WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Herb Alpert 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.080 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.880 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.719 This is Sugar Steve and On this week's Quest Love 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.759 Supreme classic jazz musicians. Songwriter and co founder of A 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:19.880 and M Records, Herb Alpert talks about the art of 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.799 the trumpet, writing hits with Sam Cook, the secret to 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.480 out selling the Beatles, and how he really feels about 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:32.520 getting sampled by Biggie. Originally released October fourth, two thy 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:33.400 and seventeen. 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.480 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome, Welcome to a very special one 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.199 on one edition of Quest Love Supreme. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:44.560 Well so one on one. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:50.479 Well you're here too, Sugar Steve's always you know, one 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.519 of the one of the great things about one of 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.320 my many jobs that I have is the interaction I 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:02.720 get to have with an endless parade of musicians and 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:07.559 artists that come to the tonight show so kind of 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.839 off the cuff and spur of the moment I thought 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:15.000 it would, I'd be remiss. 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:16.240 If I behoove you like behoove. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.479 No, That's why I said remiss instead of behoove. Well, 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:24.800 I changing my style, Steve, that you know, if I 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:29.840 didn't have an in depth conversation. Uh with I meant 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.040 to say, renaissance man is almost cliche at this point. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.840 I guess if you like do three things well or 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.560 four things, well, you're a renaissance man. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.440 But hey, I can chew gum too. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.039 Okay, now, now he's a renaissance man. Tell me the 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.920 world's greatest gum cheer of all time. Please welcome to 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:54.919 a very questlove supreme special. Uh mister Herb Albert. 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.600 Well, thank you very much. Hey, well, what a round up? 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:02.960 Applause? Thank you? How are you today? 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:04.040 I'm feeling good. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:04.480 You're good? 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:04.760 Yeah? 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.880 Good. I guess as of this recording, you're in New 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:10.480 York doing a residency yet, right, Yeah. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.519 We play at the Cafe Carlisle. There's our fifth time there. Okay, 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:16.320 I enjoy it. It's fun. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:16.520 You know. 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.560 This is a small little group of people. I think 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.400 the room holds about ninety people, and it's really up 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.360 close and personal. In the sixties, I used to play 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.480 for the Height of the Tijuana Brass. We were playing 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.880 for like twenty thousand people at the Big Arenas. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.520 I was going to say, what do you prefer, like 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:34.520 the intimate setting or like the. 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.680 Actually I prefer a room that has a good sound 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.400 with an intimate setting, you know, that's the best. In 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.280 the old days, it was like you never really got 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:45.600 a feeling of the audience. They were just way out 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.680 there someplace. And that was the days, you know, when 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.680 people smoke, so you could see people light up cigarettes, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.480 and for the most part, you don't see that anymore. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.480 But I like the intimate setting. It's more fun. 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:00.120 Oh cool, cool. So I had to say, we have 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.520 to discover your music. When I was a child, I 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.200 had a father had a very extensive record collection. I'm 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.040 sure that I'm not alone in which I thought you 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.000 were naturally of Mexican descent. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:15.600 Episo did I for while? 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:17.040 No. 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.120 I used to go to bullfights in Tijuana in the 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.920 springtime for about three years I did before I just 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.400 decided I don't like bullfighting anymore. But you know, that 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.320 was an experience for me. And I never heard mariachi music. 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.840 But I heard this brass band in the stands that 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.560 kind of knocked me out because they would like introduce 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.920 all the events of a bullfight, you know, like before 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:44.800 the bull would come out, they'd come up with but 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.600 bang the bull shows up, you know, and then another 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.840 fanfare for the matador and the picadors in them, So 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:54.640 it was kind of exciting, you know. And I tried 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.360 to translate that feeling into a song, and I had 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.560 a good melody from a end of mine, and that 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.080 became The Lonely Bull and that record we released. That 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.400 was the first record released on A and M nineteen 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.640 sixty two, and it took off like a rocket ship. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:13.360 So it was a good feeling. 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:19.240 So can I assume that before nineteen sixty two in 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:24.320 American culture sort of the the mariachi sound or even 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:31.520 the sound of Mexican music wasn't fully developed yet as 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:33.720 far as I mean, how popular was it at the time, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.600 Like was it introduced to you because you specifically went 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:37.680 to these bullfights? 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.560 I'm not sure, you know, it kind of just morphed 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.600 into me. I was, you know, I like cal Jader 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:52.840 and Predesprato, Macheto and those type of Latin groups. I 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.280 remember seeing one time Macheto here in New York and 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.320 it was a real eye opener for me because I 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.080 got there early. The band was on the stand, Machito 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.920 didn't arrive yet, and the band was very loosey goosey. 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.120 They were playing some stuff that was really kind of 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:14.760 straggling along, you know, everyone kind of not in the 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.080 groove of things. Then Machito came out with the cow 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.760 bellum and bing bang bing bang bang, and all of 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:20.400 a sudden. 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.240 Everybody everybody alive. 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.279 Yeah, everybody came alive at the right time. It was beautiful. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:30.279 So I mean that I've had several experiences where it 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.600 really hit me that is not what you do. It's 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.760 the way how you do it, and that's the way 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:36.960 I've been been operating. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.760 True, I can agree with you. 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:43.920 I do agree with that's the way how you do it. 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:50.240 Well, it's as far as your your your your musical development, 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.279 your your childhood. What was how were you when you 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:54.400 first picked up a trumpet? 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.640 Well, I had this great experience in my grammar school 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.760 and there was a music appreciation class. I don't know 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.159 if they call it a music appreciation class, but it 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:08.320 was a class talking about music, and there was a 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.159 table filled with various instruments. I happened to pick up 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.400 the trumpet because I liked the feeling of it. I 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.480 was very small and the trumpets seemed to fit my 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.560 hand and I tried to make a sound out of it, 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.680 which I couldn't do. I was just blowing hot air 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.360 into it and that didn't work. But when I finally 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.799 you know, made sound out of the instrument and started 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.080 working on it, I realized that it was talking for 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.039 me because I was very shy as a kid. I'm 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:37.920 basically an introvert, but. 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:39.920 More so than all musicians. 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.800 Well, you know, it's yeah, I guess one of those things. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.159 I've met a lot of great musicians in my days now, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.880 but yeah, I was so anyways, the trumpet was talking 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:52.600 for me. It was it was saying things that I 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.479 couldn't get out of my mouth. So it was been 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.520 a great friend for me through the years, and I've 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:04.480 learned a lot from it. We've had our ups and downs, 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:10.480 like all musicians do. Jumping forward, Dizzy Gillespie was a 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.200 friend of mine, and Dizzy used to say, you know, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:18.240 the closer I get, the farther it looks okay. 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.840 Well, how first of all, what type of what trumpet 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:24.400 do you play? 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:24.920 Like? 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.640 I know there are different types of saxophones, altos and sprint, 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:28.960 but yeah, it's. 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.160 A regular B flat trumpet. You know. I've had different 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.560 models through the years, and I played all the Tijuana 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:40.560 brass records on a Chicago Benz trumpet. But it's not 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.440 the trumpet. You know. I ran into a huge problem 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.480 playing the instrument around nineteen seventy, going through a divorce, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.800 and I don't know, my body wasn't feeling good and 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.440 I was not mentally in good shape, and I had 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.200 a real problem was it was a struggle to play 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.680 the instrument. I was stuttering through the horn. I was like, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.680 couldn't get the note out in time, really right. So 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.520 I took some time off, and then I started studying 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.200 with a teacher here in New York, Carmine Caruso, and 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:17.640 he was known as the troubleshooter. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:18.000 You know. 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.960 He could teach brass instrument, he could teach any instrument. 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.800 Never played the trumpet, but he taught the trumpet. He 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.080 taught trumpet players from all over the country and all 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.320 over the world. And he used to tell me, man, 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.000 it's not the trumpet. The trumpet is just a piece 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:33.800 of plumbing. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:36.040 So you're essentially playing. 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.360 Yeah, that was his description of the instruments. A piece 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.920 of plumbing. Man, you're the instrument. Doesn't matter what kind 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.560 of mouthpiece of user, kind of trumpet you're playing. You know, 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.920 the sound is inside you, and that's, you know, the 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.520 sound I've always tried to make, you know. I went 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.559 through a period of thinking, well, man, do I can 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.120 I play like Clifford Brown? Heck no, you know that 0:08:56.120 --> 0:09:02.240 guy was a genius beyond you know, and then Miles 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.520 and Louis Armstrong and all those great players. I was thinking, well, 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.440 I was trying to imitate them for a while, and 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.600 then I realized, who wants to hear that? They've already 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.760 done it? So I was looking for my own voice. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.720 Well, I think you found it because I'll probably say 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:28.240 that next to Miles Davis, I could probably tell Dizzy 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:33.040 Gillespie's tone and about if you give me about twenty seconds, 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:39.640 I know, and maybe a touro, like there's certain Freddie trumpet. Yeah, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.880 there's certain trumpet players in which you could tell instantly. 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.800 But with you, you have such a distinctive tone and 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:52.560 voice with your playing that even yesterday, of course, like 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.599 we all get very nervous when our heroes come to 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.520 play with us, and you know, the rule number one 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.560 is like try not to freak out in front of you. 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.960 So the quieter the quieter the roots are when rehearsing 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.600 like you best believe we're on our cell phone. 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.600 Like I enjoyed playing with you guys. But I had 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.640 the supreme compliment from Miles. Miles said, you hear three 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.760 notes and you know it's so it's I mean, well, I. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.520 Want to know how how much practice did it take 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:28.360 as far as your craft is concerned before you knew? Okay, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.560 this is my lane and stay in it. And I 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.880 know that you know, were you ever tempted? Like for 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:38.400 me as a drummer, I guess I've made my mark 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.400 playing flat footed When I was young. Bernar Party once 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.480 told me. He says, dude, I keep food on the 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.800 table with the two in the four. You want to 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:50.560 keep food on the table or you want to like 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.480 do you look mino? You know, because drummers are or 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.440 musicians always want to flex and let other musicians know 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.360 I got more technique than you and that sort of sure. 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:05.320 But I followed this advice and he's like, yo, just 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.400 if you just do the two and a four that 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.559 that will last forever like a good tuxedo. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.800 Well, yeah, that's true to it. Agree, But I mean, 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.680 you have to be authentic, you know, you have to 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.800 be real. I don't think you can fake fake that 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.320 you have to do something that's you're passionate about. And 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.080 if it's two and four you're passionate about, great, go ahead. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.800 But during the time period in which, like you know, 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.800 Miles is pushing the boundaries with you know, in a 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.280 silent way and bitches brew and all this stuff, are 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.760 you thinking like, damn, like I got to catch up 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.840 or you know, or for you it's just like. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.600 No, I wasn't thinking about that. I wasn't really thinking 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.800 about making hit records. I mean, that's jumping forward. But 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:51.679 you know, I was drafted in the Army out of UH. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.760 I went to University of Southern California for about a 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.200 year and I really didn't take to college. I just 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.079 didn't have that feel yet. But after the Army and 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.640 they sent me to Well, first off, I told them 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:04.760 that the only thing I know how to do is 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:09.920 play the trumpet, you know, I said, And I lied 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.400 a bit. I played with Dizzy, and I played with 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.400 you know, Count Basie, and I gave him the whole 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.240 story of anyways, I was a trumpet player and that 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.600 was my m O. So they sent me to band 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:24.720 school in Fort Knox, Kentucky, and there were like about 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.120 ten trumpet players there, and these guys were all better 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.200 than me, and you know, and I was coming from 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.360 a situation where I was the number one trumpet player 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.640 at my school and all these gigs in Los Angeles, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.079 and I realized that these guys could play higher, faster, louder, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.640 read better, and the jazz was for the most part, 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:47.640 I mean not all of them, but most of them, 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.240 you know, were just pretty darn good. And I thought, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.600 if I'm ever going to make it as a professional musician, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.520 I have to come up with my own style, my 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:03.960 own voice. And that's what I start started pursuing. I 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:10.080 heard this record by the guitar player, how High the 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:15.679 Moon Les Paula and so Less was layering his his 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:22.080 guitar on this on these tracks, and I tried doing 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.600 that at home. I had two tape machines. But believe 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:27.880 it or not, I'm saying two tape machines. You know. 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.120 When I started, are you sitting? I said, I had 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.040 a webcre wire recorder. 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.560 It was a wire recorder, wire recorder, this pre tape. 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.920 Yeah, it was pre tape. And it was like, you know, 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:43.720 if you wanted to make an edit, you needed a 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:48.960 soldering iron anyway, So I got the tape machines. I 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.920 got the Ampex Mono machine, and I had two of those, 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.160 and I used to go from one machine to the other, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.120 layering the trumpet, and all of a sudden, ah, that's 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.560 a nice sound. Was the Tijuanna, the genesis of the 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:08.760 Tijuana brass sound and the stacking the horns, And when 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.120 I hit on it, it felt like right. And then 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:16.280 you know, came The Lonely Bull and this record, uh, 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.360 you know, it was a big hit record. And I 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:23.880 got this letter from a lady in Germany. I chuckled 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.240 when I first read it, but she said, dear mister Aubert, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:31.520 thank you for sending me on this vicarious trip to Tijuana, 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.480 you know, which made me think, Wow, that music was 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.280 so visual for her, it transported her. And I said, well, 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.840 that's the music that I really like to make. Make 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.720 music that takes you someplace, you know, post a elevator music, 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.680 which is it's music. It's not bad, not good, it's 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.160 just there. You know. You don't go out the elevator 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:53.120 whistling anything. 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.120 But it wasn't invented at the time. What's that It 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.440 wasn't invented at the time. So you know, I don't 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.320 consider elevated music to be like a four letter word. 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:06.120 No, no, no, it's cool. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.520 But I think it's ubiquitous, like okay, like it's beyond 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.960 your home stereo, beyond your headphones, beyond your car, which 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.760 is like the three places that people mostly listen to music. 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.960 You know, when your music is in supermarkets and in 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.400 dentist office and that sort of thing, then it's like 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:23.440 it's it's in another dimension. 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.640 So right, So anyways, that letter kind of stuck home. 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.520 And of course, you know, we haven't talked about it, 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.680 but I learned a heck of a lot from Sam Cook. 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.480 You know, I worked with Sam. We wrote a song together, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.920 Sam and I and lou Adler. We wrote don't know 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:47.040 much about history, don't know my trigger. We wrote that 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.320 song and Sam was. 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.440 A wait, you're singing you wonderful world, wonderful world. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.800 Yeah, but Sam and Louis I did not know this, well. 0:15:58.160 --> 0:15:58.920 Yeah, I didn't know. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.400 He was the les Paul the trumpet, like the first 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.040 one to over it. So you're saying you were the 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.200 first or one of the first to layer trumpet. 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.240 I don't know if I was the first, but that 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.520 was the sound, you know, that was the start of 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.400 the Tea Wanna brass sound. But I learned a lot 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:18.000 from Sam. Sam had a really unique style. He came 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.440 out of the gospel field. He was with the Solsterers, 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:25.200 as you know, and Lou Adler and I were partners. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.560 And it was right after we were hired by Keen 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:32.880 Records as staff writers, and it was right after Sam 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.400 had that big record of You Send Me and we 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.880 became friends with Sam, who was an extraordinary guy. I mean, 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:45.440 he just had he oozed talent. He used to walk 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:50.360 around with a notebook filled with lyrics. One day he 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.320 came up to me and said, Herbie, what do you 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.600 think of this lyric? And he opened his notebook and 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.840 I was looking at it, thinking myself, just to myself, Man, 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:04.240 this is corny. This is really corny. You know, I said, 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.359 how's the song? What does it sound like? He picked 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.119 up his guitar and started singing this song, and I 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:15.840 was thinking, Holy moly, man, he turned this corny lyric 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.600 into something magical because of his authenticity, his intent, his 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.320 passion where he put the notes, how we put the 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:25.959 melody together with the notes, and you know, the rhythm, 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:29.679 the feel, and that was just a real big aha 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.439 for me. That was the you know, it ain't what 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:35.119 you do, it's the way how you do it feeling moment. 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.960 There's also like a simplicity to Sam Cook's lyrics and 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.560 his singing style. So did you pick is that part 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.040 of what you picked up from him? Sort of that 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:46.879 keep it simple? 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:47.399 No? 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.199 I don't think he thought about keeping it simple. I 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:52.560 think he thought about being authentic. I mean he was 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:54.800 doing the follow up to You Send Me, and he 0:17:54.920 --> 0:18:00.359 was singing I Love you for sentimental reasons. And the 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:06.200 owner of the company kind of dabbled as a piano player, 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:11.359 but not professionally, And we were in the recording booth 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.520 listening to the playback of one of the takes, and 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:17.879 the owner goes up to Sam and says, Sam, you 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:22.280 know here in bar twelve and bar eighteen and bar 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:24.240 forty four you can put in a who wo. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:27.720 Yeah, that's what that live or something. 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.000 Yeah, I mean that's the one that was the kind 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.800 of the hook of the you Send mething, right, And 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.680 Sam looked at him and said Jack, And his name wasn't. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:37.400 Jack, right? 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.480 He says, you can't just put. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:39.959 In a who wo. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.000 Whenever you want, man, you gotta feel it. Yeah, And 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.040 that was Sam. You know, he was. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:47.520 Feeling emotion. 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.879 He was totally into it, you know he was. I 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:52.080 loved him. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:53.080 That's amazing. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.600 So is that what you ended up looking for to 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.800 skip forward in Ben's and artists that you were signing? 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.720 Is that specific thing that you're talking about right now? 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:07.560 Well, you know I learned from him that. I'll give 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.080 you another example of him. He was he started, you know, 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.800 he was the first artist to have his own record 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:20.080 label called SAR remember that. And he was auditioning this 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:27.760 artist from the Caribbean, beautiful looking guy green Eyes, came 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.960 in with a little stool to put his foot on 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.399 hi as he was plucking his guitar, and I was 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.480 looking at him while he was singing, thinking that, man, 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.240 this guy is great. This guy really has something magical. 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.159 And Sam looked at me. He said, and I was 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:43.720 in the control room and this guy was out in 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.600 the studio and he came in. He said, what do 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.040 you think of this guy? I said, well, I think 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.080 he's pretty good. You think I should sign him? I said, 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.960 I think so. He says, we'll do me a favorite. 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.000 Turn your back on him and listen to him for 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:59.199 five minutes. So I turned the chair around and all 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.720 of a sudden, I didn't receive anything. The guy wasn't 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.320 talking to me. And so at that moment I realized 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.919 that there's there's something to learn. And Sam, you know, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.080 didn't sign the guy, and he told me that, you know, 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:18.040 it's not about how you can razzle dazzle somebody with 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.240 your looks or with your movement. You know, it's just 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:25.520 it's it's does he does it touch you? Or does 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:26.520 it not touch you? 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.320 You know, if only Sam knew sixty years of now. 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:35.760 Well you know, yeah, well you're absolutely right, but man, 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:43.120 it changed with you know, computers and video and yeah, 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.159 the music videos and yeah, if you can razzle dazzle 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.200 somebody as a dancer and as a as a. 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:55.199 Well now it's like singing and talent. Really, I'm not 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.080 even being sarcastic or bitter sounding like I think it's 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:02.119 maybe even fifteen percent of the factor and it's more 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:03.320 about your personality. 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:04.080 Yeah. 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.920 Well, there's an artist out now that currently has the 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:14.080 number one song and their whole appeal basically rides on 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:20.520 them going on Instagram live like they're so charismatic as 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.640 a person that it makes you cheer for them and 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.600 they have like serious marginal talent. But even I find 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:32.080 myself cheering for marginal talent now in twenty seventeen, which is. 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.040 Yeah, well, yeah, I agree with you. There's a different 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:37.320 That was a different time though, when I'm talking about it. 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:39.920 And then Sam taught me how to close my eyes 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.240 and listen to the artists. And that's what I did 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:44.760 with A and M. When you asked me, you know 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.640 about auditioning certain artists, I would always go in there 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:53.440 with my eyes closed and hear the music and make 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.800 a judgment on that. I mean, there was an artist 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:58.199 I don't want to mention her name, but she called me. 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.240 She was an an M artist and she says she 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.880 had this single that was a smash man. You can't 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.359 miss with this thing. This was beautiful and she was 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.400 in the studio and she begged me to come by 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.320 and listen to it. So I did. Walked in the studio, 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:16.119 closed my eyes, sat down on the couch. I said, okay, 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:20.960