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Speaker 1: Hey, this is bridget And and you're listening to stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom never told you. Now, for today's episode, we have

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Speaker 1: to have a trigger warning. It is about issues dealing

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Speaker 1: with sexual assault sexual harassment. So if that's something that

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Speaker 1: is tough for you, just know that that is what

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Speaker 1: today's episode is about. Today we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about the viral campaign me Too. If you have Facebook

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Speaker 1: or social media, you've probably seen people in your life

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Speaker 1: posting me to. This viral campaign actually came as a

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Speaker 1: response to Harvey Weinstein, who was this very very powerful

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Speaker 1: Hollywood producer and filmmaker. These bombshell bombshell bombshell allegations that

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Speaker 1: came out that he has been sexually harassing and sexually

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Speaker 1: assaulting women in Hollywood for many, many years, and that

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Speaker 1: a culture of silence, a culture of looking the other way,

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Speaker 1: a culture of fear, a culture of intimidation, really allowed

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Speaker 1: for a sexual abuser to fester in this industry. And

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Speaker 1: it took a lot of women standing up to have

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Speaker 1: anything be done about it and even have a national

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Speaker 1: conversation about it. Despite the fact that it seems like

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Speaker 1: it's been an open secret in Hollywood for quite a while,

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Speaker 1: it really does seem like a watershed moment in this conversation.

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Speaker 1: I feel like the access Hollywood bus conversation by our

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Speaker 1: commander in chief was the match that lit a lot

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Speaker 1: of this fire across the United States, in particular around

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Speaker 1: the everyday, commonplace rape culture that we live in. And

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Speaker 1: now this sort of movement, this energy, this frustration is

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Speaker 1: totally righteous. Anger is manifesting in this interestingly targeted way.

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Speaker 1: So I look back at that tape and I think,

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Speaker 1: how did this guy be our president? I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I thought that was the end. Oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: was so naive to think people cared. But I do

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Speaker 1: think you're right. I think the fact, I think for

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Speaker 1: a lot of women, fems, gender nonconforming folks, many of

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Speaker 1: us have gone through sexual thought, sexual harassment. If you

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Speaker 1: look at the numbers, it's a pretty common thing. And

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Speaker 1: so I think you're right, and that going through the

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Speaker 1: process of watching that tape, having Trump become president, that

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Speaker 1: kind of lit this anger that had been bubbling under

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Speaker 1: the surface for so long, where all of us are

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Speaker 1: like no more, yeah, no more, like no more sexual

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Speaker 1: predators achieving success in this economy. There is no way

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Speaker 1: that I think this is where I always go back

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Speaker 1: to like capitalism can be good, and I really want

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Speaker 1: to see people who are predators, who are criminal in

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Speaker 1: their use of power, coercion, sexual assault, rape, that they

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Speaker 1: are not allowed to succeed. That should be a deal

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Speaker 1: breaker in terms of getting a job, getting a promotion,

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Speaker 1: running companies, being successful, Like let's make that not possible anymore.

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Speaker 1: And even beyond that, for me, it's not just make

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Speaker 1: sure they're not successful. We shouldn't get them on a

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Speaker 1: stage and applaud that. Like that's what bugs me so

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Speaker 1: much about things like that, you're Woody Allen's of the world.

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Speaker 1: Not only do I want to see them have massive,

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Speaker 1: massive failures on a on a grand public scale. When

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Speaker 1: I see them get trotted up on an Oscar stage

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Speaker 1: and like a standing ovation, that's the thing. They should

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Speaker 1: be shamed and voted off the island. What are we

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Speaker 1: doing that we allow these abusers to not just get

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Speaker 1: financial and professional success, but then we uplift them like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're so great? What are we doing? I just think

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Speaker 1: it's a weird distinction that people can somehow and it

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Speaker 1: kind of like problematic faiths and that you can hold

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Speaker 1: someone's body of work separate from the way that they

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Speaker 1: conduct themselves personally. But A we shouldn't be able to

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Speaker 1: look the other way when we're talking about sereal predators

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Speaker 1: who commit assault, sexual will assault, any assault, really and

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Speaker 1: be now we're talking about sexual assault at work, So

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Speaker 1: now this isn't just some dark secret sweep under the rug.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about people who are a threat to women

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Speaker 1: in their offices, who are a threat to women and

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Speaker 1: men in many cases by using their professional power as

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Speaker 1: a vehicle for control in a sexual domain. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things I think is would have glossed

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Speaker 1: over in the Harvey Weinstein situation is that because we're

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Speaker 1: talking about famous A list actresses, it can seem like

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Speaker 1: this is this like this Hollywood thing. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, these are women in the workplace,

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Speaker 1: and that even though they're famous, they're on TV, they're

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Speaker 1: A lists or magazines, it is a sexual assault and

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Speaker 1: harassment in the workplace situation. And I think that that

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Speaker 1: can get lost when you're talking about like glittery A listers,

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Speaker 1: and we sometimes overestimate the power of glittery A listers

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Speaker 1: as compared to the behind the scenes people who make

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Speaker 1: decisions about what rules they're going to get So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you look at these beautiful, successful, flashy A listers and

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Speaker 1: you think they're so powerful, How could this happen to them?

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Speaker 1: Like surely people like when with Paltrow was wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: happening to her. But you think about it, you know,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to acting, these people were a lot

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Speaker 1: of times just sort of getting their start and just

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Speaker 1: kind of working up the ranks of Hollywood, and so

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Speaker 1: they actually maybe didn't have that much power. Also, it

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Speaker 1: just goes to remind you that it doesn't matter how

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Speaker 1: successful you are, You're still just a piece of ask

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Speaker 1: to somebody. And the most recent everyday assault that I experienced,

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Speaker 1: which I don't even want to go into details because

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Speaker 1: I'm not into the me too kind of assault sharing

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Speaker 1: culture so much. We're going to talk about more, but

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Speaker 1: it was just like an everyday stranger assaulting me, basically

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Speaker 1: groping me in public. M reminded me that like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm a boss, like I am, I own my own company.

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Speaker 1: I feel on top of the world right now. I'm

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Speaker 1: like having a great day. I'm going through the world

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Speaker 1: minding my own business, and I am still dehumanized by

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Speaker 1: someone else. It does not matter how successful you are.

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Speaker 1: That is what assault reminds you of, is that you

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Speaker 1: are nothing. It makes you feel like it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: how much brilliance or gusto or power you feel like

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Speaker 1: you have, You're still just a piece of ast somebody.

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Speaker 1: And I've horrified that that happened. But the framing that

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Speaker 1: you just gave, I think is so important because I

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Speaker 1: think as women, we are taught that it's good to

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Speaker 1: be a strong, badass woman. You know, no one's gonna

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Speaker 1: mess with me, blah blah blah. But we are still susceptible, right.

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Speaker 1: People look at women who project as very strong, as

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Speaker 1: very assertive, the kind of woman who would you know,

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Speaker 1: punch you if you did something wrong, and those women

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Speaker 1: are still being assault It's it really doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: kind of woman you are, what kind of person you are.

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Speaker 1: Sexual harassment and sexual thought happens to all of us,

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Speaker 1: and it happens in so many industries beyond the entertainment

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Speaker 1: industry too, Although the entertainment industry is uniquely poised for

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing because beauty and sexuality and sensuality

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Speaker 1: are such a form of currency for actors, really being

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Speaker 1: given the nature of their work. But you've seen this

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Speaker 1: first hand in the world of progressive politics. I have

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Speaker 1: seen this firsthand. Um. And so again, the thing that

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Speaker 1: really throws me about the situation that I experienced firsthand

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Speaker 1: is that you would think that progressive politics, you know,

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Speaker 1: these are male feminists, these are lefties, these are people

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Speaker 1: that you can really trust. That is definitely how I

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Speaker 1: entered the world of progressive politics thinking. And I quickly

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Speaker 1: realized that that is not the case. And so a

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Speaker 1: few years ago I had this job at a consulting

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Speaker 1: firm called It's Given Media here in d C. We

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Speaker 1: also had offices in California and New York. We were

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Speaker 1: this bustling progressive firm. We worked with folks like UM, Ultra, Violet, Um,

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Speaker 1: we worked with folks like move On. Basically, it was

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Speaker 1: a who's who of power players on the progressive left right,

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Speaker 1: so big lefty organizations and our firms founder, Trevork Fitzgibbon

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Speaker 1: ended up shuttering the firm under many, many, many allegations

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Speaker 1: of systematic sexual harassment and assault by both coworkers and clients.

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Speaker 1: And so how this played out for us is that

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Speaker 1: we went to a retreat in Austin, Texas, we were

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Speaker 1: a remote office, so we had people who worked from

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Speaker 1: home or from different cities. But this is one of

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Speaker 1: the first times we were all together physically in one

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Speaker 1: in one room, and people started sharing stories and so

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Speaker 1: one person would be like, oh, well I got this

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Speaker 1: text or oh this happened to me, and before you

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Speaker 1: know it, everyone has a story. And so it really

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Speaker 1: was one of those things that snowballed where we all

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Speaker 1: came in thinking, oh, this is a one off thing

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Speaker 1: or this weird thing happened with me, and then realized,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this is a systematic thing. It's happening

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Speaker 1: to multiple people, and really what you're talking about is

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Speaker 1: unwanted sexual advances from Fitz given the founding partner, and

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Speaker 1: the people comparing notes and sharing stories were all the

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Speaker 1: women in the office. Okay, so this is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe he just invited me to his hotel late at

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Speaker 1: night because he was like having a weird night and maybe,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe it was just me something you can

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Speaker 1: look past, and then you start to compare notes and realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a thing like these advances, these unwanted assaults

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Speaker 1: in some cases, um and granted these are accusations as

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Speaker 1: they currently stand right, but your office, like you've said

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Speaker 1: in the past, gossip became a very powerful tool for

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Speaker 1: understanding that you were not alone and experiencing this kind

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Speaker 1: of weirdness from your boss. Yeah, And I think what

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Speaker 1: is so fascinating to me about the situation is the

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Speaker 1: way that none of us in that office were famous, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: none of us were Hollywood A listeners. But the way

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Speaker 1: that the Weinstein case really mirrored what happened with my

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Speaker 1: progressive firm, and so things like it just being an

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Speaker 1: invite that you're like, oh, well, that was unusual. So

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Speaker 1: one of the things that a lot of the women

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Speaker 1: who made accusations against Harvey Weinstein pointed out is that

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Speaker 1: it often started with meeting for drinks or an invitation

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Speaker 1: to go to a film screening one on one, that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. And trever I fitz Given definitely did

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Speaker 1: that same kind of thing, where it's an invitation for

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Speaker 1: something that seems intimate, that gives you pause but doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily strike you as this person is trying to sexually

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Speaker 1: assault me, right right, Well, in wine Stine's case, they

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Speaker 1: would show up and that he would be like in

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Speaker 1: a bathroom in a hotel room, so it eventually would

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Speaker 1: get to that way, so like Lupita and Nyango. Actually,

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Speaker 1: right when wine Stine first came into her orbit, she

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Speaker 1: was still a student, and it often, you know, early

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Speaker 1: on was dinner's invitations to see movies and how he

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Speaker 1: did these specific things to make her feel like it

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Speaker 1: was safe. So it would be like, oh, come to

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Speaker 1: this movie screening. You can bring a friend if you want,

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Speaker 1: or an invitation to dinner, and when they get to dinner,

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Speaker 1: there's a female assistant there, but then the assistant leaves,

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Speaker 1: and so it's done in a way where you know

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Speaker 1: it seems off, but it's not necessarily at least to

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Speaker 1: start with over enough to be like this is bad. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they just want to hate because A. I think that

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Speaker 1: one on one meetings are critical for everyone's career success

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Speaker 1: plan and simple B. I've been on many of these

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Speaker 1: kind of hangouts with your mentor and then you're like, oh, God,

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Speaker 1: is he going to hit on me? Have you ever

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Speaker 1: had a one on one where you where you bring

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Speaker 1: your resume and it's a date. Yeah, I remember distinctly

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Speaker 1: knowing that I was in trouble when this guy who

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Speaker 1: was a senior consultant on a campaign, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: the young intern on the campaign took me out to dinner.

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Speaker 1: I thought we were going to talk about work and

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Speaker 1: career stuff, and he made a point of showing me

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Speaker 1: that it was a four bottle of wine that he

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Speaker 1: just ordered for us to to have. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm in trouble. I'm officially in trouble. This man now

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Speaker 1: feels entitled to something in return for his return on

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Speaker 1: that investment. And I knew it then, and I predicted

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Speaker 1: the oncoming assaults that would follow in his car, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to tell people you can't have these meetings, right,

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Speaker 1: that's pensive strategy, right, like no closed door meetings without mother.

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Speaker 1: They're you know, mother, Like, we can't not be able

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Speaker 1: to have these meetings. And yet this is the tactic

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Speaker 1: that people who are trying to assault others use and

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Speaker 1: rely on our trust of people to not be evil.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what the case was in my situation working

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Speaker 1: at the given and also with Harvey Weinstein, and so

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Speaker 1: the ways in which predators use these things that we

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Speaker 1: all understand as parts of having a job, you know,

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Speaker 1: one on one meetings, getting drinks things like that, using

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Speaker 1: those things to prey on people who are vulnerable, and

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Speaker 1: that you're in a position of power over. One of

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Speaker 1: the things I found so fascinating about when a Paltrow

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Speaker 1: story and that really really mirrored my own, is that

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Speaker 1: when Harvey Weinstein made an advance on her, she talks

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Speaker 1: about how stunned she was. She says, I thought you

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Speaker 1: were my uncle, Harvey, she recalled thinking, explaining that she

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Speaker 1: had seen him as a mentor. And for me, what

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Speaker 1: struck me from that anecdote is this idea that predators

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Speaker 1: they work by making you feel special or seen or chosen, right,

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Speaker 1: Like when my boss suggested that we needed a hotel

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Speaker 1: room for a drink, part of me was like, I

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Speaker 1: should just be happy that he sees me and that

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Speaker 1: he you know, I thought he wanted to do that

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Speaker 1: because he thought I was successful or talented or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like it's a way of making you feel special and chosen,

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Speaker 1: and that that can be used later on to get

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Speaker 1: you to do something you don't want to do. And

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Speaker 1: did you ever meet up with him? Uh? Well, funny story,

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Speaker 1: So how not funny? But I feel what you told

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Speaker 1: me this story for it. So what went down in

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Speaker 1: our case was that anyone who knew me at the

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Speaker 1: time before I got hired at It's Given knew that

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Speaker 1: I needed a job, right, Like I was a girl

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Speaker 1: who was a miserable at her job, and like I

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Speaker 1: was telling everybody, get me out of here, I'm so miserable.

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Speaker 1: So he sent me a couple of Facebook dms, was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm in New York. Do you want to come get

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Speaker 1: a drink in my hotel? That kind of thing, And

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Speaker 1: at the time I was like, well, drinking a hotel,

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Speaker 1: this is a little bit off. But then again, it's

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Speaker 1: progressive politics. We're pretty we can be pretty casual. So

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Speaker 1: I ended up declining, but only because I lived in

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn and he was in Manhattan. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not getting break for you. I'm not

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Speaker 1: making a complicated subway to transfer her. So I was

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Speaker 1: like no thanks. So then later when I ended up

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Speaker 1: getting my job at It's Given around Thanksgiving, I lived

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Speaker 1: in Richmond and he actually lived in Richmond too, and

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Speaker 1: so he invited me. He was like, oh, we should

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Speaker 1: get a drink while we're both in Richmond, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, cool, Yeah, I have showing up with my

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Speaker 1: friend and my brother and so I'm sure he was like,

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Speaker 1: well for it. Yeah, I mean I happened to be.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this was all this happenstance. I certainly were

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Speaker 1: looking back, I wish I had the foresight too. But

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Speaker 1: at the time, didn't he like rage quit that drink too? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he basically was like, well, by, yeah, I'll pay for

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Speaker 1: the next round by. But yeah, I mean part of me,

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Speaker 1: looking back, it seems so obvious, But I think that

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Speaker 1: is what this is about. Right, Like, when you're when

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Speaker 1: it's happening, you tell yourself, oh, like this is fine,

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Speaker 1: or maybe this is a little unusual, but maybe he's

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Speaker 1: just idiosyncratic, right, You've got, I mean, the benefit of

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Speaker 1: the doubt. I'm not opposed to it, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, because I have benefited greatly from male mentors

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Speaker 1: in my life, and I always tell women, if we

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Speaker 1: are only mentoring other women, or if women are only

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Speaker 1: being mentored by other women, we're going to perpetuate gender

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Speaker 1: wage gaps and gender based discrimination. That's not good for us. Right,

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Speaker 1: Diversity and mentoring people who don't exactly resemble your entire

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Speaker 1: life's experience is important, and so people like Harvey Weinstein

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Speaker 1: and Trevor Fitzgiven give these decent men such a bad name,

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Speaker 1: and I hope it doesn't prevent us from meeting up

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Speaker 1: for drinks with people who are powerful and can actually

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Speaker 1: have influence over our careers. But it's a shame because

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Speaker 1: there are predators out there too. It's like, what the

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Speaker 1: hell are you supposed to do? So it's almost like

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Speaker 1: a double edged sword where you don't want to feel

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Speaker 1: like you're going to miss out on some sort of

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Speaker 1: career opportunity that you should be able to have access to,

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Speaker 1: but because you're a woman, you feel this extra added

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Speaker 1: layer of concern about it because men are creepy, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's why we need all the non creepy men

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Speaker 1: out there and women to actually call this stuff out right,

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Speaker 1: because it's the silence. It's the culture of complicity that

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Speaker 1: keeps predators like fits Given and Weinstein rising to the

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Speaker 1: top like it allows them to remain powerful and influential

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Speaker 1: in a world that they should not be able to be.

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Speaker 1: So really, a notable thing I think that you see

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Speaker 1: in situations both with things like Bill Cosby and with

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Speaker 1: Weinstein is that you have this culture where a team

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Speaker 1: of assistants and drivers and handlers and pr people all

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Speaker 1: know the drill, and they all function to allow this

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Speaker 1: predator to operate. And so it's assistance showing up for

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Speaker 1: drinks and then knowing that they're supposed to leave after

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of time, leave, you know, a woman

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Speaker 1: alone with him, or it's drivers who are looking the

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Speaker 1: other way while there's a woman drugged in his back

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Speaker 1: seat while he's driving her home. It's things like this.

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Speaker 1: It's a culture where everyone knows their role and it's

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Speaker 1: a machine that allows this predator to continue doing what

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Speaker 1: they do without really facing a lot of consequences. And

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Speaker 1: the other component that's common amongst so many of these

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Speaker 1: stories is these powerful influential people have not only this

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Speaker 1: whole team of folks who are complicit in looking the

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Speaker 1: other way, but they also use retaliation as a powerful

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Speaker 1: follow up to their assaults. So, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 1: threatening to blacklist celebrity is like Weinstein did, or if

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Speaker 1: it's planting things in the sort of industry gossip papers

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Speaker 1: about those who dare to speak out, Victims are made

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Speaker 1: well aware that the risks of speaking out and reporting

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Speaker 1: someone who's as beloved and famous as some of these

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Speaker 1: criminals are can come with huge risks, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's what keeps so many women silent, including the women

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Speaker 1: if it's given right, definitely, I mean, certainly, worrying about

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Speaker 1: retaliation was a big part of what happened that it's given.

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Speaker 1: Something I found very interesting about the Weinstein case is

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Speaker 1: that in Lupita's piece of Many York Times, she wrote

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Speaker 1: that after she rebuffed his advances time and time and

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Speaker 1: time again, that there was one incident at a dinner

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Speaker 1: where he said, let's cut to the chase. I think

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Speaker 1: we should finish our meal upstairs, and she was like no,

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Speaker 1: and that after she left, she was like, I felt

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Speaker 1: like I needed to make sure that that everything was good.

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Speaker 1: So I said, Harvey, are we good? And he said,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about your career, but you'll be fine,

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Speaker 1: and that she didn't know if that was a threat

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Speaker 1: or not. And what I don't I don't know about

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Speaker 1: your career, but you'll be fine, and how I mean?

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Speaker 1: And she this happened when she was still a drama

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Speaker 1: student at Yale, so she wasn't even surprised me at all,

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Speaker 1: but like, what an inelegant threat? Like how obvious are

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Speaker 1: you going to be about this kind of thing? That

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Speaker 1: that kind of coercion is not even something you're ashamed

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Speaker 1: to be that explicit about. Well, according to this New

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Speaker 1: Yorker piece by Rogan Faro, which if you have not read,

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Speaker 1: is like a bombshell must read piece, Harvey Weinstein actually

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Speaker 1: had a thing about bragging about getting dirt put in

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Speaker 1: gossip magazines and dissuading of studios from using certain actresses.

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Speaker 1: Like he talked about how he had this power over

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Speaker 1: Hollywood to make things happen for people or not make

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Speaker 1: things happen for people. And so I think the reason

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Speaker 1: why he was so inelegant is because he's not ashamed

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Speaker 1: of it. I'm like being triggered right now because this

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Speaker 1: feels so much like politics. It is that I think,

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Speaker 1: so what campaign life is like. And I think what

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Speaker 1: you said is so important because it's important to even though,

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Speaker 1: just like you were saying earlier, in Hollywood, sex appeal

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Speaker 1: and all of that can be a kind of currency.

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Speaker 1: It's not just Hollywood. It's in so many industries. It's politics,

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Speaker 1: it's medicine, it's law. It's still kind of valid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you if you listen to our Silicon Valley episode

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Speaker 1: Women Being Afraid to Speak up because of retaliation was

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Speaker 1: a hallmark of the abuse and harassment that those women based. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like this is causing me to like

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Speaker 1: just go back in my brain and go back in time,

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Speaker 1: like just thinking about all the men who I've come

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Speaker 1: across who have used their power and influence to get

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Speaker 1: what they want sexually, to get what they want out

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Speaker 1: of the people that they work with, and who have

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Speaker 1: been so unafraid to use that power and influence in

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Speaker 1: a retaliatory manner. It's just it really is like blows

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Speaker 1: your mind how every day and how relatable it is.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's why the whole Meat Too You

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Speaker 1: campaign were so compelling, because it made you do that.

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Speaker 1: It made you go back through every job you've ever had,

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Speaker 1: every off incident you've ever had, every assault you've ever experienced,

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Speaker 1: and be like, this is the experience of being a

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Speaker 1: woman in this country. So we're gonna talk a lot

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Speaker 1: more about the me to campaign and how it got

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Speaker 1: started after this quick break and we're back. We were

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Speaker 1: just getting very very angry thinking about some of the

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Speaker 1: really inappropriate things that I think a lot of us

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Speaker 1: have dealt with and sort of why it's now kind

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Speaker 1: of a watershed moment under the me to campaign. If

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Speaker 1: it seemed like everybody on your social media feed was

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Speaker 1: saying me too, that's probably because they were, uh. And

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Speaker 1: that's probably because sexual harassment in the workplace is so common.

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Speaker 1: One in three women report being harassed in the workplace,

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Speaker 1: and one of four say they witnessed a coworker being harassed.

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Speaker 1: And this is data from a twenties seventeen pole that

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Speaker 1: you Gov did where they surveyed almost five thousand people.

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Speaker 1: And I think that these numbers really show this is

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Speaker 1: an issue that most of us are dealing with. Right

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Speaker 1: It's very very common. Either you've dealt with that, someone

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Speaker 1: you know is doubt what that your friend, your family, whoever.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just this groundswell of voices being like, nope,

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Speaker 1: if you're if you didn't know this was happening, where

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Speaker 1: have you been? And I think I've heard from the

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Speaker 1: men in my life that that was even more opening

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Speaker 1: for them to see all of this me too. For me,

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Speaker 1: it was like obviously, obviously me too. I think when

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Speaker 1: Elissa Milano after the one Steam story broke, she called

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Speaker 1: on people on Twitter to use that hashtag me too

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Speaker 1: if they had experienced assault or harassment in the workplace,

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Speaker 1: and according to Intercept, the hashtag me too has been

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Speaker 1: tweeted well over a million times in five different countries. Basically,

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Speaker 1: Milano was saying, maybe if people knew how common this

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Speaker 1: experience was, we'd care a little bit more about it.

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Speaker 1: And that was certainly the experience that I felt. But

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Speaker 1: I also saw when everyone was using the hashtag. I

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Speaker 1: had this really weird mix of emotions I was experiencing

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Speaker 1: sort of like obviously, duh, Like if you aren't aware

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Speaker 1: that this is a widespread issue, where have you been,

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Speaker 1: but also exhaustion at the need for us to again

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Speaker 1: be sort of trotting out our war stories are wounds

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Speaker 1: to be like, look, tell me I'm valid, Tell me

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Speaker 1: this is a valid issue. And I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: just I felt very conflicted over the popularity of the hashtag, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, was initially a movement started by a

429
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: black activist to Rona Burke, who back in two thousand

430
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: six on my Space actually started this me too campaign

431
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: as a grassroots movement to aid sexual assault survivors in

432
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: underprivileged communities, where quote, according to Ebany, rape crisis centers

433
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 1: and sexual assault workers weren't even going So one thing

434
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: to note that when she started this campaign, she wasn't

435
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: thinking that it would be a viral campaign or a

436
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: has tag that was short lived. Here today, gone tomorrow.

437
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: But she says that she's really really happy to see

438
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 1: what's happening now. She says, what's happening now is powerful,

439
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: and I salute it and the women who have disclosed.

440
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: But the power of using me too has always been

441
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: and the fact that it can be a conversation starter

442
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: or a whole conversation. But it was us talking to us,

443
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: and so she really started this as a black woman

444
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: talking to other underprivileged communities. But then she writes on

445
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 1: her website that she felt the need to take this

446
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: conversation further. And so while she started it for underprivileged

447
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: communities of color because that's who she worked with, she

448
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: realized just how prevalent this was and wanted to take

449
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: that conversation on a more broader level. I wonder if

450
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: we're losing something in mainstreaming it, you know what I mean.

451
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: I wonder if we also need to bring a more

452
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,959
Speaker 1: specific lens to the conversation around women of color. And

453
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, we know that certain women get assaulted little

454
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: lot more than other women totally. And I think, you know,

455
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: we talked about this in our episode for HBC U

456
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: s H Black women are much less likely to report

457
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: sexual assault and sex crimes. M I think the conversation

458
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,239
Speaker 1: is great, but I'm mindful of who it leaves out, right,

459
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: So I think right now the conversation seems to be

460
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: very focused on like white powerful a list women. Actually,

461
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: it was Jane Fonda who made this point in MSNBC

462
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: that so she says it's too bad that it's probably

463
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: because so many of the women that were assaulted by

464
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein are famous and white and everybody knows them.

465
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: This has been going on for a long time to

466
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: black women and other women of color, and it doesn't

467
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 1: get out quite the same. And so I think that

468
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: she's right in that it is an issue for other communities,

469
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: but that perhaps the main streaming of the me too

470
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: campaign kind of leave some of those communities out. I

471
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: also think that we don't we're not talking about gender

472
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: nonconforming folks. Trans women get you know, as we know,

473
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: trans folks are much more likely to be assaulted than

474
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: the general public. Um. I was so proud to see

475
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: Sarah mc bride, who is the National Press Secretary for

476
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: the Human Rights Campaign and was actually the first trans

477
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: person to speak at the Democratic National Convention, So shout

478
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: out to Sarah. Um So. She wrote a whole piece

479
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: for Buzzbeat about how when you're trans, sexual assault and

480
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: sexual harassment has this added layer because we are told

481
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: as a society that transpolkes are gross disgusting and that

482
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: no one could ever possibly want to assault them, and

483
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: that the narrative around transpolkes is this completely ridiculous stereotype

484
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: of a trans person waiting to assault somebody in a bathroom,

485
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: which we know is not actually happening. Um So, she writes,

486
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: I stayed silent because they knew that. While many survivors

487
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 1: are met with disbelief and doubt when they show their stories,

488
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: trans survivors often also face a different kind of disbelief,

489
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: one rooted in the perception that trans people are quote

490
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 1: too disgusting to be assaulted. Alleged rapists and sexual harassers

491
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: will sometimes insist that they couldn't possibly have done what

492
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: they've been accused of because the person accusing them is

493
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: too unattractive to merit being assaulted. We've even heard that

494
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: defense from our sitting president exactly are sitting president has

495
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: said that it makes me want to scream. It boils

496
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: my blood. And there's a part of the me to

497
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: campaign that I think was most effective in its mass

498
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: con some shin, which is it got us all enraged

499
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: again because of the sheer volume. So whereas we've lost

500
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: some things in the mainstreaming that we need to reclaim,

501
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: like a special focus on the experience, the intersectional experience

502
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: of being a trans woman, of being a woman of color,

503
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: and how it's not all the same for every woman,

504
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: we've also gained something in the mass participation, which is

505
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: a I think brought our awareness of how commonplace this is.

506
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 1: But be I got enraged all over again and depressed,

507
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: quite frankly just seeing the onslaught you know what I mean.

508
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: It just felt like too much. It felt like I'm

509
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: just I want to I want to find who all

510
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: these people are in punched in the face. I'm angry.

511
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: I think you're exactly right, and I think you actually

512
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: did see some people saying Hey, if it takes millions

513
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: and millions and millions of women saying me too for

514
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: you to realize this is a problem. What the hell, right,

515
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: Why should we as survivors of sexual trauma, sexual crime,

516
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: sexual abuse, sexual assault? Why should it be on us

517
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: to split open our traumas for the world to see

518
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: to get somebody to care? Right? This is that the

519
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: first time that we've had a viral campaign about sexual

520
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: assaus around women, like hashtag yes all women. We've done

521
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: this before, we begged her before, and so I think

522
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: one of the criticisms I see, and I think it's

523
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: frankly valid, is that if you're the kind of person

524
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,479
Speaker 1: who needs to see this amount of trauma, this amount

525
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 1: of labor on the path of survivors, to do something

526
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: and see it's a problem, like what is going on exactly?

527
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: Bridget And I think it's important to acknowledge that for

528
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: every case involving sexual assault or harassment at work, there's

529
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: typically more than one party involved. So for every one

530
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: of those hashtag me too tweets, you know, where was

531
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: the other player? Where was the other person in that equation?

532
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: And that's the spotlight that our pal Liz playing friend

533
00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: of the show, um, she really shed light on a

534
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: different take, which was this hashtag him though, Like what

535
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: about him? Though? What are we going to talk about him, though,

536
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: and really pointing the microphone in a different direction of saying, Okay,

537
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: we've heard from plenty of survivors. When are we going

538
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: to hear from men? What are we going to hear

539
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: from men on this? Yeah? And I think I'm a

540
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: big fan of not just having the onus being on

541
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: survivors to do the heavy lifting and unpacking and all

542
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: of that. But yeah, I almost felt a little bit

543
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: exasperated seeing so many men saying I believe you, I

544
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: believe you, I believe you. First of all, I don't

545
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: think we're doing this to have men believe us, right,

546
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: I don't get frankly, I like, I like what you

547
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: were about it. I'm like, we're not doing this because

548
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: we want you to believe us. We're doing it because

549
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: we want you to do something about it, right. And

550
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: so I got a little bit irritated watching so many

551
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: of my male coworkers and colleagues and friends sort of

552
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: virtue signaling by being like, I believe you, I believe you,

553
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: I believe you, but then having an end there. And

554
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: so I'm not someone who is into just giving validation

555
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: shin for a man saying I believe you. I want

556
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: you to go further. Make a plan for what you're

557
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: gonna do when you see your homeboy do something out

558
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: of line. Make a plan for what you're gonna do

559
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: when you see sexual harassment in your workplace, even if

560
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: you're an underling, make a plan for it. To tell

561
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: me what you are going to do to help unpack this.

562
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: Don't just pat yourself on the back and be like

563
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: heny women, I believe you, do something about it. That's

564
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: what I found some interesting about that other hashtag that

565
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: popped off from this I did that where the men

566
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: actually saying, you know what, it turns out that in

567
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: college I actually did make a girl feel uncomfortable, or

568
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: it turns out that I was I did have more

569
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: power over a woman and I use that to get

570
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: her to go on a date with me. Or it

571
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: turns out that I did exaggerate my status or my

572
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: ability to make something happen for a woman because I

573
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,479
Speaker 1: wanted to impress her. And that was kind of gross.

574
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to pat yourself on the back

575
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: and say I'm such a great male feminist, I believe you,

576
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. It's harder to be like, here are

577
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: the specific ways that I have contributed to a toxic

578
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: culture wherein sexual harassment and sexual assault is commonplace, and

579
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: I think it's on us. Has done a really good

580
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: job of having that conversation with young men about not

581
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: only understanding consent, but understanding the responsibility of intervention when

582
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: you see something happening that is not okay and not consensual.

583
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: I think we need to have those conversations among grown

584
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: ups in the workplace and making sure assistance are not okay,

585
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: with being the honey pot to set up a meeting

586
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: like that, and making sure drivers are gonna speak out,

587
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: because I think power and coercion in the professional domain

588
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: is so much more tangible because your salaries on the line,

589
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: that that sense of power and the risk you face

590
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: for speaking out is so real. That there are these

591
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: systemic ways in which we are failing people. Sure we

592
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: might be able to curb it on the college campus

593
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: level with Joe Biden giving a hell of a speech

594
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: about maybe having sex with an unconscious woman isn't central, dudes, Like,

595
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: maybe we should all intervene when we see something like

596
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: that happening. No, which is sort of every every sort

597
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: of emotion that I've come out of these two campaign

598
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: it all comes back to know, um, but you know,

599
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: seeing the men in my life on my news feed

600
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: who said I've just like the women, just like I

601
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: was saying to you off air that this has caused

602
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: me to go back and review every pseudo sexual encounter

603
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: that's ever happened to me in the professional domain or

604
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: in college or whatever, and sort of examine was that okay?

605
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of men out there

606
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: who are doing the same, and if there aren't, they

607
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: should be. And whether or not you're going to tweet

608
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: about it, maybe just ask yourself was that okay? And

609
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: if not, how am I going to do something better?

610
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: How am I gonna be better? In Michelle Obama's way?

611
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: That's yeah, That's the thing. Something that I was really

612
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: struck by in watching this campaign take over my personal

613
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: feed was people saying things like, oh, I had a

614
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: me too status earlier about being sexually harassed and the

615
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: guy who was actually harassed me liked it. And I

616
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: was like, ball, yeah, just like brain exion, how do

617
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: you make I sudn't even I was like, I can't

618
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: even make sense of this are the problem is so

619
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: bad and the bad actors here are so I don't

620
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: even know what I'm saying, like egocentric. I think it's

621
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: about them, It's it's we're in such a place when

622
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: it comes to the conversation around sexual harassment assault that

623
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: the people who are often the perpetrators are not even

624
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: seeing themselves in that light. Somebody tweeted at us actually

625
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: just the other day um and brought this text message

626
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: exchange to light for us between a sexual assault survivor

627
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: who had used the status on her Facebook wall to

628
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: say me too, and the person who she was talking about,

629
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: texting her saying, Hey, I'm just I wanted to let

630
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: you know I'm here if you want to talk about this,

631
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: and she was like, you're the last person I want

632
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: to talk to. And he was like, you know, I

633
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: told you that I feel bad about what happened between us.

634
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: There was no malicious intent, and you know it's not

635
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: fair that we've both keep carrying around the psychological baggage

636
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: kidding me. He was like, you know, we should talk

637
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: about this and get it off our chest. And she's like, this,

638
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: this is not for you to get any sense of

639
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: relief from and that's not what I'm here for. Yeah,

640
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: that's that's the thing. It's like people who are survivors

641
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: are not doing this to make the people who have

642
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: implemented trauma on others feel better. I mean, that's that's

643
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: the frustration of this campaign too. It's I think it's

644
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: more enraging than empowering for me, and I think there's

645
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: something worth looking into, and that like why I didn't

646
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: feel better when I posted no me too on my

647
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: Facebook status. I felt frustrated. I felt like it was

648
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: not super empowering, but it was something I felt compelled

649
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: to not stay silent about. I'm not here to like

650
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: glorify assault or like share my wounds. I feel like

651
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: there's something very perverse about this performance of I want

652
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: you to know the details of every person who's ever

653
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: crossed those boundaries with me. That's voyeuristic. You know at

654
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: its core that I'm going to share those details with

655
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: the people who I have intimate relationships in my life

656
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: as I feel they weren't sharing and no further you

657
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So there's something weird about how

658
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: I how I left this campaign feeling, I don't think

659
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: you're alone at all. And actually, um, someone wrote into

660
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: one of my favorite advice columns Slates Dear Prudence, and

661
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,479
Speaker 1: they wrote in feeling angry and triggered and just really

662
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: upset by the whole meat to campaigns. So she writes

663
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: about how this campaign was feeling really triggering for her

664
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,439
Speaker 1: as a rape survivor. Her boss posted on Facebook about

665
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: how quote proud he was of all the women sharing

666
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: their stories, and she writes, at the same time, I

667
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: want to respond. I want to tell people that survivors

668
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: don't owe them their stories. I don't want people to

669
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: come away from this display of mutual pain and think

670
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: that by posting a hashtag they've done enough. I'm feeling

671
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: really grossed out by all the men who seems to

672
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: have never realized this was a thing until now. I

673
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: understand how people will want to pose, but it makes

674
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: me furious. I just feel like everything I've gone through

675
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: has been reduced down to hashtag so I can tran

676
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: done social media, and so I think You're not alone

677
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,439
Speaker 1: and feeling like this is this weird, heavy burden where

678
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: you're supposed to slit open your wounds for the world

679
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: to see. Not everybody feels like that's going to be

680
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: an empowering or helpful thing. In their life, and I

681
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: think that should be respected exactly, not to mention how

682
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: triggering this could be, having multiple people talking about their

683
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: trauma and their pain, how triggering this could be for

684
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: someone who is dealing with this that kind of thing.

685
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that the day that we were

686
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: talking about Weinstein all day on a loop, I had

687
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: to I had to leave early because I was just like,

688
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: I can't stop thinking about this, and it's all I

689
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: can think about. I think we should take a break

690
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: because I'm getting enraged and pressed all over again, first

691
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: of all, but second of all, the good news is

692
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: that there are things we can do about this right

693
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: that there are good people who are taking action on

694
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: these issues that we can join forces with. And the

695
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: hashtag was just the start of the conversation. The hashtag

696
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: is by no means the end of activist momentum on this.

697
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: It's just the beginning. And as a Woody Allen I believe,

698
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: came to the defense of Weinstein saying, I hope this

699
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: doesn't trigger a witch hunt. That is exactly what I'm

700
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: hoping for. Let's talk more about that after a quick break,

701
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 1: and we're back. We were just getting very righteously angry

702
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: about the state of sexual assault and sexual harassment that

703
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: we're dealing with here in this country, which is appalling. UM,

704
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: We've been talking a lot about Hollywood and media, but

705
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: it's important to point out that in no way is

706
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: sexual assault and sexual harassment just regulated to those fields.

707
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: And so I've actually been really really interested to see

708
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: how this Weinstein case has seemingly opened the doors to

709
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: other industries having people be called out with their toxic behavior.

710
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: And so earlier this week we saw Mark Helpriate at

711
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: NBC have a handful of accusations from women that you

712
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: worked with at NBC and ABC. UM, just to be

713
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: on the record that he masturbated in front of an

714
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: ABC News employee in his office and then violently threw

715
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: another woman against a restaurant window before attempting to kiss her.

716
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: So I just want to make sure like people know

717
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: that if those are the kinds of behaviors you hope

718
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: won't cause you to be the center of a witch hunt,

719
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: think again, because I am excited and motivated for this

720
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: witch hunt because this is the kind of bs that

721
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: we need to call out and people like that should

722
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: not be able to get away with that. As Linda

723
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: West wrote in The New York Times hunt and we're

724
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: hunting you. It's it's like, oh, I just masturbated in

725
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: front of my work. I masturbated in front of a

726
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: co worker and throw her up against the wall and

727
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 1: try to kiss her, and not such emotional women are overreacting.

728
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: Oh my god. M Also, if you listen to our

729
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley episode, you know that sexual harassment for IT

730
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: tech employees is a is a real problem, and so

731
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: earlier this week we saw blogger and former Microsoft Tech

732
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: evangelist Robert Scobel get some pretty intense allegations from women

733
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: saying that he grouped them, that he would attack them,

734
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: and he ended up sort of blaming alcoholism for those

735
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: for that behavior. That's sad, real, but also not an excuse.

736
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't alcoholism and addiction issues cause a

737
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 1: whole host of things and people's lives. But I think

738
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: he can be both like, oh, he has a serious

739
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: mental health problem. He needs help, and you're gonna have

740
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 1: to actually like be responsible for your own actions anyway, exactly. Actually,

741
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: just yesterday, Kevin spacey Um, he came out that he

742
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: had made advances to an actor who was just fourteen

743
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: at the time, and you know, people have been there's

744
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: been rumors about him for the longest time that he's

745
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: been kind of a toxic, predatory person. And I think

746
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: that it just goes to show you that it's not

747
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 1: just women, it's it's a prevalent issue for all kinds

748
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: of folks. Well, and I guess the community is up

749
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: in arms today because his response it was sort of

750
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: excuse me, I'm gay, Like I'm going to use that

751
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: as the shield. Yeah, being a gay man and making

752
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 1: a sexual advance toward a child, those are two different things.

753
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm almost horrified that you would try to

754
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 1: conflate them, Like that's almost like a that's a pr

755
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: strategy that is so sleazy and toxic that I can't

756
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: even believe that someone told him that was a good

757
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: idea that like, oh, I will excuse myself trying to

758
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 1: make a sexual advance toward a literal child by saying

759
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: I'm gay. What no, no, no, no no no, kind

760
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,439
Speaker 1: of like saying you're sweet old president too, right, which

761
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: president kind of like George H. W. Bush who last

762
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: week after it was made clear that he regularly tells

763
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: dirty jokes and then pinches the bottoms of young women

764
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: posing in photos next to the former president. His team

765
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: released a statement saying, he's just a sweet old guy

766
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: who does, in fact pinch women's bottom. That's what I

767
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: found so weird, saying he does kind of a break.

768
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: That's the thing, that he's a charming old man who

769
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: pinches bottoms, And we were all just like, what are

770
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: you kidding me? And that just goes to show you

771
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: how far we have to go in this conversation. It's

772
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: not just about me too. In a world where the

773
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: perpetrators would like your status. It's apparently defining what consent

774
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: is again and again, and not just for college boys,

775
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: president grownass men like George H. W. Bush knowing that

776
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: you can't hide behind you're sort of senile behavior as

777
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: being an excuse. So as you've been saying, which I

778
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: think it goes to show that this is not relegated

779
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: to any single industry, It is not relegated to people

780
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: of any single sexual orientation. Um. It has everything to

781
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: do with power, and it has a lot to do

782
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 1: with what's happening at work, because when people are using

783
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 1: their professional power and influence for a means to course

784
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: you into sexual activity that is non consensual, then it's

785
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 1: especially disgusting going off that. Something I found really really

786
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: gonna be telling about how bad a situation we're in

787
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: with this is that earlier this month, BuzzFeed put out

788
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: a call they wanted to know who are the heart

789
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: of the wine scenes of your industry? So if you're

790
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, a mathematician, who is the guy that everyone

791
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: knows as a creep that has been getting away with it?

792
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: And I was when I saw that, I was like, yeah, great,

793
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: like out these creeps totally like let's do this. I'm in.

794
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: That ended up sort of spinning off into what they

795
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: called the Media Men List, And this was a crowdsourced

796
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: Google doc where it had dozens and dozens of names

797
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: of men who had done various inappropriate things and these things.

798
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: And I should say it's all allegations. The list makes

799
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: it very clear that, um, you know, take the list

800
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: with the grain of salt because it's just anonymous allegations,

801
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: so you know, know that going in. But what I

802
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: found really telling the about this list is that it

803
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: ranges from things like sliding into someone's d m s

804
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: and being weird to outright you know, assault or rape,

805
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: and then things that are not sexual in nature. Like

806
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: one of the people who was on the list is

807
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: a man who, while his inappropriate behavior was not sexual

808
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: in nature, it was like threatening and bullying, and so

809
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: it was things like intimidating interns and making them feel

810
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: like if they crossed him in some way that he

811
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: would retaliate against them. Well, it's funny because it sounds

812
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: like this is a tale as old as time, right,

813
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: like influence power wielding that influence in power. It happens

814
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: every day. It happens everything, and some of it is

815
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: illegal and some of it's not totally so it is

816
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, I can almost hear the the outcry of

817
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: that group that Trump met with which we covered in

818
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: the Sexual that's right when we were tackling title nine,

819
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: the mothers of accused I'm sorry, falsely accused rapists whose

820
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: lives have been ruined because some girl regretted a night

821
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: with their boyfriend basically, And I can hear those folks

822
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: lighting up there tiki torches already, because torches the line

823
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: between white supremacists and my son. You know, yeah, I

824
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: can almost like hear the beads of sweat forming on

825
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: those folks as brows, because if you think about it,

826
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: the democratization of gossip through the Internet can be used powerfully,

827
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: and some might argue can be used as a form

828
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: of influence and blacklisting, and it can be used in

829
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: a retaliatory way, just like we're trying to prevent. Now,

830
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm not here saying that that's what that lists about,

831
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: but I get the Woody Allen fear of a witch hunt,

832
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: and at the same time, I think we need a

833
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: lot more of that kind of exposure. Well, I actually

834
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: have often argued that the reason why we are seeing

835
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: these kinds of watershed moments is exactly because of things

836
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: like social media. When you look at Cosby's situation, I

837
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: think that Cosby came from an era air It's old Hollywood,

838
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: where you can call someone's pr agent and say, hey,

839
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: this story, can we have it killed? It's really gonna

840
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: be bad for us, And we would never be privy

841
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: to any of that because those power players are wealth,

842
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 1: be connected and all of that, And so that's happening

843
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: in rooms where most of us will probably never be.

844
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 1: And I think with things like Twitter, it has democratized

845
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: people's voices and so people who largely did not have

846
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: a platform, did not have a voice, can say hey,

847
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: like this happened to me, Hey this wasn't okay. And

848
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: a PR person can't call Twitter and say hey, can

849
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: you kill this story? That's not how Twitter works. And

850
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: so it's kind of this reclaiming of power and influence

851
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: and voice and giving it a sort of a more

852
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: level playing field where I'll never forget when that story

853
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: bubbled up again, there was no one to call. There

854
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: was no PR person that you could call to make

855
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: everybody stop tweeting about it. It It just was. It existed.

856
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: And I don't think you saw that before. That is

857
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 1: such a good point, and I think it's just goes

858
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: to show you that when women, especially but but survivors

859
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 1: of assaults across the gender spectrum get together, like your

860
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: voice can be powerful. And that's what we saw with

861
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: Me Too. But Me Too is just the beginning. And

862
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 1: so solidarity and unified front and sort of acknowledging each

863
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 1: other's differences and the unity is going to be really

864
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: critical to make this movement an effective campaign for change.

865
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 1: I could not agree more and so we didn't want

866
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: to end without giving you some resources if you're finding

867
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 1: yourself dealing with sexual soult or sexual harassment in general

868
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 1: or in the workplace. Here are a couple of resources

869
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: that you should know that you have at your disposal.

870
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: UM One is a great organization that I know and

871
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: love is the National Women's Law Center. Their number is

872
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: two O two eight five one eight. That's two O

873
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: two eight five one eighty, and they're really helpful in

874
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: terms of coming up with legal resources. If you want

875
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: to take legal action against someone who is breaking the

876
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: law or or treating you in a way that's inappropriate,

877
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: and you want to know what your legal resources are,

878
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: there are a great, great, great resource for you. And furthermore,

879
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: don't forget to check out the e see the Equal

880
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: Employment Opportunity Commission, who we are always giving a little

881
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: shout out too because our little labor organizer blood in

882
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: US can't can't help but mention how influential they have become.

883
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: And yes, they are part of the government, so this

884
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: is us relying on our taxpayer dollars and actually cashing

885
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: in on some of that investment. You can contact them

886
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: at one eight hundred six six nine four thousand, that's

887
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: one eight hundred six six nine four thousand and search

888
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 1: their website. At eo C dot gov for more. So,

889
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: sminty listeners, we want to hear from you. This is

890
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: obviously the issue that many many, many of us are

891
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: dealing with. How's it showing up in your life? How

892
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: did you feel about the me to campaign? Was it

893
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: something that you participated in? Why or why not? How

894
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 1: did you feel about it? If you're a dude, did

895
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: you take part in campaigns like him though? Or I

896
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,919
Speaker 1: did that? How did that go for you? We really

897
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: want to hear how these campaigns are showing up in

898
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: your spaces. Yeah, I also want to hear where do

899
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: you want to see this go? Are you down for

900
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: the witch hunt you know what I mean? Like? Or

901
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: are you fearful of this becoming an infringement on equal

902
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: justice under the law? You know like? Is the power

903
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: of gossip in the workplace being harnessed productively? Or do

904
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: you fear its accusations? Run them up? I'm intrigued by

905
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: how nuanced our path forward really can be, and I'd

906
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: love to hear from you, brilliant listeners on what action

907
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: you plan on taking. So get in touch with us

908
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: on Instagram? Where at stuff mom? Ever? Told you? On Twitter?

909
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: We're at mom Stuff podcast, and we love reading your

910
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:40,760
Speaker 1: emails at mom stuff at how stuff works dot com