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Speaker 1: Hey, Matt, have you ever felt, you know, just like

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Speaker 1: weirdly tired always? You know, it's just always vibe.

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Speaker 2: That's that's my standard feeling throughout the day.

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Speaker 1: So, uh, I guess it's cool to have feel It's

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Speaker 1: uh not til long ago. In a previous Classic episode,

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Speaker 1: you pointed out that the phrase UAP has been around

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Speaker 1: for five years now, and it made me think a

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Speaker 1: little bit about age. What if there was a way

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Speaker 1: to mitigate the inevitable uh grind of time. What if

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Speaker 1: you could just take some blood from someone younger and

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Speaker 1: you know, get rid of that tired feeling.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Illuminati, I'm out of here, and.

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Speaker 1: We hope that you are in for today's classic episode,

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Speaker 1: The Modern Vampire. It's a true story. Uh. There have

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Speaker 1: been extensive experiments in the modern day with plasma transfusion

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Speaker 1: in a way that is ethically fraught and riddled with conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.

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Speaker 1: Name is Ben. Our compatriot nol is traveling at the moment,

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Speaker 1: but we'll be back soon. We are joined with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul Deckin. Most importantly, you are you, and

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Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know? Matt,

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Speaker 1: I propose we begin this episode with a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a peak behind the curtain.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: So for the past gosh to two months almost, Matt

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Speaker 1: and Noel and I have been kicking the can down

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Speaker 1: the road regarding a very interesting email we receive about

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Speaker 1: the Georgia guidestones. And every episode we have told each

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Speaker 1: other we're going to read this in a shout out

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Speaker 1: corner at the end of the show. And we've just been,

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Speaker 1: you know, so much like a dog chasing a ball

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Speaker 1: that by the time we get to the end of

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Speaker 1: an episode, we've we've found that we don't have room

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Speaker 1: to squeeze this in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're gonna instead of squeezing it in, we're

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Speaker 2: just going to place it in front of you, right

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Speaker 2: here in front of this podcast.

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Speaker 1: So let's consider this an oddly placed shout out corner.

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Speaker 2: The message says, greetings, Ben, Matt Knowle. This email is

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Speaker 2: in regards to the stuff they Don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Podcast episode titled Who built the Georgia Guidestones, published eighteenth

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Speaker 2: of November twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: We got there, We got to it eventually, We.

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Speaker 2: Did it, says. Firstly, there were several pieces of information

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Speaker 2: left out from your discussions on the topic, and this

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Speaker 2: is a much longer email than we are going to

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Speaker 2: read now. We are reading one piece of it that

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Speaker 2: was most compelling to us, It says. The identity of

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Speaker 2: RC Christian has since been revealed to be that of

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Speaker 2: one Herbert Hinney Hnie Kirsten, a doctor from Fort Dodge, Iowa.

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Speaker 2: This was first reported in the documentary film Dark Clouds

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Speaker 2: Over Elberton by Chris Pinto. It is also reported that

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Speaker 2: Kirsten was a supporter of David Duke, the former Grand

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Speaker 2: Wizard of the Knights of the klu Klux Klan and

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Speaker 2: proponent of eugenics. He was apparently aided by a friend

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Speaker 2: of his, Robert Merriman, who helped publish the Common Sense

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Speaker 2: Renewed book, the one that we mentioned in that episode,

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Speaker 2: A Whole Bunch, and we actually have a copy of

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Speaker 2: and it was written this is written to us by

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Speaker 2: quote a guide to the.

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Speaker 1: End, and we thought this was we thought this was

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Speaker 1: fantastic well, at least it's a fantastic lead on the

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Speaker 1: true identity of RC Christian. At this point, it has

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Speaker 1: not been conclusively proven. Not everybody agrees that this is

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Speaker 1: indeed Herbert Hinney Kirsten or Herbert Heinie Kirsten. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's Hinny. I think it's Anny, Matt. This has

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Speaker 1: not been conclusively proven in a way that everybody accepts.

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Speaker 1: But this is one of the most recent arguments for

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Speaker 1: the true identity of RC Christian. If you'd like to

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Speaker 1: learn more, please check out the documentary Dark Clouds over Elberton,

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Speaker 1: as well as the fantastic documentary that Matt put together.

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Speaker 2: Now that we put together.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but it's available on Amazon for free, just search

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Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, Echeton Secret is out the name of

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Speaker 1: our take on it, and maybe one day we'll just

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Speaker 1: get it on YouTube as well. Agreed, we should do that,

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Speaker 1: And this concludes our oddly place onto the show. Let's

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Speaker 1: get let's get creepy. Let's get creepy immediately. Okay, Oh,

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Speaker 1: there's a creepy voice, Matt. We've all heard myths about vampires, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: some form of a vampire legend exists on every continent,

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Speaker 1: with the possible exception of Antarctica. There's the typical Dracula

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Speaker 1: type vampire that's possibly the most familiar type of vampire

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Speaker 1: here in the West, but there are other creatures as well,

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Speaker 1: like the swan and the Philippines, or the lamia in

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Speaker 1: Grecian folklore.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bloodsuckers, beings that exist on the sanguine delights of

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Speaker 2: other beings.

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Speaker 1: That's a great that's a great description.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it's really tough to trace the beginnings

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Speaker 2: of this myth of what a vampire is, what it

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Speaker 2: was before it became a capital v vampire that's in

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Speaker 2: movies and pop culture, and from demons to Dracula, the

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Speaker 2: creation of the modern vampire myth. The author Matthew Beresford notes, quote,

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Speaker 2: there are clear foundations for the vampire and the ancient world,

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Speaker 2: and it is impossible to prove when the myth first arose.

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Speaker 2: There are suggestions that the vampire was born out of

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Speaker 2: sorcery and ancient Egypt, a demon summoned into this world

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Speaker 2: from some other.

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Speaker 1: Right other being, some other playing some other dimension. In

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Speaker 1: earlier episodes, we explored the possible origins of the vampire myth,

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Speaker 1: by which we mean the possible real world seeds of

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Speaker 1: truth that later grew into this agglomeration of folklore. And

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Speaker 1: this includes proposed causes such as premature burial, which was

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Speaker 1: horrifically common for a very very long time, also conditions

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Speaker 1: medical conditions like porphyria or dementia and so on. And

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Speaker 1: you can again find those episodes, both video and audio

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Speaker 1: at our website. Stuff they don't want you to know

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Speaker 1: dot com on what you're using to listen to this,

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Speaker 1: oh yes, or on whatever feed you prefer. We should

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Speaker 1: be out there and tell us if you can't find

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Speaker 1: us on your preferred feed. But today we are asking

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Speaker 1: a more topical question. We're not asking whether something like

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Speaker 1: a vampire ever existed, or even if something like a

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Speaker 1: vampire currently exists. Instead, we're asking whether it is possible

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Speaker 1: to create vampires or something like them. Not characters in fiction,

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Speaker 1: friends and neighbors and you're monsters on the silver screen.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about real life vampires.

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Speaker 2: Again, someone something that exists on the blood of others.

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Speaker 2: And this concept of vampirism has become so prevalent in

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Speaker 2: our worlds nowadays it's been used as an insult. You

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Speaker 2: vampire can get out in the light, you vampire or

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Speaker 2: a piece of a probrium to heap him upon all

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Speaker 2: kinds of let's say, all two human rosters, right, yeah, you'll.

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Speaker 1: Hear a probrium is a word for reproacher or insult.

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Speaker 1: You'll hear this used to refer to certain serial killers

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Speaker 1: in the past, you know, the vampire of so and so.

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Speaker 1: And you'll also, of course hear it used to describe

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Speaker 1: a lot of ancient aristocrats. Of course. The legendary Lad

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Speaker 1: Tepesh is often cited as the inspiration for ram Stoker's Dracula,

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Speaker 1: and he was a prince of a place called Wallachia

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Speaker 1: three different times between fourteen forty eight and his death.

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Speaker 1: He was the second son of someone named Vlad Dracoul

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Speaker 1: or Vlad the Dragon, who was the ruler of Wallachia

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Speaker 1: in fourteen thirty six. Lewis father was known as Dracula

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Speaker 1: the Dragon. He flat Tepesh, Lad the Third, was the

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Speaker 1: more notorious of the two. He was known as the

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Speaker 1: Impaler for his habit of impaling his enemies, rivals, or

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Speaker 1: just people who caught him on the wrong side of

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Speaker 1: bed in the morning. He'd have these large wooden stakes

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Speaker 1: erected and then graphic warning. Here he would have their

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Speaker 1: bodies forced on the stakes, the stakes going through their

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Speaker 1: anuses and impaling him that way. He was also infamous

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Speaker 1: for casually dining as he watched these people die a

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Speaker 1: very slow, grisly painful death.

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Speaker 2: So in a way he did get by through the

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Speaker 2: blood of others, in a very dark way.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, and in a experiential rather than a physiological

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Speaker 1: way perhaps, which is I don't know, that's a dangerous

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Speaker 1: comparison because if we engage in that comparison, we get

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Speaker 1: to slippery slope where we could argue that all warlords

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Speaker 1: or even politicians who are in charge of militaries subsist

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Speaker 1: to a degree on the blood of others.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that slope is that slippery.

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Speaker 1: I think we might already have slipped. There's another example,

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Speaker 1: which is Elizabeth Bathri or Erzbett Bathory, the noble woman

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Speaker 1: who is based in what is now known as Slovakia.

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Speaker 1: In the sixteen hundred, she was arrested and accused of

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Speaker 1: numerous macab crimes. We have just a few examples of

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Speaker 1: those alleged crimes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she would keep her well. Allegedly, she would keep

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Speaker 2: her servants chained up every night, so their hands were

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Speaker 2: just so tightly bound that they would turn blue and

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Speaker 2: sometimes even squirt blood out of them. She used to

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Speaker 2: beat her servants to the point that there was so

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Speaker 2: much blood all over the place, on the walls, on

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Speaker 2: the beds, they had to use ashes and cinders to

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Speaker 2: soak it all up and scrub it all away. She

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Speaker 2: even burned her sir with metal sticks allegedly red hot

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Speaker 2: keys and coins. She ironed the soles of their feet

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Speaker 2: and even stuck burning rods into their vaginas.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and she didn't stop there with stabbing. She also

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Speaker 1: pricked them in their mouths and fingernails with needles, cut

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Speaker 1: their hands, lips and noses, shoes, knives, needles, candles, occasionally

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Speaker 1: her own teeth to lacerate the genitals of servants, stitch

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Speaker 1: their lips and tongues together, made them sit on stinging nettles,

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Speaker 1: bathe with the nettles, force them to cook and eat

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Speaker 1: their own flesh, or make sausages from it and serve

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Speaker 1: it to the guests. She was accused of practicing dark magic,

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Speaker 1: baking magical poisonous cakes in order to kill rival politicians

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Speaker 1: such as George Thurzo, who was later one of the

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Speaker 1: guys who arrested her, was also she would cast magic

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Speaker 1: spells to summon clouds filled with angry cats.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 1: Most famously the most infamously, rather, she was believed to

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Speaker 1: have bled young servant girls dry, and after exsanguinating their

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Speaker 1: bodies or training all the blood from them, bathing in

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Speaker 1: that blood.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and that's probably where you've most likely heard a

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Speaker 2: lot of these stories where she is the she's a

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Speaker 2: whole other archetype in a way of things beyond a vampire,

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Speaker 2: just having to do with bathing in the blood.

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Speaker 1: Right, and this was characterized as part of a right

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Speaker 1: or a ritual that would lengthen her lifespan and rejuvenate

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Speaker 1: her history has to a degree exonerated Bathory of some

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Speaker 1: of these accusations. At the time of the trial, over

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Speaker 1: three hundred individuals testified against her for one thing or another,

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Speaker 1: and her servants were put to Four of her servants

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Speaker 1: were put to gruesome ends, but given the influence that

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Speaker 1: she had in society at the time, she was not killed.

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Speaker 1: She was immured I M m U r ed, which

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Speaker 1: means they grounded her for the rest of her life. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: they put her in a windowless room, she was supplied

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Speaker 1: with food and water, and she was left there to die.

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Speaker 1: But it looks like it looks like there's some problems

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Speaker 1: with the claims. Most immediately, the whole idea of bathing

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Speaker 1: in virgin blood. First, that idea came about centuries after

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Speaker 1: her death. Someone added that to the story to the

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Speaker 1: campfire tail.

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Speaker 2: That's an issue.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that she didn't do horrible things, just

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Speaker 1: means that came along much later. Also, from a scientific perspective,

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Speaker 1: it's most likely impossible for her to quote bathe and

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Speaker 1: virgin blood due to coagulation. How would you keep the

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Speaker 1: blood liquid long enough were there to be an entire

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Speaker 1: tub of it?

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Speaker 2: Interesting, I guess it would be in the how you

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Speaker 2: got the blood.

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Speaker 1: Out right right and ambient temperature and so on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so god, yeah, we're getting grizzly pretty quickly in this one.

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Speaker 1: So it's also possible that Bathory was targeted by the

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Speaker 1: male dominated establishment at the time because vilification or demonization

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Speaker 1: of women was a common way of removing them from

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Speaker 1: the political chessboard. This happened in witch hunts, you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of times. One thing that escapes. Historical explanations

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Speaker 1: of the witch hunt phenomenon is the following in certain

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Speaker 1: practices in the inquisition, in certain non inquisition which hunts

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Speaker 1: the accuser, the person who put the witch to trial,

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Speaker 1: who is almost always convicted in one way or the other,

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Speaker 1: they would receive the wealth of the estate, so they

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Speaker 1: were not objective in their accusations. They were incentivized or incented,

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Speaker 1: whichever word you prefer, to arrive at a guilty verdict.

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Speaker 1: So it's quite possible that this was a political hit.

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Speaker 1: But we say all this because whether or not the

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Speaker 1: legend is whether or not the legend is true, it

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Speaker 1: is something iconic. It is an image that is stayed

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Speaker 1: with us, you me, probably everyone you know has heard

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Speaker 1: of these grizzly stories about the elites of the world

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Speaker 1: subsisting on the blood of the innocent and typically the oppressed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean metaphorically, there's no bones about it. It

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Speaker 2: kind of is true metaphorically.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, And so the question literally, then our conclusion becomes,

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Speaker 1: that's it, right. Vampirism is largely a myth.

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Speaker 2: And allegory of sorts.

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Speaker 1: Right, Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 2: There may be more to this whole blood and vampirism

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Speaker 2: thing than we had initially believed, or at least some

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Speaker 2: aspect of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for decades, it turns out, scientists have been experimenting

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Speaker 1: with the idea of transfusing blood from younger organisms to

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Speaker 1: older organisms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what happens when we put this young blood in here?

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, that's a part of the evil.

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Speaker 2: Laugh.

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean it sounds sinister.

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Speaker 2: But.

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Speaker 1: It's It's true. And you have to wonder sometimes how

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Speaker 1: much of this research starts from an informed place, and

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Speaker 1: how much of it starts with someone going, you know

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Speaker 1: what I wonder? I wonder hear me out, guys. I

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Speaker 1: have this picture of I have this picture of you

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Speaker 1: and Paul and Matt Nol and I listeners. I have

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Speaker 1: this picture of us all sitting around the table and saying,

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Speaker 1: what will our next experiment be? And then someone like

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Speaker 1: you just did, Matt goes, Uh, guys, hear me out.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of mice. Yeah, and that's where

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Speaker 1: they started. Uh. They scientists began transfusing blood from young

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Speaker 1: mice into the bodies of old mice. And as it

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Speaker 1: turned out, this was not just some weird thing for

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Speaker 1: math scientists to do.

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Speaker 2: For kicks.

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Speaker 1: It all goes back to something called parabiosis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This is one hundred and fifty year old surgical

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Speaker 2: technique that unites the vasculature of the veins and the arteries,

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Speaker 2: the blood systems essentially of two living animals. And the

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Speaker 2: word actually comes from the Greek para, meaning alongside in

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Speaker 2: bios life. So you have two organisms that you've essentially

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Speaker 2: created conjoined twins out.

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Speaker 1: Of Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're animals that share a placenta

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Speaker 1: in a womb. This, Yeah, parabiosis does occur in nature,

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Speaker 1: as with the example that Matt's sided can join twins

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Speaker 1: would probably be the most well known example. But we

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Speaker 1: we be in the human species, learned that we could

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Speaker 1: do this artificially. And here's the huge plot twist, not

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Speaker 1: always automatically killing the living things we stitched together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: human centipede staff, Well, not quite right, right, Sorry, you're right,

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Speaker 1: you're right, Matt, they're.

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Speaker 2: Not that's a digestive system or.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's exactly right. No, this would just be circulatory

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Speaker 1: system and a lot less gross, but still gross. In

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Speaker 1: the lab, you see, parabiosis gives experts a tremendously rare

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Speaker 1: opportunity to test what factors in the blood in the

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Speaker 1: circulatory system of one animal do when they enter another animal.

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Speaker 2: A question I've always asked myself.

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Speaker 1: I know, sometimes out loud during meetings.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what happens if my blood was your blood and

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Speaker 2: your blood was my blood?

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Speaker 1: You know people can hear you when you do that, right?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Really?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Oh yes, that's why Noel's not here for this episode.

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Speaker 1: I think maybe you should just get a creative outlet,

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Speaker 1: like write poetry or essays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to pick up a guitar, I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get into some dark metal. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: could create dark power ballads about these experiments. Because experiments

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Speaker 1: with these rodent pairs, whether rats or mice or what

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Speaker 1: have you, have led to immensely important breakthroughs in indo chronology,

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Speaker 1: tumor biology, immunology, and so on. But here's a curious thing, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Most of those discoveries occurred more than thirty five years ago.

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Speaker 1: The technique, for some unknown reason, fell out of favor

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, and.

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Speaker 2: That's so weird.

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Speaker 1: Well, we did a lot of digging, and we still

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Speaker 1: can't We still can't find out what happened in the seventies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think most of it is just the EWW factor.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: In the past few years, however, a couple of laps

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Speaker 1: relatively small number, have revived the practice of artificial parabiosis,

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Speaker 1: especially in the field of age research or aging, because

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Speaker 1: it turns out that by joining the circulatory system of

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Speaker 1: an old mouse to that of a young mouse, scientists

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Speaker 1: can produce some remarkable things, which already just sounds so

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Speaker 1: problematic and spooky to me. But what do they find?

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Speaker 2: Well in the hot brain muscles, in almost every other

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Speaker 2: tissue examined, the blood of young mice seems to bring

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Speaker 2: new life into aging organs, making own mice stronger, smarter,

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Speaker 2: and healthier. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even without the voice that's troubling.

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Speaker 2: It does good things to the old mice.

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Speaker 1: Right, and it even makes their fur shinier.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm sold now.

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Speaker 1: Now, these labs have begun to identify the components in

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Speaker 1: this quote unquote young blood that are responsible for these changes.

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Speaker 1: Nice exact ample. A biochemist and gerontologist named Clive McKay,

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Speaker 1: based in Cornell University up there in Mythica, New York,

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Speaker 1: was the first individual to apply PERO biosis to the

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Speaker 1: study of aging. In nineteen fifty six, he and his

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Speaker 1: team joined sixty nine pairs of rats together in Pero biosies.

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Speaker 1: They stitched them up together so that their circulatory systems

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Speaker 1: were in contact, forming a larger circuit, and the linked

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Speaker 1: rats included, you know, they all had those differing age ranges.

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Speaker 1: So one pair was made up of a sixteen month

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Speaker 1: old rat and a one point five month old rat.

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Speaker 1: In human terms, that's the same thing as sowing a

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Speaker 1: forty seven year old person to a five year old child.

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Speaker 2: And here's the deal. When you attach a forty seven

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Speaker 2: year old through the circulatory system to a five year

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Speaker 2: old sometimes it always doesn't go well well from a

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Speaker 2: psychology standpoint of the rats. So here's a quote from

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Speaker 2: the authors who worked on this study. If two rats

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Speaker 2: are not adjusted to each other, one will chew the

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Speaker 2: head of the other until it is destroyed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a quotation from the author's description of their work.

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Speaker 1: Of this was a pretty experiment because rats are highly

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Speaker 1: intelligent animals, right, and obviously smart enough to know that

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Speaker 1: something is not normal if they are stitched up to

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Speaker 1: another individual, especially if they are not acclimated to that individual. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you woke up and you were sewn to a stranger,

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Speaker 1: you would have some questions, some concerns. You probably would

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Speaker 1: not be chill about it. So they also found that

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Speaker 1: there was a trumble bling phenomenon they couldn't explain at

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Speaker 1: the time. Back in the fifties. Of the sixty nine

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Speaker 1: rodents that they paired together, eleven pairs died from a

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Speaker 1: mysterious condition they called parabiotic disease that occurred. This occurred

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Speaker 1: about one to two weeks after the partners were joined,

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Speaker 1: and it was probably a form of tissue rejection. You're

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Speaker 1: one body going, what the heck is this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely well, because in this case you are transferring

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Speaker 2: all of the blood. You're not taking out a component

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Speaker 2: of the blood as we're going to see maybe in

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Speaker 2: the future. Here as we're moving on, you're getting everything.

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Speaker 1: Excellent point. This is not a transfusion. This is the

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Speaker 1: This is compiling or mixtaping to separate circulatory systems.

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Speaker 2: So, in McKay's first parabiotic aging experiment, after the old

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Speaker 2: and young recks were joined from anywhere from nine months

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Speaker 2: to eighteen months, they found in you know, the one

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Speaker 2: positive thing that seemed to come out of this. The

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Speaker 2: older animal's bones became similar in weight and density to

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Speaker 2: the bones of the younger counterparts that they were attached to.

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Speaker 2: So it did seem like there is something going on

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Speaker 2: here in at least most in this case of the

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Speaker 2: cases of the pairs, some kind of beneficial thing for

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Speaker 2: the older rats, not necessarily for the younger rats. There's

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Speaker 2: not really much of a benefit at all.

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Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. It doesn't seem like there is, because

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Speaker 1: it's not as if the young rats somehow gain the

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Speaker 1: wisdom and experience, right. What seems to happen in the

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Speaker 1: ideal case is that they enter into a type of

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Speaker 1: symbiosis called commensalism. There are three types of symbiosis. Symbiosis

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Speaker 1: just means a close relationship between two or more species, right.

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Speaker 1: The three types are mutualism, where both both parties benefit

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Speaker 1: or all parties benefit, parasitism where one benefits at the

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Speaker 1: expense of the other, and commensalism, where one species benefits

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Speaker 1: somehow and the other species is neither harmed nor helped. Arguably,

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Speaker 1: this is on the line between commensalism and parasitism, because

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Speaker 1: while the younger animal is not necessarily being directly harmed.

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Speaker 1: Its life is going to be hindered. Yeah, because it's

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Attached to this forty seven year old mouse. It's like

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Speaker 2: six months, well year old mouse. Your music is just

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Speaker 2: really I don't understand it. I don't know why we're

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Speaker 2: watching this on TV. Let's watch Soldies.

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Speaker 1: So let's fast forward. Yeah, let's get through the seventies,

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Speaker 1: where again this research mysteriously fell out of favor. A

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Speaker 1: few years back, a team of researchers Amy Wager, Irena

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Speaker 1: and Michael Convoy and Thomas Rando partnered up. They've vultroned

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Speaker 1: up to take their separate areas of research in this

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Speaker 1: field and combine them to investigate the phenomenon. Specifically, this

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Speaker 1: group wanted to address a problem with the study of

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Speaker 1: agent with gerontology as a whole. And here's where we

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Speaker 1: are now. It seems as if aging itself is a

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Speaker 1: body wide effect, right nor your body tends to break

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Speaker 1: down sort of. At the same time, there are environmental

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Speaker 1: things that can that can affect you. For instance, you

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Speaker 1: will take more damage depending on how you treat yourself

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Speaker 1: if you do if you are an athlete and you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of repetitive exercises, right, then you may

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Speaker 1: have concussions, or you may have joint problems that might

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Speaker 1: not have appeared in the same way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, even if you're just walking around all the time,

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Speaker 2: your joints in your knees aren't going to be the

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Speaker 2: same as perhaps the joints in your shoulder if you

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Speaker 2: aren't very active with your shoulder. Agreed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, good point. And the problem is that they

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Speaker 1: wanted to They wanted to see if they could determine

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Speaker 1: what coordinates the aging process. In the words of Rando,

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Speaker 1: why does everything in your body go to hell in

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Speaker 1: a hand basket at once? Why does this affect multiple

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Speaker 1: parts of the body simultaneously. So they tried these experiments again,

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Speaker 1: and they took some lessons learned from the earlier experiments

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Speaker 1: in the fifties, So they made sure the mice or

434
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: the rodents knew each other before they sewed them together.

435
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: Wow.

436
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: And Thomas Rando says that he did not expect the

437
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: experiment to work, but it did within five weeks. He said,

438
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: the young blood restored muscle and liver cells in the

439
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: older mice, notably by causing aged stem cells to start

440
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: dividing again. They also found that young blood resulted in

441
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: enhanced growth of brain cells in old mice, although that

442
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: work was left out of their two thousand and five

443
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: paper that described the results. All in all, the results

444
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: suggested that blood was the medium of transportation for whatever

445
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: the mystery factor or factor was that coordinated aging in

446
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: different tissues, which makes sense because blood is a very

447
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: well traveled substance in the human body. In two thousand

448
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: and eight, the convoys uh Irena and Michael linked muscle

449
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: rejuvenation to the activation of something called notch signaling, which

450
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: promotes cell division, or, to be more technically accurate, it's

451
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: the muscle rejuvenation is dependent upon the de activation of

452
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: the transforming growth factor pathway. That's what blocks cell division.

453
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, the group identified one of the age

454
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 1: defying factors circulating in the blood.

455
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's oxytocin. It's a hormone is best known

456
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: for its involvement in childbirth and bonding. We've discussed that

457
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: several times in.

458
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: Our how your Brain Betrays you when You're in love.

459
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, I did not mean to sound that bit.

460
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and already a drug approved by the FDA, the

461
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: Food and Drug Administration here in the United States. It's

462
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: it's approved for inducing labor and pregnant women. You wow,

463
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: I forget what it's called. Potocin. Potosin, I think is

464
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 2: what it's called. Yes, my wife didn't have to use it. Huh.

465
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. That's a good thing, right, you want the

466
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: minimum amount of yeah.

467
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: And chemicals going in during pregnancy. But it's used a

468
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: lot of times to induce I don't want, I want

469
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: to throw anyone under the bus here, but a lot

470
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 2: of times used to induce a labor when staff is

471
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: being changed out in a period, so that a new

472
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: nurse or a new set of people coming in don't

473
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: have to just pick up where the other whole crew left.

474
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: Off, okay, because they might not have the background knowledge

475
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: of the previous Yeah.

476
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that's not officially what it's used for,

477
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,239
Speaker 2: but if you're in a tight spot and you need

478
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: to get a baby out, it's also really.

479
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: Helpful and oxytocin. It turns out the levels of this

480
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: substance to climb with age and both men and women.

481
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: And when oxytocin is injected into older mice over a

482
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: systematic regimen or schedule, the hormone quickly within a couple

483
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: of weeks, regenerates muscles by activating muscle stem cells.

484
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: Wow.

485
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: And Wagers was following up on this anti aging work

486
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: at Harvard, where she started her own lab in two

487
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: thousand and four. She recruited the help of experts in

488
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: various organ systems to help her evaluate the specific impact

489
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: of young blood on the respective tissues of the organs.

490
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: We've got a couple of examples of her findings here.

491
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then she worked with Robin Franklin, who was a

492
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: neuroscientist at the University of Cambridge in the UK. They

493
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: kind of discovered that young blood promotes the repairing of

494
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: damaged spinal cords in older mice. So if you've got

495
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: I mean, that's huge. Yeah, there are a lot of

496
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: things that you could hopefully apply that to in humans.

497
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: If you can work that out in mice.

498
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: The implications of that are pretty astounding.

499
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: It's the implication, it's the implication.

500
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: There was another neuroscientist, Lee Rubin, with whom Wagers found

501
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: that young blood sparks the formation of new neurons in

502
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: the brain and old factory system again associate with smell.

503
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, huge, huge, if you can apply it and then

504
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: with cardiologist Richard Lee at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston,

505
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: mass she found that it reverses age related thickening of

506
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: the walls of the heart. Again, you've got heart, you've

507
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: got brain, you've got spinal cord. Huge improvements to the

508
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: lives of older people, older mice in this case, right possibly.

509
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: Now before before Matt and I begin to sound as

510
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: if we are telethon infomercial people shilling a new cure

511
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: to make your pet mouse live forever, must go to

512
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: the immediate question, which is the following. If this works

513
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: in mice, If these techniques work in mice, could we

514
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: rejuvenate aging humans by feeding them the blood of younger,

515
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: healthy humans. We'll tell you the answer, or at least

516
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: as far as modern medicine is gone publicly after a

517
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor.

518
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: As you listen to this episode and as we sit

519
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 2: in this room and record it, research is pushing all

520
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: of us in this direction, and it's threatening to collide

521
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: head on with what we understand about ethics and morality

522
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: in human experimentation, something that we've been doing since humans

523
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 2: could talk and move a scalpel around and or whatever

524
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: other implement has been used in the past. We've been

525
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: pushing these boundaries, and it seems like we're doing it again.

526
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: One of the most immediate aspects to consider here is

527
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: the power and influence of privately funded research or very

528
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: financially or socially powerful individuals who are aging and ailing

529
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: and interested and interested. Because one thing most people seem

530
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: to have in common thanatologists find people who study deathfind

531
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: is that no one wants to die.

532
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: Nope, it's you know.

533
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: People do at times, unfortunately and tragically take their own lives,

534
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: but by and large, humans are hardwired to want to

535
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: live for as long as possible, even in the worst

536
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: of circumstances. That's why there are so many of us

537
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: here today. For example, when a private firm based in

538
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: Hong Kong learned of this research, they moved immediately to

539
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: get in the game. It turns out they made this

540
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 1: move because the family who owned this corporate dynasty had

541
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: a prevalent history of Alzheimer's, and other private entities are

542
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: attempting to get in the game. There's one you may

543
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: have read about a few years back. Jesse Kremazen wants

544
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: he wants to bring this idea, this young blood to

545
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: the old transfusion treatment to the public with the creation

546
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: of a company called Ambrosia. Ambrusia purports to rejuvenate the

547
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: aging and well to do with injects of younger plasma.

548
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: Plasma is the essentially the liquid component of blood and.

549
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: The looks kind of yellow, right, it does.

550
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: And the plasma is what's stored at blood banks.

551
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and it's it's the stuff that has all

552
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: of the antibodies and all the really important stuff, all

553
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 2: the good stuff.

554
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, all the all the all the important stuff. Plasma

555
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: in this case is going to come from people aged

556
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty five. Currently, Ambrosia has two locations, both

557
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: of which I'm reading tea leaves about. But I am

558
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: making so many assumptions about this. So one location is

559
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, Yeah, and one's in Tampa, Tampa. So

560
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: here's what I'm wondering, And Matt, I bet you're wondering

561
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: the same thing. And we want to know your opinion, folks.

562
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: San Francisco kind of makes sense to me, home of

563
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: like water bars.

564
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 2: And oxygen bars and all. There we go.

565
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe there's a maybe there's a tech guru

566
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: aspect to this.

567
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 2: Right, got to get that edge.

568
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: However, and then in Tampa there's a what's the most

569
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: polite way to.

570
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 2: Say this, there's a ton of old people.

571
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, right on exactly, a significant percentage of the population

572
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: is retired.

573
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 2: That's what I said, all right, I think you.

574
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: I think you said it in a bit more evocative

575
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: and dare I say accurate way than I did?

576
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 2: It was concise.

577
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: It was concise. It's important to note here in the

578
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: case of Ambrosia that younger does not mean infants. We

579
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: said they're sixteen to twenty five. Don't worry. No one

580
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: is tossing toddlers into a juicer as far as we know.

581
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: Bad image, but necessary. You're necessary for us to say that.

582
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: Nor is this company at this point swing people together,

583
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: or you know, practicing parabiosis on humans.

584
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

585
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: Instead, they're offering, as Matt said, straight up transfusions.

586
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you want to get this done, you

587
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: can potentially. I can't. I don't think in this lifetime.

588
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll have to check with my accountant. Oh wait,

589
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: I don't have an accountant. All right, Well, no, I

590
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: can't do this. The pricing plans will enroll almost anybody

591
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: over thirty five years of age. The fees, though, are

592
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: totaling up to eight thousand dollars per person per I

593
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: don't know.

594
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: What you'd call it pop yeah, per transfusion, but right,

595
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: And they say that is covering the expense of the research,

596
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: covering the raw cost of retrieving, maintaining, transporting the plasma.

597
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: And it makes you wonder what happens to people in

598
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: those ten years between twenty five and thirty five. You're

599
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: too young to receive the treatment quote unquote treatment, you're

600
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: too old to donate. Just got to make it through

601
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: that decade long wilderness.

602
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, your blood is just in stasis too, I guess

603
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: according to research, just not really getting better. It's not

604
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: getting worse, just kind of hanging.

605
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: And ambrosia currently has it has had a lot of press,

606
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: and it obviously has a lot of people who believe

607
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: in it enough to at least give it a try,

608
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: but as quite a few critics. Critics are arguing that

609
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 1: the perobiosis experiments conducted on mice don't offer very much

610
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: insight into how a one time transfusion could affect a human.

611
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: So Wagers from earlier said that in our studies, circulation

612
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: between a young mouse and old mouse was maintained through

613
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: this parobiosis for nearly four weeks, almost a month.

614
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're doing this for an hour or so,

615
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: a couple hours maybe, right, I don't know.

616
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: Eight grand a pop. Additionally, ethicists are concerned that ambrosia

617
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: is that because ambrosia is being financed by the participants,

618
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: by the people who will receive these transfusions. I keep

619
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: I want to do like an arch sinister voice every

620
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: time I say young blood. Yeah, it's just such a

621
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 1: sinister Gary Oldman is Dracula phrase.

622
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 2: You know, you just have to do like a licking

623
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 2: of your lips sound after you say it.

624
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: That's all yield or yeah. But they're the ethical problem

625
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: with this, or one of the ethical problems is that

626
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 1: there are not straight up investors. So if we're talking

627
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: about people who are desperate to mitigate the delatorious effects

628
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: of aging, then they're going to have a very difficult

629
00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: time being objective about the results, especially when we in

630
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: the idea that the placebo effect does have measurable and

631
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: significant physiological impacts upon a human body.

632
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: Right yep, man, Well, so let's see where we are

633
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 2: at least as of December twenty sixteen. According to Ambrosia,

634
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: they've infused twenty five people with young blood so up

635
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: until December twenty sixteen. It is now into twenty eighteen,

636
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: so who knows, maybe that number has doubled. We don't

637
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: have notes from Ambrosia, but I'm sure we will get

638
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: them soon. So Carmezine claims that his participants are seeing

639
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 2: miraculous results, which is something you have to do when

640
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: you have a company that does something like this. Patient

641
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: with chronic fatigue syndrome, for example, quote feels healthy for

642
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: the first time and looks younger, which is nice. And

643
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: you know, these kind of antidotes will help, you know,

644
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: market the study at least and get more people involved

645
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 2: so we get more data. That can't be a bad thing.

646
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 2: But you know, it's not proof that the plasma infusions

647
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 2: actually work, and that would would be patients you know,

648
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: should believe these at all, at least go into it

649
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: thinking maybe this will work.

650
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: Right.

651
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

652
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: One of the reasons that drug approval moves so slowly

653
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: is that there well, aside from the endemic corruption in

654
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry and the medical medtech industry, typically on paper,

655
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 1: the reason why these things move so slowly is because

656
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: they're very important. They're literally putting people's lives in danger potentially,

657
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: so there are a lot of hoops to jump through,

658
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: and there should be quite a few hoops to jump through.

659
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: According to Jonathan Kimmelman, who is a bioethicist at McGill University,

660
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: there are a lot of patient funded trials run by

661
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: companies that use the trials as a way to sell

662
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: products that would not be marketable because they'd have to

663
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: be regulated by the FDA.

664
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: Yes, and speaking of a recent study concluded in November

665
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. It was done at the Stanford University School

666
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 2: of Medicine. It was a clinical trial looking at the safety, tolerability,

667
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: and feasibility of administering infusions, just what we've been talking

668
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: about with ambrosia love blood plasma from young donors to

669
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: participants with mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease. Again, very similar

670
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: thing that we're trying to treat here with young blood.

671
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: Different study, which is a good thing because now you've

672
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 2: got with multiple studies, if you're getting the same results,

673
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 2: then you're getting closer to, you know, actually doing what

674
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: a scientific experiment is supposed to do. This trial in particular,

675
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: was created to test a hypothesis put forth by this person,

676
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: Tony Weisskore. He is a doctor, he's a Stanford Professor

677
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 2: of neurology, and he's also a scientist at the Veterans

678
00:43:54,560 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: Affairs in Palo Alto anyway, in California. His research, he

679
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: did research with mice as well, and again found that

680
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: factors in the blood of young mice can rejuvenate the

681
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: brain tissue and improve cognitive performance in old mice. You

682
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: can even see a ted talk of him if you

683
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 2: want to. But anyway, in this one, it's again a company,

684
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: a private company that has at least a hand in

685
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: getting this research done and having this clinical trial put on.

686
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: It's called Alcahest and it quote holds intellectual property associated

687
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: with the treatment regimen for this particular trial. And the

688
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: Tony Weiss kay gentleman, who was not a part of

689
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: this experiment at least according to Stanford, he is the

690
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 2: co founder of this company and also the chair of

691
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 2: its scientific advisory board. So again you've got private interest

692
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: to carry out these kinds of trials to see if

693
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: there's anything to this young blood transfusion stuff.

694
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: Right, And we're all so seeing that a lot of

695
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: these studies or trials conducted have relatively small sample sizes.

696
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, in this one there were only eighteen human beings

697
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 2: that were transfused.

698
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: And this is the public state of affairs at the present. However,

699
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: there are clear and present dangers with this sort of

700
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: experimentation that go far above and way beyond something like

701
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: investor ethics and bureaucratic concerns. As we said, a transfusion

702
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: is not parabiosis. So at this point there's not a

703
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 1: solid load of widely accepted evidence that indicates any major

704
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: health benefits, and that leads critics of places like Ambrosia

705
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,399
Speaker 1: to claim they are only praying on the desperate. So far,

706
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,760
Speaker 1: we do not know if anyone is practicing human parabiosis.

707
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: In the past, there were certain grisly experiments that you

708
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: can hear about in little more depth in our Human

709
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: Experimentation series. In the past, there were experiments that approached

710
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: some stuff like this, But perhaps the most concise way

711
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: to describe those experiments is to say that the people

712
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 1: conducting the experiments were in no way concerned about the

713
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: benefits or even the survival rate. The benefits to or

714
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 1: the survival rate of their patients, in a better word,

715
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 1: for their patients would have been victims, because we were

716
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: talking about wartime experiments by people who were absolute lunatics.

717
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: Were there someone or some organization currently experimenting with human

718
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: parabiosis at this point, it would almost certainly be secret.

719
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: It would be classified because it would be seven shades

720
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: of illegal to do so if it's going on currently.

721
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 1: We would not know the age of the participants either,

722
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: which is another scary thing.

723
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 2: If it was done legally, though, they would have to

724
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 2: be over eighteen unless they had I guess permission from

725
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 2: their parents.

726
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if parents could sign up for that,

727
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: but yeah, legally, they would all have to be over

728
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: eighteen for some kind of consent to for informed consent

729
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: to occur within the US at least, yeah, legally legally, again,

730
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: legally for that to happen. If someone is experimenting with

731
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: human parabiosis, they're also running the risk of parabiosis disease,

732
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: which we mentioned earlier from those experiments in the nineteen fifties,

733
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: and the chances. Here's where we get. We go on

734
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: some disturbing breadcrumbs. You're ready, Okay, So, if we're experimenting,

735
00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:00,959
Speaker 1: if our species experimenting with human parabiosis currently, then there's

736
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: that risk.

737
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 2: Was it?

738
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,720
Speaker 1: Eleven of the sixty nine rap pairs right experienced parabiosis disease.

739
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: He just died after a little while fatal rejection.

740
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: The chances of this disease occurring are greatly reduced when

741
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: the participants are increasingly similar. For our purposes, when the

742
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: participants are increasingly related. So, next breadcrumb, what would your

743
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 1: closest relationship be for this experiment? What other individual would

744
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: create the highest chance of success in an experiment with parabiosis? Well,

745
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: one question. One might say a child, taking your own child.

746
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: One might say a sibling, But we have another We

747
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: have another field of technology that is moving at a

748
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 1: rapid pace. Now, what's closer than a sibling, closer than

749
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: a child, even closer than a fraternal twin?

750
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: A clone?

751
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: Spot on, Matt, A clone? Oh what? So imagine we've

752
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: talked about this before with the possibility of growing organs, right,

753
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: growing clones? Four spare organs? Would it be? Is there

754
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: a possible future where there would be a clone grown

755
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: to act as a filter for your blood that's younger

756
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: than you, that is just kept somewhere and you just

757
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: plug up to it.

758
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 2: Maybe when you hit a certain age, you have a

759
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 2: bunch of your genetic material put away in a vault somewhere,

760
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: and then that's used to begin creating clones of you

761
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 2: at another certain age, or maybe once you hit that age,

762
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: like let's say eighteen or so, then you just continuously

763
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 2: throughout the rest of your life, once you hit thirty five,

764
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 2: use these clones to be attached to you for a

765
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: little while.

766
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: And there's so little published science on this. There are

767
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: absolutely no long term studies, no longitudinal studies of the

768
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: nature of this effect. Like, what if someone begins engaging

769
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: in some sort of thing like this, let's say, for

770
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: the sake of argument, actual parabiosis, right, and let's say

771
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: for months every year or ever, Yeah, for month every

772
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: year something, they're stitched next to some source of young blood.

773
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: And what happens to that? What does their body look

774
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 1: like physiologically when they are sixty five, when they are

775
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: seventy five? You know, how long does this go? No

776
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: one knows. No one knows because it's unless you're very careful.

777
00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: It's evil to do that kind of experimentation. Additionally, this

778
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: is even weirder. This is not as scary, but it

779
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: is weird. Evidence indicates that injecting human blood plasma into

780
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 1: the bodies of elderly mice might have beneficial effects on

781
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 1: the mice.

782
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 2: Hold on, putting human plasma into a mouse helps the mouse.

783
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: That's what it seems to say. There's an article about

784
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: this in Nature magazine when we have a quote here.

785
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, they say. Infusing this human plasma into the

786
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 2: veins of elderly mice, they found improved the animal's ability

787
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 2: to navigate mazes and to learn to avoid areas of

788
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: their cages that deliver painful electrical shocks. When the researchers

789
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 2: dissected the animal's brains, they found that the cells in

790
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: the hippocampus, the region associated with learning and memory, expressed

791
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 2: genes that cause neurons to form more connections in the brain.

792
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: This didn't happen in mice treated with blood from older

793
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: human donors. So only the young blood helps.

794
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 1: Right, So plasma from older humans did not have much

795
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: of an effect. Plasma from younger sources umbilical cords specifically,

796
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: by the way, turns out to be top notch. What

797
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 1: could go wrong? What could go wrong with this knowledge? Right? Oh? Gosh. Well,

798
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: for now, it appears that any claims that young blood

799
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: or plasma will extend human lifespan are false.

800
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: Or at least we just don't have the data.

801
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: Right, We don't know. The data is just not there. Yeah,

802
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: an experiment to test such claims would take upwards of

803
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: six years, first waiting for the mice to age, then

804
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: for them to die naturally, then analyzing the data. If

805
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: we had funding to do this, says Michael Conboy, I

806
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: do it, but we don't. Still, he adds, after a

807
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: moment of hesitation, I hope that someone somewhere is keep

808
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: in mind he's just talking about mice.

809
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, mice, just mice, and just in the nicest

810
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: of Michael Conboy. Yeah. So, currently it appears the best

811
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: possible case we can hope for is the isolation of

812
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: some specific proteins or other elements that are found in

813
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 2: young blood. These special reasons that rejuvenation occurs, because this

814
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 2: could lead to amazingly effective treatments for age related ailments.

815
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 2: We're talking to Alzheimer's, dementia and so on, without requiring

816
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 2: people to bathe in the blood of virgins or you know,

817
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 2: suck on human numbilical cords.

818
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. The hope would be that our species

819
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: could isolate, let's say, a specific protein, and that specific

820
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: protein could be marketed right and created in some different way.

821
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 1: And of course this research is very expensive, very complicated.

822
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: You'll hear a lot of people say that as the

823
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: world or the owners of the world now seek to

824
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: move away from an owner ship economy to a service economy,

825
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: you'll hear people allege that quote unquote Big Pharma is

826
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: not in the business of selling cures. They're in the

827
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: business of selling scheduled treatments. So then the concern would be,

828
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, is it it's not a cure all that

829
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: will help somebody's Alzheimer's, it's a pill that they have

830
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: to pay for that they have to take once a day. Well.

831
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've got a private company that's based on

832
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 2: making profit off of something and growing that company to

833
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 2: hopefully one day sell it or make more money, you

834
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 2: don't usually want to cure something, right, You don't want

835
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 2: to put yourself out of business.

836
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: But then there are people on the other side who

837
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: will say that private industry is the is a necessary

838
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: factor for this kind of research. Absolutely, but still but

839
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: still it does allow and this is not us being alarmist.

840
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: It does allow for the possibility of a world in

841
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 1: which the rich find yet another avenue for victimizing the poor.

842
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: Imagine a planet's worth of real life Elizabeth Bathorys practicing

843
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: non consensual parabiosis. Research is still underweight, and it's safe

844
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: to say that we'll hear more about this in the

845
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: near to mid future. But Matt and I want to

846
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: know what you think. Where do you land on this

847
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: research given that it can mitigate the effects of aging,

848
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: but we should say not give people immortality so far

849
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: as we know, is it worth pursuing and where do

850
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: you see it headed?

851
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 2: So in my opinion, I think you're going to see

852
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,439
Speaker 2: more of what the character that's kind of modeled after

853
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 2: Peter Thiel on, Oh what is that what show? HBO

854
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: show Silicon Valley, that character that he's just got a

855
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: young guy that comes around his house a couple times

856
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: a week and they just do a blood transfusion. I

857
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 2: think that's just going to be a thing that's like

858
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: how the way uber drivers have There are so many

859
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: uber drivers in the world and it's just proliferated. I

860
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 2: think there will just be that the transfusion person.

861
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: A new aspect of the gig economy.

862
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: I really think so. And it's just something you do

863
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: on Tuesdays and Thursdays over at you know, Bill's house

864
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 2: or whatever that guy is that lives in the mansion

865
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 2: on the hill.

866
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: I have no doubt that someone will go off the

867
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: reservation and try this on their own, especially if they

868
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: can afford a relatively unethical doctor to just participate in

869
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: this kind of experimentation. But well, then the doctor could

870
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 1: be ethical. It depends really how much they want to

871
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: pay the Yeah group, how much work they want to

872
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: put into it. But I'm I think it really depends

873
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: on what data bears out here. If if there is,

874
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: it turns out real tangible results and evidence, then it's

875
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: Katie bar the door. We don't know where it stops,

876
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: but if it is a way to bilk the frightened

877
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: and the aging out of money in an attempt to

878
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: I guess pay the ferrymen a couple of extra coins

879
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: to stay on his side of the river sticks for

880
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: a while. The people will throw money at it, of course.

881
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: But here's the question that bugs me the most, Matt.

882
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,479
Speaker 2: How much are the donors of ambrosia getting paid.

883
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, that's a good question.

884
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 2: Because I mean, I'm in, you're in. Oh no, I'm

885
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: never mind.

886
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: Sorry man. Another question that bugs me is what happened

887
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,959
Speaker 1: to parabiosis research when it dropped out, when it fell

888
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: out of favor. Why did it disappear from the mainstream

889
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: radar for decades? Was it animal rights? Was it something else?

890
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your opinion. That concludes our episode

891
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: for today, but never fear, Matt, Noel, Paul and I

892
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: will be back very soon in the meantime.

893
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 2: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you

894
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 2: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can

895
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

896
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 2: One of the best is to give us a call.

897
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you

898
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, you can send us a

899
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

900
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

901
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production

902
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

903
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,800
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