WEBVTT - Mourning at the Church 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:06.160 Today was all about how they discovered the final victim 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.960 and in his body, that's Kenneth Roden, and it included 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.360 a tense confrontation between Kenneth Roden's son and the man 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.120 on trial and accused of taking part in the murder 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.400 of his father six years ago. You were going over 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.200 there to tell him whatever? Correct? Yeah, we went inside. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:27.160 Then that's when we've found out that he was deceased. 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.080 What are your thoughts about the Wagners. My thoughts about 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:40.800 the Wadeners. I hope they Yet everything comes. So this 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:45.280 is the Pikes and Massacre returned to Pike County season four, 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:51.400 episode five, Morning at the Church. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.360 television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:02.480 Stephanie and I are currently in Pike County. All right, 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:08.240 so here we are, wrote the courthouse in Waverley. The 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:10.600 courthouse is not as busy as it was when court 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:15.800 proceedings began. Now it's mostly media and the victim's family members. 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.160 It's important to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.319 on trial, has pleaded not guilty and has maintained he 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:28.600 did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose trial 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.120 is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.319 Today's testimony centered around the events leading up to the 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.800 discovery of Kenneth Roden's body. He was found by his cousin, 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.520 Donald Stone, and was the last of the victims to 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:48.480 be discovered. Here's Donald on the stand. How do you 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:53.440 know Kenneth Roden's cousin his mother and my father, mother 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.480 and sisters. Some cousins are close some Hart, would you 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:00.680 consider yourself to have been close to Kenneth? Real? Quote? Okay, 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:05.920 and tell us about that. Just you know, anytime that 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.600 I was down and out, the man was there to 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.600 help me. Their mother fed me when I was young, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:17.960 and they were just helpful people. Donald Stone is understandably 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:22.400 emotional in the witness chair. How did you learn that 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.000 something had happened up on Union Hill Road? Well, I 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.800 was a herd appointment that morning. I had talked to 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.160 gentlemen while I was there, and he asked me if 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.640 I heard what happened on Union Hill And I got 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.680 word that there were some people meeting at a church. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.320 So you went to the church on Union Hill Road? 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.880 And who I was there? It's just there is a 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:51.520 lot of people there, amily, I mean, there is a 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.560 lot of people there. Okay. At what point did you 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:59.040 learn how many had been killed on Union Hill Road? Actually, 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.839 I hadn't known at the time how many there were. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.800 For sure. You indicated that you tried to call Kenneth 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.919 at one time, and that was from your home after 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.400 that appointment. Yes, okay. Did you personally ever try to 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:18.000 call Kenneth hear that? Yes, well, when I tried to 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.480 make the phone calls, I did try to call him once, okay. 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.600 And while you read the church, did there become some 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:30.639 concerns about Kenneth not responding to phone calls here? Okay? 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.920 And can you tell us did you decide to go 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.640 to Kenneth at some point? Yeah? We was at the 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:45.360 church and Luke mentioned that he wanted to go to 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.400 his dad's place, and he asked me if I wanted 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:53.920 to go, and we went. Here's Stephanie and I speaking 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.640 about the testimony thus far. It's pretty powerful to be there. 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:03.000 I also didn't realize that Donald Stone was not alone 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:08.440 when he discovered Kenneth's body. I didn't realize Kenneth's son, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.840 Luke was also present. I didn't know that either. I 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.560 didn't know that either until today. How painful that must 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:21.560 have been. Next, Antwo Kenepa begins the difficult process of 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.799 walking the cousins through the discovery of Kenneth Rowden's body. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:31.920 Here again, Donald Stone, we'll go out there. We got Alacor. 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.200 We walked up to the door, me and Luke, and 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.679 once we got to the door, I told him, I said, 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.520 this is your dad's place. You need to go in. First. 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.919 We walked into the supposedly the living room, and I 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.200 noticed to the right, I didn't see him in there nowhere, 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.960 So I've seen a stairway to the right, and I 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.840 walked up the stairway and it was found him with 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.840 and he's a bid And when you say you found 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:10.920 to him, can you tell us what condition you found 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:17.920 him in? Yeah? But resides and where was he located? 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:24.679 And mad he's dead? Was it just you that walked 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:33.200 up those stairs and saw Kenneth. Yes, it was significant, 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.080 just being in the courtroom and being close to family members. 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.960 Kenneth Rowden is one of the victims that we really 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.880 have known the least about. We know that he's a father, 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.520 we know that he lived by himself and that he 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:53.200 was extremely close with Chris Senior. Seeing these crime scene photos, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:59.480 it was pretty excruciating. I believe what struck me so 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.159 much in the courtroom is it's cliche, but how very 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.120 different it is seeing these actual photos versus anything you 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.719 see when you watch TV or a movie. Just the 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:14.360 stark lack of life and these photos was so impactful 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.839 and felt so permanent. We were sitting just feet away 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.680 from Kenneth's family members and for them, I cannot imagine 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.040 how excruciating it was for them to have to see that, 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:29.040 and imagine being Luke, this is his father. He had 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:34.240 to see his father's body and this was a violent crime. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:39.080 So the trauma that they've been through just seeing a 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.400 dead body, let alone of somebody you love so deeply, 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.160 and for them to have to get up there and 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.920 relive it step by step by step, the bravery it took, 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.799 I don't know that I would be able to find 0:06:55.839 --> 0:07:03.200 that level of courage. Because Donald Stone identified the body, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.599 Caneppa had no choice but to have him relive the 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:11.240 dramatic events through crime scene photos showing you what's been 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:16.520 marked as D one eighty two. Aback to do you 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.120 recognize that photo. Yes, and can you tell us what 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:30.600 you recognize that? As he breaks down here and grabs 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:36.160 more tissues. Caneppa, knowing this is horrible, prefaces each question 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.800 with an apology. Sorry, And is that how you saw 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:47.920 Kenneth Lyne in his bed and you entered that d 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:59.960 way two? Mister Stone, can you look at that? I'm sorry? 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.960 What do you recognize that as? And is that how 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:09.800 you saw him on that day? Yes? And you indicated 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:16.160 ned he had Does that imagine recollection of the blood 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:24.240 that you saw him? Okay, here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:30.720 reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve. Everybody knows in 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.280 Pike County how these people died. I would say they 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.560 are trying to shock the jury at this point with 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.760 the violence of it, for sure, because they showed the 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.280 pictures of people dead in their beds or on the 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:51.640 floor time and time and time again. The trial is 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:54.240 reopening wounds that may have only just begun to heal. 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.480 Traveling with us as investigative journalist Jeff Winkler Woll you'll 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.520 remember previous seasons. It was his article about the Roden 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.600 family that first peaked her interest in the case. He's 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.280 joined us for several trips to Pike County over the years. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.720 I think that's the weirdest thing is going into the 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:19.440 courthouse as the trials going and starting for George, and 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:24.280 the families still there, still grieving, still having the same 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.680 kind of grief and trauma, then seeing the family having 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.600 just basically stuck in time of pain. Can you imagine, though, 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.560 the level of grief and despair even just to have 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.120 to sit there and look at these photos, which I 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.600 might add were pretty graphic, and we've never actually seen 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.079 those before. I think that's what struck me walking in 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.839 there today was just the I mean, it's been six years, 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.600 you know. Yeah, so you've got the core Warners and 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.960 the core folks in the middle of the trauma. Everyone 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.640 else is gone. I thought it was also interesting to 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:58.320 finally see the matriarch of the Roden family. She's Chris 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:04.720 Senior's mother and the grandmother therefore of Hannahme Roden, Chris 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:13.439 Junior Roden, Frankie Rodin, and I believe then her grandson 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:18.840 would also be Luke. Chris and Kenneth were her sons, 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:24.360 which yes, would make Luke her grandson. I was so 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.040 sad for her, Geneva Roden, because I looked over at 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.920 one point and there were just some horrific crime scene 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.840 photos being shown. Here's reporter Ajeanette Levy, who was also 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:41.040 present in the courtroom, and Geneva Roden was consoling her 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.800 daughters who were sobbing. She was sobbing. They were kind 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.600 of consoling one another and just understandably falling apart having 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:54.440 to see photos of their loved ones murdered and what 0:10:54.679 --> 0:11:01.000 is just an unbelievable amount of blood in some instances. Meanwhile, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.880 Kenneth Roden's son Luke had also caught wind of the 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.240 murders on the morning of April twenty second, twenty sixteen. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:13.720 Here he is testifying alone came into my bedroom and 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.880 said that I mean to get up and Chris and 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:23.440 everybody get out there shot up on the hill. Luke 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.880 Rowden is an imposing man with a beard and short 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:30.560 brown hair. He wears a blue shirt, lucas poised and 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.160 speaks in a very matter of fact manner. As new 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.640 spread around town of the murders, Luke tried to make 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.080 his way to his uncle, Chris Senior's house, but police 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:43.720 had already cordoned off the road. And then do you 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.960 know how you knew to go to the church someone 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.000 who came on last nute that they all meet. Never, 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.640 it's the church. While you were trying to get through there, right, 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.000 they informed you to go to the church. Right, people 0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:01.800 were gathering at the church. Yeah, Luke Donald Stone his 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.920 father's cousin and best friend at the church. During this time, 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:09.200 do you make any attempts to contact your father? Yes, 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.880 try to contact about a dozen times. Never seen anything 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:19.440 back from him. Okay, is that normal? No? Okay? At 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:27.679 that point do you get concerned? Yes? Here again James Pilcher. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:32.440 Both of them talked about the chaos and all of 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.480 the things that were happening when they didn't know where 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.200 Ken was. They couldn't get a touch with them. The 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.000 prosecution even showed a picture of the cell phone that 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.800 Ken would put in his window to try to get 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:52.679 a perception and he went down to your dad's What 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.760 did you do when you got there? I've seen he's 0:12:54.800 --> 0:13:01.240 try still and driveway so I'll get out. Special Prosecutor 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.040 Angrew Kneppa shows Luke and the jury various exterior photos 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.960 of Kenneth's property. There is an abandoned boat on one 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.480 side of the driveway entrance. Nestled back in the woods 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.319 are two trailers and an outbuilding. It's April, so there 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.920 are no leaves on the trees, but you can imagine 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.480 it's pretty secluded once things are in bloom. Kneppa spends 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.600 nearly thirty minutes dissecting each photo for the jury. Reporter 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.320 James Pilcher noted the level of detail on the part 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:37.599 of the prosecution. I don't mean this is a criticism 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.360 towards a prosecution, because they gotta do what they gotta do. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:45.520 But this is going extremely, extremely slowly. It feels like 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.720 they're trying to kill a natt with a ten pound sledge. 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.720 They're pulling out every single piece of evidence they have 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:58.200 for every single possible question that could come up. This 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:06.640 trial has slowed to a nail space. On cross examination, 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.719 the defense questions Luke Roden about a local whose name 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.040 we have heard come up in our investigation Big money. 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:20.480 Mike can tell us, didn't tell you I've heard his name, book, 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:26.200 didn't tell you who he is. You've heard his name from? Yeah, 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.280 I didn't hear about it until everything happened. So I 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:39.120 can Stephanie and Jeff in Luke Roden's testimony, he made 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.240 it clear that he hadn't heard the name Big Money 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.560 Mike until after the murders and didn't know how it 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:53.200 related to his family members being murdered. I'm curious where 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:59.480 the prosecution is leading to because it's come up now twice. 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.400 We started doing our own digging about Big Money Mike, 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.600 and we have to assume that that stands for Michael Moran. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.560 He is the attorney that has since died that we 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:17.160 covered pretty extensively in season two, and he had a 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:22.680 very checkered past. Maybe that's him, but again we don't 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.520 know for sure. This is just another example of the 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.720 prosecution building a narrative that we're not totally sure where 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:33.400 it will lead until they rest. Andie Canepa asked Luke 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.760 about what happened after he and Donald Stone entered his 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.600 father's home. No, he stamped up in there and looked 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:46.960 and a ramp path. Mean told we get out like 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.120 he'd been shot. He told you he had been shot, 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:56.880 he said, but all over his face. When you were 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.680 inside of your dad's home, did you stay pop at all? 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.640 Into his bedroom? I don't believe I stand up doing 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.200 his bedroom. I may stepped on the step right there, maybe, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.160 but I don't believe I stepped into the bedroom. Okay, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.160 Were you able to see any part of him from 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.320 where you were? I able to see his leg and 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:21.520 at the top of his head, and the blank was 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.560 actually placed like he has been placed ony. Okay, there 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.120 was a blanket on him right, Okay? Were you able 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.680 to see his face at that time at all? Now? 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:39.320 I just see his forehead and his hair. At this point, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.880 Coulnepa asked Luke about the money that was found on 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:47.720 Kenneth's body. I seem probably I don't know how much, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.760 but like a few ones and fives and stuff like that, 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:55.560 some money, paper money, and his pants was laying there 0:16:55.640 --> 0:17:00.920 beside it. Here's Stephanie and Jeff Winkler. We always sort 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.720 of had heard that he had almost like there was 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.800 money thrown all over his body. It was a rolled 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.480 up dollar bill and some change, That's all. It wasn't 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.880 there wasn't money lying everywhere. We always maybe thought that 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.000 was such an interesting crime scene and very different than 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.800 the others, and maybe that was a way of making 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:23.520 it look like a hit, or make it look like 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.920 the cartel had done it. It was a good reminder 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.639 that in those first you know, first forty eight hours 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:32.639 or whatever of just pure speculation, that's hard enough to beat. 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.119 But then those little bits of fantasy, hitch on for 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:41.280 a rod and don't let go. We're going to take 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:51.400 a break. We'll be back in a moment. For most 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.240 of the morning, George wag knew the fourth it's motionless 0:17:54.280 --> 0:18:01.080 looking down. This is true, especially during Donald Stone's emotional testimony. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.600 George Wagner finally makes eye contact when questions turned to 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.840 his family. Luke only had brief interactions with the Wagners 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:12.639 over the years, but one with Billy stuck out in 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:17.440 his memory. I was out at his property one time. 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.160 It was the one that pretty far off the grid, 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:28.440 and my dad and Chris learning the backau for him 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.760 to do something, and backhead went to start, so he 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.320 got a hold of my dad and Chris. They brought 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.040 out some tarps and space heater and all that to 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.480 get the back I warmed up to in order to 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.440 get us started. I was standing there on the trailer 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.240 and he was standing beside me. Looked that he said, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.000 csp he said, there's some really good people. He said 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.400 that fair had to fuck with him that they had 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.400 to shoot him if they ever had to what mess 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.560 with him, if he had had a tussle with him, whatever, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.720 that he had had to shoot him. Did he explain 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.200 why that was or did he say anything more? That 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.320 was it, But he was telling you they were really 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:15.159 great people. Yeah. First. Right at the end of his testimony, 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.320 Luke was asked to point out George by both the 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:24.520 prosecution and the defense present today. Yes, if so, can 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:26.679 you point where he is sitting? He described for us 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:32.080 when he's married right there, the last one there has 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:37.600 changed appearance was at all? Yes, he has. Wait, wise, 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.360 he was much larger when you last saw him. Right, Yes, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:48.080 here again, Stephanie. I was struck just by seeing George 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:52.080 Wagner in person, having never seen him before. In person, 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.800 he was slighter than I imagined him being. He's got good, 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.800 a little ball going on. You know, roots are shined, 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.679 just kind of looks regular, which is not what you 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:04.840 you know, they're supposed to have some sort of like 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:10.840 dark glow around them. Right. Media covering the trial immediately 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.840 latched onto the story Luca told about his interaction with 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.720 Billy Wagner, the son of one of the Pike County 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:20.200 massacre victims testified Billy Wagner's right in the road and 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.000 family four or five years before the actual shootings. Luke 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.040 said that while his dad and uncle were doing a 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.560 good deed for Billy Wagner, Billy told Luke that a 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.280 dust up between the three of them would not end well. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.080 After kenep as well planned line of questioning of Luke 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:41.040 rowdon George's defense attorney has very little to add. He 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:47.080 rests within minutes here again, James Pilcher queerly, they are 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:51.640 cutting off any opportunity for the defense to ask why 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.720 didn't you ask this? Why didn't you do that? Why 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.119 didn't you this? Now the defense is still trying to 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:59.280 find its way to do that. The final witness of 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:04.159 the day straits the prosecution strategy perfectly. Brett Hatfield was 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.439 a friend and co worker of Kenneth Rod's. He opts 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:09.960 out of media coverage, but we were there to follow 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:15.400 his testimony. Brett Hatfield worked in Columbus at the same 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:21.359 company as Kenneth, so the pair very often car pool together. However, 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:25.920 on the morning of April twenty second, twenty sixteen, they didn't, 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.840 and when Hatfield arrived at Kenneth's home, probably around four 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.040 am the morning of April twenty second. He said there 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.280 were no lights on and that Kenneth's didn't come to 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.679 the door as he normally did. It turns out that 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.520 the day before, Hatfield said that Kenneth had been complaining 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.000 of high blood pressure, a condition that Luke explained sometimes 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:49.920 made him sick and could cause him to miss work. 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:54.360 So despite Kenneth's car being in the lot, Hatfield assumed 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:56.560 that maybe somebody picked him up and took him to 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:05.560 the hospital. So he just left. James Pilcher, he came in, 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.239 saw Kenneth all the time, So you put him up 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:13.360 on the sand. They're going incrementally chronologically, and I think 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:15.679 they're feeling in their way as they go through this trial. 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.080 To let the jury know, we took every step to 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:24.800 interview everybody we could. Legal analyst Mike Allan, who's speaking 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:32.920 with Jeff, agrees, it just tells the story here. This 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:34.840 poor guy, you know, he wants to pick up his 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.359 buddy to drive to Columbus to go to work, but 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:41.840 he's not there. That's something that's pretty strong and I 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:48.440 know the prosecution what the jury to hear that. Yeah, 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:51.440 it definitely paints a picture, and that's what they need 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:55.320 to do. That's what they're doing. Hours after Hatfield left 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.000 Kenneth Roden's trailer that morning, a member of the road 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:01.600 and family called to tell him about the murder. Hatfield 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:06.160 immediately left work in Columbus and returned to Piketon. Here's 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:11.760 Luke Rowden. Did he arrive at some point? Yes, he did. 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:14.240 Whenever we were sitting down our way on the cops 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:17.040 to come and all that he showed up. One was 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:21.480 full wheeler and just there's like a scammer my dad's 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:26.239 property behindest trailer and stuff like okay, and do you 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.240 know what he was looking for at the time, cameras, 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.800 see if the camera was still around, to see if 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:38.520 there was a footage or less. Many of the cameras 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:43.840 were missing. The prosecution asked him about Kenneth's dog, Brownie 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:47.520 earlier in the day. Both Luke Rowden and Donald Stone 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.320 testified the dog was inside the trailer when they arrived, 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.000 but Hatfield adds a very telling detail about the dog 0:23:54.960 --> 0:24:01.920 here again Stephanie and Jeff. Interesting about Brownie is that 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:07.160 Hatfield says the dog would bite anybody, didn't matter who 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.800 you were. Unless you called the dog by name. And 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:15.720 that's interesting because it was reported that the Wagoners didn't 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.720 have any dog bites on them whatsoever, So why didn't 0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:22.560 Brownie attack so Steph. That says to me that it 0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:25.440 seems pretty likely that whoever was there that night must 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:27.920 have known the dog by name. And keep in mind 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.280 that we have heard from numerous people that many of 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:34.600 the Rodent properties had dogs like this on them, so 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:36.800 that would be indicative that whoever was at all of 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:40.560 these crime scenes knew all of the dogs. In theory, 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.280 Hatfield added yet another chilling detail to the timeline of 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:46.960 April twenty, twenty sixteen. He said that when he found 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:48.919 out about the murders, he tried calling everyone in the 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:51.600 Rodent family. He even sent a DM to Hannah May 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:55.080 on social media, who, as we know, was tragically already dead. 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:58.639 Hatfield said that he never got a response, but he 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:03.359 did get a notification that the message was read. So 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:06.359 what does that mean? I would imagine after the murder, 0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:08.560 the killers were probably cleaning up or figuring out what 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.200 to do, and her phone was pinging and to silence 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:12.840 that maybe they looked at it or opened the text 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:14.960 message and shut it down. All we know is that 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:17.959 Hotfield sent a message after she was already murdered, and 0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:20.320 somebody read that message, and it could not have been 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:23.160 Hannah met Rodin. We know that it's come up that 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:27.760 Jake Wagner took several phones from the crime scenes and 0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:32.320 allegedly destroyed them the next day. Is this one of 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:36.000 those phones? And think about this. Can you imagine being 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:39.359 Jake Wagner and you're literally reading a text on the 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:44.200 phone of the mother of your baby who you just murdered, 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:49.240 and you have enough wherewithal to potentially check her phone 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:54.840 and read her texts. With the trial underway, the Rodent 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:58.760 family is inching towards closure, but not before some wounds 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:04.480 are reopened for all the world else to see. Let's 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:14.960 stop here for another break. After court adjourned for the day, 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:18.840 Luke was interviewed on the courthouse steps. Look, what was 0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:21.879 it like to be on the witness standing nor racking, 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:26.680 seeing the photos and stuff and bringing the past up 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:31.639 and their things really hard on my mental state? And 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:34.679 Geneva's your grandmother, right correct? Talk about how this is 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:36.800 an effect that we've seen her crying or just talking 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:38.679 about her in the whole family house is effected her. 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:42.880 She went through a lot and I wish you never 0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:46.359 how to go through any of this. She's lost while 0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:50.520 her children at a young age, and and now she's 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:54.600 deale with all her other children and her grandchildren murdered. 0:26:54.680 --> 0:26:58.600 And I think everything's getting closer to the end. I'm 0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:04.280 can't wait till Zager really, so rest of our family 0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:07.800 go on with our lives, and I can't imagine. Can 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:10.760 you even put it into words what it's like worst 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:15.120 nightmare living in hail Really? What are your thoughts about 0:27:15.119 --> 0:27:20.760 the Wageners? My thoughts about the Wageners? I hope they 0:27:20.800 --> 0:27:26.520 Yet everything comes to when you examined that hat, did 0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:30.200 you find would you believed to be a bullet hole 0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:35.159 in the back of it? Yes, both sides agreed the 0:27:35.200 --> 0:27:38.160 traces of Gary Rowden's blood were found on the door knob, 0:27:38.480 --> 0:27:41.040 but not of the Wagoners. That seemed to make the 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:45.560 case for the defense. None of the evidence collected were 0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:51.920 examined with respect to that scene contained any DNA that 0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:57.480 was linked to George Wagner, this defendant Jake Wagner, Angela Wagner, 0:27:57.800 --> 0:28:01.600 or Billy Wagner. When are they all going to tie 0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:04.280 this together? When are they going to point to George 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.760 being part of this conspiracy because none of the physical 0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:11.800 evidence presented so far hide any of the Wagoners to 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:16.439