1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This guy with a long 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: gray beard has just been charged with the murder of 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: a top Hollywood TV director, a cold case that has 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: baffled cops for thirty five years. Which you've done this murder? 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: Though it's possible, anything's possible. The murder victim, Barry Crane 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: directed some of television's most iconic shows in the nineteen 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties. Dallas, Hawaii Five, Mission Impossible, Wonder Woman, 8 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: and many of his other shows are still in reruns 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: to this day. The fifty seven year old director was 10 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: found by a housekeeper dead in his garage in his 11 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: studio city townhouse north of Los Angeles. He was naked 12 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: and wrapped in blankets. He'd been bludgeoned by a large 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: ceramic statue and been strangled with a telephone cord, and 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: there was evidence inside that a struggle had taken place. Man, 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: what a way to go this iconic director. Did you 16 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: hear those theme songs Wonder Woman? All the great hits 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: of that era? He was the director and his found strangled, dead, 18 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: naked and wrapped up and rug I means he Grace, 19 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. What happened to Barry Crane and 20 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: has the case been cracked after all these years. I mean, 21 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: you'd think in a town like Hollywood, with all the 22 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: gossip going on, this case could have been solved a 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: long time ago, but not necessarily straight out to John Linley, 24 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, tell me about the murder. 25 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: A housekeeper actually found the body of a fifty seven 26 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: year old man dead in his garage in his Studio 27 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: City townhouse. This was July fifth, nineteen eighty five. The 28 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: man was completely named kid and had been wrapped in bedsheets. 29 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: It was later determined that he had been beaten with 30 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: a large ceramic statue and strangled with a telephone cord. 31 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: Investigators also soon came to the realization that he was 32 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: not murdered in the garage, but that his body had 33 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: been moved from his townhouse hold. That thought, Wendy Patrick, 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: California prosecutor, this is in your backyard. Wendy Patrick, author 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: of Red Flags. You can find it on Amazon. Let 36 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: me just said several things that caught my attention. I've 37 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: only got a couple of citizens out of him so far. 38 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: But the victim, Barry Crane, number one, very very popular 39 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: high paid, You know that rolling in money from directing 40 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: all those TV hits. But listen to this killed in 41 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: one spot then dragged to the garage now right there. 42 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: That tells me this is not random Wendy. Because if 43 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: money breaks in, let's just say, to steal your money 44 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: and your TV or whatever they can get their mits on. 45 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: They don't take the time to roll you up and 46 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: rug and hide your body. They get the hay out 47 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: of their Wendy. So already I've got an idea of 48 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: where this is headed. Yeah, Nancy, you know, and especially 49 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: when you talk about cold cases, when we try to 50 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: warm them up, it is details like John Linley just 51 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: so eloquently described that make a big difference. Is why 52 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: do you have a murder in one area and then 53 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: a movement to another. And although you and I are 54 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: now your listeners probably know you don't need to prove 55 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: motive motive matters to a jury. They want to know 56 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: why would somebody do this, especially given that you know 57 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: the beloved status of this man. Apparently he was just 58 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: involved in so many interesting not only productions, but also 59 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: his personal life was interesting as well. Did he make 60 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: some enemies along the way? Was this somebody that wanted 61 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: to make it look like something else happened. So absolutely, 62 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: details like this matter. That's why we say the devils 63 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: are in the detail, and this is how this case 64 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: is being put together. He said something earlier, John Linley, 65 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: that he was beaten with a ceramic statute and strangle 66 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: with a telephone cord. Bobby Chicone, that tells me. Also, 67 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone with me FBI special agent that while it 68 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: was someone that took the time to stage the scene, 69 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: it was also someone that used what was available to 70 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: them in the home. In other words, they didn't come 71 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: in with a gun, they didn't come in with a knife, 72 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: they didn't come in with a murder weapon. They used 73 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: what was there. So it sounds like a crime of 74 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: opportunity or anger, but someone that knew him because they 75 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: staged the scene after. Can you verbalize where I'm headed 76 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: on this, Bobby Chicone Absolutely, Nancy, I think you're exactly right. 77 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: I think that the indications are to me, based on 78 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: the crime scene, that there was a relationship between these two, 79 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: some type of relationship. They knew each other. Um, you know, 80 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't a premeditated robbery. It wasn't And because if 81 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: you go into someone's house to rob them, you don't 82 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: wrap them up in a carpet. Um. I believe he 83 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: was naked, so, you know, there seemed to be some 84 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: kind of, um, either personal friend relationship between these two. Um, Okay, 85 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: that's some kind of friend if he's naked. I don't 86 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: know what kind of friend you're referring to. But what 87 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: they'd say was more than just a friend. But go ahead, 88 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, we don't. We don't know why the 89 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: clothes were removed, you know, Um, it could have been 90 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: a friends accountment. You know, you just don't know at 91 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: this point. Um, but there was clear um that they 92 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: may have been trying to get rid of the body. 93 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: They may have been a plan to take the body 94 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: out of that home. Maybe that plan was interrupted. Why 95 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: wrap a body in a rug or carpet and then 96 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: leave it at the scene of the crime. Back to 97 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: John Linley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, Okay, I 98 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: believe you left off where he had been murdered in 99 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: one part of the home and dragged to the garage. 100 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: I think it's what you said. You told me he 101 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: was blooded with a ceramic statute, but strangle dead, strangulation 102 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: my ligature was the cod cause of death with a 103 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: phone cord. What was very interesting to investigators were what 104 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: was missing from the home and the garage where his 105 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: body was found. His brand new Cadillac was gone, and 106 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: his wallet. There were no other signs of additional burglary though, 107 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: or even forced entry into that studio city home. No 108 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: forced entry, no burglary, although going in and leaving with 109 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: the wallet would qualifies burglary. Wendy Patrick, Yeah, you know, 110 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: that's one of the things you look at, is what's missing, 111 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: what was the intent going in. Obviously we have several 112 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: different felonies here that would make the case for burglary, 113 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: but there's just some of the other facts, you know. 114 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: Then John Linley points out one of them, no forced entry. 115 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: The big suspects are going to be his circle of friends, 116 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: his circle of acquaintances, those whom he may have invited 117 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: fight it over, or whom he may not have felt 118 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: uncomfortable welcoming into his home. And you also have to 119 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: wonder how many people knew where he lived. We're welcome 120 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: his house guests, so they're narrowing in on those that 121 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: were closest to him, which of course is where we 122 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: always start when we have a murder, but it's just 123 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: interesting when you do have the movement, why and how 124 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: does that play into what the motive ultimately will be. 125 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: Those will be the facts that we're going to be 126 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: looking at next. You know, it's not a garage apartment, 127 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: as I said earlier, Lemley's right. It was a townhouse 128 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: with a garage attached to it. And it's his studio city, 129 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: which is a really expensive area. I recall doing when 130 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: we were on Dancing with the Stars that Neck of 131 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: the Woods studio city not too far from that, and 132 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: that's where a lot of stars and Hollywood executives live 133 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: because it's so close to all the studios, isn't that right, Wendy, Well, yeah, 134 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: And that's one of the other things that you look 135 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: at is geography always matters. And you know, when you 136 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: look at these types of things and try to figure 137 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: out who would have had access, who would have known 138 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: where he lived, and all the rest of it. These 139 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: are the kind of things that make these cases so 140 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: interesting to put together, as you and I know, Nancy, 141 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: but also so important when you point this chronology and 142 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: timeline out for a jury. This is going to not 143 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: only help prove motive, but also help prove the case 144 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable time Stories with Nancy Grace, a whole 145 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: case that has battled cops for thirty five years. The 146 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: murder victims. Barry Crane directed some of television's most iconic 147 00:08:53,360 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: shows in the nineteen seventies and eighties, Dallas, Why You Five, Oh, 148 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: Mission Impossible, Wonder Woman, and many of his other shows 149 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: are still in reruns to this day. The fifty seven 150 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: year old director was found by a housekeeper dead in 151 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: his garage in his studio city townhouse north of Los Angeles. 152 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: He was naked and wrapped in blankets. He'd been bludgeoned 153 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: by a large ceramic statue and been strangled with a 154 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: telephone cord, and there was evidence inside that a struggle 155 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: had taken place. Thirty years later, How do they think 156 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: they've matched up a guy eighteen at the time of 157 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: this iconic director's murder. Take a listen to our frenzy KABCTV. 158 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: Everybody knew Barry, and all of a sudden his maid 159 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: finds him wrapped up in his sheet. Bloody is garage. 160 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: So it was a terrible story. The FBI says they 161 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: were able to match Hyat's DNA on cigarette bunts in 162 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: North Carolina with DNA on cigarettes found in Barry Crane's 163 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: stolen car back in nineteen eighty five. Do you not 164 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: remember what happen in nineteen eighty five? I have a 165 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: really good memory of bits and pieces that were brought 166 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: back to me just by suggested. Would you have done 167 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: this murder in Adibot? Anything's possible back then, because No, 168 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: I was big. I was big into drugs. Ella County 169 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: District Attorney Jackie Lacy announced murder charges today in Hyatt, 170 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: now awaits extradition back to La. Wow. How did they 171 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: go about matching up cigarette butts in North Carolina to 172 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: a thirty year old cold case in LA How did 173 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: they do it? John Lemley? As you well know, Nancy, 174 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: more and more cases these days are being solved by 175 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: DNA and the guys. The investigators back in nineteen eighty 176 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: five had the sense of mind to among the things 177 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: they gathered evidence wise pick up some cigarette butts that 178 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: were lying in that stolen Cadillac from Barry Crane's garage, 179 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: and then through more detective work now in twenty eighteen 180 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen, they were able to take some discarded 181 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: cigarette butts that this man, mister Hyatt threw away and 182 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: low and behold a DNA match. But wait a minute, 183 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, you have 184 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: to have a reason. Yes, you may have the cigarette 185 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: butts in the Cadillac, you may have fibers or fingerprints 186 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: or DNA inside the bed sheets in which the victim 187 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: was wrapped, But how do you know to match it 188 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: up to a guy smoking a cigarette? North Carolina? Yeah, 189 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: that's a result of tenacious investigation. That was the one 190 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: thing that struck me about this story is how would 191 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, of the millions of people that you could 192 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: suspect that this would be somebody that you'd want to 193 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: pursue a match. It has gotten increasingly easy over the years, 194 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: and you never want to say it's completely easy. But 195 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: where we become much better at DNA and forensics, but 196 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 1: that's still the old fashioned police work is how do 197 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: you choose your potential suspect? And that's where good old 198 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 1: fashioned investigation still saves the day, as apparently it did here. 199 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: There's more to the story than just matching up DNA 200 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: off a cigarette butt, which is really your saliva on 201 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: the tip of the cigarette and then you throw away 202 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: the butt and cops can get that and match DNA, 203 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: But you've got to have something to match it too. 204 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: Let let's just say that Bobby Chikon's FBI special agent 205 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: is with me and Karen starts sorry, Karen starts psychologist 206 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 1: out of Manhattan, gets murdered. Chikon's fingerprint is found to 207 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: the scene. Well, I mean, find a fingerprint, but that 208 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: means nothing to me unless I can match it to something. Well, 209 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: in this case, the case goes cold. But there had 210 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: been a fingerprint, a fingerprint from Crane's stolen car. Suddenly 211 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: you get a match on aphis the Fingerprint Data Bank. 212 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: So John Limley, Crimeline dot Com investigative reporter, that fingerprint 213 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: matches back to this then eighteen year old person, Edwin Hyatt, 214 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: now a grown man living in North Carolina, and he 215 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: was familiar to LA police back in the eighties. Oh yeah, okay, 216 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: that's what I was just about to ask you. And 217 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: so they follow to Edwin High at North Carolina and 218 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: then they see what he's doing. They get discard as 219 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: cigarette butts and a coffee cup from the parking lot 220 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: of an auto repair shop where High It works. They 221 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: watch him, They see him discard a coffee cup like 222 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: i'd throw out a McDonald's coffee cup. You better believe 223 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: it's not Starbucks five dollars a cup. Anyway, They get 224 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: the coffee cup and they match the saliva on the 225 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: coffee cup to the saliva on that cigarette butt. That's 226 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: how they did it. But I'm missing a link, John Limley, 227 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: how they have Edwin Hyatt's fingerprint to go in a 228 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: wild goose chase to North Carolina. Tell me he had 229 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: been arrested a couple of times in the nineteen eighties, 230 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties on some drug charges and some other 231 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: minor charges. But that's how it was in. These fingerprints 232 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: were in the system. Well, I don't get it. Why 233 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: did it take so long to match up the fingerprints 234 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: if they were in the system in the eighties, What 235 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: do you think to Wendy Patrick, why did it take 236 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: so long? Well? One of the things that we know 237 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: about warming up cold cases is as the years go by, 238 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: sometimes there are tips, there are loose ends, there are 239 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: better forensic techniques, There are all these behind the scenes, 240 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: really sort of basic investigations enhanced by the advances in 241 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: forensics that allow us more leads to follow than perhaps 242 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: we had back in the day. So when you have 243 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: somebody that does have these things on file, whether it's 244 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: alive of fingerprints, whatever you have, and you do get 245 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: new leads through new techniques, we are able then to 246 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: develop suspect profiles that we couldn't have developed thirty years ago. 247 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: So when you have cases like this that are warmed 248 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: up so far after the fact, you wonder whether behind 249 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: the scenes, and I'm sure we'll learn more about this 250 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: as the case progresses, that actually we're able to break 251 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: it open, so prosecutors could have a shot at actually 252 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: solving it. Bobby Chicone weight In from my experience, they 253 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: nancy what it looks like. In this cases, they may 254 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: have gotten a partial print from the car, the vehicle 255 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: that was discarded, and so therefore over the years they 256 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: didn't have enough and they were contacted by a fingerprint 257 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: examiner in twenty eighteen that took a second look at it. 258 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes they can rehabilitate a partial print, they can 259 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: build it better and give you a pool of suspects 260 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: and then you can go out. In this case, they 261 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: went out and got the DNA. They surveiled him because 262 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: he may have been in the pool of these people 263 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: that fit this partial print. And then they get the DNA. 264 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: They matched the DNA because they didn't run out on 265 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: the print, they ran out on the DNA they collected 266 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: as DNA. They matched the DNA to the DNA found 267 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: on the cigaretts inside the vehicle, and that's when they 268 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: went and actually started to interrogate him. This is what 269 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: we know about Edwin Hyatts passed. His criminal history dates 270 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: back to eighty five caught in Utah with a stolen 271 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: car that was not Cranes. So there you've got a 272 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: similar transaction regarding stolen cars. His most notable charge it 273 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: was in ninety seven a domestic violence charge. In that case, 274 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: a witness reported Hyatt choked and beat his now ex 275 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: wife to the point she vomited. He also allegedly threatened 276 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: to burn the house down. There were drug offenses other 277 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: minor charges, but it all culminates when an FBI surveillance 278 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: team conducts an operation locates Hyatt working at an auto 279 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: repair shop, and there is where they see him drink 280 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: from a disposable coffee cup and throwaway cigarette butts out 281 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: into the parking lot. That coffee cup, the lid, the 282 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: cigarette butts were obtained from public areas without Hyatt's knowledge. 283 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: Is that okay, Wendy Patrick. I mean, when you abandon 284 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: something in plain view, a cop has the right to 285 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: pick it up, doesn't he Yes, And we actually see 286 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: lots of cases that are solved that way. As somebody's 287 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: followed around, they discard a cup or a cigarette butt 288 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: or the rest of it, and it's easy to get 289 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: DNA off of that and then do a match. You know, 290 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: there's a big difference between what police and law enforcement 291 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: are allowed to do when you're in the comfort of 292 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: your own home versus what they can observe, what they 293 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: can obtain, and what they can then recover about what 294 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: you do in public. And thankfully there are so many 295 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: cases that are sold every day just like this one 296 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: because of discarded items that they are then able to 297 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: examine forensically and link up. Police collected discarded cigarette butts 298 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: outside Hyatt's auto repair shop. There was a DNA match. 299 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: Police said during the best I can, guys, just to 300 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 1: get through this, I just don't want to remember the 301 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: past because God's taken it from me. Everything that I'm 302 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: at today is totally different lifestyle from where I was before. 303 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: Would you have done murderer? Don't? I don't have any 304 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: kind of memory at all. Guys Hyatt appeared in court 305 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: today in a wheelchair. Hard to believe that, despite his appearance, 306 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: he is just fifty two years old. He would have 307 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: been eighteen at the time of the murder. I don't 308 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: remember the guy until they told me his name, and 309 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: then I didn't remember his pre and from WTVD, a 310 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: Hollywood murder mystery appears to be solved. Authorities arresting this 311 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: Burt County man in connection with the death of a 312 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: TV producer named Barry Crane. The FBI says they linked 313 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: ed Hyatt to the crime using DNA evidence gathered from 314 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: Crane's Cadillac. Crane was murdered back in nineteen eighty five 315 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, his body found naked and wrapped in 316 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: sheets in his garage. Crane produced shows like The Six 317 00:18:46,520 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: Million Dollar Man, Dallas and Mission Impossible Crime Stories with 318 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. He was arrested on the New York City 319 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: subway after authorities saying he has set Florida contectives done 320 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: in Miami Beach say, Gibson killed a seventy seventy year 321 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: old man and then wrote an unnerving message in the 322 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: victim's blood, reading Rome must fall. Did you kill the 323 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: guy in Florida? He mouthed the words with my bare hands. 324 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: Oh that's chilling, all right? So do investigators believe them? Well, 325 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: they are certainly looking into him, obviously. It does sound fantastical, right, 326 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: a serial killer starting when he's so young, it's not 327 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: unheard of. And you throw on the fact that he 328 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: was only thirteen when he was first convicted of rape, 329 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: how young he was with his other gruesome crimes. It's 330 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: certainly worth looking into. And multiple agencies tell me they're 331 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: doing that right now. All right, So let's breathe home. 332 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: What are the ties Ac County? How did he even 333 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: get here? You know, that's kind of a million dollar 334 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: question At this point in time. Investigators believe he was 335 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: essentially a vagrant, traveling criss crossing the country even as 336 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: a child. Aside from his time in prison, we actually 337 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: cannot find any records of him in Cobb County. I'm 338 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: not sure why they think it's fantastical for there to 339 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: be a serial killer, especially when you take into account 340 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: he's leaving no traces of where he has been, seemingly 341 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: traveling from state to state without any record of him 342 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: being there, ending bragging, I killed him with my bare hands. 343 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: I'm talking about thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson and 344 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: his latest victim, now dead, Eric Stalker. I mean, see, Grace, 345 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 346 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friends at eleven alive, Ryan Krueger, 347 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: Who is this guy? I killed him with my bare hands, 348 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: and I've watched him over and over. Make that statement 349 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: the chilling moment of self profess serial killer admits to 350 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: murdering a victim and cutting up the victim's body with 351 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: a sword, now claiming he has murdered thirty two people. 352 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Ellen colorin Crimaline dot Com investigative Reporter, 353 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: where you can find this in all other breaking crime 354 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: injustice news, Ellen, who is this guy? Well, like you said, Nancy, 355 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: this guy Nicholas Gibson. He has a long, long criminal history. 356 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: He's been in prison more often than he's been out 357 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: since since there two thousand and he has flown under 358 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: the radar of law enforcement, living in multiple states, claiming 359 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: to be from New Zealand, claiming to have a fine 360 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: arts degree from a school in Illinois and now just 361 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: last month, he is accused and confessed to murdering a 362 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: man in their very nice Miami Beach condominium apartment building 363 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: with the gad in front. And he supposedly was living 364 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: with this man as a home health aide, but he 365 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: did anything but help him. Take a Listen to our 366 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: friend Jesse Palmer at Daily MELTV Nicholas Gibson as a 367 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: convicted sex offender who claims to have left the trail 368 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: of bodies across the US since he was just twelve 369 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: years old. His shocking admission comes after his arrest for 370 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: hacking a seventy seven year old man to death allegedly 371 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: with a samurai sword in Florida and Crusoe a neighbor's 372 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: description of the horrific scene inside the apartment complex where 373 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: seventy seven year old Eric Stoker's body was found in April, 374 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: ten days after he was allegedly murdered by his apparent 375 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: healthcare aid and companion, identified as thirty two year old 376 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: Nicholas Gibson. According to investigators, Gibson allegedly butchered his victim, 377 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: with a samurai sword, stooles credit card and fled to 378 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: New York. Two weeks ago, authorities tracked down and arrested 379 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: Nicholas Gibson on a subway platform. It was after that 380 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: arrest that authorities stitched together a pattern in the unravel 381 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: the Tapestry of Terror and capture of a possible serial killer. 382 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor Forensics, 383 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet 384 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: on Amazon, Jesscott, do you believe this guy, thirty two 385 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: year old Nicholas Gibson, meets the profile of a serial killer? Yeah, 386 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: quite possibly, Nancy. This guy's drifted all over the country. Look, 387 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: it's documented that he started out as an offender early 388 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: on in his life, and I mean early. We're talking 389 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: thirteen years old, and they're having trouble tracing back his 390 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: origins prior to that. And some of the most successful, 391 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: I hate to use that word efficient serial killers in 392 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: our country's history have been those that have drifted about. 393 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: We can name them one after one from state to state. 394 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons it's so easy to slip 395 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: under the radar is because you just vanish after you 396 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: have done what you were doing in that particular location. 397 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: To Ashley Wilcot, juvenile judge, lawyer anchor. You can find 398 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: her at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Ask you what about it? 399 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: Does this guy, thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson fit 400 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: the profile of a serial killer? See does to me? 401 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: But let's back it up, Nancy, you heard it thirteen 402 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: he's accused of raping someone. Let me tell you right now, 403 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: if I have a juvenile thirteen twelve come in front 404 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: of me accused of raping someone a game off. That 405 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: is not a typical crime I see of a juvenile 406 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: that age at all. He should have had all kinds 407 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: of testing and rehab and honestly looked at as a 408 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: potential threat moving forward into adulthood, because that is a 409 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: huge red flag. He's got issues. So let's follow up 410 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: on that. Ellen klaurin crimalline dot com investigative reporter. What 411 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: do we know about his record? Nancy? We know that 412 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 1: he has an extremely long criminal record dating back to 413 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: when he was a child. He served as a juvenile 414 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: eight years for a rape, and then he was convicted 415 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: of rape again later and he served only half the 416 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: time that he didn't his original sectence, and he had 417 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: only he did not disclose that he was a sexy 418 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: succor on multiple occasions humorous for respire charges related to 419 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: concealing that. And he had just got knock to jail 420 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: again and no remember of twenty and eighteen just months 421 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: before he killed Eric Sucker. So too, doctor Jolie Silva, 422 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: clinical and forensic psychologist, does he made the profile of 423 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: a serial killer. So from what we know, you know, um, 424 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: based on his admission of this one murder in Miami, 425 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: all of the other factors that we know about him, 426 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: that he has traveled around the country, that he is 427 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: a vagrant lifestyle, that he has a history of rape, 428 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: which is a violent offense, dating back to to when 429 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: he's thirteen years old. Um, it's it's quite possible that 430 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: that he that he is a serial killer given those factors, 431 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 1: because those are number of risk factors that would indicate 432 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: he could do something like that. I agree with you, 433 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: doctor Silva, jump in, Yeah, this is actually I'm so 434 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: sorry to do this too, but I just have to 435 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,719 Speaker 1: add this keep in mind, especially as a juvenile, one 436 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: of the things I can order psychological evaluations, and the 437 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: benefit of that is to see what their predisposition is, 438 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: if they have any diagnoses, anything that may indicate, yes, 439 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: something some switches off in the brain that could be 440 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: resulting in them being a serial killer. Yeah, I mean, 441 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: from what I know of serial killers. To Joseph Scott Morgan, 442 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 1: they one of the classic signs. To start with that, 443 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: one of the classic signs of a serial killer, a 444 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: textbook indicator, is that they begin offending at a very 445 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: young age, killing pets, killing neighborhood animals, torturing even insects, 446 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,959 Speaker 1: and taking great joy in it. Then they seem to 447 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: graduate to humans. Right now, we know investigators in three 448 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: states are currently searching through coal cases missing person's reports 449 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: to determine whether this guy, Nicholas Gibson's crimes are real 450 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,679 Speaker 1: or are they nothing more meaning to waste police time 451 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: and make him famous or should I say infamous? We 452 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: know that Gibson has admitted to killing Eric Stalker, at 453 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: first with his bare hands, as he likes to brag, 454 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: and then with quote a big sword. Now, what are 455 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: these claims reveal about the mindset of Nicholas Gibson. Joe Scott, Well, 456 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,239 Speaker 1: I think that any of these claims that he has 457 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: made could have been something that just you know, that 458 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: he read in the newspaper at some point in time. 459 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: You have to factor that in. I was peripherally involved 460 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: with the Henry Lee Lucas serial killings. He came to 461 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: visit us in Louisiana the early part of my career 462 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: and claimed that he had killed people all over the place. 463 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: Him and his partner had wandered around the country. And 464 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: some of those claims didn't didn't pan out. He was 465 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: just lying about what he did to attract attention and 466 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: also to get a break from prison. And that might 467 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: be the case with this guy, but he does have 468 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: specific knowledge about some things. At this point, at least, 469 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: it's going to be up to the police to marry 470 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: up the timeline the events. And also one major factor here, Nancy, 471 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,719 Speaker 1: it's going to be the methodology that he employed, and 472 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: that's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. 473 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what you mean methodology he employed. Well, 474 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: what we're talking about is how did he actually go 475 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: about killing these people? This one gentleman down in Florida 476 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: that he admits to have taken his life. At first, 477 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: he says, I killed him with my bare hands. Well 478 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Did you beat him to death 479 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: or did you strangle him? And then this thing he applies, 480 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: I used a big sword to take apart the body. 481 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: You know, that's a lot of work. Does he work 482 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: with weapons that he shows up with or does he 483 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: use what are referred to as weapons of convenience? And 484 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: so that's going to be something. It all goes to 485 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: this pre sure that is painted about these individuals, and 486 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: that's one of the ways that investigators can kind of 487 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: profile this individual and see if he applies the same 488 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: methodologies in each one of these cases. Crime Stories with 489 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson. I, Nancy Grace, 490 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 491 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: Who is this guy? A self profess serial killer admits 492 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: to murdering a victim and cutting up the victim's body 493 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: with a sword, now claiming he has murdered thirty two 494 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: people for one thing. We're trying to determine whether he's 495 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: telling the truth. There's a mystery death see Pahuka twenty 496 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: seven years old. A gorgeous Finnish woman was found drowned 497 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: in Biscay Bay. In Florida and autopsy was inconclusive. But 498 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: this guy, thirty two year old Nicholas Gibson tells cops 499 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: he killed her. What about that Alan Kilaurin. That's right, Nancy. 500 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: He has indicated that he is responsible for that unsolved death. However, 501 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: authorities believed at a time that se died he was 502 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: still in jail, So we're not sure if that claim 503 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: can be trusted or anything that he's saying can be trusted. Well, 504 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: he also, yeah, I agree, you know you can't. Prison 505 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: records don't lie. Aka. He also tells detectives that after 506 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: his release from jail, he killed a Russian man in 507 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: Tampa Bay before slicing the throat of an African American 508 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: man he smoked pot with in Compton, California. That's quite 509 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: a bit of zigzagut across the country. He claims he 510 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: used the same knife as in the Compton killing to 511 00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: murder a homeless man in Key West, his alleged fifth victim. 512 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,479 Speaker 1: He says he murdered, as he describes penultimate victim, a 513 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: female tourist, by drowning her in biscaying bait. The one 514 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: we just referred to. See now, one of these Investigators 515 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: from the Miami Beach Police Department remembered a similar case 516 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: that same year, where they found a victim along a seawall. 517 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: His criminal history suggests he's been behind bars when that 518 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: body was found, but we don't know how long the 519 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: body had been there. For instance, in Stalker's case, the 520 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: man he was living with the decomposing body was found 521 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: after neighbors reported the odor. We don't know how long 522 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: he had been dead inside that home. We also know 523 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: he's a tattoo artist. Sources say he was living with 524 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Stalker and mutilated him. Mutilated him. What does that mean 525 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: to you, Joe Scott Morgan, He didn't just kill him, 526 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 1: He mutilated him. Yeah, he did. And so I'm wondering, 527 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: what's the driver behind this guy and and all these 528 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: other cases that he's allegedly involved in. Is this something 529 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: that he's done with these other bodies as well. Let's 530 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: take a look at this instrument that he used. He's 531 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,959 Speaker 1: talking about using Nancy a samurai sword. All the cases 532 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: that we've covered involving dismemberment, I don't ever recall someone 533 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: using a sword in order to facilitate this. This takes 534 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: a lot of rage, a lot of anger. It takes 535 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: It takes specific time because look, I don't want to 536 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: be too graphic, but it comes down to having to 537 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: hack this body into pieces. This isn't like sawing a 538 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: body up. So this is a protracted period of time. 539 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,959 Speaker 1: When the reporter mentioned that this looked like something out 540 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: of Miami CSI or whatever that program is called, what 541 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: she's talking about is that more than likely this scene 542 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: was just covered and bathed in blood. Up to ash Walcott, 543 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: we also know this. We know that his mental health 544 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: spiraled after he's split up with a long time girlfriend 545 00:32:54,600 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: named Stephanie, with whom he has a daughter, she step Me. 546 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: The girlfriend died in twenty seventeen. Now many people believe 547 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: that drugs were involved, but I would not preclude him 548 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: murdering her as well, although Ashley even ted Bundy had 549 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: a girlfriend that he did not harm, but he killed 550 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: other people. Ashley, that's right. He this, you know, could 551 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: be just killing strangers versus someone he cares about. Her 552 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: allegedly cares about two things that I would point out. 553 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: One is I would absolutely look into her death to 554 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: ensure that it was not a murder. Number one. Number two, 555 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, to concern I have a distinction now is 556 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: did he actually commit these crimes? Is there forensic evidence 557 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: to Lincoln to these times or is this all fanciful 558 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: stories that he's come up with and made up, because 559 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: every killing is very different, which causes me a little 560 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: bit of thought about did he really do it? Yeah, 561 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm curious. It fits in perfectly to Joe Scott Morgan, 562 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: the moving from state to state. He also goes under 563 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: the name Brent Savage. We have people in multiple states 564 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: now looking for him because if his drifting past, repeatedly 565 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: reoffending and feeling to alert authorities as to where he's living, 566 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: what do you make of it? Is he the real deal? 567 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: Is he a serial killer? Joe Scott? You know, it's 568 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: hard to say at this particular time, but here's here's 569 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: a curious thing, Nancy about this guy. When you're talking 570 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: about serial killers, generally, they're going to kill within a 571 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: specific grouping. It'll be an age group, Uh, it'll be 572 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 1: a racial group, it'll be a gender group. You know, 573 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: are they attacking strictly males or you know, sometimes serial 574 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: killers will encounter members of an opposite gender from what 575 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: they normally hunt. But that's that's Uh, you know, that's 576 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: just happenstance many times. So if he's killing both women 577 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: and men, uh, there are documented cases where you have 578 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: this commingling, but it's rare. And also the age, the 579 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: ages of these individuals. Uh, you know, is he kill 580 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: a group that's say over fifty, over sixty or is 581 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: he killing people that are young teens? It's really hard 582 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 1: to say. I think that what he has said thus far, 583 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: the police are absolutely positively compelled to examine every jot 584 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: and tittle that this guy is putting forward. But I 585 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: would do it, you know, I would. I would be 586 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: dubious about a lot of the statements since he's making. 587 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Ryan Krueger at eleven 588 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: A line. Nicholas Gibson claims he killed a homeless man 589 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: in Cole County back in nineteen ninety nine. He's confessed 590 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: to six other killings. Ryan Krueger joins us. Now, Ryan, 591 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: our authorities here looking into these confessions. Now, yeah, they 592 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: certainly are. Right now, there are multiple law enforcement agencies 593 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: looking into their old files see if they have any 594 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: cases then't match the story that Nicholas Gibson is telling. 595 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: Listen as the reporter asked Gibson about his first murder. 596 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,240 Speaker 1: Now we can confirm Gibson has told investigators that first 597 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: killing have been right here in the Metro. He claims 598 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: he hit a homeless man and a head with a 599 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: brick and left his body in the woods of Cobb County. 600 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: In the twenty years since, Gibson has been in and 601 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: out of jail, including two prisons Dints and Georgia for 602 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: failing to a register as a sex offender. At age thirteen, 603 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,919 Speaker 1: he was convicted of rape in Illinois spent seven years 604 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: in Jubie to Joe Scott, do you believe there will 605 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: be other bodies in other murder charges? Well, what I 606 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: do believe is that this guy will continue to throw 607 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,919 Speaker 1: up names. One of the things you notice what he said, 608 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,280 Speaker 1: this guy has spent a lot of time in prison. 609 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: And the thing about it is when you're in prison 610 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: and you have a lot of time on your hands, 611 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: you have a lot of time to read. There's no 612 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: telling what are the cases this guy has filed away 613 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: in his mind. Now, whether or not he was involved 614 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: in them, I don't know. But before before they can 615 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: charge the Scott, they're going to have to show connectivity first, 616 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: geographically and second chronologically, can they put him in these 617 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: locations with these bodies? And was he a free person 618 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: at that particular time to Dodge Michelle d Pre, medical examiner, 619 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Since his body has 620 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: been mutilated, will be really be able to determine the 621 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: cod cause of death on Eric Stoker? Of course, it 622 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: depends on the amount of body. That also depends on 623 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: the injury. Certainly, if a samurai sword was used, yes, 624 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: we can tell that there was a sharp force injury. 625 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: If there was triangulation, that may be more difficult. We 626 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 1: wait as the investigation goes on. If you have information, 627 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: please call Miami Beach PD. Three zero five six seven 628 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: three seven nine hundred three zero five six seven three 629 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: seven nine hundred. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,