Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
Speaker 1: welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
Speaker 1: mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I am
Speaker 1: your host, ramses Jah, and I want to send a
Speaker 1: big shout out to my man q Ward, who is
Speaker 1: globe trotting once again. He is somewhere down in Columbia
Speaker 1: doing the Lord's work. I'm not sure if that's literally
Speaker 1: or not, but it sounded good, So shout out to
Speaker 1: q Ward, who will be back with us next week.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, we are going to have a very
Speaker 1: important and I believe timely conversation slash update with a
Speaker 1: good friend of ours and a good friend of the show.
Speaker 1: Today's guest goes by the name of Amy Horowitz. And
Speaker 1: for those that may not remember the many times Amy
Speaker 1: is set with us. He is a fellow journalist, and
Speaker 1: he is a Jewish Man, and in his story he's
Speaker 1: been able to go underground with Hamas and research and
Speaker 1: report on the ongoing conflict in the region and even
Speaker 1: prior to the is Hamas War. He's a globally renowned
Speaker 1: journalist and his videos on YouTube and elsewhere I have
Speaker 1: garnered over half a billion views, and these videos are
Speaker 1: very important.
Speaker 2: And he is a.
Speaker 1: Again, a well renowned conservative I will say that now,
Speaker 1: conservative journalist. And while we don't see eye to eye
Speaker 1: on too much, I do reckon him a brother. And
Speaker 1: I'm honored that you would come back on the show
Speaker 1: and continue to have this conversation with me.
Speaker 2: So welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: It's my pleasure. And that was quite an introduction. Man,
Speaker 3: I should bring you around everywhere I go.
Speaker 1: Well, listen, I appreciate you saying that, and I hope
Speaker 1: that today's conversation won't be too challenging for either of us,
Speaker 1: because I know that I'm not the best person to
Speaker 1: speak about it.
Speaker 3: Oh, challenging is good.
Speaker 1: Challenge is good.
Speaker 3: We want to always challenge our assumptions. We want to
Speaker 3: check ourselves. Man, that's a healthy way of look at
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, then I tell you what we will get
Speaker 1: into the challenging conversation right after our first order of business,
Speaker 1: which of course, as always is Ebony Excellence. And Today's
Speaker 1: Ebny Excellence is sponsored by Major Threads, her Innovative Fashionable
Speaker 1: Sports where checkmajorthreads dot com and Today's Abny Excellence comes
Speaker 1: from the Black Information Network. Several black stars showed up
Speaker 1: at the ninety sixth An Academy Awards Sunday Night, which
Speaker 1: was March tenth, in hopes of taking one of the
Speaker 1: most prestigious honors in entertainment. Late night talk show host
Speaker 1: Jimmy Kimmel hosted the high profile ceremony for the fourth
Speaker 1: time at the Dolby Theater in Los Angeles, with many actors,
Speaker 1: movie makers, and celebrities in attendance. Danielle Brooks, Divine Joy,
Speaker 1: Randolph Sterling, k Brown, Holman Domingo, and Jeffrey Wright were
Speaker 1: nominated for their phenomenal acting roles, with Divine Joy, Randolph Kor,
Speaker 1: Jefferson and Chris Bowers taking home big wins. This year's
Speaker 1: presenters included previous OSCAR winners and prominent actors such as India,
Speaker 1: Dwayne the Rock, Johnson, and Marcia Ali, as well as
Speaker 1: Lupita Neong, Grammy Winder. John Batiste delivered a heartwarming performance
Speaker 1: during the awards ceremony as well.
Speaker 2: And I know this is not really an entertainment show.
Speaker 1: We talk about things that are based in politics, based
Speaker 1: in social justice, but in terms of any excellence, and
Speaker 1: this is really why we incorporated this feature. It's important
Speaker 1: to celebrate creativity, it's important to celebrate ingenuity. It's important
Speaker 1: to celebrate intelligence, particularly when it comes from black people.
Speaker 2: A lot of people, in a lot of.
Speaker 1: People's minds, when they think of black people, they think
Speaker 1: very negative things. And so again we delineate this time
Speaker 1: in the show to celebrate what we've deemed Abny excellence.
Speaker 1: And forgive the fact that this is primarily entertainment based,
Speaker 1: but the Academy awards and the winners certainly do reflect
Speaker 1: prosperous energy and certainly noteworthy accomplishments, and so I want
Speaker 1: to make sure we shout them out now onto business.
Speaker 3: If I may say, you, my friend, are Ebony excellence.
Speaker 1: Hey, I'll take it man, Thank you, brother, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: So what we're going to do is have a conversation
Speaker 1: about again the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine. And
Speaker 1: there has been a lot that has been said by
Speaker 1: everyone pretty much who has an opinion on this, who's
Speaker 1: connected to this, and people who are on the periphial
Speaker 1: as well. And you are one such individual who I
Speaker 1: wouldn't call you on the perifiel at all. You've actually
Speaker 1: been on the ground there, and so for the second
Speaker 1: part of the show, I definitely want to talk to
Speaker 1: you about what it's been like on the ground, But
Speaker 1: for now, I'd like to get your thoughts on a
Speaker 1: couple of things that have transpired since the last time
Speaker 1: we spoke.
Speaker 2: So let's start here.
Speaker 1: Give me some insight into how maybe you're feeling or
Speaker 1: maybe how folks are just in general. And I'm talking
Speaker 1: about people that feel the way that you feel, and
Speaker 1: feel free to define that for our audience. But last
Speaker 1: time we spoke, it was very much you know that
Speaker 1: the Israel has a right to defend itself. They have
Speaker 1: to go after Hamas at all.
Speaker 2: By all means necessary.
Speaker 1: You know, the human shields, you know the major talking
Speaker 1: points that we hear from the pro Israel stance, and
Speaker 1: it's very much the casualties are unfortunate, but that's just
Speaker 1: kind of the cost of doing business. That's that's kind
Speaker 1: of the ugliness of war.
Speaker 2: So be it.
Speaker 1: Onward and upward, and let's keep carpet bombing the Gaza
Speaker 1: strip And so again you start, you tell us that,
Speaker 1: and then I want to get an idea of how
Speaker 1: your thoughts, what your thoughts are with respect to how
Speaker 1: the fact that global support has shifted away from Israel
Speaker 1: more in favor of Palestine. So please tell us sort
Speaker 1: of your feelings and then how that hits you.
Speaker 3: Look, and I wouldn't use the casualness of hey is
Speaker 3: the cost doing business? Whatever? I mean, it's I think
Speaker 3: Israel always feels moral responsibility in terms of how it
Speaker 3: deals with this enemy. I think it always has, you know.
Speaker 3: I remember that there was a quote that you and
Speaker 3: I talked about off the air from Golden Mayer which said,
Speaker 3: I think it's exact, but I might be slightly paraphrasing,
Speaker 3: which said, I will I could forgive the Palestinians for
Speaker 3: killing our children, I will never forgive them for making
Speaker 3: us killers of their children. I think it's a very
Speaker 3: very powerful statement because it does go since to the
Speaker 3: point that I've been trying to make overall, which is
Speaker 3: there is no casualousness or callousness when it comes to
Speaker 3: Israel engaging in war with the other side, no matter
Speaker 3: how obscene or how brutal or barbaric what they did
Speaker 3: to us was. And I think it does in fact
Speaker 3: encapsulate the feeling of Israel that deals with war, which
Speaker 3: is look we know when we get in war, they're
Speaker 3: going to be casualties. They're going to be children who
Speaker 3: are killed. We know that, and it kills us that
Speaker 3: we have to engage in that kind of behavior, and
Speaker 3: I have to do that. But ultimately, the difference comes
Speaker 3: down to something very simple. And look, it's the problem ramseyes,
Speaker 3: is that it's very hard to denude emotion from this argument. Right,
Speaker 3: It's an emotional argument, and sometimes that's difficult to discuss
Speaker 3: because the emotion, I think, actually gets the way of
Speaker 3: the real argument, which is the data, what is actually
Speaker 3: happening on the ground. No, obviously I hold this against
Speaker 3: you used the word carpet bombing, which a lot of
Speaker 3: people have used, and this is part of the problem.
Speaker 3: If this or was carpet bombing Gaza, Gaza wouldn't be there.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be an argument on me. There's an argument
Speaker 1: that Gaza is not there. Effectually, a gaza doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1: There's nowhere for the people to live, there's nowhere for
Speaker 1: the people. The population has been displayed to people are hungry,
Speaker 1: people don't have homes that they can go back to.
Speaker 1: So effectively, effectually, Gaza is has been decimated.
Speaker 3: There is no gaza, so that isn't actually true, and
Speaker 3: that there's there are many many In fact, I think
Speaker 3: the majority of building are still standing. A lot have
Speaker 3: been taken down for sure, but you're not seeing the
Speaker 3: entire gaza strip, right, So.
Speaker 2: The population centers is what I'm referring.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, even in the population centers there are many, many,
Speaker 3: many neighborhoods standing in but yes, most of that displaced.
Speaker 3: What I'm talking about is if it was if Israel
Speaker 3: was in fact carpet bombing, you wouldn't have thirty thousand dead.
Speaker 3: It has three million dead. Israel's the ability to bomb
Speaker 3: every inch of that and kill every single person there.
Speaker 3: So the reason why I don't we're because car bombing
Speaker 3: has a specific military attribution, which is completely random destruction
Speaker 3: of a city or a country. If it was completely random, again,
Speaker 3: it wouldn't be thirty thousand, maybe three hundred thousand and
Speaker 3: three million deads So I don't like the use the
Speaker 3: word that you use the word carpet bombing, but certainly
Speaker 3: it has been bombed, I mean massively. There's no no
Speaker 3: debate about.
Speaker 1: That, Okay, So let's let's keep that in mind. So
Speaker 1: what we have now is now. The thing is one
Speaker 1: of the things I've never been able to fully get
Speaker 1: to the bottom of is the why. Okay, now, the
Speaker 1: why in terms of the Hamas attacks. I've learned since
Speaker 1: then that this has been very much an ongoing war,
Speaker 1: and what I originally thought of was just kind of hatred.
Speaker 2: There is some.
Speaker 1: Mental framework that exists within the the Hamas group which
Speaker 1: is based beyond simply just hatred. There's a degree of retaliation,
Speaker 1: there's a degree of defense, There's all these things that
Speaker 1: they feel is appropriate given what they've been through. Right,
Speaker 1: So when we look at Israel and Israel's response to
Speaker 1: the Hamas attack on October seventh, the why comes into
Speaker 1: question because either they are going to get the Hamas
Speaker 1: terrorists or they are going to do something more significant,
Speaker 1: something greater, right, And what we see as the result
Speaker 1: of them, quote seeking out the Hamas terrorists, well, the
Speaker 1: result of that is something far greater, right, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: significant destruction. Okay, Now, this is something that I have seen.
Speaker 1: I've seen the data on this, and I'm sure you
Speaker 1: have to, and I fear that we are subscribing to
Speaker 1: potentially at some point in this conversation we might find
Speaker 1: ourselves having subscribed to two different sets of data. But
Speaker 1: I want to be very fair when I say that
Speaker 1: the data that I look at, because again I don't
Speaker 1: have an a vested interest in the outcome directly here.
Speaker 1: These are not necessarily speaking my people on either side.
Speaker 1: I reckon both sides, brothers to me, right, So the
Speaker 1: best that I can do is try my best to
Speaker 1: use data that is either not biased or not listed
Speaker 1: as uncredible. Okay, So so that what I'm What I
Speaker 1: mean is I'm looking at data from sources that are
Speaker 1: journalistically credible and do not have a significant bias one
Speaker 1: way or the other. Okay, there are some that are
Speaker 1: left bias, some that are right byas with that in mind,
Speaker 1: where I am is when I see that Israel has
Speaker 1: done so much damage, the why and this might have
Speaker 1: been a conspiracy theory, but increasingly it starts to feel
Speaker 1: like maybe that's true.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So again, you mentioned that carpet bombing would have destroyed
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands or potentially millions of people, right, and
Speaker 1: Israel has the capability of doing that. But if in
Speaker 1: fact Israel does want the land, it certainly looks like
Speaker 1: they're moving the population of the Gaza strip south toward
Speaker 1: the Egyptian border. And because of that, and and and
Speaker 1: because of the fact that they are not I mean,
Speaker 1: they're still on the edge of sort of a crisis,
Speaker 1: a pr crisis, certainly, And that's kind of what the
Speaker 1: question was about. I would imagine that had they bombed
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand or you know, three hundred thousand or
Speaker 1: whatever number it is that's there, then obviously there would
Speaker 1: be a much more significant pushback that would overwhelm Israel's relationships,
Speaker 1: perhaps they're military, et cetera, because there would be a
Speaker 1: much more significant response to this. So in other words,
Speaker 1: keeping those numbers relatively low compared to what they could
Speaker 1: do allows them to get the land. Now, again, I
Speaker 1: can't say that that's the why, but it's starting to
Speaker 1: look that way. So my question now is these and
Speaker 1: if you ask for my sources, I have them right here,
Speaker 1: But for the sake of time, we're going.
Speaker 2: To get through them pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: There was a UN vote in December which highlighted the
Speaker 1: shift away from support of Israel to the support of Palestine.
Speaker 1: One hundred and fifty three countries and the bodies General Assembly,
Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority voted in favor of an immediate ceasefire
Speaker 1: humanitarian ceasefire, and that's an uptick from October. Of course,
Speaker 1: since then, Biden has stated that, you know, Israel is
Speaker 1: starting to lose support in the war due to indiscriminate
Speaker 1: bombing that takes place. According to Time magazine, there's a
Speaker 1: net favorability. The percentage of people viewing Israel positively after
Speaker 1: subtracting the percentage viewing it negatively dropped globally by an
Speaker 1: average of eighteen point five percent. So this shift away
Speaker 1: from let's support Israel more toward let's support Palestine.
Speaker 2: I want to get an idea of how that hits.
Speaker 1: Do we still feel like Israel is doing the right
Speaker 1: thing and everyone around the world is wrong, misinformed, anti Semitic,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the case is. And this is where
Speaker 1: we need some insight from a person who is so
Speaker 1: not only intelligent but involved as you.
Speaker 3: So you drop a lot of stuff there, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that.
Speaker 3: That's a right unpack some of it. So first of all,
Speaker 3: let's let's talk about the motivation. The motivation the land park.
Speaker 3: So it just it isn't true, and we know it
Speaker 3: isn't true because Israel willingly left Israel's zero zero intention
Speaker 3: for the Gaza Strip to be part of Israel. Zero.
Speaker 3: How do I know that Israel left voluntarily? This doesn't
Speaker 3: have to leave the Gaza Strip. It did. They said,
Speaker 3: we're going to give that to you. You can run
Speaker 3: it as you see fit. We're gonna have zero involvement.
Speaker 3: There's not, there was. There's not been a single Israeli
Speaker 3: soldier in Gaza for almost two decades.
Speaker 1: So so if Israel has zero involvement there, then Israel
Speaker 1: does not control their borders. It does not control their ports,
Speaker 1: It does not control the water supply, it does not
Speaker 1: control the electricity, the internet.
Speaker 2: So that's kind of tough.
Speaker 3: That's not true. That doesn't.
Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead, help me out.
Speaker 3: But first of all, Israel does not control their borders.
Speaker 3: It controls a board, it controls the border that it
Speaker 3: bores Israel. Israel has again zero control over his border
Speaker 3: in the south, zero, no involvement, not israe a soldier,
Speaker 3: not a policy of decision, nothing. The southern border has
Speaker 3: no connection Israel whatsoever. It only controls the northern border
Speaker 3: or Israel obviously. So no, that's it's not true that
Speaker 3: Israel controls its borders. Israel does control a lot of
Speaker 3: the infrastructure, some of it, not all of it, some
Speaker 3: of it because that's where the it controls it because
Speaker 3: the electricity comes from Israel. The water some of it
Speaker 3: comes from Israel, so obviously it controls it. Hamas decided
Speaker 3: it wasn't going to build electrical infrastructure for itself because
Speaker 3: that would mean it had to spend money for its
Speaker 3: civilian infrastructure and not its terror arms. So it was
Speaker 3: happy to have Israel provide all of electricity. So thisel
Speaker 3: controls it because they provide it. If if Hamas or
Speaker 3: the or the past that or the Gazans built their
Speaker 3: own power plants, which they could have. By the way,
Speaker 3: they get billions of dollars in funding from abroad, and
Speaker 3: for miserbel it is, we're also funds them. They could
Speaker 3: have spent their money instead of building tunnels, they could
Speaker 3: have built civil infrastructure. It decided not to do that.
Speaker 3: So the reason why controls it is because ISRAELA gives
Speaker 3: it to them. Obviously, you're giving thing to somebody, you
Speaker 3: could take it away, especially if you had went through
Speaker 3: the brutality that it went through October seventh. So yes,
Speaker 3: some of these are technically true, but when you start
Speaker 3: putting context around it, it starts to make a little
Speaker 3: more sense.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so then there's another one here. Now be
Speaker 1: that as it may, as far as I'm very.
Speaker 3: Clear, what I'm sorry, One more thing. The land thing
Speaker 3: is a huge It is a conspiracy theory. Again, there's
Speaker 3: zero Israel has has engaged in war with Gaza many
Speaker 3: many times since they were given autonomy over the Gaza
Speaker 3: Strip many times, and they've never taken one inch of territory.
Speaker 3: There's literally literally no evidence that this is an intention
Speaker 3: of Israel, and it truly is a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 2: So so here, here's where I here's where.
Speaker 1: So this this I was just looking at something last night, right,
Speaker 1: and I don't have it in my notes today because
Speaker 1: again I found that I think it's nine I forget
Speaker 1: the name of the magazine, but it's a Israeli owned magazine.
Speaker 1: It starts with the nine to three digits, but they
Speaker 1: have a left bias. And then the source material that
Speaker 1: the magazine was quoting had warnings that it sometimes uses
Speaker 1: questionable information. So I didn't include it in my notes today.
Speaker 1: But I saw the video, right, and the video purported
Speaker 1: to have a Palestinian man's house being taken over, which
Speaker 1: certainly reflects the reality that a lot of people on
Speaker 1: the Palestinian side of things, certainly in the West Bank,
Speaker 1: suggest is going on. There are people that are just
Speaker 1: taking land, taking houses, withdrawing borders, these things.
Speaker 3: What.
Speaker 2: Okay, so so real quick, I've had people on.
Speaker 3: This who's taking over a house? You're taking like Israelis
Speaker 3: are coming across the border and taking people's homes.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I saw the video for it last night
Speaker 1: now at the time my notes because I didn't.
Speaker 3: But you can't believe that. That's not That's not a thing.
Speaker 3: There's no there's no zero. He's really civilians crossing the
Speaker 3: border to Gossa zero zero z ro ramseys. I can't.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure I said it. Zero. This is all
Speaker 3: this is None of this is happening, none of them,
Speaker 3: I can, by the way, I say that.
Speaker 2: Sorry, it's okay, it's the radio.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I told you of motion. I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know how else to. This is not this
Speaker 3: is not reality. And you're you're you know me, I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not into hyperbole, right.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, So so so here's here's where we have
Speaker 1: to leave this because there's a lot more we need
Speaker 1: to cover. I want to make sure that I state
Speaker 1: two things. One is that there are people who have
Speaker 1: lived experience who have brought it to me. I of
Speaker 1: course don't live there, but they feel just as passionately
Speaker 1: as you do. And they say that it has happened
Speaker 1: to their family members. Their family members no longer lived
Speaker 1: in the houses that are now occupied by Israeli people
Speaker 1: in Gaza or in the West Bank, the West Bank
Speaker 1: specifically as well, and real quick on me, those people
Speaker 1: will be on next week to share their perspective on this.
Speaker 1: So I do want to move on because there's a
Speaker 1: lot that we have to cover here.
Speaker 3: I don't want to Besmortis people. I'm telling you that
Speaker 3: somebody tells you that they have a home the Israeli
Speaker 3: citizens then crossed over to take in Gaza. I hate it.
Speaker 3: They're lying to you. They're lying to you, all right,
Speaker 3: and there will be no there's no evidence for that,
Speaker 3: zero evidence.
Speaker 2: So we're going to move through the rest of this
Speaker 2: a little bit quicker.
Speaker 1: Talk to us a little bit about the many videos
Speaker 1: that are coming out that are showing sort of that
Speaker 1: misconduct of the IDF and the humiliate, the humiliation of
Speaker 1: the dozens. So so, how does that hit you when
Speaker 1: you see those videos? Real quick, give me like thirty seconds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there, of course, when you're in war, forget
Speaker 3: about the general the general amount of death in the war,
Speaker 3: but there's going to be misconduct, an ethical, moral behavior
Speaker 3: by certain soldiers. And there's no doubt to me that
Speaker 3: some of that has occurred.
Speaker 1: Okay, now it hits me very poor, real quick, real quick.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that we're addressing the fact
Speaker 1: that it's quite prevalent. So so so please continue.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure how. I'm not sure how. I
Speaker 3: don't think it's that prevalent. I think that when you
Speaker 3: have this kind of this kind of war, the amount
Speaker 3: of battles going on, if it happens, I don't know,
Speaker 3: with the number ten twenty fifth, I don't know. I
Speaker 3: just make up a number. I don't know. It's not prevalent.
Speaker 3: It happens. They're isolated. And by the way, when videos
Speaker 3: come out of this stuff, they get punished in court martial.
Speaker 3: That shows you how serious Israel takes it. They court
Speaker 3: martial and arrest people who they have proof, are creating,
Speaker 3: are having misconduct, or behaving them morally in times of war.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that.
Speaker 1: I want to move on to what was it like
Speaker 1: watching the video of the US soldier Aaron Bush Now
Speaker 1: when he set himself on fire yelling free Palestine. Did
Speaker 1: that give you pause to suggest that maybe there are
Speaker 1: people who are sincerely hopeful for a free Palestine at
Speaker 1: some point in the future.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there are a lot of people who are
Speaker 3: hopeful and want that and so so.
Speaker 1: To go to that degree, did that? How was that
Speaker 1: discussed in circles that you're familiar with.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's it was. It was horrific
Speaker 3: to watch and but and again I don't want to
Speaker 3: be callous about it, but I mean, he's just it
Speaker 3: was it was for him to die for this was
Speaker 3: a terrible thing. I mean, I don't know how, I
Speaker 3: don't know how I do say it. It wasn't nobody's
Speaker 3: laughing about it. Nobody found it funny. Everybody found it terrible.
Speaker 3: But he'd unfortunately he died for a cause, a misplaced cause.
Speaker 2: Okay, and by missing okay, let me.
Speaker 3: Take that back. Not the thing he believes that having
Speaker 3: a free Palestine is a misplaced cause. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he believes that he wants that, and I
Speaker 3: understand that. But again, I want to point out that
Speaker 3: Gaza has been free for almost twenty years.
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's what I'm gonna do. We're gonna have
Speaker 1: to come back to this. But there's been a lot
Speaker 1: of things that have been stated, and I personally have
Speaker 1: researched them. Maybe you've reached searched different sources, but I
Speaker 1: want to share them before we move on, and then
Speaker 1: we'll have to come back to it. So just let
Speaker 1: me get these off and then we'll come back. So
Speaker 1: some of the things that have been determined to be lies.
Speaker 1: One that there was already a ceasefire in place on
Speaker 1: October sixth, and as it turns out, there's examples of
Speaker 1: Israel Israeli soldiers violating that ceasefire prior to October sixth.
Speaker 1: Another one is that the priority of freeing the hostages.
Speaker 1: I'm not even gonna get through all these, but we
Speaker 1: need to talk about how the IDF has accidentally killed hostages,
Speaker 1: the beheading of babies, et cetera. We'll come back to it,
Speaker 1: but I'd love to get your thoughts,