Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. So I'm very pleased
Speaker 1: to be joined by one of the sort of really
Speaker 1: true leaders on European defense here is the Polish finance minister.
Speaker 1: They have got their NATO spending the highest as a
Speaker 1: proportion of GDP of all of the NATO countries. They're
Speaker 1: at four point one two percent, and I just heard
Speaker 1: from the finance minister that they're going to get a
Speaker 1: four point seven percent next year. So I really have
Speaker 1: to start the conversation there with you about sort of
Speaker 1: how do you get sort of a European concept. Where
Speaker 1: are these discussions across the sort of finance ministers over
Speaker 1: the last few days.
Speaker 2: Good morning for Poland and for Polish presidency. Defense and
Speaker 2: security is absolutely a top priority. So right now we
Speaker 2: are discussing with ministers of finance of all member states
Speaker 2: the ways to better finance our security in the coming years.
Speaker 2: It's obvious for us that the time to act is now.
Speaker 2: We just cannot eight for five years for another budget.
Speaker 2: We need to take actions now. So this is why
Speaker 2: we will discuss during ecofin council meetings ways to finance
Speaker 2: defense spending. And as you said, we need to have
Speaker 2: way stronger defense industry here in Europe?
Speaker 1: And is there do you think there's a concept that's
Speaker 1: emerging or at least ideas that are being discussed at
Speaker 1: your ministerial level about how exactly to do that right,
Speaker 1: because we've we've heard about maybe a five hundred billion
Speaker 1: euro of fund or maybe you know, countries coming together
Speaker 1: and saying, listen, we're going to form a sort of
Speaker 1: financial defense alliance. We might issue some bonds. Is there
Speaker 1: something that's sort of coming out clearly because some of
Speaker 1: the resistance that we've heard from, say the German finance
Speaker 1: minister has been well this we're not justly going to
Speaker 1: issue bonds for their own sake. We needed an idea
Speaker 1: to get behind and that is sort of an absent.
Speaker 2: It's a bit premature to say which of the prosions
Speaker 2: that are on the table will be best, but with
Speaker 2: no doubt there is a need for discussion, and our
Speaker 2: partners are also fully aware of fully aware of that.
Speaker 2: So my thinking is that first we need to know
Speaker 2: what precisely we need to buy, where are our weaknesses,
Speaker 2: and therefore, after having such a buying least, we need
Speaker 2: to address it.
Speaker 1: With financing right and also trying to also I think
Speaker 1: source some of the material within Europe. There was an
Speaker 1: also you're also quoted, I'm saying that you may also
Speaker 1: Poland may also issue dedicated defense bonds. Is that something
Speaker 1: that you're looking at? Sort of how big are you
Speaker 1: looking in terms of issue and how would that work?
Speaker 2: It's one of the it's one of the option. We
Speaker 2: have no problem with financing our defense spendings. It will be,
Speaker 2: as you said, four point seven percent of GDP next year.
Speaker 2: But right now we are really comfortable with financing.
Speaker 1: And then the sort of question of sort of the
Speaker 1: future of also support of Ukraine. Poland has been very
Speaker 1: sort of supportive of Ukraine, been one of the great
Speaker 1: sort of champions for the cause. You have the Trump
Speaker 1: administration coming in, is there something that more needs to
Speaker 1: be done? I mean, I understand that we've also now
Speaker 1: sort of got the forty billion or fifty billion from
Speaker 1: the Russian backed assets. Are you looking at doing more
Speaker 1: with the uncertainty of what a Trump administration could bring.
Speaker 2: The position of Polish government is clear. Our support for
Speaker 2: Ukraine must be stable and firm and it will be
Speaker 2: like that. And of course I'm really happy that there
Speaker 2: is this decision of US of passing this twenty billion
Speaker 2: dollars it will help Ukraine. Now we need to secure
Speaker 2: transferring of those funds to Ukraine as the country really
Speaker 2: needs it. And Poland will always advocate the interest of
Speaker 2: Ukraine as we do know that this is the place
Speaker 2: where we right now are fighting against Ukraine and one
Speaker 2: of the other against Russia.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, of course. And one of the other
Speaker 1: issues that brings with sort of uncertainty the Trump administration
Speaker 1: is tariffs and trade. But I want to talk to
Speaker 1: about another product sector of trade, which is mercosur vunderline.
Speaker 1: Having signed this agreement on Friday with Latin America, Poland
Speaker 1: has been very outspoken about this. What is your position?
Speaker 1: Do you intend to join a blocking minority to block
Speaker 1: the mercos or deal as it.
Speaker 2: Is, our position is very clear. Our Prime Minister said
Speaker 2: it very openly that we do not support this deal
Speaker 2: in this form, and it's obvious because we believe that
Speaker 2: the interest of farmers in Poland, but not only in
Speaker 2: Polant also in other European countries is not secured enough.
Speaker 2: And what is more, we have also doubts regarding the
Speaker 2: food safety and therefore our position is that we do
Speaker 2: not support this deal in its current form, and.
Speaker 1: Do you think you have enough sort of support to
Speaker 1: block it? I mean, have you spoken to the Italians
Speaker 1: and the French for example.
Speaker 2: I'm not the Minister of Trade, but from what I hear,
Speaker 2: both both France and Italy are not really one hundred
Speaker 2: percent convinced of this deal.
Speaker 1: And then the other sort of concern around France has
Speaker 1: been a potential spill over effect from what we've seen,
Speaker 1: the sort of instability. How much of that has been
Speaker 1: a conversation with ministers over the last few days and
Speaker 1: how concerned are you regarding the French instability we saw yields.
Speaker 2: Yes, of course we are discussing that. But even tomorrow
Speaker 2: we will have a wymor Trangle meeting with Minister of
Speaker 2: Finance of Germany and of France in Warsaw. We will
Speaker 2: discuss the economic situation of European Union, but also for
Speaker 2: sure we'll discuss politics and.
Speaker 1: When sort of. Bowland has also been one of the
Speaker 1: great sort of bright spots within the European economy. You
Speaker 1: have an estimate for growth next year of about four
Speaker 1: percent three point nine percent. There are some concerns that
Speaker 1: there are some risks to that, how confident are you
Speaker 1: in that forecast and what do you think could pose
Speaker 1: a risk to that growth forecast next year.
Speaker 2: I mean forecast is on a forecast, and what we
Speaker 2: see is a bit of the slowdown in the retail
Speaker 2: sales in Poland. Having said that, we are still one
Speaker 2: of the fastest growing economy in Europe and I do
Speaker 2: believe it will be like that in next year. We
Speaker 2: are still confident in the forecast of close to four
Speaker 2: percent GDP growth next year. For me, it's very important
Speaker 2: that we need a more balanced GDP growth. We need
Speaker 2: more investments. This is why our government is investing in infrastructure,
Speaker 2: in the first Polish nuclear plant, we have secured money
Speaker 2: for many infrastructure projects. But for me, it's also important
Speaker 2: to encourage private investments and this is why we are
Speaker 2: working hard on some capital markets changes.
Speaker 1: And I think potentially one of the risks to your
Speaker 1: growth forecast, and this is something that some of your
Speaker 1: colleagues have been very critical of the Central Bank governor,
Speaker 1: who has been accused of politicizing his rate decisions because
Speaker 1: favoring the other party, basically refusing to lower interest rates
Speaker 1: until after the election next year. Do you feel that
Speaker 1: the Central Bank is politicized.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not giving comments about central bank policy and
Speaker 2: Monetary Policy Council neither, as I believe that we do
Speaker 2: need an independent central bank. So as a Minister of Finance,
Speaker 2: I have to refrain from Sacher comments.
Speaker 1: Let me let me repose that in a slightly different way.
Speaker 1: Do you feel you have a clear because there needs
Speaker 1: to be communication between these two institutions, do you feel
Speaker 1: you have a clear understanding of what is guiding the
Speaker 1: central banker's decision.
Speaker 2: That's a that's a bit tricky question, and we have.
Speaker 2: Of course, there are some problems with the communication with
Speaker 2: the with the central central Bank. But it's not my
Speaker 2: job to to say negatively about about what central bank
Speaker 2: is doing right now. What I'm really interested is of
Speaker 2: course full of inflation, full of CPI. But at the
Speaker 2: same time we need a positive environment for investments and
Speaker 2: of course lower rates would be supportive
Speaker 1: Andreds of Madelansk you take