WEBVTT - The Latest Science on Extreme Heat: How Hot Is Too Hot? 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:07.200 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.600 Zara Huge covers climate at Bloomberg and she recently had 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:14.960 the opportunity to take a trip to one of the 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.079 hottest places in the world. And I took an elevator 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.360 and upstairs in a university building. 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.920 Elevator comes out in a corner and if you turn 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.520 left in Canada, there's this long, tall hallway. 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.680 And all along that hallway is one of the world's 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:37.040 largest research facilities dedicated to studying the effects of heat 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:38.400 on the human body. 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.440 And we kind of just spent the day walking through 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.360 opening door number one, door number two, door number three. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.519 Behind each one, there were people doing all kinds of tests. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:49.599 How's that it off? 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:52.440 It's okay. 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.040 People like Janet Spencer. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.560 She's seventy five years old. She describes herself as a 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:04.240 vet her in of the lab. She's retired. Specifically, she's 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:08.119 a retired mediator for Canada's Human Rights Commission. 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:14.720 I never imagined did that be a guinea pig for size? 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.199 What temperature are we at? We're at thirty six degrees. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:25.319 So pretty warm for sure. Janet was doing what's called 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.800 a passive trial, where she was just sort of hanging 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.240 out in the heat. These can be full days. In March, 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.880 she was there for three days straight, which meant she 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.560 was sleeping in the room, and she described it as 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:38.520 watching a ton of Netflix. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.119 When Zara met Janet, she'd only been in the lab 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.200 for an hour, but she was already feeling the effects. 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.600 When I started, I brought my paper to read, and 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.520 I managed to read that in the first half hour. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.080 But right now, pretty much all I'm capable of is 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.320 playing mindless solitary games. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.600 Help down the hall. Bob Striker was doing a very 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.600 different kind of experiment. 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.080 And how do you feel right now since I just 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.640 saw you walking on the chunnel. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:07.400 For a while in the heat. 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:08.840 I'm tired, hunted. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.600 And in another room, Lutz Suckstorf was recovering from a 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:13.440 cycling test. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.799 Mentally, it really starts to drain you like it. Really 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.440 it becomes an effort, you know, literally that one foot 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.560 in front of the other. If we had another half 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:24.920 an hour, forty five minutes, my bloody would have started 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:26.520 to saying, no, this is no fun anymore. 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.399 When Janet, Bob and Lutz spoke with Zara, that kept 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.280 the mood light, but their motivations for participating in this research, 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:37.040 and the goals of the research itself are very serious. 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.200 Nearly half a million people die every year as a 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.160 result of extreme heat, according to research compiled by the 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:50.240 reinsurance company Swiss Ree. That's more than the total from hurricanes, earthquakes, 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:54.800 and floods combined, and Zara says the real number is 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:56.040 likely even higher. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:03:00.960 Often we're just maybe tracking the most extreme cases that 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:05.600 are coming through hospitals. But you know, if you're dying 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.360 from a heart problem that was tied to the heat, 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.240 that might not necessarily be recorded as a heat death. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.960 So you know, it is a really big number that 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.320 we don't even have a full grasp on. 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.920 I'm Sarah Holder, and this is the big take from 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.600 Bloomberg News Today. On the show, the researchers on the 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.560 forefront of the latest science on deadly heat, why everyone's 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.560 at more risk than they think, and what actually works 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:42.120 to mitigate those risks. The Heat Lab at the University 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:46.280 of Ottawa, the Human and Environmental Physiology Research Unit, has 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.760 been around since two thousand and Over the last two decades, 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.560 the lab has been at the forefront of studying human's 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.120 ability to live and work in the heat. 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:57.120 A lot of the work that I am doing is 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:00.360 really focused on understanding the impacts of heat exposure on 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.680 the health well being of the general public and markers. 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.480 The man in charge is doctor Glenn Kenny. He's been 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.960 studying the effects of heat on the human body for 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.680 thirty five years and he says, in many ways, this 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:13.960 is an old problem. 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.000 When we think about, for example, workers, and we think 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.360 about the impacts that heat has, this is not new. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.560 This is something we've known for decades. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.400 But as the climate changes, heat is only growing more extreme. 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.360 It was only a couple of years ago, in twenty 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.640 twenty one that the Western Heat Dome, which was this 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.280 really deadly heat wave hit the western part of Canada, 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:41.279 also the western part of the US, but in Western Canada, 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.400 like over six hundred people died. A lot of them 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.760 were elderly, and a lot of them that were people 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.719 living in their home who didn't have air conditioning and 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.520 they're basically cooking in their homes, and people didn't have 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.919 a way to kind of check in on them, and 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.680 unfortunately a lot of them didn't realize they were too 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:03.119 uncomfortably hot until it was too late because of their 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:07.440 impered ability to sense it. Kenny says, to keep people safe, 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:11.280 you need to understand how heat affects different kinds of bodies. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.719 He says that older heat guidelines have typically been based 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.440 on research focused on young, healthy people who've had limited 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.720 heat exposures, think a couple of hours at a time. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.000 That's where his test subjects come in. Kenny and his 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.400 team use specialized equipment to measure how extreme heat can 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:34.520 affect body temperature in simulated real world conditions. 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:39.560 We have an apartment styled chamber where we have a bag, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.080 where we have a kitchen, a washroom, where we can 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.560 bring in the patient and have them live within that 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.000 chamber so that we can understand what happens to them 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.279 and monitor them not only during the daytime, but also 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.680 what is the impact all that heat exposure on sleep. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:59.159 Kenny also has another secret weapon, a one of a 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.800 kind air calorimeter, which is lab uses to measure the 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:06.320 amount of heat released from or absorbed in the body. 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.440 So we did that before and after the three day exposure, 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.359 so we can see if there's a decrease in my 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:17.480 capacity to space, So is that exposure also causing deterioration 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.359 in my ability through will regulate? 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.440 But that's not the only data the lab is collecting. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.160 The team keeps close tabs on participants cognitive and physical performance, 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.160 and records detailed updates on their temperatures. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:37.760 These are actually pretty uncomfortable trials. I mean, the more 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:39.760 I was learning about it and talking with people, I'm like, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.280 I'm not sure I would want to do this. They 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:46.039 do a lot of tracking of your temperature, and we 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.080 may think, oh, you can take their skin temperatures right 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.360 when you go to the hospital or the doctor and 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.120 they check to see if you have a fever. But 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.520 that's really not the best way to get a gauge 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.680 of how hot your insights are. That's called a skin temperature, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.800 but it's better to get a core temperature, and there 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.960 are a couple different ways they can do that, including 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.120 putting something down your esophagus, which is like really intrusive, 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.520 but also the more common is like a rectal pro 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.560 and that was tracking their core temperature that she was 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.200 sort of wearing on a fanny pack. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.000 Armed with the data from these experiments, Kenny's lab has 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.800 been assessing whether the upper limit for a safe indoor 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:29.320 temperature recommended by some Canadian officials twenty six degrees celsius 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.600 or just under seventy nine degrees fahrenheit is actually safe, 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.880 and they've found that for a day, it seems to be. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.520 What they're trying to figure out now is how the 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:43.080 body responds to those temperatures over longer periods of time. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.320 When you are exposed to temperatures above twenty six degrees celsius, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.640 older adults and individuals with chronic diseases are going to 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.760 start seeing increases in their level of physiological strength. But 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.840 I want you to imagine that increase in temperature is 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.240 a strain. Go out and exercise and keep that stress. Now, 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.120 that's a stress, and that stress is essentially maintained over time. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.200 That person is going overheat. If that heat wave stays 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.240 and overheating is consistent, that strain will remain. 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.960 So in a warming world, how can people reduce the 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.680 strains that come with extreme heat? And are all cooling 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:33.840 options created equal? That's after the break. Here in New 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.680 York where I am, when a heat wave hits, the 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:40.640 city opens up public cooling centers. But doctor Glenn Kenny, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:43.360 who runs one of the world's largest heat labs at 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.720 the University of Ottawa, says cooling centers alone don't totally 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.200 protect against the risks of extreme heat. 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:52.880 The problem is, upon re entering to the heat, you 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.240 haven't removed all that heat from the body. Air is 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.000 not a good conductor of heat unlike water, right, so 0:08:58.080 --> 0:08:59.960 one of the things upon reenter the heat, the bible 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.600 actually warmed up very quickly. So the challenge is is 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.760 that that person feels very well, They feel more relaxed, 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.880 they feel cooler. Problem is, within a couple hours their 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.400 body heats up very fast and get as hot as 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.280 their non cool counterpart. So imagine they're gonna they may 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.920 not adjust their behavior because essentially they feel better. So 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:24.800 the problem is is feeling better actually masks the risk 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.160 that they face because their temperatures are equally as. 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.760 High Bloomberg Zara here Ge, says Another researcher, this one 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.040 at the University of Sydney, who did his post doc 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:36.600 at Kenny's lab, looked at the efficacy of fans and 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.959 how they could be used in Bangladeshi garment factories, where 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.120 workers face especially hot and humid conditions. 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:47.040 Every part of the world, heat is a combination of 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:52.000 high temperatures and humidity, So in a place like Bangladesh, 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.360 you can have much higher humidity than you might in 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.720 some other places, and so that's a key thing to understand, 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.480 and the type of solution that you then have to 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.640 keep people cool can be different. So you know, when 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.840 we're looking, for example, at electric fans, like how effective 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.560 are they as compared to air conditioning. Air Conditioning is 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.439 always going to be the best, but not everybody has 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.400 access to that, right, especially across the developing world. So 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.960 a key part of cooling is not just sweating, but 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.880 then that sweat be able to cool or to dry off. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.280 It's that drying piece that is essential. If you're just 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.560 sweating and sweating and sweating, you are going to keep 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:36.280 overheating and so you need it to continually be drying 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:38.640 to be it effective. And so that's one thing where 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.440 a fan in a particularly human environment might be helpful 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.400 because it can help kind of encourage sweating to have 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.079 that maximum potential. 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:52.080 But it's worth noting fans also come with risks. In 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.040 extremely hot and dry climates, fans can actually heat people 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:00.439 up faster, and like cooling centers, Kenny says, us fans 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.679 can give people a false sense of security. They can 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.560 make you feel better while you're using them. So good 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.280 that you may feel well enough to go back out 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:10.000 in the heat. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.160 But what's important here is it doesn't reduce the strain 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.720 on the body. It makes you feel better, that again 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.600 mass the potential dangers that you might experience because you're 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.720 not able to sense the fact that you are probably 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.440 going to be overheated, or you are overheated, you're. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:30.600 Understrainth The United Nations has used Kenny's research to inform 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.520 its worker safety recommendations, and Zara says it's not just 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.760 governments that are taking notice. Companies like smart Cone are too. 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.640 They make devices and wearables to monitor the temperature on 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:43.360 job sites. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:48.040 One of the clients they're currently working with is United 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.559 the airline company, which is told me how they are 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:58.240 testing out smart Cones wearable device which helps monitor heat 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.960 exposure and worker exerts at employees working on the tarmac 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.680 and on the ground at Phoenix Airport. So this is still. 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.960 Early days, egg frying on the tarmac condition right, probably right, 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.719 but real world example of how this is playing out. 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.920 Zara says that when she asks heat researchers about the 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.120 next big questions in their field, their answers usually fall 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:23.240 into two camps. 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:28.600 The first was what are the most practical takeaways we 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.400 can get in the applications of this work to really 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:36.240 help best improve people's safety today. And then it's what's 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.960 going to happen in the future. How do we understand 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.240 how hot is it actually going to get? And then 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:44.960 what does that mean for people's health. Part of the 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:47.920 interesting research that's going on is trying to understand that, 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.320 and it really is a whole bunch of unknowns and 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:55.440 really like we don't know what is the limit. I 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.040 feel like that's a lot of what this work is 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.040 trying to figure out. 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.640 This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.880 The show is hosted by Me, David Gera, Juan ha 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.520 and Seleiah Mosen. The show is made by Aaron Edwards, 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.000 David Fox, Eleanor Harrison Dengate, Patti Hirsch, Rachel Lewis, Krisky, 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:23.400 Naomi un, Julia Press, Tracy Samuelson, Naomi Shaven, Alex Suguiera, 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:28.199 Julia Weaver, Yang Yong, and Taka Yasuzawa. To get more 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.480 from The Big Take and unlimited access to all of 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.640 Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe today at Bloomberg dot com. Slash 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.720 podcast offer. Thanks for listening. We'll be back on Monday.