Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to everywhere. I'm your host, Daniel Scheffler.
Speaker 1: The commandment for the week is thou shalt seek the unexpected.
Speaker 1: Can you guess what the United Nations deems to be
Speaker 1: the most visited destination on the planet. And if we
Speaker 1: asked a handful of strangers on the street right now
Speaker 1: where they would most like to go, what do you
Speaker 1: think they'll say? Of course it's France, and it's Paris,
Speaker 1: for better or for worse. I lived in Paris too
Speaker 1: incredible yet tragically painful years. I speak French as mother's French,
Speaker 1: blooded from the south of France. But still I was
Speaker 1: always but a stranger in Paris, and when I wasn't looking,
Speaker 1: it was rolling its eyes at me. What that city
Speaker 1: does so well, so formidably and provocatively well, is lift
Speaker 1: the chalice of culture above the skies. Of course, it's
Speaker 1: too high for piffling earthlings to climb to, but also
Speaker 1: just far enough for everyone to want to stretch out
Speaker 1: and tingle in its moleste. Paris concedes with no allowance
Speaker 1: for disagreement, to be the possessor of all things culture.
Speaker 1: So if culture is the full spectrum of learned human
Speaker 1: behavioral patterns. Then yes, Paris has given us the official blueprints.
Speaker 1: Paris is a city that likes to go to sleep
Speaker 1: a little too late, only to wake up behind time,
Speaker 1: perhaps indicative of the ever controversial thirty five hour work
Speaker 1: week and those long lunchers enjoyed not only by the
Speaker 1: blue collars but by the white and gold ones too.
Speaker 1: Mornings are spent with pastries in the blur of cigarette smoke.
Speaker 1: As one of the only cities in the world where
Speaker 1: smoking is still the avocation of all the city inspires
Speaker 1: puffers to toke double time and offers the perfect gift
Speaker 1: to non smokers, who have to scream fumes from their
Speaker 1: mouths too. I bestow upon the a lifelong addiction set
Speaker 1: in prisire the same way that animals have learned behavior,
Speaker 1: Parisians possess something equally Pavlovian. They have it passed over
Speaker 1: from generations of over finessed Paris grandmothers in the sixteenth
Speaker 1: and overfed Paris grandfathers in the thirteen If you watch
Speaker 1: Julie Delpi's film Two Days in New York, you'll get
Speaker 1: a sliver of what flavored French relatives could be. Because
Speaker 1: Paris works like this, you hardly eat as the helpings
Speaker 1: on minuscule you day, drink any wine you can find,
Speaker 1: and inappropriately sexual behavior will confuse you. And if you
Speaker 1: can fit in as much swearing as possible into every conversation,
Speaker 1: m fat Parisians will also teach you how to keep
Speaker 1: a watchful eye on all fashioned disasters whilst drinking extra
Speaker 1: scalded bitter coffee. These are just some of the markings
Speaker 1: of a good Parisian, and it's somehow keeps them sane.
Speaker 1: And speaking of coffee, searching for coffee in a standard
Speaker 1: everyday Paris cafe is like searching for, I don't know,
Speaker 1: a giraffe under the Atlantic Ocean. Of course, you can
Speaker 1: attempt this armed with a wheel of a dockey basket
Speaker 1: cheese to sink you down, but you'll realize is it's
Speaker 1: a total waste of precious Parisian time, because all they
Speaker 1: have is time. The French belief that dark roasting all
Speaker 1: let's call it what it is, five hundred degree brule
Speaker 1: makes it stronger and by such implication, tastier. Well, here
Speaker 1: are some Paris coffee terminology, just to entertain you. And
Speaker 1: Noisette sounding so wonderfully innocent is the stomach lining attack
Speaker 1: with a joan of arc fury. A cafe creme might
Speaker 1: thrill you with that fluffy, handsome sounding name. What what
Speaker 1: you'll get is extra extra, one more time with feeling
Speaker 1: extra pasteurized milk that will last for a lifetime, plus
Speaker 1: a tiny spot of again burnt bitter soult coffee. But
Speaker 1: don't bother with American drip coffee. The open jawned dismay
Speaker 1: from your ever friendly waitress. Will you know that even
Speaker 1: if you do get the desired format, it will be
Speaker 1: more than disappointing and potentially rigged with some incendiary device.
Speaker 1: So what makes the French believe that they have the
Speaker 1: world's greatest coffee? Oh? Yes, the use of a French
Speaker 1: press the worst way in the whole world to make
Speaker 1: coffee unless you enjoy a strong acidity that's thin in
Speaker 1: flavor and thick engrossness. Of course, the open display for
Speaker 1: pollution and car fumes to come and sit on the
Speaker 1: too old for use beans and invariably cheap machines may
Speaker 1: add to the dismay that you're feeling by now. So
Speaker 1: where did the great writers and artists get their caffeine rush?
Speaker 1: If Paris cannot deliver a decent roast or bean anyway,
Speaker 1: well maybe at home, or maybe they got their kicks
Speaker 1: from Opium, the annoying beautiful scenery and architecture, or the
Speaker 1: almost lawless people watching everywhere, or quite simply from the
Speaker 1: most obvious, the free flowing alcohol, and once night falls,
Speaker 1: it's in full gush. The city is no longer shared
Speaker 1: with Voltaire, Hemmingway or even Horsom. They have finally retired
Speaker 1: their postulations and cups of wine and decided to rest
Speaker 1: peacefully somewhere away from the dirty streets and extra extra
Speaker 1: small cafe tables. Paris has always stood in this messiness
Speaker 1: of monarchy, empire republic revolutions, both equally inspiring. The city
Speaker 1: hosts the snobbyist suburbs on the planet as well as
Speaker 1: the trashiest ones. The bohemians have tried to own their
Speaker 1: city with underground artists, squats and circuses, but the conservatives
Speaker 1: never let go of their group on the official Paris representation,
Speaker 1: thus giving way to the city of dichotomy, beautiful and
Speaker 1: ugly in an umberto eco sense where both are needed
Speaker 1: for the other to exist. So where has this muddle
Speaker 1: of disorder left our city of love? The right Bank
Speaker 1: is no longer in the opposition with the Left Bank.
Speaker 1: The suburbs and the inner city are now the holders
Speaker 1: of gloves, as they be labor and pulverize the visions
Speaker 1: of a new greatest city. As the throb of Paris
Speaker 1: romance continues to give the city the highest number of
Speaker 1: tourists of any destination, a different perspective of love is imminent.
Speaker 1: The bolted locks I see on the bridges represent an
Speaker 1: almost desperate attempt to hold onto love's embrace. But Paris
Speaker 1: feels differently about love. The same way that Paris residents
Speaker 1: want the locks to be removed, this that he wants
Speaker 1: to feel free again, free from your love, free to
Speaker 1: find a new love. Well, I found some of that
Speaker 1: at the Perla Chaise. As the evening wanted to commence,
Speaker 1: my metro slowly found its way underneath these filthy streets
Speaker 1: to the tourists cemetery so famed, so profound, that it
Speaker 1: had become a reason for millions of people all over
Speaker 1: the world to squash themselves into aeroplanes, tidy themselves onto
Speaker 1: boats and cars, and line themselves up to trains to
Speaker 1: get to this place. The symmetry of all cemeteries hosts
Speaker 1: for me the most important musician to ever live, hence
Speaker 1: why I braved the tourist masses. But apparently I'm not
Speaker 1: alone in my love for the great Lizard King. For
Speaker 1: most fans, the music will never be over. My determined
Speaker 1: stride through the crowded cemetery is completely forgotten, as my
Speaker 1: sole focus is on finding my gym. Paris was given
Speaker 1: to Morrison, whether they wanted him or not, and I,
Speaker 1: the little Paris Virgin, proudly stayed in his ex hotel
Speaker 1: and the Left Bank. That's was when I arrived in
Speaker 1: Paris for the first time, so it may have been
Speaker 1: a hotel manager's version of tourist trapping. So finding the
Speaker 1: grave is easy. I just followed the smell of Jack
Speaker 1: Daniels and cigarettes. Jim is, of course waiting for me,
Speaker 1: as he always will be. The stone on his grave
Speaker 1: screams at me. Cataton dai mona s tos Google Translate
Speaker 1: tells me, with no questions asked that it means true
Speaker 1: to his own spirit. Unsatisfied, I text the Greek friend
Speaker 1: who says it's more like according to his own demon.
Speaker 1: I laugh, my non Parisian laugh that makes everyone stare
Speaker 1: at me, and then the sky opens and peas all
Speaker 1: over me like Jim would have done Paris. Paris. You're
Speaker 1: always according to your own demon. So if you insist
Speaker 1: and you have to go to Paris, I won't stop here.
Speaker 1: But perhaps I'd love for you to find the most
Speaker 1: unexpected things about it, because that's where the magic lies.
Speaker 1: When a yuppy French stair master in the gym after
Speaker 1: twenty minutes congratulated me for climbing the Turi fell, I
Speaker 1: had to pause and think, why have I always wanted
Speaker 1: to avoid the actual site of this iron lattice Paris Tower?
Speaker 1: Could it perhaps be that flurry of begett carrying barret
Speaker 1: wearing tourists that swarm around it as if it was
Speaker 1: the lighthouse of culture? Perhaps? Yes, The tower held the
Speaker 1: tallest man made structure in the world title for forty
Speaker 1: one years until the Chrysler Building in New York had
Speaker 1: to messens and required an easy to apply sixty tons
Speaker 1: of paint every seven years to maintain a shine. So
Speaker 1: what about all this engineered steel, vulgar stature and upkeep
Speaker 1: sweat makes the tower the dernier cree of a city
Speaker 1: so obsessed with haute cultier. Perhaps it is the iconic
Speaker 1: nature of the edifice that has given Paris an arresting stardom,
Speaker 1: unaffected by fame and fortune. Seemingly that is, the city
Speaker 1: has clutched their ownership of all things culturally acceptable or
Speaker 1: culturally permitted, and somehow that gave the city of life.
Speaker 1: It's it's notoriety, but Paris, the sufferer of middle child syndrome,
Speaker 1: did secretly want to appear to the world to be
Speaker 1: greater than, more chic than Voila. The Eiffel Tower worked.
Speaker 1: Its prestigitation undeniably appears at you from every corner of
Speaker 1: the city, when you come out of the dirty metro,
Speaker 1: when you pop your head out the tiny top window
Speaker 1: of your attillier, and even when you wake from sleep
Speaker 1: in one of the many manicured gardens around the city.
Speaker 1: It doesn't smile down at the visitors queuing and snakelike
Speaker 1: formations below. It probably would spit on them if it could.
Speaker 1: But all the same visitors come and marvel at the engineering,
Speaker 1: and Paris loves, oh loves all the attention. But of course,
Speaker 1: my darling Paris will never admit to that. Let's take
Speaker 1: a break to hear from our sponsors, and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back with more travel from everywhere. You've been somewhere,
Speaker 1: What say we go everywhere. Let's dive right in. I
Speaker 1: sort of thought that I knew Italy better than any
Speaker 1: other country, because I have been going every year for
Speaker 1: my whole life. Well it turns out I know nothing.
Speaker 1: Julia in the heel of Italy is undiscovered and still
Speaker 1: feels untouristy and gorgeously unkept. The warm Adriatic Sea, the
Speaker 1: endless amounts of olive trees, and then these white Massadia buildings,
Speaker 1: which are old farmhouses dotted around the landscape. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: here at Borgo Ignasia, a beautiful resort with the owners,
Speaker 1: Mariza mel Bano and her son Aldo. They know the area,
Speaker 1: they've been coming here for decades, and now they've put
Speaker 1: it on the world map, combining a little bit of
Speaker 1: Italian goodness and wellness. Okay, So, as I was saying
Speaker 1: to you, for me, what's interesting is that everyone has
Speaker 1: a reference point for Italy. You say the word Italy
Speaker 1: and people think, maybe it's a car, maybe it's the food,
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the countryside, Maybe it's the way of life.
Speaker 1: The Dolte vida anything like that. But to me, I
Speaker 1: think when you come to Julia, you have to change
Speaker 1: your perception of Italy because it's so different and there's
Speaker 1: something so authentically special about Puglia. Julia doesn't feel to
Speaker 1: me as it's made for tourists. Big parts of Italy
Speaker 1: is created for tourists. Julia feels to me as it's
Speaker 1: created for Italians. For Puliza like it feels like it's
Speaker 1: for people who are from here and understand here and
Speaker 1: their friends and their friends friends. She's the little manic Ilbaroo.
Speaker 1: She's on a storia in persant tourism and with someone
Speaker 1: fortunaty but having that would tourist because we have always
Speaker 1: been rich like this, because we have beautiful towns, wonderful cathedrals,
Speaker 1: Romantic style, Baroque style. But Poulia is becoming more and
Speaker 1: more popular just in the last years, and so we
Speaker 1: are lucky because it seems like something new, but actually
Speaker 1: it's it's our heritage. We have a huge culture, and
Speaker 1: in the past tourists used to stop like in Rome
Speaker 1: or Naples or some parts of Sicily. But now you
Speaker 1: can discover Pulia as well, and you can discover something
Speaker 1: that actually we always have had it's part of our DNA,
Speaker 1: but for people coming from abroad it's something new. So
Speaker 1: we are we're lucky because we have these treasures that
Speaker 1: can be shared. Now, why it's so special to you?
Speaker 1: It's a spiritual plans fearful me. Why how is it
Speaker 1: spiritual for you? Common spirit? A spirit the I mean
Speaker 1: the blind it relaxed when I live in this place,
Speaker 1: I don't know what this not positive to spaity to explain.
Speaker 1: But you're surrounded by lennial trees. Some of these trees
Speaker 1: are like years old. When people arriving with me in
Speaker 1: the Massidia, just when I complain the vi sp it's
Speaker 1: something that you can't explain. But only when you arrive
Speaker 1: here you can feel the energy of the place, and
Speaker 1: it's thanks to these kind of trees which are huge
Speaker 1: and very very old, so you can feel that you
Speaker 1: are in a very special The people sleep very well.
Speaker 1: Not my addiction, my my, my guest. I don't speak here.
Speaker 1: I speak a really well. This is simplestan after the
Speaker 1: one here, the job longer and this started to relax
Speaker 1: the body and the song. The body and body and
Speaker 1: mind can be very relaxed here I feel that you
Speaker 1: feel that I sleep so beautifully. That's where I came
Speaker 1: twice to come sleep again. Yes, tell me a story
Speaker 1: about some experience that you think of all the time
Speaker 1: about Pulia, about your life in Pulia, like something that
Speaker 1: you think about my My life is a bit bit,
Speaker 1: a bit happy. Why tuny I go to vendemia vandem
Speaker 1: is when you harvest grapes when it's younger, when young
Speaker 1: university one that she used to have a lot of
Speaker 1: fun when it was the time of grape harvesting, because
Speaker 1: she used to press the grapes with with with the feet,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, no, no, even a campaign to tell
Speaker 1: Dona Pomodoria pass and the legal lore us. You had
Speaker 1: a lot of fun with their grandfather in the countryside
Speaker 1: and with all the ladies that were working in the
Speaker 1: countryside with tomatoes to make the tomato sauce. The small
Speaker 1: It was very very happy. I had a very happy childhood.
Speaker 1: Here a CampaignOn because countryside was part of her childhood.
Speaker 1: Tell me some pulling wisdom suggests a po policy. They're
Speaker 1: gonna primafy a chi primafi primafied. Yes, that you have
Speaker 1: to do something and after that you can speak about it.
Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just speaking legal course, because a lot of
Speaker 1: people used to just to talk and talk and talk
Speaker 1: without doing nothing. That's the best wisdom I've heard it
Speaker 1: a long time. Ri Let's okay, you have to do
Speaker 1: something and then you can show what you are just
Speaker 1: through what you're doing, not just through words a question.
Speaker 1: I said, yes, serious and concrete soul on that note
Speaker 1: so much so. Here's Marissa's son Aldo, who also trying
Speaker 1: to articulate just what sets Pulia apart from the rest
Speaker 1: of Italy. I like to think about Pulia a little
Speaker 1: bit of you know, how you see it in the
Speaker 1: old movies and not that kind of feel, that kind
Speaker 1: of vibe, and that's what you have here, and it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of still there and still very authentic, and
Speaker 1: you know some of that you have you've lost another
Speaker 1: in other parts of Italy. Um explain that to me
Speaker 1: a little bit more. It's just the the energy of
Speaker 1: of of this land is it's kind of ancient and
Speaker 1: you feel it, you know, when you walk around the
Speaker 1: fields and you look at the trees and you meet
Speaker 1: the people and you just walk around the towns. You know,
Speaker 1: you feel some connection with you know, with with what
Speaker 1: was before. I don't know how to explain it, and
Speaker 1: I think people are people perceived that. And also because
Speaker 1: tourism is only really developed in Pool in the last
Speaker 1: twenty years, most places are not spoiled yet then people
Speaker 1: actually live here. So in a lot of places that
Speaker 1: are more sort of common for international travelers to go,
Speaker 1: you kind of I don't really have the local community anymore.
Speaker 1: While here, if you go to any of the local
Speaker 1: towns in you know, summertime, but even so wintertime, there's
Speaker 1: people there, they live there. You're sharing the same space
Speaker 1: with the local community. In many other places in Italy,
Speaker 1: now you go to a town and you know, maybe
Speaker 1: there's there's a market, but you know it's just there
Speaker 1: for the for the tourists. So that hasn't happened here
Speaker 1: and hopefully will never happen. In fact, this is a
Speaker 1: great moment for us to travel once again to advertising land.
Speaker 1: Will be right back with more everywhere. Welcome once again
Speaker 1: to everywhere. Let's hop back to it. Well, my next interview,
Speaker 1: I'm spending some time with my new friends any Reese
Speaker 1: and Lauren vogel Bound, the hosts of Sava and I
Speaker 1: Hunt radio podcast that digs into how people live, how
Speaker 1: they eat, and most importantly why any Lauren explore the science,
Speaker 1: the history, and the culture of food and drink. Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me on your show, and thank you
Speaker 1: for coming on my show. Yeah, this is fabulous. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad that we finally all managed to be in
Speaker 1: the same virtual room at the same time. Yes, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm in the room with the two of you. Heck, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's working. Okay, I suppose for the generalized record, the
Speaker 1: first thing that I like to ask people is HI,
Speaker 1: who are you? Well? Hi? I m Daniel Scheffler, and
Speaker 1: I have this travel podcast called Everywhere, and it feels
Speaker 1: to me as if it's a conglomeration of my life's work,
Speaker 1: my life's ambitions, my life's feelings and emotions and processes.
Speaker 1: And it feels like it's a collection of travel wisdom
Speaker 1: that was given to me to pass on, challenges that
Speaker 1: was given to me, and then stories of thirty five years.
Speaker 1: So I've managed to put this into a podcast, which
Speaker 1: has been the greatest joy of my life. So that's
Speaker 1: the work me and the personal me, which I think
Speaker 1: these two things I guess into mesh. At this point
Speaker 1: in the personal me is you know, husband to the
Speaker 1: most wonderful patient keyword patient together human that I've ever met.
Speaker 1: Michael and father too, a little dog who's from Puerto Rico.
Speaker 1: Be each dog Ella, who you both know. And I
Speaker 1: was born in South Africa. I'd like to say I
Speaker 1: was born in Africa, bread in Europe, and now choose
Speaker 1: to live in America. So I'm, I guess a person
Speaker 1: of the world. Yeah, and you've made a career out
Speaker 1: of traveling, Like, how how did you get into that?
Speaker 1: What was the line between I love doing this and
Speaker 1: I am going to make this whole planet my mobile office.
Speaker 1: Well I should have asked the two of you, who
Speaker 1: are you too? So can we please because you coming
Speaker 1: on my show too, Like my listeners need to know
Speaker 1: who you are. Excuse me, I'm not used to having
Speaker 1: this turned back around. I was so excited to do it. Well,
Speaker 1: I am Annie Annie Reese, and I am part of
Speaker 1: the co hosting team of Saber, which is a podcast
Speaker 1: about food and drink. So this is very exciting. It's
Speaker 1: a good fit. And you Daniel her friend far so
Speaker 1: very happy to be here. Yeah yeah, um Hi, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. I'm yes, the other half of that
Speaker 1: Saver team. Um, we have a focus on on food
Speaker 1: and drink, the science and culture and history of everything
Speaker 1: that is ingestible and some things that are not, like
Speaker 1: edible gold, but well it's ingustible, it's just not nutritious
Speaker 1: right out poop it. You just poop it right out
Speaker 1: and pay so much for it. I know it doesn't
Speaker 1: even taste like anything such expensive poop. Uh. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: and we we started the podcast Saver when Okay, we
Speaker 1: had been in Austin for south By Southwest, and I
Speaker 1: witnessed Annie like she had this map of all of
Speaker 1: these restaurants that we needed to go to or that
Speaker 1: she needed to go to, and that she dragged a
Speaker 1: lot of us along too as well, and like she
Speaker 1: knew what to order there, and she had made reservations
Speaker 1: for barbecue there like three months in advance and all
Speaker 1: of this other stuff. And I was like, oh man,
Speaker 1: this lady needs a food podcast. M hmm, that's beautiful. Okay,
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, Um, I worked as a
Speaker 1: management consultant after studying kind of businessy degrees, and I
Speaker 1: struggled for a long time to really find what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do and sort of burned out in a
Speaker 1: management consulting career, and I watched Eat, Pray, Love when
Speaker 1: it was really that corny moment where I saw Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts talk about how she felt her life used to
Speaker 1: have meaning and now it had none. And I was
Speaker 1: on a plane to India in a week, and I
Speaker 1: sort of just went to India to clean yoga mats
Speaker 1: and find my humility because I was just a spoiled,
Speaker 1: white rich boy from Africa who had privilege, and I
Speaker 1: needed to get rid of a lot of that. I
Speaker 1: needed to go and just find myself in that kind
Speaker 1: of corny, obvious way, but I needed to go and
Speaker 1: under stand how I could give back, how I could
Speaker 1: find humanity. And it helped that. I was, you know,
Speaker 1: waking up at four in the morning, cleaning bathrooms for
Speaker 1: curry eating ushroom goers and washing the mats of sweaty
Speaker 1: Australian backpackings. And at some point I was standing in
Speaker 1: the ganga after my teacher told me to kind of
Speaker 1: leave all my bullshit and stand in the mother Ganga
Speaker 1: until I've let that go. And I stood in this
Speaker 1: water for a very very long time. I cried, I laughed,
Speaker 1: and I just stayed until I had fully washed my persona.
Speaker 1: I'd say fully, but as much as I possibly could,
Speaker 1: Like I washed a persona away and I was able
Speaker 1: to kind of really just step out of that water
Speaker 1: and be like, great, I want to be different. I
Speaker 1: want to make a contribution to this world. I want
Speaker 1: to feel alive in a way that I hadn't been.
Speaker 1: And that set me on a course because what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do is right and um. I had an
Speaker 1: English teacher at school who really believed in me, and
Speaker 1: she sort of saw me and she was like, you
Speaker 1: have talent, you should do something with this. And she
Speaker 1: was the first person in my life that really saw
Speaker 1: me besides for my mother, and it set me on
Speaker 1: this course to New York. I sort of packed my
Speaker 1: bags and moved to New York with nothing, and I
Speaker 1: knew no one and I had nothing. My parents cut
Speaker 1: me off and I had no idea what I was
Speaker 1: going to do. And I was willing to tell stories
Speaker 1: and write and travel. And the New York Times found me,
Speaker 1: and Condonnas Trala found me, and it sort of snowballed
Speaker 1: from there and here I am today. Oh that's amazing.
Speaker 1: I Um, I mean I guess I. I like moved
Speaker 1: to Atlanta from Florida. Anny, you got into travel, did
Speaker 1: you sort of have a similar experien riants somewhere along
Speaker 1: the line when you started traveling where you were just like, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is me changing, this is like a paradigm shift. Yeah, absolutely, I. Um.
Speaker 1: No one in my family likes to travel. They have
Speaker 1: no desire to see anything outside of the United States.
Speaker 1: And when I was younger, that never made sense to me.
Speaker 1: So when I was nine, because I was a weird
Speaker 1: nine year old, I wrote a like before I die,
Speaker 1: here's what I want to do, and it was almost
Speaker 1: all visit this place, this place, visit this place, and um.
Speaker 1: And I was in college. For my major, I had
Speaker 1: to travel to a different country every summer and get
Speaker 1: a job there and work there. And so the first
Speaker 1: place I went was Australia, and I was working with
Speaker 1: the indigenous people in Australia, and I just felt this
Speaker 1: opportunity of such growth because you're if you travel at
Speaker 1: least by yourself, then there are no expectations of how
Speaker 1: you should behave because no one knows you there, and
Speaker 1: it's really freeing and really liberating and that was something
Speaker 1: that I really needed when I was a college student,
Speaker 1: like a chance to see, Okay, if you put me
Speaker 1: on my own, what can I get up to? What
Speaker 1: can I do? Who will I become? And I fell
Speaker 1: in love with it and I got the travel bug,
Speaker 1: as they say, from there, and I just wanted to
Speaker 1: travel all the time every chance I possibly got. That's
Speaker 1: I feel like I've never gotten that bug. Like I
Speaker 1: travel makes me so anxious because I I can't control it.
Speaker 1: I want to know what's going to happen. And of
Speaker 1: course that's like literally not the point. That's that's the
Speaker 1: opposite of what the point of doing that is. I mean,
Speaker 1: And to be fair, like coffee makes me anxious, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's it's not a it's not a
Speaker 1: short punt, but it's I'm getting more into it, like slowly,
Speaker 1: and I'm making this like cautious hand gesture. It's like
Speaker 1: you're dipping your toe in the water. It's a little cold,
Speaker 1: but you're getting used to it. Yeah, I mean, because
Speaker 1: of course, like different places are so beautiful, and I
Speaker 1: mean for my purposes, I I my father was a
Speaker 1: professional chef and a lot of the women in my
Speaker 1: family cooked at home, and getting to try what is
Speaker 1: home cooking for different people in different cultures is just
Speaker 1: one of the most amazing experiences of just that kind
Speaker 1: of shared humanity. That's beautiful. I like, then, thank you, Um,
Speaker 1: You've got these travel commandments, since over over on our end,
Speaker 1: this is a food focused show, um. Hypothetically some days
Speaker 1: it's more Mary Kayton nashally focused. That's my fault. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you. Are are any of your commandments specifically about food,
Speaker 1: about eating and drinking when you're traveling, Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I think they all are about food and sharing a
Speaker 1: beverage because there's more sharing a meal, because there's a
Speaker 1: way that you find almost a new utral space, or
Speaker 1: you find a place of common interest when it comes
Speaker 1: to a beverage or when it comes to something to eat,
Speaker 1: and it's such a beautiful way to experience the world.
Speaker 1: So when I say thou shalt ignore thy smartphone, it's
Speaker 1: because I don't want you to photograph your food. I
Speaker 1: want you to share it and talk about it and
Speaker 1: feel it and think about it. And when I interview
Speaker 1: a chef like Mark Olive who's Aboriginal and from Australia,
Speaker 1: it's about talking about indigenous ingredients and about all these
Speaker 1: incredible proteins that someone like Paul Iscoff, another chef in
Speaker 1: Australia has found, and how they are bringing back this
Speaker 1: tradition that stems to the beginning of humanity. And then
Speaker 1: when I say things like keep holy, the high and low,
Speaker 1: it's like, yes, there's a place to eat at the
Speaker 1: Michelin Star restaurant, of course, but there's also a place
Speaker 1: to eating on the street, and those two things can
Speaker 1: exist in the same way. So for me, the thing
Speaker 1: that I try and talk about travel is you don't
Speaker 1: have to stay at the best hotel or eat at
Speaker 1: the Michelin restaurant. You can stay wherever. You can have
Speaker 1: an adventure. The trip is about humanity and touching that
Speaker 1: and how to find that and and meeting people and
Speaker 1: food plays to me. Food and beverage play such a
Speaker 1: huge role in that, and I think if we take
Speaker 1: the judgment out of food and we take the expectation
Speaker 1: out of food, we're able to have a real experience.
Speaker 1: And the instagram ability, that's fine Instagram early one, but
Speaker 1: just remember that it's about nature and about touching what
Speaker 1: farming and regentitative farming is that's putting that meal in
Speaker 1: front of you. Those are the things that I think
Speaker 1: we should be thinking about every time you have a coffee.
Speaker 1: Are you thinking about where this being came from? And
Speaker 1: who which thinker is getting paid fair wage to do this?
Speaker 1: Like I have an episode with Counterculture, my favorite coffee brand.
Speaker 1: They're an independent kind of growing and I introduced you
Speaker 1: to Emily that day, And in fact, I'm having lunch
Speaker 1: with Emily after this and actually that's a trip we
Speaker 1: should do Ethiopia. I'm going to Ethiopia with them. We'll
Speaker 1: talk about that. There's some Indira in your future. I
Speaker 1: love it. But that's the thing that I think. Michael,
Speaker 1: my husband, talks about this. Alant and his business Organic Farmer,
Speaker 1: is focused on this. He's focused on exactly that, like
Speaker 1: returning to knowing where your food is coming from and
Speaker 1: understanding that regenerative farming is what's going to save the world.
Speaker 1: It's going to save the planet. We do we need
Speaker 1: subsidies for organic farming. We need lobbyists to go and
Speaker 1: bring organic farming to a much bigger stage in this country.
Speaker 1: But travel forms part out of that because you have
Speaker 1: to go to the middle of this country. To go
Speaker 1: and see what farming is today. And then when you
Speaker 1: are shocked to see what's happening in Kansas, then you
Speaker 1: should go back to your plate and you should think about, shit,
Speaker 1: what am I eating when I'm buying the sandwich at
Speaker 1: the airport there? Yeah? Well, you know, don't you think
Speaker 1: it's important that kids at school should understand where the
Speaker 1: carrot is coming from. And it's not coming from trade
Speaker 1: to Joe's or from a safe way or whatever Krogers,
Speaker 1: It's coming from the earth. And what it takes to
Speaker 1: be able to create a carrot like that. How many
Speaker 1: days does it have to be under the soil in
Speaker 1: order for it to grow? How many days does it
Speaker 1: have to be kept in cold storage? And who's doing that?
Speaker 1: Who's the worker that's doing that at an unfair wage?
Speaker 1: Those are the things that we should be addressing. It
Speaker 1: should be prestigious to be a farmer. It should be
Speaker 1: the greatest honor in this country, the same way that
Speaker 1: we are I don't know, the military. We should be
Speaker 1: honoring farmers because they are the bones of what's making
Speaker 1: this country great. Yeah and um, and they are also
Speaker 1: putting themselves at risk every day. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: hard work, it is laborous work, it is dangerous equipment.
Speaker 1: It's frequently dangerous pesticides and herbicides that are in not
Speaker 1: only in your literal hands when you're working in the field,
Speaker 1: but also if you live nearby, they're probably in your groundwater.
Speaker 1: But they don't get hazard pay. They probably don't get
Speaker 1: full wage. Hoof. Well, I don't want to preach like
Speaker 1: that's the other thing. Like to me, it feels like
Speaker 1: there are times where like I talk about the stuff
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm standing on a soapbox preaching
Speaker 1: and it really isn't that. It's not I don't mean
Speaker 1: to preach. I mean to just inspire and to be like,
Speaker 1: you know, do you know that almost all farmers in
Speaker 1: this country have a side hustle because they cannot make
Speaker 1: it living from farming alone. I just think that that's
Speaker 1: something we should think about, sure. I mean also, you know,
Speaker 1: like if you can't afford to buy whatever level of
Speaker 1: organic or etcetera type of product, like there's no shame
Speaker 1: in that either, Like do what you can, you know,
Speaker 1: just be be aware and try to make other people
Speaker 1: who have the financial means aware as well. Well. It
Speaker 1: has to trickle down like it has to start from
Speaker 1: the top. I don't believe in trickle down economics, but
Speaker 1: I do believe and trickle down organic like it starts
Speaker 1: at the top and people with money are able to
Speaker 1: support that, and eventually there's a government sort of an
Speaker 1: assistance and that filters down to the next level and
Speaker 1: the next level. Because no one needs M and m's
Speaker 1: and chips for lunch, no one needs fake cheese as
Speaker 1: a meal for your children in the school. And it's
Speaker 1: not about government overreach, It's about government support. And that's
Speaker 1: what I believe in. Absolutely. Sorry answer to your question.
Speaker 1: We love long answers, Yeah, all the time. I want
Speaker 1: to ask both of you um, on your travels, are
Speaker 1: there common threads that you've into how people approach food
Speaker 1: and drink? And also on the flip side, are there
Speaker 1: uncommon threads? Are there things that you've observed that are
Speaker 1: just not part of Western culture that have really stood
Speaker 1: out to you? M hm um. I'll say something that
Speaker 1: I've noticed that I didn't realize I took so much
Speaker 1: for granted in the United States. Is water availability of
Speaker 1: clean water because I drink Laura knows I drink a
Speaker 1: lot of water. And he is very well hydrated. I am,
Speaker 1: I am. And being in other countries where they don't
Speaker 1: just put it on the table for you, like and
Speaker 1: having all of these what you've got to boil it
Speaker 1: and you've got to do something else with it. That
Speaker 1: was something I hadn't realized that I took so for granted.
Speaker 1: Or like showers that turn off after thirty seconds, um,
Speaker 1: things like that. And then I seemed to notice in
Speaker 1: most places I visited a more relaxed atmosphere when it
Speaker 1: came to eating, like I'm more, we're going to enjoy
Speaker 1: this meal, enjoy it together. And I would have to
Speaker 1: tell myself just just calm down. It's okay. It's gonna
Speaker 1: take hanger than you're used to. Okay, things like that,
Speaker 1: and like smaller things too, like more let's have let's
Speaker 1: just have some tea and talk for a minute, or
Speaker 1: just coming together over some type of food, a little ritual. Yea. Well,
Speaker 1: I have a funny story. Do you remember when Obama
Speaker 1: was buying um, I don't know. I think it was
Speaker 1: a muffin or some baked good and he reached over
Speaker 1: the sneeze God and it was the horror of the
Speaker 1: lake and when I was in Europe this summer with
Speaker 1: my husband. We were in Italy and I was like
Speaker 1: touching things and looking at things, and Michael was like horrified.
Speaker 1: He was like, I forget how you get in Europe.
Speaker 1: You are so touchy and feely with the fruits and
Speaker 1: the vegetables, and you just like you forget all safety,
Speaker 1: health safety code. And I was like, well, the Europeans
Speaker 1: seem fine to me, and I think that we're too
Speaker 1: sanitized in America when it comes to these things, you know.
Speaker 1: So that is something I see all the time where
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm in Vietnam and sitting on the street.
Speaker 1: There is a man with a giant pot bigger than
Speaker 1: a scooter, and he's stirring the spot and basically anything
Speaker 1: could fall into that part. There's space for, you know,
Speaker 1: a small army to get in, and he's making like
Speaker 1: this beautiful stir and I'm not asking what's in there.
Speaker 1: I don't care. The line is around the block. People
Speaker 1: are ganging up for this thing, and he sells out
Speaker 1: before the sun goes down. Of course, I'm going to
Speaker 1: eat that health and safety out the window. And perhaps
Speaker 1: that's you know, it's not the safest thing to do.
Speaker 1: But in some ways, I'm like, I'm in a of
Speaker 1: and do that. I remember the first time I went
Speaker 1: to Europe and I saw that they had the eggs
Speaker 1: they weren't refrigerated, and I was so shocked. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like, do they know it's not? Of course? Um
Speaker 1: and something else I I love And I think this
Speaker 1: is true pretty much anywhere. But people are so eager
Speaker 1: to share their food with you and the stories of
Speaker 1: it and like how their family has made it. And
Speaker 1: then they want to hear about your food stories too,
Speaker 1: So I think that is something that's really beautiful. You travel,
Speaker 1: food gives you an opening for sharing and an opening
Speaker 1: to be kind. Oh yeah, the way in my heart
Speaker 1: is absolutely through my stomach. If you if you want
Speaker 1: to get on my good like first thing, just just
Speaker 1: be like here, like, have a bite of this, and uh,
Speaker 1: I hope it's not annoying when when we're all on
Speaker 1: trips together, we all, you know, well, we'll be at
Speaker 1: dinner and I'll be eating something and I'll take a
Speaker 1: few bites and I'll be like you, guys, all you
Speaker 1: have to try this. You have to try this, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you how to compose the bite and
Speaker 1: I'm going to Oh, I enjoy it. I appreciate it,
Speaker 1: tell you what order to do it in and like
Speaker 1: everyone has to have some I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. It's it's just such a wonderful
Speaker 1: Like it's such a visceral experience. And I think there's
Speaker 1: are so few situations where, um, you can share a
Speaker 1: visceral experience with someone who you're not like, like bodily
Speaker 1: intimate with, And yeah, whod is one of them. I
Speaker 1: think that everyone has had experiences on the road of um,
Speaker 1: like not knowing how to find something that's local and
Speaker 1: that's good or um or you know, just settling for
Speaker 1: like mediocre hotel food because you're tired and you just
Speaker 1: don't have it in you. Do either of you have
Speaker 1: any suggestions, like like advice for listeners about how to
Speaker 1: avoid that sad hotel burger. Oh boy, I'm never having
Speaker 1: a sad hotel burger. I think I'd rather stuff. No,
Speaker 1: I probably have a snack with me. I don't need
Speaker 1: to have a sad hotel burger. Um. I have this
Speaker 1: thing where when I travel I type in the words
Speaker 1: pour over and then I enter the city that I'm
Speaker 1: going to, and it's been very useful to me because
Speaker 1: if they're serving a poor over or a chemics, the
Speaker 1: chances are that they actually give a shit about the
Speaker 1: way that they're preparing their coffee or where they're getting
Speaker 1: their beans from. And that usually leads me to like
Speaker 1: away into a city and a way into a community
Speaker 1: and a sort of set of people. And associated with
Speaker 1: poor over coffee is usually food that is related. So
Speaker 1: if I go to um Costa Rica, I'll put in
Speaker 1: like San Jose, pour over coffee, and I'll find some
Speaker 1: cute coffee shop and I'd go there and that person
Speaker 1: I could be like, where would you eat? And they
Speaker 1: would tell you. And that's worked for me in montevide You,
Speaker 1: it's worked for me in Nairobi, And it's kind of
Speaker 1: this little thing. Coffee is like a way to get
Speaker 1: into this world. That's actually the second time we've heard
Speaker 1: that about coffee. If I'm that fascinating. Yeah. One of
Speaker 1: our interviewees in in Asheville, North Carolina, was talking about
Speaker 1: how coffee, like good coffee, is sort of the entrance.
Speaker 1: Like if you can convince people to give a ship
Speaker 1: about coffee, and you can convince them that other food
Speaker 1: should be good. Yeah, I agree. Excellent. Well, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for jumping on the line with us, ladies.
Speaker 1: I bid you farewell, I adore you, and I will
Speaker 1: hopefully see you very soon. Excellent. Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you. We're in the midst of planning our trip
Speaker 1: to Ethiopia, and if you want to hear more from
Speaker 1: Annie and Lauren, you should listen and subscribe to Sava,
Speaker 1: which is available anyway you get your podcasts. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you for making this trip with me. As always, I've
Speaker 1: had a blast. If you'd like to reach out, connect
Speaker 1: with us on Instagram and Everywhere Podcast. A big shout
Speaker 1: out to my executive producers, Christopher Hastatis and the loveliest
Speaker 1: Polly Fry, my lead producer and editor who I couldn't
Speaker 1: do anything without the Chandler Maze and my co editor
Speaker 1: and composer of the beautiful Everywhere score, Tristan McNeil. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Daniel Scheffler, and don't forget good boys go
Speaker 1: to Heaven, Bad Boys Go everywhere.