WEBVTT - Is the world becoming too hot for summer sports? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.120 Okay, listen today, I have a confession to make. I've 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.920 lived in England for eighteen years and I still don't 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:12.039 support a football team. That's because the sport I follow 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:18.080 religiously is cricket, and yet there is something magical about 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.239 the Football World Cup. I return home after a long 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.959 work day and I feel compelled to watch the game, 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.200 even if it is Cape Verde or Kurisow playing, or 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.720 as it turns out, particularly after watching those games when 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.919 Cape Verde and Kurisaw are playing. There is a good 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.520 reason why the World Cup is the most followed sporting event, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.559 and this year's tournament is bigger than ever, happening in 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.839 places that are hotter than ever. This is zero. I 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.680 am Akshadrati this week the future of sport on an 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:57.880 overheating planet. There are two big questions here. The first 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.480 is what is climate change doing to sport? And the 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.400 other is what is sport doing to climate change? Sporting 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.080 events have an emissions impact, and a heating planet has 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.600 impacts on athletes and fans who are facing risks to 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.120 their health and well being doing things that they love. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.640 From adding extra hydration breaks at this year's World Cup 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.080 to the Tokyo Olympics, moving the marathon event a thousand 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:27.320 kilometers northward to manage the heat, to having air conditioned 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.600 stadiums at the Qatar World Cup, to shortening the lengths 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.760 of stages in the Tour de France cycling event. Climate 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.759 change is forcing sport to adapt, but how long can 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.600 they continue to do this when we all continue to 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.759 heat up the planet. To discuss all this and more, 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.960 I am joined by Jessica Murphy, a researcher and professor 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:51.240 at the University of North Carolina who studies the intersection 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.440 of sport and climate change. As always, if you've got 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.840 feedback or guest suggestions for Zero, get in touch at 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:07.400 zero port at Bloomberg dot net. Jessica, welcome to Zero. 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.000 Hi, thank you so much. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.720 Let's start with the impact of a hot planet on 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.040 sports itself, and let's look at the Football World Cup, 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.600 because it's here, the biggest sporting event. It's happening at 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.400 peak somewhere in some very hot places in North America. 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.560 You're speaking to us from North America, and by now 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.320 almost everyone has seen that these games have added a 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:35.359 hydration break midway through each half, and that's a decision 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:41.120 to avoid heat strokes. But athletes are people who are 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:45.760 already competing at the extremes of their body. They're already 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.160 pushing themselves far beyond what most of us are capable of. 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:53.400 So in that context, is climate change a few degrees 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:55.960 celsius of heat much of an issue. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.880 Absolutely, when you're already at an extreme as far as 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.520 the capacity of what your body can do, any slight 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:10.760 shift is that much more dynamic. A matter of degrees 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:21.639 year over year really shows up physiologically, mentally, economically, all 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:27.520 things are stretched that much further when bodies are pushed 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.639 to an extreme, when lifestyles are pushed to an extreme. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:35.840 So any slight change can really be at times catastrophic 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:40.240 and other times and accelerant for human performance. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.400 And can you talk through some examples of what catastrophe 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.920 looks like for an athlete in heart conditions. 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:53.520 Yeah, And exertional related heat illness in many cases is catastrophic, 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.520 and it is a combination at least what we've seen 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.400 as our planet has gotten warmer, that exertional related heat 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.080 illnesses aren't due to one hundred percent to the exertion 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.240 of the body, but it is a combination of the 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:12.080 exertion of the body. Our bodies produce heat but also 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.760 the heat of our planet in the ambient temperatures, so 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:23.040 a combination of both can many times be a medical catastrophe. 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:28.320 Anything ranging from heat syncoped to heat exhaustion, heat stroke. 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:30.640 Those are. 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.400 Public health concerns that do have a fatality rate associated 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.800 with them when it's hot. We do talk a lot 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:45.880 about hydration, sunburn, things that are also very medically severe, 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.960 but takes a bit longer for those to have a 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:54.599 fatality rate. The heat stroke has a palpable fatality rate 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.479 that can really affect people who are putting their bodies 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.880 on the line, and that's elite athletes, but also farmers 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.840 and construction workers and people who you know do very 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:09.360 physically demanding things. But medical catastrophes aren't the only thing. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:16.600 Like there are environmental hazards that can render sport unplayable. 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:22.679 We've seen entire stadiums and arenas destroyed due to climate catastrophes, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.400 So there's a spectrum there. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.839 Sticking to the impact on body, there's heat, of course, 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.800 and heat can be dry heat or it can be 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.800 wet heat and humidity, and a lot of the warnings 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.040 going into the World Cup were to look at like 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.440 players in Miami in Florida playing in humidity. How exactly 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.800 is this combination of heat and humidity a problem. 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.320 Yeah, I'm speaking to you from the southeastern United States, 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:54.680 and we've got this trifecta perfect storm of hazards. Picture 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.920 it as a triangle of heat, humidity, and direct sunlight. 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:04.680 When they owe lab they're really difficult to manage physiologically. 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:09.400 So heat is one thing where drier heats we can 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.479 cool the body off. But that's the interesting thing about sweating. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.560 The mechanism that cools our body down and be sweat 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:21.440 is evaporation. When the air is humid, and it's I 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.800 think we've got an eighty percent humidity here today. You 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.840 can taste it, you can kind of chew. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:27.240 Through the air. 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.400 There's already water in the air, which means our sweat 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.960 now is not evaporating. Instead, it's a layer of sweat 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:35.160 that is warming up. 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:36.000 A lot of times. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:37.680 You know, you put an ice pack on, you get 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.320 some cooling relief from how cool it is. Imagine if 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.400 an ice pack was warm. That's kind of what it 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.640 feels like when sweat can't evaporate off of the body 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.359 and effectively cool itself down. 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:51.320 That on top of direct. 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:56.640 Sunlight makes playing surfaces extremely warm, and it's the body 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.479 working against itself to try to cool off. And as 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.800 the body works against itself to cool off, now it 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:08.679 is expending energy on protecting itself rather than the energy 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.920 to play soccer if that makes it, or to play football. 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.640 And you know, we started with football because it's here 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.360 and soccer as you call it in America. We talked 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.200 about the hydration breaks because of the heat and the humidity. 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:24.040 But just taking a step back, is there like a 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.920 ranking of the most affected sports when it comes to 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:29.920 climate change? 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.800 Hmmm, that's a great question. 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:38.160 Definitive ranking, probably not, but generally and at least what 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.920 we see here in the States that they mirror the 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:46.800 summer and the warmer months. So those sports that take 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:51.440 place between spring and fall traditional seasons, right, but now, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.520 from an environmental standpoint, those are very blurry lines have 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:02.120 a greater exposure to certain heat related hazards because of 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.560 the duration of when the sport is traditionally played. But 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:11.600 then also competition time, competition duration, and frequency of performance. 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.400 So what comes to mind for me really is baseball 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:20.960 that is really popular right now? And through a lot 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:23.600 of the same geographies that we're seeing the World Cup 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.720 playing out with multiple games in a week, lots of travel, 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.480 lots of demands on the body. So baseball is one 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.840 that has a high exposure to some of the most 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:40.440 critical components that you know increase vulnerability for a sport. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.440 But soccer, football, track and field, some of these other 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.000 ones where we can really see the exertion might come 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:48.319 to mind first. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.040 So I grew up in India, and in India, cricket 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.520 is the national obsession. And you know, cricket now actually 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.280 has a US exposure, it has a premier league, and 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.200 I know that the twenty eight Olympics is going to 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:07.000 feature cricket. It's played outdoors that had these huge pitches, 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.160 there are no roofs, and of course playing in India 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:14.800 means high temperatures and in many cases high humidity. Are 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:19.800 there sports you think that would be unplayable in to 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.520 three degree celsius warming that is coming by twenty fifty 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:25.720 or even twenty one hundred. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.480 Yes, the short answer is yes. I love cricket. I 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.040 wish that it was more popular. I wish it was 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.680 something that I could have played growing up. I have 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.000 I exposed some of my students to it last summer 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.080 and we did a whole lesson and were coached, and 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.000 they fell in love with it. And it took a 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.440 lot of convincing to be like, this is a really, 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:51.480 really popular sport, so let's learn about it and grow 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.800 some appreciation. And I think through that we can be 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.960 a little bit more empathetic to the realities that other 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:05.600 sports face beyond what is normal or most popular or 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.839 most televised wherever you happen to grow up. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.679 Sports changes all the time, right, Like the cricket has 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.200 gone from playing being a five day game to now 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.200 having a four hour format. Are there ways in which 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:24.040 you have seen other sports also change because of climate 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:25.920 change that we are seeing. So we saw a hydration 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.760 break in this World Cup. Any other examples that come 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:30.319 to your mind. 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:35.600 Absolutely, I talked about baseball already. There have been rule 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.560 changes and a lot of sports to speed up the 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.560 pace of play. A lot of the times that's marketed 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.680 for entertainment purposes. Right, we have very short attention spans 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.200 as human beings, but it also decreases the time that 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:54.840 we are exposed to the environment. Pace of play makes 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:57.360 what was a three and a half hour game a 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:02.400 three hour game, and that is a considerable amount of 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:08.040 time saved. There are sports that don't really exist outdoors anymore, 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:12.439 where we're seeing the adaptations of the sport being moved indoors, 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.040 and in a lot of cases we see that in 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.440 our snow and ice sports they're played inside. So the 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.439 National Hockey League just wrapped up. We saw Stanley Cup 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:27.120 here in town. The NHL is one hundred percent indoor league. 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:31.599 But hockey originated outdoors on ponds that used to freeze, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:38.880 and so these are slow shifts that over a person's lifetime, 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.280 we won't see the entire time span of the adaptation 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.640 or the change of the sport, but we do see 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.200 these little tweaks across a lot of sports. Equipment is 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.640 changing the style of uniform Shorts are getting shorter, and 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:58.400 pads and helmets are getting lighter to make accommodations and 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:04.080 adaptations for changing climate. Distance runners right, like, the uniforms 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:08.360 are just getting less and less, which is a pro 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.120 and con. There's a lot of technological advances to that, 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.520 but it does a different It has a different effect 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:19.600 on sun exposure and moisture wiking, Like there are these 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.560 constant shifts over time where one day we'll look back 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.960 and say, wow, this sport has changed entirely from how 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:28.800 I remember it. 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.240 But in the moment there are these little tweaks. 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:31.839 Yeah. 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.520 And in cricket, as you know, the ball itself is 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.920 made of leather and it changes as it is played 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.240 in a longer game, especially how the ball changes is 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:47.360 very important, and temperature has an impact on that, and 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.760 the surface has an impact on that. You know, the 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.079 surface can get drier much faster and as a result 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.199 can have more impact on the ball, can change the 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.640 trajectory of the ball, So that's also going to change 0:12:59.640 --> 0:12:59.839 the game. 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:06.400 Surfaces is a totally different topic. That is another podcast episode. 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.320 I think if you are talking about grass and fields 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:15.439 and you know, that is a different can of worms altogether. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:20.800 Talking of grass, you know Wimbledon played in very hot temperatures, Like, 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.960 what would the changes to grass to the game. 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.360 Oh, my gosh, that's a great question. Tennis is so 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:33.600 interesting to me because there are eight plus different ways 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.400 that the game can be played, which is really really cool. 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:41.640 And grass is an element that is so controlled and 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.280 manicured in sport, But at the end of the day, 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.800 it is a natural element in a lot of cases. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:52.160 So turf management is a really comprehensive field when it 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.000 comes to sport and athlete health and safety, but then 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.280 also the playability of the game. So we can see 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.360 the ball bounce in different ways, we can see how players. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.160 Their bodies respond. 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:12.400 To changes in friction in turf density, lots of slips 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.040 and a rolled ankle here and there. That can come 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:20.480 down to how used this place on the grass is, 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.160 and the environment has a lot to do with that, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.600 even if all of the right steps are taken to 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:31.680 preserve it. That conversation has come up some here regarding 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:35.920 the World Cup, especially the sites that are NFL hosts, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.240 and the transition from artificial turf to natural turf grass 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.720 and the soil at the concrete and the substrates underneath 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.800 the grass, and how that might affect the trajectory of 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.800 the ball, or how high the ball bounces, or how 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.400 bouncy the ground is when a player falls. All of 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.840 these things that when you're watching on TV can be 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.760 really hard to digest and see, and so it's super 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.520 comprehensive and really interesting, and I expect it to be 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:08.120 an area that changes. 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.840 After the break. I asked Jessica Murphrey what responsibility athletes 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.560 and teams have to raise climate change as an issue 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.960 for their sports. If you're enjoying this episode of Zero, 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.680 please write us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.240 YouTube and email us at zero port at Bloomberg dot net. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:43.880 I want to come to the impact of sports on 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:49.000 climate change. Yeah, but let's come to emissions from travel 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:53.120 a little bit later. Let's first address the bigger point 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.360 which I feel like we don't talk about often enough, 0:15:56.400 --> 0:16:02.320 which is that sports icons are cultural influencers. These are 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:07.120 athletes with huge following who, if they wanted, can raise 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.360 the profile of climate change and make people think about 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.880 the issues in front of us more. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:13.480 Yeah. 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.640 Are you seeing players take that responsibility seriously? 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:18.760 Yes? 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:24.960 And there's been what I would say a great increase 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:30.520 in athlete activism and advocacy on behalf of the environment 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.560 here recently over the last five or ten years, and 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.560 social media has certainly helped with that. As far as 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.000 the platform and athletes are doing this, I think in 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.920 different ways. Not everyone is extremely outspoken, but they're making 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:53.160 decisions on behalf of themselves and their followers or their fans, 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.800 So there's a whole host of female football players that 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:03.160 signed a protest against so fuel sponsorships of professional soccer, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:09.639 which is amazing to see, especially coming from female athletes, 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.600 as women and children face greater climate vulnerabilities. Having that 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.199 power come from a sector in the sport that is 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:22.320 often overlooked and underpaid, I think is really powerful and impactful. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.120 A lot of the times we do see climate champions 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:30.480 sprinkled throughout a league or concentrated on a specific team, 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:34.679 and there are some sport federations and organizations working to 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.600 make it more of a collective effort. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.560 But it is still, as you said, few places and 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.560 few sport and few people inside a sport that are 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:49.720 doing it. In cricket, for example, the Australian captain Pat 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.639 Cummins is talked about climate change, but it's not like 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.160 every player or every team has a player that talks 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.879 about these issues. Is that because there is still a 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.320 political cost to talking about climate change that there might 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.920 be a backlash if you take this topic up. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.800 I think there are a lot of costs, and politics 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.679 is certainly one of them, and then fan alienation is 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.399 another one that's sort of been studied at the organizational level. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.159 I'm not entirely sure about at the individual athlete level, 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:27.120 but there's definitely some concerns. Athletes have also historically been 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.560 put in a box outside of environmental issues, but social ones, 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:37.880 political ones, educational ones where people look to them to win, 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.840 to score points and earn medals. Anything outside of that, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:48.159 regardless of the domain, has historically been scrutinized to the 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:52.199 point where their livelihoods are at risk. And this is 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:57.400 extended long before there was climate advocacy in sport. On 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:02.680 some of the greatest playing fields the Olympic Games, super Bowls, 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:08.480 Australian opens that there's a lot of pushback when athletes 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.160 do anything other than compete well, and that's a really 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:13.760 difficult position to be in. 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.960 One more shout out should be for David Pocock, who 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:21.520 we've had on the Zero podcast as a politician, but 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.239 before he became a politician in the Australian Senate, he 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.200 was the captain of the Australian rugby team and he 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.480 chained himself to a coal mining equipment while he was 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.359 still playing. Then of course took that activism to politics, 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.000 so sometimes you do get people who take it all 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.879 the way to have impact on the world in a 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.160 positive way. Now, let's come to the smaller but real 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:48.040 impact as well, which is carbon emissions. There are forty 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.120 eight teams competing in this World Club, the most ever, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.160 across three countries, the most ever, and that's why the 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.440 carbon emissions expected from this World Cup are also most ever. 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.240 Seven point eight million metric tons of CO two is 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.239 expected to be emitted as part of it, most of 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:12.040 it linked to the travel that happens of the audience 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:16.359 coming to watch these games. If that's the case that 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.320 we know fan travel is what causes the emissions, what 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.400 can we really do about it, because that is aviation 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.439 fans would like to see the sport. How is it 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.359 that the system can help address this portion of emissions. 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:35.280 Yeah, great question, and I would have to lump together 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:40.960 fan travel and team and personnel travel as well. Because 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:45.720 of the platform that we discussed that sport has, the 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:50.520 teams and the executives are not exempt from traveling. The 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:55.840 responsibility cannot be put entirely on the fans. Playing sport 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.480 and enjoying sport is a part of being human, and 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:05.320 those who are least responsible for the level of crisis 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.840 shouldn't bear the entirety of the guilt and the shame 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:09.480 around it. 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:09.760 It is. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.199 You know, fans are operating in the system that was 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:16.120 provided to them, and those are choices that happen at 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:21.040 the institutional level. The announcement of a three country, singular 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:26.720 continent tournament received an intense amount of pushback. The schedule 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.560 received an intense amount of pushback, the number of teams, 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.800 the fossil fuel sponsors. All of these things receive pushback, 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.760 but the decision goes ahead. Does that mean then that 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.399 fans are not allowed to enjoy sport, or that we 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:45.359 should all boycott the largest display of one of the 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:49.040 most popular sports on Earth because of it, or should 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:54.760 people still be conscious, concerned and cognizant while also cheering 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.199 on their country. So there's no hard and fast answer 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.760 to that, but the responsibility comes down to those who 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.320 make the decision on what this tournament should look like. 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:09.119 FIFA has adapted in the past. Look at Men's twenty 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.679 twenty two in a totally different time of year. Lots 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:16.680 of changes were made to have the cutter tournament. 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.480 Yeah, I mean the cutter Tournament would be the second 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:24.600 highest carbon emitter after this World Cup, not because there 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:26.760 was that much fan travel because it all happened in 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:31.000 one country in close proximity, but because of the construction 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:36.159 cost of building these mega stadiums to accommodate so many people. 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:41.280 You have written that some of these mega events, because 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:47.119 they move from location to location at every iteration, introduces 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:51.840 all sorts of problems construction costs, fan travel, but there's 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.959 also environmental conditions that change that organizers have to adapt to. 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.280 Should we just agree on one permanent location for or 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:04.399 many of these sporting events and just make that be 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.360 the case in the future. Would that even be feasible? 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:12.919 One location is pretty tough, but a rotation of a 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:19.119 select few might be the best next step. And to 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:23.000 your point, the research really is about disrupting the status quo. 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.200 It doesn't have to be bigger than the last time. 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:29.040 It doesn't have to have more teams than the last time, 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.200 or seat more fans than the last time. It doesn't 0:23:32.200 --> 0:23:35.520 have to be every four years either. We could go 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:40.280 six years and that might not be the most outrageous 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:45.440 thing if it means we're protecting the planet, we're protecting people, 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:49.960 we're letting our earth breathe a little bit. Before asking 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:53.679 of all of these demands to host something so large 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.240 a singular site might actually do more harm than good 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:06.200 for that specific location. Now is a concentrate of emissions, construction, degradation, depletion, deforestation, 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:11.400 and then historically the economic benefits that are oftentimes associated 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:17.359 with sport aren't necessarily accurate to what is experienced and 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:22.720 lived through by local communities, and so that actually might 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:27.640 be pretty harmful. But a little bit of rest and 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:33.200 something similar to what the International Olympic Committee has been 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:40.000 doing is awarding these bids to locations that have existing infrastructure. 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.000 So to your point, right, like the Cutter tournament, a 0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:46.439 lot of that was from brand new construction, and so 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:50.480 that's something that's not happening in the US. But emissions 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:54.919 are still extremely high. But with the Olympic and Paralympic 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:59.160 Games in Paris and then Los Angeles, the infrastructure is there, 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:02.600 from the airport to the transit to the facilities and hotels. 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.480 That certainly does help, But that doesn't mean the Olympics 0:25:06.520 --> 0:25:10.439 needs to be in Los Angeles every four years or 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:11.960 every however often. 0:25:12.560 --> 0:25:15.720 You know, you brought up sportswashing a lot of the 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:19.000 mega tournaments and it's not just this football World Cup, 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:22.120 but you can take to the France, you can take 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:26.080 the Cricket World Cup. Almost all of these events have 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.280 large fossil fuel sponsorship, and of course the advertising and 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:34.760 sponsorship money helps these teams and perhaps some of them 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:38.520 will not be able to compete without it. But how 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:42.200 should people and teams be thinking about the money that's 0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:45.600 coming from fossil fuel companies into these sporting events. 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:50.600 That is a seven layer question, I think, because of 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:58.960 how connected all of these institutions and industries are. It's 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:06.800 very difficult to separate fossil fuel companies from financial institutions, 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:12.200 from media rights holders, and sport at such a high 0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:16.480 level sits in some tumbleweed of all of. 0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:18.120 Those those industries. 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:21.960 It's a lot of the same people running the same 0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:25.239 companies that have been in relationship with each other for 0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:28.760 a very very long time. A great example, I think 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:33.480 are the beverage companies that we see as some of 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:36.960 the title sponsors at some of the world's largest sporting events. 0:26:37.680 --> 0:26:40.639 But those beverage companies are in the business of selling 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:45.040