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Speaker 1: Hey, listeners, you're about to listen to a great interview

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Speaker 1: with my good friend Stephen Kellogg. We had such a

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Speaker 1: good conversation, but I think the mediast part is something

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Speaker 1: really relatable. We talk about being this age. For me

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Speaker 1: it's forty six, for him it's just a couple of

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Speaker 1: years older and figuring out where we are in our careers.

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Speaker 1: What is it about this age that makes us ask

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Speaker 1: so many questions about what have I accomplished? Have I

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Speaker 1: done the things I want to do? What's next? Can

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Speaker 1: I do something different? Why does it feel so existential

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Speaker 1: at this age to be thinking about your career. I

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Speaker 1: want to hear from you. Please write us at off

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Speaker 1: the Cup at gmail dot com. That's cup with two p's,

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Speaker 1: just like the podcast. Listen for that in my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Stephen and tell me what you're thinking to.

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Speaker 2: So I'm a little bit over some of the things

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Speaker 2: you know? Are you just being the touring singer songwriter guy.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Off the Cup my personal anti anxiety and

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Speaker 1: no politics, no polarization, just good convos with interesting people.

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Speaker 1: It's a special Off the Cup for a few reasons. First,

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Speaker 1: I'm in studio with my guests, which is always fun. Second,

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Speaker 1: today's guest is an actual friend. Does anybody have actual

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Speaker 1: friends or a lot of people in my business have

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Speaker 1: like industry friends and then they call them friends. This

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Speaker 1: is an actual friend, and he's one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: people on the planet. And that's not because he's massively talented,

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Speaker 1: which he is. It's not because he was my husband

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Speaker 1: in my first date, which he was. We'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: It's not because he is so wise and so funny,

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Speaker 1: which he is. It's because he's one of the most genuine, thoughtful,

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Speaker 1: kind and caring people I know, and I'm so lucky

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Speaker 1: to call him and his wonderful family friends. You may

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Speaker 1: know him as the frontman of the Sixers. You may

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Speaker 1: know his viral ted talk on job satisfaction or his

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Speaker 1: book Objects in the Mirror. He's a prolific singer songwriter

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Speaker 1: who's toured with everyone from Counting Crows to Oar, Josh

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Speaker 1: Ritter to the Spin Doctors and so many more. You

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Speaker 1: can catch him now on the Old Friend's Tour, and

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Speaker 1: he's got a new stand up special in the works.

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Speaker 1: It's my friend Stephen Kellogg.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, Hey, how you doing good? I was love, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's rare. You get to hear a friend sum up

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Speaker 1: your importance to them and who they think you are.

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Speaker 1: It's such a gift. I really like to make it.

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Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, first all, that would be like a

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Speaker 2: cool thing to do for each other. I mean that

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Speaker 2: because that was that really was lovely. I was like,

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Speaker 2: it made me feel like someone I don't always feel like.

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Speaker 1: That was very we get it, I get it. But

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Speaker 1: that's the beauty of interviewing a friend. I know you

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Speaker 1: and I want to, you know, give your flowers.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Uh, this is fun and weird. Like I was saying,

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Speaker 1: we're not industry friends. We might have started sort of

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Speaker 1: as industry friends because we had adjacent interests, although that's

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Speaker 1: not how we came to know each other. But we

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Speaker 1: hang out. Our family is our friends. We have a

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Speaker 1: diners club, right, what do we regularly do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I love I love our dinners.

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Speaker 2: I like when we I like when we go hard,

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Speaker 2: go to fancy places sometimes steak.

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Speaker 3: Steak is kind of the thing.

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Speaker 1: Steak is the thing that ties and binds us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is steak.

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Speaker 2: And yes, yes, you know, how did we meet? Well,

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Speaker 2: so I'm gonna it was Twitter. It was it was

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Speaker 2: like one of the good things that I really liked

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Speaker 2: about Twitter. I felt like Twitter was a great way

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Speaker 2: to stay in touch with people, you know where you're like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what this is. It's not you're not

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Speaker 2: necessarily cell phone level yet, but uh. And I think

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Speaker 2: that there was a tweet that you where you mentioned

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Speaker 2: myself and John McLaughlin because we were at the nine

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Speaker 2: thirty Club, right, So.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, Yes, my husband and I my now husband.

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Speaker 1: Let me just say, we had been dating a little

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Speaker 1: on the down low, okay, because you know, we were

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Speaker 1: both in DC and on the hill and people knew us.

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Speaker 1: We weren't like an out and about public couple yet.

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Speaker 1: So our first public date was your show at nine

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Speaker 1: thirty Club with John McLaughlin because my husband was a

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Speaker 1: big fan. Yeah, he was a fan of yours. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't know you were John at the time, huh,

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Speaker 1: but I knew John listened to you a lot, so

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Speaker 1: i'd heard your songs. We went, We had the best time.

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Speaker 1: It was such a good show, and I remember it

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Speaker 1: viscerally like all of you, you, your band, John mcgaughlin's

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Speaker 1: man all around the mic. Yeah, oh, all these crazy

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Speaker 1: times yeah, oh it was.

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Speaker 2: Such a great show, right yeah, yeah, we sang that,

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Speaker 2: and John and I had gotten to the habit of

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Speaker 2: taking each other to make it crack each other up.

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Speaker 2: During each other's set, we would go through each other's

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Speaker 2: suitcases and pull out I would put John's clothes on

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Speaker 2: and go on stage. So there was always this funny

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Speaker 2: moment of recognition when you'd see what item of clothing one.

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Speaker 3: Of us had on its horrible it was that was like.

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Speaker 2: That was a great moment of touring and and back.

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Speaker 2: It was like pretty heavy social media, so I'm sure

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Speaker 2: we wouldn't have It wasn't like you didn't go to

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Speaker 2: concerts and posts that you were there, so we never

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Speaker 2: knew when there was a notable people at concerts, right right, right, Well.

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Speaker 1: And then we yeah, so then I started following you

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Speaker 1: maybe on Twitter, and yeah, we noticed each other's tweets,

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Speaker 1: I think is what happened. And then maybe DMed about

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Speaker 1: some things we had in common.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just friendly. Yeah, well we were we were talking

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Speaker 2: about that, Yeah we should do something.

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Speaker 3: What more?

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Speaker 2: You know, you do feel at some at some point

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Speaker 2: I think it goes from you feel like you have

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Speaker 2: to be you two to make an impact in the world,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, I might never be you too,

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Speaker 2: I better get to it. And I think we were

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Speaker 2: talking about that and we ended up, you know, doing.

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Speaker 1: We did, and because my husband liked you. This is

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Speaker 1: like sanctioned conversation people, well, don't go crazy, well you know,

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Speaker 1: completely above board, profession but friendly. And then I was

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Speaker 1: going to do an event in the city for Innaro,

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Speaker 1: one of the charities I work for, and it was

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Speaker 1: a performance event, and so we asked if you'd come

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Speaker 1: and sing as part of this event, and you did

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Speaker 1: and you were wonderful, and that's when we met met.

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Speaker 2: It was awesome and I love obviously I love John,

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Speaker 2: your husband as well too.

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Speaker 3: It was very instantaneous.

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Speaker 2: I do feel like, if we're going to talk about this,

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Speaker 2: we should mention that Anthony Ramos of Hamilton and Beyond fame. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really I then and now don't always do

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Speaker 2: all my research.

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Speaker 3: So he came back stage and.

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Speaker 1: He was there for this event as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he was there.

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Speaker 2: His ex partner was performing, and so I was unaware

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Speaker 2: of who he was. I think I might have known

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Speaker 2: that he had been in the cast of Hamilton, but

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Speaker 2: he came back and he paid me a very nice compliment.

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Speaker 2: He said, you know, guys like you who are very

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Speaker 2: specific with your lyrics really paved the.

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Speaker 3: Way for guys like me. It was such a nice

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Speaker 3: thing to say.

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Speaker 2: And I immediately go into like wise old owl mode.

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Speaker 2: And I hear that that he's gonna got an album

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Speaker 2: coming out, and I mean, I just short of calling

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Speaker 2: him son. Yeah, I'm like, and I said, you know,

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Speaker 2: you guys want to make sure you call each other

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Speaker 2: at least every twelve days. If not that you've got

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Speaker 2: to really see each other every twelve days, and you

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Speaker 2: should call each other every day, spend ten minutes.

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Speaker 3: I was so giving out the advice.

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Speaker 2: Like it's nothing. And a month later, I think we

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Speaker 2: saw him at the Grammys and then my daughters saw

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Speaker 2: him on a Calvin Klient billboard and we're.

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Speaker 3: Like, I was like, that's the guy I was giving

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Speaker 3: advice to. And they're like, oh my god, Dad, you're

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Speaker 3: kidding me.

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Speaker 1: I remember that. Yeah, because no, Hamilton was big, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't the it hadn't exploded quite yet.

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Speaker 2: Maybe well also he was he's like the guy in Hamilton.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it would have been neat to meet anybody.

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Speaker 2: But he is one idea. Yeah he was, he's he

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Speaker 2: is a big deal.

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Speaker 1: And I bet he's left your advice at heart and

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Speaker 1: he will always remember the old man.

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Speaker 2: I know, the obscure Americana songwriter being like, listen to me,

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Speaker 2: young man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, that was a great night. Look, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you about so much because in

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Speaker 1: so many ways you're the perfect Off the Cup guest

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Speaker 1: because here we talk about parenting, mental health, career arcs, managing,

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Speaker 1: getting older, you know, evolving in our lives. There's so

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Speaker 1: much there for you. But first I always like to ask,

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Speaker 1: what kind of kid were you?

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Speaker 2: I was super serious, super serious. I remember my mom

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Speaker 2: has told me that in kindergarten they were worried about

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Speaker 2: They said they almost wanted me to get in more trouble.

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Speaker 2: And I'm in my forties now, hanging on to my forties,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like, I mean I was. I am

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Speaker 2: the most comfortable I've ever been. I was definitely waiting

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Speaker 2: to be an adult, and I found childhood to be.

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Speaker 3: Really stressful because.

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Speaker 2: You're surrounded by kids and care freeness, and I just

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Speaker 2: didn't have I have been serious. I have felt like

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Speaker 2: death could be right around the corner since I was

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Speaker 2: a kid, you know, And thinking about this recently, I

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Speaker 2: did go to sleep to Cat Stevens's tea for the

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Speaker 2: Tillerman album Every Night, which is really kid as a kid,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of a sad you know, And I

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Speaker 2: sometimes think about did it just fit my disposition then?

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Speaker 2: Or am I slightly melancholy now because I did just

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Speaker 2: my night I'm having these like sad ass songs pounded

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Speaker 2: into my brain.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know. I was serious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that's interesting. I was too in a way,

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Speaker 1: not that I couldn't have a laugh, I love, you know.

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Speaker 1: I could get very hyper and sort of you know, excitable,

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Speaker 1: but I was anxious and I wasn't worried. Death was

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Speaker 1: around every corner, but I I was waiting for the

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Speaker 1: next thing to happen. When are we gonna move again?

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Speaker 1: My parent's gonna get divorced again? You know, there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of anxiety. Have you thought back to what

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Speaker 1: your childhood was like and maybe asked why you were

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Speaker 1: so serious or worried as a kid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I think about it to

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Speaker 2: a degree, especially when I was kind of trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out certain things ways of being as an adult

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Speaker 2: that I was trying to, you know, have been trying

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Speaker 2: to sort of sort out, Like, for instance, I've played

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Speaker 2: a lot of shows, almost three thousand then, right, and

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Speaker 2: and yet I spent the first fifteen years of shows

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Speaker 2: going on stages though it were war, you know, as

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Speaker 2: though it was like Braveheart, and I assuming assuming people

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Speaker 2: would not like me unless I somehow won them over.

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Speaker 1: You had to prove yourself, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Big time.

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Speaker 2: You know, like I kind of saw everybody as an enemy,

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Speaker 2: which sounds crazy because my music's sort of affable and I, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, but that's how it felt. And I did,

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Speaker 2: I did, I don't do. I don't play that way anymore.

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Speaker 2: I go on and assume people will probably like it,

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Speaker 2: and if they don't, that's okay. You know, it's not

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Speaker 2: everybody's thing. And I think that some of that must

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Speaker 2: have come from childhood, because I didn't always feel and

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Speaker 2: this would be painful for my parents to hear. It

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Speaker 2: had nothing to do with them. But I didn't always

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Speaker 2: feel safe, you know, you know, these are It wasn't

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Speaker 2: tragedies on a big scale, but I was mugged a

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Speaker 2: few times.

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Speaker 3: I was beat up in high school.

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Speaker 2: I I felt like if I made myself too big,

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Speaker 2: it caused problems for me. And that's that's weird when

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Speaker 2: you sort of have an artistic disposition where you you

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Speaker 2: want to stand.

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Speaker 3: Out and be special, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're like, so this could be a liability,

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Speaker 2: you know, And I mean that's it's not something I

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Speaker 2: think or talk about a lot. But you know you're asking,

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Speaker 2: and it does. It brings up feelings you remember, you remember,

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Speaker 2: you know what it was like to sort of lay

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Speaker 2: there and wonder if you're going to get hassled at

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Speaker 2: school the next day or whatever. You know, those things, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think they drive artistic dispositions into art.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it is Christ for the mill too.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: So can I ask were you a did you get

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Speaker 2: involved in games because you're good at so many things?

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Speaker 2: Were you like, were you in the mix as a

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Speaker 2: Did you appear to feel comfortable in your when you

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Speaker 2: were in school?

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Speaker 1: It depended. I moved a thousand times, and so I

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Speaker 1: was always auditioning for the new group, and like you,

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Speaker 1: was I being too big for this group? Did they

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Speaker 1: want me to be a smaller person? Okay? That's who

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Speaker 1: I am? Is being smart, cool, in this school, then

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Speaker 1: I'll be smart. Is being smart not cool in this school,

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Speaker 1: then I won't be smart. I was always adapting for

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Speaker 1: the new school. And some were wonderful and I had

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Speaker 1: friends instantly and like never wanted to leave, and then

259
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Speaker 1: of course did and some were awful and I was

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Speaker 1: you know, got harassed, bullied, picked on, you know. So

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Speaker 1: I had a little of everything, yeah, and very little stability.

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Speaker 1: And this is not a knock on my parents either.

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Speaker 1: My my parents were great, are great. I had a

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Speaker 1: great childhood, but there was a lot of moving, instability

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Speaker 1: and anxiety for me. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm learning now

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Speaker 1: how that's manifesting, right, I guess.

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Speaker 2: We all that's the age sort of that we're in now.

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Speaker 2: But then, so this is interesting though, because my folks,

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Speaker 2: I think there is a tendency to say no, no,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't like that, and I'm like, what it feels

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Speaker 2: like it was that way to me, and that is

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Speaker 2: my prerogative. Just like with my own kids, I have

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Speaker 2: to accept that they're going to have their own narrative

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Speaker 2: of all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: And that's hard. I do get it.

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Speaker 2: And then I went through a yearbook recently and people

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Speaker 2: wrote really nice things, and I'm like, did I have

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Speaker 2: I have I constructed this to support my artists and

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, but I did feel

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Speaker 2: I can remember the visceral feeling of Cat Stevens and

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Speaker 2: a little bit of fear and just it was stressful,

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Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, I was really. I feel like my

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Speaker 2: life began when I was eighteen, you know.

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Speaker 1: Same I got to college and found myself, found my people.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes when I think about my son, you know, Jack,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's an anxious kid and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: going on in his head at all times, and I

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Speaker 1: just wonder his childhood going to be the hard part

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Speaker 1: for him, and adulthood's going to be great, you know.

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Speaker 1: That's what I hope, And you know, not to make

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Speaker 1: childhood so big. Maybe he's gonna have an easier time

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Speaker 1: next year or starting middle school whatever, but he's an

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Speaker 1: anxious kid and so was I, and I just hope

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Speaker 1: in adulthood he really finds himself and it gets like

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Speaker 1: gets easier, yeah for.

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Speaker 2: Him, I hope. So yeah, forever, Yeah, that's it would be.

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Speaker 2: It feels like that's the arc, you know, yeah, if

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Speaker 2: the child if your childhood was your best days I

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Speaker 2: don't really understand those people.

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Speaker 1: Well that's a whole other thing. Yeah, I don't understand

301
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Speaker 1: them either. You grew up in Massachusetts mostly.

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Speaker 2: I mostly grew up in Connecticut.

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Speaker 3: Actually okay, but but.

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Speaker 2: I things started in Massachusetts and I had a I

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Speaker 2: have like a farmer there. My family was split between

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Speaker 2: farmers and academics, which explains a lot. Yes, you know,

307
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Speaker 2: I mean like that is that's all going on. But

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Speaker 2: my family, in order to get away from the farmer

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Speaker 2: side of things, I think, moved to Connecticut and got it.

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Speaker 2: And so I lived in Bridgeport, Connecticut and Fairfield, Connecticut.

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Speaker 1: So unlike me, because I, i'd say, mostly grew up

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Speaker 1: Masachusetts despite all the moves. Unlike me, I don't think

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Speaker 1: Duncan Donuts is like your entire personality.

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Speaker 2: No, right, right, I see that your I see that

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Speaker 2: on Yourstagram though you're you're a diehard good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, let's go. Yes, it's a major part of my.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing, definitely.

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Speaker 1: So I know the answer to this. But you met

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Speaker 1: your wife when.

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Speaker 2: We met when we were I was just about to

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Speaker 2: turn sixteen, first weekend of junior year of high school

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Speaker 2: at a mixer, and it was if there, if there.

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Speaker 3: Were a movie, it felt like dream weaver moment.

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Speaker 2: You know, I definitely saw her there, and if you

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Speaker 2: asked her about how it felt, she would she would

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Speaker 2: tamp it down a little bit. I mean, people were like,

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Speaker 2: when did you fall in love with him? She's like,

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Speaker 2: I think a little after college, which means we'd been

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Speaker 2: together nine years at that point. I'm like, oh, no, no,

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Speaker 2: none taken. But it was it was very thunderbolty for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you guys have such a great family. You

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Speaker 1: must have weathered a lot. You've been together so much.

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Speaker 1: You're a touring musician. That's it's not easy on the

335
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Speaker 1: strongest of marriages, and yet you've raised like such down

336
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Speaker 1: to earth, grounded girls. You have four daughters. Just looking

337
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 1: back in totality, how do you think, top line, how

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Speaker 1: do you think you did it and capture family together?

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for saying that, And I you know,

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Speaker 2: it feels very much like a work in progress. I'm

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Speaker 2: still trying to make sure that this turns out inasmuch

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Speaker 2: as I have any control over it. Well, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I think there were adjustments. I don't I'm going to

344
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,760
Speaker 2: get like choked up saying this, but I feel that

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Speaker 2: really that was the biggest That was the lynchpin to my.

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Speaker 1: Whole life, meeting your wife or her.

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Speaker 2: You know, it really was. It was like having that

348
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Speaker 2: workout is the thing that has made all the other

349
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Speaker 2: things work out, you know. And yeah, I didn't know

350
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Speaker 2: it was going to be that way because I'm ambitious

351
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Speaker 2: and I wanted to. I wanted to. I thought you

352
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 2: kind of got that squared away, and then you worked

353
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Speaker 2: on your music and your profession, and I thought that's

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Speaker 2: what success was.

355
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Speaker 1: You were like, okay, marriage said it and forget Oh

356
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Speaker 1: I got it.

357
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Speaker 3: Good.

358
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Speaker 1: Now I can go off and be ambitious.

359
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is like and then I realized, from

360
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,399
Speaker 2: working as hard as I know how to work and

361
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 2: doing this that like, you know, your career will kind

362
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,160
Speaker 2: of ebb and flow and you'll have wins and you'll

363
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,359
Speaker 2: have hits no matter who you are, but the people

364
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,680
Speaker 2: that you share the ride with are the whole game. Really. Yeah,

365
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 2: So whether that's your friends or your spouse is such

366
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Speaker 2: a big one. And I didn't know that then, but

367
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Speaker 2: I did instinctly. I think we just went after it.

368
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Speaker 3: You know.

369
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Speaker 2: In college, there was a very real possibility that I

370
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 2: was going to just be too jealous. It's hard to

371
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,720
Speaker 2: turn that corner from high school sweethearts very and Kirsen

372
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 2: is so beautiful that she had a lot of suitors,

373
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Speaker 2: you know, I mean.

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Speaker 1: People waiting out your relationship fashion.

375
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Speaker 2: There were a lot of guys trying to take my

376
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 2: station here and and uh, you know, you can't shut

377
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,640
Speaker 2: each other down. It's no way to live, but you do.

378
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 2: But I am you know, the same thing that lets

379
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 2: all the love in is very I'm in intense personality.

380
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 2: And I felt this, you know, constant. There's no there's

381
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 2: no becoming way to talk about. I was just I

382
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,040
Speaker 2: felt jealous all the time. And so you're sort of

383
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 2: like in college, it's thank god there wasn't the Internet

384
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 2: and the things that we have.

385
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Speaker 3: Now, you know.

386
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: So she's just I went to a concert with people

387
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 2: and you just had to.

388
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Speaker 1: And you never know what that looked like.

389
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 3: No, and thank god, you.

390
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 2: Know, and so and I didn't lose her because I

391
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,360
Speaker 2: did realize like, Okay, I have to be able to adjust,

392
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 2: and and she had to adjust because as I got into.

393
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: Music, yes, and totally very threatening, totally musician for a

394
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 1: woman to be.

395
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 2: In yeah, she's completely the opposite of me. Though it's

396
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 2: never it seems to never face.

397
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 3: I almost wish it would. I'm like, you realize I'm.

398
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 2: Kind of a big deal, Like, yeah, there.

399
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,199
Speaker 3: Are women that like me.

400
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 2: But she's kind of like, oh, that's nice for you.

401
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 2: I mean she has she's the total. She balances it

402
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 2: well and I think that, but I did at some point,

403
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 2: you know, we had a conversation before we got married

404
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 2: where I said, you know, I don't want to ruin

405
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 2: your life, and losing you would be the hardest thing

406
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 2: in the world. But I I'm gonna be doing this.

407
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be gone a lot. Yeah, I'm really gonna

408
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,719
Speaker 2: be gone a lot. Is this should we And we

409
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 2: both kind of went into our marriage like let's try,

410
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,439
Speaker 2: because if we don't try, we always wonder, you know.

411
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: I mean that's a really good realization to have beforehand

412
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 1: and acknowledge that. And that's a very selfless thing to say,

413
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,919
Speaker 1: like I don't want to ruin your life and this

414
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: is but this is.

415
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 2: What I want to do.

416
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 3: And what would I have done if she had been like, yeah,

417
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 3: this could be this could be right. And it does

418
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 3: go back. It all comes back to Anthony Ramos, because.

419
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 2: The advice that it was given to me early on

420
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 2: was you need ten minutes if you if you travel lot,

421
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: and so does your special you need ten minutes a

422
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 2: day where you're not just doing laundry lists. You're not

423
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 2: just saying okay, I did this.

424
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: You know, did you get this done?

425
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 2: You're chatting the way you would in your living room.

426
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

427
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 2: And his this advice was given to me, and it

428
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 2: said if you missed ten days because you're doing LA

429
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: or something like that, you got to make it up

430
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 2: the next day. And there were times I would sit

431
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: and look at my watch and I wouldn't want to

432
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 2: talk on the phone. I mean you do like sort

433
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 2: of shut down parts of yourself when you're on the

434
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 2: road for survival mode. I mean you traveled totally. Ti.

435
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 2: I this is but it's dangerous because if you do

436
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: it for too long, you do become disconnected. Right. So

437
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 2: I was a big believer in just the metrics of

438
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 2: ten minutes a day of actual communication doesn't have to

439
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: be you know, big stuff, And it helped me keep

440
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: us advice.

441
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's such a grind trying to make a

442
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: name for yourself. And I remember in very different ways.

443
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: When I look back at my twenties when I was hustling,

444
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: I mean I worked twenty hour days, I said yes

445
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: to everything, I was on planes every week. I'm exhausted

446
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 1: thinking about how hard it was just to get where

447
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: I wanted, like a good enough place that I wanted

448
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: to get. What do those early days look like for

449
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: you now when you look back at the work, Well.

450
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,400
Speaker 2: What you just described feels like to me like your

451
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 2: life now kind of. I mean, don't even get me startups.

452
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: Even I am pissed. I know that I am forty

453
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: six and working as hard as I had to in

454
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 1: my twenties. I am pissed.

455
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: Well, same answer, I am too. I feel so the

456
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: you know, I feel indignant about I'm like, why this is?

457
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 3: I thought we were going.

458
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 2: To row out and then you would just be coasting

459
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 2: a little bit. And I feel like I'm working like

460
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: five times as hard as I was in the beginning.

461
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: So you're having the same experience as me looking back

462
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: being like, oh, this is very familiar. Yeah, I'm not pleased,

463
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: but it's it's familiar. I've done this before.

464
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: So is that a result of not being where you know?

465
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: Where we envision that we would get.

466
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 3: Is it like I'm not there yet.

467
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 2: So I need to do that And if that's the case,

468
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know if that's the case. Is

469
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 2: the problem that we just we got to get to

470
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 2: that spot or is it? Is it like an inability

471
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 2: to be content, which is what my friends will tell me, like, hell,

472
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 2: you know your life is great, and I know it is,

473
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: but I I with that. I'm like, there is there's

474
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 2: some stuff that has not quite landed in the way

475
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: that I wanted to And I don't know any other

476
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: way than I've got to just keep trying to hammer

477
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 2: it this.

478
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 1: You know, I feel the same. Some of the reason

479
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: I'm working so hard is just like the economy and

480
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: my business right it's changing a lot, and we're all

481
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: trying to future proof for what it's going to become, right,

482
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: and so part of it is like strategic, But there's

483
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: another part, like you, where I haven't done everything I

484
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: want to do yet. And it's not that I haven't

485
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: gotten as high as I want to get. I've you know,

486
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: posted my own show You're.

487
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 2: You Are, you Are, You've done great. I mean it's

488
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: easier for me to look at your life. Why would

489
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 2: you feel like she needs to work all the time.

490
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: I mean, for lots of reasons. It's complicated and it's

491
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: not any one thing. And at this age that I'm

492
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: at too, I'm stubborn. I want No one's going to

493
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: kick me out of this. Yeah, I know lots of

494
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: people want to. Yeah, because I'm at a certain age

495
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: as a woman. You know, you knew people want to

496
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: come in. That's fine, I'm not leaving. Yeah, And so

497
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: part of me is like, you're gonna have to like

498
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: kick me out the door because I'm not slowing.

499
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,479
Speaker 2: Down well, and I'm the same way. Yeah, okay, because

500
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: I have become without meaning to, I've become sort of

501
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: this underground thing where people because the reality is most

502
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: people don't know who I am, you know, but I have.

503
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: It doesn't it doesn't diminish sort of now the life

504
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 2: and the career you've done so much too, where the

505
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: people who do know, they're like, it means a lot

506
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: that I stay in the game. And so part of

507
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: me is like, Okay, for my legacy, I don't mean

508
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: to be so grand about it, but for my legacy

509
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 2: to remain intact, I need to never give in.

510
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: I need to just ride.

511
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: This wave and this is going this is who I am. Yeah,

512
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: but a kid myself sometimes, and I imagine is as

513
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: recently as this week, I was like, Okay, well, so

514
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be fifty in a couple of years and

515
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: I might just like want to do something totally different.

516
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: And Kirsen looked.

517
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: At me and she just smiled at me, and she's like, okay, sure, right,

518
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 2: whatever you need to tell yourself. Man, you know you're

519
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 2: you like being Stephen Kellogg and she's not wrong, but

520
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: I need to believe that there's an option if just

521
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 2: in case.

522
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: But you know, I feel the same way, and I

523
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: think about, you know, maybe I don't want to do

524
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: politics anymore, or want I do something else. But I'm

525
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: finding maybe, like you, people don't want me to leave politics.

526
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's all they want.

527
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: And when I try to go to a new space,

528
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: they're like, you're not giving us politics. What's going on?

529
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: They're disoriented, And so I keep getting roped back into

530
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: the thing that people know me for. And that's tough because,

531
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: like you, I want to give people what.

532
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 2: They want, I know, and you're really good at it.

533
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 3: And that's the kind of thing.

534
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: So I'm a little bit over some of the things,

535
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 2: you know, just being the touring singing singer songwriter guy. Okay,

536
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: like the physicality of it, two nine hundred shows right

537
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: as this thing, okay. And I'm not doing this always

538
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 2: at that some cities, I am doing this at the

539
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: level that I want to do it. But in some cases,

540
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 2: I'm going to cities I've been going to for twenty

541
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: five years and I'm doing less business than I was,

542
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: and but I feel better at what I'm doing than

543
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: I ever did.

544
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 3: And part of me.

545
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: Goes, well, I don't know how many more of these,

546
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know how many more of these

547
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: I have in me because I'm a little bit I

548
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 2: don't want to go on stage with a chip on

549
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 2: my shoulder.

550
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: But part of me is like, well, where is everyone?

551
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: And it's the age that we're at, the demographic that

552
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 2: comes to see me. I get it, We're busy. We

553
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: don't like leaving our house at all. You know, you

554
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: got kids or you got parents, You've got things you

555
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: got to do.

556
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: But I don't know how much more of that I

557
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 3: have in me.

558
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit over that, and so that has

559
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 2: led me to write that book and do the stand

560
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: up special because I am thinking, like what else? I

561
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 2: don't want to just do the same things I've been doing.

562
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 2: And that is probably a good, healthy impulse. I think

563
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: it's good to like.

564
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 3: But most people are like, cool, cool, cool, read your book.

565
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 2: When are you playing again?

566
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: Right?

567
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: You know, let's do something else here, you know.

568
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, I've tried to find a way to keep

569
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: doing that thing, that thing that pays the bills, that

570
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: thing that people know me for, that thing that I

571
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: used to really love. And there are moments I still

572
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: love it on the regular, I don't, you know. Just

573
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: being honest, it's not fun covering politics today the way

574
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: we used to cover it, and my business the media

575
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: isn't a fun place to be either. But to give

576
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: myself some fun, I get to do things like this, Yeah,

577
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: which is what turns me on. This is fulfilling. The

578
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: five second hit on TV about tariffs is not. This

579
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: is fulfilling, And so I feel like, Okay, I can

580
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: take the bad because I'm also getting some of the good.

581
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 2: Now.

582
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: Is that how you feel about like your stand up?

583
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: And yeah, this is why we're friends.

584
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: I mean we're because we since we've met, there have

585
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: been these shared two three moments. And that is so,

586
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: whether people realize it or not, or whether I fully

587
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: grasp it. Doing stand up writing the book has made

588
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: me fall in love with music again, right, And so

589
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: this I just put out a record, and this record

590
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: feels inspired, which you wish they all felt inspired, but

591
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: they don't always.

592
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: And so it's bringing back the love.

593
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: And I'd love a little more room if I was

594
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: picking the diet and the balance of my life, I

595
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: would love a little more room, Like like, what could

596
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: happen if I could get a little more space from

597
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: so that you don't start to like the thing, Yeah,

598
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 2: that is your main.

599
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: That became your job. You fought so long and so

600
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: hard to make us a job out of this, and

601
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: then you made it a job and then you got

602
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 1: actually good and it wasn't just you got big and

603
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: you got you know, it's a it can be a

604
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: mind fulk to like navigate all of this and then

605
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: you feel ungrateful, like I want to take a step back.

606
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: That's so ungrateful.

607
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 2: You know of me even now I'm self conscious of

608
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: like do we just do I I'm not knowing about you,

609
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: but do I just sound like a like someone who's

610
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: complaining about a great job, because that's not This.

611
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: Is honest, and I think it's better to be honest

612
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: rather than say, you know, I'm just lucky to be

613
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: here and it's been great, and you know, no, it's

614
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: taken a huge toll on my mental health. And there

615
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: are so many people we talked to on this podcast

616
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: and then outside of the podcast who are at an

617
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: age we're regardless of what they're doing, they're confronting the

618
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: same existential questions and talking about it. Honestly. For people

619
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: there who look at someone like you, wow, successful touring

620
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: musician like or you know me, someone's on TV doing politics,

621
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: to talk this way, I think is way more helpful

622
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: than to put a shine on it and pretend like

623
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: we're not going through some of these, you know, questions

624
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: and challenges in our lives. That's the point of this. Yeah, yeah,

625
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: so I don't feel subconscious. This is what this is

626
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: what we're meant to do. Your parenting. I've met your kids,

627
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: and you can share as much as little as you

628
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: want to about your kids. But your kids are incredible.

629
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: You have four beautiful daughters. I just want to ask

630
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: broadly when you had your first Sophia, think about your

631
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: parenting philosophy as you just had your first kid, and

632
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: now tell me what your parenting philosophy looks like or

633
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: has changed four kids in what is that? What is

634
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,239
Speaker 1: that gap? Is it a big difference or is it

635
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: very very similar?

636
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 3: I love the question.

637
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: It feels like something has shifted.

638
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 3: And you know, when I loved that, I didn't know

639
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: what I.

640
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: Was getting into. I think that's sort of an essential

641
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: component of parenting, is you need I'm glad we didn't know.

642
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: There's something like evolution wise that when you have kids

643
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: you don't know as much as you know twenty years.

644
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: Late, because if you did, you wouldn't do it because they'd.

645
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: Be too scary. It's too like you're just the desire

646
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: to protect.

647
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: Them is so big that you're like, you know.

648
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: But so when we had Sophia, you know, yeah, we

649
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: were twenty eight, we were I just kind of thought

650
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: this is.

651
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 3: All going to work out.

652
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: I mean, that's where the farmer side of things, you know,

653
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: that was just like, hey, this is cool. The kid

654
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: hangs and they hang already hung around the band and

655
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: me playing music till late they fell us. You know,

656
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: we would just fall asleep in the practice space, sometimes

657
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: just laying there.

658
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: And you're like, this is cool.

659
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And judge your parents right now would be like,

660
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: so you're telling me you didn't have earphones on your

661
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: kid and you play music while she slept. That can't

662
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: be healthy and they're not wrong. But that's also how

663
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: we did it, and it had such a good impact,

664
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 2: I think because we didn't, you know, make a big deal.

665
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: But this was just our life. We didn't stop traveling.

666
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: We didn't say we can't go out, we didn't say

667
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: we have to be quiet. We kept living our life,

668
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: you know. And at her christening, I can remember it

669
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: Heresen saying you should probably not have anything else to

670
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: drink because we were like we you know, we're just

671
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 2: but I was really fun and it was and they

672
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: saw that. And now that my two oldest are twenty

673
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: and seventeen, I went into the recording studio with my

674
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: oldest Sofia this week and we made music together. It's

675
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing because we are it's shifting from you know,

676
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 2: caretaker to sort of advisor, you know, and that's really

677
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: fun and I'm really grateful for that. But to your question,

678
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: how has it shifted this is not the same since

679
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: the advent of the smartphone.

680
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not the same. We're not doing different.

681
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 2: Skill sets are now required, right and for my younger two,

682
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: I'm really feeling somewhat inept and I just have a

683
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: much harder time managing it because we're sort of doing

684
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: battle with something that hasn't really existed before and that

685
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: has such a hold on me. And you talk about anxiety,

686
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 2: I just it's like, you know how they you'd hear

687
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: your parents say we didn't know cigarettes were bad. You're like,

688
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: of course you knew cigarettes were bad. You maybe didn't

689
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: know the ins and outs, but you knew they were bad.

690
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 2: I do feel that our screen situation is the same

691
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: thing is the cigarettes of today. And so in some ways,

692
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: when I'm just exhausted because I'm more exhausted and Kirsten's

693
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 2: more exhausted, and there's four of us, So in some ways,

694
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: right at the moment where we're wanting to be less

695
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 2: stringent as parents with the babies of the family, we

696
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: are also sort of like, have these cigarettes if we're

697
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: doing the metaphor that are in play all the time, yeah,

698
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: and you're like, don't smoke, and you so I don't

699
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: mean everyone smoking.

700
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: I know, and you don't have because you know I

701
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: have one. You four you would imagine, I bet you imagined.

702
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: You've gained all this confidence in wisdom through the first

703
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: two at least. Yeah, And so you think, well, the

704
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: second two I've got, I've got I'm confident I've got it.

705
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: But then this wrench comes in of social media that

706
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: completely changes the rules, and now it's like, wait a second,

707
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: I didn't sign up to be a parent in this environment.

708
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, totally, And I know that tons

709
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: of people are going this way and it's not it's

710
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: not meant to you know, I never am the person

711
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: who judges the parent who's dragging their kids through target. Like,

712
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 2: I get it. I have been all those things, and

713
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: Kirson has been them even more. But I do feel

714
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 2: like we are trying to exercise a level of tough

715
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: love now that is so hard for us to do

716
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: at this moment. Where're and when we do, the results

717
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: are pretty good. When we're like, Okay, here's the deal,

718
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: and we've got this wide open aperture too, it's like

719
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 2: we let them be on these things a lot, but

720
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: we have some rules about like you have, it has

721
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: to be in the basket by this time, and they'll

722
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 2: come down two minutes after that time, and I'm like, well,

723
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 2: you got to give us your phone and they want

724
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 2: to kill me, which I'm not used to either, because

725
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: I didn't really that wasn't I wasn't the type of

726
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: parent where, you know, my kids, this is a new

727
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: thing that they get really mad at me and I

728
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: have to like hold the line in.

729
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 3: A way that I I'm not that good at.

730
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 2: It's just this is like it's changed, and I feel

731
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 2: I'm starting to feel shittier at the job. I think

732
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, am I worse as a parent now? And

733
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: I hope not.

734
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: You know, well, listen, I don't know a single parent

735
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: who feels like I've got this, Not a single one,

736
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, you can look back and think, well,

737
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: I was a much better parent at this point or

738
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: with this kid or whatever. But no one in the

739
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: moment feels like I've got this. You know, you just can't.

740
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: It's it's there's too much incoming at once to feel

741
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: like I've got ground under my feet and like I've

742
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: figured this out.

743
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: Think about our kids, though, they don't you feel that

744
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: they are who they I mean, don't you feel like

745
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 2: to some degree they just came out the way that

746
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: they are And you're like, I'm not sure how much

747
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: good or bad? Yeah, I'm you know, I'm obviously we're

748
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: getting you fed and keeping you right alive, but like,

749
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, I question our impact.

750
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: So so much. The same for me too, because there's

751
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: a lot of Jack I don't recognize in me and

752
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: Frankly or John, like, you know, he's just his own

753
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: and he's lucky that there's you know, that distance. But also, yeah,

754
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: I just have to constantly remind my especially since he

755
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: was diagnosed on the spectrum, I have to remind myself

756
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: like he's his own person and I don't have to

757
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: be the greatest mom. I just have to be his

758
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 1: mom and listen to him. Yeah, right, And what does

759
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: he need for me?

760
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 3: You just just you just have to show up. You're

761
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: basically modeling.

762
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: Hey, this is how you show up and try? Which

763
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: is the most useful thing to model?

764
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: What would you say is your best parenting hack?

765
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 2: Hmm?

766
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 3: You know what it is.

767
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: It's okay to apologize, yes, you know, it's okay to

768
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: screw things up royally. I have said things to my children,

769
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: and I write all these songs that you hear. A

770
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 2: lot of my songs are about I mean people erroneously

771
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 2: just assume I'm a great dad because they hear these

772
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 2: loving songs.

773
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like, you love kids.

774
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, I love my kids. Most of those

775
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: My kids are assholes. So don't don't. Let's not put

776
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: words in my mouth. But I think the greatest hack

777
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: is just that when you screw up, it's okay to go. Hey, hon,

778
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: Dad was really frustrated and I didn't mean those things,

779
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry. I'm going to try not to say

780
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: those I cannot guarantee I'm never.

781
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: Going to raise my voice again.

782
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: I'm never going to say something awful. And to me,

783
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 2: it makes me feel better to do that, it seems to,

784
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: even if they want to hold it over your head

785
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: for a minute. You know, I think that that's the

786
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: most important thing that we've learned to do. I like

787
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: my parents, just like admit when you're wrong. It's not

788
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 2: it's not weakness.

789
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: It's it's it's just strength.

790
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 3: It's just owning it, you know.

791
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: And one day the girls were fighting and they were

792
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: this was during COVID. They were being it was so loud,

793
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: and I said, hey, guys, can we what, like what's

794
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 2: going on? And they said, Dad, you know how you

795
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 2: and mom just need a minute sometimes just.

796
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 3: Let like And I was like, oh yes.

797
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: Right, oh yeah, respect, advocate for yourself. Girls.

798
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like have it. It's okay to this

799
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: thing of running around and expecting each other, trying to

800
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: hold each other to these perfection standards, which we do

801
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: with everybody and in the media, you guys are like,

802
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: you take moments out of context. Yeah, completely have to.

803
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: This becomes the way that you are. And yeah, what

804
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: like if we all had hot mics all the time,

805
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 2: it would not be pretty.

806
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 3: It would not you know, so we just accept that.

807
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, life is like super messy like this, and you

808
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: do say shitty things. Yeah for them, you know, I'm not.

809
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: I feel sad thinking about some of those moments.

810
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 3: But also I don't know my.

811
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: Two older ones. I said those same awful things to

812
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 2: them and they're my good friends. Now, Yeah, they turn

813
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 2: out just fine.

814
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: This is okay, you know well, And my therapist always said, like,

815
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: don't aim to be a perfect parent and beat yourself

816
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: up when you're not, because you're not raising perfect kids,

817
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: and they need to see imperfection and know that that's okay.

818
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: That Mom's not perfect, Dad's not perfect. Mom doesn't always

819
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: have the right answer. Mom doesn't always behave perfectly, and

820
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: she'll admit when she when she doesn't. That means I

821
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: don't have to be perfect. So it's like lower modeling

822
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: it exactly. Yeah, and you would want that for them,

823
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: of course.

824
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 2: You know, the people who.

825
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 3: Love you, you want to see yourself.

826
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: This is that movie PS, I Love you, but it's

827
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: like you want to see yourself through the eyes of

828
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: somebody that loves you.

829
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 3: That's the kindest way you can be to yourself.

830
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: And if you can show your kids, you know, they're

831
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: kind of like, well you do it, and you're like, oh,

832
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: that's hard, right, right?

833
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: That is a lovely way to exist.

834
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: It is good. You know what I've been trying recently,

835
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: and it's really helpful. I've been taking you know, we

836
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: all have worries about our kids, existential worries, but also

837
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: worries like tomorrow, right, what's going to happen at school?

838
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: This thing? But also what's adulthood going to be like? Right?

839
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: And I've started taking worries and kind of flipping them

840
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: on their head and examining them through their opposites. So

841
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: to give you an example, Jack, Jack is ten and

842
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: Jack does not ever like to be alone. Okay, Jack

843
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: has a great room with toys and books and spends

844
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: no time there. Jack is a great playroom downstairs with

845
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: a TV and Nintendo's spends no time there. Whatever he's doing,

846
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: he wants to be doing it next to my husband

847
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: and I. One of us doesn't like to shower without

848
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: anyone standing outside the room. Okay, yeah, won't brush his

849
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: teeth without someone standing right there. Just doesn't want to

850
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: be alone once playdates all the time we're going out,

851
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: Can we bring a friend you know very much wants

852
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: to interact at all times. And this, you know, worries me.

853
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Like he's ten, When is he too codependent?

854
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: You know? When's he going to feel like he can

855
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: do stuff on his own? And am I indulging this?

856
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: And blah blah blah, And I said, okay, let me take

857
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: this problem. Let's now talk about what the opposite of

858
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: this would be. A kid who spent all his time

859
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: in his room, never wanted to be around his parents,

860
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: never wanted to interact with friends, never wanted to do

861
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: stuff after school, was completely inside of himself, either escaping

862
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: into video games or whatever he was doing alone. Well,

863
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: I'd be a lot more freaked out about that kid,

864
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: sure than my kid.

865
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: Sure.

866
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, And so that doesn't mean I'm dismissing the

867
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: thing I was very worried about. But I'm taking I'm

868
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: creating a lot of distance between the urgency of this problem,

869
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: which is not anywhere near as bad as the opposite

870
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: of this problem.

871
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

872
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:39,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

873
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: And all it does is it allows me to like

874
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: sleep at.

875
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: Night, offer some perspective on the situation.

876
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, and takes my temperature down so that I can

877
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: parent intentionally, rationally, calmly and not under dress because I'm

878
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: just like white knuckling it and like worried all the

879
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: time about every single thing.

880
00:42:58,239 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally.

881
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 2: And everything requires a strategy session. I mean, it's there's

882
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 2: so much and if you if you have the sort

883
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 2: of the luxury of being able to dedicate time to it,

884
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 2: parenting becomes its own art form. It's like, how well

885
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: can I do this? How well can I take this?

886
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: We're basically taking a test that is impossible to ace, right,

887
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: you know, there is no, a scene of this test

888
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: and just like, how do we how do we do it?

889
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: You know? And so getting perspective sounds like it would

890
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: be good, and I'm not sure, you know, I want

891
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 2: to think about how I could apply that in my

892
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 2: own world.

893
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: Something will come up.

894
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 3: Exhaust It's exhausting.

895
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: I'm a little exhausted right now. Summer feels exhausting too,

896
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 2: because there's certainly home and I know I'm going to

897
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: miss this, but I'm also like, I don't have the

898
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 2: summer off. I know, right, exactly right, nobody's nothing changed

899
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 2: for me except that you're home all the time now.

900
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, they got to work here sin

901
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: It's like she's twelve though she can't even get there's

902
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: not really a job for her to and I'm like, well,

903
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 2: there has to be something.

904
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: She can do.

905
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 3: It doesn't acquire coming.

906
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 2: To me and saying, yeah, it's hard.

907
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about mental health on this podcast,

908
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 1: and you and I have talked a lot about mental health,

909
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: and kids today are talking a lot more about mental

910
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: health than we did, for sure, For example, how do

911
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: you model mental health with your kids and how do

912
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: you interpret mental health as a dad?

913
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: This is interesting I I am, I'm not sure. You know.

914
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,280
Speaker 2: There's there have been moments where Kirsten said, you should,

915
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 2: you really need to talk to somebody, and my response

916
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,959
Speaker 2: has kind of been like, I don't have the time

917
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: or the money to do that right now. I'm putting

918
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: it all into our things. I do also feel that

919
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: I have some people in my life who probably take

920
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: the brunt of what a therapist would take.

921
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 3: And I write intensively in my journal.

922
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: My journals are so filled with crazy, you know, and

923
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: it helps so much, and then it does keep the

924
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: head sort of straight. I mean, it's I think that

925
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: it's let me answer this more succinctly than I am.

926
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: It's so hard to be to do the human experience

927
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: for anyone, whatever your income strata is, whatever your lot

928
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 2: in life is. Everybody is finding this to be a challenge.

929
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 2: So it's great that we're talking more about it, because

930
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: that should be considered a baseline.

931
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 3: You know.

932
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 2: It's silly to think that money makes all the problems

933
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: go away, or success or fame or living here or

934
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: living there.

935
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 3: These things.

936
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: It's like, it's hard to be a person, you know.

937
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 2: So that sort of helps me and I go, all right,

938
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: I need to I'm just gonna I have my journal,

939
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 2: and I have my people that I talk to, and

940
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 2: if I'm leaning too heavily on them, I have people

941
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: I can talk you know. Then I'll bring in a

942
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: therapist and go, hey, I'm not going to see you

943
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 2: every week, but here's what's going on. Yeah, talk to

944
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 2: give me some strategies. And they do. And that's a

945
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: beautiful thing that there's no.

946
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 3: Stigma on that.

947
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

948
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: I would guess that some of the people closest to

949
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: me would probably question parts of my mental health, you know,

950
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: because I am an intense person and I'm wound tightly

951
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 2: and I carry a lot of weight, and I think

952
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: that that is it's unfortunate that the people around me

953
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: have to feel that sometimes. I also would say, you know,

954
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 2: for my friends who have been like, are you okay?

955
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: They worry about me because they see me cry on

956
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 2: a daily basis that you know, just and I'm like,

957
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 2: you don't because I am actually quite well. I sort

958
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 2: of swim around in a melancolia that I enjoy when

959
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 2: it's raining outside. I'm like, at last, whether that reflects

960
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: my general demeanor. You know, I hate Southern California. I

961
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: go there, don't you love the sunshine. I'm like, this

962
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: just makes me feel like I'm supposed to be exercising.

963
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 2: Hell no, I don't like this. It feels so at

964
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 2: odds with you know, the blue. I just have the blues.

965
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 3: But it's not.

966
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 2: Depression, right, Yeah, and depression is a monster and you

967
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 2: have to watch that. Yeah, but that's not been my lot.

968
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 2: My mental health is actually good. I'm a little too intense.

969
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: I'm definitely melodramatic. There are things, but that's also the

970
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 2: things that lets me write songs. It lets me feel

971
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 2: what's happening in the room for others. I mean, it's

972
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 2: I try to embrace that, you know, Yes, this is

973
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 2: who I am and I have to you know, sometimes

974
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: it goes too far. But show me one person who

975
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: doesn't go too far in the direction of their personality

976
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 2: right on occasion, you know, do you feel emotionally more

977
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: connected to your music or your lyrics just to.

978
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 3: The lyrics the music.

979
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: I have to bring in producers with better taste, Yeah,

980
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 2: and I haven't always picked the right producers, so sometimes

981
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 2: you end your music sounds like but I don't really care.

982
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: All I care about is what's being said, and.

983
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 3: That's how I listen to music.

984
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: So I love listening to eminem even though that's not

985
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 2: like my genre I love.

986
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: I just love the lyrics.

987
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: You know, the lyrics move me. And I can listen

988
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: to the cheesiest of country music and have no problem

989
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 2: with the deep accent or whatever's going on the put

990
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 2: on the lift kind of production. If the words are moving. Yeah,

991
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, that's what I love. I love.

992
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a lyric guy for sure.

993
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: Well I can tell, and I'm sure your fans can

994
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: tell as well. Not that your music isn't great. Your

995
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: music is also great, but you can tell you pour

996
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: so much into your music's.

997
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: Fine, but the music I also bring people into the Hey,

998
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 2: how do we make this cool so that people actually hear?

999
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 2: Like Billy Joel is an artist I love whose lyrics

1000
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: are so good, but you almost don't realize it because

1001
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 2: his melodies.

1002
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:01,919
Speaker 3: Are so good.

1003
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 2: Yes, and I know he's actually polarizing to some people.

1004
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 3: He's not cool or whatever.

1005
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: He's fantastic.

1006
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:07,760
Speaker 3: He's amazing.

1007
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: That's one of my all time favorites.

1008
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great, and you don't realize his lyrics are

1009
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 2: actually just crushingly good.

1010
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 3: Yes, I sent.

1011
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: Josh Ritter uh, because Josh was kind of not on

1012
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 2: the Billy Joel train, and so I sent him The

1013
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 2: Stranger and I'm like, I want a full report on

1014
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 2: what is not amazing about this and he's he's sort

1015
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: of conceded it since then, probably I think I think

1016
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: I'm working. I'm bringing around because Billy Joel needs my

1017
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: help bringing around.

1018
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah right right, yeah, yeah, thanks, thank thank you, Steven.

1019
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1020
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: Oh, I love Billy Joel so much. I don't like

1021
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 1: people who like hate on him, yeah, or call him

1022
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: pedestrian or like he doesn't have a great voice. I

1023
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: think give me Billy over Dylan any day, as like

1024
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: America's songwriter. That's just for me.

1025
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, well Dylan, I mean Dylan, that's you might

1026
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: have picked the one guy that I got to kind

1027
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 2: of maybe defens down on it. But we just watched

1028
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: the Dylan movie, me and the girls, Yeah, and they

1029
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 2: were like Dylan was hot, and I'm like, well, well,

1030
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 2: Timothy Shalla May's hot, you might. That's your takeaway, guys.

1031
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: Okay, before we go to a lightning round, I want

1032
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 1: to talk to you about failure because you know, perception

1033
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: isn't reality. As you know, I get a lot of

1034
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: like the perception of my career, and I think the

1035
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: perception of anyone's career is you know the highlights. You know,

1036
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: people know what I've done. They don't know what I

1037
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: haven't done. They don't know the thing that almost happened

1038
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: but didn't. They don't know the thing that I tried

1039
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 1: and failed at. And those were so much more instrumental

1040
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: in my education and learning how to be better at

1041
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,439
Speaker 1: what I do. But nobody knows them because you don't

1042
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: talk about them, either because they're painful or the it's

1043
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 1: not relevant. It didn't happen, I didn't get to do it,

1044
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: or I did it and it didn't work. You can

1045
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 1: be specific abroad, but like what if you failed at

1046
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: or what's something a failure you've really learned from.

1047
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 2: Oh, there's so many, and you're so you're so right

1048
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 2: about you know, we don't necessarily publicize these things, but

1049
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 2: they're so important and you learn so much from them, right.

1050
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: And one of the things about recently getting into stand

1051
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 2: up that I love is the stand up ethos is

1052
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: so willing to fail. There's no way to be funny

1053
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: without occasionally going past it, realizing you're not being clear

1054
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 2: and So the lovely thing about the stand up community

1055
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 2: that I've encountered is you can I've watched comics go

1056
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: up there in absolutely tank, maybe because they're not even

1057
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: very good at it, but you get your points just

1058
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: for putting your hat in the ring. Yeah, I think

1059
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: that's kind of a beautiful thing, and I think it's

1060
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 2: something we don't necessarily value enough as as a culture.

1061
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: You know, is like putting your hat in the ring.

1062
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 2: There's a lot to be said for that, for showing up.

1063
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 3: It's like the parent thing.

1064
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 2: So personally, I have failed at so many things, and

1065
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 2: one of the and the brand for me is almost

1066
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 2: being the guy that shares it. You know, I'm trying

1067
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: to lean into it because if I'm not going to

1068
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: be out there in the in the you know, if

1069
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be a household name and this,

1070
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 2: all these things, it's like, well, let me mean a

1071
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 2: lot to a more focused group of people. Let me,

1072
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: let me share my life with them to the degree

1073
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 2: that they can look at this and go, Okay, this

1074
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: guy is just like me. Okay, And maybe he's giving

1075
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: me by sharing his insights about what these failures.

1076
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 3: Meant to him.

1077
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 2: Maybe it helps them a little, or at least makes

1078
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: them feel less alone in their things. So as a parent,

1079
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: I have not done things the way that I wish

1080
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: I had. Sometimes, you know, I have said things like

1081
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 2: I know that I that I smote regret as a

1082
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: band leader and a business guy, you know, I mean,

1083
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: a band is a business, and I look at those

1084
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: early days and you go, damn, I I maybe didn't

1085
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 2: need to be the way that I was, and and

1086
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: there was broke some of the relationships. You know, This

1087
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 2: new album I have is a lot about friendships that broke.

1088
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: It's very hard. I really don't want I want it.

1089
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,720
Speaker 2: I want to clean up everything. You can't clean up everything.

1090
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 2: People don't want to accept. They want to hold on

1091
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: to that thing and that I have my own thoughts

1092
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: on that too, But that's there, right, you know, they

1093
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 2: don't owe. You can't control each other. And so you know,

1094
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: I have failed in music a lot. My first and

1095
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:43,839
Speaker 2: really biggest national TV appearance, I we ran the song

1096
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 2: eight times flawlessly, and then we were doing it and

1097
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 2: the camera operator was waving her hands and I couldn't

1098
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: really see, and I ended the song inexplicably had a

1099
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: train wreck on TV. And my manager's watching. It was

1100
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: kind of like, if you get this, we'll probably get Letterman.

1101
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: This is and Letterman was still going and I saw

1102
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,919
Speaker 2: this path forward for myself if I could just stick

1103
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 2: this one landing. And she's waving her hands and I

1104
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 2: just stopped playing. I don't know why that was. And

1105
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 2: then she came up and yelled at me and said,

1106
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 2: I was telling you to extend it. And I was like,

1107
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 2: we weren't even near the end of the song. Why

1108
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 2: were you just you know, why were you? But none

1109
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 2: of that matters, Like we can't. I couldn't rewind that clock.

1110
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 3: We didn't.

1111
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: It shut down a bunch of things for me.

1112
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 3: You know, I wound up. I'll leave I'll leave you

1113
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 3: with this.

1114
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 2: This is probably my most profound failure, and it led

1115
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 2: to a lot of good things. I'd been writing songs

1116
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 2: for years. I had been on Universal Atlantic, I was

1117
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 2: on Vanguard Records, and we'd had a minor hit. And

1118
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 2: they said, Steven, we like you and we want you

1119
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 2: to win, but you need to give us a hit.

1120
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: So I'm feeling this very real pressure, and they insisted

1121
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 2: I work with a producer who had produced a bunch

1122
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: of hits, but whose methods were dubious. Okay, he worked

1123
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 2: backwards off of other people's hits. This was very uncomfortable

1124
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: to me. Some people do it with reasonable success. It's

1125
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: much more accepted now than it was even when I

1126
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 2: was doing this in twenty eleven. So we did a

1127
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: couple songs that we wrote together, and we kind of

1128
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: worked and I'm like, Okay, I guess I guess this

1129
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 2: is unique enough now, but it felt weird. And when

1130
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: we put the song out, the radio starts playing it

1131
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,479
Speaker 2: and our fans start going, this sounds like this Paul

1132
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: Simon song, which I hadn't gone and listened to because

1133
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: I didn't want. I was like, I kind of stuck

1134
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 2: my head in the sands.

1135
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: Yep, yep.

1136
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 3: It's embarrassing to.

1137
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 2: Even be telling you, but I want to give you

1138
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 2: something meaty, and this is meaty. So we did this,

1139
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 2: and I had a Jerry Maguire moment because I was like,

1140
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 2: I can't stand behind this. I then went back and

1141
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 2: listened to the song and was like, this feels way

1142
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 2: too close. It was already on the radio and I'm

1143
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 2: listening back and Sophia, who's little at the time, she's

1144
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: like five, came in and said, Daddy, who song is this?

1145
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: And I said, this is Paul Simon's song and she

1146
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: said it sounds.

1147
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 3: Like your song.

1148
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: And that was like so embarrassing. It was so embarrassing

1149
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 2: and so not what I'm about. And I have these

1150
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: hundreds of songs I've written, and suddenly my integrity is

1151
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,240
Speaker 2: called into question, and I pulled a full on Jerry Maguire.

1152
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: I wrote a letter to the record label, my management.

1153
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 2: I said, look, we know this was meant to be

1154
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 2: a tip of the hat. It's come to my attention

1155
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 2: that it's far too close. I'm rewriting the song. I'll

1156
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: pay for the rewrites, and I want you to withdraw

1157
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 2: this from the radio. And I was told, in very

1158
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 2: clear terms, radio is very fickle, and you've got a

1159
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 2: great thing going. They like you, but if you insist

1160
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 2: on this, they're not going to play you anymore. And

1161
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 2: I said, I hear you, but pull it. And they

1162
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 2: were right, Like I lost so much career momentum that

1163
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 2: I've never really gained back. And a year later I

1164
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 2: did a Ted talk and I talked about this, yeah,

1165
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,760
Speaker 2: and it was like I could sleep again.

1166
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 3: The next night. I just knew who I was. I

1167
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:10,959
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, well, whatever.

1168
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 2: Happens happens now. That was a huge lesson, probably the

1169
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 2: most profound failure.

1170
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a failure.

1171
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 2: And not in the end, it's not, you know, but

1172
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 2: it's it's it was ugly going through it, and you know,

1173
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 2: there are some people who were impacted by that who

1174
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 2: probably think, you know, why did he have to be

1175
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: the way he was? But it wasn't an option. It

1176
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 2: wasn't and I don't regret it, and it's not a

1177
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 2: big deal to talk about it now because I didn't

1178
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 2: keep it, it would have turned into shame.

1179
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: Right, and then it would have eaten you away, it.

1180
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 2: Would have yeah, yeah, no, So it was very liberating. Yeah,

1181
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: but it is a little embarrassing because it's like it

1182
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 2: doesn't come up in daily conversation and when you know,

1183
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: as you can tell, it took me like five modest

1184
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 2: failures to get to that. I'm like, oh, and there's

1185
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: just one other thing that's kind of the biggest by

1186
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 2: a mile, But that was a big one.

1187
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: Like those are career crossroads and they're really tough to navigate,

1188
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: especially when integrity is involved. And I've been there too.

1189
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: I have been there. Too in those moments. Thank you

1190
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: for sharing that. I appreciate it. Let's do a lightning round.

1191
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 3: Okay.

1192
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: Career highlight.

1193
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 3: Career highlight.

1194
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 2: Last September playing the Ocean's Calling Festival on my sets

1195
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,439
Speaker 2: earlier in the day, Counting Crow said, Hey, why don't

1196
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,959
Speaker 2: we do your song? Almost woke you up in our set.

1197
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 2: So there are forty five thousand people there. I happen

1198
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 2: to have my daughters with me.

1199
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 3: They said they got to sing too.

1200
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: So I rolled out on stage front of forty five

1201
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: thousand people singing my song between my favorite band and

1202
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: Adam Durrett's on my left, and my two oldest daughters

1203
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 2: on my right, and my family and the wings. And

1204
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 2: that is as close to heaven as I've known.

1205
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: It get better, it doesn't get better.

1206
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, good special.

1207
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: Who's the greatest singer songwriter of all time? Is it Dylan?

1208
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: Did I shoot on your greatest writer?

1209
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,919
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't see, because Dylan has a changed.

1210
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 3: But you know who i'd put in there?

1211
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put I'm gonna, I'm gonna you're supposed to

1212
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 2: answer one. I'm gonna put Tom Petty and Taylor Swift

1213
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 2: in there. Excuse me for sure, Tom Petty and Taylor Swift.

1214
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 3: They're my true Norths. But but if you're but I

1215
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 3: kind of feel like i'd answer with Dylan.

1216
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 2: But my true Norths are Tom and Taylor because they

1217
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: have they have changed their gears, genres, they brought their

1218
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 2: people along with them, right there are Their catalogs are

1219
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 2: just massively filled with moving music that that that just

1220
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 2: doesn't that defies genre.

1221
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 3: I think those are my people.

1222
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 2: I love that.

1223
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can talk about Taylor Swift later, but I

1224
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah for you, Yeah, what's the best concert

1225
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: you ever attended? Not playing at Uh?

1226
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 3: That's between Petty.

1227
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 2: Petty used to say, you have to get the audience

1228
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 2: ready to take what you want to give them, which

1229
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: I thought was such a nice balance between like you know,

1230
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 2: Ryan Adams like I'm gonna do whatever I want it right,

1231
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 2: and you know bands that I don't want to name

1232
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 2: who are so people pleasy that they just kind of

1233
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: just the hits.

1234
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 3: And it's like, No, I thought that was so between

1235
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 3: Petty and.

1236
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: You can be mean, I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, no,

1237
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 2: I I it'd be between Petty and def Leppard for me.

1238
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gonna make John so happy.

1239
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, def Leppard.

1240
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 2: I mean, that is a great concert. And Kirsen, my

1241
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 2: wife was all She's like, I don't know if I'm

1242
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: gonna be into this like eighties metal, And I was like,

1243
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 2: you wait, and I swear she was.

1244
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: She was.

1245
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 3: She would have gone home with Joe Elliott.

1246
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 2: It was definitely like I had to pull her out

1247
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 2: of there by.

1248
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 3: The time we left. Yeah.

1249
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's the song you wish you'd written?

1250
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 2: Cats in the Cradle. That's the one I've been chasing

1251
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 2: my whole life, you know, that's the one I've been

1252
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: chasing forever.

1253
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: Well, you've written a lot of great songs about your

1254
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: daughters and your family. I know.

1255
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 2: I keep thinking, well, I've got them all now, And

1256
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 2: I keep telling my manager too. I'm like, I'll, uh,

1257
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna you know, I'll pivot away and write about

1258
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 2: the things other than family. But it's just there's more,

1259
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 2: there's more juice in the in the lemons, good stuff.

1260
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: This is controversial. Okay, we both live in Connecticut. Yeah, pizza,

1261
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: New Haven Pizza? I new, of course you did. Are

1262
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:24,480
Speaker 1: you fan or not?

1263
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 2: Hell? Yeah, Okay, you don't like New Haven pizza. That's

1264
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. Peppe's.

1265
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: Is it's mad, it's mad, it's fine. I feel like

1266
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: it's a marketing scam, Like I don't understand why. What

1267
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: the difference.

1268
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 2: Is the white clam pizza at Peppi's whole clams on

1269
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: a pizza, Okay, it's like.

1270
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 3: The greatest of all foods.

1271
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: So do you think it's the best pizza New Haven

1272
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: style pizza?

1273
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, I really like pizza posts in Greenwich,

1274
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 2: you know, I like just the cheese. Did they do

1275
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 2: pizza so well in Connecticut?

1276
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: Okay?

1277
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 3: In the Tri state area, giving.

1278
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: New York a nod, a nod, A little New York

1279
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: New York's okay too.

1280
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 2: I think my favorite pizza places are in Connecticut. But

1281
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 2: that's maybe that's just not meg Pride right.

1282
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: Well, listen, I like I like a lot of Connecticut

1283
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 1: pizza too. I like Rico's and Colony Grill. I like

1284
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 1: that hot oil fin pizza.

1285
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:13,439
Speaker 2: That's all really good.

1286
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 3: That's really good.

1287
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 2: That's unique too.

1288
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: There's really no and it's and it's family pleasing. The

1289
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: whole family loves it.

1290
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 3: But is that the best? Is that?

1291
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 1: No? The best is New York style pizza? Steven, I

1292
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: don't know.

1293
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 2: Why we're wearing New York's in my favorite.

1294
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: It's sixteenth and seventh. It's not like the big ones,

1295
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: but it was.

1296
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 2: You know that I adore food, and I feel like

1297
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 2: you should have told me this earlier, that there were pizza, Like, yeah,

1298
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: we go for oysters and steak.

1299
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: I know, but listen, No, I don't dislike New Haven's

1300
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: style pizzas. Just so much marketing. When you come into Connecticut,

1301
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 1: the sign says like home of like famous for the

1302
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: pizza or something. This is insane, but even.

1303
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 2: The best places are really great.

1304
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 3: No, I think you.

1305
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 2: I think you're being a little I think you need

1306
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 2: to reconsider.

1307
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:03,439
Speaker 3: Let me just ask you to be clear.

1308
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 2: You've had the white I knew it. This is it.

1309
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 2: You're like someone that's watched the movie and it's like

1310
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 2: I didn't think that was a good book.

1311
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 3: You've got it.

1312
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 2: I think, let's have it and then you can pass judgment.

1313
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 1: So what I need to judge New even steal pizza

1314
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: on is the white clam pizza at Pepees at.

1315
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 2: Peppe's and not from sales because they do a different

1316
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 2: white clam.

1317
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 3: Okay, so it has me.

1318
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 2: Peppees just try it and then see if you feel

1319
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 2: the same way. Again, I wouldn't say it's the best

1320
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 2: because it's such so unique. It's like colony grills, hot oil.

1321
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 2: It's that's like its own things. That is a wonderful,

1322
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 2: wonderful pizza. Yes, I feel like to judge pizza, you

1323
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 2: kind of have to just judge.

1324
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 3: The cheese pizza and see what it's right, you know.

1325
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 2: But this white clam pizza is one of the greatest

1326
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 2: things ever.

1327
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 3: And once you've done this, let's revisit it.

1328
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 1: And I trust your food.

1329
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 3: An addend him to this PODCASTA.

1330
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: That's fine, that is fair. Yeah, favorite movie about a

1331
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: musician or a band. It doesn't have to be a biopic.

1332
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: Oh gosh.

1333
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: Uh well, I loved the Glenn Hansford one, The Commitments.

1334
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 2: That was really fun. That was really good. Yeah. Yeah,

1335
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 2: that made me want to be a soul singer. And

1336
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 2: you know, in Glenn's school and that's that's good stuff.

1337
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: Yeah about the Commitment, Yeah, it's a great one. I know.

1338
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 2: I gotta watch out with the kids too, that'll be cool.

1339
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: Did you ever see Satisfaction?

1340
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 3: No, what's that?

1341
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: It's I think like Justine Bateman, maybe Julia Roberts too.

1342
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:28,959
Speaker 1: They're in a band.

1343
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 2: Okay, eighties nineties.

1344
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: My producers are looking at me like, yeah.

1345
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 3: I don't think I've heard of this? Is that definitely

1346
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:37,440
Speaker 3: the title?

1347
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Justine Batman, Julia Roberts, Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson

1348
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 1: has a special set of skills.

1349
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 2: Before the thriller genre became his go to, he was

1350
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 2: making music movies with Julia Roberts.

1351
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a cult cult classic. It's a fun one,

1352
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: I think.

1353
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 2: No, I'll check it out. I'm a say I like

1354
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 2: all those. I often feel that the or not. I

1355
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 2: thought Crazy Heart was a very authentic look, you know, yeah, yeah,

1356
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: you know in a way that and I'm not I'm

1357
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 2: not like a hater, but in a way that a

1358
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: star is born.

1359
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 3: Just did that, just didn't miss free You. That did

1360
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 3: not fly for me.

1361
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 2: And the music was great and I had friends that road.

1362
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody did a good job to me. That's like,

1363
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 2: sure you can watch that and imagine that that's how

1364
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 2: this business is. But I would put on Crazy Heart

1365
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 2: and you know, before you make a comment about white

1366
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 2: clam pizza, that's all I'm saying. You know, it's like perfect.

1367
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, final question, it's the most important to me. When

1368
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: is it iced coffee season.

1369
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 2: This is going to be like your Dylan thing. I've

1370
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 2: never had coffee, so I don't know. I'm sorry. Thank

1371
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 2: you for having me on your podcast.

1372
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lauren, is that the first time someone said I've

1373
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: never had coffee?

1374
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah.

1375
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 2: History is not a just think. I just I just

1376
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 2: it's just one of I have plenty of vices, and

1377
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 2: I'm English and I kind of got into tea and

1378
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, never had coffee.

1379
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: You don't have to apologize for that, but I can't.

1380
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 1: You definitely can't answer the question right right because the

1381
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: answer is year round. Okay, Okay, there's no season. It's

1382
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: year round.

1383
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 2: And then you're like, and dunk it brought to you

1384
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 2: by Duncan don'huts.

1385
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 1: I wish it brought to you by Duncan don'nuts. I

1386
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: diver for them to sponsor us. No, that's okay, it's okay.

1387
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: It's just very important to me iced coffee. But I

1388
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: love getting We have had so many different answers on

1389
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: this podcast. From the correct one, we've got the correct answer,

1390
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 1: but we've also had well I think it's June to

1391
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: July or you know whatever, great answers. So It's a

1392
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 1: great question and you learn a lot about a person

1393
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 1: by asking it.

1394
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 3: I guess so. I guess so, Stephen Kellogu.

1395
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:50,040
Speaker 1: I adore you, and thank you so much for coming

1396
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 1: on Off the Cup. I loved this conversation, and you

1397
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: know I could talk to you forever. Luckily I get

1398
01:06:55,000 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 1: to I get to you, guys, all right, thanks, thank you.

1399
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1400
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 1: part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,

1401
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: check out the other Reason Choice podcasts Spolitics with Jamel

1402
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: Hill and Native Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I

1403
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: am your host, Si Cup. Editing and sound design by

1404
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Si Cup, Lauren Hanson,

1405
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 1: and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts,

1406
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.