1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts. 2 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Previously on Murder on Songbird Road. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 2: She found out she was pregnant in jail. 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: It was rough, the best possible blessing at the worst 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: possible time. 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, two million dollar bond and we went in 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 3: for a reduction and Judge Green denied it. So we 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 3: tried again when she was around eight months pregnant, and 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 3: he denied it again. There were no presumptions of innocence 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 3: while we were awaiting child. 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: There was none of that. 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: None of it, especially it would seem when it came 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: to Beverly's labor and delivery. 14 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 4: Malon Reynolds tells me that the judge ordered Thomas would 15 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 4: be taken as soon as the umbilical cord was cut. 16 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: I wanted to scream at that moment. I said, no 17 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: one told me this. 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, and this is Murder on Songbird Road. 19 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: Jade Beasley's murder left the blended family she was a 20 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: part of splintered with grief, anger, and confusion. That ripple 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: effect has reverberated throughout the extended family of her father, 22 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: Mike Beasley. But Bob and I were very hopeful the 23 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: family would eventually respond to our ongoing offers to sit 24 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: down for an interview. 25 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 5: I am Jade's great aunt. I am the sister of 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 5: her grandmother, Sheila. 27 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: That's Brenda, the sister of Sheila Beasley, who is Mike's 28 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: mother and Jade's paternal grandmother. 29 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 6: My name is Bailey, and Jade's father, Michael is my 30 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 6: first cousin. 31 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: And that's Bailey, the niece of Brenda. Sheila. Bailey and 32 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: Brenda work together to craft the victim impact statement that 33 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: Brenda delivered in court while addressing Julia Beverly before her sentencing. 34 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: For both Bob and me, it was incredibly important to 35 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: connect with them. 36 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 7: I'm so grateful that y'all have allowed us to speak 37 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 7: to you. I want to know every side of this tragedy, 38 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 7: and I'm half blind if I don't have these conversations 39 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 7: with you too, so I'm sure I'm sharing for Lauren 40 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 7: as well. 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: I am so appreciative that you've agreed to speak with us. 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 7: I'm very grateful that y'all are willing to do this 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 7: and kind enough to do this. But I can imagine 44 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 7: how difficult it is to rehash this stuff. 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: I noticed both of you ladies are wearing pink intentional. 46 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 5: This is Jay's favorite color. It's Jay's color. She just 47 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 5: absolutely loved pink, and it is the color we have 48 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 5: chosen for the foundation for Jake. Marie Beasley Speak Live 49 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 5: founding that spreads kindness in the community and helps children 50 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 5: express themselves. She expressed herself in her own unique way, 51 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 5: hence the Speak Life Foundation. She loved music, she loved 52 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 5: the arts, and she didn't get an opportunity to grow 53 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 5: and learn, so we are hoping to carry that on 54 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 5: for Jade. 55 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: Wearing pink became a symbol of solidarity with the Justice 56 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: for Jade movement, particularly during the lead up to and 57 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: throughout Beverly's trial. We'll explore the significance of this color, 58 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: especially its presence from the courtroom bench in future episodes. 59 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: Beyond wearing pink, both women share not only a familial 60 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: resemblance to Jade, but a profound grief over her tragic murder. 61 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 8: It's just it's never something you would think to experience. 62 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 6: I know for me, I'll never forget when I found 63 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 6: out and getting that phone call and how quickly it 64 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 6: changes your lives. 65 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: I know that this is a difficult topic for both 66 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: of you. If you could just tell me a little 67 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: bit about Jade and Bailey, I'll let you go first. 68 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 8: I would say. 69 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 6: The first thing I have to say about her was 70 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 6: that she was very eccentric and individualistic in the best way, 71 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 6: even for a child. If you look at pictures, you know, 72 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 6: you'll notice there may be a one pattern and a 73 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 6: headband and a completely different pattern and a shirt. She 74 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 6: loved to play with her own style and dress herself 75 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 6: and be expressive in that way. 76 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 8: Jade was very kind. 77 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 6: She loved all of her siblings and all of her 78 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 6: cousins very deeply. 79 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 8: Brenda, I think i'll let you go ahead. 80 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 5: From my perspective, Jade was just as sassy as she 81 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 5: was sweet. She was very kind. She loved animals. She'd 82 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 5: loved butterflies. She would come visit me, either at the lake, 83 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 5: then we would go boating, or her favorite place was 84 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 5: to go to the beach, to Orange Beach and golf shores, 85 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 5: and she would just love to get up and walk 86 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 5: on the beach and look at the tiniest little shell 87 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 5: or creature. 88 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 9: She just loved life period. 89 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 5: She was always kind, no matter if somebody was mean 90 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 5: to her. 91 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 9: She was kind, that was just her nature. 92 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: We are all used to reading awful stories in the 93 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: headlines and hearing them on the radio and television, But 94 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: could anything have prepared you, guys for experiencing this within 95 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: your family. 96 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 5: Absolutely not never, Never that happens to other families. 97 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 6: I was in shock and disbelief. Something you can't wrap 98 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 6: your head around. It's just it's something you can never 99 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 6: prepare for, and it's something you would never expect to 100 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 6: happen to your family, or do you or do your 101 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 6: loved one. 102 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 8: It's hard for somebody to say that Jade's dead or 103 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 8: that this person died. It's they're gone, and it's what 104 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 8: do you mean they're gone? Are they missing? 105 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: Gone? 106 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 8: You know what is gone? 107 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 7: I just first wanted to say, I'm I can't even 108 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 7: imagine the loss that your entire family has experienced and 109 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 7: will always experience. I can't even imagine it what that 110 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 7: feels like unless you're in it. You just can't, Like, 111 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 7: I could try to contemplate what it might be like, 112 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 7: but I could never know what you guys have experienced. 113 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 7: This is so valuable to us to hear from you, guys, 114 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 7: to learn about who Jade was as a human being, 115 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 7: who she was to you guys, what she meant to you, 116 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 7: and to give us your impressions of Julie. Because we 117 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 7: came into this not knowing anybody. 118 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 5: I felt strongly that Jade needed to have representation because 119 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 5: I'm sure you guys could go on with or without us, 120 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 5: And I get it. The biological mother and her father 121 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 5: they want at this point no part of a podcast 122 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 5: because they just specifically they can't even think about it anymore. 123 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 9: It's just too overwhelming. 124 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: A quick note that dynamic would eventually change. We are 125 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: deeply grateful for the ongoing conversations we've had with Jade's 126 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: family and are continually impressed by their openness and willingness 127 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: to engage. When we first spoke with Bailey and her 128 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: aunt Brenda, it was August of twenty twenty four. By then, 129 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: they had spent nearly four years processing the murder and 130 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: everything that had unfolded since, including Julia Beverly's arrest, trial, 131 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: and ultimate conviction. 132 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 7: When you first heard that it was Julie, was there 133 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 7: part of your mind that was like, no way, or 134 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 7: was there part of your mind where you're like that 135 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 7: totally makes sense for me. 136 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 8: I think I was somewhere in the middle. 137 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 6: I would say it was more of shock there because 138 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 6: it's somebody so close, somebody that had been around the family, obviously, 139 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 6: that had children with Michael. 140 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 8: There is a. 141 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 6: Shot there in that aspect, I would say. At the 142 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 6: same time, though, when I did hear that, it kind 143 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 6: of makes your brain start working backwards and thinking of 144 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 6: the times when she was so withdrawn from everybody else 145 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 6: around her, and that makes you start thinking, did she 146 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 6: have an issue that she didn't say, Was it suppressing 147 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 6: these emotions? Were you enjoying being around everybody or were 148 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 6: you not? 149 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: Happen pretty quickly after the murder five days later, and 150 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: at the time they had no confession, no murder weapon, 151 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: no DNA evidence. But the thing that Bob and I 152 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: have spoken about multiple times is that there's always a motive. 153 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: There's a motive that unless you're dealing with somebody like 154 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: a serial killer, where it's just irrational or driven by 155 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 1: things that we can't even imagine. But you mentioned something 156 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: in the victim impact statement that stuck with me, which 157 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: is why I wanted to ask you you'd use the 158 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: word jealousy. I believe, if I'm not mistaken and I 159 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: was wondering if you could expand upon that. 160 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 5: The limited times that the family came here collectively together, 161 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 5: Jade and I had had conversations, and so my perspective 162 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 5: of jealousy was Jade was the princess. She was her 163 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 5: daddy's little girl. She was from a different marriage. She 164 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 5: was loved dearly by both sides of her family. Her 165 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 5: biological mother, her biological father. They got along very well. 166 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 5: It was a textbook seven day on, seven day off, 167 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 5: joint custody situation. There was a lot for that child 168 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 5: since she was born and they divorced at quite a 169 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 5: young age, and they were young when they had Jay. 170 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 5: But you can be nice to someone but not really 171 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 5: care for them. 172 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: That duality stuck out to both Bob and myself immediately 173 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: because we'd not heard any examples of conflict or abuse 174 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: between Beverly and her stepdaughter. I know that Julie did 175 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: come down with Mike and the kids twice, not mistaken 176 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: to visit you in Alabama. Looking back, did you observe 177 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: anything about that dynamic that sticks out? 178 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 5: But I didn't really talk that much to her. And 179 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 5: then when she came with the family in any family event, 180 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 5: Julie never interacted with the family. She was very withdrawn 181 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 5: and she would withdraw herself from family situations. 182 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 9: So yes, over. 183 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 5: Seven and a half years, I guess they were together. 184 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 5: The family came to Alabama at least four times a year, 185 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 5: but not Michael and Julie and that family. Jade would come, 186 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 5: but she maintain So I mean, anything that I say 187 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 5: is clearly from my limited perspective with her and from 188 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 5: my conversations like I said, with Jade, and I do 189 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 5: know that Jay did not feel totally inclusive in the 190 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 5: Michael Julie pod, but she would not speak about things 191 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 5: that would make other people look better feel bad at all. 192 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 5: I wasn't there day to day with the family, but 193 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 5: I do know that the night that she spent the 194 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 5: night there with Michael and Julie at their home. On 195 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 5: Songbird wrote, the other children were with my sister, and 196 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 5: my sister did say, why don't you stay, Why do 197 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 5: you want to go? 198 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 9: Why do you want to go so bad? 199 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 5: The other kids are here, there's nobody home, you know, 200 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 5: And she says, well, I want to see my dad 201 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 5: because I have my sister's birthday party to go to 202 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 5: this week, so I. 203 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 9: Want to see my dad before I go. 204 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 5: And that's how she she says, not just because I'm 205 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 5: not going to be able to be with him that week, 206 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 5: because there was a lot going on and she wanted 207 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 5: to see her dad that eden. 208 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: It is of note that by all accounts, the before 209 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: the murder, Jade asked to come back to Songbird Road 210 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: and Julia Beverly willingly volunteered to stay home with her 211 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: that night while Mike went out back to Bailey. 212 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 6: Brenda mentioned with being with John, you know, we are 213 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 6: a big family. We are a pretty loud family. On 214 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 6: our side, there's a whole bunch of us. There's a 215 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 6: lot of kids. When you get everybody together, it is 216 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 6: loud and it is crazy. There was a year specifically 217 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 6: that sticks out to me now that everything's happened, And 218 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 6: it was around Christmas time and some of the kids 219 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 6: were opening up gifts and Kim and Michael were there, 220 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 6: and Julie and everybody was kind of in the living 221 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 6: room met Shea's house at Michael some others and some 222 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 6: people were kind of in the. 223 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 8: Kitchen and there's this chair that sits. 224 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 6: If you're looking at the fireplace and the TV to 225 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 6: the left of it, and Julie was sitting in that chair, 226 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 6: and when everybody else around her is engaged in opening 227 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 6: gifts and talking, she's very quiet, very reserved, and kind 228 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 6: of just sitting there and observing. And that is just 229 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 6: something that stuck with me from that one interaction. 230 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: What immediately struck Bob and me was the specific critique 231 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: Julia's family had of Mike was his quiet and somewhat 232 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: introverted demeanor at their family gatherings. Back to Brenda and Bailey. 233 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 6: I am awarees you all are that in court the 234 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 6: state did not go for a motive. Jennifer never presented 235 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 6: a motive or at least directly stated one that she thought. 236 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: Jennifer is Special Prosecutor Jennifer Mudge, who tried the case 237 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: against Julia Beverly. 238 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 6: My personal opinion is that sometimes people snap, and that 239 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 6: is what. 240 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 8: I believe happened in this case. 241 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 6: As Brenda said, you know, Jade was from a previous marriage. 242 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 6: She was the only child in their immediate family from 243 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 6: a different marriage, and that is where we believe the 244 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 6: jealousy came in and where we believe she. 245 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: Said murder on Songbird Road. We'll return after the break 246 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: here again is murder on Songbird Road. 247 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 7: I'm always trying to go through the psychology of it. 248 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 7: But in terms of Julie's version of what she claims happened, 249 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 7: when did you guys hear that, like how soon after 250 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 7: they say okay, Julie's the suspect. Was that right away? 251 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 7: Where you heard this story? Or is it a trial 252 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 7: or is the prosecutor? Let you know, we had. 253 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 5: Heard bits and pieces prior to the trial that she 254 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 5: had left the house, somebody was there or somebody ran out. 255 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 5: We of course had heard some pieces of it, but 256 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 5: we actually heart the full version. 257 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 9: At the trial. 258 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 5: We followed the information of which, by the way, was 259 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 5: Julie's statement as to where she went. And from my 260 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 5: perspective on jumping straight to it being Julie, I had 261 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 5: already told my sister and unlessened the shut the social 262 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 5: media off, shut the noise up. Let's find the facts first, 263 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 5: And I said, you will hear the facts, so you 264 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 5: follow the facts here Julie's story and verify. 265 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 9: So I trust, but verify. 266 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 5: And when the evidence was presented at the trial is 267 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 5: exactly when I made my mind up, because I've followed 268 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 5: the evidence. She told her story, she placed herself as 269 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 5: having her own cell phone with her, and they follow 270 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 5: the cell phone data. She told them she went to Hawks. 271 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 5: I never knew they dug up a dump, a garbage 272 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 5: dump and found what they found until the trial. 273 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: But in all fairness, what they found had nothing to 274 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: do with the case. 275 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 5: The coordinates were exactly where the dumpster had been and 276 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 5: exactly what they had dumped in. 277 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 9: There was two dumpsters she went to. 278 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 7: So anyway, wait, wait, tell me. 279 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: Explain that to us, because that's not something that we've 280 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: come up. 281 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 7: Yeah, we did not hear that. Like, the only thing 282 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 7: that we've heard was that she had stopped in the Hawks. 283 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,719 Speaker 7: Her story was that she had made her way all 284 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 7: the way down to Carbondell to go to Walmart. Right, 285 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 7: so we have that lie that's in place. And now 286 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 7: when this video from Hawks. 287 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: Surfaces, a quick aside after Julie remembered making the stock, 288 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: Renee actually called in the Hucks tip before the video surfaced. 289 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 7: And so she says, okay, well, I'm at the light. 290 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 7: My gaslight pops on, I pull into the Hawks. I'm 291 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 7: going to get gas. I realize I don't have my cards. 292 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 7: So then that's when we see the thing which to 293 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 7: me sounds like it was a rather small package, like 294 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 7: and this is the stuff that I look at critically. 295 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 7: I wasn't at the trial, you guys, especially you Brenda, 296 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 7: because I'm assuming Billy, as you said, you were trying 297 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 7: to deal with your college life. You know, probably didn't attend. 298 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 9: He did not miss the so. 299 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 8: Like so. 300 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 7: But I have not heard anything about a second dumpster 301 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 7: at all. 302 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 5: Around the back of Hucks as a dumpster. So there 303 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 5: was something dumped here and then pulled to the I 304 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 5: believe I could be mispeaken, but there's a dumpster at. 305 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 9: The back that I had heard. 306 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 5: Something was put in, and there was the dumpster here, 307 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 5: and the only place I could have heard that was 308 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 5: at the try. 309 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: I only have that video of look at her throwing away. 310 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, see where she drove, Which direction she drove first, 311 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 5: because to the backside of HUWKS as another dumpster, and 312 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 5: then she threw something in that package and there's an 313 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 5: additional dumpster. 314 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: Anyway, Remember this understanding or misunderstanding of what was discarded 315 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: at Hucks and that dumpster and what was discovered at 316 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: the landfill. It is crucial and will be clarified in 317 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: the court transcripts which we would soon possess back to Brenda. 318 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 5: I could be misspeaking, but honestly, the dumpster not even 319 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 5: that's I just had never seen so much law enforcement 320 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 5: come through garbage like that in my whole life. I 321 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 5: never knew they would even do that. I didn't even 322 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 5: realize they had the core in some new trash that 323 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 5: they did. 324 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 6: I would say for me with that, and during the trial, 325 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 6: you know, we know it was in a landfill, so 326 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 6: it was not tested for DNA. In my opinion, no 327 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 6: matter what, it would have been contaminated, and clearly that's 328 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 6: what they thought as well. However, if you kind of 329 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 6: go back to the mindset and kind of the talk 330 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 6: throughout the pre trials and leading up to the jury trial, 331 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 6: and what we knew that Julie's family and friends were 332 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 6: saying was that the police were not making an effort, 333 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 6: or they were not doing everything that they. 334 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 8: Could, or this or that, and it was. 335 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 6: All negative to how there wasn't a thorough investigation, or 336 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 6: this was not done or that was not done. 337 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 8: And for me. 338 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 6: Personally, and what I took from that moment during the 339 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 6: trial was. 340 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 8: The was thorough. 341 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: Again digging through the landfill for anything they could possibly 342 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: infer could be linked to the murder could also be 343 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: seen as desperation, not dedication back to Bailey. 344 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 6: And they did try to do everything that they could 345 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 6: do throughout this case. 346 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 8: And I think that's. 347 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 6: Spoken to in other ways as well, when they're going 348 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 6: through blood evidence and they're talking about all the different 349 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 6: people that worked. 350 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 8: On this case and how many hours went into it. 351 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 6: We've lived this for almost four years at this point, 352 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 6: obviously December fifth will be four years, and. 353 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 8: Going throughout the past. 354 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 6: Four years and attending pre trials and that week of 355 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 6: jury trial, and I where I sit today, I am 356 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 6: confident that Julie Beverley is guilty of this crime. 357 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 5: So I have two hundred percent convinced Julie is guilty. 358 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 9: I will go to my grave thank you that. 359 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 5: But on the other side, I believe in right and 360 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 5: I believe in forgiveness, and if somebody missed something and 361 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 5: somebody can show me the proof, I will be the 362 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 5: first one in line to say I am so sorry. 363 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 9: I would, I would and forgive. 364 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 5: Me for thinking what I've thought or and I just 365 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 5: took the only evidence that I have been presented with. 366 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 6: I am in the same Jesus, Brenda that if something 367 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 6: were to change in the case and she was to 368 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 6: be proven innocent or not guilty, we will apologize to her. 369 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 6: I can't say we would have a relationship with her necessarily. 370 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 6: I think everybody's a little too far gone for that 371 00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 6: being realistic. But you know, we would apologize if that 372 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 6: was to be the case. I do not believe that 373 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 6: to be so, but I don't want it to come 374 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 6: across as blind animosity or just an ignorant will to 375 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 6: believe whatever is put in front of you, because I 376 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 6: do not believe that that was the case for any 377 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 6: of us. 378 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: The willingness of Jade Beasley's family to extend grace and 379 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: remain open minded even to the slightest possibility that the 380 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: investigation might have been flawed, speaks volumes about their integrity 381 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: and character, which aligns deeply with the Christian principles they referenced. 382 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: During our conversation, Bailey, you did mention that you're religious, 383 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: and I know Brenda that you are as well, and 384 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: that you worked on that victim impact statement together. One 385 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: thing that I remember was the children will be raised Christian. Yes, 386 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: if you could just explain that to me and why 387 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: that was of solace to you after all of this. 388 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 9: The family has a I know that a. 389 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 5: Family member owns a pagan store in Salem or whatever, 390 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 5: but they believe in witchery or witchcraft. I view that 391 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 5: as an occult. There ain't no good witch. There's not 392 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 5: a good witch in mind, although I did like the 393 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 5: witch growing up. But I would just say that, you know, 394 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 5: in the mother Renee, I mean, we hear rumors of 395 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 5: all this, okay, but out of the mouths of babes. 396 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 5: I will tell you that her own daughter said, I 397 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 5: don't like witches. I don't like witches. I don't want 398 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 5: to go back there. I don't like a witch. I 399 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 5: don't know what they were practicing or not practicing, but 400 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 5: Julie didn't really want them to. 401 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 9: Go to church. 402 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: That pagan relative of Julie's Brenda is referencing is actually 403 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: her cousin, Nicki. Nicki owns a metaphysical shop in Salem, 404 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: Massachusetts with her mother, Michelle Renee's sister. Their shop gained 405 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: attention on social media more than a full year before 406 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: the trial even began, when Mike Beasley's new girlfriend, Brooke, 407 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: shared a screenshot from the website of the Salem shop 408 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: Nicki and her mother own, showing several ceremonial daggers for sale, 409 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: with the caption quote, I know I've got a few 410 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: knife collectors on my page. I came across a website 411 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: that has some interesting blades if you're looking for a 412 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 1: new one. 413 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 2: Unquote. 414 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: Here's Beverly's cousin, Nicki. 415 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 10: She is the person who decided to go on to 416 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 10: our store website, take the picture out and share that picture. 417 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 10: I think is one incredibly in boord A. 418 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 2: Something doesn't stay right with me on that. 419 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: This was especially striking to Nicki, as Brooks post would 420 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: increasingly reveal she was raising Julia Beverly's three youngest children 421 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: as her own. 422 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 10: It's just it was a little too too weird that 423 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 10: she just wants to be involved in the drama. She 424 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 10: posts that Fisher from our site 'uring this time to 425 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 10: rehashing all these emotions and things that happened. 426 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 9: Your primary goal should. 427 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 10: Be there and you should be there for your partner, 428 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 10: rather than boeing online and making such tasteless hope. Because 429 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 10: of the way that she was marked in trying to 430 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 10: make that insinuation just to stir the pot. 431 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 4: It's disgusting and it's imperienced me that somebody like that 432 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 4: is a key role in both his life. I don't 433 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 4: know what's worriesome. 434 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: At the time this episode was recorded, I'd made multiple 435 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: unsuccessful attempts to connect with Brooke dating back to February 436 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four. She finally responded in January of 437 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, declining comment. But the link to witchcraft 438 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: also surfaced during the trial when Nikki testified as a 439 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: character witness on Julie's behalf. Special Prosecutor Jennifer or Mudge 440 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: made a point of bringing up the topic in her 441 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: cross examination. 442 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 11: She started focusing on my spiritual faith in my line 443 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 11: of employment, which I don't understand how has anything to 444 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 11: do with the trial. Me and my mom run a 445 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 11: witchcraft shop in Salem, Massachusetts. We are both practicing Pagans, 446 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 11: and that was the main focus on my line of 447 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 11: questioning from her was just the way to try to immediately, 448 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 11: I guess, shed a negative light on me. 449 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 10: Like I said, the community is very Christian, very very religious, 450 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 10: and a little hate these words, but a little dumb. 451 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 2: To other religions or spiritualities that. 452 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 10: Are not Christian They have the painted picture of what 453 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 10: they think witchcraft is and paganisms, and it seems like 454 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 10: they've watched a lot of Disney movies or regimeny grim 455 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 10: fairy tale. I mean, if they did any sort of 456 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 10: research into. 457 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 9: The city where we are, they put a witch on everything. 458 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 10: It's on the side of the police car, it's on 459 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 10: their badges, it's everywhere. 460 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 9: It's been turned into an entire fame of the city. 461 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 9: So it's really kind of normal here for us. 462 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 4: It was a just kind of odd that that was 463 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 4: level focus with me. 464 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: The vilification of pagans and witchcraft and the sensationalizing of Salem, 465 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: Massachusetts isn't overly odd to this woman though. 466 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 12: My name is Tricia Pione. I'm the project director for 467 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 12: New England Hidden Histories at the Congregational Library and Archive 468 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 12: in Boston, and I have a PhD in Early American 469 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 12: history and I specialize in the history of witchcraft in 470 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 12: New England. 471 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: If you could just give me an idea in terms 472 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: of historical, social, political, religious context, what the environment was 473 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: at the onset of the Salem witch trials. 474 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 12: Sure, so, in general, Massachusetts was in a real period 475 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 12: of turmoil in sixteen ninety two, they were in the 476 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 12: middle of war, they had overthrown their governor. So when 477 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 12: the crisis started, they did not have a legal system 478 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 12: that was functioning or a political system that was functioning, 479 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 12: and that meant that during the first few months of 480 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 12: the crisis, accusations were spreading quickly. They were able to 481 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 12: issue arrest warrants and put people in jail, but they 482 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 12: could not try them. They could not establish a court 483 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 12: until the new royal governor returned to Salem, and so 484 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 12: that meant they couldn't hold trials. So they just held 485 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 12: people in jail and started collecting evidence and witness statements, 486 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 12: which really kind of spiraled things. 487 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: Now. I know that there were witch hunts in other areas, 488 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: particularly in New England, and you know obviously throughout Europe 489 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,479 Speaker 1: at the time as well, but in terms of the 490 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: scope of it in Salem, how many people are we 491 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: actually talking about in terms of being accused and actually 492 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: being executed. 493 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 12: So in Salem, about two hundred people are accused of witchcraft, 494 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 12: fifty people about fifty people actually can and said that 495 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 12: they had practiced witchcraft, they had signed a covenant with 496 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 12: the devil, and then nineteen people were convicted and executed, 497 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 12: and then there were several other people who died in 498 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 12: jail during the trials. 499 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 9: Five people died in jail, and one man. 500 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 12: Giles Corey, was pressed to death not as a sentence, 501 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 12: not as an execution, but as part of a fascinating 502 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 12: old timey legal system in which because he didn't enter 503 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 12: a plea, they tried to force his plea of guilty 504 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 12: or not guilty out of. 505 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: Him by stacking rocks on. 506 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 9: Yeah, it's so horrible. 507 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 2: And though, yeah, you know, it is. 508 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: Interesting because you said the number of people who confessed, 509 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: is it safe to say that these were coerced confessions? 510 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 12: Yeah, I think what we know now about false confessions, 511 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 12: I think is really interesting to consider how that might 512 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 12: have played out in Salem today. It would be illegal 513 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 12: to torture someone to get a confession. It's technically illegal 514 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 12: to do that, but there are all sorts of version 515 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 12: that can happen, and actually torture to produce a confession 516 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 12: was also illegal under law at the time in sixteen 517 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 12: ninety two, but their idea of torture and version. 518 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 9: Was different from ours. 519 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 12: So we do have some evidence that some people were 520 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 12: beaten and things that we would consider to be physical 521 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 12: torture as well as mental torture, and then confessed. 522 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: I tracked doctor Pone down after being struck by a 523 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: quote she'd given. You said, the seventeenth century is a 524 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: lot different than today, but people are essentially the same. 525 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: It tells us what could happen in a community where 526 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 1: someone is hated and seen as a target for frustration 527 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: and anger. 528 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 12: Yeah, I still think that's true. I agree with myself, 529 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 12: but it is. It's very difficult to understand the past. 530 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 12: I think it might actually be impossible for us to 531 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 12: ever truly know or understand why people did the things 532 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 12: they did. I think that's a tough question, and so 533 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,959 Speaker 12: because of that, people often prefer a very simple explanation 534 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 12: for Salem. They'll often blame teenage girls, and they'll often 535 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 12: try to create these heroes or these villains in the story. 536 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 12: But it's not that easy. I think all that we 537 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 12: can really do is try to interpret the evidence. Those 538 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 12: interpretations can change. But what we can also do is 539 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 12: just consider that people are still essentially the same. People 540 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 12: often have the same motivations, people experience grief, people still 541 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 12: like to scapegoat each other. So we can look to 542 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 12: the past for clues about things that are happening today, 543 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 12: and I think we can look at Salem as an 544 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 12: example that can tell us some things about what happens 545 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 12: when someone becomes a target or a group of people 546 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 12: become a target for community frustration or anger. We still 547 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 12: have a dominant culture that values some people's lives more 548 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 12: than others. We still live in a patriarchal society. Some 549 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 12: people today still believe pretty similar ideas about women as 550 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 12: they did in the seventeenth century, and they express it. 551 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 12: So I think we can kind of look at some 552 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 12: of those parallel It's hard to draw exact parallels. Actually, 553 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 12: In some of the writing from the time, people like 554 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 12: Cotton Mather had this kind of tendency towards conspiratorial thinking, 555 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 12: which I think we can also see today and makes 556 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 12: this still relevant today. 557 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: For those not familiar, Cotton Mather was a somewhat controversial 558 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: purit enclergyman and author in colonial New England who wrote 559 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: extensively on theological, historical, and scientific subjects. 560 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 12: Cotton either talked about witchcraft as a conspiracy, and I 561 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 12: think sometimes today still like people would rather believe in 562 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 12: a conspiracy than try to actually solve issues or make 563 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 12: changes in. 564 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: Terms of Salem, Massachusetts. However, there have been profound changes 565 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: in terms of the way in which witchcraft and the 566 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: Salem witch Trials are framed. 567 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 12: Since the late nineteenth century, Salem has started to dip 568 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 12: their toe into using this history as a way to 569 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 12: promote tourism. 570 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: When did that start? Because you know, Salem, Massachusetts is 571 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: to witchcraft and witch hunts what colonial Williamsburg is to colonization. 572 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 9: Yep. 573 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 12: Yeah, So I think really the efforts kicked off starting 574 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 12: in the nineteen seventies to make it really a big business. 575 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 12: And that's had a little bit to do with Salem 576 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 12: constantly being portrayed in movies. There's movies from the nineteen 577 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 12: thirties that talk about sit the Salem witch Trials. But 578 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 12: by the nineteen seventies in the early eighties is when 579 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 12: the first museums start to open up in Salem dedicated 580 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 12: to the history of witchcraft and the witch trials. I 581 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 12: think it's nineteen eighty two where the Salem Chamber of 582 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 12: Commerce starts this Haunted Happenings, which is tourists come to 583 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 12: Salem for Halloween. I know that last year Salem tourism 584 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 12: hit a new record, and over a million people visited 585 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 12: Salem in the month of October. So it's big business today. 586 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 2: Really. 587 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 12: Since the eighties, maybe the late seventies too, people who 588 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 12: practice modern witchcraft, whether they're wickan or pagan or some 589 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 12: other form of modern witchcraft, have been drawn to Salem 590 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 12: and have set up there. 591 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 9: Nineteen ninety two was probably a watershed. 592 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 12: Year for Salem in terms of this because that's the 593 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 12: year it was the three hundred anniversary of the witch Trials. 594 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 12: A lot of historians were unpublishing books, new books, new 595 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 12: histories of what happened, so changing our understanding of what happened. 596 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 12: That's the year that they dedicated Witch Trials Memorial Park 597 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 12: in downtown Salem. Some of the modern witches, modern practicing, 598 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 12: which is who had come to Salem and started living there, 599 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 12: protested this new memorial because they felt like it was 600 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 12: giving this idea of witchcraft as sinful and wicked and 601 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 12: demonic this historical ideas. So they objected to some of 602 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 12: the language that it was unfairly stereotyping their beliefs. 603 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road will continue after this. Now back 604 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: to Murder on Songbird Road. Curious I made the road 605 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: trip to Salem to visit the Covens Cottage. The shop, 606 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: Nikki shares with her mother, Michelle, who is Renee high 607 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: Tower's younger sister. 608 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 9: Hi, how are you nice to meet you? 609 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, she looked like your sister. Sorry for 610 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 2: my freezing Cohn. 611 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: Michelle shares a strong resemblance to her older sister Renee, 612 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: though a bit more fair in terms of her coloring 613 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: and clothing, but their voices and intonations are similar. 614 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 9: This is beautiful. 615 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: What a magical shop? No unintended in person, The family 616 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: owned shop resembles the sort of English apothecary you'd imagine 617 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: spotting in a scene from Bridgerton or Harry Potter. Dried flowers, 618 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: organic herbs, and artisanal trinkets adorn the walls and ceilings, 619 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: creating an enchanting atmosphere. 620 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 9: Oh it's awesome, listen to you too. I don't know 621 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 9: what anyone use. 622 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: According to the store's website, they offer a range of Norse, Germanic, 623 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: Celtic and nature based traditions, with items handcrafted by the owners, 624 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: local artisans and practitioners. Selections include all natural teas, oils, balms, 625 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: soaps and salves in addition to themed gifts, de core, 626 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: and books, the shop exudes a magical vibe that's more whimsical, 627 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: fairy like charm than ominous. I was going to teach 628 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: you when we first met. I was going to say, so, 629 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: are you a good witch or a bad witch? 630 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,840 Speaker 2: You must get that all the time sometimes. Yeah. 631 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 13: I think the best way to respond to that is, 632 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,359 Speaker 13: witches are people. So it's just like you have good 633 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 13: people and bad people. It's not black magic, white magic. 634 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 13: That kind of thing is just magic. Whatever the person 635 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 13: decides to do with it is that person. Under those guidelines, 636 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 13: I would be a good witch. 637 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 2: I suppose. 638 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: The shop is nestled on Essex Street, a historic retail 639 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: stretch in downtown Salem. If you've never visited the small 640 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: Massachusetts city, as Nikki described, it's thoroughly steeped in witchcraft 641 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,959 Speaker 1: themed tourism. It's no exaggeration to say you'd be hard 642 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: pressed to cast a stone without hitting a broomstick or 643 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: a pointy black hat. That said, you'd also be hard 644 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 1: pressed to find anything overly touristy or cheesy in this shop. 645 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: That's a choice. According to Michelle, we. 646 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 2: Always wanted to own a shop with my daughter. 647 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 13: So our ideal would be to be a nice, peaceful 648 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 13: store and help you each person that comes in. 649 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 2: But in October it can be really chaotic. It's it's 650 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 2: I mean, it's beautiful. 651 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 8: There's there's something. 652 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,280 Speaker 2: This is our brand of witchcraft. 653 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's very earthy, very kind of organic feeling. 654 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: It has absolutely a magical feel to it, but in 655 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: a very artisan way. And it has a timelessness to it. 656 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: You feel like you've walked back in time when you 657 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: walk it. 658 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 13: Yeah, it's like walking into another world, is how people 659 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 13: describe it. 660 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: And it's very very much feels like a celebration of nature. 661 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,439 Speaker 2: Which is what basically what paganism is. That's my side. 662 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 2: If people read a book, they. 663 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 13: Would see it has nothing to do with worshiping the 664 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 13: devil and all that. It's very much nature based and 665 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 13: agricultural based. 666 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: As for the association of witchcraft and Salem being used 667 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: against her niece Julia Beverly and in relay to Jade 668 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: Beasley's murder, Michelle believes it comes with the territory. 669 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 13: Literally, we moved to southern Illinois when I was eleven. 670 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 13: My husband is born and raised in southern Illinois, and 671 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 13: then We lived there until two thousand and nine, so 672 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 13: our kids went to school. 673 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 2: There, grew up there. So yeah, we have known the 674 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 2: whole area. 675 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: For someone who hasn't been there or not familiar with 676 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: the area, how would you categorize it in terms of 677 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: just the overall mindset of the community. Is it liberal? 678 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: Is it conservative? 679 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,399 Speaker 13: Political wise? Tends to lean more conservative. It is very 680 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 13: much a Bible belt area when it comes to religion. 681 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 13: I think they're very closed minded, extremely closed minded, and 682 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 13: that is. 683 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 2: Part of why we moved away. 684 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 13: I'm a practicing which I have been since I was sixteen, 685 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 13: and it's misunderstood by a lot of people. Not just 686 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 13: people in that area, but a lot of people in 687 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 13: that area. Won't say all, but a lot of them 688 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 13: are unwilling to educate themselves otherwise they are set. 689 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 2: In their ways. 690 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 13: You know, it's Satanic, even though the whole concept of 691 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 13: Satan is a Christian belief. It's not pagan in any way, 692 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,760 Speaker 13: So that guy belongs to them. 693 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 2: Not us. 694 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: Religious debate aside, Michelle's emotions became authentically overwhelming for her 695 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: when the topic turned to Jade. How do you describe 696 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: your emotion and where does it come from? What is 697 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: the feeling that you have about all of this. 698 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, I would say it's. 699 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 13: Absolute horror and sympathy for Jade. 700 00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 5: I was not. 701 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 13: I wasn't super close to Jade because of the distance 702 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 13: we live, but she's an eleven year old girl. 703 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 2: And that is absolutely horrible. 704 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: During the trial, Michelle stayed back in Salem to watch 705 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: Nicki's three children while her daughter traveled to testify on 706 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 1: behalf of her cousin, Julia Beverley's character. They didn't realize 707 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: their efforts would backfire and be used against Beverly. 708 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 13: It all hinged on the shop that we own, where 709 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 13: the shop is, what kind of shop it is. 710 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 2: I don't know how a shop. 711 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 13: In Salem, Massachusetts has anything to do with a trial 712 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 13: in southern Illinois that Nicki is not a part of 713 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 13: other than being a character witness. Our shop and her profession, 714 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 13: her occupation has nothing to do with that. But they 715 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 13: seem to harp on that, and that struck Nicki as 716 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 13: very odd. 717 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 2: But she knew what was going on. What do you 718 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:04,879 Speaker 2: think was going on? 719 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 13: I think that they were trying to another swaying of opinions. 720 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 13: They're trying to make people believe that Julie is associated 721 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 13: with witchcraft in some way, but their idea of what 722 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 13: witchcraft is. The people down there associate witchcraft with something evil, 723 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 13: So they're trying to associate evil with Julie. 724 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 1: And negate Nikki's character reference because she's a witch. And 725 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,400 Speaker 1: then when you hear witchcraft murdered eleven year. 726 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 13: Old, right, well, she had to have done it because 727 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 13: she's an evil witch. I mean, I think that was 728 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 13: their goal there. She's been raised in this. Look, her 729 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 13: cousin is a witch. They own a shop and sale 730 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 13: on that kind of thing. They don't realize that on 731 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 13: a grander scale, this isn't a big thing to people. 732 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 13: It's another religion. It's protected in. 733 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: The absence of actual evidence. 734 00:42:58,920 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 9: It's in you and. 735 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: Could have been used to railroad a potentially innocent woman. 736 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 2: Right, which a lot of people seem to be okay with. 737 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: On the next murder on Songbird Road, access to the 738 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: dispatch records from the day of the murder raises new questions. 739 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 14: It's important if we can find out if, in fact, 740 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 14: they had sent officers out to that area based on 741 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 14: the other fall saying dude just ran through my backyard 742 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 14: and all black. 743 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: As does another description of an alleged intruder given to authorities. 744 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 10: Well it struck me is this description of whoever called in. 745 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 7: They were looking for a person in a dark hoodie 746 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 7: and dark ants. 747 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: And Julia Beverly lands on the radar of a formidable activist. 748 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: Jason Flom Bob, Bob, Jason, Nice to meet you. Man. 749 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: Murder on Songbird Road is a production of iHeart Podcasts. 750 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Taylor Chackoine and Lauren Bright Pacheco. 751 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: Research writing and hosting by Lauren Bright Pacheco. Investigative reporting 752 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: by Bob Matta and Lauren Bright Pacheco. Editing, sound design 753 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: and original music by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chaqoine. Additional 754 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: music by Asher Kurtz. Please like, subscribe, and leave us 755 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: a review. Wherever you're listening, You can follow me on 756 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,399 Speaker 1: all platforms at Lauren Bright Pacheco and email the show 757 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: with thought, suggestions or tips at Investigating Murder at iHeartMedia 758 00:44:40,320 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: dot com. For more iHeart podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app, 759 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,479 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Thanks 760 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: for listening.