WEBVTT - A New World of Work is Revealed

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. I have

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<v Speaker 1>to say I love the first line of a recent

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<v Speaker 1>essay that was written by our next guest one is

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<v Speaker 1>the year our relationship with work change forever. This is

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<v Speaker 1>something I agree that we're gonna be looking back ten

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<v Speaker 1>years from now and saying this is when it all

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<v Speaker 1>started to change. The question is the question is what

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<v Speaker 1>the what changes stick and what to what extent do

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<v Speaker 1>we go back to the old normal? Hey? Those words

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<v Speaker 1>were written by Dan Shapiro, the chief operating officer of LinkedIn.

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<v Speaker 1>He joins us once again on Bloomberg Business Week from

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<v Speaker 1>the on the phone from Palo Alto, California, Dan, how

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<v Speaker 1>are you good? How are you Hey? We're doing pretty well. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really great to have you back, especially after such

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<v Speaker 1>a wild year when it comes to the way that

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<v Speaker 1>that people feel about work and the and the relationship

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<v Speaker 1>and the changing relationship that they're they're having with work. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you write about something that you call the Great Reshuffle.

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<v Speaker 1>What is that? The Great Reshuffle? Is this idea that

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<v Speaker 1>right now more people are reconsidering what they want to

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<v Speaker 1>doing their jobs and what they want to do with

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<v Speaker 1>their careers at any time in recent memory. We run

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<v Speaker 1>a survey at LinkedIn that suggested that of professionals in

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<v Speaker 1>America are going to rethink what they want to do.

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<v Speaker 1>And what's interesting is that that is happening at a

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<v Speaker 1>time when there's hasn't been a tighter labor market for

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<v Speaker 1>professionals in recent memory. The economy is growing again, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a massive imbalance in supply and demand for digital skills.

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<v Speaker 1>And what that means is that as we come out

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<v Speaker 1>of this pandemic period, as the world becomes more endemic

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<v Speaker 1>and companies reconsider their policies for how they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>work in this new world, that employees have a much

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<v Speaker 1>stronger voice than they used to in this resetting the expectation.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's gonna be a really interesting year. So I

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<v Speaker 1>do wonder too, though, Dawn, like I feel like the

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<v Speaker 1>pendulum can swing big time and workers do it does

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<v Speaker 1>feel like they are in the driver's seat right now,

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<v Speaker 1>as so many employees pick your employees. They're all scrambling

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<v Speaker 1>for workers. So employees in many ways and set their terms.

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<v Speaker 1>Does that stick when the labor market corrects itself and

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<v Speaker 1>a more normal labor market is back with us To

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<v Speaker 1>do workers continue to have that leverage and that power.

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<v Speaker 1>The only time will tell that. I think there's reason

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<v Speaker 1>to believe that digital skills in particular are going to

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<v Speaker 1>remain very tight for the foreseeable future. If you look

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<v Speaker 1>at what's happened over the last few years, we were

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<v Speaker 1>already on this journey around companies going through this idea

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<v Speaker 1>of digital transformation really digitizing their businesses, and the pandemic

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<v Speaker 1>only accelerated that. If you think about the expectations consumers

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<v Speaker 1>have now about what they expect when they interact with

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<v Speaker 1>a restaurant or a retailer, it is a much more

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<v Speaker 1>digital experience, and that's placing more and more burdens operationally

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<v Speaker 1>on the companies that need digital talent to make those

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<v Speaker 1>things real. So that is likely to continue for quite

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<v Speaker 1>some time, and that will likely drive some of the

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<v Speaker 1>policies and practices that many companies adopt. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>that there's some real staying power here. What about for

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<v Speaker 1>elements of this that that don't stay do we? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're already seeing companies call their workers back to work

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<v Speaker 1>right now, but we're seeing some shifts. You know, Carol

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<v Speaker 1>and I talked about Apollo for for for private equity

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<v Speaker 1>employees offering that one month of remote work. That's something

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<v Speaker 1>that Carol, I mean, you've covered this stuff forever. That's

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<v Speaker 1>that was unthinkable a few years ago, right, Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really fascinating to see, like even the financial firms

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<v Speaker 1>have been pushing back, saying, okay, you can work from home.

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<v Speaker 1>So Dane, where are the things that go back to

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<v Speaker 1>what they were where they were before? What are the

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<v Speaker 1>changes that don't stick? I wish I had a crystal ball.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the thing that is most resonant with

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<v Speaker 1>employees right now is this concept of flexibility. Uh, people

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<v Speaker 1>are happier, They report being happier when their jobs are

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<v Speaker 1>more flexible. You see that looking at remote jobs is

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<v Speaker 1>something that if you look at all the jobs on

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<v Speaker 1>LinkedIn and how many people were viewing different kinds of jobs.

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<v Speaker 1>Just a few years ago, less than ten percent of

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<v Speaker 1>the jobs were remote eligible that people looked at. That

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<v Speaker 1>number is now for a percent of all the job

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<v Speaker 1>viewing as people curious about remote roles, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>think that the idea of flexibility is something that has

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<v Speaker 1>staying power exactly where the lines are drawn about what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of flexibility works such that businesses can meet their

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<v Speaker 1>needs and the teams can be functioning. I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be something where everyone's watching everyone in time

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<v Speaker 1>will tell you know. I recently UM caught up at

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<v Speaker 1>the CEO of Cisco and Chuck Robbins, and even he conceded,

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<v Speaker 1>and a company like Cisco, they have been doing hybrid work,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for years pre pandemic. That's just the way

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<v Speaker 1>many of the tech industry have been working. But even

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<v Speaker 1>he acknowledged Um being a little surprised at how innovative

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<v Speaker 1>everybody really could be during the pandemic. Technology has made

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<v Speaker 1>that much more possible. Like I think about, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>as much as we make fun of all the zoom

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<v Speaker 1>calls and things, you really can almost feel like you're

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<v Speaker 1>with people. Yeah, I think we're going to see a

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<v Speaker 1>tremendous amount of technological innovation in this space. Every leader

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<v Speaker 1>has likely gone through a journey of being skeptical about

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<v Speaker 1>how teams would operate when they were from home or

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<v Speaker 1>in a hybrid capacity, and things have worked in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of ways better than expected. And that is coming

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<v Speaker 1>at a time when there's more investment from software companies

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<v Speaker 1>and trying to make this better for people. So if

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<v Speaker 1>those things come together, I think, I think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of optimism. At least I hold that these working

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<v Speaker 1>styles will be effective. But exactly where we land, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>is it's going to be something we'll have to see.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think, Dan, honestly, anything is lost without being

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<v Speaker 1>in person with one another because I do what I can.

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<v Speaker 1>What I can say is that we have, on occasion

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<v Speaker 1>at LinkedIn had opportunities in a way that was safe

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<v Speaker 1>and in compliance with health guidelines. We've had opportunities for

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<v Speaker 1>some teams to spend time together in person, and it

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<v Speaker 1>is like a spark of energy. It is a breath

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<v Speaker 1>of share. People love having those moments. Now, whether that

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<v Speaker 1>becomes people something people do more periodically as opposed to

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<v Speaker 1>every day, it's interesting. Um, But I think you will

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<v Speaker 1>continue to see the power of being together and creating

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<v Speaker 1>connection is being really fundamental to how great teams work. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Dan eager to talk to you about this story that

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<v Speaker 1>we highlighted a little earlier in our broadcast about New

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<v Speaker 1>York City requiring employers to list the minimum and maximum

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<v Speaker 1>salaries on job postings. That's going to start this spring.

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<v Speaker 1>According to the Wall Street Journal, it's getting some opposition

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<v Speaker 1>from business groups. Can you talk a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>the way that being transparent with these positions when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to salary can empower workers? Absolutely? Well, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>broad trend. Um. The trend towards salary transparency has been

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<v Speaker 1>happening for years, and I think one of the guiding

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<v Speaker 1>principles behind it is that there's evidence to suggest that

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<v Speaker 1>it helps remove bias in the process. Um. Some people

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<v Speaker 1>of different backgrounds negotiate differently, and oftentimes the transparency that

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<v Speaker 1>you can bring to the conversation yields outcomes where there

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<v Speaker 1>is less bias in terms of pay um. And so

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's one of these is driving it, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's something that we think it's a positive. Are

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<v Speaker 1>you seeing more companies post on linked in those salary

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<v Speaker 1>ranges for jobs that are being offered, Like, do you

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<v Speaker 1>have any data that that that shows that the trend

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<v Speaker 1>is happening on LinkedIn too? I don't have any data

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<v Speaker 1>myself right now, but I know it's a broad trend

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<v Speaker 1>that's going on in the industry. So it's no please continue, please.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing that's going on is Obviously we're an

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<v Speaker 1>increasingly inflationary environment and companies are trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 1>how that's going to play out in their in their

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<v Speaker 1>compensation packages, and particularly as it's a tight labor market,

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<v Speaker 1>workers are asking questions around how does that what does

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<v Speaker 1>that mean for my pay? And similarly, companies are grappling

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<v Speaker 1>with as employees are working in different locations in the

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<v Speaker 1>same job, how do they reconcile whether they pay different

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<v Speaker 1>amounts in different cities for similar work. So what we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to find as we enter two is a world

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<v Speaker 1>where executive teams are gonna have to think through pay

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<v Speaker 1>policies um as one of the core questions that they

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<v Speaker 1>asked themselves. Yeah, that's an interesting one because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen over the last few decades Americans just don't

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<v Speaker 1>move around anymore. And this flexibility of being able to

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<v Speaker 1>work at home, if you think about it, even on

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<v Speaker 1>a global scale, you can kind of potentially work anywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>raise your family anywhere, um and maybe work for any company.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's kind of mind blowing, Dan, if you

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<v Speaker 1>think about that, it's opening up a lot of opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>for people, and honestly, it's opening up a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity for companies that are able to adapt to these

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<v Speaker 1>new working styles and tap into labor pools that weren't

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<v Speaker 1>possible in the past. So I think this is like

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<v Speaker 1>any moment where the rules are changing, there are going

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<v Speaker 1>to be winners and losers. And I think companies and

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<v Speaker 1>people that adapt to the new norms are going to

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<v Speaker 1>do quite well well. And so that's something I want

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<v Speaker 1>to just push you a little bit because there are

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<v Speaker 1>companies that are like, Yeah, this is just a temporary thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think they're wrong in thinking that? And those

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<v Speaker 1>companies that don't embrace more flexibility in their workforce where

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<v Speaker 1>they can, will they be left time? Will they be penalized?

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<v Speaker 1>I think that flexibility is here to stay. I think

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<v Speaker 1>what that means in a given industry or for a

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<v Speaker 1>given company, I think we'll learn over time. But the

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<v Speaker 1>reason the flexibility I think it's here to stay is

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<v Speaker 1>because they're continue to be core talent in digital areas,

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<v Speaker 1>technical skills that are going to remain an incredibly high demand,

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<v Speaker 1>and those are some of the loudest voices that are

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<v Speaker 1>asking for this kind of flexibility. And so until we

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<v Speaker 1>see a market where those dynamics aren't in play. I

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<v Speaker 1>think flexibility in some form is going to be part

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<v Speaker 1>of our future. Dan, I'm I'm wondering about what you

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<v Speaker 1>think about how employees can help shape the future of

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<v Speaker 1>their workplace. If somebody's listening right now, are watching us

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<v Speaker 1>right now, what advice would you give them about how

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<v Speaker 1>they can use this as sort of this rare moment

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<v Speaker 1>in the history of us work to really shape the

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<v Speaker 1>workplace how they want to see it. Well, I would,

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<v Speaker 1>I would uh encourage everyone to think about what it

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<v Speaker 1>feels like to be a manager right now. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>hard job to be a manager. The playbooks that you

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<v Speaker 1>probably learned over the course of your career. Two, connect

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<v Speaker 1>with your team to help them learn their job, to

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<v Speaker 1>onboard new employees. It is a very different environment than

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<v Speaker 1>we had just a few years ago. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>would start if I were at a UM, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if from a company perspective of think about the roles

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<v Speaker 1>that your frontline managers are playing, Interview them, listen to

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<v Speaker 1>what they're going through, and help bring them tools and

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<v Speaker 1>frameworks to help them be successful. Because the greatest companies

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<v Speaker 1>and the greatest employee cultures often are built off of

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<v Speaker 1>exceptional frontline managers, and I think that's a place where

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<v Speaker 1>every company can focus. All right, we're gonna leave it

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<v Speaker 1>on that note. Hey, so nice to catch up with you, Dan.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. Have a good weekend. Dan Shapiro,

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<v Speaker 1>he's chief operating officer at LinkedIn, on the phone from

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<v Speaker 1>Palo Alto, California,