1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,080
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

2
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,880
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

3
00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,719
Speaker 2: This is Sugar Steve and On this week's Quest Love

4
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,759
Speaker 2: Supreme classic jazz musicians. Songwriter and co founder of A

5
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 2: and M Records, Herb Alpert talks about the art of

6
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,799
Speaker 2: the trumpet, writing hits with Sam Cook, the secret to

7
00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,480
Speaker 2: out selling the Beatles, and how he really feels about

8
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:32,520
Speaker 2: getting sampled by Biggie. Originally released October fourth, two thy

9
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:33,400
Speaker 2: and seventeen.

10
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,480
Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome, Welcome to a very special one

11
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,199
Speaker 1: on one edition of Quest Love Supreme.

12
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:44,560
Speaker 3: Well so one on one.

13
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 1: Well you're here too, Sugar Steve's always you know, one

14
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,519
Speaker 1: of the one of the great things about one of

15
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 1: my many jobs that I have is the interaction I

16
00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:02,720
Speaker 1: get to have with an endless parade of musicians and

17
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,559
Speaker 1: artists that come to the tonight show so kind of

18
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,839
Speaker 1: off the cuff and spur of the moment I thought

19
00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: it would, I'd be remiss.

20
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 3: If I behoove you like behoove.

21
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,479
Speaker 1: No, That's why I said remiss instead of behoove. Well,

22
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 1: I changing my style, Steve, that you know, if I

23
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 1: didn't have an in depth conversation. Uh with I meant

24
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,040
Speaker 1: to say, renaissance man is almost cliche at this point.

25
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 1: I guess if you like do three things well or

26
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 1: four things, well, you're a renaissance man.

27
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,440
Speaker 4: But hey, I can chew gum too.

28
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:45,039
Speaker 1: Okay, now, now he's a renaissance man. Tell me the

29
00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,920
Speaker 1: world's greatest gum cheer of all time. Please welcome to

30
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:54,919
Speaker 1: a very questlove supreme special. Uh mister Herb Albert.

31
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,600
Speaker 4: Well, thank you very much. Hey, well, what a round up?

32
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,960
Speaker 1: Applause? Thank you? How are you today?

33
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 4: I'm feeling good.

34
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 1: You're good?

35
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:04,760
Speaker 4: Yeah?

36
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 1: Good. I guess as of this recording, you're in New

37
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 1: York doing a residency yet, right, Yeah.

38
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,519
Speaker 4: We play at the Cafe Carlisle. There's our fifth time there. Okay,

39
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 4: I enjoy it. It's fun.

40
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 1: You know.

41
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 4: This is a small little group of people. I think

42
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 4: the room holds about ninety people, and it's really up

43
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 4: close and personal. In the sixties, I used to play

44
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 4: for the Height of the Tijuana Brass. We were playing

45
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,880
Speaker 4: for like twenty thousand people at the Big Arenas.

46
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,520
Speaker 1: I was going to say, what do you prefer, like

47
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 1: the intimate setting or like the.

48
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 4: Actually I prefer a room that has a good sound

49
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,400
Speaker 4: with an intimate setting, you know, that's the best. In

50
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 4: the old days, it was like you never really got

51
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,600
Speaker 4: a feeling of the audience. They were just way out

52
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 4: there someplace. And that was the days, you know, when

53
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,680
Speaker 4: people smoke, so you could see people light up cigarettes,

54
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 4: and for the most part, you don't see that anymore.

55
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 4: But I like the intimate setting. It's more fun.

56
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,120
Speaker 1: Oh cool, cool. So I had to say, we have

57
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 1: to discover your music. When I was a child, I

58
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 1: had a father had a very extensive record collection. I'm

59
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,040
Speaker 1: sure that I'm not alone in which I thought you

60
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 1: were naturally of Mexican descent.

61
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:15,600
Speaker 4: Episo did I for while?

62
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:17,040
Speaker 1: No.

63
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 4: I used to go to bullfights in Tijuana in the

64
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,920
Speaker 4: springtime for about three years I did before I just

65
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 4: decided I don't like bullfighting anymore. But you know, that

66
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,320
Speaker 4: was an experience for me. And I never heard mariachi music.

67
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 4: But I heard this brass band in the stands that

68
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 4: kind of knocked me out because they would like introduce

69
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 4: all the events of a bullfight, you know, like before

70
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 4: the bull would come out, they'd come up with but

71
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 4: bang the bull shows up, you know, and then another

72
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 4: fanfare for the matador and the picadors in them, So

73
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,640
Speaker 4: it was kind of exciting, you know. And I tried

74
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 4: to translate that feeling into a song, and I had

75
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 4: a good melody from a end of mine, and that

76
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,080
Speaker 4: became The Lonely Bull and that record we released. That

77
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,400
Speaker 4: was the first record released on A and M nineteen

78
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,640
Speaker 4: sixty two, and it took off like a rocket ship.

79
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 4: So it was a good feeling.

80
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:19,240
Speaker 1: So can I assume that before nineteen sixty two in

81
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 1: American culture sort of the the mariachi sound or even

82
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:31,520
Speaker 1: the sound of Mexican music wasn't fully developed yet as

83
00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,720
Speaker 1: far as I mean, how popular was it at the time,

84
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,600
Speaker 1: Like was it introduced to you because you specifically went

85
00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 1: to these bullfights?

86
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,560
Speaker 4: I'm not sure, you know, it kind of just morphed

87
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,600
Speaker 4: into me. I was, you know, I like cal Jader

88
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:52,840
Speaker 4: and Predesprato, Macheto and those type of Latin groups. I

89
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,280
Speaker 4: remember seeing one time Macheto here in New York and

90
00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 4: it was a real eye opener for me because I

91
00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,080
Speaker 4: got there early. The band was on the stand, Machito

92
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 4: didn't arrive yet, and the band was very loosey goosey.

93
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,120
Speaker 4: They were playing some stuff that was really kind of

94
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 4: straggling along, you know, everyone kind of not in the

95
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 4: groove of things. Then Machito came out with the cow

96
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 4: bellum and bing bang bing bang bang, and all of

97
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:20,400
Speaker 4: a sudden.

98
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,240
Speaker 1: Everybody everybody alive.

99
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, everybody came alive at the right time. It was beautiful.

100
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,279
Speaker 4: So I mean that I've had several experiences where it

101
00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,600
Speaker 4: really hit me that is not what you do. It's

102
00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,760
Speaker 4: the way how you do it, and that's the way

103
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 4: I've been been operating.

104
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 1: True, I can agree with you.

105
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:43,920
Speaker 3: I do agree with that's the way how you do it.

106
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,240
Speaker 1: Well, it's as far as your your your your musical development,

107
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 1: your your childhood. What was how were you when you

108
00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 1: first picked up a trumpet?

109
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,640
Speaker 4: Well, I had this great experience in my grammar school

110
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 4: and there was a music appreciation class. I don't know

111
00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,159
Speaker 4: if they call it a music appreciation class, but it

112
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 4: was a class talking about music, and there was a

113
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,159
Speaker 4: table filled with various instruments. I happened to pick up

114
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 4: the trumpet because I liked the feeling of it. I

115
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,480
Speaker 4: was very small and the trumpets seemed to fit my

116
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 4: hand and I tried to make a sound out of it,

117
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,680
Speaker 4: which I couldn't do. I was just blowing hot air

118
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 4: into it and that didn't work. But when I finally

119
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,799
Speaker 4: you know, made sound out of the instrument and started

120
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 4: working on it, I realized that it was talking for

121
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,039
Speaker 4: me because I was very shy as a kid. I'm

122
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:37,920
Speaker 4: basically an introvert, but.

123
00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 1: More so than all musicians.

124
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's yeah, I guess one of those things.

125
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,159
Speaker 4: I've met a lot of great musicians in my days now,

126
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 4: but yeah, I was so anyways, the trumpet was talking

127
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,600
Speaker 4: for me. It was it was saying things that I

128
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,479
Speaker 4: couldn't get out of my mouth. So it was been

129
00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,520
Speaker 4: a great friend for me through the years, and I've

130
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,480
Speaker 4: learned a lot from it. We've had our ups and downs,

131
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 4: like all musicians do. Jumping forward, Dizzy Gillespie was a

132
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 4: friend of mine, and Dizzy used to say, you know,

133
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 4: the closer I get, the farther it looks okay.

134
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 1: Well, how first of all, what type of what trumpet

135
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 1: do you play?

136
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 4: Like?

137
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 1: I know there are different types of saxophones, altos and sprint,

138
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's.

139
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 4: A regular B flat trumpet. You know. I've had different

140
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,560
Speaker 4: models through the years, and I played all the Tijuana

141
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 4: brass records on a Chicago Benz trumpet. But it's not

142
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,440
Speaker 4: the trumpet. You know. I ran into a huge problem

143
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 4: playing the instrument around nineteen seventy, going through a divorce,

144
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,800
Speaker 4: and I don't know, my body wasn't feeling good and

145
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,440
Speaker 4: I was not mentally in good shape, and I had

146
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,200
Speaker 4: a real problem was it was a struggle to play

147
00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 4: the instrument. I was stuttering through the horn. I was like,

148
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 4: couldn't get the note out in time, really right. So

149
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,520
Speaker 4: I took some time off, and then I started studying

150
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,200
Speaker 4: with a teacher here in New York, Carmine Caruso, and

151
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,640
Speaker 4: he was known as the troubleshooter.

152
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:18,000
Speaker 1: You know.

153
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 4: He could teach brass instrument, he could teach any instrument.

154
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 4: Never played the trumpet, but he taught the trumpet. He

155
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 4: taught trumpet players from all over the country and all

156
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,320
Speaker 4: over the world. And he used to tell me, man,

157
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,000
Speaker 4: it's not the trumpet. The trumpet is just a piece

158
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:33,800
Speaker 4: of plumbing.

159
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 1: So you're essentially playing.

160
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was his description of the instruments. A piece

161
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 4: of plumbing. Man, you're the instrument. Doesn't matter what kind

162
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,560
Speaker 4: of mouthpiece of user, kind of trumpet you're playing. You know,

163
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 4: the sound is inside you, and that's, you know, the

164
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,520
Speaker 4: sound I've always tried to make, you know. I went

165
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,559
Speaker 4: through a period of thinking, well, man, do I can

166
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 4: I play like Clifford Brown? Heck no, you know that

167
00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:02,240
Speaker 4: guy was a genius beyond you know, and then Miles

168
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 4: and Louis Armstrong and all those great players. I was thinking, well,

169
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 4: I was trying to imitate them for a while, and

170
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 4: then I realized, who wants to hear that? They've already

171
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 4: done it? So I was looking for my own voice.

172
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: Well, I think you found it because I'll probably say

173
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 1: that next to Miles Davis, I could probably tell Dizzy

174
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 1: Gillespie's tone and about if you give me about twenty seconds,

175
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 1: I know, and maybe a touro, like there's certain Freddie trumpet. Yeah,

176
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 1: there's certain trumpet players in which you could tell instantly.

177
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,800
Speaker 1: But with you, you have such a distinctive tone and

178
00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:52,560
Speaker 1: voice with your playing that even yesterday, of course, like

179
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,599
Speaker 1: we all get very nervous when our heroes come to

180
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 1: play with us, and you know, the rule number one

181
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 1: is like try not to freak out in front of you.

182
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 1: So the quieter the quieter the roots are when rehearsing

183
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,600
Speaker 1: like you best believe we're on our cell phone.

184
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,600
Speaker 4: Like I enjoyed playing with you guys. But I had

185
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,640
Speaker 4: the supreme compliment from Miles. Miles said, you hear three

186
00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,760
Speaker 4: notes and you know it's so it's I mean, well, I.

187
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 1: Want to know how how much practice did it take

188
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,360
Speaker 1: as far as your craft is concerned before you knew? Okay,

189
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,560
Speaker 1: this is my lane and stay in it. And I

190
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 1: know that you know, were you ever tempted? Like for

191
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:38,400
Speaker 1: me as a drummer, I guess I've made my mark

192
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 1: playing flat footed When I was young. Bernar Party once

193
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 1: told me. He says, dude, I keep food on the

194
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 1: table with the two in the four. You want to

195
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,560
Speaker 1: keep food on the table or you want to like

196
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,480
Speaker 1: do you look mino? You know, because drummers are or

197
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 1: musicians always want to flex and let other musicians know

198
00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 1: I got more technique than you and that sort of sure.

199
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:05,320
Speaker 1: But I followed this advice and he's like, yo, just

200
00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,400
Speaker 1: if you just do the two and a four that

201
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,559
Speaker 1: that will last forever like a good tuxedo.

202
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's true to it. Agree, But I mean,

203
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,680
Speaker 4: you have to be authentic, you know, you have to

204
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,800
Speaker 4: be real. I don't think you can fake fake that

205
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,320
Speaker 4: you have to do something that's you're passionate about. And

206
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 4: if it's two and four you're passionate about, great, go ahead.

207
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 1: But during the time period in which, like you know,

208
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,800
Speaker 1: Miles is pushing the boundaries with you know, in a

209
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 1: silent way and bitches brew and all this stuff, are

210
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 1: you thinking like, damn, like I got to catch up

211
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 1: or you know, or for you it's just like.

212
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 4: No, I wasn't thinking about that. I wasn't really thinking

213
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 4: about making hit records. I mean, that's jumping forward. But

214
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,679
Speaker 4: you know, I was drafted in the Army out of UH.

215
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 4: I went to University of Southern California for about a

216
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,200
Speaker 4: year and I really didn't take to college. I just

217
00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,079
Speaker 4: didn't have that feel yet. But after the Army and

218
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 4: they sent me to Well, first off, I told them

219
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 4: that the only thing I know how to do is

220
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 4: play the trumpet, you know, I said, And I lied

221
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,400
Speaker 4: a bit. I played with Dizzy, and I played with

222
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 4: you know, Count Basie, and I gave him the whole

223
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 4: story of anyways, I was a trumpet player and that

224
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,600
Speaker 4: was my m O. So they sent me to band

225
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 4: school in Fort Knox, Kentucky, and there were like about

226
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,120
Speaker 4: ten trumpet players there, and these guys were all better

227
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,200
Speaker 4: than me, and you know, and I was coming from

228
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,360
Speaker 4: a situation where I was the number one trumpet player

229
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 4: at my school and all these gigs in Los Angeles,

230
00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,079
Speaker 4: and I realized that these guys could play higher, faster, louder,

231
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 4: read better, and the jazz was for the most part,

232
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 4: I mean not all of them, but most of them,

233
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 4: you know, were just pretty darn good. And I thought,

234
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,600
Speaker 4: if I'm ever going to make it as a professional musician,

235
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 4: I have to come up with my own style, my

236
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:03,960
Speaker 4: own voice. And that's what I start started pursuing. I

237
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:10,080
Speaker 4: heard this record by the guitar player, how High the

238
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,679
Speaker 4: Moon Les Paula and so Less was layering his his

239
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:22,080
Speaker 4: guitar on this on these tracks, and I tried doing

240
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 4: that at home. I had two tape machines. But believe

241
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,880
Speaker 4: it or not, I'm saying two tape machines. You know.

242
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,120
Speaker 4: When I started, are you sitting? I said, I had

243
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 4: a webcre wire recorder.

244
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,560
Speaker 3: It was a wire recorder, wire recorder, this pre tape.

245
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was pre tape. And it was like, you know,

246
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,720
Speaker 4: if you wanted to make an edit, you needed a

247
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,960
Speaker 4: soldering iron anyway, So I got the tape machines. I

248
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 4: got the Ampex Mono machine, and I had two of those,

249
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,160
Speaker 4: and I used to go from one machine to the other,

250
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,120
Speaker 4: layering the trumpet, and all of a sudden, ah, that's

251
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,560
Speaker 4: a nice sound. Was the Tijuanna, the genesis of the

252
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 4: Tijuana brass sound and the stacking the horns, And when

253
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 4: I hit on it, it felt like right. And then

254
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 4: you know, came The Lonely Bull and this record, uh,

255
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,360
Speaker 4: you know, it was a big hit record. And I

256
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 4: got this letter from a lady in Germany. I chuckled

257
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 4: when I first read it, but she said, dear mister Aubert,

258
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,520
Speaker 4: thank you for sending me on this vicarious trip to Tijuana,

259
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 4: you know, which made me think, Wow, that music was

260
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 4: so visual for her, it transported her. And I said, well,

261
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 4: that's the music that I really like to make. Make

262
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 4: music that takes you someplace, you know, post a elevator music,

263
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 4: which is it's music. It's not bad, not good, it's

264
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 4: just there. You know. You don't go out the elevator

265
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 4: whistling anything.

266
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,120
Speaker 1: But it wasn't invented at the time. What's that It

267
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 1: wasn't invented at the time. So you know, I don't

268
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 1: consider elevated music to be like a four letter word.

269
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 4: No, no, no, it's cool.

270
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 1: But I think it's ubiquitous, like okay, like it's beyond

271
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,960
Speaker 1: your home stereo, beyond your headphones, beyond your car, which

272
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 1: is like the three places that people mostly listen to music.

273
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 1: You know, when your music is in supermarkets and in

274
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 1: dentist office and that sort of thing, then it's like

275
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 1: it's it's in another dimension.

276
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 4: So right, So anyways, that letter kind of stuck home.

277
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,520
Speaker 4: And of course, you know, we haven't talked about it,

278
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,680
Speaker 4: but I learned a heck of a lot from Sam Cook.

279
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 4: You know, I worked with Sam. We wrote a song together,

280
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 4: Sam and I and lou Adler. We wrote don't know

281
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 4: much about history, don't know my trigger. We wrote that

282
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 4: song and Sam was.

283
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 1: A wait, you're singing you wonderful world, wonderful world.

284
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, but Sam and Louis I did not know this, well.

285
00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know.

286
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,400
Speaker 5: He was the les Paul the trumpet, like the first

287
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 5: one to over it. So you're saying you were the

288
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 5: first or one of the first to layer trumpet.

289
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 4: I don't know if I was the first, but that

290
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 4: was the sound, you know, that was the start of

291
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,400
Speaker 4: the Tea Wanna brass sound. But I learned a lot

292
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 4: from Sam. Sam had a really unique style. He came

293
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 4: out of the gospel field. He was with the Solsterers,

294
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,200
Speaker 4: as you know, and Lou Adler and I were partners.

295
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,560
Speaker 4: And it was right after we were hired by Keen

296
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 4: Records as staff writers, and it was right after Sam

297
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 4: had that big record of You Send Me and we

298
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 4: became friends with Sam, who was an extraordinary guy. I mean,

299
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 4: he just had he oozed talent. He used to walk

300
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 4: around with a notebook filled with lyrics. One day he

301
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 4: came up to me and said, Herbie, what do you

302
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 4: think of this lyric? And he opened his notebook and

303
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 4: I was looking at it, thinking myself, just to myself, Man,

304
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 4: this is corny. This is really corny. You know, I said,

305
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,359
Speaker 4: how's the song? What does it sound like? He picked

306
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 4: up his guitar and started singing this song, and I

307
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 4: was thinking, Holy moly, man, he turned this corny lyric

308
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 4: into something magical because of his authenticity, his intent, his

309
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 4: passion where he put the notes, how we put the

310
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,959
Speaker 4: melody together with the notes, and you know, the rhythm,

311
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,679
Speaker 4: the feel, and that was just a real big aha

312
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,439
Speaker 4: for me. That was the you know, it ain't what

313
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 4: you do, it's the way how you do it feeling moment.

314
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 5: There's also like a simplicity to Sam Cook's lyrics and

315
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 5: his singing style. So did you pick is that part

316
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 5: of what you picked up from him? Sort of that

317
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:46,879
Speaker 5: keep it simple?

318
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:47,399
Speaker 1: No?

319
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,199
Speaker 4: I don't think he thought about keeping it simple. I

320
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 4: think he thought about being authentic. I mean he was

321
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:54,800
Speaker 4: doing the follow up to You Send Me, and he

322
00:17:54,920 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 4: was singing I Love you for sentimental reasons. And the

323
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 4: owner of the company kind of dabbled as a piano player,

324
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 4: but not professionally, And we were in the recording booth

325
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 4: listening to the playback of one of the takes, and

326
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 4: the owner goes up to Sam and says, Sam, you

327
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 4: know here in bar twelve and bar eighteen and bar

328
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 4: forty four you can put in a who wo.

329
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what that live or something.

330
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's the one that was the kind

331
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,800
Speaker 4: of the hook of the you Send mething, right, And

332
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 4: Sam looked at him and said Jack, And his name wasn't.

333
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 1: Jack, right?

334
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 4: He says, you can't just put.

335
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:39,959
Speaker 1: In a who wo.

336
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 4: Whenever you want, man, you gotta feel it. Yeah, And

337
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 4: that was Sam. You know, he was.

338
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 1: Feeling emotion.

339
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,879
Speaker 4: He was totally into it, you know he was. I

340
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 4: loved him.

341
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

342
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 5: So is that what you ended up looking for to

343
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 5: skip forward in Ben's and artists that you were signing?

344
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,720
Speaker 5: Is that specific thing that you're talking about right now?

345
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 4: Well, you know I learned from him that. I'll give

346
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 4: you another example of him. He was he started, you know,

347
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 4: he was the first artist to have his own record

348
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 4: label called SAR remember that. And he was auditioning this

349
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 4: artist from the Caribbean, beautiful looking guy green Eyes, came

350
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 4: in with a little stool to put his foot on

351
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 4: hi as he was plucking his guitar, and I was

352
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 4: looking at him while he was singing, thinking that, man,

353
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 4: this guy is great. This guy really has something magical.

354
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 4: And Sam looked at me. He said, and I was

355
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 4: in the control room and this guy was out in

356
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 4: the studio and he came in. He said, what do

357
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,040
Speaker 4: you think of this guy? I said, well, I think

358
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 4: he's pretty good. You think I should sign him? I said,

359
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 4: I think so. He says, we'll do me a favorite.

360
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 4: Turn your back on him and listen to him for

361
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 4: five minutes. So I turned the chair around and all

362
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 4: of a sudden, I didn't receive anything. The guy wasn't

363
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 4: talking to me. And so at that moment I realized

364
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 4: that there's there's something to learn. And Sam, you know,

365
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 4: didn't sign the guy, and he told me that, you know,

366
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 4: it's not about how you can razzle dazzle somebody with

367
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 4: your looks or with your movement. You know, it's just

368
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 4: it's it's does he does it touch you? Or does

369
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 4: it not touch you?

370
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 1: You know, if only Sam knew sixty years of now.

371
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 4: Well you know, yeah, well you're absolutely right, but man,

372
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 4: it changed with you know, computers and video and yeah,

373
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,159
Speaker 4: the music videos and yeah, if you can razzle dazzle

374
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 4: somebody as a dancer and as a as a.

375
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 1: Well now it's like singing and talent. Really, I'm not

376
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 1: even being sarcastic or bitter sounding like I think it's

377
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 1: maybe even fifteen percent of the factor and it's more

378
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 1: about your personality.

379
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

380
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 1: Well, there's an artist out now that currently has the

381
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: number one song and their whole appeal basically rides on

382
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: them going on Instagram live like they're so charismatic as

383
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 1: a person that it makes you cheer for them and

384
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: they have like serious marginal talent. But even I find

385
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: myself cheering for marginal talent now in twenty seventeen, which is.

386
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, yeah, I agree with you. There's a different

387
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 4: That was a different time though, when I'm talking about it.

388
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 4: And then Sam taught me how to close my eyes

389
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 4: and listen to the artists. And that's what I did

390
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 4: with A and M. When you asked me, you know

391
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 4: about auditioning certain artists, I would always go in there

392
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 4: with my eyes closed and hear the music and make

393
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 4: a judgment on that. I mean, there was an artist

394
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,199
Speaker 4: I don't want to mention her name, but she called me.

395
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 4: She was an an M artist and she says she

396
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 4: had this single that was a smash man. You can't

397
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 4: miss with this thing. This was beautiful and she was

398
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 4: in the studio and she begged me to come by

399
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 4: and listen to it. So I did. Walked in the studio,

400
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 4: closed my eyes, sat down on the couch. I said, okay,

401
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 4: play it, and they played this thing and I couldn't

402
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 4: find any part of my body to move, you know,

403
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 4: I couldn't. I couldn't find my tota tap or anything,

404
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 4: you know.

405
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: So there's no goose bump.

406
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 4: There was zero goosebumps. And then I finally opened my

407
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 4: eyes and the artist and the engineer and the producer

408
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 4: they were dancing around the room. Man, they were just

409
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 4: having the best time, and I just did not get

410
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 4: it at all, And so well that That's always been

411
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 4: my measure. You know, if it gets in me, then

412
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 4: I'm good at that.

413
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: Can I take one while? Guess?

414
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, not read it. I liked reader. You know, Rita

415
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 4: was part of the group that the Mad Dogs in Englishmen. Yeah. Yeah,

416
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: that was a pretty amazing moment for me too.

417
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: Would I would like you to at least explain to me,

418
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,239
Speaker 1: I guess the perception of California musicians, and I mean,

419
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: I'm putting you kind of in the jazz genre. I

420
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: don't know if do you consider yourself a jazz artist

421
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: or an instrumentalist.

422
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 4: Or I think I'm an improvisational artist in well, see,

423
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 4: that's a whole long discussion, because I think jazz needs

424
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 4: a renaissance, it needs a revision, and Miles had it,

425
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 4: you know, Miles kind of took it forward. I think

426
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 4: he understood the genre just about probably better than any

427
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 4: other jazz musician. You know he would, I don't know.

428
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 4: He was involved in the melodies, in the feel, and

429
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 4: always choosing the right musicians to play with. And I

430
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 4: think we need that. I think the day of playing

431
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 4: the song and then everybody taking a course and then

432
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 4: playing the song again, I think that's old hat.

433
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: Well, I'm only asking because like the perception of I

434
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,680
Speaker 1: guess the perception of the New York musicians snobbery, which

435
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: New York is considered cool and cold and not as

436
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: laid back as California. So thus it's sort of the

437
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,239
Speaker 1: perception that you have to suffer for your art, or

438
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: it's a gritty you have to come from a gritty

439
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 1: environment for your art. Whereas you know, you look at

440
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: these California musicians and I know that New Yorkers sort

441
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: of looked down on them, Like was there as far

442
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: as like the perception of your contemporaries at the time,

443
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: like were you mixing it up with Chet Baker or

444
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: you know, the California instrumentalist of the time period of

445
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: the late fifties.

446
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 4: Definitely, yeah, no, but I was in high school. Chet

447
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 4: was playing with the quartet with Jerry Mulligan at the place,

448
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 4: a place called the Hag and I used to go

449
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 4: there to see them in high school. Uh, and it

450
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: was it was a great experience obviously, you know, there

451
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 4: was no piano, just based drums and chat and Jerry

452
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 4: Mulligan and the and the four of them just made

453
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 4: some music that was very very avant garde and beautiful

454
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 4: at the time. And I remember when they wanted to

455
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: take a break, Jerry Mulligan would get up to the

456
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: microphone and say, shortly.

457
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: Cut to the chase, Yeah, just shortly, so about the

458
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: Tea Wana brass. Can I assume that that was just

459
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: the Wrecking Crew and name only like or was there

460
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: a point where you actually like on the record that

461
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: has to be the recond Crew because it was so

462
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: clean sounding right well up.

463
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 4: Through the Whip Cream and Other Delights album. That was

464
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 4: not all the Wrecking Crew, but it was definitely Hal

465
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 4: Blaine on drums, Carol Kay sometimes on bass, and guitar,

466
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 4: mainly bass. Yeah, I used musicians of my choice, and

467
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 4: that's how it started, because you know, I had this

468
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: idea of how I wanted the record to sound, and

469
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 4: I knew the musicians in town.

470
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: So but when it came to reproducing that live.

471
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, after the Whip Cream and Other Delights album,

472
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 4: I got an actual group together, and it was always different,

473
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 4: you know. It always gave me a feeling like it's

474
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 4: not quite the sound that I made on record, but

475
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 4: it's okay. I had a great drummer, Nix s so Roli,

476
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 4: and I went to the musicians that I found. I

477
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 4: went to their strength. Instead of trying to give them

478
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 4: something that they couldn't do, I tried to see what

479
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 4: they could do really well. And the music kind of

480
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 4: took a turn from that point on.

481
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: What were your audiences looking like at that time period?

482
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 4: Wow? When when the Tijuana Brass really hit after the

483
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 4: Whipped Cream album, it was young and old, it was

484
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: it was a basic I had this experience in Seattle, Washington.

485
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 4: We were playing there with the new group and the

486
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 4: my partner Jerry moss I recorded a record called third

487
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: Man Theme. He loved it, you know, and on b

488
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 4: side was a Taste of Honey. So in Seattle, Washington

489
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 4: at the Edgewater End, every time I played Taste of Honey,

490
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 4: the audience went wild. I mean they loved it for

491
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 4: some reason. And sometimes I played it twice in a row,

492
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 4: and I called.

493
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: So, it's only two minutes, so how would.

494
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 4: You well, I mean, you know, they liked it so

495
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 4: much they let's hear it again. So I called Jerry said, man,

496
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 4: you're on the wrong side. It's taste of honey. He says, Ah, Man,

497
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 4: you can't. He says, it's not a good radio song.

498
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 4: It's it's uh, you know, stops in the middle twice

499
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 4: and it slows down and you can't. You know, it

500
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 4: wasn't suited for radio. I said, look it, man, there's

501
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 4: a focus group up here, and I'm telling you it's

502
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 4: taste of funny. Let's try it. So we eventually turned

503
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: it over and that that's the record that really opened

504
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 4: the door for the Tijuana Brass because after that then

505
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: we started performing in all the major shows, you know,

506
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 4: the Ed Sullivan and Dean Martin and Andy Williams and

507
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 4: Danny k all those big shows wanted us. So from

508
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 4: that point on we were sailing.

509
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: So let's bring in Jerry Moss. How did you how

510
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: did you two meet?

511
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 4: Well, we met, Uh. My story is we met him

512
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: in New York. I met him in New York. History

513
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: is he met me in Loss Lou Adler and I

514
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 4: did a record that was a huge monster here in

515
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 4: New York called Alioup and our friend Ted mutual Fred

516
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 4: friend Ted Fagin was the head promotion man Madison Records,

517
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 4: and he went to school with Jerry and he introduced

518
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 4: me to Jerry. And Jerry was a promotion man. He

519
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 4: was just getting going, but he had a great feel

520
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 4: for records and a great field for people. He's a

521
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 4: real you know, he's a real person. And we got

522
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 4: together in Los Angeles started talking about producing a couple

523
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 4: of records. What he wanted to do a record with

524
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: an actor friend of his. And I had this record

525
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 4: that I was fooling around with called tell It to

526
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 4: the Birds that I was singing on, and we put

527
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 4: out Tell It to the Birds, and we put out

528
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 4: this record that he wanted to put out and tell

529
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 4: It that the birds started popping up. It started happening

530
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 4: in San Francisco and Los Angeles and we turned it

531
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 4: over to Records for distribution. They gave us I think

532
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 4: five hundred dollars for that plus a percentage, and with

533
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: that money we recorded The Lonely Bull, which was an

534
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 4: offshoot of my visits to Tijuana and I played it

535
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: for a disc jockey friend, b Mitchell Reid was a

536
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 4: friend of mine that he was the number one jock

537
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles, and I played the demo for him

538
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 4: before it was released, and he said, where's the hook?

539
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 4: I said, what do you mean the hook? He says,

540
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 4: you know you need a hook. I said, man, this

541
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 4: is an instrumental. It's not a vocal. He said, you

542
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 4: think about a hook. And that's when I called Ted

543
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 4: Keeps at Liberty Records, who was the head engineer, and

544
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 4: he had this tape of thirty thousand people screaming Ola

545
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 4: had a bullfight, and he gave it to me to use,

546
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 4: and that was the thing I used, right in the

547
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 4: front of the lonely bull, and that was the supposed hook,

548
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 4: and that cada pulled at the record. Man, it took off,

549
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 4: and it took off in it broken in San Francisco,

550
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 4: right and there was a disc jockey, Jim Lang who's

551
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 4: also on The Dating Game, was the MC of that

552
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 4: for a while, and he broke that record, and I

553
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: went up to San Francisco to thank him. You know,

554
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 4: I walked into the control room and I introduced myself.

555
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 4: He was excited and I said, man, I want to

556
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 4: thank you for playing that record. Thank you so much.

557
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 4: He looked at me and says, I wouldn't have played

558
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 4: it if I didn't like it. And from that point on,

559
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 4: I never thanked the jock for playing the record. I

560
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 4: thought that was a very appropriate thing to say. You know,

561
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 4: I would hope to think that they liked the record,

562
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 4: that's why they're playing it.

563
00:31:58,920 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: Wow.

564
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: So wait, Well you mentioned Lou Adler, which I'm thinking

565
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: because you two went down similar paths, and I know

566
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: that eventually he did a distribution thing or association thing

567
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: with his label. But did you two never discuss, uh,

568
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: starting a partnership together, like starting your own label at

569
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: one point.

570
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 4: Or not a label. We were partners, you know, we

571
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 4: wrote you know, Lou dated my ex wife, Oh boy,

572
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 4: no sound effects. But that's how I met Luke he

573
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 4: was married to after that, he was married to my

574
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 4: ex wife's girlfriend, Damn Lou, and we became friends. We're

575
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 4: very I love the guy. I remember, We're very close.

576
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 4: And we started He wrote poetry and I wrote some

577
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: melodies to his poetry, and we took around these demos

578
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 4: after making demos records, and this one, well, we took

579
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 4: this demo to Specialty Records in nineteen fifty seven or so,

580
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 4: and Sonny Bono was the head and and R guy

581
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 4: Specialty Records at the time, and so he listened to

582
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 4: our records and he said, look, I want to be

583
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: honest with you guys. I think you guys ought to

584
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 4: get out of the business. But we like Sonny. He

585
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 4: was an interesting characters. Yeah, that was cold. That was

586
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 4: a coold thing to tell anyone. You know, I'd never

587
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 4: do that, you know, even at A and M and

588
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: I interview and audition groups, and I tell them if

589
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 4: I didn't get it, I say, look it, man, just

590
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,479
Speaker 4: because I ain't receiving anything, don't mean you ain't sending something.

591
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 4: So don't give up, you know, do whatever you know

592
00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 4: you're passionate about doing. Anyway. So when I you know,

593
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 4: got this job, I told you before as writers for

594
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 4: Keen Records, And that's how we met Sam Cook and

595
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 4: have been bit of boom. A lot of things happened from.

596
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: That because because of his because of his New York association.

597
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: Have you ever done anything in the Brill building at

598
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: all or considered going to?

599
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 4: No, But you know all those writers, those great writers,

600
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 4: you know, Backreck recorded for us and Carol King and

601
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 4: all those I know they came out of that place

602
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 4: and Jerry Leeber and Stoller. I knew those guys. Liber

603
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 4: went to Jerry liber went to the same high school

604
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 4: I went to. He was a couple of years ahead

605
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 4: of me. But he was an extraordinary guy. He uh,

606
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 4: he was very innovative. You know that that record of

607
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 4: There Goes My Baby by the Drifters, it was his

608
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 4: idea to put strings on. That was before anybody put

609
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 4: the string reception on a record. And the story of

610
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 4: him dancing around the studio kind of telling the string

611
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: players you know what he wanted to hear. It was

612
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 4: very vivid. And those guys you know, obviously made some wonderful,

613
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 4: wonderful records together.

614
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: So how easy or challenging was it to form your

615
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: own label, because you know, I mean, today it's so

616
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: do it yourself. People can make a complete album on

617
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: their laptop very little resources, and the quality is just

618
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,720
Speaker 1: as good as spending you know, at an entire budget

619
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: in the studio. But you know, why did you not consider, like, oh,

620
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: maybe we should take this to Columbia, or maybe we

621
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: should take this to you know, mercury or something like

622
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: an established label, because I tend to think that to

623
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: be to be a creative, it's just hard enough. Now

624
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: you've got to be a creative person and you got

625
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 1: to be a businessman, right.

626
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 4: Well, lucky for me, you know, I'm not a businessman,

627
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 4: and my partner Jerry Moss was is.

628
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: But it's still your business though. I'm sure that you

629
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: guys have to have like a fifty to fifty kind

630
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: of like. Okay, I got to make some decisions and

631
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: come to meetings and shaking.

632
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, definitely. But I had this major experience. Yeah,

633
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 4: I recorded for RCA Victor before I ended records. I

634
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 4: recorded for them for about a year and a half, okay,

635
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 4: maybe two years, and I was I filed everything I

636
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 4: didn't like about how they treated me. You know, I

637
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 4: was a number to them, I was. I wasn't the

638
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 4: Herb Albert. I was three eight two five one take three,

639
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 4: you know that type of guy. And in this recording

640
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 4: facility they had that was very ice cold. It was

641
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 4: you know, white on white on white on white, and

642
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 4: then in the control room it was no different. It

643
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 4: was a cold place. And I was listening to a

644
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 4: playback of one of the songs I did, and I

645
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 4: wanted to push up the bass channel because I needed

646
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 4: more bass on the sound. And I went over to

647
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 4: the board and I lifted the bass up and with

648
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 4: the pot and the engineer slapped my hand.

649
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 5: I get out of wow, no wait, yeah, you don't

650
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 5: allowed to do that.

651
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 4: No, and uh, you know I he said, don't ever

652
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 4: touch this board again. This is a union house and

653
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 4: blah blah blah, and yeah yeah yeah, And so I

654
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 4: filed all that, thinking like, man, shouldn't a record of business.

655
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 4: Company shouldn't revolve around the artist, you know, And that's

656
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 4: what I tried to do at A and M and

657
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 4: was a really peaceful company and we were thinking about

658
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 4: the artist and had this well, you know, when the

659
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 4: Lonely Bull happened, our distributors around the country said, why

660
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 4: don't you guys take the money and run. You know,

661
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 4: you got lucky with this Tijuana brass thing, your close

662
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 4: proximity to Tijuana, and it's not going to happen again,

663
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 4: Like that's an instrumental. Instrumental zon't happen that often. And

664
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 4: those a that gave us fadder for trying to hang

665
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 4: on to it. See how long we could hang on.

666
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 4: They wanted a Lonely Bull album, which we gave them

667
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 4: and that sold well, so we tried to hang on

668
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 4: to it as long as we could, and we started

669
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 4: recording a couple other artists and the big AHA for me,

670
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 4: and this was the moment that I realized that A

671
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 4: and M was going to be successful. We signed Waylon Jennings.

672
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 4: Whylan was living in Phoenix, Arizona, and he was He

673
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 4: played with Buddy Holly and he was for some lucky reason,

674
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 4: he didn't get on that airplane, but I used to

675
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 4: fly down to Phoenix. We signed him to a four

676
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 4: year contract. He used to fly down there and record

677
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 4: him and he really wanted to be a country artist.

678
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 4: And I you know, did a record with him called

679
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 4: four Strong Winds that was excellent. It was really had

680
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 4: a good feel. He got this call from Chad Atkins

681
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 4: who heard that record and made some you know overtures

682
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 4: to UH to Whalen, which he probably shouldn't have done

683
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 4: because he was Whalem was under contract us. But he said,

684
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 4: you know, when when Whalen gets free, he'd like to

685
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 4: talk to him. Whalen told me about that, and at

686
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 4: that point I wanted to take Whalen just a little

687
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 4: more pop. Whalen wanted to be a country artist, so

688
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 4: he was all excited about chat Atkins calling because chet

689
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 4: Adskins was the messiah of country music at that time.

690
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 4: He was the an R head of RCAA Victor and

691
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 4: so we talked it all over. I talked it over

692
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 4: with my partner Jerry, and we decided to let Waylan

693
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 4: out of his contract so we could go with Jet

694
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 4: and we had about three more years on his contract.

695
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 4: And I remember the day that we signed his release

696
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 4: and I looked at Jerry. I said, this guy's going

697
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 4: to be a big star, and Jerry said, yeah, I

698
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 4: think so too, and we let him out. And I thought,

699
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 4: from that point on, man, if we could be that honest,

700
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: that authentic and that caring for our artists, we were

701
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 4: going to do. We were going to do.

702
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: Okay, who was the first artist you guys signed outside

703
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: of releasing your own music.

704
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 4: Well, there were a couple of hours. One was George mccerrn,

705
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 4: who was the bass singer with the Pilgrim Travelers and

706
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 4: that was like the number one gospel group in the

707
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 4: which I learned a lot from. By the way, just

708
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 4: thinking back on that as you mentioned that, because I

709
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 4: used to watch them record and it was just the

710
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 4: five guys with George mccern who called himself Oopy. He

711
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 4: was singing bass, and then just a guy playing snare

712
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 4: with brushes, no big deal, no big backbeat, you know,

713
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 4: no two and four slamming at you, and these guys

714
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 4: would would just make you feel like, Wow, this this

715
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 4: unrelenting time zone that these guys were in, and the

716
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 4: feeling and the the energy that they had it was

717
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 4: just like swinging swinging hard. And I thought from that point, man,

718
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 4: you don't need all that stuff to make a good feel.

719
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 4: It has to just all the musicians have to gel

720
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 4: together in a common cause, you know what I mean.

721
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 4: So George mccurrn was one. We had a group called

722
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 4: the Kenjelaires that was a vocal group. Didn't do very well,

723
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 4: but they had a nice sound. And then Wayland came along. Yeah,

724
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: but the Tijuana Brass was We were kind of supporting

725
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 4: A and M a long until around nineteen sixty seven

726
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 4: or eight we signed a group called the We Five

727
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 4: You were on my Mind. It became number one record

728
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 4: and then sixty six, well, in sixty six we signed

729
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 4: Brazil sixty six, Sergio Mendez in Brazil sixty six. That

730
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 4: was a big one for us because they had a

731
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 4: really unique sound. You know, we auditioned them and remember

732
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 4: walking in this room and hearing this hybrid sound of

733
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 4: Brazilian classical jazz, Brazilian jazz, American jazz pop. They had

734
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 4: that whole thing. And then my wife, Lonnie was the

735
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 4: lead singer.

736
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: I lost my mind when I realized that. I think

737
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: she was promoting her book and when she mentioned that,

738
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: and then it finally hit me that, oh my god,

739
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: she's the one of the female voices of Brazil sixteen.

740
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, so she was not one of them, she was

741
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 4: the singer. Yeah, I doubled her. I got that hy puppa,

742
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 4: the t want to brass twist on her on Sergio's

743
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 4: thing because they had another girl. There were two girls, yeah,

744
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 4: and one girl was very beautiful, but she was not

745
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,479
Speaker 4: a recording artist. You know, she just have that sound.

746
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 4: And when I heard my wife was that voice. Yeah,

747
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 4: she had that voice, and that was her sound on

748
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 4: you know, Maski, Nada, Fool on the Hill and all

749
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 4: those early records that I produced with Sergio.

750
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: What was the question, Well, no, I'm just going through

751
00:43:54,239 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: your initial roster of Vietnam dealing with those those artists,

752
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: and I guess in the in the seventies.

753
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 3: Well wait, we're getting awfully close to CTI.

754
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: Yes, let's not skip CTI. Yeah.

755
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 4: And Quincy, well, Quincy Man, you know, Quincy is Quincy.

756
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 4: He's a unique character. Yeah, he's one of those guys.

757
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 4: You know, you don't have to you don't see him

758
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 4: for eight ten months, a year or three, and you're

759
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 4: like old buddies right from the get go. He has

760
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 4: a magnetic personality, he's brilliant. He has eighteen balls going

761
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 4: up in the air at the same time, and they're all,

762
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 4: you know, worthwhile, they're all doing something interesting.

763
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 1: We had the we had the fortune of recording our

764
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: show at the former A M. Studios, which is now

765
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: Jim Henson Studios, which I guess was formerly the Charlie

766
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: Chaplin Studios. You know, even now past I'm sure that

767
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: anyone that goes through there that has had some sort

768
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: of history there, there's there's a feeling that you get

769
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: in that environment when the gates closed and you're just

770
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: inside of that world, in that environment. So the entire

771
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: A and M operations was inside of the former Chapman Studios.

772
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: Like that's where as far as the studio was concerned.

773
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: In the offices, everything was in.

774
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 4: The well not in the early days. The early days

775
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 4: was in my garage. I mean that's where we started, yeah,

776
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 4: I And then we had an office on Sunset Boulevard

777
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 4: for a while that was, you know, little modest place,

778
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 4: but then we bought the studios. I think nineteen, I

779
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 4: don't remember the year.

780
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 6: How did you avoid the the ugly side of the business,

781
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 6: because I know that to be an upstart to get

782
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 6: your stuff played.

783
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of hand shaking, kissing, babies, politicking,

784
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: grease and palms. I know that, you know, the the element.

785
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: What's the New York guy used to have records, Mars Leavey.

786
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe.

787
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: Like, how do you how do you deal with people

788
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: that see you like, oh, getting success in Hey, I

789
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: like a piece of that or you know that, because

790
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: I mean you guys were essentially always an independent label.

791
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 4: Right yeah, well I personally side stepped all that stuff.

792
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: But how can you when people are like, hey, you know,

793
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: let me let me bring my wife sings and let

794
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: me get a piece of the like again, you have

795
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: to be a business person also, like how do you

796
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: avoid how do you avoid that? Especially when the late

797
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: sixties and the early seventies was so record label were

798
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: so corrupted. I mean, you didn't hear about that with

799
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: your label, you didn't hear that, but with Moe Austin

800
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: at Warners. But you know, definitely, I know that a

801
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: lot of those mom and pop labels that were trying

802
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: to get the status of a CBS or a Mercury,

803
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of grime that they had

804
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: to avoid and how do you sidestep?

805
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I never got involved personally. I heard about it,

806
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 4: but it wasn't something that interested interested me. And I

807
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 4: wasn't good at that, you know, I didn't. I just

808
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 4: know about trying to be me. You know, it's it's

809
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 4: not enough just to be yourself, you know, and work

810
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 4: in that world. I'm an artist, you know, I'm eighty

811
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 4: five percent on the right side of my brain. I paint,

812
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 4: scope make music, and I'm a lucky guy. So I

813
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 4: always you know, when we A and M started growing

814
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 4: and we had these business meetings every Thursday with lawyers

815
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 4: and count and and all that. Man, my eyes would

816
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 4: glass over that was just like, holy moly, man, this

817
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 4: ain't me. So I kind of found a way to,

818
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 4: you know, get out of that thing because it was

819
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 4: it would it would dig into my creativity.

820
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: So at on the business and what was your role?

821
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 1: Did you look for new artists that you listened to tapes? Jerry?

822
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: These brothers and sister act that we gotta sign. Man,

823
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: their harmonies are really crazy. They're called the Carpenters. We

824
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: gotta do it, Like, how do you convince?

825
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 4: I didn't have to convince anybody when I wanted. I

826
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 4: signed the Carpenters because I loved them, period not. There

827
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 4: was no you know, we didn't have a committee, you

828
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 4: It was just my office was right next to Jerry's

829
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 4: and I just said, you know, I'm signing these kids.

830
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 4: You know they were great, but I used the Sam

831
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 4: Cook method with them. You know they heard I heard

832
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 4: this tape, put it on in my office and closed

833
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 4: my eyes and it felt like Karen's voice was coming

834
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 4: right up and sitting next to me on the couch,

835
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 4: I said, I got to meet this girl. You know,

836
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 4: she's has this very interesting voice, and she didn't think

837
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 4: of herself as a singer. She was a drummer and

838
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 4: a pretty darn good drummer too, So signed them, and

839
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 4: luck be having.

840
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 1: When you heard these tapes, were those harmonies hitting you

841
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: like the way that the final product was.

842
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, No, there was something there because Richard and

843
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 4: it wasn't just Karen. It was a combination of the

844
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 4: two of them. Richard Carpenter is a very creative guy.

845
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 4: He has great taste and songs, and he was great

846
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 4: with choral harmonies, and he was very instrumental in their success.

847
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 4: But in nineteen seventy, you know, they had a couple

848
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 4: of records that didn't do great, and people in my

849
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: own company were saying, wem man by just signing these guys.

850
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 4: I mean, that was the rumble I was hearing. You know,

851
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 4: they're a little too cute, they're little, they don't fit

852
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 4: on on radio, blah blah blah.

853
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: So people thought they were like more bubble gummy.

854
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, bubble gummy music. No, uh huh. And so then

855
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 4: I gave them close to You. I had that song

856
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 4: that Bert Backreck and how David wrote and they recorded

857
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 4: it and I didn't like the recording. Karen was playing

858
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 4: drums and they recorded again. That wasn't it? I said,

859
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 4: we need more, we need you know, let's get them guys,

860
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 4: Let's get the wrecking. So Hal Blaine came in and

861
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 4: Joe Osbourne was on bass and they made that record.

862
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 4: And that record I remember after they finished it, I

863
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 4: played it for Bert over the phone and he flipped

864
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 4: out and that record was a monster. And then, of course,

865
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 4: after all the same people in my company that were

866
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 4: saying why'd you sign those guys, all of a sudden

867
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 4: thought I was a genius.

868
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: Christmas Bonus time, Right? Did you give Bert backack his?

869
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: Were you the start of his? Because I know he

870
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: wrote this Guy's in love with You? Correct?

871
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, he wrote this Guy's in Love with You with

872
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 4: Hal David.

873
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

874
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 4: And that was their first number one record, which was

875
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 4: really interesting.

876
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: Man, it was their first so that started the ball

877
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: rolling for.

878
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 4: Well, not for them, Oh no, they had my humpteen

879
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 4: hits before that, but that was the first number one.

880
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

881
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 4: No, they have all sorts of records that were beautiful.

882
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 4: I mean they're really Bert is a very very unusual artist.

883
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 4: You know, he has his own voice, his own style.

884
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 4: You can't really second guess his melodies. They just kind

885
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,919
Speaker 4: of take his someplace and there there's a logic to it,

886
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 4: but only he knows how to get there.

887
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: What made you decide to sing one This Guy's in

888
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: Love with You?

889
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 4: Well, there was a television show we were doing for

890
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 4: NBC and the director, Jack Hayley Jr. Asked me to

891
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 4: try and sing a song, you know, because he was

892
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 4: tired of photographing me with the trumpet my mouth. So

893
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 4: I called Bert and asked him if there was a

894
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 4: song that he he you know, starts whistling in the shower,

895
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 4: or maybe a song he recorded but didn't like the

896
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 4: recording anyways. He sent me this Girl's in Love with

897
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 4: You that he recorded with Diane Warwick and I liked

898
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 4: the song a lot, but the gender had to be

899
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 4: changed because it was written for her called hal David

900
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 4: flew to New York. He was living in New York

901
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 4: at the time, and I was there while he was

902
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 4: changing the lyric, and I asked him the same question

903
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 4: as I was leaving his house, and he sent me

904
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 4: close to You And I was going to use that

905
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 4: as the follow up to This Guy's in Love with You,

906
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 4: which was zoom to number one in two weeks. That

907
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 4: record was number one after the television show hit, and

908
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 4: so I recorded Close to You and I had a

909
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 4: pretty good recording and the engineer, who was a friend

910
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 4: of mine, Larry Levine, I said, listening to the playback,

911
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 4: I thought it was good. I said, Larry, tell me

912
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 4: the truth. What do you think? He says, Man, you

913
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 4: sound terrible singing this song.

914
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: He's just that blunt, honest with you.

915
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 4: Yeah.

916
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: Well, he was a how many naysayers in your life?

917
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 3: Man?

918
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: No, that's good. You know. I'm not saying your life

919
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: should be full, yes, Ben, but.

920
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 4: Oh look at I'm I like to have people around

921
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 4: me that give me the truth.

922
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: That's that's was he right?

923
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 4: Well, I think he was right, although I still liked

924
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 4: the record, but I put it away. I didn't, you know,

925
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 4: I got a gun shy.

926
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:52,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

927
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 4: So in nineteen seventy, when the Carpenters had a couple

928
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 4: of records out there that didn't happen, then I gave

929
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 4: Richard Close to You. And that was the start of

930
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 4: their monstrous career. Because I mean that, man, that when

931
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 4: that once that door opened for the Carpenters, it was

932
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 4: like watch out, man. It happened all over the world.

933
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 4: It was fantastic.

934
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: Okay, So what was your relationship, Like, how did the

935
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: Creed Tailor Association come to be?

936
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 4: Well? Well, Creed? In my opinion, Creed is one of

937
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 4: the most He was one of the great jazz producers

938
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 4: I think of all time. He just had a field

939
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 4: for what to do with Wes and do you know

940
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 4: he made some extraordinary records with Bill Evans, and he

941
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 4: just had a feel for how to market them, how

942
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 4: to how to package it. You know, they packaged the

943
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 4: record properly, and he sequenced it properly. I think he

944
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 4: knew what to do. That record he made with the

945
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 4: organ player Jimmy Smith, Jimmy Smith, that's one of my

946
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 4: favorite records, you know, the one he did with Walk

947
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 4: on the wild Side. And I don't know, he was

948
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 4: just looking for a different distribution deal and we were

949
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 4: honored to have him because I just love him as

950
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 4: a producer.

951
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: Were you guys not worried well, because you guys had

952
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 1: a lot of distribution deals. Were you guys not worried

953
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: at all about I don't know if branding was still

954
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: the thing the way it is now, Like people want

955
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: to have their branding set now and in motion, make

956
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: that front and center before even the product. But you know,

957
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: was there any fear that because I didn't even know,

958
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: like I know, I guess now that that I'm an

959
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 1: adult that you know, like Tapestry is and in related

960
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: even though it was on Lose Album and all those

961
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: Cheech and Song records, well it was on records. Yeah,

962
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: but you know, but I'm just saying that, was there

963
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 1: any fear of like the label not being up in

964
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: front and you having these other subsidiary labels under you.

965
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 4: No, I don't think we ever thought about that. We

966
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 4: were just putting out good music. You know. My partner

967
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 4: Jerry had the same feeling I have about music. We

968
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 4: try to make. You know, in the early days when

969
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 4: we started in sixty two, you know, there were a

970
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 4: lot of record companies operating out of the trunks of

971
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 4: their car, and a lot of companies would you know,

972
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 4: get one hit record and then they make an album

973
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 4: with fillers. You know, they'd have the hit record and

974
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 4: they have a bunch of junkie records you know that

975
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 4: are hardcovers. Yeah, just things that were just economically good

976
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 4: to do or I guess, I don't know, but we

977
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 4: never wanted to do that. We wanted to, you know,

978
00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 4: give the public a fair shot and make music that

979
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 4: we would purchase ourselves. And then when the Lonely Bull

980
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 4: and the tierron and brass started happening, we hired a

981
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 4: guy that was working at the pressing plant and turned

982
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 4: into be our quality control person. So all the records

983
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 4: and all the masters that came out of it, and

984
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 4: we're really as clean as they could be. So we

985
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 4: weren't thinking about how much money we could make, how

986
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 4: much you know, good music we put out there, and still,

987
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 4: you know, be honest, didn't make a good living doing it.

988
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 4: That's what was it. That's what we were pursuing.

989
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: How big was the staff once you guys got to

990
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: the Chaplain Studios.

991
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 4: Well, at the Chaplain Studios we had thirty three people

992
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 4: at that time, started with the two, then there were three, five, ten,

993
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 4: you know, and all of a sudden it got way

994
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 4: out of hand, you know, towards the end. I didn't

995
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 4: know anybody in the company.

996
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: In the beginning, you knew, well, well, in.

997
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 4: The beginning, it was just Jerry myself, you know, that

998
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 4: wouldn't be make all the decisions.

999
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: And who was your if you can recall who was

1000
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: like your star an R? Who was the an R

1001
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,959
Speaker 1: guy that like just brought to you, like your top

1002
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: five favorite acts to the label, Like who was the

1003
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: one guy that you could depend on.

1004
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 4: Well, you know, there were some guys in in London

1005
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 4: that did really well when we.

1006
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 3: Got okay and there we go squeeze, well squeeze yeah.

1007
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1008
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 4: But then.

1009
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: So you're saying that there was an A and m

1010
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: uh division in London, Well, yeah, because that would plase

1011
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: and yeah the place and Joe Cocker and okay.

1012
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we am we had super Tramp, which they

1013
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 4: were huge in Europe.

1014
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: So all the all the British associated An m acts, Yeah,

1015
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: they came out, were signed and right when did you

1016
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: guys expand past?

1017
00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that was around nineteen sixty nine, I believe

1018
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 4: you know when Jerry you know, thought that you know,

1019
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 4: our image at the time was kind of easy listening,

1020
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 4: kind of cool music, and he wanted to you know,

1021
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 4: jump into the five pan Yeah, the real stuff, the

1022
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 4: stuff that was happening, you know, a little more edgy.

1023
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 4: And that's when Joe Cocker and Mad Dogs and Englishmen

1024
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 4: you know, got going. And that was the first time

1025
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 4: I was kind of indoctrinated into that type of music

1026
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 4: because I was not a stuff shirt. But you know,

1027
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 4: I came up through the classical field and then I

1028
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 4: was making my own music. And when I remember walking

1029
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 4: into these sound stage when Cocker and Leon Russell was

1030
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 4: playing piano and they had two drummers and Rita Coolidge

1031
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 4: and the singers were doing the thing with they were

1032
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 4: rehearsing for upcoming upcoming tour. I remember walking into the

1033
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 4: sound stage. I listen to him and I had my

1034
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 4: eyes closed, you know, the way I usually do. It

1035
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 4: was open enough to see where I was gonna sit.

1036
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 4: I sat on the sound on the stage, and all

1037
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,919
Speaker 4: of a sudden, Joe started singing and I got goosebumps,

1038
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 4: you know. I said, Wow, that's a sound. And I

1039
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 4: opened my eyes and Joe was gyrating like he was

1040
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 4: playing guitar or something, you know, as he was singing

1041
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 4: and totally into it. And I said, hmmm, I like that.

1042
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 4: So that from that point on I was the door

1043
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 4: opened for me for rock and roll and that other

1044
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 4: type of music.

1045
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: So you always kept that Sam Cook theory of I

1046
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 1: gotta I got to hear it first before I see it,

1047
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: before I opened my eyes.

1048
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 6: See what.

1049
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 4: Definitely I use that always. Yeah, there was a. There

1050
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 4: was a female group that was floating around New York.

1051
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 4: I can't remember their name, but they all the record

1052
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 4: companies supposedly were interested in signing them. Yeah, so I

1053
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 4: flew to New York and I think they're Basil. They

1054
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 4: were playing at that one of those clubs, Basil, I

1055
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 4: don't rego, okay, sweet Basil. Yes, or they were playing,

1056
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 4: and so I walked in there and had my eyes

1057
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 4: closed and kind of open enough to see where the

1058
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 4: seed was, and I sat down started listening to him,

1059
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 4: and zero man zero came out. I didn't get them

1060
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 4: at all. I finally opened my eyes and these checks,

1061
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 4: you know, with tattoos, and they were playing you know,

1062
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 4: this stuff that was like loud. You know, certainly give

1063
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 4: them credit for that, but I didn't get it. So

1064
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 4: I didn't have no interest in signing them. And actually

1065
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 4: I don't think they even signed to another lady.

1066
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: I was going to say, who they wind up being.

1067
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 4: I don't think they signed. So yeah, no, I used

1068
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 4: that approach. I think that's that's the one. And it

1069
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 4: got harder and harder because you know, like when MTV

1070
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 4: he came along, and like we talked about before, you

1071
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 4: see these guys dancing like wizards and uh, you know

1072
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 4: that that all of a sudden people started listening with

1073
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 4: their eyes and that was a whole other groove.

1074
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: You know, it should be it should be noted, especially

1075
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:31,560
Speaker 1: for our listeners that aren't that familiar. You kind of

1076
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: were the not the impetus, but uh, a lot of

1077
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: those promotional videos for our listeners out there. If your

1078
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: band had international hits and they weren't able to travel

1079
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: to certain countries at the at the snap of you know,

1080
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 1: in a snap and get there immediately, that was the

1081
01:02:53,280 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 1: initial reasons why promotional performances were used for those artists.

1082
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: So say, if the Lonely Bull or Taste of Honey

1083
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: is is really hidden in Chili or or or in

1084
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: Japan and you can't get there immediately to you know,

1085
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 1: to tour, you would send a promotional clip of you playing, uh,

1086
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: and then they would play them on these particular shows.

1087
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: Hence the idea of early videos. But your your performance

1088
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: videos at least you know, all the ones that I

1089
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: that I binged on on YouTube, they had concepts to them,

1090
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: like you it's kind of the music video.

1091
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 4: Well, you got to think it through. You can't just

1092
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 4: throw something in there. You know, we've had an artist

1093
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 4: that didn't want to do music videos. There was Joe Jackson,

1094
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 4: who had the number one record, you know, and not

1095
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 4: a particularly good looking guy. Or he couldn't dance, and

1096
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 4: he couldn't you know, didn't have his interesting though lucky

1097
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 4: come on, I'm saying that probably from him, from his

1098
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 4: point of view, you know, I think, and he just

1099
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 4: didn't think it would be appropriate for him to do

1100
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 4: a music video, which she never did so and then

1101
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 4: you got, you know, artists like Janet Jackson who like

1102
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 4: she had it, you know, she didn't get by on

1103
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 4: on Michael's talent. Janet had something, you know, she was

1104
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 4: she had her own magic. And it seems like these

1105
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 4: these artists that could dance had an upper hand because

1106
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 4: if he could dance really well, they could swing. They

1107
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 4: always put these songs in the in the proper, proper groove,

1108
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 4: and they always made you feel good, you know.

1109
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: You know now now that I think about it, even

1110
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: beyond the Tijuana Brass videos and whatnot, your videos for it,

1111
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:01,040
Speaker 1: particularly when not you know, when I was coming up

1112
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: as a teenager, you know, BT was playing the mess

1113
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: out of keep your Eye on Me and and with Diamonds.

1114
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: It's weird, though I love the fact that I wonder

1115
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 1: now that, as an adult, was it important to you

1116
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 1: to have such a heavy anti drug message, Because even

1117
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 1: with keep your eye on Me, with the plane going

1118
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: by and just kind.

1119
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 4: Of an ugly thing right there that happened, you know.

1120
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I know, but like it actually, and

1121
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: even in the Diamonds video, some some stony kid comes

1122
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: up to you and You're like, just say no to drugs, kid,

1123
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: And I'm like, were you imagining that, Like some thirteen

1124
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: year old kid in Philadelphia is looking like, okay, herb,

1125
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: I'll just say no.

1126
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 3: He told me to stop smoking outside just an hour ago.

1127
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 3: Oh god he did, he did?

1128
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1129
01:05:58,160 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 4: No.

1130
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: But my point was that watching a string of your videos,

1131
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: they kind of pressed pushed the envelope, even though you

1132
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 1: did the putting on the Ritz video, which I think

1133
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: was like a one camera.

1134
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 4: Take camera one at six takes, but one camera.

1135
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 1: So are these ideas coming from you that, like I know,

1136
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:21,479
Speaker 1: you're saying that, you know, it shouldn't be visuals should

1137
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: be audio like the the the musicality should give you goosebumps.

1138
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: And Matt's what sells you, which I agree with you,

1139
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: But you can't also discount the fact that you've kind

1140
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 1: of went the extra miles and a lot of your

1141
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: videos way above what people were going through at that time,

1142
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:47,000
Speaker 1: you know, with with with visuals, like even with the

1143
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: Whipped Cream album cover, like you had to know that

1144
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: visuals play an important role with it. And I can't

1145
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: believe I skipped the whipp Cream album coming.

1146
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 5: Yes, that goes without saying that the Whip Cream Album

1147
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 5: was mighty influence in so many ways.

1148
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he sold six million units and that's the reason

1149
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: why he sold more records the Beatles in nineteen sixties.

1150
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 3: How many units did just the cover self?

1151
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 4: Well, I mean the album sold fourteen million, but I

1152
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 4: mean the cover, it wasn't.

1153
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 3: Hard to get all that whip cream on that girl.

1154
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: Well I'm in the record stores. Was it seen as

1155
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 1: a risk.

1156
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 4: Because well, at the time it seemed risky, but obviously.

1157
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: Looking at it now, it looks like she's wearing a

1158
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: wedding dress.

1159
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, well then she's wearing shaving cream, by the way,

1160
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 4: and she was three months pregnant, by the way, And

1161
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 4: by the way, the sky comes up to me like

1162
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 4: a month and a half after that record was released.

1163
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 4: He says, man, this is the greatest album cover I've

1164
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 4: ever seen. I love the girl, I love the concept,

1165
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 4: the whip cream, blah blah blah. I said, thank you

1166
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 4: so much. What about the music, he says, I haven't

1167
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 4: had a chance to listen to it.

1168
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 3: So that's who is the girl?

1169
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 4: Uh, Dolores Erickson. She was a professional model and she's

1170
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 4: so beautiful. Yeah, she's beautiful, Yes she was.

1171
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: Now now I see where the Ohio players got their

1172
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: inspiration the honey up. Yeah, so I guess the roots

1173
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: need to make it. I'm called sugar, just keeping with

1174
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: sweet snacks.

1175
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 5: I think Stanley Turrentine has the sugar category covered.

1176
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 4: C T.

1177
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:33,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, Sugar can't give us more CTR stories.

1178
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 5: Like Gulamatari is I mean? I mean, wow? Was that

1179
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 5: done at A and M students? Yeah, she's ct I

1180
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 5: stuff was done there.

1181
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 4: Quincy was on an M. Quincy wasn't on c T I.

1182
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, do you mean very early the A M,

1183
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:55,760
Speaker 3: the A N M C T I.

1184
01:08:55,880 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 1: Oh, I guess I can assume that. Uh, because of

1185
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,920
Speaker 1: the proximity of the brothers Johnson and Billy Preston's band

1186
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: and then winding up on A and m Via with

1187
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: Quincy is some sort of and in connection as well.

1188
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 1: But I mean, at what point are you able to

1189
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: kind of back away as the A in Albert and

1190
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 1: Moss and just let it run on its own? Like

1191
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 1: are you driving in the car one day and you

1192
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: hear Strawberry letter twenty three and you're like, oh cool,

1193
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: Oh that's all my label.

1194
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 4: No, we didn't give up. We were always there, you know,

1195
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 4: Jerry and I made the major decisions together. The everyday

1196
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 4: nuts and bolts I was not a part of, but

1197
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 4: the overall brushstroke of the company and the feeling and

1198
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 4: the artists that come came through, Yeah, we were there. No,

1199
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 4: we had Tommy Lapumo was producing records for us. It

1200
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 4: was you know, got his start with us.

1201
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: And I was going to say, who was the Did

1202
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 1: you guys have a house system where you had your

1203
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: house producers and your house engineers to engineer that sound.

1204
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had our own recording facilities, so you know

1205
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 4: we made those state of the art, the best equipment

1206
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 4: and great acoustics, and you know, like I had, like

1207
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 4: I said, I had that experience at RCA Victor that

1208
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 4: the studio was cold. So I was very intent on

1209
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 4: making our recording facility these very user friendly colors and feel.

1210
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 4: I think when you walk into a studio, like the

1211
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 4: studio we're in right now, you know, you know darn

1212
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 4: well the sound is good in here. It has that feeling.

1213
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:52,919
Speaker 1: And incidentally, we're at Electric Ladies Studios in New York City,

1214
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 1: the House of Hendrick.

1215
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,799
Speaker 4: So we wanted to make sure if we had that vibe,

1216
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 4: and I think the art appreciate that. In Studio B,

1217
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 4: I put in this huge crystal, like h eight hundred

1218
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 4: pound crystal embedded in there in the wall, and a

1219
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 4: lot of artists would come in there and and like.

1220
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 5: Uh, it's still there, Well, well it's he took his.

1221
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: I took them.

1222
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:21,680
Speaker 4: I took the monster out and.

1223
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 3: They replaced they they put a different one in there.

1224
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 4: Yeah okay, yeah, and uh, you know, artists would come

1225
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 4: in there, even if they weren't recording in that particular studio,

1226
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 4: they'd stand in front of that crystal. It would be

1227
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:35,440
Speaker 4: like they're at the Whaling Wall in Jerusalem.

1228
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's energy. When Shaka Khan walked in that

1229
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 1: studio with us, uh, she acknowledged that, you know the

1230
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: energy of the crystal. So I I know that as

1231
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: an artist, there's one particular project I wanted to talk

1232
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: to you about Synchronicity. No, I'm talking about Herb's own career.

1233
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 1: You did an album with Hugh Masekuila. Yeah, really, And

1234
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 1: I believe seventy seven Soul Train is one of my

1235
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 1: all time favorite shows and kind of the thing that

1236
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: I've done as an adult is collect every episode. So

1237
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 1: seeing you kind of make the quote Graceland move before

1238
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 1: Paul Simon did was very interesting, especially in nineteen seventy

1239
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: seven when people's eyes and you know, you had South

1240
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: African artists and you know, kind of world artists with

1241
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 1: you on this project. What was your intent? Was your

1242
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 1: intent to bring attention to or relief to those artists

1243
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: from South Africa?

1244
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 4: That not really? You know, I just liked I liked Hugh.

1245
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 4: I liked the way he played, and when we talked,

1246
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 4: he felt that the music I was making was kind

1247
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 4: of similar to the groove of what they do, you know,

1248
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 4: not not necessarily all the rhythm stuff, but that there

1249
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:10,720
Speaker 4: was a compatible sound. And so we recorded together and

1250
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 4: I think that that one record we did, man, I

1251
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 4: think is great. Uh Skochian, Yeah, it's it's it happens man,

1252
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 4: and there's you know, we had great musicians.

1253
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:22,879
Speaker 1: Uh.

1254
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 4: And and let Umboolu was singing in the background with

1255
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 4: my wife Lonnie. And I had this great guitar player

1256
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 4: from the Caribbean, Freddie, who was you know, a groove machine,

1257
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 4: and a couple of the guitar buts. I can't think

1258
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 4: of their names right now, but Freddie used to every

1259
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 4: morning I'd come in when we were doing the album.

1260
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 4: I said, Freddy, how you feeling? He'd see everything is everything?

1261
01:13:57,680 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 4: Say that every day? Uh? But I know I loved

1262
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 4: working with you. We traveled, we did concerts together and

1263
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 4: had a great time. It was all always you know, fresh,

1264
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 4: it was always lively.

1265
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: You did one studio album, one live album.

1266
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 4: We did exactly that.

1267
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1268
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, studio album came first, and we did we recorded

1269
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,759
Speaker 4: our concerts and they're both good. They're both good albums.

1270
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 4: And some unusual players. Guang Wa from Butswana was playing

1271
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 4: trombone and man, this guy sounded like a wild element

1272
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:36,680
Speaker 4: elephant and he just had a whole different concept for

1273
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 4: playing jazz. So it was really it was fun playing

1274
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 4: with them. I enjoyed it.

1275
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: I guess I'd be remiss if we didn't mention also

1276
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 1: Billy Preston recording for the label who of course you

1277
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,200
Speaker 1: know Steve and I are are We can go on

1278
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 1: and on about the artists that have been on the label.

1279
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm also forgetting that this Max Pistols at one point,

1280
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: and I want to know, I do want to know

1281
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 1: what that week was like. Uh, but who are your

1282
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: just in your general you're you're, you're, you're starting five?

1283
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 1: Who were the five artists that you're like, I'm so

1284
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: proud that I've had them on the label.

1285
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 4: I'll tell you who comes to mind first is Kat Stevens.

1286
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 1: A little bit? What about Cat was just.

1287
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 4: A real talent. I mean he just had he oosed talent.

1288
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 4: He was him and a guitar, his passion, he was

1289
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 4: something special. Of course, the the uh, the police, those

1290
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 4: those three guys far I mean one, two, three, It

1291
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,799
Speaker 4: sounded like seven eight guys army. Yeah. And I remember

1292
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:52,920
Speaker 4: seeing it at the Whiskey you Go Go in l

1293
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 4: A and thinking, wow, that's a good sound. And then

1294
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 4: Sting was jumping around the stage like he was on

1295
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 4: a pogo stick. And they were all fine musicians, really

1296
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:09,440
Speaker 4: good musicians. And of course when Sting went off by himself.

1297
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 4: You know, that was a whole other dimension because Sting

1298
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 4: is a is a brilliant guy and a very sensitive,

1299
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 4: emotional and good guy. You know, so he would be

1300
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 4: one Let's see, of course, Ser'sio Mendez and Brazil sixty

1301
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:29,559
Speaker 4: six of course, and Burt Backrack and Janet Jackson. Of course,

1302
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 4: There's so many artists that it'd be hard to nail

1303
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 4: down my top Wheeze.

1304
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 3: Right, Squeeze would be probably in the top five. I'm

1305
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:46,839
Speaker 3: I'm I'm being I'm.

1306
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: Trying to make it. He's Suez fan, big Squeeze fan. Yeah, okay,

1307
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 1: but uh and no, there's Super Tramped. There was Frampton,

1308
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: there was.

1309
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, well Frampton is another guy. Man. This guy, you know,

1310
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 4: he was really a good looking kid. When you know

1311
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 4: he recorded Oh Baby, I Love You right that thing.

1312
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 4: But he was one hell of a good guitar player.

1313
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 4: The guy could really play, and then you know he

1314
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 4: had that look and he was a really good artist

1315
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,799
Speaker 4: and a gentleman. I mean, I tried to surround myself

1316
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 4: with artists that really had a nice vibe. I can't.

1317
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 4: I couldn't hang with the sex miristles. I mean, that

1318
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 4: was just something that was going against my grain?

1319
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 1: Whose idea was it to introduce it? I mean you

1320
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 1: you do acknowledge that they're culturally relevant.

1321
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, but.

1322
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:47,400
Speaker 1: You know whose idea was it to sign them? And

1323
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 1: whose idea was it to drop them two weeks later?

1324
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 4: Well it was I guess that came out of the

1325
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 4: office in London. But uh, the.

1326
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: Like, did you do? You? Are you? Because I can't

1327
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,480
Speaker 1: think of any artists that you have that have been controversial?

1328
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 1: But did you not see that the controversy of offending

1329
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: the world could be a thing that can also move

1330
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,600
Speaker 1: units and as long as long as they're talking about this,

1331
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 1: that's all that is.

1332
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 4: No, I didn't care about that stuff. It's uh. I

1333
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 4: didn't like the energy that they brought to our lot.

1334
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:24,439
Speaker 4: To tell you the truth, I passed that on. But

1335
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,760
Speaker 4: no I didn't. I don't. I don't get that that

1336
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 4: that that doesn't work for me.

1337
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's crazy. Has there any been an artist

1338
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 1: that you were in pursuit of that you almost had?

1339
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1340
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 1: That who? Who's like? Your your three regrets? Like, I

1341
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:41,639
Speaker 1: really wish I had them more?

1342
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 4: Well, the number one would be the Beatles.

1343
01:18:44,400 --> 01:18:47,719
Speaker 1: You had a chance to sign the Beatles ship. Yeah,

1344
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: you can say that and I'll say it to ship.

1345
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:52,639
Speaker 4: Okay. Yeah, well, you know everyone had a chance because

1346
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 4: they were like going around to U get some distribution

1347
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 4: deal and blah blah blah. So anyways, I don't know

1348
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:03,760
Speaker 4: if we had a door into getting them, but yeah,

1349
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:08,200
Speaker 4: I think they were available around that time we started. Okay,

1350
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 4: so yeah, Prince, what I heard those STAPs? I said, man,

1351
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 4: let's sign this guy. There is something happening here. And

1352
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 4: my partner had lunch with him and his manager and

1353
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:30,520
Speaker 4: he told me that he was like, didn't have any charisma,

1354
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 4: that he was very quiet and very reserved. He didn't think.

1355
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden, you know, people were offering

1356
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 4: them all sorts of money, and Warner Brothers offered him,

1357
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 4: you know, eight zillion dollars. So we passed on them.

1358
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,599
Speaker 4: But I knew this guy was going to be an artist.

1359
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: He was an artist, wow, based on charisma, because I

1360
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: would think that if you're eccentric, when you see eccentric artists,

1361
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 1: then Matt to me is the sign of they're going

1362
01:19:57,880 --> 01:19:59,880
Speaker 1: to make it. Because I don't know any artists that's

1363
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,520
Speaker 1: just all that combative. Do you show me a compatible,

1364
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 1: friendly artist, I'll show you someone that's not at the

1365
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 1: top of the.

1366
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I agree with you. But you know, the

1367
01:20:09,760 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 4: people were throwing around these big companies, big corporations. You know,

1368
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:15,680
Speaker 4: we were just a we were just a partnership. And

1369
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 4: you throw around a couple million bucks to an artist

1370
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 4: and you make a mistake.

1371
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:20,840
Speaker 3: Hey, your entry.

1372
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 4: You couldn't be in trouble.

1373
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 1: So that was monst You have a chance.

1374
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 4: With h Well, I think most of the other artists

1375
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:36,160
Speaker 4: all worked out. You know, we had some great jazz artists.

1376
01:20:36,200 --> 01:20:42,559
Speaker 4: Stan Getz recorded for us, Paul Desmond, Jerry Mulligan, Willie Bobo.

1377
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 4: Of course, Wes Montgomery was on CTI West was you know,

1378
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 4: he was he was something special. You know that that

1379
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:55,599
Speaker 4: sound of his you know, I thought it was like, wow,

1380
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 4: what a magical sound.

1381
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1382
01:20:57,640 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 4: I was doing this television show and Wes was on

1383
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 4: the show. I was the MC and I was waiting

1384
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 4: for Wes to come in for the rehearsal, wondering you

1385
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:12,400
Speaker 4: know what he used as a setup. And he came

1386
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 4: in from with a little Fender guitar amplifier that was all.

1387
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 4: It was small, it was, you know, filled with cobwebs.

1388
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 4: In the back was dusty and funky, and he plugged

1389
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:28,639
Speaker 4: in and banged. There was there, and there was that

1390
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,679
Speaker 4: magic sound. So there there again. You know, it's it's

1391
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 4: all the sound comes from inside the artist. It's not

1392
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 4: the instrument. It's that sound that they want to hear,

1393
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:43,679
Speaker 4: and that's the sound comes out.

1394
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: Okay. So in eighty when you well, seventy nine when

1395
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 1: you did Rise, which you know brought you back to

1396
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: the forefront, were you surprised at all by the success

1397
01:21:58,320 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 1: of it? And in the reception?

1398
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 4: This ribes was recorded live in the studio. I played

1399
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:08,559
Speaker 4: the horn if we're doing the track, and.

1400
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm laughing at one reason. I'm sorry whenever

1401
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 1: that breakdown happens. Yeah, I'm a DJ and my monitor

1402
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:20,680
Speaker 1: speakers allowed as hell, So of course you know when

1403
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: that breakdown happens and you guys are like laughing at

1404
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:24,600
Speaker 1: each other in the background.

1405
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:25,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was at it. Obviously.

1406
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: I always look at my MC guy because I think

1407
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,680
Speaker 1: he's I'm always looking at him like, why are you

1408
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 1: talking on the microphone, and he's like, that's not me,

1409
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 1: that's the record. And it happens every time I spend

1410
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:38,760
Speaker 1: that record.

1411
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:41,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's a really, really good record, and when

1412
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:46,799
Speaker 4: I was I think it was the third take listening

1413
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 4: to the playback in the studio and I got goosebumps.

1414
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 4: I said, Wow, this could be a big record. This

1415
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:58,320
Speaker 4: has something. And I remember walking up behind Julius Wector,

1416
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 4: who was playing marimba on on the cut. I said, ma'am,

1417
01:23:02,120 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 4: what do you think, Julius? He says, I don't dig it.

1418
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 4: What's wrong with it? Yeah? You know he said, you

1419
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:13,600
Speaker 4: know he couldn't handle that boom boom boom forward to

1420
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 4: the floor. You know that bothered him.

1421
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 1: He thought you were trying to go too much disco.

1422
01:23:18,920 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 4: I don't think you know. What I learned from Sam

1423
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 4: Cook was to be an audience to my music. I

1424
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:29,080
Speaker 4: don't when I'm recording, I don't listen to the trumpet player.

1425
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:32,120
Speaker 4: I don't listen to anything but the overall feeling. If

1426
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 4: the overall feeling strikes me, I'm in. If the overall

1427
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:39,559
Speaker 4: feeling doesn't strike me, I try to do something to

1428
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 4: make it work. But Rise had that feeling, I don't know,

1429
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:46,719
Speaker 4: there was something about it. And you know it didn't

1430
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:51,640
Speaker 4: start out like that. My nephew Randy Badass out but

1431
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:52,679
Speaker 4: wrote wrote it.

1432
01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: With the drummer.

1433
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 4: Right, No, he's not a musician. He wrote it with

1434
01:23:56,800 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 4: the with the Andy Armor and they had but they

1435
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 4: wanted to do it as a disco. It was originally

1436
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 4: at one hundred and twenty beats per minute, and I said,

1437
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 4: wait a minute, no man, this is a nice melody.

1438
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 4: Let's slow it down. And we finally slowed it down

1439
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 4: to one hundred beets per minute. I said, you know,

1440
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,439
Speaker 4: every now and then people want to dance together. Maybe

1441
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:18,200
Speaker 4: this is the chance because I just didn't want to

1442
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:19,200
Speaker 4: make disco music.

1443
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,200
Speaker 1: Very wise moves on your choice. How did you feel

1444
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: about Biggie's resurgence of it?

1445
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:27,000
Speaker 4: And well, you know, obviously it's a good record and

1446
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 4: it was a huge record. But I'm not crazy about

1447
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,920
Speaker 4: people taking your stuff. I think it just shows that

1448
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 4: they don't have the creative to do something themselves.

1449
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, yeah, I mean there's a generation

1450
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 1: of Yeah, absolutely, Rise will now last forever in people's memories.

1451
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I love it. I love the checks that

1452
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:52,680
Speaker 4: come in from that too.

1453
01:24:56,040 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: I got I gotta say that of your entire song book,

1454
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:06,280
Speaker 1: Root one on one is I will probably go on

1455
01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:09,720
Speaker 1: record and say, and I've never done this, this is

1456
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 1: probably my favorite song of all time.

1457
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,120
Speaker 4: All right, I'll give you some other ones to think about.

1458
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 4: But the Root one one is good. I did that

1459
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 4: album with one Carlos Calderone, famous Spanish composer, arranger overall

1460
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 4: good guy. Rest is soul be passed about four or

1461
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 4: five years ago and Jose Quintana, the two of us

1462
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 4: produced that record and Root one on one is definitely

1463
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:40,160
Speaker 4: a good one. But if you listen to other a

1464
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 4: couple other ones on there.

1465
01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 1: Well, I love the whole Fandango record, Yeah, the Fandemic.

1466
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:48,720
Speaker 1: I felt that was a return to your element, did

1467
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:52,719
Speaker 1: you because the groove based stuff of the Beyond record,

1468
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 1: and I forgot what came out in eighty one, the

1469
01:25:55,840 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 1: album after Beyond, but it was Fandango was sort of

1470
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 1: like a return to form where.

1471
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, no it was. It was a good one and

1472
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 4: one on one it is one of my favorite songs

1473
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,960
Speaker 4: as well. But I was all set to do a

1474
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,800
Speaker 4: world tour with that and then I got hepatitis and

1475
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 4: that I'll put the cabbage on it, so that that

1476
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:22,800
Speaker 4: record didn't receive the attention that it could have. But

1477
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:24,880
Speaker 4: there are some other records that I did. I think

1478
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 4: I don't have to think about that since you've labeled

1479
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 4: that as your favorite.

1480
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's just for me.

1481
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 5: It's it's saying he knows about fifty five million songs,

1482
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:39,639
Speaker 5: so that's saying something.

1483
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you the record we were doing last

1484
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 4: night that we you know, didn't really do the whole thing,

1485
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,599
Speaker 4: but rotation. If you listen to that, rotation, rotations are

1486
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,000
Speaker 4: really good. It's a good feel.

1487
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 1: Well, all your stuff is good feeling. Actually, well, there

1488
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:59,160
Speaker 1: was an album you made in eighty five that, uh,

1489
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:05,600
Speaker 1: all I know is that when you promoted it on

1490
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:12,640
Speaker 1: Soul Train, you had a young Lenny Kravitz on keyboards

1491
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: back when he was a Romeo Blue.

1492
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:16,600
Speaker 4: Yeah. That's how I knew him as Romeo. He was

1493
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 4: used to rehearsing our studio CE and he was introduced

1494
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 4: to me as Romeo and I thought of him as

1495
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,320
Speaker 4: Romeo talented guy.

1496
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 1: Was he ever a part of your touring grew or

1497
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:32,080
Speaker 1: he just did that promotional appearance on soul He just

1498
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 1: did that, Okay, Because I was going to say when

1499
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:39,640
Speaker 1: when the drummer introduced himself, he said, yeah, not badass,

1500
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait, did he just curse on

1501
01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 1: Soul Train? So that's why I was trying to make

1502
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 1: the connection. Oh yeah, if your drummer was badass with

1503
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 1: jam and Lewis and keep your Eye on Me.

1504
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:55,000
Speaker 4: Well, those guys were really original. They really had a

1505
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:58,120
Speaker 4: flair for picking out the right song, the right grooves,

1506
01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 4: and and I flew to Minneapolis to record. They said

1507
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:05,960
Speaker 4: they had this great song for me. And they played

1508
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 4: the song and I said, well, what's the title? They said, Sausage.

1509
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:17,439
Speaker 4: I said, no, man, I don't think so. Yeah, well

1510
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 4: that was that was keep your Eye on Me. That

1511
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:26,320
Speaker 4: was the original title they had, was sausage. But these

1512
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 4: guys are good, you know, they're they have a great

1513
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 4: sense of humor. I was doing this interview for one

1514
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 4: of the news channels and the phone was ringing rang

1515
01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 4: in the studio, and Jimmy picked it up, said, Sinatra

1516
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 4: will tell him. I'm busy. I'm working with herb Robert

1517
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:48,439
Speaker 4: right now. Will you tell Sinatra call him back?

1518
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:54,560
Speaker 1: You know? Oh man, that was kind of cool. I

1519
01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 1: also love the way that you guys kind of did

1520
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:02,240
Speaker 1: the Janet Jackson trick on the Diamonds video.

1521
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1522
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 1: I always wanted to know. I guess I would have

1523
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: to ask her how easy is it to say no

1524
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 1: to your boss.

1525
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,080
Speaker 4: I think she was doing she was someplace else in

1526
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 4: the world. But all right, it all worked out. It

1527
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 4: was kind of a fun thing to do.

1528
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:17,679
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it because I was waiting for it, because

1529
01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:20,599
Speaker 1: I swore that was her in the limousine, the way

1530
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:21,320
Speaker 1: that was lit.

1531
01:29:21,479 --> 01:29:23,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, the little kid that it.

1532
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Turns out to be an eight year old kid. So

1533
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 1: in eighty okay, in eighty nine, you guys decided to

1534
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:37,000
Speaker 1: sell the label. At what point, like, how did you well?

1535
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 4: I was into selling a forty nine percent, That's what

1536
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 4: I wanted to do, and then keep fifty one and

1537
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,760
Speaker 4: keep control of the company. They kept upping the ante,

1538
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 4: you know, and it reached a point where I thought,

1539
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 4: maybe it's time. You know, the Internet was coming, the

1540
01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 4: Internet was making noise. I'm not saying that I saw

1541
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 4: what was going to happen with file sharing, but there

1542
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 4: was something about it that said, maybe the time is right.

1543
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:13,639
Speaker 4: So when they finally made this nice offer and they

1544
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 4: wanted to buy the whole company, we agreed. And I'll

1545
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:20,120
Speaker 4: tell you what the interesting part of that whole thing was.

1546
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:22,920
Speaker 4: Jerry and I started the company in nineteen sixty two

1547
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:28,360
Speaker 4: on a handshake we never signed any contract together. Lots

1548
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:31,679
Speaker 4: of millions of dollars went through the doors in various ways,

1549
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:37,360
Speaker 4: and we ended up signing over to Polydor and that

1550
01:30:37,439 --> 01:30:39,759
Speaker 4: was the first time we ever signed a contract together.

1551
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 4: And we concluded with a big hug and Jerry is still

1552
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:47,160
Speaker 4: one of my dear friends.

1553
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah, so you're trying to figure out a

1554
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 1: way for us to remember the company, Steve, Oh no, no, no, anyway, well, her,

1555
01:30:57,320 --> 01:30:59,640
Speaker 1: I thank you very much for sharing a story on

1556
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:01,840
Speaker 1: Quest of Supreme. There's so much.

1557
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:03,760
Speaker 4: There's more, there's more, there's part two.

1558
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, we gotta do a part two. I have one

1559
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 3: more question. Okay, what does your record collection look like?

1560
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:12,519
Speaker 4: It's not very extensive, you know, because are you asking

1561
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 4: for that CTI No, I was curious.

1562
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 3: I'm just curious a man like this, you know, I

1563
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:17,839
Speaker 3: have a few.

1564
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:21,240
Speaker 4: I have some classical music that I like a lot.

1565
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 4: I'm crazy about ravel, you know, Daphnis and Chloe is

1566
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 4: one of the things that I love to listen to

1567
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:30,719
Speaker 4: when I feel a little down. The fourth Movement knocks

1568
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:34,439
Speaker 4: me down, knocks me out, you know. I love Miles

1569
01:31:34,479 --> 01:31:38,719
Speaker 4: like all of the musicians, and Charlie Parker was the guy.

1570
01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 4: He was on another planet. He was doing things that

1571
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:47,880
Speaker 4: will resonate for years to come. I love Paul Desmond.

1572
01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 4: Jerry Mulligan was a dear friend of mine. Stan Getz

1573
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:55,360
Speaker 4: and I were like brothers. Stan was a guy that

1574
01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 4: I really really, really really really had a feel for

1575
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 4: it because he was He always just said I never

1576
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:03,519
Speaker 4: played a note that I didn't mean. You know, I

1577
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:08,519
Speaker 4: love that about musicians. And we were so close, you know.

1578
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 4: He said, do you want he wanted to give me lessons?

1579
01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:14,880
Speaker 4: I said no, I asked him, I said, how about

1580
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 4: giving me some bebop lessons? I never played with Charlie

1581
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 4: Parker and Coltrane and all those guys you played with.

1582
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 4: And he said sure. So I'm in my studio with

1583
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:27,840
Speaker 4: Stan and I said, do you think I should work

1584
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:30,679
Speaker 4: on these two five one chords in every key? Which

1585
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:33,880
Speaker 4: is page one of Berkeley School of Music and all

1586
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:39,439
Speaker 4: the other you know, Manhattan School. That's what they teach,

1587
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:42,759
Speaker 4: you know, that's just basic. Do you think I should

1588
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:45,240
Speaker 4: work on those in all keys, these two five one chords?

1589
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 4: He said, what's that? Which was like a real man.

1590
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:54,160
Speaker 4: These guys didn't think like that. They were playing from

1591
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:57,240
Speaker 4: another point of view. They were looking at music from

1592
01:32:57,280 --> 01:33:00,800
Speaker 4: another angle, and you know, the music's tried to break

1593
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 4: it down what these great jazz musicians were doing. Uh

1594
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:11,559
Speaker 4: So it was let's see, there's another part of that

1595
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:13,640
Speaker 4: Stan story. I wanted to tell you. Oh yeah, yeah, so,

1596
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:16,600
Speaker 4: I mean yeah, So he gave me some lessons and

1597
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 4: we talked about jazz. And here's a pro. I said,

1598
01:33:21,479 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 4: tell me that you what do you what are you

1599
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:25,160
Speaker 4: thinking about when you're playing? Because I did this record

1600
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:29,040
Speaker 4: with him. There's a beautiful record I did called a

1601
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:33,120
Speaker 4: Pascionado and one of them the songs was a waltz

1602
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 4: for Stan and he played this thing. It was gorgeous,

1603
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:40,960
Speaker 4: and I said, what are you thinking about when you're

1604
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:45,519
Speaker 4: playing something like that? He says, well, I think about

1605
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 4: that I in front of the whaling wall in Jerusalem

1606
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 4: and I'm dobvining. I mean, this guy was. He was fabulous, man,

1607
01:33:57,040 --> 01:34:00,640
Speaker 4: he was. He had an extraordinary life. He was you know,

1608
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:04,320
Speaker 4: went through all the drugs imaginable to man, and then

1609
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 4: the last four years of his life he was on

1610
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:11,600
Speaker 4: macrobiotics and he had cancer and you know, so he

1611
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:13,920
Speaker 4: had a kind of a split personality when it was

1612
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 4: all when he was on drugs and one of the

1613
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:19,920
Speaker 4: musicians that it was either al Coon or Zoot Siems

1614
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:22,360
Speaker 4: when they asked him, you know what was stand like?

1615
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 4: And he said he was the best bunch of guys

1616
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 4: I've ever met. But I loved him and he was beautiful.

1617
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:34,240
Speaker 4: He was a real, real good friend.

1618
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 1: Well, okay, in closing, we had to say that you

1619
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:41,240
Speaker 1: have a new album out, yeah, music Volume one, I believe,

1620
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:42,719
Speaker 1: and hopefully there will be.

1621
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:43,920
Speaker 3: A Christmas album coming to you.

1622
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 4: Well, there is a Christmas album. It's called The Christmas

1623
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 4: Wish and it's with orchestra and choir and it's it's

1624
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:51,360
Speaker 4: darn good, if I must say so myself.

1625
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 1: Well, you're her a man, the best come to of

1626
01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 1: all time.

1627
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 4: Well, you know something, I think, if you don't believe

1628
01:34:57,240 --> 01:35:00,000
Speaker 4: in what you're doing, why should you anyone else believe

1629
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:00,800
Speaker 4: even what you're doing?

1630
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:05,080
Speaker 1: Those are wise words. Well on behalf of Sugar, Steve

1631
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:10,040
Speaker 1: and the Missing Alumni and Court Love Supreme. This is

1632
01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:14,080
Speaker 1: Quest Love signing you off. Thank you for listening, Thank

1633
01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 1: you her Palfer Pleasure again, thank you for coming to

1634
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:19,400
Speaker 1: the show. And I will see you guys on the

1635
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:25,120
Speaker 1: next go round only or on Pandora quest Love Supreme

1636
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:29,040
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced

1637
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 1: by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1638
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

1639
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.