1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 3: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: I mean legitimate. 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 4: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 4: it will be different. 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: He'll vote Republican. 10 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 11 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: on him. Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: done nothing. 13 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. Welcome to Elon, Inc, 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 3: It's Tuesday, August sixth. 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Max Chafkin, filling in for David Papadopolis. 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: Is dominating the news today with the vice presidential pick 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: being announced. But in the world of markets and money, 19 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: which is to say, our world, all the conversation has 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: been around the big sell off that happened in Asian 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: markets on Monday, and that has continued to reverberate. Here 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: in the US, stocks took a big hit yesterday, but. 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 3: They're rebounding today. 24 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: But really, like all of this kind of chaos and 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,119 Speaker 2: the lingering fears of a recession are leading to some 26 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: really hard questions about what it means for markets in 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: general and in particular the technology industry. 28 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 3: There have been questions sort of. 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: Building up over the last year that the hype around 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: AI artificial intelligence might be overblown, that we might be 31 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: in the middle of a bubble, and this week people 32 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: are starting to really seriously ask is that bubble starting 33 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: to burst? This would have huge implications for Elon Musk 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: and for the world, but in particularly for Elon because 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: he's staked his, you know, the future of Tesla on AI, 36 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: the future of several of his company, including x. 37 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: And his AI company Xai. 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: We're going to be talking today to Bloomberg's Big Tech 39 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: editor Sarah Fryer and social platform reporter Kurt Wagner about 40 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: all this market action. 41 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,119 Speaker 3: Kurt, Sarah, thank you for being on Elon. 42 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 5: K, thanks for having me. 43 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you, Max. 44 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: And then later we're going to share another one of 45 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 2: our conversations as part of our great summer series of 46 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: deep chats. Today's is one that I had with the 47 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: two Texas based journalists, Rachel Monroe and Chris Hooks. Okay, 48 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: so let's get to it. Sarah, what did the tech 49 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: world wake up to on Monday morning? What did Elon 50 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: Musk wake up to on Monday morning? 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 5: I mean every market indicator was down, Nickay down, you 52 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 5: got Crypto go down, the Vix up, volatility, and investors 53 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 5: piles into bonds like it was just like a whole 54 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 5: out panic. Those are some economic indicators driving this, some 55 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 5: US economic strength indicators. But there's also this fear brewing 56 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 5: for big tech companies that they have maybe promised and 57 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 5: invested more than they've delivered or even are showing signs 58 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 5: of being able to deliver in AI. The whole growth 59 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 5: plan in AI is going to cost billions upon billions 60 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 5: of dollars, and it's not clear that that is translating 61 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 5: into better revenue, certainly not better profits, and that is 62 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 5: causing a lot of concern. I'm here in Silicon Valley. 63 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 5: I feel like I've had a little bit more of 64 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 5: the kool a than Wall Street, so I've seen a 65 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 5: lot more in terms of what AI is changing about 66 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 5: how people work than maybe the market has. That said, 67 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 5: i mean, you know, the way that stocks have clined 68 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 5: on the promise of AI has been just astounding, and 69 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 5: the amount of money pouring into it is maybe unsustainable. 70 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 3: Yeah. 71 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like the conversation that we've had 72 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: had on this podcast for the last year about kind 73 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: of Elon Musk's promises around AI and Tesla, or promises 74 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: around AI and Rock. I mean that's been happening at 75 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: like kind of every tech company, right, Kurt. 76 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 77 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 6: And I was going to say, I think something that 78 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 6: Mark Zuckerberg at metas said a few weeks ago to 79 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 6: our very own Emily Chang. 80 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 2: I was. 81 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 6: I was in the room down at Meta's headquarters when 82 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 6: she interviewed him, and he basically said, there's a very 83 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 6: real possibility we're all spending billions of dollars too much 84 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 6: money right now to chase this thing, because the fear 85 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 6: of missing out is so high, right, So, in other words, 86 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 6: we're willing to overspend. We know even that we're overspending 87 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 6: on AI right now. We're over indexing that way because 88 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 6: you can't afford to not do it. And so I think, 89 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 6: you know, we may see some short term repercussions of 90 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 6: that overspend, which is going to be you know, a 91 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 6: dip or a little bubble or whatever it may be. 92 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 6: But I think that gives you a glimpse into the 93 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 6: mindset of the leaders of these companies, because I imagine 94 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 6: if Mark Zuckerberg feel way, that's sort of probably how 95 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 6: a lot of these guys feel, is that they have 96 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 6: to have to have to spend. 97 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 5: It was just so wild too. When Kurt showed me 98 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 5: that quote, I was just like imagine just being like, yeah, 99 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 5: we may be overspending by billions of dollars, but that's 100 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 5: just how we roll when we need to do something 101 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 5: like this. 102 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's for AI. So it's all good. I mean 103 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 3: not a good sign. 104 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, just to sort of put 105 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: something more specific on what you were saying, Sarah, I mean, 106 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: there's been a lot of talk about and obviously a 107 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: lot of successful products and and sort of demonstrations around AI. 108 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: Just like not a lot of revenue coming in to 109 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 2: these companies, at least not yet. And let's just bring 110 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: it around to Elon. I mean, what does this mean 111 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 2: for him? I mean, if the AI bubble is bursting, 112 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: I mean he's been going around saying you're gonna be 113 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: You're wrong to think about Tesla as a car company. 114 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: You should think about as an AI company. Are we 115 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: gonna get on the earnings call? Like you know, a 116 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: few months from now, and he's gonna say, actually, if 117 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: you think about Tesla as an AI company, you got 118 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: it all wrong. 119 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 3: You got to think about it as a car company. 120 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 3: Cars are the thing. 121 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 5: There's no way that he could achieve, you know, the 122 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 5: valuation that he's achieved by just calling it a car company. 123 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 5: It needs to be something more. It needs to be 124 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 5: a promise for the future. And at one point, Tesla 125 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 5: is going to revolutionize the environment, right like it just 126 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 5: there always has to be some bigger dream that people 127 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 5: are chasing. And I think that's what's happening across big tech. 128 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 5: All these companies are maturing, their legacy businesses aren't producing 129 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 5: the level of growth that they used to, and so 130 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 5: the leaders of these companies need to come up with 131 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 5: another promise for what the future is going to hold 132 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 5: and cast themselves in their companies almost like startups all 133 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 5: over again. And in AI there is some way of 134 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 5: believing that the big tech companies will continue to lead, 135 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 5: if only because it is so expensive to develop an 136 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 5: AI that it is one of those markets where you 137 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 5: might not get the rug taken under you by an 138 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 5: upcoming company that is just building something in the garage, 139 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 5: right you really need do need capital to do this? 140 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 5: And the big top companies have capital. 141 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of capital, I mean shortly after the Tesla 142 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: learnings called, Elon Musk floated the idea in a poll 143 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: I believe, right right, Kurt of a Tesla making an 144 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: investment in x dot Xai, which had me kind of wondering, like, 145 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: what do we even know about is I mean beyond Grock, 146 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: what is x Ai? Like? Where does XAI sit right now? 147 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: And should we think about this as an investment or 148 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: is it more of a you know, a bailout, a 149 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: way for Elon must to absorb some of those very 150 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: high costs that Sarah's talking about. 151 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 6: Well, Xai, I'll start with the first part of that question, 152 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 6: is still a bit of a mystery, quite frankly. I mean, 153 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 6: we don't know a ton about it. We included it 154 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 6: on a list of our you know, ten Ai companies 155 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 6: to watch here at Bloomberg. I was struggling, honestly to 156 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 6: figure out exactly where the headquarters of Xai are, Like 157 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 6: very basic stuff, right, I mean, well, we know they 158 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 6: have an office in Palo Alto. I think they list Austin, 159 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 6: Texas as their official headquarters on some documents, but then 160 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 6: they were you know, created in Nevada. So it's like 161 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 6: even just the basics around where this company exists are 162 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 6: not always clear, which sort of gives you a flavor 163 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 6: of sort of how they operate. But I think in 164 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 6: terms of like what does this look like? You know, 165 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 6: to go back to what Sarah was talking about, just 166 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 6: about the broader stock market and how it impacts Elon 167 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 6: in particular, this is someone whose vast majority of his 168 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 6: wealth is tied up in Tesla, which is therefore dependent on, 169 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 6: you know, the success of that stock and the broader 170 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 6: stock market. When things go down, he doesn't have the 171 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 6: liquidity that he needs or wants to do all these 172 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 6: other projects that he has right boring company Xai even 173 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 6: x And we saw this play out when he tried 174 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 6: to buy Twitter a few years ago, right the stock 175 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 6: market went down at the worst possible time for him, 176 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 6: and what happened. He spent all summer trying to fight 177 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 6: to get out of that deal. So I think he 178 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 6: is more susceptible to a stock market decline than most 179 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 6: simply because of all these other endeavors he has going 180 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 6: on and the fact that he needs his Tesla wealth 181 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 6: to sort of either fund those directly or use those 182 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 6: Tesla shares as collateral to get money for these their 183 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 6: businesses that he's running. 184 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: The thing that I find like most striking about this 185 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: is just that, you know, open Ai, which is widely 186 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 2: regarded as like the most successful of these companies, there 187 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: are reports coming out that it is running short on cash, 188 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: that it is going to have money, that it may 189 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 2: even have trouble raising money. So you do wonder what 190 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: does it mean. You know, what does it mean for 191 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: Elon Musk? And on that note, the big news are 192 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: one of the big pieces of news in Elon Land 193 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: is that is a feud watch story. The open Ai 194 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 2: x feud is back on right Sarah. 195 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 5: There is another lawsuit that Elon Musk flung their way. 196 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 5: It's just the continuation of this class we've talked about 197 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 5: for months between Elon Musk and Sam Altman. He was 198 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 5: one of the original founders of open Ai, funded a 199 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 5: lot of the initial capital that was back when open 200 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 5: Ai was supposed to be more of a nonprofit. Obviously 201 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 5: they've gone the for profit direction. Musk is upset about that, 202 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 5: but look, on the other hand, that's what he's doing 203 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 5: with his own business. He's trying to build a for 204 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 5: profit AI operation. So is this real legal problem or 205 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 5: is this more trying to stall to buy time to win. 206 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: Some fantastic writing in this complaint, The perfidity and deceit 207 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 2: are of Shakespearean proportions. 208 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 3: That was an improvement I think from the previous complay. 209 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: Right, Kurt. 210 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 6: I was reading about it this morning as well, trying 211 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 6: to understand exactly what's different this time around, Right, because 212 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 6: as Sarah and you pointed out, maxis is now the 213 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 6: second lawsuit that's come about, and it's not entirely clear. 214 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 6: I mean, it sounds like maybe they've honed in on, 215 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 6: like the very specific stuff that they're claiming open Ai did, 216 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 6: and so we'll see what ultimately happens. But I feel 217 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 6: like now that he has a competing AI business of 218 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 6: his own in X dot Ai, it's very you know, 219 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 6: coincidental timing that he is suddenly taking this very aggressive 220 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 6: stance and approach to open Ai, which, as Sarah pointed out, 221 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 6: he's had a relationship with for a very long time. 222 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 2: Let's leave the world of AI and markets and pivot 223 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 2: to X A lot happening, oh for the weekend on Sunday, 224 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 2: Elon Musk sort of started inserting himself into a conversation 225 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 2: that's been kind of happening on the right, not just 226 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: on x but on other social networks. Following me violent 227 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: knifing attack in Southport, England, there was a lot of 228 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 2: misinformation in the wake of that attack and implying that 229 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: the attacker was either an immigrant or a Muslim or both. 230 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 3: None of those things were true. 231 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 2: There was violent rioting across the country and Elon Musk 232 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 2: kind of threw himself into the middle of that, responding 233 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 2: to a video that showed some of some of the rioting, 234 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 2: saying civil war is inevitable, Sarah, what is going on? 235 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 5: The riots in the UK are almost completely based on 236 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 5: this flood of misinformation, much of it originated on telegram. 237 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 5: But then this is the kind of content that is 238 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 5: rewarded on X and by Elon himself. It's this anti 239 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 5: immigrant mint. Even though authorities in the UK I have 240 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 5: identified the person who stabbed those children as a UK citizen, 241 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 5: all of the sentiment is you know, anti immigrant, anti foreigner, 242 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 5: and resulting in these terrible riots all across the country. 243 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 5: And really we haven't seen the platforms say or do much, 244 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 5: not just X we haven't seen you know, Meta come 245 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 5: out with a statement. Correct me if I'm wrong, Kurt. 246 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 5: But the difference for Elon is he is actually personally 247 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 5: fueling these ideas. He is responding to some of the 248 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 5: conspiracy theorists, he's fueling some of the some of the 249 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 5: racist language on the site. 250 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: You have UK authorities saying, hey, listen, this is like 251 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: people responding to misinformation and people really need to like 252 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: settle down because it's leading to real violence. And instead 253 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: of responding by trying to tone it down somehow, he 254 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 2: tweets he legitimizes the violence, says this is this is 255 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 2: the beginning. 256 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 3: Of a civil war. 257 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: I mean, extremely kind of edgy, you know, bordering on 258 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 2: at least as authorities in the UK see it irresponsible. 259 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 5: No, absolutely, And I think that this is like interesting 260 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 5: in the context of another video that we saw today 261 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 5: from Lynda Yakarino, where she is saying that X's is 262 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 5: a victim here because none of the advertisers, they're all 263 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 5: they're all conspiring against the platform and deciding not to 264 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,719 Speaker 5: put their money there and infringing on free speech. This 265 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 5: is the kind of thing that advertisers don't want their 266 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 5: promotions by and they know that this is toxic content. 267 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 5: They know that this is leading to real world violence, 268 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 5: and they don't want to be associated with it. 269 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: I want us to do a new segment called Feud Walls, 270 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 2: which is our feud watch for the Democratic vice presidential 271 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: nominee Tim Walls. Kurt, what are the chances of a 272 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: feud with Walls breaking out in the next seven days. 273 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 6: In the next seven days, I'm gonna give it a 274 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 6: ninety percent chance. I'm gonna go one hundred percent chance 275 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 6: before the election. It's just a matter of time before 276 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 6: Elon bans the word weird on X and says that 277 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,719 Speaker 6: anyone who calls someone else weird is now committee in 278 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 6: some type of uh, you know, social accusation. That's just 279 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 6: beyond the pale for this company. So I'm going to 280 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 6: give it a ninety percent chance in the next seven days. 281 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 5: I think we're gonna see it happen in the next 282 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 5: seven hours. 283 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 3: Like, you gotta give Wall's credit here. 284 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: I mean, he's of the Elon Musk school of memory, right, 285 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: he made weird happen. He's got these funny videos doing 286 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: car repair like he really seems despite you know coming 287 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: off as this nice Minnesota guy, he may have a 288 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: little bit of poster in him. I think Kurt Sarah will. 289 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: We'll be talking about this more, I'm sure over the 290 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: next few months. Thanks for thanks for being. 291 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 5: Here, Thanks for having us. 292 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 6: Yep, thanks Max. 293 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: Now we're going to go to Texas. 294 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 2: Last week we talked about Elon's breakup with his old 295 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: state California. Now we're going to dig into his romance 296 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: with his new state, Texas. We talked about this earlier 297 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: at the south By Southwest conference for our special episode, 298 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: but we still had questions for some of our favorite 299 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: Texas reporters. So I got on a zoom last month 300 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: with Rachel Monroe, who covers the Southwest for The New Yorker, 301 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: and Chris Hooks, who is a contributing editor for Texas 302 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: Monthly and sometimes. 303 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 3: A contributor to Bloomberg Business Week. 304 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: The south By Southwest conversation was all about Elon's kind 305 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: of identity as a Texan. 306 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 3: Is he where the cowboy hat? What's his deal with 307 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 3: the border. 308 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: For this conversation, I wanted to ask Chris and Rachel 309 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: how Elon Musk is changing Texas and how those changes, 310 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 2: say you know what those changes say about the effect 311 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 2: he's having on the wider world. His operation, just to 312 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: refresh your memory, is enormous. You've got two factories in 313 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 2: Austin or in the Austin area, one that makes cyber trucks, 314 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: another one that'll make Starlink satellites. And then there's this 315 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: crazy launch site in South Texas near the US Mexico 316 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: border where the homes literally shake every time one of 317 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: Musk's starship rockets takes off. For context, again, we record 318 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: this last month, but with Elon pushing ever deeper into politics, 319 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: and of course with SpaceX, you know, vuying for more 320 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: government contracts couldn't be more relevant. 321 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: Hope you enjoy the conversation. Rachel, welcome, Hi Max, great 322 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 3: to be here. Chris welcome to Elon inc. 323 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: Hey, guys's good to be here. 324 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: Okay, So just to start, I want to talk about 325 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: the geography in South Texas. Last year on the Joe 326 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: Rogan podcast, Joe Rogan asked Elon Musk, Hey, how did 327 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: you decide to locate your rocket site in Bocachica, which 328 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: is just outside of Brownsville, And he basically said, oh, well, 329 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 2: I spun the globe and it looked like a good 330 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: place to do it. I mean, he completely dislocated from 331 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 2: any sense of the place. But this is a place, 332 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 2: and Rachel, can you just give us a sense of 333 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 2: what it's like there at the SpaceX site, what Boka 334 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 2: Chika is like. 335 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: Sure. 336 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 4: So, Bocachica, like you said, is outside the city of Brownsville. 337 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 4: It's the very tip of Texas. It's where the Rio 338 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 4: Grande flows into the Gulf of Mexico, and it's it's 339 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 4: mostly surrounded by protected land, various wildlife refuges owned by 340 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 4: the state, or the lot of shore birds and scrubland, 341 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 4: and kind of used to be basically a neighborhood of 342 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 4: intrepid people like this is the kind of place like 343 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 4: the county doesn't build roads out there. You can't get 344 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 4: city infrastructure. You have to get your water trucked in. 345 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 4: So it was a place where you could buy like 346 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 4: a cheap house, like a house for like fifty thousand 347 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 4: dollars or something. It's basically, or it was for a 348 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 4: long time, the last undeveloped part of the Texas Coast, 349 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 4: or probably even the entire Gulf Coast, which is just 350 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 4: dotted with refineries and industrial sites. 351 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 3: Your story. 352 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: I think called it the poor people's beach course, the 353 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 2: poor people's beach for people in Brownsville, Chris. 354 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: There's a conglomeration of cities in this southernmost part of Texas. 355 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: Brownsville is one of them. Bokachka is about a half 356 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: an hour maybe forty five minutes from Brownsville. Brownswelle is 357 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: a poorer place. It's one of the poorer places in Texas. 358 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: The major a lot of the major employers there are shipbreakers. 359 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: There is an industrial field ship breakers. Ship breakers, so 360 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: welders and other metal workers will take apart old ships. 361 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: And before SpaceX came to Brownsville for a long time 362 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: and the idea of an economic development project, there might 363 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: be an old aircraft carrier gets towed around South America 364 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: from Washington State and in Brownsville they break it up. 365 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: It had been a place that had felt neglected for 366 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: a long time. One thing they did have was access 367 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: to natural beauty around Bokachica. It's not necessarily a place 368 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: that you know, it doesn't look like a big sur 369 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: but as far as Texas goes, this is a place 370 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: that is remarkable because it's been undeveloped for so long. 371 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: A lot of folks in Brownsville grew up going to 372 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: Bokachica Beach have fond memories of it, and it's a 373 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: place that I love. I went to the Gulf Coast 374 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: a lot growing up, but the geographical features of the 375 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: area kind of make it remarkable. There's a big protected 376 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: bay called Laguna Madre nearby where dolphins and other animals gather. 377 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: The beach at Bocachica is used by the Ridley sea turtle, 378 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: an endangered sea turtle. It's also a very important place 379 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: for migratory birds short birds, including a lot of birds 380 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: that migrate for thousands of miles and have kind of 381 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: generation after generation for one hundreds thousands or more years, 382 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: relied on this place to lay eggs. 383 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 2: So you're both talking about this unusual place, a lot 384 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 2: of natural beauty, these animals, and Rachel your story which 385 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 2: kind of in Esquire believe was a couple of years 386 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: ago that kind of told the story of how Elon 387 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 2: got there. It opened with this quote, which is from 388 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 2: Elon Musk, and it was we got a lot of 389 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: land with nobody around it, so if it blows up, 390 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: it's cool, and so like, how did Elon get there 391 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: give us the kind of short version of how this 392 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 2: kind of awesomely empty as he saw at space essentially 393 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: came to be his Yeah. 394 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 4: So, And I should say first that in describing Bookachka 395 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 4: as the poor people's beach, that's a statement made with 396 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 4: a lot of pride. That's not a derogatory statement. When 397 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 4: people say that, people are like, no, this is our beach. 398 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 4: You don't have to pay to come here. We come here, 399 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 4: we fish, we grill, we love it, And that's a 400 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 4: statement of ownership. And so again, of course it's not 401 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 4: an empty place. That's definitely not true that there's no 402 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 4: one there. But Elon comes to Texas after having started 403 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 4: out some SpaceX launch sites in other places where he 404 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 4: just you know, you're mostly launching out of government run 405 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 4: sites which have their own levels of regulation, and here 406 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 4: you have a place of undeveloped land, and the land 407 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 4: was quite cheap, partially because there were no services out there. 408 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 4: And it's also I should say it has in the 409 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 4: past been like a hurricane ravaged place. 410 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 7: When I first visited, it had this vary. 411 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 4: Boogie feeling of you could see some of the ruins 412 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 4: of the things that had been built there, nobody had 413 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 4: built a huge resort that then just got totally washed away, 414 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 4: And so I think people looked at this space with 415 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 4: you know, one road that washed out a lot, hurricane potential, 416 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 4: no city or county services for the most part, surrounded 417 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 4: by this protected land, and thought this is not worth 418 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 4: messing with. 419 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 2: So what But he goes to local leaders and says, 420 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: I want to build a spaceport and they say, sure, 421 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 2: come on in or. 422 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 4: I mean yeah, for the most part, this is an area, 423 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 4: like Chris was saying, like there's a lot of desire 424 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 4: for economic development in this area because it has been 425 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 4: so underdeveloped for so long. I thought a PowerPoint presentation 426 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 4: that the Cameron County officials gave to kind of say 427 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 4: like we should approve you know, these tax bicks that 428 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 4: were giving to Elin, and it had him dressed up 429 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 4: as Iron Man. They're like, fully buying a superhero is 430 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 4: coming here to save us story. 431 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 2: Most these people, most people work for him, are living 432 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: in Brownsville, I assume, and driving out what is how 433 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 2: forty five minutes or something to get to get to 434 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: the beach, and what do they see when they get there? 435 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: What's the operation look like? 436 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's quite different than from a place 437 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: like Cape Canaveral, which is in this enormous facility and 438 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: a huge institution and a source of national pride. So 439 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: the launch pad is directly adjacent to a road, and 440 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: if you go down there on a given day, there 441 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: will be a line of Tesla's right next to where 442 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: the rocket is being assembled, and there will be people 443 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: walking around and admiring it. The local residents at Bocachica, 444 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: distinct from the people in Brownsville, feel that there was 445 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: a bait and switch that happened where they were initially 446 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: told that there would be a small launch pad, they thought, oh, 447 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: that's very interesting. Initially they were launching much smaller rockets 448 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: than they're launching right now, and there was the idea 449 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: that this small community could maybe coexist with this facility. 450 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: What's happened over the years is that this BaseX facility 451 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: has expanded, launching much bigger rockets than they used to, 452 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: but how big. The small town that used to be 453 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: there is gone, or it's used for it's been renovated, 454 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: it's used for housing for workers. The prior residents have 455 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: been kicked out. Some of them feel that the county 456 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: kind of used un ethical or improper means to kick 457 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: them out. The entire area has become a large SpaceX 458 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: compound and it's slowly growing. They're attempting to get new 459 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: land from the wildlife reserve. There is a small road 460 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: that connects Brownsville to Bocachica. It's filled with workers most days, 461 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: and the influence of this area has expanded into Brownsville. 462 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: People in Brownsville feel that the town is giving itself 463 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: over to this company. 464 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I you're. 465 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 2: Sort of mentions this in which I found surprising, although 466 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: maybe I shouldn't have that. SpaceX is the biggest employer 467 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 2: in Brownsville. 468 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 3: And of course Elon lives there. 469 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: Elon has moved or taken over one of these small 470 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 2: homes in what was Bokachica, right, Rachel. 471 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's so funny. It was very funny 472 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 4: to go down there. I sort of had the fortune 473 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 4: to spend some time there at this moment of flux. 474 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 4: Like Chris is saying, it's basically all been taken over 475 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 4: by SpaceX now, but when I visited, it was still 476 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 4: in this kind of in between zone where you had 477 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 4: these people with these houses that were just decorated with 478 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 4: shells that they had found, like retirees, and then every 479 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 4: other house would be painted that kind of like slate 480 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 4: Airbnb gray, you know, with like a zeroescaped front yard 481 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 4: and a Tesla parked in front of it. You could 482 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 4: just see that energy taking over. And Yeah, one of 483 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 4: those houses was Elons, And so you had this very 484 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 4: strange situation where there were people who at the time 485 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 4: were fighting SpaceX trying to take their houses through eminent domain, 486 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 4: which of course is supposed to be used for projects 487 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 4: that benefit the public good, not necessarily a private company. 488 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 4: So they're battling this company while they're like living next 489 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 4: to Elon and seeing him out walking his dog. It's 490 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 4: a very surreal situation. 491 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 2: The image of Elon walking his dog, There's something about 492 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: that is hard to picture, but I guess he does 493 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 2: have a dog and dogs need to be walked. So 494 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 2: the Chris Your piece and the Times like it opens 495 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 2: with this really visceral image, right of a person essentially 496 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: being shaken awake by a rocket going off. 497 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: This is in Brownswelle. 498 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 2: This is like a long distance from the actual rocket itself. 499 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 3: Like, how big are these explosions? 500 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I talked to a man named Noel 501 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: Rangele who was woken woken up by the launch of 502 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: one of the starship Super Heavy. I mean, part of 503 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: the transition that Brownsville has been making is that they 504 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: started out launching these Falcon rockets, which were much smaller, 505 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: and they are now presented with these enormous explosions happening 506 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 1: regularly near the town. Sometimes the rockets blow up, they 507 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: blow up at different stages. Sometimes they distribute debris over 508 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: the local beach or a wider area. Sometimes they distribute 509 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: what the last one of the last failures the starships 510 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: Super Heavy distributed what seemed to be either sand or 511 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: some kind of concrete dust over a very wide area, 512 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: and a lot of people that went to see the 513 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: launch in South Padre, which is a pretty big distance away, 514 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: went back to their cars to find this fine mist 515 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: covering everything. Even though SpaceX is Brownsville's largest employer, a 516 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: lot of people in town are just living their lives 517 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: and not super tuned into what the company is doing, 518 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: and so they may not know when a launch is coming, 519 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: and it's a kind of regular surprise that happens in Brownsville. 520 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: Hopefully the launch is a success, sometimes it's a failure 521 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: in the community has to grapple with the consequences of it. 522 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: The thing that runs through both of your writing about 523 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 2: this is just the way that local people feel at 524 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: once attracted and repelled by the spectacle that's around them, 525 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: and proud of it and resentful at the same time. Chris, 526 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 2: your story. I send this around to our producers before, 527 00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 2: but this moment your story. 528 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 3: You talk about a. 529 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 2: Woman who is grappling with Elon Musk and says her 530 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 2: core complaint was that her native city didn't feel like 531 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: it belonged to her anymore, and it felt as though 532 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: public officials were changing the city to become a center 533 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: from Space for space tourism. It was a kind of 534 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: psychological burden. It's exhausting, she said. We're constantly being bombarded 535 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: by Elon Musk and SpaceX news down here. There was 536 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: the ever present threat that Elon might show up to 537 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: Charro Days or sombrerofest, she said, referring to some of 538 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 2: the local festivals. Most of all, she wished to stop 539 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: having to think about him so much. Let me say, 540 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: first of all, I can relate to this as a 541 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 2: regular panelists on ELONNI. 542 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 3: But also It's such a funny image. The fear of. 543 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 2: Elon Musk coming to Sombrero Days or Charrofest or whatever. 544 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 3: Is that real? That's how people feel in Brownsville. 545 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's the sense that this powerful figure 546 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: who is completely unaccountable. Nobody in Brownsville can really affect 547 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: what he does. But what Elon does affects Brownsville quite 548 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: a lot, and I'm sure you feel that quite strongly. 549 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: I feel that as somebody who has to spend a 550 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: lot of time on Twitter. I think Americans in a 551 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: lot of places and of a lot of stripes feel 552 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: that about Elon sometimes just he's everywhere in a way 553 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: that can feel oppressive if you're not totally bought into 554 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: the idea of Elon Musk. But Brownsville is a small 555 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: and poor but very proud community and that had a 556 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: strong sense of community before Elon got there. And I 557 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: pieces about Brownsville and the reaction to Elon Musk often 558 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: dwell on kind of the dissidents, And I do think 559 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: you have to say that the majority of Brownsville are 560 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: I'm generally supportive of the space ex's presence, or they 561 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of don't have a feeling about it. 562 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: I Mean, the most memorable thing to me about Rachel 563 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: your piece from several years ago, was that, like one 564 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: of the big opponents is also going to every rocket launch. 565 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: I mean, she is simultaneously extremely angry about getting thrown 566 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: out of her home and also a huge like rocket 567 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 2: fan girl. 568 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 4: Basically, I found her so fascinating and tragic and relatable 569 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 4: in that way where her life was about to get 570 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 4: steamrolled by this this force, like Chris is talking about 571 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 4: the force of just like what a billionaire wants. He 572 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 4: was going to take her house. She didn't want to 573 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 4: lose her house. She wanted to stay in her house. 574 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 4: But at the same time, like being in proximity to 575 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 4: that power was so compelling to her, and she would 576 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 4: just she would post up on this hill and just 577 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 4: watch the rocket. And now it's like a little bit different. 578 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 4: Now there's they've built some enclosures so you can't just 579 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 4: sit there and like stare at the guys hammering on. 580 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 7: The hull of the rocket all day. But she would 581 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 7: just sit there. She invested in all these cameras. 582 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 4: She like got a bunch of Twitter followers and was 583 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 4: just stalking this rocket. 584 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 7: She loved the rocket. 585 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 4: She was mad that she was getting kicked out of 586 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 4: her house, and I was just like, this is We're 587 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 4: all in this position of being enthralled to these people. 588 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 7: Who are you going to step on us? Like we're ants, 589 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 7: but we're like, wow, they're so big. 590 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. I talked to a woman named Jessica Tetrou who 591 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: was a former city council member ran for mayor in 592 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: Brownsville a few years ago, and she's totally bought into 593 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: what Elon represents, the promise that he's offered this community, 594 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: and I thought it was moving in a way. I mean, 595 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: she talked about growing up in Brownsville at a time 596 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: when it was in serious decline. Brownsville is a place 597 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: that's generally forgotten by state government in Texas and by 598 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people in Texas. And suddenly Elon offered 599 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: her and her kids the opportunity to be part of 600 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: a project that they believed was saving the human race, 601 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: saving civilization, bringing it to the stars. He made this 602 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: small community the launchpad to this great civilizational project. 603 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 3: It's almost religious. 604 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: It is almost religious. I write about politics mostly, and 605 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: so much of the people I meet have this searching 606 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: for meaning, for something that makes them feel like their 607 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: lives are part of a bigger narrative. And I think 608 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: what Elon is brilliant at is roping people into his 609 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: own narrative, offering them a chance to be part of it. 610 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 3: So, in a. 611 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 2: Weird way, these people in Brownsville, Boca Chica, they have 612 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 2: access to Elon, an access to Elon that most of 613 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: us do not. And I'm sort of wondering from both 614 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: of you, like, what do they understand about him that 615 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 2: we don't, and maybe maybe what do they have to 616 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 2: teach us about billionaires and powerful people in general. 617 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 4: I think that from the people that I spoke to, 618 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 4: they were surprised at his willingness to sort of come 619 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 4: right out and talk to them and spend time with 620 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 4: them and win them over. And then at the same 621 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 4: time that kind of ultimately came to nothing or that 622 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 4: didn't actually end up helping them in the long run. 623 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 7: He got what he wanted. 624 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 4: There were some people who kind of aligned themselves with him, 625 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 4: there were people who fought tooth and nail, and either 626 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 4: way it didn't really matter. Everybody kind of ended up 627 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 4: in the same place. 628 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: I think to the extent that Elon Musk's incentives lined 629 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: up with the city of Brownsville. He's been helpful to Brownsville, 630 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: but he's also he's doing his own thing. He's not 631 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: accountable to anyone, and he's not He doesn't show a 632 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: lot of willingness to bend his own plans when they 633 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: conflict with other peoples. I think there has been gratitude 634 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: among people in Brownsville that he's given some money to 635 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: local schools and local charities. In truth, he hasn't given 636 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: all that much, and especially given his prodigious net worth. 637 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: And I think I wonder to what extent the people 638 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: who live in the area feel real to Elon, And 639 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: I wonder, I guess, by extension, how whether any of 640 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: the people around Elon feel real to Elon. 641 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: That is a dark thought, but I think it is 642 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 2: definitely one that I take away from some of this reporting. 643 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 2: So my final question here for both of you. Elon 644 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 2: has built facilities in Los Angeles. I think it's Hawthorne, California, Fremont, 645 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 2: which is in the East Bay, Reno, Nevada, Austin. We 646 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: talked about Buffalo, Berlin, Ish, Boca Chica, Shanghai. If you 647 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,479 Speaker 2: had to be Elon's neighbor next to one of his 648 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: factories one of these places that I've just mentioned, which 649 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 2: would you pick? Chris, You have just made a move, 650 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: so I know you're you're thinking along these lines already. 651 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 2: But I'm curious which Elon city would you most want 652 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 2: to live in if it had to be. 653 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: I mean, Hawthorne seems nice. I have to say, I 654 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: don't think I would choose any of them. The changes 655 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: that have taken place in Austin in the last few years, 656 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: not exclusively because Elon moved there, but in part I 657 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: think have were not entirely welcomed by me. But I'll 658 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: opt for California. I mean, yeah, out one in one out. 659 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 2: Which point out that it is very close to the beach, 660 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 2: but it is also very close to lax So okay, 661 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 2: it's not the most picturesque part of la although very 662 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 2: convenient to the beach. 663 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 3: Well that's great, Rachel. 664 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 4: If you could promise me a house on Boca Chica, 665 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 4: I could have the one remaining like seashell decorated house 666 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 4: that SpaceX couldn't get via eminent domain. I would love 667 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 4: to be the one wacky old lady remaining there, like 668 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 4: surrounded by SpaceX engineers. 669 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: You've got your rocket t shirt, walking your dog with 670 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 2: Elon exactly. 671 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 4: I'll be the holdout and waving at all all my 672 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 4: engineer neighbors. 673 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 3: Thank you both for being here. Thank you, Chris, great 674 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 3: to be here. Thanks Rachel, thank you. 675 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong, Naomi Shaven and 676 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 2: Rayhan Harmancier senior editors. 677 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 3: The idea for this very show also came from. 678 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,919 Speaker 2: Rayhon Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, and we get special editing 679 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 2: assistants from Jeff Grocott, Antonio Muffarech and Aarafatchelas Sho. Our 680 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 2: supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Ink theme is 681 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sagiera. Brendan 682 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is 683 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 2: the head. 684 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 3: Of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks to our supporter Joel Weber. 685 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 3: I'm Max Chafkin. 686 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 687 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 2: it'll help others find it and we will see you 688 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: next week.