1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to the Bloomberg 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: This Weekend Podcast with David Gura, Christina Raffini, and Lisa Matteo. 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us for today's selection of conversations from 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: the show. 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 3: You can listen to our favorite discussions right here on 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 3: the podcast, but also make sure to join us live 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 3: every Saturday and Sunday morning, starting at seven am Easter. 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 4: We're on Bloomberg Television, Radio and the Bloomberg Business App, 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 4: bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 4: lifestyle and culture. 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: The driving story this morning morning continue to cover his 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: Vice President Jade Vance is in Switzerland meeting with delegates 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 3: from ron At, Pakistan and Cutter. 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, President hosting just moments ago on truth Social Iran 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: must immediately stop their highly paid proxies in Lebanon from 16 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: causing trouble. If they don't, we'll hit Aron hard, very hard, 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: just like we did last week, only harder. Following three 18 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: exclamation points, signed President Donald J. 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 4: Trump. 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Bastian Venreith Riith is live at the summit. Bastian, 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: I want to go back to in a minute, the 22 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 2: inconvenience for those mediators of having the president tweeting things 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 2: out like this while they're in the room. But first 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about the photo op 25 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: we saw earlier. David and I were talking about it 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: was very odd because you had all these individuals step 27 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: into a room where they have seats, they have microphones, 28 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 2: they have places they're supposed to go. But we didn't 29 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: see the Iranian delegation. We saw the Pakistanis, the Kataris, 30 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: and the Americans then pass this microphone back and forth. 31 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:36,839 Speaker 4: That was what we saw. 32 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 2: We now have some reporting from a quasi official Iranian 33 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: news agency tell us what happened there and how that 34 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: sequence of events went down and how it's kind of 35 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: indicative of what happens when you throw in these things 36 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: together at last minute. 37 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 5: Now, what we saw was like, as you said, the 38 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 5: denegations from Katap Pakistan and the US US represented time 39 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 5: Vice President Van Yeah, passive microphone back and forth and 40 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 5: spoke and you saw the Iranian and boy entered the 41 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 5: room briefly and then go out again. So and that 42 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 5: definitely did not look planned. We had then heard this 43 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 5: reporting which you which you are citing, that the Iranians 44 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 5: did not want to basically do a shared photo with 45 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 5: the American today, like said, we didn't want this, and 46 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 5: this is how this has happened. Now, this confirms definitely 47 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 5: that these things, particularly the public pictures, are highly contentious. 48 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 6: Here. 49 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 5: We have been hearing all day like that this has 50 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 5: there has been wrangling behind the scenes on this, like 51 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 5: on the pictures. However, positive to to enter on a 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 5: even a positive note. Apparently after the cameras went off 53 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 5: and the reporters left the room, also parties went to talk. 54 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 5: You said that like in this room you had seats 55 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 5: for everyone, and cameras went off and the seats were 56 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 5: filled and all four including the Iranians, started actually talks. 57 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 4: All right, that's some goodness. 58 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 3: Let me ask you lastly just about the role that 59 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 3: Switzerland is playing here. So so we talk about the kind 60 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: of disagreement over sort of what these photo ops will 61 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: look like. I guess I would assume that the host 62 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 3: country would be playing some role here in kind of 63 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: establishing the contours of the conversation. What's going to happen, 64 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 3: Who's going to be meeting with whom? Is Switzerland playing 65 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 3: an active role here? Is this really being left to 66 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 3: the Pakistanis and the qataris. 67 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 7: No. 68 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 5: I think Switzerland is at least trying to play an 69 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 5: active role. We know that the memoranda of understanding itself 70 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 5: was mainly broker by Pakistan. However, the Swiss because they 71 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 5: are the ones who ran the back channel between Iran 72 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 5: and the US because there's no official diplomatic relations between 73 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 5: the countries, and the Swiss have been involved from the start, 74 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 5: and the Swiss Foreign Minister has had bilateral meetings with everyone. 75 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 5: He talked to the Iranians this morning and he afterwards 76 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 5: gave out a statement saying he talked about like how 77 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 5: this memorandum understanding can be translated into actionable steps. 78 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: That's what we appreciate it. Thanks for coming back filling 79 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: us in on what's been transpiring there. Best in Ben 80 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: reth Wright joining us from Lake Lucer in Switzerland. 81 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 4: World. This is unfolding. 82 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 3: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. Right 83 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 3: after this. 84 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: Okay, back to the UK now with Andy Burnham Winnie 85 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: a parliamentary seat on Thursday. Kure. Starmer has been under 86 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: immense political pressure to step down as UK Prime Minister, 87 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: though he said publicly he will not walk away from 88 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: a leadership contest. It does appear now that may not 89 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: be the case. 90 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: Earlier this morning, UK Minister Peter Kyle told Sky News 91 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: that Starmer was reflecting on the political realities he finds 92 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 3: himself in. Guardian also reporting that it is expected that 93 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 3: Starmer will announce his departure on Monday. From More and 94 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 3: Keir Starmer and his potential resignation from London. We are 95 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 3: joined by Daybreak here Banker Lizzie Burton. Lizzie, great to 96 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 3: see you. We are trying to navigate all of this 97 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 3: over the course of the morning, including the wild and 98 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: dilations of British politics. I mentioned Peter Kyle a moment ago. 99 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: You had a marquee moment with him about a week 100 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: ago when you broke the news to him the Defense 101 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: Secretary was leaving Kir Starmer's cabinet. 102 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 4: Talk about his role in the way. 103 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 3: In which we are getting some insight here into the 104 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 3: kind of tenuous position that Kir Starmer is in. 105 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 8: Well, thank you David for having me. Pig to Kyle, 106 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 8: the Business Secretary is an arch loyalist of Kir Starmer's 107 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 8: and when we had that conversation he was convinced that 108 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 8: Kir Starmer wasn't going anywhere. It is a very different 109 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 8: tone we're hearing from the Business Secretary this morning, as 110 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 8: you say, talking about the Prime Minister considering the political realities. 111 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 8: He is at his official country residence of Czechers this weekend. 112 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 8: It's been said that he wanted to talk to his 113 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 8: wife and digest the situation over the weekend. You cite 114 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 8: that observer report many in the media now here speculating 115 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 8: that the podium is going to be outside Number ten 116 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 8: Downing Street tomorrow and Starmer expected to lay out a 117 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 8: timetable for his resignation. 118 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: How do you see that timetable playing out. Do you 119 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: think that that will happen almost immediately or do you 120 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: see him setting up like kind of an extended exit 121 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: to make sure that there is structure in place and 122 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: a predecessor in place to come in after him. Given 123 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: how many prime ministers the UK has gone through in 124 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 2: the last couple of years in effort to find some 125 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 2: sort of stability there. 126 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 8: Yeah, Look, if we're going to get a new prime minister, 127 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 8: this would be the seventh in the ten years since 128 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 8: the Brexit nursery. It really makes you think that ironically 129 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 8: we are seeing the political instability that the continent was 130 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 8: once known for. In terms of that timetable ahead, it 131 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 8: depends who's going to be taking over. Is it going 132 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 8: to be Andy Burnham, the former mayor of Manchester who 133 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 8: won that seat in Northwest England and the boat on Thursday, 134 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 8: the result announced on Friday, or is it going to 135 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 8: still be a leadership contest not a coronation. So the 136 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 8: likes of Where Streeting the Health Secretary, may yet want 137 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 8: to throw their hat into the ring. But the Labor 138 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 8: Party might not want to have this chaos in unfolding 139 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 8: in front of the nation which the Conservatives remember were 140 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 8: known for under Boris Johnson, Liz Trust, Rishi Sunak. They 141 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 8: may want it to be more orderly and Keir Starmer 142 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 8: wanting to preserve his dignity. In terms of the timetable, 143 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 8: does it happen immediately, does it happen over a longer period. 144 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,679 Speaker 8: Andy Burnham might want to have the summer to set 145 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 8: out his policy agenda so that he can come in 146 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 8: as Prime Minister for the Labor Party conference in September. 147 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: I just keep thinking about the Liz Trust versus the 148 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: head of letters. Do we need to pick a different 149 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: pick a different produce here. 150 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: God Lizzie for those joining the program already in progress. 151 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 4: How did we get here? How did cure. 152 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 3: Starmers lose the faith of those in his part? 153 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 6: Pready? 154 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: How did his grip on governing become so loose? What 155 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 3: happened over the course of his tenure? 156 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 8: Well, of course, there has been the long concern that 157 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 8: he simply isn't charismatic enough to hold the attention of 158 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 8: his party and of the nation personally, his ratings have 159 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 8: been sliding. That landslide vote that he won back in 160 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 8: twenty twenty four see more as an anti conservative vote 161 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 8: than a pro Kiir Starmer vote. And then the difficulties 162 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 8: have only mounted. We had the Bloomberg investigation revealing the 163 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 8: connections between Peter Mandelson, the former UK ambassador to Washington, 164 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 8: Jeffrey Epstein, and the appointment process into Keir Starmer's government. 165 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 8: And then most recently we talked about the Defense Secretary 166 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 8: John Healey resigning. That was because Healey perceived that the 167 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 8: defense spending in a time of war was inadequate. And 168 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 8: then the real pressure has come in the past couple 169 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 8: of days because of Andy Burnham winning the special election 170 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 8: up North in England, whereby he won more votes than 171 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 8: all the other parties combined, So you can't argue that 172 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 8: he was simply the beneficiary of a split vote on 173 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 8: the right. And many Labor MPs now saying, is this 174 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 8: the man who should lead us into the next general 175 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 8: election against Nigel Farage's Reform UK Party. It seems like 176 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 8: to many of them Reform may have actually reached a 177 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 8: peak now. And that is a question that we're asking 178 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 8: because Andy Burnham was the face of Labor. It wasn't 179 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 8: a question that was being asked when Labor got pretty 180 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 8: much decimated in the local elections only in May. So 181 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 8: do they want to have a new leader going into 182 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 8: that general election? Well, according to our reporting, the majority 183 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 8: of Kirs Starmer's cabinet now want will they see it 184 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 8: isn't there but as inevitable that Starmer is going to 185 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 8: be replaced by Burnham, and that includes the Foreign Secretary 186 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 8: about Cooper. 187 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 7: That's interesting. 188 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about Burnham, but first 189 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to play you some sound from his victory speech. 190 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 6: We have an opportunity to turn the tide, to make 191 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 6: the country feel like it's working again, to make people 192 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 6: see that politics can make a positive difference to make 193 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 6: people feel hope. Again, that is the main thing I 194 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 6: think we need in this country right now for people 195 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 6: to feel a sense of hope. 196 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: Look, it's always easier to be the candidate than the principle, 197 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: but you mentioned that Curure Summer is deeply unpopular. One 198 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 2: of his big liabilities seems to be his inability to communicate. 199 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 2: People criticize him for just being boring and not being 200 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: able to get even the victories across. Is this something 201 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: Burnham does better and what are his potential liabilities. 202 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 8: That's what's the perception of Andy Burnham, that he is 203 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 8: somebody who is not necessarily more charismatic, but is just 204 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 8: a more normal guy. He's known as the King of 205 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 8: the North. He's been extremely popular as mayor of Greater Manchester. 206 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 8: The question is whether he can translate that on a 207 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 8: national scale, because he can't just be a professional Northerner 208 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 8: as the Prime Minister. He's got to represent the whole 209 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 8: of the United Kingdom. I should know, I'm an Orthern 210 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 8: of myself, but look for markets. Those comments when he 211 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 8: said that the Westminster shouldn't be in hoc to the 212 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 8: bond market are really difficult to forget. Since then he's 213 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 8: tried to walk that back. He said that he was 214 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 8: misunderstood that he would follow the Chancellor's fiscal rules, but 215 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 8: then his team privately saying that he wouldn't reappoint Rachel 216 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 8: Reeves as Chancellor when he's been mayor of Manchester. There's 217 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 8: talk of Manchester isn't. But that means many things to 218 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 8: many people. It could mean more collaboration between the public 219 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 8: and private sectors. It could mean more devolution to local governments. 220 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 8: But again, he isn't going to be in local government, 221 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 8: so is he going to really want that. There's an 222 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 8: old joke in Westminster that a Brownite, a blair Wite, 223 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 8: a Corbynite walk into a bar and the bartender says, 224 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 8: what are you having, mister Burnham? Because over his long 225 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 8: career in politics, he has worn many hats under the 226 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 8: different previous leaders of the Labor Party. We just don't 227 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 8: know which Andy Burnham we would get. But if he 228 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 8: is saying that he's going to have all this change 229 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 8: when it comes to his team and his policy, his 230 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 8: mandate is going to come into questions. So do we 231 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 8: need another general election? 232 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate 233 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: you taking the time. Lizziburton. She is our anchor of 234 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: Daybreak Europe. Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. 235 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 2: Right after this, all right, The twenty twenty six New 236 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: York primary election is coming up on Tuesday, with a 237 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: lot of important seats up for grab. Early voting opened 238 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: on June thirteenth, and as of this morning, according to 239 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 2: vote ny see, the total number of early check ins 240 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 2: for the primary is already over one hundred and thirty 241 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: five thousand. Join us now for more on what to 242 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: expect from that upcoming primary. Is Politico. New York State 243 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 2: politics reporter Jason Bieferman is here in the studio. All right, Jason, 244 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: we've been knee deep in Iran and Mid East politics 245 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 2: for quite some time, So catch up, Catch us up. 246 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: What are the races that are important? What do we 247 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 2: need to be watching here? 248 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 9: I think the theme for Tuesday is going to be 249 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 9: Zorn Mamdani's influence. We have a bunch of congressional races, 250 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 9: particularly in New York City, where it's a battle between 251 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 9: the Democratic Socialists of America and Zorn Mamdani and you know, 252 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 9: kind of like the Democratic establishment. So we have Claire Valdez, 253 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 9: who is a long time ally of Zoron, up against 254 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 9: Antonio Renoso in Brooklyn. We have Dan Goldman, the incumbent 255 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 9: of against Brad Lander. He was supported by Zoron in 256 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 9: the mayoral and again for the congressional. And we have 257 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 9: Adriano Espyot, the chair of the congressional Hispanic Caucus, up 258 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 9: against a late surging potentially a big upset in Daria 259 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 9: Lisa Avila Chavilare, and she was also endorsed by Zorin. 260 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 9: So it's a really test of Mamdannie's influence. And we're 261 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 9: gonna We're gonna find out. 262 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: Let me sit with the New York ten my congressional district, 263 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 3: Brad Lander out and about at the Prospect Park suire 264 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 3: last night where I might have been in attendance, and 265 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: you know, I'm not going to show them on television 266 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 3: so around this night. But I bring it up because 267 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 3: Christina Rightley asking, we're talking about Aron, We're talking about 268 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 3: foreign palsy. This is a race one of several, I 269 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: think where issues of foreign policy have had a huge 270 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 3: influence on sort. 271 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 4: Of what voters are voting voting for when they go 272 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 4: to the polls. 273 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 7: This week. 274 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 9: That's right, and it's not just Brad Landers race. It's 275 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 9: also even in Claire Valdez versus Antonio Reinoso. You have 276 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 9: two people who both call Israel what's happening in Gaza 277 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 9: a genocide, but Claire is saying to Antonio, well, you 278 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 9: didn't call it a genocide soon enough. And that's really 279 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 9: kind of like I think describes the mood in Brooklyn 280 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 9: right now, where you have this surge of progressive voters 281 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,239 Speaker 9: that came out for Zoron and they are really animated 282 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 9: by this issue. Even in s Biot's district, you have 283 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 9: people accusing Super Packs of being funded by APAK, or 284 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 9: if you took money from a donor who also donated 285 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 9: to APAK, then all of a sudden that money is tainted. 286 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 9: And you're right, it is an extremely animating issue, almost 287 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 9: more so than domestic issues like benefits or how or 288 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 9: public housing things like that. It's wild. 289 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: It's so interesting the opposite of all politics are local 290 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: at the moment, all politics are everything. I'm also wondering 291 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot throughout this primary season about 292 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: the Trump endorsement and whether or not these Republican moderates 293 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: getting primary to. 294 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 4: The right is going to hurt them in the general election. 295 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: I think I want to ask the reverse question to you, 296 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: is getting the Mamdami endorsement may get you the primary, 297 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: but is that going to become a liability for Democrats 298 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: when they go to run the bigger race. 299 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 9: You know, Zorin hasn't endorsed any Democrat who's facing a 300 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 9: competitive general election. We have some copetitive general elections, particularly 301 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 9: in New York seventeen Mike Lawler in Westchester and Rockland. 302 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 9: We have Laura Gillen and Tom Swasey on Long Island. 303 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 9: But I think zorn first of all, they're. 304 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 4: Not so scry. 305 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: They are mostly seats where it comes down to who 306 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: gets the primary win and then you're pretty much a 307 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: FATA company going to win the seat. 308 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 9: Yeah, and it's almost like the favorite or the competitive 309 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 9: Democrats in those battleground districts. Zoron's not going to want 310 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 9: to endorse them anyway, because they're not anti billionaire socialist 311 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 9: free buses and grocery stores. So that's probably multiple reasons 312 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 9: why they're not going to endorse each other. 313 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 3: Let's hear from the mayor himself. You have a clip 314 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: of him talking about his slate of candidates, the art team, 315 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 3: our year slights, take a list of what he had 316 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: to say. 317 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: Now. 318 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 10: People often ask me what I think of the state 319 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 10: of the Democratic Party. This slate here today is our answer. 320 00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 10: The Democratic Party must change. The party of the past 321 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 10: will not be what leads us into the future. For 322 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 10: we need a Democratic Party with backbone. 323 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 3: Jason here, we are not even a year in his mayoralty, 324 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 3: and I'm curious with what we know now about Mayor 325 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 3: mc donnie as kind of a larger Democratic figure. There 326 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 3: was this tendency during the primary in the general election 327 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 3: to say, like, you see the leader of the Democratic Party, 328 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 3: what role is he playing here? But as he amasses 329 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 3: the slate of candidates and talks about in broad philosophical 330 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: turns what the party should be doing, how is he. 331 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 4: Filling that vacuum? 332 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 3: What is the role that he's playing now with the 333 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 3: Democratic Party broadly? 334 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 9: You know, it's not just in Congress in DC, it's 335 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 9: also in the state legislature here in New York. He's 336 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 9: backing a number of state lawmakers to try to change 337 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 9: the makeup of the state legislature, the laws we pass 338 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 9: in New York. And you know, I think he sees 339 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 9: his ambitions as broader than New York. He's going on 340 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 9: streams with Hassan Piker, and you know the Washington Post 341 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 9: reporter that he was going to meet with the Colombian 342 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 9: President Petro So. He sees his project as bigger. But 343 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 9: he's definitely he's not afraid to get into the weeds 344 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 9: and back the local assembly candidate or the local state senator. 345 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 9: And I think he really wants the New York Democratic 346 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 9: Party to be more socialists, more like Bernie Sanders' vision. 347 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: You mentioned Mike Wahler, who we found the show a 348 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: couple of times. How vulnerable is that seat? 349 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 9: I would say it's one of the most vulnerable seats 350 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 9: in the country. And he knows that, or it seems 351 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 9: like he knows that. You know, he's only why do 352 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 9: you say that he's only one of three Republicans that 353 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 9: held onto their seat when their district voted for Kamala Harris. 354 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 9: A lot of these battleground congressional districts, when you break 355 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 9: it down, they voted for Trump in twenty twenty four. 356 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 9: His district voted by Kamala Harris by a Hare and 357 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 9: Cook political report. They used to say was lean Republican. 358 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 9: Now it's a toss up, so they've assessed that it's 359 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 9: even more competitive than just lean Republican. I think he's scared. 360 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 9: He's getting involved in that Democratic primary. He's meddling a 361 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 9: little bit. He wants to pick his opponent. We'll see 362 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 9: if that works. 363 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 4: Out for him. It's a gamble. 364 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 3: We got about a minute left, but this is a 365 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 3: very crowded primary in that congressions. We got five candidates 366 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: who are buying for the chance to go up against him. 367 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 4: Is there a clear front runner? 368 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 9: Kate Conley, She's an army veteran. She's from DC. She 369 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 9: used to work in Biden's White House and counter and 370 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 9: counter terrorism. She's getting an attacks from Lawler. Lawler's trying 371 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 9: to attack her. All the other Democrats are attacking her. 372 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 2: The problem she's the biggest companies. 373 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 9: This seems like that one liability she has is that 374 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 9: she moved to the district just a month before announcing 375 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 9: her campaign. So I'm sure that when we get to 376 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 9: the general, if she wins, she's going to get a 377 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 9: lot of carpet bagging accusations. 378 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 5: There you go. 379 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,959 Speaker 3: Jason Beefroman of Political Thank you very much, covers New 380 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 3: York politics for Politico. 381 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 4: And stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend. 382 00:19:51,680 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 4: Right after this, welco back to Bloomberg this weekend. 383 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 3: Next month, the FDA will hold a summer meeting to 384 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: consider easing restrictions on certain peptide injections. Wellness enthusiasts biohackers 385 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 3: swear by them. They are synthetic strings of amino acids 386 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 3: that users say can help with everything from tendinitis to 387 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 3: getting a tan. Health and Human Service As Secretary of 388 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 3: RFK Junior, a fan of fixing tendonyes and tans as well, 389 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 3: said this to Joe Rogan. 390 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 11: I mean, I'm a big fan of peptides. I've used 391 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 11: them myself and used them with really good effect, you know, 392 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 11: with a couple of injuries. 393 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: In the Biden Eric compounding pharmacies were effectively banned from 394 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: producing several peptides that pushed a lot of users underground. 395 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: But that could be changing. 396 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 11: You have no idea, and a lot of this stuff 397 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 11: that we've looked at is just, you know, is very 398 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 11: very substandard. Oh, I'm very anxious to move not probably 399 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 11: not all of those peptides. Some of them are in litigation, 400 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 11: but about fourteen of them back to making them more accessible. 401 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 11: My hope is that they're going to get moved to 402 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 11: a plaze. Well, people have access from ethical suppliers. 403 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: So how is this market preparing to move out of 404 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: the shadows? Bloomberg business Week senior writer Amanda Mall has 405 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: a new piece looking at the billion dollar peptide gold rush. 406 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I do want to say to you, I 407 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 2: do know someone who did one of these legally gray. 408 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: I wasn't really sure if it was legal or not 409 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: kind of peptide injections a couple of years ago, and 410 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 2: now they were just telling me they can go get 411 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: the same thing essentially somewhere else, and it seems to 412 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: be more above board. So can you talk to us 413 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: about the landscape of what this all looks like at 414 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: the moment and where it's going. 415 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 12: Yes, well, at the moment, everything is still pretty black market, 416 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 12: pretty illegal to be compounded in a licensed compounding pharmacy. 417 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 12: But what we've seen over the past few years is 418 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 12: a lot of drug suppliers in the US being more 419 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 12: open minded about how they follow those regulations, shall we say, 420 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 12: because there is a lot of signaling from the Trump 421 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 12: administration from RFK Junior in particular, that there is that 422 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 12: there is interest in making these medications legally available in 423 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 12: the US through compounding pharmacies. A lot of suppliers are saying, well, 424 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 12: we're probably not going to be enforced against right now, 425 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 12: so why don't we get into this a little bit 426 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 12: early and start building our customer base. 427 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 3: Basically, Amana, what does this economy look like? I mean, 428 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 3: I'm still flabbergas that people are so willing to just 429 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 3: inject themselves with stuff. It seems like they are. But 430 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 3: kind of money are we talking about here? And so 431 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 3: were this to be opened up by regulators to sort 432 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 3: of have a more less gray, more clear space for 433 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 3: this stuff, how much money are we talking about? 434 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 12: Well, the back of the napkin math on the current 435 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 12: state of the peptide market in the US. The black 436 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 12: market itself is about a billion to two billion dollars 437 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 12: based on the folks that we talk to for the story, 438 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 12: and it could double triple. It could get a lot 439 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 12: bigger if this group of fourteen peptides that AREFK referenced 440 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 12: in the earlier clip is made legal to compound. So 441 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 12: we're talking about billions and billions of dollars in potential 442 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 12: upside for people who are fast movers into the space 443 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 12: in potentially the very near future. 444 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: Can you remind us what qualifies as peptides, Like what 445 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: are the most popular ones we're talking about and what 446 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 2: do they do right? 447 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 12: A lot of the reasons that peptide drugs have become 448 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 12: so interesting to so many people is that GLP one 449 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 12: drugs are peptide drugs. The P in GLP one stands 450 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 12: for peptide, so and they are of course legal, widely available, safe, 451 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 12: and extremely effective. So you've got millions of people in 452 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 12: the US currently on one of these drugs, and then 453 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 12: you've got their friends, family members, co workers looking at 454 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 12: them and going wow, they've lost a ton of weight. 455 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 12: They say that they feel incredible. They obviously these work. 456 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 12: So what other kinds of peptide drugs are out there? Like, 457 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 12: you have this class of legal and highly effective drug 458 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 12: that has made people go Okay, well if this is 459 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 12: so effective, like maybe self injected drugs at home are 460 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 12: the future of health. So you have an example of 461 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 12: something that is that we know to be safe, and 462 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 12: then you have all of these other substances that have 463 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 12: been over the years developed or experimented with by researchers 464 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 12: or drug companies that are out there that like the 465 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 12: structure of them is publicly available, and so you've got 466 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 12: suppliers overseas and sellers in the US going, well, what 467 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:41,959 Speaker 12: harm could it do? 468 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: We have a crazy graphic showing the increase of some 469 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 2: of these drugs, the volume increase twelve thousand percent from 470 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three eight to twenty twenty five. And I'm wondering, 471 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 2: to David's point, if part of that is just the 472 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 2: barrier to getting people to jab themselves with needles has 473 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: really really come down, because it used to be basically, 474 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: you know, if you were doing IVF, if you were diabetic, 475 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 2: if you had a complicated medical situation, those are the 476 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 2: only people who I knew were regularly using needles from 477 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 2: a pharmacy. The rest of us, that's something you would 478 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: go to the doctor for. Now, you know, I know 479 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 2: so many people who are on GLP ones, and then 480 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 2: I know so many people who have started ordering them 481 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: from compounding pharmacies where you don't even get the little 482 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: hidden needle injector. You get literal vials and syringes, and 483 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: people seem kind of used to this, So this is 484 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 2: that one of the biggest barriers or are there other 485 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: reasons you's have seen such an uptick all of a sudden. 486 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 12: I think that the sort of collective population level comfort 487 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 12: with self injection is a huge element in all of this. 488 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 12: In the early days of developing the drug that came 489 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 12: to be ozepic, drug companies were sort of unsure if 490 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 12: going forward with this kind of drug would even be 491 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 12: worth it on a financial level, because there was such 492 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 12: a belief that, you know, nobody is self injecting at 493 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 12: home unless it's like an existential thing, unless it's insulin 494 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 12: in order to continue living things like that. So, you know, 495 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 12: we have come a really really long way in our 496 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 12: understanding of the population level willingness to self inject. And 497 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 12: I think that that goes back once again to GLP 498 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 12: one drugs and people going you know, it's apparently it 499 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 12: is safe and effective to inject these things at home, 500 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 12: and people are getting over their fear of needles. And 501 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 12: on top of that, you also have the MEDSPA phenomenon, 502 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 12: where again you have things like botox and filler where 503 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 12: you get a quick, highly effective, visible result from an 504 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 12: injection and a lot of people either have have had 505 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 12: these types of injections themselves or no people who get 506 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 12: them all the time. So the mystique of self injection 507 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 12: and of needles in general has just it's a lot 508 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 12: less scary to a lot to a lot more people. 509 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 3: Man, we've talked a lot about kind of the compounding 510 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 3: pharmacy side of things. If I'm an executive at a 511 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 3: major pharmaceutical company spending many billions of dollars to develop 512 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 3: traditional pharmaceuticals, how close do I paying attention this? How 513 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 3: much is this of interest to me? How much am 514 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: I think of this is something that could really disrupt 515 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 3: the kind of drug landscape more broadly. 516 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 12: I think you're paying attention to it quite closely because 517 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 12: you've got a couple elements involved here. You've got like 518 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 12: a clear market signal that there is like wide consumer 519 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 12: demand for a particular type of medication. But then you've 520 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 12: also got a signal in the market that they are 521 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 12: looking to get at other places, that they are looking 522 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 12: to get it cheap, that they are looking to get 523 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 12: it from, you know, in situations where they have to 524 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 12: mix it together themselves. So in compounding pharmacies, there's thousands 525 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 12: of them across the US. They play a lot of 526 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 12: roles in our medication supply in the US. But one 527 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 12: thing that they do is they can mix up a 528 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 12: lot of different types of medications and they can adjust 529 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 12: them to doctor prescriptions or patient needs. So you have 530 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 12: a you know, thousands of drug suppliers essentially across the 531 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 12: country that can sort of, you know, exclude you from 532 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 12: from all of these sales because these peptid drugs that 533 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 12: are being sold right now are sort of they don't 534 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 12: exist under patents where Big Pharma can sell them right now, 535 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 12: even if they were developed by them originally. 536 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 2: All right, I mane, We're gonna have to leave it there, 537 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 2: but it was fascinating. Thank you so much for joining us. 538 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 3: Stay with us for more on Bloomberg this weekend right 539 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 3: after this, on this Father's Day, some dads maybe content 540 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 3: with the day of golf, fishing, World Cup, perhaps anchoring 541 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: a morning show. 542 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 4: I'm just gonna throw that out there, but. 543 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: For some dads or dads to be who maybe need 544 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: a little help navigating fatherhood, you may find the how 545 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: to section of the bookstore a little sparse. Our next 546 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 2: guests sought out to change that. Writing in the weekend 547 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: essay fatherhood books are failing modern dads. We talked to 548 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: Kevin mcgo about what he thinks needs to change for. 549 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 4: This generation of dads. 550 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 7: We're undergoing just this significant shift in what it means 551 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 7: to be a dad today. 552 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 4: It's like we look at. 553 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 7: The generations of men who've come before us, and fatherhood 554 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 7: was really set in stone for the longest time. You know, 555 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 7: you're expected to provide, preside, and protect these kind of 556 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 7: three traditional anchors of fatherhood. And over the last generation 557 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 7: there's just been these fundamental shifts in what it means 558 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 7: to be a dad today. You know, in the US, 559 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 7: one third of marriages men and women aren the same. 560 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 7: In one sixth of marriages in the US, the woman 561 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 7: earns more. So, like just even you're looking at father's 562 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 7: soul provider as kind of what used to be a 563 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 7: bedrock of fatherhood. This has shifted. And you know, when 564 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 7: I was I've been a dad for twelve years. The 565 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 7: reason I can't be on the show is my daughter 566 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 7: turns twelve today. 567 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 4: Congratulations, you know. 568 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 7: Thank you. And what I've been seeing is just like 569 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 7: there is no there is no literature out there that 570 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 7: is reflecting this different version of fatherhood that we're all 571 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 7: kind of trying to navigate uncharted season. We're out there 572 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 7: without a map. 573 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 2: I wonder if that's bringing some of the resentment too, 574 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: because you have seen, especially here in the US, kind 575 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 2: of a backlash and this move towards, you know, going 576 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,959 Speaker 2: back to being more traditionally gender roles in the family, 577 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: and men are you know, talking about being needing to 578 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 2: be providers and that's their traditional jobs. Is part of 579 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: the problem that there isn't a really good blueprint for 580 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 2: the alternative. A lot of these books are still kind 581 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: of formed around those gender roles, and that's maybe making 582 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: it more difficult for men who might want to entertain 583 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 2: a new or different way to do that, to find space. 584 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 7: There are a lot of kind of like the solidifying 585 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 7: of these old gender roles, and definitely, you know, I 586 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 7: write a newsletter and the book is called The New Fatherhood, 587 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 7: and it's all about this this kind of different version 588 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 7: of fatherhood that we're trying to intentionally craft. But this 589 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 7: is a very kind of much more left progressive idea 590 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 7: than what is the traditional fatherhood that people is still 591 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 7: you know, reaching back and the like, we want a 592 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 7: time when men used to be men, and you know, 593 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 7: being a father was much simpler and easier because you know, 594 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 7: there wasn't really a lot of parenting that you had 595 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 7: to do. You were allowed to just you were allowed, 596 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 7: you were encouraged to just go back to work and 597 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 7: you would work on your job and that was it. 598 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 2: I know a lot of parents and dads who want 599 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 2: to do more, and I know a lot of moms 600 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: who are trying to navigate this too. You write about 601 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: how you think books for moms are very different than 602 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 2: books for dads. Why do you think that is what's 603 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 2: the issue there? 604 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 7: Well, I mean you talked to any any couple, and 605 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 7: a husband and a wife who are in any kind 606 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 7: of a disagreement will go into this similar pattern, which 607 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 7: is a wife will talk about a problem that is happening, 608 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 7: and a husband will immediately jump to how do I 609 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 7: fix it? And the books follow, the books that are 610 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 7: available for dad follow this thinking as well. It is 611 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 7: a series of checklists, it's a series of things that 612 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 7: you have to get through. And the kind of idea 613 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 7: is that these old books position fatherhood as something that 614 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 7: should be enjured and not enjoyed and now like and 615 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 7: those are the good fatherhood books now there are a 616 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 7: lot of bad ones, and the bad ones are all 617 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 7: kind of centered in this language of the survivalist's Guide 618 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 7: to fatherhood, the caveman's Guide to fatherhood, you know, like 619 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 7: how to get through like the initial six months. And 620 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 7: even this thinking leads men to it gives men permission 621 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 7: to just look at fatherhood as this idea of flight. Well, 622 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 7: I just have to if I get my head down 623 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 7: and I work hard, I'll be able to get through 624 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 7: the first twelve months of my kid's life. And like, 625 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 7: there is so much more opportunity out there, a mindset 626 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 7: shift that if we lean into it, we can see 627 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 7: fatherhood for this incredibly abundant time in our lives, not 628 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 7: just for a better relationship with our children, but newfound 629 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 7: levels of empathy that help us be better managers at work, 630 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 7: better leaders, better friends, better partners. But it kind of 631 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 7: has to come from the things that we're reading and 632 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 7: the conversation that we're having. 633 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 2: And I know there is irony here because you've written 634 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 2: a book called The New Fatherhood. But is there is 635 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: there something wrong with this genre? Because as the parents 636 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,239 Speaker 2: who are sitting next to me were saying, you can 637 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 2: read a million books, but each kid is different, each 638 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 2: family is different, each person's situation is different. What's the 639 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 2: best way to take into that advice? But then, kind 640 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 2: of as you're saying, enjoy the moment, enjoy your children, 641 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: and enjoy parenthood. 642 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 7: You know, I think about work as identity, as a 643 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 7: core thing, and know I write about this in the book, 644 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 7: I talk about this all the time, which is, you know, 645 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 7: historically men have passed on a they've passed on a career, 646 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 7: they've passed on a trade to their children. Historically they 647 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 7: pased it on to their sons, and they passed it 648 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 7: on with a surname. So you know, you look at Butcher, Spicer, Baker, Taylor, 649 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 7: there are all of these names, which was just literally 650 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 7: it was what you do, and you took that and 651 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 7: you gave it to your kids. And work formed this 652 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 7: core part of our identity and who we are for 653 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 7: so long, and now we're starting to realize that, well, 654 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 7: if all I am is the person I am inside 655 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 7: of work, well, if works doesn't start to go, well, 656 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 7: everything starts to fall apart. And what men are doing 657 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 7: now is they're looking at different avenues in their life 658 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 7: to find fulfillment and meaning, and they're realizing that the 659 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 7: tap that's marked family is so much more. You know, 660 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 7: you can turn it on and the fulfillment will come 661 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 7: gushing out versus the tap Mark's career. You can be 662 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 7: squeezing it for all its worth to just get like 663 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 7: a little bit of meaning out of it. 664 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on today's Bloomberg This Weekend podcast. 665 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 2: Don't forget to tune in live for the show every 666 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: Saturday and Sunday morning, starting at seven am Eastern. 667 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 3: We're on Bloomberg Television Radio and the Bloomberg Business App, 668 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 3: bringing you unique takes and in depth interviews on news, politics, lifestyle, 669 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 3: and culture.