WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Mina and David Swan 0:00:08.285 --> 0:00:11.445 School of Humans. 0:00:12.765 --> 0:00:17.205 On Saturday, September twenty ninth, twenty eighteen, neighbors on a 0:00:17.285 --> 0:00:20.805 quiet street in a quiet neighborhood in Clearwater, Florida were 0:00:20.805 --> 0:00:25.445 getting worried. But in this case, the suspicious activity wasn't 0:00:25.485 --> 0:00:27.765 from anything that was actually going on. It was kind 0:00:27.765 --> 0:00:31.245 of the opposite. The neighbors were concerned because things were 0:00:31.245 --> 0:00:33.085 a little bit too quiet. 0:00:33.365 --> 0:00:34.445 They had their eyes. 0:00:34.205 --> 0:00:36.925 On a little, one story white house at ten thirty 0:00:36.925 --> 0:00:40.405 three Flushing Avenue, where eighty eight year old David Swan 0:00:40.565 --> 0:00:44.965 and his wife, eighty year old Minu Swan lived. They 0:00:45.045 --> 0:00:47.485 had lived in that home for the past twenty years. 0:00:48.045 --> 0:00:51.005 Mina had actually lived there for forty years. This was 0:00:51.005 --> 0:00:54.045 a second marriage for both David and Mina. She had 0:00:54.085 --> 0:00:56.605 lived there with her first husband until he passed away, 0:00:56.725 --> 0:00:59.045 and then later made a home there with David, her 0:00:59.045 --> 0:01:03.005 second husband. According to friends and family, David and Mina 0:01:03.285 --> 0:01:05.845 were in a very happy marriage. They had had no 0:01:05.885 --> 0:01:10.565 known enemies, and they had a really regular routine. They 0:01:10.645 --> 0:01:14.045 always came out to get their newspaper. They had a 0:01:14.045 --> 0:01:17.005 neighbor across the street named Joel Locke who lived there 0:01:17.085 --> 0:01:20.725 with his father, John Locke. Now Joel told police that 0:01:20.805 --> 0:01:23.965 he last saw the Swans on Thursday afternoon at around 0:01:24.005 --> 0:01:28.845 three pm. Then on Friday they never walked outside to 0:01:28.845 --> 0:01:33.805 get the paper. Then over the weekend, Joel said he 0:01:33.965 --> 0:01:37.285 noticed that the Swan's lights were on, but again on Saturday, 0:01:37.325 --> 0:01:40.325 there was no sign of either David or Mina. So 0:01:40.445 --> 0:01:49.005 by Saturday he told police he was getting concerned. David 0:01:49.045 --> 0:01:51.365 and Mina had married later in life, so they never 0:01:51.405 --> 0:01:55.325 had any children together, but they had seven children between them. 0:01:55.885 --> 0:01:58.325 Both of them were involved in each other's children's lives. 0:01:58.325 --> 0:02:02.965 The families were close. Finally, on Saturday, a little before 0:02:03.005 --> 0:02:07.285 two pm, Joel got in touch with Mina's daughter, Noel Divine. 0:02:08.525 --> 0:02:11.045 It says in media reports that Noel had a key 0:02:11.125 --> 0:02:13.605 to the house, but in the end she didn't need 0:02:13.645 --> 0:02:15.965 to use it because Noel came to the neighborhood she 0:02:16.045 --> 0:02:20.685 lived nearby, and she and Joel approached David and Mina's house. 0:02:21.445 --> 0:02:23.765 They went in through the back door and it was unlocked, 0:02:24.405 --> 0:02:26.805 and what they saw when they walked in that house 0:02:27.005 --> 0:02:30.685 was horrific. David and Mina were at the kitchen table, 0:02:30.845 --> 0:02:34.565 slumped over in pools of blood. Forensic testing revealed they 0:02:34.565 --> 0:02:37.845 had been dead for at least a day, Joel Loppe 0:02:38.005 --> 0:02:42.725 told WFLA news Channel eight. Quote, Noel could not handle it. 0:02:43.165 --> 0:02:45.285 She ran out the door and I was with her 0:02:45.485 --> 0:02:50.765 right behind end quote. David and Mina were shot execution style. 0:02:51.205 --> 0:02:54.245 They were sitting at the kitchen table. David had been 0:02:54.285 --> 0:02:58.765 shot once, Mina multiple times. There was nothing stolen and 0:02:58.845 --> 0:03:00.205 no sign of forest entry. 0:03:03.485 --> 0:03:04.565 Of course, there. 0:03:04.405 --> 0:03:07.285 Were a lot of media reports after this case because 0:03:07.325 --> 0:03:10.765 it was shocking the murder of two elderly people, And 0:03:11.005 --> 0:03:13.125 what we kept hearing on the news was that this 0:03:13.245 --> 0:03:16.085 shock the town of Clearwater, which is a place probably 0:03:16.165 --> 0:03:20.805 best known for having a large presence of Scientology church members. 0:03:21.725 --> 0:03:24.405 A few early commenters on the case kind of wondered 0:03:24.445 --> 0:03:26.445 if Scientologists could have had something to do with it. 0:03:26.485 --> 0:03:28.965 But let me just say right off the bat, there 0:03:29.005 --> 0:03:33.125 is zero indication that Scientology had anything to do with 0:03:33.205 --> 0:03:35.525 these murders. So before I get a lot of calls, 0:03:35.565 --> 0:03:39.965 I just want to say that upfront, all we heard 0:03:40.045 --> 0:03:42.685 on the news was that David and Mina were this 0:03:42.805 --> 0:03:47.685 super happy older couple, and the headline has basically been 0:03:48.125 --> 0:03:51.245 who would want to kill this nice elderly couple who. 0:03:51.165 --> 0:03:55.845 Had no known enemies? But as hele Gong. 0:03:55.965 --> 0:03:59.485 Listeners know, I always try to look beyond the headlines, 0:03:59.605 --> 0:04:02.365 so I've spent a lot of time doing a deep 0:04:02.485 --> 0:04:05.965 dive into the probate records that followed these deaths. By 0:04:06.005 --> 0:04:09.445 the way, thank you Pinalis County, Florida, because this county 0:04:09.485 --> 0:04:12.045 does have a really good open record system. 0:04:14.045 --> 0:04:14.325 Now. 0:04:14.525 --> 0:04:19.005 Joel Locke, the neighbor, gave more details to another news organization. 0:04:19.765 --> 0:04:22.525 He said that when he was in that kitchen, he 0:04:22.645 --> 0:04:26.325 saw signs that food had been prepared. He said quote 0:04:26.685 --> 0:04:29.525 she meaning Mina, was face down and he was on 0:04:29.565 --> 0:04:32.485 his back. She was on one side of the coffee table. 0:04:32.645 --> 0:04:38.845 He was on the other side. So at least in 0:04:38.885 --> 0:04:42.125 the beginning, it seems as though they were just hanging 0:04:42.165 --> 0:04:45.005 out at home about to eat dinner when the killer 0:04:45.085 --> 0:04:49.365 walked in and shot them. Their obituaries focused on how 0:04:49.405 --> 0:04:53.085 happy David and Minus Swan were. According to his obituary, 0:04:53.605 --> 0:04:56.965 after retirement, David had fulfilled a lifelong dream of travel. 0:04:57.605 --> 0:05:00.925 He and Mina loved to have new adventures. He hiked 0:05:00.925 --> 0:05:03.365 the Appalachian Trail in two thousand and two, and his 0:05:03.445 --> 0:05:06.885 trail name was twinkletoes. Hyked part of it with him 0:05:06.885 --> 0:05:08.925 and her trail name was Artzy because she had been 0:05:08.965 --> 0:05:12.885 an art teacher. David had a private pilot's license. He 0:05:12.925 --> 0:05:17.485 and Mina traveled everywhere. They went to Europe, China, Chile, Argentina, 0:05:17.645 --> 0:05:21.445 the Panama Canal, Australia, New Zealand, the South Pacific. This 0:05:21.565 --> 0:05:25.445 list goes on and on. But again, even though they 0:05:25.485 --> 0:05:28.845 appeared to be living this idyllic lifestyle and apparently David 0:05:28.845 --> 0:05:32.525 had been this very successful CPA who was retired, I 0:05:32.645 --> 0:05:36.485 wondered what the real story was because now the police 0:05:36.525 --> 0:05:38.725 have admitted they're pretty much stumped. 0:05:39.925 --> 0:05:41.005 After these murders. 0:05:41.365 --> 0:05:44.885 They had no time of death and no suspects, and 0:05:45.205 --> 0:05:48.205 over three years later, this case is still unsolved. 0:05:49.005 --> 0:05:51.805 So who could have killed David and Minus one? 0:05:52.445 --> 0:05:55.525 Could it be someone like a tradesperson, Could it be 0:05:55.565 --> 0:06:00.365 a serial killer or someone targeting elderly residents, or could 0:06:00.405 --> 0:06:03.645 it be one of David's former business associates from Chicago, 0:06:04.645 --> 0:06:07.165 or was it some one a lot closer to home. 0:06:08.485 --> 0:06:13.405 I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. If 0:06:13.445 --> 0:06:15.205 you have a case you'd like me and my team 0:06:15.245 --> 0:06:17.605 to look into, you can reach out to us at 0:06:17.645 --> 0:06:20.565 our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven 0:06:20.605 --> 0:06:24.085 four four six one four five. That's six seven eight 0:06:24.285 --> 0:07:03.405 seven four four, six, one four or five. A week 0:07:03.525 --> 0:07:07.845 after David and Minus Swans were found, Chief Daniel Slaughter 0:07:07.885 --> 0:07:10.645 at the Clearwater Police Department held a press conference to 0:07:10.645 --> 0:07:11.645 talk about the murders. 0:07:12.245 --> 0:07:13.125 This is what he said. 0:07:13.965 --> 0:07:16.605 What I can share in the investigation is that David 0:07:16.645 --> 0:07:19.845 Emina we're seen alive on Thursday September twenty seventh in 0:07:19.965 --> 0:07:24.245 the early afternoon. From the investigation, we are looking closely 0:07:24.285 --> 0:07:27.525 at a twenty four hour window from Thursday September twenty 0:07:27.525 --> 0:07:31.405 seventh around three pm to Friday September twenty eighth about. 0:07:31.165 --> 0:07:32.805 At the same time three pm. 0:07:33.005 --> 0:07:35.845 Although our investigation is looking closely at that window as 0:07:35.885 --> 0:07:38.885 a suspected period of time when this offensive, these two 0:07:38.965 --> 0:07:42.245 murders occurred, the investigators are also looking at deeds outside 0:07:42.245 --> 0:07:45.485 of that window. I could share that David and Mina 0:07:45.805 --> 0:07:48.885 were both shot and killed, and has previously reported our 0:07:48.925 --> 0:07:50.205 homicide victims. 0:07:50.685 --> 0:07:51.525 The evidence does. 0:07:51.405 --> 0:07:54.805 Not indicate that the offender, I'm sorry, The evidence does 0:07:54.845 --> 0:07:57.085 indicate that the offender came with the intent to kill 0:07:57.165 --> 0:07:59.765 David and Miana. This does not appear to be a 0:07:59.845 --> 0:08:04.045 random out being vigilant and following simple common crime prevention 0:08:04.285 --> 0:08:07.085 techniques like locking your old, your car doors, your home doors, 0:08:07.125 --> 0:08:09.205 your garage doors is always a very crudent thing to 0:08:09.245 --> 0:08:11.605 do for safety, but we do not believe there is 0:08:11.925 --> 0:08:14.125 any reason for the rest of the community to be concerned. 0:08:14.645 --> 0:08:17.965 Clear Water Detectives and Penell's County Sheriff's Office friends especialists 0:08:17.965 --> 0:08:21.805 spent over forty hours working in the crime scene, documenting 0:08:21.845 --> 0:08:24.885 the crime scene, processing the crime scene, and collecting trace evidence. 0:08:25.405 --> 0:08:28.925 The collection trace evidence is very time consuming. Any person 0:08:28.965 --> 0:08:31.805 that entered the Swan home would leave trace evidence behind, 0:08:31.845 --> 0:08:33.165 and that would be in the form of pair. 0:08:33.125 --> 0:08:36.765 Fibers, skin cells, touch, DNA, a variety of different things. 0:08:37.445 --> 0:08:41.685 That those traceable substances were the very vitally important for 0:08:41.725 --> 0:08:44.165 our investigation, and so it's very important that we. 0:08:44.125 --> 0:08:46.845 Collect them in a very methodical manner and in a 0:08:46.925 --> 0:08:47.925 very appropriate manner. 0:08:48.485 --> 0:08:50.765 We know that in murder cases there's usually some form 0:08:50.805 --> 0:08:54.325 of a victim offender relationship. Investigators will therefore speak to 0:08:54.365 --> 0:08:56.765 anyone that had a relationship with the Swans. 0:08:56.565 --> 0:08:58.925 Whether it's family, friends, or business dealings. 0:08:59.325 --> 0:09:01.845 We're going to talk to everyone, and then anyone involved 0:09:01.925 --> 0:09:03.765 or connected to the family until we get to the 0:09:03.805 --> 0:09:04.325 bottom of it. 0:09:07.645 --> 0:09:12.205 So let's break down those statements. First, Chief Slaughter kind 0:09:12.205 --> 0:09:14.725 of clarified the window of time when David and Mina 0:09:14.805 --> 0:09:18.285 were killed. The last time the Swans were seen alive 0:09:18.405 --> 0:09:21.725 that was verifiable was Thursday, September twenty seventh at around 0:09:21.765 --> 0:09:24.805 three pm. Remember that's when the neighbors saw them come 0:09:24.845 --> 0:09:28.325 outside and pick up those newspapers. They didn't come out 0:09:28.365 --> 0:09:31.605 of their house on Friday or Saturday when Noel and 0:09:31.685 --> 0:09:35.485 Joel went into the house. So this is why investigators 0:09:35.485 --> 0:09:39.125 were concentrating on the twenty four hour window between Thursday 0:09:39.205 --> 0:09:42.725 at three pm and Friday at three pm. If the 0:09:42.805 --> 0:09:45.885 neighbor's reports are true, if the lights were left on 0:09:46.165 --> 0:09:49.605 all night on Thursday night, Thursday night, in my opinion, 0:09:49.765 --> 0:09:52.725 becomes the most likely time when they could have been murdered, 0:09:52.845 --> 0:09:56.565 especially if we believe Joel. If there was food on 0:09:56.605 --> 0:09:58.405 the counter that looked like they were about to eat dinner, 0:09:59.205 --> 0:10:03.005 the lights were on and the door was unlocked. Also, 0:10:03.165 --> 0:10:06.445 the Tampa Bay Times talked to a neighbor, Bob Anderson. 0:10:06.925 --> 0:10:09.765 Bob said his wife had gone by the Swan house 0:10:09.805 --> 0:10:12.485 on Friday to drop off some pamphlets and that nobody 0:10:12.605 --> 0:10:19.165 entered the door. Noel talked to reporters about her experience 0:10:19.245 --> 0:10:22.565 going into the house. She said, quote, when I heard 0:10:22.605 --> 0:10:25.045 the papers were building up, I just panicked. 0:10:25.565 --> 0:10:26.765 End quote. 0:10:26.925 --> 0:10:29.405 As she drove to her mother's house, she said that 0:10:29.485 --> 0:10:31.485 she was trying to tell herself there could be a 0:10:31.565 --> 0:10:34.805 rational explanation, maybe her mom and stepdad went off on 0:10:34.845 --> 0:10:38.365 a last minute trip. Then once she went into that 0:10:38.485 --> 0:10:43.365 house and saw those bodies, her world fell apart. She said, 0:10:43.445 --> 0:10:46.045 quote it was just a moment that I would never 0:10:46.085 --> 0:10:47.485 wish on anyone. 0:10:47.565 --> 0:10:53.885 It's my mother, and I couldn't help her. End quote. 0:10:54.125 --> 0:10:57.965 At the press conference and also later, law enforcements made 0:10:57.965 --> 0:11:00.845 a point to say this was likely an isolated attack, 0:11:01.485 --> 0:11:04.165 and they said the community did not need to be worried, 0:11:04.645 --> 0:11:07.405 which I think is a little bit misleading because what 0:11:07.445 --> 0:11:10.485 they mean is that this is a person who is 0:11:10.565 --> 0:11:14.485 targeting this one specifically. It's not some random person out there. 0:11:14.525 --> 0:11:18.085 But in my opinion, if someone killed a person, whatever 0:11:18.125 --> 0:11:21.645 their motivation was, and they're still out there, someone could 0:11:21.685 --> 0:11:25.245 find out about those killings, confront that person, and they 0:11:25.245 --> 0:11:27.725 could be in danger. So I get what the police 0:11:27.725 --> 0:11:29.765 are trying to do. Here they don't want the community 0:11:29.805 --> 0:11:32.485 to panic. But I do feel like, and I hear 0:11:32.525 --> 0:11:35.845 this statement often about the public not needing to be concerned. 0:11:35.885 --> 0:11:42.245 I don't think it's always that valid. So let's take 0:11:42.245 --> 0:11:44.165 a closer look at this couple. We're going to see 0:11:44.285 --> 0:11:47.805 very soon that there are two different versions of their 0:11:47.845 --> 0:11:51.445 life story that start to emerge, the official version and 0:11:51.485 --> 0:11:53.405 what I call kind of the unofficial version. 0:11:53.885 --> 0:11:56.045 This isn't meant with any kind of disrespect at all. 0:11:56.085 --> 0:12:00.205 By the way, everyone has secrets, but sometimes if you 0:12:00.245 --> 0:12:03.085 want to find out who killed someone who wanted them dead, 0:12:03.565 --> 0:12:05.765 you have to look behind some of these headlines that 0:12:05.805 --> 0:12:08.445 are just superficial. You have to try and discover some 0:12:08.485 --> 0:12:12.645 of their secrets. So we know the killing was very 0:12:12.725 --> 0:12:15.765 personal and that the Swans were targeted. So the question 0:12:16.005 --> 0:12:20.965 is who could have wanted to kill them and why. 0:12:22.005 --> 0:12:25.365 David Sidney Swann, Junior, and this is from his obituary, 0:12:25.765 --> 0:12:29.445 was born on April fifteenth, nineteen thirty. He was raised 0:12:29.445 --> 0:12:32.725 in Shreveport, Louisiana. He enlisted in the Navy, and after 0:12:32.765 --> 0:12:34.925 his naval service, he went to work for an accounting 0:12:34.965 --> 0:12:38.325 firm called Swift and Company in Chicago. He met his 0:12:38.365 --> 0:12:42.085 first wife, whose name was Eva Sorenson, in Chicago. He 0:12:42.165 --> 0:12:48.645 graduated from Northwestern University and became a CPA. He later 0:12:48.725 --> 0:12:51.325 worked at another firm, and he and his wife had 0:12:51.325 --> 0:12:55.725 four kids, Julia, Janet, Stephen, and a son named David. 0:12:56.525 --> 0:12:59.125 So David and his first wife raised their family. Then 0:12:59.165 --> 0:13:01.965 in the early nineteen eighties, they moved to Clearwater, Florida. 0:13:02.365 --> 0:13:05.285 David set up his own practice doing taxes, and eventually 0:13:05.605 --> 0:13:10.765 David and his first wife retired there. That's what I 0:13:10.805 --> 0:13:13.565 saw in the obituary. But there's something in that part 0:13:13.605 --> 0:13:16.685 of my brain that gets activated when I have insomnia, 0:13:16.725 --> 0:13:19.325 which is often, so one night I woke up and 0:13:19.365 --> 0:13:22.605 started looking through court records. It was like two am 0:13:22.685 --> 0:13:25.085 that night, and I found some court documents that mention 0:13:25.205 --> 0:13:29.525 a woman connected to David Swan named MacEwan. These court 0:13:29.565 --> 0:13:32.645 documents said that David was divorced from this woman. But 0:13:32.925 --> 0:13:36.965 I noticed that this alleged second wife was apparently never 0:13:37.085 --> 0:13:40.765 mentioned in his obituary. So that just got me wondering 0:13:40.885 --> 0:13:44.845 why not, why would that not be mentioned. Again, not 0:13:44.845 --> 0:13:47.405 trying to air any dirty laundry, but in a case 0:13:47.445 --> 0:13:51.125 where money could be involved, someone clearly had a grudge 0:13:51.125 --> 0:13:53.325 against this couple. So we need to try to cover 0:13:53.405 --> 0:13:55.925 all the facts. And these facts are, by the way, 0:13:55.925 --> 0:13:59.405 in public records if you look deep enough. And also, 0:13:59.565 --> 0:14:01.685 I feel like with a lot of these media reports, 0:14:01.725 --> 0:14:04.925 there's this kind of flippant idea that just because these 0:14:04.965 --> 0:14:08.765 people are elderly, that they're just this sweet little old couple. 0:14:09.525 --> 0:14:10.005 I don't know. 0:14:10.125 --> 0:14:12.245 Maybe it's because I watched The Golden Girls a lot, 0:14:12.365 --> 0:14:15.605 or because I have some very active older Southern women 0:14:15.645 --> 0:14:18.365 in my family, but I reject the notion that just 0:14:18.405 --> 0:14:21.165 because someone is older means they don't have drama or 0:14:21.245 --> 0:14:24.165 conflict or any kind of an inner life, or for 0:14:24.205 --> 0:14:28.365 that matter, that they're not capable of being criminals. Life 0:14:28.445 --> 0:14:33.125 is complicated no matter what age you are. So I 0:14:33.245 --> 0:14:36.885 need to find out more about this woman May and 0:14:37.045 --> 0:14:39.485 try and figure out what happened between her and David 0:14:39.565 --> 0:14:44.125 and where she is now. Mina was an art teacher. 0:14:44.205 --> 0:14:46.965 She taught at a local high school. She was married 0:14:46.965 --> 0:14:50.045 to her first husband, Harold, for many years. According to 0:14:50.085 --> 0:14:53.245 Mina's children, mine and Harold were very happy together. 0:14:53.765 --> 0:14:54.485 They had three. 0:14:54.405 --> 0:14:58.085 Kids, Noel, John, and William, and they were living in 0:14:58.165 --> 0:15:00.405 that home in Clearwater until he passed away in the 0:15:00.485 --> 0:15:05.525 late nineties, David and Mina met in Clearwater. They he 0:15:05.605 --> 0:15:10.245 started dating and married in nineteen ninety nine. Now, according 0:15:10.285 --> 0:15:15.565 to Noel in the deposition, David was actually her parents' accountant. 0:15:15.845 --> 0:15:19.365 He did some accounting work for Mina and her late husband, which, 0:15:19.405 --> 0:15:22.085 as we will see in a minute, Noel appears to 0:15:22.125 --> 0:15:25.165 have a big problem with. But let's go back to 0:15:25.205 --> 0:15:27.845 the murders. Months go by, and then over a year 0:15:28.205 --> 0:15:32.845 the police have no suspects. But then there's an item 0:15:32.885 --> 0:15:33.685 in a news. 0:15:33.405 --> 0:15:34.685 Report about a lawsuit. 0:15:35.085 --> 0:15:38.365 By the way, David's son, Stephen is the personal representative 0:15:38.525 --> 0:15:42.245 of David's estate and Mina's daughter Noel is the representative 0:15:42.245 --> 0:15:45.645 of her mother's estate. It turns out that Noel is 0:15:45.685 --> 0:15:49.525 suing Stephen and that the lawsuit is all about the 0:15:49.645 --> 0:15:52.965 estate and money. So we're going to try to follow 0:15:52.965 --> 0:16:00.405 that money. We need to answer the question of what 0:16:00.645 --> 0:16:05.125 exactly was going on with David and Minuswan's financial situation. 0:16:05.925 --> 0:16:09.645 We know that Mana owned her home and that David 0:16:09.725 --> 0:16:13.765 had been a successful CPA. The police said that they 0:16:13.805 --> 0:16:16.845 were living in a nice neighborhood and they had some investments, 0:16:16.845 --> 0:16:20.285 but these were not super wealthy people. But the probate 0:16:20.365 --> 0:16:23.045 records give us a lot more detail about what was 0:16:23.085 --> 0:16:27.245 going on behind the scenes with their finances. According to 0:16:27.285 --> 0:16:30.525 court documents, Mina and David Swan did have a prenup 0:16:30.525 --> 0:16:33.765 when they got married, and that prenup basically said that 0:16:33.805 --> 0:16:37.765 they would keep their finances separate, each one would provide 0:16:38.005 --> 0:16:43.085 for their own biological children. Mina's will also discussed her property, 0:16:43.165 --> 0:16:45.805 her house, and the will said if she and David 0:16:45.845 --> 0:16:48.765 stayed married and she died before him, he would have 0:16:48.805 --> 0:16:51.205 the right to live there for another six months, but 0:16:51.365 --> 0:16:55.805 basically he would not inherit it everything went to her children. 0:16:56.405 --> 0:17:01.245 But according to Noel, it wasn't that simple. Now here's 0:17:01.245 --> 0:17:05.205 where it gets a little bit bizarre. Because Noel is 0:17:05.485 --> 0:17:07.885 one of the main spokesperson for her mom and the 0:17:07.965 --> 0:17:11.605 family talked a lot with police. They participated in press conferences, 0:17:12.125 --> 0:17:15.325 and in the early press conferences, Noel would talk about 0:17:15.325 --> 0:17:18.245 her mom and David and how they were soulmates. She 0:17:18.325 --> 0:17:21.485 talked about him in a very endearing way. She said 0:17:21.565 --> 0:17:24.045 that they loved to garden. She talked about how they 0:17:24.045 --> 0:17:26.445 would have wine and cheese in the afternoons and they 0:17:26.485 --> 0:17:29.205 would walk their dog, whose name was Benji, around town, 0:17:29.965 --> 0:17:33.005 and she said something I remember well. She said they 0:17:33.045 --> 0:17:34.965 would end up giving their dog a little slice of 0:17:35.005 --> 0:17:37.805 the cheese, which I completely relate to. So it seemed 0:17:37.845 --> 0:17:41.445 like she believed they were this great match. But behind 0:17:41.485 --> 0:17:45.725 the scenes in twenty nineteen, it became clear that Noel 0:17:46.205 --> 0:17:52.805 was developing a different view of her mom and David's relationship. Now, remember, 0:17:52.925 --> 0:17:55.525 in the press conference, Chief Slaughter talked about all the 0:17:55.565 --> 0:17:57.885 evidence that police took from the scene. They talked about 0:17:57.965 --> 0:18:01.565 DNA testing, But some of the things that law enforcement 0:18:01.605 --> 0:18:04.285 have said since then have continued to lead me to 0:18:04.325 --> 0:18:09.085 believe that Dan probably won't be the key to this case. Now, 0:18:09.165 --> 0:18:11.565 this could be for a couple of reasons. It could 0:18:11.565 --> 0:18:14.445 be because whoever killed this ones wore gloves and was 0:18:14.525 --> 0:18:20.205 super careful. That's a possibility. But it's also possible that 0:18:20.525 --> 0:18:22.925 whoever killed this ones with someone who had been inside 0:18:22.965 --> 0:18:25.565 the home before, maybe a family member or a friend, 0:18:25.965 --> 0:18:28.165 someone who would have had a reason for their DNA 0:18:28.205 --> 0:18:32.005 to be present in there. That's also a possibility I've considered. 0:18:32.685 --> 0:18:35.885 In a later press conference, Detective Kinnicki, who became the 0:18:35.965 --> 0:18:38.605 lead investigator on the case, seemed to allude to this. 0:18:39.085 --> 0:18:42.205 He said, quote some cases are made on DNA or 0:18:42.205 --> 0:18:45.085 fingerprints or ballistics. I think this is going to come 0:18:45.125 --> 0:18:49.685 back to good old fashioned police work end quote. Police 0:18:49.765 --> 0:18:52.965 say several times this was not a random home invasion, 0:18:53.605 --> 0:18:56.565 and Chief Slaughter also said something that alluded to money 0:18:56.565 --> 0:18:59.725 being involved. He said, quote, while they didn't live a 0:18:59.845 --> 0:19:05.845 lavish lifestyle, both of them had investments end quote. So again, 0:19:06.165 --> 0:19:08.725 what was their net worth? Were they an elderly couple 0:19:08.765 --> 0:19:11.245 who lived simply? Was there a ton of money being 0:19:11.325 --> 0:19:14.805 hidden somewhere? What was going on? There are at least 0:19:14.845 --> 0:19:21.005 two versions of the story. David Swan's daughter, Julie Swan, 0:19:21.405 --> 0:19:24.165 publicly spoke out. She said that her dad was quote 0:19:24.485 --> 0:19:26.485 the type of person who was true to his word 0:19:26.765 --> 0:19:30.245 end quote. She said he was a successful accountant and 0:19:30.245 --> 0:19:34.605 he was generous with money. But Mina's daughter Noel, in 0:19:34.685 --> 0:19:38.965 her lawsuit, alleged something very different. She seemed to say 0:19:39.045 --> 0:19:41.445 in her lawsuit that David withheld money, that he was 0:19:41.525 --> 0:19:43.565 kind of cheap, and that he had done some business 0:19:43.565 --> 0:19:45.565 deals that had been, in her opinion, a. 0:19:45.525 --> 0:19:46.365 Little bit shady. 0:19:46.725 --> 0:19:49.765 She alleged that he had been controlling her mother's finances, 0:19:50.325 --> 0:19:53.005 and she said that she had discovered a lot of 0:19:53.045 --> 0:19:55.285 things in David's background that she was not. 0:19:55.365 --> 0:20:00.925 Aware of, so let's take a deeper look. 0:20:00.725 --> 0:20:04.245 At some of these allegations. On June twenty four, twenty nineteen, 0:20:04.365 --> 0:20:08.125 Noel filed her laws suit. She asked for compensation from 0:20:08.205 --> 0:20:12.565 David's estate for fourteen different items she listed there around 0:20:12.685 --> 0:20:16.565 half a million dollars in total. Stephen Swann said from 0:20:16.605 --> 0:20:19.565 the beginning that these allegations were ridiculous, that the estate 0:20:19.685 --> 0:20:22.765 did not owe that money, that his father and Mina 0:20:22.845 --> 0:20:26.685 had kept their finances separate. One of the items Noel 0:20:26.725 --> 0:20:29.645 said she had an issue with was a promisory note. 0:20:29.845 --> 0:20:33.525 It was signed in two thousand and six by David. Apparently, 0:20:34.005 --> 0:20:38.925 Mina Swan had homeowner's insurance on her home and David 0:20:39.005 --> 0:20:41.165 wanted her to drop the homeowner's insurance policy. 0:20:41.205 --> 0:20:42.245 He thought it was too expensive. 0:20:42.285 --> 0:20:44.445 So what happened was he signed this promissory note in 0:20:44.485 --> 0:20:48.045 two thousand and six saying he promised to pay twenty 0:20:48.125 --> 0:20:52.045 five hundred dollars to Mina every year and to put 0:20:52.125 --> 0:20:54.405 that money in an account so that if anything ever 0:20:54.445 --> 0:20:57.845 did happen, they would have money to do the home repairs. 0:21:00.005 --> 0:21:00.765 She agreed to. 0:21:00.725 --> 0:21:04.205 This, and they signed an agreement. He said he would 0:21:04.205 --> 0:21:06.765 deposit money every year that would equal what the premium 0:21:06.765 --> 0:21:09.525 would have been. If they ever needed that money, they 0:21:09.525 --> 0:21:11.885 would take it out of that fund, and David agreed 0:21:11.925 --> 0:21:14.845 to cover any amount that was in excess of that. Now, 0:21:14.845 --> 0:21:18.485 there's nothing necessarily alarming about that at all. David may 0:21:18.525 --> 0:21:20.525 have been totally right, it may not have been worth 0:21:20.525 --> 0:21:23.405 the money to have that insurance policy, but it's obvious 0:21:23.605 --> 0:21:26.725 from what Noel said in her lawsuit that she believed 0:21:26.725 --> 0:21:29.845 this was about more than that. She obviously had issues 0:21:29.925 --> 0:21:34.685 with David controlling her mother, so at first those payments 0:21:34.685 --> 0:21:36.885 were put into an account Noel said her mom had 0:21:36.925 --> 0:21:40.605 access to it. Then in June of twenty eighteen, the 0:21:40.685 --> 0:21:44.605 balance was transferred into a new Charles Schwab account. Mina 0:21:44.805 --> 0:21:47.485 was the joint owner of that account, but later Noel 0:21:47.605 --> 0:21:50.245 claimed the money was moved into another account, an account 0:21:50.285 --> 0:21:53.525 that only David had access to, and that wasn't Noel's 0:21:53.565 --> 0:21:57.405 only complaint. Noel also alleged that David failed to make 0:21:57.445 --> 0:22:00.805 payments that he agreed to make to her mother. Basically, 0:22:00.845 --> 0:22:04.405 she claimed David had been trying to hide money from 0:22:04.405 --> 0:22:07.525 her mother. Again, Steven Swann. 0:22:07.285 --> 0:22:10.045 Said this entire lawsuit was bogus. 0:22:10.205 --> 0:22:12.885 And in the end the court appeared to side with 0:22:12.965 --> 0:22:17.525 him because Noel's lawsuit was dismissed. But I want to 0:22:17.525 --> 0:22:20.205 dive into this a little bit because through Noell and 0:22:20.285 --> 0:22:24.645 Stephen's depositions we get two drastically different versions of this 0:22:24.885 --> 0:22:27.485 marriage that it seemed so perfect to the outside world. 0:22:28.405 --> 0:22:30.645 It's one of the only ways I can think of 0:22:30.645 --> 0:22:33.485 of really getting behind closed doors and finding out what's 0:22:33.485 --> 0:22:38.965 going on. Noel and her sister were both deposed, and 0:22:39.245 --> 0:22:43.405 they said David made their mother feel unsafe. They painted 0:22:43.405 --> 0:22:47.245 a completely different picture of the relationship between David. 0:22:46.965 --> 0:22:47.685 And Minus Wan. 0:22:47.805 --> 0:22:50.685 And again, I have no idea if any of this 0:22:50.925 --> 0:22:55.445 is true. They could be completely wrong. We just don't know. 0:22:56.005 --> 0:22:57.765 All I'm saying is that when we're trying to figure 0:22:57.765 --> 0:23:01.805 out victimology, it is crucial to understand how family members 0:23:01.845 --> 0:23:06.245 and friends view this relationship between David and Mina. Remember 0:23:06.285 --> 0:23:09.645 what I said about David's obituary and there being another 0:23:09.685 --> 0:23:11.725 woman who showed up in court records but who was 0:23:11.765 --> 0:23:15.205 not mentioned to the obituary. Well, the deposition seemed to 0:23:15.245 --> 0:23:19.965 confirm that, according to Noel's deposition, David was actually married 0:23:19.965 --> 0:23:24.205