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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative. I'm Bridget Todd

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Speaker 1: and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Today marks the one year anniversary of the insurrection at

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Speaker 1: the Capitol. I live in Washington, d C. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think I'll ever forget going from watching historic returns

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Speaker 1: in the Georgia Senate runoff election and watching votes be

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Speaker 1: certified for President Joe Biden on television to watching violent

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Speaker 1: insurrectionists storm the capital in real time from my apartment,

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Speaker 1: which is only about a mile away now. January six

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Speaker 1: at the Capitol was not the first time that extremists

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Speaker 1: have resorted to violence to try to get what they want.

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Speaker 1: In fact, many of the tactics and major players that

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Speaker 1: led to the deadly insurrection at the Capitol were the

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Speaker 1: very same that abortion providers and advocates have been warning

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Speaker 1: about for decades. A few days after the insurrection last year,

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Speaker 1: I joined my friend Samantha and Annie at the podcast

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Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You to break down the huge

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Speaker 1: overlap between the anti abortion movement and the insurrection at

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Speaker 1: the Capitol and what it means for all of us. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Steph I

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Speaker 1: ever told you a production of I Heart Radio. Today,

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Speaker 1: we are once again joined by our good friend and

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Speaker 1: colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget, Hello, I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: be here again. Yes, always a pleasure to have you.

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Speaker 1: And Wow, I think we recorded in early December was

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Speaker 1: the last time we met up in this virtual podcasting space.

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Speaker 1: And a lot has happened. A lot has happened. Doesn't

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Speaker 1: that feel like it was years ago? It really does.

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Speaker 1: It feels so for and I feel like I have

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Speaker 1: slept a mania nights. There's been a mini a moon

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Speaker 1: set of things have happened. I feel like I've already

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Speaker 1: aged ten years. Yeah, so there's a lot like I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's it was a lot, yes, And so

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Speaker 1: we wanted to ask you because the topic you're bringing

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Speaker 1: us today is related both to past topics you've talked about,

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Speaker 1: but also too what happened in the capital of the

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Speaker 1: violence at the capital, and since you're in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to ask you about it. What was that like?

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Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. It was very odd, as you

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Speaker 1: might imagine. So when I woke up on January Ay six,

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Speaker 1: before I went to bed. I had been watching the

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Speaker 1: numbers come in from the Georgia Senate runoffs, and I

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Speaker 1: was feeling very good. I put on my lucky shirt

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Speaker 1: that has a shirtly chism look quote on it, and

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Speaker 1: so like, you know, I woke up beaming. I remember

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Speaker 1: waking up like good morning. I was so excited, and

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Speaker 1: I think it was because I had not felt that

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Speaker 1: kind of hope in a long time. So I was

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Speaker 1: like feeling very very hopeful that morning, and it was

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Speaker 1: like a like a power and a hope that I

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Speaker 1: had not felt in I guess the last four years.

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Speaker 1: And how quickly that feeling of hopefulness turned into just powerlessness.

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Speaker 1: As I watched, you know, this insurrection happened, and I

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Speaker 1: think that, like I was watching, it happened on television

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Speaker 1: kind of in real time, and so it really got

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Speaker 1: so dark and so serious. So quickly it went from

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Speaker 1: of course, there's just gonna be these Trump supporters, you know,

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Speaker 1: standing out to the Capitol protesting, sure to like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, this is bad. You know, we got you

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Speaker 1: know those things that you get on your phone and

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Speaker 1: there's an amber alert, those like things on your phone.

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Speaker 1: We everybody who was in my household got one of

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Speaker 1: those at the same time from the Mayor of DC

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Speaker 1: saying that there was a state of emergency order, there

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Speaker 1: was a curfew, we couldn't go out. It happened very quickly,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, when I watched it, I'm always making this point,

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Speaker 1: but DC is my home. I was raised here, this

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Speaker 1: is my community. I lived here. This is like what

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Speaker 1: I consider home. And I think that because it's where

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Speaker 1: so much of our federal government stuff happens and where

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Speaker 1: the you know, the capital is, people forget that just

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Speaker 1: regular folks live here, Like this is where people live.

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Speaker 1: And so I was really heartbroken by thinking about this

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Speaker 1: as not just an attack on our democracy and on

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Speaker 1: our capital, but also on my community. You know, d

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Speaker 1: C is largely black and brown, and so when these

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Speaker 1: people were storming the capital, I saw videos where after

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Speaker 1: they were storming the capitol, where did they go, Oh,

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Speaker 1: to our restaurants, to our hotels, to our institutions, And

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Speaker 1: just the idea that these people would be kind of

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Speaker 1: unleashed on my community really hurt. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I always just got to like make sure that that

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Speaker 1: point gets included, that it's not just lawmakers who live

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Speaker 1: in d C. It's real people, some of WHI who

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Speaker 1: have no connection to the government, and so it was

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Speaker 1: not just an attack on our democracy and our capital

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Speaker 1: was also attack on these people are our home, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because we were all watching closely and knowing that you

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Speaker 1: were my one of my connections in d C. Definitely

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Speaker 1: like follow you on Twitter. You actually mentioned like, hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks a lot for bringing in the corona, like not

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Speaker 1: wearing a mask and infecting our city and we were

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Speaker 1: trying to control it, and you just made this bigger

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Speaker 1: disaster because they were not only in your community, at

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Speaker 1: your restaurants, at your hotels, at your places of service,

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Speaker 1: as if this was a free for all, as if

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Speaker 1: nothing were happening, and of course no one was arrested,

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Speaker 1: so therefore they were just out and about doing their thing.

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Speaker 1: I just saw a report saying like a thirty something

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Speaker 1: Capital police officers tested positives for corona just recently. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw you tweeting that. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: she's so right. I didn't even think of that that

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Speaker 1: part because I'm just looking at the violence. But holy crap,

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Speaker 1: it's a pandemic, Y'all's a pandemic. And it's like we

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Speaker 1: just don't need this, and it totally I think that

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Speaker 1: residents of DC have been pretty compliant when it comes

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Speaker 1: to socially distancing and masking and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: But just we have enough stuff going on as a city,

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Speaker 1: you know, on top of the pandemic and everything else.

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Speaker 1: Is it's just like one more big thing that we

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Speaker 1: don't need. And I think it's also really hard to

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Speaker 1: act that d C is not really a state. I

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Speaker 1: think that people just forget, like people don't understand that

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Speaker 1: we don't have the same kind of protections or support

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Speaker 1: that states have because we're not a state. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, when the mayor was trying to get the

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Speaker 1: National Guard to come in, that was delayed because she said,

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Speaker 1: a mayor, she doesn't have that authority, and so she

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Speaker 1: had to get special permission. You know. I think it

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Speaker 1: really illustrated to me how important it is that DC

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Speaker 1: becomes a state at some point, because it just doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: And every other place right now is being ravaged by

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Speaker 1: the pandemic as is d C. And yeah, this doesn't help.

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Speaker 1: We didn't need this. We're already having a tough time.

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Speaker 1: The realities of when people decided to do stupid things exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so glad you're okay. And in the wake of

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Speaker 1: all of this, there's of course been a lot of

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Speaker 1: looking into what happened and what led up to it

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Speaker 1: and the people that were there. And I just remember

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Speaker 1: so clearly you've come on here and spoken a lot

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Speaker 1: about disinformation and missing information, and you said, like, people

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Speaker 1: forget that these online things have real world consequences, and

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Speaker 1: this was like one of the most I couldn't think

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Speaker 1: of a better example. And we were also been talking

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Speaker 1: about women and Q and On and this very specific

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Speaker 1: kind of like fear around children. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things you wanted to talk about today is the anti

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Speaker 1: abortion movement and how that was a part of this

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Speaker 1: whole thing of what happened at the Capitol. Right. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I'm grateful that folks like yourself are continuing to pull

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Speaker 1: apart all the different aspects of how we got here,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Q and on targeting women who are concerned

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Speaker 1: about children, and so I think that the connection between

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Speaker 1: the violence that we saw the capital and the anti

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Speaker 1: abortion movement is just one more of those kind of

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Speaker 1: nuggets that I think we should, you know, not ignore,

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Speaker 1: because there are so many different aspects that got us

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Speaker 1: to January six at the Capitol. I think that we

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Speaker 1: should be talking about all of them, and I think

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Speaker 1: some of them are easier to go sort of overlooked

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Speaker 1: or a race, and I think the connections to the

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Speaker 1: anti abortion movement is one of them, And so I

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Speaker 1: really have to start by shouting out a couple of people.

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Speaker 1: There is a great piece by Lauren Rankin and Refinery

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Speaker 1: twenty nine called how anti abortion terrorism field the MAGA

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Speaker 1: attack on the Capitol. Really great piece. Cannot recommend it enough.

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Speaker 1: And then another investigation by Carter Sherman at Vice called

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Speaker 1: anti abortion activists were all over the Capital riots. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of the information that I have found have

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Speaker 1: come from those two pieces. And I also just have

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Speaker 1: to shout out my friend Renney Bracy Sherman of the

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Speaker 1: organization We Testify. We Testifies an organization that tries to

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Speaker 1: increase representation for people who got abortions, and so they

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Speaker 1: were doing a lot of that work of saying, oh, hey,

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Speaker 1: some of the people who were at the Capitol, they

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Speaker 1: are very known to you know, abortion providers and abortion activists,

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Speaker 1: and so I really just have to shout out the

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Speaker 1: people who are doing the work to make sure that

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Speaker 1: that conversation sort of we get to have it, and

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Speaker 1: that we don't let stigma or whatever keep us from

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Speaker 1: having this conversation that can really help us understand how

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Speaker 1: we got to the insurrection on the six. And then yeah,

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Speaker 1: also just the fact that last week was the forty

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Speaker 1: eighth anniversary of Row versus Wade, you know, the landmark

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in the US, and so

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Speaker 1: on that day, I really was sitting with the fact

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Speaker 1: that the same kind of tactics that abortion advocates have

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Speaker 1: been warning about and screaming about and you know, pointing

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Speaker 1: to for the longest time, those are the same tactics

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Speaker 1: that got us to January six with these people all

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Speaker 1: storming the capital. I think that they're very, very similar,

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Speaker 1: and they have a lot of overlap. Can you break

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Speaker 1: down the disinformation that led up to this one, but

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Speaker 1: also some of that overlap, because this isn't like a

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Speaker 1: new occurrence violence within anti abortion movements. Absolutely, it is

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Speaker 1: not a new occurrence. So just like the insurrection was

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Speaker 1: kind of fueled by what they're now calling the big

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Speaker 1: lie that Trump won the election and that it was

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Speaker 1: being stolen from him. The anti abortion movement has similarly

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Speaker 1: trafficked in just straight lies about abortion, about people who

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Speaker 1: have them, about abortion providers, and I think it really

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Speaker 1: illustrates what happens when those lies go more or less unchallenged.

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, when putting together with my information

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Speaker 1: for this episode, I was like, oh, yeah, some abortion

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Speaker 1: disinformation and misinformation and in accuracies are so common that

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Speaker 1: you don't even really think about it anymore. And actually,

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Speaker 1: just last week, the University of California Berkeley School of

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Speaker 1: Public Health put out a study that found that four

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Speaker 1: of the five most presented web pages in response to

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Speaker 1: a search for abortion pill on Google were less than accurate. Right.

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Speaker 1: And so just the idea that on our biggest search engine,

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Speaker 1: when you Google for information about abortion, it is likely

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Speaker 1: that information is a lie, is not true, and it's

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Speaker 1: like misleading, right. And so I think that a big

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Speaker 1: thing to point out here is what happens when fabrications

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Speaker 1: are just tolerated. That that's just like the state of

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Speaker 1: play when it comes to misinformation. And I think also

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Speaker 1: when you look at, you know, the lead up to

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Speaker 1: the election, we saw so much inaccurate information being flooded

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Speaker 1: on social media about Biden and Harris and their positions

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Speaker 1: on abortion. And the thing that's like really sad but

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Speaker 1: also shows how savvy these disinformers can be, is that

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Speaker 1: disinformers know that there is a lack of good news

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Speaker 1: and media sources that are in Spanish, and so they

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Speaker 1: then fill that gap with inaccurate information that is in Spanish.

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Speaker 1: And so you saw the Latin X community being really

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Speaker 1: targeted and inundated by inaccurate distorted information about abortion meant

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Speaker 1: to impact the outcome of the election. And so another

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Speaker 1: point is that these often are happening in what's App

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Speaker 1: groups that are private, so like unlike Facebook where you

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Speaker 1: can kind of get a sense of like what's happening,

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Speaker 1: or Twitter, where it's happening mostly in public. It's a

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Speaker 1: close platform to have, you know, your private what's App

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Speaker 1: group with your aunts and uncles and cousins, right, And

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Speaker 1: so we saw lots of really horrific anti abortion messaging

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Speaker 1: targeting the Latin X community in Spanish speaking community is

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Speaker 1: on these platforms. And so yeah, I think that much

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Speaker 1: like with the insurrection, when you have just an accepted

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Speaker 1: baseline of inaccurate information about people who have abortions, about

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Speaker 1: abortion providers, about underrepresented our marginalized communities. It can actually

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Speaker 1: translate to real world violence, real world danger, real world threats.

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Speaker 1: This is not something that this is happening online. Researchers

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Speaker 1: have been very clear about that. You know, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I just read and we just know

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Speaker 1: that happened in Kentucky is they passed the born alive

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Speaker 1: abortion ban, which is nothing more than a political statement

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Speaker 1: trying to do some fear moongraing saying this is what's happening,

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Speaker 1: this is what the Democrats are doing. You see, they're

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Speaker 1: killing the babies after they're born, which is absolutely false.

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Speaker 1: But then we have a narrative where they actually put

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Speaker 1: it into law, so it seems like it's real because like,

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Speaker 1: here's an a moment that's attitude state law. We have

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Speaker 1: to address it as making it illegal because it's happening

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Speaker 1: so much, which is a part of that misinformation that

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Speaker 1: is being thrown out there. But it's so scary, and

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Speaker 1: which is also why this back and forth about this

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Speaker 1: unity and letting people go because you know, they didn't

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Speaker 1: know what they were doing. Trump told them to do it.

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Speaker 1: All this it's this level of giving some kind of

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Speaker 1: meat to this rumor, which is completely unfounded, but because

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Speaker 1: it's a political move it's so scary to see because

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Speaker 1: once again, here we go with this misinformation, not just

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Speaker 1: being a rumor, not just being an outright lie, which

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Speaker 1: obviously people are believing anyway. How do you see with

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Speaker 1: all of that, with that type of strategy, with that

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Speaker 1: type of fear mongering that's actually part of our government structure,

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Speaker 1: how do you see that bleeding into things like these riots?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's so incredibly frustrating, Like what you

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Speaker 1: just described, I have worked in the feminist movement and

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Speaker 1: you know, spaces like that for most of my adult life,

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Speaker 1: and it's not new, but it is. It sure is frustrating,

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Speaker 1: you know, when we spend actual resources and time and

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Speaker 1: energy on things that are not true, things that are

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Speaker 1: just like fabrications. And I I understand the sentiment. You know,

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Speaker 1: A good example is when Project Veritas put out those

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Speaker 1: videos purporting to show Planned parenthood staffers talking about selling

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Speaker 1: body parts and this and that. That was a fabrication,

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Speaker 1: But yet we still had to spend time and resources

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Speaker 1: combating something that was a lie. And I think that

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Speaker 1: you're exactly right that, yes, it's annoying that, like taxpayer

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Speaker 1: money and resources gets spent on making laws or legislation

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Speaker 1: about things that just aren't happening. But even more than that,

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Speaker 1: it's like it takes up so much oxygen in the room,

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Speaker 1: Like what meaningful policies could we be discussing or getting past?

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Speaker 1: What kind of progress are we not able to get

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Speaker 1: to because we were too busy spitting in a circle

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Speaker 1: about something that was a lie. So I think that

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Speaker 1: as much as what you just described is horrible, it's

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Speaker 1: also just it's such a waste because it just takes

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Speaker 1: up so much energy people have to spend their time

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Speaker 1: combating against things that are just flies. And I think

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Speaker 1: that we really have to get to a place in

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Speaker 1: this country where I'm not gonna say it started with Trump,

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Speaker 1: but he certainly didn't help. I feel like we've gotten

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Speaker 1: to a place where people don't understand that there's lies

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Speaker 1: and there's true and you can have your opinion. There

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Speaker 1: are things where you're like, oh, well, I'm not so

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Speaker 1: sure of course, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: some things are just live. We have a lot facing

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Speaker 1: us as a country. We don't have time or resources

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Speaker 1: to spend on things that are just lies. So we've

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Speaker 1: got to get back to a place where we can

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Speaker 1: all agree like some things are just not true and

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Speaker 1: not worth taking the oxygen out of the room to

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Speaker 1: combat them, you know what I mean. So with that,

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Speaker 1: because of stuff like that, it as another additional need

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Speaker 1: of protection for women specifically, but even men. And of

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Speaker 1: course we can go into the conversation about how to

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Speaker 1: abortion movement is actually a misogynistic movement in order to

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Speaker 1: control women's bodies. That's the whole conversation we've had before,

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Speaker 1: probably need to have all the times. But when we

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Speaker 1: look at things like this riot, when we look at

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Speaker 1: the people who are actually involved with it, like you said,

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Speaker 1: they were able to pinpoint, Hey, that dude is known

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Speaker 1: for coming to threatened women, that dude is known for

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Speaker 1: harassing women trying to get to an abortion clinic just

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation, or even supporting planned parenthood. How

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Speaker 1: do things like legislation like this feed into movements like

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Speaker 1: this that causes this like violent rhetoric and almost a

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Speaker 1: mob lynching mentality. Yeah, it's a great question. I think

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Speaker 1: it legitimizes them. I think when we treat movements that

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Speaker 1: are not above threatening, violent tactics, agitation, things like that.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I am a protester, you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: protesting since I've been a child. So I completely, a

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Speaker 1: thousand percent support anyone's free speech and ability to assemble

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Speaker 1: and protests, even if it's personal thing I don't agree with.

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Speaker 1: That is a tected thing, and I find it to

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Speaker 1: be quite sacred. However, harassing people trying to get to

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Speaker 1: a clinic so that they can't get into the door,

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Speaker 1: that's different, right, Threatening violence, that's different. And so I

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Speaker 1: think that when lawmakers, public policy officials, folks like that,

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Speaker 1: when they create policy that says, oh, what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: that's okay, Like, okay, we'll put out a law that

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Speaker 1: says this thing that has that is not happening, it's

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Speaker 1: against the law. Now, it's like, I feel like it

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Speaker 1: just legitimizes and emboldens people that they can use these

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Speaker 1: kinds of tactics to get what they want, right, and

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Speaker 1: that's to go back to the insurrection for a moment.

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that's been so

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Speaker 1: frustrating in the aftermath of this conversation, people saying things like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you vote to impeach Trump. That's just

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Speaker 1: going to make them more angry. And it's like we

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Speaker 1: can't have this. It's like like we can't live in

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Speaker 1: a country where we are afraid to do what's needed

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Speaker 1: to be done because people think that it's okay to

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Speaker 1: respond with violence when they don't get their way. It's

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Speaker 1: like that, like we can't have that. A country can't

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Speaker 1: be built on that. Yeah. And going back to this

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Speaker 1: anti abortion movement and its relation to to the insurrection,

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Speaker 1: it's something we've been talking about a lot lately, and

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Speaker 1: I've been on my mind a lot lately. Is how

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Speaker 1: kind of new it is, Like in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways it's old, but like the strength with the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party with conservatism and women are people just voting on abortion?

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Speaker 1: And then how like emotional an issue that is for people?

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Speaker 1: And then like you said, all of this like these

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Speaker 1: false facts and disinformation and misinformation, and people who were

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Speaker 1: watching this and who were listening to Trump and and

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Speaker 1: watching this like, well, I guess like we didn't know

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Speaker 1: it was gonna be right then, but this thing he

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Speaker 1: was holding and they were saying like, no, this is

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Speaker 1: the anti abortion movement is going to be involved in

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Speaker 1: it and it turns out, yes, um, can you talk

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Speaker 1: about that? Yes, that's exactly right. So here's what Aaron Mattson,

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Speaker 1: the executive director of Reproaction, which they track anti abortion activists.

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Speaker 1: Here's what she said. She says, anti abortion agitators have

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Speaker 1: been calling and supporting the president. I guess the then president.

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Speaker 1: The President's called the store in Washington for some time.

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Speaker 1: I know, and I am confident that as time goes

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Speaker 1: on and more and more of these photos are analyzed,

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Speaker 1: but we'll see more overlap between the anti abortion movement

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Speaker 1: and the white supremacists who tried to overthrow the United

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Speaker 1: States of America. And she was completely right. A number

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Speaker 1: of very prominent anti abortion voices were president at the

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Speaker 1: Capitol in June six. And this is not a coincidence.

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Speaker 1: There has been this long standing crossover between the two movements,

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Speaker 1: the anti abortion movement and white supremacist terror movements. Like

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Speaker 1: that is not a new thing. It's gives you all

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Speaker 1: have done such a great job of talking about there's

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Speaker 1: so much to untangle when it comes to you know,

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Speaker 1: white supremacist movements, anti abortion movements, anti women movements, they

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Speaker 1: are all kind of in the same stuff, mixed bag

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Speaker 1: I yes, you would say. And Vice had a really

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Speaker 1: great rundown of all of the different prominent anti abortion

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Speaker 1: voices who were at the Capitol that day. Abby Johnson,

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Speaker 1: she's one of the nation's highest profile anti abortion activists,

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Speaker 1: um and she was in d C. She tweeted an

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Speaker 1: image of herself at a Trump rally that preceded uh

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Speaker 1: the invasion of the capital, and she wrote front row

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Speaker 1: with the most pro life president of our country. John

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Speaker 1: Broke Coved, who was a convicted abortion clinic bomber, live

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Speaker 1: streamed himself at the Capitol on January six, as he

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Speaker 1: put it, quote fighting for our beloved President Donald J. Trump.

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Speaker 1: Taylor Hansen, who you might know he got very popular

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Speaker 1: by putting these murals up all over the country that

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Speaker 1: said baby lives matter. He was there. And also Derek Evans,

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Speaker 1: a member of the West Virginia House of Delicates, live

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Speaker 1: streamed a video of himself in a helmet urging rioters

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Speaker 1: to break into the building. And two years earlier, a

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Speaker 1: court forbid Evans from having any contact with a woman

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Speaker 1: who helped escort patients at West Virginia's lone abortion clinic

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Speaker 1: after she accused him of regularly standing outside and harassing her.

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Speaker 1: So these are people who have documented histories of a

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Speaker 1: either being very prominent anti abortion voices or b I

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Speaker 1: just showing themselves to not be above threats and violence

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Speaker 1: to push their extreme anti abortion agenda. So it's not

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Speaker 1: a coincidence that these folks also felt that that kind

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Speaker 1: of extremism was an appropriate response to be used in

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Speaker 1: the capital, you know, and you know, as you're talking

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Speaker 1: about specifically Evans, and of course he actually resigned because

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Speaker 1: of people actually be like, hey, oh, this is not good.

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Speaker 1: Let's not have him represent us, which is nice to see,

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Speaker 1: I guess, but he being a violent person who came

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Speaker 1: yelling after and harassed to the point that women were scared.

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Speaker 1: That was one of the other conversations they were having

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Speaker 1: with the anti abortion was many of the people are like, hey,

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Speaker 1: that dude, he has so much domestic violence. If you

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Speaker 1: look at his rap sheet, that dude is known as

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Speaker 1: being violent towards women. Like all of these things that

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Speaker 1: had shown obvious. Oh oh, these are the dudes who

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Speaker 1: end up being shooters. Like that's kind of that match

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Speaker 1: shooter conversation, Like, these are the same people who are

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Speaker 1: going after people going to harass and trying to assassinate candidates.

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Speaker 1: And we also saw meny who were obviously like the

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Speaker 1: Proud Boys, who were very racist, and we knew they

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Speaker 1: were racist, and we knew they were white supremacists, and

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Speaker 1: they're proud to be white supremacist. And you see all

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Speaker 1: of these people like, oh, those are the violent who

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Speaker 1: are racist and sexist. How do you think that this

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Speaker 1: type of disinformation led to them being the ones that

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Speaker 1: led the riots? I mean, it's a great question. I'm

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Speaker 1: not at all surprised. You know, we know that disinformation

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Speaker 1: largely impacts underrepresented people. So it largely is fueled by

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Speaker 1: these horrible distortions about who we are, whether it's women,

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Speaker 1: black folks, other communities of color. Disinformation is fueled by racist, sexist,

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Speaker 1: like the worst racist sexist imagining of who we are, right,

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Speaker 1: that's complete caricatures. And so it is not surprising to

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Speaker 1: me that these people would be fueled by this kind

430
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,360
Speaker 1: of hateful content and really truly believe it. And I think,

431
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: you know, to your point, the fact of the matter is,

432
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm happy that Evans resigned. That I'm to the point

433
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: where whenever there's some sort of like accountability or consequence.

434
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow, look at that someone faced a consequence.

435
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: They still have those, but these are people who have

436
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: scary backgrounds, right, people who have shown themselves to not

437
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: be above using violence to get what they want. And

438
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: you're exactly right that because we don't take violence against

439
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: women very seriously. Most times, when there's a mass shooter

440
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: or some sort of mass scale violence behind that, there

441
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: is a trail of people who tried to sound the alarm,

442
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 1: usually women. You know, I think it was on Christmas

443
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: Eve that guy who he set off a bomb in

444
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: was I wanna say, Tennessee, Nashville, thank you. Come to

445
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: find out his girlfriend previously was like, I think he's

446
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: making a bomb, right, like like pretty clearly, you know,

447
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: when it's like I wish we could get to a

448
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: place where violence against women was disqualifying that like people

449
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: just didn't it slide because it's so often is an

450
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: indicator that something else bad is going to happen. And

451
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: I just wish that we lived in a world where

452
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: these kinds of warnings were taken seriously instead of being ignored.

453
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: Right when we talk about this information happening and we

454
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: see it being targeted towards women specifically. I was kind

455
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: of shocked to see how many women really really dug

456
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: into Q and on and the whole like I have

457
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: to protect my babies. I have to protect my babies.

458
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: But when it comes down to the violence, more often

459
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: than not, as the men. And again, of course we've

460
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: had this conversation again how misogyny plays a bigger part

461
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 1: of anti abortion movements than we know. How do we

462
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: see that men end up taking these kinds of initiatives

463
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: and owning them I guess is the word, and then

464
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 1: taking it into such a route that it becomes a volatile,

465
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 1: bigger movement than what is online. So as what I'm

466
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: saying is like we see a lot of Q and misinformation,

467
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: and we found out that Instagram was one of the

468
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: biggest of connections for women and she using like influencers

469
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 1: to talk to these women who feel like they need

470
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: to do all these things. But when it comes down

471
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: to like parlor and when it comes down to rend

472
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: it in fourtune, it's the men and who initiate these

473
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: like kind of responses of it. We have to do something,

474
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: let's get armed. And we see that misinformation being bled

475
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: into anti abortion movements, into the only person who can

476
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: say by country is former President Trump. How do we

477
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: see this information being played out where it becomes such

478
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: a big or conspiracy theory that it does lead to violence. Wow,

479
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 1: that's a long winded question. I'm sorry. I mean it's

480
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 1: a big question. I think that we know that if

481
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: you hear something enough times that people eventually believe it.

482
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: And so the more times that you hear something, the

483
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: more times that you hear a false claim go completely unchecked,

484
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: people are likely to believe it. I hope that this

485
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 1: is understood in the spirits, which I mean it people

486
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: who are out to disiniform, out to cause chaos and confusion.

487
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: They're very smart, and they're very savvy, and they're very

488
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: good at it. And I think that the dynam meant

489
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: that you just described where they're sort of a softer

490
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 1: version of it for women to get them involved, and

491
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: then a lot of the violence is led by men.

492
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: I think that is a really smart, savvy way to

493
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 1: structure a movement. And somebody once told me, whatever the

494
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: movement is, there's never any kind of movement without women, right,

495
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: And so I do think that we have to have

496
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: some tough conversations about the role that women played because

497
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: one of the first people to die in the insurrection

498
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: was Ashley Babbitt, a woman who had been completely completely,

499
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: just like consumed by Q and On conspiracy theories. And

500
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: so I think that you see women sort of being

501
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: indoctrinated to be sort of like the foot soldiers of

502
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: this movement where men are largely the ones who are

503
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: pushing for violence, like your boogaloo boys and things of

504
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: that nature. That serves a very important function because I

505
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: think that if women are feeling like, well, I need

506
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: to support this because it's going to keep me feeling safe,

507
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: it's going to keep my position in society intact. It's

508
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: a very smart way to have these kinds of conspiracy

509
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: theories be gendered in the way that they are, because

510
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: I think it does ensure that, you know, if you're

511
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: a woman who maybe isn't so into the whole politics thing,

512
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: but you know you don't like the idea of children

513
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: being targeted, and you get wrapped up in Q and On.

514
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: I think that the idea that the men storming the

515
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: capital are going to create safety for you and your children,

516
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: I can understand why that's a seductive message. You know,

517
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: look at the way. That Trump message to white suburban

518
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: women all throughout the election, saying things like, oh, if

519
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: you vote for Biden, quote, antipa is going to be

520
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: at your front door. You know you're gonna have riots,

521
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: and your in your streets. You know your kids aren't safe.

522
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: I think that he messaged that way because I think

523
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: it's effective. Everybody wants to be safe, and I think

524
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: it's a really smart way to ensure that everybody is

525
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: bought in. Even if you're not like a violent person

526
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: and you're not going to be the one breaking windows

527
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: and trying to like hunt down members of Congress with

528
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: zip ties, you might be supportive of it if you

529
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 1: feel that, like that's what the men have to do

530
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: quote unquote to restore order and keep you and your

531
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: family safe. It's very savvy, and part of me kind

532
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: of is not surprised that it works on so many women, right.

533
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: It was interesting to see also, like the mothers with

534
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: their sons. We had at least two examples of those,

535
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, which I know. There's been articles

536
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: about that as well, including the fact that one of

537
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: the young men who actually is from Georgia Blue Ridge,

538
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: near minor hometown, blamed his mother. In the testimony, he

539
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: actually blamed his mother would an as, I mean, this

540
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: was poor woman, and she was you know what I'm saying, like,

541
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: and that really does tell you all you need to know,

542
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: right that, you know, if you get caught storming the capital,

543
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: that like, oh my mom didn't raise me, right, that

544
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: that would be your first excuse. Honestly, this mom should

545
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: be like, wow, I really didn't do such a hot job.

546
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: I have to wonder what her response was, because all

547
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: I've read was his testimony in which he was like, yeah,

548
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: my mom told me to do this, My mom told

549
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: me to pick those up. My mom did this. And

550
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: it was quite funny because I was like, dude, you

551
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: come in here trying to be big masculine. I'm going

552
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: to kidnap these people and then be like, my mama

553
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: did it right? Throw on your own mother under the bus.

554
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: And it's funny that you say this because I have

555
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: noticed a lot of these people are being released to

556
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: their parents or in the care of a family members

557
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: and things of that nature. Your point is such a

558
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: good one, where it's like what happened to like, oh,

559
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 1: we're storming the capital and we're you know, big and

560
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: bad and blah blah blah. And now when you get caught,

561
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well, I gotta release me to my mom.

562
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: I was like, which is it. If you're gonna be

563
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: an insurrectionist, at least I do it with your shis.

564
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: But you know, well, And just coming back to because

565
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: I think this is just a simple question I do

566
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: and I don't understand it is how did the anti

567
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: abortion movement become the center of this riot? Almost I

568
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: think that there's so much overlap between the two that

569
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 1: I think a lot of these people saw Donald Trump

570
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: as the person who was going to, in their eyes,

571
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: restore the rights of children and the unborn right. And

572
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: so it's it's not even the question of like, how

573
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: did it become? I think it was always there. I

574
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: think so many of the people at the forefront of

575
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: the insurrection also did have this history with the anti

576
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: abortion movement. I think it's like the same way that

577
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: you cannot unpack their white supremacist leanings, their anti women leadings,

578
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: their anti immigrant leanings. I think it's all one big

579
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: ball of yarn that led us here. And the fact

580
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: of the matter is, you even saw anti abortion groups

581
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: spreading this complete lie that quote Antifa was responsible, even

582
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: though we know that's not true, and though we know

583
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: many of these people live streamed their crimes. You know,

584
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: Kristen Hawkins, who is the head of Students for Life

585
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: of America, which is the nation's biggest anti abortion student group,

586
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: she blamed ANTIFA members and other writers for storming the

587
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: cow at all. And so you already have the mainstream

588
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: anti abortion movement circling the wagons to protect the violent

589
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: actions of these people, some of whom are probably doing

590
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: this in support of their anti abortion ideology. Yeah, it's

591
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: so frustrating. I hate that when you're like, but this

592
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: video here, they can still be like no, no. So

593
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: we did see just so much racism and sexism on

594
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: display at this riot, and that there were a lot

595
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: of conversations afterwards, rightfully so comparing the police and like

596
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: public reaction to Black Lives Matter protest versus this riot.

597
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: And then also you have in in this handy outline,

598
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: you gave us the history between abortion clinic violence and

599
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: how that kind of overlaps with what happened. Absolutely so

600
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: one of the things I think is really interesting about

601
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: what some of these abortion activists and advocates are saying,

602
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: is that the same way that many of us, myself included,

603
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: were disgusted watching the police take selfies with the rioters

604
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: and shake their hands and just generally seem very buddy

605
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: buddy with the rioters. That is very similar to what

606
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: abortion advocates and clinic workers have reported when they try

607
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: to engage the police to report violence or threats happening

608
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: at their clinics. And so there's a little piece from

609
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: refinding between nine, she says. In August ninety four, Win

610
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: Indiana abortion clinic received a bomb threat. The city refused

611
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: to dispatch either police or fire officials, forcing clinic staff

612
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: to search for the bomb themselves. Nearly forty years later,

613
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: Becca Balinger, a clinic escort in New York City, called

614
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: it a complaint about protesters violating the fifteen foot buffer

615
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: zone at the clinic. When he arrived, she told her

616
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: Farwy nine, she watched the responding officer approached the violator,

617
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: shake his hand and give him a hug. He then

618
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: turned to the group of clinic escorts and said, what

619
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: are you doing to restrict their First Amendment rights? Today?

620
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: And I think that one it enraged me. It was like, fine,

621
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: this guy, but I do think it shows the level

622
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: to which the police can sort of not always be

623
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: counted on to be, you know, restoring public order. The

624
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: same way that we saw police be buddy buddy with

625
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: the rioters at the Capitol. Abortion rights activists have said

626
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: that this is not surprising. This is exactly how it

627
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: is when we have called to report threats or violence

628
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: at clinics. And the fact of the matter is the

629
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: Associated Press found that law enforcement agencies nationwide has said

630
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: that at least thirty one officers in twelve states are

631
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: being scrutinized by their supervisors for their behavior at the Capitol. Right.

632
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: And so we know that the same way that we

633
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: definitely have a problem with needing to root out people

634
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: that have white supremacist ties who are serving in police forces,

635
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: it is not a stretch to imagine that that is

636
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: also a problem when it comes to anti abortion ideology,

637
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: that police officers they might feel sympathetic to people who

638
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: would be threatening violence at a clinic. Right. And so

639
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: these abortion advocates have been saying, yes, we have been

640
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: reading the alarm about the fact that the police have

641
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: seemed to be buddy buddy with agitators at our clinics

642
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: for years. Again, it's just one of those things. It's

643
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: a tough conversation to have, but we do need to

644
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: talk about the ways that some of these darker forces

645
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: have infiltrated our police, the people who are meant to

646
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: be restoring order, you know. And so I do think

647
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: we have to have these kinds of tough conversations that

648
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: put these things at the forefront. Yeah, and there's such

649
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 1: a like we've been talking about with this like ball

650
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: of yarn or these vinn diagrams and all this overlap

651
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: because if you do look at the history of abortion

652
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: clinics like this is this violence and threatening of violence

653
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: has been there for a long time, like since the beginning, right, Yeah.

654
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: I mean, anybody who has worked in the abortion or

655
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: reproductive rights space can tell you this is not a

656
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: new problem. And I just think we really have to

657
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: grapple with the fact that so many people who work

658
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: in these spaces have been warning that the unchecked spread

659
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: of distortions and lies on social media about abortion and

660
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: about clinics and about abortion providers will lead to real

661
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: world violence. And so I just think it's important to

662
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: note how much overlap there was with the violence at

663
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: the capital and the kind of violence that these abortion

664
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: advocates have been warning of for years. Yeah, it's so much.

665
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: It's so much too untangle as we continue to have

666
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: these conversations, and certainly disinformation is a huge part of it.

667
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: Is there anything you want to shout out, any resources

668
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 1: you want to shout out, or I guess what people

669
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: can be looking for. Yeah, I'm sure I've said this

670
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: on the show before, but the number one thing we

671
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: can all do to curb disinformation is not amplify it,

672
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: even if you're trying to dunk on it, even if

673
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: you've got a great joke. Sometimes it can be hard

674
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: to resist. I know it, But don't amplify it. If

675
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: you focus instead on kind of creating your own little

676
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: pocket of the Internet that can be known for trustworthy information,

677
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: that it's such a better way to spend your time.

678
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: I think that we all have to really understand the

679
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: way that like this is not just something that's happening online.

680
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: You know, I referenced this great more in rank in

681
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: piece that or findye on folction all read that. But

682
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 1: she points out that conspiracy theories and outlandish rhetoric aren't

683
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: without consequences, particularly when encouraged by those in power and

684
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: anti abortion extremists launched a highly visible smear campaign against

685
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood, featuring doctored videos that accused the organization of

686
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: illegally selling fetal body parts. It was absertain, completely untrue,

687
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop congressional Republicans from embracing the conspiracy

688
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: theory to crying Planned Parenthood and opening an investigation into

689
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: the organization. Just a few months later, Robert Dear opened

690
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: fire on a Planned Plarenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, killing

691
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: three people, including a security guard. He confessed that he

692
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: was quote upset with them performing abortions and selling baby parts,

693
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: a direct reference to the cooked up anti abortion smear campaign,

694
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory that certainly has echoes, and other far

695
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: right conspiracies like Q and on and so again, these

696
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: are not just things people are saying online. They can

697
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 1: have real world consequences, just like the continued repeated lie

698
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: that Trump won the election and that it was being

699
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: stolen lad to violence at the Capitol. The more that

700
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: we tolerate just unchecked conspiracy theories and allow them to

701
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: seep into our mainstream institutions like our Congress and our government,

702
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: the higher the risk for real world danger and real

703
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: world violence. And so do not think this is just

704
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 1: happening online. This is a real thing that has real

705
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: consequences for all of us. So with that, because as

706
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: we talked about, they were already putting in laws that

707
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: don't makes us, that are just political games in order

708
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: to continue this rhetoric of lies for anti abortion reasons.

709
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 1: As well as the fact that even though Trump is gone,

710
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: there still the lie of voter suppression is very well

711
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: in play. As in fact, you know, in the state

712
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: of Georgia, and I think I saw it in the

713
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: state of North Carolina, they're already vamping up new ways

714
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: to suppress votes. We've got a Republican state lawmakers here

715
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: in Georgia doing new laws to try to take away

716
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: from absentee voting, shutting down all the polls. So all

717
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: of this disinformation, Like even though it's kind of like, okay,

718
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: we can kind of push it side because Biden's finally

719
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 1: in office, this anti abortion rhetoric is not gone. Just

720
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: because we have an actual pro abortion choice people in

721
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: office doesn't mean this fight it's not over. What can

722
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: we do as a listeners, What can we do as

723
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: the people behind here as we see, it's not just online.

724
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: What can we do in real life to help a

725
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 1: stunt of the spread, but be also be an advocate.

726
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: I think the fact that I forget the numbers, but

727
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: there are a lot of Republicans lawmakers right now who

728
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: to this day will not say that the election was

729
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: not stolen. You know, we have kind of like the

730
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: idea of quote legal votes has made it into our lexicon.

731
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: As if there is a widespread, documented pattern of voting

732
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 1: irregularities in this country. There just is not. There are

733
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: in every election, you have people where it's like, oh,

734
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: I was voting for my son who's at college, or

735
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: this or that. There's always a smattering of sketchiness here

736
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: or there, but there is not any kind of documented,

737
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: widespread voting a regular larities in this election or in

738
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: any of our last recent elections. Right And so the

739
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: fact that things like oh, well, I think we should

740
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: count legal votes has become part of our lexicon and

741
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: has been sort of seen to be kind of a

742
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: moderate thing. I think has done such a great disservice

743
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 1: to our democracy. I don't think we will know how

744
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: bad it is for many years, you know, I think

745
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: it planted a seed in a lot of people that

746
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: maybe we'll never go away. And honestly, I think one

747
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: thing that we can all do is just being willing

748
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: to push back on the echoes of these fabrications. So

749
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: whether you know, if someone says, well, I think we

750
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: should count every legal vote, being willing to say, like, well,

751
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: you know, what do you mean by that? You know,

752
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: tell me do you think there's a lot of illegal

753
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: votes out there? Like? What do they look like? How

754
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: often are they happening? I think being willing to interrogate

755
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: these claims so that they cannot become part of our

756
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: fabric of understanding the world because they're based on lies.

757
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 1: The same way that when people say, like, oh, did

758
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: you know that Joe Biden supports a board shin up

759
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 1: until five minutes before delivery, and saying that's not true,

760
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: that it is incorrect. If someone was trying to do

761
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: a rebortion five minutes before you were meant to be

762
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: in labor, that will be a crime. That's not happening,

763
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: and that's incorrect. This being willing to push back on

764
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 1: these ideas that are based on nothing in ways that

765
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: are going to actually prevent them from becoming part of

766
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,439
Speaker 1: the fabric of how we understand the world because they're

767
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: based on lies. I know that it's a tall order,

768
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: but we have enough in this world to contend with.

769
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: We don't need more, right, That's what I'm having more.

770
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: That's fair. You know, I just have to see you

771
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: one last thing, because you have been in it, and

772
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: you have been in it, whether physically because you're in

773
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 1: d C or because you're part of things like Ultra

774
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: Violet and and talking about this information. What I you've

775
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: been doing for yourself for self care? Because we haven't

776
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: asked this question a long time, but that's been a

777
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: part of our So what is your self care? Oh

778
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: my god, I'm so excited to talk about this. It's funny.

779
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,919
Speaker 1: I mean, it was my mantra the last few because

780
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: just like I gotta get to inauguration, I gotta get

781
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: to inauguration, I gotta get to an I had not

782
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: been doing a great job of taking care of myself

783
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 1: because there was so much after the insurrection on the

784
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: six I think that everybody in my little community here

785
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: in d C was just we had just had enough.

786
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: We had just had it. But you know, one of

787
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: the things that I do to really keep myself grounded

788
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 1: and restore myself. This really is being outside. And so

789
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: this weekend I went on a lovely hike in George

790
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: Washington National Forest and it was very restorative, even though

791
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: it was cold as balls. So just trying to spend

792
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: time outside, trying to remember that I can only I

793
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: can only consume so much. I can only do so much.

794
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: You know, if I read every new take from what

795
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: happened in the insurrection or every new horrible thing that's

796
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: going on, I won't necessarily be any better informed or

797
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: be any better poise to make a difference. And something

798
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: I can really do to make sure that I'm better

799
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: poised to make a difference is like sleep, take care

800
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: of myself, take breaks, And I encourage everybody to do that.

801
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: You know, it can be enticing to want to refresh

802
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: Twitter a million times a day and get every new

803
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: update of every new detail of every new story, but

804
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: that does not necessarily translate to you being better informed

805
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: or a better ally or a better fighter in this movement.

806
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you guys making the space to talk

807
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: about that, because I think it does get erased in

808
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: the movement that like taking care of yourself is very important.

809
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: Encourage everybody too. It's important. What are you doing and

810
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: writing fan fiction? And I got a walking treadmill desk,

811
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: like a really cheap one, really cheap. I don't want

812
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: anyone to be like, wow, no, it's very cheap and small,

813
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: but it's I like it is it under your desk

814
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: right now? No, this is my podcast desk, it's under

815
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: my researches. I used two separate spaces. It sounds like

816
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: you're so rich, Cola, and even if it is a

817
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: small Okay, well I was trying to help you out there. Yes,

818
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: that's what I'm doing. Yeah, I honestly I don't know. Look,

819
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 1: and that's not because I'm not doing things. It's mainly

820
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: because I am so just organized with my time, because

821
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: I am at the worst of keeping things separate. So

822
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: I'll work all the time and then just sit all

823
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,959
Speaker 1: the time too, So it's like one or the other.

824
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: But for me, a lot of like I am a

825
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: comfort person, so I'll rewatch things that I love and

826
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: know how it's going to turn out, and then bask

827
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: in that and then also a lot of cuddle times

828
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: with my dog. Why does it feel so good to

829
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: like rewatch The Office for the hundred times, like, like,

830
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: what is it about it that's so comforting? It feels

831
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: like friends, And because you know coming you're not gonna

832
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: be shocked or just a pointed or if you're going

833
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: to be disappointed, you already know it's going to be disappointing,

834
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: and sometimes you can fast forward through that. Yeah, what's

835
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: your comfort show? Oh? I have a few? Supernatural has

836
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 1: become one, thank you Annie, and I don't know why,

837
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: but it has become one. But also a new Girl,

838
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: Parks and rec have become a few of them. I

839
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: watched some weird things like The Flash. I really loved

840
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 1: that show, and I just love how genuinely sweet it is.

841
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: So I watched really silly things like that, and then

842
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: I'll rewatch movies. You know, Body's business. I love this.

843
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: It's like a prescription for self care and comfort. Yeah,

844
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 1: and also I just wear soft pants. That's my mother comfort,

845
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: soft pants, dog cuddles and the television shows you've seen

846
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: a million times before us sounds great, Well, Bridget what

847
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: else do you think if we left anything out or

848
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: if there's more that you resources that you want to provide?

849
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you want to add, well, I

850
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: would say, if you want to have more conversations about

851
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: disinformation and how it pertains to women and folks of color,

852
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: my podcast There Are No Us on the Internet just

853
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: released a brand new series all about disinformation called Disinformed.

854
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: You can check it out on this very network I

855
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: heart Radio. Awesome. Yeah, and definitely do that listeners. Bridget,

856
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: you want to shout out any any other places that

857
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 1: the good listeners can find you? Yes, I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Bridget Murray and I'm on Instagram at Bridget Murray

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Speaker 1: in d C. Well, thank you as always for being here.

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00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: You managed to make you a delight even though we're

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Speaker 1: talking about things that are not so delightful. It's a skill.

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00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: Thank you. I hope so you know you can. There's

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00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: always room for humor, even if it's gallows humor. There's

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00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: always room for humors. Yes, yes, and we very much

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Can't wait till you're back again. Listeners. If

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00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: you would like to email as you can or email

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00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: The Stuff Media Mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.

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00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never

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00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 1: Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks

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00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: as always too, I'm super producer Christina. Heyy Christina, and

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00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Stufinitely never told you the

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00:45:57,640 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: protection of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from I

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00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit That I Heard You app, Apple Podcast,

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00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H