Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with
Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. This
Speaker 1: is this Variety Deputy music editor gem As. A lot
Speaker 1: in this week's installment actually is from a discussion panel
Speaker 1: I put together about three weeks ago October twelve one
Speaker 1: for the Mondo NYC count called the State of the
Speaker 1: Music Industry. It looks at how the business is doing
Speaker 1: twenty months into the pandemic. While that topic is obviously
Speaker 1: ridiculously broad, I narrowed it down to four key roles
Speaker 1: and chose people who are running successful careers or businesses
Speaker 1: or departments. An artist, an agent that's the person whose
Speaker 1: job it is to get work for the artist, everything
Speaker 1: from live shows to book deals. An artist manager in
Speaker 1: this case one who also happens to be an attorney
Speaker 1: in the GM of an independent record label, and a
Speaker 1: music publishing executive. Asked each one questions about what their
Speaker 1: experiences have been like over the past year and a
Speaker 1: half and how they pivoted to use everyone's favorite pandemic
Speaker 1: buzzword to keep alive their careers, and those are the
Speaker 1: people that they worked with now. I was honestly stunned
Speaker 1: by these conversations. The speakers were Brittany Spencer, a country
Speaker 1: singer songwriter who CBS This Morning is called Nashville's new Star.
Speaker 1: She saw her career take off almost entirely during the
Speaker 1: pandemic by keeping a dialogue with her fans, playing live streams,
Speaker 1: and dropping a series of songs online that led up
Speaker 1: to the release of her debut EP, Compassion, which has
Speaker 1: gotten rave reviews in the press and really has made
Speaker 1: her arrive. Here. She speaks in vivid and very poetic
Speaker 1: terms about how she did it and how strange it
Speaker 1: all felt to be achieving a lot of her dreams
Speaker 1: during a pandemic, and the deep connection she's made with
Speaker 1: her audience as they rode through the past months together.
Speaker 1: Next up was Lucy Dickens, the London based co head
Speaker 1: of music for William Morris Endeavor talent agency who works
Speaker 1: with A Dalla and Mumford and Sons and loads of others.
Speaker 1: She spoke about how she and her company found new
Speaker 1: ways not only to keep their artists and clients working,
Speaker 1: but also how the staff and company adjusted and found
Speaker 1: new opportunities for themselves and the business. Next up was
Speaker 1: Bent and the Ambi Brown, artist manager and founder of
Speaker 1: her own oh Maliley Projects, but also an attorney in
Speaker 1: general manager of Keep Cool Records, an independent hip hop
Speaker 1: and R and B labeled distributed by Our c A.
Speaker 1: She spoke about how our artists not only kept motivated
Speaker 1: but have managed to thrive through the pandemic, and also
Speaker 1: about the moment how she and they embraced the Black
Speaker 1: Lives Matter protests of the spring and summer of and Finally,
Speaker 1: Christina Hedrick of Sony Music Publishing talked about how that
Speaker 1: business has actually managed to soar during the pandemic, as
Speaker 1: the shutdown of touring led not only to a boom
Speaker 1: of songwriting but a boom in the value of songs
Speaker 1: and song cattle. With everyone home streaming and no one
Speaker 1: playing concerts for months and months, songs turned out to
Speaker 1: be a valuable and durable thing to create. Non Now,
Speaker 1: it's not all roses. These are not all positive stories,
Speaker 1: and each of these people talk about how difficult it
Speaker 1: was to achieve anything, let alone the success that they
Speaker 1: did during this time. It's a really remarkable conversation, although
Speaker 1: I hesitate to call it that because I basically just
Speaker 1: asked each one A couple of long winded questions, and
Speaker 1: they took off with these thoughtful and inspiring answers. Normally
Speaker 1: these kinds of discussions are round tables filled with bantering
Speaker 1: and contradictions and even arguments, and everyone here let each
Speaker 1: other have their say, and we're so complimentary and supportive
Speaker 1: of each other. No coincidence they're all female. So without
Speaker 1: further ado, after the break, you'll be hearing from them
Speaker 1: and me on strictly business. We'll be right back. We
Speaker 1: will start up, actually, um, start this up, be taking
Speaker 1: you look at where things are in the music industry
Speaker 1: at the moment, where we've been in the last year
Speaker 1: and a half as we all cope with the pandemic
Speaker 1: and uh, what's come of what we feel is coming next?
Speaker 1: And bring me. I'm actually gonna start with you, um,
Speaker 1: not not to be mean, but because without music and musicians,
Speaker 1: none of us have anything to do here. So go
Speaker 1: back eighteen months. Um, your career is on the rise. Um,
Speaker 1: your ep I guess was about to come out at
Speaker 1: that time or coming out soon. Um, presumably lots of
Speaker 1: tour dates lined up, COVID hits. How did you react,
Speaker 1: how did you pivot? And um, how did you keep
Speaker 1: your career moving because you've you've been on and up
Speaker 1: on and up swing through all this. Yeah, it's been
Speaker 1: the most bizarre thing, um, if I'm honest in a
Speaker 1: beautiful way, but also um, you know, I, like you said,
Speaker 1: I was getting ready to release my EP at the
Speaker 1: time that the pandemic hit, and I actually put it
Speaker 1: off for a few months. Um, and I kind of
Speaker 1: changed course and decided to release each song one at
Speaker 1: a time because I figured everyone's home, you know, what
Speaker 1: are we doing? Just you know, there's no rush um,
Speaker 1: And I I wanted to take a more of a
Speaker 1: content approach um to my releasing I guess style. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the world came, it stopped. It just no
Speaker 1: one knew what to do. I mean, as as far
Speaker 1: as artists goes and the artists in my orbit, none
Speaker 1: of us knew what to do. I mean, we didn't
Speaker 1: know if we should release music. We thought, oh, it's
Speaker 1: only gonna be other month. That was kind of like
Speaker 1: the talk at the beginning of the pandemic, it's going
Speaker 1: to be a month um of quarantine and then we'll
Speaker 1: be okay. And and so I held off, you know,
Speaker 1: like a lot of artists, and then at some point,
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't want to do this anywhere.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hold off. I just you know,
Speaker 1: I want to go. UM. I think the advantage of
Speaker 1: me being such a new artist is that, UM, I
Speaker 1: didn't really feel like I didn't feel pressured to change
Speaker 1: my tactics. I guess, so my little strategies I just
Speaker 1: I just show who I am. I honestly, every song
Speaker 1: that's on my EP has probably been on my social
Speaker 1: media for at least six months prior to it even
Speaker 1: being released. I just tried out new songs on social
Speaker 1: media the way people trying out at shows, and so
Speaker 1: I just found ways to engage music and find different
Speaker 1: ways to to do content. UM. A whole lot of
Speaker 1: COVID testing. Honestly, there was like a period of several
Speaker 1: months where I was getting tested at least once or
Speaker 1: twice a week. UM, because I would I would just
Speaker 1: plan everything out and say, Okay, hey, I need to
Speaker 1: do a photo shoot this day, or I need to
Speaker 1: go write a song with this person this day. I
Speaker 1: would just kind of I would plan out my in
Speaker 1: person things and I would just get tested in quarantine.
Speaker 1: And it was a whole lot. It was really interesting,
Speaker 1: like planning out when the hang with someone because you
Speaker 1: need to get tested and and quarantine. But m m hm,
Speaker 1: so I'm having sinus issues right now if you hear it. UM.
Speaker 1: But I think the Jurassic change, and I'll try to
Speaker 1: be brief. For me at least is watching everything come
Speaker 1: to a halt and feeling the agony of that, but
Speaker 1: also finding the opportunity and that. And I think for artists,
Speaker 1: we found we found ways to dig deeper into our music.
Speaker 1: We found ways to um, I don't know, to engage
Speaker 1: Like a few friends of mine, we started just going
Speaker 1: around and doing shows in people's backyards for a little
Speaker 1: bit UM like when it got a little safer, UM
Speaker 1: Like towards the end of last summer, UM, we started
Speaker 1: getting more creative with strategies. I I just signed with
Speaker 1: my booking agency at the top of this year, UM,
Speaker 1: and so we just we started engaging UM branding opportunities,
Speaker 1: We started engaging the live stream opportunities, anything that was UM,
Speaker 1: I guess innovative for this particular time. We just started
Speaker 1: engaging it UM. And I think artists had to be
Speaker 1: really open to that because a lot of times, I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of artists in Nashville. They don't want
Speaker 1: to do TikTok all the time. We don't, we don't.
Speaker 1: We don't like to do things. We just like to
Speaker 1: go do shows. It was it was not the easy route,
Speaker 1: and and you know it's not easy to do shows,
Speaker 1: but it was the biggest, it is the biggest the
Speaker 1: revenue stream, and so artists had to I feel like
Speaker 1: we had to open our minds and and really just
Speaker 1: be open to finding more innovative ways to see the
Speaker 1: opportunity in quarantine and not just the the pain in
Speaker 1: the agony and the setback of it. And I think
Speaker 1: some of those things will be implemented uh and years
Speaker 1: to come, I think in addition to live shows. But
Speaker 1: people are going to have to be more innovative, I
Speaker 1: think moving forward in order to sustain a viable career
Speaker 1: path for artists. How did you replace the income that
Speaker 1: you lost from from not being able to play live shows? Um,
Speaker 1: I think, well, during the pandemic. I actually I had
Speaker 1: a job even before the pandemic. I had a part
Speaker 1: time job that allowed me to work remotely. So I'm
Speaker 1: a new artist, Like the tag is probably still on me,
Speaker 1: Like I'm I'm new new UM, and I was spending
Speaker 1: I mean, prior to the pandemic, I was spending a
Speaker 1: lot of time recording, a lot of time writing, and
Speaker 1: I started doing these personal trips where I would just
Speaker 1: go and travel to different cities, different states to write
Speaker 1: with my friends. And I did that for a long time.
Speaker 1: Um but I was I was still working. But but
Speaker 1: in addition to that, I mean, I wasn't able to
Speaker 1: continue to work during the pandemic as things started taking
Speaker 1: off for me. Um but I I just found branding
Speaker 1: opportunities really, UM, I felt opportunities to um with live streams.
Speaker 1: Live streams were really cool help um in terms of
Speaker 1: income as well. UM yeah, those were my Those were
Speaker 1: probably my two biggest ones. And I think for more
Speaker 1: established artists there were more opportunities. But as an independent
Speaker 1: artist who was new, I really just had those different
Speaker 1: Um those really those two outlets. I mean it's probably
Speaker 1: maybe one or two more that I'm not remembering, but
Speaker 1: those were the biggest ones. Branding and live streams and
Speaker 1: uh but yeah, I mean it's it's a labor of love.
Speaker 1: I mean, especially as a new artist, and I was
Speaker 1: doing some of the most fantastic things. I never even
Speaker 1: thought I could do, and I was doing it from
Speaker 1: my studio apartment, like getting to have a feature in
Speaker 1: New York Times or being a rolling Stone, And like
Speaker 1: they're not sending photographers, you know, you had my makeup
Speaker 1: artist was literally taking photos of me and we were
Speaker 1: getting sent off to edit. And so like these big
Speaker 1: monumental moments were happening in a way that I never
Speaker 1: thought they would. I thought it would be bigger, I
Speaker 1: thought it'd be something else. And and because of the
Speaker 1: solitude that we've had in quarantine, we've had to really
Speaker 1: readjust and really reimagine, um, how things, how big things
Speaker 1: could be, and and and I guess in ways that
Speaker 1: we didn't foresee them in pass. So I hope I'm
Speaker 1: answering your question. Yeah, no, that's actually a really interesting
Speaker 1: way of putting it, is, is how big things can be?
Speaker 1: Did you get so you enjoyed live streams? Because I remember, um,
Speaker 1: you know, you think about the early ones like that
Speaker 1: that Elton John benefit where you've got Paul McCartney like
Speaker 1: playing into his phone. Um, you know, and several months
Speaker 1: later things had really really progressed. Um, did you ever
Speaker 1: get used to st make it easier? But did you
Speaker 1: ever really get used to playing, you know, playing live streams. Um. Yes,
Speaker 1: as a person who who just posted videos online. I
Speaker 1: didn't do it all the time, but I did it
Speaker 1: quite a bit, um playing for Instagram or you know,
Speaker 1: like people playing for people who going to see you
Speaker 1: on YouTube or Instagram or Twitter. I was kind of
Speaker 1: used to it. I did enjoy it, honestly, UM, But
Speaker 1: I do understand missing that that interaction that really can
Speaker 1: only be gained from a live performance. You missed that exchange,
Speaker 1: You missed that that conversation, and in live streams can
Speaker 1: kind of just be this this, this um, just one
Speaker 1: way conversation that might not always be the most engaging
Speaker 1: um or fulfilling, but it's I like it. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a really cool opportunity to to hone in
Speaker 1: on the craft of just I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and where I come from, we call it just flat
Speaker 1: footed singing, like just standing there and singing the song
Speaker 1: and singing and communicating the story and singing your gass
Speaker 1: off and and not relying on on what can sometimes
Speaker 1: feel like a crush. If you have that audience interaction,
Speaker 1: everyone's loving it, you know, you that can kind of
Speaker 1: sometimes be an artistic crutch. There. There's so many times
Speaker 1: where I've looked back at a video and I thought
Speaker 1: I felt so good on the stage, and I listened
Speaker 1: back and I'm like, oh my god, what was I
Speaker 1: doing at this part? That sounds crazy? But everyone was
Speaker 1: just loving it, you know, And so it's it's those
Speaker 1: moments where it just it was a time to really
Speaker 1: hone in. That's that's the best way that I can
Speaker 1: describe it. For artists. It was a time to hone in.
Speaker 1: What are we writing about? You know, we were in
Speaker 1: the pandemic, but it was also a whole lot going on.
Speaker 1: It wasn't we weren't lacking um events at all during
Speaker 1: this pain theem We were in the houses, but I
Speaker 1: mean they were protests going on. There was there was
Speaker 1: a whole lot of injustice happening. There was an election
Speaker 1: we were embarking upon. There was there were events. You know,
Speaker 1: this was a very eventful time of solitude, and so
Speaker 1: it I think it cause creatives to really to really
Speaker 1: dig in and figure out what it is that they
Speaker 1: want to say, and also what do I want to
Speaker 1: do the next time I get in front of people.
Speaker 1: You know, we're not going to take those moments for
Speaker 1: granted anymore, at least I hope not, you know, just
Speaker 1: thinking like oh, it's another show, or or just get
Speaker 1: on the bus and just treating this casually like oh,
Speaker 1: this is just my life. No, because we remember when
Speaker 1: we couldn't do this anymore. Remember when it was it
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't an option. You know, you didn't see people,
Speaker 1: you didn't get to see your fans. I mean even now,
Speaker 1: like on I'm on the road right now with Brett
Speaker 1: Eldredge and with Jason Is Bowl, and I don't I
Speaker 1: don't think we bring people backstage, Like there are no
Speaker 1: meet and greets. Um, we're not bringing friends and family backstage.
Speaker 1: Everyone is vaccinated. Um, we're all wearing masks behind stage,
Speaker 1: and so it's it's um, it's different. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: about to be playing I'm about to do my first
Speaker 1: show at the Rhyman Auditorium on Saturday with Jason Is
Speaker 1: Bowl and it's so cool and I can't, like I
Speaker 1: can invite people, but I'm not bringing I wouldn't even
Speaker 1: feel comfortable to bring people backstage. So it's these big
Speaker 1: moments and they're happening much different than we thought. Um,
Speaker 1: and even just touring as a new artist, touring with
Speaker 1: COVID has been has been really really hard. Um, it's
Speaker 1: just it's just some more challenging time. But as a
Speaker 1: new artist, and I keep stressing it because I don't
Speaker 1: really I don't have a huge point of context for
Speaker 1: how life was before COVID because I just released my
Speaker 1: first EP and December. Um, but this is my point
Speaker 1: of context. And so if we can I don't know,
Speaker 1: if I can make it through COVID, then then that
Speaker 1: can hopefully, you know, meet any of the challenge in
Speaker 1: the future. Head on. That's how I feel with COVID.
Speaker 1: It's just if you can make it through this, that
Speaker 1: we can make it through anything. Yeah. I think we've
Speaker 1: all feel like we've been tested enough. So UM, just
Speaker 1: one more question on that on that point, and that's
Speaker 1: how did your relationship with your fans change? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I've talked a lot of artists who say that like
Speaker 1: they know they did a good performance during live streaming
Speaker 1: by the number of claps they see they see, or
Speaker 1: like the number of people who are singing along in
Speaker 1: all caps, you know, singing along. Um, did you engage
Speaker 1: more with your fans? And how did you how did you, like,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of manage that relationship with them, And
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get up for one second because there's
Speaker 1: construction across the way and they got to close the door. Absolutely. UM.
Speaker 1: I I think that my relationship with with fans UM
Speaker 1: has changed in that I think people utilize social media
Speaker 1: a little more. I started noticing a huge uptick someone's
Speaker 1: knocking at my door. I noticed a huge uptick in
Speaker 1: comments and in the amount of people that would just
Speaker 1: message me UM just to let me know, like hey,
Speaker 1: I saw your thing, or just more YouTube comments. I
Speaker 1: saw this thing you did online, I saw this live stream.
Speaker 1: It's just I think the audience has been like that
Speaker 1: immediate UM interaction you don't have, but you can so
Speaker 1: to still here. UM. You don't get that immediate reaction,
Speaker 1: but you do get UM. I guess the after the
Speaker 1: after effect, people just find ways to still engage with you.
Speaker 1: I mean, if we didn't have social media, there would
Speaker 1: be no medium to still communicate with fans and and
Speaker 1: UM and for people to be able to share with
Speaker 1: you their story, you know, because they heard yours on
Speaker 1: some other you know medium, and so it was UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just been a really beautiful time
Speaker 1: I feel and and maybe this I hope this answers
Speaker 1: your question more as well. I feel like even the
Speaker 1: responses that I've gotten from fans has been more um like,
Speaker 1: more in depth. Like people aren't just like, oh, I
Speaker 1: liked your show. They're saying, I loved your show. I've
Speaker 1: had a really hard time. I got laid off from work,
Speaker 1: or you know, my family is struggling financially right now,
Speaker 1: or someone in my family has COVID and this really
Speaker 1: brightened my day. Like people, I'm seeing more of that
Speaker 1: um where people are just excited even now to just
Speaker 1: be back at shows and they let you know, they
Speaker 1: let you know in person if they can, or they'll
Speaker 1: just message or opposed to comment. It's just it feels
Speaker 1: deeper right now because people know the cost of attending
Speaker 1: a show. It's not just a taboo thing. It's not
Speaker 1: just a Friday night this is this is how life
Speaker 1: is enjoyed now. So it feels it feels like it's
Speaker 1: on a deeper level right now, the connection between artists
Speaker 1: and fans. We'll be right back with Variety strictly business,
Speaker 1: taking a look at the state of the music industry
Speaker 1: in the fall of You're back with Variety strictly Business
Speaker 1: this week, taking a look at the state of the
Speaker 1: music industry in the fall of one Lucy, I want
Speaker 1: to move over to the next um again. It's the
Speaker 1: same situation, uh march um. You have a lot of
Speaker 1: artists presumably touring, about to start tours, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden their main source of income is shut down completely.
Speaker 1: How did you and how did w m E pivot
Speaker 1: and find new opportunities for your artists. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously there's been a huge amount of change with within
Speaker 1: the agency world, and I think that the key part
Speaker 1: of all of that was in a way, I think
Speaker 1: it gives you that false moment to actually stop and
Speaker 1: to actually think, because obviously the life thing was always
Speaker 1: so you know, you're on a roll and you just
Speaker 1: keep booking live show, live show, and then when something
Speaker 1: forces you to stop like that, you then have to
Speaker 1: start really really delving into what else you can do.
Speaker 1: And obviously, you know, as Brittany is already alluded to,
Speaker 1: we obviously had to set up a virtual department. We
Speaker 1: also have been things, you know, we've had areas of
Speaker 1: like visual media where with our artists doing that or
Speaker 1: crossover department became hugely, hugely valuable to us for artists
Speaker 1: such as Lizzo and everyone else that we've had that
Speaker 1: can just crossover into like to the other departments. We've
Speaker 1: had Book department that's been working on people like Dave
Speaker 1: grow with his new book that's come out. So it
Speaker 1: really was how do we how do we keep momentum?
Speaker 1: Momentum was the hardest thing, and it wasn't just for
Speaker 1: our clients. It's like, how do you keep momentum and
Speaker 1: people's morale high in a company like that where suddenly
Speaker 1: they don't know what to do themselves. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: it was like a whole big problem that we were
Speaker 1: dealing with. But you know, we navigated through and we
Speaker 1: found lots of other areas and and we've grown other departments.
Speaker 1: You know, we've got the Legends department now, So you know,
Speaker 1: it's been quite I think that that false time being
Speaker 1: able to stop and actually go, hang on a minute,
Speaker 1: what else can we do here? Because we've got all
Speaker 1: these tools available to us in this company, but none
Speaker 1: of us are really utilizing it. So let's start working
Speaker 1: out ways that we can cross the departmentalize and benefit
Speaker 1: and help our artists out. You know. But I think
Speaker 1: depending as Brittany spoke so brilliantly about with a new
Speaker 1: are tist it could. It was so beneficial, like signed
Speaker 1: so many new artists during the pandemic, and I think
Speaker 1: the ability for them to not rush, which I think
Speaker 1: was the key term that you use their Brittany, which
Speaker 1: is so what so many artists always want to do.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, they want to rush everything out.
Speaker 1: It's not rushing, it's engagement. It's letting your fans be
Speaker 1: able to relate to you. And it gave us all
Speaker 1: time for that. It gave us time to think about
Speaker 1: what tour is going to be like when we go
Speaker 1: further forward. What you know what tour wise, my tour
Speaker 1: going to sell bad tickets than the fifteen other tours
Speaker 1: that are out at the same time because obviously we're
Speaker 1: now a bottleneck with everyone wanted to come back touring.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's just having that moment to stop
Speaker 1: and actually to think and be Okay, you know, how
Speaker 1: what else are we going to do here moving forward?
Speaker 1: And you know, times have changed massively and if we
Speaker 1: don't keep moving forward, we become irrelevant and stay all right. Indeed, um,
Speaker 1: were you having a lot of conversations with with your
Speaker 1: artists at the beginning of the pandemic that were almost
Speaker 1: um you know what were you saying to them? To
Speaker 1: keep them optimistic and keep them motivated and keep them moving.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I was actually exceptionally lucky. I
Speaker 1: think I was one of those agents who I didn't
Speaker 1: have a load of artists on the road that were
Speaker 1: like literally asking me to reschedule. I think I'd a
Speaker 1: Rex Orange County tour, which we remember at the time
Speaker 1: when the pandemic hit. He was going off to play
Speaker 1: a big tour in Australia and it was so far
Speaker 1: away that when people are going to need to pull
Speaker 1: that down. I was looking at people like as if
Speaker 1: you were you crazy, Like why would I pull that
Speaker 1: tour down? That's totally going to happen. And I think
Speaker 1: he was the only one that we just left it.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be one of those agents that
Speaker 1: kept rebooking. I think that that was worse for artists,
Speaker 1: was like, sorry, your tour is not going to happen now,
Speaker 1: but we're going to reschedule it to this and so
Speaker 1: many agents I saw were just rescheduling and rescheduling, and
Speaker 1: I was like, what you were scheduling for? You don't
Speaker 1: actually know when we're out of this. So I mean
Speaker 1: for me, apart from him, all of my clients, literally
Speaker 1: all of them have taken that opportunity to write some
Speaker 1: of the most brilliant albums, which I mean, they're all
Speaker 1: about to start coming out as I'm sure one of
Speaker 1: them you're aware of um, and they've all written like
Speaker 1: probably the best records of their life. So again, as
Speaker 1: Britain said that, it's been such a map the amount
Speaker 1: of events that I mean, could you honestly you wouldn't
Speaker 1: be able to when you actually stop and think about
Speaker 1: all the things that have gone on in these last
Speaker 1: two years. And that's like as a global thing, but
Speaker 1: also personally for people. I've lost four very close friends.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's been a crazy time. And
Speaker 1: I think for up for my artists, I was lucky
Speaker 1: because they were just really using that time and men
Speaker 1: with Monthly and signs with Ben, you know, with Winston leaving,
Speaker 1: Ben had a baby, so people were going through these
Speaker 1: amazing emotions and they just basically used the time to write,
Speaker 1: so I didn't. I didn't feel that I got any
Speaker 1: major breakdowns from any of my clients that they were
Speaker 1: just using that moment to be super creative. Mm hmm. No,
Speaker 1: that's very interesting. So where are things now? Are you know?
Speaker 1: Is it is it sort of a tentative return to touring?
Speaker 1: Is it full scale for some artists? Where where are
Speaker 1: things in general? For both your clients and the companies? So, Jen,
Speaker 1: I mean for the companies, I mean it depends on
Speaker 1: whereabouts you are. You know, like obviously in our country department,
Speaker 1: it's been fantastic. You know, touring has been great. So
Speaker 1: that's been going back full throat. Like I remember being
Speaker 1: so jealous when I was looking at all these tours
Speaker 1: and stadiums that were going back out onto on the road.
Speaker 1: I was like, are you serious, Like none of us
Speaker 1: are in that situation, but we're actually you know, it's
Speaker 1: coming back. You know. The problem that now we have
Speaker 1: to do is to navigate how many artists there are
Speaker 1: in the market, and you know, ticket sales are unless
Speaker 1: you are that exceptionally hot artists no matter where you
Speaker 1: are in the world. This isn't just like a UK
Speaker 1: europe international thing. This goes for this every globally, no
Speaker 1: matter where you are in the world. If you're hot,
Speaker 1: your ticket sales are okay, you know they're good. But
Speaker 1: if you're if you're in that mid bit, like it's hard,
Speaker 1: Like we'refore we percent down on sales, So there is
Speaker 1: still a lot of consumer confidence is not quite there yet,
Speaker 1: Like people over here, people backing is going to indoor shows,
Speaker 1: festivals have been running perfectly greener, they've been great, but
Speaker 1: you know, it's we're not out of this pandemic yet
Speaker 1: at all. And so but on that note, what I
Speaker 1: would say is it's certainly going in the right direction.
Speaker 1: Like this is the most positive I've felt, and you know,
Speaker 1: we're about to hit the winter months. I made regret
Speaker 1: saying this, but for me right now, it feels like
Speaker 1: we're on the up trajectory. Well, that's that's good news
Speaker 1: for all of us, and let's hope that stays that way.
Speaker 1: What does I mean? I've always wondered this because touring
Speaker 1: in general is such a puzzle. Um, how do you
Speaker 1: do it when you've got this constantly rescheduled tours, everything bottlenecking?
Speaker 1: Who gets priority in a certain market? Is it? Is
Speaker 1: it just whose sales are oldest? Is it who like
Speaker 1: book the dates first? How does that work? Simply who's
Speaker 1: got the dates first? But you know a lot of
Speaker 1: those things, I mean, for me and and for a
Speaker 1: lot of the other agents I work with, sometimes you
Speaker 1: have to actually look at when was this tour booked?
Speaker 1: And you know, and when is that in relation to
Speaker 1: the record coming out? And now they've written a new record,
Speaker 1: So actually, why don't we just scrap this? You know?
Speaker 1: And I've done this with some of mine and let's
Speaker 1: really look at this on a new record and let's
Speaker 1: build a completely new strategy because so many people are
Speaker 1: cutting and pasting, cutting and pasting, and the same with festivals,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of tired, like people have moved on,
Speaker 1: you know, this generation is so look at the charts.
Speaker 1: You're in your out. You're in your out, So why
Speaker 1: do people want to stay and have the same you know,
Speaker 1: the same albums listen to which is now effectively could
Speaker 1: be two three years out of day. So it's very
Speaker 1: much for me and for all the a lot of
Speaker 1: the agents you know that I work with, we've been
Speaker 1: very much we've been sort of strategizing and going does
Speaker 1: this now make sense, and if it makes sense, us
Speaker 1: go ahead with it, and obviously first come, first serve
Speaker 1: and avows because the avows are terrible. Um. But if not,
Speaker 1: then why we rush in this. Let's get a new
Speaker 1: piece of music out and let's tour with a big
Speaker 1: body of work you know the people haven't seen. Mhm.
Speaker 1: Do you find that most artists are revising their tours?
Speaker 1: Because I'm looking at like the Weekends After Hours tour
Speaker 1: is finally starting in January, the album came out in March,
Speaker 1: and or Billie Eilish I think, completely revised her tour.
Speaker 1: She got three days into a world tour and then
Speaker 1: had to scrap it because of because of COVID. Now
Speaker 1: she's got a new album, a new look, and presumably
Speaker 1: an all new tour. Are most artists just like forgetting
Speaker 1: the old one and moving and moving into something new
Speaker 1: like you were saying, But I think it depends on
Speaker 1: if they've got a new record coming out and how
Speaker 1: relative the record still is. Like some some people are
Speaker 1: folks enough to have a record that sticks around for
Speaker 1: forever and therefore it doesn't really matter if they're going
Speaker 1: to go and play again on a tour. But I
Speaker 1: think for for certainly the hot artists, if they've got
Speaker 1: a new record coming out, it probably would make sense
Speaker 1: to wait for the new record and redo it. Like
Speaker 1: Harry Styles, I believe, is another one that's you know,
Speaker 1: they're looking at that because how many more times do
Speaker 1: you actually want to tell your fans are rescheduling at all?
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I think it all depends on
Speaker 1: what that record, you know, what that new record is
Speaker 1: that's coming out, and how relevant is if it's not
Speaker 1: If it's an artist that is an all time classic
Speaker 1: artist that can tour forever and ever, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if they just reschedule in you know, down the line. Um,
Speaker 1: you mentioned country, what are some other genres that are
Speaker 1: doing well and ones that are perhaps doing that as well,
Speaker 1: because um, you know, like the festivals, which largely have
Speaker 1: a young audience, seemed to be doing great, but on
Speaker 1: a lot of like you know, for instance, the Stones tour,
Speaker 1: I'm hearing about empty seats, which is a rare thing
Speaker 1: for Stones tours. But I also think that's just a
Speaker 1: reflection of the audience's age, you know. I mean, they're
Speaker 1: older and they're going to be reluctant to go to
Speaker 1: a Giant Stadium show. Agreed. I mean that's definitely showing.
Speaker 1: I mean we have I mean, certainly in the hip
Speaker 1: hop department, we're doing we're it's been incredibly strong, you know,
Speaker 1: we have and even on the British rap side that
Speaker 1: we have an artist called Dave that when he did
Speaker 1: a hundred twenty two thousand tickets so far, so like
Speaker 1: that's super super strong, right and yeah, so like it's
Speaker 1: it really does. That's definitely showing. I think you know,
Speaker 1: you're absolutely hit the nail on the head. It's it's that,
Speaker 1: you know, the new generation are obviously not so frightened
Speaker 1: of going out, but saying that, you know, there are
Speaker 1: still drops in festivals still and they're still I think
Speaker 1: with the younger generation it's less of the COVID thing now,
Speaker 1: but it's more the claustrophobic thing of like we actually
Speaker 1: haven't been crammed in festivals are fine, that's one thing,
Speaker 1: but going into a five thousand cap theater or a
Speaker 1: theater that sort of confined space, I think there's still
Speaker 1: a little bit of nervousness there. Understandable. Okay, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for that, um Nter. I will move on
Speaker 1: to you move on to you. And you know, as
Speaker 1: someone who works in so many different areas, UM, which
Speaker 1: areas got hit the hardest? Which ones were easier to
Speaker 1: deal with? Is? Um? You know what was happening with
Speaker 1: your artists when COVID hit and how have they gotten
Speaker 1: through it? Sure? So first of all, Hi Jim, and
Speaker 1: hi everybody. And I've just been learning so much from
Speaker 1: from Lucy and Brittany and UM, and I agree with
Speaker 1: so much that they've said. I'm actually been taking notes
Speaker 1: because one of my artists, UM was complaining about ticket
Speaker 1: sales this morning. So now I can go back and
Speaker 1: I can say, well, you know it's down, and you're
Speaker 1: already sold, and you're already and you're more than a
Speaker 1: month out, so be quiet. UM. So thank you Lucy
Speaker 1: for arming me with that UM useful data, uh for
Speaker 1: for me as a manager. But yeah, I mean, but
Speaker 1: the live obviously took took a hit. UM. And and
Speaker 1: in some places the biggest artists was whom I work
Speaker 1: and have worked. UM, they ended up being okay because
Speaker 1: they got branded live streams and those were quite lucrative UM.
Speaker 1: And they kept getting them over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: And like I said, they were quite lucrative, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: per label side artist. You know, like we're selling records.
Speaker 1: Stuff is streaming, you know, and there were people who
Speaker 1: were saying that it was only the older stuff that
Speaker 1: was streaming, but that's not been my experience my new
Speaker 1: artist UM. You know. So for example of Van Jess,
Speaker 1: like they've they've had a great year. You know, we
Speaker 1: dropped an EP, it was initially an EP before we
Speaker 1: made it a deluxe in August UM and turned it
Speaker 1: into an album or actually September UM. But you know,
Speaker 1: they dropped their their their their project on Keep Cool
Speaker 1: in February. You know, people started sending it around, listening
Speaker 1: to it. You know, we're doing great on radio UM.
Speaker 1: And so it's been it's been a it's been a
Speaker 1: good year for us, UM. You know, I will say
Speaker 1: that like for me, my approach going into the pandemic
Speaker 1: was I didn't have the short term perspective a lot
Speaker 1: of people had. I knew that it was gonna be
Speaker 1: a while, and I knew that for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm an immune compromise person um as
Speaker 1: I think you know, Jim, I have sickle cell disease
Speaker 1: and one of my doctors had actually sent me a
Speaker 1: text saying, wherever you are, you need to just plan
Speaker 1: to stay there for a long time. So I hope
Speaker 1: that you're safe because you shouldn't go anywhere. Um. And
Speaker 1: then another friend of mine who worked for the CDC
Speaker 1: UM had called me and said, by the way, this
Speaker 1: is really bad, So don't believe anybody who's saying that
Speaker 1: this is just like a two week or three weeks thing.
Speaker 1: So well before most people started quarantining, I had started
Speaker 1: gathering all of my my goods. How do you get
Speaker 1: a new artist out there if they can't tour or
Speaker 1: if they're they're touring is much more limited than it
Speaker 1: would have been pre COVID. How do you get a
Speaker 1: new artist out there even when they're you know, taking
Speaker 1: this time to become more themselves. I first task as
Speaker 1: a manager music executive as well, but my first task
Speaker 1: as a manager was to make sure that I could
Speaker 1: continue building my artist careers like that was the first
Speaker 1: thing I needed to build their careers. I needed to
Speaker 1: make sure they had money in their pockets, UM, and
Speaker 1: I needed to we needed to all take care of
Speaker 1: each other emotionally, because of course it wasn't just the
Speaker 1: pandemic that was occurring. It is also, you know, the
Speaker 1: the racial reckoning and the majority of my artist right now, actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: the majority of my artists right now are black, and
Speaker 1: so we're affected, you know. And I'm not suggesting that
Speaker 1: only black people were affected by George Floyd and the
Speaker 1: racial reckoning, but it definitely felt a particular kind of way,
Speaker 1: you know, like some of them felt like they needed
Speaker 1: to get out and to be in the streets and
Speaker 1: protesting and involved and engaged. And I certainly felt the
Speaker 1: same way, although I didn't go outside. Um and so
Speaker 1: you know what, from the perspective of there's all of
Speaker 1: this stuff that we have to juggle right now, making
Speaker 1: sure that they had food on the table. For me,
Speaker 1: it was about calling people, being on the phone every
Speaker 1: single day, like calling people at radio, calling people at
Speaker 1: the streaming platforms, calling people of brands, you know, calling journalists,
Speaker 1: like calling you know, like making sure that we had
Speaker 1: the right people on the team, and just working bit
Speaker 1: by bit slowly and surely and having a lot of faith,
Speaker 1: you know. And there were some things where we got lucky,
Speaker 1: you know, like because we were able to position things
Speaker 1: the right way on social media, because we were able
Speaker 1: to position them the right way, um, at the platforms
Speaker 1: and with our playlisting strategy. Um, you know, like the
Speaker 1: music is good and solid music, and so people were
Speaker 1: listening and they were receptive to it. Christina, and finally
Speaker 1: getting get to ask you a question, because out of
Speaker 1: all the areas of the music industry, intellectual property and
Speaker 1: publishing have boomed more than any other during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Publishing was already on an upswing when the pandemic started,
Speaker 1: it's become even more so. Um, how have you kept
Speaker 1: up with what's going with what's going on, especially with
Speaker 1: all these big money players coming into the game, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, how is it how is it going for
Speaker 1: Sony Music Publishing, and how has it gone for your writers? Um,
Speaker 1: with this boom that's been happening. Uh, wow, it's a
Speaker 1: little question. Uh. First of all, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for having me, and I'm loving listening to everyone else's
Speaker 1: experiences about the industry during the pandemic. Um, you're right,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great time to be a songwriter
Speaker 1: who's looking to sell right now, Like this market is
Speaker 1: crazy and I do think that aspects of the pandemic
Speaker 1: highlighted how important songs are, the meaning behind songs to people, uh,
Speaker 1: writing songs, uh, people at home, being able to listen
Speaker 1: to songs, having access to them, whether it's live stream
Speaker 1: or streaming or radio. Um, everything starts with the song.
Speaker 1: So I really do believe in the lasting value of
Speaker 1: investing in copyrights. Um. And it seems like the rest
Speaker 1: of the world is waking up to that too, especially
Speaker 1: investment companies and non music based companies. UM. I think
Speaker 1: it's this kind of competitive marketplaces. It's a great marketplace
Speaker 1: to be in because it pushes all of us to
Speaker 1: do our best in service to songwriters, which is our
Speaker 1: always our goal. Uh. And it just pushes every company
Speaker 1: to be you know, innovating and improving and supporting songwriters
Speaker 1: and in even better ways. M hmm. Do you think
Speaker 1: that all the money that's coming in from non music sources,
Speaker 1: which is which is especially going crazy in the past weeks.
Speaker 1: I mean, this morning, um, black Stone announced the new
Speaker 1: deal with Hypnosis and Hypnosis. I'll be the one who
Speaker 1: can say this has played a huge role in driving
Speaker 1: up the prices publishing by paying so much. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like a bubble is happening? Do you think this
Speaker 1: is ultimately going to get too big with the way
Speaker 1: that outside money is coming in. I mean, because these
Speaker 1: are big Wall Street firms that are now investing in
Speaker 1: music and bringing non music people into ownership of a
Speaker 1: very very specific asset. Yeah, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's hard to say whether it's gonna end up being
Speaker 1: a bubble. I hope that it isn't, because I do
Speaker 1: believe in the lasting value of investing in copyrights. UM.
Speaker 1: I do know that we we aim to do the
Speaker 1: deals that make sense for us as a company. H
Speaker 1: and I feel like there are a lot of companies
Speaker 1: out there that are like us, UH who are continuing
Speaker 1: to do that as well. UM and UH. We try
Speaker 1: to compete as much as we can with UH, with
Speaker 1: those investment companies like Hypnosis UM and UH. You know,
Speaker 1: We've done a lot of acquisitions that I've been really
Speaker 1: proud of in the past few years. We just did
Speaker 1: river House last year in Nashville, which was a great
Speaker 1: acquisition for us. It's a continuing j D partnership that
Speaker 1: we're building, UH, and we got access to a roster
Speaker 1: of writers that have really big driving Nashville hits for
Speaker 1: the last few years. Uh, so I think there are
Speaker 1: lots of opportunities for companies to continue doing deals like that.
Speaker 1: Do you have advice or is there any sort of
Speaker 1: company wide suggesting, um that that you have first songwriters,
Speaker 1: especially up and coming songwriters, for getting their work out
Speaker 1: there during a time when people can't tour, and you know,
Speaker 1: like we've we've got a much more limited and focused
Speaker 1: output for I. I know that we use like the
Speaker 1: A and R s in our company, use a ton
Speaker 1: of discovery tools. Um. Pretty much everyone I work with
Speaker 1: is a massive fan of music. Uh. I'll be excited
Speaker 1: to get back to an office environment where I can
Speaker 1: walk down the hall and hear what everyone is listening to,
Speaker 1: because right now it's harder. You know, you have to
Speaker 1: seek out what other people are listening to. UM in
Speaker 1: a different way, it feels very organic when you're able
Speaker 1: to just be talking to your colleagues and uh listening
Speaker 1: to what is peaking their interest. UM. I think you
Speaker 1: guys really touched on something earlier in the panel which
Speaker 1: was really interesting and true, which is that a lot
Speaker 1: of marquee artists put off releasing in the last year
Speaker 1: and a half or so, and it made space for
Speaker 1: new artists and songwriters in a way that I think
Speaker 1: was a surprise to a lot of us. Um and Uh.
Speaker 1: We saw a lot of new artists like really have success,
Speaker 1: The Kiddle, Roy, Olivia Rodrigo, Like they put out albums
Speaker 1: that really drove the marketplace in a way that you
Speaker 1: would expect of like a more experienced artist or songwriter
Speaker 1: to do. Um and it. It made the year really
Speaker 1: interesting and fine to hear these new voices come into
Speaker 1: the marketplace. Um and I'm excited to see where they go.
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody, this has been absolutely awesome. I was
Speaker 1: worried because you know, it was a long panel, but
Speaker 1: I actually feel like we're getting cut off. You have
Speaker 1: been listening to Variety Strictly Business podcast taking a look
Speaker 1: at the state of the music industry in the fall
Speaker 1: of This is Variety Deputy music editor Jemmy as What.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. You can bet they detain