WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Streisand Effect

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>there's Babs. This is short stuff. Let's go Babs. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about this at some point, the Streisand effect,

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<v Speaker 1>wherein when you try to cover something up online, all

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<v Speaker 1>you do is draw more attention to it. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>it blows up in your face a ka, backfires Barbara. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean Barbara Streisand isn't the first person to

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<v Speaker 1>have something blow up in her face or backfire when

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<v Speaker 1>she tried to censor anything, and yet she got saddled

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<v Speaker 1>with this term. I think it's just a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of internet justice. Maybe, um, but at the very least,

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<v Speaker 1>we should probably give a little background on what Barbara

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<v Speaker 1>did to try to censor something in the first place

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<v Speaker 1>on the internet that drew the ire that ended up

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<v Speaker 1>getting her saddled with this. Wait a minute, that was

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<v Speaker 1>way too long for a short stuff, Chuck, let's edit

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<v Speaker 1>this out and start over. So in two thousand three,

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<v Speaker 1>Babs sued a photographer his name is Kenneth Adelman, because

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<v Speaker 1>she said, I want you to delete this photo that

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<v Speaker 1>you took from the sky that has my Malibu estate

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<v Speaker 1>in it. She said, will you delete and he said, uh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, I was I'm not paparazzo. I was

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<v Speaker 1>doing an online project trekking erosion on the coastline. Your

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<v Speaker 1>house happened to be in it, and it's a big

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<v Speaker 1>environmental issue. And she said, well, I don't care. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna sue you for fifty million dollars. Fifty million dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>This guy is not you know, it's not Sheldon Addleson.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Kenneth Addleman. He doesn't have fifty million dollars. And

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<v Speaker 1>she wasn't laying out in the nude. It was just

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<v Speaker 1>her house, right, And again it was part of this

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<v Speaker 1>erosion project. So um, when it got out pretty quickly

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<v Speaker 1>that Barbara Streisan was suing some some guy for fifty

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<v Speaker 1>million dollar dollers, it got picked up by the news

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of attention was drawn to this previously

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<v Speaker 1>fully overlooked thing, which was the photo of her house

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<v Speaker 1>on the Malibu Coastline. I believe it had been downloaded

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<v Speaker 1>six times in the entire history of that photographs existence, um,

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<v Speaker 1>and two of those times were by her lawyer. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think the number jumped up quite a bit after

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<v Speaker 1>word got out about the lawsuit. Is that not correct, Chuck, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the streisand effect happened and it was downloaded close to

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<v Speaker 1>a half a million, half a million times. And the

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<v Speaker 1>next month after this lawsuit came out, and it prompted

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<v Speaker 1>a blogger from dirt Tech name Michael Masnick to what

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<v Speaker 1>I say, dirt tech, dirt Tech, that's the hillbilly version.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh he he labeled the strice End effect, and it

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<v Speaker 1>kind of took hold. Yeah, it did, um because it's

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<v Speaker 1>catchy and everybody likes Barbra Streisen, but there's also something

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<v Speaker 1>about her that everybody doesn't like to you know, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>Emily loves her. There's nothing she doesn't like really since

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<v Speaker 1>a little like then No, No, she's a big fan

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<v Speaker 1>of Babs that that Christmas record plays on repeat. Have

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<v Speaker 1>you ever heard well that I'm sure that the answer

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<v Speaker 1>to this is yes. Have you ever heard, um that

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<v Speaker 1>her duets with Barry Gibb Oh? Sure those are great? Okay, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they're about as good as a duet gets. And Barbara

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<v Speaker 1>Strasend's great on her own. But I just think personally,

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<v Speaker 1>I get the impression that she's always been the kind

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<v Speaker 1>who would suit just an average person. For fifty million dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean. You've never heard her take

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<v Speaker 1>on jingle bells. I don't think so, which is bizarre

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<v Speaker 1>because I've been on this planet for forty three years,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought I've heard every Christmas song ever created

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<v Speaker 1>around the world fifty million times. Oh, you would know it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's uh, she she changes it up a lot. I

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<v Speaker 1>gotta hear this. It's jingle bell, jingle bell, jingle bell,

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<v Speaker 1>jingle love the way. Hey what yes, Chuck, you just

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<v Speaker 1>literally changed my life. Yeah, just go listen to it

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<v Speaker 1>after this. You'll get a kick out of it, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely will you. You're probably gonna want to throw

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<v Speaker 1>your sound system out the window. Or you might think

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<v Speaker 1>it's the best thing ever. It's it's one of the two. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe I'll just keep vascillating back and forth. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>So Strice in effect happens, she gets labeled, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>gets named after her. And they've actually been studies on

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of thing since then. There was one in

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<v Speaker 1>China in two thousand eighteen that found out that their

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<v Speaker 1>attempts as a country to block access to Facebook and

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<v Speaker 1>Twitter and other social media sites um that people may

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<v Speaker 1>not have been interested in have they not tried to

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<v Speaker 1>block it? Prompted millions of people UH to download VP

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<v Speaker 1>and software just so they could get access to these sites.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's the whole idea of the forbidden fruit. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like that that UM Chief Wigham telling Ralph to stay

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<v Speaker 1>out of his forbidden closet of mystery. It's like, why

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<v Speaker 1>are you so fascinated with whatever is in my forbidden

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<v Speaker 1>closet of mystery? That's definitely part of it. It's like,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're saying no, you're not allowed to see this,

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<v Speaker 1>you're basically saying, do everything you can to see what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to keep you from seeing. UM. And just

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<v Speaker 1>like how how Streisand's UM house photo that only be

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<v Speaker 1>downloaded six times prior to the lawsuit and then went

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<v Speaker 1>up to four thousand times right after. UM. That's just

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<v Speaker 1>it's just part and parcel with it. If you leave

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<v Speaker 1>it alone. I don't know about China and news of

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<v Speaker 1>democracies and what democracies are doing, that might be an exception,

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<v Speaker 1>but typically if you leave whatever you're trying to censor alone,

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<v Speaker 1>apparently that will that will attract less attention to it

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<v Speaker 1>than than saying like, you're not allowed to hear this.

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<v Speaker 1>This is censored. Yeah, I mean, it's also the conundrum

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<v Speaker 1>that every parent faces every day that their kid grows up.

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<v Speaker 1>Is like everything from curse words like not making a

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<v Speaker 1>big deal about it, to whatever they're watching and stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like that. It's just you know, it's like, well maybe

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<v Speaker 1>if we don't make a big deal out of it,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not going to be a big deal. Yes, there

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<v Speaker 1>is a giant bird and he's yellow and he loves you,

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<v Speaker 1>but you cannot see him. You're not allowed to watch that.

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<v Speaker 1>All right. We're gonna take a break and come back

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<v Speaker 1>and talk about a few other versions of the Strisand

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<v Speaker 1>effect over the years right after this. So I just

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<v Speaker 1>want to point out if you're not gonna laugh at

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<v Speaker 1>my jokes today, I'll laugh at my own jokes. I'll

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<v Speaker 1>be over. Yeah, the big bird joke was a good one,

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<v Speaker 1>all right. So, um, there's a pair of researchers Sue

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<v Speaker 1>Curry Jensen and Brian Martin, and together they kind of

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<v Speaker 1>created this paper partially on the Streisand effect, and they

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<v Speaker 1>gave some other examples, like you know, in addition to

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<v Speaker 1>Barber Streisand and China um banning Twitter and Facebook Um,

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<v Speaker 1>some other other groups have have famously, you know, tried

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<v Speaker 1>to censor things and it's blown up in their face.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of them was I don't remember where we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about it before, but the Mick Libel case, we

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<v Speaker 1>definitely have mentioned it before. Yeah, this was McDonald's in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineties. They sued a couple of volunteers from London

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<v Speaker 1>green Peace because they had put out a pamphlet called

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<v Speaker 1>What's wrong with McDonald's and this, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a street pamphlet. It wasn't even online. I mean, may

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<v Speaker 1>have been at some point, but this is the nineties,

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<v Speaker 1>so you know how pamphlets, it's not like that goes wide. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>they were just pamphlets and they until they got sued

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<v Speaker 1>and the British press got ahold of it, called it,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, McLibel, and it became the longest running

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<v Speaker 1>civil trial in the history of Britain. And they lost

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<v Speaker 1>that one too, So it's they didn't get the message

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<v Speaker 1>or I guess when was Streisand's was that in the

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<v Speaker 1>eighties Streisan No Streisand's was two thousand three because it

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<v Speaker 1>was really internet project. Yeah, this proceeded Barbara Streisand so

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<v Speaker 1>she hadn't take a note from McDonald's maybe don't bring

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<v Speaker 1>the lawsuit, No, because I mean the fact that it

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<v Speaker 1>was the longest running civil trial. The press stays interested

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<v Speaker 1>in that kind of thing, so pretty frequently they would

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<v Speaker 1>interview the plaintiffs or the defendants in the case and

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<v Speaker 1>they would just give them this big microphone to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about all the horrible things McDonald's was doing. It was

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<v Speaker 1>a It was a bad move on McDonald's part, for sure. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>There was also one, as far as food goes, a

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<v Speaker 1>schoolgirl in Scotland named Martha Payne who was nine at

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<v Speaker 1>the time, back in two thousand twelve, and she sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like one of the cooler nine year olds I've ever

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<v Speaker 1>heard of. She had a food blog, but her food

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<v Speaker 1>blog was about how terrible the food was at her school,

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<v Speaker 1>in her cafeteria, and so she would take pictures of

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<v Speaker 1>her school lunch and posted a picture on her blog

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<v Speaker 1>and talk about the food and all that. And I

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<v Speaker 1>guess Jamie Oliver, who's a well known food guy and

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<v Speaker 1>food communicator, if there is such a thing. Sure, Um, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So Jamie Oliver tweeted about it and there was a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of traffic to her blog, and the local school

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<v Speaker 1>board said, oh, we we can't have this. She's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>make us look dumb, so let's just ban her from

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<v Speaker 1>taking photos in school of her food. Yeah, that didn't

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<v Speaker 1>work out. That blew up in their face as well,

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<v Speaker 1>because then what you end up being accused of is

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<v Speaker 1>like squashing the voice of a child. Um. Kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like what happened recently here in Georgia when that high

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<v Speaker 1>school girl took a picture of her crowded school without masks,

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<v Speaker 1>and they suspended her for like a day. And then

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<v Speaker 1>we're like, uh, never mind, you can. I guess we

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't try and squash health whistleblowers in high school their

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<v Speaker 1>Torrian sound. Yeah, so they let her back in school too,

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<v Speaker 1>They did. It was it was, it was rough, just

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<v Speaker 1>a very idea that they suspended her for. That is

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<v Speaker 1>really disappointing. What's even more disappointing, though, is that um

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<v Speaker 1>that the two researchers I mentioned early or um they

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<v Speaker 1>basically said, you know, there's some really great famous cases

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<v Speaker 1>about this streisand effect happening, but way more often than not,

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<v Speaker 1>the sensors who are working to censor things, um are

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<v Speaker 1>they do? They they censor and they like the streisand

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<v Speaker 1>effect doesn't happen. It's much more the exception than the rule.

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<v Speaker 1>And that even when UM there is a streisand effect

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<v Speaker 1>to it. There's kind of a playbook what they call

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<v Speaker 1>outrage management UM that's used to kind of keep the

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<v Speaker 1>public outcry against whatever was discovered or the censorship that

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<v Speaker 1>was discovered in in order in manageable, I guess, which

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<v Speaker 1>hence the name. Yeah, it's pretty scuzzy, uh to see

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<v Speaker 1>what they do, but it's sort of right out of

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<v Speaker 1>the playbook that you would expect. Oh, it all sounds

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds very familiar, doesn't it. Yeah, very Bynesian. And

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<v Speaker 1>plus it's just the kind of thing you see all

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<v Speaker 1>the time. You know, they trying to cover up or

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<v Speaker 1>they devalue the target, or they basically lie about it

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<v Speaker 1>and reinterpret it. UM. They Another one is use official

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<v Speaker 1>channels to give an appearance of justice, right and then

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<v Speaker 1>intimidate people. So they gave in this In this article,

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<v Speaker 1>Jansen and Martin gave an example of the Nazis and

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<v Speaker 1>their youthan Asia making air quotes everybody program of people

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<v Speaker 1>with disabilities, and that they used all five methods of

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<v Speaker 1>that UM. They hid the program from the public. That's

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<v Speaker 1>number one. Um, they stigmatized people with disabilities as a

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<v Speaker 1>burden for society. That's devaluing the target. They lied about

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<v Speaker 1>the events, so that's reinterpreting it. Anybody who had a question,

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<v Speaker 1>like a parent of the victim, that kind of thing,

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<v Speaker 1>they would just out and out say, oh, no, they

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<v Speaker 1>died of you know this other this other disease or

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<v Speaker 1>from natural causes or something. They also intimidated parents who

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<v Speaker 1>would not back down into saying, hey, you want to

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<v Speaker 1>lose the rest of your kids, no, well, then be quiet.

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<v Speaker 1>And then they also allowed for formal complaints to be levied. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>But of course they never went anywhere, so it gave

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<v Speaker 1>the appearance of using official channels for justice. So leave

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<v Speaker 1>it to the Nazis to check off all five of

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<v Speaker 1>those scuzzie boxes. Stupid Nazis. Yeah. I think one of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite cases was when Al Franken, previous to being

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<v Speaker 1>a senator, wrote that book Lies and the lying liars

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<v Speaker 1>who tell them colon a fair and balanced to look

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<v Speaker 1>at the right and and Fox News took him to

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<v Speaker 1>court and says, wait a minute, that's our term fair

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<v Speaker 1>and balance. That's intellectual property and the judge said, no,

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<v Speaker 1>those are just two words that are pretty commonly used. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't own them. And Al Franken, I imagine as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as he heard that Fox News was suing him,

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.199
<v Speaker 1>was like hit the roof and was like sweet because

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<v Speaker 1>all that did was bring just tons and tons of

0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.079
<v Speaker 1>pressed to his new book it was being launched. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I guess it shot right onto the best seller

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:08.040
<v Speaker 1>list right after that too. So maybe Fox News will

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<v Speaker 1>come and sue us because of our book. Maybe we

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.400
<v Speaker 1>should change the title the Stuff you should Know an

0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:19.719
<v Speaker 1>incomplete compendium of mostly interesting, fair and balanced things. Can

0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.640
<v Speaker 1>you believe this title? And then maybe we could get

0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.600
<v Speaker 1>taken the court and get a lot of publicity out

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.040
<v Speaker 1>of it. That'd be wonderful, or chuck, if everybody just

0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 1>went and bought our book, which you can pre order

0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.160
<v Speaker 1>now anywhere books are available, Um, that would have the

0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.600
<v Speaker 1>same effect without us having to go through the problem

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 1>being sued. That'd be great too, or having to go

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 1>back and retitle the things you got anything else? I

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:46.040
<v Speaker 1>don't have anything else. Beautiful segue by the way, nice plug. Uh,

0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.160
<v Speaker 1>And since we don't have anything else and we're down

0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 1>to plugs, short stuff is app. Stuff you should know

0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.319
<v Speaker 1>is production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works for more

0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 1>podcasts for my heart Radio? Is it the iHeart Radio app?

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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<v Speaker 1>H