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Speaker 1: Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to soft web Radio, Special Operations, Military nails

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Speaker 1: and straight talk with the guys and the community.

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Speaker 2: Let's be real. Field hygiene sucks. You've got two options.

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Speaker 2: Smell like goat, piss and despair, or do something about it.

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Speaker 2: That's where the scrubble washback comes in. It's the tactical

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Speaker 2: laundry solution for when you are miles from the nearest

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Speaker 2: shower and your gear smells like it's been through Fallujah.

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Speaker 3: In back.

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Speaker 2: Weighing just five point three ounces, this little Ossie engineered

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Speaker 2: miracle rolls up tighter than your last ops of budget

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Speaker 2: and let you wash your clothes in under ten minutes anywhere,

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Speaker 2: no power, no problem, Just add water, soap and your

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Speaker 2: shame stained skivvies. Scrub it like you're punching your deployment

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Speaker 2: frustration out rinse and boom, clean gear, fresh start, get

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Speaker 2: one or get trench foot your call.

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Speaker 3: Hey, what's going on?

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Speaker 2: And welcome to another wonderful episode of soft rep Radio.

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Speaker 2: I am your host rad but you already know that,

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Speaker 2: and today's special guest has a slew a huge resume.

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Speaker 2: But before I introduce you to him. Let me talk

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Speaker 2: about the merch store. So we have brand new hoodies,

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Speaker 2: brand new coffee mugs, all sorts of merch that has

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Speaker 2: the soft Rep logo on it. So please keep purchasing

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Speaker 2: the merch. It really helps us to keep the fireplace going.

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Speaker 2: And that is natural gas, by the way, so it

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Speaker 2: needs to be paid. Okay, let's just keep that real.

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Speaker 2: So the second thing that we have is our book club,

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Speaker 2: and that is soft rep dot Com Forward Slash Book

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Speaker 2: hyphen Club, and that's where you can find all sorts

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Speaker 2: of fun books to read that are curated by the

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Speaker 2: special operations teams behind the whole soft Rep movement. And

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Speaker 2: today is just a wonderful day. You know, I have

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Speaker 2: a skipper, an author, a human being on this earth

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Speaker 2: that walks with us. Okay, we're so happy to have

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Speaker 2: Doug Norton on the show today. Welcome Author Doug Norton.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, glad to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: So wow, Doug, let's just dive into what Doug and

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Speaker 2: who Doug is. And I'm just gonna read your breakdown

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Speaker 2: right here, So give me about two minutes to bust

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Speaker 2: this out.

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Speaker 3: Okay, sir, Author Doug Norton.

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Speaker 2: Armed with plot ideas and characters from his naval career,

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Speaker 2: Doug writes the Code Word series of thrillers. His first

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Speaker 2: in twenty twelve was codeword Paternity. The sequel word Pandora

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Speaker 2: was published in twenty seventeen. Third in the series was

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Speaker 2: code word Persepolis, published in twenty twenty one. His latest,

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Speaker 2: code Word Precipice, was published in twenty twenty five. Doug

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Speaker 2: draws on his experiences in command, at sea and in

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Speaker 2: diplomatic assignments to create exciting, authentic novels. Let me just

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Speaker 2: kind of go over some of your things that you've

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Speaker 2: responded to in your career, such as responding to the

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Speaker 2: North Korean seizure of USS Pueblo in nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 2: the evacuation of Saigon in April nineteen seventy five under

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Speaker 2: the Operation Frequent Wind, locating a sunken Russian merchant ship

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Speaker 2: of high value to the Soviet Union in nineteen seventy five,

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Speaker 2: rescuing Vietnamese refugees at sea in nineteen eighty one, and

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Speaker 2: you had a reunion with them back in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: searching for the black Box of flight Korean Airlines KL

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Speaker 2: zero zero seven after the Russian shot it down in

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Speaker 2: the Sea of Aksht in September nineteen eighty three. I

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Speaker 2: hope I said that see correctly, you were close blomatic

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Speaker 2: assignments in Geneva, Brussels, London and Washington during the Cold War.

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Speaker 2: So as a warship skipper during the Cold War, Doug

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Speaker 2: held launch codes for nuclear weapons as was prepared to

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Speaker 2: use them. He also participated in high stakes negotiations with

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Speaker 2: the Soviet Russian officers to reduce the risk of nuclear war.

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Speaker 2: Thank you by the way for that. He brings these

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Speaker 2: experiences to his latest novel, Code Word Precipice, a tale

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Speaker 2: of high stakes brinkmanship that vividly plays out on the

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Speaker 2: high seas and in the high set in the high

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Speaker 2: seats of power, a Chinese invasion of Taiwan looms.

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Speaker 3: What could we do? What should we do?

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Speaker 2: And what would it feel like to be one of

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Speaker 2: the men and women whose lives are on the line.

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Speaker 2: So after graduating from the Naval Academy in nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 2: Doug served twenty six years aboard vessels ranging from a

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Speaker 2: small rescue salvage ship to a huge aircraft carrier. He

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Speaker 2: commanded the USS Reclaimer ARS DASH forty two, USS Eliott

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Speaker 2: d D DASH ninety sixty seven, and Military Sealift Command Europe.

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Speaker 2: Doug earned a Navy sponsored degree in foreign policy from

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Speaker 2: the University of Washington and had several shore assignments of

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Speaker 2: a diplomatic nature in Geneva, Brussels, London, and Washington. He

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Speaker 2: was a Counsel on Foreign Relations, International Affairs Fellow, and

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Speaker 2: served as Director of International Studies at the Naval Academy.

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Speaker 2: Executive recruiting became his second career. He worked in the

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Speaker 2: field for fifteen years, primarily with corn Ferry International. During

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Speaker 2: this time, his interest in writing began to grow, stimulated

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Speaker 2: by his work as a recruiter, evaluating and describing senior executives.

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Speaker 2: Writing has enriched Doug's life, but not his wallet, and

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Speaker 2: he welcomes opportunities to encourage and assist others to write,

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Speaker 2: especially veterans. He loves interacting with readers, and he has

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Speaker 2: signed books in bars, hospitals, hotels, as well as in

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Speaker 2: bookstores and book club meetings.

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Speaker 3: Doug and his awesome wife.

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Speaker 2: Jane live in Annapolis Annapolis, Maryland, where he volunteered with

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Speaker 2: the Coast Guard and search and rescue and at the

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Speaker 2: local hospital in the emergency department. Now, if you want

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Speaker 2: to follow Doug, which I encourage you to do his

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Speaker 2: writing at events, please follow him at author Doug North,

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Speaker 2: And again, welcome to the show, Doug Norton, Skipper, Sir,

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Speaker 2: welcome aboard.

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Speaker 4: Well, thanks very much. I certainly am not a special

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Speaker 4: operations guy, but I'm glad to have the chance to

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Speaker 4: speak with you and your followers because I'm really interested

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Speaker 4: in I wrote the books for veterans, and I wrote

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Speaker 4: the books from people who have not served, but I

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Speaker 4: think should know more about what it means to serve.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think many of your listeners who are

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Speaker 4: veterans or who are on active duty have had people

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Speaker 4: well meeting people say to them thank you for your service,

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Speaker 4: and probably in the back of their minds, as it

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Speaker 4: often is in the back of my mind, you don't

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Speaker 4: really know what that service was, what it really demanded.

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Speaker 4: So one of the things that I try to do

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Speaker 4: in my novels is bring that out so that people

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Speaker 4: will understand what it means to serve, what the demands

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Speaker 4: and costs of duty are not only to the service

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Speaker 4: members but very much to their families as well. So

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Speaker 4: I'm very glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: I love that you have taken your thoughts and put

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Speaker 2: them into a writing, into a book, you know. And

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of authors that come on the show,

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Speaker 2: and some of the things is that, you know, there's

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Speaker 2: always a brick wall of writing or they're just like

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Speaker 2: some of them like to handwrite everything out and then

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Speaker 2: have it, you know, reput it into print format so

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Speaker 2: that they can read it. And I mean when you

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Speaker 2: were sitting here in nineteen sixty five and you're getting

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Speaker 2: commissioned as probably an ensign, Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Is that how that works? Right?

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Speaker 2: You're just a young man. Did you ever write prior

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Speaker 2: to twenty twelve? Were you always thinking? Like you know,

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Speaker 2: I have a little bit of an artistic side to me.

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Speaker 4: Well, like most people who who have a career, whether

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Speaker 4: it's a military or a business. As you sort of

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Speaker 4: work your way up the ladder, you find yourself having

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Speaker 4: to write, you know, more and more just about your

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Speaker 4: business or about military plans. In my case, I got

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Speaker 4: interested in writing and I wrote some nonfiction stuff, some

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Speaker 4: book chapters and some things in the Naval Institute proceedings,

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Speaker 4: all of them pretty much focused on military strategy and

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Speaker 4: alliance policy and that sort of thing for a pretty

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Speaker 4: you know, for a pretty narrow audience. When I retired

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Speaker 4: from the second time, I thought to myself, gee, I

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Speaker 4: wonder if I've got a novel in me. And so

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Speaker 4: I was looking around figuring out, you know, how might

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Speaker 4: I get started. And I looked at the course catalog

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Speaker 4: from our local community college, which is only a few

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Speaker 4: miles down the road, and lo and behold there was

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Speaker 4: this course there titled how to Write Fiction Like a Pro.

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Speaker 4: And I thought, Aha, this is for me. I'll take

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Speaker 4: this course and I've got it. Well, it wasn't quite

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Speaker 4: that simple, but the course really did get me started writing.

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Speaker 4: And that course is still available today, by the way,

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Speaker 4: it's it's put out by a company called ed to Go.

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Speaker 4: That's ed number two in Goo, and it's one of

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Speaker 4: many courses out there to introduce people who think they

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Speaker 4: might want to write to the actual mechanics of how

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Speaker 4: to do it.

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Speaker 3: And that's ed to Go and it's still going today.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, novels are kind of like

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Speaker 4: houses in the sense that, you know, a house has

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Speaker 4: got a lot of stuff in it that you don't

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Speaker 4: see you're not conscious of it as wiring and plumbing

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Speaker 4: and framing and things like that. And if it didn't

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Speaker 4: have those things, then regardless of how nice the carpeting

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Speaker 4: and the interior walls were, you wouldn't want to live

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Speaker 4: in that house. Well, novels are the same way. There's

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Speaker 4: a lot of stuff inside a novel that the reader

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Speaker 4: just sort of passes over, but would would make it

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Speaker 4: a much poorer book if they weren't there. So you just,

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Speaker 4: just like building a house, learn how to you need

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Speaker 4: to learn how to build a novel, but you don't

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Speaker 4: have to know how to build it before you start.

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Speaker 4: You can start writing without having the intention of writing

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Speaker 4: a novel. And I really recommend that to people because

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Speaker 4: I think writing real enriches your life. It can make

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Speaker 4: you enjoy your reading more. It can make you enjoy

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Speaker 4: your interaction with other people more because you find yourself thinking, gee,

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Speaker 4: how would I describe that person? What words would I

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Speaker 4: use to describe the conversation that I just heard part of?

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Speaker 4: Or why does that person look friendlier? Why does that

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Speaker 4: person look faintly menacing? So there's a lot to it,

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Speaker 4: and I really encourage people to get started, especially veterans

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Speaker 4: because we usually have had some interesting times. Everybody has

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Speaker 4: stories to tell, but perhaps veterans have some of the

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Speaker 4: ones that are more suited to writing thrillers and suspense.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've been asked to write myself by some friends.

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Speaker 3: Like rad why don't you write something about what you know?

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Speaker 2: I do a lot of wargames here in Utah, where

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Speaker 2: we go out in the desert and do all these

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Speaker 2: different wargame scenarios, and they're like, why don't you write

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Speaker 2: about that? And I thought, okay, So I sat down

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Speaker 2: a few years ago and I started to write the

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Speaker 2: beginning of an airsoftk of wargames is wargames here. And

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Speaker 2: so what I found as someone who is trying to

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Speaker 2: write this is I was going off on different.

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Speaker 3: Exit ramps.

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Speaker 2: My thought was, I'm going to talk about x X

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Speaker 2: is the mark, right, I'm going to talk about war games.

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Speaker 2: But all of a sudden, it's like, well, how did

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Speaker 2: I even get into wargames?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: Was that a conversation between me and my wife when

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Speaker 2: I said, Hey, I want to play war games and

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Speaker 2: she is like, well, you better make it something that

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Speaker 2: can produce to the family.

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Speaker 3: And then I'm like, do.

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Speaker 2: I start writing, you know, all of these different lanes.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like, you want to focus on the

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Speaker 2: war games, but there's so many intricacies from our perspectives,

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Speaker 2: Like what you've done on so many boats, you know, vessels,

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Speaker 2: aircraft carriers, names that they get themselves. You know, you've

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Speaker 2: you've seen so many intricacies of all these vessels.

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Speaker 3: It's like, how do you just ride about a boat?

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Speaker 4: Well, I got a couple. I got a couple of

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Speaker 4: suggestions for you as you tackle your writing project. Yes,

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Speaker 4: there's no really one right correct way to write, and

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Speaker 4: well known authors some produce an outline of one hundred

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Speaker 4: or more pages before they start writing scenes. Others like

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Speaker 4: I listened to the fellow who writes the Jack Reacher stuff,

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Speaker 4: Lee Child, in an interview, and he swore that he

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Speaker 4: had no idea what was going to happen until he

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Speaker 4: wrote it. My suggestion to you is start out by

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Speaker 4: outlining what you want to do, because that'll keep you

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Speaker 4: from going down blind alleys, and it also allows you

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Speaker 4: to step away from it for a while, you know,

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Speaker 4: to do other things, and come back maybe a week later,

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Speaker 4: and you're not lost. You know, you know where you

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Speaker 4: need to pick up.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like you've been there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean the thing about this course, the product

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Speaker 4: of this course that I took how to write fiction

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Speaker 4: was a completed outline for a novel, and I wrote

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Speaker 4: my first novel from that outline. Since then, I've tried

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Speaker 4: writing it without the outline, just sort of letting the

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Speaker 4: characters go where they wanted to go and seeing what

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Speaker 4: that produced. But you know what, what I found out

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Speaker 4: was that, at least if you're writing a thriller or

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Speaker 4: suspense where things have to fit together at the end,

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Speaker 4: somehow I had to outline it to find out if

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Speaker 4: I had done that. So for me, there's no escaping

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Speaker 4: from an outline, whether I start for one or start one,

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Speaker 4: or whether I pick it up later, I've got to

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Speaker 4: have an outline.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever find yourself stuck on the science of

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Speaker 2: what you're talking about? And like, is anybody going to

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Speaker 2: like try to, you know, bring up you know this

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Speaker 2: or that versus what you're saying it is?

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Speaker 3: You know, Am I making sense there? Well?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think I think what you're getting

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Speaker 4: at is that, for instance, in in you know, in

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Speaker 4: my in my naval service, I was I was somebody

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Speaker 4: who served the board surface ships, not submarines. I didn't fly,

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Speaker 4: and yet in my novels I have characters who fly,

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Speaker 4: and I put I put the put the reader in

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Speaker 4: the cockpit, and dog fights and in night carry your

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Speaker 4: landings and bad weather. Well, I don't have any idea

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Speaker 4: how to do that. But fortunately, again, like a lot

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Speaker 4: of veterans, I know people that have, you know, thousands

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Speaker 4: of fixting hours, five hundred carrier landings, and they're always

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Speaker 4: happy to take what I write and say when they

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Speaker 4: stop giggling at my first attempt, no, that's really not

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Speaker 4: what it's like. And they helped me fix it, and

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Speaker 4: we go through this process and in the end I

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Speaker 4: end up with something that that knowledgeable readers seem to

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Speaker 4: think is pretty authentic, judging by the things that people

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Speaker 4: post on Amazon and elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: And that's exactly what I was getting at, right, And

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Speaker 2: so it's like, okay, well, you're just going to bring

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Speaker 2: to life your imagination onto paper the best you can

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Speaker 2: and just hopefully the reader can pull out of it

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Speaker 2: the connection between your characters and the outline that you

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Speaker 2: draft it up.

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Speaker 3: See.

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Speaker 2: The reason why I like talking about this so much

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Speaker 2: is we have so many folks that listen to this

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Speaker 2: show who are dreaming of being you. They want to

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Speaker 2: write a book, they want to be an author.

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Speaker 3: Even me.

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Speaker 2: You hear me saying, Hey, you know, I was encouraged

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Speaker 2: to try to start writing as well with the lane

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Speaker 2: that I know, like my space. Yes, and so you

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Speaker 2: know that's something just to put out there for someone

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Speaker 2: listening to us. Yeah, you've got a few books out

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Speaker 2: there and you're continually writing. But they if they want

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Speaker 2: to start writing themselves, you would just say, focus on

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Speaker 2: your lane and just start writing it.

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Speaker 4: Huh, Well I would, And I mean I have a

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Speaker 4: presentation that I like to give called why you Yes

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Speaker 4: you should start writing, And I talk about that, you know,

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Speaker 4: the pleasure that it gives, how it helps, and how

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Speaker 4: to start and and just just various little things and

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Speaker 4: tricks that I've that I've learned along the way, you know,

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Speaker 4: what to keep myself going. I Mean, one thing that

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Speaker 4: I like about having an outline is that you can

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Speaker 4: well I've never made a quilt, okay, but I know

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Speaker 4: a little bit about the process of making quilts. So

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Speaker 4: if you have an outlined and you wake up and

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Speaker 4: you decide you want to write the Dogfight scene, or

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Speaker 4: the love scene or the reconciliation scene. That's just what

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Speaker 4: you're in the mood to write that day. You know

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Speaker 4: what that scene has to do from your outline, So

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Speaker 4: just go with the flow, go with your mood, write

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Speaker 4: the scene, and then, like a quilt square, put it aside.

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Speaker 4: When you've got a whole stack of quilt squares, you're

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Speaker 4: going to take them and you're going to stitch them

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Speaker 4: onto the backing material to produce the quilt. And you

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Speaker 4: might stitch them on and you might look at it

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Speaker 4: and say, or maybe a friend looks at it and says, eh,

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Speaker 4: you know, maybe this ought to be there and that

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Speaker 4: ought to be there. Well, with writing, you can do

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Speaker 4: the same thing thanks to word processing. I move stuff

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Speaker 4: around all the time when I'm sure a first draft.

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Speaker 4: So again, outlining is a pretty good way to go

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Speaker 4: when you start. And for me anyway, it's it's inescapable

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Speaker 4: and it allows you to step away and come back

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Speaker 4: and not get lost. That allows you to write what

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Speaker 4: you're in the mood to write without having found out

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Speaker 4: that you've just hike thirty miles up a blind canyon

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Speaker 4: and now you're stuck.

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Speaker 2: Right, bro, you got so many cool stories that I

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Speaker 2: could just like start picking on you about, and I.

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Speaker 3: Just don't know where to go.

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Speaker 2: You know, I usually have a pretty good concise level

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Speaker 2: of what I'm going to talk to my guest about,

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Speaker 2: but you're just mesmerizing to me. First of all, Skipper, Right,

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Speaker 2: you've earned the title Skipper. Did you have a coffee mug?

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Speaker 2: And if you did have a coffee mug, did you

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Speaker 2: ever clean it?

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Speaker 4: Yes? And I still have the coffee. I still have

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Speaker 4: coffee mugs from both of those ships. And I was

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Speaker 4: just having a cup of coffee out of the one

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Speaker 4: from Reclaimer a little while ago. That coffee mug was

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Speaker 4: made in the Philippines and hand painted in nineteen seventy five,

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Speaker 4: and so it's completely irreplaceable. I treasure it, and yes

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Speaker 4: I do clean it, but not off.

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Speaker 3: Not off.

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Speaker 2: I love that I've learned that that you guys have

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Speaker 2: coffee bugs.

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Speaker 4: I have many shipmates, particularly my friends who are chief

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Speaker 4: pety officers, who scold me for cleaning it at all.

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Speaker 4: They say, you never ever ever clean your coffee cup.

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Speaker 3: Never.

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Speaker 2: No, like they want it lacquered on the inside, like

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Speaker 2: you can just pour like two drips in it.

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Speaker 3: It's so You're like, where's the coffee even gonna go with?

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Speaker 2: This? Mugget's so schlacked with so much coffee residue. But

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Speaker 2: that's like the taste, the luck the sea, you know.

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Speaker 2: I always say that, you know, joining the Air Force

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Speaker 2: was a cool idea I did, But my dad was

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Speaker 2: a Navy guy.

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Speaker 3: So my dad was Yeah, my dad.

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Speaker 2: Former Green Beret Special Forces Prior to that though, at

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Speaker 2: seventeen years old, he enlisted in the Navy out of Wisconsin,

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Speaker 2: went through his summer in the Navy boot camp, came

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Speaker 2: back to high school, and then straight to Vietnam as

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Speaker 2: a radio engineer Morse code operator on a frigate. The

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Speaker 2: frigate was at one point dead in the water in

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Speaker 2: Chinese water somewhere, and they were being encroached by Chinese vessels.

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Speaker 3: And all I know is my dad would.

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Speaker 2: Tell me I had a marine with a bullet with

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Speaker 2: my name on it, so if we were to be captured,

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Speaker 2: I was to be just burned, like we were burning

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Speaker 2: all the papers. So he said that they so they

368
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Speaker 2: were burning everything in the boiler, they were burning all documents.

369
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Speaker 2: They were getting ready to be you know, boarded by

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Speaker 2: the Chinese and Scottie down below in the engine room.

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Speaker 2: Whoever's running that Star Trek vessel, He's given her all

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Speaker 2: she's got, and all of a sudden, he said that

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Speaker 2: the prop started kicking on and they just like were

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Speaker 2: able to like creep out of Chinese waters into international waters,

375
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Speaker 2: and it just saved their day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, in yours since he got back.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you know, and he joined the Green Berets.

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Speaker 2: After his navy tenure in Vietnam, he became army and

379
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 2: went s f in the seventies, eighties and nineties, and

380
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Speaker 2: so it's there's just so many things that I just

381
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Speaker 2: I wish I knew that his boat's his ship's name,

382
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Speaker 2: you know, I know, it was a frigate, and I

383
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Speaker 2: just would always, you know, I forget that. But I

384
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Speaker 2: was like, oh, what if you were on it. That's

385
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Speaker 2: what I was thinking about last night before we were

386
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Speaker 2: gonna have our interview. Was like, I wonder, you know,

387
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 2: because yeah, I mean, you're in in sixty five, sixty six,

388
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Speaker 2: sixty seven, he went into sixty eight, sixty nine.

389
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, at the height of all of it.

390
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Speaker 2: And he said, the first thing he noticed when he

391
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Speaker 2: knew he was in war is that he was getting

392
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Speaker 2: off the ship to get into Vietnam, and there was

393
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Speaker 2: like five hundred people sitting in black pajamas, sitting in

394
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Speaker 2: the Indian style, and there was two Marines with sixties

395
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Speaker 2: overwatching all of them. And he said, at that moment

396
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Speaker 2: he knew that he was in a war zone, was

397
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Speaker 2: getting off that boat to go to do whatever. I

398
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Speaker 2: just can imagine, yeah, yeah, yeah, When did you know

399
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Speaker 2: that you were now in Vietnam? When did you realize

400
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Speaker 2: that this is real?

401
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Speaker 4: Well? I was, first of all, I had I had

402
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Speaker 4: five deployments to Vietnam, but they were they were very

403
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Speaker 4: easy deployments in the sense of that they were they

404
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 4: were shipboard. I was hardly ever ashore, and you know,

405
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 4: and and yes we got shot at, we would, we

406
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 4: would duke it out with with North Vietnamese shore batteries,

407
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 4: but frankly, it was nothing at all like what it

408
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:27,199
Speaker 4: was like in ground combat ashore. So I guess the

409
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Speaker 4: first time I realized that was was was in Tet

410
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 4: Tet nineteen sixty eight, when we were the ship that

411
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 4: I was on was on the gun line and we

412
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Speaker 4: were right near the mouth of the Quaviette River. There's

413
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 4: a bridge across there across the river that a that

414
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 4: uh a marine named Ripley got the Medal of Honor

415
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 4: for for managing to blow up before the North Vietnamese

416
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 4: tanks came across it. But we were, we were in

417
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Speaker 4: close enough to be shooting at that at that bridge

418
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Speaker 4: before he got there, and they were shooting back at us.

419
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Speaker 4: And so I guess that's when I when I really

420
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 4: realized that. That's when I when I discovered that the

421
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 4: incoming shells actually do sound like they do in the movie.

422
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 4: They go whoosh and they go boom. Oh yeah, but

423
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 4: but none of them hit us. So so so those

424
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 4: tours were, as I say, there were five of them,

425
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: but they were they were they were really the life

426
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 4: of Riley compared to the guys who were who were ashore,

427
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 4: that's for sure.

428
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 3: And who what what kind of a ship were you

429
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 3: on that was returning fire?

430
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Speaker 4: Well, at that time, it was a destroyer, the d

431
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 4: d G. I was on a couple of other ships

432
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Speaker 4: that were out there doing doing similar things. But I'll

433
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 4: tell you a little let me you're talking about your

434
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 4: your dad, yeah, and that let me just I'll tell

435
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 4: you a little sea story. So when I was on

436
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 4: the Salvad ship reclaimer. Uh. We got sent up to

437
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 4: the Yellow Sea off North Korea to a location that

438
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 4: actually was pretty close to where the Pueblo got captured.

439
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 4: And this was about five years now. This was about now,

440
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 4: this is about fifteen years after that, but it was

441
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 4: still fresh in everybody's mind, and our job was to

442
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 4: search for a US Air Force fighter that had crashed

443
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 4: while operating doing it. It was a fighter that was

444
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 4: part of what they call the Red Flag Squadron, that

445
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 4: the aggressor squadron that flew Soviet tactics and aircraft that

446
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 4: mimicked the Soviet aircraft performance. And this guy hit something

447
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 4: that happened that he had to bail out and he

448
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 4: was fine. But the Air Force either wanted that airplane

449
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 4: back or they wanted to know that nobody could find

450
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 4: at one or the other. Well, unfortunately, what we proved

451
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 4: was that nobody could find it because we spent a

452
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 4: month up there in rotten weather and kind of worried

453
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 4: also occasionally about about what the North Koreans might do.

454
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 4: They didn't do a thing, but we finally got permission

455
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 4: to leave and we were headed for a port in

456
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: Taiwan called kaw shong that it's a really good liberty

457
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 4: port bod. He was very happy. And as we headed south,

458
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 4: we passed a Russian ship sort of like ours, called

459
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 4: a Print class salvage ship, followed by a cash and

460
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 4: class destroyer, both of them really rusty and looking just

461
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 4: beaten to death by the weather. We just started exchange

462
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 4: the international flag symbol flag equivalent of have a nice day,

463
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 4: and we passed each other. Well. Shortly after that we

464
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 4: got a message that said go to latitude X and

465
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 4: longitude y and locate a sunken merchant ship. Well, we

466
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 4: thought that was nuts, because in those days we didn't

467
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 4: have side scan sonar. We had really nothing to look

468
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 4: for a ship on the bottom, but orders as orders,

469
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 4: So grumbling away we went, and sure enough, as we

470
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: got closer, we spotted on oil slick, and we followed

471
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 4: the oil slick and we made a couple of passes

472
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 4: over the top of it, just with an ordinary phabometer,

473
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 4: but the bottom was very flat, and sure enough the

474
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 4: phatometer trace produced something and looked an awful lot like

475
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 4: a merchant ship lying on its side on a flat bottom.

476
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 4: So we reported this up the chain of command and

477
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 4: immediately got a flurry of messages saying, you know, stay

478
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 4: where you are, don't lose it, don't dive on it.

479
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 4: And that was a laugh because it was way too

480
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 4: deep for us to dive on and when the Russians

481
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 4: come back, give it to them. So we stayed there

482
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 4: for a couple of days, and sure enough over the

483
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 4: horizon come the same two Russian ships, this front class

484
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: salvage ship in this cash and class destroyer. And I

485
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 4: couldn't help thinking, those poor bastards. They must have been

486
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 4: almost home and got turned around and told to come

487
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 4: back to this place where they'd been searching for over

488
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 4: a month. Yeah, so they came back, and we were

489
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 4: given a prescribed message to send them. We did, and

490
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 4: then we went off to Kashon for liberty and left

491
00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 4: them looking there. So what was it? We really don't know.

492
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 4: I mean somebody does, but they didn't tell us. In

493
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 4: those days.

494
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 2: They just wanted you to triangulate the coordinates exactly and

495
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 2: say it's right here, we're on it. You're basically like,

496
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 2: we're not diving it. It's how deep do you think

497
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: it was? Three six?

498
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 3: No, it wasn't.

499
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 4: It wasn't that deep. We had in those days. We

500
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 4: had only we were just air divers, hard hat divers

501
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 4: on air so this thing was only about two hundred

502
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 4: and a little over two hundred feet deep, which would

503
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 4: be a piece of cake now, but but was impossible

504
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 4: for us at that time with the gear that we

505
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 4: had aboard. So in those days, it was the Soviet

506
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 4: Union that was North Korea's main supporter, not China. And

507
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 4: so the rumors are that, you know, everything from you know,

508
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 4: a shipload of gold billion to pluck prop up their currency,

509
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 4: to some kind of a weapon. Never knew, but it

510
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 4: was something that they really wanted to get back and

511
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 4: we were We somehow got into the middle of some

512
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 4: high level negotiation about this thing and probably about some

513
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 4: other things as well. That's one of the interesting things

514
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 4: that happens in the military sometimes is you get you're

515
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 4: told what you need to do to do your job,

516
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 4: but you don't know the big picture, and some of

517
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 4: the speculation can be pretty interesting.

518
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: They know the outline and they send you to go

519
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 2: figure it out, and you're like, but there's all of

520
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: this intricacy going on in between, like one mission leads

521
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: to another three missions.

522
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and now and then that that event is

523
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 4: something that I was in my mind when I wrote

524
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 4: code word Precipice, because one of the characters in Code

525
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 4: Word Precipice is the skipper of a cruiser out in

526
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 4: the Indian Ocean was on a mission that he's so

527
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 4: that's so secret. He hasn't been told what it's actually

528
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 4: supposed to accomplish, and he begins to suspect as he

529
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 4: goes along that he's being set up for failure by

530
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 4: his own boss because this is part of some much

531
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 4: larger scheme.

532
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: That's that's incredible, Yeah, because you probably had some intuition

533
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: while you're doing this, because I mean, a skipper has

534
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: to be able to be a skipper with like, you know,

535
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: knee jerk reactions, you know, and so you have to

536
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: be able to be like, you know, all hands full,

537
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 2: you know, right rudder, now face the torpedo, you know.

538
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: I mean, you got to think, you know about you

539
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: have so much going on in your head.

540
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,239
Speaker 4: Well you do, but you have if you're fortunately as

541
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 4: I was, you have a whole lot of help from

542
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 4: officers and chief petty officers and senior petty officers are

543
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 4: what the Army would call senior n CEOs, all people

544
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: who know a whole lot about what they do, and

545
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 4: a lot of times the best thing to do is

546
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 4: just to trust them and let them do their jobs

547
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 4: and help them do their jobs. Yeah, there's some things

548
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: that only the captain can decide, But you don't have

549
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 4: to do everything yourself, that's for darn sure. And I

550
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: certainly couldn't have done everything myself. An awful lot of

551
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 4: people were doing things to support the ship that I

552
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 4: could barely even understand, but they knew.

553
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: And it was your job as a manager, yeah, to

554
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: make sure that they managed their their lanes, their sections appropriately.

555
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: And then you know, everybody would report back to you. Hey,

556
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, give me a readiness on level three, deck three,

557
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: give me readiness from the machine gunner, you know, from

558
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: the Bozeman's mates.

559
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: You know all of this. How are colms doing right?

560
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: They're all going to report back to the skipper to say, Skipper,

561
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 2: this is what's now?

562
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: Did they call you skipper? Is that something that you

563
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: were called? Skipper?

564
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 4: Uh? I love it on this The Salvad ship was

565
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 4: h Do you remember a TV show called McHale's Navy starting.

566
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 3: In I sure do remember McHale's Navy.

567
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 4: The Salvat Ship was really part of McHale's navy. Okay,

568
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: it was definitely not spitting polish. Nobody really cared about us.

569
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 4: As long as we showed up when we could put

570
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 4: and did our job. We put out a fire, we

571
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: hauled a ship off a reef, we picked up aircraft, wreckage,

572
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 4: whatever it was. As long as we did that, pretty

573
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 4: much nobody cared. So we were. We were very informal,

574
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 4: and I was also very young. The ship was older

575
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 4: than I was, and I found I found out later

576
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 4: that that one of the senior n CEOs, who was

577
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 4: probably yeah, he was older than I was, had written

578
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 4: to his wife one day and said, hey, shortly after

579
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 4: I'd taken command, and said, hey, we really liked the

580
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,239
Speaker 4: new skipper, but he's so young. When we see him,

581
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: we don't know whether to salute him or burp him.

582
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's real, that's real.

583
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so you know. So so they they usually

584
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 4: called me captain, but occasionally called me skipper on the destroyer,

585
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 4: which is in in what i'll call big navy, where

586
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 4: you've got a lot of oversight and a lot of

587
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 4: spit and polish and everything. It was captain.

588
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: It was captain. Yes, I got you. I love that.

589
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: I think you're awesome. I just want you to know

590
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 3: that you just.

591
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: Came on the show to get some affirmation today and

592
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: just be told that you're You're super cool and you'd

593
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: have a lot of cool baseball cards if you had

594
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: had someone make baseball cards of you throughout the years

595
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: of your of your tenure. You like your rookie card,

596
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: you know, three years in what's his era? I think

597
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: that's awesome. Uh, when you were in high school, was

598
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: there anything that drew you to the Navy? Was it like,

599
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: were you a boy scout prior to anything? Did you

600
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: swim all the time? What was it about the Navy

601
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: that just pulled.

602
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: You in to the Navy?

603
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 4: Well, I grew up in a Navy family. You know,

604
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 4: you grew up in a military family, so you know

605
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 4: something about that. So you know, I admired my dad.

606
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 4: I thought that what he did was worthwhile and honorable.

607
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 3: What did he do?

608
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 4: He was a Navy pilot. He flew from the carrier

609
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: Enterprise in World War Two, flew from Gualacanal, was shot

610
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 4: down once and survived.

611
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 3: So he was holy cow.

612
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: He went. Yeah, he went through the whole one, through

613
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 4: the whole thing. I never talked much about it. I

614
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 4: actually learned more about the things that he did from

615
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 4: the guy who was his tailgunner when they had a

616
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 4: memorial service after he died. This guy was lied about

617
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 4: his age. The tailgunner lied about his age, enlisted at sixteen,

618
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 4: rode back there in the ball turret behind him, and

619
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 4: you know, talked about all the stuff that they had

620
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 4: done that my dad never talked about. So, yeah, I started.

621
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 4: I grew up in the Navy. I really, you know,

622
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 4: I really didn't much hear doing anything else.

623
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: You are the Navy today, you are the Navy.

624
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 4: Well, you know, there's there's an awful lot outside the

625
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 4: Navy too. I mean, I enjoyed my second career as

626
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 4: an executive recruiter. I'm enjoying life now, and I really,

627
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 4: again I encourage people who have served. When you get

628
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 4: to a certain age and you've got gray hair, you

629
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 4: start thinking about, you know what, his life. Yeah, there

630
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 4: you go, I see it.

631
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: I'm pointing out my hair, my beard, But it's nowhere

632
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 2: near the stripes.

633
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 3: That you've earned in your hair.

634
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: As my dad would say, He's like, these are my stripes,

635
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: and I've earned every single one of them.

636
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 4: So anyway, so I encourage people to, you know, to

637
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,959
Speaker 4: write about their experiences, both for their own enjoyment. I

638
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 4: know several friends of mine who have written about their

639
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 4: naval experiences and this just for their families. Maybe published

640
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 4: five or six copies of the book and that's it.

641
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 4: You won't find it on Amazon. But their experiences are

642
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 4: recorded for their children and grandchildren and great drink grandchildren.

643
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 4: I really really encourage that because not only for the

644
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: knowledge that it passes on, but also for the pleasure

645
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 4: that it probably gives each one of them to recall

646
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 4: these things and write them down.

647
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent.

648
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: I mean again, growing up in a military family, my

649
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: dad was always trying to achieve, you know, his next

650
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: level of education. So he went in he had a

651
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: bachelor's degree in the army, didn't get his mission, uh,

652
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: but he went to his master's, got his master's done,

653
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: and then he's.

654
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 3: Working on a doctorate before he passed. And again that's

655
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 3: writing a book. You know.

656
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: He was really writing a lot. And my dad was

657
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: really more of a typewriter guy. Yeah, you know, I

658
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: would always watch him sit there and just Remington Raider

659
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: all the way, you know, and just sit there and

660
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 2: type it out. I still have his typewriter downstairs and uh,

661
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: you know, just in his chair, right, those types of things,

662
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: and I sit in it and I'm like, geez, you

663
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: would write on this.

664
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 3: We have keyboards. It's like oh yeah, yeah, no more

665
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: white out.

666
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: He would sit there at his desk and I'd like,

667
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: He's like, just tab it out the white out on

668
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: that typewriter. You know, these are official documents.

669
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the reason why, you know, becoming a writer is,

670
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 4: you know, is not as hard as you might see

671
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 4: because of word processing. And yes, it's just so much

672
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 4: easier than then. You know, you see those movies of

673
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 4: the of writer in the old days, you know, rolling

674
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 4: the paper into the remington and typing away and then

675
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 4: discusting love crosses his face and so he rips it

676
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 4: out and throws it away and starts again. Well, life's

677
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 4: a lot easier than it now.

678
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

679
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, because it would be like rip that

680
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: paper out, crumble it up, and toss it into a

681
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: pile that falls down. There's more, you know, like all

682
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: of these like I gotta start over. I gotta start over.

683
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 3: But you know, a.

684
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: Great boxer, Muhammad Ali said, you don't have to be

685
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: great to start, but you have to start to be great.

686
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, you know.

687
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 2: And so because I go boxing just about every single day, okay,

688
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, I go in at forty

689
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: seven years old thinking I'm going to be a professional.

690
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 2: That's my mindset. I'm going to give it everything I've got.

691
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to listen to the coaches. I'm gonna if

692
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: they tell me to move my feet a certain way,

693
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to work on that, you know,

694
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: off the clock, even at home, you know, shadow boxing,

695
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 2: the whole nine yards. So when I go back to class,

696
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: my coach is like, hey, that's right, you did that

697
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 2: right this time.

698
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 3: You know.

699
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: It's just like, you know, I just really find something

700
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 2: good about just pursuing an activity or just you know,

701
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: it kind of clears.

702
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 3: The brain, sure, you know.

703
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: And and writing, I think, after talking to you right now,

704
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go ahead and try to write some more,

705
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: you know, and just be inspired by you.

706
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 3: I want you to know that, and I just want

707
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 3: you to know that.

708
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 4: Well, please give it a shot. I'm sure I'm sure

709
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 4: you'll you'll hit your stride, you'll find whatever, whatever your

710
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 4: technique is well, we'll eventually emerge. Just keep at it.

711
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just like verbal diarrhea. I don't know how

712
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 2: to say it. Otherwise, that's okay.

713
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 4: That's what that's why you that's why you revise, you know.

714
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,959
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I live in terror of not being

715
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 4: able to finish the first draft. I just struggle to

716
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 4: finish the first draft. After I finish the first draft,

717
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 4: I'm completely happy because I love to revise. I know that.

718
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 4: You know, Okay, I've managed to figure to make this

719
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 4: thing fit together. So now I can relax and work

720
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 4: on making the characters better and the pros better and

721
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 4: so on. So yeah, you'll have just.

722
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: Tried, you know, Doug, your website is really easy to navigate, right,

723
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 2: and it's Doug Norton, author, Doug Norton dot com.

724
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna plug it right.

725
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: We're here to let everybody know that you have this

726
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: out there, and I'm looking at you know, right here.

727
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 2: When you look, you can see code word paternity, code

728
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: word pandora, code word persepolis, and code word precipice. Okay,

729
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 2: and so precipice. Thank you. No, you're very much remind

730
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: me of my dad right there. Thank you so much so,

731
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: But paternity isn't paternity about like Iran and Israel in

732
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 2: the Middle East?

733
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 3: Isn't that that book, isn't it?

734
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 4: No, that's the one that's That's the one that's about

735
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 4: about North Korea.

736
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 3: And I could have sworn I was reading something about.

737
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: Well about is about the Middle East.

738
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 4: It's a little confusing because they all begin with p.

739
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 2: I noticed this and so, and I may have got

740
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 2: that confused. But Persepolis is the one that I was mentioning. Sure,

741
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: kind of like foreseeing some things here were you.

742
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I I try to write about current events.

743
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: I try to take a fictional look at real problems,

744
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 4: real issues that face the country in the world. I

745
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 4: think there's a lot of value in a fictional look

746
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 4: at these things without getting it straying into fantasy, but

747
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 4: because with fiction you can help people really understand how

748
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 4: difficult it is to make the decisions that have to

749
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: be made, whether it's whether it's presidents or whether it's

750
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 4: squad leaders ashore. So I try to I try not

751
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 4: to have silver bullet solutions. I try to try to

752
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 4: be absolutely realistic and recognize, you know, use equipment that

753
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 4: really is is the equipment that's out there. It's not

754
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 4: some magic new death ray that that solves the problem.

755
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 4: It's not a silver rulet. And realize that there are

756
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 4: no silver, golden solutions either. There's there's a downside to

757
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 4: every course of action you can think of in any

758
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 4: kind of a problem, especially when some one of my

759
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: main characters is a president of the United States, and

760
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 4: by the time a problem gets up to that level,

761
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 4: all of just about everything anybody can think of has

762
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 4: been has been tried and discarded, So you basically are

763
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 4: facing uh, you're picking the worst, the least worst choice

764
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 4: a lot of the time.

765
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 3: Right.

766
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 2: Wow, you know that's a good way to put it,

767
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 2: because there's just going to always be like something's tried something,

768
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: you know.

769
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 3: Now it's to the main man.

770
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 2: He's got to make a decision do we go full

771
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: scale this because all the all the things that you've

772
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: thought of that you've tried to squelch it. But again,

773
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: like you said, I like that you're not writing about

774
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: a ray gun, not that there's not a purpose for

775
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: a ray gun to be involved in in in books

776
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 2: and storytelling. There you're more like, hey, this is the

777
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: equipment that.

778
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 4: We have today, Yes, exactly.

779
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: And how can we thwart whatever with what we currently

780
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: have or you know, engage with the current mechanisms that

781
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: we have, for example, like you know, Iran and America

782
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: getting along. What would you think today, as someone who

783
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: wrote a book about you know, you know, you've dug

784
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: into it, what do you think would help diplomacy right

785
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: now in the Middle East?

786
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 3: What do you think about that?

787
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 4: Well? I mean, I'm certainly not a Middle East expert.

788
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm a guy who writes, who's written one

789
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 4: novel about it. But I think certainly there's got to

790
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 4: got to be some way to you know, to end

791
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 4: the fighting that's going on right now in Gaza.

792
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 3: Yes, and.

793
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: We just have to recognize that there are a lot

794
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 4: of a lot of nations in the Middle East that

795
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 4: don't much like each other, and they're and gonna They're

796
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: gonna have to sort things out. And I think probably

797
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 4: less less chest beating and more negotiating is the way

798
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 4: to do that. I I my experience in negotiating is

799
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 4: that when you have a problem that you can't just

800
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 4: order somebody to solve for you, or you can't just

801
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 4: order some other nation to take a certain step, you

802
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 4: have to negotiate, you have to horse trade. You have

803
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 4: to recognize that they have their own interests and they

804
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 4: have their own power, and you can't just tell them

805
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 4: what to do. One of the interesting things that I

806
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 4: found when I was in the Salt negotiations was I

807
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 4: shuttled back and forth between Washington and Geneva along with

808
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 4: a bunch of other young people. I was one of

809
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 4: those ones that you see if you see a picture

810
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 4: of two senior diplomats meeting sitting at a table, you

811
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 4: may notice over in the corner there are a bunch

812
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 4: of people squeezed into little chairs along the wall. Well,

813
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 4: I was one of those people squeezed in the little

814
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 4: chairs along the wall. And I would do that in Washington,

815
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 4: and then I would come go over and do that

816
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 4: in Geneva. So I got to watch a lot of things,

817
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 4: and it was interesting to see that sometimes people in

818
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 4: Washington would forget that it's a negotiation. They would say, well,

819
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 4: just tell them they have to do that. But then

820
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 4: when you go over there and you tell them and

821
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 4: they say, well tell me why I should do that,

822
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 4: what are you willing to give up, they'll do that.

823
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 4: It's very interesting. I spent many hours talking with Soviet

824
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 4: officers about certain technical details of muscle systems, and well, look,

825
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 4: we want you to give up this, and they say, well,

826
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 4: we want you to give up that, and you know,

827
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 4: you have to work it out because in that case,

828
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 4: neither side had the power to say, hey, this is

829
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 4: the way it's going to be, do it my way

830
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 4: or else, right, right?

831
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: You know that that brings me to kind of the

832
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: current situation. You know, I know, I have you for

833
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 2: a few more moments. But with Ukraine, you know where

834
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: they did give up all of their stuff for their

835
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: negotiations in nineteen ninety two, they gave up the nuclear

836
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: arms and they said, hey, we want to be just

837
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: a sovereign nation, leave us alone. We're our own entity now.

838
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: And the agreement was there, and the negotiations happened, and

839
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: now it seems like those negotiations have been forgotten about

840
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: and they're not being you know, honored.

841
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 4: Yep, at all, absolutely, at all, at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

842
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 4: that's the other thing. I mean, things change, power, relationships change,

843
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 4: technology changes. Nations are always looking out for what they

844
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 4: perceive or what in Russia's case putin perceives is the

845
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 4: best thing for them. So nothing is nothing is ever

846
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 4: really permanent either.

847
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 2: No, And and that battlefield is a completely interesting, cryptic

848
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: digital battlefield going on right now with so many technologies.

849
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 3: That are involved.

850
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let alone, let alone boots on the ground,

851
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: guys and gals strapping up boots and bayonets.

852
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: That's happening. But it's a lot more tactical.

853
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: And strategic going on over there, with these drone systems

854
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 2: and all of these fiber optic cables following the drones

855
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: and the spider webs that are being laid all over

856
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 2: the ground from the drone attacks from both sides.

857
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of that's happened there,

858
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 4: and it's going to filter out across the world to

859
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 4: other battlefields as well.

860
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 3: Yes.

861
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because they're kind of creating it, Yes, and

862
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 2: others are watching it and they're like, oh hey, let's

863
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 2: implement that into us. Bro Oh man, Now, I hope

864
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,760
Speaker 2: that you have just the best success with your book series. Okay,

865
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: with the codes and and again Precipice, Yes, code name, Precipice,

866
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: Your your latest your latest creation, your latest book. Where

867
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: can we find it? Where when does it come out?

868
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: If it's already out talk to us about it just

869
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 2: a little.

870
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 4: Bit more so. So the book launched in March, and

871
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 4: you can get it just about any place, as they say, wherever,

872
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 4: wherever books are sold, any bookstore can get it for you.

873
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 4: You're not going to find it on the shelf in

874
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 4: a bookstore because shelf space and bookstores goes to books

875
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 4: that are are best selling books by well known authors.

876
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 4: And that's and that's not me. But any bookstore can

877
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 4: order it for you. I hope folks will support local bookstores.

878
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 4: I think they're really an important part of the community.

879
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 4: You can also order it from Amazon. You can get

880
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 4: it from Barnes and Noble. It's available in Milk and

881
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 4: Kindle and who knows what other electronic forums that I

882
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 4: don't understand. So yeah, I really hope people will. We

883
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 4: will seek it out and enjoy it. And and I'll

884
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 4: say I'll speak on behalf of every author that I know.

885
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 4: You know, most of us are not gonna get rich

886
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 4: from writing, that's for sure. Only only a few people

887
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 4: are good enough to do that. But we all enjoy

888
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 4: getting feedback. So when you read a book, if you're

889
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 4: an online person at all, go post somewhere about it,

890
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 4: post a post a review on Amazon, post a review

891
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 4: on Goodreads, you know, tell us how we're doing. That's

892
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 4: really where I get a huge amount of my of

893
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 4: my enjoyment out of publishing books, right is when some

894
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 4: when I read a review and I can tell somebody, gosh,

895
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 4: she got what it is that I was trying to say.

896
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 4: That's a really good feeling for an author to have.

897
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 4: So I really encourage people not only to buy books

898
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 4: and read books, but to review them.

899
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 2: Yes, and on the platform where you purchase it, especially

900
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 2: so if you do go onto the River or the

901
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: Amazon's or these other places, you know, just and you

902
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: bought your book there.

903
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: Read it and just leave a review right there.

904
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, just say, hey, read the read the book, thought

905
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 2: it was great, took me into another world, whatever you

906
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: felt like, just and like, like Doug said, he reads

907
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: that he sees that and it makes him inspired to

908
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: or even fulfilled.

909
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.

910
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think you know, you're like, hey, you

911
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 2: read my book, you know, thank you exactly right, just

912
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 2: straight respect.

913
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, one hundred percent. I'm the same way.

914
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,479
Speaker 2: I have a couple of movies I'm in and whether

915
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 2: they like it or not, if they leave feedback. I'm like, Okay, yeah,

916
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess I could have been better, or hey,

917
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 2: yeah I was, I was better than that.

918
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 3: I was. I did really great.

919
00:46:59,239 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

920
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 2: So it's just the it's just like you know it,

921
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: just we read it, we see these things, and when

922
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: I write my book, I'm gonna have it out there,

923
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: so you guys can all comment down below as well.

924
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly right, but right now.

925
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 2: The main man of the hour who took his precious

926
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 2: time to spend with us is Doug Norton, And you know,

927
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 2: on his website he says, support local independent bookstores like

928
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: Old Fox Books, Park Books, the Last Word bookstore. Here

929
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: in Utah, we have Weller's Books down on Main Street,

930
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 2: So go check out Weller's. You know, support the local guy,

931
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 2: the mom and pops that are out there who have

932
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,240
Speaker 2: been making these gyms available for our minds for years.

933
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 2: Believing in books, Hey books one percent, and so you know,

934
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: with that, I just want to say thank you so much,

935
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: and I want to let you know that you're welcome

936
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 2: back on the show. There's so much more I would

937
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 2: love to talk to you about, Like was there any

938
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: waves that took you down or was there this or

939
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 2: was there that you know, there's just so much I mean,

940
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: I mean, I just hit you with the coffee mug.

941
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 4: You know, now you have to you have to be

942
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 4: careful about about inviting inviting a former naval person to

943
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 4: tell sea stories. They can go on forever, as your

944
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 4: father probably would would tell you.

945
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,439
Speaker 2: He would, yes. And I want to know all about

946
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: the kraken, yeah, yeah. And I want to know about

947
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 2: Davy Jones and why he has a locker and why

948
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 2: is it at the bottom of the ocean.

949
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you very much. I've really enjoyed being here.

950
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 4: I hope that some of what I've had to say

951
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 4: will encourage others to sit down in front of the

952
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 4: word processor and write, because we've all got stories and

953
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 4: us that's for sure.

954
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: Well, well, Doug Norton, uh selfless service to our nation

955
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: and to your fellow neighbor and to your family. I

956
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 2: already know that's how you're built. I can sense it

957
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: from you, and everybody that's around you is blessed.

958
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 3: And fortunate to have you in their life.

959
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: And I also would like to see the war stop

960
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 2: in Gaza at some point soon, so that you know,

961
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: we can move forward with a normal life in our world.

962
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: And Doug Norton Code Word Precipice out now. The next

963
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: chapter in the Code Word series is waiting for you,

964
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: so go check it out and buy it and support

965
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: my Skipper, my main man, my bro right here, Doug Norton,

966
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: what a pleasure to have you on the show. And

967
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 2: thank you to Charlotte Okay for arranging all of this.

968
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: Let's give her a shout out on the show.

969
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 4: And Charlotte publicist, wonderful person.

970
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you Charlotte, and thank you again. And on

971
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: behalf of Brandon Webb at Soft Rep who was in

972
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 2: the Navy.

973
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 3: Gotta shout him out right.

974
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 2: This is based off the Navy seals here, you know,

975
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: that's what these guys are so, you know, and myself

976
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: and my producer and Doug, I just want to say peace.

977
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 4: Peace, and thank you very much, my pleasure to be here.

978
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, sir, thank you Skipper.

979
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Self Red Radio.

980
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: H