Speaker 1: Hi, how are you.
Speaker 2: I'm good. How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry if I just went in the ocean because
Speaker 3: I was here for like Miami Swing Week and it
Speaker 3: was on.
Speaker 2: Dude, you looked fucking amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate hav Well. Look, I'm above forty. I know
Speaker 2: what it takes to keep your body snatched past that age.
Speaker 2: So you literally gave the young chicks a run for
Speaker 2: their money. And that's always fun, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure you've done that as well.
Speaker 2: I don't care anymore, so I don't even try.
Speaker 1: I've never cared. I don't.
Speaker 3: I never cared. I don't like I was talking about
Speaker 3: it today. I did a post about like everyone's like,
Speaker 3: what do you do and what do you do? I don't.
Speaker 1: I walk.
Speaker 3: That's all I do is walk. I don't do weights.
Speaker 3: I don't go to the gym. I think people do
Speaker 3: too much and they like beat themselves up and it's
Speaker 3: like fear based. And I just feel like I look
Speaker 3: natural because I add natural. I just have always just
Speaker 3: wanted to walk and have a good relationship with food
Speaker 3: and exercise. And I think women are struggling and like
Speaker 3: beating the shit out of themselves trying to get to somewhere.
Speaker 3: And I think every want to say is this show
Speaker 3: did show me women really appreciating their own bodies like
Speaker 3: they were very It was a lot of empowerment.
Speaker 1: They really did love their bodies.
Speaker 2: See I binge on the weekends and I kill myself
Speaker 2: in the gym, but I love it. But that's because
Speaker 2: I'm an addictive personality. So I had to find something
Speaker 2: healthy to do. And the healthy thing for me to
Speaker 2: do is to work out, and I really enjoy Like Saturdays,
Speaker 2: I'll eat like two pizzas and like six cinnamon rolls
Speaker 2: until I feel like it was Thanksgiving Day. I'm like
Speaker 2: puking in my mind. I've got yeah. But then the
Speaker 2: next day I'm eating cottage cheese and two good yogurts
Speaker 2: and like you know, chicken breast and some asparagus because
Speaker 2: I yeah, I feel like you have to live. And
Speaker 2: because of what I used to do, I know, ever
Speaker 2: got to enjoy food. And I'm Italian, so I want food.
Speaker 2: So now I give that one day where I whatever
Speaker 2: I want until I can't.
Speaker 3: But that brings up a good point because that's your
Speaker 3: version of self regulation.
Speaker 1: That's your version of your relationship with food.
Speaker 3: If if you feel healthy about it, if it makes
Speaker 3: you feel good and you're not triggered by it or
Speaker 3: concerned by that's your version. For me, I organize. My
Speaker 3: addiction is organizing things. Everything has to be in order.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, it's a response or it's as
Speaker 3: a result of my childhood, but like mine.
Speaker 1: Is things in order.
Speaker 3: But it was a lot of messages this weekend about
Speaker 3: all of this and women and the struggle and thirty
Speaker 3: year olds saying a lot of this, which is weird,
Speaker 3: Like a lot of thirty year olds saying you make
Speaker 3: me feel like I'm not I haven't peaked yet, and
Speaker 3: like I could have my era at any age. Like
Speaker 3: the woman who works for me is thirty one, and
Speaker 3: she's like, I don't feel great about myself. I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm not at my best now after my baby,
Speaker 3: but like now you make me fe like I have
Speaker 3: so much time, you know, to figure it all out.
Speaker 3: And then women my age are saying, thank you for
Speaker 3: not making everybody think that we're just like old and
Speaker 3: washed up.
Speaker 1: Like so it hit two things at this end.
Speaker 3: It hit the women that are your age saying wow,
Speaker 3: like look at like It just gave a perspective to age,
Speaker 3: which I think was unexpected by even me, by Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 3: I think it just like has become this thing that
Speaker 3: means so much more than what it actually was.
Speaker 2: See you're like the uh, I guess the TikTok version
Speaker 2: of Dame Helen Mirren who peaked later on in life,
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, who's this hot bitch? Look at her?
Speaker 2: And I mean, she's started peaking hard and she's still peaking.
Speaker 2: She's in that mob show. She looks great. That's funny,
Speaker 2: That's right. Would not that be good?
Speaker 1: Would you?
Speaker 3: That's a good trajectory. Yeah, so maybe, but nothing's nothing
Speaker 3: of that was intentional. I'd just like to find the
Speaker 3: meaning and things, and so it cannot be just like
Speaker 3: walking down a runway. As you know better than anyone.
Speaker 3: And I asked, I wanted you.
Speaker 1: I've never met you. I know who you are.
Speaker 3: Remember you were on the show with it was it
Speaker 3: Greg Braid which Brady and you.
Speaker 1: Were married, and that's what I remember.
Speaker 3: You want to show you on Top Model and I'm
Speaker 3: so sorry, no, but that was that was a big
Speaker 3: media moment and I remember you from that and I've
Speaker 3: always remembered you as like a fun sort of wild model,
Speaker 3: and then I was just scrolling and I saw you
Speaker 3: talking about selling Avon And it was right after having
Speaker 3: Susan powder On here telling me that she was an
Speaker 3: uber driver in Vegas and delivered food to Louis c
Speaker 3: K's house, and like there was like this moment about
Speaker 3: like people who everybody saw a certain way in society
Speaker 3: and media and fame, and it just like was weird
Speaker 3: that I saw you right after that, and it was
Speaker 3: just like, I don't know. I just was like I
Speaker 3: want to talk to her about what this journey has
Speaker 3: been and like what that was about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. So my season of Top Model, I
Speaker 2: was the only winner that won no money, zero dollars, Like.
Speaker 1: What does that mean?
Speaker 2: That means there was no money in my win I got,
Speaker 2: I got a title. Well, they lied to our season
Speaker 2: and then they voiceovered what Tyra was saying. They told
Speaker 2: us we were going to be a Revlon cover girl,
Speaker 2: and Revlon told me afterwards we had no intention of
Speaker 2: doing that. And then when it aired on TV, you
Speaker 2: can ask any girl from my season, They're like they
Speaker 2: changed everything Tyra said to us. She was telling us
Speaker 2: we were going to be this huge Revlon like superstar,
Speaker 2: because I don't think any of us would have fought
Speaker 2: as hard as we did for what the prize really was,
Speaker 2: which is the title. So I always joke because people
Speaker 2: are like, you still call yourself America's next Top Model,
Speaker 2: and Mike, it's the only fucking thing I won. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna put it on my tombstone bed.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Well wow, that's crazy because some of the girls. Was
Speaker 3: Kenley Collins on that or was she only a design show?
Speaker 3: There were some girls who come through my messages a
Speaker 3: lot because people from Project Runway and people with a
Speaker 3: model they get mixed in together with me. But like
Speaker 3: they reached out to me because of the Reality Reckoning
Speaker 3: and they're all like telling me all these crazy stories
Speaker 3: and like this is another one. You must have definitely
Speaker 3: seen the Reality Reckoning stuff and been like jumping up
Speaker 3: and down on your couch like, oh my god, like yes, right.
Speaker 2: You know what's really funny is everyone wanted me to
Speaker 2: dog pile on Tyra Banks when twenty twenty was happening
Speaker 2: and everyone was getting pissed, and I was like, no,
Speaker 2: because if anyone has a right to be mad at her.
Speaker 2: It's me and I'm over it. I don't give a
Speaker 2: shit anymore. What she taught me was the truth of entertainment.
Speaker 2: It's cutthroat. You can't trust everybody, and everyone is lying
Speaker 2: to you. So she actually gave me a great lesson
Speaker 2: and the show was just a avenue for her to
Speaker 2: propel herself into something else after she aged out of modeling.
Speaker 2: I see that now, and if I can let it go,
Speaker 2: everyone else can. It was funny because everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 2: she did this, she did that. But then I would
Speaker 2: look at the people who watched the show and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but you watched it, you made it popular. It's your
Speaker 2: fault too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could say that about the house So the
Speaker 3: thing I have to say about that is the game
Speaker 3: moves fast when you're the talent in that situation, and
Speaker 3: it's really the production company.
Speaker 1: Totally, and she's part of it.
Speaker 3: But like as a housewife, like we're moving drama, we're
Speaker 3: not thinking, you know, when when someone's calling, When Teresa's calling,
Speaker 3: Danielle saw a prostitution horror on national television.
Speaker 1: She's not thinking about the.
Speaker 3: Fact that Andy Cohen's gonna unwatch what Happens Live have
Speaker 3: that song like that sound like prostitution makes make rap
Speaker 3: songs out of it, and that it's gonna be at
Speaker 3: the Bravocon They're gonna have like a reenactment of Prostitution War.
Speaker 1: There's a person that, no matter what.
Speaker 3: She's done in her life, has two daughters that will
Speaker 3: see her as the prostitution War. That's like the production
Speaker 3: I think more not that Tyre wasn't part of it.
Speaker 1: It was her show, but I'm.
Speaker 3: Not even doing I don't know Tyra Banks, And all
Speaker 3: I'm saying is just interesting. The machine, it's a toxic
Speaker 3: machine where the ratings are by any means necessary ratings, right,
Speaker 3: any it does not matter what it takes to get there.
Speaker 1: And you're right about the entertainment industry.
Speaker 3: And now it's probably scario because you know, people don't
Speaker 3: watch as much because they're watching another phone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: What do you think of all that I said? I
Speaker 1: may'd be wrong.
Speaker 3: I want to hear because I didn't watch the show
Speaker 3: that much. The audience takes the drug and they're addicted.
Speaker 3: You know, you know John Ham and very famous people
Speaker 3: go on watch rapids live and last at these housewives
Speaker 3: shows that I was part of, that like do ruin
Speaker 3: some people's lives. Not everybody's, but there are a lot
Speaker 3: of casualties from these shows.
Speaker 1: And you're you know, yes, I agree.
Speaker 2: I went into post production on a show with Antonio
Speaker 2: Sopato Junior called Maya, Antonio and VH one because I
Speaker 2: wanted to learn the ends and outs and I wanted
Speaker 2: to be able to do post production work. And I did,
Speaker 2: and I helped vilify I wanted the contestants. Sure, she
Speaker 2: was kind of a villain, but I might have tweaked
Speaker 2: it a little bit to make her look worse. And
Speaker 2: I'll never forget it was the premiere party or the
Speaker 2: rap party. She came up to me and she was
Speaker 2: upset and she's like, you understand more than anyone what
Speaker 2: they can do to you. And I felt like the
Speaker 2: most rotten, soulless human being on earth. And I tapped
Speaker 2: out of post production. I never did it again because
Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, man, I just jumped right into the machine.
Speaker 2: And I was so eager to please the executive producers
Speaker 2: and stuff like, look, I'm a hard worker. I'm more
Speaker 2: than just talent. I can actually work on a show
Speaker 2: I have nothing to do with and be bad ass
Speaker 2: that I was helping. You know, Frank can bite conversations
Speaker 2: to make them worse than what they were, and I
Speaker 2: was the asshole.
Speaker 3: Here's the problem. You put me on the Sports Illustrated show.
Speaker 3: You give me direction, you tell me you have fun.
Speaker 3: You go out there, you be yourself. I went out there.
Speaker 3: I danced like I was in my own bathroom. I
Speaker 3: understood the assignment. And even in lorel when I wear
Speaker 3: giraffes shoes and I walked down like a giraffe like
Speaker 3: they said, you do what you want to do.
Speaker 1: I said, Okay.
Speaker 3: My point is I show up on time and I
Speaker 3: always land it whatever it is, or I don't go.
Speaker 3: So you go on reality television. I'm on the housewise,
Speaker 3: I'm there to make shit happen. Other people are supposed
Speaker 3: to be there for the same reason. If you're Tinsley Mortimer,
Speaker 3: a very lovely, sweet girl, you get caught in the
Speaker 3: crossfire of what we're doing in the goal of this show.
Speaker 3: Get the fuck out of the way. You shouldn't be here.
Speaker 3: Then we're you know, we're here to kill people. So
Speaker 3: that's the problem. That was what the nature of the
Speaker 3: Beast was. The Beast was create a show, make ratings,
Speaker 3: make drama.
Speaker 1: That's what Hedi did, That's what Spencer did, That's what
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: So it's really the responsibility is the teacher has to
Speaker 3: have some control over the classroom totally.
Speaker 2: And that's why when people are like, well, aren't you
Speaker 2: mad at Tyra, I'm like, no, Tyra was a snake
Speaker 2: and a pit of vipers that learned how to survive exactly,
Speaker 2: So why would I be mad at her? For literally
Speaker 2: her entire life since she was like fourteen, she was
Speaker 2: in modeling, which is the viper pit of all viper pits.
Speaker 2: She is a product of her entire life, and I'm
Speaker 2: like whatever, Like she's just trying to breathe and live,
Speaker 2: so period.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you and also, you know, business is hard
Speaker 3: and being an entertainment person, being a talent and being
Speaker 3: a business person, being a creative and a business person
Speaker 3: is not easy. I mean, if you listen to Susan
Speaker 3: Powder talk about the fact that she sold it was
Speaker 3: three hundred million dollars and she's an uber driver because
Speaker 3: you're listening to people around you, it's the game is fast,
Speaker 3: so it's like we're doing this, we're doing that.
Speaker 1: That sounds good.
Speaker 3: You don't know where to go, and the person who
Speaker 3: says that saying that they're going to take care of
Speaker 3: you and handle it. You just want someone to handle it,
Speaker 3: so you sign up with someone and then they you know,
Speaker 3: it's what happens to the boy band.
Speaker 1: So you never made any money? Like did you ever
Speaker 1: make any money? Like what happened? And what do you
Speaker 1: do for a living?
Speaker 2: I mean I made enough money to pay Los Angeles bills,
Speaker 2: Like I was living in a shitty one bedroom apartment
Speaker 2: in Hancock Part that was twenty three one hundred dollars
Speaker 2: a month and it was like a closet, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. So I made enough to survive. But
Speaker 2: I've never been like rich, and I'm cool with that,
Speaker 2: Like I'm totally fine. So when I was thirty two
Speaker 2: years old, I was tired of being touted as a
Speaker 2: sex symbol. And I met my now husband, who's a
Speaker 2: good old Kentucky boy gentleman, and I'm like, I want
Speaker 2: to have a normal life with a guy that doesn't
Speaker 2: treat me as a trophy, who like values me and
Speaker 2: not covets me, but uh protects me and doesn't want
Speaker 2: me to be seeking the validation of men and like
Speaker 2: sexy inser posts and stuff. I was just tired of
Speaker 2: that for me.
Speaker 1: So, so you're soul crushing, you're warning yeah?
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: Yeah. When I was young, and I remember my management,
Speaker 2: everybody was like, why are you acting like you're seventy
Speaker 2: years old? You have a solid ten more years to earn,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, but I'd feel like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be losing my soul. So I said no to a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of stuff. And I actually lost my apartment
Speaker 2: at thirty two years old, and my husband had me
Speaker 2: move in with them because like, I hit rock bottom
Speaker 2: because I was saying no to crap I didn't want
Speaker 2: to do because I just didn't want to feel exploited anymore.
Speaker 3: I get it, I yeah, but when you jump, you fly.
Speaker 3: When you decide who you are and what you don't
Speaker 3: want to do, that was me leaving housewise, my whole
Speaker 3: life changed after I thought I was like sort of
Speaker 3: semi retiring and only gonna do this podcast at my
Speaker 3: philanthropy and the things that caught me appearances.
Speaker 1: That come out of living in truth and walking out.
Speaker 3: I ended up creating this career, which is awesome, crazy,
Speaker 3: but I wasn't even I didn't even try, and now
Speaker 3: I am leaning into it, but it's because of the
Speaker 3: truth of it. If I was like trying to be
Speaker 3: the last one on the House Lives noticed to take
Speaker 3: the big check, I was getting a lot of money.
Speaker 3: I would have been my soul would have been crushed.
Speaker 3: And while HSN is great, I didn't like doing it.
Speaker 3: I've never, once I've been somewhat successful, done anything that
Speaker 3: I don't feel good about doing. I don't like if
Speaker 3: I only do I feel I don't do it no
Speaker 3: matter what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and basically I've been offered like reality TV show
Speaker 2: jobs at sure there's a paycheck, and yeah, I could
Speaker 2: really use that money, but at what costs? So I
Speaker 2: just said no. And then like a few years later,
Speaker 2: I was like, what am I going to do with myself?
Speaker 2: I thought I was going to be a personal trainer,
Speaker 2: But what I found after certifying is just a bunch
Speaker 2: of dudes that wanted to train with me, which I
Speaker 2: didn't find appropriate, Like me and my husband, like, that's
Speaker 2: that's asking for trouble. I wouldn't feel good if a
Speaker 2: bunch of checks just wanted to train with my husband
Speaker 2: and jail so I was like, this can't be for me.
Speaker 2: So one day I had a myomectomy. I had a
Speaker 2: benign tumor on mac. I had that, yeah, so they
Speaker 2: had to take it out. And while I was high
Speaker 2: on percoset, I watched Edward Scissorhands and I saw peg
Speaker 2: the Avon Lady, and high as a kite, I guess
Speaker 2: I was like, Avon's still around, and I signed up
Speaker 2: to sell it. I didn't remember, and the kitch showed
Speaker 2: up at my house and I was like, well, I
Speaker 2: have nothing else to do. And I thought I was
Speaker 2: going to make fun of it and like do reviews
Speaker 2: about how much it sucks ass, and then I ended
Speaker 2: up just loving it and I started selling it. So
Speaker 2: it's funny. People are like, what do you want to do,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I just want to be the best
Speaker 2: save On Lady on Earth. That's what I'm going to do.
Speaker 2: And people laugh and I'm like, laugh it up, bitch,
Speaker 2: like I'm having a good time.
Speaker 1: Avon's great. I saw their recent line.
Speaker 3: They sent me their recent line of all like the
Speaker 3: vitamin C and like the packaging is amazing.
Speaker 1: This stuff is good.
Speaker 3: But I would imagine you could make I think you're
Speaker 3: laughing because you were actually making decent money, like good
Speaker 3: money selling it.
Speaker 2: I was, I was until a few years ago when
Speaker 2: the economy just tanked into the ground. Like it's been
Speaker 2: a struggle. I'm trying to rebuild my little Avon empire.
Speaker 2: I'm not the top of Avon lady anymore. I'm getting
Speaker 2: my ass handed to me, and I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2: But wait, but did Avon reach out to you after
Speaker 2: your article. I'd imagine they wouldn't. Well, no, I mean
Speaker 2: we know each other like they know me. I know them.
Speaker 2: I'm in an independent rep basically, so I'm like, I
Speaker 2: don't speak for them. Thank God for them, the poor fuckers,
Speaker 2: like if I was their mouthpiece. But yeah, I just
Speaker 2: I just want to sell Avan dude, and live in
Speaker 2: the mountains and tell everyone in Hollywood to go fuck themselves,
Speaker 2: not you. That's how I feel.
Speaker 1: No wonder you said yes it did.
Speaker 2: Podcast.
Speaker 1: I think I s have a podcast. It's what I
Speaker 1: think you are very do.
Speaker 3: I like the way you speak, your very articulate, and
Speaker 3: like your foughts that you're super polarizing an edgy but
Speaker 3: like make perfect sense.
Speaker 1: I think you should have like a really I think
Speaker 1: you should have like an reverend podcast.
Speaker 2: We'll see. I guess what. I like to call it
Speaker 2: decompressing from narcissistic traits, because my therapist said I wasn't
Speaker 2: a narcissist to go in there to be like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, I don't want to be a narcissist. She's like, well,
Speaker 2: then you're not, because no narcissist gives a shit about
Speaker 2: being a narcissist. But I feel like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't I'm not chasing the dragon anymore of like relevancy, No.
Speaker 3: I got it. I mean as a self expression, I
Speaker 3: don't do. I'm in a bathing suit, wet from the ocean.
Speaker 3: I just sat there for you. Oh, Like I'm excited
Speaker 3: to talk to her. When I talk about nothing, it
Speaker 3: does way better than when I talk to like a
Speaker 3: big time celebrity. Like the people just want to hear
Speaker 3: people express themselves, and you seem very honest.
Speaker 2: So I feel like, well, I kind of like this,
Speaker 2: meaning like you don't have like a whole bunch of
Speaker 2: fucking like stage and bullshit. Like that's so much better
Speaker 2: I think, and life like you could do that.
Speaker 3: I think that's what I'm saying you don't have feel
Speaker 3: like it doesn't have to be anything.
Speaker 1: You should do it yourself.
Speaker 2: And why do I feel like no one would give
Speaker 2: a fuck?
Speaker 1: Though you never know.
Speaker 3: If twenty people listen and give a fuck, maybe after
Speaker 3: this they'll give a fuck. But we'll find out. You
Speaker 3: ask my team what the people in the comments said.
Speaker 3: Guys in the comments, do you like this? And do
Speaker 3: you give a fuck? Okay, so what do you think
Speaker 3: about modeling now? Like? What is modeling? So you go
Speaker 3: out like, so I didn't understand. I thought, let's use
Speaker 3: sports ollsced as an example. Let's talk about Victoria's Secret,
Speaker 3: and let's talk about you know what modeling is now?
Speaker 3: So now you have Kendall Jenner, Gigi Hadid and people
Speaker 3: who and and Lisa Brenna's daughters, and there's a lot
Speaker 3: of it's got it's got nepo baby to it, which
Speaker 3: I call my daughter the nepo baby because you've got
Speaker 3: Lisa Brenna's daughters. And I don't believe that without that
Speaker 3: sort of platform, or Gigi and Bella and the mom's platform,
Speaker 3: I believe it has to contribute. And maybe it doesn't,
Speaker 3: but it has to. And so I'm growing up in
Speaker 3: Beverly Hills. And then also like presumably in different areas
Speaker 3: of modeling and brands hiring models, they're hiring Instagram models
Speaker 3: or social media models because they have a following.
Speaker 1: So there's like there's so many.
Speaker 3: Different roads in now and then now there's more inclusivity,
Speaker 3: and so at Sports Illustrated this weekend, I was asking
Speaker 3: the different women like I didn't understand the process. So,
Speaker 3: like I said to this girl at this club, I said, so, like,
Speaker 3: and how long have you been doing this? And she's like,
Speaker 3: I auditioned for five years and I finally got it.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, You're like, are you a model?
Speaker 1: Like model to begin with?
Speaker 3: She's like, no, I'm a fitness My mom is Denise Austin,
Speaker 3: and I'm a I teach videos and I do like
Speaker 3: fitness and diet like eating coach.
Speaker 1: I go oh, And I was like, oh.
Speaker 3: So you're like quote unquote a regular person that auditioned.
Speaker 3: And then there was another woman I think it's Tonday
Speaker 3: and she's a peloton and stru so I didn't understand
Speaker 3: like the way and another woman said at forty years old,
Speaker 3: she got it. So that's like a very unique way
Speaker 3: that these women are saying like I'm a model, So
Speaker 3: like I always say I'm a super model, I think
Speaker 3: I actually am now because if the girl who's the
Speaker 3: fitness person and whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm a model too.
Speaker 2: Now you know it's depending on the household names. So
Speaker 2: I guess you could coin yourself that. Janie Dickinson just
Speaker 2: told everyone choose the world's first supermodel, and now that's
Speaker 2: how everyone knows there. So just own it, say it
Speaker 2: and make it so right.
Speaker 3: But I mean it's because when I was growing up,
Speaker 3: like you had to be. Kate Moss was disruptive because
Speaker 3: she was five seven, Like that was disruptive. Like that
Speaker 3: was like you had to be. There was a wool,
Speaker 3: you had to be over five to nine.
Speaker 2: None of this would have happened in my day. I'll
Speaker 2: tell you. I've sat in Wilhelmina Models during the open
Speaker 2: calls waiting for my you know, sheet of where I
Speaker 2: was going to do go season the day, and I
Speaker 2: would hear the agents talking about girls. If you came
Speaker 2: in there and notice filler in your face or plastic surgery, goodbye.
Speaker 2: They wanted to wow natural only. So I would say
Speaker 2: ninety percent of the people modeling today, when you have
Speaker 2: to remember Christy Turlington, Naomi Campbell, Nikki Taylor, Cindy Crawford Day. Yeah,
Speaker 2: these weren't faces that were touched by science. This was
Speaker 2: natural and like Christy Turlington, Stephanie Seymour, they had little
Speaker 2: quirks that worked from like a little wonk to the eye,
Speaker 2: but in the cutest way.
Speaker 1: Well Inton had his face between her tea.
Speaker 2: Yes, So it was like elitists like they wanted natural
Speaker 2: goddesses that looked like an alien, beam them down and
Speaker 2: they would take no less.
Speaker 3: So if you get that, But the reason I get
Speaker 3: that is because Lebron has a god given talent. Yes
Speaker 3: he's worked on it, but he has a god given talent.
Speaker 3: So what I guess, what I'm saying is if I'm
Speaker 3: little girl you know who is, think she's overweight or
Speaker 3: not like traditionally thin or short or broken out or
Speaker 3: has a birthmark in her face, says I want to
Speaker 3: be a model?
Speaker 1: What is she saying she wants to be? What is
Speaker 1: a model?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Because I don't even necessarily have a problem with the
Speaker 3: fact that they were all aliens that were stunning, because
Speaker 3: that Lebron's an alien too, and there's nothing wrong with that, like,
Speaker 3: it's just what it is. A jockey. You're born shorter.
Speaker 3: You cannot be a six foot jockey in the in
Speaker 3: the in the Kentucky Derby.
Speaker 2: So I'm still yeah, Well, it's like if if in
Speaker 2: the industry becomes something anyone can do, then as you're saying,
Speaker 2: what is it anymore, like if anyone could be an
Speaker 2: NFL player, if anyone could be in the NBA, Like
Speaker 2: if I can maybe hit one basket out of a
Speaker 2: whole game because God blessed me with that one basket
Speaker 2: and then I sucked the rest of the time. Like
Speaker 2: I don't know anymore.
Speaker 3: Pat, do you tell your daughter, yes you can be
Speaker 3: a model, because what is she think she wants to be?
Speaker 2: What is famous? Just famous? I think relevant? Chasing the
Speaker 2: dragon of that fifteen minutes of glory, I think. But
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, you know.
Speaker 3: But but as Sports Illustrated Swims model, I can tell
Speaker 3: you now what that is and what that is now
Speaker 3: because I was there and I was shocked and you
Speaker 3: would be shocked by it.
Speaker 2: I was back.
Speaker 1: So this is my experience. I come in. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know there's a magazine that every year.
Speaker 3: I think it was in February would have all these
Speaker 3: gorgeous women, and I remember Kathy Island was also disruptive
Speaker 3: because she was super like forty like and they were
Speaker 3: pushing the envelope with different types like then I guess
Speaker 3: later I think it was Kate Upton and she was
Speaker 3: more curvy, and I was like, wait, wow, that wasn't
Speaker 3: what we grew up with, the model and so they
Speaker 3: started pushing the envelope. But then years later you'd see
Speaker 3: like other people and I never understood, like what I
Speaker 3: just wasn't.
Speaker 1: It just wasn't. I wasn't the audience for I don't
Speaker 1: understand it.
Speaker 3: So now I'm there and I'm backstage, and I think,
Speaker 3: like everyone's what I used to think was a model,
Speaker 3: Like there's a swimsuit model.
Speaker 1: So I think everybody's gonna.
Speaker 3: Be five nine, five ten and blonde and sin and
Speaker 3: look like everybody's gonna look the same. So I'm like,
Speaker 3: we oh, we're your sport, you're a peloton.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 3: So I'm like everyone there was so into themselves in
Speaker 3: the best possible way.
Speaker 1: Like like it was contagious. It was like it was
Speaker 1: the embodiment.
Speaker 3: Of like I love my body, I love my ass,
Speaker 3: I love my curves, I love my lines, I love
Speaker 3: my my cell like and it was like they picked women,
Speaker 3: but who could rock something? Like? Who could rock something
Speaker 3: despite not being traditionally tall, short, sin, whatever.
Speaker 2: You're s I think it works for lingerie and bikinis,
Speaker 2: but I'll tell you, as someone who used to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: like someone shorter could model like a beautiful evening gown,
Speaker 2: it's harder to model things as not a five to
Speaker 2: eleven person because all of a sudden, the instead of
Speaker 2: the dress wearing the model and the dress being on display,
Speaker 2: it becomes about the model and not the dress. Now
Speaker 2: with bikinis you want to and lingerie you want to
Speaker 2: show it on bodies to you know, show women you're
Speaker 2: going to look good. But I'll tell you that I
Speaker 2: don't think certain clothes look good on someone who's five
Speaker 2: foot five walking down a runway because I stop looking
Speaker 2: at the clothes and I start looking at the girl.
Speaker 1: That brings it back.
Speaker 3: So being a model originally was the people that were
Speaker 3: chosen to highlight the clothes because of the sizes, like
Speaker 3: the samples.
Speaker 1: So right, okay, so make sense.
Speaker 3: And these women are showcasing all of this swimen different
Speaker 3: body tapt. I loved it, and I think they did
Speaker 3: an amazing job of bringing us to twenty twenty five
Speaker 3: without it being performative and girl Boss and BS where
Speaker 3: those people go backstage, were like there to help you succeed.
Speaker 3: The girls wanted me to win and do better than them,
Speaker 3: Like I never saw anything like it. It's the opposite
Speaker 3: of what you experienced. Like there are these girls like, no,
Speaker 3: you're not going to tip your hat at the end.
Speaker 3: You know why you're getting that fucking money shot. Your
Speaker 3: body is tea. You stopped there, that's your money, Like,
Speaker 3: that's what the girls who are there.
Speaker 2: I'm jealous. You guys actually looked like you had fun.
Speaker 2: We were modeling for me was not fun and you
Speaker 2: didn't get to walk down the runway having a good time.
Speaker 2: You were expected to do a certain thing. Oh and
Speaker 2: it was competitive. This was like the opposite. This was
Speaker 2: shocking more than the show itself.
Speaker 3: That was what I thought was a beautiful thing for
Speaker 3: my daughter who's fifteen now, and her body came in
Speaker 3: and she's not used to this spine and she's got
Speaker 3: a woman's spot.
Speaker 1: Like for women that like that to be like.
Speaker 3: No, you own that body, that you were given like
Speaker 3: I just you like they I'm fifty four, they were.
Speaker 3: Most of the girls were in her twenties, so it
Speaker 3: was like it was very It's great that I'm talking
Speaker 3: to you right now after this experience. It's like poetic
Speaker 3: because it was the opposite of what you experienced. To
Speaker 3: be honest, would that be more opposite of what you
Speaker 3: experienced on America's next topic.
Speaker 2: I think it's awesome. And I've always been of the
Speaker 2: belief that when it comes to lingerie and bikinis that
Speaker 2: you should show a piloth of different body shapes and
Speaker 2: how these garments are gonna make them look. You know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, make true too.
Speaker 2: That makes sense because these two garments are all about
Speaker 2: the body and accentuating it. So when you would put
Speaker 2: rail thin chicks in it, like I've I've always had boobs,
Speaker 2: except for now because I had an X plant. Let's
Speaker 2: not get into that. I lost a lot of my
Speaker 2: natural breast, But prior to that one, it's my real
Speaker 2: sea cup boobies. I always had boobs. So i'd see
Speaker 2: models in with no chest, I'm like, oh, I'll buy that,
Speaker 2: and I'd get it, and then I'd look obscene because
Speaker 2: it was like all cleavage everywhere, and I was like,
Speaker 2: that's not how she looked. Damn it.
Speaker 3: Well let's talk about that going into swimsuit season, which
Speaker 3: is such an insecure time for people walking into a dressroom.
Speaker 1: I want to say this.
Speaker 3: I am the person I have never put a song
Speaker 3: on in my entire life, and I wear mostly one
Speaker 3: pieces now.
Speaker 1: Because I just do.
Speaker 3: I because I feel in my mind a construct like
Speaker 3: I'm looking like that desperate older woman trying to cling
Speaker 3: on and wear a bikini.
Speaker 1: My best friend's like, I don't know why with your
Speaker 1: body you're not wearing bikinis. I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just like the elegance of it and the saying
Speaker 3: I know my age and I know.
Speaker 1: Where I am, et cetera.
Speaker 3: So let's park that because I do like like that,
Speaker 3: and that is part of who I am where I
Speaker 3: would never put on a thong. That's how I feel, right,
Speaker 3: I agree with you. So I have a certain construct
Speaker 3: about who should wear what, including myself. After this show,
Speaker 3: I swoart to that there was a bathing sit they
Speaker 3: gave us that was a thong one piece. I was
Speaker 3: gonna wear it today, not because like I'm trying to
Speaker 3: show up. I was just going on my beach walk.
Speaker 3: I was gonna wear it because like, I wasn't gonna
Speaker 3: fucking wear the thong because I did the show and
Speaker 3: I had picked my two beating suits, and I said
Speaker 3: to the editor in chief the one of the ones
Speaker 3: who was the one piece, like, go, I like that
Speaker 3: to one piece because I still know that I'm a
Speaker 3: mom and I know how old I am. Whatever I say,
Speaker 3: all this bullshit that I don't know is bullshit. Yet
Speaker 3: I'm in the dressing room and the woman who one
Speaker 3: of the women who works there, her hand comes in
Speaker 3: and I'm trying bathings to son after just for fun,
Speaker 3: we've already picked the two and I go, is this
Speaker 3: and she's like, yup, And it's a thong like but
Speaker 3: not a thong, like a literal piece of string up.
Speaker 1: Your ass string.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, that's the difference. So so I go, I
Speaker 3: go okay, and I'm laughing because it's a joke. And
Speaker 3: I put it on and I start to put the
Speaker 3: top on it. I'm like, wait what And I come
Speaker 3: out and that's when they're like, we're giving this bitch
Speaker 3: a third look because we.
Speaker 1: All I don't think any of us thought. And I
Speaker 1: was like, okay.
Speaker 3: And when I was at that show, there were evy
Speaker 3: girls rocking little bikinis, and I thought it looked great.
Speaker 3: But I would never have if I was shopping with
Speaker 3: those girls, I wouldn't have suggested that they put those
Speaker 3: on because of the constructs that we've had. And I
Speaker 3: swear after that show, I thought, like every freaking girl
Speaker 3: and every size wearing a bikini, wear whatever you want.
Speaker 3: It felt they really landed for me. Was I have
Speaker 3: a different feeling about it now.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny is one, I haven't more on
Speaker 2: a song and so long, i'd be terrified that all
Speaker 2: I would do is pick my butt publicly because I
Speaker 2: would feel something that's a functional problem. Yeah. And then two,
Speaker 2: I'm so over being looked at in that way that
Speaker 2: I would just cover my ass because I don't want
Speaker 2: anyone to look at me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, And I would understand if someone wasn't, I guess
Speaker 2: objectified the way I was for that long. And they're
Speaker 2: like feeling themselves now that they'd want to get a
Speaker 2: little taste of that. The thing is, I ate from
Speaker 2: that table. It's not that good. I'm good. I'm over it.
Speaker 2: I could wear it.
Speaker 3: You had an identity that was based on showing your look.
Speaker 3: So that's truah, and that makes a perfect sense to me. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just mean, as I raised a fifteen year old daughter,
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of things completely differently, and I just if
Speaker 3: I can only give her one thing, it would be
Speaker 3: like that she would be backstage with me and like
Speaker 3: walking down that runway to like see how those girls
Speaker 3: like love their body whatever it is, Like it was
Speaker 3: just so contagious and so I like that message. And
Speaker 3: I just think that there's part of this in society
Speaker 3: that's changed about let's say modeling, which you can speak
Speaker 3: to that I like this part that I just experienced
Speaker 3: because it was like it's positive for women.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I have to agree. And again, when we're
Speaker 2: purchasing something that's supposed to accentuate our bodies and like
Speaker 2: the best of ways where you're like half naked, it's
Speaker 2: nice to see all different body types showing you what
Speaker 2: this stuff will look like on your body, as opposed
Speaker 2: to this inhuman alien that's been shot down from the
Speaker 2: planet Zultron with this perfect body that you know none
Speaker 2: of us can obtain or we don't have like, if
Speaker 2: you have hips, you want to see somebody in something
Speaker 2: that has some hips to see what that's going to
Speaker 2: look like on you. That's just how I feel.
Speaker 3: But also to the point of the era that you
Speaker 3: came up in of being a vapid, vacant lookoff and
Speaker 3: gazed and don't have fun and don't dance, and you're
Speaker 3: not human, You're a hangar, I would say, honestly speaking
Speaker 3: with the long hair I had and the glazel over
Speaker 3: my body and the bathing suits and a song. I
Speaker 3: just walked down that runway like in some version where
Speaker 3: I rocked it as like a model, Like just walking,
Speaker 3: what are you going to costume trying to be a model?
Speaker 3: I was myself having fun, Like what I looked like
Speaker 3: was like accentuating it. But I was genuinely being myself
Speaker 3: and I was happy. And I think the reason it's
Speaker 3: landing for all these women with all these body types
Speaker 3: that are not part of the content, thinking it should
Speaker 3: be they walk I saw their personalities first. I think
Speaker 3: people saw me being alive and happy first, and everything
Speaker 3: else came together. I think it all it's about being happy,
Speaker 3: and you were miserable doing what you were doing and
Speaker 3: everybody on America's Top Model seems to have been miserable,
Speaker 3: and everybody here's modeling.
Speaker 2: Here was funny. It's personality driven now, like influencers and
Speaker 2: all this stuff, it's all personality driven. I was told
Speaker 2: in modeling that I need to tone it the fuck down,
Speaker 2: that it's not about me or who I am, just
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up and do my job. And that's
Speaker 2: when I went into more reality TV and I went
Speaker 2: and did the Surreal Life because I was like, fine,
Speaker 2: I'll go and make money being who I am since
Speaker 2: you people think I need to shut the f up
Speaker 2: and stop being made like. I would be on sets
Speaker 2: with a bunch of models that they just wouldn't speak.
Speaker 2: It'd just be like sitting there and getting their makeup done,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, man, this is some bullshit, oh ladies,
Speaker 2: and everyone's looking at me like what. Or if a
Speaker 2: photographer was gross, I'd just call them out on it
Speaker 2: right there. I'd be like, bro, like what are you doing?
Speaker 2: And everyone's like, oh, I can't believe you said, And
Speaker 2: I'm like what is this? Like what am I in?
Speaker 1: Okay? So that's what I think the real difference is.
Speaker 3: That's what I think, and I actually think fashion should
Speaker 3: take a note out of this book. So here's what
Speaker 3: I think. Like, I do not I can afford anything
Speaker 3: I want. I don't have a stylist. Now, I think
Speaker 3: I dress fairly well. If I want to go out
Speaker 3: to something, I think I can rock something. I always
Speaker 3: create something in my mind creatively about where I'm going
Speaker 3: to be, what I want to wear, what I want
Speaker 3: to put it with, how I want to do my hair,
Speaker 3: like I come up with a little thing, you know,
Speaker 3: and not long like I'll just and I.
Speaker 1: Always shot my own closet.
Speaker 3: So now people who get invited to the met Gala,
Speaker 3: oh or fashion icons are people whose stylists choose their
Speaker 3: entire look head to toe. Now a little assistance is
Speaker 3: something calling a designer's one thing. But there are people
Speaker 3: who do not dress or seem anything like what they
Speaker 3: used to look like, because they are now dressed as
Speaker 3: a stylist like painting.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that that's fashion.
Speaker 3: And what's interesting is that Anna Wintour herself has basically said,
Speaker 3: and so Tom Ford talked about it too, that he
Speaker 3: used to like what the mcali used to be versus
Speaker 3: like now it's like a theatrical performance.
Speaker 1: Yes, which I do get.
Speaker 3: I get that because it's expressive and Rihanna comes out
Speaker 3: and it's drama.
Speaker 1: I get that.
Speaker 3: But the people whose personal fashion style is based on
Speaker 3: a stylust that end up getting invited as a result
Speaker 3: of that, to me, that doesn't make any sense because
Speaker 3: it's not that person, you know.
Speaker 2: It's it's comic con for famous people where they all
Speaker 2: cosplay things that they're not. That's what I see. It's
Speaker 2: a bunch of cos players that are famous dressing up
Speaker 2: as characters that they are not. And I mean, I
Speaker 2: agree with you. I a mess when people would wear
Speaker 2: shit that spoke to who they were and now it's
Speaker 2: just like very hunger games.
Speaker 3: And I think fashion should make the adjustment that modeling
Speaker 3: has into it being someone's personal style and you get
Speaker 3: to see what they would do, like what the person
Speaker 3: chooses on their own, not that they go hire someone.
Speaker 3: That should be That should be illegal, like the way
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, that should be like you
Speaker 3: get you get points out for that, like.
Speaker 1: Anna, because Anna Wintour doesn't dress like that.
Speaker 3: She herself wears the same couple of episodes and she's
Speaker 3: got a personal style that is hers, it's timeless.
Speaker 1: It's what her style is.
Speaker 3: And so she has said before someone should dress in
Speaker 3: a way to speak to them, like she's been quoted.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the exact quote is or many times,
Speaker 3: but like that, it's natural to them, So it's it's contradictory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think everyone's just turned into a stage performer.
Speaker 2: It's like Steven Tyler and money wears on stage like
Speaker 2: no one. I don't know. I think I always hated
Speaker 2: the word influencer, but I guess it's the modern day
Speaker 2: reality stars. People on social media. They are stealing the
Speaker 2: thunder from celebrities because celebrities are still faking everything and
Speaker 2: they don't know who they are inside, and then the
Speaker 2: people on social media know who they are. It's being
Speaker 2: projected out there and people are liking what they're selling
Speaker 2: and buying into it. So I think people look at
Speaker 2: stuff like the Matt Gala and you just see a
Speaker 2: sea of people that aren't very self aware or tapped
Speaker 2: into who they are or being told what to like
Speaker 2: and do, and it's not working because people like people
Speaker 2: are so tired of everything being fake. Filters this that
Speaker 2: that you know, if you put yourself out there just
Speaker 2: being you. They're like eating it up like it's manna
Speaker 2: from heaven. They're so starved for it.
Speaker 3: That's what exactly. Yeah, you should have a pot. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3: That's exactly how I feel. And that's exactly where the
Speaker 3: universe met me where I am because that's what I've
Speaker 3: always been, and I think that that's that's that's how
Speaker 3: citizen's journalism is started. That's my mainstream celebrities with the
Speaker 3: script and the gloss and the shine. It's not working
Speaker 3: because you can't pr your way out of life anymore.
Speaker 2: Unless your Tom Cruise is working for Tom Well, he has.
Speaker 3: Very specific roles and he doesn't talk that much about
Speaker 3: other things besides the roles and the work.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's exactly.
Speaker 3: Well. Wow, I could talk to you forever. I think
Speaker 3: you're amazing. So this was thank you, a great.
Speaker 2: Conversation, fellow reality og.
Speaker 3: Yes, very very good to talk to you. My instincts
Speaker 3: were right about talking to you.
Speaker 1: I like you a lot. I think you're really smart
Speaker 1: and very honest.
Speaker 3: So saying I hope to speak to you again, I
Speaker 3: hope Avon calls you and gets you involved in a
Speaker 3: bigger way. That's what I'm manifesting for you, and I
Speaker 3: hope you do a little like garage band podcast for you.
Speaker 3: For anyone else, I just like, just talk to a
Speaker 3: couple of people.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just think you should. That's what
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: It's it doesn't matter what I think, but it matters
Speaker 3: what you think. So it's so nice talking to you
Speaker 3: and meeting you, and hope you man you too.
Speaker 2: Bye lady.