WEBVTT - Why Trump Is Growing More Powerful After Tragedy | A Conversation with Aaron Parnas 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.440 It is September seventeenth. I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning, 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.080 and I am thrilled today to be joined by Aaron 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:11.080 Parness of the Parness perspective. I think that one of 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:15.200 the things we can all appreciate in this moment is 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:23.000 that as this fascist curtain is descending on America, that 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:30.520 correspondingly is the destruction of the media that for fifty 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:38.200 years time the American people respected, the American people trusted, 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:46.080 and the American media appreciated that when it celebrated itself, 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:52.919 that it delivered the goods. The newsrooms were filled supposedly 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:58.160 with people who would not bend, would not bow, would 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:03.600 not capitulate. During my career, I've run at the highest 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:08.399 levels a couple presidential campaigns. I've been in every newsroom 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:13.759 you can think of. I've argued, cajoled, and debated with 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.480 every editor at every news organization. The truth of the 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.440 matter is I had a lot of respect for those 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:24.920 people until I didn't, And on any given day it's 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:29.680 hard for me to contain my contempt for their cowardice 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:34.760 and their capitulance. And I think it's really important to 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:40.240 appreciate the exchange yesterday that took place between Donald Trump 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:45.080 and Jonathan carl of ABC News when Donald Trump looks 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.440 at him dead in the eye and he says, well, 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:51.280 your network engaged in hate speech against me, and they 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.280 paid me tens of millions of dollars. And anybody who 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.120 thinks that Donald Trump doesn't hold the high ground in 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:03.080 that debate, that Donald Trump isn't scoring points in that 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:09.480 should pull their head out of their ass. These networks 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:14.360 made corrupt bargains with the devil, and the result of 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.040 it is the American people in a time of crisis, 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.520 can't tell what's real, can't tell what's not, can't tell 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.600 what's up, can't tell what's down, can't tell what's left 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.720 from right and right from left because of the failure 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:34.880 of corporate media. But the First Amendment did not create 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:44.400 NBC News Right and NBC News and it's collapse as 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:49.840 a vessel of integrity or CBS or ABC does not 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:55.000 eradicate the First Amendment. What the First Amendment creates is 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:59.480 the ability for people in this country to say what 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.920 they will, to believe what they want, and for the 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.160 press to report what's happening. And so one of the 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.760 people that does that and does it better than anybody 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.640 else out there. A one man news network who you 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.520 can trust, you can believe in, is Aaron Parnis. Is 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.760 somebody that I watch, that I pay attention to. He 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:29.760 is a go to news source and you can trust him. Aaron, welcome, 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.359 Thanks you for having me. Super excited to be here 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.520 and listen. I agree with a lot of what you said. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.600 I really think that the news media, the industry as 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.200 we know it, is really not just dying but really changing. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:42.920 I think that the First Amendment is under attack in 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.440 ways we've never seen before. And I mean the truth 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:47.520 is so important in this day and agent. Right now, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:49.480 I don't know who to trust either in a lot 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.480 of ways. So it's a very scary time. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.360 There's a lot of stuff to talk about. How do 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:04.920 you sort through what's happening in say this is one 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.760 two three four today? 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:09.920 Yeah, I mean I think so, I mean it's not 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:12.160 even one two three four. I end up posting many 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.840 are from twenty to thirty times a day most days. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.240 It really is a lot. I think for me, where 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.719 I go directly, as I go directly to the primary source. 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.360 In this day and age, there's so much information out 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.760 there that when media reports on say something that Donald 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.440 Trump says, it's often skewed in certain ways, whether it's 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.279 the right to the left. I mean, there's so much 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.520 bias out there, And so I go directly to the source. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.560 I go directly to the person who makes the statement, 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.440 the bill that's introduced, and that's where I go to 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.599 get all my information to then figure out, Okay, well 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.400 let's see how we can report this to make sure 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.080 it's factual, accurate. And and folks know because right now, 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.920 what I've seen, at least is that the so called mainstream, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.240 the Times, the Posts, all these great organizations that people 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.000 rely on for many years, well they're scared. They're scared 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.880 in the reporting right. The way they frame stories isn't 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:07.160 fully accurate anymore. Even if the details are there, the 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.080 framing isn't isn't isn't right. And so I go directly 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:11.680 to the source. Every single time. 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:17.120 I'm watching CNN last week and John Berman, the anchor, 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:23.279 is on a with a Democratic congressman. And the congressman 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.240 I don't recall his name, but he was a former prosecutor. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.000 He's very measured. Do you know his name? 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.640 Dateman from California's forty seventh. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:38.920 Okay, And I don't think the congressman was necessarily there 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:45.520 to talk about the Epstein case. I think he got 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.080 lassoed and dragged across the street. But what John Berman says, right, 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:56.560 it's incredible. He goes, well, there's no reason to be 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:05.680 suspicious that that Donald Trump did anything untoured with with 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.120 Jeffrey Epstein. And you know, if i'm if, I'm if 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.840 I'm sitting there right and you say, well, there's no 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.240 reason right to say that Donald Trump has been implicated 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.159 criminally in this, right. I mean, that's a true statement, 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.239 you know, so far as I know. But any reason 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.520 that he should be suspicious, you know, for example, the 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.920 birthday card that he denies. Right there there you go. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.080 But like when you see something like that, and you 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.799 you see like the terror in a in a John 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.760 Berman's eyes going out of his way to try to 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:45.080 explicate Donald Donald Trump. Yeah, well, well how do you 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:45.880 process that? 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.240 It's concerning. So I was an attorney before I even 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.599 did this work. And as an attorney, whether you're on 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.560 whether you're on the defense side or the plaintiff's prosecution spense, 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.400 doesn't really matter. You're always taught never to start at 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.880 the conclusion and then work your way back. You're taught 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.200 to start with the evidence and go piece by piece 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.080 and work your way to a conclusion. When prosecutors are 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.680 investigating in crime, they're not supposed to start with a 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.360 suspect and then try to piece evidence in to make 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.920 that suspect guilty. It's wherever the evidence leads them. And 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:19.920 what the media is doing right now is what they 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:22.400 shouldn't be is what lawyers shouldn't do, when what media 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.520 shouldn't do is they're starting with this theory Donald Trump 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.880 is not implicated, and they're kind of forcing everything into 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.640 that theory. Why because they're scared of what Trump's response 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.560 is to them. What they should be doing is saying, well, listen, 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:38.280 you're right, Donald Trump is not implicated criminally, he never has, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.520 but he may never will be. But there is a 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.360 lot of evidence to suggest that he is somewhat connected 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.320 to Epstein. Right, he has the birthday book letter. Potentially 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.360 he has his name in the files. Bloomberg's reported that 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.560 the FBI has been instructed to redact his name from 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:54.840 a number of files. He was at Marra a Lago 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.360 with Epstein. He himself acknowledges a personal relationship with Epstein. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.600 There is smoke, we should be asking questions to see 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.520 whether that smoke leads to fire. We shouldn't just put 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.400 out that fire because we may be scared of what 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:08.440 the President is going to do. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:14.760 Now. So that builds to what cash Battel says yesterday, 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.920 And what cash Battel says yesterday is that there's no 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:24.840 evidence whatsoever did Jeffrey Epstein trafficked any of these young 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.800 girls to other men. And we know that's not true, right. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.280 I mean, for based on what the survivors have said, 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.520 that's not true. Right. The survivors themselves have said that 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.040 there is more than just Jeffrey Epstein involved in this, 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.200 and so we know that not to be true. But 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.920 I mean, ultimately it's a bit of a confusing situation. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.680 And that did Jeffrey Epstein himself traffic women to other 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.200 high net worth powerful individuals? I don't know, did other 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.880 high net worth powerful individuals conceal what Epstein was doing? No, 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:03.000 what Epstein was doing worked in this kind of scheme, yes, 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:07.880 And so the wording that they're using is so it's 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.400 so I mean legal ease in a way, like they 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.480 know what they're they're doing to try to like weasel 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.480 them their way out of it. That's what Cash Footel 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:14.720 is doing. 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:23.840 In my opinion, Why is Cash fatal trying to expocate 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:32.680 Jeffrey Epstein from trafficking these girls to other women? 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.560 I don't know, I don't know. I mean, truthfully, here's 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.880 the thing, Like, at this point, Epstein is not on trial, 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:42.400 right like, he's not he's he's dead. There's no prejudice 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.760 in Pash Fatel just coming out and saying the truth 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.480 here And ultimately that's why I think that the files 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.240 just need to be released at this point. Let the 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.320 public decide what Jeffrey Epstein did or didn't do. And 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.480 if you're worried. And here's the thing, it's actually funny. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.760 One of the biggest worries that the Department of Justice 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:01.640 has been saying for a long time for why they 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.760 haven't released the files is because they say it'll implicate 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.240 other people who have never been criminally charged. But now 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.000 Cash Battella is saying that there aren't other people, and 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.959 so that undercuts their original argument of why they weren't 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.199 releasing the files in the first place. So I did 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.400 there are other people that could potentially be criminally charged 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.440 because there's some type of connection and therefore we shouldn't 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.080 release the files so that we can continue investigating them 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:29.040 and potentially prosecute them. Or there aren't these other people 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.440 and therefore they're not releasing the files because they just 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.720 don't want egg on their face. In terms of Trump 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:34.920 being in them, I don't know. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.360 How do you process that contradiction as you're as you're 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.000 doing that, how do you how do you hear it? Right? So, 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.560 as as you're going along in your in your day, 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.880 you're an attorney, you're a journalist, you're you're you're posting 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:53.240 twenty times a day, does that immediately send a flare 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.240 up for you that that is a that's just a 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.200 major contradiction. Is that just par for the course? Does 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.200 that register to you? Is just well, that's one of 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.680 the you know, one hundred different contradictions that have happened 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.840 today because you know they lie all the time. How 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.199 does that How does that trigger for you? Yeah? 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:13.840 I mean I think it's more the latter than is 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.560 the former. But I will say with one caveat in this, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.120 in the Epsteine situation, I have spoken to so many 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.880 of the victims several of the victims already. I've interviewed 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.160 many of them, and every time I speak to them, 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.760 their stories line up. I mean, these are these are 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.360 They're not making this up. And it's not one story 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.520 that's different from another. Every single story is almost the same. 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.640 It's the same pattern of behavior, and it's the same 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.160 kind of influence and control of wealthy and powerful people 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:44.160 connected to Epstein. And so this kind of lie from 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.880 the administration is very different from their other lies because 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.360 there is this nefarious aspect of it that they're trying 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.480 to conceal or at least push down the stories of 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.960 these survivors. And these survivors deserve to know the truth. 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:03.000 They deserve to know everything that happened regarding Epstein, Maxwell 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.040 and anyone else connected to them, and it really seems 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.640 like this administration doesn't want that ever to happen. 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:17.400 There was a Air Force test pilot named John Boyd, 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.439 and amongst the things that John Boyd did in his careers, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:26.720 he was assigned after the Korean War to assess air 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:32.200 combat decision making because casualties were deemed high, to see 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:37.000 if there was a decision making matrix that could be 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.360 applied to make the American pilots faster. And what John 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.080 Boyd came up with is something called the DA loop 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:51.560 and stands for observe, orient decide Act. You think about 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.440 it as a circle and the notion is and this 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:59.760 has expanded to business schools and really the DA loop 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.559 can apply to any competitive situation. And there is no 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.120 exceptions to the oodle loop. You have the fastest oodle loop, 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.720 you win, right, you can you can get through something 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:16.400 where you observe, orient to it, decide what it is 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.120 in an act. And it's something I've talked a lot 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.079 about over my political career and campaigns. We want to 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.360 have a fast oodle loop. And I view you as 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.000 someone who is a very fast oodle loop in terms 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:37.640 of your journalism, being able to look at something, orient 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.520 to it, decide what it is, and act. And so 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.880 I want to I want to talk about this last 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.199 week in the in the United in the United States, 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:52.720 and one of the things is that I try to 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.760 put things into a historical perspective. And you don't ever 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:01.400 want to loosely say that you know with a superlative 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.320 that this moment is the worst right, or it is 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:10.080 the greatest crisis, or the most dangerous rhetoric like right 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.240 now today because because it's usually not, today's an important 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.080 day in the history of this country. September seventeenth, it's 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.240 one of the bloodiest days in American history. Today is 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:27.320 the Battle of Antietam anniversary. For those who are Civil 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.760 War fetishists and would like to see a second American 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.480 Civil War, look at some of the pictures from the 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:39.520 battlefield of Antietam. But what happened in America in this 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.760 in this last week. And I don't mean about the assassination, 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.320 I mean in the reaction to the assassination by the 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.600 leaders of the of the American government. What did you say? 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.520 Yeah? And I've actually told this to a lot of people. 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.840 I really felt as though this past week is and 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.000 has been a real turning point in the past decade 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.080 of politics of just American society in ways that we've 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.760 never seen before. I don't think it was ever this 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.600 bad when Trump was almost assassinated last year. That wasn't 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.480 that didn't feel like what this past week really felt like. 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.360 And to me, it all boils down to a root 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.600 cause that's been evident in our politics for a very 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.720 long time. It's the political politicization of non political tragedies. 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.120 And I say non political, not in the sense that 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.680 Kirk wasn't political. He was political, and the shooting likely 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.080 had something to do with politics. But a non political 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.520 tragedy is gun violence. A non political tragedy is an 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:41.680 aircraft crash, terrorists, terrorism attack, things like that, where in 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.840 this day and age, we immediately weaponize and it's not 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.560 just on the right. Both parties do this, immediately weaponize 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:53.040 non political events and try to politicize them. Right when 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.320 a plane crashes in Washington, d C. The first thing 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.480 the right did was blame DEI. When Charlie Kirk is shot, 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.200 before we even knew what the motive was, whether it 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.560 was a political attack or not, the right was saying 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.360 that it was the left fault. The left was saying 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.840 that it was a far right guy immediately, and that 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.000 is a problem because we don't know right and we still, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.920 I mean truthfully, to this day, we still don't know 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.400 why Charlie Kirk was shot, the motive behind it. The 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.840 evidence that was released from the Utah County Attorney's Office 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.400 yesterday really didn't give us a ton more that we 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.920 hadn't already known. And so we got into a point 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:32.680 in American society, where I think that the politicization of 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.280 these tragedies has become so bad that I don't know 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.680 how we recover from it. And I in this past week, 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.120 really it was really different in a lot of ways 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:44.840 and ways that I've never felt before. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:53.440 I have a very specific reaction to this, and I 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.520 think one of the things that I've tried to say 0:16:55.800 --> 0:17:04.160 is that no man, no woman can be held responsible 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:11.320 after their existence ends for how living people react to 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:17.159 their death. And so for me, you know, Charlie Kirk 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.720 in his thirty one years is one of the great 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:26.040 tragedies of this is that when you get a little 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.879 older and you have perspective, I think from midlife looking back, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.360 you know, thirty one years of age, Charlie Kirk had 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.359 a lot of road in front of him to come 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:43.040 to different perspectives in life. And from my perspective, maybe 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:48.240 he would have grown up from some of the things 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:54.000 he did, he believed and he said. But whatever my 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.960 thought about that, it is all etched in granite now 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.960 and there is no next day for Charlie Kirk. And 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:05.400 that's a terrible tragedy and one that I lament. There 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:12.320 is the act of violence. I was on a podcast 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.800 and a friend emailed the clip, and I thought when 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:18.840 I was opening it that I was going to see 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:24.119 him say something offensive, uh not be murdered, And I 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.919 deplore that and have with every fiber of my being. 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:34.600 But in the response in the aftermath, what I saw 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.080 was the attempt by MAGA to turn Charlie Kirk into 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:47.600 horse Vessel, the first martyr of the cause. I saw 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:54.480 highly choreographed videography and photography of an open casket and 0:18:54.600 --> 0:19:03.560 fundraising pitches, which I think is sick, but that's my opinion. 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:09.800 But what I also saw was and I don't think 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.959 this has ever happened in the United States, and I 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.159 want you to level set this for me from a 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:24.719 journalism perspective. If I understood the government position, it was 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:29.000 that if you don't love Trump enough, if you dissent, 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.040 then you're a co conspirator in the murder of Charlie Kirk, 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:39.320 and the government's coming after you with everything that it has. 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:45.840 Vice President said that Stephen Miller said that in one 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:51.080 of Donald Trump's closest confidants, Laura Lumer, called for mass murder, 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:56.000 mass executions for those who de sent against Donald Trump. 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:02.159 Is there any exaggeration in my assessment of that, in 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.600 your in your view of how of how I orient 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:07.960 towards that, because that's what I heard. 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.400 Yeah, I mean that's what I That's what I heard too. 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.560 Truth be told. But what I I will say, with 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.400 the one caveat, I do think there's some exaggeration because 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.600 I think that what Trump and co. Are doing in 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.760 the aftermath of Kirk shooting is they have to do 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:26.360 this publicly for their base, to consolidate MAGA, to consolidate 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.800 Republicans around one kind of idea. They have to go 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.560 out and say this was the left. They have to 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:32.440 go out and say. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.159 Let me, let me chat, let me chat, let me 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.959 challenge because I think you're doing political analysis now. I mean, 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.080 they don't have to do anything, sure, right, they could 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:45.920 have de escalated the situation. I mean, the greatest political 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:51.000 speech extemporaneously in American history was delivered by Robert Kennedy, 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:55.359 and it came in Indianapolis after the assassination of Martin 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:58.520 Luther King. You said to give a political speech all 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.760 black crowd, delivered from the back of a pickup truck. 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.920 Told the crowd that Martin Luther King had been murdered 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.960 and talked about we need more love in America, talked 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:12.000 about one of the things, talked about his brother's assassination, said, 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.080 a white man killed my brother. So I so the 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.600 political motive of it. But they don't have to do that. 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:20.240 But they are doing it. 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:24.200 They are doing it, and they're doing it because that's 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:25.960 all they know. In a way, they're doing it to 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.960 consolidate this movement behind them. I mean, I will say 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.119 it's interesting that they they're doing it. And then at 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.000 the same time, the Deputy Attorney General Blanche he can't 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.720 name which left leading organizations are actually going after. Right, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:40.080 if they were ready to go after all these organizations 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:43.639 and these left leading personalities, presumably they would have at 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.840 least one name. Donald Trump was asked about even Antifa, 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:49.560 whether or not he'd labeled them a domestic terrorist organization, 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.080 and he kind of punted on the issue and said, 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.479 I kind of want to, but I don't know. It 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:56.879 wasn't it's your answer. And it really seems like a 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.680 lot of rhetoric and not a lot of action, which 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:03.240 is me kind of emblematic of what the Trump presidency is. 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:07.480 Over the past nine months, he has actually hasn't done 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.040 a ton as president. He hasn't been able to outside 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.359 of his executive orders, which are not law. Right, he 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.439 can sign as many executive orders as he wants, but 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.159 they're not law. He's passed one piece of real legislation, 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.240 and the bypart is not The bypart is in the 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.080 budget bill earlier this year, the big beautiful bill. 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:25.879 That's it. 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:28.920 Outside of that, he hasn't done a ton. It's a 0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:30.520 lot of rhetoric and not a lot of action. And 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:32.639 I see the same thing happening here, honestly. 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.440 So I think that this is a really fair point. 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.119 But I'll be honest, it scares the shit out of me. 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.240 And here's why. Right, if we were on the edge 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:49.360 of a lake and there was thin ice on that 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:51.600 lake in the winter, I would not step out on 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:55.800 the ice anywhere on the lake. Right. What you're saying 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:59.640 is and no disrespect on you're like, there is thin 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:03.960 ice on the lake, right, But you can walk out 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.920 on the lake here, right. The thing ice is out 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:12.439 there somewhere, right. And is the question of he means 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:17.200 it or he doesn't mean it, And he's saying it 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:22.480 because he's producing a television show. But for me, you 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:25.639 just raise something that I think is the greatest journalism 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:30.879 failure of the last ten years. Do you do you 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.080 think this is a fair statement what I'm about to say. 0:23:34.040 --> 0:23:39.479 There's not a single interview that I'm aware of that 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:43.720 would close the gap between what we're talking about here, 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.560 right between what he says and his intentions. There's not 0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.320 a single interview that anyone has done in ten years 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:57.800 time that probes Donald Trump at a deep philosophical level. Agree, 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:01.760 not one, not one right, not one that would say, well, 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.200 but if you if you could hang one of your 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:12.439 political opponents, would you would you like to r Do 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:14.600 you believe in that? And this is important in this 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:19.720 country because you know, when George Washington rode into New 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:22.840 York City at the end of the American Revolution, one 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:26.440 of his first stops was out the loyalist presses who 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:31.000 defamed him constantly and his wife, which pissed him off. 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:36.160 And you know what he did. He posted guards outside 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:41.639 the presses so the patriots wouldn't burn them down, because 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.480 he understood the importance of the free media to a 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:52.680 free society. Yeah, it is appalling. I'm with you, do 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:56.840 you think just looking ahead? And I know we got 0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:59.399 to wrap it up here in the next couple of minutes. 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:03.680 What's going to happen at this memorial service? What are 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:09.800 you picking up from MAGA, What is the plan for this, 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:14.520 and what is the message that you anticipate that the 0:25:15.359 --> 0:25:17.840 country will hear, because it's it's not going to be 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:19.040 a unifying one. 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:21.360 Do they have it's this weekend, right. 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:22.600 It's the twentieth. 0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:25.840 Yeah, it's not going to be a unifying one. Actually, 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:28.320