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Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy.

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Speaker 2: The one that is I think causing more harm than

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Speaker 2: good is this thing called the outlet. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's knockoff ones, but it's this thing you

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Speaker 2: put around a baby's ankle and it monitors heart rate.

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Speaker 2: And the amount of false positives on these devices is

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Speaker 2: through the roof, and so you know, people are checking

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Speaker 2: the heart rate all the time, and if you think

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Speaker 2: way back to our evolutionary environment, no one's like checking

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Speaker 2: the pulse of a baby twenty four seven, Like, we

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Speaker 2: don't actually need this information, and it causes more distress

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Speaker 2: than good. I started to realize that not being an

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Speaker 2: expert isn't a liability, it's a real gift.

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Speaker 1: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point

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Speaker 1: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 1: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 1: really live.

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Speaker 3: There's a wisdom at death's door.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was insane.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I didn't know what to do because there

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Speaker 3: was no internet.

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Speaker 4: Oh know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything is hard. Hey, y'all,

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Speaker 4: my name is Kat. I'm a human first and a

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Speaker 4: licensed therapist second. And right now I'm inviting you into

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Speaker 4: conversations that I hope encourage you to become more curious

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Speaker 4: and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the world around you.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to You Need Therapy.

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Speaker 4: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You

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Speaker 4: Need Therapy podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is kat.

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Speaker 4: I am the host. And quick reminder before we get

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Speaker 4: into today's stuff that although this podcast is hosted by

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Speaker 4: a therapist, and you actually have two therapists with you today,

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Speaker 4: which is really special, this podcast does not serve as

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Speaker 4: a replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However,

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Speaker 4: we always hope that this space can help you wherever

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Speaker 4: you are now or maybe sometime in the future. And

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Speaker 4: like I said, we have two therapists today. You have

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Speaker 4: me and and we have the newest Three Chords Therapy

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Speaker 4: therapist with us, Bridget Welcome.

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Speaker 1: Hello, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 4: Of course, I invited her on today for a couple

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Speaker 4: of reasons. I wanted you guys to get to know

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Speaker 4: her like you've gotten to know the other Chords of

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Speaker 4: Three Chords Therapy. And also because when I announced her

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Speaker 4: being a part of our team, I also shared with

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Speaker 4: everybody that she brings a unique or a different or

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Speaker 4: a special area of expertise that encompasses a lot of

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Speaker 4: stuff that I am not super familiar with, and I

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Speaker 4: thought it would be interesting to y'all because we've never

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Speaker 4: really talked about it on here.

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Speaker 1: And that is perinatal mental health.

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Speaker 4: And if you're wondering what is that, don't worry. We're

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Speaker 4: going to explain it from top to bottom. And if

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Speaker 4: you have any thoughts, questions, anything that you hear that

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Speaker 4: you're like, I don't really understand that. Also, now that

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Speaker 4: you can send in questions if there's simple questions you

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Speaker 4: just want some clarity on something to Catherinet you need

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Speaker 4: Therapy podcast dot com and we can have Bridget on

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Speaker 4: whenever to answer a couch Talks question. So if there's

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Speaker 4: something that you hear that you're like, I want to

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Speaker 4: know more, you don't have to be in the dark,

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Speaker 4: send in those questions and we'll get to them. So

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Speaker 4: before we get into all of the juice, will you

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Speaker 4: give like a synopsis of like how did you get

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Speaker 4: into this specialty field?

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Speaker 1: Yees, not even the field of therapy, but like right, periandal.

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Speaker 2: Right, So looking back now, it's like crazy to say this,

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Speaker 2: but I have been babysitting infants since I was thirteen

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Speaker 2: years old, which like, if you picture a thirteen year

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Speaker 2: old like rock in a two week old in their arms,

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Speaker 2: it's it's a shocking image, but it worked. So I

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Speaker 2: had been around babies and pregnant woman for over a decade.

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Speaker 2: And when I was in my last year of grad

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Speaker 2: school and I was looking for an internship, the therapy

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Speaker 2: practice that I was interviewing with was just starting this

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Speaker 2: new maternal men health program and they were kind of

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Speaker 2: asking me questions about it. Would I be interested in it,

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Speaker 2: And at the time, I was still babysitting because I

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Speaker 2: babysat throughout grad school and I had been watching infants.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yes, this actually sounds perfect. So I

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Speaker 2: kind of learned about what they were looking for and

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Speaker 2: we both felt it would be a really good fit.

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Speaker 2: And then basically before I started seeing clients, I did

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Speaker 2: this like specialized training and maternal mental health. Part of

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Speaker 2: it was paranatal moon anxiety disorders or p MADS, and

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Speaker 2: then some was paranadal grief and loss. But I think

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Speaker 2: we'll focus more on the p MADS today. But that's

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Speaker 2: kind of how I got into it, and then as

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Speaker 2: I started seeing clients, I just adore this population, like

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Speaker 2: love it so much, clicked with them so well, and

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Speaker 2: I also just find it very special to be a

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Speaker 2: part of this, you know, extremely special, magical, but also

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Speaker 2: really difficult time in women's lives where a lot of

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Speaker 2: the focus is like how's the baby, is, the baby's leaving,

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Speaker 2: how's the baby and not as much focus is given

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Speaker 2: to the parents. So I just absolutely fell in love

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Speaker 2: with this population and really enjoy working with them, and

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Speaker 2: that's kind of how I ended up here.

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Speaker 4: So if you heard part of that is that she

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Speaker 4: did specialized training and then you have experience of working

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Speaker 4: with that population. I think we've talked before about how

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Speaker 4: when you go to grad school, you go to school

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Speaker 4: to become a therapist, you are trained and very generalize things,

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Speaker 4: and then it's almost like I'm not comparing us to doctors,

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Speaker 4: but you know how like, yeah, the internship is that's

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Speaker 4: where you go to really learn and you develop into

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Speaker 4: the type of therapists you're going to be. And so

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Speaker 4: that early experiences, it's so formative, and that is in

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Speaker 4: this population, and so that's where a lot of like

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Speaker 4: your brain space and where your brain goes.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk later about why.

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Speaker 4: Being trained and seeing a therapist in this specialty is important.

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Speaker 4: But she's not just some He was like, this is interesting.

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Speaker 4: I read a book on it, like you've been in

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Speaker 4: the weeks of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so what is it? Can we start there? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So just kind of want to start with defining peri natal.

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Speaker 2: So peri natal is actually just a time frame. So

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Speaker 2: paranonal encompasses anywhere from trying to get pregnant to a

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Speaker 2: year postpartum. Some people say up to two year postpartum,

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Speaker 2: but a lot of the research is done on a

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Speaker 2: year postpartum, so I kind of stick to that. So

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Speaker 2: p MADS that stands for paranatal mood and anxiety disorders.

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Speaker 2: And something that is so great about this time in

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Speaker 2: our society is there's a lot more awareness about postpartum depression.

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Speaker 2: But that's only one of like five of the most common.

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Speaker 2: One in five people can develop a p MAD, So

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Speaker 2: if you're pregnant or gave birth, Yeah, it is a lot,

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Speaker 2: it really is. And there are some risk factors like,

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Speaker 2: for instance, if you've had a history of a depressive episode,

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Speaker 2: history of an anxiety episode, you're more likely to get

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Speaker 2: depression or anxiety. But a big big factor is marital strain,

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Speaker 2: living in poverty.

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Speaker 3: That's a really big one.

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Speaker 2: If you're a teenager who's pregnant, about half of teenagers

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Speaker 2: develop a p MAD, So those are the biggest factors.

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Speaker 2: Also if a partner has substance abuse or if they

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Speaker 2: have depression themselves. There's actually a really big correlation between

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Speaker 2: paternal and maternal mental health. So as you know, a

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Speaker 2: lot of times it kind of works in both directions,

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Speaker 2: where like oftentimes, you know, this is really specific to

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Speaker 2: a heterosexual relationship, but you know it works in any

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Speaker 2: relationship where oftentimes the woman can almost be a therapist

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Speaker 2: to their partner. You know, they take on a lot

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Speaker 2: of their issues, they talk about all those things. So

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Speaker 2: if their partner has depression anxiety, they're really getting a

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Speaker 2: lot of that. But it actually works in both directions.

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Speaker 2: So I kind of like to say p mads and dads.

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Speaker 2: So p mads and dads. If the woman has depression,

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Speaker 2: it's about a fifty percent chance that the father will

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Speaker 2: get depression as well. So it's pretty highly correlated. Some

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Speaker 2: of the more common p mads, the first one would

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Speaker 2: be depression, so we know a lot about postpartum depression.

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Speaker 2: A lot of things that come up there are global

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Speaker 2: negative thoughts about the self as they.

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Speaker 3: Relate to being a parent.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, thoughts like I'm the worst mom ever,

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Speaker 2: I never should have had this baby, my family would

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Speaker 2: be better off without me.

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Speaker 3: Something that's really important here is one.

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Speaker 2: Of the leading causes of death in the first year

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Speaker 2: postpartum is suicide, and risk for suicide is quite high

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Speaker 2: in the year after giving birth. So that's something that's

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Speaker 2: really important, and it's really important to specifically ask, you know,

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Speaker 2: are you having those thoughts, because a lot of women,

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Speaker 2: you know, suffer in isolation with those.

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Speaker 1: So much. Yeah, because it's like we shouldn't.

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Speaker 4: I should be happy, this should be the best time

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Speaker 4: in my life. I should be obsessed with my kid.

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Speaker 1: I should be happy, yeah heaven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's it's just not realistic, and you know,

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Speaker 2: that's something we'll probably get into later. But these unrealistic

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Speaker 2: portrayals on media of what it's like postpartum can have

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Speaker 2: a lot of people compare.

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Speaker 3: In to spair.

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Speaker 1: Why am I not like that? Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So that puts a lot of unrealistic pressures on new

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Speaker 2: parents that I think.

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Speaker 3: Leads to a lot of those those feelings.

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Speaker 2: The second most common perinatal moon anxiety disorder is generalized

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Speaker 2: anxiety disorder. This really commonly comes with depression, but it

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Speaker 2: can be seen without it. So this is about in

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Speaker 2: seven to ten percent of perinatal people. So the main

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Speaker 2: thing with generalized anxiety disorder and the perinatal population is

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Speaker 2: just worry, worry, worry. Did what I ate affect the baby?

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Speaker 2: Did the baby put this in their mouth? And did

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Speaker 2: they get germs? And just constant worry. Is the baby

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Speaker 2: sleeping enough, are they eating enough? Just so much worry

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Speaker 2: related to the baby, and it often negatively impacts the

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Speaker 2: parent's ability to sleep, and sometimes it can really impact functioning.

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Speaker 1: So what we see in god.

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Speaker 2: Which is what we call general as anxiety disorder in

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Speaker 2: or out of pregnancy, is a lot of physical manifestations

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Speaker 2: so easily fatigued, a lot of pains and tension, and

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Speaker 2: that easily fatiguing can make it harder to do our

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Speaker 2: daily tasks. And then you put on top of that,

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Speaker 2: you're getting up in the middle of the night with

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Speaker 2: a baby. That can really impact functioning. That one is

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Speaker 2: extremely common and not as much.

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Speaker 4: Talked about I don't know if this fits, but I'm

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Speaker 4: thinking about if I'm so worried about making sure the

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Speaker 4: baby's okay and I'm doing the right thing and I'm

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Speaker 4: feeding them the right I'm out. And I mean, there's,

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Speaker 4: like you said, there's so many readings right now to

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Speaker 4: develop anxiety around doing the right thing or not doing

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Speaker 4: the wrong thing because of all the depictions of what

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Speaker 4: his writers and Rhym's out there.

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Speaker 1: But if I'm spending so much.

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Speaker 4: Time investing and trying to be the best version or

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Speaker 4: do whatever, I am taking away the ability for me

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Speaker 4: to enjoy time with my child.

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Speaker 1: No wonder, they go hand in hand.

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Speaker 4: It's like, well, I can enjoy the good parts because

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Speaker 4: I'm so hyper focused on making sure that I am

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Speaker 4: not going to hurt.

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Speaker 1: My child exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like we're only picturing worst case scenarios and

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Speaker 2: that's taking up all the brain.

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Speaker 1: Space to enjoy something exactly, not.

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Speaker 2: Really leaving that space for connection. And that's actually one

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Speaker 2: of the big things of in the normative rage versus

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Speaker 2: the non normative. You know, when is it just general worry,

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Speaker 2: when is it a p mad And one of the

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Speaker 2: big things is the ability to.

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Speaker 3: Bond with the baby.

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Speaker 2: So is this worry so pervasive that it's getting in

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Speaker 2: the way of the connection with the baby, or is

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Speaker 2: it oh wow, you know, they really did put that

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Speaker 2: shoe in their mouth. That what if I stepped in

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Speaker 2: dog booby that would.

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Speaker 1: Be so bad.

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Speaker 2: Oh whatever, I'll wash it and just hope for the best,

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Speaker 2: you know, But you can still kind of do your

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Speaker 2: daily tasks and function and connect. Where it gets in

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Speaker 2: the way of connection, that's when.

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Speaker 1: We really see and like also the of the child.

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Speaker 4: Right, So, if I'm so worried or there's so much

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Speaker 4: or if I don't have the ability because I am

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Speaker 4: suffering from depression and the symptoms that come with that,

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Speaker 4: if I don't have the ability to expose my child

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Speaker 4: to things that are beneficial for it to thrive. Like,

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Speaker 4: you know, I hear a lot of parents in and

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Speaker 4: out of my office talking about you know, spreading germs

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Speaker 4: and not wanting them, which makes sense with like all

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Speaker 4: the COVID stuff that's happened recently too. Is do I

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Speaker 4: socialize them or do I keep them away or you know,

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Speaker 4: not wanting to expose them to another parent's parenting strategy

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Speaker 4: or is the person that daycare going to do things

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Speaker 4: that I want to do that I think are best

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Speaker 4: for my child, and there's so much to think about.

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Speaker 4: And if I'm so hyper focused on, you know, making

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Speaker 4: sure everything is correct in that way, I'm keeping myself

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Speaker 4: from bonding with the child and I'm also keeping the

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Speaker 4: child from thriving.

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Speaker 2: Right right, there's a lot of inhibitory things there, and

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Speaker 2: this kind of applies to perinatal or not. But that

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Speaker 2: rigidity and things are only okay if they're this certain way.

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Speaker 2: You know, whether you're pregnant or not, that's really going

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Speaker 2: to impact how much joy you can experience in life

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Speaker 2: because it's like, yeah, if I don't want to catch

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Speaker 2: a cold, I'm never gonna see my friends or family.

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Speaker 2: So obviously, when children are young, the parents really control

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Speaker 2: what they.

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Speaker 3: Do or don't do.

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Speaker 2: And obviously some children are a little more out there

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Speaker 2: and they're going to do things whether the parents want

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Speaker 2: them to or not. But you know, if the parents

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Speaker 2: are saying, no, we're not going to the pool.

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Speaker 3: Today, the kids aren't going to the pool.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: That's where that impact of functioning and quality of life,

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Speaker 2: Like that's something I talk a lot about with clients.

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Speaker 2: Is right now, a diagnosis isn't really that important.

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Speaker 3: How's your quality of life? Yeah? How full does your

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Speaker 3: life feel?

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Speaker 2: Or how kind of myopic has it gotten?

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Speaker 4: I like that example of if I never want to

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Speaker 4: catch a cold, then I'm never going to see my

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Speaker 4: friends or family, exactly, if I never want my kid

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Speaker 4: to get in which is also I'm not a doctor,

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Speaker 4: but I do know that we have to be exposed

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Speaker 4: to certain price. But if I don't want them to

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Speaker 4: feel any pain or suffering, then I'm also stealing the

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Speaker 4: ability for them to feel and for myself as well,

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Speaker 4: to feel the joy and the excitement of this process.

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Speaker 2: Right right, Because you can't cut off only quote unquote

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Speaker 2: negative emotions.

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Speaker 4: I don't really like calling emotions negative or positive, but uncomfortable, Yes, yes, definitely.

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Speaker 1: So what's the number three?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Number three is really similar to goad. So another

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Speaker 2: thing that I've seen quite often is perinatal OCD. Something

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Speaker 2: that's so interesting about OCD and the perinatal population is

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Speaker 2: it's very common for the first episode of OCD to

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Speaker 2: occur during pregnancy. So this can be a person who's

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Speaker 2: never had OCD, never been diagnosed, never.

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Speaker 3: Really struggled with it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they have some anxiety, but never fit the diagnostic criteria.

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Speaker 2: For a they get pregnant and they have their first

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Speaker 2: episode of OCD and basically it's like then they just

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Speaker 2: have OZD. It's not like just stational diabetes where you

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Speaker 2: then give birth and it's like gone, all good.

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Speaker 1: That was craazy, you know.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's a really interesting phenomenon. So with OCD, both

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Speaker 2: perinatal and not perinatal, to meet that diagnosis, there has

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Speaker 2: to be both obsessions and compulsions. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: times people will have generalized anxiety and they think they

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Speaker 2: have OCD because they have these intrusive thoughts. So that's

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Speaker 2: really more the obsessions. And in perinatal population, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the obsessions are around the safety of the baby

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Speaker 2: and just the well being and you know, any harm

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Speaker 2: coming to the baby. Compulsions have to be.

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Speaker 3: Part of it to meet that criteria for OCD.

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Speaker 2: Very common compulsions in the perinatal population is excessive washing

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Speaker 2: and cleaning, like you know, talking about that concern for germs.

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Speaker 2: You know, if the pacifier falls on the ground, grabbing

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Speaker 2: it before the baby can get it, washing it, soaking

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Speaker 2: the toys, and bleach every day, you know, not being

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Speaker 2: able to relax because you have to clean the floors pristinely.

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Speaker 2: And another one that's even more common as the technology

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Speaker 2: gets more and more complex is checking and monitoring. So

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Speaker 2: we now have these extremely adept technology for monitoring babies,

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Speaker 2: whether it's like the nannycam, where you can see exactly

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Speaker 2: when they got up, how long they got up for,

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Speaker 2: if they made noise, if they didn't make noise, and

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Speaker 2: it's a video you can watch back all night.

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Speaker 1: It's like a really clear image you can like, and.

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Speaker 2: It's connected to your phone. You get push notifications. It's

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Speaker 2: just like you know, checking poalooza, and it really is.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy out there.

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Speaker 2: But the one that is I think causing more harm

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Speaker 2: than good is this thing called the outlet. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's knockoff ones, but it's this like thing

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Speaker 2: you put around a baby's ankle and it monitors heart

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Speaker 2: rate and the amount of false positives on these devices

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Speaker 2: is through the roof, and so you know, people are

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Speaker 2: checking the heart rate all the time, and if you

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Speaker 2: think way back to our evolutionary environment, no one's like

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Speaker 2: checking the pulse of the baby twenty four seven, Like,

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Speaker 2: we don't actually need this information, and it causes more

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Speaker 2: distress than good.

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Speaker 4: And this is something that like any mom could put

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Speaker 4: on their registry. It's not like this is made for

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Speaker 4: a child who suffers from this. No, it's like you

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Speaker 4: should get this and you'll always know your baby's heart right,

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Speaker 4: And it sends us the message. I think a lot

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Speaker 4: of like marketing and products selling, we've talked about this

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Speaker 4: a lot, is they create a problem for the consumer

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Speaker 4: and then we think we need their product to solve

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Speaker 4: the problem. But I think to your point, what you're

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Speaker 4: saying is we haven't historically been checking the poses every

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Speaker 4: ten minutes of our children. So while all of a

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Speaker 4: sudden do we feel this desire and this need. And

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Speaker 4: I think that's something for us to think about in

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Speaker 4: a lot of areas where there's this different technology. I'm

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Speaker 4: looking at my kitchen right now, so I'm thinking of

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Speaker 4: like certain things I have, and yeah, there is there

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Speaker 4: are certain things I can buy in my kitchen that

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Speaker 4: might make a process more efficient, right, you know, like

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Speaker 4: those like choppers for vegetables, which I actually I don't

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Speaker 4: really like that much because I love the process of

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Speaker 4: chopping things meditative. Yeah, However, there are other things that

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Speaker 4: I might purchase or buy, and there's no reason that I, well,

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Speaker 4: I guess the chopper w could even fall into that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have a problem before.

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Speaker 4: Exactly, I'm not in there spending seven hours a day

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Speaker 4: chopping vegetables, so I don't need this to be more efficient.

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Speaker 1: As I can't hang out.

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Speaker 2: I got chairs to chop, I got a date with

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Speaker 2: the chopping block, and I think about, like why did

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Speaker 2: I buy it?

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Speaker 1: Like why did I buy that?

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Speaker 4: It's because I was sold a message that I've been

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Speaker 4: spending too much time chopping.

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Speaker 1: Vegetables and it's not true.

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Speaker 2: And I actually will enjoy chopping vegetables.

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Speaker 4: So and so weird example, weird tangent. But it's something

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Speaker 4: just to think about because this applies to not just

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Speaker 4: people and their children and buying a baby monitor is

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Speaker 4: we don't always need the newest, in the most extreme,

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Speaker 4: in the most expansive product. Like think about the kind

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Speaker 4: of watches we have now, those have a right it

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Speaker 4: has this has that Like I have an Apple Watch

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Speaker 4: and I stopped using it because I was like, this

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Speaker 4: is too much information for me, and I just really

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Speaker 4: needed a GPS tracker.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's all I needed. I just needed to know

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Speaker 1: the distance of what I was running. I didn't even know.

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Speaker 4: I didn't need to know anything else, right, And it's

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Speaker 4: almost like there's this messaging we give ourselves by getting

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Speaker 4: the newest fancist product, Like it's like not prestigious, like

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Speaker 4: the wrong word, but it's like, oh I got the outlet?

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Speaker 1: Did you get the islet? And it's like a status

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Speaker 1: symbol almost yes.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's like is that helping you or is it

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Speaker 4: making you feel higher in status as a mom because

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Speaker 4: this mommy blogger had it, and maybe you feel more

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Speaker 4: like this blogger that you admire or something, right, But

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Speaker 4: it's actually causing you more distress than it's helping you.

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Speaker 4: And you did not have a problem that needed to

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Speaker 4: be solved exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And honestly, with a lot of these monitoring things, at

404
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Speaker 2: least for parents.

405
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Speaker 3: It's more this motivation of fear.

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Speaker 1: Like I went on that owl. Yes, I went on

407
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Speaker 1: the Alley website the other day and it was like, you.

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Speaker 2: Have the safest sleep of your baby's life.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh my god, but was the.

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Speaker 1: Baby's sleeping safe? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Exactly, like we know, you know, you put them on

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Speaker 2: their back, no pillars, pillows or blankets.

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Speaker 3: We got it.

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Speaker 1: We got it.

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Speaker 2: But that's yeah, it's interesting you say that because something

416
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Speaker 2: that's very common with compulsions and OCD is they provide

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Speaker 2: temporary relief like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, the baby's okay.

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Speaker 2: I checked, she's breathing, But in the long run, it

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Speaker 2: increases anxiety. And so it's almost this like positive feedback

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Speaker 2: loop where like, I have so much anxiety, I have

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Speaker 2: to check. But because of all this checking, our anxiety

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Speaker 2: is so high.

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Speaker 4: When when you get that relief of like oh they're okay, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you're getting dopamine released in your system, which then encourages

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Speaker 4: you to do that thing again. And I think a

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00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 4: lot of people get confused, and I think there's more

428
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Speaker 4: to it than what I'm about to explain, but people

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Speaker 4: just think dopamine is this feel good hormone in your body.

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Speaker 4: But it encourages you to repeat patterns. That's what it's doing.

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Speaker 4: It's encouraging you. It's like, Okay, that was satisfactory.

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Speaker 1: That's checking. That felt good.

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Speaker 4: So the dopamine is telling me to do that again.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I can't imagine I would. I was joking

435
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Speaker 4: earlier when you were talking about this, that this would

436
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Speaker 4: be like my new social media.

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00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be on it all day long.

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Speaker 4: If they can tell me all these different things about

439
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Speaker 4: my baby, I'd be checking out twenty four to seven.

440
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Speaker 4: It's it's like when people with eating disorders become obsessed

441
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 4: with my finis pal.

442
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: It's like that's a whole social media experience. Yes, and

443
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: we become obsessed by like, oh, putting this in there,

444
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: my goal and.

445
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 3: Did it and look at it.

446
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 1: It's like we don't actually need to.

447
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't need all of this information. And there

448
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 4: is a thing called information over load, and we're living

449
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 4: in the world of it right now.

450
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: Yes, age of information little too much. Everything in moderation,

451
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 2: including information.

452
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

453
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 2: Also, this is like kind of irrelevant. But something I

454
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 2: think is so interesting is when we become pregnant, oxytocin

455
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 2: goes up. And oxytocin is actually linked to OCD like symptoms.

456
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 2: So if you think about the infatuation stage of when

457
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 2: you're dating someone new, you're flooded with oxytocin. You're checking

458
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: their Instagram, you're checking their text, you're thinking about them NonStop.

459
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 2: So it makes sense that you know, we think about

460
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: this more. And actually ninety percent of new moms have

461
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 2: intrusive thoughts. So intrusive thoughts are extremely common, it doesn't

462
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: necessarily mean you have OCD.

463
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: With OCD, it has.

464
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,719
Speaker 2: To be matched by that compulsion. And then also it

465
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 2: has to impact functioning and cause severe.

466
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 4: Distress and impact the quality of your life. Josie and

467
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 4: I talked about this on the episode we did just

468
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 4: about OCD because oh I loved that episode, which I'm

469
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 4: glad people have access to information and they can start

470
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 4: to understand themselves. But I think as we have given information,

471
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 4: we have over emphasized how like negative for a lack

472
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 4: of a better word, there something is, and it can

473
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 4: be very normal and not unhealthy to have an intrusive thought.

474
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 4: It's when those thoughts become all consuming.

475
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: We all have intrusive thoughts.

476
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 4: Like the definition of an intrusive thought is like a

477
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: thought that you didn't want to have and you can't

478
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 4: get it to go away.

479
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: Right or it's like yikes, yeah, it's like where did

480
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: that come from?

481
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean that we had to diagnose you

482
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 4: with a mental health disorder and you have to seek

483
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 4: treatment for it. However, if it does feel like it's

484
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 4: impacting your equality of life, that's when it's like, okay,

485
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 4: well maybe this is something a little bit more and

486
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 4: we don't even have to go as far as diagnose

487
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 4: you with something, just to know that this is something

488
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 4: that you want to work on. But I think speaking

489
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 4: to that fear mongering part too is I don't ever

490
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 4: want to like fearmonger somebody into thinking that they have

491
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 4: a problem, and when really it might just be helpful

492
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 4: to hear like, oh, is this something that happens.

493
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: I'm not alone, right exactly.

494
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 2: And with intrusive thoughts, the thoughts themselves are not cause

495
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 2: for concern.

496
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 3: It's our reaction to the thoughts.

497
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: Okay, So what's very common in OCD is this belief

498
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: that if I have the thought, this is more likely

499
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 2: to happen. And so in OCD these thoughts are called

500
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: ego dystnic, and that means they're not in line with

501
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 2: the person's values, beliefs, wants, behaviors, and ego dystnic thoughts

502
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: which are intrusive thoughts in OCD do not at all

503
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: increase the risk of harm to the baby. That can

504
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: be really helpful just to know, and also that it's

505
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,959
Speaker 2: the reaction to the thoughts that we see a lot

506
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: of the distress. So ninety percent of moms having these thoughts.

507
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: Not ninety percent are like, oh my gosh, I just

508
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: thought what if I trip while I'm holding the baby

509
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 2: walking down the stairs. Now I can only go down

510
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 2: the stairs siding down on my butt like this happens.

511
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: Other people are like, whoa crazy? The just pictures falling

512
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: down the stairs. Hope that doesn't happen, right anyways, to

513
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 2: the kitchen to chop my carrots for seven hours.

514
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: They probably have the vegetable shopper to chop my character.

515
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: That was funny. Have we gotten through to five? No,

516
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: theres three? That was three.

517
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: The next one is panic disorder. This is less common.

518
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 2: This is about one to five percent of people. A

519
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: big thing of this is feeling like you're gonna die

520
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: or feeling like you're going crazy. The thing that's specific

521
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: to the perinatal population is in panic disorder. There's a

522
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 2: lot of fear of feeling out of control, and when

523
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: you're pregnant or have a baby, so.

524
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 3: Much is out of your control.

525
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: So a lot of the work there is can we

526
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 2: build tolerance to the discomfort of being out of control?

527
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: Can we build our tolerance for uncertainty for the lack

528
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 2: of control. And then the last one here is PTSD.

529
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 2: This is more common, this isn't about six to ten

530
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: percent of perinatal people, so PTSD. Thing that is required

531
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: for that diagnosis is an event that threatened the life

532
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: of the person. So in the population, this would be

533
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: of the mom or the baby. Something that's important is

534
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: that this includes.

535
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: The perceived threat.

536
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 2: So something that's sadly common is doctors being very disrespectful

537
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 2: to people who are going through birth, not listening to them,

538
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: not taking in their feelings or you know, their experience

539
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: and that feeling of out of control and that lack

540
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: of autonomy that can really cause you know, some PTSD

541
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: for people. Another thing that's common is in women who

542
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: have a history of sexual assault while they're giving birth,

543
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 2: they get these exams and so you might be lying

544
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: in the.

545
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 3: Position that the sexual assault occurred in.

546
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 2: You have this man coming in, you know, all up

547
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 2: in your business, maybe not even asking who knows, they're

548
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 2: not explaining things as they do that, yes exactly, maybe

549
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: not listening to you. That can really cause some lasting effects.

550
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: So letting these people know that was a really hard situation.

551
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 2: Maybe working on the trauma that happened before, maybe working

552
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: through the birth trauma. That can be a big part

553
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 2: of treatment.

554
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 4: You know, what's coming up for me is when you

555
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 4: said like perceived threat, I thought that was really important

556
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 4: because I've never been pregnant or try to get pregnant

557
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 4: or had a baby. But I imagine that there sometimes is

558
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: a lack of going off of what you just said explanation,

559
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 4: and it almost feels like there's especially in these days,

560
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 4: there's a lack of autonomy and a lack of choice.

561
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 4: And sometimes it doesn't have to be even in like

562
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 4: the actual process of birth that I do know that,

563
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 4: and I've heard stories from a couple of friends where

564
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 4: it feels like something happens during the delivery and you're

565
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 4: not given a choice and you don't really know what's

566
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 4: going on, and you just have to listen to this

567
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 4: person and hope that they're doing the right thing. And

568
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 4: for some people that might not affect them, but depending

569
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 4: on who you are and your experiences and what you

570
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 4: know about people and how people have treated you in

571
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 4: the past, that can be so scary, even if you

572
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 4: end up being totally okay, And that's such a vulnerable experience.

573
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 4: I mean, going to the gynecologists and getting a past

574
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 4: mirror is so vulnerable. And I've noticed recently how I

575
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: don't know the descriptive my gynecologist is. I mean, every

576
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 4: blink of an eye, she's telling me what she's doing.

577
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: And I love it because I'm like, oh, this is great,

578
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 4: Like I don't have to be surprised. But I am

579
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 4: comparing that to now experiences that the dentist or something

580
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 4: like that, where that you get a shot in your

581
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: mouth and you're like, I.

582
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: Didn't know where that was coming from.

583
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 4: And I think they do that because they don't want

584
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 4: you to be like freaking out about it, and they

585
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: think they can catch you off guard. I don't want that,

586
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 4: and I probably don't want that when you're like, I

587
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 4: mean this very compromising, vulnerable position. And maybe this depending

588
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 4: on what this pregnancy has been like, maybe depending on

589
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: what my sexual partners have been like or unchosen.

590
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: Sexual partners have been like.

591
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 4: And I think the reason I'm going on this tangent

592
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 4: here is people minimize their experiences so much where they

593
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 4: might think, well, nobody did anything to me, or yeah,

594
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 4: my doctor was a jerk, but he didn't hurt me,

595
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 4: or yeah I had to end up having to see section,

596
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 4: even though I wanted a vaginal delivery. But everything was fine,

597
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 4: and maybe I never thought I was gonna die, but

598
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 4: at one point you had no idea what was going

599
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 4: to happen. And part of me even wonders when people

600
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 4: are like, yeah, but like whatever, it's like, well, what

601
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 4: encourage you to turn off that part of your body

602
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 4: that is like, I should be allowed to know what's

603
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 4: going on. I should be allowed to be afraid right now.

604
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 4: And so the trauma could be something that you have

605
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 4: even locked up and not allowed yourself to acknowledge. And

606
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: I'm not saying this to everybody has trauma, but I'm

607
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 4: saying this because I think so many people don't get

608
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 4: the healing they deserve because they don't allow themselves to

609
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: have ever been hurt or scared or sad or traumatized

610
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 4: right right.

611
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: And that makes me think of One of my favorite

612
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: books is The Myth of Normal by doctor Gobormatte. One

613
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: of the things he talks about is the biggest predictor

614
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: of if people have, you know, a traumatic birth experience

615
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: or not, is the sense of autonomy. So he gave

616
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 2: these two examples, and one was this woman who she

617
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: had a C section, but then she wanted her next

618
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: bort to be vaginal. It's called a v back vaginal

619
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: birth after C section, and that's actually safe. A lot

620
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: of doctors think that's not safe.

621
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: I think that's a myth that a lot of people

622
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: are like, you're not allowed to do that.

623
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and a lot of doctors are like, Nope, you're

624
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 2: not allowed. And it's like, well, actually, the research shows

625
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: it's it's safe to have a vback if the situation.

626
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 3: Allows for one.

627
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: So this one really wanted a V back and the

628
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: doctor was like, no, absolutely not, We're doing a C

629
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: section no, and basically gave her no choice in the matter.

630
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: And her ob along the way was like, oh, what,

631
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: your baby's gonna be huge. You have to we have.

632
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: To induce you or do a sea section, and she's

633
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: like doing these like basically, when you have an ultrasound,

634
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: they can like guess how big the child is, but

635
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 2: they are known for being wildly off and inaccurate. And

636
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: this woman was like, well, doesn't the research show that,

637
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: you know, these growth things like aren't always that spot

638
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: on And she's like, no, your baby's massive. So then

639
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: like they don't allow her to have a vback. They

640
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 2: eventually have a sea section, and the ob who was like,

641
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: your baby's huge, she afterwards was like, oh my god,

642
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: you it's so much abdominal muscle.

643
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: It was so hard to cut through.

644
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: And the woman was like, well, you know that I've

645
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: done pilateius for twenty years. I've told you this multiple times,

646
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: Like why are you surprised that I have abdominal muscles?

647
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: And then the baby ended up being like six pounds,

648
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god, and the woman was like, that's crazy.

649
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: I thought he was gonna be humongous. And she was like, okay,

650
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: I told you that. So that woman did develop PTSD.

651
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,239
Speaker 2: Then the other story that doctor Goo Bormante gives is

652
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: this woman who really wanted to have a vaginal birth

653
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: went into labor.

654
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 3: Her doctors were really.

655
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: Kind listened to her, let her know, Hey, this thing

656
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: is going on. We've waited this long, we've really tried this,

657
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: we're worried about this. The safest thing for you and

658
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: the baby is to have a C section. Fully explain

659
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: the situation why they were doing that, gave the vaginal

660
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: birth a shot. She was like, okay, I get it.

661
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: You know I wanted this one thing, but things are

662
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: different looking back. Wonderful birth experience had only good things

663
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: to say because she felt listened to and like she

664
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: had a choice. So that sense of autonomy is a

665
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: really big peace. And it's like, yeah, you know, you

666
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: and the baby are okay, But did you feel respected?

667
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: Did you feel like you had to say? Did you

668
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: feel listened to? Did you feel valued in that moment?

669
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: Those things are really important, you.

670
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: Know, I had experienced recently.

671
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 4: I went to see a physical therapist and they got

672
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 4: out this like why do I want to say diagram

673
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: like a yeah, like a tottel as a model of

674
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 4: a body, and was explaining to me how all these

675
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 4: different muscles works and how this is connected to that

676
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 4: and when you do this thing, this happens. And it

677
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 4: was incredible and I feel like I learned more in

678
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 4: that physical therapy session talking to the physical therapists than

679
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 4: I did in like any anatomy.

680
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: Class I've ever taken.

681
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 4: And I left there and I think I said this

682
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 4: the next time I saw her, why don't I know

683
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 4: that about my body?

684
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: Like, why don't I know that that's a term?

685
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: Right?

686
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 4: Why is this the first time I'm hearing this? And

687
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 4: she was like it's a great question. Yeah, and part

688
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 4: of why she does what she does. I can only

689
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 4: speak from my experience of being a woman, but they're

690
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: so so many parts.

691
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: Of my body that are a mystery to me.

692
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 4: Oh yes, And having a professional sit down and not

693
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 4: just be like, Okay, we're gonna work on this today.

694
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 4: Move your leg, do this and stand up, bend over,

695
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 4: squeeze this muscle, like she explained every single detail of

696
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 4: why using this part of my leg is going to

697
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 4: affect this part of my body. And having the doctor

698
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 4: talk to that woman about the birthing process. I can't

699
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 4: imagine how helpful that under I want to understand.

700
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: I assume there's some people that are like, well, I

701
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: don't want to know. That's the really fine, But having

702
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: the choice to understand.

703
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: Your body feels like it's a new privilege that women

704
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,959
Speaker 4: are getting. This should be the standard. Yeah, you should

705
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 4: have a choice to understand, and then you still should

706
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 4: be able to decide what you want to do. Now

707
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 4: you're going to do something that is going to harm yourself,

708
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 4: and we think you're making that decision out of an

709
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 4: inability to make a choice for yourself.

710
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: We can intervene in that space.

711
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 4: But if somebody making a choice that I don't agree

712
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 4: with because of my own bias, that's not for me

713
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 4: to decide as a professional working with something exactly exactly.

714
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: And this makes me think of something that I highly

715
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: recommend for all the clients I work with, if it

716
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: is within their financial means, is to get a doula

717
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 2: for their birth experience. So women who work with dulas

718
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 2: have lower rates of pain, shorter labors, less use of potocin,

719
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: less people use epidural blocks.

720
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 4: I have.

721
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: I'm so pro epidural block.

722
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: Let me make that clear, and overall, just a better experience.

723
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: And this is especially true for women of color. The

724
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: death rates of black women giving birth in this country

725
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: are heinous, and most of these deaths are preventable. And

726
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: having a doula there who's there to like advocate for you.

727
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 2: They've been there, they know what's going on. They can

728
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: explain things. And you know, if the doctor's coming in

729
00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, you have to lie on your

730
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: back because you had an epidural, you know, the dula

731
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: can be like, well, actually that's not true. You know,

732
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 2: if you'd like to be on your side, you can

733
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 2: be on your side. If you'd like to be on

734
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 2: your hands and knees, you can do that as well,

735
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: and kind of giving like you said, more options and

736
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: more choice and more information. I think dulas are great,

737
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: and they work with you before the birth too, so

738
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: there's more attention and care and you know the mom

739
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: matters too, and oftentimes they'll even come after and see

740
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: how the feeding's going and see how you're doing. And

741
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: I can't recommend dula's enough. They're really great.

742
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 4: What I hear in that is having that allows you

743
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 4: to make a decision versus just like follow orders. Yeah,

744
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 4: like being told Yeah, I feel like part of me

745
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 4: is like making out doctors to be bad people. I

746
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 4: don't yeah, saying that, I sometimes you don't know the

747
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 4: questions to ask, and it's like I even said this

748
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 4: to you, I don't really have a list of questions

749
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 4: to ask you because I don't know what questions to

750
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 4: ask and we'll just see what packs out. So sometimes

751
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 4: when I'm given information, I don't even know that there

752
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 4: should be a fight a question or there could be

753
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: a follow up question, right, And that has nothing to

754
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 4: do with the doctor being good or bad. It's about

755
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 4: again going back to like we don't know these Yes.

756
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: And I learned that birthing position thing from my good

757
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: friend Emma. Shout out Emma. She's a labor and delivery nurse.

758
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: She like really advocates for her patients. She's amazing. And

759
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: I was like, wait, are you not paralyzed from the

760
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: waste out after an epidural?

761
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 3: And she was like, are you kidding me?

762
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: Does that what you think?

763
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: So there's really like, like you said, it's like we

764
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: don't know what we don't know. So having someone around

765
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: who knows the things that we didn't even think to

766
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 2: think about and then give us those choices and advocate

767
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 2: for us can go a long way.

768
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just want to touch.

769
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: Really really quickly.

770
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: This is super rare. It's called postpartum psychosis. So this

771
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 2: only happens in about one to two in one thousand women,

772
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: but it happens in about one in four women with

773
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 2: a history of bipolar and about fifty percent in women

774
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 2: with a history of bipolar and a family.

775
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 3: History of bipolar.

776
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 2: So this is a break from reality. So it's really

777
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: common to experience delusions hallucinations, and this is considered a

778
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 2: medical emergency, a psychiatric emergency because their thoughts are ego

779
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 2: syntonic and that means they are in line with their beliefs, wants, behaviors,

780
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 2: and the risk for suicide and infanticide are extremely high

781
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: in postpartum psychosis, so this like requires immediate hospitalization. And

782
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: I just kind of wanted to touch on that. Just

783
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 2: if someone has a history of bipolar schizophrenia, to talk

784
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: with a perinatal psychiatrist, talk with your ob because the

785
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: risk is pretty high of postpartum psychosis. But other than

786
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 2: you know, having that history extremely rare when.

787
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 4: That goes into you said earlier about like screening, like

788
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 4: your medical professional should be asking certain questions just to

789
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 4: know what to look for, and sometimes if they're not

790
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 4: asking that, this is giving information of advocate for yourself.

791
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,240
Speaker 1: Yes, bring this up.

792
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 4: We don't have a lot of time left, and we'll

793
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 4: obviously have you on again because there's a million things

794
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: that come up when we're talking about this, but I

795
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 4: want to hear a little bit from your perspective for

796
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 4: somebody who's listening to this and who maybe is experiencing

797
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 4: some of these or is thinking about maybe trying to

798
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 4: conceive or thinking about thinking about trying to conceive, who

799
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 4: might be this could be in this position in the future.

800
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 4: Why do you think it's helpful to seek a therapist

801
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 4: like you who is trained in this area versus just

802
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 4: seeking any therapist who could be I mean generally helpful.

803
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 2: A few things come to mind here, but in my experience,

804
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: sharing information of how normal it is to experience distress

805
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 2: and struggles and feeling alone can help so much, like

806
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: just knowing that maternal preoccupation, which is this thinking about

807
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: the baby, thinking about the safety so normal, you know,

808
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 2: parenthood is not easy. Just normalizing that distress goes a

809
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: long way. But also there's other approaches that people have

810
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: found very helpful, such as creating a postpartum care plan.

811
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 2: So this is kind of like how much sleep do

812
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: you need to function? How can you get healthy meals?

813
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: How can we.

814
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 2: Distribute the chores, what is your physical recovery going to

815
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: look like? What's your policy on visitors. We do a

816
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: lot of work of boundary setting because maybe oh, you know,

817
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: I'll let this slide, let this slide, But now that

818
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 2: like there's a baby in the mix, I can't really

819
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 2: let as many things slide.

820
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 4: When I hear on what you're saying too, you're going

821
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 4: to be more in tune to thinking about things that

822
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 4: the average therapists wouldn't really be thinking about. And I

823
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 4: think about, like working with eating disorders. There's questions that

824
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 4: I asked that some clients that have never been asked before,

825
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 4: or there's things that I bring up that like this

826
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 4: might be a concern that they're like, huh what that.

827
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 4: The only reason I know that is because this is

828
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 4: what I work with exam and day out. And you're saying,

829
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 4: like creating these different plans, another therapist might not ever

830
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 4: think about that, especially if they haven't been in that

831
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 4: space before themselves. You also were talking about earlier before

832
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 4: we started recording, about making sure you get protective sleep

833
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 4: and dividing up different jobs or tasks that some therapists

834
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 4: might not ever think that that would be an option

835
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 4: or something to advocate for, so you can advocate for

836
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 4: your clients in a different way exactly.

837
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you brought up protected sleep. Protected sleep is

838
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: when somebody else is on everything duty. They're on baby duty,

839
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: they're on you know, if there's dishes that need to

840
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: be done, they're doing that, basically taking care of everything

841
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: so that mom can sleep and get some quality sleep.

842
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 3: Because sleep is very much so tied to mental health.

843
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 2: It's tied to anxiety, depression, emotional regulation, emotional intelligence, so

844
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 2: it's a really important piece here. But yeah, like you said,

845
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: it's just like knowing what questions to ask, knowing solutions

846
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 2: that are out of the norm, Like I wouldn't just

847
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: be asking like a random single woman like who can

848
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 2: we get to do your laundry today? And it's like,

849
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: shouldn't I be doing that?

850
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: Why are you asking me that? Exactly?

851
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 2: And having this information to normalize is huge, But also

852
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 2: a big part of healing from a PMAT is building

853
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: a care team so we might know more information about

854
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: medication and pregnancy, and we can work with a perinatal

855
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: psychiatrist and we can work with a duela and.

856
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: You'll have resources too.

857
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 4: Being connected to resources, it's almost like taking one more

858
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 4: roadblock away from the clients. Like if I have to

859
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 4: go and find all of those things myself, that's such

860
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 4: a big, so much work, and I'm probably not going

861
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 4: to do it, yeah, because it might feel too hard.

862
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: And because it is too hard.

863
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And you'll have a list of resources and people

864
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 4: that you trust, then I can because I trust you,

865
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 4: I can allow myself to trust this person.

866
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: Yes, take some of that off the to do list. Yeah,

867
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 2: so that's a big part of it. Another thing that

868
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: I find really interesting is kind of exploring what was

869
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 2: the person's relationship, like with their parents, what was their

870
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: childhood about, because what we've see in this population is

871
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 2: there's a lot that.

872
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 3: We can sweep under the rug, you know when we.

873
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: Don't have kids, but when we're then the parent and

874
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: we're it's put into perspective maybe what happened to us

875
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 2: when we were kids it is impossible to ignore. So

876
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: that's a lot of the work too, is you know,

877
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: healing from that childhood trauma, maybe neglect or abuse.

878
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: So that's a big part of it as well.

879
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 4: Okay, well we are going to have you back because

880
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 4: I I didn't have a list of questions and now

881
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 4: I have a lot of questions.

882
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And anybody who is.

883
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 4: Listening to this and is and has questions, again, like

884
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 4: I said in the beginning, please send them to me

885
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 4: Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast dot com. And then

886
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 4: also if you live in the state of Tennessee, it's

887
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: a very important part state of Tennessee, and you are

888
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 4: listening to this and you have been looking for somebody

889
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 4: like Bridget to help you along your own journey. You

890
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 4: can connect with her by going to our website three

891
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 4: Quartstherapy dot com and you can send her a message

892
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 4: on her page. You can send it on the general page,

893
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 4: or you can email her directly Bridget at three Courtstherapy

894
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 4: dot com and I will put a link to that stuff.

895
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 4: There's always a link to my email and the Three

896
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 4: Chord Therapy website, but if we'll put your email in

897
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 4: there as well. If you guys, that takes one more

898
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 4: step out of the process. But please, please please reach out.

899
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: Even if it feels like, oh, I don't know if

900
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 4: she'll be able to help me, it's worth it to ask. Yeah,

901
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 4: Like I said, I'm so happy that we have somebody

902
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 4: like you on our team. I obviously love the idea

903
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 4: of having a specialized practice, but I also love the

904
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 4: idea of being able to help a diverse.

905
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah people, I love this population.

906
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 4: I get to learn from you just as much as

907
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 4: you might think you're going to learn from other people reports.

908
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 4: So if you guys have any questions, send those and

909
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 4: if you want to follow us. Although the podcast Instagram

910
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 4: has been a little bit dormant, if you've not noticed

911
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 4: because my social media, a person who was Julia moved

912
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 4: on and so I'm now trying to take that back over.

913
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 4: But it's taken me a second to get used to that.

914
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 4: You can follow us anyway at you Need Therapy Podcasts,

915
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 4: and you can follow three Chords Therapy at three Chords Therapy,

916
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 4: and you can follow me at cat dot Defada until

917
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 4: Wednesday when we have couch checks.

918
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: Hope you guys have the day you need to have

919
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:22,919
Speaker 1: fight