Speaker 1: The Armstrong and Getty Show, and let's let's send Dr facts.
Speaker 1: I have to Well, now you're getting into something. If
Speaker 1: the point that you are making is that the grant
Speaker 1: that was funded as a sub award from Eco Health
Speaker 1: to WUHAN created sauce Kovie too. That's where you are
Speaker 1: getting let me finish. We don't know the lab, but
Speaker 1: all the evidence is pointing that it came from the lab,
Speaker 1: and there will be responsibility for those who funded the lab,
Speaker 1: including yourself. I totally totally resent the law that you
Speaker 1: are now propagating, Senator. So there's a lot of back
Speaker 1: back and forth. Actually, Rand Paul, Senator Rand Paul and
Speaker 1: Dr Fauci, you have gotten into it a couple of times,
Speaker 1: and a few times it's been over masks and this
Speaker 1: and that, and I and I thought, you know, Rand,
Speaker 1: you might be going too far here or what. But
Speaker 1: but but on the stuff of the doing the gain
Speaker 1: of function research and what Fouccia knew and when he
Speaker 1: knew it, I think Rand might be on the right
Speaker 1: side of that. And one of the people I go
Speaker 1: to on those kinds of things is Josh Rogan, and
Speaker 1: he might be the go to guy out there in
Speaker 1: terms of a journalist who's looked into the COVID and
Speaker 1: where it came from, and China's rolling at Josh. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to the Armstrong and Getty Show. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1: So we opened with a clip of the back and
Speaker 1: forth between Rand Paul and Dr Fauci last week. We've
Speaker 1: still got the whole problem that the gravitational pull of
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is equal to that of the sun. And
Speaker 1: you know, every conversation ends up me, Okay, Rand Paul's
Speaker 1: a Trump guy. Fauci's and never Trump or so I'm
Speaker 1: on the side of and you know you choose based
Speaker 1: on that. What I want to know is, are are
Speaker 1: we funding this gain of function research? And shouldn't we
Speaker 1: be doing this? I mean getting to the point that
Speaker 1: this was a man made disaster. I think we keep
Speaker 1: forgetting right. COVID is a man made disaster. We created
Speaker 1: this damn thing. Yeah, I think, first of all, I
Speaker 1: agree with you the two things that you said are related,
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm not an anti Foucci guy. I'm
Speaker 1: just a guy who wants to figure out how he
Speaker 1: got into this mess, how we got how the pandemic started,
Speaker 1: because it's crucial to prevent the next pandemic. If we
Speaker 1: don't figure out how we get how this started, we
Speaker 1: won't know what to do in our policy and our
Speaker 1: politics to fix the system. So we know this never
Speaker 1: happens again. And it's clear in that sort of Senate hearing,
Speaker 1: but also in a record of what Anthony Fauci has
Speaker 1: been saying and doing over the last year and a
Speaker 1: half that he doesn't want an examination into our relationship
Speaker 1: people Labs resisted edit in every step. He's been very consistent.
Speaker 1: Every time he's asked about it. He deflects, well, it's
Speaker 1: not Gaina function research. Yeah, but that's not the point.
Speaker 1: The point is that it was risky, and you knew
Speaker 1: it was risky. And by the way he created that
Speaker 1: definition of Gaina function research, it's like a loophole, right.
Speaker 1: He defined it in such a way that you never
Speaker 1: have to review any of the stuff that you're funding
Speaker 1: in Muhan And that's exactly what happened. He built the loophole,
Speaker 1: not just him and I Angient, Francis Collins and all
Speaker 1: these guys who are invested in this industry. They've built
Speaker 1: a loophole into it. Then nothing's gained. A function research
Speaker 1: so we don't have to review anything. And then when
Speaker 1: the pandemic hits and willhan and everyone's like, oh wait
Speaker 1: a second, maybe we should have reviewed this very risky research.
Speaker 1: And what Faugie did was he not only sort of
Speaker 1: played dumbo, I don't what are you talking about. Everything's
Speaker 1: fine when he was asked on CNN, hey, do you
Speaker 1: still think it's a good idea considering these Huhan labs
Speaker 1: just told us to go score ourselves when the pandemic
Speaker 1: and we wanted to do the investigation, and he said, well,
Speaker 1: I guess we have to do it because we have
Speaker 1: to the battor in China. So he's got an agenda here,
Speaker 1: which is to continue the research that he's in charge
Speaker 1: of and to expand it actually sixfold, and to get
Speaker 1: more US taxpayers to pay more US scientists like Anthony
Speaker 1: Fauci and his friends to do more work with these
Speaker 1: Chinese labs. And all I'm saying is, before we do that,
Speaker 1: shouldn't we figure out if the labs sparked the pandemic? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I would say so, and uh and is it and
Speaker 1: our human beings capable of doing this story research and
Speaker 1: not letting it leak out because you've told us in
Speaker 1: other interviews, uh that this is not uncommon this, this
Speaker 1: has happened a number of times where where things leak out.
Speaker 1: So maybe it's just not something human beings can do
Speaker 1: can do well. I want to clear one thing up
Speaker 1: because he said they're invested, did you mean financially or
Speaker 1: just um, you mean financially and their careers and so
Speaker 1: what you have to understand is that in the world
Speaker 1: of virus research is thet NE. Fauci is the head
Speaker 1: of it. He's funding almost all of it in one
Speaker 1: way or another hymn in the NIH. They are what
Speaker 1: spending US taxpayer dollars to sponsor risky research all over
Speaker 1: the world. And what the National security people are saying.
Speaker 1: And if you saw it today, Menendez and Rubio and
Speaker 1: Risch and warnered like these are not you know, fire
Speaker 1: breathing maga. These are the heads of the Senate Farm
Speaker 1: Relations and Senate Intel committees put out a letter today
Speaker 1: and they said, we have to force China to let
Speaker 1: us investigate these labs, and we have to review all
Speaker 1: of our relationships with these labs. That's the point, that's
Speaker 1: what Faucie is resisting because you know, even if the
Speaker 1: lab leak theory isn't true, what's clear is that they
Speaker 1: have no idea what's going on in these labs that
Speaker 1: they're funding, and how can we have a system we're
Speaker 1: we're funding these labs doing risky research and then they
Speaker 1: won't even know let us in the lab where you
Speaker 1: literally can't walk into the lab when the pandemic hits
Speaker 1: on their doorstep. That's a crazy system argue just about
Speaker 1: the system works. He's saying that we should keep that
Speaker 1: system and expand that system. And I say, wait a second,
Speaker 1: before we expand the system and make empthys fast to
Speaker 1: the head of that new system, maybe we should figure
Speaker 1: out if it leaked out from the lab. Man. I
Speaker 1: hope maybe you do. But I hope you realize how
Speaker 1: important you are on this story, because I just I
Speaker 1: don't think there are enough people that understand it and
Speaker 1: enough people that have the gramatas to get anybody's attention,
Speaker 1: because you are you know, you're not a trumper um
Speaker 1: by any means. If anybody reads your stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: I would hope that the other half of America would
Speaker 1: listen to you and say, WHOA, let's slow down on this.
Speaker 1: So do you think Fauci and his crowd just don't.
Speaker 1: They just don't think we're we're smart enough to understand
Speaker 1: what they're doing, and he's afraid we'll shut them down.
Speaker 1: His message on CNN was trust me, don't worry, trust me,
Speaker 1: he said, We've always been safe, We'll continue to be safe.
Speaker 1: We're gonna keep doing it. And in fact, if if
Speaker 1: you look at his interview this weekend in the New
Speaker 1: York Times, he proposes expanding this research everything influenza H
Speaker 1: one and when you name it, he wants to do
Speaker 1: risky research all over the world, including in labs in China. Now,
Speaker 1: I think, I do think that the narrative is changing
Speaker 1: very very slowly, to be sure, not just because it
Speaker 1: made because a lot of people who are like, hey,
Speaker 1: wait a second, that's crazy, and maybe we need some
Speaker 1: oversight of all these scientists because they're checking their own homework, right,
Speaker 1: And then of course they're all telling each other that
Speaker 1: everything's fine, but look around the world, everything's not fine, okay,
Speaker 1: And you know, the w h O was going to
Speaker 1: try again, and the Chinese are gonna go tell them
Speaker 1: to screw themselves, and we'll be back where we started
Speaker 1: in another year. Unless somebody gets off the pot and
Speaker 1: does something. Okay, and the Biden administration is not going
Speaker 1: to do it unless they're pushed to do it. But
Speaker 1: more and more people in Congress, and now more Democrats,
Speaker 1: which is really a I gotta tell you, Jack, it's
Speaker 1: a big change. Like I was actually surprised when I
Speaker 1: saw that today Menendez and Warner, they're you know, they're
Speaker 1: not gonna say that and and go sort of pushing
Speaker 1: the administration to do more to investing in the origins
Speaker 1: if they didn't really believe it, right, if they didn't
Speaker 1: really think that this was really important. So I think
Speaker 1: there is a bipartisan opportunity here, and unfortunately that means
Speaker 1: asking Anthony Founcy a bunch of uncomfortable questions that has
Speaker 1: clearly been avoiding for over a year. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: say so. Um. And then there was that story that
Speaker 1: France the Chinese kicked the French out and France warned
Speaker 1: us and saying, hey, they're they're they're not letting us
Speaker 1: keep an eye on them anymore, and we don't think
Speaker 1: they're being careful. And you know the fact that that
Speaker 1: story is a couple of years old, but nobody mentioned
Speaker 1: that at the beginning of this pandemic, and somebody the
Speaker 1: government knew that, you know, in April when I wrote
Speaker 1: the story breaking the news of the cables, the diplomatic
Speaker 1: cables that reported back in ten that the Wuhan student
Speaker 1: virology was had bad safety standards and that they were
Speaker 1: doing risky coronavirus research on bats and how they could
Speaker 1: become more infection with these humans. You know, I was
Speaker 1: called every name in the book, right, And like you said,
Speaker 1: I'm not a Trump guy, I'm not a pro trunk,
Speaker 1: I'm not an a Trump guy. I just try to
Speaker 1: call him like I see him. And you know, what
Speaker 1: you have to realize is that the Chinese Communist Party
Speaker 1: controls everything, and that our scientific collaboration is not between
Speaker 1: Anthony Fauci and those very nice Chinese scientists. That's not
Speaker 1: the way it works over there. They have a different system.
Speaker 1: Those Chinese scientists can't tell us the truth or they're
Speaker 1: gonna get killed literally literally will be killed or worse.
Speaker 1: And so we have to understand that dealing with the
Speaker 1: totalitarian dictatorship means that they're going to take our engagement
Speaker 1: and use it against us, literally weaponized against us at
Speaker 1: every opportunity. And so that's why I think when Anthony
Speaker 1: Fauci has asked directly about that and he's like, well, nothing,
Speaker 1: there's no problem here. I think that's where a lot
Speaker 1: of people can see the disconnectants can see why we
Speaker 1: can't have scientific collaboration that's actually a dual use military
Speaker 1: technology that our adversary is going to use fill the
Speaker 1: machine they're pointing at us, and that we're gonna pay
Speaker 1: for that, we should still pay for it. You know
Speaker 1: that's crazy? Yeah. Wow. Josh Rogan, global opinions columnists for
Speaker 1: the Washington Post and from my money, the best person
Speaker 1: out there on this stuff. So this columny you had recently,
Speaker 1: Chinese China's vaccine profiteering at the u N is being
Speaker 1: funded by US taxpayers. I was unaware of this. This
Speaker 1: is a really maddening. Can you explain that to people?
Speaker 1: You know, this is really crazy, because you know the
Speaker 1: United what China has done with its vaccines as they've
Speaker 1: gone around the world, threatening, bullying, coercing countries, literally hanging
Speaker 1: shots over their heads and and and forcing them to
Speaker 1: choose between the Chinese Communist Party's politics of the own
Speaker 1: citizens lives. That's how China is using its power and
Speaker 1: its influenced You know, now we see what paging wants
Speaker 1: to be in a world in a world power. But
Speaker 1: the worst part of it is that the international systems
Speaker 1: were distributing to vaccines to poor people, which is, we're
Speaker 1: the majority funder of which we're donating the most too,
Speaker 1: decided to use all of that money to buy these
Speaker 1: Chinese vaccines from the government owned Chinese company at a markup.
Speaker 1: And essentially what that means is that US taxpayers are
Speaker 1: giving the Chinese government money to send vaccines that don't work,
Speaker 1: by the way, to poor countries. And sort of pointing
Speaker 1: that out was seen to be somehow controversial. But all
Speaker 1: I did was follow the money we paid Kovacs, which
Speaker 1: is the international system may pay the Chinese state owned
Speaker 1: company by the way, the vaccines don't even work, So
Speaker 1: that seems crazy to mean we shouldn't be doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just a little bit from your article. A senior US
Speaker 1: official told you that it's not actually the US donated money. Um,
Speaker 1: but as you write, that claim is specious because money
Speaker 1: is fungible. Kind of an argument is that dividing the
Speaker 1: counts on paper is meaningless. The United States is funding Kovacs,
Speaker 1: and Kovacs is paying China, you know, And yeah, it's
Speaker 1: kind of crazy to say that we give them two
Speaker 1: billion dollars and that's not the two billion dollars they're
Speaker 1: going to use to pay the Chinese. It doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. It doesn't pass the last test. But you
Speaker 1: know what's what's even more crazy is that, you know,
Speaker 1: the Biden administration they have an ability to influence these
Speaker 1: multilateral organizations. That's why Trump pulled us out because all
Speaker 1: these multilateral organizations kept doing the wrong things, doing the
Speaker 1: thing that China wanted them to do. And the Biden
Speaker 1: team is like, oh no, these organizations could be useful
Speaker 1: and I think they can, but not if you just
Speaker 1: let them continue to do the wrong thing. So my words,
Speaker 1: the Bid administrations like, hey, guys, why don't you get
Speaker 1: on this and you know, tell Kovacs to not spend
Speaker 1: Americans money on crappy each Chinese vaccinees. I just gonna
Speaker 1: make the problem worse because they give people people of
Speaker 1: false sense of security, they go out and spread the virus. Right,
Speaker 1: it's actually we're actually spending money to pay China and
Speaker 1: makes the situation worse. And what Biden people say. It
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, well, I guess it's too late,
Speaker 1: you know. Um, we're talking with Josh Rogan. I really
Speaker 1: appreciate your time today. Man, he's a good read anytime
Speaker 1: he writes about any of this stuff. Really, I think
Speaker 1: the best out there. And man, stay on that because
Speaker 1: the world needs to know what's going on. And you're you're, you're,
Speaker 1: you're in their jock straps. Thank thank god, Josh Rogan,
Speaker 1: Global Opinions columnists of the Washington Post, Thanks for your
Speaker 1: time today. So a little more on this this So
Speaker 1: it's called COVACS. That's the w h O S. You know,
Speaker 1: we've gotta get vaccines. We've gotta get shots out to
Speaker 1: people all around the world. And UH, to give you
Speaker 1: an uh, we're the good guys in this story by far,
Speaker 1: and China is the bad guys in the world. Needs
Speaker 1: to know this because we're locked in a war with
Speaker 1: China for you know which which one of these polls
Speaker 1: are you gonna be pulled toward the United States or China?
Speaker 1: The two super hours in the world. China has contributed
Speaker 1: zero money to the Tough the World Project to try
Speaker 1: to get vaccines to people. Zero money and zero shots
Speaker 1: from their national stockpile of their vaccine, while the United
Speaker 1: States has pledged four billion dollars and distributed fifty five
Speaker 1: million donated shots and promised to donate five million more
Speaker 1: no charge. So the US taxpayer by far the good
Speaker 1: guy the superhero in this story, and China the evil villain.
Speaker 1: And I don't think enough people know this, And the
Speaker 1: Biden administration, by the way, could do a hell of
Speaker 1: a better job of making sure the world does know
Speaker 1: where the good guy on this and China is the
Speaker 1: bad guy, because we gotta win this war of of
Speaker 1: convincing people