WEBVTT - T Bone Burnett: Perfection Is Second-Rate 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:13.360 Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.320 all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:18.440 which you can find a link to in the show 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.200 notes for licensing reasons. Each time a song is referenced 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:27.440 in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:32.600 Enjoyed the episode, I thought, this is it man Los Angeles. 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.120 Quincy says, you know, I'd rather live in Los Angeles 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:41.360 than Heaven. That's t Bone Burnette in conversation with my 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.560 Broken Record partner Rick Rubin. We took a hilarious picture 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:47.680 of Rick and t Bone after they taped this interview. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.600 Rick is in a T shirt and shorts. Naturally, t 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.120 Bone towers over him, dressed impeccably in a white shirt 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.000 and a black suit like some old school blues player. 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.440 I think of t Bone as Rick's spiritual father. He's 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.560 a generation older, in his early seventies, but he's had 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.800 the same kind of extraordinary, behind the scenes influence on 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.759 the music we all listen to. T Bone is probably 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.760 most famous for helping launch the careers of artists like 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:18.360 Los Lobos, Counting Crows, and Gillian Welch. Also for producing 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.960 albums by Brandy Carlyle Elton John and the masterfully executed 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:27.840 Raising Sand collaboration between Alison Kraus and Robert plant Oh. 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.200 He also produced and performed on My favorite Elvis Costello 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.640 record of all time, King of America. Then there's this 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.000 film and TV credits which are insane. He partnered with 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.640 the Coen Brothers' music supervisor on The Big Lebowski. He 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.479 worked on Oh Brother, Where art thou walk? The line? 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:49.560 Crazy Heart, jew Detective. The list goes on. He's a 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:54.160 new record out called The Invisible Light Acoustic Space available 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.120 wherever you get your music. It's the first in a 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.880 series of records T Bone will be putting out this year, 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.360 an incredible outpouring of songs coming out of a play 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.680 he's providing the music for. I only met him onths 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.760 years and years ago. What was the most stars studied 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.800 dinner party I've ever attended? It was in La I 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.520 got invited by accident. It was wall to wall movie 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.280 stars and t Bone Burnett, and the only person I 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.120 wanted to listen to was t Bone Burnett. You're about 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:27.600 to understand how I felt. I'm Malcolm Godwell, this is 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:31.160 broken record and I'm heartbroken. I didn't get to join 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:52.280 in on this conversation here in conversation at Shango Law 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:57.240 Studios in Malibu, Rick Rubin and t Bone Burnett. Are 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.120 you always writing songs? No, you know, I took a 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:05.040 job about three years ago Marshall Brickman. Do you know 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.360 Marshall Brickman an incredible character. He was one of the 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.480 original folkies in New York City and I didn't know that. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.880 I only know him as a as a writer. Well, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.040 in the fifties he was one of the cats in 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.800 Washington Square Park and he played on Judy Collins records. 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.200 He played, he was a session musician. He played all that. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.880 He played banjo and fiddle and guitar and mandolin. He 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.680 was the guitar player on Dueling Banjos for Deliverance. And 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.000 by the time he was twenty three, he was the 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:38.120 head writer on the Johnny Carson to Night Show. And 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.320 then he invented The Dick Cavett Show. And then he 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:42.680 wrote those movies with Woody Allen that you would know, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.800 The Annie Hall in Manhattan, and then he wrote Jersey Boys, 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.880 which is amazing, you know. So he's transitioned into theater. 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:53.280 And he called me up and he said, do you 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.520 want to write a musical about the people who played 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.360 Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, and do you remember them 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:04.760 at all? So Roy Rogers was from my generation, the 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.880 biggest star in the world, you know, all through the fifties. 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:12.600 He had a television show and it was an interesting idea. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:14.800 He's in the Country Music Hall of Fame because he's 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.680 a great He was a fantastic singer. But I always 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.400 thought he was Roy Rogers, and I always thought Dale 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.880 Evans was Dale Evans. But they were two actors. I 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.800 didn't know that. Yeah, nobody knows that. So this is 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.080 a story about the people who played them. And so 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.479 they were like the monkeys, yeah, a little bit. Yeah, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.760 except she wrote happy Trails. She was a great songwriter 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.840 and he was a great singer. But they were cast, yeah, 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.479 into those parts. Yeah, and the whole character was made up. Yeah, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.200 the whole character was unbelievable. I brought a song to 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:50.280 play for you. Do you want to play me the song? Yeah? 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.679 That's a nice nice yeah. Yeah. Where will that fall 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.159 into the story, I don't know. I think it's early 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.800 when he's I think he's maybe auditioning for a radio 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.360 show or something. He sings that song but yeah, I 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.240 think it's in the first act. Great, yeah, really good. 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.080 Do you have to write? Are you to point now 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.400 where you know sort of where the songs fit? And 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.280 is there ever a calling to like say, okay, in 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.080 the end of the second act, we need to add 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:24.960 a song in this spot and this is what it 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.960 needs to accomplish in the story. Yeah. In fact, I 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:29.919 just wrote. We did a twenty they called it a 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.040 twenty nine hour reading, which is you get all the 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.080 actors up on their feet and they read the parts 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.720 and you sort it. You do it without costumes or 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.839 without sets, but you get the you get the gist 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.760 of it, the tempo of the thing. And I realized 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.160 after the last one that there I didn't have a 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.640 beginning song for Roy, and I didn't have an ending 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.960 song for Dale. So I went back and I did that. 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.120 I wrote, I wrote a good song called out of 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.599 Nowhere for Roy to start off with, so you meet 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.320 him in strength, and then Dale needed a song at 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.400 the end of a heavy duty number at the end. 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.800 So yeah, And I'm sure we're gonna open it in 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.239 Atlanta and twenty twenty in the fall of twenty twenty, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.400 and I'm sure once we get into the process of 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.760 really getting it up and getting in front of audiences. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:25.640 There'll be a lot more changes to come. Yeah beautiful. 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:30.560 I love the piece and surrender line really good, Yeah, 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:34.120 really good. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and I love the tagline. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.760 The hook line is great. Yeah, everybody wants to live 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:41.560 for but nobody wants to get over. So good. But 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:46.920 when I accepted this commission to write these songs for 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.040 a musical, and I've done a lot of work with 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.000 Sam Shepherd. He and I'd done a lot of things 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:56.159 for plays, but a musicals different because every line has 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.520 to be intentional. You know, you can't write just a 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:05.000 cool Yeah, it's narrative. Yeah, it is narrative. And it 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.280 became it was It sobered me up quite a bit, 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:12.800 and I started reading. I read Sondheim's books, and I 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:16.040 started studying Frank Lesser, who I think was the greatest 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.000 of all the Broadway composers, and Learner and Low and 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.960 all these cats. And it became clear that I was 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.320 going to have to dance or get off the floor. 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.680 So I started waking up every morning at four in 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:33.080 the morning for about a year solid and writing when 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.040 it was quiet. And then when I got through writing 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.440 the twenty songs for the musical, I couldn't stop writing. 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.520 So I've written now I don't know how. We've recorded 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.520 about two hours of music that we're going to start 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.200 putting out at April twelfth. Is the process of writing 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:54.360 a song for a musical different than writing a song otherwise, Yeah, 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.920 it is, yeah, because it does have to move the 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:02.680 story along. But do you start with the music first 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.720 or do you start with the lyrics. I started with 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.840 the lyrics because it's, as you say, it's part of 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.120 the book. It's part of the narrative, so you'd write 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.520 it like a poem basically. Yeah. Would you have a 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.760 melody in your head? Yeah? Yeah, you know, melody is 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.920 really just codified inflection. So it's your storytelling no matter what, 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:26.120 so that every sentence has a certain melody to it. 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.280 And so I was doing that. I was writing, but 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.520 I would have a sense of melody as it was 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:36.199 going down, and then you know, I wrote, we're putting 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.319 out We're starting to put out records. I'm putting out 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.439 three double records in the next year. This year, I'm 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.160 going to kind of work hip hop because I see 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.040 these cats they just put stuff out constantly, so we've 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.920 recorded a lot of these tunes that have come afterward. Yes, 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.960 I stopped. I really stopped producing other people for the 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.440 most part. Although interesting, I've just made a record with 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:02.400 Sarah Burrellis that's really beautiful. She's a beautiful singer, unbelievable. 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.040 And she's also gone through the experience of writing a play. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.000 She wrote a musical of Waitress and it raised the 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:14.680 stakes for her too. Her writing has become much more resonant, deeper, 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.319 and higher. It's interesting to hear her growth through the process. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.680 How is the collaboration with her different than her other records? 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.640 Would you say we did it more live? Which is 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.000 what I mostly do. That's the thing I like most. 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.560 The thing I love about making records is when people 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.000 are playing and singing all at one time and you 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.880 get they get finished, and you say, yeah, that's great. 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.400 You know, it's such a great feeling. It's such a 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:47.600 There's something about people playing together that no amount of 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:55.480 getting it right, yeah, counters the energy of the interaction. Yeah. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.800 Perfection is a second rate idea, and the computer is 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.920 a to put out perfect music all day long, but 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.800 it's not nearly as interesting. It's like those Johnny Cash 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:07.720 records you made with him, just sitting in a room 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.240 with some people, turning them onto a song, you know, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.120 and turning the whole then turning the whole world onto 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.720 the song the same way. So that's that's the process 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.000 I like the most. And I think the band was great. 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:23.600 She you know, it was the same, essentially the same 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.679 band that was un Raising Sand. Jay Belrose played drums 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.920 and Dennis Crouch played string bass and Rebo played guitar. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.760 I love that album so much, Raising Sand. I love it. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.719 Isn't that a beautiful record? So beautiful? Yeah, it really 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.240 took me by surprise. I don't know, I wasn't expecting 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:43.840 it to be so beautiful and just blew my mind. Well, 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:48.400 you know both that both of them have mystical, beautiful voices. Yes, 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.200 and and it was interesting to hear him soften up. Yeah, 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:57.240 but on paper it wasn't necessarily a mustlessen thing, and 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.720 then hearing it it was mind blowing. I also didn't 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.600 I didn't know most of those songs, so I didn't 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.200 know that they weren't original songs. Yeah, so they were 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:10.760 original for most people, yes, Yeah, but uh, it's got 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.560 some of that same Sarah's record has some of that 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.440 same that one come together Robert Allison really, I think 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.880 Bill Flannagan. You know Flannigan, don't you. Flannagan was doing 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:25.720 that show Crossroads, and I think he wanted to do 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:31.240 a Crossroads with Robert and Allison and it ended up 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.360 being a record, and then we did a Crossroads later. 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:39.920 But I think they met from that idea of Flannagan 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.360 pitching them on doing it. They met and they did 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.360 a They did a tribute to Leadbelly or something or 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.760 somebody up up in Cleveland, I think, and they enjoyed it. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:51.480 And then they called me up and said, you want 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.160 to you want to make a record, And I sent 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.520 him those two Gene Clark songs. Those are the first 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.760 two things I sent them Through the Morning Through the 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:04.200 Not and Polly, which I thought had those that Jane 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:09.440 had that dark mystical vibe that they both have. You know, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.960 it's interesting now to hear Robert sing low and soft 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.080 like that and go back and listen to led Zeppelin. 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.280 It's so beautiful. He really showed another side and it 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.840 felt like a side that just the timing of it 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.320 was right for him, you know, like to hear him 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.720 sound like that was a revelation. Yeah, well he sounded 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.880 like a grown man. Yeah, made sense when before. I mean, 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.000 he says himself that the early led Zebelin records he 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.439 sounded like a castrato or something. You know, he was 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.880 singing so high. Yeah, and I imagine that when he 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.840 sings like that now, it's more like he's imitating the 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:49.440 old hymn, whereas raising Sand sounds like more believable now. Yeah, 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.199 I don't think. I really don't think he could sing 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.840 those songs. He couldn't sing him in the range he 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.000 used to sing him in. You know, same with Elton. 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.360 You know, Elton's voice is dropped good octave or something 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.160 like that, and he's got this beautiful, deep resonant baritone now, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.720 and you listen to some of the old records, he 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.920 sounds like he's on helium or something. After after getting 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:15.000 used to his voice now and loving it and going 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.920 back in hearing them, not that they aren't absolutely classic 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.520 and great for the same. Was there any reason you 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.839 didn't do a second one with a follow up to Raisins. 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.040 I don't know. I think we may. I think we 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.199 may do one days. I love that maybe we should 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.960 do Maybe we should do it together. Let's do it. 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.520 It's such a beautiful album. Yeah, I would love to 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.679 do one again. We went in and recorded some songs, 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:43.040 and having been through all the success, so to speak, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.800 the steaks seemed different when we went on the in 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.040 the second time, and it didn't feel I don't think 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.680 any of us felt the same kind of freedom that 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.840 we'd feel. So interesting, isn't it interesting how how the 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.719 stakes changed the whole process. Yeah? Yeah, but but I 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:00.880 think now it's been long enough so we probably could 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.160 go in and just just play. You know, that'd be great. 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.040 Do you have ideas of songs? I hadn't thought about 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.440 it that much. I mean, I've just there have just 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.880 been rumblings about about it. So we'll see. We'll see 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.440 where it goes. Have you done any other collaborations like 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.040 that where it's been two artists who don't normally work together. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.480 I don't think I have Have you done that? Hm? 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.600 When I see it, remember I've done I've done quite 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.480 a few, you know. The Rolling Thunder review, which was 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.520 this studio was part of that whole time. Yes, that 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:43.560 was a beautiful experiment and it was a master class 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.360 in art and show business. I mean, there was every 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.240 Alan Ginsburg and Anne Wallman were there. Sam Shephard was there. 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.960 There are incredible musicians. Joni Mitchell was there, and Joe 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:59.880 Bias and Howie Wyeth and David Mansfield one great musician 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.920 after the Mick Ronson and people from it. Yeah, people 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.920 from all different parts of the world and different disciplines 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.240 in different places, but everybody came together and collaborated and 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.720 it was a it was a tremendous learning experience that 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.040 I've replicated or tried to replicate several times with like 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.080 the Roy Orbison Black and White Night Show, and that 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.320 was incredible too. That was a beautiful, incredible and uh 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.280 I saw it the other day. I was watching it. 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.040 Leonard Cohen was in the audience. I'd forgotten that. I 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:37.000 think that idea of like Aerosmith and run DMC. Did 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:42.080 you have anything to do with that? I suppose, so, yeah, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.480 I forgot. Yeah, it's hard to think, you know what 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.640 I mean, it's hard to think about projects. Yeah, I 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.040 know exactly. It's hard to even look back at all, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.720 and I rarely do. Yeah, me too, but but that 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.480 was certainly one of those that changed everything. Yeah, and 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.200 the boys, you know them, doing I'm Down. Yeah, did 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.240 you ever hear that? Oh? Yeah, it never came out. 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.160 It never came out. It never did no, no, no. 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.600 We couldn't get permission. It was supposed to be on 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.400 that first album, Licensed to Ill. It might have been 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.960 the last thing we recorded for it. We couldn't get 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.240 permission and it never came out. But I think it's 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.400 on like YouTube or somewhere. I heard it. Steve Rabovski 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:26.840 played yeah when it just then yes because guy, yeah, yeah, 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:32.360 and it was I'm really d you know fully, d 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:38.160 fully fully remember that's so funny, so funny man, they 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.000 were cutting up. Yeah, I did that. I did the 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.680 guitar solo in the organ solo. Neither are instruments that 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.120 I really play, and it really shows, you know. It's 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:50.000 like when we come back. T Bone Premiere is another 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.600 brand new song for us, but first we pay the bills. 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.880 We're back and T Bone has another new song to 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.360 play for us called Out of Nowhere, another number from 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.880 the Roy Rogers and Dale Evans musical he's writing for. 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.680 This is the song I realized I needed a song 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:15.600 to introduce Roy. I didn't really have a powerful number 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.400 to introduce him, and as I said. The guy who 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.320 played named Leonard Sly was a It was a soulful, 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:28.040 beautiful cat. He wasn't at all like the swashbuck buckling cowboy, 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.800 you know he was. He was different, and so I 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:35.000 wanted to write something from inside him. Not not about him, yes, 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.280 but for something that he was feeling about his life 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.359 and about where he came from. So this is a 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.879 song called out of Nowhere. Back to that idea you 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.720 were talking about about the way art happens. Yeah, right, 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.040 once you define a thing, you lose it. Yeah, it's 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.679 really hard. Yeah, it's really hard. That's right. Yeah, I 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:04.240 mean it's it's I think in retrospect, after the moment 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.719 of inspiration, where the thing that wants to be revealed 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.960 is revealed and we know we like it, then we 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.320 can maybe try to figure out why we like it 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.800 and you know, and then it's okay. But I think 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.080 the other way around is very difficult. Yeah. I don't 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.159 know if it even happens. I don't know what I 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.840 think artists do. I think all really artists do is 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.320 we're going down a road and we we mark things, 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.359 we say at this day, I was at this place 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.800 and I saw this thing and it was beautiful. Yes, 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.719 And so I'm gonna mark this so that maybe you 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.040 don't miss it when you're going by. That's I think 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:43.480 that's the real, the real journey of an artist. I 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:50.359 can remember seeing French Impressionist paintings of trees in the 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.520 French countryside. I'm thinking it's a very strange decision that 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.760 the artist is making, you know, putting all these different 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.720 blotches of color to make the tree. It's very poetic 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.840 and beautiful, but it's, you know what, a wild imagination. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:07.720 And then it went to France. I saw the trees 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.520 and it's like, oh, that's what they actually look like, 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.760 you know what I mean. It's like it seemed like 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.640 the lyrics of songs hit us in this sort of poetic, 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.600 magical way, when often if we hear the story of them, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:26.600 they turn out to be very ordinary descriptions of what 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.720 really happened. It's I guess maybe it's the information that's 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:35.159 left out that makes them seem so magical. Yeah, I 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.760 think that's right. I do think that's an interesting observation. 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:42.480 I do think that's right. In this song that you 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:47.320 just sang, the hook has a repetition of a phrase 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.160 the first song you play did not have that. Isn't 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:58.760 it interesting that when writing words that certain words can 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.240 be repeated often and it feels really good, And other 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.120 words you repeat them and it feels like you can 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:09.359 never repeat them. Some thing's become a chant and they've 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.800 fallen really naturally. Yeah, it's the melody of the thought. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.720 It's the melody of the of the of the expression. Yeah. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.800 Maybe the phrasing as well, the way the way they 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:27.880 work rhythmically. Interesting. You're pretty good at this. That's very interesting. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.000 Never thought of it at all, neither. I'm thinking of 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.680 it right now. Part of the conversation. That's what's coming 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.520 out from listening to the song. It's like, excellent, how 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.920 does that work? How do we do that? I've noticed 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.680 the difficulty in it, but I've never thought about why. 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.640 But that one, this one here, I don't know. That's 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.800 just something that became very important to me, that idea, 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.520 and it was important in context. It was important for 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.960 Roy Rogers because he for him, everything just happened out 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:00.280 of nowhere. Yes, right, so it was important and for 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.200 him to embrace that idea. And but then it happened, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.120 I mean, the Raising Sand record happened out of nowhere. Yeah, right, 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.639 just I think the best the best things do. Yeah, 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.640 that's right, they really do. They're not they're not they're 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:21.080 not conceived or exactly, they're just they're helped and do existence. Yeah, 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:26.720 And the intention behind them is a beautiful intention. But 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.320 the intention didn't control it happening. It's more like maybe 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:36.240 it allowed it allowed it to be revealed. Maybe just 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.760 got to roll in in the first place. And also 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.680 in the first song, if we were making a record 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:45.800 together and if I was producing it, I would have 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:50.040 suggested repeating the tag at the end of the first piece, 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.000 I'll do that. Well. Well, it depends though, because in 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.919 the context of it, and I was specific about if 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.439 we were making a record together, it would be the 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:00.760 purpose of the song would be different than the way 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:02.760 it would be in a play. Like in a play, 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:04.960 I don't know, I'm just thinking about it. It's like 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.080 the structure and a play might be different than the 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.600 normal song structure wants to accomplish a different purpose and 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:17.480 we won't know until we get it up and we're Yeah, 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.800 I think the idea of making art, like you were 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:26.040 saying earlier about on the Raising Sand album, mistakes got high, 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.240 and then it changed because there was an expectation. I 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:32.440 like to say, and I have said it before to 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.680 artists that I've worked with, is when we're making these things, 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:40.000 the audience comes last. That's what I think too. I agree, 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:42.800 I agree. I don't believe you can do it for 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.760 the audience, No, because I don't think we're I know 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.640 that if we can make something that we like, there's 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:51.919 a better chance that someone else is going to like 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:54.639 it than if we make what we that we don't like, 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.000 but we think someone else is going to like, that 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.560 seems impossible. That's that's one of the problems with you know, 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:04.880 working in television is there's a there are a lot 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:07.520 of people that think they know what the audience wants, 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:09.719 and they're always trying to get you to do the 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:14.520 thing the audience wants. And television is a big collaborative medium, 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.000 and you know, I love to collaborate, and I love 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:22.199 to collaborate with large groups, but it is it's a 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.879 process of it's not a process of starting with the 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.520 audience and then working backward. If you want to make 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.840 something good, right and and what audience is like is 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:37.200 something good? Absolutely, so your real your real obligation or 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:40.720 responsibility to the artist is to make a thing you 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:45.119 really love that. If you do that, then there's a 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:48.240 really good chance they'll really love it as well. Hopefully, 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.840 so at least chance. Yeah, at least you've got a chance. 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.480 And I feel like as a record producer, I often 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:59.320 feel like a proxy for the audience, you too, Right's 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.159 I'm not really a musician, So all I am is 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.080 a glorified fan, you know, That's really what I am. Well, 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:11.000 you're a listener, Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I listen and 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:14.600 I try to understand. I can tune into what pulls 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.919