Speaker 1: This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Cowboys.
Speaker 1: I'm there war room for incenter news and draft analysis
Speaker 1: from deep within the confines of Cowboys headquarters at the
Speaker 1: Star in Fresco, Dallas Cowboys. Select Lady and now your
Speaker 1: host Brian brought us well, well, welcome to the Draft Show.
Speaker 1: It's our annual bye week draft show. I really appreciate
Speaker 1: everybody hanging out with us across the country, across the world.
Speaker 1: Matter of fact, we appreciate all you guys a lot.
Speaker 1: As the Big Boys guy said, I'm Brian brought us
Speaker 1: joined by my drafting buddy David Hellman. It's good to
Speaker 1: be back with you, Brian. Yes, it's always good to
Speaker 1: have you, David. I appreciate that. And I really really
Speaker 1: pleased to add a new member to our draft show,
Speaker 1: a guy who I have a ton of respect for,
Speaker 1: Allegen and if you will, yeah, I used to battle
Speaker 1: him quite a bit when I was in Green Bay,
Speaker 1: and he went out and found guys like Larry Allen
Speaker 1: to make sure my life was hell after that, and
Speaker 1: so and then we later became teammates with Dallas Cowboys,
Speaker 1: and I'm a better scout for it. And fortunately for
Speaker 1: us and for the Draft show. Sometimes you lose scouts,
Speaker 1: you know, Dane Bruglen, we lost him just for this show,
Speaker 1: but we'll have him for other things. But we picked
Speaker 1: up a scout, a great personnel man and Tom Siskowski Thomas,
Speaker 1: welcome to the Dark Side of the World here. Thank you, Brian.
Speaker 1: It's great to be here. I'll tell you what. I'm
Speaker 1: happy to have you, Tom, I really am. And this
Speaker 1: man's got great insight. He's like me. He's been in
Speaker 1: a lot of war rooms. He's won some of his
Speaker 1: share of battles, he's lost some of his share of battles,
Speaker 1: and he'll bring great insight to what we're trying to
Speaker 1: do on a weekly basis. So I'm excited again to
Speaker 1: have him here. We're excited to have everybody out there
Speaker 1: that listens to us as Well's you guys make this uh,
Speaker 1: you know what we're all about here, the investigation and
Speaker 1: the education that's important to me. I also want to
Speaker 1: thank you know, Katin Gates, who's executive producing taking over
Speaker 1: for Kent Garrison. Him and William Boykins will be helping
Speaker 1: us along these journeys. So we got a couple of
Speaker 1: new new members of the team, but we will still
Speaker 1: have the same quality of draft show. I promise you.
Speaker 1: I promise you that. All right, Thomas, since I've got
Speaker 1: you here, I want to go back and talk about
Speaker 1: what this team did in the two thousand and nineteen
Speaker 1: NFL Draft, and I want to get into the point
Speaker 1: of this as the way of looking at it, the
Speaker 1: thought without and I've been with you when we didn't
Speaker 1: have a first round pick. I've been with you a
Speaker 1: couple of times and we didn't have a first round pick.
Speaker 1: But I want to know the when you guys were
Speaker 1: going into this draft, the thought of, Okay, how we're
Speaker 1: going to set up this board? Do you set it
Speaker 1: up in the way of we just gotta we got
Speaker 1: to grade them, give the players their due, and then
Speaker 1: find an area of players that we might like at
Speaker 1: fifty eight. How did you guys get to the process
Speaker 1: of when you guys made that pick in fifty eight? Well, basically,
Speaker 1: you want to keep the board pure because you never
Speaker 1: know if there's a great trade opportunity where a team
Speaker 1: wants to bail and you could end up in the
Speaker 1: first round. So you've got to value every player. It's
Speaker 1: like a currency that there's value to each player. But
Speaker 1: for the most part, if you feel like you're going
Speaker 1: to stay put at the second round, yeah, you'll have
Speaker 1: a gauge of guys that you're hoping you're there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what you don't want to do is pump air
Speaker 1: into them and hoping that they'll be there. Just give
Speaker 1: them their value. And I'll probably repeat this many many times.
Speaker 1: If the board is pure, you're not thinking about need
Speaker 1: where you pick, and then a player like uh, Jason
Speaker 1: Witten could fall to you in the third round. So
Speaker 1: that's that's a basic approach. You don't even think about
Speaker 1: where you're you're picking, but in the back of your
Speaker 1: mind there's still that little Christmas wish list that I
Speaker 1: hope two or three of these guys were there while
Speaker 1: we're picking. Yeah, David, I always talk about this. I'm
Speaker 1: cheerleading for players, you know. I mean Tommy draft Tommy,
Speaker 1: I mean like you know, and I always talk about
Speaker 1: the fake pin throw that I have when oh that
Speaker 1: guy went too bad, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But I'm one of these guys that I'm with you
Speaker 1: and you know, David, when we were working on this draft,
Speaker 1: we kind of had an idea that Tristan Hill was
Speaker 1: going to be this guy just because of the lead
Speaker 1: up to it. Did you that was kind of where
Speaker 1: the direction we were going right when? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we've got a pretty good track record of getting chasing
Speaker 1: these picks, just getting the right names highlighted. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: we're not always right, but we can typically sort of
Speaker 1: draw it down to a cluster. And I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: we were when we were on Layton vander ash super early.
Speaker 1: Tristan Hill was the same way. Okay, but remember this
Speaker 1: also too, and Tommy help us on this. We were
Speaker 1: thinking about safeties too. Oh yeah, there were a lot
Speaker 1: of safeties on that board at the time that when
Speaker 1: we were and you know, there's some people now if
Speaker 1: you look at what Tristan Hill has done or the
Speaker 1: lack of what he hasn't done, and he's a young player,
Speaker 1: let's not throw him into what's happened with Taco and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, you know, and that's another show for
Speaker 1: another day right there. But you know, were we the
Speaker 1: thought about that though? Why not some of those safeties.
Speaker 1: Did the safeties have the same consideration as say, what
Speaker 1: Tristan Hill or was Tristan Hill always going to be
Speaker 1: that pick? I don't, not necessarily. I believe that we
Speaker 1: looked at it and we strategized and we said, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a good player. We like the safeties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but with every pick, you look at your board. I mean,
Speaker 1: you don't know what the other thirty one teams are doing, right,
Speaker 1: I've seen this happening happen numerous times. There could be
Speaker 1: four or five safeties that you like. Yeah, and you'll
Speaker 1: say to yourself, like me, well, if if we take
Speaker 1: one of the safeties there, we might not be in
Speaker 1: a position to draft Tristan Hill in the third round. Also, okay,
Speaker 1: if we take Tristan Hill in the second, one of
Speaker 1: these safeties could potentially fall to us in the third. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the strategy within okay, pick in the round, which
Speaker 1: sounds a lot like what they did with Taco and
Speaker 1: the taco Yeah, okay, well then okay, we'll tak me
Speaker 1: taught me through the Taco thing. Then, is it felt
Speaker 1: like that? Okay, everybody's thinking they need a corner. You
Speaker 1: guys needed a corner, and they we're thinking, oh, Kevin King,
Speaker 1: you know, guys like that. But all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it's like, wait a minute, we can't make these defensive
Speaker 1: ends stretch, can we I mean that that's and that
Speaker 1: was in that Taco draft. That's that why Taco probably
Speaker 1: was drafted here that process. I believe there were two
Speaker 1: or three defensive ends the UCLA. I don't call Tack McKinley. Yes,
Speaker 1: he was one that we were looking atlantic, right right
Speaker 1: ahead of right ahead of us. But I think what
Speaker 1: you want to do, I believe this, I've made the
Speaker 1: mistake as a young scout. You want to leave the
Speaker 1: emotion out of it. Yeah, and you just want to say,
Speaker 1: you know, we've got this guy grade at higher than
Speaker 1: this other player, sure, and value what the scouts do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of like with Zach Martin. Okay, they're gonna you're
Speaker 1: gonna maybe draft Chaser, but he goes then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, manzels on the board and you're like going,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Jerry, take the emotion out of it. Here.
Speaker 1: We got Zack Martin's got a grade right up there
Speaker 1: that's good enough for us to draft. Is that that's
Speaker 1: a great that's a great example. We were looking at
Speaker 1: Shazir and Fuller who the Bears took, Yeah, boom, and
Speaker 1: then Zack Martin sitting there and there was a little
Speaker 1: bit of a letdown in the room. And you know,
Speaker 1: I speak. I said the guys, this guy's a good player. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Jack Martin, oh, my guy, we should be very
Speaker 1: I knew Tony Wise very well. And he spent the
Speaker 1: training camp ye former former Calgoy line coach, super Bowl
Speaker 1: line he was. He was a friend the offensive line
Speaker 1: coach and Notre Dame and he spent fall camp with him.
Speaker 1: He said, he just told me just taking and he's
Speaker 1: proven to be that. Yeah, okay, So let me ask
Speaker 1: you this, Tom, And it's I mean, we talk about
Speaker 1: this all the time. The taco The taco thing is
Speaker 1: the famous example or base. It was like, if you
Speaker 1: don't get your pass rusher at twenty eight, you're probably
Speaker 1: not getting him right period, right. And meanwhile, you feel
Speaker 1: good about the cornerback depth. You could maybe make a
Speaker 1: similar argument that you know, they're safeties that will be
Speaker 1: hanging around later. We might not be able to get
Speaker 1: a defensive tackle that can do what we want later on.
Speaker 1: So how do you balance the strategy of the depth
Speaker 1: of positions in the draft with not reaching because you
Speaker 1: need something? But I think that's you know, that's a
Speaker 1: Jerry's call ultimately in the head coach, the scouts presented,
Speaker 1: the coaches present their information, and then he has to
Speaker 1: just kind of trust his gut on what he wants
Speaker 1: to do on that. So I think that's a Jerry
Speaker 1: gut call, is what you're saying. I think so. And
Speaker 1: I think you have to look at um, you know,
Speaker 1: every It's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback and said,
Speaker 1: well we should have ran more, thrown more, or this
Speaker 1: players playing better. But at the time, how we had
Speaker 1: these players graded. They're all just wadded up right right
Speaker 1: in there. And you know, Jerry might refer to Will,
Speaker 1: he might refer to a scout, he might refer to
Speaker 1: the head coach, Well what do you or or a
Speaker 1: position coach, what do you think here on this? And
Speaker 1: if one or one of the people involved has a
Speaker 1: strong conviction for the player. Yeah, and a lot of
Speaker 1: times that you know, Jerry will will make that pick. Okay. Well,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this though, and my experience of
Speaker 1: working with you and then Jerry, and I've tried to
Speaker 1: convey this message to people though, is that And you're
Speaker 1: one of those scouts that always spoke up. I remember,
Speaker 1: I remember you a lot of times and me working
Speaker 1: on the pro side and you handle the college stuff.
Speaker 1: I remember it like, man, Tom ain't messing around here.
Speaker 1: And I always appreciate the fact that you stepped up
Speaker 1: and would say your piece on that. But did you
Speaker 1: did you feel like that there were there were in
Speaker 1: maybe with the Taco or maybe within with Tristan Hill.
Speaker 1: Was there more of an influence from another Was it
Speaker 1: more influence from the coaching side of it? Was it
Speaker 1: with the scouts? Did the scouts Did you have some
Speaker 1: scouts that maybe said, well, wait a minute, not not
Speaker 1: this guy, maybe somebody else. Yes, And that that happens
Speaker 1: that you never see one player the same way. And
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, there was a little bit of
Speaker 1: a split on him, and they didn't say that he
Speaker 1: wasn't a good player, but at that value, there was
Speaker 1: maybe some people that said, well, he's going to need
Speaker 1: some development, which is shown that he will. I know
Speaker 1: he's got all the tools to do it. So I'm
Speaker 1: still rooting for him and banking him to do that.
Speaker 1: But that's when you have to But I will say
Speaker 1: this too, is you know you can find safeties, you
Speaker 1: can find out linebackers. You should find a block and
Speaker 1: tied end. But this is a Bill Parcells ism that is,
Speaker 1: if you can set the tone for your team with
Speaker 1: your offensive and defensive lineman, sure that it get the
Speaker 1: other players. It becomes contagious that they they So if
Speaker 1: you're really strong as your old line and D line.
Speaker 1: So in a lot of cases, if things are even
Speaker 1: from comparing a safety to a defensive lineman, you're gonna
Speaker 1: draft the defensive lineman. Yeah, so would agree with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just as a general rule of thumb. And I and
Speaker 1: you know it's Tom just mentioned it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: born out that way, is you know, it hasn't clearly
Speaker 1: hasn't been a stellar first seven weeks of Tristan Hill's career.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean he's a flop, No, not at all. I
Speaker 1: was just but the process. When you're picking at fifty
Speaker 1: eight with no first round pick, you're at the mercy
Speaker 1: of the board to begin with. But like Tom was saying,
Speaker 1: do you do you you find yourself? Do you lock
Speaker 1: in or do you You know that's because all those
Speaker 1: like you say to me that draft will be about
Speaker 1: how those safeties played. That's to me. Yeah, that's to me.
Speaker 1: And I think we all had something different. You know,
Speaker 1: I liked I like Taylor Rapp. Yeah, I don't think
Speaker 1: they liked Taylor Rapp. But you know, and I have
Speaker 1: a guy right here sitting in that room, but you
Speaker 1: know he Tommy might like to want Thornehill. Yeah it
Speaker 1: was that wan Thornhill, one of your guys. See that. See,
Speaker 1: and I knew that. I knew that because I know
Speaker 1: what kind of scout he is, you know, yeah, you
Speaker 1: know when you yeah, we spend enough time together that
Speaker 1: you know that Tommy will fight if you know, he's
Speaker 1: talking about the offensive line or the defensive line. But
Speaker 1: you're sitting there and also in the room, you're thinking,
Speaker 1: at wan Thornhill is going to be a damn good
Speaker 1: player for somebody, and I mean it, And you feel
Speaker 1: like though that maybe you know we can, we can
Speaker 1: we pass him by for this guy. See, that's the
Speaker 1: problem that scouts have. Your your conviction is so strong
Speaker 1: and you want so bad, but sometimes you have to
Speaker 1: just let the room, let the room have their their
Speaker 1: their pick more and more. You know, what is this?
Speaker 1: You know, when the spring starts up, will this be
Speaker 1: the seventh year we've done this or something like that
Speaker 1: been doing in a while. More and more every year,
Speaker 1: I learned that the ideal is to draft as purely
Speaker 1: as possible, and he just said that, yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: so much easier said than done. Like if something slaps
Speaker 1: you in the face, you know, uh, Connor mcgovernor, that's
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Okay, Connor mcgovernor. It's a great example. But
Speaker 1: all things being equal, Okay, if a guy with the
Speaker 1: second round grade falls to you at ninety one, like
Speaker 1: I said, if it just slaps you in the face
Speaker 1: and it's so obvious that there's nothing you can do
Speaker 1: about it, that's one thing. But when you're stuck with
Speaker 1: a cluster of players, or you're at the mercy of
Speaker 1: the board because you're picking late, and you're thinking about
Speaker 1: what you need and maybe maybe not too much, but
Speaker 1: you know it's there, it's hard to completely ignore those things.
Speaker 1: And that's why I think you know, you wind up
Speaker 1: drafting Taco at twenty eight because you know you can
Speaker 1: get your dbs later. That's why you draft Hill because
Speaker 1: you say, you know, maybe he doesn't have a role
Speaker 1: from day one, but his potential is so much higher
Speaker 1: at a position, and that is so much more important.
Speaker 1: And that I think It colors a lot of the
Speaker 1: decisions that get made. And that's not just the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: that's all over the way. What was that a thought? Though?
Speaker 1: When you draft Hill, you're thinking about Malik Collins maybe
Speaker 1: not being here. It's glass year of his contract. Does
Speaker 1: how much does that come into play? It comes into
Speaker 1: place some but that that was not brought up, and
Speaker 1: so that's that was wrong with me. Yeah, behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: something I might add about scouting, you know, it's more
Speaker 1: than just watching them in their shorts or in the
Speaker 1: uniform or pro day in the spring. Yeah. I had
Speaker 1: a very very good contact at Virginia and you got
Speaker 1: good contacts all over the country. Well, it was with
Speaker 1: his name Price and we had coached together UNLV and
Speaker 1: he started comparing this kid intangibly. We're talking about this guy,
Speaker 1: this guy, this guy. And there's no guarantees in any
Speaker 1: of this. But he had the right DNA and he
Speaker 1: was a player that he wasn't perfect d But I
Speaker 1: think that both players, if they fulfill their potential, Hill
Speaker 1: and Thorne Hill will have very good careers. Yeah. See
Speaker 1: that's the thing about it though, is is okay? And
Speaker 1: then at the end of the day, here I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the show, I want
Speaker 1: to get into as you watch this football team, what
Speaker 1: do you think they need? Well, that's just a little
Speaker 1: tease for the end, and when we get down to it,
Speaker 1: I want to know, as we watch this team, you
Speaker 1: know what what you think they need? You know, it
Speaker 1: was this is the safety necessary? You know? Yeah? But
Speaker 1: I mean, I, well, do you agree with me at
Speaker 1: least in theory time and not like you don't even
Speaker 1: have to make it specific to the Tristan Hill thing,
Speaker 1: but in general, and you know it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be as specific as you know, MALIEK. Collins is in
Speaker 1: a contract year. But when you determine the value of
Speaker 1: a position to your scheme, what you have at that
Speaker 1: position under contract right now, and then the talent pool,
Speaker 1: it can be hard to raft as purely as you
Speaker 1: would prefer to, no question, Yeah, no question. Now, some
Speaker 1: a lot of teams that they could care less about
Speaker 1: the contract. They want to They want to draft the
Speaker 1: highest rated player available and they feel like because their
Speaker 1: way of thinking. And I've asked some teams this and
Speaker 1: they'll you know, their philosophy is this. They said, well,
Speaker 1: we're really strong, let's say an offensive lineman, and they
Speaker 1: have a guy that's fell in their lap in the
Speaker 1: second round. Okay, they said, well, is there any guarantees
Speaker 1: that we won't have injuries there this year? Sure? And
Speaker 1: so they look at it. It's a long drawn out
Speaker 1: NFL season, so they feel like just if they're getting
Speaker 1: great value that that it's going to add to the
Speaker 1: cream of their team. And they take a guy in
Speaker 1: the second round and he shows that he can be
Speaker 1: a future starter that can help you win a super Bowl,
Speaker 1: then they might let a season veteran go, which in turn,
Speaker 1: this player signs with another club for big money. Now
Speaker 1: you're probably going to get a comparis to a pickup there.
Speaker 1: Go yeah, yeah. Let me ask you this though, Tommy,
Speaker 1: And Okay, that's Connor McGovern has a second round grade
Speaker 1: on your board, right basically, I mean that's kind of
Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're sitting there at ninety and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, way we got a second round grade
Speaker 1: on this guy that could play center or can play guard.
Speaker 1: Is that is that really how that thought all that
Speaker 1: went down on that one? Yes, yes, again. Value and
Speaker 1: when you can find a guy that has position flexibility
Speaker 1: that can play one or excuse. You can play two positions, right,
Speaker 1: you know that's a guy that has a chance to
Speaker 1: go the game because he can back up to two positions. Okay,
Speaker 1: how about Tony Pollard? Okay, tell me that the part
Speaker 1: I had heard that that that Kelvin Moore was completely
Speaker 1: on board with with Tony Pollard was totally on board.
Speaker 1: I mean the staff, the scouts, everybody was on board
Speaker 1: about the talk about the the the drafting of Tony Pollard. Well,
Speaker 1: I went to Memphis, I went to the pro day
Speaker 1: as well. My point on Tony I saw him as
Speaker 1: a short term quote unquote starter with the twenty plus
Speaker 1: touches a game. Yeah, but if you had, if you
Speaker 1: could choosel out the perfect role for him, you would
Speaker 1: maybe have him catch six passes, carry the ball ten
Speaker 1: to twelve times, and then return four or five times.
Speaker 1: So that's his twenty to twenty two touches. Sure, can
Speaker 1: you take the part about six receptions and run it
Speaker 1: over to the coaching wing of this building. Let him
Speaker 1: know you had it right. Yeah, you had it right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah you really did there. But okay, we get down
Speaker 1: into like the and then like the Donovan Wilson's guys
Speaker 1: like that that Joe Jacksons was that more when you
Speaker 1: get We're always talking about traits, what the traits? What
Speaker 1: was the trade with the with Donovan Wilson, the safety
Speaker 1: from Texas A and M Well, he was a physical player,
Speaker 1: you know, a little tight, but he got around the football.
Speaker 1: You could kind of feel him on tape. His energy.
Speaker 1: As far as Joe Jackson concern, just a big body
Speaker 1: that I've seen Rod bring in guys just off the street. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and when they do his drills, they get better. And
Speaker 1: I saw Joe is that type of guy that he
Speaker 1: would continue to work and would improve within our scheme. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think so too. I mean I like now to me,
Speaker 1: you know, you look at these drafts and then you
Speaker 1: go to the previous draft before that with the Layton vandersh,
Speaker 1: Connor Williams, Michael Gallup. Man, you guys knocked that thing
Speaker 1: out of the park. It was a good draft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that thing just seemed to fall just right for you
Speaker 1: guys though, Didn't it that that draft the way that
Speaker 1: they all worked out, you know, Layton Vanderish at nineteen,
Speaker 1: Connor Williams at fifty, Michael Gallop at eighty one. I
Speaker 1: mean it just seemed like that that the where the
Speaker 1: players were on that board, it worked out great for
Speaker 1: you guys. Yes, and if you remember the two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine draft, I believe, yeah, it just what we
Speaker 1: We love players. And then about two or three picks
Speaker 1: before we were on the clock, that particular player that
Speaker 1: we really coveted, Yeah, it was selected. So I think
Speaker 1: in this process too, you gotta have a little luck. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been with you before when I felt like that,
Speaker 1: I'm like, man, we we got lucky on that one.
Speaker 1: We really did. Or you know, oh man, that that
Speaker 1: was what fortune makes this whole thing so much. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what and and I'll say this about this
Speaker 1: guy before we go to break here and uh we
Speaker 1: this goes all the way back to Quincy Carter and
Speaker 1: talking about that, and Tommy made the school call at Georgia,
Speaker 1: He and Walter Julia and they were adamant about what
Speaker 1: Quincy Carter was, and they were absolutely right about Quincy Carter,
Speaker 1: absolutely right about him. And he was absolutely right about
Speaker 1: a player named Kendrell Bell that was a linebacker from
Speaker 1: Georgia that ended up getting and we had a first
Speaker 1: round grade and didn't take him at the time, you know,
Speaker 1: and there's there's a great example right there. You got
Speaker 1: the guy at the right spot. Go take the right player,
Speaker 1: you know, take that guy and then worry about everything
Speaker 1: else if you got the grade. He was right about
Speaker 1: Kendrell Bell, a guy made AFC Rookie of the Year
Speaker 1: for the Pittsburgh Steers. Took him a pick after we
Speaker 1: took Quincy Carter. So sometimes in that war room, you know,
Speaker 1: you fight, you fight, you fight, and it still doesn't
Speaker 1: work out. Yeah, you know, that's part of it. That
Speaker 1: is part of it. That is part of a lot. Okay,
Speaker 1: when we come back, we're gonna take a little break
Speaker 1: right here. I'm gonna go through some of these guys.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go through I know, we we'd like to
Speaker 1: do everything, not just cowboys really, but I want to
Speaker 1: go through a lot of I've got some great values.
Speaker 1: I got nothing yet from these guys, happy to have.
Speaker 1: And then I want to get into some of these
Speaker 1: positions that we saw last year in the draft and
Speaker 1: see how these guys are doing and kind of get
Speaker 1: these guys thoughts on them. You've got the draft show.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. While a player can look good
Speaker 1: on paper, it's one he's out on the field that
Speaker 1: you really find out what he's made of. That's why
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Speaker 1: dot Com Draft Shows. Welcome back to the Draft Show
Speaker 1: from the s TOBBC Morgan Studios. Brian brought us a
Speaker 1: here with Thom Siskowski, our newest member of the scouting department,
Speaker 1: and then David Hellman just a reminder, this is a show.
Speaker 1: Will we do this for the bye week. When we
Speaker 1: get back in January, that's when we'll get into full
Speaker 1: blown coverage. I've looked at about ten guys already, David,
Speaker 1: good for you, ten guys. Want to see some guys.
Speaker 1: But but we get back in January, the week before
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. Uh, Thomas will be back. You'll be
Speaker 1: back and we'll start getting into some of these players
Speaker 1: looked over earlier this week or maybe it was last
Speaker 1: week and the scouting guys for you watching college tape,
Speaker 1: I was just like, man, take a day off, Nah,
Speaker 1: it'll be okay. This man next to me, he will
Speaker 1: not take a day off once we start, once we
Speaker 1: start grinding. Well yeah, exactly so. But that's excited. So yeah,
Speaker 1: when we get back into that, uh, that will be
Speaker 1: in January. That's one we'll fully start with Twitter on
Speaker 1: the twenty Those good Things tell Me More is another
Speaker 1: good segment. I really really like a class all the classics. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about this last draft again. I'm a
Speaker 1: full We're a full, one stop shop right here, Okay,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna run off some names here, some guys.
Speaker 1: I think that as you look at the draft, some
Speaker 1: great value and you're gonna look at me Dave and
Speaker 1: you go, who oh yeah. I'm gonna start with Ola Bispcie,
Speaker 1: Ola Bibsie Johnson. I was really convinced you weren't going
Speaker 1: to be able to stump me. But that name is
Speaker 1: not ringing any Colorado statewide receiver. The Minnesota Vikings took
Speaker 1: him seventh round, pick two forty seven. He's got thirteen
Speaker 1: catches for one hundred and thirty four yards and one touchdown,
Speaker 1: so he's probably got more. He's done more in john
Speaker 1: seven games than la Quan Treadwill did and exact Minnesota
Speaker 1: Vikings took him. Calrod State. Now Colrod statements be putting
Speaker 1: out some receivers, Tommy, how about this guy? We know
Speaker 1: this guy, Gardner Mitsche. Oh yeah, Jacksonville took him. I
Speaker 1: know that one seventy eight. His stats so far one
Speaker 1: one hundred thirty nine completions out of two hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty six attempts. One of the stories of the NFL
Speaker 1: seasons one thousand and six and ninety seven yards, ten touchdowns,
Speaker 1: two interceptions, doing a great job in Jacksonville. How about
Speaker 1: Darius Slayton, Tommy from Auburn. You remember him? Yes? Remember him, David?
Speaker 1: Don't you loved him? If I remember? I did. He's
Speaker 1: a fifth round choice by the New York Giants, playing
Speaker 1: well for them at pick one, seventy one, fourteen receptions,
Speaker 1: two hundred and seventeen yards, one touchdown. And here's the
Speaker 1: big one, third round picked by the Washington Redskins. Terry McLaren. Yeah,
Speaker 1: scary Terry, scary Terry. Tom You've been to Ohio State
Speaker 1: a bunch. How many Ohio State receivers have you scouted
Speaker 1: in their day? All the way back to Joey Galloway? Right?
Speaker 1: But you know what that that happened sometimes is you
Speaker 1: know the there's two or three or maybe two of
Speaker 1: the other guys that are getting all they the attention
Speaker 1: and the lsity, and there's a guy kind of setting
Speaker 1: back there and you go to you go to the
Speaker 1: pro day, and they go, hey, what's wrong with this guy?
Speaker 1: He can run, he can catch, and then they that's
Speaker 1: good value there where they took him. Kind of remind
Speaker 1: I mean, twenty four catches for four hundred nineteen yards
Speaker 1: five touchdowns. That young man kind of reminds me. I
Speaker 1: mean Tony Pollard, obviously it's a different position. Yeah, Darryl
Speaker 1: Henderson got all the pub at Memphis. Yeah, and obviously
Speaker 1: pot Tony's a pretty good player himself. Michael Thomas was
Speaker 1: that way at Ohio State when he win the same
Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't a guy that everybody was kind
Speaker 1: of jumping up and down about right. He was pretty
Speaker 1: hill he regarded. But I mean you got Devin Smith,
Speaker 1: you got Zeke, you got Bosa. I mean he was
Speaker 1: kind of lost in the belly Marshawn Lattimore. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: kind of got. He fit what Sean wanted to do.
Speaker 1: He absolutely, Yeah, absolutely, McLaren really kicked some butt at
Speaker 1: the senior ball though. I do remember that. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1: He was a very good player. Okay, how about guys,
Speaker 1: how about nothing yet? This is my nothing yet category?
Speaker 1: Is Silia Farrell? Cleland? Cleland say that we went over
Speaker 1: it during the break. I didn't. I didn't finetically do
Speaker 1: that for me. Cleland Farrell, what did I say, ceiling?
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said that. Tell them, Tell
Speaker 1: everybody listening at home where you had him slotted? He
Speaker 1: was number out of my top one hundred, he was
Speaker 1: number fifty. And where was he drafted? He was shrafted
Speaker 1: fourth overall. That that's I mean, I remember it being
Speaker 1: stunning and fer he's not really up to much. I
Speaker 1: haven't watched Clempson, right, Tommy, all those all those defensive
Speaker 1: linemen at Clemson. He's got five tackles with one sack. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be that would be a little disappointed. Right,
Speaker 1: But he's played five games. That's a little less than
Speaker 1: you want from a top five. How about ed Oliver
Speaker 1: at Buffalo ninth overall, six games, seven tackles, one sack.
Speaker 1: Buffalo has got a good defense, right, what did you guys?
Speaker 1: You guys, everybody in that room was really high on
Speaker 1: ed Oliver. What don't he one of those guys? Was he? Yes?
Speaker 1: But it was it was made known that look that
Speaker 1: this guy's not the next coming of that warn't sap No, No,
Speaker 1: not at all, not at all. And I had little
Speaker 1: I liked him. I don't want to say that I didn't,
Speaker 1: but I had a little bit of concern. Was his
Speaker 1: size potential? Yes, you know Aaron Donald is a thick yeah,
Speaker 1: two eighty five ninety This guy if he doesn't take
Speaker 1: care of himself, he could be down to two fifty
Speaker 1: if he's not careful. So he had that body, and
Speaker 1: that was a little bit of a concern. They're playing
Speaker 1: outdoors in Buffalo, They've got to be concerned about that.
Speaker 1: Is it Is it a thing where you can be
Speaker 1: like too freaky, Like he's too freaky of an athlete,
Speaker 1: Like you're talking about a defensive tackle who's got the
Speaker 1: athleticism to like he could maybe play linebacker. Does that
Speaker 1: work against him at all? Some people have talked about,
Speaker 1: like a Pittsburgh or another three four team that they
Speaker 1: pla him as an outside line flush guy, which basically
Speaker 1: he ended up being like Freeney. Yeah, you know, short circus.
Speaker 1: It doesn't give the offensive line'm in a big surface
Speaker 1: to block off the edge. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not
Speaker 1: closing the book on him. I bet he's gonna be
Speaker 1: He's gonna be pretty good. Seven seven tackles, one sack.
Speaker 1: It's okay, Hey, we see him. Tristan Hill's having a
Speaker 1: hard time getting nothing yet we've talked about him. How
Speaker 1: about Rashawn Gary from Michigan. He was a twelfth overall
Speaker 1: picked by the Packers and four tackles one sack. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you this. You can see his athleticism though, like
Speaker 1: there were I mean, he was out there on some
Speaker 1: plays against the Cowboys where you can see him moving.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's translating yet, but guys, scare
Speaker 1: you a little bit. Tommy. The athleticism. He I'd like
Speaker 1: the guy I always said, I said to myself, if
Speaker 1: we were in a three four, I'd really like him
Speaker 1: setting the edge and doing some things. Yeah. If I
Speaker 1: recall Brian, his numbers sacks wise was not overly impressive, right, right,
Speaker 1: and he had like maybe two or three. I thought
Speaker 1: he was a better defensive tackle that you can say that.
Speaker 1: But Danielle Hunter had two sacks. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Well, I mean we're always hard
Speaker 1: on LSU guys. Yeah, yeah, I didn't see. I didn't
Speaker 1: see that one coming. Daniel Hunter did not. He did
Speaker 1: not wow me in college. And yeah, clearly that was
Speaker 1: a mistake. How about this, here's my last one, Chris Lynstrom,
Speaker 1: they guard from Boston College. That was Atlanta took at
Speaker 1: fourteen overall. He's played one game for them this year. Yanks.
Speaker 1: Oh that they took two. They took two alignment in
Speaker 1: the first round, did they not? How's the tackle doing?
Speaker 1: Did you look that up now? I don't think he's
Speaker 1: doing very well either, Tommy, Tommy D with his good
Speaker 1: hairs and a little trouble up there. I think when
Speaker 1: when he was selected, there was there was there was
Speaker 1: a bit of wows and eyes got big and we certainly,
Speaker 1: oh are not having that high without Okay, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think I had him that he was in that
Speaker 1: sixty range as far as my top one off the
Speaker 1: top of your head, or there any other stunners for
Speaker 1: y'all this year where you like everybody just kind of
Speaker 1: looked at each other. I don't recall anyone necessarily. Let
Speaker 1: me think here, Chris Lynstrom was one for me when
Speaker 1: when Tommy took him at fourteen. I'm tom about Thomas
Speaker 1: de Mitrof. Yeah, everybody calls him Thomas except I call
Speaker 1: him Tommy D. Yeah. I guess I haven't answers to it.
Speaker 1: So he slept on my couch for a month one time.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a little trouble there. That's not that
Speaker 1: roster's not as good as I thought it was gonna be.
Speaker 1: I thought Atlanta was a playoff contender. How about happy
Speaker 1: to have Okay, happy to have Josh Allen the Kentucky
Speaker 1: outside linebacker defensive Then Jacksonville took him at seventh overall.
Speaker 1: He's got fourteen tackles in five sacks. It's a classic
Speaker 1: case of, like, you know, maybe having a crappy seasons
Speaker 1: not the end of the world if you have a
Speaker 1: good roster, because the Jags, the Jags are too good
Speaker 1: to have been in position and draft him just in
Speaker 1: terms of the talent on their roster. But seventh overall
Speaker 1: a kid from remember how he's a good looking kid.
Speaker 1: Though good looking kid, long range kind of gets after you.
Speaker 1: Five sacks already five sacks. Yeah, it's seventh overall. How
Speaker 1: about this Brian Burns. That's a guy the understood didn't like.
Speaker 1: I hated Brian did not like him. I sports hated
Speaker 1: Brian Burns. I don't know the man, but Florida State
Speaker 1: is Brian Burns. He looked like he looked like a
Speaker 1: room stick to me. How thin he was. I didn't
Speaker 1: think he could I don't think he could hold up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: way to go, Brian. He gets picked sixteenth overall. I
Speaker 1: thought he was a better version of Manny Lawson. Oh
Speaker 1: did you remember that? Yeah, but they both were narrow
Speaker 1: hip guys. Yeah, but if you if the scheme does
Speaker 1: not allow you to have take on the offensive lineman
Speaker 1: all the all the time and just use your speed
Speaker 1: in space. Yeah, he had a chance. Yeah. Well he
Speaker 1: got four and a half sacks already, letting tackles Carolina.
Speaker 1: Carolina does a good job finding defensive players. Are you
Speaker 1: sure do man I need scout at Carolina? Maybe how
Speaker 1: about this one? At one twenty four, the Oakland Raiders
Speaker 1: take Josh Jacobs, nice player, one hundred and nine carries
Speaker 1: for five hundred and fifty four yards, four touchdown. You're
Speaker 1: doing your scout thing. He was the twenty fourth pick
Speaker 1: in the first round one twenty four. Makes it sound
Speaker 1: like he was the one tall pick. Tommy knew what
Speaker 1: I was talking about. Sitting here, scouts, I've been we
Speaker 1: were seven years right. Here's the thing is, not everybody
Speaker 1: listening is fluent in scout, you know, right, help you
Speaker 1: know there's some people that are listening right now that
Speaker 1: are fluent in scouting. There are, but we're trying to
Speaker 1: appeal to all demos here. We are so thank you
Speaker 1: for listening. Thanks right, pick twenty four, Pick twenty four,
Speaker 1: the first round, first back off you have to work
Speaker 1: with Tommy. Get ready, get ready. This is gonna be
Speaker 1: a whole year for you. Get first back off the board,
Speaker 1: if I remember, right, absolutely, And he's having himself a
Speaker 1: nice little time. Hundred and nine carries for five hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty four yards, four touchdowns. Remember I saw somebody
Speaker 1: talking about this on Twitter today, like everybody was all
Speaker 1: concerned about like, oh, he he didn't play that much
Speaker 1: at Alabama. Yeah, I guess what that means. He's fresh, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the really good Yeah, I'm players. Okay, remember all those
Speaker 1: tight ends Tommy that we had to I just had
Speaker 1: to try to sort out with t. J. Hawkerson, Noah
Speaker 1: Fant and IRB. Smith Junior. I'm bummed out. Isn't no
Speaker 1: offense not doing very well? Well, let me just read
Speaker 1: you the numbers. Okay, Hawkinson went eighth overall better better? Yeah,
Speaker 1: eighteen catches for two hundred nineteen yards, two touchdowns. Noah
Speaker 1: Fan at Denver went there and that at twenty fifteen
Speaker 1: catches for one hundred fifty nine yards one touchdown. All right?
Speaker 1: And IRV Smith with the Minnesota in the second round
Speaker 1: at the number fifty. Twelve catches, one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: three yards, no touchdowns. That's are all pretty even numbers
Speaker 1: right there for all those guys. And it so you're
Speaker 1: telling me maybe that the guy at eight is the
Speaker 1: same as the guy at fifty. I want to say
Speaker 1: Howkinson has had some injuries. I know he like he
Speaker 1: can cuss himself against the Chiefs and I had to
Speaker 1: leave that game. So still eighteen catches. I thought he
Speaker 1: was gonna catch. Didn't you think? How did you how
Speaker 1: did you feel about how did you have those guys?
Speaker 1: Did you? Well? Hawkinson was a guy you could see
Speaker 1: the blocking was that the head coach came from New England. Well,
Speaker 1: we can playhim at tight end, we can play him
Speaker 1: at fullback, we can play him at h wee can.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of things. So I think that
Speaker 1: once they settle in what his role is, I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna have a nice career. Yes, he's he he
Speaker 1: can block and he can catch. You should have had
Speaker 1: three touchdowns. I was watching the game there. They dropped
Speaker 1: one in the flat, would have walked into sport. He
Speaker 1: dropped it. Oh, can't have that nope, but no Ah Fan.
Speaker 1: He was another that those Iowa tight ends were pretty impressed.
Speaker 1: That Tape was impressed to watch those two if I like,
Speaker 1: if you could go back, obviously everybody would rather have
Speaker 1: Amari Cooper than pick twenty seven. But if the Cowboys
Speaker 1: had had a pick in the first round, fant is
Speaker 1: right up at the top of who I would have
Speaker 1: wanted him to draft. So I hope that pans out
Speaker 1: for the Broncos because he was definitely a pet cat
Speaker 1: to the point where once he I don't remember his
Speaker 1: numbers at the combine, but once he put up his
Speaker 1: combine workouts, I was like, well, this is that. There's
Speaker 1: no chance he's a freak his issues. He's basically right
Speaker 1: now a big receiver. Yeah, he needs to get stronger, yeah,
Speaker 1: but as far as just pure athletic, a billion speed,
Speaker 1: if he puts it all together, I think he could
Speaker 1: have a nice career at that twenty seventh pick. If
Speaker 1: you had that twenty seventh pick, who would you have taken?
Speaker 1: Do you remember who you who? On that board you had?
Speaker 1: Was that Abraham went to the Abraham Abram my second
Speaker 1: who was available there? I'll tell you, I'll tell you Tom,
Speaker 1: I tell you right there, yeah, because that was that
Speaker 1: was after that was Abraham Jonathan Abram went at twenty seven.
Speaker 1: Montez Sweat went a pick before l J. Collier, who
Speaker 1: I know y'all liked win at twenty nine. DeAndre Baker,
Speaker 1: DeAndre Baker, the Georgia Corner Byron Murphy, Deebo Samuel my
Speaker 1: pet cat. Yeah, that was Dave's pet cat. Is there
Speaker 1: somebody you liked? Would you've taken? What did the staff
Speaker 1: think about? What the staff that you guys brought, you
Speaker 1: brought Abram in? Didn't everybody like him? They did, He's
Speaker 1: got a little brashes into consideration. Yes, I think so.
Speaker 1: But just uh, I can tell about your action. You're
Speaker 1: not too happy about this, No, I just uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of the other players and trying
Speaker 1: to tide all together. But I was usually when you
Speaker 1: when you don't have a pick and it's your turn,
Speaker 1: you kind of see who's on the board. I mean,
Speaker 1: you couldn't have you couldn't have made a better trade
Speaker 1: than the one you made. No way, No, there's no way,
Speaker 1: there's there was in twenty seven players that were better
Speaker 1: than that that guy you took but if I'm if
Speaker 1: if we're sitting there at a twenty seven we had
Speaker 1: that pick and we're sitting there scratching our head. Normally
Speaker 1: one guy's surfaces that everyone just jumps up and or
Speaker 1: the majority in the room jump up and say, we
Speaker 1: gotta take this guy. But no one does that with
Speaker 1: one of the five. That's when you hope the phone
Speaker 1: rings so that you can get out of the back
Speaker 1: up maybe ten spots, pick up a third or a
Speaker 1: bottom of the second, and then you're hoping one of
Speaker 1: those five would be there with that pick. So what
Speaker 1: happened with Travis Frederick or did you guys get stuck
Speaker 1: on that? No? I mean, well, I don't know if
Speaker 1: we were really truly targeting him. Again, Dave, what you
Speaker 1: said earlier, the guy just was there. Yeah, but you guys,
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys blew the hatches and went to
Speaker 1: the bottom of the oceans, yes, to get that to
Speaker 1: get that thing, and we had it. That's about we
Speaker 1: took him at thirty one, I believe. Yeah, And uh,
Speaker 1: that's there were a couple of the bottom of the
Speaker 1: first round grades and second round grades. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: the territory. Everybody had him in the third round grade,
Speaker 1: but the team that drafted him. Yeah, that just shows
Speaker 1: you right there. So that's why these are all different.
Speaker 1: How about all these wide receivers in this draft. Here's
Speaker 1: a name I could pronounce, Dave AJ Brown. There you go.
Speaker 1: Tennessee took two fifty one, second round, fifty first pick.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, you're getting better. I look this up. Some
Speaker 1: of these guys are are doing all right for themselves,
Speaker 1: Like Hollywood Brown isn't He's not lighting the world on fire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but he's part of that Baltimore offense. A J. Brown's
Speaker 1: playing well. Deebo has been hurt unfortunately. I I picked
Speaker 1: out then. Uh, Michael Hardman, the Georgia kid, Micole. I
Speaker 1: believe Icole. It's okay, it's not your Nicole, but Nicole Hardman.
Speaker 1: Micole Hardman, I think I saw a name written on
Speaker 1: your card. I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about the big
Speaker 1: stiff guy in Seattle, DK met Keff. Yeah, what about
Speaker 1: the big stiff guy. He's kind of proven some people
Speaker 1: wrong and twenty catches for three hundred and eighty nine
Speaker 1: yards two touchdowns. What about him, Tommy, he was so stiff,
Speaker 1: wasn't he? But he was stiff and wasn't a blazer.
Speaker 1: But he's one of these guys that when he came
Speaker 1: out of the route, he was so big he was
Speaker 1: open even when he was covered. Yeah, And when you
Speaker 1: see a guy like that, you want to ask yourself,
Speaker 1: can he make the play the contested catch? Yeah, when
Speaker 1: the guys are hanging all over him, and who cares
Speaker 1: how prudy it is. If he's moving the chains, that's
Speaker 1: what you want. Yeah, so you liked you sound like
Speaker 1: you liked the guy. I liked him a little bit.
Speaker 1: He's averaging twenty yards per catch. And if that's if
Speaker 1: that's the scouting report. If you need a guy that
Speaker 1: can throw him open or get it to him even
Speaker 1: when he's not wide open, Russell Wilson's your guys. Russell
Speaker 1: Wilson's that guy all right. Now, how about the last
Speaker 1: group I saved here? The quarterbacks ranked these guys for me,
Speaker 1: Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, and Dwayne Haskins. Well, I haven't
Speaker 1: seen enough of Haskins to have an dependent Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: only been in one game. He was nine of seventeen,
Speaker 1: four hundred and seven yards, three interceptions. Actually, a really
Speaker 1: terrible situation. That's really fitting timing because you know, the
Speaker 1: Cowboys played at night the other day, so I was
Speaker 1: sitting around in my apartment with nothing else to do,
Speaker 1: and the Cardinals were playing the Giants. Yeah, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: impressed by Kyler Murray. Not that I'm surprised. I mean,
Speaker 1: he went number one overall, but they've won three games
Speaker 1: in a row out there. Yeah, they're I think they're three,
Speaker 1: three and one. Watch this I'm about to get here's
Speaker 1: the guy. It's an old school scout sitting next to me,
Speaker 1: and he's gonna tell me about this guy that's five
Speaker 1: nine and a half and there's no way he should
Speaker 1: have gone one overall? Am I right about that? I
Speaker 1: wasn't totally shocked, But yet the game has changed with
Speaker 1: this zone. Great stuff, And I think that if you
Speaker 1: and they basically cut the wrist and said we're gonna
Speaker 1: hire Kingsbury and we're gonna put this in and we're
Speaker 1: gonna you have to either commit to it or not.
Speaker 1: And they have and well, we played them in preseason.
Speaker 1: If you're remember he stood in the pocket and we
Speaker 1: got a couple of balls. Not but if you remember
Speaker 1: the play action passed off the zone read. I used
Speaker 1: to call it the dash series with Eisman. Sure it
Speaker 1: was almost like a semi roll. Well, now they're they're
Speaker 1: gap protecting and the windows are open for him now
Speaker 1: to see down the field to make the throw. So
Speaker 1: he's gonna have to They're gonna have to create stuff
Speaker 1: to move him around in the pocket to ulize his feet.
Speaker 1: But his arm strength is good and his accuracy is
Speaker 1: very good. Yeah, that's pretty bad when you watch that tape.
Speaker 1: That was pretty wild tape, wasn't it. Hell Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I enjoyed watching. And now, I mean, you know, that's
Speaker 1: just with again, with the way the game's changed, that's
Speaker 1: just smart football. Da Dak doesn't need that from a
Speaker 1: hype perspective, but I think they could do more of
Speaker 1: that with Dak. Move the pocket. He's so good throwing
Speaker 1: on the move left. I've never seen a guy throw
Speaker 1: to the left as well as he does. They don't,
Speaker 1: They don't design enough stuff for him to take advantage
Speaker 1: of that. In my opinion, where the game has changed
Speaker 1: is defenses. Now they have to account for him as
Speaker 1: a runner. Right if things break down, he runs and
Speaker 1: everyone could be covered in the secondary, and then he
Speaker 1: takes off and runs for fifteen yards and moves the chains.
Speaker 1: So it's a different it's a different approach if you're
Speaker 1: playing a last year and Eli Manning or playing Kyler
Speaker 1: Murray this year. Yeah, how about Daniel Jones from Duke
Speaker 1: I'm not I applaud I applauded Dave, Dave Gettleman. You're
Speaker 1: just I'm in trouble. Yeah, I know him. He's a
Speaker 1: buddy of mine, Dave get him. I applaud them for
Speaker 1: playing him, for go ahead and making this journey with
Speaker 1: Daniel Jones. I mean, what other choice do you have.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't play that guy. I mean, I mean I
Speaker 1: wouldn't play Eli Manning. Why not just go ahead and
Speaker 1: play Daniel Jones. They did the right thing, which I mean,
Speaker 1: and Daniel Jones might turn out to be a stud.
Speaker 1: He's had moments. I know he's he's played well more
Speaker 1: often than he's played poorly since they put him in.
Speaker 1: But like, if you're in this position now, why didn't
Speaker 1: you just draft a quarterback last year instead of trying
Speaker 1: to do this sa Quan thing? I don't know, Man,
Speaker 1: I like Saquon Barkley for this guy. I think sae
Speaker 1: Quon Barkley helps this guy. He does, but like, don't
Speaker 1: you need to start that start that clock over? I mean, now,
Speaker 1: say Quan's already another year into his deal. G Okay,
Speaker 1: with what they did with the Giants drafted in the back,
Speaker 1: I was when I see people pass on quarterbacks, we
Speaker 1: can't get in their heads. We don't know what they're thinking.
Speaker 1: They might not have thought that there was a player
Speaker 1: where they were selecting that deserved to be taken that high. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know Daniel Jones, if he's at maybe Ohio
Speaker 1: State or an Oklahoma, people might be doing it on
Speaker 1: the guy's a good athlete. Yeah, he definitely is that.
Speaker 1: And what I liked about him, I didn't think that
Speaker 1: he had elite arm strength, but I thought his timing
Speaker 1: and anticipation was very very good, very good. Okay, when
Speaker 1: we come back, thanks for everybody's thoughts on that. We
Speaker 1: just kind of took a look back. When we come
Speaker 1: back here in the SBbc Mortgagees with the Draft Show,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a look at this football team
Speaker 1: and what direction do we think they need to go
Speaker 1: get draft help. When we get going on this in January,
Speaker 1: we'll be right back your new apartment's big. Such a
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Speaker 1: dot Com Draft Show. We're back here at the SWBC
Speaker 1: Mortgage Studios. Brian brought us toom Siskowski, David Hellman. Uh
Speaker 1: again just kind of this is our annual uh bye
Speaker 1: week uh draft show which we kind of take a
Speaker 1: look back, which we had the last couple of times.
Speaker 1: Now I want to take a little bit of a
Speaker 1: look forward as we've watched these games, gentlemen. Uh, you
Speaker 1: know through now the seven games that we've seen, we're
Speaker 1: starting you get are you getting an idea, David, of
Speaker 1: a position, an area something you might need to focus
Speaker 1: on come draft time that that you're saying, well, they
Speaker 1: need to do a little bit better here, or a
Speaker 1: little bit better or hey they're okay, there is there
Speaker 1: is there an area you're kind of looking at that
Speaker 1: you kind of feel that way. Yeah. I thought about it,
Speaker 1: you know, knowing we were going to do this show,
Speaker 1: and I came to the I don't know you could
Speaker 1: call it concerning or puzzling conclusion that it's a lot
Speaker 1: of the same needs is last year. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: this team could still stand to upgrade it's safety talent.
Speaker 1: Defensive tackle is still probably an issue. Even if Tristan
Speaker 1: Hill comes into his own like we want him to.
Speaker 1: MALIEK Collins is in a contract year, Tyrone Crawford unfortunately
Speaker 1: is dealing with a pretty serious injury. Christian Covington is
Speaker 1: more of a bridge player. Antoine Woods is an under
Speaker 1: contract right now. So that's all stuff you gotta worry about.
Speaker 1: Tight End, Jason Witten's playing very well, but again, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're thinking four or five years in the future,
Speaker 1: how long can you count on that? And then you know,
Speaker 1: offensive tackle, yeah, it's a little it's a little less
Speaker 1: because Lyle Collins is under contract now and he has
Speaker 1: looked fantastic. But you have to think about your left
Speaker 1: tack one law. I mean in the sense that how
Speaker 1: long can Tyron Smith continue to take this kind of
Speaker 1: beating and still play at a high level. Absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's something you need to think about. I mean that
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean it's got to be your first round pick,
Speaker 1: but it's probably time, if it wasn't already, to at
Speaker 1: least sort of have that in the back of your
Speaker 1: mind that you know, how long can even the toughest
Speaker 1: guy in the world continue to accumulate injuries? As you
Speaker 1: went through those, give me the priority of the number
Speaker 1: like the probably one, two or three right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: for me, it's safety and has been for two or
Speaker 1: three years. Okay, they just haven't had a genuine bona
Speaker 1: fide consistent More about Woods or is it more about Heath.
Speaker 1: I think it's more about Heath, but Xavier Woods is
Speaker 1: he's been He's been nice, But just in general, you
Speaker 1: haven't had that playmaking talent at that position. I guess
Speaker 1: I would. I mean Heath specifically, though, yeah, Tom me Well,
Speaker 1: from my perspective, I always looked at it who can
Speaker 1: dominate a game? Who can who can affect the game?
Speaker 1: I'll use that. And obviously your left tackle is critical.
Speaker 1: You got to protect your quarterback. But a position people
Speaker 1: will play four whiteouts. You get a couple of guys hurt,
Speaker 1: and they'll just sit there and just pick you apart.
Speaker 1: I would like to see us draft a bona fide corner.
Speaker 1: That's a really good, sneaky answer, because you of those guys,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're covering people, the offensive lineman can
Speaker 1: only protect so long and then it's going to break
Speaker 1: down to Marcus Lawrence. We got other guys that and
Speaker 1: the way Rod coaches them that they're they're gonna bring
Speaker 1: the heat. But if you are letting guys run free,
Speaker 1: I don't you know, that there are times I'll see
Speaker 1: Brady releases the ball so quickly that you the offensive
Speaker 1: lineman just basically just mirrors the guy for a second
Speaker 1: and the balls out. But so I think a bona
Speaker 1: fide corner that could just you know, shut a guy down,
Speaker 1: that could play the inside and the nickel play outside
Speaker 1: has length with what Chris Rashard wants. I don't think
Speaker 1: that you can ever have in today's football enough corners,
Speaker 1: not just corners, but corners that can cover. Yeah, okay, Tommy,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this though, and we have this
Speaker 1: discussion on our show. I know, I'm talking Cowboys. We
Speaker 1: did this morning. You guys drafted Jordan Lewis before Chris
Speaker 1: Rashard got here. Yes, okay, what did you see in
Speaker 1: Jordan Lewis that made you guys hit pick him in
Speaker 1: Because if he wouldn't have had, I think his legal issues,
Speaker 1: I think I think he would have gone higher than
Speaker 1: the third round myself. That yes, okay, okay, what did
Speaker 1: you see in Jordan Lewis? And then now and then
Speaker 1: walk me through why do we not see him playing more? Well,
Speaker 1: that's obviously the coaches see it. A lot of it
Speaker 1: is philosophy I know Chris is always like bigger guys.
Speaker 1: But what I remember about Jordan, he always got his
Speaker 1: hands on a lot of balls. Yeah, you could, you
Speaker 1: could just you could fill his energy. Yeah, if he
Speaker 1: didn't get the interception, he stripped, he'll tackle. The only
Speaker 1: thing I'm missing with this guy is he's not six two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's He's got the rest of it. So if we
Speaker 1: could find a six to Jordan Lewis, we've got a
Speaker 1: great football. See that's what that's That's why I don't
Speaker 1: you know, And I'm okay, Anthony Brown, I understand. But
Speaker 1: what Tommy described as the type of corner I want.
Speaker 1: I want somebody's out there that's competitive and tough and
Speaker 1: it you know, and and it means something to him.
Speaker 1: And say, I mean you watch him play, he get
Speaker 1: when he gets beat, he comes back. He's he's stronger mentally.
Speaker 1: He's a strong guy mentally. Absolutely. But that's interesting, though,
Speaker 1: you said about the cornerback spot, because I think that's
Speaker 1: that's true. We actually had a really interesting talk on
Speaker 1: the break today about you know, I was saying I
Speaker 1: would love for the front office to get these deals
Speaker 1: done with Dak and Amari so that they can franchise
Speaker 1: Byron Jones because you don't want him going anywhere in
Speaker 1: the short term, because to Tom's point, you need talented
Speaker 1: cover corners. You need guys that can do that. At
Speaker 1: the same time, you don't know what the future holds
Speaker 1: for Byron. Somehow, Jordan and Cheetah are already closer to
Speaker 1: the end of their deals than the beginning. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: about to. I mean they're halfway through their third season,
Speaker 1: so you can't count on them being here in long term.
Speaker 1: Anthony Brown's a free agent in the spring. I would
Speaker 1: like to franchise Byron and have him as a placeholder.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, like I wouldn't be shocked at all
Speaker 1: if the Cowboys spend a premium pick on a corner
Speaker 1: next year, first, second, or third round. You're thinking about
Speaker 1: defensive tackle like Davis or tied in for sure? Are
Speaker 1: you thinking about any of those other positions? I think
Speaker 1: you never. You're still rooting for Hill to be that guy. Sure,
Speaker 1: but just the way we coach them and we run
Speaker 1: them in waves, and I think, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's his, it would be as critical as I see
Speaker 1: maybe the corner position or hoping that Tyrn is Okay, right,
Speaker 1: you've got to protect your quarterback. There's teams out there
Speaker 1: that the Indiana appas Colds as an example, they kind
Speaker 1: of piggybacked off what we did. Sure, and they fix
Speaker 1: their offensive line. Unfortunately it was about two years too late. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Luck was already beat up and chose to retire.
Speaker 1: But I just I think that offensive line is critical,
Speaker 1: and you've got to find guys that can that can
Speaker 1: cover people. And I don't think you ever pass up
Speaker 1: a guy who can affect the quarterback as a pass rusher.
Speaker 1: Sure ever, Yeah, and I think, well that's and you know,
Speaker 1: somebody mentioned talking about the franchise tag. I didn't even
Speaker 1: think about it, but sounding I mean, you got to
Speaker 1: figure out something to do with Robert Quinn because he's,
Speaker 1: you know, hell of a football player who's not under
Speaker 1: contract next year, so something to consider. I don't know
Speaker 1: that I would want to franchise a thirty something year
Speaker 1: old difference Robert after we finish eight games. Compare the
Speaker 1: first eight to the to the last eight. That's fair
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of times you'll see guys
Speaker 1: you think he's gonna get war down Tommy. I don't
Speaker 1: know that, but I just know that. You remember how
Speaker 1: we used to do the quarterly report. Yeah, absolutely, See,
Speaker 1: a player played really good the first quarter. Ye, by
Speaker 1: the third and fourth quarter you realize, all right, he's
Speaker 1: really played the first quarter, which is the first four games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: basically off of experience and savvy. But his arrows going down,
Speaker 1: he's descending. Yeah, as a player, you gotta be real careful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's no, that's a really good point. And people have
Speaker 1: pointed out in the past. You know when DeMarcus hit
Speaker 1: fifteen sacks a couple of years ago. I mean, the
Speaker 1: vast majority of that production came in the first seven
Speaker 1: eight games of the season. Still still gooda a lot
Speaker 1: of double teams and stuff, they both are, which to
Speaker 1: go back to the point, you'd love to have some
Speaker 1: help on the interior with that kind of command attention
Speaker 1: of its own. Okay, Tommy, this is gonna sound I
Speaker 1: mean I spoth to you guys here in the last
Speaker 1: five minutes. So how difficult, though will it be? If
Speaker 1: in fact, though that Jason Garrett, maybe he doesn't get
Speaker 1: extend did and then now you have to really start
Speaker 1: all over again. I mean you've worked through, but I
Speaker 1: mean he's been here for ten years. Now, how does
Speaker 1: that affect a scout and how does it affect a
Speaker 1: scout on the road right now, that might be thinking, okay,
Speaker 1: if we don't win enough games, or am I doing?
Speaker 1: Am I scouting this guy with the thought of okay,
Speaker 1: yeah he's going to be there? Or am I scouting
Speaker 1: this guy? Well? Now we might not like this guy?
Speaker 1: You know, how does how do you deal with that
Speaker 1: on the road and how would you do with that
Speaker 1: as a director like you were, well as a scout.
Speaker 1: Jason Garrett, the head coach, Now you you grade the
Speaker 1: player how you think he fits in the scheme. Now,
Speaker 1: if there is a coaching change and you have a
Speaker 1: new head coach and there's a different philosophy, we would
Speaker 1: always call in the coaches and they would basically clinic
Speaker 1: us scouts and say, this is what I'm looking for
Speaker 1: in a tight end to guard a center, a three technique,
Speaker 1: a safety, you know, number one safety, the down guy.
Speaker 1: He's got to be able, a great tackler. We wanting
Speaker 1: basically an extension of the linebackers using terms like that. Right, So,
Speaker 1: but you don't touch your grades now and then once
Speaker 1: if there is a change and a philosophy of different
Speaker 1: philosophies in place. Then you go back after the spring
Speaker 1: workouts and you tweak your grades accordingly to fit the scheme. Okay,
Speaker 1: so which I mean, and I've never scouted, but that
Speaker 1: sounds like what I would expect is like, right now,
Speaker 1: just go find good football players, right, and so you
Speaker 1: can't worry about the coach in his situation right now,
Speaker 1: you just got to go out there and evaluate Alabama
Speaker 1: football player. And then, which we always joke on this show,
Speaker 1: like right around mid to late March, the narratives kind
Speaker 1: of start changing when the coaches get involved. Anyway, right,
Speaker 1: the coaches finally sit down and start looking at guys
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, no, no no, no, we don't want
Speaker 1: this guy. We want this guy. It happens every year,
Speaker 1: and so maybe it's Jason Garrett and his staff, or
Speaker 1: maybe it's another one, but I'm sure it'll be the
Speaker 1: same way. We'll shoot, we're talking about Jordan Lewis. Maybe
Speaker 1: in the spring, George Lewis could be the prized pet
Speaker 1: cat of whoever's coaching him. See. I was always in
Speaker 1: house doing pro personnel stuff, so my my thing's never changed.
Speaker 1: But I always wondered to be with a college scouting
Speaker 1: when we when you make a coaching change, yeah, you
Speaker 1: know when you make that coaching change, and you know
Speaker 1: it is it? How different is I mean, what's the mindset?
Speaker 1: Mean Tommy goes on the road two hundred days a
Speaker 1: year and you're just thinking, okay, man, the team's not
Speaker 1: winning enough games. We might be switching coaches. Am I
Speaker 1: scouting the right guys? You know? I mean you have
Speaker 1: to kind of put that in the back of your
Speaker 1: mind and say, oh, I just got to keep finding players.
Speaker 1: That's all I have to do. What you have to do, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which you think about it. How many guys get drafted
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty six? Yeah, and the full pool,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's it's more than a thousand,
Speaker 1: but like the realistic choices you're probably talking about like
Speaker 1: five hundred guys. Yeah. So you're gonna do all the
Speaker 1: same scouting and find all the same players, and then
Speaker 1: maybe your focus shifts depending on who the coaches are,
Speaker 1: but it's still the same talent pool. You still got
Speaker 1: to go identify the guys. Yeah. But sometimes remember with
Speaker 1: ourselves when he came in, I mean we went from
Speaker 1: a four three team to a three to four team,
Speaker 1: and yeah, but he gave his time to you know,
Speaker 1: he you know, Mike Zimmer had to call a four three,
Speaker 1: kept calling for three and then he switched it to
Speaker 1: a three to four and we didn't have the personnel
Speaker 1: to do it. And you worry about that of getting
Speaker 1: getting a good start for your team, you know, if
Speaker 1: you have to change over a bunch of personnel, you know,
Speaker 1: you want to give yourself the best chance to have success.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's you know, if you if you can't
Speaker 1: flip it fast enough that you he kind of hurt
Speaker 1: yourself that way. I think fortunately for the Cowboys, there's
Speaker 1: enough cornerstone pieces here that are kind of scheme independent, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking offense more than anything, but defense too,
Speaker 1: I wanted to add I hadn't thought about that a ton. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wonder if you know, because to me, I think
Speaker 1: the more of the changes we've talked about what we said, corner, safety,
Speaker 1: defensive tackle, I mean, we're thinking about pieces of the defense.
Speaker 1: But with with the money you've committed to some of
Speaker 1: these guys, yeah, that's probably going to dictate what you do,
Speaker 1: right right. I don't know if it's a good idea
Speaker 1: to try to turn into Marcus Lawrence into a three
Speaker 1: four linebacker or you know, something like that. So I
Speaker 1: think it'll I think it'll sort itself out. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's a huge concern. Yeah. I like what you
Speaker 1: guys are talking about with the needs though that. I
Speaker 1: like the cornerback need though too. It's a sneaky one.
Speaker 1: It is a very sneak say this. The value of
Speaker 1: Jordan and Anthony Brown is this. I always said, Brian,
Speaker 1: I've told you this before. I see a corner as
Speaker 1: a starter. Yeah, teams started to run the ball in
Speaker 1: first down. At second and eight, you're in nickel. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what the numbers were last year, but two
Speaker 1: years ago in seventeen, we were in nickel sixty three
Speaker 1: percent of the time. YEP, So I counted that. So
Speaker 1: if you see a real shifty, quick slot guy, well
Speaker 1: then you want to insert Jordan Lewis in the game.
Speaker 1: But if it's a taller guy that tries to win
Speaker 1: more with his length, now Jordan's going to compete. But
Speaker 1: maybe Anthony Brown's a guy. So I think it gives
Speaker 1: you two options flexibility, flexibility because people will put different
Speaker 1: types of players in the slot to try to exploit
Speaker 1: your team. Absolutely. Thank you for coming along in this journey,
Speaker 1: my friend. It's been fun. We'll look forward to having
Speaker 1: you here in January day. Thank you for everything too.
Speaker 1: That is all the time. There's trust me. I'll be
Speaker 1: here before you know it, right. Yeah, again, thanks everybody.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Tom Siskowski for our newest member of our
Speaker 1: skying department. Enjoyed it. David Hellman, I want to thank
Speaker 1: Kayden Gates and also William Boykins for what they've done.
Speaker 1: Also has always wanted to thank ed Kayhill Kate Garrison
Speaker 1: for what the contributions they made to the show for
Speaker 1: so many years. We appreciate you guys as well. We'll
Speaker 1: be back here in January, the week before the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: Promise you we will get into a lot of players
Speaker 1: and we will find a way to it once again
Speaker 1: investigate and educate you as fans of the NFL Draft.
Speaker 1: For again, from my guys Toom Skowski, David Hilman, I'm
Speaker 1: Brian Bross. Take care. We'll see in January. This has
Speaker 1: been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys Football Club.