1
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:13,680
Speaker 1: How does a boy and all American boy scrubbed in

2
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:19,840
Speaker 1: sunshine somehow get tangled up with what is known as

3
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 1: a sextortion ring. When I say all American, that's just

4
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 1: what I mean. When you think American boy, you think

5
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:37,080
Speaker 1: of this kid, you think of Jordan de May in

6
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:42,919
Speaker 1: the last hours, A stunning bombshell in the case. I'm

7
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,880
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

8
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,480
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and serious xem one eleven.

9
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this.

10
00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 2: It's all short or they're almost going to break.

11
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,680
Speaker 1: In and throwing a little podcasts.

12
00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,840
Speaker 3: Tell us go the other way short to.

13
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 4: Me, ready perfectly, that's a kick six first turnover.

14
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 3: Of the games. Tell me he was an all American teenager,

15
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,480
Speaker 3: the homecoming king, beloved by his classmates.

16
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,040
Speaker 5: This is one of those cases that I will remember

17
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,040
Speaker 5: the rest of my life.

18
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,559
Speaker 3: It happened when Jordan received a message on his Twitter

19
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 3: account that appeared to come from a beautiful teenager who

20
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 3: said she wanted to be his friend. She even asked

21
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,400
Speaker 3: him to send her a naughty photo. He was suspicious

22
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 3: and even asked if it was a scam. Assured it wasn't,

23
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 3: he sent the photo right away. Jordan realized he was

24
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 3: being blackmailed. They threatened to send the photo to his

25
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,560
Speaker 3: family and all his friends at school.

26
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 5: He had to get money. They told him a thousand dollars.

27
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 5: He said, I don't have that. How much do you

28
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,640
Speaker 5: have three hundred dollars? We'll get rid of everything. Send

29
00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,800
Speaker 5: that three hundred dollars. So he sent it.

30
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 1: It didn't stop. At the beginning, you were hearing an

31
00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 1: announcer at a Michigan high school game. Jordan was the

32
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 1: star of the game yet again, followed by our friends

33
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 1: at Inside Edition and Sheriff Greg Zeibert. What happened? Why

34
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,560
Speaker 1: did this teen boy? And I can't stress it enough.

35
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:22,079
Speaker 1: You know, very often people somehow shame crime victims, such

36
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,240
Speaker 1: as what was she doing out jogging at four am?

37
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,240
Speaker 1: Or this boy had a juvenile delinquent record, he had

38
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,679
Speaker 1: been in and out of Juve Hall. Nothing like that,

39
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: nothing at all wrong the least bit with Jordan to

40
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:47,240
Speaker 1: May just a great, great boy. Now that boy is gone,

41
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 1: gone because of a sextortion ring. What is that with me?

42
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 1: An all star pedalty make sense of what we know

43
00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: right now and a stunning development in the case. But

44
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 1: first I want to go to a very special guest

45
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 1: that I've thought of a million times since I learned

46
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:16,160
Speaker 1: about Jordan's death. John DeMay is Jordan's father. Mister DeMay,

47
00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.

48
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,519
Speaker 2: Thanks. We really appreciate the opportunity to share our story because,

49
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 2: as you said, it's extremely important and at this point,

50
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 2: this is the legacy that we need to carry for

51
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,960
Speaker 2: Jordan and his story. In my opinion, where we are

52
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,480
Speaker 2: staying with thousands of lives by helping other teenagers and

53
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 2: young people and parents learn about this and deal with it.

54
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,119
Speaker 1: I wish we were meeting under other circumstances. But by

55
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: telling this story, Jordan's story for him and your story,

56
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 1: just imagine, mister DeMay, all the lives you may be

57
00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:04,960
Speaker 1: able to change. What the night that you heard an

58
00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 1: unusual sound in your home.

59
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,440
Speaker 2: The Jordan took his own life on March twenty fifth,

60
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 2: on an early Friday morning, about three forty five am,

61
00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 2: the day that we were poised to leave for a

62
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 2: two week Florida vacation, he received a Instagram message from

63
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,239
Speaker 2: what appeared to be a young lady who is reaching

64
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 2: out for friendship. He received this first message on ten

65
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,280
Speaker 2: fifteen ish that Thursday evening and started communicating with her.

66
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 1: And wait, mister DeMay, the girl writing him, or so

67
00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:46,040
Speaker 1: he thought, so cute, just off the chart cute, of course,

68
00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 1: he responded. And it's my understanding that the girl that

69
00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,840
Speaker 1: ostensibly was writing him is a real person. Like if

70
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: he had bothered to, which I doubt a tea boy

71
00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: is going to, but if he had bothered to, look,

72
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 1: she was actually a real person that exists in the world.

73
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:04,800
Speaker 6: Yep.

74
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, And that's that's the that's the part of

75
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 2: the crime that makes it so hard.

76
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 6: Uh.

77
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,480
Speaker 2: That Instagram account, looking back on what we know now

78
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,080
Speaker 2: was actually was was a hacked account, So it was

79
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 2: a real account with with real pictures of that real person.

80
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 2: So he had no no reason to believe that it

81
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 2: wasn't her at the time. Then what happened The communication continued,

82
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 2: the conversation escalated into you know, probably more sexual content.

83
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,480
Speaker 2: We don't have a full transcript of what happened yet,

84
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 2: as you know, as part of the investigation so we're

85
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,159
Speaker 2: not here, we do a lot of the details. But

86
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 2: as you can imagine that it progressed and to the

87
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 2: point where she being one Danny Roberts was the Instagram

88
00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 2: user on the other end, the young female. She enticed

89
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 2: him to take a nude photo of himself, which he

90
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 2: did and sent to her at that time. Once the

91
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 2: photo was sent, and then the script switched and the

92
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:09,040
Speaker 2: extortion happened immediately. That was somewhere just after midnight when

93
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,280
Speaker 2: that happened, and then from from that point on it

94
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 2: was pure torture pressure.

95
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 1: When you say, mister DeMay, that the script switched around midnight,

96
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 1: he thinks he's talking to this cute teen girl and

97
00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,719
Speaker 1: she they're going back and forth. I mean, he's a

98
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 1: seventeen year old boy. She's enticing him. Of course, she

99
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,400
Speaker 1: starts talking about sex and he follows right along, and

100
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,280
Speaker 1: she asks for this picture, a nude picture. He sends it.

101
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,320
Speaker 1: And then you say that night Florida vacation happening in

102
00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 1: seven or eight hours, the script switches. This interesting the

103
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,040
Speaker 1: way you said that, the words you use, What do

104
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:55,720
Speaker 1: you mean by that?

105
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,280
Speaker 2: I just mean that it once the picture was sent,

106
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,279
Speaker 2: Jordan was had right and and they made it clear

107
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,599
Speaker 2: that they he they were not young and a young woman,

108
00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,880
Speaker 2: but young men, and he realized that he had made

109
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 2: a mistake. At that point, I'm sure and the you know,

110
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,040
Speaker 2: the the demands for money started to happen and they

111
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 2: they wanted money from him.

112
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 1: And where is a tame boy going to get that

113
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,040
Speaker 1: kind of money? But he sends money, he agrees to

114
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 1: send money, and then they want more.

115
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that was part of the pressure tactic. I'm'm

116
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 2: assuming that they started out at around one thousand dollars

117
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,840
Speaker 2: and there was some negotiation that was happening between them,

118
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:47,840
Speaker 2: and Jordan ultimately paid him around three hundred dollars. And

119
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 2: you know, he was they were they were pushing him

120
00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,600
Speaker 2: to get more and he didn't have more, and he

121
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 2: was trying to prove that he didn't have more, and

122
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 2: it was just it was they just kept on him

123
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,160
Speaker 2: and on him and on him, think him any time

124
00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 2: to breathe, any time to think, anytime to.

125
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:06,040
Speaker 1: And the embarrassment he felt he would suffer if that

126
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 1: nude photo of him was sent to you, his mom,

127
00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,040
Speaker 1: his family, all of his friends. Can I tell you something.

128
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,239
Speaker 1: We have these Easter photos done and Christmas photos done

129
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:24,880
Speaker 1: every year, and they're really pretty of my daughter and son.

130
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 1: They're really well, they're beautiful. I'm just thinking about your

131
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:37,720
Speaker 1: son and it's so interesting. My daughter every year, even

132
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,640
Speaker 1: with these gorgeous photos. She's mom, please don't post it.

133
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 1: I look awful and she's gorgeous, all right, So I'm

134
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,199
Speaker 1: just imagining it. Maybe other adults may not understand it,

135
00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:55,240
Speaker 1: but they're actually very, very sensitive. And if she doesn't

136
00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 1: want her beautiful Easter photo sent out or posted. Can

137
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,320
Speaker 1: you imagine all your parents listening right now, what a

138
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:10,320
Speaker 1: teen boy, this awesome student, awesome football player, you know,

139
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,160
Speaker 1: king of the Hill, what that would mean to him

140
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,960
Speaker 1: in his world for that photo to go out to

141
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:23,440
Speaker 1: all of his friends. Mister DeMay, I'm just thinking about

142
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 1: all of this happening with your son, and his family

143
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 1: is right there, probably asleep down the hall, having no

144
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,520
Speaker 1: idea the torment that he's going through.

145
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,960
Speaker 2: That's correct. I saw Jordan for the last time. He

146
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 2: came home at ten fifteen, and I believe that's when

147
00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,800
Speaker 2: he opened up his phone and saw the first messages

148
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 2: rate when he pulled in our driveway, and I was

149
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,440
Speaker 2: just about ready to go to bed because we had

150
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 2: a long day the next morning traveling. Our other two

151
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 2: kids were already asleep, my wife was finishing up laundry

152
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,320
Speaker 2: and getting ready final packing for our vacation. But I

153
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,600
Speaker 2: ran into Jordan and outside on our patio for a

154
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,600
Speaker 2: brief moment as he was walking and I was heading

155
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 2: to the garage quick and that was the last time

156
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 2: I'd seen him. But looking back, that was literally minutes

157
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 2: after he received his first message, and within ten minutes

158
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,480
Speaker 2: I was in bed sleeping and I never saw him again.

159
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 2: I woke up to finding him in his bedroom.

160
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,760
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take it everything you're saying. I

161
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,239
Speaker 1: know it's hard for a lot of adults to understand,

162
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:57,560
Speaker 1: but to attain having that embarrassment is overwhelming. Prime Stories

163
00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace with me an all star panel to

164
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,959
Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now. But in

165
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,439
Speaker 1: the last hours, a stunning turn in the case. First,

166
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to this.

167
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,559
Speaker 3: The pressure kept up to send more money.

168
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,080
Speaker 5: He said, you win, I'm going to kill myself and

169
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 5: they're like, go ahead.

170
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,720
Speaker 3: So they actually responded when he said that he was

171
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 3: going to kill himself, they responded, go ahead.

172
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 1: Yes.

173
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 3: From the time Jordan got the message until his death,

174
00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,520
Speaker 3: just six hours had passed. Sheriff Greg Zeibert has a

175
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:36,920
Speaker 3: message for teens.

176
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,960
Speaker 5: This can happen to you, and if it does, you

177
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:40,880
Speaker 5: need to reach out.

178
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 7: Hurtz will forever be broken with a huge part of

179
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 7: our lives missing.

180
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 4: Jennifer Bhuta has been mourning the loss of her seventeen

181
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 4: year old son, Jordan de May, who died by suicide

182
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,439
Speaker 4: on March twenty fifth, twenty twenty two. De May was

183
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,840
Speaker 4: a victim of sextortion. Sextortion is where someone demands money

184
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,560
Speaker 4: or sexual favor from an individual by threatening to reveal

185
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 4: evidence of their sexual activity.

186
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,240
Speaker 1: As parents, we cannot begin to imagine what Jordan went

187
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,480
Speaker 1: through that night and how scared he was because of

188
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,600
Speaker 1: this senseless to act. You were just hearing our friend

189
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,960
Speaker 1: Les inside edition and our friends at WNEM joining me

190
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 1: right now. Elizabeth Peterson, morning news anchor reporter wl UC

191
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,960
Speaker 1: TV six. Elizabeth, thank you for being with us in

192
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 1: the last hours. An extradition has gone down. Who is

193
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 1: being held responsible for Jordan's death? And where are they from?

194
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 7: Yeah? Two of the defendants have been extradited from Nigeria.

195
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 7: They arrived and had their first hearing here in the

196
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,520
Speaker 7: United States and we don't know a lot about them,

197
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,319
Speaker 7: but it was a successful extradition. There's a third defendant

198
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,600
Speaker 7: that extradition is still pending extradition.

199
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 1: What is it and how does it happen all the

200
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:02,839
Speaker 1: way from Nigeria? I mean, mister DeMay, this is Jordan's dad.

201
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: What went through your mind when you realized that it

202
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 1: was not some young girl sending photos to Jordan? It

203
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 1: was two guys in Nigeria running a scam and it

204
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 1: ended in Jordan's death.

205
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,480
Speaker 2: It was, it was a lot of different emotions at

206
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,079
Speaker 2: that point. It was it was very difficult at first

207
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,200
Speaker 2: because we hadn't learned about what even happened to Jordan

208
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,320
Speaker 2: for a day to day and a half. So the

209
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 2: first day day and a half.

210
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:32,720
Speaker 6: We had no idea.

211
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 2: We only learned about the Once we learned about the picture,

212
00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 2: then there was almost a sense of relief a little

213
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 2: bit because it wasn't it wasn't an answer, but it

214
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,480
Speaker 2: was something, you know, it was it was some sort

215
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,600
Speaker 2: of it was some sort of story that that wasn't

216
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,199
Speaker 2: out yet, but we knew that there was something behind this.

217
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 2: And then to find out what actually happened a couple

218
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 2: days later, once the law enforcement took over and invest

219
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 2: gated it past to the FBI and they started their

220
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,679
Speaker 2: case and discovered that it was actually purposeful and that

221
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 2: these were these were men. It's not surprising in today's

222
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,440
Speaker 2: world that that it happened, but it was a shock

223
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,760
Speaker 2: that it happened to us, of course, and to learn

224
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 2: that it was already something that was labeled sextortion. I mean,

225
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard that turn yet. Again, it didn't surprise

226
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,040
Speaker 2: me that this sort of thing would happen online, but

227
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 2: it was surprising that it was already something that was

228
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 2: already labeled and it was already happening quite often. Frankly,

229
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 2: the FBI, I believe, had sent out publications just prior

230
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 2: to Jordan's death about sextortion and the rise of these

231
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,440
Speaker 2: types of cases that were coming to the law enforcement communications.

232
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 2: So it was just it was just the overwhelming feeling

233
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 2: of sadness and confusion and just it just changed every minute.

234
00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 1: Is that one of the photos the photo Jordan without

235
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 1: his clothes and was sent to his girlfriend.

236
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:03,720
Speaker 2: Correct.

237
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 1: So these guys and I have their names, Samuel Agoshi

238
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:15,480
Speaker 1: and Sampson Agoshi to Nigerian nationals from legos that were

239
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,280
Speaker 1: sextorting Jordan and probably many many other young teens in

240
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 1: the US. They actually carried through with the threat in

241
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 1: that they sent that photo to Jordan's girlfriend, and they

242
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 1: probably sent it under the guys the disguise of being Danny.

243
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 1: So the girlfriend gets a naked photo of her boyfriend

244
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 1: and it's from another girl ostensibly. Did that happen.

245
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 2: I don't have the particulars how exactly that happened, but

246
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 2: I can infer that that's probably the way that that

247
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 2: worked out. I know that she did receive the photo.

248
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,640
Speaker 2: That is the only person that we're aware of at

249
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 2: this point that actually received it. They went through great

250
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 2: lengths during the extortion part to make George believe that

251
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 2: they actually sent that picture out.

252
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 1: They have.

253
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,120
Speaker 2: They have a process that they use like any other business,

254
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 2: and they create fake screenshots, they create collage photos, and

255
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,840
Speaker 2: they put all this media together to make you feel

256
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,040
Speaker 2: like they're really sending this out to everybody. So as

257
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 2: they're asking for more money, they're saying, oh, look who

258
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 2: we sent it to. Look who we sent it to.

259
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 2: We're sending this this person next. In reality, nobody nobody

260
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 2: received those photos. The only person that did was his girlfriend,

261
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,440
Speaker 2: And frankly, we're thankful that that happened, because if had

262
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,720
Speaker 2: she not received that photo, we probably would not even

263
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 2: know what happened today.

264
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: Why do you say that, because there there would.

265
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 2: Have been no way to discover it.

266
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 8: It was.

267
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 2: It was a suicide, It was investigated by the Sheriff's

268
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 2: department appropriately, and it would have been a case closed suicide.

269
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 2: His social media accounts he erased everything before he died,

270
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 2: so he was trying Jordan was trying to cover up

271
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 2: his tracks. Little bit, probably an embarrassment piece. So when

272
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 2: at face value, there wasn't anything out of the.

273
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,880
Speaker 1: Ordinary, so you would never have known your absolutely correct,

274
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 1: mister DeMay. Doctor angel Arnold joining me renowned psychiatrists out

275
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction at ANGELA Arnold MD dot com.

276
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 1: Doctor Angie, have you ever noticed that despair, depression, confusion

277
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 1: seems to overtake people and it gets worse at night.

278
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,680
Speaker 1: Is that real or is that just anecdotal? Because here

279
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 1: this little boy is, he's a teen boy living with

280
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 1: his family and in the middle of the night he

281
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 1: ends up dead out of despair and embarrassment. Is that

282
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,240
Speaker 1: real that it's worse at night?

283
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,400
Speaker 9: It is in Nancy because people are more vulnerable at night.

284
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,119
Speaker 9: You're tired by the end of the day. What I

285
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 9: believe that what we need to understand as adults is

286
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 9: the is how our children use social media. We don't

287
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 9: completely understand it, Nancy, because we didn't grow up in

288
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 9: this age. But social media is a lot to these kids.

289
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 9: They and they connect with their friends. They instantly connect

290
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 9: with their friends, they share their lives through photos and

291
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 9: things like that, and these predators know that. Okay. Then

292
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 9: the point, the other point I want to bring up

293
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 9: is that you add that to the fact that it

294
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 9: really is true, Nancy, that kids' brains are not fully

295
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:35,919
Speaker 9: developed until they're twenty.

296
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 2: Five years old.

297
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 9: Okay, so it's not unusual what this sweet, little wonderful

298
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,879
Speaker 9: boy did. It is not unusual. Unfortunately, kids do it

299
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 9: all the time because somebody asks for a picture of

300
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,720
Speaker 9: them and it's a beautiful girl, and they, you know,

301
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 9: they get all you know, fluttery inside, and they do

302
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 9: what she says. They lose their sense of right wrong

303
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 9: because they're little, Nancy, they're young. Their brains are not developed.

304
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 9: You and I can easily put that away, right, we

305
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 9: can say, uh, oh, there might be some trouble there,

306
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,000
Speaker 9: but we have age and experience and our brains are developed.

307
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 9: They do not, so then they isn't it interesting that

308
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,160
Speaker 9: they get him at night when he's already vulnerable. I'm

309
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 9: sure the child had very, very busy days, right, he's

310
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 9: vulnerable at night. Then some beautiful girl, I mean Nancy.

311
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 9: I don't know about you, but Nancy. People people like

312
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 9: send me messages on Instagram all the time, these weird men,

313
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 9: and they go hello, and I'll automatically hit block and delete.

314
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 9: I think anyone who has a presence on the Internet

315
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 9: is vulnerable for this.

316
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: Guys, I want you to take a listen to our

317
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 1: cut sixteen our friends at W N, A, M and

318
00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 1: l UC.

319
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 4: It turns out the Mark Native was wrapped up in

320
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,160
Speaker 4: what authorities are calling an international sextortion ring. Three men

321
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 4: are accused of targeting more than one hundred miners and

322
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 4: adults in a sextortion scheme. After a lenk the investigation

323
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 4: between local, state and federal agencies, three men from Nigeria

324
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 4: are set to be extradited to the US to face

325
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 4: criminal charges.

326
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 10: Three men from Nigeria purchase hacked social media accounts, created

327
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 10: fake users, and ultimately persuaded to May to send a

328
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 10: sexually explicit photo, which they used to extort him for

329
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 10: money when he wasn't able to pay them enough.

330
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,120
Speaker 7: He died by suicide.

331
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: Joining me now is a very well known and respected

332
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: international lawyer, David to Fury, and you can find him

333
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: at David to Furi at Arrant Law Firm. David, thank

334
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Explain this whole process of extradition.

335
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 1: I assume that we have a treaty with Nigeria. How

336
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 1: does it work.

337
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 11: Yes, we have a treaty with Nigeria. It actually goes

338
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 11: all the way back to nineteen thirty one when Nigeria

339
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 11: was a colony of the United Kingdom, and so when

340
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 11: we engaged in an entered into a treaty for extradition

341
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 11: with the United Kingdom, it included all of the United

342
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 11: Kingdom's colonies. After Nigeria became independent, I believe in the

343
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 11: nineteen sixties, it continued to be a bilateral party to

344
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 11: that treaty with the US. It's also notable for this

345
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 11: case that the US is the largest investor in Nigeria.

346
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 11: We have had very close relations between the US and

347
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 11: Nigeria over recent years. It's probably one of the most

348
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 11: important countries for the US in Africa. That's important because

349
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 11: that's probably how the FBI and the Department of Justice

350
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 11: were able to secure the cooperation of law enforcement authorities

351
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 11: in Nigeria in order to apprehend these individuals and take

352
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 11: them through the extradition process. Extradition can be very complicated

353
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,239
Speaker 11: and it's not easy to accomplish. Importantly, you have to

354
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 11: have committed a crime that is a crime in both countries,

355
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,399
Speaker 11: both the country where you are and the country that

356
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 11: is seeking to extradite you. And many times people who

357
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 11: are overseas or able to avoid extradition with various defenses.

358
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 11: It also can be a long legal process. In this case,

359
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 11: it happened quite quickly, and I'm pretty amazing.

360
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 2: I think that's the importance of this case.

361
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 11: And because the US law enforcement authorities probably really wanted

362
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 11: to make a statement to set an example to try

363
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 11: and deter others in Nigeria or other countries in Africa

364
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 11: from doing this, and because of the tragedy of this case,

365
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 11: they wanted to make a statement, and so they accomplished

366
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 11: that by getting these individuals brought back here. Of course,

367
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 11: they still are innocent until proven guilty under our legal system,

368
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 11: but they'll go through a trial here, and the evidence

369
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 11: sounds overwhelming, so you can expect probably that they will

370
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 11: be convicted.

371
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: But let's see, David Tafuri is joining me, renowned international lawyer.

372
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: Got a couple of questions following up. And you know

373
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: John de May is with us. This is Jordan's dad.

374
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: All he knows at that time is his son is dead.

375
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 1: No idea of all of this swirling so far away

376
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: in Nigeria, of all places. David Tafuri, why do you

377
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: say that Nigeria is one of the single most important

378
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: countries to the US in Africa.

379
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,199
Speaker 11: Nigeria's one of the largest countries in Africa. It's in

380
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 11: West Africa. It's strategically a very important place. It's a

381
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 11: place where we have put in a lot of investment.

382
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 11: It's also a country, by the way, where we are

383
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 11: competing with China to have a strong relationship. It's a

384
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 11: country that there are other countries in Africa that have

385
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 11: been affected by terrorism by transnational criminal groups. And we're

386
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 11: trying very hard to make sure that Nigeria stays stable,

387
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 11: that it doesn't become a failed state, that it doesn't

388
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 11: become subject to transnational criminal organizations. And so these are

389
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 11: all important reasons we want Nigeria because it's such a

390
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 11: big country and it's so important to the stability of

391
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 11: the continent. We want it to be stable, we want

392
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 11: it to be a close friend, a close ally. We

393
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 11: have a large presence in Nigeria. I am sure the

394
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 11: US Embassy in Nigeria was involved in this in terms

395
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 11: of going to the Nigerian government and conveying to the

396
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 11: Nigerian government how important it is for them to cooperate

397
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 11: on this case so that they can apprehend these individuals. Also, notably,

398
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 11: Nigeria is a place where there are a lot of

399
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 11: cyber fraud cases. A lot of cyber fraud emanates from

400
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 11: Nigeria and Nigeria. The Nigerian government has been trying to

401
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 11: crack down on this, and this would also be an

402
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 11: instance where the Nigerian government wanted to demonstrate to the

403
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 11: US that they are cracking down on these types of

404
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 11: cyber crimes, especially given the tragic results from this one.

405
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 1: The I am a Nigerian Prince email I guess has

406
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: gone out to everybody as a scam or I am

407
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: stranded in Nigeria. Helped me I'm in Nigeria. Nigeria seems

408
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: to be the source of a lot of online internet fraud,

409
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: But how was this teen boy supposed to know that

410
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: no way, nothing was a red flag in his mind.

411
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: And even if this teen boy Jordan had thought, wow,

412
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: is this woman for real? Is this girl for real?

413
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: If he looked her up her computer, well, her online

414
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: services had been hacked as well. This is a real

415
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: girl who these Nigerian defendants had hacked. So when we

416
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: say we need cooperation, joining me now. IRV Brandt, Senior Inspector,

417
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: US Marshall Service, International Investigations, Chief Inspector DJ of International Affairs,

418
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: author of Solo Shot and Flying Solo, both on Amazon.

419
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: What I mean is earth brand has traveled all around

420
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: the world on behalf of the US government to let

421
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: me just say, make things happen within our justice system.

422
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: What we need is the Nigerian government to go and

423
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: find these guys, to arrest them, to bring them in

424
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: and then agree to an extradition process. That's a lot

425
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: when you are prosecuting your own cases and then suddenly

426
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: you get a request from somebody so far away in

427
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: the US to go do their business, You're like, ht, No,

428
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: they did it. They did it for us, for Jordan,

429
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: for his father, for his mother, And now we have

430
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: these defendants in our clutches. Can I give you an

431
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: example of extradition gone wrong? Think about Roman Polanski, the

432
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: famous film maker who drugs and rapes a little girl

433
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: in his hot tub and then goes to France. France

434
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: refuses to extradite him to the US. Think about it.

435
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: Think about Caitlin Armstrong. According to police, she just gunned

436
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: down a beautiful young biker bicyclist, a world class biker,

437
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: over a love spat. She flees to Costa Rica, has

438
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: plastic surgery, lives under the radar. You know how we

439
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: got her back. It's not because Costa Rica said hey, yeah,

440
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: I will I'll hope you extradite her. It's because of

441
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: a visa or passport violation. So when a country doesn't

442
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: cooperate with US, we have problems. Irv Brandt, How did

443
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: this go down? And would you there are a lot

444
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: of countries in this world that they don't give a

445
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: flying fig about the US or justice in the US,

446
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: or Jordan de may or his parents wanting justice. They

447
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: don't care. But Nigeria did cooperate.

448
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 6: That's correct, Nancy. And we've discussed it on many times before,

449
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 6: especially in places like Mexico, on how we can get

450
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 6: the cooperation of Mexican authorities to investigate cases properly. So

451
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 6: this is a stunning success. So I'm very impressed with

452
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 6: the FBI and the efforts of the Office of International Affairs.

453
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 6: But more to how impressed I am with the Ministry

454
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 6: of Justice in Nigeria to get their law enforcement to

455
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 6: cooperate with the Federal Bureau of Investigation to do a

456
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 6: joint investigation in Nigeria to identify these suspects, have them

457
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 6: arrested than have them extradited. So quickly they did this,

458
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 6: I'm just stunned. I was at the Office of International

459
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 6: Affairs as a chief inspector and if you would ask

460
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 6: me how long will it take, I would have told

461
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 6: you years.

462
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, and I just thank God in Heaven that

463
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: we've got these guys in a US courtroom. It's going

464
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: to happen. I want to go to doctor Michelle dupre Joining,

465
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: US forensic pathologist, medical examiner and lucky for me, former detective.

466
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: She literally wrote the book Homicide Investigation Field Guide, and

467
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: she shot to the national forefront during the case of

468
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: Alex Murdogg. Mayhe wrote in Hell, doctor Duprex, question, it's

469
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: so upsetting to see any death, much less a teen

470
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: a child death, less a child suicide. I mean, he's

471
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: gone before his life even really gets started. In your

472
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: experience and what you know about the method and assessment

473
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: of homicide and suicide, how common is this for teen

474
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: boys and teen girls to commit suicide. They're so emotional

475
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: and they're so vulnerable at this point in their lives.

476
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 8: Yes, Nancy, and all the condolences to the family of

477
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 8: this young man. This is so sad, and I have

478
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 8: seen it more times than you would want to see it.

479
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 8: It is relatively common, and it's because of this bullying

480
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 8: by other kids basically or young men in this case.

481
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 8: It's tragic, and I'm so thankful that something has been

482
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 8: done about it, and especially when we have to have

483
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 8: reached over so many different jurisdictions to get these guys

484
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 8: and bring them back. Who doos to all of those

485
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 8: who participated.

486
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: In this, Doctor Dupris, you know that teen suicides have

487
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: jumped twenty nine percent twenty nine percent among children between

488
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: fifteen and nineteen. Suicide second leading cause of death and

489
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: is the leading cause of death for fourteen to fifteen

490
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: year olds.

491
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 8: I did not know that, Nancy, but I'm really not

492
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 8: that surprised. Think about everything that our young people are

493
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,959
Speaker 8: going through today. You know there was I mean not

494
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 8: just the pandemic, but everything else that they are faced with,

495
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 8: the stresses, and you know, it's a different world than

496
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 8: when you and I were growing up, and a lot

497
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 8: of us don't understand it, and they are consistently bullied

498
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 8: more than you would suspect.

499
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace, you guys were talking about

500
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: a beautiful young boy. There's really no other way to

501
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: put it. Jordan to May, just like Mary Poppins says,

502
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: practically perfect in every way. John de Maay is with me.

503
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: This is Jordan's dad. What is your recollection of that

504
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: night and the following morning when Jordan lost his life.

505
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: Well, the night before was a pretty normal, chaotic trying

506
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: to get everything ready to leave on vacation for two

507
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: weeks kind of night, as Anyboddy with three kids and

508
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: two dogs is trying to do. So it was a

509
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: pretty normal evening in that sense. Obviously, in the morning

510
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 2: I woke up, my two younger girls were getting up,

511
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: and my wife had gotten up, and we're just kind

512
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: of milling around trying to get ready for the day

513
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: and Jennifer Jordan's mother had sent me a text message

514
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 2: and asked me if was you know, if he was

515
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: still home. And at that point, it was like seven

516
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: point thirty in the morning, which was really strained, and

517
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: I looked out the window and I saw I saw

518
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: it was carsonal in the driveway, and I thought that

519
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: was awfully strange because he never missed his school ever.

520
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: So at that point I went downstairs to his bedroom.

521
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 2: I opened up the door and I found him in

522
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 2: his bedroom.

523
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: I guess when you first saw him, you couldn't believe it.

524
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: I was stunned, shocked, numb, every my whole body was

525
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: just bailing me. I could barely stand up.

526
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: Oh, mister to May, I'm so sorry. I just imagining.

527
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: I guess every person listening to your voice right now

528
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: is thank you of that moment. They go in and

529
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: my daughter six o'clock and I can hear it. It

530
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: sounds like some kind of a sitar ding ding ding

531
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: ding play some kind of song something in God the

532
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: early hour. She gets up and I always go in

533
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 1: and check on her in case she goes back to sleep.

534
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: Then my son could sleep through a mack truck coming

535
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: through his window and I have to go literally get

536
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: him up, and I've done it a million times. I'm

537
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: just thinking about that moment when you open the door

538
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: and you see him. What did you do?

539
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: I just stood at his feet and started shaking, and

540
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: I think I wasn't even trying to talk to him,

541
00:34:53,600 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: like why, Jordan, you know why what happened? And I

542
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: remember I just slowly turned around and slowly walked back upstairs,

543
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 2: and my wife and my two and my one daughter

544
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: was sitting on the couch and I told my wife

545
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: that Jordan shot himself, and my youngest daughter freaked out,

546
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: and my wife freaked out, and everything started to happen

547
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 2: from there. Life changed that morning.

548
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: Mister de May, what do you make life changed that morning.

549
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, losing the child is the worst thing

550
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: that can one of the worst things that can happen

551
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: to anybody, but it sent a lot of it's well,

552
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: it started. It started a lot of different things in

553
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 2: our life personally outside from learning about sex stortion and

554
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: going public and doing all those great things. But you know,

555
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: we we lived in a home that was going to

556
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: be our forever home that we never went back to

557
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: that night. After that date, we went back to finish things,

558
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: but we ended up putting on the mark counturely after

559
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: sold it and now we're building a new home. So

560
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: just things like that, and and the way we interact

561
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: with our kids and the way that we, you know,

562
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 2: just go about daily life. There's it's just it's just

563
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: a different it's a different world for us. And you know,

564
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 2: Jordan's always in our in our thoughts and how we

565
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 2: and how we navigate the world. And and it's even

566
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: heightened more now with with being able to come forward

567
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: with with what happened and share the story and and

568
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: really create this message that that Jordan would be proud

569
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 2: of as well.

570
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: Mister DeMay, what is your message?

571
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 2: Our message is There are a lot of folks and

572
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 2: you know, we talked a little bit here with some

573
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: very professional people about the suicide and the rates, and

574
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: it's it's actually absolutely tragic h to see to hear

575
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: that those numbers are so high. But you know, let's

576
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: be honest. You know, social media is not doing any

577
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 2: favors for anyone, not children certainly, and not adults. And

578
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: I think the message needs to be that for parents,

579
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: it needs to be we need to pay more attention

580
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: to what's happening online and start understanding a little bit more.

581
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: And for kids that need. Younger people, I shouldn't say kids,

582
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: you young and young people and young adults even need

583
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: to understand that the the nature of what social media

584
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: is doing to you mentally, just in our story is

585
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: so so left field. I mean, it's it doesn't happen

586
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 2: to everybody, right, but let's boil it down into simple things.

587
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you've had a lot of podcasts about

588
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 2: bullying and body shaming these young ladies and trying to

589
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: get likes and feel goods and all the things. I mean,

590
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: all that stuff is not healthy. It's just not healthy

591
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: for people at all. So I think the message needs

592
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: to be we need to slow down with that stuff.

593
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: I think we need to go back to having real

594
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: relationships with people, having real conversations, trying to get young

595
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: people away from sending pictures and messages as you know,

596
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: sexual intent. You know, have real relationships with people, Be

597
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: out and about, be alive, enjoy the air, you know,

598
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: look around. But at the end of the day, we

599
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: have to tell people that if things happen, you know,

600
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: it's not the end of the world either. You know,

601
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: Jordan's story is so tragic, and this is something that

602
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 2: probably would would have been laughing about in ten or

603
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: fifteen years, after he's graduated college and gotten married and

604
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: had kids and bought his first home and you know,

605
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: got a career job and did all the things. You'd

606
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 2: look back and kind of like that was stupid, right,

607
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: But in that moment, you can't. They're not old enough

608
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 2: to understand that. They're not developed enough to understand that

609
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: what their life as they know it. In that moment,

610
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 2: that may.

611
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: Be over, you know, mister DeMay. The other morning, Lucy

612
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: was in the back of the mini van and my son,

613
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: John David was sitting beside me. And I looked over

614
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: at John David. He's usually the mayor of Funveil, and

615
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: he was really cool and looking down and kind of

616
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: out the window, and I immediately knew something was wrong.

617
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: I said, son, what is it? And he wouldn't tell

618
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: me at first, and I said, son, I know something's wrong.

619
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: What is it? He said, Mama, I don't think I'm

620
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: going to have a ninety eight average. And I said, so,

621
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 1: what is the problem. I don't understand. He goes, Mom,

622
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be in ninety seven, and

623
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: he actually was. His whole face was white, just like

624
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: paper white. He was so upset. They in their world,

625
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: they don't understand that tomorrow you're going to feel better.

626
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: And when you just said, mister May that one day

627
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: when he you know, graduated and gets married, he's buying

628
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: his first house, that you would laugh about a neoty

629
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: that he took when he was seventeen. Just I know

630
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: you talked to him. I know you talk to him

631
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: because I talked to my dad all the time. What

632
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: do you say to Jordan's now? I try to talk

633
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: to Jordan's.

634
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 2: Just about day daily stuff, how our sisters are doing,

635
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 2: and what we're up to, and things that we've done

636
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: that we wish you would have been part of. You

637
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 2: know it just it helps keep the keep the message alive,

638
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 2: and keep Jordan alive and helps us heal, helps us

639
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 2: move on.

640
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: Do you ever feel that he answers you in some way?

641
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 6: I do.

642
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: I think I think that's natural for those feelings. I

643
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: Oftentimes great things happen and you know, you'll get a

644
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 2: rush of wind, or the rain will just suddenly stop

645
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: and it'll be a beautiful rainbow, or you know, those

646
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: those weird things that just happen in those moments. Sometimes

647
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 2: you just feel that presence. It's it's hard, it's it's good,

648
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: it's it's refreshing. But I think those are the I

649
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: think those are the winds, that those are the good

650
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: feels that we need to hold on to to keep

651
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: us strong and keep our head up and keep pushing

652
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: forward with everything.

653
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: I hope and pray that your message is furthered today,

654
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: and I hope and pray for justice to the men

655
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: that orchestrated Jordan's death. And let me tell everyone, the

656
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,359
Speaker 1: Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is nine eight eight, like nine

657
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: one one. It's nine eight eight, so simple, so easy.

658
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: It can make all the difference in the world. We

659
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: wait as just as some things. Goodbye, friend,