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Speaker 1: Good evening, everybody.

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Speaker 2: It is Steve Schmidt, and welcome to this edition of

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Speaker 2: The Warning Conversations with Steven Beschloss, filmmaker, author, journalist and

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Speaker 2: fellow substacker. I urge everybody on here to read his

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Speaker 2: America America substack.

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Speaker 1: It is very good. And one of.

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Speaker 2: The things that I talk about all the time, that

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Speaker 2: I write about frequently is the importance of being well informed.

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Speaker 2: And the fact of the matter is that all of

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Speaker 2: the information that you need to be well informed to

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Speaker 2: know what is happening is available. You just have to

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Speaker 2: exert the energy nowhere to go and look for it.

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Speaker 2: America America. It's a great substack, and you've spread the

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Speaker 2: word about it and share it. And I think as

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Speaker 2: these platforms reach into new platform new places, more and

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Speaker 2: more people hear them. We help contribute ultimately to a

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Speaker 2: civic renewal, to a civic reawakening that must come as

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Speaker 2: this era ultimately, as it must fades in to the

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Speaker 2: black as it passes by. We have more stormy days

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Speaker 2: ahead of us. We'll talk more about that, but America

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Speaker 2: America is a good waypoint, a good guide to understanding

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Speaker 2: complex issues and complex times.

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Speaker 3: I enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: Very much, Steven. We're going to talk for about forty minutes.

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Speaker 2: We're going to answer questions. But right before we came

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Speaker 2: on word that Rudolph Giuliani, mark Meadow's former chief of staff,

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Speaker 2: have been indicted by the State of Arizona, the people

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Speaker 2: of Arizona, for election interference in that state. And I

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Speaker 2: think about Rudolph Giuliani in the context of a person

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Speaker 2: who grew up in the state of New Jersey, twenty

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Speaker 2: five miles away from New York City, the mob busting prosecutor,

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Speaker 2: the New York City crime busting mayor, the nine to

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Speaker 2: eleven mayor, America's mayor, someone who was admired by the

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Speaker 2: country united by the Queen. Is there another person that

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Speaker 2: you can think of, contextualize historically at any point in

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Speaker 2: the last one hundred years or so whose disgrace is

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Speaker 2: as profound as his.

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Speaker 3: Well, the downward spiral of Rudy Giuliani has been not

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Speaker 3: even fast, but intense and tragic for the country. Accelerating downward,

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Speaker 3: you know, as you suggest, somebody who was at one

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Speaker 3: time fighting crime and suddenly, like so many others, you know,

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Speaker 3: the more he got absorbed in the orbit of Trump,

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Speaker 3: the more, he ended up being somebody who who chose

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Speaker 3: a criminal path. So, you know, I mean, I've been

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Speaker 3: very much opposed to Rudy Giuliani for a long time,

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Speaker 3: for a lot of reasons, you know, not the least

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Speaker 3: of which is in two thousand and eight when he

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Speaker 3: was speaking at the Republican Convention and he, you know,

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Speaker 3: trashed Barack Obama for such such a major violation in

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Speaker 3: his mind that he used to be a community organizer,

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Speaker 3: right that in his mind that was somehow a low

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Speaker 3: level activity, you know, which to me was actually a

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Speaker 3: pretty honorable thing that Obama had participated in on his

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Speaker 3: upward climb. And then you see now this sort of

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Speaker 3: reverse movement by Juliani. I mean, it's a tragedy. And

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Speaker 3: I think a lot about the last year when you know,

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Speaker 3: Chris Mays, who's the Attorney General of Arizona. She won

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Speaker 3: by a very very small number of votes that could

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Speaker 3: very easily have gone a different way. She's been involved

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Speaker 3: in the investigation over the last year of Giuliani and

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Speaker 3: Mark Meadows and so forth. We would be sitting at

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Speaker 3: this moment in a very different reality had had Arizona

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Speaker 3: well not only elected Democrat, Chris Mays, but also Democrat

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Speaker 3: Katie Hobbs as governor.

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Speaker 2: What do you see right now in the country. We

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Speaker 2: have a very vivid split screen. We have the sleeping

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Speaker 2: former president Flatulan in the trial. According to multiple reports,

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Speaker 2: we have large protests in the nation of Georgia with

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Speaker 2: a with a referendum on the ballot there that will

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Speaker 2: really past the country's fate towards either Russia or the

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Speaker 2: European Union. A law, i should say, not a referendum,

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Speaker 2: that's that's passing through parliament. The Polish president just volunteered

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Speaker 2: his country as a base for nuclear weapons. We'd like

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Speaker 2: them stationed here. Essentially. How do you see the world

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's a big question. I think we're

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Speaker 3: in a as much as any time I can think of,

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Speaker 3: in a very binary moment, you know, and and binary,

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Speaker 3: which is the classic reality of Democrats versus Republicans in

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Speaker 3: this case, Joe Biden versus Trump, and what these two

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Speaker 3: entities represent. And you know, you know as well as anybody,

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Speaker 3: there was a time when they were both involved in

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Speaker 3: the process of governing. They were both committed to a

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Speaker 3: version of the democratic project. We were clear that they

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Speaker 3: were committed to the democratic experiment, and we assumed that

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Speaker 3: the rule of law was something that they all committed

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Speaker 3: themselves to. And uh and uh. You know, NATO has

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Speaker 3: been an important force in the life of not only America,

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Speaker 3: but of the world and the advancement of the democratic project,

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Speaker 3: you know, since the you know, since the end of

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Speaker 3: the war and all these years since that has created

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Speaker 3: relative peace. And we see you know, one side of uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, of the country that's willing to toss it

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Speaker 3: all away. And I think you know, there was a

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Speaker 3: time when you might look at Poland, or you might

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Speaker 3: look at Hungary, or you might look at Turkey, or

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Speaker 3: you might look and for that matter, in North Korea

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Speaker 3: and say, well, these are clearly or Russia, these are

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Speaker 3: clearly adversaries. And it's a you know, it's a shared

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Speaker 3: reality that we all recognize that they are a danger

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Speaker 3: to our way of life. Well, here we are, you know,

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Speaker 3: one hundred and twelve Republicans, which was a majority who

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Speaker 3: voted against the aid to Ukraine just in the last

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Speaker 3: days it passed. You know, the focus for many is

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Speaker 3: on bipartisanship, but I would say, let's also look at

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Speaker 3: that one hundred and twelve who thought siding with Vladimir

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Speaker 3: Putin and Donald Trump is a is a better trajectory

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Speaker 3: for the country's future, and that should alarm all of us.

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Speaker 2: Want you to call me out at any point if

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Speaker 2: you think I misspeak about any of this. I'm old

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Speaker 2: enough to remember President Zulanski addressing the United States Congress.

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Speaker 2: That happened, and there was no evidence during the address

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Speaker 2: that there would be an opposition of one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twelve Republican members of Congress to arming the democratic nation

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Speaker 2: that has been assaulted by Russia, that has kidnapped tens

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Speaker 2: of thousands of children and shipped them east, raped, murdered,

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Speaker 2: maimed across the country.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, it's been willing to let more

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Speaker 3: than half of a million of its own young soldiers

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Speaker 3: die as well.

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Speaker 2: And for everyone on today was Stephen just said. These

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Speaker 2: are extraordinary casualty numbers. The entire American loss in the

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Speaker 2: Second World War was four hundred and five thousand killed

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Speaker 2: in action, and the Russians have already exceeded that number.

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Speaker 1: In Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: There these are enormous numbers from a fascist country that

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Speaker 2: all over that country. As you have the spring and

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Speaker 2: summer rock concert festival. There will be fascist rock concerts

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Speaker 2: and z rallies of young people cheering the assault on Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: cheering the death on.

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Speaker 1: What do you think happened.

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Speaker 2: Between Zelensky's speech and today that has created a rival

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Speaker 2: historically spot on in my view, exactly analogous to the

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Speaker 2: booned to the vote that took place in nineteen forty

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Speaker 2: with Charles Lindbergh on one side of it, that passed

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Speaker 2: by one vote. The draft was maintained in the country,

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Speaker 2: the exact same thing, and the peace of the world

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Speaker 2: is in state.

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Speaker 3: But I'm what is Lena Burger was committed to America first, of.

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Speaker 2: Course, America first, right, the same name, right, the same organization,

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Speaker 2: the same enthrallment to a foreign fascist, a foreign dictator.

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Speaker 2: What happened between the first Zolensky speech in Congress and

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Speaker 2: today in your view, how do you explain?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, look, the quick response would be to

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Speaker 3: say that we've seen sort of the rise of Trump

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Speaker 3: to the role of presumptive nominee, and we know that

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Speaker 3: his position going back to twenty sixteen was opposed to

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Speaker 3: Ukraine and put it in the policy of the Republican

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Speaker 3: National Agenda. You know, to oppose Ukraine and obviously his

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Speaker 3: pro Putin commitment. You know, we've seen that play out

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Speaker 3: again and again and again over these years, and particularly

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Speaker 3: you know, the ultimate betrayal in twenty eighteen and Helsinki,

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Speaker 3: which you know, I don't know about you. I will

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Speaker 3: never get over his rejection of you know, seventeen you know,

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Speaker 3: agencies of our intelligence to side with with Putin. I

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Speaker 3: mean that that relationship has been clear. I think as

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Speaker 3: his power has risen again that that has influenced many

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Speaker 3: of those one hundred and twelve. But I also you know,

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Speaker 3: what I don't know, but what seems to be clear

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Speaker 3: is that there is, you know, continues to be this

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Speaker 3: sort of pro Russian mindset. And you know, whether whether

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Speaker 3: many of them are on the payroll, whether many of

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Speaker 3: them have been busy frankly listening to Fox News, and

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Speaker 3: you know, the kind of pro Putin agenda that's been

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Speaker 3: playing out night after night, whether it's Tucker Carlson or

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Speaker 3: others on air. I think they've it's created for them

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Speaker 3: a safe space and a belief that somehow treating treating

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Speaker 3: Ukraine as an adversary and Russia as an ally is

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Speaker 3: somehow an acceptable path for America now and for the future.

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Speaker 2: What's imagine a scenario where Trump is elected forty seventh

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Speaker 2: president of the United States, and he is inaugurated on

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Speaker 2: January twentyth. What is it that you worry the most

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Speaker 2: about over the first say, ninety to one hundred days

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Speaker 2: of his presidency. What is the assertion of power domestically

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Speaker 2: and internationally that that would keep you awake at night?

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Speaker 3: You know, there's so many to choose from. You know, Look,

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Speaker 3: he said from the beginning, retribution is at the heart

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Speaker 3: of what he's after. We know that he'll pursue that aggressively.

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Speaker 3: You know, we know that it'll be an attack on

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Speaker 3: political enemies, reel and proceipit perceived. We know it'll be

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Speaker 3: an attack on the media at all, in all forms,

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Speaker 3: critics of all forms. We know, and he said it aggressively.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's scapegoaded migrants almost above and beyond anyone else,

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Speaker 3: whether it's you know, poisoning the blood of Americans or

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Speaker 3: all the other ways of stripping, you know, apart immigrant

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Speaker 3: families who've crossed the border. He's made it really clear

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Speaker 3: in this Project twenty twenty five that the plan is

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Speaker 3: to round up millions of migrants, put them in camps,

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Speaker 3: and to deport them without due process. That's frightening. And

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Speaker 3: then you add on top of that the commitment to

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Speaker 3: end an independent judiciary, to put in them, to put

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Speaker 3: at an end to a nonpartisan civil service, uh, make

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Speaker 3: them all loyalists to him, and then essentially providing an

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Speaker 3: opportunity for him to operate as a dictator, operate according

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Speaker 3: to his as we know, very un uh you know,

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Speaker 3: uh incompetent and uh you know, hateful form of uh

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Speaker 3: you know, of resentment and and acting on the basis

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Speaker 3: of whim. So I mean, I think, I think the

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Speaker 3: intention of the people who have stood by him, who

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Speaker 3: are enabling him, who are part of these right wing

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Speaker 3: networks like the Heritage Foundation and others, they're working hard

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Speaker 3: to be able to put in place an infrastructure that

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Speaker 3: if he's elected, they can go from day one and

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Speaker 3: accelerate this.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about retribution.

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Speaker 2: I and I know that, uh, you share this no

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Speaker 2: doubt as well.

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Speaker 1: Over these last years, as we have been.

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Speaker 2: Critical of of Donald Trump, Uh, we have been threatened

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Speaker 2: in different in different different forms, different different manners. And

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Speaker 2: but but going all the way back to the to

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Speaker 2: the beginning when people discarded every principle, and the most

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Speaker 2: dramatic for me personally, of course, is Lindsey Graham, who

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Speaker 2: I lived with right on the campaign bus for an

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Speaker 2: extended period of time with with John McCain. Extraordinary, right,

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Speaker 2: extraordinary to watch. But back at the beginning, you were like,

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Speaker 2: what is it that these people are so terrified of?

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Speaker 4: It?

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Speaker 1: Mean tweet? He's going to send a.

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Speaker 2: Mean tweet out? When when you talk about attribution, are

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Speaker 2: we beyond mean tweets?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 1: What would be more specific about what it is that

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Speaker 1: you mean by retribution? He will do what to Who

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Speaker 1: do you think?

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Speaker 3: And so let me say two things. One is I

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Speaker 3: think you know, we've seen all of the gop enablers

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Speaker 3: who have feared him and whether it's a mean tweet

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Speaker 3: or somehow that he was going to undermine their careers.

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Speaker 3: Add on top of that increasingly fear of death threats.

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Speaker 3: And it's not just Trump, it's obviously his ability to

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Speaker 3: sick his followers on people and put families in danger.

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Speaker 3: I think those things are real. We'll see that intensify

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Speaker 3: and expand in all kinds of ways. But you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't say this hyperbolically. I think you can talk

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Speaker 3: about not only just the rounding up of migrants. I

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Speaker 3: think you could see the rounding up of critics. You know,

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Speaker 3: does that lead to executions? Well, I'm not convinced that

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Speaker 3: it doesn't. I mean, I want to say it that strongly.

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Speaker 3: I think that there are a lot of people in

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Speaker 3: this country who will genuinely be in danger if he

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Speaker 3: gets back into office. And I mean danger in terms

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Speaker 3: of their lives.

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Speaker 1: Why do you believe.

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Speaker 3: That, Well, I mean, we've we've seen his personal obsession

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Speaker 3: with carnage. We've seen his love relishing of savoring of violence.

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Speaker 3: You know, we saw him on January sixth, or we've

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Speaker 3: surely learned about it. Not only you know, not only

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Speaker 3: that he didn't act to stop the violence. All accounts

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Speaker 3: were that he watched it with great pleasure on television.

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Speaker 3: We know that he was interested in, you know, getting

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Speaker 3: the army to shoot protesters that we're in Lafayette Park.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is a man who has a history.

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Speaker 3: Let's go back to nineteen eighty six and the Central

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Speaker 3: Park five. You know, he put out an advertisement, a

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Speaker 3: full page in the New York Times advocating for the

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Speaker 3: execution of them, you know, these young black men who,

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Speaker 3: by the way, eventually were exonerated. So you know, he

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Speaker 3: has a history of and we've seen him inciting violence

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Speaker 3: again and again and again. So unleash him even more

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Speaker 3: than he has. Well, we haven't seen the bottom, and

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Speaker 3: so I think it's a genuine concern. You know, will

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Speaker 3: there be some kind of bulwark against that? You tell me,

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Speaker 3: what do you think.

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Speaker 2: I want to put a pen in where we are

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Speaker 2: and come back to it on the political opponents.

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Speaker 1: But I want to talk. And this is the first.

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Speaker 2: Time that I'm going to have a conversation on this

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Speaker 2: platform with anybody. I'm delighted it's going to be you

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Speaker 2: about the mechanics of the camps to deport the migrants

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Speaker 2: by the millions out of the out of the country.

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Speaker 2: And I joke around sometimes with my kids. If they're watching.

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Speaker 2: We have an audience that SKUs a little bit older

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Speaker 2: and will remember my reference to Ellie and Gonzalez. But

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Speaker 2: but I remember that shit show with perfect clarity, and

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to imagine the application of that in some

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Speaker 2: form times what three million, four million, five million out

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Speaker 2: across the country.

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Speaker 3: But.

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Speaker 2: The public into party right that that I was attracted

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Speaker 2: to the philosophy of government.

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Speaker 1: Right that that.

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Speaker 2: Makes most sense to me still is this notion of

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Speaker 2: limited government, of a government that makes decision is closest

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Speaker 2: to the people that are affected by those decisions. This

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Speaker 2: concept of federalism. The size of government that is necessary

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Speaker 2: to round up millions of people and put them into

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Speaker 2: camps before shipping them anywhere is immense.

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Speaker 1: The size of.

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Speaker 2: The police state to sustain that. Talk about how you

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Speaker 2: see the mechanics of the federalization of a giant bureaucracy powerful.

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Speaker 2: I presume where do you see it housed in the government?

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Speaker 2: Is this a military venture? This a homeland security function?

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Speaker 2: Is this federalized national guard? Have you thought about it?

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Speaker 2: But what does this look like? Are there checkpoints on

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Speaker 2: I ninety five? Are there people walking through chains asking

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Speaker 2: for papers? Give me a glimpse into what to what

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Speaker 2: the round up looks like?

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Speaker 3: Right? Look, I will say that if we go back

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Speaker 3: to twenty sixteen to twenty twenty, the strategic skill of

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Speaker 3: the person who served at that time was was very low.

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Speaker 3: So that already raises at least some questions. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's my view that what has happened since then has been,

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Speaker 3: you know, more states and more governors who are ready

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Speaker 3: to act on his desires. You know, Texas of course

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Speaker 3: comes to mind right away. I agree with you that,

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Speaker 3: you know, to be able to do it on a

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Speaker 3: national scale is not going to happen, and day one,

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Speaker 3: it's not going to happen probably in day one hundred

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Speaker 3: at the scale that they're threatening. But do I think

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Speaker 3: that the effort will be to work with every every

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Speaker 3: pro Trump governor around the country to begin to put

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Speaker 3: in place camps and the systems in those states to

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Speaker 3: round people up. I think that's very probable. What's the

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Speaker 3: scale of that, how many how long does that take?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, But I think that the problem, you know,

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Speaker 3: is once you activate that, that begins to course through

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Speaker 3: the society, and whether it's millions, or whether it's starts

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Speaker 3: with tens of thousands or you know, rises to hundreds

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Speaker 3: and thousands. I think it's going to create a climate

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Speaker 3: of violence in the country and a climate of fear

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Speaker 3: in the country. And I think it's going to have

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Speaker 3: ripple effects that are not only in terms of migrants.

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Speaker 3: And we can figure out, you know, where where people

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Speaker 3: think they can or cannot go based on you know,

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Speaker 3: based on whether their states leadership supports Trump in an

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Speaker 3: endeavor like this or not. But I think it's very

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Speaker 3: clear to me that it's going to create a violence

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Speaker 3: cultural violence in the country beyond which we've seen before.

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Speaker 2: There's this concept that if you work in the White

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Speaker 2: House in every administration, there's a couple of people that

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Speaker 2: will go out on television and screw this up and

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Speaker 2: then be appropriately lamb based.

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Speaker 1: But I'm gonna walk I'm going to walk through the

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Speaker 1: concept right.

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Speaker 2: Now if you if you work and I worked as

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Speaker 2: a commissioned officer in a White House as a deputy

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Speaker 2: assistant to the president counselor or the Vice President. I

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Speaker 2: served at the pleasure of the President. I worked for

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Speaker 2: the people of the United States, and I swore an

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Speaker 2: oath to the American Constitution. That was a prerequisite for

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Speaker 2: my receipt of a commission signed by the Secretary of

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Speaker 2: State and the President of the United States.

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Speaker 1: Under the law.

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Speaker 2: So this is important to understand because this Project twenty

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Speaker 2: five and the prerequisite to all of the bad things

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Speaker 2: is this the civil Service, which probably was signed into

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Speaker 2: law by Chester Arthur in the in the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 2: But the civil Service binds people to a cause higher

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Speaker 2: than the patronage of a president. There is appropriate political appointments,

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Speaker 2: but there's Project twenty five is essentially stripping away the

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Speaker 2: oath to anything higher than the cause of Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: And everybody who's fired will be replaced by someone who

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Speaker 2: has a predicate to be in the job, has taken

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Speaker 2: an oath to Donald Trump, and that oath seems to

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Speaker 2: supersede everything else. So once that's in place, right, you

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Speaker 2: have some transition quickly over months of thousands of people

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Speaker 2: who are out and fired new people who are in.

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Speaker 2: They've taken their oath to Trump. The oath to the

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Speaker 2: Constitution is beside the point. It is a charade. By

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Speaker 2: that point, and Donald Trump, seeing protests out across the country,

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Speaker 2: asks for red states to volunteer their national guards as

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Speaker 2: he invokes the Insurrection Act and sends the military out

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Speaker 2: of American bases into America's cities, red state national guards

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Speaker 2: under the federal banner, into blue states. If that happened,

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Speaker 2: If that happened, he absolutely has the authority to do

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Speaker 2: what happens in the country.

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Speaker 3: I'm dwelling, and I'm dwelling quietly and purposefully, because you know,

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Speaker 3: I think these these are the I want to just say,

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Speaker 3: these are the kinds of questions I think people do

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Speaker 3: need to think about. I think there needs to be

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Speaker 3: this kind of reflection on what that future could look like.

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Speaker 3: I think it's important to ring an alarm bell, whatever

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Speaker 3: exactly that form may take, because because these are the

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Speaker 3: desires of this population. And I think we have an

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Speaker 3: awful lot of people who are indifferent, doubtful, reluctant to

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Speaker 3: vote this time around, who who haven't quite grasped what danger.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think that the country is facing. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, as I suggested, I think the climate of

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Speaker 3: violence will be a real one. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: it happens just on one side. I don't think it's

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Speaker 3: simply the authoritarians who are ready to use sort of

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Speaker 3: fear and violence to subjugate population are the you know,

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Speaker 3: the totality of the story. I think we're clear that

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Speaker 3: there will be insurgencies, there will be responses, there will

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Speaker 3: be bluestate governors, there will be others who will refuse

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Speaker 3: to go along with this. I think we have the

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Speaker 3: potential of things really coming Apart of the seams in.

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Speaker 2: That moment, who are the national leaders that you look

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Speaker 2: at in that scenario that but God help us, that

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Speaker 2: you can see on the horizon that will play vital

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Speaker 2: roles in that exegent national emergency and crisis.

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Speaker 3: Interesting. I do think and I wish that former presidents,

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Speaker 3: and I mean both Democrats and Republicans, I wish they've

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Speaker 3: taken a more active role now. I'm hoping in the

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Speaker 3: months ahead that they will that. You know, there are

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Speaker 3: some that have spoken out about the dangers. I'm hoping

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Speaker 3: that they'll do that more. I do think former presidents

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Speaker 3: will have a critical role to play. I think we

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Speaker 3: can talk about a number of you know, at a

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Speaker 3: state level, a number of the essentially you know, twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty eight candidates. You know, Gavin Newsom in California will

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Speaker 3: be important. You know, Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan will be important.

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Speaker 3: I think you can look at that state level ship.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I'm also a big advocate in the

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Speaker 3: importance and power not only of like attorney generals obviously

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Speaker 3: in Democratic states, who will be doing whatever they can

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Speaker 3: in their states to circumvent this. I think you'll also

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Speaker 3: see at the city level mayors who will be taken

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Speaker 3: an active role to to resist with those those efforts.

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Speaker 3: You know, I appreciate you asking about it, because that

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Speaker 3: that gives, you know, those of us who do worry

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Speaker 3: quite a bit about what this future could be, sort

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Speaker 3: of some optimism that it's it's not it's not a

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Speaker 3: one way trajectory here. It's going to be complicated and

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Speaker 3: painful and and probably violent. But but but there's no

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Speaker 3: assumption about what the conclusion is.

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Speaker 2: Do you have you thought about what happens if Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump abrogates unilaterally the Article five provisions of the NATO Charter,

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Speaker 2: which which basically says we're out, Yeah, well, defend a

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Speaker 2: European country. I believe the consequence will be a millions

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Speaker 2: dead European war. That war will be fought in Poland,

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Speaker 2: it will be fought in the Baltic countries.

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Speaker 1: It will likely be fought in the east of Germany.

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Speaker 3: Through my friends in Finland thinking very well, come to

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Speaker 3: come there as well. After all, they share an eight

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Speaker 3: hundred mile border with with the Russians. You know it, Look,

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Speaker 3: it's a it's a green light to Vladimir Putin to

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Speaker 3: expand his effort to reinstate and maybe even expand the

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Speaker 3: former Soviet Union. That's obviously his empire building. You know,

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Speaker 3: his great disappointment of the unfolding, the unraveling of the

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Speaker 3: Soviet Union. You know, it was something he's been caring

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Speaker 3: for decades, and he's been quite vocal about it, only

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Speaker 3: now fully acting on it. I mean, I think it's

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Speaker 3: quite clear.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Look, if if Ukraine falls, if the United States abrogates

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Speaker 3: its responsibility to NATO, I think we can kind of

439
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 3: work our way around the region. They can anticipate, uh,

440
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: you know, if not full scale uh, if not full

441
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: scale invasion, they can anticipate. You know, a lot of

442
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: response from the Soviets, I say, Soviets of the Russians.

443
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 2: What do you make of in this moment of Mike Johnson, who.

444
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: Steps up.

445
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: To a condition of responsibility with the security of the

446
00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: world at stake, and attaches himself to reality, to the

447
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: lessons of history, does what must be done? And I

448
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: bring this up on the context of the House Republican

449
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: announcement that they'll all be in Normandy for the eightieth anniversary.

450
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: On to and sex right and honest to God right.

451
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: My instinct is want to just want to start yelling

452
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: at all, right, but this isn't wisdom. Right, This is frustration, right,

453
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: And and President Biden talks about right. You know, with

454
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: age comes wisdom. I've been I've been critical, for sure,

455
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: you know, I've expressed my views. But I think we've

456
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: seen a lot of wisdom from President Biden concerning the

457
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: speaker and his disposition, and from people like Nancy Pelosi

458
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: that have shown a lot of temperament. He didn't yell

459
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: at Mike Johnson.

460
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: They educated him, they talk to him.

461
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: And you presume that all of these Republican members of

462
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: Congress know what Normandy was about why we were there.

463
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: One of the things they will see there is that

464
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: all of the grave sites in the cemetery face west

465
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: towards home. An American army of young men in perfect formation.

466
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: Almost ten thousand graves, thirty eight pairs of brothers, two

467
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: sons of a president of the United States, buried next

468
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: at each other, one of them a recipient of the

469
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: Medal of Honor. What would you like to say to

470
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: those people if you could spend five minutes with right

471
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: as they are on the site of the Ranger Memorial,

472
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: the Dagger on top of Point de Hawk, where Ronald

473
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: Reagan spoke forty years ago on the eightyeth occasion of

474
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: the liberation of Europe at at tremendous costs. Right, they're

475
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: all there, A lot of them are Jingo's USA USA.

476
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 2: Patriotism is nationalism. It's an expression of an NFL flyover

477
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: in the big giant flag.

478
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 1: Right.

479
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: What would you say to them on the occasion of

480
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: the eightieth anniversary in Normandy? Right about this moment in

481
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: time in the world and what's happening in what you're seeing.

482
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: You know, millions of Americans sacrificed in the Second World

483
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 3: War to be able to sustain democracy and fight off

484
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: Nazism and the threat of fascism. There are parallels to

485
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: our own time, and for them to miss this moment

486
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 3: and misunderstand their responsibility not only as Americans to democracy

487
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 3: and a democratic project that has been underway for nearly

488
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty years, but also the responsibility that

489
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 3: America has shown surely since World War Two in its

490
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 3: responsibility to try to expand democracy around the world. This

491
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 3: is their responsibility too, And you have to hope that

492
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 3: there's at least some of the folks that will go

493
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 3: there who might actually recognize that there's something resonant in

494
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 3: our own time to what happened then, and maybe there's

495
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: even a few of those who were among the one

496
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: hundred and twelve who might actually be able to grasp that.

497
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 3: You know, that we are living in a moment where

498
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 3: the threat of fascism, you know, the rise of Putin,

499
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 3: and the desire to expand globally is real, and the

500
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 3: American experiment and democracy around the world is in serious danger.

501
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: And they either are going to participate in it or

502
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 3: they're going to participate in its unraveling.

503
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: Beautifully, said Lisa, If you could join us and help

504
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: steer the conversation for all our audience members, it would

505
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: be terrific. Well, Lisa signs in. I'll just share this

506
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: story that I love. And this is the two hundredth

507
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: anniversary of the visit of Gilbert du Montier, the Marquis

508
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: de Lafayette, visit to all thirty four, excuse me, twenty

509
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 2: four of the American states of the Union. The country

510
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: had grown to north of ten million people, and Lafayette

511
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: at York Town, when the country.

512
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Was really.

513
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 2: Born, in the surrender of the British at York Town,

514
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: he proclaims humanity has its victory liberty has its country,

515
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: and his vision was that America would be the redemption

516
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 2: of the old world. And there is this moment when

517
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: American forces, the first to ever leave the country's shores

518
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: as an expeditionary army and army of liberation in the

519
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: First World War, they marched straight to Lafayette's grave, and

520
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: the American colonel in command famously says, Lafayette, we are here.

521
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: So these connections between all of these countries, all of

522
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: our systems of democracy place the human being above the

523
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: jackboot of the state, uh are are profound and important

524
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: to be constantly remembered and refreshed. And so hopefully what

525
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: you said will will land home with some of these people.

526
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 3: And I want to I want to say one other thing, Steve,

527
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: which is that I know in recent weeks you've made

528
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: a point of visiting a number of concentration camps and

529
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: written about the meaning of that and the warning, and

530
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 3: I really appreciate that you've done that. I really value

531
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 3: that you've done that to to remind people what happens

532
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 3: when when it all unravels right and where there's not

533
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 3: a commitment to sustaining democracy and sustaining a way of life.

534
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 3: What can happen. Hopefully, you know, there are enough people

535
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 3: who have been reading those and will learn from it.

536
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 3: And again, I just want to say, I appreciate you've

537
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 3: done it.

538
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I appreciate you saying that, and I and

539
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: the last thing I'd say is take way from it

540
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,919
Speaker 2: from the experience, is that your average person, what they

541
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 2: know about the Nazis and about Adolf Hitler, they associate

542
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 2: with the Holocaust, with these death camps. And these death

543
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: camps operated for a very short period of time.

544
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: The Holocaust was.

545
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: Planned as an act in January of nineteen forty two,

546
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 2: it began in the March time frame, Auschwitz open in June,

547
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 2: and it was all over in some degree by late

548
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 2: nineteen forty four.

549
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: But the point is Adolf Hitler.

550
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,240
Speaker 2: Was on the scene from nineteen twenty three to nineteen

551
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: forty five. And the thing that everyone remembers about Hitler

552
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: overwhelming is what he did in the last three years,

553
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: not what he did in the first twenty. And what's

554
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: most important to remember the lessons are what happened in

555
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: the early years led to the middle years, that led

556
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: to the possibility that leaves you a complete astonishment as

557
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: you look at the Grail at Treblinka, where nine hundred

558
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: thousand human beings were burned, stripped of their possessions in

559
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 2: open air for being Jews. How that happened is the

560
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 2: most important thing to know. It seems to me, of

561
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: all the knowledge that was gained and lost in the

562
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: twentieth century, there's no lesson that he supersedes how that happened.

563
00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: With that, we have Lisa with us. Welcome Lisa, Thank you, Steve.

564
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 4: So, there are a lot of questions tonight, and hopefully

565
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 4: we can get through as many as possible, So hoping

566
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 4: that you can answer in a succinct way. The first

567
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 4: question I'll ask of you, Stephen Janet Shapiro wants to know,

568
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 4: going back to the top of the conversation, how does

569
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 4: someone like Rudy Giuliani get lured into the Maga cult.

570
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting question. My simple answer would be

571
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 3: that that he's somebody who has always been drawn to power.

572
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: He saw the rise of Trump, who was an old

573
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: friend of his, and went on the ride with him.

574
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: You know, whether there were moments along that path where

575
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 3: he had disagreement, I think he quickly made the decision

576
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 3: that aligned with Trump and tossing aside the rule of

577
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 3: law to fulfill Trump's intents was at the heart of

578
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 3: his craven desire for power.

579
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 4: Thank You'm Steve Schmidt. Homie Hormagy saw a tweet today

580
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 4: or post on acts from Mark Jacobs who really got

581
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 4: to the heart of our current quandary by stating, I'll

582
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 4: never get over the fact that nearly half of US

583
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 4: voters support the most dishonest, disgusting, ignorant, vicious, treasonous person

584
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 4: in public life. The last decade has been a devastating

585
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 4: indictment of American values. How did this happen?

586
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: It happened.

587
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: Because there have been a profound collapse of trust between

588
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: the American people and a lot of the most important

589
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 2: institutions of the country, and it has created all of

590
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: the conditions necessary for the rise of a demagogue in

591
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 2: a time of unrivaled peace and prosperity, against all of

592
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: human history from the beginning of time that there has

593
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 2: been a breaking of the social compact. There is forty

594
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: percent of the country that has four hundred dollars cash available,

595
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: and I beg of all of you to be open

596
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 2: minded about what I'm about to say to you, which

597
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: is this corruption does not belong to Donald Trump. When

598
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: Senator Robert Menendez was found with the gold bars, the

599
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 2: Senate Majority leader said, Chuck Schumer said, he's been a

600
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 2: great public servant for the peace of New Jersey. Who

601
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 2: does that help? What cause does that aid? What cynicism

602
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 2: does that fuel? And so it's really easy to make

603
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: the judgment and to want to yell at everybody. And

604
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,720
Speaker 2: there's a lot of MAGA supporters in my family, and

605
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: hitting someone in the head may feel good for you,

606
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: but it's not going to change anyone's mind. And so

607
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: there are values that we have in common that we

608
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: have to articulate better, that we have to celebrate better.

609
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 2: But yes, it is an indictment of national character when

610
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: the most loathsome character, it is a choice of a

611
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: significant amount of the country. But at the same time,

612
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: you have to have the level of introspection necessary to say,

613
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: in a two party system, in a two team sport league,

614
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 2: how can it be that the pro democracy team is

615
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 2: losing to the pro insurrection team? How is the kindness

616
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: team losing to the cruelty team? And all that goes

617
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: along with that.

618
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 4: So I'm now going to ask a couple of questions

619
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 4: about the media. First to you, Steven sam Erda asks,

620
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 4: Fox News is undermining our national security? Why haven't they

621
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 4: been shut down?

622
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: You know, we still have a First Amendment. We still

623
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: have in Steve May maybe you're better in the in

624
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 3: the in the details of the policy of this. You know,

625
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 3: we still have their ability to be able to to,

626
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 3: shall we say, sort of navigate that path that allows

627
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 3: them to uh to ride defence of u of speech

628
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: that is not considered hate speech or is not otherwise

629
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 3: considered crossing a line that that could be criminally charged,

630
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 3: which you know, along with the you know, the you

631
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 3: know the Federal Communication Commissions, you know limitations that gives

632
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 3: you know, a news organization the ability to function. You know,

633
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 3: they've been able to continue to straddle that. You know,

634
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 3: I think it's I would love to hear Steve, if

635
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 3: you have a notion, if there's a way to finally

636
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 3: break that. I'm a First Amendment absolutist. And what I'd

637
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 3: say to Sam, who's one of the great Warning subscribers

638
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 3: and contributors to the to the community, is that one

639
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 3: of the most important free speech cases in American history

640
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 3: involved the defense of the Nazi Party to march in

641
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: the most heavily Jewish town in the country, Skokie, Illinois,

642
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 3: by the ACLU, by a Jewish attorney.

643
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: And what I urge you.

644
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: To do is to have faith in the First Amendment

645
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: and to appreciate what it is. It bars the prohibition

646
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,959
Speaker 2: by the government right of speech. Now, Elon Musk says,

647
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 2: I'm a free speech advocate, and the evidence of my

648
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 2: being a free speech advocate is the cesspool I've created

649
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 2: in my private sector enterprise that has no standards. That's

650
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: not free speech, that's a sewer. But the government in

651
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: this country must not, cannot, and never restrict speech, no

652
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 2: matter how loathsome it may be. And when you think

653
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 2: about loadsome right wing speech, I'll just tell you a

654
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,919
Speaker 2: quick story, Sam, going back to World War Two, one

655
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 2: of the obnoxious proprietors of the day, the Rubert Murdoch

656
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: of the moment, was Colonel McCormick, who ran the Chicago

657
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: Sun Times, and he was an ardent foe of FDRs.

658
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: And what he did after the Battle of Midway, despite

659
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:14,839
Speaker 2: FDR and the American victory, was published the fact that

660
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: the United States had broken the Japanese Code, and that

661
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: was one of the most closely held secrets of the war. FDR,

662
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 2: who had a mellow personality and was gracious towards people,

663
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 2: wanted to hang him and insisted that he be hung

664
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: for treason until he.

665
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 1: Was calmed down. So this is nothing new.

666
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 2: There are injurious organizations that act with great irresponsibility, but

667
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: the restriction of speech by government always leads down a

668
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: slippery slope to a very very dark place.

669
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I would just add at this particular moment,

670
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: the tragedy is that mass communication had has become so

671
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 3: mass and so powerful that the ability of one so

672
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 3: called news organization to have a scale of impact probably

673
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 3: beyond any other news organization maybe in the history of

674
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 3: the country.

675
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 2: What I would say too, is somebody who has been

676
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 2: smeared by these networks, in these organizations. The way you

677
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: remedy this is not by locking up news executives and

678
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: restricting speech. It is by loosening libel laws. Because I

679
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: should have the ability to have an action against anyone

680
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 2: of a number of news organizations who have defame, who

681
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,320
Speaker 2: have smeared, who have lied, and because I'm a public figure,

682
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: it's almost impossible. If you put a financial reward for

683
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: the lies in the terms of profits, you will get

684
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 2: more of it. If you've increase liability legally for the lies,

685
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 2: you will get less of it. It's a very very

686
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 2: simple construct, and you've seen it all through American business

687
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 2: when American companies were dumping shit in every river in

688
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 2: the country. The way that that stopped is the enormous

689
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 2: legal liabilities that were imposed civilly and criminally.

690
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: And that's how you deal with it.

691
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 2: You deal with civil litigation on the cost of telling

692
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: lies and defaming people's character and have a updated twenty

693
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: first century kind of libel law and structure. And you

694
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 2: look at the dominion case. Has that affected Fox's behavior?

695
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 2: It has affected Fox's behavior because they have seven hundred

696
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 2: and eighty seven million reasons not to lie about and

697
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: they have another billion dollar case in front of them.

698
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:53,840
Speaker 3: Right, the question is how many more billions will it

699
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 3: take before they finally decide to, you know, to stop it.

700
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: Well, maybe maybe it takes eighty billion dollars, right, Maybe

701
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 2: maybe it takes fifty billion dollars, but I promise you

702
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 2: there's an amount of money in cash. That's the branking point.

703
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 4: Okay, next question, John Ada asks, even if Trump loses

704
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 4: in twenty four, he won't concede, and we basically have

705
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 4: a party that is anti democratic and continuing to overthrow democracy.

706
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 4: What can be done?

707
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 3: Stephen Well, I think the preface of the question, the

708
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 3: premise of the question is exactly right. Under no circumstances

709
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 3: will Trump say that he lost, whatever the numbers are,

710
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: Which is why I've been advocating for as massive a

711
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 3: turnout as possible to make clear that that's that that's

712
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 3: once again a lie and intolerable. You know, I think

713
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 3: we're going to be carrying a population that doesn't believe

714
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 3: in democracy and a leadership that's willing to go along

715
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 3: with the lie to be able to sustain their own position.

716
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 3: You know, that doesn't mean that Trump is going to

717
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 3: take power, you know, come come January in twenty twenty five,

718
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 3: but it does mean that, you know, it will take

719
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 3: I think, at the very least an overwhelming defeat, an

720
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 3: overwhelming defeat for that lie to be I think, as

721
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: clear as possible, for as large a population as possible.

722
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 4: So building on that, Ken Richard asks, how do we

723
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 4: get people to care about democracy? Because his belief is

724
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 4: that it's apathy that's killing our democracy.

725
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 2: Steve well, Trump's coalition is essentially a coalition of fanatics

726
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: plus apathy plus lassitude indifference towards the moment. This notion

727
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: that there's real no difference between the parties, and that

728
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: has always been the Achilles Hill of any democratic system.

729
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: What I would say is, there is no magic word.

730
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 3: Right.

731
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: It's not a.

732
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 2: Magic wand it's not the opposite of invoking Voldemort.

733
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 1: Right.

734
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 2: Democracy has to be explained, renewed.

735
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 1: It's a fee.

736
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 2: And there's a really important speech that Franklin rose Avelt

737
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 2: gives in nineteen thirty six. It's the Convention Speech, and

738
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: Joe Biden needs to read this speech five thousand times

739
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 2: because what FDR says in the speech is we're Americans,

740
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: and there was a king once upon a time, and

741
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: there were dukes and all these monarchs, and we got

742
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 2: rid of the king. But now there's new monarchs, and

743
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 2: there's new kings, and there's new royalty, and there's always

744
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: going to be new kings, and we got to get

745
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 2: rid of them those cakes. And he explains democracy in

746
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 2: a very accessible way. You have heard me talk about

747
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: the story of the woman in Ohio, a twenty seven

748
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: year old black woman who is arrested for desecrating a

749
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: corpse who has a miscarriage in her twenty fifth week,

750
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 2: and she is charged with crime. And her story is

751
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 2: that she goes to the hospital on the first day,

752
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 2: she waits for eight hours, she's not seen, she has

753
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 2: some bleeding, hospital convenies and ethics committee hearing because of

754
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 2: the Ohio abortion law. She's not seen on the second

755
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 2: return and on the third day is when she has

756
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 2: the miscarriage. Does she live in a democracy? I don't

757
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 2: think she lives in a democracy. If you're a black

758
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 2: parent and you live in terror about your young black

759
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 2: son going out behind the wheel at night driving to work,

760
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: do you live in a democracy?

761
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 1: Not all the time?

762
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: What if you're in the cohort of forty percent it

763
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 2: doesn't have four hundred dollars or your ten million plus

764
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 2: people in the country who are deemed unbanked by Jamie

765
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 2: Diamond and the other banks CEOs, do they live in

766
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:20,880
Speaker 2: a democracy? And so the expansion of democracy has always

767
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: been at the heart of the contestation of values in

768
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 2: American politics. Should women have the right to vote? Should

769
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 2: blacks have the right to vote? Should Lutina farm workers

770
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 2: have the right to organize for a living wage. Should

771
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 2: people's human dignity.

772
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: And human rights be recognized?

773
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 2: And that is the essential fight at hand in this

774
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: moment right now?

775
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's such a big question,

776
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 3: and I just want to say one thing, which is

777
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 3: because we haven't touched on abortion, but I think there's

778
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 3: no question that the issue around you know, women's freedom,

779
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 3: reproductive freedom, is going to be at the heart of

780
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 3: this election, I think, along with democracy, and that you

781
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 3: know that as much as anything is also a matter

782
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 3: of democracy. You know, do you know, do half of

783
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 3: our country have the right to have control of their

784
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 3: own bodies? Does half of our country, you know, have

785
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 3: the right to make decisions for themselves as part of

786
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 3: a system of government that's committed to UH to self governance,

787
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 3: and the stripping of a way, stripping of it away

788
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,279
Speaker 3: looks an awful like a lot like it's the end

789
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 3: of self governance. And I think we have in many

790
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 3: ways an opportunity through the discussion of reproductive rights and

791
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 3: opportunity to also to talk about the meaning of democracy.

792
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 4: So we are out of time, but I'm going to

793
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 4: ask each of you this final question asked by Suzanne Taylor,

794
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 4: and I'll ask you to answer for Steven, if you

795
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 4: ran the world, what would you do you to straighten

796
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 4: it out?

797
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 3: Goodness, Sorry, that's supposed to be like a one sentence answer,

798
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 3: you know what. I what I would say is that

799
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 3: you know there are there are two overarching existential dangers

800
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 3: facing the planet right now. One one is the potential

801
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 3: demise of democracy. The other is the climate crisis that

802
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 3: has profound implications for the health of the planet and

803
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 3: the survival of the human species. And I think that

804
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 3: the future in many ways has to be more about cooperation,

805
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 3: and not cooperation just within our borders, but between borders,

806
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 3: between regions. I think that our global institutions haven't been

807
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 3: working very well, but I think there are versions of

808
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 3: that regional cooperative entities that need to be formed if

809
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 3: we're going to have a chance to deal with a

810
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 3: lot of our problems that are not defined by nations,

811
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 3: defined by borders.

812
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 4: And Steve Schmidt, how would you what would you do

813
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 4: to straighten out the world if you ran it?

814
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 2: I would say everything as Steven said, plus reggae for

815
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 2: all the reggae.

816
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: For all the people. We're reggae.

817
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 4: So I will turn things back over to you Steve

818
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 4: to close.

819
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: Things up well with We're Reggae for all the people.

820
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 2: We can solve some of the world's problems at least.

821
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 2: But it's a real pleasure to be joined by Stephen

822
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: Bechlows again Substack America. We live in a consequential moment,

823
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 2: in a consequential time. Stephen Bechlos is a serious person,

824
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 2: not an alarmest person. And when you understand history and

825
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 2: you appreciate FHA's value, what is being said, what is

826
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 2: being done, The promise is being made, the strategies being employed,

827
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 2: the promise is being laid down into You can come

828
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: to no other conclusion that this is a moment of

829
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 2: grave national crisis that requires the participation of all good

830
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 2: citizens and American patriots everywhere. And to understand that nationalism

831
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,920
Speaker 2: has always been the enemy of humanity, that nationalism is

832
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: the enemy of American patriotism. And there is no such

833
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 2: thing as American nationalism that is consistent with the ideas

834
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 2: and ideals of the United States of America, not our creed,

835
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 2: not our values, not our constitution. And with that, thank

836
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 2: you all very much, and I bid you a good night, Thank.

837
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 3: You, thank you.

838
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 2: I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning and I invite

839
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 2: you to join. Subscribe on our substack, on our YouTube channel,

840
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 2: follow us, welcome them to the community.