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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Sunday, February fifteenth. We hope

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Speaker 2: you had a beautiful Valentine's Day weekend. We have a

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Speaker 2: stacked night of headlines. Remember the ou pair who has

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Speaker 2: been accused of manslaughter for allegedly taking the life of

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Speaker 2: the man she was working for his wife. She's been

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Speaker 2: sentenced in court. The Alexander brothers. Also, the sex trafficking

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Speaker 2: case for all three of them continues. Plus where is

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Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie still to this day as we speak, there

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Speaker 2: have been new developments all weekend. We're going to unpack

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Speaker 2: those as well. But she remains missing. How could this

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Speaker 2: possibly be? And look, we've been saying week we definitely

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Speaker 2: could use a little therapy for our souls. So we

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Speaker 2: have Jessica Kaplan with us, family and marriage therapist who

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Speaker 2: is going to be kind of talking us all off.

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Speaker 2: Whatever this proverbial ledge we may find ourselves on and

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Speaker 2: doing a little bit of a deep dive into all

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Speaker 2: things domestic violence. So here we go, kids, Happy Sunday.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in.

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Speaker 2: We have a full house because we have associate producer

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Speaker 2: Ava Kaplan with us, as well as producer Taha, and

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Speaker 2: of course we have Sam and Adam in the control

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Speaker 2: room as well. Ladies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Sunday, Sunday Sunday already. Did you guys have

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Speaker 3: a good Valentine's Day?

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Speaker 2: I had a really good one. Good. Oh, Stephanie, go

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Speaker 2: give me the day. I just had a good Valentine's

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Speaker 2: on my way. I don't very low expectations, but I

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Speaker 2: did get Roses scent not here north there, but like

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Speaker 2: worth noting and I don't know. I just feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm counting my blessings. I'm not being cagy. There's nothing specific,

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Speaker 2: but I think what I would like for us to

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Speaker 2: start doing, though, in the spirit of love, is introducing

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Speaker 2: some love stories that are not ending in murder into

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Speaker 2: our show. How do we do that?

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Speaker 4: I have a love story, it's a.

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Speaker 5: Guys, I have I have an announcement. I'm hard launching

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Speaker 5: it on the show. I have a Hinge, a boyfriend

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Speaker 5: from Hinge, and stop it. I don't even think he's

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Speaker 5: a murderer or using me for an evil plot work.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna give me all his details later. I'm yes, obviously,

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Speaker 2: though okay, we've already done a Tier one wait hard launch.

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to hear this.

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Speaker 4: We had a one Valentine's Day we met today.

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Speaker 5: We actually went on our first day exactly three months

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Speaker 5: ago today, first time we ever met, because it was

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Speaker 5: a Hinge situation. But luckily it's one of those things

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Speaker 5: where it's like we met on Hinge, but we have

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Speaker 5: mutual mutual friends, so it's not like some complete rando,

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Speaker 5: which makes me feel better, you know, it's like there's

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Speaker 5: people who can corroborate that he's like a real person.

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Speaker 5: So we have a really nice Pantine's Day.

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Speaker 2: Can you explore even what Hinge is for anyone who

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Speaker 2: doesn't know this particular app is. By the way, Ava

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Speaker 2: is our little Felicity if you guys remember that show.

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Speaker 2: But we call her Felicity because she's running around you know,

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Speaker 2: the greater Manhattan area, you know, giving us like cool

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn vibes. So this is so exciting.

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Speaker 6: Ava in the city.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's more like girls, which is the one.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I don't have the budget for a sex and the

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Speaker 5: city lifestyle at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Hinge.

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Speaker 5: Hinge is the I feel like I'm doing a Hinge

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Speaker 5: ad right now. It's called the app made to be deleted,

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Speaker 5: and it's like Tinder kind of is over a little bit.

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Speaker 5: Tinder had its moment. Hinge is like what everyone's on nowadays.

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Speaker 5: And I'd say seventy percent of people I know my

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Speaker 5: age getting in relationships or meeting on Hinge.

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Speaker 2: That's through Facebook, right, so you have friends in common?

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Speaker 2: Is that sort of.

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Speaker 4: No, it can be anyone.

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Speaker 2: It can be anyone stranger, it can be a stranger.

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Speaker 5: Luckily this person it was like when we started getting

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Speaker 5: to talking, it was like, oh, you went to school here.

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Speaker 5: I had some friends who went to school here. We

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Speaker 5: had some connections. So it was one of those situations.

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Speaker 5: But it could put have been a stranger.

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Speaker 7: But how lucky he's lucky.

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Speaker 2: How lucky is this guy that he gets this. How

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Speaker 2: lucky is this person that gets to be with Eva? True,

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Speaker 2: it is so great, Like this person better be through

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Speaker 2: the I'm going to be doing the room Valentine's Day roses. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was lovely but not true crime. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Body also has really good one.

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Speaker 7: Body has some pretty ones, nice, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I was very surprised, like it to Valentine's Day. It's

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Speaker 2: just not having a trick on Valentine's Day. It doesn't matter,

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Speaker 2: like just enjoying it, like self love for Valentine's Day, right,

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Speaker 2: Like send yourself some flowers, you know, make yourself your

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Speaker 2: favorite coffee in the morning, have a lazy morning, have

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Speaker 2: a busy what a big your thing is? We should

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Speaker 2: get to it.

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Speaker 6: I have Nancy updates.

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Speaker 7: I woke up.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about you guys, but I woke up

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Speaker 3: every day this weekend checking for updates.

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Speaker 2: That was twenty four hours a day. I'm naturally, like

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Speaker 2: psychotically obsessed. I don't know what's wrong with me. I

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Speaker 2: can't stop.

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Speaker 3: So Over the weekend, it marked two weeks since she's

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Speaker 3: been missing, and we're entering the third week of searching

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Speaker 3: since Nancy Guthrie vanished. She's eighty four years old. She

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Speaker 3: lives in Tucson, and she's also the mother of Today

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Speaker 3: Show co anchor Savannah Guthrie. And she was reported missing

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Speaker 3: after she disappeared from her home in the early morning

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Speaker 3: hours of February. First, investigators do believe she wasn't abducted,

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Speaker 3: you know, and they cited all the blood that they

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Speaker 3: found on the porch, and then they released last week

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Speaker 3: they released this really scary ring ness camera footage right

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Speaker 3: that we got from the FBI, and it's like a

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Speaker 3: man in a balaclava and he's wearing a backpack and

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Speaker 3: a jacket and crazy gloves and it's very scary. So

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Speaker 3: now we're entering the third week and there's been no

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Speaker 3: confirmed arrests and no publicly idents viable suspects. Authorities have

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Speaker 3: carried out sir to warrants at locations near her home.

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Speaker 3: They've conducted traffic stops, they've got drones out, and they've

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Speaker 3: worked through thousands and thousands of tips through the public.

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Speaker 3: And at this time, Nancy Guthries we're about to remain unknown.

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Speaker 3: But over the weekend we learned a couple things. Okay,

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Speaker 3: DNA evidence not matching Nancy Guthrie or any of her

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Speaker 3: close contacts has been recovered and is being analyzed. And

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Speaker 3: they've also found these gloves. Okay, we talked about the

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Speaker 3: gloves last week, but apparently the gloves have.

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Speaker 6: Some DNA in it.

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Speaker 3: Now we're still waiting for a little bit of clarification

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Speaker 3: on what the FBI said, but here's what Brian Enton said.

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Speaker 3: The FBI said the gloves, found approximately two miles from

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Speaker 3: the victim's home, Nancy Guthrie, in a field near the

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Speaker 3: side of the road, were packaged up by the p

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Speaker 3: Mac County Sheriff's office and sent overnight on the twelfth,

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Speaker 3: and they arrived at the private lab in Florida on

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Speaker 3: the thirteenth. The FBI received preliminary results yesterday Valentine's Day,

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Speaker 3: and our awaiting quality control and official confirmation before putting

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Speaker 3: this unknown male profile into CODIS and cotis is. You

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Speaker 3: know the database that they used to It houses a

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Speaker 3: bunch of people's DNA and it then have been convicted

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Speaker 3: of crimes. Okay, so if this guy did something in

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Speaker 3: the past, there might be a hit and CODIS. But

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Speaker 3: we're all kind of waiting on the edge of our

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Speaker 3: seats right now.

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Speaker 2: I jump in for one quick second. Of course, what

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Speaker 2: I find so interesting right now? And all weekend I've

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Speaker 2: been riveted because again we spoke about this briefly on Thursday.

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Speaker 2: There's a jurisdiction. Hiccup, it appears, and we're watching at

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Speaker 2: real time because this is something very very real that

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Speaker 2: happens in many big cases where the federal agency, the FBI,

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Speaker 2: comes in that basically oversees all things. And then you

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Speaker 2: also have your local team who's your share. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've seen the sheriff who's been kind of the frontman

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Speaker 2: many you know, many press conferences, et cetera. It's a

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Speaker 2: very taxing thing to be in control of your team,

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Speaker 2: who frankly have been training for this, but likely haven't

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Speaker 2: had a ton of real time experience in this, thankfully

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Speaker 2: because they live in such a beautiful safe place like Tucson.

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Speaker 2: And now your federal team comes in and they have

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Speaker 2: a different level of experience. Right, So when it comes

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Speaker 2: to DNA and putting it through what they call CODIS,

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Speaker 2: which is this database that has anybody who's had to

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Speaker 2: legally put their DNA or fingerprints, right, Like, that's the

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Speaker 2: database if you've committed a crime. It's not just like

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Speaker 2: anybody under the sun, Like I'm not in CODIS, like correct, right,

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Speaker 2: that's right, but it's very important. And so what do

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Speaker 2: you think, Boddy, because I feel like this is sort

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Speaker 2: of becoming a little bit of a well.

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Speaker 3: Routers did report that US law enforcement source told them

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Speaker 3: that Chris Nanos, the pm A Kona Sheriff, has blocked

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Speaker 3: the f from accessing some of that key evidence and

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Speaker 3: sending this DNA sample from the gloves to their private

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Speaker 3: lab in Florida. But Chris Nanos has denied that. He

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Speaker 3: said that they have a great working relationship and that

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Speaker 3: he's working hand in hand with the FBI and he

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Speaker 3: doesn't understand where that's kind of coming from.

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Speaker 2: It's too hard too, and also the sheriff is under

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Speaker 2: some scrutiny. Also, by the way, I don't disagree that

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Speaker 2: crime scene was not well kept. That crime scene was

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Speaker 2: handed back to the Guthrie family very quickly in the

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Speaker 2: early stages of this investigation. It was not really cornered

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Speaker 2: off very carefully. Then it was reopened, then it was

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Speaker 2: given back, then it was reopened, then it was given back.

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Speaker 2: DNA cannot have that experience. It has to be it

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Speaker 2: is on and it has to be perfect, and it

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Speaker 2: is sacred and it is important. So just the idea

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Speaker 2: that the sheriff and the FBI are sort of at

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Speaker 2: odds regarding who's taking care of the DNA is a

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Speaker 2: little alarming.

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Speaker 6: I think it's a lot alot arming.

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Speaker 8: And I think also what you said about the crime

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Speaker 8: scene is it's really it's so sad because it's not pristine.

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Speaker 8: Once people are allowed in it, that's it. It's kind

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Speaker 8: of ruined.

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Speaker 7: You can get.

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Speaker 2: Argued awaigh in court. So if you're the defense attorney,

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Speaker 2: you can just point to that. It's like we've seen it.

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Speaker 2: We've seen the OJ playbook.

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Speaker 6: We've seen this.

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Speaker 2: Many times, where all you have to do is like, hey,

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Speaker 2: my guy might be guilty, but hey, look at that

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Speaker 2: crime scene, and therefore he should get off because it

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Speaker 2: was not well kept.

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Speaker 3: So that's the sensitivity and the important piece about the DNA.

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Speaker 3: And what the FBI said too, is that investigators. What

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Speaker 3: they said was investigators collected approximately sixteen gloves in various

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Speaker 3: areas near the home. All right, most of them, this

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Speaker 3: is crazy to me. Most of them were searchers gloves

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Speaker 3: that they discarded in various areas when they were searching

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Speaker 3: the city. So you got searchers out there just taking

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Speaker 3: off their gloves and throwing them around the ball.

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Speaker 2: We cannot be loitering in that manner any longer. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: you're out with your gloves on searching and then you're

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Speaker 2: just talking left and right. That's terrible.

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Speaker 3: But one one of the gloves has a DNA profile

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Speaker 3: and it's different and it appears to match. This glove

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Speaker 3: appears to match the glove of the suspect in the

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Speaker 3: surveillance photo or video. So hopefully, you know, maybe there's

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Speaker 3: something there. We're gonna have to wait and see. The

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Speaker 3: FBI has and will continue to provide assistance on whatever

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Speaker 3: timeline is provided to us, is what they continue to say.

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Speaker 3: They're also using this a signal sniffer. Did you guys

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Speaker 3: see about this helicopter with a signal sniffer? What they're

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Speaker 3: looking for the bluetooth signal of Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker because

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Speaker 3: it kind oft to be a bluetooth and they mounted

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Speaker 3: on a helicopter and this helicopter is literally going through

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Speaker 3: Tucson at a low altitude because you know it's bluetooth,

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Speaker 3: it's searching for the signal.

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Speaker 6: It's crazy.

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Speaker 7: I've never heard about that.

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Speaker 2: It's like, And by the way, how about the fact

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Speaker 2: that we're two weeks into a case that we're all

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Speaker 2: watching twenty four hours a day to some degree, it's

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Speaker 2: captivated the nation, even though there's so many big things

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Speaker 2: happening in the world right now relative to crime and

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Speaker 2: you know, politics, the world, all the things. But for

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Speaker 2: some reason, this Nancy Guthri case has really has us

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Speaker 2: all captivated, and I wonder, you know, I think it's

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Speaker 2: just an example of so much empathy being put out

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Speaker 2: in the world. And I'm so proud of this audience.

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Speaker 2: But if you're if you're a family member of somebody

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Speaker 2: else who's been missing, do you feel like your your

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Speaker 2: loved ones are getting unrepresented or underrepresented? Probably probably to

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Speaker 2: think about like how do we really Gaddy.

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Speaker 3: Pat Yeah, when Gatty Petita went missing, there was this

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Speaker 3: big swell kind of like we're experiencing right now. And

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Speaker 3: even Joe Petito, you know, commented on all the attention

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Speaker 3: that his daughter was receiving. He was, you know, obviously

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Speaker 3: very grateful for it, but he was to me, I

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Speaker 3: was so proud of him because you know, he was like,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of like black and brown kids that

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Speaker 3: are missing that don't get the attention. In fact, the

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Speaker 3: Gabby Patito Foundation talks about that a lot. Very interesting

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Speaker 3: on what gets attention and what does what does I

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Speaker 3: think this one has all the elements that.

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Speaker 6: People are attracted to when there's a case.

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Speaker 3: It was scary, you know, we have this this surveillance

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Speaker 3: footage that's very scary.

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Speaker 6: It's a puzzle.

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Speaker 3: You have the added element of all these ransom notes

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Speaker 3: that are being sent to TMZ.

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Speaker 2: Elderly like we all can relate our moms or our grandmothers,

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Speaker 2: like we would never want this is like touches. There's

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Speaker 2: no person that you could imagine whatever wish this for anybody,

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Speaker 2: not to mention it's Savannah Guthrie's grand you know, mother

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Speaker 2: NBC's finest. She's a member of the media. So everyone's

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Speaker 2: kind of playing all in right.

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Speaker 3: So on Friday, though, let me go back to this.

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Speaker 3: On Friday, there was an operation. Did you guys see

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Speaker 3: this big swat? It was all over the news. There

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Speaker 3: was law enforcement activity on Friday night that ended without

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Speaker 3: any arrests none. There were tons of vehicles like cop

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Speaker 3: cars and swap vehicles and whatnot. He escorted two people

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Speaker 3: out of the home and that they were kind of

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Speaker 3: questioning but we don't know why. But it didn't lead

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Speaker 3: to any of us at all. I wonder, but they

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Speaker 3: said it was from a federal search warrant that was

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Speaker 3: based on a lead. So they must have, you know,

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Speaker 3: through their investigatory process come across this lead that made

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Speaker 3: them go get the search warrant in a federal judge said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but I wonder what it was.

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Speaker 2: My understanding is it was a lead that came in

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Speaker 2: through the tip line, was my understanding. And yeah, Like Friday,

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Speaker 2: I found myself like I could not get taken away

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Speaker 2: from the television. I was watching it all I thought,

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Speaker 2: Brian Enton is on twenty four hour day coverage. Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's almost like an SNL skit. I'm like, is Brian

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Speaker 2: Entton still there in front of it? Like it's impossible

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Speaker 2: that he's still standing there, but he is. His subverage

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Speaker 2: has been remarkable, and it's been remarkable, and it seems

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Speaker 2: like if you were in the Tucson area, how could

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Speaker 2: you possibly get away? At this point, everybody is looking well.

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Speaker 3: TMZ is saying they got another ransom note in that

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Speaker 3: it says that it pair to go international with this.

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Speaker 3: So what does that mean? Is Nancy in Canada or

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Speaker 3: Mexico or Brazil or something.

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Speaker 8: Now, well, we will obviously be staying on this as

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Speaker 8: everything unfolds, and stick around because when we come back,

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Speaker 8: the all pair gets the maximum in the manslaughter case,

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Speaker 8: and there's some really shocking testimony in the Alexander Brothers child.

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Speaker 6: Keep it here at True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body move in. Happy Sunday, everybody. We

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Speaker 2: hope you had a great weekends in an awesome Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, we are back at it because the headlines

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Speaker 2: kept coming. Courtney, the O Pair. We have been covering

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Speaker 2: this case since day one. We know that the O

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Speaker 2: pair in this hideous double murder trial is getting kind

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Speaker 2: of a sweet deal or is she Well, I have

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Speaker 2: to say I'm happy with this. So to update, everyone

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Speaker 2: who didn't have this news crossed their desk. So, just

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Speaker 2: on Friday, two days ago, the judge sentenced the uppair

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Speaker 2: Juliana Marcahllis to the maximum. It's ten years in prison

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Speaker 2: and that's for the involuntary manslaughter charged that she was

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Speaker 2: up against in the death of the victim, Joseph Ryan.

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Speaker 2: So catch you up even further, Prosecutors successfully argued that

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Speaker 2: the pair and Brendan Banfield, the man she was working

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Speaker 2: for and who she was having an affair with, plotted

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Speaker 2: to kill Banfield's wife, Christine, and this was so that

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Speaker 2: the au pair Juliana Margahllis and Brendan Banfield could be

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Speaker 2: together romantically, which it appears they made happen quickly after

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Speaker 2: Christine's demise.

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Speaker 6: That they caused.

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Speaker 8: So these guys, the Upair and Banfield also conspired to

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Speaker 8: lure another victim, that's Joseph Ryan to the Virginia your home.

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Speaker 8: They did this through fake online accounts and under the

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Speaker 8: guise of a BDSM sexual encounter. So the tenure term

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Speaker 8: is again it's the maximum, and it was well above

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Speaker 8: the joint recommendation of time served that was agreed upon

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Speaker 8: in the plea deal with prosecutors.

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Speaker 2: So I really feel judged.

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Speaker 3: Gave it to her right, like yeah, message I think

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Speaker 3: like he was not buying any for crap.

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Speaker 2: And he even said you have to live with yourself

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Speaker 2: and think about what you have done to the victims

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Speaker 2: and the victims family, like you have to live with

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Speaker 2: yourself now.

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Speaker 8: He was not playing around, no, and you know, the

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Speaker 8: judge even calls it the most serious manslaughter scenario the

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Speaker 8: court has ever seen.

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Speaker 6: And we've spoken about that.

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Speaker 8: I mean, you know, I've was enraged by the manslaughter charge, right,

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Speaker 8: you know, And just.

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Speaker 2: For clarity, so basically, this is the old pair that

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Speaker 2: moves into this beautiful family's home and then she pretty

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Speaker 2: quickly starts getting it on with dad husband. In this scenario, husband,

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Speaker 2: Dad is like, honestly, I really can't afford to get divorced.

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Speaker 2: Money is tight. I'm also a crook and a con

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Speaker 2: So maybe I'll get with my O pair and will

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Speaker 2: together will kill my wife and mother of my children.

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Speaker 2: And then we're going to bring a sex worker over

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Speaker 2: and then we'll pin it on them. We're going to

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Speaker 2: make it look like a break in, like a breaken

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Speaker 2: for my trap, like yeah, and we're going to also

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Speaker 2: make the mother of my children's memory stained because it'll

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Speaker 2: look like she was like calling in a sex worker.

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Speaker 2: So well, Joseph Bryan wasn't a sex worker.

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Speaker 8: He was someone who was online in an environment for

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Speaker 8: completely consensual adults.

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Speaker 2: By the way, such a good point, right, It wasn't

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Speaker 2: like a pay for sex thing, by the way, which

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Speaker 2: again would not that that would matter either way, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: this was something consensual, right that.

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Speaker 6: They tried to make it look consensual. Right.

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Speaker 3: Plan was diabolical, one of the most diabolical plans for

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Speaker 3: a murder I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: And this o pair is quite young. How old is she? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's pretty young. I think she's in her twenties.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's not thirty yet. But the judge

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Speaker 8: she'll have a long time to think about her actions.

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Speaker 8: The judge went on, and she said, your actions were deliberate,

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Speaker 8: they were self serving, and demonstrated a profound disregard for

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Speaker 8: human life. You do not deserve anything other than incarceration

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Speaker 8: and a life of reflection on what you've done. So

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Speaker 8: this nanny is twenty five years old and has a

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Speaker 8: lifetime to hopefully think about these actions.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, she's getting what is a ten

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Speaker 2: year sentence basically because she threw her you know, boyfriend,

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Speaker 2: but you're senior under the bus, right, so she cooperated

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Speaker 2: with authorities. And for me, ten years seems astoundingly low.

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Speaker 3: It does for me too, But it's the maximum that

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Speaker 3: the judge could give her for this charge. And I

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Speaker 3: mean he really could have, he really could have met her,

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Speaker 3: you know, especially since they agreed upon you know, time

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Speaker 3: served and why not know the judge was like not

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Speaker 3: having it. I thought it was fantastic by the judge.

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Speaker 3: I'm very happy with the outcome. I mean, of course,

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Speaker 3: I wish you would have gotten more, but I'm very

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Speaker 3: happy with the outcome on this one exactly.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it was, you know, the highest that could

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Speaker 6: have happened.

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Speaker 5: Something that I always wonder is like behind the scenes,

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Speaker 5: the prosecutors and the judge are kind of like doing

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Speaker 5: a wink wink, nod nod, like we're gonna give her

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Speaker 5: this plea deal and and say that we're gonna recommend

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Speaker 5: time served, but we both know that you're gonna actually

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Speaker 5: sentence her to ten years.

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Speaker 7: Like that really mess up.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's I feel like that does happen. No,

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Speaker 2: I feel like in that version, Glenn Close is for

403
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Speaker 2: sure making that deal with you know, Sarah Paulsen and

404
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Speaker 2: Kim Kardashian for sure. But like I do think there

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00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: is some wink wink. And you know, one thing we

406
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Speaker 2: have learned in this job is that whoever has the

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Speaker 2: best lawyer wins, And you know, sometimes the circumstance the crime.

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Speaker 2: The evidence, sometimes none of it matters if you have

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Speaker 2: the best lawyer imaginable. And in this case, I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they threw the book at her and she had a

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Speaker 2: coming and it was so ava what you said.

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Speaker 8: It sounds like something that could happen, but it should

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Speaker 8: not happen ever, and would call it I'm wondering, Well,

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Speaker 8: the prosecutors they could not have made this case without

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Speaker 8: the nanny, and they could not have gotten Brendan Banfield,

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Speaker 8: who is now away for life.

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Speaker 6: So there is that to consider.

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Speaker 8: But again with the with the sentencing, the judge also

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Speaker 8: went on to say how little empathy that Marco hallis

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Speaker 8: this nanny appeared to show, and also underline that the

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Speaker 8: plot could not have happened without her.

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Speaker 2: At what point does that murder meeting happen where she

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Speaker 2: sits in the home of the woman that she's working

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Speaker 2: for and has a meeting with the husband about how

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Speaker 2: to kill her.

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Speaker 6: I know, yeah, that's a good question. When does this

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Speaker 6: murder plan take place? Right?

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and this had gone on apparently for a

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Speaker 2: very long time. And remember she is culpable. In the

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Speaker 2: eleventh hour, when put to the test, she was able

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Speaker 2: to pull a trigger like she was down. So you know,

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Speaker 2: you have to ask yourself that these are times that

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Speaker 2: we look like, who's going to really do that? She

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Speaker 2: stood there with the straight face and now she has

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Speaker 2: her eyeglasses on and her little you know bangs and

436
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 2: giving me, you know, school marm vibes. But I don't

437
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 2: buy it.

438
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 3: She looks like thirty five, not twenty five, right, Like,

439
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 3: she looks like marm.

440
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 2: Like she literally went through like a dud makeover. Yeah,

441
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 2: a dun.

442
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 3: Makeup makes her seem more homely and exactly mapable of

443
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: this kind of planning and deceit or something.

444
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 8: It's quite correct and like totally so that's where it lies.

445
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 8: I think we're all just applauding the judge, and I'd

446
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 8: like to just end this on the victim's family member statements,

447
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 8: which are brief but powerful.

448
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 6: Uh, the totally.

449
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 8: Innocent victim, Joseph Ryan, who was lured to the house.

450
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 8: His family spoke and his mother said, Joe meant.

451
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 6: More than nothing. So I'm just going to get there and.

452
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: That absolutely to say that, yes, Joe meant more than nothing.

453
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 2: Like this poor person just like stepped into this wicked plot. Yeah,

454
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 2: he had nothing to do. With and now his family

455
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: he was.

456
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 3: A burglar and adest like, how date that there should

457
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 3: be added time for that, because for the moments, for

458
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 3: moments in time, this guy's poor family was probably like,

459
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: what the heck? Not only is our son, you know, murdered,

460
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 3: but they said he broke into their house.

461
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 6: That's not my son.

462
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 7: Do you know what I mean?

463
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: How horrific? Exactly?

464
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 3: I'm tonight on iHeartRadio or we're talking true crime all

465
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 3: the time. I'm body moving and I'm here with Courtney

466
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 3: and stuff. And we were right in the middle of

467
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 3: giving the update in the all per murder trial and

468
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 3: the sentencing that happened. Courtney, what else you got?

469
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 8: Just the last thing is a note from victim Christine

470
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 8: Banfield's her family and again this is the mother of

471
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 8: the four year old child who is now parentless because

472
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 8: of this. And they said Christine suffered a violent, horrific

473
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 8: and senseless death. The lies told about her after her

474
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 8: murder were just as painful as her death. We are

475
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 8: committed to ensuring that Christine will always be remembered as

476
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 8: the beautiful person she was to everyone that loved her.

477
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 8: So we'll leave it with the family's words and you

478
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 8: know that is where it lies. And do you guys

479
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 8: think are you ready for a little update in the

480
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 8: Alexander brothers trial.

481
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: Oh? Of course, what are these scoundrels up to now?

482
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: All three?

483
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 8: So the third of trial for defendants Alan or an

484
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 8: Intale Alexander. It's finished now, and in it there was

485
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 8: really emotional testimony from multiple sexual assault accusers. We've spoken

486
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 8: about some of them, and their accounts are of alleged

487
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 8: drug facilitated attacks. Interestingly, and I do not recall hearing

488
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 8: something like this in recent memory, but one of the

489
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 8: jurors was removed because he admitted he had already decided.

490
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 6: The verdict in this.

491
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: And did he say what the verdict was that he decided.

492
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 6: No, that has not been made public.

493
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 7: Curious what he was going, which direction was going?

494
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: I know, I know, but I've never heard.

495
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 8: So they're keeping it under wraps, as they should because

496
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 8: you know, conversations between jurors.

497
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 6: Need to be private. Wow.

498
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 8: I bet it will come out at the end of this.

499
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 8: But we'll see these three Alexander brothers, their former real

500
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 8: estate executives. They were on the cover of magazines for

501
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 8: making the literal biggest deals in the world. Selling properties

502
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 8: to the Kardashians and the like. And they're facing twelve

503
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 8: counts of a federal indictment that's conspiracy to commit sex trafficking,

504
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 8: and if convicted, they could each face fifteen years to

505
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 8: life in prison.

506
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 6: Interesting.

507
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 8: So it is with one of these jurors gone, only

508
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 8: two alternates remain.

509
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 6: I wonder if he saw the Epstein files.

510
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: These are three people who were allegedly using their power

511
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: and sexy lifestyle and big cities to do very very

512
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 2: bad things. Yeah, if what they're being accused of is accurate,

513
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: and they were also allegedly looking out for each other

514
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: and covering up for each other. So their day in

515
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: court was was frankly never going to be. It's pretty

516
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: astounding that they have this much victim testimony too against them,

517
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: because we know firsthand here how difficult that is. People

518
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 2: come out and they speak up and then are oftentimes,

519
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 2: you know, dismissed. So this is a case where victim

520
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: testimony is real and is not going to let these

521
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: boys get away with that necessarily if what they are

522
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 2: being accused of is true.

523
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 8: Right, and I mean they're you know, I got to

524
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 8: say I certainly.

525
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 6: Believe them. I don't know, who would want to sign

526
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 6: up for this, you know.

527
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 8: I'll give you an example. One of the victims, Melon Garrett.

528
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 8: She testified that she was seventeen at the time and

529
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 8: that she was drugged and raped by Alan Alexander in Aspen,

530
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 8: Colorado after meeting him at some club. The judge did

531
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 8: note that the jurors were hanging onto every word of

532
00:27:54,080 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 8: her testimony. Really but then on cross and listen, this

533
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 8: is the defendant's prerogative and what they must do. But

534
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 8: the you know, on cross examining, they questioned why the

535
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 8: victim hadn't resisted, more, hadn't said no, and it's a

536
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 8: victim seventeen at the time, emphasized her motive isn't financial

537
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 8: and that quote, they took something from me I didn't

538
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 8: really want to give, and now I want to take

539
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 8: something from them that I know they don't really want

540
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 8: to give.

541
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 2: And in some cases the drugs that are being pointed

542
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: to you literally have no free will, but you're kind

543
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 2: of awake. So just to add a layer to the

544
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: messed upness of what these if what they're being accused

545
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: of is accurate, very you know, on in their nose, handsome, successful,

546
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: affluent influential guys who could very easily go on to

547
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 2: a dating app and date anybody they want and have

548
00:28:54,840 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: really functional, wonderful, healthy relationships. However, instead their decided that

549
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: they're going to go out and maybe drug some girls.

550
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: So they have to have the memory of this experience,

551
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: but they can't actually have free will.

552
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 8: Well, Stephanie, you're almost verbatim describing another victim who testified,

553
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 8: Lindsay Acri, and her testimony included the fact her fact

554
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 8: that she was raped by Tal Alexander and another man,

555
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 8: so two of them in a Hampton's home back in

556
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 8: twenty eleven. And yeah, Stephanie, she described being paralyzed and

557
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 8: restrained and that her memory was like a flip book

558
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 8: with missing pages, which is what often happens with these

559
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 8: kind of drugs that the Alexander brothers are alleged to

560
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 8: have been giving people.

561
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: Oh wait, this is a drug that's also coming into

562
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: play in the Epstein Files. A conversation for a little

563
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: later date. Let's park that, but the idea of a

564
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: drug that could render you you helpless but not thoughtless,

565
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: so you'll remember it. Yeah, there's the good news is

566
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: your body will remember the trauma and you'll have nightmares

567
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: for your entire life. But in the moment, these perpetrators

568
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: won't have to, you know, bear witness to you putting

569
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: up a fight because you won't physically be able to

570
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: move your body.

571
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 6: That is so scary to me.

572
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 2: And by the way, let's just and then let's bring

573
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: in a few friends. Let's bring in some of our

574
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: buddies and our brothers. If what they're being accused of

575
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 2: is true, it's a gang.

576
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, and these I mean there was another. I mean,

577
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 8: the victims are really coming fast and furiously. Another victim,

578
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 8: Issa Brooks, testified that at sixteen, she was raped by

579
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 8: both tal and Alan Alexander at a party, and that

580
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 8: she witnessed other assaults.

581
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 6: I mean, there's so much.

582
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: And listen before we get too far ahead of ourselves,

583
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, we have not heard about your Valentine's date

584
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: lands Oh I know a WAYE dear husband loves Valentine's Day.

585
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: He's pretty good. He always loves your birthday.

586
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 8: Yes, holidays, date his wife is what he says, and

587
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 8: he definitely does date me. But I do have to

588
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 8: say a highlight of Valentine's Day was Friday when I

589
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 8: went to the gym, which applause for myself just making

590
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 8: myself get there.

591
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 7: No, I love that, And it was all.

592
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 8: Decorated with balloons, and I'm like, love yourself, Like I

593
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 8: was so happy.

594
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: That mad self. Love year, like Valentine's Day, can be

595
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 2: a lot of pressure for people, by the way. You know,

596
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Wade, her husband, they always do this thing,

597
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: or at least you used to. This is maybe pre COVID.

598
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: On Friday nights. When Courtney and I used to work together,

599
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: we used to share an office and then she would

600
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: go out on her Friday night date nights and they

601
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: would have a seafood tower. They would go to a

602
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: steak place that was like a Gergie steak place, and

603
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: then they would share a seafood tower on Friday nights.

604
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: And I thought that was so nice. It was just

605
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: like a great way to end the week. You know,

606
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: you're you're going on a proper date. And she would

607
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: always be excited and like dressed up and ready to rumble.

608
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 6: Dressed up. And we keep it.

609
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 8: I mean that we've been pretty religious about Friday nights.

610
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 8: Actually I'm married kind of a long time, but you know,

611
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 8: you get dressed up, you go and honestly, the key is,

612
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 8: if at all possible, go during happy hour and sit

613
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 8: at the bar.

614
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: Oh you're not your big tip. Yeah, they go look

615
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: at the seafood tower at the happy hour bar and

616
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: they have martini's, which I'm assuming you have martinis. Why, yes,

617
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: do you have a martini? Courtney?

618
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 6: Yes, I do.

619
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 8: I love a gin martini with blue cheese stuffed doll ups.

620
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 2: Good image in my head, that's what you would have ordered.

621
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: And it's like they call it bruised, which means extra icy.

622
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 7: Yes, like it exactly, so very classy. Yeah.

623
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 8: So and uh anyway, so Saturday, so on the actual

624
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 8: Valentine's Day, we stay at home, we cook together, made

625
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 8: a really fancy meal instead of going out, and watched

626
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 8: a movie.

627
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 6: So that's like a deal night for me.

628
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Sinners, but I love that movie.

629
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, since I ate and then laid on the couch,

630
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 8: I didn't get through in that movie too, that's excellent.

631
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, Sinners the movie, the music, I loved.

632
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 7: The music was phenomenal. That's one of.

633
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 6: The one movies I went and saw at the theater. Same.

634
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 9: Yeah, that was one of the few good Yeah, and

635
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 9: it's a good theater experience, because call it did you.

636
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: Just call it the theater.

637
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 7: Theater? Did you call it?

638
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: It's the French version. But yes, that's by the way,

639
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: Michael B. Jordan is the great I know.

640
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 9: And then you get a double whammy because he's playing

641
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 9: a twins twins?

642
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: How hard is that?

643
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 7: I know.

644
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 6: It's really good.

645
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 9: Everyone had a good Valentine's Mine was the most. Not

646
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 9: as the single guy in the group I did. I

647
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 9: went to a gay bar that had a Heated Rivalry

648
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 9: screening night.

649
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 7: So Rivalry, Yes, we all watched it. It was great. Yeah,

650
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 7: I mean I've seen it.

651
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 9: But they do the remixes of all the songs now,

652
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 9: and then you know, it's just a bunch of single

653
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 9: gay men watching hockey players.

654
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: We tell the audience about Heated Rivalry because they may not.

655
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 9: Know it's a series on HBO that just kind of

656
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 9: suddenly blew up. But it's about two hockey players that

657
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 9: are in the closet and there's a romance that blossoms.

658
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 9: So yes, that's just the painted overview. But I have

659
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 9: friends who work at HBO that told me that they

660
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 9: did not expect the show to blow up as much

661
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 9: as it did. It was actually like a little filler

662
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 9: that one guy said, like, how about this show they

663
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 9: put it in and they were it's now.

664
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 7: It's they did. It's gone crazy. But enough about that.

665
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 9: What I would love to talk about are some of

666
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 9: the d ms we've been getting because our audience.

667
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 7: They love us and the talkbacks, but they love us.

668
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 9: In dms, and Ava has been going through every single one.

669
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 7: Thank you so much, Ava for all of the hard work.

670
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 7: You're pretting so.

671
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 2: Good as our Katie KURRCT.

672
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 9: She's amazing, she's phenomenal, and she's picked out a few

673
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 9: good ones that she said she's gonna read to us.

674
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 5: So what you love to Okay, okay, here's the first one,

675
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 5: very topical. We're gonna start. We're gonna start topical. This

676
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 5: is from Sarah about Nancy Guthrie.

677
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 7: All right, she.

678
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 5: Said, Hi, the Nancy Guthrie disappearance has been mind boggling.

679
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 5: I wonder if they have accounted for her medication. If

680
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 5: it was a quote unquote inside job and they slowly

681
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,479
Speaker 5: sifted her meds so when they took her she would

682
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 5: have it, then they could release her a live and

683
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 5: get the ransom. Just curious if that's even a thing,

684
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 5: or if there's a way to track it.

685
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: Love the show. Do you do such a good job

686
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: like interpreting that, like you're creative acting during that reading

687
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: is very impressive. Thank you very much, Sarah. I hope

688
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: I did you justice well done.

689
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: Reported that has been reported that she had metation was

690
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 3: not with her. You know, we've seen the videos from

691
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 3: the family and you know, the releases from the sheriff's

692
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 3: office and whatnot, and they're very little information that we

693
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 3: do know. But one thing that they've made clear is

694
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 3: that she can't survive without her medication. So the assumption

695
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 3: here is that the medication was not taken. And in

696
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: previous articles reporting about this disappearance from like mass.

697
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 6: You know, media, they have said that the medication was

698
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 6: not taken.

699
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 2: So now to that end, though the medication's not that specific.

700
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 2: It's a kind of general kind of a medication that

701
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: you could get if you were plotting this being mindful

702
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 2: of what her activities would be. This would not be

703
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 2: a medication that's super hard to get. I think it's

704
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: for whatever her ailment is, it's a fairly common one.

705
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 2: So although very deadly and dire, it is possible if

706
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 2: somebody was really planning this correctly, this was something they

707
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: could get access to and that maybe she's thriving and

708
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 2: alive and well with said medication. But you would think

709
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: that would be a blueprint, right, Like there would be

710
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: some sort of a link that would be easy to

711
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: check in the greater Tucson area if people were filling

712
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: this medication in the either weeks leading up or in

713
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 2: the last two weeks. Has there been an influx at

714
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: one particular location for me, like, the medication is such

715
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: a tell in one of the biggest clues.

716
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 9: Well, I just I was just going to chime in

717
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 9: and say I agree with you, but looking at that

718
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 9: video footage of what we saw, doesn't seem like that

719
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 9: guy planned as much as you know, getting a plant.

720
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: This is the guy?

721
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 5: Is it?

722
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 7: Oh?

723
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,439
Speaker 2: So are we all assuming I'm this is a question

724
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 2: for the room, Okay, just a question for the room.

725
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 2: Is our assumption that the person that's on that ringcam

726
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: nest footage, the guy bumbling with a flower in his hand,

727
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: wearing the Walmart backpack and the very nondescript clothes, the

728
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: one that has a little bit of facial hair busting

729
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: through his weird scary ma ask that's like weirdly looking

730
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: at everything. Is this the guy that we believe has

731
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: abducted Nancy Guthrie and has her hidden somewhere as law

732
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 2: enforcement in the entire country slash world is looking for her.

733
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 2: I can't win my right mind. Imagine this is the

734
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: guy that we're banking this okay? Yeah? And if it is,

735
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: how do we not have her? Right?

736
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 6: And that's a good question, all right.

737
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 8: I don't think it's the only guy, is my theory,

738
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 8: because so I kind of feel like I agree with

739
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 8: both of you, because body, yeah, that's the guy.

740
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 6: What some other guys showed up at one?

741
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 2: Maybe there's more than one. Maybe this guy's the decoy.

742
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: By the way, have you guys ever, I'd be the

743
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: greatest decoy if we were all, if the three of

744
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: us were doing the theft, if we were, if Ed

745
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 2: was right and Courtney Armstrong was going to the Paris

746
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 2: Louver stealing jewelry, I would be the decoy in the

747
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: three of us. Right. So you get some bumbling knucklehead

748
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 2: who's taking a plan, putting it to the thing and

749
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: like causing a ruckus that is also alerting some sort

750
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: of ruckousness happening at this front location where this ring

751
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 2: camera slash next camera was removed. We don't know if

752
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: that was the beginning of this night. We don't know

753
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: if this is the end of the night. We don't know.

754
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: This was just happening. Simultaneously said this particular human was

755
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: not one of two or three, and he's the decoy.

756
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: He's the dumb dumb at the front ring camera that

757
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: they know at some point somebody is going to get We.

758
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 6: Do not know.

759
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 3: But what we do know is that they found a

760
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 3: glove with DNA and they're saying that the glove matches this.

761
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 3: It's the same kind of glove that's on that footage.

762
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 3: So maybe it will lead to the decoy.

763
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 9: If I think it's the guy, you think this one

764
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 9: guy is the one, Maybe I don't know.

765
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 6: I think it's very posible there's more than one.

766
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,879
Speaker 3: I think that, you know, But I do also when

767
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 3: I as soon as I say that, what comes up

768
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 3: in my head is that this is worldwide attention. If

769
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: there's more than one person, that runs the risk of

770
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,479
Speaker 3: somebody freaking out and starting to talk.

771
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 2: So holding, yeah, right, unfolding.

772
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: So I tend to believe it's one person, but I'm

773
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: open to it being two or three?

774
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: Producer Ava, are you.

775
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 5: Guys feeling more nancy or should we should we change

776
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 5: the subject?

777
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 6: Whatever you want? What do you do?

778
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 2: You decide, you shake it out.

779
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 5: Here's here's one that I'm interested in because there's a

780
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 5: there's a couple of couple of points being made here.

781
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 2: This is from Kristin.

782
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 5: Okay, first of all, love the show and don't know

783
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 5: how I'm going to get through Friday and Saturday without you.

784
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 6: Thank you, Kristin.

785
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 5: Then she says I can't save up the episodes due

786
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 5: to a lack of impulse control.

787
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: Then I have two questions.

788
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 5: One is there a difference between an abduction and a kidnapping?

789
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: Great question? Two?

790
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 5: Why are we paying to house Elane Maxwell?

791
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: Can we not extradite her?

792
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 5: All this talk about deporting dangerous criminals? Who is more

793
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 5: dangerous than this sociopath? And then she closes it out

794
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 5: with felicias.

795
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: In my head, Kristin is in my head. If I

796
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: were to leave a talk back, that would have been it, Like,

797
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: why are we messing around with Gulayane Maxwell. We're gonna

798
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: we're gonna be icing in all things, and Gilaine Maxwell's

799
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: gonna sit there in some weird khaki button up giving

800
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: me that top button and those weird glasses. Has she Oh,

801
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: I'm so not into Gilaye Maxwell. I cannot say it. No,

802
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: You're You're a hundred percent right. And she got the

803
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 2: sweetheart deal. He's living, you know, and carrying an umbrella

804
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: and drinking her tea, playing with the puppies after bedtime.

805
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 6: It's very annoying.

806
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 3: And I agree, let's get rid of her, like go

807
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 3: away somewhere else, Kristin.

808
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 8: I agree on all parts, and I really feel a

809
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 8: sisterhood in the lack of improse control scenario.

810
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: So I am with you step and step past.

811
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: Also, there's a difference between kidnapping and abduction, and there

812
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 3: is there is.

813
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: It's my understanding.

814
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 3: Kidnapping, you know, it's generally when somebody takes somebody by force,

815
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 3: right a threat, you know, or you know, holding somebody

816
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 3: by force, And abduction it's broader. It usually implies some

817
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 3: sort of coercion, like a luring or a fraud.

818
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: Which is funny. I thought abduction was age Oh, I

819
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: don't think so, right, Like I always thought kidnapping with

820
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 2: more for younger humans, no, and abductions were for older

821
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 2: by the way I'm just saying, like, how crazy that

822
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: I that's actually the categories I would put that in.

823
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 3: Well, because when you think of kid napping a kid,

824
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 3: right exactly, No, it's just by force.

825
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 8: But also abduction is, as you said, body often entice

826
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 8: someone away through fraud, through persuasion, and it is very

827
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 8: often a minor Yeah, but not necessarily, but it often.

828
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 3: Is when Yeah, and in fact, like if you take

829
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 3: your your say you're you're you have a kid and

830
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: you're divorced, right and your your husband has whole custody,

831
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 3: if you take the kid, you would think that would

832
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 3: be kidnapping, it's abduction. It often involved custodial stuff. So yeah,

833
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 3: but yeah, so there is a difference. Kidnapping is by force,

834
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 3: you know, threat, it's very scary. Abduction is also very

835
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 3: scary because it's manipulative, it's corrosion, it's uh done via

836
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 3: fraud or or something like that.

837
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this happening I made that connection. Yeah, I've

838
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: thought this multiple times. I'm so glad we just thought

839
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: that out.

840
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 7: Good.

841
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

842
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 8: One thing I learned right now because of that DM

843
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 8: is that in some jurisdictions, abduction is not always a

844
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 8: standalone punishable crime without kidnapping always.

845
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 2: Is, so yeah, because you can.

846
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 3: You can choose to go with somebody right, even though

847
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 3: they might have used fraud to get you to go

848
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 3: with them, You make the choice to do it right.

849
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 6: So sometimes it's not punishable, right, Can I.

850
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: Give it a little a little takeaway on a Sunday.

851
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 2: One interesting piece of information that I learned from working

852
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: in our jobs is having a safe word for your family.

853
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: So just like whatever the weird word is, it's pineapple

854
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: for example, So pineapple. So if your kids, your family,

855
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: your spouse, your mom, your grandmama, everybody in the family

856
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 2: knows this one word. So if somebody ever says, hey,

857
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: I'm coming to your school right now to pick you

858
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: up early because your mom's in the hospital and there's

859
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: nobody to pick you up, but the word is pineapple,

860
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: you would know that. Okay, we're in the safe zone.

861
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 6: Body, I'm not even kidding.

862
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 2: Tell us this story immediately I was I was walking

863
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 2: from first grade in Wasington Park, Michigan.

864
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 3: Okay, and this this brown like sedan pulled up and said,

865
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: your mom sent me to come pick you up.

866
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: Guess what.

867
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 3: We had a secret word, and it was super califragiclistic

868
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 3: xblocious for Mary, and I said, what's the code word?

869
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 2: And he drove away. I swear to Wow, I was

870
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 2: the day you became body moving. That is. I swear

871
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: you were smart enough to know that you have to

872
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: practice this with kids. Yeah, to practice it because it's

873
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: not an initial reaction either. And my promise a safe word.

874
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 7: Oh that's really good, but you give a challenging word

875
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 7: to use.

876
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: Their mom knew it was.

877
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 3: We were like super into like you know, want to

878
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: know those TV shows when we were kids.

879
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: And that was the secret word.

880
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 7: I love that.

881
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 3: I remember it believable, well nothing like well not nothing,

882
00:45:58,560 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 3: but like everything.

883
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 6: I remember it so clearly.

884
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 7: Wow.

885
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 8: Oh well, thank god that brown car ran away. Sasen

886
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 8: stick around because at the top of the hour, we

887
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 8: are having Jessica Kaplan. She's a licensed therapist and she's

888
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 8: joining us to break down some warning signs of domestic violence.

889
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 8: Very important and one victims are most at risk. Keep

890
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 8: you here at True Crime Tonight.

891
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

892
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker. I'm here

893
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: at Courtney Armstrong Body movement listen Stack's house. We have

894
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 2: Ava Kaplan, our daytime associate producer. We also have Taha

895
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 2: of course, our producer in the house, and then we

896
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 2: have Jessica Kaplan. We've been talking about this a lot,

897
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 2: just generally speaking about first of all, she's a family

898
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 2: and marriage therapist and has been here but for but

899
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: also just it's a heavy time, Jess. It feels as

900
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: though we're talking about some heavy topics. We're talking a

901
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 2: lot about grooming, sexual abuse, domestic violence, just things that

902
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: are an undercurrent that I sometimes fear we're getting desensitized

903
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: to because we talk about it so freely that a

904
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: we're talking about it so much that we're stretching what

905
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:32,879
Speaker 2: feels appropriate and then also not filling that space with real,

906
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: actionable good things that are healthy tools to make our

907
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: lives better. And Jess, that's where you come in. You're

908
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: smarts in your big brain. So here we go. Grooming.

909
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: We've been talking a lot about it, so we can

910
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: choose any category. But I fear that there's so much

911
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: in the Ebstein files specifically right now, that are pedophilia,

912
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 2: All these big things that seem abuse can happen in

913
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: very real, small micro ways, and I want to make

914
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 2: sure we're being mindful of that as well while looking

915
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: at some of these bigger things.

916
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 10: So well, I'm happy to be here, first of all,

917
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 10: so thank you for having me. And I'm also happy

918
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 10: to just break down a little bit maybe the different

919
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 10: definitions of different kind of abuse and then how those

920
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 10: might may or may not be linked to this idea

921
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 10: of grooming. And then I can also talk a little

922
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 10: bit more about domestic violence specifically, which is from what

923
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 10: we understand so far, is not what is happening with

924
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 10: the Epstein case. That seems to be as more and

925
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 10: more information is coming out having to do with miners,

926
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 10: sexual assault of miners, trafficking of miners. Anytime an adult

927
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 10: is sexually abusing in any way a child, that's pedophilia.

928
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 10: And yes, which is the techniques that pedophile uses to

929
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 10: attract and pull in their victim. Is this idea of grooming,

930
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 10: But grooming can also be applied to domestic violence behaviors.

931
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 10: And I think it's important to also just say I

932
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 10: think sometimes we get some terms confused. There's domestic violence

933
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 10: and then there's intimate partner violence.

934
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 4: Oh, intimate partner violence.

935
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 10: Is specifically between two people that are romantically involved, and

936
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 10: it can be any gender makeup of that couple, but

937
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 10: it's a romantic intimate relationship, and that's intimate partner violence.

938
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 10: Domestic violence is for any people and any people like

939
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 10: living either they're living under the same roof and they're there.

940
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 10: They may or may not be related, but if they're

941
00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 10: living together, it's considered domestic violence. And they don't necessarily

942
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,919
Speaker 10: they could be exes, so they may not be under

943
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 10: the same roof, but they may have a history of

944
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 10: a family or personal relationship, so they may be exes.

945
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 10: But if there's some sort of violent incident, that's a

946
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 10: domestic violence charge.

947
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: Even like roommates could be domestic violence.

948
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 10: Roommates, Yeah, yes, interested friends and co workers not consider

949
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 10: domestic violence, but if the friends are living in the

950
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 10: same house and their roommates, it's domestic violence. And also,

951
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 10: you know, intimate partner violence is to adults. Domestic violence

952
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 10: could include children, so it can be siblings, it can

953
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 10: be parents and children, and it can be the adults

954
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 10: in the house. Kind of that's like a domestic violence

955
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 10: is a big umbrella term for those things. So intimate

956
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 10: partner violence is kind of like a subset of domestic violence.

957
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 10: It's just when the romantic partners involved are having some

958
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 10: sort of violent exchange, it gets more specific and it's

959
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 10: called intimate partner violence.

960
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 8: So Jessica, and thank you for that, because I also

961
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 8: I had no idea of those distinctions.

962
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 6: So does that extrapolate to after involvement?

963
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 8: What comes to mind is the Spencer and Monique Tepe case. Now,

964
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 8: Spencer and Monique, they were murdered in their home. It

965
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 8: has come to bear that the man who's accused of

966
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 8: their murder is Monique Tepe's ex husband from nine years ago,

967
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 8: So that I.

968
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 4: Believe that would be considered domestic violence.

969
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: Yes really, yes, wow.

970
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 4: Yes, yep, because he think about it this way. It's

971
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 4: if you think about what.

972
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 10: The intention is behind the crime, it's usually a crime

973
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 10: of emotional passion of some kind. That's kind of what

974
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 10: makes it the domestic violent piece. So when you have

975
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 10: exes who are still emotionally invested in some way in

976
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 10: that person, even if they're not technically in a relationship

977
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 10: with them anymore, they still have those personal feelings towards them.

978
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 10: And it's those crimes of passion that you see between

979
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 10: people of you know, personal relationships that fuels the violent act.

980
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:44,399
Speaker 10: So oftentimes you see exes committing acts of you know,

981
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 10: domestic violence on their ex partners because many times there's

982
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 10: the ex that feels wronged by their ex partner, and

983
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 10: there's jealousy and rage that goes into committing that crime.

984
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 10: Which is a big part of domestic violence is that

985
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 10: that relationship and those emotions involved.

986
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 8: I understand, Jessica that you facilitated a group that involved

987
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 8: domestic violence.

988
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 6: Could you kind of explain what that was?

989
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 7: Sure?

990
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: Oh, it's such a good question.

991
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 10: So I practice in the state of Connecticut, so I

992
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 10: can only speak for Connecticut. I'm sure other states have

993
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 10: similar groups like this, but I'll just speak for the

994
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 10: Connecticut one, which is they offer for generally first time

995
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 10: offenders of domestic violence of some kind in order for

996
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 10: them to avoid jail time as part of their probation,

997
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 10: they can attend a group like the one.

998
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 4: That I facilitated. The one that I facilitated is called.

999
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 10: The Explore program, and it's for men who have committed

1000
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 10: domestic violence and have been charged.

1001
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 4: Against their partners. So this is strictly this particular group.

1002
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 10: Was intimate partner violence, not just general domestic violence, and

1003
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 10: they would have to come to my group for twenty

1004
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 10: six weeks WOW once a week for an hour and

1005
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 10: a half, and I co facilitated with another man. The

1006
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 10: two of us would co facilitate the group, and it

1007
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 10: was an open group, which means, as one person might

1008
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 10: be on their last few groups, new men were coming in,

1009
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 10: so it wasn't what's considered a closed group where everyone

1010
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 10: starts on the same day, goes through the same time,

1011
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 10: and ends, which actually is a really helpful way to

1012
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 10: structure the group because what happens over the course of

1013
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 10: those twenty six weeks is that the men who have

1014
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 10: been there for a long time, they've really started to

1015
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 10: get something out of the group. You see their emotional growth,

1016
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 10: You see them taking accountability and responsibility for what happened,

1017
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 10: and they kind of take on a big brother mentorship

1018
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 10: role in the group for the new guys that are

1019
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 10: coming in. So it works really nicely that way, and

1020
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 10: then the hope is that they stay the course of

1021
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 10: their twenty six weeks. They have to by the end

1022
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 10: of that time, be able to take responsibility, hold accountability

1023
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 10: for their role, and they have to be able to

1024
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 10: tell their story and all the events leading up to

1025
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 10: the event of the arrest in a way that displays earnest,

1026
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 10: authentic feelings of responsibility and accountability, and I think it

1027
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 10: does wonders for these men.

1028
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 8: All Right, I'm going to take body spot here actually

1029
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 8: because I have been dying. Yeah, and listen, if you're

1030
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 8: just joining us, this is true crime tonight. And we're

1031
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 8: all speaking with Jessica Kaplan, licensed marriage and family therapist,

1032
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 8: and she has specific expertise in talking about domestic violence.

1033
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 8: So can you walk us through the cycle of abuse?

1034
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 8: I feel like that's something we all hear about. What

1035
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 8: does that actually look like?

1036
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 7: Yes?

1037
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 10: So, the cycle of abuse is something that is commonly

1038
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 10: used as just a general framework of the pattern that

1039
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 10: is found in a large portion of abusive relationships. Side note,

1040
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 10: it's not perfect. There are definitely abusive relationships where this

1041
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 10: may not apply, But overall, it gives a pretty good

1042
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 10: idea for patterns to look out for. And you know,

1043
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 10: we were talking earlier about you know, whether if you

1044
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 10: ever see a friend or a loved one that you

1045
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 10: think maybe in an abusive relationship, or you're starting to

1046
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 10: consider that maybe you yourself are in one, this framework

1047
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 10: might help you to start to pay attention to those things.

1048
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 10: It's pretty simple, generally. It's just there's there's four parts

1049
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 10: to the cycle of abuse. The first part is rising

1050
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 10: tensions in the relationship. So this is usually typically a

1051
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 10: slow build of just feeling tension in the relationship, tension

1052
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 10: in the household. This like walking, you know, the victim

1053
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 10: feels like they're walking on eggshells all the time.

1054
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 4: Something's going to set him off. I'm going to use.

1055
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 10: He and him pronouns for the abuser because typically it

1056
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 10: is the man and these heterosexual relationships that are the abusers,

1057
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 10: which we can also talk to more about if you'd like,

1058
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 10: And I'll use she her program pronouns for the victim

1059
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 10: in my description. But so there's this building of the

1060
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 10: tension until finally reaches the fever pitch. Phase two is

1061
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 10: the explosion or the incident of the specific violent episode.

1062
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 10: Phase three is reconciliation, making up, I'm so sorry, you know, please, ologetic, yes, please,

1063
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 10: you know I made a mista, please, you know, please stay,

1064
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 10: gifts of afformation.

1065
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.

1066
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 10: And then phase four is sort of like the honeymoon

1067
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 10: period or the calm period, where everything sort of resets,

1068
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 10: kind of back to normal. There there's positive, kind of normal,

1069
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 10: drama free time in the relationship. The honeymoon phase slowly

1070
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 10: then starts to transition again into the tension building phase,

1071
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 10: and then we're back in the cycle. Usually in the

1072
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 10: early stages of an abusive relationship, the honeymoon period or

1073
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 10: the calm period lasts a really long time, and the

1074
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 10: tension building phase lasts a long time. Then there's the incident.

1075
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 10: But as people stay together longer and in an abusive

1076
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 10: relationship over time, the honeymoon period gets shorter and shorter,

1077
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 10: the tension building shorter and shorter, so there's much less

1078
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 10: time between violent incidents.

1079
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 2: And can I just jump in just as a real

1080
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 2: time working example, So, yes, you're in the honeymoon phase.

1081
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 2: People say the honeymoon phase so easily and often, and

1082
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 2: we actually picture being in Jamaica at a pool having

1083
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 2: you know, pina colada. The honeymoon phase is just also

1084
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 2: real life, right, It's real life without incident. It's real life,

1085
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 2: just going about jobs and dinner and drop offs or

1086
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 2: this or that. It's kind of real life. It's not

1087
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: so much it's not so much epic post that's right.

1088
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 2: Is that accurate?

1089
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 7: Yes?

1090
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 11: It's yeah, because I think sometimes people think the honeymoon

1091
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:34,919
Speaker 11: stage is supposed to be we're at a pool and

1092
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 11: we're waiting on each other because we're honeymooners literally, right,

1093
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 11: as opposed to where.

1094
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: We're functioning adults in a family and we're having dinner

1095
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 2: and we're putting away our groceries and we're paying our bills.

1096
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 2: But something is there's an undercurrent, Yes.

1097
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 6: Everyday life without that tension building, right, is that?

1098
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 7: Yes?

1099
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:00,080
Speaker 2: But I think that tension like there's also tension in

1100
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: life well, right, But.

1101
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 10: I think why it's given the honeymoon the honeymoon phase

1102
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:13,919
Speaker 10: title is because abusive relationships are inherently made up of extremes.

1103
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 10: There's just mostly there's highs and lows. It just it

1104
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 10: feels like there isn't a lot of stability and just

1105
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 10: kind of like baseline normal living. Like you're saying, Stephanie,

1106
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 10: you there's always like living off of the adrenaline rush

1107
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 10: and an edge to it, right, like the shoe could

1108
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 10: fall literally.

1109
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 4: So if there was this very violent incident.

1110
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 8: You know, I'm gonna pause right now only because we

1111
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 8: have to, but listen, stick around.

1112
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 6: We're obviously knee deep in this conversation.

1113
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 8: We are with Jessica Kaplan, who will be sticking around

1114
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,919
Speaker 8: and we're going to continue this conversation and then later

1115
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 8: we're going to talk about a little bit of self

1116
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 8: care and protecting ourselves. Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

1117
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1118
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Liidaker here with

1119
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Moven. Listen. By the way, if

1120
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 2: you've missed any of the show so far, please jump in.

1121
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 2: You can always catch us as a podcast right after,

1122
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 2: or you can join the Conversation live eight eight eight

1123
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 2: three one Crime, or keep them coming the talkbacks. You

1124
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 2: could always hit us up on our socials and leave

1125
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 2: us a talkback. So we're back with Jessica Kaplan, our

1126
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 2: favorite family and marriage therapist, who is just going to

1127
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 2: keep us a tinge sane. Jess it's real right now. Honestly,

1128
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 2: the world seems a little it's a little off pilter,

1129
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 2: right It's impossible not to catch. We're all catching the feelings.

1130
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 2: They're good, sometimes they're bad, and a lot of it

1131
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 2: is in very heavy categories. So in terms of domestic violence,

1132
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 2: violence in general, we a have a few questions, Courtney

1133
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 2: having one of them, but what do we do next?

1134
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 2: We're kind of entering this time that everything feels it

1135
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 2: all feels so intense.

1136
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 10: Well, I think a couple things are helpful around like

1137
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 10: wrapping our brains around the idea of domestic violence and

1138
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 10: trying to educate ourselves so that if we see someone

1139
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 10: that we really care about, someone we love, that we

1140
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 10: worry that they may be in a relationship where they're

1141
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 10: being harmed in some way, or we start to question

1142
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 10: whether we ourselves may be in a relationship that is

1143
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 10: like that. There are a couple of things that I

1144
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 10: think are important to remember, and that is that the

1145
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 10: defining theme of an abusive relationship is that the abuser

1146
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 10: is really just after power and control. All of the

1147
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 10: abuse and the dynamic is centered around him trying to

1148
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 10: gain power and control, and that can be through threats, intimidation,

1149
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 10: verbal abuse, economic power, using the children as pawns, coercion,

1150
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 10: on and on. Something that I think is important to

1151
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 10: note too is that because the abuser is wanting so

1152
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 10: much power and control, and usually the underlying reason for

1153
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 10: that is low self esteem, low self worth, being very

1154
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 10: very sensitive trouble regulating emotions, anger management issues, mental health issues,

1155
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 10: drug alcohol abuse, that the victim is at the most

1156
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 10: risk at the time where she is preparing or getting

1157
01:04:55,040 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 10: ready to leave or break up with the abuser, when

1158
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 10: he senses that this might be happening, or she even

1159
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 10: starts to engage in a conversation to end it or

1160
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 10: break up with him, or maybe they're in a fight

1161
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 10: and she's packing her stuff in front of him. This

1162
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 10: is when statistically she's most at risk of being assaulted

1163
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 10: violently by him, because it's in this moment that he

1164
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 10: starts to feel his grasp on her slipping. Remember, he

1165
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 10: wants control, he wants power, and everything that he's done

1166
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 10: up until this point to manipulate that is not working.

1167
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 10: So he starts to feel very, very, very desperate and

1168
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:46,959
Speaker 10: scared in that moment, and so that's when he'll act out.

1169
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 10: He'll go to the extreme in that moment because he's

1170
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 10: feeling so desperate. So most professionals, as I do, would

1171
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 10: recommend to any woman who is in a relationship like

1172
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 10: this and is considering leaving that she do a number

1173
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 10: of things. One is, if she's ever going to have

1174
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 10: a conversation with him, about ending the relationship, that she

1175
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 10: do it in a public setting a restaurant.

1176
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 2: A park, or that she has.

1177
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 10: A friend or a loved one with her while she

1178
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 10: has this conversation. Never to do it in the privacy

1179
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 10: of the home where it's just the two of them.

1180
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 10: And that might even require, depending on the situation, her

1181
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 10: not having the conversation with him at all and just

1182
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 10: waiting until he's at work or away for the day

1183
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 10: or the weekend, or on a trip, and while he's gone,

1184
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 10: she packs up her stuff and leaves and there's no

1185
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 10: conversation to be had. I also think it's important that

1186
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 10: when she's thinking about doing something like this that she

1187
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 10: get as much of a support system together as possible.

1188
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 10: So there's the National Domestic Violence Hotline. It's a national

1189
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 10: number that you can call her text and then they'll

1190
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 10: root you, most likely to your state's agency. So every

1191
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 10: state usually has their own specific agency, but the national

1192
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 10: hotline is just an easy one to call. You know,

1193
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 10: maybe you could put that information up on your website

1194
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 10: after that out and so she can get some guidance

1195
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 10: along the way. Sometimes if there's been other legal issues

1196
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 10: in the past and the police department already has been

1197
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 10: called to the house a few times, or maybe this

1198
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 10: isn't the first arrest. She can actually oftentimes ask the

1199
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 10: police officer from the local police headquarters in the town

1200
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 10: to come with her and accompany her to her home

1201
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:47,439
Speaker 10: while she packs up her stuff and leaves. So that's

1202
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 10: also something else that she could consider.

1203
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 6: That's idea.

1204
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 2: Yes, it's that moment when you say it's time to go,

1205
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 2: and you know that and it's time to pack your

1206
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 2: things and you got to go, and it's very, very dangerous.

1207
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: So you can actually tell your local authorities to escort

1208
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 2: you during that time period so you do not feel

1209
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 2: vulnerable in any way and that you're able to truthfully

1210
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:17,280
Speaker 2: escape what could be a really harrowing scenario. Such great

1211
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 2: advice across the board. Everything you have said is so good.

1212
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 10: Well, I think that the most important piece here is

1213
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 10: that she doesn't feel alone and isolated. That's usually a

1214
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 10: big influencing factor, and an abusive relationship is one of

1215
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 10: his tools to gain power and control over her is

1216
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 10: to slowly start to isolate her from friends and family.

1217
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 10: And so when she's in this place of thinking about

1218
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 10: leaving and making this big decision to have friends and

1219
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 10: family that can support her through this time and accompany

1220
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 10: her incredibly important.

1221
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 3: So well, thank you so much for that information that

1222
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 3: we're definitely going to be taking that forward.

1223
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 2: How great is Jess?

1224
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 3: No, it's great because there's some of the things that

1225
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 3: I didn't even know, like about the intimate relationship versus

1226
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 3: domestic violences, are all really really important tools that I'm

1227
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:17,799
Speaker 3: going to carry forward with my friends and family.

1228
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 6: So thank you for that.

1229
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 2: This is true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

1230
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 6: We're talking true crime all the time. We are right

1231
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 6: in the middle of talking to Jess Kaplan. She is

1232
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 6: a family therapist.

1233
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 3: She is our therapist, by the way, like she listens

1234
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 3: to all of our troubles and look at on all, right,

1235
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 3: look at us right, look at we're very well adjusted.

1236
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 2: Are we to post her children for that? I don't

1237
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 2: know that, Jess. I don't know. We had to consult

1238
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 2: with her first, right, But.

1239
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 3: Jess, we're gonna shift a little bit, right, That's what

1240
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 3: we're gonna do. We're gonna shift a little bit into

1241
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 3: some self care information. What are we going to be

1242
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 3: talking about?

1243
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 2: Give me the one down brand Yess.

1244
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 10: Okay, I thought there are a couple of things that

1245
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 10: I can quickly touch on and that until new information

1246
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 10: might be helpful. So I think that if we're feeling

1247
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 10: really overwhelmed and stressed in today's climate, and obviously, as

1248
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 10: you all know because you cover it five nights a week.

1249
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also cold. It's also freezing, and there's snow everywhere. Yes,

1250
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,759
Speaker 2: and it gets dark at noon. It's so too much.

1251
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:27,639
Speaker 2: So we're in the thick of it.

1252
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 10: Jess, Okay, so on, I'm going to just jump on

1253
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 10: the tails of what you just said about it being

1254
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 10: freezing and dark and cold out, because I think something

1255
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 10: that's good to think about is the idea of like

1256
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 10: what makes a human happy and in a good mood

1257
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 10: and what makes us feel kind of restored. Two things

1258
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 10: that are important in doing that are hormones neurotransmitters. Two

1259
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 10: that I think you probably have heard of that I'm

1260
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 10: going to touch on sarahtoe in, an oxytocin. So these

1261
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 10: are naturally occurring hormones in our bodies. Serotonin is the

1262
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 10: happy hormone, Oxytocin is the love hormone, and there are

1263
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:16,440
Speaker 10: ways for us to naturally increase the amounts of serotonin

1264
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 10: an oxytocin that we feel that directly affect our well being.

1265
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:29,240
Speaker 10: They help us feel happier, calmer, less stressed, more relaxed,

1266
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 10: and can give us that natural buzz that I think

1267
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 10: we're all always right. And it's interesting because there's a

1268
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 10: lot of overlap between what you can do that can

1269
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 10: increase both of these hormones in your system. So to

1270
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 10: your point stuff about it being dark and cold, So

1271
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 10: sunlight is such an important part of building serotonin in

1272
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:53,839
Speaker 10: our bodies.

1273
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:55,720
Speaker 2: I'm dying our brains.

1274
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 10: Yes, and if we're not getting enough suddenlight, that can

1275
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 10: inhibit our serotone production. That's why a lot of us

1276
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 10: feel a lower mood in the winter months. There's something

1277
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 10: called seasonal effective disorder, which is a very real thing

1278
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 10: during the winter months, and it's directly related to not

1279
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 10: getting enough sunlight. You only need fifteen to twenty minutes

1280
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 10: of sunlight, like on your face and in your eyes

1281
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 10: a day for it to be enough to make a difference.

1282
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 4: It does not have to be sunny out.

1283
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,760
Speaker 10: It can be cloudy and you can still be outside

1284
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 10: and get the benefit of daylight.

1285
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 4: So if you can.

1286
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 10: Sit on your front stoop for fifteen or twenty minutes,

1287
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 10: if you can literally sit by a window, whether you

1288
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 10: have a desk or a chair, and you can kind

1289
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 10: of have the light coming out.

1290
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 2: On you directly.

1291
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 10: Yes, but some people, and I've had a lot of

1292
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 10: clients who suffer with seasonal effective disorder, and it's been

1293
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 10: very helpful for them to get the like the artificial light.

1294
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 10: They look like little iPads, and they are not super expensive.

1295
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 4: I think you can get a good one for maybe

1296
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 4: thirty forty fifty bucks and you.

1297
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 10: Turn that on fifteen minutes a day and you let

1298
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,840
Speaker 10: it shine on your face and in your eyes during

1299
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:14,839
Speaker 10: these winter months, and it is a natural mood booster.

1300
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 2: I need to give a summer too.

1301
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 6: It's too hot. I live to be outside for fifteen

1302
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,599
Speaker 6: to twenty minutes. It's one hundred and twenty degrees. Ain't

1303
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 6: no way.

1304
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:26,240
Speaker 2: I know we're in an opposite world. You're one twenty

1305
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:29,679
Speaker 2: and I'm below twenty. And by the way, I think

1306
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 2: the clouds are raining on my parade and you're so

1307
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 2: bright and sunny that it's hot. It's too much. It's

1308
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 2: too much. Yeah, you need to go in the you

1309
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 2: need to be under an umbrella.

1310
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 4: Or you can just be in your air conditioning, but

1311
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 4: next to the window.

1312
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in sunglasses the vampire you. Yeah.

1313
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 8: Yes, I have to say as a good just to

1314
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 8: underline what you're saying, I've I've really tried to take

1315
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,000
Speaker 8: in like this knowledge that you're talking about and use it.

1316
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,719
Speaker 8: And actually, Stephanie, someone in your life turned me onto

1317
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 8: this a while ago that I've taken.

1318
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 7: Yes.

1319
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I physically go out my temperatures and nice.

1320
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 8: I'm in Los Angeles, but I just walk outside. I'm

1321
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 8: in my pajamas and I'm literally rolling my eyes around

1322
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 8: to get sunlight in and I feel, hand to God, i.

1323
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 6: Feel my mind like waking.

1324
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah.

1325
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 2: By the way, Courtney is very capable and sound. So

1326
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 2: Courtney also does she does do She does do meditation

1327
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 2: every day since the day I know her. I want

1328
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 2: to say, it's a bajillion years ago, so many lifetimes.

1329
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 2: I have never seen Courtney like throw her keys and

1330
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 2: be like and another thing like I would die. I

1331
01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 2: would like Courtney like took her keys and was like yeah,

1332
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 2: and I hate this day and through it I would

1333
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 2: fall to the ground giggling.

1334
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 4: There's her meditation. Is her daily meditation?

1335
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1336
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 2: He And a couple of times I'm like yeah, and

1337
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 2: Courtney's siding light. I feel let's here at court so

1338
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: I listen. I'm setting the stage for you to take

1339
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 2: full hero's lap of epic miss because she has said,

1340
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 2: by the way, today I into my meditation, So don't

1341
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 2: ride me. She's not messing those days. You don't want

1342
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 2: to screw around with Courtney on those days?

1343
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:25,320
Speaker 6: Uh huh.

1344
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: There's no like welcome to the package massacre. No, no,

1345
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 2: good for you, good for you. Yeah, she knows your boundaries.

1346
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:37,719
Speaker 8: And just saying, Jessica, like what you're saying, it works,

1347
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:43,160
Speaker 8: This stuff works. Are there anywhere rounding up quick? Any

1348
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 8: other very last things that you want to say to

1349
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 8: help us?

1350
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 10: Let me just yes, because we're we only have about

1351
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 10: a minute left. Just to just summarize, I'll just leave

1352
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 10: you with this. Whether you are trying to calm your

1353
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 10: nervous system, distress, improve your moods, refresh, restore, the most

1354
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 10: important things to remember. Are you want good nutrition, good sleep, sunlight, exercise,

1355
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 10: social connection. If you're doing all of those things on

1356
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 10: a somewhat regular basis, that's it. Those are the keys

1357
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 10: to being feeling mentally and emotionally well.

1358
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:31,879
Speaker 3: So eating well, sleeping well, being social, getting sunlight. Everything

1359
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 3: I don't do.

1360
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, don't look for mental health. I want

1361
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,560
Speaker 2: niquil immediately. I want to hug all of you instantly,

1362
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 2: and yeah, we can eat. What are we going to

1363
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 2: eat right now? Corny's the backfast start cooking for us, apparently,

1364
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: cheese and rice cakes.

1365
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:53,720
Speaker 4: Yes, magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin.

1366
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 10: D, trip foods with trip to fan, which is what

1367
01:16:57,840 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 10: we know. It's like in Turkey that makes people sleep,

1368
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 10: but there's lots of foods that have that in it,

1369
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 10: and it's a destress or relaxing ingredient.

1370
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 2: And I will say this as we wrap up. Jessica

1371
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 2: Kaplan is one of the greatest humans that just exists

1372
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 2: in this world. So we should take advice deeply. And

1373
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 2: jess thank you for making us happy and healthy and

1374
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,600
Speaker 2: come back very quickly. You're so welcome, We need it.

1375
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:25,719
Speaker 2: We love you so much.

1376
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:26,480
Speaker 4: Anytime.

1377
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 6: Yay, Jessica, thank you, thank you, thank you.

1378
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 8: And if anyone wants more information or want to learn

1379
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,719
Speaker 8: a little bit more about Jessica's work, you can visit

1380
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 8: Jessica Kaplantherapy dot com. Kaplin is with AK and stick

1381
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 8: around because next we're turning the tables and one of

1382
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:44,679
Speaker 8: our own is going to be in the hot seat,

1383
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 8: So stay tuned to find out who keep here True

1384
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:54,760
Speaker 8: Crime Tonight.

1385
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We've been

1386
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I wish you guys

1387
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:09,720
Speaker 2: could hear the commercial breaks, because again, we had Jess here.

1388
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:14,640
Speaker 2: We're all giving her scenarios and troubleshooting, and honestly, I

1389
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,679
Speaker 2: just I'm crazy for you guys. And here's why. There's

1390
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,240
Speaker 2: always a day that one of us is like on

1391
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 2: top of the world, and then there's another version of

1392
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 2: us that's hanging on for dear life. It's usually like there,

1393
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,719
Speaker 2: it's usually never all three of us, and then there's

1394
01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 2: some backup, right, So tonight I feel like collectively we're

1395
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 2: all feeling kind of caught because it's been a long week,

1396
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 2: and at the same time we're like, let's kick but

1397
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 2: this upcoming week anyway. So Ava, apparently last week when

1398
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 2: I was gone, you were doing some hard hitting questions

1399
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 2: to body specifically, and that they were so revealing, and

1400
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 2: I didn't hear it. So now I am in the

1401
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 2: hot seat.

1402
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 9: Yes you are, you want to explain, Yeah, yeah, And

1403
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,720
Speaker 9: it was actually because you weren't here, you might have

1404
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 9: gotten it a little. The info was switched a bit.

1405
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 9: But last week we did like just a deep dive

1406
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 9: with Body. I asked her a few questions that were

1407
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 9: tell me something about your past and how you got

1408
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 9: into true crime, just really getting to know because I thought,

1409
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 9: you know, we listened to everyone all the time.

1410
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 7: Let's get to know our hosts a little bit more.

1411
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 9: Well, a lot of listeners wrote back and said, I

1412
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:28,599
Speaker 9: love that you should do it with everybody. So we're

1413
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:30,799
Speaker 9: going to be going around and doing with each person.

1414
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:33,639
Speaker 9: But tonight, I thought, since we've got Ava here, Ava's

1415
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 9: going to be asking the questions, and Stephanie, you.

1416
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,679
Speaker 7: Are up now in the hot seat. Get ready.

1417
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 9: Ava wrote some questions, so I'm going to toss it

1418
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 9: over to her.

1419
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 2: Body is the best and you did so great on

1420
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,919
Speaker 2: your answers last time. So yeah, it was so interesting.

1421
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 5: Agreed, All right, Seth, I have six I want to

1422
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:55,400
Speaker 5: get through, so we're going to wrap up.

1423
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 2: Okay, Courtney Armstrong, you were in charge of cutting me off,

1424
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 2: which you can do with no stress. Okay.

1425
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:04,720
Speaker 5: So yeah, so my first question was why did you

1426
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 5: first want to work in the entertainment industry?

1427
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 7: What drew you to it.

1428
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 2: I feel like all of you can relate that we

1429
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 2: were all kind of black ky kids. I watched way

1430
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:18,759
Speaker 2: too much TV. I watched way too many TV shows

1431
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 2: day and night, and talk shows were sort of my thing.

1432
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 2: If it wasn't Donahue, it was Sally Jesse, Rafael and Oprah. Oh, Like,

1433
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 2: this was my nerdy scenario. I would come home home school,

1434
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 2: I would eat a Snickers bar, the entire Snickers bar,

1435
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,400
Speaker 2: which we can like just go from there what that

1436
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 2: looked like. And then I would watch whatever talk shows

1437
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 2: back to back. Sometimes it would be Donahue and then

1438
01:20:48,920 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 2: Sally Jesse, Raphael, and then I would watch you know,

1439
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 2: obviously Oprah, and then I would watch Ricky Lake. Oh

1440
01:20:55,479 --> 01:21:00,000
Speaker 2: so yeah, Yeah. I was at the Ricky Lake audience

1441
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:02,800
Speaker 2: ones and I asked a question. I stood up and

1442
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 2: like actually asked a question of an abusive husband.

1443
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:06,599
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1444
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to go look for that footage that a

1445
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:13,480
Speaker 3: young Stephanie Leidecker.

1446
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 2: And she looks exactly the same edge of hair.

1447
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 6: I can't wait to see it.

1448
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,600
Speaker 5: So you've made, You've made this amazing career in the

1449
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:22,840
Speaker 5: entertainment industry.

1450
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 2: You're your self made. And I know you.

1451
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 5: Also you don't really talk about him that much, but

1452
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 5: you have a wonderful son, Austin, who we all know.

1453
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 5: And I think a lot of us, including some of

1454
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 5: us on our team, I know a lot of our

1455
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:38,240
Speaker 5: audience is wondering kind of if you have any advice

1456
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 5: or thoughts on just how you've managed to be a

1457
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:43,840
Speaker 5: mom and also like have a really strong career at

1458
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 5: the same.

1459
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:47,679
Speaker 2: Time that question, I love this question.

1460
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 6: A lot of them want to know the answer to

1461
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 6: this stuff.

1462
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, honest, I've never really answered this totally well or

1463
01:21:56,360 --> 01:21:59,800
Speaker 2: even that directly, So I'm gonna like search a little

1464
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:02,639
Speaker 2: bit for the right answer here. Okay, I will say this.

1465
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 2: I was never someone who felt as though like there

1466
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 2: was this clock in me. I've always been a little bit.

1467
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 2: I love work.

1468
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:10,720
Speaker 5: I do.

1469
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,599
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit of a workaholic. Sometimes that gets

1470
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 2: held against me. I do. I love what we get

1471
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 2: to do every day. Right now, we're in like all

1472
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:22,639
Speaker 2: things crime. But there were other stages of my career

1473
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 2: that I was all in and whatever that stage was right.

1474
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 2: So I believe I always felt like sometimes like having

1475
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 2: a child of kids, like I saw it. I always

1476
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 2: love kids, and I was a babysitter, and I didn't

1477
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 2: see that work out well. Honestly, I felt like it

1478
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 2: was a choice, like you could either work or you

1479
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 2: could be a mom. I actually know you could do both,

1480
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:51,719
Speaker 2: right or do there is zero chance that I didn't

1481
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,360
Speaker 2: feel as though in my world that that was an

1482
01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 2: option to do both greats. In fact, when I found

1483
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 2: out when I was pregnant, I told a dear friend

1484
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 2: at work. By the way, I was so I was

1485
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 2: at work and I was like, I was absorbing it.

1486
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:08,679
Speaker 2: It was like the greatest surprise ever. So I say

1487
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,599
Speaker 2: to my work ally his name is Ryan Abbott. Ryan,

1488
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 2: you can't tell anybody, but I'm pregnant. And he goes,

1489
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 2: oh my god, You're never going to work again. And

1490
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 2: I was like, I know what am I going to do?

1491
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:24,639
Speaker 2: And like it wasn't He wasn't. No, No. We had an

1492
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 2: moment of the truth of my work was never going

1493
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 2: to be the same. And it's true, by the way,

1494
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 2: and it's true. And here's what's also true. Every decision

1495
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 2: that I made from that point forward, which was because

1496
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 2: I was a mom, I was like, this is on

1497
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:44,600
Speaker 2: the menu, or it's not on the menu. Traveling for

1498
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 2: thirty days to work on a love show, and the

1499
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 2: Caribbean is not on the menu any longer. So whatever

1500
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:55,320
Speaker 2: the menu is now is very black and white. And frankly,

1501
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 2: I will say this, it has made my life decision

1502
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 2: making so much easier and greater. And my life has

1503
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:06,799
Speaker 2: only started when I started being very black and white.

1504
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:07,200
Speaker 1: Is it?

1505
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:09,120
Speaker 2: Is it good for mom? Is it bad for mom?

1506
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 2: Katie Studios is kitchen Table? It was based on Courtney

1507
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:16,719
Speaker 2: and I met because we were moms, and I was like, hey,

1508
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,559
Speaker 2: I'm a mom. Don't tell anybody, but I know you were.

1509
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:25,599
Speaker 2: Well we would like trade secrets and be like, listen,

1510
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,640
Speaker 2: you're gonna work all the time and I'm going to

1511
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:29,439
Speaker 2: work all the time, and we're going to like cancel

1512
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,959
Speaker 2: each other out when we have to like do moms

1513
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:37,559
Speaker 2: and like we're cool. And it was and is, but

1514
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 2: that is the truth of it. Like you need to

1515
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:43,920
Speaker 2: find your people and you can switch gears. I switched

1516
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 2: gears because I became a mom.

1517
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 12: Wow, but you ended up being so successful by the

1518
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 12: way I would have been in a different life, Yeah,

1519
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:56,760
Speaker 12: I would not have had kids by the way I love.

1520
01:24:57,600 --> 01:24:59,759
Speaker 2: I didn't know that. I'm not pushing children on anybody.

1521
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,720
Speaker 2: I don't think this is a thing. It was not

1522
01:25:02,760 --> 01:25:06,879
Speaker 2: on my menu. So I think it's like you can't lose. However,

1523
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 2: I think you can switch. Yeah, And I think people

1524
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,120
Speaker 2: really get stuck on the idea. And I had this

1525
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:16,639
Speaker 2: in my own family, like my dad. You can't switch

1526
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 2: your career, you can't switch your money income, right, I

1527
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 2: actually think you can.

1528
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's an amazing point.

1529
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:27,680
Speaker 8: Go ahead, okay, And I just want I will not

1530
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 8: take up your time except to say having born witness

1531
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:36,240
Speaker 8: to Stephanie Eddie in her career acceleration, which is unbelievable,

1532
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 8: and also just watching her with Austin from when he's

1533
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 8: in a.

1534
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 6: Stroller and now he's holler than her.

1535
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 8: You just you interweave things very well, and Austin was

1536
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 8: always a part. And then you're also Stephanie's exceptional at

1537
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 8: focusing on what is in front of her and being

1538
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 8: so present, and that is a thing that I really

1539
01:25:58,320 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 8: gleaned from you.

1540
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,439
Speaker 2: By the way, opposite truth, I can't think ahead. Courtney

1541
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,840
Speaker 2: is always ten steps ahead, right, So, by the way,

1542
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:08,080
Speaker 2: that is a perfect I don't know the answer on this,

1543
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 2: This is not a perfect answer. You're either in the

1544
01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:14,200
Speaker 2: moment or you're thinking ahead. You have to kind of

1545
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:18,679
Speaker 2: do both right, Like there's no right or wrong answer there,

1546
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 2: and it will change. So if you're somebody who's like, hey,

1547
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:25,160
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of family, but I don't want to. Ay, Okay,

1548
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 2: Hey I'm having a family, but it's really hard right now,

1549
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 2: it will change. Grace. Give yourself some grace and surround

1550
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 2: yourself with people who love you equally and light up.

1551
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 2: And Courtney, I'm sureng was one of them for me

1552
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 2: as a mom.

1553
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, Wow, they end.

1554
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:42,439
Speaker 5: I love hearing that. I honestly could hear you talk

1555
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 5: about this for an hour. I want you to make

1556
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:46,799
Speaker 5: like a mommy podcast. But we're going to switch yours.

1557
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 2: I hate that podcast. By the way, we would have

1558
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 2: not enjoyed that badcast like that was in my podcast.

1559
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 2: We're going to switch gears or irrelevant.

1560
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 5: Of all the true crime cases you've covered, either on

1561
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 5: this show or on any of your other which one

1562
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 5: has really stuck with you the most?

1563
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 7: And why?

1564
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 2: Pithon the piked In massacre. Yeah, the Pie County murders,

1565
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:12,400
Speaker 2: eight victims, most of the same family, the road and family,

1566
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 2: and then Hannah Gilly that I think that case and

1567
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 2: I can speak I know for sure on Courtney's behalf

1568
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:22,280
Speaker 2: as well. I would say that case hit us in

1569
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 2: a way that is not normal. I don't know that

1570
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 2: that is the one for reasons I cannot describe. It

1571
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 2: has affected my world in life and my view on

1572
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 2: the world in a way that I cannot describe. And

1573
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 2: I think about Pike County every single day period hard stop.

1574
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 6: Wow.

1575
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 5: I know I was just speaking with Whitney earlier, who

1576
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:49,360
Speaker 5: I know you met through making that podcast, and it

1577
01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 5: made me realize I've actually Amarsson confession never listened to it.

1578
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 5: So that's gonna be my to do list for this week.

1579
01:27:56,320 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 2: By the way, So we started Katie Studio, started at

1580
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:03,720
Speaker 2: my kitchen table, which was in an apartment complex, and

1581
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:06,720
Speaker 2: we started doing a podcast. And I think I've told

1582
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 2: the story before, but it's worth saying again because Courtney Armstrong,

1583
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 2: who was and is a tremendous producer, She's just like

1584
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:17,639
Speaker 2: a doer and a person who like makes things happen

1585
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 2: in consolidacy.

1586
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:23,880
Speaker 8: If this is your interview, we'll get let's go to

1587
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:24,799
Speaker 8: the next question.

1588
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:26,599
Speaker 2: Actually, that is a great call I.

1589
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 5: Have because I have something I really want to ask

1590
01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:31,400
Speaker 5: that's similar. There's some big things you're you kind of

1591
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 5: move in silence as the as the young folks like

1592
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:36,320
Speaker 5: to say. I know you have some big things kind

1593
01:28:36,320 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 5: of coming down, coming down the whatever the expression is.

1594
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 2: I was wondering, what is the.

1595
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 5: Expression pipeline should all your fans be looking out for

1596
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:47,160
Speaker 5: in the coming months? What kind of stuff do you

1597
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 5: have on the docket?

1598
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:48,719
Speaker 1: Ah?

1599
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:52,320
Speaker 2: All things Well, Murder one oh one, which we had

1600
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:57,560
Speaker 2: talked about briefly, that premiere at sun Dance three Hours

1601
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 2: on Amazon Prime will be premiering this summer around July fourth,

1602
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 2: and we're hoping for more of that. Honestly, it'sok a

1603
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:08,040
Speaker 2: really beautiful look at a teacher in a class in

1604
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 2: young minds and just you know, I think sometimes we

1605
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:15,160
Speaker 2: talk in crime, which is sometimes backward, right, we're talking

1606
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:17,599
Speaker 2: about like a terrible thing, and then we go backward,

1607
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 2: and in this case for Murder one on one, we're

1608
01:29:20,520 --> 01:29:25,679
Speaker 2: talking about forward. Take young minds. It's just an example

1609
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:29,559
Speaker 2: of we're so much greater together. Also on the podcast front,

1610
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 2: hush money, I am really Our next podcast is called

1611
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:38,960
Speaker 2: hush money. Okay, so all I can talk about is

1612
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 2: hush money. Honestly, it's like what I think about when

1613
01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:49,759
Speaker 2: I'm driving in the car or aside from the news

1614
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 2: of the day that we're talking about real time, we

1615
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 2: get to be together all day. I'm having conversations with

1616
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 2: every single one of you in my head all day.

1617
01:29:57,479 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 2: And then as my other default is the about hush many.

1618
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:04,680
Speaker 8: Oh my gosh, it's a great title.

1619
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:06,679
Speaker 2: Very fantastic. Okay.

1620
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,160
Speaker 5: Another question, what is a non professional goal you have

1621
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:11,160
Speaker 5: for twenty twenty six?

1622
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:15,960
Speaker 6: Oh, flowers from your Valentine.

1623
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 2: I know that's so yeah, I would like in twenty

1624
01:30:21,280 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 2: twenty six. That's a great question. I want more work,

1625
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,320
Speaker 2: so I got don't want to change too many things.

1626
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 2: I did not want to tree my house. I want

1627
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:33,400
Speaker 2: mother nature to stop it. And I want to play

1628
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:35,559
Speaker 2: a little bit. I want to dance on a table.

1629
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,560
Speaker 2: I want to be a little bit. I would like

1630
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,760
Speaker 2: like a sliver of my nightmare self version of me.

1631
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 2: That's like, seriously, can I tell you the greatest story ever?

1632
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 8: Like?

1633
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:48,120
Speaker 2: I want that version.

1634
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:49,599
Speaker 6: I want that vision too.

1635
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,000
Speaker 2: We gotta make it. I like, I want just like

1636
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:56,760
Speaker 2: a scandalous tale to tell I just I am. I'm

1637
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:59,400
Speaker 2: not that fun right now. I'm so serious. I want

1638
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 2: some sauce and some chips. Yes, And I was like

1639
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:05,799
Speaker 2: I'm like, hold the salt, make it stable.

1640
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:09,680
Speaker 6: Yes, this story to tell you ever that would be

1641
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 6: I'm like.

1642
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:14,360
Speaker 2: Guys, I'm so sorry, I'm late, but it's so worth it.

1643
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 2: I have to be able to start every night that way.

1644
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 2: So every story in my head should have a start

1645
01:31:21,760 --> 01:31:26,000
Speaker 2: that's like not I'm here for it, and like the

1646
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:28,679
Speaker 2: nonsense that's like the real world. But like I want

1647
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 2: to be like, oh my god, guys, I'm so sorry,

1648
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:36,200
Speaker 2: but my miscara is all done. I've been a nightmare. Yes,

1649
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 2: that's great.

1650
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:40,640
Speaker 5: Last question right before we have to end, can you

1651
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:42,800
Speaker 5: tell us a little bit about where the idea for

1652
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 5: True Crime Tonight came from and kind of the origin

1653
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 5: of our show that we do together.

1654
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:50,920
Speaker 2: I love it. Okay, So it's so many years it

1655
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 2: might be three years ago, Courtney Armstrong, correct, Yeah, it is.

1656
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 6: It is that long ago.

1657
01:31:56,040 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 7: Okay.

1658
01:31:56,360 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 2: So Tom Pulman of iHeart Fame. Tom had said, hey, look,

1659
01:32:01,360 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 2: I want to talk about doing a true crime channel

1660
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 2: for iHeart and they've you know, we've done podcasts for

1661
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 2: them and always such a tremendous partnership. And he said it,

1662
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:14,960
Speaker 2: and then True Crime Tonight was like the next day

1663
01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 2: pitchback and we have been talking about True Crime Tonight

1664
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:21,719
Speaker 2: for many years, honestly, like you guys have been witnessed

1665
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:23,480
Speaker 2: to it. I was almost embarrassing.

1666
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I handed my plane because I'm the pilot somehow

1667
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 3: in this vision from Malaysia. Just finished the mole and

1668
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:34,599
Speaker 3: I have a meeting the next day with Katie Studios

1669
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 3: to talk about tonight. That's how long ago this was,

1670
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:39,639
Speaker 3: I mean, and it's like been one.

1671
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:41,320
Speaker 6: It's coming. I swear it's coming.

1672
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:44,680
Speaker 2: It was a couple of years of And Courtney is

1673
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:49,880
Speaker 2: nodding right now because she listened. Yeah, True Crime Tonight. Yeah,

1674
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 2: Tom Pullman, three years and many more to come. Well,

1675
01:32:53,880 --> 01:32:54,639
Speaker 2: thank you so much.

1676
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 5: I wish we did a whole hour of this, honestly,

1677
01:32:57,439 --> 01:32:58,640
Speaker 5: but thank you for answering.

1678
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 4: Thank you guys for having me Cortnell pass.

1679
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 7: It to you.

1680
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 2: To goodness.

1681
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 8: Well listen, that's it, Stephanie. You did amazing in the

1682
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:14,040
Speaker 8: hot seat. And I think it's time to say good night.

1683
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:14,760
Speaker 6: Dare I say it?

1684
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 7: I hate that it all has to come to an end.

1685
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:20,720
Speaker 9: But tomorrow we're going to be talking a little bit

1686
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:23,799
Speaker 9: more about Nancy Guthrie and keeping up with what's happening

1687
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:27,519
Speaker 9: with that and I know where is Nancy. And then

1688
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:29,479
Speaker 9: we're also going to be talking with the latest twist

1689
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 9: with the Alexander brothers and that whole horrific sex trafficking case.

1690
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:37,640
Speaker 7: So lots of good stuff for tomorrow. We love you,

1691
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 7: Thanks everyone, Night,