1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app. 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 2: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 3: New details on House Republicans plan to raise the debt 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 3: ceiling and enact cuts to spending, Bloomberg reporting that leaders 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 3: are planning a vote next week on both. Congressman Kevin 8 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 3: Hearn telling Bloomberg the debt ceiling increase would be about 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 3: two trillion dollars and as we told you, would lift 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 3: the limit to May of twenty twenty four, smack dab 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: in the throes of a presidential election cycle, Speaker McCarthy 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 3: laid out the broad contours of the debt limit build 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 3: of the rank and file this morning, along with plans 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 3: to cut discretionary spending by one hundred and thirty billion 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 3: dollars roughly. He touched on a lot of these top 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 3: lines in his speech yesterday at the NYSE. 17 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 4: Our legislation accomplishes the same goal by returning the federal 18 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 4: government to twenty twenty two levels and then limit the 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 4: growth of spending over the next ten years to one percent. 20 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 4: Of annual growth. Now, don't believe anyone who tells you 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 4: these are draconian limits. Think about it. They're the same 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 4: spending levels we had just four months ago, just last October, 23 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 4: last seven months. 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 3: Seven months. But who's counting. And of course he's calling 25 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 3: on Joe Biden to sit down and talk. Hasn't that 26 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 3: a meeting, he says, since the first of February. Remember 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: that we talked about it here on sound on And 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: of course Joe Biden, will you know his refrain, he 29 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 3: repeated it yesterday. 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 5: Of course I was speaking. 31 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: He show me his budget, that all expressions, show me 32 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: your budget. You know, we agreed early. 33 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 5: On I'd lay down a budget, which I did in 34 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 5: March nine, and he'd laid down on budget. 35 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 6: I don't know what we're negotiating if I don't know what 36 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 6: they want. 37 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 3: Back in town yesterday, back on the Senate floor, of 38 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 3: the Minority Leader Mitch McConnell doesn't see it the same way. 39 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 5: President Biden does not get the stick his fingers in 40 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 5: his ears and refused to listen, talk, or negotiate. And 41 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 5: the America, the American people know that the White House 42 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 5: needs to stop wasting time and start negotiating with the 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 5: Speaker of the House. 44 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: You know who's been through this process a couple of 45 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 3: times is Douglas whole Seekin And I'm glad to say 46 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 3: he's with us now, the president of the American Action 47 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 3: Forum Policy Institute, with in fact, has some new polling 48 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: on all of this, the conservative think tank former director 49 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: as well of the Congressional Budget Office. So, Douglas, I'm 50 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 3: sure this is interesting for you to watch. Last time 51 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 3: we talked about it, we were in nowhere land. We're 52 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 3: starting to fill in some of the blanks here, and 53 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: we do expect a more complete plan from House Republicans 54 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: later on today. Just for starters here, how important is 55 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 3: it for Kevin McCarthy to have two hundred and eighteen 56 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 3: votes to be able to pass this budget so the 57 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: White House will engage him. 58 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 6: Well, I think it's crucial that he be able to 59 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 6: pass legislation out of the House with two hundred and 60 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 6: eighteen votes, and they'll all be Republican votes. He's not 61 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 6: gonna be any Democratic support. But it does not see 62 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 6: a complete budget. It has to be a debt dealing 63 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 6: increase and then whatever specifics they want that increase to 64 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 6: carry and you know, he laid those out in the 65 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 6: clip that you played, some slower growth and discretionary spending. 66 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 6: He also talked about some energy provisions, some regulatory controls, 67 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 6: the Rains Act, things like that. So they have to 68 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 6: coalesce and they have to lay down a market that 69 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 6: says this is what we want and this is what 70 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 6: we can pass. And if they do that, you know, 71 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 6: it goes over to the Senate. At that point, it's 72 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 6: impossible for the White House not to engage and give 73 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 6: the majority leader in the sense, some guidance about how 74 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 6: they should modify the legislation and and then there's really 75 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 6: going to be a serious negotiation. And so then we've 76 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 6: just seeing them steering each other from their respective corners. 77 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 6: There's been no real progress. 78 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And of course at that point there could 79 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: be and hopefully will be a deal that Douglas. But 80 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 3: that's exactly what this new majority is and this new 81 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 3: speaker said they wouldn't do right. This was going to 82 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: be the return to regular order, and I guess we'll 83 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: try again next year. 84 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 6: Well, we certainly are not seeing the House passive Budger resolution, 85 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 6: the Senate pass Budge resolution. The House still says it's 86 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 6: going to the cenate budge community has no intention to. 87 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 6: They're holding hearings on climate change. So we're a long 88 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 6: way from regular order, that's for sure. 89 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: It still a long way. The American Action Network did 90 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 3: some research on this and interesting the methodology. You can 91 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 3: tell me more about it, but you surveyed Americans in 92 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 3: eighty seven battleground congressional districts where Joe Biden won by 93 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 3: an average of five points in twenty twenty to get 94 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: a sense of where public sentiment is on all of this, 95 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: and is pointed out here, there's overwhelming majority support among 96 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 3: battleground voters for proposed savings here in exchange for raising 97 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 3: the debt ceiling. It sounds to me in that case, Douglas, 98 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 3: that these two will be tied regardless of the president's wishes. 99 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 6: Well, first of disclaimer, this isn't actually my polling, it's 100 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 6: our SISTO organization. But I've seen it and it's really interesting. 101 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 6: Taking a face value, all of the things that the 102 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 6: Secret talks about, yes say, are things the American public wants. 103 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 6: They want some better spending controls, they want the dead 104 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 6: limit to go up, and they want there to be 105 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 6: serious negotiations to get the debt limit up, and the 106 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 6: police says that if it fails to happen, they will 107 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 6: blame the president. I think that was real news and 108 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 6: certainly something the White House ought to think hard about. 109 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 3: Well indeed, I mean, we can pick through some of 110 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: this stuff here, but this is exactly what Kevin McCarthy 111 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: was hoping for, I suspect, and what the President was 112 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 3: concerned about. Despite the history of raising the debt ceiling 113 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: under the Trump administration and a clean bill, it's looking 114 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 3: like that's not possible here based on the politics of 115 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 3: the day. Douglas, do you agree. 116 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 6: I would agree with that, And people have said this, 117 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 6: you know, people who are informed but not necessarily the 118 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 6: sneakert ass have been saying for months clean deatlimit increase 119 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 6: is just not in the cards. And it's also not 120 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 6: unusual to have some sort of controls attached to a 121 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 6: delimit increase. That's a very common occurrence in the United States. 122 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 6: So to somehow suggest that this is outside of the norm, 123 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 6: I think is really misleading. 124 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, so talk to me about the cuts that are 125 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: proposed here. One hundred and thirty billion dollars. This has 126 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 3: been floating around for a while. Bring it back to 127 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 3: spending levels from last year, essentially from twenty twenty two, 128 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: and Kevin McCarthy has actually been fairly compelling. I mean, 129 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 3: if you think back seven months, do you do you 130 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 3: think that you cannot actually live under those spending levels? 131 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 3: Is the question? How difficult though, will it be to 132 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 3: exact those cuts in negotiations. 133 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 6: I think it'll be very difficult. The Democrats have no 134 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 6: interest as the White House in the Senate, and you know, 135 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 6: any built race in the deadloment has to pass the 136 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 6: Senate be signed by the President. So this is not 137 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 6: going to be the storting position, that's for sure. And 138 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 6: I'll just point out for those listeners that this is 139 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 6: discretionary spending. This is the annual appropriations that Congress does. 140 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 6: That's about a third of the budget. At this one 141 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 6: percent of it is the big. 142 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: Because everything else is off the table. 143 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: Limits. 144 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, they're all off limits. So if wildly successful, Speaker 145 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 6: McCarthy will put a tiny, tiny dent in the fiscal 146 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 6: problem and we'll be back to have this conversation again. 147 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 3: You say Democrats, but you could say there are a 148 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: number of Republicans in the caucus who would be tough 149 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: to convince on this one as well. Douglas, the Speaker 150 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 3: McCarthy doesn't exactly have control of his entire membership here, 151 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: and everybody's got a vested interest. When you start talking 152 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 3: about programs on an individual level, that's when the opinions 153 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 3: start to change. 154 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 6: Absolutely. These kinds of proposals are great in the abstract 155 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 6: and difficult to pass in the specifics, and they'll be 156 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 6: harder for Republicans this year than in many years because 157 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 6: one of the little news noticed features of the Republican 158 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 6: takeover the House is they won seats in New York State, California, 159 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 6: big blue states that no one expected them to win. 160 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 6: Those are very much endangered congressman and congressmen at this 161 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 6: point because you know, they're going to have a tough 162 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 6: reelect to begin with, and if they have to sign 163 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 6: off on something that looks draconi into their district, it's 164 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 6: going to be a tough vote. 165 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: And if these cuts are not as deep as many 166 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 3: Republicans wanted, particularly those who challenged Speaker McCarthy's gavel when 167 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 3: when at the beginning of this session, you know, look, 168 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 3: they were talking a couple of months ago, Douglas about 169 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 3: a motion to vacate that this actually could be the 170 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: end of Speaker McCarthy's career if he takes a wrong 171 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: step here. Do you do you feel that way still 172 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: or no? 173 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 6: Absolutely? You know that one of the things they demanded 174 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 6: was that you could have one person make a motion 175 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 6: to vacate the chair and that so that that threat 176 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 6: is looming over the speaker every day, and it certainly 177 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 6: has to influence what votes he chooses to take to 178 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 6: the floor, and it will influence how he takes this vote. 179 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 6: So you know, if they do things to modify the 180 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 6: sort of moderate Republicans concerns, they may very well lose 181 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 6: votes at the other end of the spectrum, and he 182 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 6: may very well endangerous job. So it's a tight rope, 183 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 6: so we have to walk here. 184 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 3: Well, it sure is. There was some research today a 185 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 3: noteubt from Goldman Sachs pointing to what could be an 186 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 3: earlier than expected X date And we could be middle 187 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: or back half of June versus July or August based 188 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 3: on the numbers that they're looking at. And we have 189 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: to wait for tax returns, of course to come in 190 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 3: and have a real sense of where we are. But 191 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 3: if tax returns are running below expectations Douglas, and that 192 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 3: is the case, this window is going to be closing 193 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: very quickly. They really have a matter of weeks to 194 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: figure this out, right. 195 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, they essentially have no time. Even if we get 196 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 6: a real strong tax yield, we'll find out starting tomorrow. 197 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 6: Since today's the last day, you know that buys yous 198 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,599 Speaker 6: in time you get a strolane in June's fifteenth that 199 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 6: by this time, by you till August. I mean you've 200 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 6: seen the commerce in action for years now to August, 201 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 6: they're not going to get a lot done. It takes 202 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 6: forever to get things done. So they need to start 203 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 6: negotiating right now. 204 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: So what's realistic though? I mean, you've been through this 205 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 3: from the perspective the Congressional Budget Office, and they don't 206 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 3: like waiting around and having things show up late. Here 207 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 3: knowing that that's the case, and we have a recess 208 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 3: where they've got a couple of weeks coming up here, 209 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 3: they'll be back in town for a while, and they're 210 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 3: gone in August, when does this really need to be finished? 211 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 6: I think the plan for the House to vote next 212 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 6: week on something that was sketched out to the Republican 213 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 6: in Macaucus this morning. Gets the timetable about right. Assuming 214 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 6: that passes, and that's a big assumption, as we just discussed, 215 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 6: but assume that they can get something that everyone can 216 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 6: coalesce around the eighteen. Then the marker's been laid down 217 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 6: and there's only really one deal then to be struck. 218 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 6: What can the Senate pass that the President will saw 219 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 6: in And you know they need to sit down and 220 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 6: figure that out. Those are old hands at this that's 221 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 6: President Biden, Majority Leader Schumer, and Jordi Leader McConnell. They've 222 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 6: all been through this this movie many times. 223 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: They need to. 224 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 6: Figure out what the deal is. And then comes the 225 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 6: interesting part. They'll pass it. They'll go back to the 226 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 6: House and with the President sitting they're waiting to sign. 227 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 6: The pressure for that past the House will be enormous. 228 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 6: It probably will, and they'll probably take some democratic cost 229 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 6: to get it done. 230 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: That's right. 231 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 3: And so when you look at the May twenty four day, Douglas, 232 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 3: does that need to move? Are we really seriously going 233 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 3: to do this again in the middle of a presidential election? 234 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 6: One would hope not. Where this is sprinksmanship run up 235 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 6: to the xt date using extraordinary measures all of that. 236 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 6: A better outcome would be for them to get a 237 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 6: bit serious about some of the genuine long term fiscal 238 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 6: problems that the budget has, make some improvements no one 239 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 6: has to solve in one sell swoop, and in that 240 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 6: legislation also extended that a lot more time and get 241 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 6: it past the life. That seems to me a sensible 242 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 6: way to go about this. 243 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,599 Speaker 3: From a voice of experience, Douglas Holtzeke and President of 244 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 3: the American Action Forum Policy Institute, Douglas, thank you. It's 245 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 3: time to assemble our panel. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzy 246 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 3: no Bloomberg Politics contributors. Ricky spent a number of years 247 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 3: working with Douglas, and I wonder if you share his 248 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 3: view on all of this. May twenty twenty four for starters, 249 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: sounds like an item that's dead on arrival. Do you 250 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 3: see it that way? 251 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, there's so much 252 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 7: that's got to get done in a very short period 253 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 7: of time. As Doug was saying, you know, there's really 254 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 7: no time like the president get this done. But the 255 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 7: other thing that you didn't mention is there are only 256 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 7: forty days left between now and Labor Day of Congressional Action, right, 257 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 7: those are the days they're working forty days until September first, 258 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 7: And so if they tend to actually get something passed 259 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 7: just to be able to meet the requirements of legis, 260 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 7: they almost have to have this bill reported out today. 261 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 7: And that's why I think you see the urgency uh 262 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 7: that's occurring because nobody wants to work weekends in the House. 263 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 3: Uh. 264 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 7: And they want their their month off in August uh 265 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 7: and and and they don't want to be criticized for 266 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 7: not getting this done before they start taking all this 267 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 7: vacation time. So uh that that's probably the most important 268 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 7: impetus to get something done, is that these members don't 269 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 7: want to be in Washington. And and by the way, 270 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 7: we don't want them in Washington. They only do damage 271 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 7: when they're here. And so the sooner they get this done, 272 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 7: the sooner they can get out and enjoy their their summer. 273 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 8: And and and and and and. 274 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 7: Put the country back on a good and strong economic footing. 275 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 7: So I think what we're seeing now is a realization 276 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 7: by leadership that they have no time to. 277 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: Spare Ginnie, I want my month off in August also, 278 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: But I don't think that's going to happen. What do 279 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 3: you make of the uh this research from the America 280 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: Can Action Network that I mentioned Genie voters opposing increasing 281 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 3: the debt ceiling without cutting government spending come in at 282 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: thirty seven percent, at fifty percent router those who support 283 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: thirty seven there seems to be full throated if you 284 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 3: believe this research, support for getting both of these done 285 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 3: it once. 286 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 9: Yeah, Well, as usual with research, you have to really look. 287 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 9: I've seen some of the questions and some of them 288 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 9: I would quibble with. I do think that they leave 289 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 9: respondents in a certain direction, but again, you'd have to 290 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 9: see the raw data on this, and all we're seeing 291 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 9: are the top lines from a conservative conservative action network. 292 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 9: But the reality of this is when you ask voters 293 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 9: should be responsible the economy absolutely what do you want 294 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 9: to cut? They have very different views on that, and 295 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 9: none of that is reflected in this poll. 296 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 3: Well that is, you put your finger on it. You 297 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: can talk about broad strokes here, but every one of 298 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 3: those Republican lawmakers in the House will have a different 299 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 3: priority when they sit down to vote as soon as 300 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 3: next week. That appears to be the case. 301 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Podcast. Catch the program live 302 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: weekdays at one Eastern. 303 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 10: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, 304 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 10: and the Bloomberg Business App. 305 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 306 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 307 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 3: The New York Times calls it a grudge match. Donald 308 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: Trump calls it a political stunt. Talking about Ron DeSantis' 309 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: engagement in the most recent throws here with Walt Disney Corporation, 310 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 3: it's getting to be a little bit difficult to follow. 311 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: But as I read in the Times, in what has 312 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: taken on the trappings of a grudge match, Governor DeSantis 313 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 3: punched Disney and you announcing new legislation that would override 314 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: the company's recent effort to sidestep state oversight of its 315 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 3: theme parks. You remember all this stuff, DeSantis outmaneuvered by Disney. 316 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 3: Now up with new legislation and a couple of ideas 317 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: to consider. 318 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 11: Now people are like, well, there's what should we do 319 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 11: with this land? 320 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 12: And so you know, it's like okay, I mean people 321 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 12: have said, you know, maybe have another maybe create a 322 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 12: state park, maybe try to do more amusement parks. Someone 323 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 12: even said like, maybe you need another state prison prison. 324 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 12: I mean, I just think that the possibilities are endless, 325 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 12: and so that is now going to be analyzed to 326 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 12: see what would make the most sense. 327 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 3: All this goes back to Disney taking a stand. If 328 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: you remember all of this on the Don't Say Gay Bill. 329 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 3: They've been sparring for more than a year over this 330 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 3: tax district that encompasses Disney World twenty five thousand acres 331 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: south of Orlando, employees seventy five thousand people and attracts 332 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: fifty million visitors a year. That district goes back to 333 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven. And Bob Iger, who's back in charge 334 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 3: the chief executive, has characterized Ronda Santis as anti business 335 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: and anti Florida. And that's now what we're hearing as 336 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: well from Donald Trump, who truths d Sanctus is being 337 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: absolutely destroyed by Disney. His original PR plan fizzled, so 338 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: now he's going back with a new one in order 339 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 3: to save face. He goes on to write that Disney 340 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 3: could announce a slow withdrawal or sale of certain properties 341 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 3: would be a killer. He says it's a political stunt. 342 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 3: Ron should work on the squatter mess. We reassemble our 343 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: panel with Rick Davis and Jeanie Shan say, no, Geanie, 344 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 3: this is just a story that's apparently not going away. 345 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 3: But as we see a Republican going head to head 346 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 3: with a private corporation like this, it does make one 347 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 3: wonder if that is consistent with conservative values because I'm 348 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: pretty sure that wouldn't be in most worlds. What do 349 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 3: you think? 350 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 9: Yeah, And that's what we heard former Governor Christie saying, 351 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 9: you know, Ron de Santis is not a conservative based 352 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 9: on what he's doing with Disney, and I think that's 353 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 9: you know, echoes what a lot of people feel. You know, 354 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 9: he made the case that you know, how can Disney 355 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 9: sneak up on you? Can we have faith in a 356 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,239 Speaker 9: president potential president who who Bob Iger you know, is 357 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 9: able to get around what do you do when you're 358 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 9: sitting across from g Or Putin. This is not a 359 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 9: good look for Ron DeSantis. 360 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 11: And you know, I applaud you reading the truth social. 361 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 9: Joe Matthew as always and keeping up. 362 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 11: I sell you're keeping up. 363 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 9: I seldom agree with Donald Trump, but this is a 364 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 9: political stunt. It's unnecessary. It has gone awry and it 365 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 9: is hurting Ron de Santis at the moment. You know, 366 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 9: there's a lot of time to go. 367 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 11: But this is not what he was. 368 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 9: You know, the look he wants to have before he 369 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 9: goes out and announces he's going to run so all around. 370 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 9: The mouth has really won the day here over Ronda 371 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 9: Santis so far. 372 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 3: Rick, I don't suppose the prison idea is real. He 373 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 3: was kind of blue sky in there getting a laugh, 374 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 3: getting a sound cut, and god knows we grabbed it. 375 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 3: But there's a lot more where this came from, in fact, 376 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 3: real stuff. Two weeks ago, he floated the idea of 377 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 3: hiking taxes on Disney hotels, imposing tolls on roads that 378 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 3: lead to its theme parks. He's asked for an investigation 379 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: by Florida's Chief Inspector General into Disney's efforts to circumvent 380 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 3: his authority, and Jimmy Petronis, who works for Ronda Santis 381 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 3: and does finances for the state, was on Fox this 382 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 3: morning saying that Ron de Santis is owning Disney right now. 383 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 13: Listen, If I'm Bob Iiger, I am workworking around the 384 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 13: clock to try to figure out how to make amends 385 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 13: with Ronda sants just like bud Light should be working 386 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 13: around the clock to go kiss Kid Rock's ass. 387 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 3: This is a problem needs to be addressed. It is wide. 388 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 3: Oh we can get to the bud Light thing in 389 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 3: a minute here, Rick, But this is runs against any 390 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 3: sort of conservative thought, any conservative theory. To go up 391 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 3: against a private enterprise, doesn't it. 392 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 7: Well, Look, I mean, if a private enterprise is not 393 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 7: paying his fair share and taxes, is not serving the 394 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 7: community in a way that is considered you know, healthy, 395 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 7: then sure you go after them. I sincerely doubt that 396 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 7: that's the Disney problem, right, And so it is conservative 397 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 7: to keep brains on business and ensure that there's a 398 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 7: public interest involved in what they're doing. But I think 399 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 7: this goes in a much different direction. It's not about conservatism. 400 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 7: It's this new strain of you know, anti wokeism that 401 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 7: doesn't really have a fitting inside a conservative movement in general. Right, 402 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 7: you know, it encompasses so many different cultural issues of 403 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 7: our time. It's it's kind of wedge politics on steroids. 404 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 7: And in this case, as is the case between both 405 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 7: Disney and and as you mentioned, bud Light, it's the 406 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 7: application of this anti woke strategy that puts Republicans against 407 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 7: the corporate community. And the one thing I keep hearing 408 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 7: over and over from my friends and politics and on 409 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 7: Capitol Hill right now is if this is what he's 410 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 7: going to do to Disney, is Governor, what in the 411 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 7: world should we expect if this guy's actually the president 412 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 7: of the United States, uh and and using all the 413 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 7: power that the country has against issues related to climate 414 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 7: or culture or you know, gender. I mean like there's 415 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 7: a there's a whole different set of issues that he's 416 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 7: putting that the Governor DeSantis is putting on the table 417 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,959 Speaker 7: politically that heretofore haven't been in the forefront of national politics. 418 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 3: Well, the bud Light thing is curious to me, by 419 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,199 Speaker 3: the way, Jimmy Patron is the chief financial officer of 420 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 3: Florida making that reference here, Genie, it's it does seem 421 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 3: to be a bit of a trend here. And Ron 422 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 3: DeSantis actually weighed in on this on another program. He 423 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: was asked about the bud Light boycott. If you haven't 424 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 3: heard about this, you've been living under a rock. There's 425 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 3: a there's a trans influencer I call it that who 426 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 3: bud Light made a special care package for it, put 427 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 3: her picture on a bud Light can. That's when Kid 428 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: Rock and others started blowing up bud Light cans on 429 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 3: social media, literally shooting at cans. And Ron DeSantis calls 430 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 3: the whole effort righteous. 431 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 14: That's like them rubbing our faces in it. 432 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 12: And it's like these companies that do this, if they 433 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 12: never have any response, they're just gonna keep doing it. 434 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 12: So if you as a consumer, are like, yeah, they're 435 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 12: basically and I mean it's such a fraud with what 436 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 12: they're doing with that, Like, yeah, they're doing that, but 437 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 12: I'm just gonna keep drinking it anyways, Well then they're 438 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 12: just gonna keep doing it. So I think we have 439 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 12: power as consumers to make our voice her somebody, not 440 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 12: on every company, because sometimes conservative consumers aren't gonna make 441 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 12: a dent in some companies. This one is one. 442 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 3: If you don't have. 443 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 12: Conservative beer drinkers, you're gonna feel that. And so, you know, 444 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 12: I think it's a righteous I think it's a righteous thing. 445 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 3: Again in this case, Rick anti conservative or is he 446 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 3: simply trying to out trump Trump? 447 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think there's a lot of out trumping Trump here. 448 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 7: I mean they find the ideological wisdom in this and 449 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 7: you can't. There's there's this is not an ideological issue. 450 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 7: This is this is someone who doesn't like advertising, you know, 451 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 7: And so if you don't like advertising in the company, 452 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 7: you have every option to do whatever you want. It's 453 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 7: nothing has changed in two hundred years when it comes 454 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 7: to consumers choosing their beverage of choice in this case. 455 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 7: And and but the idea that somehow this is going 456 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 7: to become overnight a conservative firebrand. I mean, you know, 457 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 7: the Internet gives rise to these things. When you start 458 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 7: blowing up beer cans, won't be the first time I've 459 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 7: seen a beer can blowing up on the Internet. As 460 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 7: much as that's entertaining, it's a bad use of beer. 461 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 7: I'd rather consume it blow it up. But the company 462 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 7: knows that, and they react the way they want to. 463 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 7: And and that's how markets work. 464 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 3: That comment was on The Benny Show, by the way, Genie, 465 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 3: and he said that he won't drink but light anymore himself. 466 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 3: That is, he and his wife preferred Guinness. How's that 467 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 3: going to go over with Middle America. 468 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 9: Well, you know, that is his prerogative, that's his wife's prerogative. 469 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 9: As consumers, we all can choose to follow brands and 470 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 9: enjoy being beer whatever it is. But the reality is, 471 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 9: here is the governor of one of the largest dates 472 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 9: in the country using the power of the state against 473 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 9: one of the tax paying companies in his state because 474 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 9: they weren't supportive of a bill that was passed in 475 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 9: his state. 476 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 11: And when this company and his CEO was able. 477 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 9: To outsmart him, he gets upset and says he's going to, 478 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 9: you know, set up a jail near where they're located. 479 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 11: I mean, it is absurd, and I'm not sure what he. 480 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 9: Is doing, because the reality is, this is not the 481 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 9: issue that is going to win you the general election 482 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 9: for the presidency in the United States, people don't care 483 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 9: this much about these issues. They care about the economy, 484 00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 9: care about climate, care about crime. 485 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 11: He should focus on those. 486 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 9: And I have to say again, Donald Trump is right 487 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 9: housing as well, deal with the big issues that matter. 488 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 9: I'm not sure where he is going with this. He's 489 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 9: trying to win a Republican primary, but his winning strategy 490 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 9: was he's electable in a general election. I'm sorry, He's 491 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 9: no more electable in a general right now than Donald Trump, 492 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 9: maybe less so. So I think he's really hurting himself 493 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 9: at this point. 494 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 3: Well, it's not going away at least this standoff anytime soon. 495 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 3: As we read on the terminal. Shortly after Ron de 496 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: sant Is threatened to build the prison next door to Disney, 497 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 3: Disney publicized what will be Disneyland's first official LGBTQ event 498 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 3: for Pride Month. 499 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 500 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 501 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. 502 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 2: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 503 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 3: You know, we spent so much time on the debt 504 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 3: ceiling lately, the budget process as well, it's hard to 505 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 3: remember what else Congress is working on him. Well, that's 506 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 3: where Bloomberg Government. Zach Cohen's reporting comes in handy here. 507 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 3: As he writes lawmakers trying to make progress on legislation 508 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 3: addressing freight rail accidents, transgender athletes, firefighter assistance, and war 509 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 3: powers authorization, all in a quickly closing window of time. 510 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 3: Zach joins us before we bring the panel in on 511 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 3: some of these, Zach, and any of these get done 512 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 3: before Congress breaks in late June. 513 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 15: Yeah, certainly the House Republicans are going to be advancing 514 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 15: this bill of regardings transgend or athletes. It doesn't face 515 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 15: any chance of passing in the Democratic Health Senate, and 516 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 15: there'll be some other partisan bills as well, But on 517 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 15: bipartisan issues, there's definitely some issues. I was talking with 518 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 15: Senator jd Vance, the Republican from Ohio, earlier today. Now 519 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 15: he thinks as many as fifteen Republicans are going to 520 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 15: sign on to this new legislation that would impose new 521 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 15: regulations on freight rail after the crash at He's palastine 522 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 15: in other places in Ohio that caused this toxic chemical 523 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 15: fumes to be released, and so we could definitely see 524 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 15: that market its way through Congress. I think the Commerce 525 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 15: Committee is expected to mark it up in the next 526 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 15: couple of weeks here, and so there are definitely some 527 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 15: things that Congress would like to get done over these 528 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 15: next couple of months, especially before the debt ceialing fight 529 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 15: sort of reaches a fever pitch here. House Republicans are 530 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 15: saying that they're going to vote next week on their 531 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 15: sort of initial ask to the Biden administration on what 532 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 15: a debt ceiling height could look like, paired with certain 533 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 15: spending cuts, and as we reach the X dates, so 534 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 15: to speak, sometimes this summer, when the US government is 535 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 15: not going to be able to pay its debts, that's 536 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 15: going to sort of increase the temperature here. 537 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 3: We talked quite a bit a few weeks ago about 538 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 3: the authorization for the use of military force in Iraq. 539 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 3: The Senate managed to knock that down, as was the 540 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 3: hope of Senator Chuck Schumer. Will the House do the same? 541 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 15: They might. There's definitely some biperson interest there as well. 542 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 15: It passed pretty handily over here in the Senate, and 543 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 15: the House could do so as well. I believe House 544 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 15: Foreign Affairs Chairman Michael McCall has expressing interest in it. 545 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 15: Obviously would be relevant to this conversation, but I think 546 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 15: has also talked about including some measures that would change 547 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 15: the two thousand and one Authorization of military force basically 548 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 15: underpins the quote unquote war on Terror, and that's obviously 549 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 15: a much more complicated debate, and so if they try 550 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 15: to add that to something that very narrowly tackles the 551 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 15: Iraq wars, that could pose trouble, especially in the Senate. 552 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 15: But if they pass a very narrow bill that tackles 553 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 15: the Iraq Wars, then certainly it could make its way 554 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 15: to Biden's desk for its expected signature. 555 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: So the idea here is get everything you can done 556 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 3: before you have to address the debt ceiling, because after 557 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 3: that the store is closed. Is that right, Zach? 558 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 15: I mean, it's just going to get harder and harder, 559 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 15: especially once you know, tempers flare and lawmakers only have 560 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 15: a certain amount of bandwidth to think about issues other 561 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 15: than what's immediately before them. And then after the debt 562 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 15: limit is handled, at least hopefully if the you know, 563 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 15: for the economy's sake, they're going to have to pivot 564 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 15: to really other important issues, things like general opreations bills. 565 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 15: Government funding runs out September thirty at the annual government 566 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 15: funding bills, the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization Act that 567 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 15: sets military policy for the next year, that has to 568 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 15: pass by the end of the year. There's a farm 569 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 15: bill that they want to pass, you know, billions of 570 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 15: dollars in food stamps and agriculture subsidies that they need 571 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 15: to get done for the next five years, and that 572 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 15: expires sometime this fall. And so there's a number of 573 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 15: these bigger packages that they need to turn to and 574 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 15: then sure enough it's twenty twenty four and lawmakers will 575 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 15: be more interested in campaigning back at home rather than 576 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 15: sitting here at Washington. 577 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 3: What a perfect snapshot, Zach, Thank you, thanks for joining us. 578 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 3: Zach Cohen Bloomberg Government find the story. Congress faces long 579 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 3: post recess to do list led by debt limit on 580 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 3: the terminal. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano are here, And 581 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 3: I wonder, Rick, if this sounds realistic to you at all? 582 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 3: And even if all of this did get done before 583 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 3: the debt limit, is that all for the session this 584 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 3: time around? 585 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 7: Yeah, Look, it's going to be it's going to be 586 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 7: a non productive session. You look at what's not happened 587 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 7: the Senate so far. Combination of a very slow start 588 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 7: and then people like Mitch McConnell and Diane Feinstein, you know, 589 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 7: being out for medical reasons is frozen them up. Now 590 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 7: they can make progress while the House contemplates the debt limit. 591 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 7: They're not really in that game, as Mitch McConnell declared 592 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 7: yesterday very ferociously, that that's the problem for the Speaker 593 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 7: and the Biden administration. So they'll come in late and 594 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 7: probably be the broker on a deal. But there's a 595 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 7: lot they can do. And I think the point that 596 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 7: was made about JD. Vance and fifteen other Republicans coming 597 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 7: together regulate railing Street it shows you that the spirit 598 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 7: of bipartisanship still exists in the United States Senate. They 599 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 7: passed a lot of legislation last year in a bipartisan fashion, 600 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 7: and it sounds like they're on the right track to 601 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 7: continue to do that this year. How that then works 602 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 7: its way through the House is anybody's gap. 603 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 11: That's a minefield. 604 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 7: But yeah, I think there'll be some progress on some 605 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 7: important issues, you know, between now and Labor Day. 606 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 3: Rick mentions DII FI as we've been referring to it 607 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 3: inside the Beltway here Diane Feinstein, Genie, this is a 608 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 3: pretty big deal as Joe Biden has a backlog of 609 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 3: judicial nominees that he wants to see action on, wants 610 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 3: to see confirmations in the Senate, but her not being 611 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 3: available and now apparently an effort to replace her on 612 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 3: the Judiciary Committee getting zero Republican support means that that 613 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 3: may be all Joe Biden gets. How do you see it? 614 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 9: It is very tough for Democrats. They of course want 615 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 9: to be respectable to Senator Feinstein. She is something of 616 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 9: a legend in the Senate. There have been, you know, 617 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 9: cries from people like Nancy Pelosi that there's a bit 618 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 9: of sexism at play here because men have been out 619 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 9: sick and there hasn't been talk of replacing them. But 620 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 9: the political reality, and we heard this from Senator Clobisher 621 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 9: over the weekend, is she can stay out if they 622 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 9: can try to replace on the Judiciary Committee, which probably 623 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 9: is a non starter at this point, but if we 624 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 9: get to the debt ceiling, they're gonna need her back, 625 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 9: so they really may have to, you know, take some 626 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 9: action on this. It's a very tough thing. This is 627 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 9: where you hope her family would be able to step in, 628 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 9: but very very tough because of course she is a 629 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 9: legend in this town. You know, I would just say 630 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 9: on things that they can do, let's look at Ukraine's 631 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 9: but Ukraine funding the farm bill, which was mentioned, banning TikTok, 632 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 9: maybe crypto, and some people say maybe even something in permitting. 633 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 9: So there are some areas where we may see some 634 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 9: bipartisan support and ability to work together. Anything confronting China 635 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 9: is probably one area, like like I said, TikTok, but 636 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 9: other areas where we may see them able to come together. 637 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 9: But it's going to be a very slow, slow session. 638 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 9: You know, if we get a debt ceiling relief, that 639 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 9: would be a great boon to the country, and we 640 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 9: can't ask for much more at this point. 641 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 3: Rick, we only have a minute. But the issue with 642 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 3: Senator Feinstein is a delicate one. Obviously, she's out with shingles. 643 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 3: By the way, Congressman Rocanna of California, Democrat called for 644 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 3: her resignation, and there are a few who have said 645 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,719 Speaker 3: as much. You know what it's like to deal with 646 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 3: health issues in the United States Senate. What's the right 647 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:15,479 Speaker 3: thing to do? 648 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 7: You know, look, the Democrat leadership is going to have 649 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 7: to make a call on this. You want to be 650 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 7: respectful the idea of the senator's collegiality. And she just 651 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 7: happens to sit on a very important committee that she 652 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 7: used to chair that just needs action on a regular basis. 653 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 7: I mean, you know, they're judges to get through and 654 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 7: there's no substitute for having somebody in that chair. So 655 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 7: I think they're in a buying and I think they're 656 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 7: just not going to be able to get much done 657 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 7: on It seems. 658 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: To be the case. 659 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 3: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzo our signature panel. Thanks to 660 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 3: you both on this tax day. This is Bloomberg. 661 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 662 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern. 663 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 10: On Bloomberg Radio, tune in alf Bloomberg dot com and. 664 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 2: The Bloomberg Business app. 665 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 666 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 667 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew Washington along with Kaylee Lines. We have 668 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 3: found her straight off. Well, I guess i'd say the Hill, 669 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 3: but of course I should say TV with the Crypto 670 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 3: Show today, What a day for you to be talking 671 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 3: crypto as Gary Gensler just runs into the buzzsaw in 672 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 3: the US House. We're going to be talking about that 673 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 3: a little bit later on, but we start with this 674 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 3: dominion Fox Newscase. You read all the texts when. 675 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 16: They came out, right, Oh yeah, how could you not? 676 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 3: Dana Perino describing the theory that Donald Trump won the 677 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 3: election in twenty twenty total bs is her quotes insane 678 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 3: and nonsense. Sean Hannity sent a text message at the 679 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 3: time saying, the architect of this whole conspiracy theory, Sidney Powell, 680 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:06,439 Speaker 3: was a I'll be careful here, a lunatic. Hm later 681 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 3: testified he did not believe it for one second. These 682 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,760 Speaker 3: are what makes this case different than most defamation trials, 683 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 3: where the bar is very hard, very high. I should say, 684 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 3: to prove this thing, They've got actual proof here in 685 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 3: emails and texts that really change the contours of this case. 686 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 16: Yeah, but I guess it's a question of the burden 687 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 16: of proof on malicious intent that really ultimately is what 688 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 16: dominion has to prove here, because even the judge in 689 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 16: this trial has already said, you know, there was that 690 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 16: this did happen. It's not in dispute that Fox was 691 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 16: out there spewing information that it knew wasn't necessarily crue 692 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 16: it's about the intent of it. Did they recklessly disregard 693 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 16: the truth as dominion alleges or as Fox says, they 694 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 16: weren't defaming anyone, and this is a salt on press freedom. 695 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 16: I guess it's a very high bar still to clear, 696 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 16: and this in theory could have broader implications for the 697 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 16: media landscape through. 698 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 3: We begin with Amy Guide, professor of Law, Tulane University 699 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 3: Law School, expert and defamation law and author of the 700 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 3: book Seek and Hide, The Tangled History of the Right 701 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 3: to Privacy. Amy, We've got a lot of questions for you, 702 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 3: But in this case, is the bar actually set a 703 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 3: bit lower by this unique breadth of evidence? 704 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 14: So that's a really wonderful question, Joe. 705 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 17: And part of what's really interesting about the case is 706 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 17: that very early on the court basically decided that none 707 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 17: of the statements, it was crystal clear that none of 708 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,760 Speaker 17: the statements relating to the plain if about the election 709 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 17: were true, and so therefore that's taken off the table 710 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 17: to some extent. 711 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,439 Speaker 14: Really, now the focus is. 712 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 17: Whether or not the defendants in the case then acted 713 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 17: with actual malice when they said what they said. So, 714 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 17: in other words, as Kaylee suggested, did they speak with 715 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 17: knowing falsity or with reckless disregard as to falsity? And 716 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 17: generally that's a really high bar to match. And so 717 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 17: the question here is going to be what evidence then 718 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 17: will prove that the people had knowing falsity, either said 719 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 17: the information knowing it was false, or acted with reckless 720 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 17: disregard with regard to the information, in other words, relied 721 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 17: on some bad sources or otherwise. 722 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 14: That's really what this trial is all about. 723 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 16: But Joe was just talking about the text. I mean, 724 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 16: given the evidence that we already know about Amy, how 725 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 16: do you realistically think Dominion's case is at proving that 726 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 16: that there was malice there? 727 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 14: Well? 728 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 17: One of the one of the intriguing things is that 729 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 17: if a case is easy enough, generally doesn't even go 730 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 17: to trial. 731 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 16: So we would have seen a settlement already. 732 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 14: Yeah, you know that sort of thing. That's my sense. 733 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 17: And certainly here when the judge had a look at it, 734 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 17: the judge had the ability to decide the issue on 735 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 17: summary judgment perhaps, and the judge decided not to do that. 736 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 17: So there's stuff there that could lead a reasonable juror 737 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 17: it seems to decide that, you know, maybe there isn't 738 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 17: knowing falsity or with reckless disregard as to falsity, or 739 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 17: maybe it's just the judge thought, you know, this is 740 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 17: such an important case with regard to speech, I want 741 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 17: to give it to the jury to decide to make 742 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 17: it make it clean. 743 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 11: Amy. 744 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 3: What does it tell you that this jury was seated 745 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 3: so quickly, some predicted that this would be an extended 746 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 3: and very messy affair, trying to get people to say 747 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 3: whether they're Fox viewers or consider themselves maga or liberals. 748 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 3: They've got twelve and twelve we're ready to. 749 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 17: Go, yesnderstand it. The Delaware courts can do that sometimes. 750 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 17: In other words, many times, the question is, you know, 751 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 17: do you watch Fox News? Well, can you be unbiased 752 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 17: in hearing the evidence? If the answer is that yes, 753 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 17: they watch Fox News, but they could be unbiased and 754 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 17: they're believed, then the court will will seek that person. 755 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 17: So there's a lot that happens behind the scenes as 756 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 17: well with regard to jury selection. 757 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 16: Well, and ultimately what this jury decides Amy could have 758 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 16: major implications not just for Fox or for Dominion, but 759 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 16: as Fox is trying to make the case that this 760 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 16: is an assault on press freedom, it does really raise 761 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 16: questions about what the press can and cannot do in America. 762 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 16: How is this outcome likely to affect other journalists, other networks? 763 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 16: And I understand that Joe and I are journalists on 764 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 16: a radio network at the moment, so there are implications 765 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 16: us as well. 766 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 17: Sure, that's right, I mean, what likely will happen is 767 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 17: that the losing side will file an appeal or the 768 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 17: trial court will will make some sort of decision of law, 769 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 17: and that decision will be published it goes up on appeal, 770 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 17: that decision will then be published. At that point, then 771 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 17: there will be precedent for other courts to follow. What 772 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 17: I think is interesting in this case is that it 773 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 17: does suggest that New York Times versus Sullivan protections for 774 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 17: journalists are eroding to some extent. And it wasn't that 775 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 17: journalists always won these sorts of cases. Certainly some actual 776 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 17: malice cases were heard previously. But what's intriguing to me 777 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 17: is that many of the many times these used to 778 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 17: be slam dunks for journalists if actual malice was such 779 00:40:55,160 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 17: a very high bar. And now, of course, if the 780 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 17: jury decides that that Fox is liable, and if that 781 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 17: is then upheld on appeal, that will tell other courts 782 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 17: how or tell other plaintiffs how to prove actual malice 783 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,919 Speaker 17: to the satisfaction of an appellate court in that jurisdiction 784 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 17: and perhaps throughout the United States. So anytime a court says, yeah, 785 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 17: this evidence proves actual malice, this is enough to suggest 786 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 17: that actual malice existed in that case. When a court 787 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 17: says that, then plaintiff's attorneys and certainly media defense attorneys, 788 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 17: sit up, take notice and better understand than how we 789 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 17: define those those strange terms like reckless disregard and such. 790 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 3: Obviously, Professor Dominion is in this to win it, or 791 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 3: we might not have gotten this far. But I wonder 792 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 3: if you see sort of moral victory in just getting 793 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 3: the big names, the big personalities from Fox, to get 794 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 3: them on the stand, to get that out in the public, 795 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 3: to see Tucker Cralson questioned about this with his texts, 796 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 3: you know, up on a screen. Is that a win 797 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 3: in itself for Dominion. 798 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 14: Yeah. 799 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 17: And I think it's intriguing too to think about the 800 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 17: way that can inform the general public about defamation and 801 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 17: this idea that if the information is false and you 802 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 17: know it's false, or you're acted, you've acted with disregard 803 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 17: as to the falsity, that in fact that sort of 804 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 17: speech is not necessarily going to be protected, despite the 805 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 17: fact that we have the First Amendment. So I do 806 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,320 Speaker 17: think that it's it's intriguing on the level that you suggest, 807 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 17: but also this idea that maybe the public itself will 808 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 17: better understand defamation and misinformation and the possibility of liability. 809 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 14: I mean, it's deeply. 810 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 17: Trup because publishers now will also better understand that it 811 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 17: might be killed by that idea. But public interest in this, 812 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 17: I think is perhaps going to be deeply educational. 813 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 16: Well, I'm glad you brought up the misinformation point, Amy, 814 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 16: because in part of what Dominion is arguing here is 815 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,480 Speaker 16: the reputational damage that people no longer trust it's voting machines, 816 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 16: that election officials are starting to cancel their contracts with 817 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 16: Dominion as a result of this. So when Dominion is 818 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 16: asking for you know, one point six billion dollars in damages, 819 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 16: I guess it just kind of raises a question of 820 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 16: how you put a dollar figure on that, Like, is 821 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 16: there anything else that Dominion could glean if this ultimately 822 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 16: is ruled their way. 823 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,479 Speaker 17: Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how much they get 824 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,439 Speaker 17: from the case if in fact it goes it goes 825 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,839 Speaker 17: Dominion's way. It's anytime you have a case like this 826 00:43:55,080 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 17: that where so much money is at stake, where reputations 827 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 17: are arguably harmed, that's just a classic sort of defamation claim. 828 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 17: That's the sort of defamation claim we've had from the 829 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 17: very beginning of the United States this idea when someone 830 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 17: tells a falsehood or sometimes the truth about us, that 831 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,400 Speaker 17: we can bring a defamation claim because our reputations have 832 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 17: been harmed. So very classic classic defamation case here. 833 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 3: You know, back in February, Professor, when all the texts emerged, 834 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,360 Speaker 3: Dominion actually filed a motion for summary judgment asking the 835 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 3: judge to grant victory to the company on its defamation 836 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 3: claims without a trial, based on the strength of the evidence. 837 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 3: What does that tell you now that it is gone 838 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 3: to trial, now it is going to trial, about the 839 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,840 Speaker 3: way that evidence might be handled? 840 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 17: Yeah, I mean, I think that what's going on here 841 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 17: is that the court is aware of testimony that a 842 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:04,720 Speaker 17: reasonable juror who decide both ways, that a reasonable jury 843 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,920 Speaker 17: could take the information and decide it in favor of 844 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 17: one party or the other, generally on a motion for 845 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 17: summary judgment if it's clear, especially in a case that 846 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 17: isn't so First Amendment relevant like this one, is, a 847 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 17: judge would then decide the case without sitting a jury, 848 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 17: because no reasonable jury could decide it any other way, 849 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 17: but that a certain party won. 850 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 3: Yet here we are Tucker Cralson said Kaylee in one 851 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 3: of these texts about Sidney Powell that she was a 852 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:45,800 Speaker 3: quote unguided missile and dangerous as hell. The filing also 853 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 3: includes that he said privately, quote Sydney Powell is lying 854 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:55,239 Speaker 3: unquote about having evidence for election fraud. That's pretty cut 855 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 3: and dry, professor. 856 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 17: Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what what 857 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 17: the suggestion is on the other side. Again, we don't 858 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,399 Speaker 17: really know what that's going to look like. I look 859 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 17: forward to seeing this as well. And sometimes an important 860 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,280 Speaker 17: thing to mention here is that if a case continues 861 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,879 Speaker 17: and if it's clear to the judge who should win 862 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 17: the case that a reasonable jury, even after all this testimony, 863 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 17: that a reasonable jury could decide it only one way, well, 864 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,800 Speaker 17: then the judge will take the case from the jury 865 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,760 Speaker 17: at that point and decide the case himself or herself. 866 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,239 Speaker 14: So we'll have to keep an eye on that as well. 867 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 17: Unlikely again in a first Amendment case, simply because in 868 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,760 Speaker 17: my experience, judges don't like to don't like to become 869 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 17: that key a part of the ultimate decision. But we'll 870 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 17: have to see what happens here. 871 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:51,839 Speaker 14: Well. 872 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,239 Speaker 16: I guess there's also a question of whether or not 873 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 16: we ultimately do get to a decision, because just because 874 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,520 Speaker 16: they haven't settled yet doesn't mean that in theory they 875 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 16: can't do that at any point in this process, right. 876 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 14: Amy, That's exactly right. 877 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,360 Speaker 17: In fact, I remember one time when I was a lawyer, 878 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 17: I mean practicing law, and the jury was out, and 879 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 17: even at that point, the plaintiffs were attempting to settle 880 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,160 Speaker 17: with us. So it can happen at any moment in 881 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 17: a trial, certainly, and sometimes the pressure, of course, the 882 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 17: pressure of the trial itself is enough to cause the 883 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 17: parties to settle. Just this recognition. Sometimes how the jury appears, 884 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 17: who the members of the jury are. That sort of 885 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 17: situation can also lead to to settlement, you know, agreeing 886 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 17: to settlement on a party that from the party that's 887 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:48,640 Speaker 17: holding out. 888 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 3: So Amy, before you became professor of law Tulane, you 889 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 3: were a practicing lawyer and before that a journalist. I understand. 890 00:47:58,600 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 14: Yeah, that's right. 891 00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,759 Speaker 3: Which is the least what's less popular? My goodness, you've 892 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 3: done You've done them both. Which is a more feted 893 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 3: profession journalism or or or the job of a lawyer. 894 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 17: Well, I mean your point is a you know, your 895 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,239 Speaker 17: point is a is a really important one, especially in 896 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:22,879 Speaker 17: UH in a time when journalism is having great economic difficulty, 897 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 17: as you suggest, when the public doesn't trust journalism UH 898 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 17: and journalists much anymore. 899 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 18: UH. 900 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 17: Again, it's it's deeply troubling to think about, uh that 901 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,359 Speaker 17: the chilling effect that these sorts of defamation claims can 902 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 17: ultimately have. No matter what side you're on here, certainly 903 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 17: a decision can have an effect on journalists in that way. 904 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 14: So so troubling, troubling in that sense. 905 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 3: Many thanks to you, Professor Amy Guida, Professor of Law 906 00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,320 Speaker 3: at Tulane University, seek and hide the tangled his of 907 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 3: the right to privacy. This is Bloomberg. 908 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 909 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,600 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 910 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,320 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app. 911 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,839 Speaker 2: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 912 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,279 Speaker 3: Funday to be chair of the SEC. And by that 913 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 3: I mean it's not. Gary Gensler on Capitol Hill today 914 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 3: testifying before a House committee that was split between Republicans 915 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,480 Speaker 3: and Democrats who have very different feelings apparently about the 916 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 3: way the SEC works and specifically about the way it's 917 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,319 Speaker 3: been handling crypto. Kayleie, this is your Bailey wick as 918 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,719 Speaker 3: co host of the Crypto Show here on Bloomberg. You 919 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 3: actually were up there for this hearing talk to a 920 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,040 Speaker 3: bunch of members. We keep hearing Whack a Mole as 921 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 3: the way people describe his approach here to crypto and 922 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,239 Speaker 3: the incredible cost that crypto firms have to swallow if 923 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,480 Speaker 3: they want to come see us and register as they 924 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 3: as he. 925 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,960 Speaker 16: Likes to say, well, yeah, there's a huge question of 926 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 16: whether or not they actually can come right. And you 927 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 16: actually had a letter from the Republicans on the House 928 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:06,240 Speaker 16: Financial Services Committee, led by Chairman Patrick Henry two Gensler 929 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 16: published today talking about how that is misleading because there 930 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 16: is no process through which these companies so the Register 931 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,560 Speaker 16: can come in and register right exactly. So it's a 932 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 16: question of the jockeying we're seeing back and forth between 933 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:22,200 Speaker 16: the SEC and largely House Republicans. What I hear so 934 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 16: often from the industry is this idea of regulating by enforcement, 935 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,920 Speaker 16: that there's not actually new rules being set out, you're 936 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,480 Speaker 16: just having targeted at specific entities in the crypto space. 937 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,359 Speaker 16: A spate of enforcement actions or wells notices to say 938 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 16: you know an enforcement action is coming, and that's generally 939 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,399 Speaker 16: how it's gone so far. You have to question, though, Joe, 940 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 16: how much fault really does lie with Congress, because to 941 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 16: this point they have not set any rules of the 942 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,399 Speaker 16: road as to what the sec versus the CFTC should 943 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 16: ultimately have jurisdiction over. 944 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 3: So a couple of points of interest here, let's hear 945 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,759 Speaker 3: from the chair Patrick McHenry, who showed up with a 946 00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 3: real agenda, not a fan clearly of Gary Gensler's, specifically 947 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:01,400 Speaker 3: when it comes to crypto. 948 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 18: I know your leadership this Here's Exchange Commission has brought 949 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,560 Speaker 18: nearly fifty separate enforcement actions against digital asset firms, and 950 00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,680 Speaker 18: now your agency is requesting an additional seventy eight million dollars 951 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,160 Speaker 18: to expand your enforcement agenda. At the same time, you've 952 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,879 Speaker 18: refused to provide clarity on whether digital assets offered as 953 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 18: part of an investment contract or subject to securities laws, 954 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 18: and more importantly, how these firms should comply with those laws. 955 00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,960 Speaker 3: Now that by the way, that was like those were 956 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,240 Speaker 3: prepared remarks. They really got into it over a couple 957 00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,440 Speaker 3: of things in terms of defining what crypto is what 958 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,719 Speaker 3: the coins are. But you talk to a Democrat, Richie 959 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 3: Torres of New York, who also had questions about the 960 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,080 Speaker 3: way they're handling crypto. 961 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 16: Huh, yeah he did, He said, he doesn't really have 962 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,319 Speaker 16: He has questions about how effective Gunsler has actually been 963 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 16: in regulating the space, pointing to FTX and how that 964 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 16: was able to fall through the cracks and ultimately have 965 00:51:55,360 --> 00:52:00,759 Speaker 16: this disastrous collapse of a very large exchange. The question though, 966 00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,240 Speaker 16: of what you alluded to with what Chairman McHenry was asking. 967 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 16: He was asking Gary Gounsler is either a commodity or 968 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,319 Speaker 16: a security and Gensler was not answering, And so much 969 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 16: of this, Joe really does come down to these definitions, 970 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,520 Speaker 16: because the Securities and Exchange Commission has control over the securities, 971 00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 16: not over commodities. And until you kind of make that delineation, 972 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 16: Gary Gunsler's just trying to say everything's a security. 973 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,160 Speaker 3: Essentially, here's a taste. 974 00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:27,440 Speaker 18: How would you categorize either? 975 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 19: Then, ether, I think that the general sweep of what 976 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 19: Congress did not just in the thirties, but as a menda. 977 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,279 Speaker 18: I'm asking you're sending your chair now to make an 978 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,960 Speaker 18: assessment under the laws as exists. Is Ether a commodity 979 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:43,040 Speaker 18: or a security? 980 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 19: Without speaking to any one. 981 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,279 Speaker 18: I know you've repeatedly said you to speak to one, 982 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,239 Speaker 18: except you've spoken to one Bitcoin. So I'm asking you 983 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,280 Speaker 18: to speak to a second one, the second largest market 984 00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:56,080 Speaker 18: cap here. 985 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,240 Speaker 19: And speaking to the tokens, there's ten to twelve thousand. 986 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,200 Speaker 19: If there's a group of entrepreneurs and I'm asking about 987 00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 19: one is anticipating a profit based on the I'm asking. 988 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,800 Speaker 18: A specific question, Cheerginsler. I said this in private. This 989 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,480 Speaker 18: should be no shock to you. I'm asking this question, 990 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,760 Speaker 18: is it an is Ether a commodity or security? 991 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,160 Speaker 19: And again it depends on the facts and the law. 992 00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,080 Speaker 19: And if there's a group of it, I'm asking about 993 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 19: the facts and the law. 994 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,479 Speaker 3: Sitting in this aoson for minutes, I mean I could 995 00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,480 Speaker 3: just this. He never Basically his answer was both YEA 996 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,359 Speaker 3: or neither. I'm not going to answer. This is why 997 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 3: we wanted to talk to Tom Gorman, partner at Dorsey 998 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,960 Speaker 3: and Whitney, author of the blog sec actions dot com, 999 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,440 Speaker 3: and formal practicing attorney at the SEC. Tom, would you 1000 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,239 Speaker 3: have a prepared Chairman Genzler in a different way here, 1001 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,719 Speaker 3: maybe show up with with a dictionary, or at least 1002 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 3: the actual definition of what we're talking about. 1003 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,040 Speaker 8: No, I thank you for having me, Joe and Kayley. 1004 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,360 Speaker 8: I appreciate it. Uh, I don't. I don't think Gary 1005 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,360 Speaker 8: needed a dictionary today. I think the I think the 1006 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,000 Speaker 8: definitions of what constant as a commodity and what constitutions 1007 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,880 Speaker 8: of security that are getting used in these cases are 1008 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,520 Speaker 8: well known to all the practitioners in the area. This 1009 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,319 Speaker 8: is not a surprise. I have no sympathy for people 1010 00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 8: who say we don't know what the rules of the 1011 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 8: road are. That's simply not true. 1012 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,400 Speaker 16: Okay, but we're talking about securities laws here, Tom that 1013 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,200 Speaker 16: were written in the nineteen thirties. It's twenty twenty three, 1014 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,560 Speaker 16: and these assets have only even existed for the last, 1015 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:32,440 Speaker 16: you know, thirteen to fifteen years. So why are they applicable? 1016 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,840 Speaker 8: Because they were written so that they would be flexible 1017 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 8: to cover a variety of different types of instruments. For example, 1018 00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,360 Speaker 8: if it's a security and you're going to sell it, generally, 1019 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 8: not always, but generally, you're going to have to go 1020 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,520 Speaker 8: register it or have some sort of an exemption from registration. 1021 00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,400 Speaker 8: That's what these things are in many instances. Not the 1022 00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:02,160 Speaker 8: coin itself. People tend to confuse that a security is 1023 00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:05,760 Speaker 8: what it becomes when it gets marketed and it's marketed 1024 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,920 Speaker 8: to other people, as opposed to just a coin. If 1025 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,400 Speaker 8: you want, if I want to sell you a coin, 1026 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,719 Speaker 8: the coin, these the commodity. 1027 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,400 Speaker 16: But on the registration point, as you are a former 1028 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,239 Speaker 16: practicing attorney with the SEC, that is the line we 1029 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,359 Speaker 16: continually hear from Chairman Genzler, come in and register. Yet, 1030 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,760 Speaker 16: as House Republicans pointed out in the letter to him today, 1031 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,719 Speaker 16: that process doesn't really exist as he says he does. 1032 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,279 Speaker 16: It's a lot harder actually do in practice. Does the 1033 00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:33,720 Speaker 16: SEC need to change something? 1034 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,120 Speaker 8: I don't think they need to change anything. The registration 1035 00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 8: process has been in place for years, and the rules 1036 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,719 Speaker 8: that they're applying to these assets, in particular that the 1037 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,880 Speaker 8: crypto assets were set forth by the Supreme Court and 1038 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,760 Speaker 8: the decision that was handed down in nineteen forty six. 1039 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:59,480 Speaker 8: Since that decision came down, dozens and minimum probably hundreds 1040 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,680 Speaker 8: of lower courts have amplified on that and given it 1041 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,520 Speaker 8: much more meat to the bones, so to speak. So 1042 00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:10,200 Speaker 8: it's not like these things are a big surprise. How 1043 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,360 Speaker 8: that test works that came from the Supreme Court in 1044 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:19,200 Speaker 8: nineteen forty six. Every securities practitioner in any place knows 1045 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,879 Speaker 8: how that test works. You can look it up. It's 1046 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,880 Speaker 8: a real simple three part test. No big surprises here. 1047 00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,680 Speaker 8: These people, a lot of people who deal with crypto, 1048 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,840 Speaker 8: not everybody, but a lot of people looking at crypto 1049 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,640 Speaker 8: assets try to make up try to make up their 1050 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,160 Speaker 8: own rules. We have a white paper, we have it 1051 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:40,960 Speaker 8: attached to a blockchain and it goes on with this 1052 00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,640 Speaker 8: sort of interesting sounding lingo. But the interesting sound ingo 1053 00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 8: smart contracts, what does that mean. It's just a standard 1054 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,080 Speaker 8: form contract, but it sounds very cool. It doesn't take 1055 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,759 Speaker 8: the place of telling the public when they're putting their 1056 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,120 Speaker 8: money at risk here what to fully expect. 1057 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,239 Speaker 6: And that's the regulators. 1058 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,759 Speaker 16: I'm glad you brought up the public and kind of 1059 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,480 Speaker 16: what they do need to know, because outside of crypto, 1060 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,680 Speaker 16: the chairman also faced a lot of questions around climate disclosures. 1061 00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,719 Speaker 16: On the one hand, you have some Democrats saying that 1062 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 16: because climate is a risk that should be considered an investment, 1063 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,120 Speaker 16: companies should be disclosing this information. Then you have others 1064 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,480 Speaker 16: like Representative Bill Hezinga, who say that is totally out 1065 00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:27,040 Speaker 16: of the SEC's perview, that is overreach. Do you have 1066 00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:27,640 Speaker 16: a thought on that. 1067 00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,200 Speaker 8: Yes, I don't think that climate as a topic is 1068 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:37,000 Speaker 8: completely out of the reach of the sec The purpose 1069 00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,200 Speaker 8: of the federal securities laws to tell investors what they 1070 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,360 Speaker 8: need to know. So the classic with this is if 1071 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,440 Speaker 8: you're the chairman of a company and you're sitting there saying, more, 1072 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,280 Speaker 8: am I taking my company for five years? That's what 1073 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,160 Speaker 8: we want investors to know? And if that includes having 1074 00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,840 Speaker 8: to take into account the environment, because say, let's do 1075 00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,000 Speaker 8: something simple. 1076 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,240 Speaker 16: Okay, does Scope three specifically take it too far? 1077 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,520 Speaker 8: No, not at all, because what the proposals that are 1078 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,320 Speaker 8: out there and they're still being worked on by the staff, 1079 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,880 Speaker 8: are just basically tell us what you do, tell us 1080 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,680 Speaker 8: what's going on. And then there's a second set that says, basically, 1081 00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,040 Speaker 8: if you do do like ESG that's sort of thing, 1082 00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:22,360 Speaker 8: tell us about it. 1083 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:23,600 Speaker 6: We'd like to learn about it. 1084 00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:26,320 Speaker 8: That's what they're doing there, and that's fair. If the 1085 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,000 Speaker 8: companies are taking this into consideration in the material way 1086 00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,440 Speaker 8: when they're valuing and spending your money, that makes the 1087 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,120 Speaker 8: company stock go up and down and makes the company 1088 00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 8: products better, you as an investor should get to know 1089 00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,600 Speaker 8: that that's what the securities laws are about. 1090 00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,320 Speaker 16: Just quickly, though, if it applies to all public companies 1091 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,760 Speaker 16: in their entire supply chain, doesn't this risk ultimately squeezing 1092 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,200 Speaker 16: out small players at the end of that supply chain 1093 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,920 Speaker 16: because it makes it harder for companies to disclose that 1094 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:55,880 Speaker 16: particular information. 1095 00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,880 Speaker 8: No, there's nothing harder about disclosing the information. My kool 1096 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,600 Speaker 8: aid stand example is really good. If you're a kool 1097 00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,560 Speaker 8: Aid stand, you want to know if it's going to 1098 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,880 Speaker 8: rain tomorrow, because you're probably not going to go out 1099 00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,840 Speaker 8: and sell right now. I'm going to well and it's 1100 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,440 Speaker 8: going to be hot and dry. You're gonna know why 1101 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,280 Speaker 8: I need more kool aid because more people are going 1102 00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,200 Speaker 8: to come and buy this stuff from me. So the 1103 00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,040 Speaker 8: the environment makes a difference to businesses. 1104 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,200 Speaker 16: All right, I'm officially thirsty Joe. Tom Corman, partner at 1105 00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,040 Speaker 16: Dorsey and Whitney and former practicing attorney at the SEC 1106 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:30,919 Speaker 16: Thank you, Thanks Tom so much. 1107 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the 1108 00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,520 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern. 1109 00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,959 Speaker 10: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com. 1110 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,560 Speaker 1: And the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live 1111 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,360 Speaker 1: on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 1112 00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,600 Speaker 2: Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 1113 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,800 Speaker 3: Happy Tax Day. We've actually been looking forward to it, 1114 00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,920 Speaker 3: I guess in a weird sense this time around, because 1115 00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,160 Speaker 3: we're trying to figure out when the X date is, 1116 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:00,720 Speaker 3: and you know you have to wait for the tax 1117 01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 3: returns to figure out how much money you have and 1118 01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,080 Speaker 3: know when you're gonna bump into the debt ceiling. The 1119 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:09,800 Speaker 3: question of when the US will default will come into 1120 01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,200 Speaker 3: focus this week. We need a couple of days here 1121 01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,520 Speaker 3: for the dust to settle, the guys, the Green visors 1122 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,400 Speaker 3: to do their math. The Treasury reveals exactly how big 1123 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:23,760 Speaker 3: it's tax haul is likely to be. IRS Commissioner Danny 1124 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:29,160 Speaker 3: Wirfel talking about this season, a big one, he says, 1125 01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:30,120 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three. 1126 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,360 Speaker 4: And please to report the IRIS delivered a solid twenty 1127 01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:34,680 Speaker 4: twenty three filing season. 1128 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,960 Speaker 6: By any measure. So far, the IRS has delivered. 1129 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,640 Speaker 15: More than sixty nine million. 1130 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,600 Speaker 4: Tax front tax refunds worth almost two hundred billion to taxpayers. 1131 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:47,920 Speaker 3: All right, there we go with Remember the backlog we 1132 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,120 Speaker 3: talked about during that whole debate over the eighty seven 1133 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:54,000 Speaker 3: thousand irs agents and the need for more funding for 1134 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:55,840 Speaker 3: this decrepit agency. 1135 01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,000 Speaker 6: Again, were we are fully caught up, we have we 1136 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:00,400 Speaker 6: have zero backloge. 1137 01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,800 Speaker 3: Zero backlog. That's a headline. Now, hopefully I'm not the 1138 01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:07,040 Speaker 3: first to tell you that today is tax day. Time 1139 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,440 Speaker 3: to pay up, and it's late this year. This is 1140 01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,440 Speaker 3: the eighteenth, of course, because well, April fifteenth fell on 1141 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,760 Speaker 3: the weekend, would typically push tax day to Monday, unless 1142 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:20,480 Speaker 3: that's a federal holiday, and yesterday was Emancipation Day observed 1143 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,080 Speaker 3: here in Washington, d C. So they pushed it back 1144 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:27,480 Speaker 3: another day, April eighteenth. That's now, So no excuses, unless, 1145 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:32,080 Speaker 3: of course, you have an excuse, you know, get an extension. 1146 01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:37,080 Speaker 3: In the meantime, though, the rest of us got to 1147 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,280 Speaker 3: write a check send it to Washington otherwise they'll come 1148 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:47,480 Speaker 3: and find you. Thanks for listening to the Sound On podcast. 1149 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,720 Speaker 3: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 1150 01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,200 Speaker 3: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. And you can 1151 01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,240 Speaker 3: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one 1152 01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 3: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.