1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point 4 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: If you can die before you die, then you can 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: I was insane. Yeah, and I didn't know what to 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: do because there was no internet. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: human first and a licensed therapist second. And right now 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy. 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat, I am the host, 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: and quick reminder before we get into today's episode that 18 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: although this podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: called You Need Therapy, it does not serve as a 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However, 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: we always hope that these episodes help the people that 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: are listening in some way at some point in their lives. 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: Let's get into what we are here to talk about today. 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: So it's all about how to disagree well, how to 25 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: have fruitful conversations where the goal is not to change 26 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: somebody's mind, and the goal is not for your mind 27 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: to be changed, but the goal is just to have 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: a conversation with somebody that maybe you don't have the 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: same take with. 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: And this doesn't have to. 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: Just be a debates like on big political topics or 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: just some of the very popular debate. 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: Topics in the world. It doesn't have to just be 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: about that stuff. 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: This can be about experiences that you've had, maybe some 36 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: arguments you've had based on you guys both having different 37 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: experiences at the same time. It's something that I think 38 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: can be helpful in a lot of different kinds of conflicts. 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: And I've talked a lot about our current cultures and 40 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: abilities to sit with differing opinions and our constant pursuit 41 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: of right and wrong many times on this podcast. I 42 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: feel like I bring it up a lot because it 43 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: is part of so many of the things. 44 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: That we struggle with in this world. And when I 45 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: think about that. 46 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: There's one experience that really pops up in my head 47 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: very vibrantly, and it was a couple of years ago. 48 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: I actually became, since this experience, pretty disappointed in myself 49 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: after I cut off an opportunity for really maybe difficult 50 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: but also fruitful conversation abruptly because the person I was 51 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: talking to had a different opinion than mine. And I 52 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: can admit now that in that instance I just felt 53 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: incredibly self righteous and protective and correct. I just cut 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: off the ability to have any conversation because I wasn't 55 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: interested in hearing it. But it wasn't just because I 56 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: wasn't interested in hearing this person's opinion or take, although 57 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: I would have said that back then, and it was 58 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: actually a couple years after this happened. I was sitting 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: in a therapist's office that I was seeing, not my 60 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: own office, and I brought up through something else, this 61 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: residual feeling that I had of this just achiness from 62 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: that experience from that moment, and to be honest, I 63 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: doubt the other parties that were involved in that conversation 64 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: even remember and would remember what I'm talking about, but 65 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: it actually had changed how I felt about them because 66 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: I just created some stories and assumed things because I 67 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: wasn't willing to have a conversation. And I don't really 68 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: like that, and that's what I kind of brought up 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: in therapy a couple months ago. And when we have 70 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: conversations with people who have different opinions or outlooks, I see, 71 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: and also I'm included in this. I see a lot 72 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: of those conversations coming from a place where I'm trying 73 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: to convince the other person that I'm right and they're wrong, 74 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: versus just helping someone understand why I think what I think, 75 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: or being open to understand why somebody else thinks what 76 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: they think. And if we are trying to be right 77 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: and prove that point, then we're not actually able to 78 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: listen openly. We don't do that. We're listening defensively, and 79 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: because of that, we're not able to better understand our 80 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 1: friends because we're listening to find ways to prove our points. 81 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 1: And I know that I lost an opportunity to understand 82 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: somebody better because I was afraid that listening to them 83 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: would make me not like them. But then I was 84 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: later making up stories about them because I didn't have 85 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: that conversation and I made up how that conversation would 86 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: have gone in my head, and I was really lacking 87 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: the awareness that you can disagree with a person's opinion 88 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: and still like them, which seems so simple but at 89 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: the same time very difficult. And maybe if I understood 90 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: more about why their opinion was what it was and 91 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: why they thought what they thought, then I would be 92 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: able to know that I can like somebody and still 93 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: love somebody and disagree with them on big important things. 94 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: But if we don't allow ourselves to have those conversations, 95 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: then we don't allow ourselves to gain that evidence and 96 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: believe that that is a true thing that can happen. 97 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: And I know in my upbringing, going through school, we 98 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: were taught how to debate. It was part of it 99 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: was like a project that we did in high school. 100 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: We all had to do it. We were literally taught 101 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: how to have debates. We were taught how to win 102 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: arguments growing up, but we weren't taught how to respectfully 103 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: disagree with somebody, which is very interesting to me because 104 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: just because you can win an argument, it doesn't necessarily 105 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: mean you are right. So why wouldn't we want to 106 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: know more about how to coexist than how to pick. 107 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 2: Aside and prove it. 108 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: And as I was preparing for this episode, I found 109 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: an article on Psychology Today that it gave like six 110 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: steps and tips to help have conversations with somebody that 111 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: you don't agree with in a healthy, functional way. And 112 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: they were good starting points, but also they were a 113 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 1: little bit too direct from my taste, so I've actually 114 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: decided not to share those because I like to give 115 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: frameworks that allow people to make things their own and 116 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: allow things to feel authentic to them versus just going 117 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: through the motions. So I kind of reworked some of 118 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: what I've found to give more simple and tangible tips 119 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: versus these linear steps that you have to engage in 120 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: that tell you exactly how to have a conversation. So 121 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: I want you to take these how you want, and 122 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: really if you use them, and when you use them, 123 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: I want you to assess how using these tips they're 124 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: not steps, they're just they're really just suggestions. Assess how 125 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: they allow you to show up more regulated in disagreements, 126 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: because when we are having these really heated disagreements, a 127 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: lot of times we become disregulated and then we don't 128 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: even actually show up how we really want to show 129 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: up with people. So let's just get into what I 130 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: came up with. So I think for starters, number one, 131 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: what I would really suggest to people is, let's acknowledge 132 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: that we don't have to be persuaded in these conversations, 133 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: and we don't have to persuade the other person. This 134 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: is not about convincing somebody that you are correct. Disagreements 135 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: can end in disagreeing, and they kind of have to 136 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: have the ability to do that because there's not always 137 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: a right or wrong in situations. Not everything is so 138 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: black and white. So we can hold our beliefs still 139 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: while also listening with respect to our peers, our friends, 140 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: our partners. So I really, in the beginning want to 141 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: encourage people to name the real goal here as understanding 142 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: versus convincing. And then number two, I believe it is 143 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: super helpful to kindly acknowledge that you guys do not agree. 144 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: From the beginning, that seems kind of silly. Establishing this 145 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: awareness that you are different might seem a little like 146 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: duh obviously at certain times in these conversations. However, what 147 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: it does is it sets you both up to be 148 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: able to show up independently and free to do that 149 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: it kind of just I think sometimes levels the playing 150 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: field and allows some relief to come. And this can 151 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: sound differently depending on who you are, but an easy 152 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: way to acknowledge this is just to say, hey, I 153 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: know we share different perspectives on what happened, and that's okay. 154 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: I really want to help you understand why I think 155 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: X y Z, and I also want to understand you 156 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: as well. And it may not change our minds on 157 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: what we think, but it might help change how we 158 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: feel about each other. 159 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: So are you open to that? 160 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: And again, you can say that in your own words, 161 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: however it would naturally come out of your mouth. You 162 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: don't have to follow this exact script. And then the 163 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: next little tip I have, number three is assuming this 164 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: is someone you respect and care for, can you show 165 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: up and take a stance of assumption of good intent 166 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: to start out with Let's just start with that versus 167 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: starting to kind of play that gotcha game and waiting 168 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: for a chance to step in and tell them why 169 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: they're wrong. If we love and respect this person, and 170 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: they're person that's important to us and that we have 171 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: a relationship with that we want to foster to any degree, 172 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: let's assume that they are good meaning people to begin with, 173 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: versus trying to prove why they are bad or wrong 174 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: or what have you. So listen for why what they 175 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: are saying makes sense for them versus you. Their opinion 176 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: is not about you, it's about them, and also vice versa, 177 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: your opinion is about you. 178 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 2: So listen to why what they're. 179 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: Saying makes sense for them versus you and your experience 180 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: of the world. And with that number four, ask for 181 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: clarification when you still don't understand something, And remember, understanding 182 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: here is different than agreeing. Stay in the lane of 183 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: curiosity over judgment. I love that as a phrase to 184 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: replay over and over in my head. Stay curious versus judgmental. 185 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: And remember that understanding why someone thinks something does not 186 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: mean that you agree. So we are trying to understand them, 187 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: We are not trying to agree with them. Therefore, when 188 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: you don't understand it, it's not because you haven't been convinced. 189 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: Do not wait to be convinced or wait for them 190 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: to be convinced. That's again go. 191 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: Back to the first tip. 192 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: It's really not the goal in how to disagree, Well, 193 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: that's the goal, and how to convince somebody that you're right, 194 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: proving your point right, that's the goal, proving your point. 195 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: So the next one number five, which I really imagine 196 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: at some point you're gonna be in one of these conversations, 197 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: Like talking about them on this podcast seems really like, oh, 198 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: this is so light and fun and disagreeing can be 199 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: so beautiful and care free and oh so soothing. Okay, 200 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: but probably not. There's gonna be a lot of instances 201 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: where you're having these conversations where you are like, oh 202 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: my gosh, this is driving me crazy. What they're saying 203 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: is making me feel crazy. I want to yell, I 204 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: want to tell them, I want to just say something unfiltered. 205 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: It's not all gonna feel really rainbows and butterflies. There's 206 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: gonna be tension. And when somebody says something that to 207 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: you feels outrageous or crazy or like something that you'd 208 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: want to be like, are you kidding me? 209 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: That's okay. 210 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: When somebody says something wild that you think is wild, 211 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: that is okay. This is gonna happen, I assume, And 212 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: it's not our job to criticize their views here, and 213 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: it's totally cool to say, hey, I hear you say 214 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: you believe x y. 215 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: Z because of ABC and then leave it there. 216 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: It might still feel crazy to you to say that, 217 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: but again that's not the point. You're trying to understand somebody, 218 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: so that will probably be really hard. You'll want to 219 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: defend and disprove and educate in all the things, and 220 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: you can do that, but again that would not align 221 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: with the goal of understanding somebody versus being right, So 222 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: always go back to that goal. You're not trying to 223 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: convince them that they're wrong or that they are crazy. 224 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: The goal is to. 225 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: Understand why they think what they think. So I hear 226 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: you say you believe blank because of blank? Boom, got it, 227 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: Which leads us to the next little tip. When necessary, 228 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: So this is number six. But when when necessary, especially 229 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: when you think something is wild and out or you 230 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: justin't crazy, do repeat back what you say that same sentence, right, 231 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: I hear you say you believe x y Z because 232 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 1: of ABC, repeat it back and say did I get 233 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: it right? Because a lot of times, when we have 234 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: a lot of emotion in conversations and when things do 235 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: feel wild to us, we start hearing stories in our 236 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: head that actually have not come out of this person's mouth. 237 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: So it's very, very very important to say, I hear 238 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: you say exactly what they said versus how you interpreted it. 239 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: And if you interpreted it incorrectly and you said something 240 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: they didn't say, they get the chance to say, oh, no, 241 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: that's I didn't say that. Let me try again, and 242 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: then they can say it again, and then you can 243 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: say back to them, Okay, so I heard you say 244 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: da da da da da da da da. Did I 245 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: get it right? And do that until they say, yeah, 246 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: you got it. And again, this is I'm repeating what 247 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: I heard, not what I made up about what I heard. 248 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: And this will help you keep in line with that 249 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: goal and allow those emotions to be there and acknowledge 250 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: that they're there and they're going to come up. But 251 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: I need to slow myself down before I start making 252 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: stories and get confused not about what they're actually saying, 253 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: but about the story that I'm making up about what 254 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: they're saying. So repeat and ask for clarification. And then 255 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: the last thing, number seven, The seventh tip that I 256 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: want to offer to you guys, is summarize anything new 257 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: that you learned that actually might have been helpful to you, 258 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: or that actually might have been interesting anything that you 259 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: got out of that conversation. And again this does not 260 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: mean that you are then agreeing with them and they've 261 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: changed your mind. It can just be like, oh, wow, 262 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: I actually learned something in this conversation, and I want 263 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: to thank you for that. So, wow, that's really interesting 264 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: what you shared about drug overdoses. I was not aware 265 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: of that, and I actually really do want to learn 266 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: more about that. 267 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: And I also really appreciate the chance. 268 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: To learn more about you, even if I don't fully 269 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: agree with everything saying, so you get to offer a 270 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: little bit of hey, this wasn't just us disagreeing. We 271 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: both can get something out of this. We both can 272 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: understand each other better, and hey, I might learn something 273 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: along the way. And just because I learned something along 274 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: the way doesn't mean I'm saying I agree with you. 275 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: It's just saying, hey, this was helpful and I appreciate it. 276 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: So I really think it can be helpful at the 277 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: end to acknowledge things that you have learned, even though 278 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: you have not totally decided that you now agree with 279 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: what they're saying. It doesn't have to be this all 280 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: or nothing, black and white situation because rarely it is okay. 281 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: So those are my seven tips. 282 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: And I do want to say I realize that this 283 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: is easier said than done, and it's going to take 284 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: some practice in some time for this to feel natural 285 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: if you have never thought about, or learned or attempted 286 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: to have fruitful conversations when you disagree, and I also 287 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: want to acknowledge that. 288 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: It can be really difficult. 289 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: You're impossible to have a respectful conversation on your own. 290 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is the other party 291 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: involved in these conversations really also needs to come from 292 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: a similar place for this to be fruitful. And if 293 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: they can't, that is totally okay. And it's okay for 294 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: you to say, hey, I really want to be able 295 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: to talk about this and learn from you and have 296 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: a conversation with you here. However, I can really only 297 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: do that if we both agree to aim for understanding 298 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: versus a win on either of our side. And so 299 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: if we can't agree on a goal for this conversation, 300 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if it would be really helpful for 301 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: us to have it, because then it can kind of 302 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: make things worse if your goals are not aligning in 303 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: those conversations. And it's also okay for to ask for 304 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: a break when you need it, even if you guys 305 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: both agreed on a goal for this conversation, because things 306 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: can still get heated and heavy, and when we enter 307 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: into our survival brain, we lose our full capacity to 308 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: reason and allow understanding to be a goal when we 309 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: are operating from a place of pure emotion. So ask 310 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: for a break, and it doesn't have to be a 311 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: thirty minute break, and be like, hey, I feel myself 312 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: getting really hot, I feel myself getting really jumbled. Hey, 313 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: I feel myself getting overwhelmed. Give me a second. I'm 314 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: gonna reply, and I want to continue to have this conversation, 315 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,159 Speaker 1: but I just need a second. And you can do 316 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: that in the conversation and it can be like a minute, 317 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: or you can just like, hey, I'm gonna go walk 318 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: outside and take a couple of breasts and then come 319 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: back in. I say a lot of times in my 320 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: conversations that are difficult, and it doesn't even have to 321 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: be one where where I'm disagreeing with somebody, but just 322 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: difficult conversations because I have really had to learn how 323 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: to slow myself down sometimes because I can just go 324 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: at it I try to be very slow to respond, 325 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: and I let the person know like, hey, I'm not 326 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: not responding. I'm gathering my thoughts before I say something, 327 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: because I want to make sure I'm saying what I 328 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: want to say. Says another little thing you can do. Okay, 329 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: So I know this was a shorter episode. However, I 330 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: also think this can be a really helpful episode for 331 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: the majority of people out there, because we are all 332 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: going to have a disagreement with somebody at some point 333 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: in our lives, and why wouldn't we want to be 334 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: able to do that well, So I, like I said, 335 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: encourage you to take this as a practice. How can 336 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: I get better at having these conversations versus? How can 337 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: I be perfect at disagreeing because that it does not exist? 338 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: And just be really kind to yourself as you practice 339 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: new ways to communicate in a way that is going 340 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: to work better for you in the long run. If 341 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: you would like to follow the podcast, if you would 342 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: like to follow me, you can do that at You 343 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast on Instagram, and you can also follow 344 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: my therapy practice at three Quarts Therapy on Instagram. If 345 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: you have any questions, feedback, thoughts that you want to share, 346 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: you can email me Katherine kat Hrym at you Need 347 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: Therapy podcast dot com And if you have not done 348 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: so yet and maybe you're a new listener, I would 349 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: love love, love, love love in the season of giving 350 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: and holiday cheer. If you guys would rate and review 351 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: this podcast specifically on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, you can 352 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: do that. Spotify's at the top, Apple it is probably 353 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: more towards the bottom. If you want to leave a 354 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: kind little comment what you like, some constructive feedback if 355 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: you feel necessary. I also am very open to that 356 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: kind of stuff through email as well. If you want 357 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: to share something that you liked or something that didn't 358 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: sit well, or just some feedback in general, you can 359 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: always do that. Always open to it because I always 360 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: want to learn and grow, just how the people listening 361 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: to this podcast usually are listening because they also want 362 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: to learn and grow. So until Wednesday, when I come 363 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: back for couch Talks, I hope you guys have the 364 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: day you need to have and I will talk to 365 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: you soon.