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Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound on.

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Speaker 1: We are actually going to do the largest infrastructure build

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Speaker 1: ever in America's history. The more extraordinary the extraordinary measures get,

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Speaker 1: the harder it is to put pressure on Congress Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. So,

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Speaker 1: why wouldn't you try a primary against President Biden were

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Speaker 1: to decide to run again? You guys know you speak

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Speaker 1: to overt audience. The death ceiling is a completely manufactured

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Speaker 1: Carson Bloomberg sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: So how many plates can a president's spin? Already making

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Speaker 1: the sales pitch on the infrastructure bill that passed last week,

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Speaker 1: whipping votes, twisting arms for a social spending plan that's

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Speaker 1: not yet complete. President Biden adds another, the Federal Reserve

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Speaker 1: now spinning as well, with the Bloomberg scooped day that

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Speaker 1: Leo Brainerd was interviewed for the top job at the Fed.

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Speaker 1: And that is on top of the three potential seats

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Speaker 1: to fill that we discussed yesterday. We're gonna spin each

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Speaker 1: of those plates this hour. We'll start with Congressman Hank Johnson,

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Speaker 1: Democrat from Georgia on the timeline for the Biden economic

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Speaker 1: plan and how the Congressional Progressive Caucus is strategizing for

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Speaker 1: possible votes next week. Later, we'll be joined by Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Washington Bureau chief Peggy Collins to dig into the politics

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Speaker 1: behind the FED, the risks and potential opportunities for this

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Speaker 1: White House and the panel. Today, Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick

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Speaker 1: Davis is with us for the hour, along with Max Burns,

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Speaker 1: Democratic strategist, founder of Third Degree Strategy. The President, as

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Speaker 1: we told you, is heading to Baltimore tomorrow to make

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Speaker 1: the case for his economic agenda, starting with what has

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Speaker 1: already been passed as Biden and cabinet secretaries fan out

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Speaker 1: around the country with travel plans the next couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks to sell the storyline. Yesterday we heard from Transportation

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Speaker 1: Secretary Pete boodhed Edge in the White House briefing room.

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Speaker 1: Today was the Commerce Secretary's turn. Gina Romando was asked

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Speaker 1: how money from this infrastructure bill now past will be

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Speaker 1: distributed to states and eventually two projects. Everyone gets a

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Speaker 1: hundred million. Beyond that, it will be based upon unserved

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Speaker 1: based pon need. We're going to give out a grant

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Speaker 1: per state, and each state will then give grants to

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Speaker 1: sub grantees on the ground. We are, as I just said,

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Speaker 1: very focused on equity and making sure there's affordability and ubiquity,

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Speaker 1: which means we have to be flexible. Did you get

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Speaker 1: all that Every state starts with a hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 1: then more based on need and equity. This is not

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Speaker 1: to be confused with shovel ready, Romando telling reporters there today,

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Speaker 1: major construction projects would not start until, as she put it,

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Speaker 1: well into next year. The exception broadband broadband internet access.

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Speaker 1: Some people could begin receiving it by the into this year.

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Speaker 1: We've heard that before from the President, Romando confirming that

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Speaker 1: or reiterating it. Others. Though you get out in the

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Speaker 1: rural areas, you're going to have to wait a lot longer,

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Speaker 1: could be months, maybe well into next year, toward the

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Speaker 1: following year, as fiber is laid down in the countryside.

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Speaker 1: That's the hard infrastructure. The soft infrastructure they say could

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Speaker 1: come together as soon as next week. We're still going

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Speaker 1: with this till that's not happening. That's when Speaker Pelosi

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Speaker 1: agreed with Progressives to vote on the Build Back Better plan. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's the week of November fifty, they said, And we

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Speaker 1: talked about it right now with Congressman Hank Johnson, Democrat

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Speaker 1: from the inner eastern suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: you're here with us today, Congress been welcome. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if you expect to vote on that bill next week. Yeah, Joe,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me. And we are excited having

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Speaker 1: reached agreement with some of the House Conservatives who have

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Speaker 1: pledged in writing to support the bill back Better bill,

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Speaker 1: which we will consider during the week of no limit

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Speaker 1: of fifteen, so next week. Looking forward to that bill

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Speaker 1: passing out of the House. Well, that would be a

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Speaker 1: major development. And I know that those moderate or some

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Speaker 1: call them conservative Democrats wanted to see CBO scores. They

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Speaker 1: wanted to be able to sit down with the bill.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this quite a bit yesterday. It's be

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Speaker 1: quite a job, I guess for the Congressional Budget Office

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Speaker 1: to get all of this done. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: will happen to satisfy their needs? Well, I'm hopeful that

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Speaker 1: that a an assessment will come back from uh the

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Speaker 1: Budget Office putting a number, and I expect that number

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Speaker 1: to be uh, deficit of debt neutral and perhaps it

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Speaker 1: may even build back better, may even raise enough revenue

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Speaker 1: revenue to put a debt in the in the nation's day.

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Speaker 1: It where you are in the as I mentioned the

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Speaker 1: suburbs of Atlanta, you're not dealing with the same challenges

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Speaker 1: of rural areas. Congressman, I wonder what in this infrastructure

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Speaker 1: bill just passed. The BIF as opposed to the BBB,

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Speaker 1: is bringing constituents in your areas that you represent that

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Speaker 1: they did not have before. Obviously there was access to broadband.

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Speaker 1: Will this make it more affordable? Yeah, definitely, sixty five

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Speaker 1: billion dollars is in Uh. The bipartisan Infrastructure build for

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Speaker 1: broadband and broadband needs to be extended not just to

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Speaker 1: rural areas. Those areas are certainly needy, but areas like

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Speaker 1: the one that I represent, where uh you find high

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Speaker 1: concentrations of black people and other people of color. We

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Speaker 1: too have gone without extension of broadband into our areas,

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Speaker 1: and so suburban areas, urban areas, and rural areas will

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Speaker 1: benefit from from that investment in broadband extension. But things

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Speaker 1: like transit, UH. Transit is going to come to many

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Speaker 1: rural areas as transit UH is UH increased the capacity, UH.

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Speaker 1: The expansion of service UH for for transit is going

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Speaker 1: to happen in areas like the one that I represent,

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Speaker 1: which is a suburban area. There's also money for rural

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Speaker 1: transit UH for the first time. And so this is

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Speaker 1: UH you know, thirty nine billion dollars in public transit

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Speaker 1: is the most significant investment that's been made that will

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Speaker 1: be made in transit UH public transit in UH seventy

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Speaker 1: years track they right. So with that set though, we

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Speaker 1: just heard from the Commerce Secretary. Congressman Commerce Sector Gena

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Speaker 1: Romando asked, you know, how much of this will be

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Speaker 1: in place? How much of this will actually touch people's

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Speaker 1: lives before they have to make important decisions in the

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Speaker 1: midterm elections. It sounds like it's going to take years

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Speaker 1: to get all this done. Well, this is actually a

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Speaker 1: bill that will unfold over the next ten years. But

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Speaker 1: we will see uh you know, upgrading and maintenance of

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Speaker 1: roads and bridges. That work is going to start immediately.

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Speaker 1: Over Over six hundred thousand new jobs will be created

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Speaker 1: UH as a result of passing UH the Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal.

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Speaker 1: And that happens in the next year, for instance, before

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Speaker 1: people go to the pulse, that's going to happen, uh,

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Speaker 1: pretty immediately, new jobs being created. We're going to see

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Speaker 1: an investment in um electric electric vehicle charging stations. I

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Speaker 1: mean that money is needed right now, those services, those

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Speaker 1: charging stations, over forty three thousand charging stations being paid

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Speaker 1: for under the Bipartisan Infrastructure Deal. Electric buses that are

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Speaker 1: going to clean up the community that they serve instead

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Speaker 1: of spewing diesel fuel, will have clean electric buses. Well,

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Speaker 1: I ask you about the timeline because it you know,

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Speaker 1: it does come up a lot, and you're still dealing

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Speaker 1: with this massive potential piece of legislation next week. Congressman Johnson,

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Speaker 1: you say you expect the vote on that or at

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Speaker 1: least for the House to take it up. I think

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Speaker 1: were the words that you use next week. There's one

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Speaker 1: thing that not a lot of people are talking about

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Speaker 1: right now because our attention gets pulled in so many

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Speaker 1: different directions, Congressmen, and that is the debt ceiling. The

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Speaker 1: fact that we're going to have to deal with this

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Speaker 1: debt ceiling issue again on the third of December. Are

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Speaker 1: you worried about another collision of deadlines? Well? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: am concerned, like UH everyone is in terms of Republicans

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Speaker 1: pay playing chicken with a dead ceiling vote. It's something

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Speaker 1: that we're going to have to um overcome. Why not

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Speaker 1: just get it all done through reconciliation. Wouldn't that make

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Speaker 1: it easier after what we went through the last couple

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Speaker 1: of months. Well, it's certainly a possibility. UM. When the

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Speaker 1: Senate votes on the Build Back Better UH legislation that

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Speaker 1: the House will pass out next week, UH, they have

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to do just that. Would you support that

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Speaker 1: moves to stuff at all into one package? Yeah? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's what budget reconciliation is all about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the dead ceiling, the essence of of revenue and UH

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Speaker 1: and spending. UH. It's falls squarely within reconciliation. And if

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Speaker 1: the Senate feeds fit to take up reconciliation with UH

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Speaker 1: the Build Back Better legislation, than that will be fine

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Speaker 1: with me. Congressman, I just want to mention, while you're

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Speaker 1: with us, the loss of a colleague of yours. Max Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: of course, a senator from Georgia served honorably in the

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Speaker 1: Vietnam War, died at his home in Atlanta at seventy nine. Today,

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Speaker 1: I wonder how well you knew him and what your

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Speaker 1: thoughts are. Yeah, I you know, I would run into

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Speaker 1: Max uh from time to time. Uh. He was a

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Speaker 1: warmhearted individual, always treated me kindly whenever we would see

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Speaker 1: each other. More the time, he would grab me with

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Speaker 1: his one on and pulled me towards him and for

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Speaker 1: a hug. And I don't care whether or not we

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Speaker 1: were both sweating or not. But he that's just the

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Speaker 1: kind of guy that he was. Uh. He he was

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Speaker 1: a human being who won over adversity. He was irreplaceable, irrie,

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Speaker 1: he was was indefatigable. Um. He you could not break him,

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Speaker 1: you could not make him stop living. From Georgia's fourth

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Speaker 1: Congressional district. Thank you, congressman. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound

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Speaker 1: On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The headline on

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Speaker 1: the terminal governor soon news to run for re election

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Speaker 1: rather than seek Senate And we've been waiting for this one.

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Speaker 1: The Republican governor of New Hampshire said, thanks no, thanks

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Speaker 1: to a run against Democratic Senator Maggie Hasson. Listen to

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Speaker 1: his rationale from a news conference today. We have governor soon.

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Speaker 1: But my responsibility is not to the gridlock in politics

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Speaker 1: of Washington, is to the citizens of New Hampshire. And

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Speaker 1: I'd rather push myself a hundred twenty miles an hour

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Speaker 1: delivering wins for New Hampshire than to slow down end

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Speaker 1: up on Capitol Hill debating partisan politics without results. That's

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Speaker 1: why I'm going to run for a fourth term. And

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Speaker 1: I'd be honored if the people in New Hampshire would

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Speaker 1: elect me again as their governor. Senator Hasn't was considered

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Speaker 1: one of the most vulnerable Democrats in the Senate. So

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Speaker 1: what does this mean for the mid terms or a

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Speaker 1: Democrats handling those all on their own. We assemble the

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Speaker 1: panel now with Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis along with

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Speaker 1: Max Burns today, democratic strategist founder of Third Degree Strategies,

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Speaker 1: Rick did Chris Sanon, who just keep that seat in

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Speaker 1: Democratic hands? Yeah, I think so. I think it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be kind of too late to find a decent challenger

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Speaker 1: can create the name, I D raise the funds and

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Speaker 1: put an organization place too even come close to replicating

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Speaker 1: the popularity that Governor snoon ww has. I think that

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Speaker 1: would have been a Republican win in two, but back

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Speaker 1: to square one, and early indications that I've heard is

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Speaker 1: some of the other major names in the state I

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Speaker 1: don't have appetite for the Senate and make it even

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Speaker 1: tougher for McConnell and his team to recruit a new candidate. Max,

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Speaker 1: what's your thought on this as a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: were looking to New Hampshire for being, you know, part

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Speaker 1: of the reason that Republicans could potentially retake the Senate.

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Speaker 1: What does it mean for the body as a whole

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Speaker 1: the mid terms. Yeah, I think this is definitely a

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Speaker 1: gift for Democrats and was really the guy to take

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Speaker 1: on Maggie Hassen here, and to some extent it is

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Speaker 1: uh interesting that he decided that this was not for

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Speaker 1: him temperamentally the Senate, And I think there may that

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Speaker 1: may be a very legitimate from Chris s Unu that

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Speaker 1: there are people who just do not feel that the

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Speaker 1: Senate is the place to get work done if you

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Speaker 1: want to get ambitious work done as a politician. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be interesting. Gonna be interesting to see

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Speaker 1: how this shakes out as we get into more uh

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Speaker 1: competitive areas in the middle of the country. I think

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Speaker 1: you're starting to see a similar mirror of what we

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Speaker 1: saw last cycle, which is a lot of Democrats now

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Speaker 1: starting to announce that they're not going to seek re election,

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Speaker 1: and that is always a bad sign for the party

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Speaker 1: in power. I want to talk to you about this,

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Speaker 1: uh this Rick, this idea that everyone sits around in

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Speaker 1: the Senate and does nothing. You might actually agree, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but you spent enough of your life working

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Speaker 1: in the Senate and and working with Senator John McCain

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Speaker 1: kind of understanding how the body works that I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Maybe people outside of the Senate just don't get it,

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Speaker 1: but this this impression that these guys in suits kind

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Speaker 1: of lay around and do nothing all day and have

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Speaker 1: nothing to show for it. Yeah, I think that's a

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Speaker 1: way over statement. I think there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: really great things that happened in the United sentence. Some

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Speaker 1: of the greatest reforms and opportunities created in the last

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Speaker 1: century have come through government. Now, I totally disagree that

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Speaker 1: government ought to be driving our economy and things like that,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's nonetheless. I mean, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: where the planning and and and funding for our national

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Speaker 1: defense and security goes virtually a percent of the time

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Speaker 1: is a bipartisan effort through collaboration. This is where technology

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Speaker 1: policy has done, usually through bipartisan cooperation. I mean media

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Speaker 1: does have a tendency to focus on the hotness right

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Speaker 1: when when when there's a big fight, but that is

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Speaker 1: a small percentage of the activity of this of this Congress.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look at what just happened last week. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was a bipartisan effort to push infrastructure reform met

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Speaker 1: with a bipartisan effort in the House, and yet we

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Speaker 1: must have spent thousands of hours talking about the partisan

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Speaker 1: riffs that made that, you know, require three more months

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Speaker 1: than it probably needed to to get past. So ltimately,

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Speaker 1: government does function. I don't think anybody thinks it functions smoothly.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think our framers wanted it to function smoothly.

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Speaker 1: They wanted it to be a hard thing. That's uh

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Speaker 1: so true and something that people just don't think about

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Speaker 1: when they watch this so closely, that minutia like you're

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Speaker 1: talking about Rick day in and day out. I'd like

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Speaker 1: to expand the conversation to the mid terms broadly. Now, Rick,

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Speaker 1: we haven't spoken since that bill was passed on Friday night.

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Speaker 1: How important will it be now that that's done, and

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Speaker 1: the potential for another package to be done, the soft

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Speaker 1: infrastructure deal next week and actually see it, have people

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Speaker 1: see it in their towns, traffic, cones, cranes, things actually happening.

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Speaker 1: How much is that going to matter as opposed to well,

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Speaker 1: the money has approved, we got it done. Well. The

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Speaker 1: first thing that matters is the public selling of that. Right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the public has actually only heard about the

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Speaker 1: controversy surrounding this, and they don't really tune in to

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Speaker 1: the details because it doesn't it's not law. Right when

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Speaker 1: it becomes law, then they say, okay, now we'll pay

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Speaker 1: tension because half the time Congress doesn't actually get the

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Speaker 1: job done. And so I am shocked that the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration hasn't done a full court press putting every single

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Speaker 1: Cabinet member on the road into key states, into key districts,

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Speaker 1: selling an accomplishment that it any other time in the

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Speaker 1: last ten years, would have been a mighty occurrence, bipartisan

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Speaker 1: infrastructure bill where the trillions of dollars, a trillion dollars,

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Speaker 1: and yet it's like, you know, former Governor Gina Ramundo

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Speaker 1: was like the talking head today that's on you know,

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Speaker 1: one small aspect of it. I don't get it. I

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Speaker 1: know some of it's because they've got a lot more

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Speaker 1: to do and they've now focused and shifted their focus

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Speaker 1: to the billback Butter plan. But I think that's a mistake.

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Speaker 1: I think that if you don't sell it to the public,

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Speaker 1: they won't think it's important. A lot more talk to

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Speaker 1: me about the FED than we sometimes get on a

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Speaker 1: FED day here in Washington. After reading on the terminal,

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Speaker 1: Leo Brainerd interviewed for the Big Job FED chair during

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Speaker 1: her visit to the White House last week. We knew

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Speaker 1: she is in the building. Now we know what they

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Speaker 1: were talking about. We also know she's more popular among progressives,

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Speaker 1: the only Democrat on the board. And of course President

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Speaker 1: Biden is said to prefer Powell. He constantly refers to

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Speaker 1: him when the issue of inflation comes up. My administration

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Speaker 1: understands that if we were to ever experience unchecked inflation

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Speaker 1: over the long term, that would pose a real challenge

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Speaker 1: to our economy. So while we're confident that isn't what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing today, we're gonna reain vigilant about any response

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Speaker 1: that is needed. As I might clear the Chairman Paul

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Speaker 1: of the Federal Reserve when we met recently, the FED

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Speaker 1: is independent to take whatever steps it deems necessary to

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Speaker 1: support a strong, durable economic recovery. The most recent reference

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Speaker 1: Biden has made to Chair Powell when referring again to

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Speaker 1: inflationary concerns. Of course, that issue has been coming up

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Speaker 1: a lot, so with news of the Brainerd interview the

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Speaker 1: Quarrels resignation announcement yesterday, we talked about the seat that

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Speaker 1: will soon be left open by Vice Chair Richard Clarida,

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Speaker 1: and a seat already open. President Biden has some big

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Speaker 1: decisions to make and what could be some big opportunities too,

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Speaker 1: So let's get into them with Peggy Collins. A great

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Speaker 1: chance to talk with Bloomberg's Washington bureau chief, and Peggy,

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Speaker 1: we thank you for being here. This is a big scoop,

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Speaker 1: so congratulations, but though should we we should not assume

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Speaker 1: that President Biden will give brainer the job. Right, There's

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Speaker 1: a much bigger conversation here I'd love to have with

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Speaker 1: you is It seems to me the Quarrels departure gives

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Speaker 1: him even more options to potentially reshape the FED, including

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Speaker 1: promoting brainer to that supervisory role. How do you see

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden attacking all of this is a kind of

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Speaker 1: a wholesale change of landscape at the FT. So as

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Speaker 1: you said, Joe, there are potentially really now an open

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Speaker 1: lane for four seats for Biden to fill on the FED,

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Speaker 1: so he can really reshape the FED in his image

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Speaker 1: or in America's image, as they have talked about in

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Speaker 1: terms of filling those slots. But it does leave a

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Speaker 1: lot of open questions. We've been reporting this hard. As

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Speaker 1: you said, my colleagues Craig tourist Jennifer Jacobson Slamson had

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Speaker 1: the story out last night that basically confirmed as you

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Speaker 1: said that we that last week when Brainerd met with Biden,

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Speaker 1: they talked about the FED chair slot, and he met

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Speaker 1: with pal as well for for that same slaughter, for

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Speaker 1: the renewal of him as chair for a second term.

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Speaker 1: Note that his term is up in February, so they

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of time left to decide this.

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Speaker 1: And as you said, Brainard is also a top contender

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Speaker 1: for the VC of Supervision, which is the seat that

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Speaker 1: quarrels Um is exiting or has exited really from a

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Speaker 1: technical point of view. The term was up in October,

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Speaker 1: but he announced yesterday that he will step aside at

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Speaker 1: the end of this year. I think what we're really

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out here is how does the White

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Speaker 1: House decide this the political advantage and potentially and maybe

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Speaker 1: doing even more changes to the FED and possibly putting

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Speaker 1: Brainard in the chair slot or potentially a king with

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Speaker 1: Powell another term which has been the tradition of presidents

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Speaker 1: when they first come into office until Trump, who who

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Speaker 1: did change up yelling for Powell? I was gaming this

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Speaker 1: south this morning with the with the guys on surveillance.

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Speaker 1: Here we are in the in the pre dawn darkness,

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Speaker 1: trying to come up with a way forward here and

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Speaker 1: it it does seem to me that with what we

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Speaker 1: know in terms of progressive and moderate and Republican concerns

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Speaker 1: and demands when it comes to the FED, the growing

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Speaker 1: concern about inflation on the Republican side, all the while

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Speaker 1: Senator Elizabeth Warren calling Chair Powell a dangerous man, gives

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden the potential for a couple of things, a

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Speaker 1: couple of things to accomplish. Number One, he can look

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Speaker 1: like by keeping Powell in the chairmanship can maintain continuity

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Speaker 1: in the markets and prove to people that he's not

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Speaker 1: cow towing to progressives. But all the while, this beautiful

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Speaker 1: opportunity here to elevate an individual preferred by progressives brainerd

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Speaker 1: into that supervisory role, and and the other seats the

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Speaker 1: claritists see the others to help diversify the FED. More Democrats,

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Speaker 1: more people of color. Isn't that a win for this

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Speaker 1: White House? Well, I think, as you said, they do

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Speaker 1: have four seats to play with, so that's positive for

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Speaker 1: them in terms of optionality. And there are three main

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Speaker 1: issues I think at play for the Democrats and the

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Speaker 1: progressives at the crossroads here. It's financial regulation, which brainer

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Speaker 1: has seen as tougher than Pale on financial regulation. There's

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Speaker 1: climate change, where a lot of Democrats are pushing the

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Speaker 1: FED to go further on that issue in terms of

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Speaker 1: its guidance, its disclosures, its rules around that for the

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Speaker 1: banking industry in particular. And then the third is the

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Speaker 1: point that you made, Joe, it's diversity in terms of

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Speaker 1: the FED looking more like America and having a bit

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Speaker 1: a bigger cross section of people at the top there. Peggy,

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Speaker 1: I'm coming to you asking purely about politics, because that's

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Speaker 1: what we do want sound on here. But how about policy?

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Speaker 1: We know that Joe Biden is a fan of j Powell.

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Speaker 1: The policy seemed to be working. He's he's got I guess,

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Speaker 1: just the right mild manner that that Biden wants to

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Speaker 1: see presiding over this markets. How much of a change

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Speaker 1: in policy would come with with a brainer chairmanship. Some

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Speaker 1: folks suggest that we would have lower interest rates for longer.

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Speaker 1: What would that mean for the markets? That's a great question, Joe.

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Speaker 1: So I think two things on that. In terms of

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Speaker 1: the devishness which which the market often uses that term

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Speaker 1: dovish or hawkish when they talk about the Fed, so

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Speaker 1: Brainerd is seen as as devish, if not more devish

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Speaker 1: than Pale, meaning that the markets think she would probably

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Speaker 1: keep interest rates lower for longer until the recovery in

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Speaker 1: the labor market was came back even more. So that's

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Speaker 1: the view they have, um. But in general they are

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Speaker 1: very you know, they are together. You know, Powell is

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Speaker 1: seen as devilish as well right now, and Pale and

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Speaker 1: Brainerd have both talked a lot about the new framework,

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Speaker 1: which which came into play in August and was announced

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Speaker 1: by Powell. Right, the certain Brainerd had a lot of

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Speaker 1: input on that, but it also has seen as as

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Speaker 1: one of his signature accomplishments of his time as FED chairs.

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Speaker 1: So they are both kind of they are both kind

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Speaker 1: of looking a lot at the labor market and trying

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Speaker 1: to get it back to where it was not only

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Speaker 1: in February, but possibly even better than that we find

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Speaker 1: out by Thanksgiving. What do you think that's I mean,

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Speaker 1: that is what I'm sure Senator shared Brown has said

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Speaker 1: on our own networks that he expects it by Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 1: We're getting ready and trying to chase it down. Well,

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Speaker 1: I had to put you on the spotlight that Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for coming in to talk to us

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Speaker 1: about the big School. Peggy Collins, Bloomberg Washington Bureau chief

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Speaker 1: with news on her team moving markets today, getting a

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Speaker 1: lot of attention. You're listening to Bloomberg you sound on

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Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. I started this hour

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Speaker 1: talking about the plates this president has spinning in the air,

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Speaker 1: and the Federal Reserve is a big one right now.

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Speaker 1: It's not just infrastructure and reconciliation anymore. That I mentioned

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Speaker 1: the debt ceiling. Oh, yeah, we did. The President is

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Speaker 1: not I have much time to pull a rabbit out

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Speaker 1: of his hat on the FED trick here, So let's

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Speaker 1: get into it with the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick

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Speaker 1: Davis is with us for the hour, along with Max

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Speaker 1: Burn's democratic strategist and founder of Third Degree Strategies, Max As.

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Speaker 1: I've been saying, some presidents get the Supreme Court, others

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Speaker 1: get the Fed. Apparently that's Joe Biden. So how does

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Speaker 1: he make this an opportunity for his administration to actually

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Speaker 1: score some points. Well, this is a great chance to

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Speaker 1: offer the left something to make up for all of

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Speaker 1: the things that they sacrificed on infrastructure and will soon

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Speaker 1: sacrifice on build back better. And that's because the left

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Speaker 1: has really been skeptical of Jerome Powell and the general

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Speaker 1: culture at the FED. There's been a lot of talk

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Speaker 1: about resignations around insider trading. Jerome Powell made some traits

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Speaker 1: himself that we're not insider trading, but nonetheless looked questionable

432
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 1: in the broader scheme. And you're saying, give Lil Brainerd

433
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: the job. That's that's the opportunity. Yeah, that's the big job,

434
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: not the supervisory role. But that the chairmanship of the fete.

435
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: What a Republican is going to say about that? I

436
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: think at this point, Republicans are going to oppose almost

437
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: anything Joe Biden does, regardless of whether it's it's a

438
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 1: progressive individual or a centrist or conservative individual. We've seen that,

439
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: and I don't think Joe Biden should necessarily be triangulating

440
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 1: his policy decisions based on trying to appease Republicans who

441
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: seemed fairly unappeasable right now. It seems like they'd be

442
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: a lot more likely to approve j Powell for uh

443
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: an extension here. Rick Davis could could layle brainerd even

444
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: be confirmed. Yeah, I think he could be confirmed. But

445
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: I think that the number one thing that Joe Biden's

446
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: gotta worry about is just do no harm. Right. It's

447
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: not like the economy is trucking along exactly how he

448
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 1: wants it to. You know, he's had a really choppy

449
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: labor market rates you know, have been pushing higher and

450
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: higher in inflationary categories. I mean, the one thing he

451
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: doesn't want to do start a progression of events where

452
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: he puts people in place that are gonna somehow upset

453
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: a very tenuous economy, and that's what Republicans will be

454
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: looking for that. I can't imagine anybody really cares these

455
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 1: days about the Progressives. I mean, they were the hold

456
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: up in the Biden economic agenda, and the fact that

457
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: they're complaining about monetary policy when they can't even get

458
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: their fiscal policy in order is like stunning to me.

459
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: So well, depending on who you're talking, I mean, Elizabeth

460
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: Warren would tell you it's banking regulation, it's insider trading

461
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: and so forth. But maybe I should ask this a

462
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: little bit differently. Could Layle Brainard be confirmed as the

463
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: new in that new supervisory role if if we'll call

464
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: that a promotion for the case of this conversation, these

465
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: are all jobs that have to get Republican approval, right, Well,

466
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: I think they just need UH votes and so you

467
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: would not be such a hard thing for the Democrats

468
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: if and you can actually stay together on this kind

469
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: of an appointment. Right, So, how do you do that

470
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: with Joe Manchin? Well, I think you've got to actually

471
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: start talking to Joe Manchon. I mean, he's actually pretty

472
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: clear about the things he's foreign, things he's against. Most

473
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: of the noise on Chairman Pale's reappointment has come out

474
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: of the you know, the Progressive Caucus in the House

475
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: of Representatives and so. But like the I think you

476
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: mentioned this earlier, the longer they delay on this pick

477
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: is the less time they have to actually get a

478
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: confirmation process going. They should before long start having those conversations,

479
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: because if they do have a problem with a Braynard confirmation,

480
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: then they ought to know that before Joe Biden makes

481
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: his selection. Well. Yeah, there's also less time to maintain

482
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: continuity in the markets here, Max. If this president finds

483
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: himself being blamed for volatility, turning his back on inflation,

484
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: this is obviously not what you want to start the

485
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: year with or end the year with on Wall Street.

486
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: But it's also it's these other deadlines. December three, the

487
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: debt ceiling, government funding, we haven't passed reconciliation yet, and

488
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: now you're gonna reshape the Fed, Max, how do you

489
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: do it all? Well? I think Rick makes a great

490
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: point that there's so much of this has been delayed

491
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: and pushed down the line that Democrats have almost entirely

492
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: lost momentum on a lot of issues that were broadly

493
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: popular and have had the ability to move forward. But

494
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: talking to Joe Manchin is never a bad idea, for

495
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: better or for worse. He is an individual who loves

496
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: to deal. He is willing to put together sometimes overly complex,

497
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: uh grand bargains. And I think there's opportunity here with

498
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: brainerd to to not just affect FED policy, but also

499
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: to play a role in maybe mediating some of this

500
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: build back better negotiation and giving that on one side

501
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: for less of the left arguments on build back better.

502
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of ways this discussion can go,

503
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: but it's important to start having it now. There's like

504
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: a massive opportunity for a deal here though, isn't there

505
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: as we were talking about with Peggy Ricky, give Layo

506
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: Brain of the supervisory role and gives you a chance

507
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: to keep j Powell in the job if that's who

508
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is comfortable with Republicans prefer Isn't that the

509
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: way to get home? Absolutely? And he's got two other

510
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: seats to play with, you know, so he can add diversity,

511
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: he can do some of the things, you know, with

512
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: with broadening out the role of the people who are

513
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: serving on the FED. So I mean this is really

514
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: a win waiting for him to grasp and and say, hey,

515
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: this is my leadership, this is my imprint. As you say,

516
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: he may never get a Supreme Court appointment, but this

517
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: is an opportunity that he can actually talk to the economy,

518
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: the markets and say I've done the right thing as present.

519
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: Let's move on. We've got other agenda items. Let's not

520
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: get this in a way of you know, other more

521
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: important things. Frankly, something familiar about this conversation. I have

522
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: to ask you both about the House Committee investigating January six,

523
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: because more subpoenas went out today, two more aids to

524
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Yesterday we heard about Bernie Carrick, we heard

525
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: about Michael Flynn. Today, the former White House Press Secretary

526
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: Kaylee mcininney, along with Stephen Miller, senior visor. We're getting

527
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: higher up in the chain here, Rick Davis, and I

528
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: know that you've been you've been feeling a little bit

529
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: of an itch here. That's something big could be coming. Yeah.

530
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: I don't think that the January six Commission is doing

531
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: this because they just want to cause trouble for the

532
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: Trump organization, which they are doing. I mean that's the

533
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: partly to them, the secondary benefit of doing it. But

534
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: I think they're actually on track to try and paint

535
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: a picture that has a lot more to do with

536
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: trying to obstruct the transfer of power, uh, and especially

537
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: that day, explain a little bit what was behind the

538
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: motivations for the attack on the Capitol and I and

539
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: this is just really going to be UH interesting story

540
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: when they piece it all together. And in the meantime,

541
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: you know, they get these distractions, you know, by issuing

542
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: these subpoenas with all kinds of good indications of where

543
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: they're headed by by what's in the subpoena. These are

544
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: not just broad subpoenas that aren't aren't very interesting. These

545
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 1: are like, we know where you were the day this happened,

546
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: and we want to know who you were talking to.

547
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: And they already have material from people who these who

548
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: had maybe gotten emails from these individuals that they want

549
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: to now get into that individual's email addresses. Max Steve

550
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: Bannon is still laughing at his subpoena. How many of

551
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: these names will actually be compelled to talk? Well, that's

552
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: the challenges we can move as high up to chain

553
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: as as the Commission wants. UH. Subpoenas without enforcement are

554
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: merely suggestion and This creates a real problem not just

555
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: for the Committee but for the Attorney General on how

556
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: do you proceed with what will almost certainly be a

557
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: series of very theatrical, very performative obstructions that will be

558
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: we used to drive fundraising and drive media visibility, UH

559
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: and really take advantage of the fact that Democrats seem

560
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: very hesitant to put the hammer down and enforce these

561
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: subpoenas to the full extent that they could. Well, how

562
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: about criminal contempt though, Max, I mean, not everybody Steve

563
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: Bannon is going to get to you know, make a

564
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: big show out of it. I can't imagine that Kaylee

565
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: mckinnanny wants to go to jail right now anymore than

566
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: Stephen Miller does. No, it's likely that none of them

567
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: will sometimes unfortunately for acts of just brazen contempt like

568
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon did. But quite honestly, if you look back

569
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: to when Corey Lewandowski testified before Congress, even when these

570
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: individuals come and quote unquote cooperate, UH, Lewandowski essentially spent

571
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: his time making a mockery of the committee, UH, barely

572
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: cooperating to the legal minimum required, and it created a

573
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: circus that didn't help Democrats at all in their fact finding.

574
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: And I think that that's the challenge is how do

575
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: you bring these individuals forward in a way that is

576
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: actually constructive to any kind of fact finding? Rick Davis,

577
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: how important is it for the commission's findings to be

578
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: out before the midterm elections? Well? I absolutely. I mean

579
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: if this doesn't happen until after the midterm elections, what's

580
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: the point of having a commission? Um And I don't

581
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: mean that because I would think it should impact the elections,

582
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: But but like, does it really need to take two

583
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: years to really go through all this material? I mean,

584
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: you know, look, I mean to some degree, they can

585
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: get the emails that Steve Bannon sent. They don't need

586
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: to have the sender. They can have the recipients. And

587
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: they know who he senting emails too, so they're gonna

588
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: have a lot of the stuff that he actually sent,

589
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: they just don't have his computer sending them. And I

590
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: think that you make a really good point, Max, be

591
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: careful with the Trump crowd. Do you do not respect

592
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: the process, they don't respect the legalities. They will make

593
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: a mockery of your process, especially if you open it

594
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: up to public viewing. So I think the Democrats need

595
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: to get this work done, and need to get it

596
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: done quickly. They need to make a conclusion, uh and

597
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: and and then act upon the conclusion. If there's nothing

598
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: to conclude, then move on. This will become a burden

599
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: to that commission and to Congress if it's not done.

600
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: How important are the findings? I'll ask you both this

601
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: to wrap up this hour. How important are the findings

602
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: of this commission for a potential future speaker? McCarthy Max Burns, Well,

603
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: I think the findings you're on the Republican side, you're

604
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: noticing just the complete lockstep rejection of even the legitimacy

605
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: of the committee itself. So I can his potential promised

606
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: to hold the gavel ride on any of this? Not

607
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: among Republicans. I think he's proven his chops for for

608
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: making a mockery of the initial selection process, and he's

609
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: been very clear that it's just not a legitimate thing

610
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: in Republican eyes, which is what Republicans want him to say.

611
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: How much of a factor is it Rick for for

612
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: his potential future holding the gavel? I don't think it

613
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: matters to him, but it could impact significantly Donald Trump's

614
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: plans to run for president. Rick Davis, Max Burns. Fascinating

615
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: conversation as always, This is why we always have the

616
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: panel on, sound on, and of course the voices from

617
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: Washington making decisions that impact your life. Will meet you

618
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: back here again tomorrow. I'm the fastest hour in politics.

619
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg