Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 1: and speaker.
Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah hart Unger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
Speaker 2: and course creator. We are two working parents who love
Speaker 2: our careers and our families.
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
Speaker 1: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 3: Term career goals.
Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 3: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 1: This is an episode that is airing in sort of
Speaker 1: mid to late February, right after Valentine's Day. I hope
Speaker 1: everyone had a great celebration, if that's something you do.
Speaker 1: But we're going to be talking in this episode about
Speaker 1: quality time. So obviously relationships are important for all of us,
Speaker 1: and some of that is simply built about spending time
Speaker 1: to gather. So we are recording this prior to Valentine's Day,
Speaker 1: so we thought we'd have a quick discussion of it, Like, Sarah,
Speaker 1: do you guys do anything for Valentine's Day?
Speaker 2: We don't tend to do anything super traditional like Romance was,
Speaker 2: so it's not a night that Josh and I go
Speaker 2: out to dinner or schedule a one on one date
Speaker 2: or anything like that. I think more he really prefers
Speaker 2: to avoid crowds, and if that's a night that everybody
Speaker 2: else is going to be hitting the nice restaurants, that's
Speaker 2: probably a night we're not going to want to do.
Speaker 2: So when we were young and childless, we used to
Speaker 2: make French toast and drink a lot of champagne and
Speaker 2: eat free. That was like our tradition. But nowadays we
Speaker 2: don't even do that. We do do a family treasure hunt,
Speaker 2: which I have introduced on this podcast before, but I'm
Speaker 2: going to mention it again just because I've gotten so
Speaker 2: many lovely emails of people who have adopted this tradition
Speaker 2: in their families, and so I figure, if this touches
Speaker 2: some more listeners, then why not share it one more time.
Speaker 2: And that is the fact that my dad, when we
Speaker 2: were growing up, developed this like little game where he
Speaker 2: would just do little treasure hunt clues that would lead
Speaker 2: to a Valentine's surprise, which was not really a surprise.
Speaker 2: It was always a heart shape box of seas candies.
Speaker 2: Those are good things and they were very much geared
Speaker 2: to the age of us, so like they started out
Speaker 2: as really simple clues, and then by the time we
Speaker 2: were in high school, the clues were like in French,
Speaker 2: and you know, it became more difficult. So we'd run
Speaker 2: around the house and get our little prize. And so
Speaker 2: as soon as my kids were old enough to kind
Speaker 2: of look at pictures and figure out the clues, we
Speaker 2: started it here and we've been doing it every year
Speaker 2: and they love it. We don't. We're not like a
Speaker 2: big tradition or like celebration type of family, but this
Speaker 2: one has really stood the test of time and I
Speaker 2: can't wait. So when this airs, hopefully we will have
Speaker 2: had a great Valentine's Treasure hunt. And if you end
Speaker 2: up adopting this in the future, let me know, because
Speaker 2: those stories have made me so happy. I'm sure they
Speaker 2: make my dad happy as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I could see you adopt this for any sort
Speaker 1: of holiday, right, I mean, you could do an arbor
Speaker 1: day scavenger leads to a plant, leads to a plant.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, labor Day. I don't know what
Speaker 1: you do with that, something with their job anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so cute. I love that idea. That's really fun.
Speaker 1: It just made me think that the C's candy box
Speaker 1: I had when I was growing up, we kept my
Speaker 1: krans in a Whitman's Sampler box. I'm sure like my
Speaker 1: parents must have gotten a Whitman's Sampler at some point,
Speaker 1: and then you know it was a box, and so
Speaker 1: where do you put your crans? Well, you put your
Speaker 1: crans in like, you know, an available box with a
Speaker 1: lid that you have, which means that I never knew
Speaker 1: that that wasn't for krans. And then like later in life,
Speaker 1: I would see these in store and be like, what.
Speaker 3: Those are the krans here in the chocolate aisle.
Speaker 1: So my husband and I actually met on February fifteenth,
Speaker 1: so we kind of have a Valentine's Day oriented time
Speaker 1: for celebrating our relationship this year. We are we actually
Speaker 1: got okay, So we met on February fifteenth, two thousand
Speaker 1: and three, and then got engaged on February fifteenth, two
Speaker 1: thousand and four. So this is actually the twin fieth
Speaker 1: anniversary thereof this year. However, when we're saying this ahead
Speaker 1: of time, I guess we're not doing anything with the
Speaker 1: two of us that I am aware of because we
Speaker 1: are going to be on something of an epic family trip,
Speaker 1: which I will talk about later, but yeah, it was,
Speaker 1: you know, so I think that is just probably not
Speaker 1: going to happen this year, although we are looking to
Speaker 1: do something to celebrate our actual wedding anniversary, which you know,
Speaker 1: we got married in September of two thousand and four,
Speaker 1: So we'll celebrate our twentieth anniversary in some way, shape
Speaker 1: or form, maybe incorporate whatever we would have done on
Speaker 1: the fourteenth fifteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't realize you were having your twentieth this year.
Speaker 3: That's exciting. I know we're getting old some.
Speaker 2: Milestone and it fits very well with our theme.
Speaker 3: Exactly, which is quality time. So Sarah, why don't you
Speaker 3: talk a little bit about why we were thinking about
Speaker 3: doing this episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we talk a lot about goals on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Maybe I love it a lot, and so it comes
Speaker 2: up and we talk about things that make us happy,
Speaker 2: and relationships are always a common theme, and how do
Speaker 2: you strengthen a relationship? I mean, Laura has pointed out
Speaker 2: a lot of times it's just sort of like the
Speaker 2: time you spend together, which can be serendipitous, Like maybe
Speaker 2: you're just like at work, so you're spending a lot
Speaker 2: of time with your colleague and that deepens your friendship.
Speaker 2: Or it can be really really purposeful and intentional where
Speaker 2: you carve out time to spend with a certain person
Speaker 2: and then that strengthens the relationship as well. And so
Speaker 2: we thought that kind of an honor of this belated
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day themed episode that we would talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about quality time as it relates to different relationships,
Speaker 2: beginning with the romantic type and fun fact, it is
Speaker 2: one of the five love languages that are famous, the
Speaker 2: other ones being acts of service, words of affirmation, gifts,
Speaker 2: and touch, and Laura and I both agree that we
Speaker 2: don't want to pick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know this is like, I don't know that
Speaker 1: one is my particular language. I think they all sound great, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you could do my dishes and me how
Speaker 1: wonderful I am, while giving me a BackRub and you know,
Speaker 1: and giving me gifts.
Speaker 3: I'd be good with all of that. Really, that sounds great.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, in this episode, we're gonna be talking about
Speaker 1: how to spend quality time with your partner, your kids,
Speaker 1: and yourself, because that is a relationship that is important
Speaker 1: and I think is worth developing. In fact, you might
Speaker 1: even sort of think about this how you are nurturing
Speaker 1: your relationship with yourself, because of all the people you
Speaker 1: spend time with, you clearly spend the most time with yourself.
Speaker 1: So it is worth having that be a positive and
Speaker 1: loving relationship, which we certainly hope that all our listeners
Speaker 1: are experiencing. But if you are not, there are some
Speaker 1: great ways to kind of nudge that along. So to
Speaker 1: start with the partner though, in honor of Valentine's Day,
Speaker 1: for people who are partnered with someone, we have both
Speaker 1: noticed that as your kids get older, there's a slight
Speaker 1: change and sort of the time available And it's maybe
Speaker 1: not what people think about, right, So you're seeing this.
Speaker 2: Yes, so I'm someone and you've heard me talk about
Speaker 2: it that that feels like there is more free time
Speaker 2: in the big kid years, or maybe a little bit
Speaker 2: more mental space, and I find it a bit easier. However,
Speaker 2: the one exception to that is finding one on one
Speaker 2: time with my husband that is more difficult, mostly just
Speaker 2: because the kids are up later. Now Laura's kids didn't
Speaker 2: necessarily have early bedtimes ever, but I mean now it's
Speaker 2: not uncommon for my kids to want to stay up
Speaker 2: later than I do. That is because I'm a bit
Speaker 2: of an extreme early bird. But still that means that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, those quiet conversations that used to happen after
Speaker 2: kid bedtime or even like in the baby baby years,
Speaker 2: when you maybe would give your baby their baby food dinner,
Speaker 2: put them to bed, and then have like an adult dinner,
Speaker 2: those are so far removed from our current reality. Like
Speaker 2: we're not doing that, and so we have to be
Speaker 2: much more purposeful if we want to be alone together.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in like that way necessarily,
Speaker 2: although that's important too, but even just to like have
Speaker 2: a nice conversation can be a challenge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I say, my kids never went to bed
Speaker 1: or this wasn't something like we could reliably spend time
Speaker 1: together after the kids went to bed. I mean just
Speaker 1: because and it's not that I don't want my kids
Speaker 1: to have an early bedtime.
Speaker 3: I've tried. They just like sit there.
Speaker 1: I mean even last night Henry was just like in
Speaker 1: his room, playing on the floor in the dark.
Speaker 3: Like, Henry, you gotta.
Speaker 1: Get in your bed and go to sleep, and eventually
Speaker 1: he did, but he's not. It's not you know, a
Speaker 1: situation you could just like completely relax and like there
Speaker 1: will be no calling for you. I mean, he's still
Speaker 1: up and something could happen. So yeah, it's it's just
Speaker 1: that's never been a great option for us. But fortunately
Speaker 1: there are other times and I think you really just
Speaker 1: have to look at the whole of the week and
Speaker 1: be a little strategic. So, Sarah, what are some times
Speaker 1: that you guys have done?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would say we're still a work in
Speaker 2: progress in many ways. In this we are pretty successful
Speaker 2: with scheduling weekend dates. We have a number of babysitters.
Speaker 2: It's actually not our core nanny that we use for
Speaker 2: these types of things. She really prefers not to work weekends,
Speaker 2: and so we respect that and have continued to employ
Speaker 2: the same couple of babysitters that my kids are really
Speaker 2: comfortable with. We are starting to almost age out of
Speaker 2: the need for that. We're like right on the cusp
Speaker 2: as Annabel is turning twelve, but right now we still
Speaker 2: are not giving her that responsibility, especially if it's a
Speaker 2: longer night, and so we do hire someone and I
Speaker 2: try to do one to two each month. It's very
Speaker 2: much dictated by our call schedules, and I also try
Speaker 2: to strike a balance between kind of the one on
Speaker 2: one stuff that's just us and then the kind of
Speaker 2: like fun with other people. And honestly, I think my
Speaker 2: husband would prefer that most of our interactions be more
Speaker 2: just us, and I enjoy some of the social time,
Speaker 2: so it's like being really respectful of the other's person.
Speaker 2: I think we do a good job kind of negotiating that.
Speaker 2: So that's like, you know, number one, just scheduling it,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to be a weekend. By the way,
Speaker 2: I think weeknights are such an awesome opportunity for so
Speaker 2: many couples because you can have your caregiver just kind
Speaker 2: of like stay late. That doesn't always work for us
Speaker 2: as well well, for a number of reasons, some of
Speaker 2: it being that I often have two kids in different
Speaker 2: locations in the evening doing different activities, so there's just
Speaker 2: not enough drivers to go around, even if our nanny
Speaker 2: is doing all of the kid duty. And then also
Speaker 2: my husband's schedule is fairly unpredictable at night, and it
Speaker 2: would just be sad for me to be so looking
Speaker 2: forward to something like I could schedule sling for myself
Speaker 2: when we get into self love, but with him on
Speaker 2: a Wednesday is like a little dicey. And so I
Speaker 2: have good friends who love to plan on yoga classes together.
Speaker 2: So that's like they do a couples walk. They just
Speaker 2: walk to the yoga studio, they take yoga together, and
Speaker 2: then they like talk and walk on the way back.
Speaker 2: So they're like double dutying with exercise and couple time.
Speaker 2: And then don't underestimate the totally parractical trips like a
Speaker 2: trip to Costco together. I think I've talked about, like
Speaker 2: we had a date to go mattress shopping and it
Speaker 2: was actually like really fun, like I remember it. It
Speaker 2: was a lot of years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we in the run up to the holidays, we
Speaker 1: actually went on a Costco date. I mean, so what
Speaker 1: we've done is we actually have care for Henry on
Speaker 1: a couple saturdays a month during the day, and so
Speaker 1: rather than like going out we I mean, we've just
Speaker 1: not been going out for dinner that much with the
Speaker 1: two of us. Often we'll take the bigger kids somewhere
Speaker 1: if we, you know, have the option to do that,
Speaker 1: or we have various things going on, but you know,
Speaker 1: with that that gives the option for us to come
Speaker 1: up with something a little bit more spontaneous or so
Speaker 1: just spend some time together on Saturday afternoon. But one
Speaker 1: week I was like, I knew my husband really wanted
Speaker 1: to go to Costco. It was something that we he
Speaker 1: just he gives like, whoa, we're down on the parmesan
Speaker 1: cheese and the sam and for bagels. We need to
Speaker 1: get to Costco. So I was like, Okay, we'll go
Speaker 1: to Costco. And I don't know, it was like our
Speaker 1: biggest ticket Costco trip ever. It was something about the
Speaker 1: two of us being there, and I mean guess maybe
Speaker 1: was because we were thinking it was sort of our
Speaker 1: date for the week. We're just like, oh, yes, let's
Speaker 1: get this, let's get this, and next thing, I know,
Speaker 1: it was like we could have actually gone somewhere really
Speaker 1: nice for what we spent at Costco. But anyway, we
Speaker 1: did have our parmers on cheese and our salmon. That
Speaker 1: got us through for at least a few weeks, I guess.
Speaker 1: But it speaks to the idea of having some sort
Speaker 1: of you know, if you have little kids, having some
Speaker 1: sort of regular childcare that is outside your working hours.
Speaker 1: And the reason is that planning a date takes work,
Speaker 1: especially if you are needing to both find a time
Speaker 1: that both of you are free, figure out the extra
Speaker 1: caregiving time, you know, if it's finding a babysitter for
Speaker 1: that night or whatever, and then there's ways to make
Speaker 1: it easier and all that. But all those steps mean
Speaker 1: it is somewhat less likely to happen, particularly if you've
Speaker 1: had a really busy week at work, or you know,
Speaker 1: someone's feeling resentful that they're doing a lot of the
Speaker 1: mental load, or you know, whatever it happens to be.
Speaker 1: So having at least some regular time means that you
Speaker 1: can be slightly more spontaneous and say like, oh, well
Speaker 1: the weather's nice, we could go for a walk in
Speaker 1: the botanical garden at this time, or oh, Joe and
Speaker 1: Sally are going to be in town, we could meet
Speaker 1: up with them for a drink. But you don't have
Speaker 1: to decided all of this ahead of time, and I
Speaker 1: think reducing that makes it somewhat easier to do something
Speaker 1: in the moment.
Speaker 3: So just going to put out a shout out for that.
Speaker 1: And we are sort of graduating into the time where
Speaker 1: we can actually go out without a sinner, which is
Speaker 1: nice as well. You know, obviously our older children, the
Speaker 1: three older children are all old enough to babysit if
Speaker 1: need be, and so we've started occasionally leaving them with
Speaker 1: Henry and Alex and going out for an hour or ninety.
Speaker 3: Minutes for something if we want to do that.
Speaker 1: So you know, it does get better eventually, because then
Speaker 1: that gives you the opportunity to be a little bit
Speaker 1: more spontaneous too, because it's like, wow, we got to
Speaker 1: live in sitter, and you know, they can say if
Speaker 1: they have something they need to do or whatever, but
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, if they're just sitting around watching their iPad,
Speaker 1: Like we often will pay for date night sitting as
Speaker 1: we would pay for a babysitter, So hey, you're getting
Speaker 1: paid to watch your iPad.
Speaker 3: That's like even even better. I love it.
Speaker 2: And short can be great. I mean, these hour long
Speaker 2: things can still be rejuvenating, especially if you just kind
Speaker 2: of like need a break from that parenting role just
Speaker 2: getting out of the house together. But I will say
Speaker 2: long is also kind of amazing. And I know it's
Speaker 2: harder to orchestreet, but there are ways around it. If
Speaker 2: you don't have a childcare provider that's willing to do nights,
Speaker 2: families do swaps. You could depending how old your kids
Speaker 2: are just like be like, can we do a sleepover
Speaker 2: where your kids come this weekend and our kids go
Speaker 2: to your house two weekends from now, and you both
Speaker 2: get to enjoy some either just stay home and have
Speaker 2: a couple of time or go on I really short
Speaker 2: get away like a hotel an hour away or something
Speaker 2: like that, because I will say the short trips I
Speaker 2: take with my husband are very rejuvenating to our relationships,
Speaker 2: to ourselves. I look forward to them. I love them.
Speaker 2: We often do some like planning type stuff, but we
Speaker 2: do a lot of relaxation and connection and stuff too,
Speaker 2: and I just I love them. If it's something that
Speaker 2: you might be able to make happen and explore, I
Speaker 2: highly recommend giving it a try.
Speaker 1: I think there's also a question of just general awareness,
Speaker 1: which is good to have. And one of the upsides
Speaker 1: of tracking my time is I can look back and
Speaker 1: see if there was some quality time spent during the week,
Speaker 1: and so I might have a story of like, oh,
Speaker 1: my husband and I never spend any time together. We
Speaker 1: never do anything together, And sometimes that feels true because
Speaker 1: again I'm often the one orchestrating the dates, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I get a little bit like I don't feel like
Speaker 1: planning a single other thing after planning for seven people
Speaker 1: to do X, Y and Z. But then I can
Speaker 1: look back and say, well, actually, you know, in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, we had a bunch of really cool dates,
Speaker 1: like we went to a Billy Joel concert together, we
Speaker 1: went on a bike ride, press going to a brewery
Speaker 1: on one Saturday, we went to a Sixers game. We
Speaker 1: actually finally got away overnight for one night for our
Speaker 1: first time in four years. So it did happen. It
Speaker 1: may not happen frequently, but it did happen. And then
Speaker 1: I can also see sort of the little times that
Speaker 1: are built into the week. So my husband and I
Speaker 1: actually do talk most mornings after he gets back from
Speaker 1: driving Jasper or the middle schoolers to the bus or
Speaker 1: to jazz band. If he's either working at home or
Speaker 1: not going into his office until later in the day,
Speaker 1: he'll come back to have breakfast and I'm usually having
Speaker 1: breakfast around that time too, so we'll sit there and
Speaker 1: have our eggs together in the morning. For you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like ten minutes, but we are talking, and
Speaker 1: so I need to notice that that is happening, right,
Speaker 1: So it's not that we never spend time together, but
Speaker 1: here we are eating breakfast. We probably eat lunch together
Speaker 1: once a week or so if he's working from home, so,
Speaker 1: you know, just being aware of it. And then if
Speaker 1: I am aware of it, then I'm like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: given that we are doing this, I probably shouldn't just
Speaker 1: like disappear into my office at seven thirty five if
Speaker 1: I can, if the little boys aren't awake yet, because
Speaker 1: this is an opportunity.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's as I would say, seize the opportunity. See,
Speaker 2: let's take a quick break before we move on to
Speaker 2: talking about some other types of connection time, and we'll
Speaker 2: be right back.
Speaker 1: Well, we are back talking all things quality time, boosting
Speaker 1: relationships by spending intentional time together with partners, with children,
Speaker 1: and with ourselves. So moving on to the kid category.
Speaker 1: I know Sarah and I have both made it a
Speaker 1: goal at various points to do more one on one
Speaker 1: time with our kids. When you have something of a
Speaker 1: brood with a larger family, this can become challenging, but
Speaker 1: it often is among the more pleasant parts of parenting.
Speaker 3: So, Sarah, what have you been doing in that category?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have kind of added it to my
Speaker 2: weekly planning process to look at our week and what's
Speaker 2: going on and see, like, is there somewhere that it
Speaker 2: would make sense that I could take one kid to
Speaker 2: do something. Maybe it's just I'm taking a kid to
Speaker 2: a birthday party and I'm gonna take them to Target
Speaker 2: or something. A lot of times I'll just do dinner.
Speaker 2: So you know, if a kid has an activity that
Speaker 2: ends maybe at six thirty, we could do a quick
Speaker 2: dinner afterwards, one on one. And it does not have
Speaker 2: to be fancy. It could be Panera, it could be
Speaker 2: fast food. It just has to be us together, like
Speaker 2: and I don't even have to make a big thing
Speaker 2: of it, not necessarily deep questions, but just have the
Speaker 2: opportunity there for that connection. And my kids, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think the more kids you have, my guess is
Speaker 2: the more they love being by themselves because they are
Speaker 2: often just their best selves, on their best behavior, the
Speaker 2: most interesting, and you can tell they just really really
Speaker 2: enjoy that time. You know. The other benefit is if
Speaker 2: you have a partner and you have more than two kids.
Speaker 2: Anytime somebody takes two kids, then there's another kid left over,
Speaker 2: and so sometimes it can feel like the right split
Speaker 2: is like three and zero, like somebody takes all the
Speaker 2: kids and somebody takes none, but actually two in one
Speaker 2: can be quite pleasant depending on the different combinations, and
Speaker 2: we try to balance out who has the one because
Speaker 2: it shouldn't always be the same partner. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: just paying attention to the opportunities and keeping it simple.
Speaker 2: I do try to do like full on mommy days
Speaker 2: once a year. I haven't totally committed to that this year,
Speaker 2: but my kids really love it, so I'll probably also
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I would suggest so.
Speaker 1: One of the issues Sarah had last summer when she
Speaker 1: was doing the one on one day is because she
Speaker 1: obviously has a fairly inflexible work schedule with seeing patients,
Speaker 1: and so it always wound up happening on Tuesdays, and
Speaker 1: I think you were booked like three tuesdays in a
Speaker 1: row with your one on one time with the kids,
Speaker 1: and so then of course everything else that she had
Speaker 1: to do was all shoved to Thursday, and it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, compressed in and she was like telling me like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I've been on a microphone for eight
Speaker 1: hours straight now. So slightly challenging, which we get, Like,
Speaker 1: I know, many of our listeners have work schedules where
Speaker 1: that's not going to work very easily to commit to
Speaker 1: the one on one times, I would say, though, you
Speaker 1: can look into weekends, like it doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: during the day. We think like during the day on
Speaker 1: summer because the weekday, because that's something you might be
Speaker 1: able to book out and do. But I know we
Speaker 1: split the one on one days last summer, my husband
Speaker 1: and I and he actually did the two younger boys,
Speaker 1: and those definitely happened on Saturdays, right, Like that was
Speaker 1: not going to happen on a Tuesday. I mean I
Speaker 1: could have, but it was just going to the logistics
Speaker 1: of him doing that were slightly more complicated. And Saturday
Speaker 1: Sunday are available, right, so he would take one of them,
Speaker 1: I would have the other kids. And then that happened
Speaker 1: again another weekend, And so that can absolutely work as well.
Speaker 1: You just have to coordinate with your partner and maybe
Speaker 1: two weekend where there are fewer activities so the driving
Speaker 1: isn't so crazy for the person who's taking all the others.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we've done.
Speaker 1: One on one days I think every summer, just because Yeah,
Speaker 1: the kids really do look forward to it. And I
Speaker 1: remember when I first did this, and Ruth was probably
Speaker 1: like four, and she's gonna be twelve this summer. So
Speaker 1: this is eight years ago when I was first doing it,
Speaker 1: and I took her to an amusement park for the
Speaker 1: day and I was just like, this is just like
Speaker 1: it's blissful, Like we can do whatever she wants and
Speaker 1: so we don't have to fight about it. Like she
Speaker 1: wants to go ride the Merry Go Round, we go
Speaker 1: ride the Merry Go Round. She wants to get the
Speaker 1: funnel cake, we go get the funnel cake. Because it
Speaker 1: was not something that had to be negotiated with multiple
Speaker 1: other interested stakeholders, and so it just made it so
Speaker 1: much more pleasant and low key to do it, and
Speaker 1: so I was like, this is so fun. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: we've tried to repeat that every summer, and as the
Speaker 1: kids get older, they often ask for trips for Christmas.
Speaker 1: So this year Sam is going to go on a
Speaker 1: diving trip with Michael. I'm going to take Jasper to
Speaker 1: New York. And this just wound up happening, but Ruth
Speaker 1: and I have a trip planned as well now, so.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 1: I do enjoy these quite a lot, but it's also
Speaker 1: just being aware of it, right, So I mean, like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you think about like going into one kid's
Speaker 1: room and just chatting with them for a while.
Speaker 2: No, definitely. I mean I have like a bedtime routine
Speaker 2: most nice where I try to at least try to
Speaker 2: get each kid alone for at least a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2: It's not always a long period of time, because sometimes
Speaker 2: one kid takes forever to put to bed and then
Speaker 2: that doesn't leave as much time for the other kids,
Speaker 2: but definitely try to at least go in those rooms
Speaker 2: and like make the opportunity happen. And I got to say,
Speaker 2: those one on one trips really are fun. I think
Speaker 2: the magic age is around six to seven where they
Speaker 2: become really not a lot of work and really enjoyable.
Speaker 2: So think about that as well. And if you have
Speaker 2: two kids, like one fun thing might be to do
Speaker 2: like a maybe Friday to Saturday and your partner and
Speaker 2: you like split the kids up and you each get
Speaker 2: a different kid, and like, yes, that's different than a
Speaker 2: couple's trip, but it can be its own kind of
Speaker 2: source of really fun memories and maybe do something very
Speaker 2: much tailored to that's kids interests and be really fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and certainly one of the reasons again having some
Speaker 1: childcare for Henry on the weekend, I definitely think about
Speaker 1: using that time for spending quality time with the older kids,
Speaker 1: because again having a much younger child, they wind up
Speaker 1: taking a lot of your time and effort just because
Speaker 1: they are little and need more things, and so if
Speaker 1: they're around, it becomes very challenging to spend time with
Speaker 1: the older kids. So when he's not there, I can
Speaker 1: try to take advantage of it. So for instance, Alex
Speaker 1: and I are doing a Lego project together. We are
Speaker 1: building the game truck, so you know, we sit there
Speaker 1: and go through a bag each day, trying to make
Speaker 1: sure we have that twenty to thirty minutes to gather.
Speaker 1: Like the other day, I went for a walk with
Speaker 1: Ruth or Jasper and I now sing in choir together,
Speaker 1: so we have some of that time together. And Sam's
Speaker 1: a little bit more challenging because he's kind of introverted like.
Speaker 3: I, but we sees what we can with talking with him.
Speaker 1: I actually had lunch with him yesterday because he was
Speaker 1: home sick from school, but it was nice to be
Speaker 1: able to do that. And just a practical tip if
Speaker 1: you have lots of kids and they're in different schools.
Speaker 1: Sometimes there are random things like half days or in
Speaker 1: service days, teacher in service days. If you've got these
Speaker 1: on your calendar enough ahead of time, you could potentially
Speaker 1: block one of these off, or your partner could block
Speaker 1: one of these off from work. I mean, because a
Speaker 1: you know, if you're using school as childcare, you kind
Speaker 1: of have to figure that out anyway, Like somebody is
Speaker 1: going to have to cover that day, But if your
Speaker 1: other kids are in school, then you could use that
Speaker 1: time as potential one on one time. So I, for instance,
Speaker 1: have taken some of the older kids out to lunch
Speaker 1: if they have a half day on a particular day,
Speaker 1: and that's something we could make work.
Speaker 3: That's nice.
Speaker 2: I like that all right. Well, our third category that
Speaker 2: we didn't want to leave out. I think Laura actually
Speaker 2: wanted to do a whole episode on this, so maybe
Speaker 2: we'll have to expand it in in the future, and
Speaker 2: that is loving Yourself.
Speaker 1: I was gonna call it be your Own Valentine, but
Speaker 1: our recording schedule didn't quite work.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty five five.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we're like, no, that doesn't work with our
Speaker 1: calendar to do this before Valentine's Days whatever, All right,
Speaker 1: be your own Valentine Day six days later.
Speaker 3: You can be your own Valentine six days later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no time limit to self love.
Speaker 1: Yes, we may have to recycle that one in a
Speaker 1: future year. So, Sarah, what do you do for your
Speaker 1: making yourself feel special?
Speaker 2: I really think some of this is about leaning in
Speaker 2: and maybe it's things that you would do otherwise, but
Speaker 2: like approaching them with an attitude of well, I didn't
Speaker 2: mean to rhyme this, but like to be like really
Speaker 2: grateful if you do happen to have free time to
Speaker 2: do something for yourself, or if you've made the free
Speaker 2: time to do something for yourself. And I know we're
Speaker 2: very busy, we are all working, we have a lot
Speaker 2: of kids. But those times that you're able to maybe
Speaker 2: get a manny petty during lunch or book a massage
Speaker 2: on a day off or something like that, like to
Speaker 2: really look forward to them, to think about them, to
Speaker 2: think about how you might best use these pockets of
Speaker 2: times to serve yourself and to rest, and then to
Speaker 2: really try to be present when you're experiencing them. So
Speaker 2: those are very cliche type things. And I know, like
Speaker 2: there's a lot of backlash about like being punitive about
Speaker 2: self like if you're not doing the I don't know,
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of talk about self care, and
Speaker 2: I actually love the book Real Self Care by Pooja Lashman,
Speaker 2: who definitely talks about the other side of self care.
Speaker 2: And yet these very traditional actions can be really wonderful
Speaker 2: as well if you enjoy them. I also see a
Speaker 2: lot of my social endeavors as self care. Again, also
Speaker 2: because I do feel like I'm the more extroverted member
Speaker 2: of our family. Probably well a couple of my kids
Speaker 2: might be similar to me, but I really crave some
Speaker 2: time with others, especially other women, and so I see
Speaker 2: my group runs as self care and my book club
Speaker 2: and things like that. And finally, I feel like the
Speaker 2: I don't know the intentionality around just being really lazy
Speaker 2: sometimes and just being like I am going I don't
Speaker 2: care what the house looks like, I'll deal with it tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I'm going to lie down and read this book while
Speaker 2: my kids are playing video games and I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: like order takeout for dinner, and like I have two
Speaker 2: whole hours to do that. Like that is sometimes just
Speaker 2: so needed and so nice, and I think it's better
Speaker 2: to do it with like I'm giving this as a
Speaker 2: gift to myself, rather than feeling guilty that you're like
Speaker 2: not doing something else. So I've worked really hard at that,
Speaker 2: and I feel like I enjoy my lazy times more
Speaker 2: than I perhaps use two in years past.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and noticing these and being aware of them when
Speaker 1: space is open and you can leave it open. Right
Speaker 1: this morning, Michael was driving the older kids to high
Speaker 1: school and jazz band, so they were all out of
Speaker 1: the house at about seven oh two, and you know,
Speaker 1: I've been running around getting them out the door. But
Speaker 1: then the little boys were still asleep, and so I
Speaker 1: was like, I have my freshly brewed cup of coffee here.
Speaker 1: I am going to go sit in the formal living room,
Speaker 1: you know, and go sit down and look out the window,
Speaker 1: look at the rising sun and the wintry landscape and
Speaker 1: just sort of relaxed. And I looked out the window
Speaker 1: for a while and I read some blogs, and I just,
Speaker 1: you know, it was like, this is my me time,
Speaker 1: and it's my self care here, you know. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure I could have done something else, Like there's things
Speaker 1: I could do. I could have started working, I could
Speaker 1: have picked up the ridiculous number of things that seem
Speaker 1: to wind up on the floor, but this was the
Speaker 1: time for me to relax and enjoy it myself. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I see noticing pockets of time like that
Speaker 1: and then choosing not to fill them even though there's
Speaker 1: always things that could fill them. And then, you know,
Speaker 1: I really think of self care as more of being
Speaker 1: interested in your own life, which is doing things that
Speaker 1: make you happy simply because they make you happy. And
Speaker 1: you know, there may be other things that are part
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, I've you know, with singing, it's
Speaker 1: partly about helping to make worship services better with my
Speaker 1: choir and all that, but it's also just because I
Speaker 1: like it, and so I'm willing to make space for
Speaker 1: that in my life, many hours a week for it.
Speaker 1: And then other things like my projects of like listening
Speaker 1: to Bach every day, like that's something that I enjoy,
Speaker 1: or getting design books from the library and then spending
Speaker 1: time reading those, like looking through books of interesting architecture,
Speaker 1: putting dollhouse scenes in my office. That's been a new
Speaker 1: thing in the past like six months that I've It's
Speaker 1: been an interest for a long time. And then I
Speaker 1: finally realized how I could just buy, Like I've found
Speaker 1: a place that has enough stuff that I can find
Speaker 1: stuff I want to put and you know, figuring out
Speaker 1: where I would put it. And it's just like things
Speaker 1: that make you feel like life is fun, life is cool.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't just have to be the bubble baths. Like, obviously,
Speaker 1: if you love bubble baths, take all the bubble baths
Speaker 1: you want. They don't need to take that long, you know,
Speaker 1: twenty minutes that can no matter what's going on in life.
Speaker 1: You could probably find twenty minutes somewhere to take a
Speaker 1: bubble bath if that's what you want to do. But
Speaker 1: I think I would challenge people to really commit yourself
Speaker 1: to a hobby you are very into, or anything along
Speaker 1: those lines that would upgrade your daily existence and make
Speaker 1: you feel like life is awesome.
Speaker 2: And I like what you said about like having no
Speaker 2: reason to do it other than you find it fun.
Speaker 2: I mean, I was thinking about that on my run
Speaker 2: this morning. I'm like, this is so silly, and yet
Speaker 2: who cares because I find it fun and I only
Speaker 2: get to live once.
Speaker 1: So whatever, enjoy your life, right, That's what being your
Speaker 1: own Valentine really means. Well, moving on to the question section,
Speaker 1: I will read this since I think it was meant
Speaker 1: for Sarah that I can chime in with slight additions
Speaker 1: at the end. But this person writes in that you
Speaker 1: would like to know more about your daily planning of
Speaker 1: five to ten minutes so every morning, as those who
Speaker 1: listen to our Morning Routine episode a few weeks ago,
Speaker 1: Sarah does a little bit of daily planning each morning
Speaker 1: as part of for morning routine. So she said, what
Speaker 1: questions do you ask yourself? What does that five to
Speaker 1: ten minutes actually look like? So maybe you could say
Speaker 1: exactly what you are doing in that five to ten
Speaker 1: minutes Sarah.
Speaker 2: Yes, and don't sell yourself short. She specifically said she
Speaker 2: wanted to hear Laura's daily planning too. So here you go, Alana,
Speaker 2: this this is for you. So I it's very early.
Speaker 2: I got my coffee and I pull out my planner
Speaker 2: and I kind of like set up my little day
Speaker 2: template that I write in my home anichi, kind of
Speaker 2: like put my basic schedule stuff in there. The way
Speaker 2: I do that is I look at my weekly schedule,
Speaker 2: which is also instead homeinnichi. So I am kind of
Speaker 2: flipping back and forth a little bit. I scan that
Speaker 2: day's entry. So sometimes I've already kind of assigned myself
Speaker 2: something like, oh, you know, you have to turn in
Speaker 2: a Bestlaid Plans episode that day, so that's like an
Speaker 2: automatic I'm going to be doing that that day. Other
Speaker 2: times there's nothing assigned, but I might have like specific
Speaker 2: obligations scheduled based on different hours. So again, many people
Speaker 2: do this digitally minds on paper. So I look at that,
Speaker 2: and then I also look at my task list for
Speaker 2: the week, which is actually on the same layout.
Speaker 3: It's just on the left.
Speaker 2: I kind of list all kinds of stuff that I'm
Speaker 2: trying to get moved forward on during that week. So
Speaker 2: by looking at the day's list, I can see what's urgent,
Speaker 2: what's happening, and then I can think, eh, do I
Speaker 2: have room to add any of these like additional week
Speaker 2: type tasks, And then I don't know. My brain kind
Speaker 2: of synthesizes that, and then in the Hobannici I draw
Speaker 2: out my little daily layout to kind of show when
Speaker 2: I'm occupied, and then on the right I make my
Speaker 2: task list, trying to keep in mind, again if I
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of time where I'm not occupied,
Speaker 2: I probably can't put a lot of things on the list,
Speaker 2: and then that probably takes about five to ten minutes.
Speaker 2: Do I always get everything done in a given day.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. But I like having a menu of suggestions
Speaker 2: to at least start from. And I'd say if I
Speaker 2: get through fifty to seventy percent of what I have
Speaker 2: laid out for myself, I'm pretty happy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a side.
Speaker 1: This listener wrote that every time she listens to us,
Speaker 1: so she references us in our household as the besties
Speaker 1: that live on the street, which I love, Like, we
Speaker 1: want to be your besties who live up the streets.
Speaker 3: So I'm embracing that.
Speaker 1: So I plan my weeks on Thursday or Friday and
Speaker 1: list out what needs to happen professionally and personally, and
Speaker 1: then as I'm going through the week, usually the day before,
Speaker 1: I will list out what I need to do the
Speaker 1: next day.
Speaker 3: And it doesn't always have it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I do this when I start my work day,
Speaker 1: but I try to do it the day before just
Speaker 1: so I get a general sense of what I need
Speaker 1: to start with, and if there's anything that's sort of
Speaker 1: hard landscape in the day, I can block that in
Speaker 1: and figure it around it. If it is a very
Speaker 1: busy day, I definitely need to do it the day
Speaker 1: before to figure out how to fit all the pieces in.
Speaker 1: If it's not so busy a day, sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: little bit more free form. I might have one big
Speaker 1: goal for the day, like edit this chapter or you know,
Speaker 1: write all this stuff, and that kind of happens as
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. I generally do some of the
Speaker 1: little daily stuff that I have to do first, since
Speaker 1: I'm more likely to get interrupted between about eight and
Speaker 1: nine am, when kids are still getting out the door,
Speaker 1: so I tend to start with the interruptible stuff, which
Speaker 1: would be flogging posting the next day's vander Hack over there.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I forget to do that, then I need to
Speaker 1: post today is vander Hack. You know, it's the problem
Speaker 1: of a daily newsletter. Sometimes like oh, yeah, it's another
Speaker 1: day again. I guess I should have done that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's generally when it happens, and I aim to only
Speaker 1: put something on the list for the day if I'm
Speaker 1: going to do it. And I know that Sarah and
Speaker 1: I have a slight different feeling about this, but I'm
Speaker 1: sort of like, I don't want to put it on there.
Speaker 3: And then not do it and feel bad about it.
Speaker 1: So I'd rather only put it on it if I
Speaker 1: am truly committing to do it, which means that the
Speaker 1: list has to be short like. It can't be long, like,
Speaker 1: it can't have multiple things that won't possibly fit in
Speaker 1: that time that I have available, because then I'm not
Speaker 1: going to do them, and then I feel like, well,
Speaker 1: why did I even put that there? So generally it
Speaker 1: is only the things I plan to do short and
Speaker 1: if I finish, which happens right like, I might be
Speaker 1: done with all of this at two o'clock, then I
Speaker 1: can go pick some other stuff, right like, there's a
Speaker 1: long list of possibilities that one could busy your time with,
Speaker 1: So I can go find some other work. That's fine,
Speaker 1: but I'd rather make that decision at two o'clock rather
Speaker 1: than assign myself more than I might handle.
Speaker 2: Or you can have self care time, self.
Speaker 1: Care time, that's true, and just go get another cup
Speaker 1: of coffee and sit in the living room again, experience
Speaker 1: it a different time of day.
Speaker 3: That sounds very exciting.
Speaker 1: So let's well love of the week, so mine. I
Speaker 1: have a very mixed relationship with YouTube because one of
Speaker 1: my children has had to have YouTube privileges provoked for
Speaker 1: the time being. So I know there's plenty of wretchedly
Speaker 1: bad stuff on YouTube. However, there's also some very good stuff.
Speaker 1: I guess it's because of the nature of life, and
Speaker 1: there's good stuff and there's bad stuff.
Speaker 3: This is humanity. And I have been listening to most
Speaker 3: of my works of Bach through YouTube.
Speaker 1: I thought I would do it on Apple Music, but
Speaker 1: oftentimes the whole recording it's hard to get a whole
Speaker 1: recording of like multiple pieces together, and they might have
Speaker 1: split them into like here's the sinfonia and here's the
Speaker 1: corral and here's the aria in a cantato. I want
Speaker 1: to listen to the whole twenty five minute thing in
Speaker 1: a row. But there are lots of performances on YouTube.
Speaker 1: So I've been doing most of it just listening to
Speaker 1: a performance that has been posted on YouTube, and so
Speaker 1: that's just a much more convenient way to listen to it.
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of cool because there are like
Speaker 1: any given BWV number you know of, Bach has a
Speaker 1: thousand of them. There's a performance of it somewhere on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Somebody in the world performed it, recorded it, put it
Speaker 1: up there and so I can watch it and it's great.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. It's actually amazing. Think about how like your
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties self would have conceived of that, like.
Speaker 1: Not have done they I could not have done this
Speaker 1: project then, I mean because there you wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: able to get the recordings of all of these.
Speaker 3: I mean it's just like yeah, or obscure ones love it.
Speaker 2: Well, mine is going to be following professional running a
Speaker 2: little bit more than I have before. I really enjoyed well,
Speaker 2: a few weeks prior to when this air is watching
Speaker 2: the Olympics marathon trials, which were in my home state.
Speaker 2: So that was super fun, Like I actually watched it
Speaker 2: on TV. I have like a very low number of
Speaker 2: hours in my life spent watching live sports, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: this is actually really cool. So a love for that
Speaker 2: and then a future love I think is going to
Speaker 2: be the Olympics, Like I cannot wait. I'm going to
Speaker 2: like super lean into it and with the kids too,
Speaker 2: I think so exciting, Like I found my brand of
Speaker 2: pro sports that I enjoy.
Speaker 1: Paris twenty twenty four all into it, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking
Speaker 1: all things quality time, how you can spend one on
Speaker 1: one time with your partner, your kids, and then how
Speaker 1: to be your own Valentine. I'm going to use that
Speaker 1: phrase even though we are after Valentine's Day, how you
Speaker 1: can show yourself some love as well. So we will
Speaker 1: be back next week with more on making work and
Speaker 1: life fitting out there.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
Speaker 2: and you can.
Speaker 1: Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has
Speaker 1: been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us
Speaker 1: next time for more on making work and life work together.