WEBVTT - Bakari Sellers' Vanishing Country: Is It Worth Saving? 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.720 This episode is sponsored by FX's Fleischman Is in Trouble, 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:09.399 starring Jesse Eisenberg, Claire Danes, Lizzie Kaplan, and Adam Brodie. 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.680 The strama tells the story of recently divorced Toby Fleischmann, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:15.320 who dies into the world of at bass dating with 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:17.360 the kind of success he never had in his youth. 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:21.280 Then his ex wife disappears, leaving him with their two 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.880 children and no hint of her return. Effectus Fleischman Is 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:42.960 In Trouble, streaming November seventeenth only on Hulu. Welcome to 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:47.120 PM Mood then No Talking Points, No Bullshit podcast that 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.960 takes you behind the curtain, off the red carpet, and 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.040 to the front lines of progress with change makers and 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.200 innovators that are doing the work to shift our culture 0:00:56.280 --> 0:01:01.240 and expand our social impact. I am so excited to 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:06.520 welcome to p M Mood, friend, activists, all around, badass 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.160 and now new author Bakari sellers of the book My 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:15.560 Vanishing Country, a memoir. You're also a CNN political analyst. 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.360 You're also the youngest um a member of the South 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.600 Carolina legislator that was that was ever elected at that 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.600 time twenty two. I don't know how you go about 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:28.400 getting elected at twenty two. I wasn't electing to do 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:34.679 anything but tequila, um at that age. Okay, okay, okay, 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.520 So I don't feel I don't feel that bad. But Bacari, 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.960 how are you doing? And and you know this this book, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.759 I'm excited about it. I'm excited because I don't have 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.760 anything hopeful that I'm reading right now because I should. 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.120 That sure is not the news. Um. So tell me 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.400 about the title, about the memoir, about what sparked this, 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.480 and how things have changed, given the the kind of 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.240 the climate that we're in right at the moment. So 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:03.720 the title My Vanishing Country, it means a few things 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.600 for me. It's about that rural community, that rule upbringing 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.880 that many people have throughout the South, especially these towns 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.680 at once were bastions of upward economic mobility. Those small 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.200 businesses are being shuttered, those manufacturing companies have left. Things 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.600 have changed, and the country that we knew, that country 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.600 living that we knew, is vanishing. And then on the 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.440 fifty view, the fifty thousand foot view, those ideals that 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.640 all of us hold true, you know, not just the 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.880 access to life, liberty and the ability to pursue happiness, 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.080 but also justice and freedom and peace, these not so 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:43.000 tangible ideals for many people of color, poor people, immigrants, 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:46.960 those ideals aren't They're vanishing there. They aren't attainable for 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.799 us any longer. And so, you know, I thought about it, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.799 and my publisher was telling me Patrick, who I love, 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.480 my editor, He was telling me how this book couldn't 0:02:58.520 --> 0:02:59.519 have come out at a better time. A lot of 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.680 people have their dates back. We started talking about it, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.040 We started having a conversation. You know, Corona is ripping 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.120 the band aid off the issues of systemic injustice and 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:11.760 racism in this country. Brianna Taylor and a mod Aubury's 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.480 lives were taking from them, one by law enforcement, the 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.600 other in a good old fashioned South Georgia by the 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:21.079 sun lynching. And I realized that this book is ever 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.400 green because we talk about those issues, we highlight those issues, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.360 and any time it would have come out, we still 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.839 would have been talking about those systemic injustices. We still 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.760 would have been talking about those lives cut short. And 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.720 so I'm just happy I'll share this with you, Danielle. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.200 I wasn't trying to write a memoir at thirty three, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.520 thirty four years old. I wanted to write a political book, 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.280 but no one wanted to buy it. For Tracy Sharad, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.600 Judith Kerr and Patrick Bass gave me a chance to 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.160 tell my story. I thought it was one of the 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:51.920 country needed to hear. And I'm really happy that I 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.800 put my trauma, everything I lived through, down on paper 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.200 so that hopefully others can It may not my trauma, 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.200 may not be your trauma, but I believe that if 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.120 we if we try to understand, have some compassionate empathy, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.960 we can persevere. So I'm hopeful. I have to be hopeful. 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:10.640 I have sixteen months o twins. They don't deserve Donald 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.600 Trump as president of their United States of America, and 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.520 so I'm hopeful we can change that. You know, what 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:21.480 I love about your book is that it is to 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:26.600 me reading it, the child of immigrants did this country. 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:30.760 My family was born in Jamaica, But it's this idea 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.920 of country and of rural America. And you know, we use, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:39.000 as you know, having been a son of the South, 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.760 use a lot of coded language, right, so even just 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:48.240 in you know, in this past and primary cycle, when 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.359 we are talking about working class Americans or we're talking 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:58.240 about rural America, it conjures a picture in your mind. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.120 In the media or the media present this has presented 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.520 this narrative that that is white people right. So when 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.920 we are talking about rural America or real America, we 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.400 are talking about white America. So can you talk a 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:18.360 bit about what it means to be country, to live 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:23.560 in the country, to having grown up in rural America 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:28.640 where you know, we are seeing and have been participating 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:33.120 in this divide, you know, urban against rural, urban against suburban, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.919 and all of these things, and black people we live everywhere, 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.400 and yet and yet urban right is the moniker in 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.920 which we are forced to carry as if that's the 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:46.600 only place that we have ever been. And obviously your 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.600 book goes into great depths into the exploration of that. 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.880 So we give we try to pull that ugly We 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.080 just pull that ugly lie apart that the media and 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.320 Democrats and Republicans are like trying to try to, you know, 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.480 get us to believe in adhere to that for some reason, 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:07.719 rural means white, working class means white. No, I say 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:09.200 that's not the case, because that's not that ain't how 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.599 I grew up. I grew up around the black in 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.880 the black working class. I grew up in rural America 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:19.840 with black folk. I grew up with the roads from 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.839 the black man, which does not mean black folk live there, 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.800 but the black book talk about the richness of the 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.240 soil from the crops we used to plant. I talk 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:30.760 about that up bringing, but I also talk about the 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.200 political overlay of living where you don't have access to 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.680 quality healthcare, of living where you have a quarter of shame, 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.040 where you're eating in air or don't work in your infrastructures, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.720 falling a part of your schools. I talk about living 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.200 in food deserts. I talk about living where you're drinking 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.000 unhealthy water, or you're living next to the brown fields. 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:46.520 I talk about these things because I want people to 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.080 understand the plight of what it means to be black 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:50.719 in this country, the plight of what it means to 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.880 be from rural America in this country, in the rural 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.039 America where you may not know. And so I write 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.920 this book saying this. I think when black folk greeted, 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.200 they'll get a sense of pride from you. From New York, 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.600 in Chicago, Philly, you wanted them city. You got your 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.600 people from down South. They from Alabama. Depending on migration patterns, 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:12.920 they from Alabama, Mississippi, Georga, South Carolina. So you'll get 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.360 a sense of pride. I think white folk reading white 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.960 folk reading this book will get a sense of understanding. 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.800 Bishop Jakes and I had this conversation which is actually 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.920 kind of air on Tuesday night, and he talked about 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:28.720 the fact that you can teach people geometry, and you 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.160 can teach them science, you can teach them English language, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.000 which you can't teach them blackness. And I am trying 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.920 to give people our experiences and our trauma so that 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.920 they have understanding. And the only way that you can 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.760 have healthy conversations about race, which I believe my vanishing 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.520 country will spur, is if you is if you have 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.000 some level of understanding. You know, you bring up at 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.960 the at the beginning of our conversation and you talk 0:07:55.000 --> 0:08:01.040 about putting your trauma down on paper. And I often 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:06.920 think that we as as as as black people, right like, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.840 our trauma is so embedded in the story of America 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:16.760 and yet um disconnected from it, right, Um, we are 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.440 so used to seeing our trauma play out as you 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.760 mentioned a Maud Aubrey. How many videos, right do we 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:29.640 need to see of our bodies being brutalized, right, whether 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:31.960 it's Mike Brown and being shot and left in the 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.880 street to bleed out for hours in your neighborhood in 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.560 front of your friends and family, whether it is you 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:42.240 know um Ah Maud Aubrey or or you know Alton 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.440 Sterling or all of these names, filendo castile, all of 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.719 these people. What is it about the expression of our 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.520 trauma that seems to, in your mind, be lost on 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.319 white America in a way that it's it's something that 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.920 they're so used to seeing but not necessarily have the 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.160 ability to connect to. And then also, what do you 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.840 say to those black folks that are just like I'm 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.679 tired of us seeing each other's trauma, and like don't 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.320 share the video, and like stop telling these stories, and 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.880 I want something that is uplifting? What do you say 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.720 to them as well? So, so the first part of 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.920 your question this is about this is the very nature 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.320 and fabric of what this country is. It's the trauma 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.520 of people of color. You know, my father is a 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.520 part of the Imatil generation. He says still is the 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.959 strongest woman in the movement, right because she got it. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.439 She allowed the world to see her son's face and 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.959 all the brutality beaten, there were no bones left, and 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.160 tack in his face off because he allegedly was about 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:44.679 a white woman, and we not know that to not 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.520 be true. And so whether or not you' talk abou 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.560 Jimi and the Jackson, you're talking about, maker average, you're 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.400 talking about in it till you understand it, it dates 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.880 back even decades years, centuries before that. The violence and 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.480 the trauma, the imagery of that is seared into our 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:03.800 collective brains. I think that we have to make sure 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.360 that people in this country that are not us, especially 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:11.000 white folks, see this trauma, because there is a sometimes 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.840 I believe, a will for ignorance to act as if 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.960 it does not exist. And so the best way for 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:18.640 me to show you that they are hunting us in 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.040 the street is to show us being hunted for black folks. 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.000 I think we have to understand the necessity. And I'll 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.520 never compel a black person to watch this that doesn't 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.880 want to watch this, because, as I said, my trauma 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:30.480 may not be your trauma, but we have to have 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.360 some understanding. And there is a level of trauma where 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.640 this may be just too much. And I hear that, 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.920 but I'm going to continue to show these images because 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.240 I think that as painful as they are, I don't 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.840 want these individuals lives or their deaths to be in vain. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.080 I want to remember them for the life they lived. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.920 All want us to remember the power in which they died. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.080 And I also want to try to make sure that 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.960 we ensure we live for them and there doesn't have 0:10:58.000 --> 0:10:59.839 to be another one of them. The latter part of 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.079 the I've failed it because we keep seeing it over 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.040 and over again. But I'm going to keep trying to 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:05.960 make sure that the last video is the last video. 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.319 I always wonder every time I do watch one, when 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.679 the last? When when it will be a last and 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.880 when it will be enough? I think that what's so? 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.319 I mean, you're there's so many different facets of your 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.480 story that is so incredible, and I think that you know, 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.959 one of them being the fact that you are a 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:32.679 movement baby. You are you are literally a product um 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.720 of the civil rights movement. And you talk a lot 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:38.560 about you know both of your parents, but you know 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:43.160 in particular your father who was a political prisoner, right 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:48.480 who did um work to stand up for the people 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.360 of South Carolina. To try and desegregate, to try and 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.920 you know, bring a humanization to um, to black folks. 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:01.760 What does it feel like to at once live that 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.720 legacy that is extended to you by your father, but 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.240 then also explore it in a completely different way, Right, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.920 like you went inside of government, he was working outside 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.800 of government. But like you need both, you need both 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:20.000 and and he in his life that the frame you 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.040 have to look at the totality of his life. Because 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.679 I agree with you, I tell people and you'll you'll 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.319 appreciate this. I tell people all of the time, I'd 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.600 rather be considered that Julian Bond than a Barack Obama. 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.680 And you know, people up by, I loved you. I 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.600 love Barack Obama. I know Julian like I know like 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.080 uncle Julian. I grew up with Julian. I've cried with Julian. 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.800 I need crabs with Julian. You know, he's you know, 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.360 he's been at my house before he passed away. But 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.439 Julian came from that struggle, and so I empathized with Julian. 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.080 He came from that struggle, and then he went to 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.080 the Georgia State Senate and he continued to struggle and 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.040 something I talked about him is both Julian should be 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.600 I love John Lewis. Julian should be the United States 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.679 congressman from that district in Atlanta. Had to have been 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.720 a clean your race. And so I think that for 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:08.560 every Bakari sellers, there has to be a Black Lives 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:10.800 Matter protester are willing to throw a break through the 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.120 side of the building right right. There has to be 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.760 these pressure points. We all, all of us don't play 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.520 the same roles. I think my role is vastly different 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.240 than Philo Bagne, but I think we're both necessary. I 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.760 think my role is different than some of these people 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.240 who are at the forefront of these movements, um, the 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.920 Alicia Garth's for example, who's brilliant. I think our roles 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.760 are different, but they're both necessary. And so my job 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.120 is to lift them up on their leadership platforms and 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.160 push them and push them, and then my job is 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.600 also to listen while they push me. Yeah, you know, 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.400 I think that it's I think that both and is 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.240 incredibly important. And I know that like with inside you 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.079 know of this movement, we sometimes don't give each other 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.640 a break right where it's like, well, why are you 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.760 trying to go inside and be the man right that 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.280 we're supposed to be fighting against. And then and we 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.319 say to the folks that are out in the streets, like, 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.880 you know, you need to understand how systems actually work 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.079 and how to move policy through in order to get 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.480 what you need. And so we need more of the 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.960 Bakari sellers of the world that have the ability and 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:22.480 the nimbleness to straddle both. Thank you for that. Thank 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.080 you keep us in your prayers, because sometimes that's straddling 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.560 in the nimbleness. Sometimes your feet get heavy and your 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.160 back gets weary, But especially when you're dealing with some 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.080 of these new characters that are on the opposite side 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:36.640 of you in this political struggle. Let's talk about those characters, 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:44.360 shall we. So I am in a struggle place myself 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:49.000 where I continue to ask myself and probably more so 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.320 over the last several months, but definitely over the last 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.520 three and a half years of this Trump administration, as 0:14:56.560 --> 0:15:02.240 America just continues to show the ugly side of her right, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:07.440 I continue to ask myself is America worth salvaging and saving? 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.080 And see, I don't have kids. You have beautiful sixteenth 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:16.320 month old twins and so children provide a hopefulness, right, 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.000 like a future that you want to create for them. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:24.119 But as you know, Barack Obama just gave a commencement 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:29.320 to the twenty twenty graduates, and for the first time, right, 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.920 we are not leaving the world better right for these 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:38.240 young people. We're actually leaving them a complete and total disaster, right, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:44.800 climate change, increase, racism in, increased disparities, job now, joblessness 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:51.720 a pandemic, A pandemic, a pandemic. Right, So it's like, 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.000 how how do you reconcile with yourself the idea that 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:59.040 America is worth saving? Or you know, are we in 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.680 a are we in a space where we should be 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.520 wanting to kind of burn it all down to the 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.040 ground so that we can create something new, because it 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.360 seems to be burning itself up just fine. So when 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.400 I refused to give to allow the kemps that the 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.840 scansis is the Henry McMasters. They take a lot from us, 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.600 but I refused to give them my hope. In my faith, 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.720 I believe in with Abraham Lincoln call the better angels 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:26.160 of our nature. I believe in that same promise that 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.600 King talked about. But I also know the work that 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.440 it takes to get there, and in this country we 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:36.000 cannot we cannot, we cannot not articulate the fact that 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.800 we've made progress, but we also have to understand we 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.080 got a hell of ways to go. And so understanding 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.560 this journey for me is looking back and looking at 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:47.360 and that's what I try to do in my country 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.080 through the lens of those who gave so much. You know, 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.000 I look at Democratic Party politics, politics the lens of 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.600 Fanny Gluh Hamburg and Ella Baker like I was able 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.800 to get on the stage in the twenty sixteen on 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.360 Thursday Night before Hillary Clinton, until the world it would 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.119 not be able to be a Hillary Clinton if it 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.240 wasn't a Carol Mosley Broun. It wouldn't be a Carol 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:09.879 Mosley bron if it went to show Chis and went 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.320 to Shirley Chishlm, if it wasn't a family lu Hammer, 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.840 Ellie Bake, Ella Baker, and so I just I feel 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.360 like one it's worth salvaging because we cannot let those 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.480 people down with getting so much and the work their work. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.520 Our work is not yet completed. And you're right, kids, 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.200 change your entire perspective, stady and stokely do not deserve 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.159 to live in a world or Donald Trump is the 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.960 president of the United States. They don't, And so I'm 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.520 not going to. I am not going to. I'm a 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.000 fight like hell to make sure that I don't leave 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.159 them with that and leave them with the remnants of that. 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:44.879 So we're gonna have a lot of listen to the 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.440 four years of Donald Trump will not be as bad 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.760 as the four years of picking up after Donald Trump. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:58.240 I want to believe that we have that optimism. I 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.800 want I want to believe that you are totally and 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.360 completely right in that assertion. But I am. I am 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:12.199 deeply concerned, right, and I think that you know, again, 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:19.000 my vanishing, vanishing country to me, you know, is kind 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.879 of like the nightmare that we're all living in. Is 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.520 that everything for those of us that believe in democracy, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:29.160 you believe in each generation's responsibility to do the work, 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:30.960 to put in the work so that it is less 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.760 work for the generation that comes behind us, it's hard 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.119 not to wake up every day and feel like the 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.320 country is in fact vanishing. And you know, you talk 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:49.800 because you come from rural black America, black working class people, right, 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:55.040 who are all but invisible, right, they're all but invisible 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.119 in this pandemic except for whose toil we wouldn't all 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.879 be able to shell in place, right, got the thesis, 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:04.960 and it's not the thing. And see, I don't want 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.440 people to think that they're voiceless because they ain't handicapped. 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.080 They have a voice. They just their voices have just 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.760 been unheard. And so there's a big difference between being 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:21.000 voiceless per saying being unheard. Some people are voiceless than 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.040 the Clemente Pinkneys of the world. I try to give 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.119 his life voice in this book. But for those working 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.240 class people every day that are toiling in the vineyard 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:35.920 as they say, yeah, this hopefully will be there their elegy, 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.879 you know, and and them having a story that is 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.639 told in one with pride. What do you think is 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:47.159 one of the most misunderstood things, um, that you that 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.560 your book seeks to tell. What do you think is 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:54.440 the most misunderstood thing about um? Black people in the South, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:20:00.879 black people in the country and rural America. UM. The 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.680 belief that we are all ascribed to a culture of 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:09.159 anti intellectualism and we date our cousins like we not 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.200 all fairpoint. We can be country and we can be Bamma. 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:13.960 We can be proud of that. But it does not 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.240 mean that you're going to pull the wool over our eyes. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.159 It does not mean that we have not been at 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.199 the forefront of civil rights movement, gay rights movement. We 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.120 have not been at the forefront of fighting for our 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.679 freedom in this country. You know that we have a 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.320 ton of HBCUs that are that are the you know, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:36.240 the backbone of our culture of intellectualism. And so that's 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.959 one of the main themes that I want to Rebut 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:44.960 to be it doesn't mean that you are some bump. 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.600 I think you're proud of your proude for your merchanarity. 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:49.720 You have a work ethic and motivated and a product. 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:53.919 Do you feel like you have to have that you 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:58.879 have to carry the weight of that experience with you 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.920 wherever you go? Do it? Is it a burden? Is 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.840 it both a burden and a pride to be able 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:09.359 to consistently people see you and they see the star 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:14.000 you know, they seem the glitz and the glamor of 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.359 the CNN and of you know, and of what that 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.200 media shine does. Do you feel that it's a burden 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:26.040 to continue to have to bring that fullness of yourself, 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:30.680 to remind people, to teach people about what it means 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.760 to be country, what it means to be rural, and 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:36.280 what it means being unapologetically black. The answer to the 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:38.879 question is yes. I talked about it in one of 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.480 the more difficult chapters. Are right. It's called anxiety a 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.439 black man superpower, because I suffer from anxiety. I have 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.080 fears of death and failure. Those fears, they though, they 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:54.040 push me, they they motivate me. They try to afford 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.920 me to do better, because you do have to carry 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:58.520 the best example is being on TV. They're on a 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.199 lot of black men on TV. And I say with 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.359 every ounce of humility that I have that you know 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:07.480 when people see me on TV, they for better or 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.000 for worse. That is the image they see of black 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.280 men when they encounter them throughout the world. And so 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.560 you can't afford to have a down moment. And so yes, 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.720 I am living in my truth. Yes I'm unapologetically black, 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.199 and yes I'm very prideful. And yes that is a 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:25.200 burden that, combined with my anxiety, makes me an interesting 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:33.000 virgo to say the least, you know, we we don't, 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:37.000 we don't often and this is this is I think 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.200 a conversation that is always worth having. And I appreciate 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:47.640 you know that chapter, that realness, that rawness of sharing. Right, Um, 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.560 we don't get to talk about our trauma. We don't 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:54.960 even necessarily a lot of times talk about it with 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:59.679 each other. Do you feel like, not because it's a um, 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:02.919 not because of the negative connotations of it, but do 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:07.000 you feel sometimes that if we slow down to have 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:11.280 those conversations about it, that it will overwhelm us? Because 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:13.920