and getting them to put their phones down, Like for

996
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: the longest time, I didn't even have the internet, so

997
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: they were forced to like play cards, read books, you know.

998
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: And and that's the part that I missed so much,

999
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 1: is because like my girls are going to be a sophomore,

1000
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: going to be a senior, and they're in this position

1001
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: like now where it would have been even as they're

1002
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: getting older, it would have been even more fun, you know,

1003
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: to have them down there on the rivers and doing that.

1004
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 1: So so yeah, I'm looking for like a comeback spot,

1005
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: you know, because I want to be able to provide that.

1006
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: But you know, they're gonna be going to college soon.

1007
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: The older one she wants to come here. She was

1008
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,439
Speaker 1: born in Montana, so she has like a big spot

1009
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 1: in her heart from Montana. The younger one wants to

1010
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: go to Florida and be a marine biologist. So they're

1011
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: gonna split which after that, I don't I don't know

1012
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 1: where I'm gonna build a place. But I've always loved

1013
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: the north Woods, always loved the North Country. So I'll

1014
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,879
Speaker 1: keep us posted. Man. Yeah, maybe I'll invite you once

1015
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: it's all finished this time, please, But with all all

1016
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: the poachers around, I don't know if I'll be able

1017
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 1: to find a crippled up Turkey that's someone that shouting

1018
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: with twenty two. Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean,

1019
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: I assume a lot of listeners probably know that you

1020
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: guys came and Turkey hunted there. But that was a

1021
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,439
Speaker 1: lot of fun. And you know, Clay Nucom was there

1022
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: and we fried Crappy and Bear Grease. Hal Herring came

1023
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: down there, Hal who lives in Augusta, Montana said the

1024
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: coldest night he's ever had in his life was in

1025
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: that cabin and the governor. Damn, it became a really

1026
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: special place. Was it was a place to like highlight

1027
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: the beauty of this region and like all the natural

1028
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: um serenity that can and does exist in pockets. But

1029
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,959
Speaker 1: it's just curbing that that mentality of like this few,

1030
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: these few people against the world. All right, I'm gonna

1031
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: jump into the corner cross the situation. Ready, yeah, let me.

1032
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: I want to do a quick because we've we've talked

1033
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: about so I'm gonna do a quick recap for people,

1034
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: and then you can we can get into details that

1035
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: you guys, because I got a bunch of questions. Um,

1036
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 1: as we've explained, Yanni explained corner crossing. You've done enough.

1037
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: You're probably good at it. For the for the thirtieth

1038
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: time on this show. If you look at Yanni's in scene,

1039
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:28,479
Speaker 1: he can he can straddle a corner like no other. Uh.

1040
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: And a lot of Western states when uh they became states,

1041
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: they were given land um from the railroads. Correct me

1042
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong here, I'm sitting still hitting down the

1043
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: right pathcal and Uh, they ended up being public and

1044
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: private land that was literally put out in a checkerboard fashion,

1045
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 1: So you can imagine a chackerboard, all the red of

1046
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: being public and all the lack being private or vice versa,

1047
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: doesn't matter anyways, I can't what was the reasoning for

1048
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: that in the original. It's so the railroads were given

1049
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: a ton of land in order to open up the West,

1050
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: basically for taxpayer base, right, the railroads were the most

1051
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: efficient vehicle to get a bunch of people seeded out

1052
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: into the Great Unknown in order to start bringing in

1053
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,919
Speaker 1: more cash for for the government. And they were being

1054
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: they were being compensated for the track building with land

1055
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: grants exactly exactly. So, um, it's funny that you bring

1056
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: up hal Herring because he had this great quote and

1057
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: he calls it an unholy union between government and industry.

1058
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: And uh so, yeah, they got all this land. They

1059
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 1: could sell it, they could lease it, they could do

1060
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: whatever they want with it. And then there's also like

1061
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: the state house sections, which when a state became a

1062
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: state from a territory, they were also granted sections of

1063
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: lands set aside for the purpose of raising funds for

1064
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: public education, um or just raising raising funds in general.

1065
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: So do you know the reason for the actual checkerboard pattern?

1066
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 1: You know what? It all came out of the jefferson

1067
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: Ian grid system, which is how we came up with

1068
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: this marker system, right, the monument markers that that show

1069
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: the checkerboard deal. But it's this idea that that Thomas

1070
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: Jefferson came up with to literally make sense out of

1071
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 1: something like that doesn't make any sense to people. Right, Like,

1072
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: I'm staring at what could be described as the Hell's

1073
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: Canyon landscape behind Steve right now, and that's it's like

1074
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: trying to make nice even grids that can be divvied up,

1075
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: soul old and accounted for with our tax system and

1076
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: revenue system that we have even in a place where

1077
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: little grids don't always work. So corner crossing being yeah,

1078
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: so it ends up being that there's all this public

1079
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: land that is um again either the blue or the

1080
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: or the sorry, the black or the red on a checkerboard,

1081
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: and it's inaccessible because most believe that you cannot go

1082
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: from one corner of public to another corner of public

1083
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: because you violate the person's airspace as your shoulders and

1084
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: hips pass over their land. You're doing them harm. Well, technically,

1085
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 1: it's not just your whole shoulders and hips. I mean

1086
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: it's your body. Whatever the hell. Yeah, no, I mean, yeah,

1087
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,439
Speaker 1: it's your whole it's your whole body, because that that

1088
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: corner isn't defined. It's infinite and all. It's infinitely finite. Yeah,

1089
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 1: the narrowest line. But the philosopher and you could say

1090
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: that I am equitably in all four places. Sorry, man,

1091
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: equal parts public as to private. It's only half of

1092
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: me is doing only half of me is problematic. It's

1093
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: infinitely fine, but it's still a problem. So a lot

1094
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: of states have this is a a giant question mark

1095
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: looms over the issue of corner crossing where states, like

1096
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: the state of Montana, they basically recommend against it. Right.

1097
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: In some places it's not it's like not specifically clear,

1098
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: like people might recommend against it. There might be sort

1099
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: of a question mark lingering over whether it's okay or not.

1100
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: Um Our guests here got a little bit, i'll see,

1101
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 1: got famous in the in the in the in the

1102
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: access world, in the public access world, got famous for

1103
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: going into, going in and hunting an area where they

1104
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: had corner crossed. Okay, in Wyoming, in Wyoming. Now, can

1105
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: you guys lay out what you were trying to act? Like?

1106
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: How much ground were you trying to access through the

1107
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: corner hopping of? How many corners can you can you?

1108
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: Would you mind to introduce to do that first? My

1109
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: name is Brad Brad Cape. We're from Missouri. Uh my

1110
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 1: buddy Phil sitting over here. Go ahead, Phil, Philly yeomans

1111
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 1: from Missouri. From Missouri. So, so to back up a

1112
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: little bit, be in Missouri Ozarkins? Did you burn his

1113
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: place down? I know she has clear the area. We're

1114
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: only an hour or so from that area. We're like

1115
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: the north of the Ozarks. He's deep in the Ozarks.

1116
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: So to be sitting in Missouri and thinking about corner

1117
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: crossing is non existent. It's not a thought process, you know,

1118
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: it's unheard of. Um So, because the land is not

1119
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: laid out like that wrecked I cannot explain our story

1120
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: if I'm not standing on a sidewalk or a tile floor,

1121
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 1: it's it's unexplainable, which typically front in Missouri. So when

1122
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: we found this place that we wanted to look at

1123
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: and was looking for access in there, it was an

1124
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 1: it was a no brainer. You know, I can park

1125
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: right here on the corner on the County road and

1126
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: walk right into this thing. That's what I wanted to

1127
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,920
Speaker 1: ask you, guys, like you picked that spot based on

1128
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 1: what that little corner would then give you access to

1129
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: potentially one of the reasons that's okay, we're getting into

1130
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: one of my main question, Bonds can hit it right

1131
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: now because you're kind of answering it. You weren't looking

1132
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: to do like a Rosa Parks asked civil disobedience. You

1133
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: were looking to get some hunting in. Absolutely, We're just hunters.

1134
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: You were there because they were out, absolutely, and we

1135
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: could draw up permit, you know, just like that. Because

1136
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: I think there's the impression from a lot of people

1137
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: that it was like all these are the guys that

1138
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna push it until something happened, just to clear

1139
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: things up, like you're gonna go and get in trouble

1140
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: on purpose. Yeah, it was never a thought process. I mean,

1141
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: it never entered our mind. We never dreamed in a

1142
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: million years that I'd be sitting here right now because

1143
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: I stepped through air. You know, our bank accounts wouldn't

1144
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: be big enough or something like that. And uh, you

1145
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: know I've been talking about public lands for a long

1146
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: long time. And I'll be real honest that the great

1147
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:41,919
Speaker 1: public land battles of Missouri don't come into into play

1148
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: real often, so advocates from Missouri is kind of uh stretch,

1149
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:52,959
Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So we we looked at draw

1150
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,919
Speaker 1: statistics and kill statistics and we're looking for a place

1151
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: to hunt. You know, it is all that was. And

1152
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: so when I'm like, hey, we can get a tag

1153
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: right here, you know, then we actually went there first

1154
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: and went two thousand nineteen, leaving from a antelope hunt,

1155
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, let's go drive around this. So we

1156
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: go and drive around this mountain and this is the

1157
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 1: first week of rifle season for ELK and there's no camps,

1158
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: there's nobody there, there's not a track. We pull off

1159
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:28,959
Speaker 1: and work on our trailer lights, there's no vehicles go by.

1160
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 1: So we're like, we're onto something here. We got our

1161
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: own little oasis. We just gotta figure out where to

1162
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 1: park and how to get in there and hunt. Got it.

1163
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: So that was the gist of of the whole deal.

1164
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: But how when you lined out the property you wanted

1165
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 1: to get into and where you could park, how are

1166
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: you certain that you were going to be able to

1167
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 1: do that step where where there's you have a foot

1168
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: on public and you're placing your their foot on public

1169
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 1: even though you just stepped from a red checker spot

1170
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 1: to a red checker spot. You know, because there's the

1171
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 1: question where fences aren't accurately laid down? You you know,

1172
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: you gotta be pretty good right to know that one

1173
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: ft and one and one fts in the other. Was

1174
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: this the thing you thought about? Is were you thinking

1175
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: about precision at all? I'm a fence builder by trade,

1176
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 1: so I've been around property corners, property lines, researched all

1177
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: of this. That's what I've done for thirty three years,

1178
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 1: you know. So somebody had a question looks like I

1179
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 1: know how to find the survey steak um. So that's

1180
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 1: what we did. But but did it even the first

1181
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 1: time you did it? Where was it even in your

1182
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: head that, look, we're going to corner cross or where

1183
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 1: you were you just like we're just gonna go from

1184
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 1: here to here to hunt like you like a corner

1185
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 1: crossing thing. Was it even an issue? Did you know

1186
01:07:56,680 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: you weren't really supposed to do it? No, it was

1187
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: a laughable thought that we couldn't step from here to here,

1188
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 1: and I think, like not even to the point where

1189
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: you wanted to call and clarify, just like why not.

1190
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: It was laughable, honestly laughable to us that and everybody

1191
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: we talked to that you can't step from one to

1192
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 1: the other. But why the latter, because this is my

1193
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: other big question you brought a later kay ah, yeah,

1194
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 1: that's later. Um. So we're still in the two thousand

1195
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: nineteen season right now. Well, we didn't hunt nineteen. We

1196
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 1: just looked at it and said, yeah, that's a place

1197
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 1: we want to go. So back home through the next year,

1198
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: studying maps of where public is and roads and how

1199
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 1: to get in there. We do that. We go in

1200
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: there and hunt. It was easy, it was fun. We

1201
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: didn't have any problems until we haven't. Elpdown. Um ended up.

1202
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:57,879
Speaker 1: Deputy comes out, landowner. This is not a conservation officer.

1203
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: Deputy well, a sheriff's deputy. If we roll back a

1204
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:09,320
Speaker 1: little bit, the landowner calls deputy. I call the game warden.

1205
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:15,480
Speaker 1: Game warden says, we don't even come out and investigate

1206
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: these sort of things. You're corner crossing. It's nothing to

1207
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: hear for us to do. The deputy. No, the game warden. Okay.

1208
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: The game warden says, I don't do I don't take

1209
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: corner cross and calls correct. And we had read the

1210
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: Attorney General's Peace. You know that everybody's read and Game

1211
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 1: and Fish site. We're we had this conversation even we're hunters.

1212
01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:40,560
Speaker 1: So where do you research when you're an out of

1213
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: state hunter? You the website for the Game and Fish Commission.

1214
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's where we got our information. Um, we

1215
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: call the game warden from up on the mountain because

1216
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 1: I can see the deputy down in the valley and say,

1217
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 1: I gotta make sure I'm getting this right. And this

1218
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:00,799
Speaker 1: is you cross the corner correct, And then you're hunting

1219
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: the land you got into correct. And you look and

1220
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 1: lo and behold you see a deputy correct down at

1221
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 1: the corner at your truck. No, not at the corner

1222
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 1: in the in a canyon there, and we were up

1223
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 1: on the mountain and you feel as always looking for

1224
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: you correct. You just feel this. So you know we

1225
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 1: knew the game word or not? The game warden, UH,

1226
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 1: help me outfill the landowner the ranch manager says, he

1227
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: comes and sees us and says, hey, you're not supposed

1228
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: to be here. We say we're on public land. He says, okay,

1229
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 1: I'll go call the deputy. I got you. We say great, Um,

1230
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: so we go on. When the deputy shows up, we

1231
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 1: are up on the mountain and so then we don't

1232
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: know whether we have to turn around and go back

1233
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 1: down to see the deputy or carry on. And so

1234
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 1: I called the game warden and said, what's my obligation here?

1235
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 1: What do I do? And he says, your obligation is

1236
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 1: to go to the elk that you have down. You know,

1237
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: if the deputy doesn't have his lights on and isn't

1238
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 1: hollering for you over the speaker, your obligation is to

1239
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 1: your down elk, which is a legal obligation. Correct. So

1240
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: that's what we've done. Fast forward today. I believe deputy

1241
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: had came to our camp and left a note on

1242
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 1: my truck window said call me. So we call him.

1243
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,719
Speaker 1: He comes, We have a meeting, a pow wow. He says,

1244
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,600
Speaker 1: you guys aren't doing anything wrong. The deputy, the deputy,

1245
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:36,679
Speaker 1: why is he there then? Because he was called there

1246
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,840
Speaker 1: so he had to call and investigate, you know. So

1247
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:42,560
Speaker 1: he comes, he's like, I'll go out and take a

1248
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: look at my own two eyes. Yeah, he come out

1249
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 1: and talk to us, and his investigation determined that you're

1250
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 1: not doing anything wrong. He says, go hunt. You know.

1251
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 1: Phil even said, so we're good to go. You know

1252
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: this is in two thousand twenties. Says, yeah, you're good

1253
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 1: to go. We told him how we crossed the corner.

1254
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: You're good to go, and I'm gonna go tell the landowner.

1255
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 1: There's nothing he can do about it. So that was

1256
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 1: what what are you thinking now, Phil? What are you thinking? Yeah?

1257
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: Thinking we're we're good to go. You know how else?

1258
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 1: I thought about it long and harder. All right, you

1259
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: guys thinking, you guys got a pretty good hunting spot.

1260
01:12:27,479 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 1: You spend a few more days hunting there, and we

1261
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 1: were actually tagged out and we're backing animals. We took

1262
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 1: two days to tag out. So there was no no

1263
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:44,639
Speaker 1: altercation with the law on that trip. No no no

1264
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 1: citations issued, nothing, nothing nothing. All the combusion that he

1265
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 1: came to though, is you got a darned good helk

1266
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 1: hunting spot. Absolutely so, now how could you not think that? Right?

1267
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:00,840
Speaker 1: It's two thousand twenty one. So what it happened was

1268
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: landowner takes two tea posts and signs in a chain

1269
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: and goes over the top of that corner. But why

1270
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: are his tea posts on public land his tea post

1271
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: around private land private? How is he not violating like

1272
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 1: or does he do it in such a way that

1273
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: he's never his chain or nothing is on the You

1274
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:27,839
Speaker 1: can't because I'm saying, maybe he blocked only his corner,

1275
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 1: so you can't like enter his corner. What did he block?

1276
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 1: So the tea posts were one on each side of

1277
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 1: the corner on private on private property, and the chain

1278
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: was stretching across chain between him with with signage. Okay,

1279
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,600
Speaker 1: and since these corners are infinitely finite, his chain is

1280
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: on public land, that's the way we see it. When

1281
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: he used the signs. Yeah, he put one sign low

1282
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: on the post and one signed high on the post

1283
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 1: and overlapped him to try and block the whole corner.

1284
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: And you're seeing this for the first time. When you

1285
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 1: get there, you can see it. You can see it

1286
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: from the county road. So you so his positioning of

1287
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 1: the signs was like meant to be not informing someone

1288
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: was also meant to be preventing passage. Well, he testified

1289
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: in court that he took the chain down. Okay, and

1290
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 1: what was his reason for that? If we want to

1291
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 1: go there right now? But well, he was asked if

1292
01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:25,760
Speaker 1: that change served he said, it served no purpose. That's

1293
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: why he took it down. Why did you take the

1294
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: Chiant chain down? It served no purpose? Did? He wouldn't answer. Man,

1295
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: I need to go more of these court cases, man,

1296
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 1: just like conversation, the chain conversation. Okay. So yeah, go on,

1297
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: you're on the ground and you see this for the

1298
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: first time. We know the signs in the poster there

1299
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 1: because you see him when you show up. We knew

1300
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:57,719
Speaker 1: previously that they were there. We threw the latter in Missouri.

1301
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: Do it through like through the grape vine. I don't

1302
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:05,320
Speaker 1: need I don't need other details. But yeah, pretty much okay, okay, okay,

1303
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 1: So you became aware and so too, just out of

1304
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 1: respect for the landow like like, I'm not doing my

1305
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: job if I don't dig in a little bit here.

1306
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 1: I don't need to know specifics. But you leave in

1307
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:25,839
Speaker 1: twenty no sign, no arrest, no sign, no nothing. Signs

1308
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: were there in saying what no trespassing? Okay on this

1309
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:35,800
Speaker 1: section in this section, got it? And then you be

1310
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 1: you're made aware that this person has taken additional steps

1311
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: and has tried to obstruct the corner even though you

1312
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 1: were told by law enforcement that you're doing nothing wrong.

1313
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: That's how we took it. So rather than going and

1314
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 1: haggling about, well he needs to remove that and doing that,

1315
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, we'll just bypass the obstruction since we've

1316
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: been told we're okay, correct, We just made it easy.

1317
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: And in that interview, in the year between those two

1318
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 1: hunting seasons, had you learned more about what an issue

1319
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:16,640
Speaker 1: corner crossing was in the West, Like, you know, you

1320
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 1: weren't really aware of how crazy it was in in

1321
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 1: the next year, did you learn that it was a

1322
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 1: big deal out here? And I don't think anything changed. No, No,

1323
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 1: our minds weren't. But you didn't just casually start researching

1324
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 1: the issue in history of corn to the corner crossing

1325
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:39,479
Speaker 1: debate some yeah, but yeah, not enough for you to

1326
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 1: not enough to change your mind. There's so it was

1327
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: very simple for us. There's no law against corner crossing. Yeah,

1328
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 1: you know, if you get on the message boards, if

1329
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: you get on talking to whoever you want to talk to,

1330
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,559
Speaker 1: it's all fluff, it's all horseshit. You know, there is

1331
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 1: no law against corner crossing to deput He met and said, yes,

1332
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: go ahead, you know, game ward and won't even come out,

1333
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 1: you know, and and investigate it or even help us

1334
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: do it. In a state that's very, very friendly to landowners,

1335
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: like you know very well. We don't know this well no, no,

1336
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like Montana is known as a state

1337
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 1: that's like they don't have a lot against it, in

1338
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 1: a state that's very i would say friendly towards private landowners. Yeah,

1339
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 1: we're assuming, you know, we don't know. We just know

1340
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 1: there's no law against. That's that's our thought process. So

1341
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,560
Speaker 1: this so you're thinking, this guy can do whatever you want.

1342
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go bang on his door and ask

1343
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 1: him to move it. I'm just gonna go around it. Correct,

1344
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 1: you know, up and over? Who makes a good ladder

1345
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: for going over corners? A fence builders all type fence perfect. Yeah, yeah,

1346
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,760
Speaker 1: it's made out of fence pipe. It's really serendipitous as

1347
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 1: you man. Yeah, there were some strange things of how

1348
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 1: this all worked out. Can we have that fence for

1349
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: the for we have a thing called the auction House

1350
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 1: of Bodity. The ladder can we get that ladder that

1351
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,720
Speaker 1: I think we already offered it maybe to uh that

1352
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 1: country hunters and anglers like a like a like a

1353
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: like Adam see Him exhibit or something. We talked about.

1354
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 1: We talked about it donating it to the Carbon County Museum. No,

1355
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 1: that's a great idea, man. Is it lightweight? Is light

1356
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 1: enough to carry up there? You know I built it

1357
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,360
Speaker 1: as light as I could. Only had to go a

1358
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: couple hundred yards, you know, and still get over the corner.

1359
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 1: He trumped it out here on a trailer. Yeah, you'd

1360
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 1: get a little side business going. Man had to be

1361
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 1: very tall ladder, right, I know how tall teposts was,

1362
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 1: so we just made it six inches taller than that.

1363
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: It really seemed yeah, like a simple go together plan. Sure,

1364
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: and you're not just destroying or defacing private property because

1365
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 1: you're not doing anything to alter the t posts which

1366
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: are on private property. And we are private landowners back

1367
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:07,640
Speaker 1: in Missouri. You know, we've got public rivers go right

1368
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: through the middle of our place. You know, there's all

1369
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:13,639
Speaker 1: kinds of people using the public waterways, you know, through

1370
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 1: our land. So we we know how that game, you

1371
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:21,440
Speaker 1: know it's played. You just tolerate some things and established

1372
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: boundaries and just be respectful of people. You know, we

1373
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,679
Speaker 1: never thought for once that we were disrespecting anybody. Were

1374
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 1: somebody said we touched air. You know, that was just

1375
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:38,560
Speaker 1: crazy to us to think of such a thing. Okay,

1376
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:45,440
Speaker 1: so you show up, Um, do you want to take overfield?

1377
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 1: Want to talk about the whole hunt or what? Yeah?

1378
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 1: We no, not just friends. He has in high school

1379
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 1: with my wife somewhere a long time five six se

1380
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, and six handful of years you went

1381
01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:03,720
Speaker 1: to high school with his wife? Did you day hurt?

1382
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:07,719
Speaker 1: Did you guys have a lot of like Western hunting

1383
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:12,600
Speaker 1: experience or was it just I hunted Colorado for like

1384
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 1: through the nineties? Okay, so yeah, you know, but then

1385
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: a hiatus of raising a family and doing you know

1386
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 1: what everybody does, building fence, building fence, trying to make

1387
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: a living. Uh, me and Phil get to be buddies

1388
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:26,439
Speaker 1: and say hey let's go west. Got it? You know?

1389
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: So that's what we did. So we've been doing it

1390
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 1: handful of years. You are you fill your fifty? I

1391
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 1: got a birthday about I was gonna say six seven days?

1392
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 1: You guys neck and neck? You have you because you

1393
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 1: have built the fence. You I'm sorry, I'm sorry you

1394
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: built the ladder, UH to cross across the corner without

1395
01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 1: touching these private tea posts letter on private land? Have

1396
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:05,160
Speaker 1: you reached out to UH conservation officers? Are law enforcement

1397
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: prior to your trip to in addition to your preparation

1398
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 1: of how you're going to cross these teapots? No, we

1399
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:17,760
Speaker 1: had talked to law enforcement, you know, that said we

1400
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 1: were doing nothing wrong. Um. And so the latter's kind

1401
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:29,800
Speaker 1: of an extra, just just because you don't want to

1402
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: bend his ship out of the way, it's a it's

1403
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 1: an extra to be ultimately clear as to our intent, um.

1404
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: And even in one we rely on our intent. You

1405
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:47,240
Speaker 1: know our intent, we think or we think we're decent guys.

1406
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,360
Speaker 1: We're just trying to do things the right way, and

1407
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 1: our intent is to hunt public land. So I got

1408
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 1: a level of you on something, and I'm glad it

1409
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:56,599
Speaker 1: turned out the way it is. I in my mind

1410
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: leading into this day when I would meet you in

1411
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:03,639
Speaker 1: my mind and I I thought that there was more

1412
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 1: of a like um, like a like fixing, like trying

1413
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: to stick it to someone, screw him. Yeah, I didn't know,

1414
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: like like I thought that there was like a cuteness

1415
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 1: to the ladder, but the ladder is more like, no,

1416
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to It's absolutely a tool, you know.

1417
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah where you you know, you like had a legal

1418
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: scholar and be like, wow, let's try a ladder. No, no,

1419
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 1: we we've had our share of attorneys through this whole thing.

1420
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 1: You know. We're just a matter of what do we

1421
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: have to do to do it correctly to where nobody

1422
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 1: can question us. And we have a mentality of we

1423
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 1: will walk a mile further than the next guy. We

1424
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: will do whatever we have to do, you know, to

1425
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 1: to hunt, you know, to pursue our game, you know,

1426
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,639
Speaker 1: to be successful. We're gonna do what we have to do.

1427
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,680
Speaker 1: Got um American noble agree. Yeah. Yeah, it's just kind

1428
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: of how we roll, you know. So we get there,

1429
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 1: we take off up the mountain, you know, our very

1430
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:12,839
Speaker 1: first evening. Um, we spend the night up on the mountain,

1431
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, with the base camp done at our truck,

1432
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:19,920
Speaker 1: and at daylight the next morning, here's the ranch manager

1433
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:24,759
Speaker 1: guys driving up and down you know, through bll ground.

1434
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,599
Speaker 1: But they're they're hunting us. They're looking for us from

1435
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 1: the from the get go. Um, so they don't find

1436
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 1: us because we're up on the mountain overlooking them, and

1437
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 1: we take off and we spend four nights, four nights

1438
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: to evade them or take off up the mountain on

1439
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 1: our hunt, just like your camping. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um

1440
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: So we spend four days, four nights hunting off our back.

1441
01:23:55,840 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 1: Uh Phil kills will they fourth day? Um so we're

1442
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: archery hunting the first four days. Rifle season starts October one,

1443
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 1: so we have to go back to our truck camp

1444
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 1: switch out bows for rifles. And of course everybody knows,

1445
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, that archery seasons over rifle season starting. So

1446
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 1: they all, when I say, they all the ranch law

1447
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 1: enforcement whoever, they just set up and waited for us,

1448
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, to come in that evening. And so we

1449
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:31,640
Speaker 1: get that they know both seasons over correct, you know.

1450
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:33,360
Speaker 1: So it's a logical time we're gonna come back to

1451
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: our camp. So we get to the corner, we take

1452
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 1: our ladder, we go up and over the corner. We

1453
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 1: see trucks parked over here on the county road, and

1454
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 1: trucks parked over there on the county road with our

1455
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,680
Speaker 1: camp in the middle. We know these trucks you know,

1456
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 1: we've seen them their ranch employees like you guys are

1457
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 1: gonna quick pack up all that stuff and all house.

1458
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what they're thinking. They just

1459
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: don't like us there. And then the landowner is a

1460
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:04,600
Speaker 1: is a far parmaceutical feller, right where is he from?

1461
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:07,880
Speaker 1: North Carolina? North Carolina. He made a bunch of money

1462
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 1: in pharmaceuticals and bought that ranch. Huh, that's the way

1463
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 1: we understand it. Do you know they don't do any

1464
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 1: outfit in or guiding on that, not that I know

1465
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 1: of the research I'd done on the ranch is the

1466
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:24,240
Speaker 1: previous owner had some outfitting. But this guy I think

1467
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 1: just uses it as his private hunting oasis. You know.

1468
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: Don't blame him. Yeah, awesome, good for him. Whatever. So

1469
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 1: we crossed the corner. We're walking to our truck. I

1470
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 1: just happened to turn and look up and I see

1471
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:44,799
Speaker 1: dark green trucks sitting up on the up on the mountain.

1472
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 1: Assume it's a conservation agent, you know by his truck.

1473
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:51,400
Speaker 1: Tell the guys, hey, conservation agents is watching us, you know,

1474
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 1: And we talked about that's we we wanted them there.

1475
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 1: That's good because we can see these other guys staking

1476
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:01,880
Speaker 1: us out. We're wanting helped for a confrontation. That was

1477
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: one of the mouse to UM. We get to our camp.

1478
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:12,000
Speaker 1: It went in five minutes. Conservation guy pulls in, UM

1479
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:16,240
Speaker 1: and he's just smiling and laughing. He's like, I cannot

1480
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:21,880
Speaker 1: believe you guys built the ladder. You know. He's like,

1481
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 1: I even called my neighbor and said, you're not gonna

1482
01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 1: believe these guys built a freaking ladder, you know, to

1483
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,960
Speaker 1: go over this corner. And we're like, yeah, we knew

1484
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 1: what we had to do. He's like, well, I'm calling

1485
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: in deputies the ranch. We're all gonna have a meeting,

1486
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 1: and we're all gonna get on the same page, you know,

1487
01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 1: with what's going on here. Um. So we're like great, so,

1488
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 1: and this was all we we We were in our tent.

1489
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:50,719
Speaker 1: We maybe even ask him be on supper or something

1490
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 1: and supper drinks whatever. The deputy showed up, he goes

1491
01:26:56,200 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 1: outside the tent. We stayed in our tent. They go

1492
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:03,720
Speaker 1: out have a meeting. However, along with that CEO and

1493
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 1: the deputy. Yeah, yeah, two deputies. I picked that one.

1494
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 1: All the law enforcements getting there and the speed on

1495
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 1: what's going on, and the ranch manager, Oh so he's

1496
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:17,400
Speaker 1: got their ear then is there? Which is the famous

1497
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,679
Speaker 1: body cam video of him making an idiot of himself.

1498
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:24,800
Speaker 1: But and he was the one kind of threatening law

1499
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 1: enforcement with do you know who my correct you know

1500
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,120
Speaker 1: who my boss is? You know how much land he

1501
01:27:30,160 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 1: owns he has? I mean, it's but we don't know

1502
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 1: any of that's going on. It's a brutal deal too,

1503
01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:44,639
Speaker 1: like it's it's it is an important part of the picture,

1504
01:27:45,120 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: but it also has nothing to do with the picture.

1505
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:51,120
Speaker 1: But it's about fifty square miles of private land. It's

1506
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 1: a lot. And how much uh, how much did you

1507
01:27:55,600 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: guys figure you hunted of public land during your the

1508
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 1: season of confrontation will call it like eight sections something

1509
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,799
Speaker 1: like that. You can't have eight sections within eight sections

1510
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:15,120
Speaker 1: of public that he has the fifty thou of privates.

1511
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:17,479
Speaker 1: I'd have to look on a map. But that's that's

1512
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: pretty maybe something like that which you stepped foot in, right,

1513
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:27,599
Speaker 1: You didn't grid eight sections, which would be eight square

1514
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 1: miles were calling and hunting camping, Yeah, and we didn't.

1515
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:35,160
Speaker 1: We didn't grid it, but we covered that many sections,

1516
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 1: you know, from top to bottom basically made a horse

1517
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 1: shoe up the mountain and back down as one does

1518
01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 1: picture you were hunting. So we're sitting there in our

1519
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: tent after they have their meeting and they say we're

1520
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 1: gonna go have it. We're gonna go confer and then

1521
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:09,679
Speaker 1: we'll come visit with you. That was the initial conversation

1522
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 1: that we had. We never talked to the deputies. They

1523
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 1: never came and spoke one word to us. Do you

1524
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,839
Speaker 1: guys still have meat on the mountain from yes, yes,

1525
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 1: because as as at this point, we only had the

1526
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: one bull down, correct, and you pack some of it out,

1527
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,800
Speaker 1: but not the rest. We hung it all. It was

1528
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: we we hung that whole bull. Yeah, we didn't bring

1529
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:34,240
Speaker 1: out because we had our all of our baby and

1530
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 1: all of our everyone. He was skinned Cordon and hunter Tree.

1531
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 1: Game Warden walks back into our tent and says, okay,

1532
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 1: we've had a meeting. Um, he says, guys, it's public land,

1533
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 1: it's your land. Go hunt again. Yeah, this is a

1534
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: different game Warden. They switched game Wardens from two one

1535
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 1: and then and he comes to the same thing losing. Yeah,

1536
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:05,360
Speaker 1: he just the deputies. Deputies never came and talk to us.

1537
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,960
Speaker 1: But if you watch that video there pointing there they're

1538
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:10,600
Speaker 1: crossed pointing to fingers at each other. Uh, you know

1539
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 1: it's my instruction that you handle this. No, it's it's

1540
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 1: our instructor you handle this. So with the ranch manager

1541
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 1: right there right, you know, to do something right. But

1542
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:23,240
Speaker 1: at the time, we didn't know any of this, you know,

1543
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:25,439
Speaker 1: we're just sitting in our you know, because the body came,

1544
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 1: which is which is public all later and got to

1545
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:32,000
Speaker 1: be a part of this meeting with the CEO and

1546
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 1: the correct and he's saying do something, to do something

1547
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 1: correct because somebody's behind him being like, you better do something.

1548
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:40,639
Speaker 1: That's your job correct. And then and then he wants

1549
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 1: to he wants to play like he's safety ranger because

1550
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: you know, it's my concern that these we got hunters

1551
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:50,320
Speaker 1: coming in tomorrow, they're gonna shoot anything they see. You know,

1552
01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:56,280
Speaker 1: we wanted over these guys right right, kind of paints

1553
01:30:56,360 --> 01:31:00,720
Speaker 1: North Carolina hunters in a bad, bad light, and North

1554
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 1: Carolina they come out here to win and shoot anything

1555
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 1: they see. So the gist of it was though, because

1556
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: we had had a conversation with the law enforcement the

1557
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: year before, you know, we were really trying to get

1558
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 1: it clear and down to not have a conversation when

1559
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 1: you're out there trying so we could hunt, because that's

1560
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 1: really all we care about. And so I questioned the

1561
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:29,679
Speaker 1: game ward and I said, did you tell the ranch

1562
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 1: this I wanted to question, And he says yes. I

1563
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 1: told him it's public land. You guys are going right

1564
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: back in there. And that's when he asked us, the

1565
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 1: ranch wants to know where you're going to be, really

1566
01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 1: and for safety, for safety, which you could say, it's

1567
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:55,120
Speaker 1: really none of their business, and that's pretty much what

1568
01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:57,360
Speaker 1: I said. I said, we're gonna be on all the

1569
01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: public sections on the mountain south of where we were,

1570
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:04,439
Speaker 1: and I said we will work our way south and

1571
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 1: west in the morning, which is a lot of information

1572
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:11,679
Speaker 1: more than I wanted to give, you know, but that's

1573
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:14,759
Speaker 1: what I did, and that's what we've done. Next morning

1574
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:18,639
Speaker 1: we get up and I can't remember if that next morning,

1575
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 1: I believe we had those same two trucks sitting on

1576
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:26,679
Speaker 1: the county road watching us still the next morning, after

1577
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 1: they were told by the game warden that we were

1578
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 1: public land hunters going and hunting public land, to leave

1579
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 1: us alone. And so we go up the mountain, we

1580
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:41,040
Speaker 1: spot mule deer. Zach our hunting buddy has a mule

1581
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:45,200
Speaker 1: deer tag. A side by side comes driving up there

1582
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 1: on private land. But they come driving up within a

1583
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 1: couple hundred feet of us on the public They are no.

1584
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:57,679
Speaker 1: They stayed on. You know, we're following a line east

1585
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:02,240
Speaker 1: and west. Um, we're watching the mule deer. They pull up,

1586
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 1: let's say, beside us a couple feet and just shut

1587
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:09,360
Speaker 1: the side beside off and just stand there and watch us. Um.

1588
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 1: We're wearing orange, you know, we're not trying to wear

1589
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 1: on a wide open hillside behind a big rock. Hard

1590
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:17,240
Speaker 1: to find, you not hard to find at all. Um.

1591
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 1: We don't know if they've even seen the deer, you know.

1592
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 1: But eventually they started the machine and took off. We

1593
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:28,639
Speaker 1: go on up over the deer, go over the lip.

1594
01:33:29,400 --> 01:33:32,720
Speaker 1: We presume we end up zach Kills. You know that

1595
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,599
Speaker 1: mule deer. We haul it back to camp that day.

1596
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:41,760
Speaker 1: So we get back to camp mid afternoon, early afternoon.

1597
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 1: Not time to go back up the mountain again. So

1598
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:50,480
Speaker 1: we stay at our truck camp that day. Um. They

1599
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: next morning, I don't believe anything happened. The next morning,

1600
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:59,040
Speaker 1: nobody's there watching us and we go back up the

1601
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 1: mountain again, get in on some elk. I killed a

1602
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:08,080
Speaker 1: bull that morning. Um, we packed your elk, hung my elk.

1603
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:15,720
Speaker 1: Long day, huge day because we crossed multiple canyons. We

1604
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:18,439
Speaker 1: were tuckered out when we got back that night. When

1605
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: you're doing it right, you don't take the yeah, the

1606
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 1: ridge road. Um, yeah, you guys, because you guys are

1607
01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:28,680
Speaker 1: prevented from taking a straight line of travel because you

1608
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 1: got to adhere to the public section. And we laugh

1609
01:34:31,320 --> 01:34:33,680
Speaker 1: about we have pictures of all those corners. Every time

1610
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:35,240
Speaker 1: we come to New corn we take a picture of it,

1611
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:38,600
Speaker 1: just proved we've been there. Because I bet you we

1612
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:41,360
Speaker 1: laughed about this. There's nobody been in a lot of

1613
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:43,519
Speaker 1: in the corners since the surveyor put that stake there,

1614
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:48,320
Speaker 1: because I mean they are in some hellish, hellish places,

1615
01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 1: wild wild the places you find them. Yeah, And we

1616
01:34:51,439 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 1: brought full elk out on our backs across those corners.

1617
01:34:55,880 --> 01:35:00,200
Speaker 1: So pack your elk out, have and part of line,

1618
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:05,680
Speaker 1: I believe, yeah, and come back down the mountain. We

1619
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:09,040
Speaker 1: rest the next day. We don't do nothing, and we

1620
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 1: have ranch vehicles stake us out and basically watch us

1621
01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:17,160
Speaker 1: in our camp all day. The hell are these people

1622
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:24,000
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing. Ranch's killing me this whole time? Right,

1623
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: You think of the enormity of the property, and I

1624
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:30,760
Speaker 1: just can't help but wonder what the hell else is

1625
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 1: going on? God animal wise, like the elk and deer

1626
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:40,120
Speaker 1: and antelope playing on the other you know, forty two

1627
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:49,040
Speaker 1: sections of landed, right, So where are we at. They're

1628
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 1: surveying camp they're watching us camping, they're counting your cards. Yeah,

1629
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:56,640
Speaker 1: we're not doing anything but laying around being lazy, recouping

1630
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:01,200
Speaker 1: um the ext What do we have? We have a

1631
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:03,800
Speaker 1: partial elk to go pack out right, the rest of

1632
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,760
Speaker 1: the remaining euro olk. Yeah, so we're going back up

1633
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:12,080
Speaker 1: the mountain. These guys one truck that believe that morning, right,

1634
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:14,880
Speaker 1: we could back up a little bit. We did have

1635
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:20,880
Speaker 1: a confrontation with them, if you want to tell well,

1636
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 1: it was that it was that day, right, so we

1637
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:25,000
Speaker 1: we couldn't go to the bathroom. We got We got

1638
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: a truck on one end watching us, and a guy

1639
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:29,680
Speaker 1: right above our tent watching us. You can't even go

1640
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 1: and relieve yourself, Yeah, without exposing yourself. He got his

1641
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: penis out and waving it around. I was staring at

1642
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:46,000
Speaker 1: him through my ten by fifties. So we head to

1643
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 1: the local convenience store to to let our buddy John

1644
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:52,880
Speaker 1: use the restroom and get a little ice cream and

1645
01:36:52,880 --> 01:36:56,680
Speaker 1: and whatnot. Um, but the white truck that's watching us

1646
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 1: as we drive away. He starts driving away, but we're

1647
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:05,639
Speaker 1: we're gonna pass each other. Brad stops him pretty pretty.

1648
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 1: Brentley just said, ask him, are you watching us? Guys like, no,

1649
01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:13,679
Speaker 1: I'm watching. Well, what are you doing? I'm scouting? Brad's

1650
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 1: a little clear on this. Uh. I asked him if

1651
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 1: he had permission, you know, is if you're scouting, you

1652
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:24,479
Speaker 1: must have permission. Hunt. Do you have permission? He says no,

1653
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 1: and said what are you scouting for? He's like, well, well,

1654
01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:30,800
Speaker 1: first he said he was scouting for the next week,

1655
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 1: and I said, do you have permission? He says no.

1656
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:38,799
Speaker 1: I said what are you scouting for? He says, well,

1657
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 1: across the road is a public cow area and um,

1658
01:37:43,560 --> 01:37:48,400
Speaker 1: I said, well that season is not till December in January,

1659
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:50,760
Speaker 1: and he's like, we'll have a good day and took off.

1660
01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:54,960
Speaker 1: And so that was kind of He's on the radio

1661
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:58,640
Speaker 1: going now if they ask you this, right, but you

1662
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:00,599
Speaker 1: can tell that they had a little bit story. Hey,

1663
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,280
Speaker 1: if they talk to you, just say you're scouting. You know,

1664
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:07,800
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be just making your stay miserable. Yeah, exactly.

1665
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:11,639
Speaker 1: They're just pestering us, is what they're doing. And so

1666
01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 1: that was that. The next morning, we still have this

1667
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 1: elp to get out, but we're feeling good. We're heading

1668
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:21,840
Speaker 1: up the mountain. I gotta ask you a question. I'll

1669
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:23,760
Speaker 1: forget later, but I should. I should ask it later,

1670
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:26,960
Speaker 1: but i'll forget. Have you guys thought about doing anything

1671
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:30,840
Speaker 1: civil against the people who are ruining your time and

1672
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:36,839
Speaker 1: obstructing your ability to hunt like a hunter? Harassment ahead? Alright?

1673
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:39,599
Speaker 1: We we wrote statements, but that's not up to us

1674
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:41,760
Speaker 1: to whether charges are brought us. But but I mean,

1675
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 1: are you will like there? Have you considered taking legal

1676
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:51,800
Speaker 1: action against someone who's intimidating you know, we had a

1677
01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 1: discussion civilly whether to do something civil. I don't know

1678
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: that it's worth it, simply because the way we hunt,

1679
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:02,360
Speaker 1: we don't spend that much money. I mean, that's the

1680
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:04,720
Speaker 1: honest to God's truth. We don't have guides, you know,

1681
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:08,360
Speaker 1: we don't have big expenses. We and so I believe

1682
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 1: the Wyoming law tells you what you can recoup, which

1683
01:39:12,439 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 1: is your tag Um, if someone's intimidating you, does it

1684
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 1: have to be that you suffered financially. There's not like

1685
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:25,519
Speaker 1: a thing like just general intimidation. So there is a

1686
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:28,800
Speaker 1: law of hunter harassment. That doesn't need to be that

1687
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:31,760
Speaker 1: you lost money. Correct, But to do it civilly, for

1688
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 1: us to push something, we would have to do it

1689
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:38,360
Speaker 1: in a civil manner. Otherwise it's a criminal thing. And

1690
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 1: so what we've done, like you're saying, the criminal thing

1691
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 1: isn't up to you. Correct. The criminal thing would be

1692
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 1: someone would determine, a prosecutor in that county would determine,

1693
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to go after the people who are harassing

1694
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:52,720
Speaker 1: these individuals criminally exactly, and so that's up to them.

1695
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:56,760
Speaker 1: We we wrote our statements all individually of our experience

1696
01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:00,600
Speaker 1: of being harassed by this ranch anywhere one. Whether that

1697
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:04,920
Speaker 1: prosecutor is going to pursue that, no, what's your what's

1698
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:09,880
Speaker 1: your gut instinct? No, we turned it in. Um, we

1699
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:13,040
Speaker 1: turned it into the game warden. Game Warden told me

1700
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:16,639
Speaker 1: that he turned it into the prosecutor. Prosecutor told game

1701
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 1: Warden that we'll wait and see how the criminal thing

1702
01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:25,400
Speaker 1: pans out, Well, the criminal thing is panned out, you know,

1703
01:40:25,640 --> 01:40:30,080
Speaker 1: not guilty. But we haven't heard anymore on the civil

1704
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:34,760
Speaker 1: on the harassment issue. That's really interesting. Man, if he

1705
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 1: can if that and I don't know him from anybody,

1706
01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:43,400
Speaker 1: but it's interesting if that prosecutor can just decide that

1707
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:46,360
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to do anything about hunter harassment in

1708
01:40:46,479 --> 01:40:52,519
Speaker 1: his county. It's a but I think they have that

1709
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:57,840
Speaker 1: soul power. That's interesting. Are you cool with hunter harassment

1710
01:40:57,880 --> 01:41:00,080
Speaker 1: in your county or are you not cool with it?

1711
01:41:00,439 --> 01:41:02,960
Speaker 1: Maybe it comes down to what that harassment is, Like

1712
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:09,200
Speaker 1: it's impeding there. It's a fair documentation, but is it

1713
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:11,760
Speaker 1: impeding their ability to hunt? I mean, who knows how

1714
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:13,760
Speaker 1: they define it. It gets a little better, it gets

1715
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,679
Speaker 1: a little better. Well just at this point, right, like

1716
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:22,200
Speaker 1: just that is more than a lot of people would

1717
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,000
Speaker 1: stand like sure, you know, because just like you said,

1718
01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:28,559
Speaker 1: like what you guys want to do is hunt. Dealing

1719
01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 1: with people in these confrontational manners is not hunting, right,

1720
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,280
Speaker 1: That's not like Okay, when I go out to hunt,

1721
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:38,160
Speaker 1: I know there's going to be this big confrontation and

1722
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:42,160
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna go do go have a nice walk

1723
01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:45,799
Speaker 1: alone and next year I need to bring my ladder

1724
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:50,759
Speaker 1: and my little outhouse shelter. I could pee in private,

1725
01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:56,960
Speaker 1: get a lawyer on retainer. Yeah, okay, not exactly the goal. No,

1726
01:41:57,280 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, so we're going up the mountain to reach

1727
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:03,360
Speaker 1: you the last of this elk, and we knew we

1728
01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:05,559
Speaker 1: were being watched from the same guy in the same truck.

1729
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:09,360
Speaker 1: And you go straight up a mountain and you peek

1730
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:12,400
Speaker 1: and you hit a road. It's on the BLM that

1731
01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:14,720
Speaker 1: goes across the middle that they used this road a lot.

1732
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:17,680
Speaker 1: It's a ranch road, and we see the ball of

1733
01:42:17,800 --> 01:42:21,679
Speaker 1: dust coming, you know, from the ranch. Manager comes flying

1734
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:25,720
Speaker 1: across the ranch and he drives right up to us

1735
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:29,960
Speaker 1: and goes, what the fuck m But he just had

1736
01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 1: enough at this point. That's the first words out of

1737
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:37,719
Speaker 1: his mouth. You know, what are you guys doing here? Um?

1738
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:42,160
Speaker 1: And I simply tell him we were told we could

1739
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 1: be here, you know, three days ago the game warden

1740
01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:48,240
Speaker 1: told us it was public land. He told you the

1741
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:51,400
Speaker 1: same thing, it's publicly and we're going to hunt. We

1742
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:54,400
Speaker 1: got a bull we're gonna go get. We're standing in

1743
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 1: the middle of a BLM section. Because he actually he

1744
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:01,960
Speaker 1: ordered us back to camp get back to camp. The landowner,

1745
01:43:02,240 --> 01:43:06,559
Speaker 1: the landowner manager, the ranch managed, the representative of and

1746
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:09,240
Speaker 1: you were like, you were you guys were on public land.

1747
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:15,320
Speaker 1: He was on, yeah, we're in the middle of you know.

1748
01:43:16,360 --> 01:43:20,040
Speaker 1: And he's like, you get back to your camp and no,

1749
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:24,760
Speaker 1: you know or what right? He just said no? And

1750
01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:26,599
Speaker 1: I said, where you got a note to go get

1751
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm done talking to you. We're going. And so we did.

1752
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:36,479
Speaker 1: And so this this road, you know, kind of makes

1753
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:39,800
Speaker 1: a makes a big bend that goes I measured it's

1754
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:43,439
Speaker 1: like seven hundred yards, I believe. And he followed. He

1755
01:43:43,439 --> 01:43:49,120
Speaker 1: turns around and follows us within twenty yards of us

1756
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:51,880
Speaker 1: in his truck, creeping, creeping down the road and walking

1757
01:43:51,920 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: in f um. So we cut a corner. Good way

1758
01:43:57,400 --> 01:43:58,880
Speaker 1: to get you guys out of there. Would be gonna

1759
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:00,719
Speaker 1: pick up that elk and help you back to camp.

1760
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:04,439
Speaker 1: You would, wouldn't that be a neighborly thing and you'd

1761
01:44:04,439 --> 01:44:08,719
Speaker 1: be out of there gone, Yeah, right, that's your last tag.

1762
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:11,519
Speaker 1: Well see you next year. We had asked him to

1763
01:44:11,560 --> 01:44:15,600
Speaker 1: do that the year prior, and he kindly declined. I

1764
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:17,320
Speaker 1: did ask him a year before, Hey, you want to

1765
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:18,800
Speaker 1: help us all this out? And He's like, no, I

1766
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:23,920
Speaker 1: can't do that. So finally we have enough, right, and

1767
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:29,000
Speaker 1: so we stopped. I waved him forward, you know, and go, dude,

1768
01:44:29,240 --> 01:44:32,400
Speaker 1: you're harassing us. You know, you can't follow us in

1769
01:44:32,439 --> 01:44:35,479
Speaker 1: your truck across the middle of public land. We're trying

1770
01:44:35,479 --> 01:44:40,519
Speaker 1: to hunt. Get out of here, leave us alone. Um,

1771
01:44:40,600 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 1: And he's go ahead, Phil, you tell this part of

1772
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:49,599
Speaker 1: it better than I do. Oh gosh, you questioned him. Yeah,

1773
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:53,800
Speaker 1: I just he said. He he said, well, I'm hunting. Well,

1774
01:44:53,800 --> 01:44:57,000
Speaker 1: where's your orange? He kind of looks behind us, you know,

1775
01:44:57,120 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 1: does a head whip, you know, and uh, Zack says, uh,

1776
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 1: it's not legal to hunt from your truck either, is it?

1777
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:09,000
Speaker 1: And he can say he says, I can do whatever

1778
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 1: the I I want? Right, is exactly what he said. Really,

1779
01:45:14,720 --> 01:45:18,479
Speaker 1: do you guys we're reading film any of this stuff

1780
01:45:18,479 --> 01:45:21,519
Speaker 1: with your phones or anything? No, no, no, it was

1781
01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:27,479
Speaker 1: you don't think of that crap. And you're just a

1782
01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:29,640
Speaker 1: little bit you're just wanting to get You don't know

1783
01:45:29,680 --> 01:45:32,840
Speaker 1: what's legal either, you know, probably do that stuff. But

1784
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:37,599
Speaker 1: we actually read him the attorney general's opinion. We did, right.

1785
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:42,080
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. John did. Yeah, And he had

1786
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 1: never seen that before, or he acted like he had

1787
01:45:44,360 --> 01:45:46,080
Speaker 1: never seen that before, and he just did a lot

1788
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:49,400
Speaker 1: of head nodding and okay, yeah, but I can do

1789
01:45:49,439 --> 01:45:55,760
Speaker 1: whatever the right. Yeah. So after that confrontation, we take

1790
01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:57,639
Speaker 1: off again. I don't know, did we get a half

1791
01:45:57,720 --> 01:46:04,680
Speaker 1: mile maybe phone rings it's the warden. Yeah, he says, Hey,

1792
01:46:04,200 --> 01:46:06,320
Speaker 1: I hate to do this, but I gotta ask you

1793
01:46:06,320 --> 01:46:09,640
Speaker 1: guys to get back to camp. He's the phones are

1794
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:13,640
Speaker 1: blowing up all over the place, press quterer's offices. You know,

1795
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:17,280
Speaker 1: there'll be a deputy. Uh, go to your camp till

1796
01:46:17,320 --> 01:46:21,120
Speaker 1: you till you hear from me. But meat on the mountain,

1797
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:25,040
Speaker 1: we should trump everything. And he knows this. The game

1798
01:46:25,080 --> 01:46:28,920
Speaker 1: wardened us and he was super nice to us, very professional,

1799
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:35,600
Speaker 1: pleasant through everything, everything kind of we had with him. Um,

1800
01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:37,240
Speaker 1: so we do we turn around and go back to

1801
01:46:37,280 --> 01:46:41,000
Speaker 1: our camp. It wasn't too long. A deputy shows up,

1802
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, and he's getting super nice and it's kind

1803
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 1: of lighthearted about it and says, hey, I got called

1804
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:51,840
Speaker 1: on this trespassing thing on this corner deal. But you

1805
01:46:51,920 --> 01:46:56,160
Speaker 1: guys are just corner crossing, right, And we're like, yeah,

1806
01:46:56,280 --> 01:46:58,880
Speaker 1: we're those guys. He's like, that's what I thought when

1807
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:00,840
Speaker 1: I got the call, I thought it was the same guys.

1808
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:02,920
Speaker 1: We it was you guys you know that we've got

1809
01:47:02,920 --> 01:47:05,680
Speaker 1: called on before and you're just corner crossing. So he's like,

1810
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:10,120
Speaker 1: go hunt again again. They wanted to go back down

1811
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:13,200
Speaker 1: to your camp. His exact words is go hunt. And

1812
01:47:13,240 --> 01:47:16,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, game Warden told us to come hang

1813
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:19,280
Speaker 1: out here, So we're gonna hang out here, you know,

1814
01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 1: because that's what he's like, Yeah, that's probably smart. You know,

1815
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:24,600
Speaker 1: that's what the game warn't asked you to do. So

1816
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:29,679
Speaker 1: that's what we've done until that evening. Um another deputy show.

1817
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:33,639
Speaker 1: The deputy shows up and says, he instructed to ask

1818
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:38,040
Speaker 1: you guys citations. But he instructed who by his boss?

1819
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 1: His boss who take that for? Whoever you want to

1820
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:45,240
Speaker 1: take that for. Whether that's the sheriff, for the prosecutor,

1821
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:49,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, but he was ordered to come give us.

1822
01:47:49,960 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 1: In the background, someone's working political lines here, a lot

1823
01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:57,599
Speaker 1: of phone calls the governor. No one would assume you know,

1824
01:47:57,680 --> 01:47:59,479
Speaker 1: we know what we know, you know the rest of it.

1825
01:47:59,520 --> 01:48:04,479
Speaker 1: We're assumed, man, you know. So I questioned him, you know,

1826
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:07,759
Speaker 1: how did we trespass? And he wouldn't answer any questions.

1827
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:11,559
Speaker 1: He just said, you gotta tell the judge, asked the judge,

1828
01:48:11,720 --> 01:48:15,439
Speaker 1: and in the end it was that you're you went

1829
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:18,920
Speaker 1: through the air of that person's land. In the end,

1830
01:48:19,920 --> 01:48:24,519
Speaker 1: that's apparently with the argument, because no one that that's

1831
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:26,760
Speaker 1: the thing I think it is. It's so obvious I

1832
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:28,679
Speaker 1: hesitate to bring it up. But what we're talking about

1833
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:31,400
Speaker 1: here is it's like it's funny because we're talking about

1834
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:36,679
Speaker 1: h it's about one thing, but we're talking about another thing.

1835
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:40,680
Speaker 1: What it's about is that you have a bunch of

1836
01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:45,719
Speaker 1: private land to yourself because it's land locked. Yeah, I'm sorry,

1837
01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 1: you have a bunch of public land that only you

1838
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 1: can hunt. That's what this is about. You want to

1839
01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:52,000
Speaker 1: keep it that way because it's sweet. But what you

1840
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:54,800
Speaker 1: got to talk about instead is this issue of that

1841
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 1: your body is crossing when you do that that one step,

1842
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:03,240
Speaker 1: you're violating their airspace. And they're acting like they're they're

1843
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 1: sort of saying like, no I care about the airspace.

1844
01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:08,120
Speaker 1: They never go like I'm trying to preserve private hunting. Yeah,

1845
01:49:08,120 --> 01:49:10,720
Speaker 1: that's just smoke, you know. It's it's like one of

1846
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:12,439
Speaker 1: those weird things where but then you get to go

1847
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:16,479
Speaker 1: to court, and in court they can't say, well, I'm

1848
01:49:16,479 --> 01:49:18,320
Speaker 1: trying to have this kind of sweet deal that I

1849
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:20,600
Speaker 1: don't really pay for, but it's sweet, so I just

1850
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:22,919
Speaker 1: want to keep it that way. They gotta like focusing

1851
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:26,160
Speaker 1: on his airspace on airspace saying well, and all of

1852
01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:29,759
Speaker 1: our encounters with law enforcement were always on our side,

1853
01:49:30,680 --> 01:49:33,800
Speaker 1: you know, but you could tell that they were being

1854
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:37,559
Speaker 1: pushed from other directions. What's confusing to me is like

1855
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:40,840
Speaker 1: I've always known that you're not supposed to do that,

1856
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 1: at least by rule, but it doesn't sound like the

1857
01:49:43,200 --> 01:49:46,960
Speaker 1: conservation officers approached at that with state by state keep

1858
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:49,400
Speaker 1: in mind, right so, and even within the state of

1859
01:49:49,439 --> 01:49:52,880
Speaker 1: Montana that on paper has a stricter view of what

1860
01:49:53,000 --> 01:49:58,480
Speaker 1: corner crossing is, there are counties that will not prosecute

1861
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:01,680
Speaker 1: corner crossing like it is too much of a quagmire,

1862
01:50:02,160 --> 01:50:06,680
Speaker 1: it's not defined well enough. Yeah, the time of the

1863
01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:09,160
Speaker 1: court is too valuable to have to wade through this,

1864
01:50:09,960 --> 01:50:11,880
Speaker 1: and they want to punt it to a higher court,

1865
01:50:12,360 --> 01:50:17,120
Speaker 1: which is interesting England enough. One way that can be

1866
01:50:17,160 --> 01:50:19,600
Speaker 1: seen how this case is is going here with the

1867
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:24,439
Speaker 1: civil suit has been punted up or grabbed however, you

1868
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:30,719
Speaker 1: want to see it by the federal magistrate. So when

1869
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:33,760
Speaker 1: when agents are going through the academy, this isn't an

1870
01:50:33,760 --> 01:50:38,559
Speaker 1: issue that they're being schooled on. I'm sure that, like

1871
01:50:38,760 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 1: do they look like they have a bunch of drugs

1872
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:43,800
Speaker 1: in their truck? If so, this corner crossing thing would

1873
01:50:43,800 --> 01:50:46,439
Speaker 1: probably be something you'd want to pay attention to. I

1874
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:49,280
Speaker 1: think game wardens are like, this is a this is

1875
01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:53,280
Speaker 1: not our we don't we don't oversee this. This is

1876
01:50:53,320 --> 01:50:57,120
Speaker 1: for the county sheriff. Their trespassed to hunt man. I

1877
01:50:57,160 --> 01:51:00,519
Speaker 1: missed out on some good hunting over the years. Well,

1878
01:51:00,920 --> 01:51:03,799
Speaker 1: the the way we understand it, the game and phishes

1879
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:06,720
Speaker 1: right on their website. You know, Attorney general's opinion is

1880
01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:10,360
Speaker 1: it's not illegal. So when you tell me you just

1881
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:12,320
Speaker 1: always knew you weren't supposed to do that. How did

1882
01:51:12,320 --> 01:51:15,920
Speaker 1: you know that? What did you read that said I can't.

1883
01:51:16,080 --> 01:51:19,640
Speaker 1: That's a great question. In this state, they they recommend

1884
01:51:19,680 --> 01:51:22,560
Speaker 1: against it. Yeah, that's I think. Even on wyomings it

1885
01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:26,639
Speaker 1: says we recommend you don't, but it's not codified as illegal.

1886
01:51:26,680 --> 01:51:30,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't say they don't recommend. Most of my Western

1887
01:51:30,439 --> 01:51:33,160
Speaker 1: hunting was in the Eastern part of Montana and out there.

1888
01:51:33,720 --> 01:51:36,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you just know not to because it's recommended

1889
01:51:36,640 --> 01:51:40,200
Speaker 1: against it. So I had a conversation with a BLM

1890
01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:45,800
Speaker 1: law enforcement officer about an area that we were going

1891
01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:49,040
Speaker 1: to take a helicopter into, and he flat out said,

1892
01:51:49,080 --> 01:51:51,880
Speaker 1: well why would you do that? Guys walk into that

1893
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:54,840
Speaker 1: all the time from this road. Well that's a good point.

1894
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:57,200
Speaker 1: When you asked where I learned it from. Randy Newburgh

1895
01:51:57,200 --> 01:51:59,360
Speaker 1: did that with that helicopter and like blew that big

1896
01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:02,000
Speaker 1: issue up. So that was one place that I had

1897
01:52:02,040 --> 01:52:06,800
Speaker 1: heard that I suppose. Yeah, my opinion, just being an

1898
01:52:06,840 --> 01:52:10,520
Speaker 1: out of state or and trying to read some information

1899
01:52:10,600 --> 01:52:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, on this is the powers that be, the

1900
01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:17,519
Speaker 1: people that don't want you to corn across, have done

1901
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:21,839
Speaker 1: a great job of feeding propaganda bullshit to the public,

1902
01:52:23,240 --> 01:52:26,479
Speaker 1: you know. So and what got me pointed down that

1903
01:52:26,680 --> 01:52:31,479
Speaker 1: is I found the real estate ad for this ranch

1904
01:52:31,560 --> 01:52:35,120
Speaker 1: when it went when it went up for sale back

1905
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:37,840
Speaker 1: in the earlier mid two thousand's, and I read it

1906
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:41,000
Speaker 1: and it said that the public this is a real

1907
01:52:41,080 --> 01:52:45,759
Speaker 1: estate add says that the public ground around this ranch

1908
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:51,080
Speaker 1: has been litigated through it. It may have, I can't remember.

1909
01:52:51,080 --> 01:52:56,439
Speaker 1: It said a district court or a a court system,

1910
01:52:56,479 --> 01:52:59,479
Speaker 1: and that it was deemed that the public couldn't go there.

1911
01:53:01,000 --> 01:53:03,320
Speaker 1: So I didn't believe it. That's in the listing, that

1912
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:06,000
Speaker 1: was in the real estate listing. I think I even

1913
01:53:06,040 --> 01:53:08,840
Speaker 1: may have that printed off somewhere. Wow, that's great, man.

1914
01:53:09,320 --> 01:53:11,360
Speaker 1: And so I I tried to look up these court

1915
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:14,400
Speaker 1: cases has and found out there was no such court

1916
01:53:14,439 --> 01:53:19,880
Speaker 1: cases to tell me that a realtorn. So, I mean,

1917
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:22,040
Speaker 1: here's here's just just to show our side of the

1918
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:24,479
Speaker 1: fence here in Montana. And I started collecting a file

1919
01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:28,120
Speaker 1: on these because I had It's some one of those

1920
01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:30,000
Speaker 1: things that when I'm having a bad day, I like

1921
01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:32,959
Speaker 1: to make it even worse by fuming about this horseship

1922
01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:36,479
Speaker 1: as you called it, cute almost new two bedroom, one

1923
01:53:36,479 --> 01:53:38,639
Speaker 1: bath cabin on six plus acres with the two car

1924
01:53:38,680 --> 01:53:42,679
Speaker 1: garage being sold, fully furnished with all appliances, blah blah blah,

1925
01:53:43,200 --> 01:53:45,639
Speaker 1: ready to be a rental full time or part time residents.

1926
01:53:45,720 --> 01:53:49,920
Speaker 1: The subdivision boast private trout stock ponds and access to

1927
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:54,080
Speaker 1: public land behind a locked gate. Uh So this is

1928
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:56,320
Speaker 1: comes right back full circle to our h O A,

1929
01:53:56,479 --> 01:53:59,080
Speaker 1: our evil h O, A discussion that we started this

1930
01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:01,719
Speaker 1: thing with, And then it goes on to talk about

1931
01:54:03,360 --> 01:54:06,960
Speaker 1: just a short drive off the county maintained, which means

1932
01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:11,120
Speaker 1: everybody county taxes you're playing paying to maintain the road, uh,

1933
01:54:11,120 --> 01:54:15,920
Speaker 1: and school bus route taxes around the land only it's

1934
01:54:16,040 --> 01:54:21,720
Speaker 1: a commodity anyway, Sorry, just got a curiosity. Were you

1935
01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:26,160
Speaker 1: guys access in state or BLM? Both? All right? So

1936
01:54:26,200 --> 01:54:28,880
Speaker 1: there you are. He gives you your citation, and the

1937
01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:32,720
Speaker 1: citation carries with it. Can you do is it mandatory? Court?

1938
01:54:32,800 --> 01:54:37,120
Speaker 1: Could you just pay it with the whole thing? Right?

1939
01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:41,480
Speaker 1: Unless you set the date for November eight? That's right,

1940
01:54:41,920 --> 01:54:44,360
Speaker 1: good job, so you guys would already be out there hunting.

1941
01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:52,480
Speaker 1: That's perfect, a good deal. Uh, you get a lawyer. Well,

1942
01:54:54,040 --> 01:54:58,320
Speaker 1: so it's it's a seven fine if I remember right,

1943
01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:01,040
Speaker 1: we know we didn't do anything wrong. We're in a

1944
01:55:01,040 --> 01:55:03,360
Speaker 1: conundrumal what do we what do we do here? You know?

1945
01:55:03,400 --> 01:55:04,920
Speaker 1: How do you fight this? We all kind of wanted

1946
01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:08,440
Speaker 1: to fight it, um, but it's still it's seven fifty bucks.

1947
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:12,160
Speaker 1: We could just be done done with it and you

1948
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:15,560
Speaker 1: can go down and be like all right, right right,

1949
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:19,120
Speaker 1: and you went and paid it, then, were you just

1950
01:55:19,160 --> 01:55:21,360
Speaker 1: gonna come back next year? And pay it again. Well,

1951
01:55:21,400 --> 01:55:26,480
Speaker 1: we hadn't thought that through all, you know, but me

1952
01:55:27,560 --> 01:55:29,680
Speaker 1: you know that, Hey we just double the cost of

1953
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:32,400
Speaker 1: our ELK tag and pay the fine and go you

1954
01:55:32,440 --> 01:55:36,920
Speaker 1: know type thought. But that's as far as that went. Um.

1955
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:40,560
Speaker 1: But we've met some local guys and they're like, hey,

1956
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous. We know an organization I want to

1957
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:48,440
Speaker 1: try and hook you guys. Put you guys together. And

1958
01:55:48,520 --> 01:55:51,200
Speaker 1: so this b h a group, this back Country Hunters

1959
01:55:51,200 --> 01:55:58,800
Speaker 1: and Anglers Wyoming, Wyoming, the Wyoming chapter, Um, I can't remember.

1960
01:55:59,160 --> 01:56:02,080
Speaker 1: We get connected it and there they want to know

1961
01:56:02,120 --> 01:56:05,720
Speaker 1: our story. And so we write them you know what

1962
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:10,480
Speaker 1: happened a statement and send it to them, and they

1963
01:56:10,520 --> 01:56:13,720
Speaker 1: see it as an opportunity, as a legit. You know,

1964
01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:15,600
Speaker 1: you guys haven't done anything wrong. We want to back

1965
01:56:15,680 --> 01:56:19,800
Speaker 1: you on this. And so they set up the go

1966
01:56:19,960 --> 01:56:25,000
Speaker 1: fund me thing and get that ball rolling. Um. They

1967
01:56:25,040 --> 01:56:28,919
Speaker 1: find attorneys. You know, hey, I know this attorney. That attorney,

1968
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, contact these guys and so we just got

1969
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:37,800
Speaker 1: on the phone and got representation and it's snowballed. You know,

1970
01:56:37,800 --> 01:56:39,760
Speaker 1: it went to what it is now. They've done a

1971
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:45,080
Speaker 1: phenomenal job of getting that money going. It raised what

1972
01:56:45,240 --> 01:56:50,000
Speaker 1: thirty some thousand dollars fast fast ultimately, you know, right

1973
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:52,720
Speaker 1: around seventy and then it kind of flatlined a little bit.

1974
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:55,560
Speaker 1: And then Steve hears about it, you know, and throws

1975
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:59,760
Speaker 1: an Instagram thing out there. Me and Phils checking game

1976
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:02,400
Speaker 1: ameras or something out in the woods one day and

1977
01:57:02,480 --> 01:57:05,360
Speaker 1: my brother in law John text and says, have you

1978
01:57:05,360 --> 01:57:08,040
Speaker 1: looked at the go fund me? I'm like no, and

1979
01:57:08,080 --> 01:57:10,440
Speaker 1: He's like, look at it. And it was just it

1980
01:57:10,560 --> 01:57:13,960
Speaker 1: was clicking after you threw the Instagram message out there,

1981
01:57:14,360 --> 01:57:20,440
Speaker 1: and it like doubles in money overnight and here we are.

1982
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:24,240
Speaker 1: You know, the whole thing just grew. How long was that? So?

1983
01:57:24,520 --> 01:57:26,000
Speaker 1: How many of you guys had to show up for

1984
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:29,320
Speaker 1: the trial? Four of us? How many days was the trial?

1985
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:35,240
Speaker 1: Are you serious? Now? Who did three days for a misdemeanor?

1986
01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:39,240
Speaker 1: Did the actual landowners show up? No? Did the ranch manager?

1987
01:57:39,360 --> 01:57:42,880
Speaker 1: Was he was? Was he wilf? Was he wanting to

1988
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:46,040
Speaker 1: be there? Was he called to the stand? I assume

1989
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:48,959
Speaker 1: he was called. Actually he was called by the prosecutor.

1990
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:51,120
Speaker 1: He was prosecutor's witness. And this is this is like

1991
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:53,560
Speaker 1: there's a jury, this is a jury thing or not?

1992
01:57:53,560 --> 01:57:56,040
Speaker 1: Because it's a misdemean is not a jury it is

1993
01:57:56,080 --> 01:57:59,080
Speaker 1: a jury trial for him. I didn't know this because

1994
01:57:59,080 --> 01:58:01,520
Speaker 1: you had to plead you pled not guilty, which makes

1995
01:58:01,520 --> 01:58:04,480
Speaker 1: it a jury thing. Well you still didn't you have

1996
01:58:04,520 --> 01:58:07,280
Speaker 1: to request a jury trial. I believe the whole legal

1997
01:58:07,320 --> 01:58:10,040
Speaker 1: side of I didn't know this A misdemeanors only six jurors.

1998
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:13,480
Speaker 1: I don't know that either. Yeah, so learned that through

1999
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:17,520
Speaker 1: this less expensive Yeah, I guess um three days of

2000
01:58:17,720 --> 01:58:22,160
Speaker 1: three days of looking at different maps that were the

2001
01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:29,040
Speaker 1: same map just in a different color, you know, and legos.

2002
01:58:29,040 --> 01:58:31,800
Speaker 1: Did you guys have to outline like everywhere you went

2003
01:58:32,040 --> 01:58:36,600
Speaker 1: and things? No, Well we're defendants, you know, so they

2004
01:58:36,640 --> 01:58:38,840
Speaker 1: have to prove us guilty. Did you did you have

2005
01:58:38,920 --> 01:58:41,760
Speaker 1: the ladder? There? No, the ladder they come into play.

2006
01:58:41,880 --> 01:58:44,080
Speaker 1: There's pictures of the ladder. We weren't going to haul

2007
01:58:44,120 --> 01:58:48,200
Speaker 1: the ladder back. How are did the jury deliberate lunch?

2008
01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:52,360
Speaker 1: The lunch? Yeah, they ate lunch and was out and

2009
01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:57,600
Speaker 1: so they deliberated for an hour and a half which

2010
01:58:57,640 --> 01:59:01,880
Speaker 1: included lunch. Correct, and they come back and what not? Guilty?

2011
01:59:03,200 --> 01:59:06,480
Speaker 1: Is that easy? It's nervous. That's pretty nervous deal standing up,

2012
01:59:07,200 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, whether jury is gonna guilty. Would you have

2013
01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 1: had to pay court costs? I don't know, I wonder

2014
01:59:14,720 --> 01:59:18,040
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, yeah, I don't. I

2015
01:59:18,080 --> 01:59:23,720
Speaker 1: don't know how that guy played out suits or nothing. Now,

2016
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:26,040
Speaker 1: when we teased my my brother in law John, there's

2017
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:28,560
Speaker 1: what we're hunting, buddies. He's the nervous one, you know,

2018
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:32,000
Speaker 1: it's just scared to death somebody. What's gonna think he

2019
01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:35,120
Speaker 1: was a criminal, you know, because he touched air and

2020
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:37,560
Speaker 1: so we teased him about getting his own jump suit,

2021
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, don't pick up the soap type thing. Be

2022
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:48,040
Speaker 1: a good Christmas present. And there's there's stands right now. Um,

2023
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:50,000
Speaker 1: and I don't know to what degree. You can't really

2024
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 1: get into it. They're revisiting this through a civil suit.

2025
01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:59,360
Speaker 1: We have been sued civilly by the landowner. Do you

2026
01:59:59,360 --> 02:00:01,520
Speaker 1: know what can you disclose how much you're being sued for?

2027
02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:04,560
Speaker 1: There is no amount right because you have to prove

2028
02:00:05,080 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 1: the damage. I believe it reads. The amount is to

2029
02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:13,000
Speaker 1: be determined to buy the jury. Sure, so the jury

2030
02:00:13,360 --> 02:00:17,960
Speaker 1: would have the serious weight on their shoulders of determining

2031
02:00:18,600 --> 02:00:25,840
Speaker 1: how bruised the airspace is and what that bruising would

2032
02:00:25,840 --> 02:00:30,600
Speaker 1: amount to in a dollar figure of air that moves

2033
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:35,160
Speaker 1: what that surgery is gonna when you go to settle

2034
02:00:35,240 --> 02:00:38,440
Speaker 1: up with the air, it's different air, and it's different air. Yeah,

2035
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:40,360
Speaker 1: I read this thing one time that was saying that, um,

2036
02:00:42,320 --> 02:00:45,560
Speaker 1: you breathe. When you breathe, you're breathing in air molecules

2037
02:00:45,600 --> 02:00:50,520
Speaker 1: that had been breathed by Jesus. The air molecules are

2038
02:00:50,560 --> 02:00:52,360
Speaker 1: just like, how so who lord knows where those things

2039
02:00:52,360 --> 02:00:55,800
Speaker 1: are now? And what was the value he assigned him?

2040
02:00:55,840 --> 02:01:00,360
Speaker 1: You know, terous if you could ask him what do

2041
02:01:00,360 --> 02:01:03,480
Speaker 1: you think about this whole corner crossing thing that's going

2042
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:06,560
Speaker 1: back to It's not much, I imagine, going back to

2043
02:01:06,600 --> 02:01:08,400
Speaker 1: what Steve said, My favorite part of this is that

2044
02:01:08,440 --> 02:01:10,280
Speaker 1: they can't say the quiet part out loud, which is

2045
02:01:10,280 --> 02:01:15,080
Speaker 1: that we just want to protect our suite that's ours.

2046
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:16,960
Speaker 1: Are quotes, but so like when you're sitting in the

2047
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:20,480
Speaker 1: courtroom and there this the phrase touching air. I know

2048
02:01:20,560 --> 02:01:22,440
Speaker 1: that's not how they framed it in the courtroom, but

2049
02:01:22,480 --> 02:01:25,800
Speaker 1: just like, did it sound did their defense sound preposterous?

2050
02:01:25,840 --> 02:01:28,320
Speaker 1: Like that's exactly what it boiled down to. So he

2051
02:01:28,360 --> 02:01:31,000
Speaker 1: never returned to the drudge Judge was like it was

2052
02:01:31,040 --> 02:01:33,360
Speaker 1: a man or a woman. A woman judge okay, never

2053
02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:37,520
Speaker 1: turned to her and said, uh, your honor, let me

2054
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:41,720
Speaker 1: leavel with you. Um. I bought this because I thought

2055
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:43,920
Speaker 1: I could hunt all this public ground and no one

2056
02:01:43,920 --> 02:01:45,720
Speaker 1: else could. And this is kind of sucking that whole

2057
02:01:45,760 --> 02:01:54,520
Speaker 1: deal up. Well, he was never there, hired hand in there.

2058
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:57,160
Speaker 1: Did the lawyer, did the lawyer for the other side

2059
02:01:57,160 --> 02:01:58,880
Speaker 1: that they seem pretty committed? Or were they kind of

2060
02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:03,040
Speaker 1: I rolly the prosecutor, Yeah, they were very committed. He

2061
02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:07,480
Speaker 1: wanted to see you guys get in the fire under

2062
02:02:07,560 --> 02:02:11,120
Speaker 1: his ass I was a woman was a female actually,

2063
02:02:11,920 --> 02:02:17,000
Speaker 1: but I don't know. We never understood what why she

2064
02:02:17,080 --> 02:02:20,000
Speaker 1: had a horse in this race? Well, you know what

2065
02:02:20,040 --> 02:02:22,000
Speaker 1: was the judge's demeanor about the whole thing? Did she

2066
02:02:22,000 --> 02:02:24,160
Speaker 1: seemed to be there but time was being wasted? Or

2067
02:02:24,640 --> 02:02:28,200
Speaker 1: professional professional? You know. I was on a jury one

2068
02:02:28,240 --> 02:02:32,720
Speaker 1: time and we convicted a guy on It was a

2069
02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:40,000
Speaker 1: crack cocaine deal and we convicted and then the judge

2070
02:02:40,360 --> 02:02:42,720
Speaker 1: says that, Jerry, I want you to hang around for

2071
02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:45,280
Speaker 1: a minute, okay, And then all this stuff happens every

2072
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:48,280
Speaker 1: leaves and the judge says, I'm gonna tell you some

2073
02:02:48,440 --> 02:02:52,200
Speaker 1: things that if there's any amount of guilt that you

2074
02:02:52,280 --> 02:02:54,360
Speaker 1: might feel, I want to put that guilt at rest

2075
02:02:55,040 --> 02:02:59,600
Speaker 1: and tell you about some non submissible evidence which he

2076
02:02:59,680 --> 02:03:03,360
Speaker 1: then aid out all this ship that they couldn't tell

2077
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:06,720
Speaker 1: you about, and you're like, dude, why are they not

2078
02:03:06,840 --> 02:03:12,360
Speaker 1: have told us about that? Right? Like shooting people strangling people?

2079
02:03:13,600 --> 02:03:15,560
Speaker 1: It made you feel good about putting the difer the

2080
02:03:15,720 --> 02:03:17,160
Speaker 1: like they couldn't be because it was like he already

2081
02:03:17,200 --> 02:03:18,880
Speaker 1: had been in, you know what I mean, And then

2082
02:03:18,880 --> 02:03:21,360
Speaker 1: you get done today like damn, i's knowing that all along, Man,

2083
02:03:21,400 --> 02:03:24,360
Speaker 1: I would have been sitting there out what I would

2084
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:25,880
Speaker 1: have done? What what they try to get you to

2085
02:03:25,880 --> 02:03:28,320
Speaker 1: not do, which is getting to make them pay all

2086
02:03:28,320 --> 02:03:31,600
Speaker 1: over again for he done earlier. Right, And we used

2087
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:34,000
Speaker 1: to hope going through this whole process that people look

2088
02:03:34,040 --> 02:03:36,160
Speaker 1: at us and go, I think they're pretty decent guys

2089
02:03:36,160 --> 02:03:39,280
Speaker 1: that were just going hunting, you know, because we've read

2090
02:03:39,320 --> 02:03:42,080
Speaker 1: the stuff where people thought we were trying to get

2091
02:03:42,120 --> 02:03:47,440
Speaker 1: arrested on purpose, and that's insane. You know, when you

2092
02:03:47,520 --> 02:03:50,320
Speaker 1: guys were camped there over like both times, did you

2093
02:03:50,360 --> 02:03:52,760
Speaker 1: have any groups of hunters drive by and me like, m,

2094
02:03:52,880 --> 02:03:56,000
Speaker 1: what are they up to? There. We had a we

2095
02:03:56,040 --> 02:03:58,520
Speaker 1: had a couple of guys stop and say, hey, you know,

2096
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:02,800
Speaker 1: trying just trying to feel hunting situation. And so I

2097
02:04:02,880 --> 02:04:05,080
Speaker 1: used to fish a lot competitively and stuff. So I've

2098
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:08,480
Speaker 1: learned how to your competitive bass fisherman. Yeah, a little bit.

2099
02:04:08,600 --> 02:04:11,600
Speaker 1: So you learn how to have those conversations and and

2100
02:04:11,640 --> 02:04:14,800
Speaker 1: talking not without yeah, you know, so that's the same

2101
02:04:14,840 --> 02:04:20,640
Speaker 1: thing you're do in the hunting world. A few now, Steve,

2102
02:04:20,720 --> 02:04:23,080
Speaker 1: just out of curiosity, how did you jump to the

2103
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:26,600
Speaker 1: conclusion that he was competitive bass fisherman because he's from Missouri.

2104
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:29,560
Speaker 1: I didn't think he's a competitive trout fisherman. Well, no,

2105
02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:32,840
Speaker 1: they probably got some good trout fishing because like if

2106
02:04:32,840 --> 02:04:36,040
Speaker 1: you tallied up how many competitive fishermen are in the world,

2107
02:04:36,160 --> 02:04:41,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't be competitive bass fisherman. If I was talking to

2108
02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:44,320
Speaker 1: a Bahamian and he says a competitive fisherman, I would

2109
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:47,320
Speaker 1: think he's in like the tuna caw cutters being from

2110
02:04:47,320 --> 02:04:54,680
Speaker 1: the Bahamas and all good conclusion. So the do we

2111
02:04:54,720 --> 02:04:57,240
Speaker 1: want to talk about the unlawful enclosures I Act, which

2112
02:04:57,440 --> 02:05:00,840
Speaker 1: was I want to save that, okay, because that that's

2113
02:05:00,880 --> 02:05:04,280
Speaker 1: a super interesting where this is headed. But that's one

2114
02:05:04,280 --> 02:05:07,240
Speaker 1: of the things without without bringing you into without Oh

2115
02:05:07,320 --> 02:05:09,320
Speaker 1: you did hang your hat on it. We hung our

2116
02:05:09,400 --> 02:05:12,240
Speaker 1: hat on that Unlawful Enclosures Act. Well, so that held,

2117
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:15,400
Speaker 1: that came up in court, that came up in our

2118
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:19,120
Speaker 1: personal conversations of building a ladder and them trying to

2119
02:05:19,160 --> 02:05:22,480
Speaker 1: block us all that. Well, cal I haven't been keeping

2120
02:05:22,480 --> 02:05:25,480
Speaker 1: you up speed because it's it's brand speakay new, but

2121
02:05:25,560 --> 02:05:32,080
Speaker 1: I'm working lead on a guest that could get into

2122
02:05:32,080 --> 02:05:35,120
Speaker 1: the subject matter expert perfect awesome. So I was trying

2123
02:05:35,160 --> 02:05:37,120
Speaker 1: to just to milk this out more, you know, the

2124
02:05:38,120 --> 02:05:43,200
Speaker 1: um but sorry that it is relevant for this because

2125
02:05:43,200 --> 02:05:46,760
Speaker 1: that was the argument that allowed it to be kind

2126
02:05:46,760 --> 02:05:52,640
Speaker 1: of plucked into federal court, the civil civil trial, because

2127
02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:55,560
Speaker 1: so it is, it is emerging already like that conversation.

2128
02:05:55,560 --> 02:05:59,080
Speaker 1: I thought that was like a conversation that will come eventually. No,

2129
02:05:59,240 --> 02:06:03,320
Speaker 1: there is an art human made on behalf of all

2130
02:06:03,800 --> 02:06:10,080
Speaker 1: four of our corner crossers that said, um, this civil

2131
02:06:10,560 --> 02:06:15,840
Speaker 1: suit has no basis because of and I'm very very

2132
02:06:15,960 --> 02:06:23,040
Speaker 1: much simplifying and uh anyway, well, the reason I'm going

2133
02:06:23,080 --> 02:06:25,560
Speaker 1: easy on this is I have been I'm not trying

2134
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:27,680
Speaker 1: to be like cryptic. Well am I I don't know

2135
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:30,280
Speaker 1: enough about it. I've had I've had off the com

2136
02:06:30,760 --> 02:06:36,920
Speaker 1: I've had off the record conversations with individuals who have

2137
02:06:37,920 --> 02:06:44,520
Speaker 1: they've off the record explained issues around the enclosures thing

2138
02:06:46,160 --> 02:06:51,840
Speaker 1: um that I would like to get into in the

2139
02:06:51,880 --> 02:06:55,800
Speaker 1: future because it's very interesting, and do it in a

2140
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:57,960
Speaker 1: way that doesn't lead people in a lot of bad

2141
02:06:58,000 --> 02:07:03,160
Speaker 1: directions and assumptions. That and as and and and as

2142
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:11,400
Speaker 1: in the studio, Dave Wilms, who doesn't have a no

2143
02:07:11,560 --> 02:07:15,440
Speaker 1: horse in the race right just as a bystander pointed

2144
02:07:15,480 --> 02:07:20,280
Speaker 1: out that the Enclosures Act has been used around like

2145
02:07:20,760 --> 02:07:25,200
Speaker 1: commercial travel. I think if I remember correct, it's on

2146
02:07:25,240 --> 02:07:28,520
Speaker 1: public records. It is on this episode. Uh, around this show.

2147
02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:33,960
Speaker 1: It's been used around shipping, it's been used around trucking commerce,

2148
02:07:34,120 --> 02:07:39,520
Speaker 1: but it hasn't been It's never been applied to pedestrian traffic.

2149
02:07:40,800 --> 02:07:46,480
Speaker 1: And in his pondering um, his pondering is was in

2150
02:07:46,640 --> 02:07:49,600
Speaker 1: on the on the episode previous episode, his pondering was

2151
02:07:49,720 --> 02:07:53,800
Speaker 1: what would happen were one to take pedestrian traffic and

2152
02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:57,040
Speaker 1: look at it through the lens of the Enclosures act um,

2153
02:07:57,120 --> 02:07:59,760
Speaker 1: And to date that hadn't been done. And he could

2154
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:02,360
Speaker 1: and he I can't remember exactly, but he brought up

2155
02:08:02,880 --> 02:08:06,000
Speaker 1: ways in which it would be an interesting conversation and

2156
02:08:06,040 --> 02:08:08,480
Speaker 1: he could see this, and he could see that, but

2157
02:08:08,480 --> 02:08:13,720
Speaker 1: but it hasn't been applied to foot traffic. Interesting. Did

2158
02:08:13,800 --> 02:08:17,920
Speaker 1: I kind of roughly summarize that correctly? On on the

2159
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:23,120
Speaker 1: civil suit? Yeah, it's part of the argument, I believe. Um,

2160
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:28,520
Speaker 1: we haven't had great in depth conversations. We've had small conversations,

2161
02:08:28,960 --> 02:08:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, with attorneys, and we let those kind of

2162
02:08:31,920 --> 02:08:34,240
Speaker 1: the legal thing. I just sit here and keep thinking

2163
02:08:34,320 --> 02:08:37,080
Speaker 1: of as as an out of state hunter, and there's

2164
02:08:37,560 --> 02:08:41,360
Speaker 1: thousands of us that go west to go hunting. Why

2165
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:43,600
Speaker 1: can't it not be simple as what you can and cannot?

2166
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:46,960
Speaker 1: Do you know? Have you shouldn't have these conversations. Do

2167
02:08:47,000 --> 02:08:49,640
Speaker 1: you guys still have a little jingle in your legal

2168
02:08:49,680 --> 02:08:53,560
Speaker 1: defense fund? No? Really? Now it's short and I've got

2169
02:08:53,840 --> 02:08:55,720
Speaker 1: one more attorney bill I need to pay, So we're

2170
02:08:55,720 --> 02:08:59,440
Speaker 1: gonna have to have some conversations and get some more

2171
02:08:59,440 --> 02:09:01,960
Speaker 1: money rolling. I don't think we need much. What when

2172
02:09:01,960 --> 02:09:04,440
Speaker 1: will the civil thing become more clear? Like what you

2173
02:09:04,480 --> 02:09:08,000
Speaker 1: gotta do and all that? We don't know yet. Um,

2174
02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:13,040
Speaker 1: there's some judgments, some it depends on that federal court. Right, Well,

2175
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:16,360
Speaker 1: the federal courts keeping the case, and so then there's

2176
02:09:16,440 --> 02:09:19,880
Speaker 1: a there's some emotions out there that they have to

2177
02:09:19,960 --> 02:09:23,120
Speaker 1: rule on first, maybe just a motion to dismiss. I

2178
02:09:23,160 --> 02:09:26,480
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly attorney jobs. Yeah. One of the problems,

2179
02:09:26,520 --> 02:09:31,680
Speaker 1: and I've learned this watching different Supreme Court cases, in

2180
02:09:31,720 --> 02:09:34,360
Speaker 1: federal cases. At oftentimes you want it to be like

2181
02:09:34,440 --> 02:09:39,080
Speaker 1: this um like final decision, right, But a lot of

2182
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:41,160
Speaker 1: times it's like what happened? No, it's so like the

2183
02:09:41,200 --> 02:09:46,320
Speaker 1: findings are so obscure. Would be that our ruling is

2184
02:09:46,360 --> 02:09:51,800
Speaker 1: that the state should go in better define part of this,

2185
02:09:53,040 --> 02:09:56,280
Speaker 1: better define a term at play here. That was it

2186
02:09:57,160 --> 02:10:00,520
Speaker 1: that guys are gonna have to define air, right or

2187
02:10:00,560 --> 02:10:03,040
Speaker 1: like you know, you're like like, oh, also would it

2188
02:10:03,160 --> 02:10:06,880
Speaker 1: be like and just like it just winds up being

2189
02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:09,720
Speaker 1: like another sort of they punted, right. That was part

2190
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:15,080
Speaker 1: of the argument in court was they argued over the

2191
02:10:15,200 --> 02:10:19,840
Speaker 1: definition of public land and private land. And so the

2192
02:10:19,880 --> 02:10:23,360
Speaker 1: prosecutor wanted to use the definition of private land, and

2193
02:10:23,400 --> 02:10:26,760
Speaker 1: so our attorneys argued the definition, Well, in that case,

2194
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:31,240
Speaker 1: we must have the definition of public land. M And

2195
02:10:31,560 --> 02:10:36,480
Speaker 1: but if one would have been you know, he wasted

2196
02:10:36,520 --> 02:10:38,600
Speaker 1: a lot of time in court? Were you following everything

2197
02:10:38,640 --> 02:10:41,720
Speaker 1: in court? It was easy to follow if just someone

2198
02:10:41,760 --> 02:10:43,320
Speaker 1: who had been sitting in there, and we're sitting in

2199
02:10:43,360 --> 02:10:46,760
Speaker 1: a room. The courtroom was about twice this size. So yeah,

2200
02:10:46,840 --> 02:10:48,600
Speaker 1: there's no getting away from any of it. You're righting

2201
02:10:48,640 --> 02:10:51,240
Speaker 1: amongst the middle of I Did it ever get to

2202
02:10:51,280 --> 02:10:54,760
Speaker 1: where they were arguing over obscure stuff you hadn't thought

2203
02:10:54,760 --> 02:10:57,200
Speaker 1: about before? Were you? Were you tracking the arguments like

2204
02:10:57,200 --> 02:10:59,840
Speaker 1: you knew what was going on? Oh yeah, there's a

2205
02:10:59,840 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 1: lot of stuff you don't think about that they brought up.

2206
02:11:02,280 --> 02:11:05,680
Speaker 1: The surprise, you did come up lot of that before

2207
02:11:05,720 --> 02:11:08,120
Speaker 1: we actually went to court to all the different motions

2208
02:11:08,160 --> 02:11:12,680
Speaker 1: and arguments were right forever, I thought we already did this,

2209
02:11:13,840 --> 02:11:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, word it a different way. Right, So where

2210
02:11:17,200 --> 02:11:19,400
Speaker 1: things are at now? Did it screw up your hunting plans?

2211
02:11:19,400 --> 02:11:21,400
Speaker 1: For that's what I want to know. Where are you hunting?

2212
02:11:21,440 --> 02:11:25,520
Speaker 1: This ball place might be a little blown up now, Well,

2213
02:11:25,640 --> 02:11:28,960
Speaker 1: we're probably gonna draw tags this year for don't say

2214
02:11:28,960 --> 02:11:31,680
Speaker 1: too much, Phil, You don't have that kind of information. Remember,

2215
02:11:31,680 --> 02:11:35,720
Speaker 1: I'm an old We've got we've got other planes. We'll

2216
02:11:35,800 --> 02:11:39,040
Speaker 1: hut somewhere the landoord he probably just invited you out

2217
02:11:39,080 --> 02:11:43,440
Speaker 1: by this point, didn't he My phone hasn't ranked gys

2218
02:11:43,560 --> 02:11:46,160
Speaker 1: his guides out there, right he should? Well, maybe you

2219
02:11:46,200 --> 02:11:47,920
Speaker 1: read a letter that says come on out to our

2220
02:11:47,960 --> 02:11:52,360
Speaker 1: place in Missouri. You know, Yeah, he can't come there

2221
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:56,720
Speaker 1: you go. I'll take him hunt there you go? Yeah,

2222
02:11:57,960 --> 02:12:02,920
Speaker 1: swap right. Um, we're gonna wrap it up first first,

2223
02:12:02,920 --> 02:12:05,120
Speaker 1: to raise some money for your legal fund. You need

2224
02:12:05,160 --> 02:12:10,160
Speaker 1: to develop like packable, lightweight, like carbon fiber version of

2225
02:12:10,240 --> 02:12:13,000
Speaker 1: that uh that ladder. Well, when you guys do find

2226
02:12:13,000 --> 02:12:15,040
Speaker 1: out what's up ahead, please let us know and we'll

2227
02:12:15,040 --> 02:12:16,960
Speaker 1: help get some more will help get a little more

2228
02:12:17,080 --> 02:12:20,320
Speaker 1: jingle rolling for you. Yeah, when we know that street

2229
02:12:20,360 --> 02:12:23,160
Speaker 1: turn for money, Johnnie John, He's like, we're they gonna

2230
02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:28,600
Speaker 1: some jingles. He's trying to think of a jam. Uh yeah,

2231
02:12:28,720 --> 02:12:32,240
Speaker 1: thank you. It's very very much for great. I want

2232
02:12:32,240 --> 02:12:35,839
Speaker 1: to take a picture of you guys. Here's here's some evil.

2233
02:12:38,200 --> 02:12:40,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this brings me all way back to the

2234
02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:42,080
Speaker 1: outlaw of Josie wales Man. You don't mess with the

2235
02:12:42,080 --> 02:12:47,600
Speaker 1: Missourian's Missouri boat rad. Alright, guys, you guys sticking around

2236
02:12:47,640 --> 02:12:51,600
Speaker 1: for trivia. I guess if we're supposed to be better.

2237
02:12:52,480 --> 02:12:55,120
Speaker 1: That'd be great. I'll probably beat you guys. Asses. We're

2238
02:12:55,160 --> 02:13:00,440
Speaker 1: counting on it. Fills the trivia the tall right. Thanks, Thanks,

2239
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:02,640
Speaker 1: I really appreciate Please come back. Don't do any other

2240
02:13:02,680 --> 02:13:03,720
Speaker 1: podcast right,