WEBVTT - The Draft Show: Tom Ciskowski Joins The Team 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:07.720 This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Cowboys. 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.720 I'm there war room for incenter news and draft analysis 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.159 from deep within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:20.599 Star in Fresco, Dallas Cowboys. Select Lady and now your 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:25.800 host Brian brought us well, well, welcome to the Draft Show. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:31.200 It's our annual bye week draft show. I really appreciate 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.160 everybody hanging out with us across the country, across the world. 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.520 Matter of fact, we appreciate all you guys a lot. 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.199 As the Big Boys guy said, I'm Brian brought us 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.239 joined by my drafting buddy David Hellman. It's good to 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:46.760 be back with you, Brian. Yes, it's always good to 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.320 have you, David. I appreciate that. And I really really 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:54.920 pleased to add a new member to our draft show, 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.320 a guy who I have a ton of respect for, 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:01.640 Allegen and if you will, yeah, I used to battle 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.160 him quite a bit when I was in Green Bay, 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.080 and he went out and found guys like Larry Allen 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.560 to make sure my life was hell after that, and 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.960 so and then we later became teammates with Dallas Cowboys, 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:21.920 and I'm a better scout for it. And fortunately for 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.200 us and for the Draft show. Sometimes you lose scouts, 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:27.679 you know, Dane Bruglen, we lost him just for this show, 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:29.960 but we'll have him for other things. But we picked 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:35.800 up a scout, a great personnel man and Tom Siskowski Thomas, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.280 welcome to the Dark Side of the World here. Thank you, Brian. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:40.800 It's great to be here. I'll tell you what. I'm 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.000 happy to have you, Tom, I really am. And this 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.680 man's got great insight. He's like me. He's been in 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.160 a lot of war rooms. He's won some of his 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.640 share of battles, he's lost some of his share of battles, 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.480 and he'll bring great insight to what we're trying to 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.520 do on a weekly basis. So I'm excited again to 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.200 have him here. We're excited to have everybody out there 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.480 that listens to us as Well's you guys make this uh, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.440 you know what we're all about here, the investigation and 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:10.680 the education that's important to me. I also want to 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:15.760 thank you know, Katin Gates, who's executive producing taking over 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.600 for Kent Garrison. Him and William Boykins will be helping 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.360 us along these journeys. So we got a couple of 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.919 new new members of the team, but we will still 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.359 have the same quality of draft show. I promise you. 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.800 I promise you that. All right, Thomas, since I've got 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.720 you here, I want to go back and talk about 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.519 what this team did in the two thousand and nineteen 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.760 NFL Draft, and I want to get into the point 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:46.280 of this as the way of looking at it, the 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.080 thought without and I've been with you when we didn't 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.320 have a first round pick. I've been with you a 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.520 couple of times and we didn't have a first round pick. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.440 But I want to know the when you guys were 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.960 going into this draft, the thought of, Okay, how we're 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.280 going to set up this board? Do you set it 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.080 up in the way of we just gotta we got 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.839 to grade them, give the players their due, and then 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.280 find an area of players that we might like at 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.280 fifty eight. How did you guys get to the process 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.440 of when you guys made that pick in fifty eight? Well, basically, 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.959 you want to keep the board pure because you never 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.960 know if there's a great trade opportunity where a team 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:27.960 wants to bail and you could end up in the 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:31.680 first round. So you've got to value every player. It's 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:36.120 like a currency that there's value to each player. But 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:38.480 for the most part, if you feel like you're going 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.960 to stay put at the second round, yeah, you'll have 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.560 a gauge of guys that you're hoping you're there. Yeah, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:46.880 but what you don't want to do is pump air 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:49.640 into them and hoping that they'll be there. Just give 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.840 them their value. And I'll probably repeat this many many times. 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.320 If the board is pure, you're not thinking about need 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.920 where you pick, and then a player like uh, Jason 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:05.560 Witten could fall to you in the third round. So 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.080 that's that's a basic approach. You don't even think about 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.360 where you're you're picking, but in the back of your 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.080 mind there's still that little Christmas wish list that I 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.840 hope two or three of these guys were there while 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.400 we're picking. Yeah, David, I always talk about this. I'm 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.159 cheerleading for players, you know. I mean Tommy draft Tommy, 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.280 I mean like you know, and I always talk about 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.520 the fake pin throw that I have when oh that 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:29.240 guy went too bad, you know, that kind of thing. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.479 But I'm one of these guys that I'm with you 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.400 and you know, David, when we were working on this draft, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.520 we kind of had an idea that Tristan Hill was 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:39.560 going to be this guy just because of the lead 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.920 up to it. Did you that was kind of where 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.000 the direction we were going right when? Yeah, I think 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.680 we've got a pretty good track record of getting chasing 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.400 these picks, just getting the right names highlighted. Yeah, Like 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.320 we're not always right, but we can typically sort of 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:56.840 draw it down to a cluster. And I mean, yeah, 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.320 we were when we were on Layton vander ash super early. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.000 Tristan Hill was the same way. Okay, but remember this 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:07.200 also too, and Tommy help us on this. We were 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.840 thinking about safeties too. Oh yeah, there were a lot 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.279 of safeties on that board at the time that when 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.560 we were and you know, there's some people now if 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.800 you look at what Tristan Hill has done or the 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.520 lack of what he hasn't done, and he's a young player, 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.800 let's not throw him into what's happened with Taco and 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.960 stuff like that, you know, and that's another show for 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.800 another day right there. But you know, were we the 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.760 thought about that though? Why not some of those safeties. 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.400 Did the safeties have the same consideration as say, what 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.040 Tristan Hill or was Tristan Hill always going to be 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.760 that pick? I don't, not necessarily. I believe that we 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.960 looked at it and we strategized and we said, you know, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.960 this is a good player. We like the safeties. Yeah, 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.880 but with every pick, you look at your board. I mean, 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:55.159 you don't know what the other thirty one teams are doing, right, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.839 I've seen this happening happen numerous times. There could be 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.280 four or five safeties that you like. Yeah, and you'll 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:05.080 say to yourself, like me, well, if if we take 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.600 one of the safeties there, we might not be in 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.360 a position to draft Tristan Hill in the third round. Also, okay, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.320 if we take Tristan Hill in the second, one of 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.400 these safeties could potentially fall to us in the third. Okay, 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.599 so the strategy within okay, pick in the round, which 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.320 sounds a lot like what they did with Taco and 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.960 the taco Yeah, okay, well then okay, we'll tak me 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.440 taught me through the Taco thing. Then, is it felt 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.719 like that? Okay, everybody's thinking they need a corner. You 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.200 guys needed a corner, and they we're thinking, oh, Kevin King, 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.720 you know, guys like that. But all of a sudden, 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.719 it's like, wait a minute, we can't make these defensive 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.960 ends stretch, can we I mean that that's and that 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.120 was in that Taco draft. That's that why Taco probably 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.240 was drafted here that process. I believe there were two 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:52.320 or three defensive ends the UCLA. I don't call Tack McKinley. Yes, 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.400 he was one that we were looking atlantic, right right 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.800 ahead of right ahead of us. But I think what 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.080 you want to do, I believe this, I've made the 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:04.960 mistake as a young scout. You want to leave the 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.360 emotion out of it. Yeah, and you just want to say, 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.080 you know, we've got this guy grade at higher than 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.920 this other player, sure, and value what the scouts do. Yeah, 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.600 kind of like with Zach Martin. Okay, they're gonna you're 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.880 gonna maybe draft Chaser, but he goes then all of 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.760 a sudden, manzels on the board and you're like going, 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.320 wait a minute, Jerry, take the emotion out of it. Here. 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.880 We got Zack Martin's got a grade right up there 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.200 that's good enough for us to draft. Is that that's 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.120 a great that's a great example. We were looking at 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:40.280 Shazir and Fuller who the Bears took, Yeah, boom, and 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.160 then Zack Martin sitting there and there was a little 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:45.640 bit of a letdown in the room. And you know, 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.040 I speak. I said the guys, this guy's a good player. Yeah, 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.240 and Jack Martin, oh, my guy, we should be very 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.160 I knew Tony Wise very well. And he spent the 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.360 training camp ye former former Calgoy line coach, super Bowl 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.720 line he was. He was a friend the offensive line 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.960 coach and Notre Dame and he spent fall camp with him. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.280 He said, he just told me just taking and he's 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.000 proven to be that. Yeah, okay, So let me ask 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:10.760 you this, Tom, And it's I mean, we talk about 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.800 this all the time. The taco The taco thing is 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.680 the famous example or base. It was like, if you 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.640 don't get your pass rusher at twenty eight, you're probably 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.040 not getting him right period, right. And meanwhile, you feel 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.360 good about the cornerback depth. You could maybe make a 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.520 similar argument that you know, they're safeties that will be 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.400 hanging around later. We might not be able to get 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.840 a defensive tackle that can do what we want later on. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.720 So how do you balance the strategy of the depth 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.040 of positions in the draft with not reaching because you 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.199 need something? But I think that's you know, that's a 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.280 Jerry's call ultimately in the head coach, the scouts presented, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.360 the coaches present their information, and then he has to 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.760 just kind of trust his gut on what he wants 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.640 to do on that. So I think that's a Jerry 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.760 gut call, is what you're saying. I think so. And 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.600 I think you have to look at um, you know, 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.480 every It's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback and said, 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.520 well we should have ran more, thrown more, or this 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.120 players playing better. But at the time, how we had 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:16.199 these players graded. They're all just wadded up right right 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.640 in there. And you know, Jerry might refer to Will, 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.240 he might refer to a scout, he might refer to 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.920 the head coach, Well what do you or or a 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.160 position coach, what do you think here on this? And 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:32.760 if one or one of the people involved has a 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.360 strong conviction for the player. Yeah, and a lot of 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.760 times that you know, Jerry will will make that pick. Okay. Well, 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:40.640 let me ask you this though, and my experience of 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.400 working with you and then Jerry, and I've tried to 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.560 convey this message to people though, is that And you're 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.480 one of those scouts that always spoke up. I remember, 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.320 I remember you a lot of times and me working 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.440 on the pro side and you handle the college stuff. 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.880 I remember it like, man, Tom ain't messing around here. 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.600 And I always appreciate the fact that you stepped up 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.120 and would say your piece on that. But did you 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.800 did you feel like that there were there were in 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.480 maybe with the Taco or maybe within with Tristan Hill. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:12.880 Was there more of an influence from another Was it 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.040 more influence from the coaching side of it? Was it 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.760 with the scouts? Did the scouts Did you have some 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.080 scouts that maybe said, well, wait a minute, not not 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.679 this guy, maybe somebody else. Yes, And that that happens 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.319 that you never see one player the same way. And 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.200 like I said earlier, there was a little bit of 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.160 a split on him, and they didn't say that he 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.640 wasn't a good player, but at that value, there was 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.600 maybe some people that said, well, he's going to need 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.040 some development, which is shown that he will. I know 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.120 he's got all the tools to do it. So I'm 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.319 still rooting for him and banking him to do that. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.559 But that's when you have to But I will say 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.960 this too, is you know you can find safeties, you 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.679 can find out linebackers. You should find a block and 0:10:55.760 --> 0:11:00.600 tied end. But this is a Bill Parcells ism that is, 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.360 if you can set the tone for your team with 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.520 your offensive and defensive lineman, sure that it get the 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.160 other players. It becomes contagious that they they So if 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.280 you're really strong as your old line and D line. 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.520 So in a lot of cases, if things are even 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.880 from comparing a safety to a defensive lineman, you're gonna 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.480 draft the defensive lineman. Yeah, so would agree with that. Yeah, 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.840 just as a general rule of thumb. And I and 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.319 you know it's Tom just mentioned it's it's kind of 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.440 born out that way, is you know, it hasn't clearly 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.520 hasn't been a stellar first seven weeks of Tristan Hill's career. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.000 Doesn't mean he's a flop, No, not at all. I 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.920 was just but the process. When you're picking at fifty 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.960 eight with no first round pick, you're at the mercy 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.040 of the board to begin with. But like Tom was saying, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.400 do you do you you find yourself? Do you lock 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.920 in or do you You know that's because all those 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.240 like you say to me that draft will be about 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.880 how those safeties played. That's to me. Yeah, that's to me. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.360 And I think we all had something different. You know, 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.640 I liked I like Taylor Rapp. Yeah, I don't think 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.880 they liked Taylor Rapp. But you know, and I have 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.079 a guy right here sitting in that room, but you 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.720 know he Tommy might like to want Thornehill. Yeah it 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.760 was that wan Thornhill, one of your guys. See that. See, 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.320 and I knew that. I knew that because I know 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.360 what kind of scout he is, you know, yeah, you 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.880 know when you yeah, we spend enough time together that 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.760 you know that Tommy will fight if you know, he's 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.720 talking about the offensive line or the defensive line. But 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:29.559 you're sitting there and also in the room, you're thinking, 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.000 at wan Thornhill is going to be a damn good 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.959 player for somebody, and I mean it, And you feel 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.280 like though that maybe you know we can, we can 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.800 we pass him by for this guy. See, that's the 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:45.120 problem that scouts have. Your your conviction is so strong 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.040 and you want so bad, but sometimes you have to 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:52.000 just let the room, let the room have their their 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.160 their pick more and more. You know, what is this? 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.480 You know, when the spring starts up, will this be 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.679 the seventh year we've done this or something like that 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.120 been doing in a while. More and more every year, 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:08.120 I learned that the ideal is to draft as purely 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.040 as possible, and he just said that, yeah, but it's 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.920 so much easier said than done. Like if something slaps 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.600 you in the face, you know, uh, Connor mcgovernor, that's 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.120 I'm saying. Okay, Connor mcgovernor. It's a great example. But 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.000 all things being equal, Okay, if a guy with the 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.840 second round grade falls to you at ninety one, like 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:26.520 I said, if it just slaps you in the face 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.480 and it's so obvious that there's nothing you can do 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.520 about it, that's one thing. But when you're stuck with 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.559 a cluster of players, or you're at the mercy of 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.920 the board because you're picking late, and you're thinking about 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.280 what you need and maybe maybe not too much, but 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:45.760 you know it's there, it's hard to completely ignore those things. 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.680 And that's why I think you know, you wind up 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.880 drafting Taco at twenty eight because you know you can 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.000 get your dbs later. That's why you draft Hill because 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.520 you say, you know, maybe he doesn't have a role 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.440 from day one, but his potential is so much higher 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.560 at a position, and that is so much more important. 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.080 And that I think It colors a lot of the 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.200 decisions that get made. And that's not just the Cowboys, 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:07.719 that's all over the way. What was that a thought? Though? 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.080 When you draft Hill, you're thinking about Malik Collins maybe 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.640 not being here. It's glass year of his contract. Does 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.000 how much does that come into play? It comes into 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.360 place some but that that was not brought up, and 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.840 so that's that was wrong with me. Yeah, behind the scenes, 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.480 something I might add about scouting, you know, it's more 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.280 than just watching them in their shorts or in the 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.560 uniform or pro day in the spring. Yeah. I had 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:37.240 a very very good contact at Virginia and you got 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.920 good contacts all over the country. Well, it was with 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.400 his name Price and we had coached together UNLV and 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:49.800 he started comparing this kid intangibly. We're talking about this guy, 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.440 this guy, this guy. And there's no guarantees in any 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.440 of this. But he had the right DNA and he 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.000 was a player that he wasn't perfect d But I 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:05.640 think that both players, if they fulfill their potential, Hill 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.920 and Thorne Hill will have very good careers. Yeah. See 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.000 that's the thing about it though, is is okay? And 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.000 then at the end of the day, here I mean, 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:14.960 you know, at the end of the show, I want 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.800 to get into as you watch this football team, what 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.000 do you think they need? Well, that's just a little 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.600 tease for the end, and when we get down to it, 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.760 I want to know, as we watch this team, you 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.200 know what what you think they need? You know, it 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:34.240 was this is the safety necessary? You know? Yeah? But 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.400 I mean, I, well, do you agree with me at 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.400 least in theory time and not like you don't even 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.320 have to make it specific to the Tristan Hill thing, 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.240 but in general, and you know it doesn't have to 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.560 be as specific as you know, MALIEK. Collins is in 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.560 a contract year. But when you determine the value of 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.360 a position to your scheme, what you have at that 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.720 position under contract right now, and then the talent pool, 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.720 it can be hard to raft as purely as you 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.720 would prefer to, no question, Yeah, no question. Now, some 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.760 a lot of teams that they could care less about 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.560 the contract. They want to They want to draft the 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:15.880 highest rated player available and they feel like because their 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.960 way of thinking. And I've asked some teams this and 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.280 they'll you know, their philosophy is this. They said, well, 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.360 we're really strong, let's say an offensive lineman, and they 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.320 have a guy that's fell in their lap in the 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.960 second round. Okay, they said, well, is there any guarantees 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.440 that we won't have injuries there this year? Sure? And 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.920 so they look at it. It's a long drawn out 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.200 NFL season, so they feel like just if they're getting 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.960 great value that that it's going to add to the 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.400 cream of their team. And they take a guy in 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.040 the second round and he shows that he can be 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.120 a future starter that can help you win a super Bowl, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:54.000 then they might let a season veteran go, which in turn, 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.960 this player signs with another club for big money. Now 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.160 you're probably going to get a comparis to a pickup there. 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.480 Go yeah, yeah. Let me ask you this though, Tommy, 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.040 And Okay, that's Connor McGovern has a second round grade 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.240 on your board, right basically, I mean that's kind of 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.320 I mean, you're you're sitting there at ninety and all 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.040 of a sudden, way we got a second round grade 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.560 on this guy that could play center or can play guard. 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.639 Is that is that really how that thought all that 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.400 went down on that one? Yes, yes, again. Value and 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.080 when you can find a guy that has position flexibility 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.199 that can play one or excuse. You can play two positions, right, 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:27.280 you know that's a guy that has a chance to 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.640 go the game because he can back up to two positions. Okay, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.280 how about Tony Pollard? Okay, tell me that the part 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.399 I had heard that that that Kelvin Moore was completely 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.280 on board with with Tony Pollard was totally on board. 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.240 I mean the staff, the scouts, everybody was on board 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.879 about the talk about the the the drafting of Tony Pollard. Well, 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.440 I went to Memphis, I went to the pro day 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.439 as well. My point on Tony I saw him as 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.400 a short term quote unquote starter with the twenty plus 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.879 touches a game. Yeah, but if you had, if you 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.720 could choosel out the perfect role for him, you would 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.840 maybe have him catch six passes, carry the ball ten 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.200 to twelve times, and then return four or five times. 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.840 So that's his twenty to twenty two touches. Sure, can 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.199 you take the part about six receptions and run it 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.520 over to the coaching wing of this building. Let him 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.439 know you had it right. Yeah, you had it right. Yeah, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.200 yeah you really did there. But okay, we get down 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.560 into like the and then like the Donovan Wilson's guys 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.199 like that that Joe Jacksons was that more when you 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.120 get We're always talking about traits, what the traits? What 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.439 was the trade with the with Donovan Wilson, the safety 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.679 from Texas A and M Well, he was a physical player, 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.600 you know, a little tight, but he got around the football. 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.280 You could kind of feel him on tape. His energy. 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.719 As far as Joe Jackson concern, just a big body 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.960 that I've seen Rod bring in guys just off the street. Yeah, 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.639 and when they do his drills, they get better. And 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:53.679 I saw Joe is that type of guy that he 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:58.840 would continue to work and would improve within our scheme. Yeah. 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.399 I think so too. I mean I like now to me, 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:03.359 you know, you look at these drafts and then you 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.679 go to the previous draft before that with the Layton vandersh, 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.639 Connor Williams, Michael Gallup. Man, you guys knocked that thing 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:11.719 out of the park. It was a good draft. Yeah, 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.959 that thing just seemed to fall just right for you 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:16.040 guys though, Didn't it that that draft the way that 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.000 they all worked out, you know, Layton Vanderish at nineteen, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.919 Connor Williams at fifty, Michael Gallop at eighty one. I 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.720 mean it just seemed like that that the where the 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.040 players were on that board, it worked out great for 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:30.959 you guys. Yes, and if you remember the two thousand 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.479 and nine draft, I believe, yeah, it just what we 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.560 We love players. And then about two or three picks 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:41.000 before we were on the clock, that particular player that 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:45.200 we really coveted, Yeah, it was selected. So I think 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.080 in this process too, you gotta have a little luck. Yeah. Yeah, 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:49.879 I've been with you before when I felt like that, 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.280 I'm like, man, we we got lucky on that one. 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.399 We really did. Or you know, oh man, that that 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:56.840 was what fortune makes this whole thing so much. I'll 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:58.959 tell you what and and I'll say this about this 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.119 guy before we go to break here and uh we 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.560 this goes all the way back to Quincy Carter and 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:08.040 talking about that, and Tommy made the school call at Georgia, 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.160 He and Walter Julia and they were adamant about what 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.040 Quincy Carter was, and they were absolutely right about Quincy Carter, 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.960 absolutely right about him. And he was absolutely right about 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.760 a player named Kendrell Bell that was a linebacker from 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.800 Georgia that ended up getting and we had a first 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.280