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Speaker 1: Hey, listeners, Just a quick note about this episode. Some

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Speaker 1: of the audio is slightly distorted here and there. You'll

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Speaker 1: hear some crackling. It's not terribly excessive, but it is

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Speaker 1: there enough that you notice, so we just want to

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Speaker 1: apologize for that. Hopefully it's not too disruptive to your

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Speaker 1: listening experience, and we hope you enjoy the episode. On

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Speaker 1: the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef invest

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Beck del Cast, Jamie Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: it's getting dark. Oh no, we have to get you

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Speaker 1: out of here. We have to get you out of

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Speaker 1: this podcast because if you stay, get me out of

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Speaker 1: your you're gonna turn into a pig and maybe also

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Speaker 1: a spirit. So ship is it a metaphor for something? Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, too late, now you have to get a job.

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Speaker 1: Is it's probably capitalism? It's always capitalism, the environment or

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Speaker 1: coming of age? Oh no, I'm a pig, like like

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Speaker 1: um me eating uh smart ones? As we record, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, slow down, you're smart ones slower. I think

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Speaker 1: that was an incredible. That was a very I thought

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Speaker 1: you were going to make me hold my breath is

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Speaker 1: what I thought was going to happen. Oh, but also

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Speaker 1: that would have be impossible to pass the bucktele test

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Speaker 1: because I would be unable to speak. That's true. So

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Speaker 1: my version was amazing. Ten out of ten. No notes, no, no,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Welcome to the bucktele Cast. By the way, indeed,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: and this is our podcast where we take a look

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Speaker 1: at your favorite movies in the whole wide world using

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Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. And today kick off, I guess

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Speaker 1: a unit that kind of makes it sound like this

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Speaker 1: podcast to school. I don't love that, but a a

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Speaker 1: unit of films that has been requested for years and

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Speaker 1: years and years, and the time is now they're all finally,

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Speaker 1: at least in the US, they are all streaming in

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Speaker 1: a pretty accessible way, which is what we were waiting

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Speaker 1: for for a long time, and then we just kind

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Speaker 1: of waited another year for fun. Uh. But you needed

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Speaker 1: to cover Shrek to priorities. Look, I mean, with with

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Speaker 1: all due respect, there were some animated stories that needed

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Speaker 1: to be looked at and and by that I mean

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Speaker 1: in Shrek two and only Shrek two. Um. But yes,

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Speaker 1: we were starting our Miyazaki month and we're starting with

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Speaker 1: his Oscar winning film It's True, which I didn't really Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into there's so much it's spirited away day.

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Speaker 1: It is on the Besel Cast. Yes it is. Oh wait,

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Speaker 1: we didn't say what the Bechdel Test was. I guess

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Speaker 1: we should say that. We usually say that what is it?

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Speaker 1: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,

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Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test. There are many versions

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Speaker 1: of it. Ours is this Two people of a marginalized

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Speaker 1: gender with names have to speak to each other, and

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Speaker 1: their conversation has to be about something other than a man,

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Speaker 1: and ideally it's a narratively meaningful conversation. Yes, which in

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Speaker 1: Miyazaki canon is not usually not a problem. Too hard

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Speaker 1: at all. So very excited for today's episode. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to Okay, let's bring in our guests and then

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Speaker 1: I have a really pressing question. An amazing guest today,

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Speaker 1: We absolutely do. She's a writer, translator, host and producer

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Speaker 1: of Sparkle Side Chats podcast. It's Ayumi Shinozaki, Hello, welcome.

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Speaker 1: I was holding my breath waiting to be introduced. Wow,

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Speaker 1: well you could finally breathe. Yes, it's wild because we

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Speaker 1: couldn't see you from the beginning of the recording, and

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Speaker 1: then we heard it a sharp exhale, and then you appeared.

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Speaker 1: It's very excited to be here. Thank you for being here.

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Speaker 1: We're so excited to kick things off with a spirited

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Speaker 1: away episode with you. This is definitely an extremely American statement. However,

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Speaker 1: immediately the second Lynn began speaking. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I remembered this from the first time I had seen

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Speaker 1: this movie, but the moment Lynn began speaking, I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: Megara Hercules, Disney's Hercules. It's all I mean I was.

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Speaker 1: I was a big Hercules head. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: that would fare very well on this show at all,

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Speaker 1: but I really loved it when I was tiny and

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Speaker 1: um her voice unmistakable, Yes, definitely, yes, I do think that. Um.

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Speaker 1: One thing that's really interest thing about this movie in

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Speaker 1: terms of, you know, why it's so well done, or

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Speaker 1: like why it's so popular in the s S. Because

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Speaker 1: it was the first one that was localized by Disney

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Speaker 1: in particular because before that there were different other studios

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Speaker 1: doing it, like sometimes it wasn't very successful. Um toto

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Speaker 1: did I think the original total did? Okay? I think

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Speaker 1: I remember watching that one in English, but this was

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Speaker 1: the first Disney one. I think that you can definitely

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Speaker 1: hear it in the localization makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was the whole adaptation process I watched. I meane

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Speaker 1: it was a heavily, heavily disneyfied look at the adaptation process.

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Speaker 1: But it was interesting. I've never sort of seen that

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Speaker 1: process done before so closely with the with the filmmaker too.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's get into it, and uh, what's your

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Speaker 1: history and relationship with Spirited Away? Um? Yeah, So I

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Speaker 1: guess my history with this movie is really connected to

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Speaker 1: my history with Ghibili in general, which, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: for anyone who has no idea who I am. Um,

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Speaker 1: I am Japanese and white. Um. And my my father,

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Speaker 1: who is a white American, he actually was like really

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Speaker 1: really into movies, and so he got into Ghibli movies

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, like through his best friend who was

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Speaker 1: a Japanese American and they they used to basically do

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Speaker 1: fan dubbing of the movies for their friends because it

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Speaker 1: was just so inaccessible. Yeah, so, um, hold on, I

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Speaker 1: actually did I I am both my parents to get

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Speaker 1: at their their history of Gibilie before they got married.

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Speaker 1: But um, yeah, so what he told me was, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they really went line by line and translated.

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Speaker 1: They did Nashka, they did um The Castle of Kaiostro,

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Speaker 1: which is a loop on the third movie but was

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Speaker 1: also directed by Miyazaki, then Lapida, and then um also Across,

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Speaker 1: which is not Ghibli but is a very big, like

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Speaker 1: sci fi Japanese movie. But um, definitely, Like I was

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Speaker 1: always closer to my father in the first place, but like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to movies, and especially Jibli movies,

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Speaker 1: I was always like watching them with this idea of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, these are some of the best, you know

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Speaker 1: movies out there, and like they were kind of the

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Speaker 1: way to kind of understand that like animation was a

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Speaker 1: genre and you know, like just because something is animated

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's like less of a movie than a

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Speaker 1: live action one. Um. But yes, since you know, in

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Speaker 1: the you know, lady eighties and early nineties, a lot

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Speaker 1: of more kid friendly Jubilee movies had come out, So

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Speaker 1: those were the ones I definitely watched more, you know,

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Speaker 1: Total and Kiki slivery service. But it wasn't until like

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Speaker 1: thinking about my relationship to this movie that I realized

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Speaker 1: how perfect this movie was for me. Because this movie

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Speaker 1: came out in um well, originally came out in two

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Speaker 1: thousan one in Japan, but I believe it came out

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Speaker 1: in two two in the US in its localized version,

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Speaker 1: and that's where I grew up. And in two thousand one, I,

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Speaker 1: um I was ten years old, so at the same

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Speaker 1: age as Hito was, and then um I had moved

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Speaker 1: to uh well, I moved within New York City, but

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Speaker 1: I had a pretty major move, and um yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was just like this, uh this really interesting movie for me.

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Speaker 1: And then the other thing is that this movie is

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Speaker 1: very very based in like traditional Japanese folklore, which I

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Speaker 1: never really had a relationship grow with growing up because

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Speaker 1: my mother is in like this neo Buddhist group. For me,

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Speaker 1: I call it a cult. They don't call it a cult,

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Speaker 1: but whatever, that's neither he nor there. But the point

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Speaker 1: is there very much they reject those like old ways

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Speaker 1: and so on. So I really didn't have a relationship

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Speaker 1: with those. So this was like me learning a lot about,

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Speaker 1: you know, my own background in a way. So I

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Speaker 1: was so obsessed with it. Um I was obsessed with

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Speaker 1: how it looked. I was obsessed with the idea of

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Speaker 1: like going to another world and getting a dragon boyfriend

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Speaker 1: and all that so relatable. Very Jamie, what about your history? Um?

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Speaker 1: I had seen this movie once before. I didn't grow up.

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Speaker 1: I wish I had grown up in a household that

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Speaker 1: was more. Um I guess active about getting me Yazaki

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Speaker 1: movies because I only saw I think two growing up.

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Speaker 1: I saw Kiki Delivery Service and spirited away both at

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Speaker 1: my friend's house. Shout out, Samantha, Honeywell, um at least

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Speaker 1: my recollection of it. Growing up, it was like there

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Speaker 1: would be one kid that would have the Miyazaki movies.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't like they should have been in every

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Speaker 1: household the way that there were five, you know whatever.

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Speaker 1: My my parents were just like very very much and

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Speaker 1: this isn't this is the most parents. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: a hard life. But they would just be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go see the Disney one. We're gonna see

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Speaker 1: Dana Carvey, Master of Disguise because for some reason I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to see that. Other than that we would

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Speaker 1: just go see the Disney movie. And but I wish

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Speaker 1: that I had seen everything that was available younger. But

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Speaker 1: I remember being so fixated on Kiki, like Kiki's Delivery

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Speaker 1: Service was it. I loved it so much. I really

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Speaker 1: liked Spirited Away. And I also vaguely remember thinking like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the child's like equivalent of this,

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Speaker 1: but I'm like this might be a little over my

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Speaker 1: head when I was and I was a kid, because

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Speaker 1: it's so beautiful and it's this amazing adventure. And I

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Speaker 1: remember being scared of no Face and then also being

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Speaker 1: amazed when she was nice to no Face because that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen in movies the villain falls off a cliff

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Speaker 1: at the end of a movie, but that like this,

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Speaker 1: this movie is like so I don't know, I mean

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Speaker 1: I had, I hadn't ever watched it um as an adult,

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Speaker 1: and so preparing for this episode was so wild. There's

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Speaker 1: just there's so much, it's such it I it's no

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Speaker 1: longer over my head, although there's there's so much to

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Speaker 1: talk about because it's because it's about capitalism and we

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Speaker 1: ever heard of as adult have heard of her. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I I really enjoyed prepping for this episode and

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Speaker 1: just learning more about Miyazaki in general. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: much about Um. I only knew kind of the broad

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Speaker 1: strokes of his background, and so it was really cool

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Speaker 1: learning about his background and his politics and and I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited to talk about this, Caitlin, what's your history

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Speaker 1: was Spirited Away? I did not have one. I had

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Speaker 1: not seen it until prepping for this episode. I've watched

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Speaker 1: it three times now because there's a lot to digest.

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Speaker 1: It's a heady kids film. It really is if you're

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Speaker 1: operating at a Shrek level, which I was and still am. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we kind of come in at the Shreky end point,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes you gotta kind of level up, right. So

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Speaker 1: I grew up with Totro. That was my absolute ship.

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Speaker 1: But that was the only Miyazaki movie I saw until

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Speaker 1: I think a couple of years ago when I saw kikiS,

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Speaker 1: And then it was only within the past week that

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Speaker 1: I watched Spirited Away. And now I really want to

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Speaker 1: like make it a point to get through the entire

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Speaker 1: uba of Miyazaki. But Um, I'm still working my way

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Speaker 1: through it. I was not expecting Spirited Away to be

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Speaker 1: so wild because scary, it's scary. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: like frightening imagery. There's a lot of just like wild

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Speaker 1: stuff that happens. I mean, it's a children's movie set

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Speaker 1: in like a horny bath house for spirits. Like it's

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Speaker 1: just wild. So I was kind of expecting something more

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Speaker 1: along the line of I mean, obviously, like there are

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Speaker 1: elements of you know, fantasy, and in both Toto and

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Speaker 1: kikiS delivery service, so I was expecting it to be

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Speaker 1: like that but still kind of tame like those movies are,

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Speaker 1: and then Spirited Away is just like, oh um, so

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a wild ride for me. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to discuss and this is one of

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Speaker 1: those episodes where like my notes make no sense and

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Speaker 1: I it's mostly just like non binary icons. The Footballs

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Speaker 1: is this movie about capitalism and environmentalism question mark Like

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Speaker 1: it's just like, well, yeah, gold coins and rivers um.

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Speaker 1: But it's so I mean, it's like, that's so incredible

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Speaker 1: for for I mean, for any movie to like address

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Speaker 1: either of those topics well or thoughtfully, much less a

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Speaker 1: movie that is like very accessible and like understanding of

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Speaker 1: kids too. It's just this movie blew my mind. I

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Speaker 1: really really love it. Yes, So with that in mind,

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Speaker 1: should I do the recap? Yes? Yes, Okay. I do

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Speaker 1: feel like I left out some details of the story

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Speaker 1: in the interest of brevity, because this movie it was

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Speaker 1: difficult to concisely recap, because again, there are so many

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Speaker 1: things that happened. There's a lot of details. But I

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Speaker 1: did my best. Okay. So we meet to Hero, a

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Speaker 1: ten year old girl who is in the car with

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Speaker 1: her mom and dad and they are all headed to

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Speaker 1: the new house they're moving into. On the way, they

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Speaker 1: come upon this odd building with a long, dark tunnel

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Speaker 1: and they decide to walk through it, and on the

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Speaker 1: other side they find this abandoned the park, and despite

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Speaker 1: to Hero's protests, they all walk through the tunnel go

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Speaker 1: into the park, and her parents find this food vendor

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Speaker 1: and start chowing down on a ton of food right

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Speaker 1: away they I thought it was like I had to

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Speaker 1: there's I don't know. I mean, obviously was not picking

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Speaker 1: up on this as a child, but like right away

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Speaker 1: the script is referencing like contemporary Japanese history that I

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Speaker 1: had to keep pausing and being like wait, what where

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Speaker 1: I think it's to hero's father when they first get

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Speaker 1: to the um abandoned theme park. He like mentions stock

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Speaker 1: crash like an economic crash, and like contextualizes why the

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Speaker 1: park was abandoned. And it's done so quickly and so easily,

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Speaker 1: Like I just it's so well done. It's so cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: even like the very very beginning, like the opening shot

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Speaker 1: of the movie, like thinking about it, I mean they

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Speaker 1: have her read over what the card is, but like

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Speaker 1: you open with the shot of the bouquet of flowers

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Speaker 1: and this card from Tokito's friends, you know, saying like

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Speaker 1: I'll miss you and all of that, and it's just

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Speaker 1: like the way that it just doesn't hesitate to just

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Speaker 1: get you right into the story. So it just it's

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Speaker 1: really great. There's so much that happens, and it's very

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Speaker 1: it doesn't stop to have to like explain everything in

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Speaker 1: you know, amazing detail or whatever. And as and as

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Speaker 1: a group that just did the Door of the Explorer movie.

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Speaker 1: Not all movies are like that. A lot of movies

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Speaker 1: it's part of the form to stop and tell you

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Speaker 1: what you're watching, right, Okay, So her parents are eating

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Speaker 1: all of this food, and to Hero wanders off and

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Speaker 1: she sees this bath house and she's like, wow, I

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Speaker 1: wonder if I'm going to end up in there for

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Speaker 1: the next several weeks question Mark Unclaire. Then she bumps

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Speaker 1: into another kid who says, you shouldn't be here. You

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Speaker 1: need to leave before it gets dark, and she's like,

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Speaker 1: what was that all about? But she runs back to

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Speaker 1: her parents, and while she's doing that, the park seems

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Speaker 1: to becoming alive and is occupied by spirits. So then

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Speaker 1: she finds her parents, who have turned into pigs. So scary, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how like I that's one moment that and no face.

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Speaker 1: I remember the two moments that I was like, like,

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Speaker 1: the idea of leaving your parents you come back in

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Speaker 1: their pigs? Yep, still scary. So she starts freaking out

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Speaker 1: and she tries to leave, but the way they came

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Speaker 1: in is now under water. Then she watches a bunch

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Speaker 1: of spirits disembark a fairy and head into the bath house.

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Speaker 1: And then that kid, Haku, finds her again and he

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Speaker 1: wants to help to Hero find her parents and leave.

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Speaker 1: So Haku tries to sneak to Hero into the bath house,

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Speaker 1: but she is discovered by all of the creatures and

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Speaker 1: and spirits as being a human because she has to

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Speaker 1: just it's so good the whole Like I really like

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Speaker 1: whenever a writer finds something that, like, you just know,

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Speaker 1: kids were super receptive to seeing it in theaters, like

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Speaker 1: being asked to hold your breath and like that whole thing,

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Speaker 1: Like it just I don't know. I was doing it

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Speaker 1: as I was watching it, and I'm old, but like

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Speaker 1: as a kid, you're like, oh, that's such a smart

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Speaker 1: thing to do as a writer, because there's no kid

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Speaker 1: watching that movie who's not going to try to do

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Speaker 1: the same thing and also probably not make it. It's

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Speaker 1: so good. So she's discovered as being a human. So

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Speaker 1: they have to run away, and Hawku tells her that

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Speaker 1: if she wants to help her parents, she has to

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Speaker 1: go to the boiler room and ask Kamagi for a job,

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Speaker 1: and if she doesn't get a job, you Boba, the

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Speaker 1: witch who runs the bath house, will turn to hero

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Speaker 1: into an animal. So we're like, Okay, the steaks are

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Speaker 1: high and it's like boiler roum, what is this Titanic? Okay,

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Speaker 1: that was the Titanic reference I was able to find. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this movie does have a small connection to Titanic. I

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Speaker 1: suppose technically speaking, yes, I wonder if we have the

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Speaker 1: same fact, would you like to share yours? Yeah, it's um.

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Speaker 1: So this movie was the top grossing movie in Japan

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Speaker 1: until uh yeah, in late was usurped by the neat

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Speaker 1: Demon Slayer movie, which is whatever, but not for me.

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Speaker 1: But it's fine. Um but yeah, so it went for

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Speaker 1: not almost yeah, nineteen years it was the top movie

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Speaker 1: in Japan, and before that that was Titanic. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: have the same fact. Yes, yes, Titanic had a brief rain,

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Speaker 1: but it had to end. Okay. So Camagi, the boiler

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Speaker 1: room man turns out to be a guy with six

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Speaker 1: arms and all these little balls of soot work for him,

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Speaker 1: and Camachi does not want to help to Hero at first,

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Speaker 1: but then he warms up to her and tells her

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Speaker 1: that she'll have to make a deal with you Baba

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Speaker 1: if she wants to work at the bath house. So

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Speaker 1: then this woman named Lynn takes to Hero to see

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Speaker 1: you Baba, and along the way we get a lot

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Speaker 1: of visuals of the bath house. We see some spirits

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Speaker 1: enjoying themselves, et cetera. Lynn appears to be kind of

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Speaker 1: like the head of the cleaning women, and she's she's

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Speaker 1: like the head of cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yes. So then

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Speaker 1: Hiro finally meets you Baba, who has a baby, a

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Speaker 1: large baby, but does any baby A big old baby,

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Speaker 1: A huge baby in the English dub voiced by Tommy

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Speaker 1: Pickles expert bay b Who is that Tara Strong? Tara Strong? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: she's like an iconic. I mean she's been she's she's

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Speaker 1: Bubbles from Powerpuff Girls. I can go on about. She's

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Speaker 1: like an animation legends. Great. I think she's like probably

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Speaker 1: I would say maybe the top most like famous female

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Speaker 1: voice actress in the US if I had to pick someone,

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Speaker 1: got it. I don't know my voice actors. I guess okay,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, it's like, yeah, I was just I was

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Speaker 1: delighted to find out that she was big baby. She's

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Speaker 1: big baby. You Babba also has a few little minions,

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Speaker 1: including a trio of green heads that bounce around. She

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Speaker 1: also has a crow that looks like her, or like

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Speaker 1: a bird of some kind that looks a lot like her.

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Speaker 1: So you Babba makes to Hero sign an employment contract,

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Speaker 1: and in so doing takes away to Hero's name and

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Speaker 1: says that her name is now sen for the sake

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Speaker 1: of this recap, though, I'm going to keep calling her

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Speaker 1: to Hero. It's what she'd want, It's exactly so. Then

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Speaker 1: Haku returns to set to Hero up with a job,

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Speaker 1: but he's acting cold and distant now for some reason,

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Speaker 1: she gets assigned to be Lynn's assistant, and Hero continues

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Speaker 1: to have a difficult time adjusting and processing all this

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Speaker 1: wild stuff that's going on due to being thrust into

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Speaker 1: child labor. Because because you're trying to save your parents

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Speaker 1: who are now pigs, you know, they're like, the only

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Speaker 1: way to save your parents is child labor. I was like, jeezy,

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Speaker 1: but this is all going somewhere, so don't worry. So

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Speaker 1: then Haku, who is nice and warm again, takes chikiro

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Speaker 1: to see her parents at the pig Pen, and Haku

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Speaker 1: tells her that he can't remember his real name, and

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Speaker 1: you Baba controls I think, like all of the staff

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Speaker 1: of the bathhouse by stealing their names. Then she sees

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Speaker 1: Ku flying through the air because he can turn into

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Speaker 1: a dragon. He's so crushable that Haku, yes, like and

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Speaker 1: I will get plat but like, I appreciate how Yazaki

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Speaker 1: generally doesn't like push romantic narratives, particularly on children, which

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Speaker 1: a stunning number of children's movies cannot say for some reason.

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Speaker 1: But if if your tend watching that movie, you can

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Speaker 1: see what you want to see. You can see a

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Speaker 1: dragon boyfriend in the distance. You can see a dragon

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Speaker 1: friend in the distance. You know, sure, I have the beholder. Yeah, personally,

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Speaker 1: I saw a dragon boyfriend. I saw a dragon friend.

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Speaker 1: And it could just be because I'm watching this for

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Speaker 1: the first time as a thirty five year old and

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Speaker 1: not thinking about child romances. But I think that that's

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Speaker 1: actually really healthy. If you yeah, I would be concerned

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Speaker 1: if I would maybe be worried if he saw a

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Speaker 1: dragon boyfriend. Okay. Also, Chahiro occasionally passes this spirit who

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Speaker 1: we will come to know as No Face. Um, but

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Speaker 1: we don't fully meet No Face yet. So Chahiro starts

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Speaker 1: working in the bath house and after a while she

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00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: lets No Face in, who has just again kind of

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Speaker 1: been lurking around outside. Chahiro and Lynn have to clean

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Speaker 1: this really big tub, and No Face helps her get

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Speaker 1: this token she needs for the tub. He seems to like,

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Speaker 1: really take a liking to Jahiro. I wrote down embarrassingly,

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Speaker 1: I wrote down, No Face is like meat Loaf and

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Speaker 1: Fight Club. He's just waiting outside, and he's like, some

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Speaker 1: days someone's gonna my day is gonna come and they're

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Speaker 1: gonna let me in. I the similarities end, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, he's like, I don't know why. Now,

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Speaker 1: anytime someone's waiting outside, I'm like, oh, like meat Loaf

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Speaker 1: and fight Club. Um, but that's how associate waiting outside

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Speaker 1: for a long period of time. Well. Also famously, meat

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00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: Loaf and Fight Club communicates by going oh yeah, much

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00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: like no Face. So actually, the similarities don't end there.

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Speaker 1: So meanwhile, a stink spirit shows up at the bath

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Speaker 1: house and needs a bath in the big tub that

404
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: Jihiro and Lynne just cleaned, and everyone is grossed out

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Speaker 1: by the stink spirit, which turns out to not even

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Speaker 1: be a stink spirit. It's a river spirit that just

407
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: had a bunch of trash lodged in it, which to

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00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: Hero figures out and helps get all of the trash out.

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Speaker 1: After that, the reverse spirit leaves behind a small round

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00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: ball I'm not quite sure exactly what it is, it's

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00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: just a little gift plot pellet right, and also leaves

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Speaker 1: behind a bunch of gold, which very much pleases you Baba,

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00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: and you Baba compliments to Hero for doing a good

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00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: job and making her a bunch of money. Now, speaking

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00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: of gold, we learn that No Face, who is still

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00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: just sort of lurking around, seems to be able to

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00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: just conjure gold in his hands, which he uses. And

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Speaker 1: Fight Club could not do that. I think his story

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Speaker 1: would have ended very differently. That would be a very

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00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: different movie. Yeah, we love a conjugal Okay. So No

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00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: Face uses his gold making abilities to lure in a

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00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: frog and then he eats the frog. Then we cut

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00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: to the next day and No Face is just like

424
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: going wild. He's eating a ton of food, he's giving

425
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: away a bunch of gold. Things are going off the rails. Meanwhile,

426
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of what appears to be paper birds are

427
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: chasing Haku in dragon form and he gets badly injured

428
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: and is losing a lot of blood. So Hiro is

429
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: kind of rushing around trying to help him, trying to

430
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: save him. Meanwhile, No Face is eating people like he's

431
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: just things when a little too far in Capitalism Cafeteria. Yeah,

432
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: so Tahiro is still kind of rushing around trying to

433
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: clean up some messes. She bumps into you Boba's baby baby.

434
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: She also bumps into you Baba's twin sister, Zeneba, who

435
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: turns the baby into a mouse and turns the bird

436
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: into a much smaller bird. And Zeneba is there because

437
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: she wants the golden seal that Haku had stolen from her,

438
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: which Hawko later vomits up, so Chihiro decides to return

439
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: it to Zeneba so that Haku will be free of

440
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: its curse and he will get better. Hihiro is an angel.

441
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: She's doing a lot of emotional labor. She's really yeah,

442
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: she's really doing it all. Yeah, I love her. I

443
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: mean there's always the like, you know, women are conditioned

444
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: to apologize too much, and she's taken like that's being

445
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: taken a step further here because she's apologizing for behalf

446
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: of a dragon boyfriend. Right, Yes, yes, that's a very

447
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Japanese thing though, like it's I think like in general

448
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: it's not it's not necessarily as gender. I mean, it

449
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,479
Speaker 1: definitely is in this particular case. But yeah, like you know,

450
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: in Japan, it's like if someone bumps into you, you

451
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: apologize for being in the way. It's the kind of thing.

452
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, I do think that I don't think it's

453
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: as like I didn't read it as that way as much.

454
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: Maybe that's good to know. Yeah, yeah for for me,

455
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,719
Speaker 1: what saw I mean, I I appreciate that context too,

456
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: because I just didn't know I've I was like, well,

457
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: it's she's U. It felt more like a friendship sacrifice, right,

458
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: and like going to apologize to I don't I mean,

459
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why

460
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: when a woman apologizes to another woman. I'm like, well,

461
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: it could be worse. Sure, Okay, So she's about to

462
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: set off to go to Zenibus to apologize, but first

463
00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: Chihiro has to play Kate No Face, who is now

464
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: way bigger, way more monstrous. He's eaten so much food,

465
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: he's eaten several other spirits. Tahiro then feeds him the

466
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: gift from the river spirit, which makes No Face barf

467
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: up everything he's eaten, including the people and that frog

468
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: he barts. He barfs up the capitalism metaphor that he

469
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: was eating, and then Shahiro learns No Face out of

470
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: the bath house, and he returns to his former state

471
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: and accompanies Tahiro, the Mouse and the Little Blackbird on

472
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: their journey to Zaniba's place, they get on a train.

473
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: We get that I think one of the most iconic

474
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: shots of the movie where they're sitting next to each other. Meanwhile,

475
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: back at the bath house, Hakku wakes up feeling all better,

476
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: and Camaji tells him that love broke the spell. So

477
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: again we're like, is this like dragon boyfriend slash girlfriend love?

478
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: Is this platonic love? It's open to interpretation, but love

479
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: broke the spell. So Hako goes to you Baba and

480
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: points out that her baby is gone, and she's like, oh, yeah,

481
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: I guess you're right, and he's like, well, i'll go

482
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: and retrieve your baby if you tear up Jahiro's contract

483
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: and return her and her parents to the human world. Meanwhile,

484
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: Chihiro arrives at Zeneba's, who tells Shahiro that she'll have

485
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: to help her parents and Hako on her own, but

486
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: remembering her past might help with this, especially since Shahiro

487
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: thinks she's met Haku before. Then Zaniba gives her a

488
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: little gift. It's a it's a hair tie, sparkly hair

489
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: tie that I forgot about that detail, and it's a

490
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: nice touch. It's so sweet. Then Haku shows up as

491
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: a dragon, and he flies Chahiro back to the bath house,

492
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: and on the way she remembers meeting Haku before because

493
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: he saved her when she was drowning as a younger kid.

494
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: Because Haku is actually the Khaku River, which no longer

495
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: exists because it's been filled in by apartments. So you

496
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: find out your dragon boyfriend is also your river boyfriend,

497
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: and you're just like you're ten years old. And then

498
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: it also it also does what is what is this trope?

499
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of another like, Okay, Tuck over Lasting, Twilight,

500
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: Spirited Away, an eternal being is like my love interest

501
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: is a teenager or younger, and it's just something it's

502
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: not It's not egregious in this movie because it isn't explicit.

503
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: And again it's like you can very much opt in

504
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: or opt out depending on I guess how old you

505
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: were when you first saw the movie question mark. But

506
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: but I just I mean, that is always an interesting

507
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: trope to see crop up, because I feel like it's

508
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: rarely I mean, these are usually hetero matchups to begin with,

509
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: but but it's rarely the the girl in the equation

510
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: that gets to be an eternal being. It's usually an

511
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: old man who's seventeen, but he's actually five hondo and

512
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: it's like the Peter Pan thing. Yeah. Yeah, Well, so

513
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: she's got a river slash dragon boyfriend and awesome chaherin

514
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: Hucku returned to the bath house where you Baba has

515
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: one final test for chi Hero, which she passes, so

516
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: to Hero is free. She gets her name back. She

517
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: reunites with her parents and they walk back to their car,

518
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,959
Speaker 1: and it seems like this all could have been a dream,

519
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: but there are little hints that the whole thing really happened,

520
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: including we see her sparkly headband. There's like dust and

521
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: debris on the car, because if it's been there for

522
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: a long time, the implication being at all actually happened.

523
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: The hairband proves it happened. That's her how I Beat

524
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 1: Shack moment. We've talked about this moment on the show before.

525
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: I forget. Yeah, yeah, what episode was that? That's very funny.

526
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I know that it's the convention

527
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: where was it a dream or not? It used to

528
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: be a Wizard of Oz, but but then it later

529
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: became the Aaron Carter How I Beat shack, he beat

530
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: shock and his dream was it a dream? Well, he

531
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: woke up and he was wearing Shaquille O'Neil's jersey, so

532
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: it wasn't a dream. He did beat check, sort of

533
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: like how was Rose dreaming at the end of Titanic?

534
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: And some would say, yes, yes she was, she wasn't

535
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: and there's no proof. And then and then I say,

536
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I think it's just as viable and

537
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: option if she was dreaming, but irrefutable proof. You don't

538
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: have a hair tie, you don't have the Shaquille O'Neal jersey. Anyways, anyways,

539
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: let's take a break story. Let's take a quick break,

540
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: and we'll come right back, and we're back. Amy, is

541
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: there anywhere you would like to start anything jumping out

542
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: to you right away? Um? I guess like there's there's

543
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: a lot of contexts. I think it's really interesting for

544
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: this story. Um. Yeah, I think in particular, there's like, again,

545
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: the localization was pretty incredible all things considered, and I

546
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: do think that is again a really really big reason

547
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: why the movie did so well and was so successful

548
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: in English. Um. But I do think that the context

549
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: for this story and why it stands out compared to

550
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: early or ghibli works is really important. So um, the

551
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: I guess the main thing being that, you know, Miyazuki

552
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: has said that he made this movie because he had

553
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: realized he hadn't made a movie for like, uh, for

554
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: young girls yet. Like I would say, kikiS liber service

555
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: kind of is, but that is an adaptation and um

556
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: in this case, like, so what he did, he like

557
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: was interacting I think with like some daughters of his

558
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: friends and realized that like he hadn't made a story

559
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: for them quite yet. Um. So you know, UM, I

560
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: think that's part of why, um, you know, to Hero

561
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: is ten years old. I think that this story and

562
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: the the way that he kind of got the idea

563
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: was reading um comics that were being published at this time.

564
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: The readings that I saw specifically cited um Nakashi Magazine

565
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: and Ribbon Magazine, and these are two of the major

566
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: uh they're like basically three major magazines for young girls

567
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: in terms of comics that published monthly, and um Naco

568
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: she's a big one because that's like where Sailor Moon

569
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: was published in a bunch of stuff like that. And

570
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: so I was looking back at the I went specifically

571
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: to look back at what was being published in you know,

572
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: and two thousand for what he probably was reading basically,

573
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, so you know, luckily, because these

574
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: are really big magazines, it's really easy to get the information,

575
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: and so you know, just looking at some of the stuff, um,

576
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're all like there's you know, other

577
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,959
Speaker 1: magical girls at this time. Um, and uh there's also

578
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: like stories like the UFO Baby, um, which is like

579
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: an alien baby comes from space and like someone has

580
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: to take care of it or whatever. Like, uh, there's

581
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: lots of all kinds of really ridiculous fun things that happened. Um,

582
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of sci fi and fantasy elements in

583
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 1: these stories. But I think that as far as stuff

584
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: that is kind of relevant to spread it away, I

585
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: think one of the major things is, like, you know,

586
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: a lot of these comics for why think, Uh, these

587
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: comics are almost always illustrated and written by women. It's

588
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: like this particular genre of comics for girls in Japan,

589
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: it's very for for you know, decades now, has been

590
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: a very female lead um industry. But um, you know,

591
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: these are stories that are meant to appeal to like

592
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: this exact demographic, so there's often like a little bit

593
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: of romance. Um there is uh to have like characters

594
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: like a hawk like character, right who is like you know,

595
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: like you mentioned like this kind of eternal boyfriend or whatever.

596
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 1: That is not uncommon um, but uh yeah, I think

597
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: that one thing that really stands out in comparison to

598
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: this movie is that a lot of the stories, if

599
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: they have fantasy or sci fi elements, they're definitely more

600
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: inspired by Western things, while Spirited Away, of course, is

601
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: extremely Japanese. So I do think that that is an

602
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,479
Speaker 1: interesting like difference, I guess if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah,

603
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: And I was reading a lot about that context too,

604
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, Miyazaki wanting to create a

605
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: film specifically for ten year old girls, and which I

606
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: found interesting because like several of his movies before that

607
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: are like very appropriate for that specific target demo, because

608
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: like I was watching Toto as a ten year old girl,

609
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: like you know, kikiS delivery services appropriate for a ten

610
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: year old girl, even though that character is a few

611
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: years older. But I mean kids love a few years older.

612
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: That's aspiration. Um. Yeah, that he was like reading these

613
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: comics and felt that they only offered material about like

614
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: girls and their crushes and romances, and he felt that

615
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: that's not what at least like the you know, daughters

616
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: of his friends that he ended up wanting to make

617
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: this movie for what they deer in their hearts. So

618
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: he wanted to make this movie and about a female

619
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: heroine that those girls could look up to. So and

620
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: that's I think one of the other reasons that I

621
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: didn't read the Haku to hero relationship as a romance,

622
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: because he deliberately was like, well, I don't want this

623
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: to be about like crushes and romance, but he gave

624
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: us that shot with the hands at the end, so

625
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, right, But also the movie doesn't center around

626
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: their relationship. It's more about to hero, you know, doing

627
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: child labor. So yeah, yeah, it's definitely her story, which

628
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: is important, um, and he is like a factor of

629
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: the story. But like I think, you know, I definitely

630
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: see it as like something where I think it's like,

631
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: for example, I was trying to think of like how

632
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,240
Speaker 1: they would take the time to make it an explicit romance,

633
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: and like, I guess the thing that would have to

634
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: happen is like something like the kissing, But that really

635
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: seems unlikely to me because like not to say that

636
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: kissing doesn't happen in kids stories or whatever, especially with

637
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 1: like hetero stories, but like kissing is a lot more

638
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: um for me, a lot more adult, a lot more

639
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: sexualized in Japanese culture, especially at this time. Um but

640
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: even today it's still the case. Um. So it's like

641
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: it would be very shocking to go that far. I

642
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: think there would have been issues if they had gone

643
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: that far. And I think that for the most part,

644
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 1: with Miyazuki films, they never actually go through, like fully

645
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: going in a romantic route, even if they kind of

646
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: have a lot of like implied romance and a lot

647
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: of subtext um which is you know, nice for the

648
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: reason like you said, like you can opt in or

649
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: out of whether or not you read it as romantic,

650
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: which I think. I think it's more clear in a

651
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: story like um like Ponio, which comes out later, and

652
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: that's like taking the Little Mermaid story but making the

653
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: characters five. It's very interesting. Um So it's like you

654
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: really can't have like a romance with five year olds

655
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: that last forever exactly, but they they so they changing around.

656
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: But um yeah, I think with this story, like I

657
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: do like that, and I do think that it's it

658
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: is a thing where a lot of kids, especially young

659
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,240
Speaker 1: girls who you know might be interested in voice, would

660
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: uh like appreciate that particular aspect. And yeah, I think

661
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: I definitely am. I don't I know hashtag phrases. Most

662
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: of the most of the kids I know who like

663
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: grew up with this movie also read it as romantic,

664
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. And when you contextualize it to

665
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: where Miyazaki was turning for inspiration and like, what were

666
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: girls you know who were his target audience actually reading

667
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: and you know, pulling from magical girl tropes in a

668
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: way that felt like it's still fit in with who

669
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: he was as a filmmaker. It's like, I don't know,

670
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: I wasn't for the reasons you were describing. I mean,

671
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: I wasn't really bothered by it, because you can read

672
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: it that way or not. It's true to the like

673
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: subculture for young girls that he's pulling from, and the

674
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: story doesn't fall apart if you don't view it romantically.

675
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: The story remains basically the same. And I also, I mean,

676
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: we don't try to get in the habit of handing

677
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: it to men too much, but Miyazaki. I will make

678
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: an exception because just of how I feel like it's

679
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: very rare to see uh male o'tour who we talked

680
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: about on this show all the damn time, and it

681
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: fits very cleanly into that description. But someone who has

682
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: committed to centering women in his work very often, And

683
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: also I mean what you were describing, it sounds like

684
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: over time he was more committed to it, which I

685
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: feel like often with male tours, you see like I'll

686
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: have one female protagonist, so people will leave me alone.

687
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: It might there might be some holes in the story

688
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: and it might not be good, but I did it.

689
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: Uh here's my gone girl or whatever you know, and

690
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: she's gone, but she's not in the movie anyways. But

691
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: I appreciate that, Like Miyazaki, like you're saying, Caitlin like

692
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: centered girls in his work very frequently, but also was like,

693
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: but I can take it further, and I can, you know,

694
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: show this like spiritual growth and like reconciling capitalism and

695
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: the sins of her parents generation. I also loved this

696
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: movie hates boomers. It's like it's fun, Like this movie

697
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: like has in a way that doesn't really single out

698
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: um to heroes. Parents specifically, but it's clear that like

699
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, and then the more that I

700
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: was reading and researching, and I'm curious to talk about

701
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: this as well of just how the parent characters and

702
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: the pigs of capitalism and all that was like reflecting

703
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: on Japan's fairly recent history as well, and I just

704
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, I really enjoyed learning about Miyazaki's personal

705
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: politics through researching this. And we'll continue to talking about

706
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: this as we continue talking about these movies. But his

707
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: movie is pretty consistently center girls and women. Uh, they

708
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: tend to be very anti war. He won an Oscar

709
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: for this movie and didn't show up to the ceremony

710
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: because he was protesting the war in Iraq and America's

711
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: brutal invasion, and like he just really appears to be

712
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: a real one in many regards. Yeah, yeah, And like

713
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: we've been discussing, he has, it seems invested interest in

714
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: exploring the like inner lives of girls and making movie

715
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: that I mean, children of all genders can appreciate, but

716
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: that like girls especially can see themselves reflected in, especially

717
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: because his movies are like applauded for their realism, which

718
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 1: might sound weird because a lot of them are so

719
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: heavy with fantasy. That was a weird way to say that,

720
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: But I think fantasy is really good. I like it's

721
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: like when you're heavy with greg when you're gregnant, but

722
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 1: you're heavy with fantasy. So um. But just like the

723
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: relatable issues that a lot of the girls in his

724
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: movies are dealing with, there are a lot of like

725
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, coming of age stories they're dealing with, just

726
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: like different sources of anxiety in their life. And we

727
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: see how that kind of manifests in the super imaginative

728
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: stories that are told in the movies. And I think

729
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: that's just like such an interesting thing because so many

730
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: male at tours don't have that vested interest and they're

731
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: just like, let's make toxic masculinity the movie five times

732
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: in a row, or even just like a passing curiosity.

733
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: And another thing I mean that I appreciate it is

734
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: to Hero's story speaks to kids of all genders, and

735
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: it's it's I also appreciate that too, because I feel

736
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: like sometimes there's still this kind of convention right now

737
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: in this movie is twenty years old, but there's still

738
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: a convention of you know, taking that like every story

739
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: is about fathers and sons, and then then just being

740
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: like inverting it and being like, Okay, we're gonna put

741
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: a girl at the center of this story, so things

742
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: have to be a little different, and that it doesn't

743
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: like she's a relatable, motivated character who like messes up

744
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: sometimes succeeds other times in ways that make kind of

745
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: a stunning amount of sense in this like nonsense where

746
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: old that she's inhabiting. I really liked um when she

747
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: first meets Hako and she's told, you know, she's being

748
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: told by everyone, don't trust this person. Don't trust this person.

749
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: Don't trust this person, and it was like even unclear

750
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: to me, as if you were. I'm like, who can

751
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: she trust? And like watching her navigate that and sometimes

752
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: take one step in the wrong direction and take a

753
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: few like it just she's just like a very realistically

754
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: characterized kid, and I like that she's you know, rewarded

755
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: for not just taking gold, Like she's like there's a

756
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: dragon dying nearby. I can't I can't with your gold

757
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: right now, you know? Yeah, yeah, she has very clear

758
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: priorities and like, I mean, I do think I was

759
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: thinking about like how like in terms of how she

760
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: moves throughout the story, what amount of it is her

761
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: doing stuff on her own. And like, you know, at

762
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: the very beginning, you know, Hawku is very clear about

763
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: telling her what to do. But once she gets to Camagi,

764
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: you know with that whole thing, um, you know, it's

765
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: up to her to actually convince him. And she doesn't

766
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: convince him to get a job there, but um, she

767
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: is able to you know, have an effect to like

768
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: at least enough of an effect that he like pushes

769
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: her in the right direction, right, um, because it could

770
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: ev all like stopped there if you know he said

771
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: no and she's like, well, okay, I'm screwed. But yeah,

772
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 1: just he's able to keep going and everything. So and

773
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: her her actions there and throughout the movie, but like

774
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: again just kind of from that starting point in the

775
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 1: boiler room, like her choice is there affect the trajectory

776
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 1: of the story because then she like picks up a

777
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: piece of coal and then like throws it in the fire,

778
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 1: and I guess that shows like, oh she is maybe capable.

779
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: And then actually something I found really fascinating about this movie,

780
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: And I think it's so it's like so cool that

781
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: this is clearly or at least the way I interpreted it,

782
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: that the experiences that she goes through in this story

783
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 1: are like manifest stations of her anxiety of like moving

784
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: to a new place and like worrying if people will

785
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: accept her, and like having to reorient everything about her

786
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: life because she has left all of her friends behind

787
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: and everything that was familiar to her and she has

788
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: to like navigate this extremely unfamiliar situation, and like that's

789
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: so much of what happens externally in the movie. So

790
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: I thought that was like just a really cool way

791
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: to like show a character's anxieties manifested in like a visual,

792
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: physical way. Um. But part of that is her meeting

793
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: all these people and like having to just kind of

794
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: get a sense of them, and a lot of the

795
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: first impressions that we as the audience get and that

796
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 1: she gets turned out to be wrong, because, like, for example,

797
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: Comagi seems way scarier and meaner than he actually is,

798
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: and a lot of that is like kind of the

799
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: visual thing where it's like he has these long spider

800
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: like arms, there are six of them, and he starts

801
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: out being really annoyed by her, but then by the

802
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: end of that scene he's like she's my granddaughter. And

803
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: then like, Lynn also seems like just very annoyed by Jahiro,

804
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: and it seems like she's going to be that way

805
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: for the entire movie. And I the first time I

806
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: watched this, I was like, oh, no, is this going

807
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: to be like a needlessly antagonistic relationship between two female characters.

808
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: But it's not, because as soon as Jahiro kind of

809
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: expresses some vulnerability and she's like, I don't feel well

810
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: and she's very clearly overwhelmed by everything that's happening, Lynn

811
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: is like, oh my god, are you okay? Like, and

812
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 1: then she like kind of takes on this caregiver role,

813
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: or at the very least she becomes her like ally

814
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: and mentor. It feels very like big history or that.

815
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: Guess maybe that was like my eat of it as

816
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: a kid, and Lynn's character arc is so interesting to me.

817
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: I feel like revisiting Lynn's character as like a young

818
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: adult under Capitalism, you really feel for Lynn in a

819
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: way that I certainly. I mean, as a kid, you're

820
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: a percent You're like, I am che hero and that

821
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: is my dragon boyfriend and like, but but you know,

822
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: at this stage of my life, I feel like the

823
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: closest analog for for most of us is Lynn, who

824
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 1: is working in a service role in this big capitalistic entity.

825
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: She is well liked but not well treated, and and

826
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: you don't get a ton of information about her backstory,

827
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: but what you do is so like, so I don't know,

828
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: just like the the economy of storytelling is so good

829
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: because there really one insight you it into who she

830
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: is and what she wants. Is like she watches the

831
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: train pass every day and wonders like, when is it

832
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 1: going to be my day to to get on that train?

833
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: And by that she means not working this dead end

834
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: job that I don't like and where I'm not treated

835
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: well and where you know, it becomes her responsibility in

836
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: a way that you know, is it fair? Is it not?

837
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: It's not fair, but I think it's the right thing

838
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: to do that she she takes on to Hero and

839
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: almost sees like it seems like a younger version of

840
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: herself of like, well, I hope that this kid can

841
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 1: get on the train, and then she does and it's nice. Yeah,

842
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: what's interesting is um, I think it's really unclear And

843
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: I think also the voice actress choice in English doesn't

844
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: really help with this but according to like the original story,

845
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: there's like a I mean, this is one of those things.

846
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: There's like so many story notes about this movie. Lynda

847
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 1: is supposed to be fourteen in the original like iteration, yeah,

848
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: I guess that. Yeah, she's giving me a hard thirty two, right.

849
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: I know she sounds she's out like an adult in

850
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: English for sure, and I feel like I definitely got

851
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: that when I was watching it in English before. But

852
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 1: like you know what, in preparation for this podcast, I

853
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: think the first thing I did was I watched the

854
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: full thing in Japanese without like taking any notes or anything,

855
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: and so I feel like there are a few characters

856
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: that have pretty distinct differences, but hers is definitely the

857
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 1: biggest one. So like I think in Japanese, she definitely

858
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: sounds more like an older sister, but like she's also

859
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: like a like the way she carries herself. She uses

860
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: like very like hyper masculine language in a way that

861
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: like she's like trying to I guess, make up for

862
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: the fact that like she is a teenage girl. Um,

863
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting. But yeah, I definitely see

864
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: her as being a very much like a big sister

865
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: to Chito. For that reason. Yeah, I liked their relationships

866
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: so much, and that there was like even moments towards

867
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: the end of the movie where there's even like these

868
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 1: passing moments in this movie where the characters are misjudging

869
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,320
Speaker 1: each other or like not giving Like there's that moment

870
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: that I was like, I think it's Camagi that says

871
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: to Lynn in a way that I thought it was

872
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: a little bit harsh that you know. Lynn was like, oh,

873
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: what broke the spell on Hakku? And Camagi is like,

874
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: love something you've never felt in your life? And I

875
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, holyh it. And I was like, I

876
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: thought you guys were like kind of friends. And he's

877
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: saying that in kind of the same breath where he's like, yeah,

878
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: I've had I know that it's your one dream in

879
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: your life to have a train ticket. I've had one

880
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: for thirty years. Anyways, you've never felt love in your life.

881
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, brutal. I didn't think that was

882
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: very nice to win. And then I was worried that.

883
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that that was it's just like

884
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: again speaking to like how how good this is? Where

885
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: I feel like, especially in kids movies, sometimes I am

886
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: conditioned to think that if there is a kind of

887
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: dialogue spoken by a character that I'm not supposed to hate,

888
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: I interpret their dialogue as the moral compass of the movie,

889
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: because that's how a lot of children's movies are written,

890
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: where you're like, well, I don't know if if fucking

891
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: Lumier says it, it's probably how bad could it be?

892
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: But again, there's like shades of grain and everyone in

893
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: this movie where like, we we like Camagi as a

894
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: character very much at this point, and then he kind

895
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: of like cuts Lynn down in this very I thought,

896
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know why I was, so I

897
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: was like I was scandalized by it, and I was

898
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,760
Speaker 1: worried that. I was like, oh, are we not supposed

899
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: to like Linn anymore? Because I still like her? And

900
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: then in the next scene, Lynn is being her big

901
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: sister self again and she apologizes to Chihiro for calling

902
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: her a dope, which is like, I don't know what

903
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: the translation, but I just was like, what a worried

904
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: to apologize for. Later she's like, sorry, I I said

905
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 1: that when we first met, like you're great and you're

906
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and so that weird offhanded thing from

907
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,720
Speaker 1: Camogi isn't how the movie felt, That's just how Camaji

908
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 1: felt in that moment. For some reason, I'm like, where's

909
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: Kamoji apologized to Lynn? That wasn't very nice? Yeah, I

910
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: noticed a lot um because they had the chance to

911
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: to watch it in both languages. I noticed that there

912
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 1: are some some things where the line read in English

913
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: is like more sarcastic or more rude in some cases

914
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: than in Japanese, where it's like more straightforward or more

915
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: maybe not necessarily like polite. Now I don't remember the

916
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: line read for like that exact thing, but like one

917
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: thing I remember for sure is um. You know, in

918
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: like near the beginning, Um, when when is going to

919
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: Chehito to ask her to like eat the little berry

920
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: from the spirit worlds that she wouldn't disappear. In English,

921
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: he's like, don't worry, you won't turn to a pig,

922
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: like you know, making a joke, but like in jack Nis,

923
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: he's completely serious about that line. So it's really interesting,

924
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: Like there are there are definitely some interesting things where

925
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: like there are kind of added things due to the localization,

926
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: which isn't bad. I think, you know, it's a very

927
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: very good localization and I think again that it's part

928
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: of why it's so successful. Um yeah, that's fascinating. I

929
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: hate to give Disney a lot of credit, but yeah, right,

930
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: especially because like John Lasseter had so much involvement in

931
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: this and you like never pleasant to see him. Yeah,

932
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: because like because of him, um he like they took

933
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: on doing all the other Ghibli movies from before and so,

934
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: um it's kind of interesting to like look back at

935
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: old like older Ghibli movies that have now been dubbed

936
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: by Disney um and see like more familiar. There are a

937
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: a lot of Disney names and so on. But um,

938
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,439
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's good because they're very good

939
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: at local ie thing and they took they did a

940
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: lot of things to like kind of fill in um

941
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: like cultural things that might not be as clear to

942
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: an English speaking audience. Um, Like there are there are

943
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: lines that are completely different because like they're trying to

944
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: like explain something because you know, you can't expect everyone

945
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: to know what like the Radish spirit is or something

946
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: like that. But um oh, the other one that I

947
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: remember was you know when so because like Hito gives

948
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: the first half of that little uh the little ball

949
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: to um hakku and that's when he vomits out the

950
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: seal and the slug. Yeah, and she has to step

951
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: on it, and they like explain the whole thing with

952
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: like putting her forefinger and thumb together, and they don't

953
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: explain that in Japanese. Um, they just do it. But

954
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: because Kamachi's off screen and they're able to like add

955
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: that line in and stuff. So it was like very

956
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: very clever, yeah and helpful. Yeah that I mean, I

957
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: wish I wish I knew more about that process without

958
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: having to watch twenty minutes of John Last that are talking,

959
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 1: because it is so fascinating. Like, yeah, I think, I mean,

960
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 1: I have the Blue Ray in uh in English because

961
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: wow brag, Yeah, but so you can watch it. I

962
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: think the North American Blue Ray has both the English

963
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: and French dub as well as the original Japanese and

964
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: even the French localization is different. It's really interesting. Yeah,

965
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: I mean, and in the Disney dub, I mean you

966
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: we I guess mentioned this right away where I was

967
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: like hercules, but they they really I mean, and usually

968
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: when I say usually when anyone says Disney, it's pejorative,

969
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: but in this one it was kind of it was

970
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: like funny to me, just like how specifically this era

971
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: Disney the dub cast is where literally the voice of

972
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: Lilo is the voice of Hiro, the voice of Max

973
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: goof of a goofy movie is Haku. Like, it's so Disney,

974
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: what about an extremely goofy movie though, Yeah, same guys work.

975
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: The guy who did Cogsworth and Beauty and the Beast

976
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: is Comagi. I mean, the list goes on. It's it's

977
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: a whole lot of a whole lot of um. Anyways,

978
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and come back for more discussion,

979
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: and we're back. I said a few more thoughts on

980
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: to Hero's character before we kind of move into the

981
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: next area. Yeah, I mean one thing that struck me,

982
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 1: I mean is and this is again such a small thing,

983
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: but I like that she is consistently positioned as even

984
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: when she is confused and doesn't know what to do,

985
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: she's always positioned as a strong, resilient character. Like her

986
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: not knowing what's going on or not having the skill

987
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: that she needs yet is never posed as like a

988
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: reason to judge her in a way that sometimes they

989
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: think we're like conditioned to see female characters, especially young

990
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 1: female characters as like helpless and damseled and unable to

991
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 1: get out of their predicament on their own. A lot

992
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 1: of that is to to Disney movies that you know,

993
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: we're working on the same movie or or the like.

994
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: The I guess converse of that is that the right word?

995
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: Why did my brain shut off? Anyway? The inverse? I

996
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: was like, it's not converse. That can't be right the shoe.

997
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: The inverse of that is the precocious you know, ten

998
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: or twelve year old girl that we see all the time,

999
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: where they somehow are geniuses with PhD s and they

1000
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: know everything about all adult things. None of that is

1001
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,919
Speaker 1: is present in two Hero. And on top of that,

1002
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: like she is not, I mean she is. She openly

1003
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: cries at several times in the story in a way

1004
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,959
Speaker 1: that again it is like she's allowed to have these

1005
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: moments of strength and decisiveness. She's allowed to have moments

1006
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 1: where she has no idea what the fun is going on,

1007
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 1: because like you, as the viewer, I have no idea

1008
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: what the funk is going on? And you have moments

1009
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: where she like very understandably in the way that any character,

1010
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: but particularly a ten year old who has just lost

1011
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: her parents to becoming a pig, which also I was like,

1012
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: I wonder how Miyazaki was into animal Farm and the

1013
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: answer is very he was very into animal Farm and

1014
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: it shows. But but that she's allowed these moments of

1015
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: intense emotional vulnerability in a way that doesn't take like

1016
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: it only elevates her character, because I feel like that

1017
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: it just like reminds you, as an adult viewer now

1018
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: like this is a child, and and like, of course

1019
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 1: she's going to cry when confronted, but yet another stranger

1020
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: who she doesn't know if she can trust or not.

1021
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 1: And I liked that she's very much a hero and

1022
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: an aspirational character for kids watching, but in a way

1023
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: that again for the for the genre, and like the

1024
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 1: situation she's in, it feels really realistic of like how

1025
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: a kid would react in that situation. Yeah, can we

1026
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: talk about the first time she cried, because that's like

1027
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: a really I think a big I think one of

1028
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: the visually one of the more iconic parts of the

1029
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: whole movie. But yeah, because like for the first part

1030
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: of her being in the bathhouse, she's like kind of

1031
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: just holding everything in, um, you know, doing what she

1032
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: has to do, and like not really complaining about it

1033
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: or anything, just like being really headstrong because she has

1034
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 1: to be. But then it's like we see that, you know,

1035
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: she's having trouble sleeping, and then how coo, Like while

1036
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 1: she's a while she's in the room with all the

1037
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: other women, he kind of like sneaks and is like, oh,

1038
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: meet me by you know this by the bridge, and

1039
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: she goes, and like they do the whole thing with

1040
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: the parents, and he gives her clothes back because she

1041
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: needs them to go back to the human world, and

1042
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: she and also the cards and she can remember her name,

1043
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: and then he gives her the rice balls um which

1044
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: he says I don't know if they're actually is a

1045
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: spell on them or if he just saying that, but

1046
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: he says like, oh, this will give you your strength back.

1047
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: And I think it's basically the same in Japanese. And

1048
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: that's the first time she cries, and she cries so big,

1049
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: like her eyes well up in her like it's just

1050
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: like her entire eye just like turns into a puddle.

1051
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 1: It's it's definitely an iconic like visual to say the least.

1052
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 1: But I think it's really interesting that like it's when

1053
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 1: she's you know, finally given that chance to be vulnerable

1054
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: and like let it all out that like you can

1055
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: really see that she is has been holding in those

1056
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: tears the whole time. Yeah, and that's what's so great

1057
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: all this movie. And again I haven't watched all of

1058
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 1: Miyazaki's work, but of the ones that I have seen

1059
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: and can speak to his treatment of these characters in

1060
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: showing them being active and making choices but making mistakes,

1061
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: and being vulnerable but having the strength to go on

1062
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: and do what you need to do and just like

1063
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 1: all of these like aspirational and empowering qualities that like

1064
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: young girls can see and admire. That to me is

1065
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,479
Speaker 1: the most like one of the most effective versions of

1066
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: feminism in movies, more so than for example, my favorite

1067
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: example to make fun of is like when in whatever

1068
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: Avengers movie when all of the like seven female superheroes

1069
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: like start walking beside each other and they're like, and

1070
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 1: now it's our turn, and we're gonna have this one

1071
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: moment for twenty seconds in the movie where we're awesome

1072
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: to protect Spider Man, right, Like It's so it's like,

1073
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: truly just treat women like people, like that's all you

1074
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: just described as treating a people character like a person,

1075
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: like the's a complicated person, which, like when I was

1076
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: reading a few different accounts of like people being like

1077
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: it's so cool that your movies are so feminist Muzaki,

1078
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 1: and he was like, I don't know about that. I

1079
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: just want to entertain people and write interesting characters. So yeah,

1080
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 1: like that's all it takes. Yeah, yeah, definitely, Like obviously,

1081
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: I'm really happy that this movie does feature a ten

1082
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: year old girl, but you wouldn't have to change anything

1083
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 1: about the movie if it was about a ten year

1084
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 1: old boy or a ten year old on my dairy child,

1085
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: So like it's yeah, it's it's pretty great, right, Yeah,

1086
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: I love I love to hear so much. Um Also,

1087
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: she saves a boy, she doesn't have to be well

1088
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: I guess. I mean you can make an argument that

1089
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: like he at the beginning like saves her a little

1090
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: bit and like gets her away from immediate danger, but

1091
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: it feels like an exchange of movie I'm cutting it

1092
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: too much, like but like it feels like a friendship exchange.

1093
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: And then because she saves him by going on a

1094
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:24,080
Speaker 1: long journey with her new friends on a train and

1095
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 1: apologizing and all that and you know, feeding him a ball. Yeah,

1096
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: should we should we talk about capitalism? Let's do it

1097
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:39,880
Speaker 1: feel like it was going to come up hit it? Yeah?

1098
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 1: So I again, I don't know. I learned a lot

1099
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: about the end of the twentieth century economy in Japan

1100
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 1: via learning about this movie. I'm sure we all did

1101
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: you you probably do more than we did already. Um,

1102
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: this movie is really interest I mean the way that

1103
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: it gets a really solid criticism of capitalism that it

1104
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: can work for anyone, but also works very specifically for

1105
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 1: Japan at the time this movie came out and works

1106
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: again like both ways is so incredible to me. Where

1107
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 1: it's like, I guess speaking to it in the broad sense,

1108
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: the bath house is this capitalist entity. You know, you

1109
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 1: have your your character at your at the top your

1110
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: you Boba's of the world. Um, she's dressed in a

1111
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: more i think traditionally like Western way. She doesn't interact

1112
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: with the working class like her whole I mean, and

1113
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: it's like to the point where it's like she's known

1114
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: for taking your name, stripping you of your identity, overworking you,

1115
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: and being very, very unfeeling toward anyone who isn't her

1116
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:54,719
Speaker 1: own plight. She's only responsive to people once she finds

1117
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 1: out that they have money, and even then, I mean,

1118
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: I think I think it's a just another like shade

1119
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: of gray that comes up in this movie. Is like

1120
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: she's very like Mr Crabs motivated I would say, by

1121
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: by money. When she finds out that No Face has

1122
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: a ton of money. At first she's thrilled until No

1123
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: Face becomes too unruly and two other and then she's like, Okay,

1124
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: you're actually a monster and you're you're bad. You have

1125
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 1: to get the funk out. And she did essentially one

1126
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: of the different version of the same thing to the

1127
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: Stink Monster when he came in, where it's like, Okay,

1128
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,440
Speaker 1: I'll take your money, but I'm not going to respect

1129
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,720
Speaker 1: you or consider your plight, and just like and and

1130
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: then you know, putting hiro in in in kind of

1131
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: contrast to that, where to Hero, like she doesn't want

1132
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: to financially profit from being trapped here. She just wants

1133
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 1: her family and she wants her basic needs met and

1134
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: she wants her friends to be okay, you know, but

1135
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: she's like put into child lay, I mean, and then

1136
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 1: on the other end, you there's just so many different,

1137
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: like different ways and then with Lynn you have another

1138
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: perspective of like someone who clearly resents the capitalist system

1139
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: but feels stuck there and feels unable to get out,

1140
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: and she's very much a cog in a wheel. And

1141
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 1: then this I'm not quite as sure of. UM, So

1142
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: if anyone knows more, please jump in. But I based

1143
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: on the research I was doing and like reading interviews

1144
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: that were happening at the time of the release of

1145
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: this movie, UM, I thought it was like I learned

1146
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: at least a little from what she heroes parents are

1147
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:41,799
Speaker 1: supposed to resent represent in terms of like the specific

1148
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: moment they appear in where um. And again I didn't

1149
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 1: know this. I mean it was like pretty true in

1150
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 1: the U s as well, But like that in the eighties,

1151
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, there's a huge capitalist fucking boom across extremely

1152
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: industrialized nations. And it sounds like a lot of what

1153
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 1: Zaki was trying to say with the parent characters in

1154
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, them disrespecting the spiritual grounds that they arrived on, consuming, consuming, consuming,

1155
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 1: without any care for whose work they were consuming, who

1156
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 1: was making it, whether we're gonna pay or not. They

1157
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 1: were just sort of like, who cares, it's here, let's

1158
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 1: go let's go nuts, and that as a criticism of

1159
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 1: that generation of middle class, upper middle class and above

1160
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: in Japan, I that is just I mean, I definitely

1161
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 1: didn't know that when I was ten. Now, another thing

1162
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: I thought was cool about to Hero's characters specifically was again,

1163
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 1: and it's her who figures out that the stink spirit

1164
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: is not actually a stink spirit. It's you know, there's

1165
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 1: something else going on. There was like something wedged in

1166
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 1: that spirit's body, and it turns out to be a

1167
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 1: bunch of liketion base sickly right, so we also have

1168
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 1: some like cool environmental themes happening. But um, she figures

1169
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 1: it out to Hero saves the day with that river spirit,

1170
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: and the river spirit leaves behind all of this gold,

1171
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: and you Baba is like, oh my gosh, Chihiro, actually

1172
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 1: you're awesome now, thank you so much. And it's not

1173
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: until that happens that you Baba respects Chihiro in any way.

1174
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 1: And for maybe a different person they'd be like, oh, well,

1175
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,559
Speaker 1: if I can make my boss more money, then I'll

1176
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 1: get more respect, So then I should make it a

1177
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 1: point to try to make my boss more money. Uh.

1178
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,719
Speaker 1: But instead she heroes like every time gold is offered

1179
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 1: to her, She's like, I don't want your fucking gold.

1180
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 1: I'm trying to help out my dragon boys always like

1181
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:52,639
Speaker 1: dragon fleeting nearby. So I thought that was cool and uh,

1182
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: leftist icon Chihiro. Yeah, I think what's really interesting, Um,

1183
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 1: and this is kind of again, like I get really

1184
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 1: present in a lot of Japanese media for girls, is

1185
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 1: that like the fact that she doesn't really care about money,

1186
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 1: it also does feel like a part of her upbringing

1187
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:14,280
Speaker 1: and her privilege that she's never had to worry about money. Yeah,

1188
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: especially the way that like her father talks about you

1189
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:19,120
Speaker 1: know how it's okay they're going to eat all this

1190
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: food because he has credit cards in cash, you know,

1191
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: like no problem. Um. But like, and that definitely does

1192
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 1: sound like something apparent at the time might say, but

1193
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: I do think that, Um it's it's kind of I

1194
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 1: guess I have mixed feelings about her not caring about money, because, um,

1195
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: it definitely is you know a thing where like when

1196
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 1: she refuses to take old from from No Face in

1197
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: that one scene, which because she's trying to go help Haku. Um,

1198
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 1: the one guy was like, Oh, don't worry about her,

1199
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 1: She's just a human. She doesn't know any better. And

1200
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: it does feel like human is a kind of placeholder

1201
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: for child in that way where it's like children don't

1202
01:14:56,240 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: know about money, like they don't know any better. Yeah, yeah,

1203
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 1: it is complicated, which is like, but that's why I'm

1204
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,440
Speaker 1: glad that Lynn is there to like present a sympathetic

1205
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: character that we're rooting for who is stuck in it.

1206
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,880
Speaker 1: And and unfortunately, I feel like we're led to believe

1207
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: that she kind of remains stuck in it. We kind

1208
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: of leave her there. It's not like she got on

1209
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 1: the train unfortunately, which again is like, I don't know.

1210
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 1: I mean, that's an interesting bittersweet. I hope Camogi had

1211
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 1: another ticket. I don't know. I can't believe he told

1212
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:31,520
Speaker 1: her he had another ticket the whole time. That's so mean. Uh, Anyways,

1213
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: team Lynn over here, because you would, you would. You're

1214
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,559
Speaker 1: led to believe I mean that you know, Lynn probably

1215
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,479
Speaker 1: did not grow up with very much if that's a

1216
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: job that she is unable to leave, So you're totally righty,

1217
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 1: I mean, where it you know hiro does? I mean

1218
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 1: she benefits from the privilege of being a child and

1219
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: not having but also she she benefits from being a

1220
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: child who like worrying about money has we're sort of

1221
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 1: it to believe is not a big issue for her

1222
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: because her parents are driving out capitalists who turn into

1223
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: yeah Orwellian uh, you know, Orwellian figures. So so there's yeah,

1224
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 1: there's definitely I appreciate that there's at least foils to that.

1225
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 1: And then especially and then that leads right into the

1226
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: fact that like we're joking about it, but the fact

1227
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:26,719
Speaker 1: that you know, Jahiro is constantly like, I don't want

1228
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: your money. There's a dragon bleeding in the other room.

1229
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: The dragon bleeding in the other room is Haku, who

1230
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,640
Speaker 1: ends up being this, you know, big metaphor for the

1231
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 1: environment because and again, just like another one offline that

1232
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 1: revisiting it now you're like, oh my god, like where

1233
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 1: you know they're they're literally falling out of the sky

1234
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:53,719
Speaker 1: having a very calm conversation, which I love um. And

1235
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: and she's like, she's like you're the river and he's like,

1236
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 1: I am the river. Damn it's true. That's exactly what

1237
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:06,559
Speaker 1: he says. And but then but then she's like, I

1238
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: know that what that river is, it doesn't They filled

1239
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: it in and its apartments now and he's like, oh,

1240
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 1: that must be why I'm not a river anymore, and

1241
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: like just that you know now you're like, oh, you

1242
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: know exactly what Miyazaki is trying to do. And then

1243
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 1: Haku is also utilized as a character as I think,

1244
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 1: I mean, as as I guess I'm kind of yet

1245
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 1: another in into capitalism commentary that's different from Lenz because

1246
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: he is this environmental symbol who ends up in the

1247
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: pocket of capitalism, which um like he is. You Baba's like,

1248
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: uh uh you know he's her what, her assistant, her apprentice,

1249
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: and it sounds like he's again I'm like, I don't

1250
01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 1: know that I feel bad when someone steals from you bomba.

1251
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: People seems like redistribute except for the baby and uh,

1252
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 1: you know, best of luck to the baby. Shout out

1253
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 1: to the baby. The baby was supposed to represent, but

1254
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: it was really big. I actually do think there's something

1255
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: I have. I do have thoughts about um both the

1256
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:27,640
Speaker 1: baby um because so like I mean, you Baba is

1257
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:30,960
Speaker 1: for anyone who is listening for some reason and hasn't

1258
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 1: watched the movie. You Baba is very differently designed from

1259
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 1: all the other characters. She does have like western South dress,

1260
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 1: you as a giant head, and that's part of why

1261
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: she has a giant baby. But she's also like an

1262
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 1: older woman and that of her giant head. Yeah, I

1263
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 1: don't know where um um. But in any case, yeah,

1264
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: like we we don't really know much about like why

1265
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:57,600
Speaker 1: she would be an older woman with this baby, but

1266
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,519
Speaker 1: this baby is huge but also mentally very much a baby.

1267
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 1: And then we later learned that the baby can in

1268
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:07,560
Speaker 1: fact speak perfectly fine and speaks in full sentences. Um.

1269
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 1: And it's like it's like very interesting because it's like

1270
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 1: this is a baby that has been uh for as

1271
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 1: long as we know, like the for its whole life,

1272
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 1: has been trapped in this one room and you know,

1273
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,680
Speaker 1: he's like afraid of going outside. Um, which is like

1274
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 1: kind of almost like the polar opposite to Jigito situation

1275
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:28,679
Speaker 1: to me, where like she's, yeah, she's exploring a whole

1276
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 1: new world. She's facing all these challenges herself, and even

1277
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: if she is afraid, she doesn't let that stop her

1278
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 1: from moving forward. So um, I think it's really interesting.

1279
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 1: And then and I wanted to say um because we

1280
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 1: haven't talked about it yet, but I think the names

1281
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 1: of the characters are very important and um in particular, Like,

1282
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 1: so the big word that's used a lot in this

1283
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 1: story is spirits, which would be coming in Japanese, but

1284
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 1: when it comes to the mythology stuff is not really

1285
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:01,200
Speaker 1: one to one and coming can both spirits and then

1286
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:06,639
Speaker 1: full on gods. So like and in particular, Kohaku's name,

1287
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: his real name is actually different in Japanese. So his

1288
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 1: his name in Japanese is Niki Hayami Khaki and it's

1289
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 1: meant to invoke like the name of a god or

1290
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 1: so the idea is like he was a full on

1291
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:26,680
Speaker 1: god and then like cannot return home because of you know, environmentalism.

1292
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:30,680
Speaker 1: So she's got a dragon boyfriend slash river boyfriend slash

1293
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: god boyfriend, yes, magical girl troups, yes, yes, very much.

1294
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 1: So my boyfriend is god yea, yeah exactly. So it's uh,

1295
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting. Um yeah, it's like it's not really

1296
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 1: like clear, but like you could definitely make that like

1297
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 1: distinction that like he is he was a god before

1298
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,559
Speaker 1: you know all this, And again he's a god that

1299
01:20:55,640 --> 01:21:00,559
Speaker 1: looks twelve years old apparently, So yeah that's fast. I

1300
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 1: had no idea. Yeah, um, but yeah, the names are

1301
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,680
Speaker 1: so interesting to me in general for the movie, if

1302
01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 1: it's okay to talk about it, please yes. So, Like,

1303
01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 1: even the name Tchihito itself, it's like this name was

1304
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: at the time one of the most popular like names,

1305
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 1: Like it's basically like the most not the most average

1306
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:25,240
Speaker 1: name for a ten year old, but pretty average for

1307
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 1: ten year old at this time. UM actually went through

1308
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 1: the data of like name rankings UM in Japanese and

1309
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 1: found that like her name peaked at the number four spots.

1310
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 1: It's not really as big now. I think for the

1311
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: most part, people who name their kids to heto these

1312
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 1: days are specifically naming it after this character. Yeah. Um,

1313
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: but her name basically means like a thousand questions, so

1314
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:54,680
Speaker 1: like she's like like asking a thousand things. So the

1315
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 1: cheat in her name once you take away the second part,

1316
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: it does become send, So send means one thousand in Japanese,

1317
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 1: so that's like very deliberate. And you know, the Japanese

1318
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:08,720
Speaker 1: title of this movie is Santotio Kai Kai so San

1319
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 1: and two Heroes Spiriting Away. Yeah, and the other thing

1320
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting about the way the movie

1321
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 1: looks um like the kind of spirit restaurant area that

1322
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 1: they go to before the bathhouse. Um, I believe it

1323
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: is very inspired by a specific place in I want

1324
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: to say, I can't remember it's Taiwan or China specifically,

1325
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: but there is like an actual place and the food

1326
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: that the parents eat is those are real things you

1327
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 1: can eat, um, which is pretty cool. But um, I

1328
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:41,840
Speaker 1: do think it's interesting that they went outside of Japan

1329
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 1: for those uh for this images, and like all the

1330
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: signs and stuff are super weird. Um. I think my

1331
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 1: favorite one is uh, I was looking at some like

1332
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 1: there's a shot where you know she's first running through

1333
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: and you start to see spirits and there's like lanterns

1334
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 1: that say come here but backwards. Um, so it's like

1335
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,959
Speaker 1: super creepy. Yeah. Yeah. And then the bath house itself.

1336
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 1: I think the first thing is the name of the

1337
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 1: bath house is written backwards and um, you can be

1338
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: um the you and like you baba. For example, it

1339
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:20,599
Speaker 1: means hot water, but for the bath house name, they

1340
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 1: don't use you as in hot water. They use you

1341
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 1: as an oil, which is really interesting. So you see

1342
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:30,760
Speaker 1: that the character for oil everywhere. Um, you Baba's name

1343
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 1: basically just means like hot water lady or how hot

1344
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: her grandmother? I don't know, it's like kind of is

1345
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,880
Speaker 1: not a really direct translation. And then her twin sister,

1346
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: Zenniba Zennise comes from like a public bath, which is interesting,

1347
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: so it's like two different Yeah, OK, because she's a

1348
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:52,840
Speaker 1: twin of the people. Yeah yeah, yeah for sure. Um yeah.

1349
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 1: And then like names like like Kamaji just means pretty

1350
01:23:56,240 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 1: literally boiler old man, like it's very yeah, but yeah,

1351
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 1: those are like I guess for me, like this, like

1352
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,320
Speaker 1: the major names, there is a shot where you can

1353
01:24:06,439 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: see all the names, um where like they're kind of

1354
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 1: turning their their time cards. I guess they'll have their

1355
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 1: names on them, and like you can see they're all

1356
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 1: like super short names that were clearly like taken from

1357
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 1: a longer name. I think that's really cool, um to say,

1358
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:26,560
Speaker 1: like you Bobba stole their original name and replaced it

1359
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:31,080
Speaker 1: with something like simpler. Yeah basically yeah, so it's it's

1360
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 1: pretty cool. It's pretty interesting. So you can assume the

1361
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 1: same thing happened to lenn as well. Um right right,

1362
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 1: her name used to be Caitlin want I I do

1363
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 1: wish we knew a little more about line, but it's

1364
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 1: like we what we do learn, It's like enough for

1365
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 1: the story to to work and work and work. But

1366
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, I want to know. We got

1367
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,640
Speaker 1: to find out what how cou'se deal was, What is

1368
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 1: Linn's deal. I didn't didn't know that this is going

1369
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:05,759
Speaker 1: to radicalize me in favor of working class icon Lynn.

1370
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 1: But she's you know, she's got the union going in

1371
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 1: there now I know it. I know it. Or maybe

1372
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:18,360
Speaker 1: she escaped in that little like circular pedal boat thing.

1373
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 1: I have to say. Um. I wanted to talk about

1374
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 1: the character design, specifically of you Baba and Zaniba, since

1375
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:32,760
Speaker 1: they are identical where they are the only two old

1376
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:38,600
Speaker 1: women in the story, and the character design and I

1377
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 1: guess this is subjective, but it's not the most flattering

1378
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 1: character wo hot take. I mean, maybe some people look

1379
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:50,800
Speaker 1: at you Baba and I was like, wow, what a

1380
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 1: sexy bitch, but and they're right to do so. Well

1381
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:59,639
Speaker 1: maybe maybe where is Zoniba you Baba is, but right

1382
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: like that, I think that any older I mean, there's

1383
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: the only older women in the story, and they're pretty

1384
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:09,479
Speaker 1: aggressively othered and how they appear and how they look.

1385
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:13,679
Speaker 1: And I was worried that like this movie was leaning

1386
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: into villainizing the only old female character we get to know,

1387
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 1: especially because we only Zeneba doesn't show up until maybe

1388
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: like halfway through the movie, or maybe even later than

1389
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: that longer. Yeah, so for a long time, it's just

1390
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 1: this one older female character, and she's the villain, and

1391
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 1: she's designed to be pretty grotesque and scary and all

1392
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:44,200
Speaker 1: this stuff. So I was concerned about the handling of that.

1393
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: And then you meet Zeneba, who is similarly scary and

1394
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:53,639
Speaker 1: aggressive at first, but then she's one of those characters

1395
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,760
Speaker 1: who seems one way at first, and then when we

1396
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: see her again, like when to Hero pay her a

1397
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 1: visit to give back the Golden Steel, suddenly she's this

1398
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: sweet granny, literally granny making scrunch ees on a loom.

1399
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, yes, granny. And then I love how

1400
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 1: she kind of takes in no face too nice. I was.

1401
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:22,920
Speaker 1: I I didn't quite know where to fall there, because

1402
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:25,719
Speaker 1: I did for the vast majority of the movie. Yeah,

1403
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: the only older woman is mothered pretty aggressively in a

1404
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 1: way that like, if you read it from a moralistic standpoint,

1405
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 1: you're like, well, yeah, she's the you know, she is

1406
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:39,360
Speaker 1: the capitalist overlord of the story, but also she's the

1407
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 1: only older woman in the story, and that seems maybe

1408
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 1: a little unfair. And the other thing that I did

1409
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:49,519
Speaker 1: pick up on there, that is something we've talked about

1410
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 1: with animated movies before. It's always like a little ping

1411
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 1: annoyance for me because I work in animation and I'm

1412
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,799
Speaker 1: always like, can we not do this? And it always happens.

1413
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 1: Um is, we have a lot of different like I

1414
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 1: don't know, like the spirits come in all different forms,

1415
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:09,200
Speaker 1: they're all different animals, they're all different, you know, they're

1416
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:13,599
Speaker 1: they're drawn and characterize all very differently, but there's really

1417
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 1: only any sort of like variety in male coded characters.

1418
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: All the women basically look like some version of a

1419
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 1: youngish woman who is a human. And that always bugs me.

1420
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:31,000
Speaker 1: And that's all like, no matter how progressive you find

1421
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:35,680
Speaker 1: an animation, it's always like, well, we don't wanna we

1422
01:28:35,720 --> 01:28:39,320
Speaker 1: don't want to like have a fun mix of body

1423
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 1: types and species in a movie where literally anything cannon

1424
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,559
Speaker 1: does happen. So that was like a little thing that

1425
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:49,880
Speaker 1: I always kind of get frustrated by, the most egregious

1426
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 1: example that I think we've talked about, Caitlin. It's like

1427
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 1: I always think of it as like ghostbuster syndrome where

1428
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 1: all the you know, male coded ghosts are like, well,

1429
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:01,400
Speaker 1: I'm a pile of shit, and then like the woman

1430
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 1: is like, I'm a human woman that's really horny, and

1431
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:09,719
Speaker 1: you're like a super sexy, horny ghost lady. And obviously

1432
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,720
Speaker 1: this is not you know, a sin of that caliber,

1433
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:15,599
Speaker 1: but I did, I did. I was like, man, most

1434
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 1: of the women we meet, with the exception of the

1435
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 1: other older woman villain, they all kind of look like

1436
01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 1: generally attractive, youngish human women. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I

1437
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: mean we haven't really talked about like it's kind of

1438
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 1: hard to talk about diversity in this movie, which is

1439
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 1: EMBOSSI about a bunch of spirits, so not like a

1440
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 1: lot of human characters or anything. But you know, like

1441
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:45,720
Speaker 1: the only time, like the only character who is has

1442
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 1: any sort of other body shape is you know, you

1443
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 1: bab A Zuniba, who again are drawn identically. And then

1444
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,080
Speaker 1: so there's like the really silly thing was like, how

1445
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 1: can you not tell me, apart from your own mother,

1446
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 1: to pull the baby? And it's like, because you guys

1447
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 1: are drawn sati the same um And she's also the

1448
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,479
Speaker 1: only like Zaniba who is supposed to be the nice

1449
01:30:05,479 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 1: old lady is the only character that like actually says

1450
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:11,519
Speaker 1: something fat phobic to Bow like he she comments on

1451
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 1: him being really fat, like you know, a chubby baby.

1452
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:18,800
Speaker 1: And I mean he's he's a giant baby, but he's

1453
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:22,639
Speaker 1: still very baby shaped. I don't know, right, Yeah, he's

1454
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:25,680
Speaker 1: not like a grotesque or anything like, it's not it's

1455
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 1: not he's not like drawn an exaggerated way like to

1456
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 1: look like a very particularly scary baby. He's just like

1457
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:35,639
Speaker 1: a very big, fat baby. But like most babies are fat, right,

1458
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 1: And like, do you guys know what movie we're watching?

1459
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:44,760
Speaker 1: Like yeah, exactly, Um, but yeah, like it's you know,

1460
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:47,200
Speaker 1: there isn't really a lot of like I would it

1461
01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: would be really cool to have more diversity of like

1462
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 1: especially with the female spirits, like how they look. It's

1463
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: like basically there are two types of female spirits. There's

1464
01:30:57,040 --> 01:31:00,680
Speaker 1: the ones with like proportioned heads that are similar to

1465
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 1: humans like Lynn, and then there's the ones that have

1466
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,759
Speaker 1: like very large heads. And that's it. Like that's a

1467
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:10,599
Speaker 1: that's a variety and female characters in this movie. Yeah,

1468
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 1: but the O there's no other particular like and again,

1469
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:16,840
Speaker 1: we only have like basically one human family that we're

1470
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 1: looking at. So there isn't a lot of guests room

1471
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 1: for diversity, but it would have been nice if there

1472
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 1: was a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, I mean, speaking

1473
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 1: to Jahiro's parents, what we do know of them, I

1474
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:34,120
Speaker 1: do at least appreciate that it's like they're both damseled

1475
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 1: by the story, Like it's not one you do get

1476
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 1: that thing that I think we bumb up in movies

1477
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 1: a lot, where it's like the dad is more gregarious

1478
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:46,520
Speaker 1: and likable and like seems to be less of the disciplinary.

1479
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 1: And then Jahiro's mom. Um, It wasn't a huge issue

1480
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 1: for me because they're barely in the movie, but I

1481
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, yeah, he's I guess he's he's kind

1482
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: of like the fun dad. But also her mom goes

1483
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 1: right along. She's it's if anyone's like the come on,

1484
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 1: don't you guys stop it, it's Jahiro. Shahiro is the

1485
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:13,920
Speaker 1: one that's like, we're capitalism and too close to the sun. Yeah,

1486
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:16,400
Speaker 1: because her mom's like, yeah, I'll fucking I'll eat all

1487
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 1: this food, I'll go down this tunnel. I don't give

1488
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 1: a ship. Yeah, you know, their names don't come up

1489
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 1: in the actual text, but they do have names. And

1490
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 1: I think it's really funny because her father's name is Akio,

1491
01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:32,480
Speaker 1: which the kanji for which is a bright husband and

1492
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 1: um and then her mother's name is um Uko, which

1493
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 1: is like the kanji is basically like like what's it called,

1494
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:43,240
Speaker 1: like a calm child, and the child part being like

1495
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 1: that's a that's a factor of you know, Japanese girl's

1496
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:50,760
Speaker 1: names more especially at the time and older generations. In

1497
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:53,360
Speaker 1: recent years has like kind of fallen out of favor.

1498
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:56,320
Speaker 1: But child was a very common character to use in

1499
01:32:56,760 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 1: girls names compared to adults being used and boys names

1500
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,040
Speaker 1: or whatever. But um, yeah, but like the idea, like

1501
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 1: she's like that their names really match their personalities and

1502
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 1: their generation. But yeah, it's like they're they're very much

1503
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: like chosen like kind of stock characters. That makes sense.

1504
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 1: That yeah, that does That's interesting. Um. Does anyone have

1505
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:26,679
Speaker 1: any final thoughts about the movie? My last thing was just, um,

1506
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 1: no face. Uh. We've talked about no Face a bunch

1507
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:34,799
Speaker 1: where at different times they appear as this capitalism metaphor

1508
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:39,320
Speaker 1: and then other times I liked the I mean, Shahiro

1509
01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 1: has this I guess like childlike in a good way,

1510
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 1: but also just like this kind of superhuman ability of

1511
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:52,800
Speaker 1: like forgiveness and a willingness for like almost I think

1512
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:55,360
Speaker 1: you can make an argument for like Jahiro believes in

1513
01:33:55,439 --> 01:34:00,840
Speaker 1: restorative justice, um with at least with No with with

1514
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 1: No Face, and also with the Stink Monster, where she's

1515
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:07,040
Speaker 1: you know, the central character who does not judge people

1516
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:10,200
Speaker 1: based on how they look or um. I think like

1517
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 1: through the story learns to you know, at least challenge

1518
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:17,400
Speaker 1: her first impressions of people or what she's told to

1519
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 1: think about the people in spirits and creatures that she meets.

1520
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:25,519
Speaker 1: And I was touched by her relationship with No Face,

1521
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 1: which in my memory I think it's just because like

1522
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 1: that iconic image of them together, I remember the movie

1523
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:34,200
Speaker 1: as them being together way more than they actually are.

1524
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 1: Not true, They're actually not together very much. Um, but

1525
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:42,080
Speaker 1: just that you know, No No Phase does some shit,

1526
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:46,080
Speaker 1: like No Face is really committing some crimes in there

1527
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:51,679
Speaker 1: and eating some poor people, which which I also would

1528
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 1: not have been upset if Hiro was like No Face

1529
01:34:55,720 --> 01:34:58,600
Speaker 1: it's been real, um, but you need to go to

1530
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:02,559
Speaker 1: therapy and work on yourself, not my I'm not going

1531
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:04,800
Speaker 1: to take on this emotional labor at this time. No

1532
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:07,880
Speaker 1: Face which also would have been totally fair and I

1533
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:09,640
Speaker 1: would have been completely happy with that. But I just

1534
01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:13,679
Speaker 1: thought it was an interesting creative choice, which maybe, again,

1535
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 1: like Puts, we've mentioned this like, uh, you know, Chihiro

1536
01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:20,439
Speaker 1: is taking on a lot of people shit uh in

1537
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:23,600
Speaker 1: this story in a way that you know, maybe it

1538
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:27,920
Speaker 1: certainly isn't fair to her, um, but she does it willingly.

1539
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: It seems like an out of her own nature. And

1540
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,720
Speaker 1: I appreciated how, you know, once it felt like No

1541
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:38,880
Speaker 1: Face demonstrated a desire to not behave the way that

1542
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:44,080
Speaker 1: they were behaving, and they you know, freed the people

1543
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 1: that they ate from themselves, and then Chahiro was like, Okay,

1544
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:52,400
Speaker 1: let me get you out of this horrible like out

1545
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 1: of this like toxic environment and take you to Granny

1546
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:57,680
Speaker 1: and see how you do. I just thought that was

1547
01:35:57,720 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 1: an interesting I guess, I don't know what like more oralistic.

1548
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:02,720
Speaker 1: They could go either way, but um, I thought it

1549
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:06,439
Speaker 1: was an interesting choice. Yeah, I feel similarly conflicted. Yeah,

1550
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:09,720
Speaker 1: she does blame the bath house specifically for causing No

1551
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:13,280
Speaker 1: Face to be this way, which is interesting and also

1552
01:36:13,720 --> 01:36:17,679
Speaker 1: probably another iconic shot of this movie is like, well,

1553
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:20,800
Speaker 1: because like you know, he is violently vomiting all over

1554
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:24,640
Speaker 1: the bath house um and chasing what did you do

1555
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:28,080
Speaker 1: to me? And luck in in doing so. There's a

1556
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 1: part where you Babba tries to fight him off and

1557
01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:34,160
Speaker 1: gets also covered in um no face vomit, and that

1558
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 1: is that's nice. I like that. I like that part.

1559
01:36:37,200 --> 01:36:39,600
Speaker 1: I was a big fan of that as well. He

1560
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:46,479
Speaker 1: loved it. Yeah, any anything else that folks want to cover,

1561
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:50,439
Speaker 1: I think that's it for me. Yeah? Same Here does

1562
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:57,800
Speaker 1: Spirited Away pass? The back to test yes yeah to

1563
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 1: Hero and you Baba to Hero and in to hero

1564
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:05,000
Speaker 1: in Zeneba. My favorite pass was can't you even manage

1565
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 1: a yes ma'am? Or thank you? Yes ma'am? What a

1566
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:13,120
Speaker 1: dope hurry up like pass that passes? Like in the

1567
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 1: first scene, because like the first the whole first scene

1568
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 1: is you know, Chito's mother talking to Chito as they're driving. Yeah, true, yeah,

1569
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:27,880
Speaker 1: so like right away wow. Uh Now on to the

1570
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:33,639
Speaker 1: main event. The nipple scale nipple scale zero to five nipples.

1571
01:37:33,680 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 1: Based on looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,

1572
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:42,280
Speaker 1: I will give Spirited Away. I'm like somewhere around a

1573
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:46,920
Speaker 1: four or four and a half. I think there are

1574
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:52,040
Speaker 1: some issues with some of the character designs with the

1575
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:58,599
Speaker 1: female characters or female coded characters specifically, But other than that,

1576
01:37:58,800 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 1: I can't really come plain about much else because I

1577
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:08,639
Speaker 1: and you know me, I love to complain, so we've

1578
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:13,519
Speaker 1: made a career of it truly. So yeah, I mean,

1579
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:19,520
Speaker 1: just between the protagonist of this movie being a relatable

1580
01:38:20,120 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 1: and active female character who is someone that can be

1581
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:31,800
Speaker 1: admired by the target demo of specifically ten year old

1582
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:36,880
Speaker 1: girls according to Miyazaki, um, but also people of all

1583
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 1: age ranges, people of all genders. It's just such a

1584
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:45,760
Speaker 1: cool character, such an interesting story just watching like the

1585
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:50,759
Speaker 1: choices she makes and the friendships she develops, and um,

1586
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:53,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just like it's all really it

1587
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:58,840
Speaker 1: just seems like effortletlessly feminist. Again, not to hand it

1588
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:02,640
Speaker 1: to an autour man, but it's just like, I don't know,

1589
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:05,160
Speaker 1: it's it's great. Um, I'll give it four and a

1590
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:09,479
Speaker 1: half nipples. One will go to to Hero, one goes

1591
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:14,080
Speaker 1: to Lynn, one goes to Zeneba. I'll give one to

1592
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 1: No Face, especially no Face pre and post bath house.

1593
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 1: No Faces behavior in the bath house again seduced by capitalism,

1594
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:30,840
Speaker 1: but No Face overcomes that and um gets a job

1595
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:37,760
Speaker 1: as Zeneba's knitting slash weaving apprentice, so that's fun. Uh,

1596
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: and then my half nipple will go to non binary

1597
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:46,519
Speaker 1: icon the footballs I'll go forward a half as well.

1598
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 1: I really love this movie. I think that it's doing

1599
01:39:50,200 --> 01:39:54,280
Speaker 1: so much that movies in general are not doing effectively

1600
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:59,719
Speaker 1: much less movies that are accessible to everyone. I I

1601
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:05,439
Speaker 1: of Jehudo. I love the environmental message, the capitalism message

1602
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:07,599
Speaker 1: for the most part works for me. There's little moments

1603
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 1: where you're like, but for the most part, I think

1604
01:40:11,600 --> 01:40:15,320
Speaker 1: it's really well done and clearly just based on what

1605
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:18,880
Speaker 1: I now know of Miyazaki's politics and track record, all

1606
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 1: come from a very good place. Yeah, I love you know,

1607
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:28,599
Speaker 1: kind of his cinematic mission and tendency to center female

1608
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:31,240
Speaker 1: characters and the fact that, like you were saying earlier,

1609
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:33,320
Speaker 1: and I mean like there, they wouldn't have made a difference.

1610
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:35,000
Speaker 1: There could have been a kid of any gender in

1611
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 1: this character and it would have been just as impactful

1612
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:42,439
Speaker 1: and wonderful. Some of the animation choices. I mean, it's

1613
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:47,800
Speaker 1: a gorgeously animated movie. Uh, that's not the issue. It's

1614
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 1: just yeah, the the a few a few tropes with

1615
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:55,599
Speaker 1: how women are animated in large animation projects, were still

1616
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 1: present here in a way that I was hoping it

1617
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't be. But it's a little thing in a movie,

1618
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:03,240
Speaker 1: this doing so much right and holds up so well.

1619
01:41:03,640 --> 01:41:08,360
Speaker 1: I would show this to a kids that wouldn't be

1620
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:11,880
Speaker 1: awake crying their eyes out over some of the more

1621
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:16,519
Speaker 1: horrific images in it anytime. Um So I'll go four

1622
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 1: and a half nipples. I'm going to give two to Hiro,

1623
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:25,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to give to to the baby, and I'm

1624
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:31,000
Speaker 1: gonna give the last half Oh wait, sorry, taking him

1625
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 1: from the baby, giving them to Lynn. Baby gets half

1626
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:38,800
Speaker 1: a nipple done perfect. Um yeah, I think I kind

1627
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:40,280
Speaker 1: of almost want to met you guys, but I think

1628
01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with four nipples on this one. Um So,

1629
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 1: you know, the reasons that you mentioned are really good.

1630
01:41:46,479 --> 01:41:48,960
Speaker 1: One thing we didn't talk about that I forgot we

1631
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:52,639
Speaker 1: probably should have mentioned is like in terms of every episode,

1632
01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:54,640
Speaker 1: where like oops, there was a whole huge thing we

1633
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:58,479
Speaker 1: forgot to say in terms of like the production, Um,

1634
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:00,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't find any women in the major roles of

1635
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:06,160
Speaker 1: this movie. Um so that's yeah, that that takes away

1636
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:07,760
Speaker 1: a half nipple for me, and then the other half

1637
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: is yet the representation and stuff. I think overall, it's

1638
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:13,800
Speaker 1: just a really great movie. Again, you know, it was

1639
01:42:13,880 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 1: the top movie in Japan for almost twenty years for

1640
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:19,759
Speaker 1: good reason. Like, you know, you can still show this today.

1641
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 1: There's a you know, the stage show going on in Tokyo,

1642
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:26,480
Speaker 1: like right now, this show, this story is still very accessible.

1643
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:30,800
Speaker 1: Uh now, So it's just really like it's yeah, just

1644
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 1: a great story. And the fact that it's able to

1645
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: translate so easily to everyone around the world is uh, yeah,

1646
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:39,599
Speaker 1: it's great. And it's also the reason why we got

1647
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:46,000
Speaker 1: more ghibli localizations. Uh moving forward. So as far as

1648
01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:52,680
Speaker 1: who gets the nipples goodness, I should have everything, yes, um,

1649
01:42:52,720 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 1: I think definitely one to you know, and one to Lynn.

1650
01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:00,720
Speaker 1: You know. I'll give one to Sniva just because, like

1651
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, she her the problems to their character and

1652
01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:05,760
Speaker 1: both see, just because of how she's drawn and that's

1653
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:09,719
Speaker 1: you know, not her fault. Um, And I'll give one

1654
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:13,600
Speaker 1: to the little Bird, not not the big bird, but

1655
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:18,160
Speaker 1: the little bird. It's an icon as well. Yes, I

1656
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:23,920
Speaker 1: love that. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you for

1657
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 1: having me. It's been an honor and a privilege. Oh

1658
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:30,960
Speaker 1: my goodness, come back any time. Yes, I would love to.

1659
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:35,400
Speaker 1: Where can people follow you on social media? Tell us

1660
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:38,120
Speaker 1: about your podcast, tell us about anything you'd like to

1661
01:43:38,160 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: tell us about. Yeah, so I guess you know the

1662
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:45,120
Speaker 1: first thing. If you like what I had to say today, Um,

1663
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at I

1664
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:50,760
Speaker 1: You she Knows. So that's a y U S A

1665
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:54,200
Speaker 1: g kN o w S. And if you're a fan

1666
01:43:54,320 --> 01:43:57,080
Speaker 1: of the magical girl genre, I talk about it every

1667
01:43:57,120 --> 01:44:01,000
Speaker 1: week with fans and sometimes creators on Sparkle side chats

1668
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:03,800
Speaker 1: with magical Girl Are You? And you can find those

1669
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:07,320
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Magical Girl Are You? Um,

1670
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:12,240
Speaker 1: let's see. Also, I made my voice acting debut this

1671
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:16,720
Speaker 1: earlier this year, and that's on the s I've thank you.

1672
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm on the sci fi Western anthology podcast Breathing Space

1673
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 1: Fading Frontier. Um, I'm in one episode of season two,

1674
01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:28,280
Speaker 1: but it was a lot of fun and if you

1675
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:30,640
Speaker 1: are interested in that genre, you should just listen to

1676
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:36,400
Speaker 1: the whole podcast. But yeah, it's pretty awesome and thank you.

1677
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 1: And then, um, finally, my most recent thing that I like,

1678
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:45,799
Speaker 1: My most recent translation project was this anthology of Sapphic

1679
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 1: comics featuring butch and butch relationships that are created by

1680
01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:53,280
Speaker 1: queer and trans Japanese artists. It's called Boyish Boyish and

1681
01:44:53,360 --> 01:44:56,800
Speaker 1: spelled like Boyish squared. But yeah, you can find that

1682
01:44:57,080 --> 01:44:59,879
Speaker 1: if you search for Boyish to book on the socials.

1683
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,439
Speaker 1: Should be able to find that everywhere. And you know

1684
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:04,960
Speaker 1: they're working on like they want to be able to

1685
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:08,200
Speaker 1: make another like another edition, like a part two of

1686
01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 1: that that anthology. So you know, if the more people

1687
01:45:12,120 --> 01:45:15,880
Speaker 1: you can buy digital copy or physical copy, I think so,

1688
01:45:16,080 --> 01:45:18,599
Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's a really great, beautiful bunch

1689
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:21,320
Speaker 1: of stories. Um. Yeah, it was so fun to work on.

1690
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:24,880
Speaker 1: It's like a dream project. So that's awesome. Yeah, hell yeah,

1691
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:28,360
Speaker 1: I will will link that in the description as well.

1692
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:32,000
Speaker 1: We'll be linking everything. UM. Thank you so much for

1693
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:36,280
Speaker 1: joining us acad and and um for kicking off the

1694
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:41,559
Speaker 1: Miyazaki unit Miyazaki months. I keep hesitating the same month

1695
01:45:41,640 --> 01:45:45,840
Speaker 1: because I fear that we yeah, we'll not get it

1696
01:45:45,880 --> 01:45:47,400
Speaker 1: all done at once, but we will get it all

1697
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:53,040
Speaker 1: done eventually. Yes. And you can follow us on Twitter

1698
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:57,760
Speaker 1: and Instagram at bectel Cast. You can subscribe to our

1699
01:45:58,200 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 1: Matreon that's at patreon dot com. Slash Petel Cast. It

1700
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:05,680
Speaker 1: gets you Tube bonus episodes every month, plus access to

1701
01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:10,120
Speaker 1: the entire back catalog of bonus episodes, and you can

1702
01:46:10,160 --> 01:46:13,040
Speaker 1: always get merged over at t public dot com slash

1703
01:46:13,280 --> 01:46:18,400
Speaker 1: the Bectel Cast. With that, we we can't look back.

1704
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:23,160
Speaker 1: It's hard to say did the podcast happen? We'll never know.

1705
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:26,120
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. I have this shiny

1706
01:46:26,560 --> 01:46:30,919
Speaker 1: hair tie. I'm wearing a jersey that's a Shaquille O'Neal.

1707
01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:38,519
Speaker 1: What does it mean? It all happens, It happens. Okay,

1708
01:46:38,600 --> 01:46:39,599
Speaker 1: bye bye bye