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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 1: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 1: But enough with that, Let's get to the show. All right,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Counterpoints. Everybody, all right? Last night, President,

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Speaker 1: former president Donald Trump appeared on Tucker Carlson's show, The

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Speaker 1: Man who says he absolutely despises him or whatever. Trump

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Speaker 1: complained apparently to Tucker like, how could you say that

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Speaker 1: about me? Man? And I can imagine that the exchange

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Speaker 1: from there was like, why don't you come on my show?

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Speaker 1: And it work and boom, he's got another interview. So

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Speaker 1: we're going to play some clips for that. Inflation numbers,

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Speaker 1: March inflation numbers are coming out this week. That has

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Speaker 1: a lot of implications for what the Federal Reserve is

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Speaker 1: going to do going forward. You're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about Title nine later today, right, and we have news

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Speaker 1: from Elon Musk and Matt ta Abi's ongoing feud. We'll

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Speaker 1: be covering some big developments in investigations into the collusion

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Speaker 1: between Silicon Valley and our federal government. And you've got

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Speaker 1: some Julianssange stuff to talk. Yes, the squad plus Greg

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Speaker 1: Kasar put out a letter to Merrik Garland asking for

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Speaker 1: the Department of Justice to drop the charges against Juliana Song.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that and some other international

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Speaker 1: efforts to release to get to get the extradition effort dropped.

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Speaker 1: And also, as you can see at the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the bar that we're going to have Mary and Williamson

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Speaker 1: to talk about her the marian mania that has gripped TikTok,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not. And I had to be told

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Speaker 1: this because I don't know. She is an absolute phenom

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Speaker 1: on TikTok and it's showing up in polls, as Crystal

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Speaker 1: Lencheon earlier this week showing up in polls. So we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk to her about why that is and

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Speaker 1: what that means. But first, let's roll a little bit

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Speaker 1: of this Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump interview. What I

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Speaker 1: thought perhaps the most newsworthy element of it was his

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Speaker 1: comments about the Russian role and the US role in

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Speaker 1: the blowing up of the North Stream pipeline. Let's play

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Speaker 1: a four here. Who blew up the North Stream pipeline.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get our country in trouble, so

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Speaker 1: I won't answer it. But I can tell you who

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Speaker 1: it wasn't was Russia about when they blamed Russia's you know,

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Speaker 1: they said Russia blew up their own pipeline. You got

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Speaker 1: to kick out of that one too. It wasn't Russia.

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Speaker 1: So first of all, it's not as if he was

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Speaker 1: in the planning if the United States did this of

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Speaker 1: the blowing up of the North Stream pipeline. But he

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Speaker 1: is somebody who plausibly has connections to people who would know.

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Speaker 1: He's also not necessarily the most credible source for information.

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Speaker 1: But he did say he was going to get arrested,

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Speaker 1: and he did get arrested. He called that one, So

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Speaker 1: he's on a roll. So what you make of his

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Speaker 1: claim here that basically he's saying the United States did this?

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Speaker 1: So I want to Actually I just looked this up

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Speaker 1: as you were talking. Biden barred Trump from getting intelligence briefings,

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Speaker 1: So I had forgotten that little tidbit which is pretty

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Speaker 1: crucial president since the era of the deep state, to

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Speaker 1: get cut off by the deep state, And it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty crucial element of how we interpret this right here now.

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Speaker 1: As you say, it's entirely plausible that he has he

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Speaker 1: knows somebody who knows I mean, he knows a guy,

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Speaker 1: he knows a guy who maybe knows a guy. But

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Speaker 1: either way, it's entirely plausible that he does have insider information.

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Speaker 1: Here he said, I don't want to get our country

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Speaker 1: in trouble. That's a big one. That's a big one,

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Speaker 1: don't you think, Yeah, Yeah, And then very later at

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Speaker 1: the end he says, he says, even more firmly, Russia

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Speaker 1: did not blow it up its own popeline, which everybody

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Speaker 1: kind of understands at this point. There was i mean

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Speaker 1: US intel that Russia was out shopping for contractors to

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Speaker 1: get estimates to fix this, and it was something like

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Speaker 1: five hundred million dollar, like an extraordinary amount of money

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Speaker 1: to patch this up and get it moving again. And

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Speaker 1: so that just further undercut the claim that Russia would

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Speaker 1: have blown it up, because if they're finding Russia out

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Speaker 1: privately trying to figure out how to fix it, it

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Speaker 1: just strains to the breaking point of credibility that they

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Speaker 1: would have blown it up in order to then figure

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Speaker 1: out how to fix it. Yeah, and you're right. I

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Speaker 1: think this was the newsiest bit from the entire interview.

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Speaker 1: Tucker just comes out and asks who blew up the

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Speaker 1: nord stream, which was one great way of getting it

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Speaker 1: at the question. Actually, but he also he dow who

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Speaker 1: killed Kennedy? Come on, right, he should have just like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: he should have like John Stossel did to my Pompeio recently,

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Speaker 1: which was pretty well done. But he also got Trump

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Speaker 1: to sort of talk about his experience in the courthouse

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan last week. So let's roll a one. Tell

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Speaker 1: us from your perspective what that was like. They were incredible.

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Speaker 1: When I went to the court, which is also a

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Speaker 1: prison in a sense, they signed me in, and I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you, people were crying. People that work there, professionally

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Speaker 1: work there, that have no problems putting in murderers and

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Speaker 1: they see everybody. It's tough, tough place, and they were crying.

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Speaker 1: They were actually crying. They said, I'm sorry they were crying.

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Speaker 1: Were they crying? They were actually crying? What do you think?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's too hard to say. I mean,

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Speaker 1: anything's possible, Maybe anything's possitively I could believe this guy.

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Speaker 1: It'd be so fun to like have him as a

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Speaker 1: reliable narrator of his life. But then he wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: who he is. No, yes, he was. Can't have one

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Speaker 1: without the other. But you know, there are obviously people

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Speaker 1: who are They have in the same sense, with a

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Speaker 1: lot of populist, charismatic figures over the course of world history,

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Speaker 1: American history that are very deeply emotionally connected for some

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Speaker 1: very understandable reasons to Donald Trump, who believe that absolutely,

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Speaker 1: to that that we know that, we know for sure,

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Speaker 1: it's not impossible to me that people would be crying.

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Speaker 1: But as you say, not the most credible narrator. And

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Speaker 1: so Trump has been asked before about Putin the war

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine. This to me was slightly different than and

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Speaker 1: a little bit more than we've gotten from him in

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Speaker 1: the past. Let's let's roll a little bit of this

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Speaker 1: on Putin and Ukraine. R ask you talk to Putin

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Speaker 1: about Ukraine? What did you say to him? I could

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Speaker 1: see that he loved it, and I said, he loved Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: He considers it to be a part of Russia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said not when I'm president. We had a very

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Speaker 1: good relationship, he was. I mean, look, I was the

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Speaker 1: worst thing that ever happened to him. I closed up

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Speaker 1: this pipeline. You never heard the word the words nord

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Speaker 1: Stream two until I came along. Nord Stream two is

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Speaker 1: the pipeline. And I had a great relationship with him.

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Speaker 1: But it was very tough because they had a fake

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Speaker 1: Russia investtigation. And I told him, and he told me,

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Speaker 1: he said, it's very hard for us to deal. Don't

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Speaker 1: you think I said, very hard because we have a

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Speaker 1: fake investigation that turned out to be a fake for

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Speaker 1: two years it went on. Donald Trump is actually right there.

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Speaker 1: He's completely correct about Nordstream. He's completely correct about how

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Speaker 1: he handled Ukraine and during his own presidency it's different

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Speaker 1: than how the Biden administration handled Ukraine, and Nordstream is

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Speaker 1: a part of that, and so he's not off the

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Speaker 1: mark on that point. Again, his relationship with Putin, We've

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Speaker 1: talked about this before you get to the Madman theory

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Speaker 1: of international relations that if you have somebody like Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump who's sees this as transactional in a business relationship,

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Speaker 1: which a lot of countries will be ess about like,

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Speaker 1: look at Macrone in China this week. He's just completely

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Speaker 1: bullshitting everybody in the way that politicians do diplomacy. It's

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Speaker 1: not how Donald Trump did diplomacy, did diplomacy like a businessman,

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Speaker 1: and it had some strange consequences at times. The amendment

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Speaker 1: I would make to that is that his doing business

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Speaker 1: at doing diplomacy as business had a knock on effect

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Speaker 1: of actually ending up arming Ukraine to the teeth in

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Speaker 1: a way that the Obama administration didn't do. And that's

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Speaker 1: a weird history of this is that you had Ukraine

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Speaker 1: up through the Obama era, particularly after twenty fourteen, with

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Speaker 1: the kind of US supported coup flipping at the government

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Speaker 1: there and then Russia annexing Crimea. You had Ukraine pushing

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration for all sorts of weapons, javelins and

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Speaker 1: billions in weapons flows that had not been coming previously.

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Speaker 1: The Obama administration actually said, no, we don't want to

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Speaker 1: antagonize Russia over here. When the Trump administration came in

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Speaker 1: because and Trump talks about it, because of all this

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Speaker 1: Trump Russia stuff, Trump I think was more eager to

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Speaker 1: be tougher on Putin as a result, and then he

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Speaker 1: also saw that Ukraine wanted something from him, and this

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Speaker 1: is where the business side comes in. Ukraine wanted weapons

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Speaker 1: from Does Trump care why Ukraine wants weapons or whether

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Speaker 1: Ukraine should have weapons, No, he doesn't care. What he

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Speaker 1: knows these people want something from me. I want something

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Speaker 1: from them. And that's when he had his perfect phone

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Speaker 1: call with Zelensky where he's like, look, you guys want

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Speaker 1: these weapons, here's what I want. I want you going

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Speaker 1: on TV saying that Hunter Biden and Joe Biden are

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Speaker 1: corrupt and you know, the whole thing that led to

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Speaker 1: his impeachment. And so as a result, what comes out

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Speaker 1: of that is Ukraine getting tons of weapons, right, and

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Speaker 1: Russia feeling antagonized. Well, so Russia not moving in until

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden's president, though yes, we don't know whether or

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Speaker 1: not he would have moved in when Biden, but it

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Speaker 1: is a matter of historical record that it ended up

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Speaker 1: being Trump that armed Ukraine in a way that Obama

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Speaker 1: did not, which is which complicates the whole question. Although yeah,

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Speaker 1: I still think there's an argument that Zelensky or that

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Speaker 1: Putin doesn't move under Trump because he sees all of

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Speaker 1: the weapons flowing and realizes the United States would probably

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Speaker 1: under Trump have a different approach, which it turned out

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Speaker 1: to be different though right like, Trump turned out to

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Speaker 1: be tough in terms of sending the weapons, even while

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Speaker 1: he talked one way about Putin and then when the

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Speaker 1: war actually kicked in the high gear. For all kinds

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Speaker 1: of political reasons, Donald Trump has been one of the

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Speaker 1: people basically in the Republican Party breaking the near kon consensus. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, the argument that Trump seems to be making

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Speaker 1: is that he's so crazy that Putin was afraid of him.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think we have this clip queued up,

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Speaker 1: but there's this exchange back and forth where he says,

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Speaker 1: I told she, if you go after Taiwan, and I

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Speaker 1: told Putin, if you go off for Ukraine, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do something that's so terrible that we can't even

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Speaker 1: speak about it. And later he calls it the N word,

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Speaker 1: which he says nuclear. And so he's like, and she

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Speaker 1: and Putin they didn't believe me, but they believed me

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Speaker 1: ten percent. Yeah, and that ten percent was enough to

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Speaker 1: keep them out of Taiwan, to keep them out of Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: So his argument is reading between the lines that he

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Speaker 1: threatened to nuke them if they stepped over the border,

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Speaker 1: and as a result, they stayed back, and that that

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Speaker 1: ten percent of a question in their mind of is

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Speaker 1: this guy mad enough to do this is what held

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Speaker 1: them back. I don't know how sustainable that is as

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Speaker 1: a farm policy, right exactly, and again not impossible. There's

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Speaker 1: truth to it, and we've talked about it before. So

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Speaker 1: we also have one more clip of him talking about

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Speaker 1: he's asked sort of what the biggest threat to the

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Speaker 1: United States is. Let's roll a three. I often say.

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Speaker 1: They said to me the other day one of your

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Speaker 1: fellow journalists said, who's the biggest problem? So is it China?

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Speaker 1: Could it be Russia? Could it be North Korea? And

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Speaker 1: now I said, the biggest problems from within? It's these sick,

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Speaker 1: radical people from within. Because we can handle if we're smart,

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Speaker 1: we can handle Russia. China. I did. I took him

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Speaker 1: bidding and billions, hundreds of billions of dollars from China.

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Speaker 1: No other president took in anything. And they respected me.

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Speaker 1: He's the same thing, you know. I told him you

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Speaker 1: can't go into Taiwan. You can't, you can't do it.

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Speaker 1: I won't tell you exactly what I said, but it

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Speaker 1: was something that probably a lot of people wouldn't like

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Speaker 1: if they heard it, But it was very tough. Don't

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Speaker 1: go into Taiwan. If you do, we're going to have problems.

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Speaker 1: Other than that, we're going to be great relationship. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna have a great relationship. And he said to me

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Speaker 1: when I said we're going to do something, if he

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Speaker 1: goes no, no, no, you wouldn't do it, I'll do that.

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Speaker 1: I swear I do that. And he didn't believe me,

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Speaker 1: but he believed me ten percent. The same thing with Putin.

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Speaker 1: I said I was going to do something really nasty

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Speaker 1: if he goes into Ukraine. He said, no, no, You're

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Speaker 1: not going to do that, and I said, so we

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Speaker 1: did have that clip. I didn't realize it was the

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Speaker 1: same one where he talks about the radical siccos yes,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, so is that you're read too that he

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Speaker 1: basically threatened to nuke them? Is that what he's trying

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Speaker 1: to say? Yeah, No, I think it's absolutely And again

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Speaker 1: it's not. I mean that threat is always looming over.

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Speaker 1: That is our threat, Like, that's the whole reason we

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Speaker 1: have a nuclear arsenal to make that threat. It's been

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Speaker 1: the world order for one hundred years now. Like that's

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Speaker 1: how international It is the single biggest thing that looms

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Speaker 1: over international relations period, and people don't say it aloud.

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Speaker 1: I think for some defensible reasons. People can correct me

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Speaker 1: if in the comments or whatever, I'm wrong. But I

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Speaker 1: think China has signed a no first strike pledge, but

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Speaker 1: the United States has not and refuses to. If everybody

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Speaker 1: would sign a no first strike pledge, we wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent out of the woods, would We'd be

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Speaker 1: much further out of the Woods's certainly such a hippie. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think avoiding nuclear annihilation is pretty rad man.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't believe anybody, you know, back into

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Speaker 1: a corner. And again this is madman theory. With you

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Speaker 1: talk about North Korea, you can talk about all kinds

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Speaker 1: of places are on where nuclear weapons are on the table.

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Speaker 1: In the same way that they might not trust Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump with what he says, but just trust him that

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Speaker 1: ten percent, you know, signing a no first strike treaty

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Speaker 1: and getting everyone on board with that, then you're putting

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Speaker 1: a lot of trust in the hands of people we

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily treat as good faith actors. But it would

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Speaker 1: would prevent you, at minimum from I think making those threats,

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Speaker 1: like if you said, if you go into Taiwan, we're

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Speaker 1: going to New qub Like you signed up. Are you

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Speaker 1: breaking your pledge here? Yeah? I don't just scare with that. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: we might get another shot at four years of Trump.

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Speaker 1: He's still climbing in the polse and he's looking good.

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Speaker 1: He's not looking good in the general election, but he's

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Speaker 1: looking good in the primary. In the primary. This is yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and Tucker, we should say this was obviously taped at

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Speaker 1: mar a Lago, was aired last thing on Fox News,

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Speaker 1: he said, before tossing to the first commercial break of Trump.

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Speaker 1: For a man who is caricatured as an extremist, we

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Speaker 1: think you'll find what he has to say moderate, sensible,

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Speaker 1: and wise, which the media contrasted with. As you mentioned earlier, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: those text messages where Tucker just said he despises Trump,

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Speaker 1: He's excited to get wait to never talk about him again.

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Speaker 1: You never have to talk about Donald Trump again again. Understandable,

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Speaker 1: life comes at you fast. Yes, I don't necessarily think

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Speaker 1: those are mutually exclusive things. I think he can say

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Speaker 1: that Trump in this interview sounded moderate sensible, and he's

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Speaker 1: a moderate sensible madman, except where he gets to wise.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I would use the word wise

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Speaker 1: in that context, but it's definitely he sends, I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you this, wiser than a whole lot of our foreign

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Speaker 1: policy elites who sound like absolute morons when they talk

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Speaker 1: about this stuff and continue to dig us deeper into

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Speaker 1: holes that we're already in. So on that note, at

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Speaker 1: least he's wiser. I guess everything's relative. And speaking of

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Speaker 1: his own legal jeopardy, news out of the prosecution of

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan DA is now suing

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Speaker 1: Jim Jordan to try to block where you put up

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Speaker 1: that first element here, to try basically to try to

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Speaker 1: keep Jim Jordan out of this case. He went for

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Speaker 1: a temporary restraining order to prevent Jordan from subpoenaing former

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Speaker 1: prosecutor in his office, who Elijah Orlans talked about in

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Speaker 1: our interview last week. He's written a book kind of

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Speaker 1: playing up his role as a prosecutor, resigning in protest

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Speaker 1: because Bragg wasn't going in the direction he wanted. Jordan's

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Speaker 1: trying to subpoena him Jordan is otherwise trying to get

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Speaker 1: all sorts of information about roughly five thousand dollars in

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Speaker 1: federal money that Bragg has spent in the tax part

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Speaker 1: of the investigation so far. And Bragg is straight up

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Speaker 1: calling this substruction of justice, Like you said, you're obstructing

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Speaker 1: this investigation. I want the judge to stop it. The

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Speaker 1: judge has rejected the temporary restraining order request but has

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Speaker 1: said that Jim Jordan needs to reply by I think

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Speaker 1: April fifteenth or seventeenth for a hearing around April nineteenth.

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Speaker 1: So this is moving quickly because it raises all sorts

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Speaker 1: of separation of power and questions and so independence of

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Speaker 1: the judiciary, Like can you subpoena and publicly attack a

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Speaker 1: prosecutor in the middle of a prosecution in a deliberate

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Speaker 1: effort to slow down the prosecution like that to obstruct,

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Speaker 1: like they're trying to obstruct. They won't even say they're

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Speaker 1: doing anything other than trying to obstruct the prosecution, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean so, Jim Jordan says, first they in died

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Speaker 1: a president for no crime. This is what he tweeted yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Then they sue to block congressional oversight when we ask

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Speaker 1: questions about the federal funds, they say they used to

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Speaker 1: do it. So, yes, he's using that roughly five thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars as a I think you can understand why it

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Speaker 1: falls into the oversight umbrella. He's using it as well.

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Speaker 1: You used, yeah, exactly five thousand dollars. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he's deeply concerned about the five thousand dollars, but he's

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Speaker 1: using it as his in to then file this. And

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Speaker 1: I saw experts quoted, I think in Axios this morning

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Speaker 1: saying listen, Bragg does not really have a shot here,

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Speaker 1: but his goal is likely to slow it all down,

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Speaker 1: to tie it all up. And I think even John

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Speaker 1: Deane tweeted that it was like a genius move or

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Speaker 1: a brilliant move I have about and Bragg defiled this

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Speaker 1: just tangle him up in court rather than having to

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Speaker 1: keep going. Yeah, I guess sure makes sense. So in

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Speaker 1: related news, the Gang of Eight, which is known as

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Speaker 1: the kind of two heads, and we put up this

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Speaker 1: second element. The two heads of the intelligence committees on

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Speaker 1: both sides of the Capitol, and the leaders of the

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Speaker 1: Senate and the House are now in possession of the

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Speaker 1: classified documents that both Biden and Trump intentionally or unintentionally

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Speaker 1: scrolled away into their garages and their resorts, and so

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Speaker 1: they now know what was missing, what was purloined, you know,

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Speaker 1: what kind of leaked out. I have always said the

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Speaker 1: way to resolve this is to basically show the public

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Speaker 1: everything except the stuff. I guess it would get somebody killed, yes, immediately,

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Speaker 1: and then let people judge like, was this did they take,

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Speaker 1: you know, the CIA's stupidly classified Soup of the Day menu,

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Speaker 1: or was this something related to nuclear technology that the

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Speaker 1: UAE was going to pay for? Because those are completely

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Speaker 1: different questions about whether or not the public should consider

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Speaker 1: this to be something they care about exactly. And we

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Speaker 1: have some indications that the documents at morologually we sort

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Speaker 1: of know that some of those are highly classified. We

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Speaker 1: know that some of those because there were pictures that

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Speaker 1: were filed. Obviously we can sort of make conclusions from that.

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Speaker 1: But still having that lack of information between the Pence documents,

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Speaker 1: the Biden documents, and the Trump documents, it's a world

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Speaker 1: apart based on Soup of the Day, which is a

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Speaker 1: joke but also not really, I really do that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they really do that. Between that and between like actual

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Speaker 1: nuclear secret stuff. And we've been having this conversation for

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Speaker 1: coming up on what this was last August, so coming

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Speaker 1: up on a year now, we've been having this conversation

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Speaker 1: about the Trump documents, totally in the dark about exactly

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Speaker 1: how bad they are. Again, we have some indications, but

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Speaker 1: without knowing exactly what that is. And this gets us

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Speaker 1: closer to that process, obviously, because as senators see things,

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Speaker 1: they say things and just sort of gets the ball rolling.

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Speaker 1: The closer that we get to that, the more we

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Speaker 1: can as the public make judgments about this, because it's

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Speaker 1: actually really hard to say. Knowing that the documents removed,

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Speaker 1: knowing that Trump was trying to obstruct the words seemingly

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Speaker 1: was trying to obstruct the collection of the documents, it

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Speaker 1: makes a world of difference what was in those boxes,

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Speaker 1: and we haven't known for almost a year. This is

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Speaker 1: also a good excuse for me to bring up beef

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Speaker 1: I have with the way the Congress does this. The

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Speaker 1: idea that you have a gang of eight, that you

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Speaker 1: have eight elected members of Congress who have this kind

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Speaker 1: of special ability to see intelligence material that other members

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Speaker 1: of Congress who have also been elected by equal districts

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Speaker 1: around the country or states that are equal in the Constitution,

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Speaker 1: creates a situation that puts Congress in this subservient role

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Speaker 1: to the intelligence community. To me, if you are a

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Speaker 1: member of Congress, the people have invested in you their

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Speaker 1: trust and the power and authority that comes with that trust.

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Speaker 1: Like if you believe in a democratic republic, then you

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Speaker 1: have to I think give everyone that the people send

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Speaker 1: to Washington the same access. Otherwise you wind up with

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Speaker 1: this power imbalance where even people who are on the

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Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee, Republicans, Republicans, even yeah in the majority on

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Speaker 1: the the Intelligent Committee, don't have access to some of

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Speaker 1: this stuff. And I think that's important because part of

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about here is that we have indications

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Speaker 1: not just from those pictures, but via leaks to the

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Speaker 1: media about the Trump files, and we saw that of

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Speaker 1: course of the Russia collusion investigation. We saw that with

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Speaker 1: the Iraq War. Leaks to the media are often dramatically

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Speaker 1: out of context. The media will contextualize them exactly as

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Speaker 1: their national security sources want them to contextualize them, and

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Speaker 1: that can mean that soup of the day is alluded

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Speaker 1: to in media reports as something much more serious than

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Speaker 1: it actually is. And you can come up with a

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Speaker 1: million different ways to do that. You could say, you know,

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Speaker 1: highly classified information about the personal decisions made by national

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Speaker 1: security officials, when that is actually just the soup that

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Speaker 1: they ate for lunch, but that it's really really misleading

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Speaker 1: when we play this leak game with national security, and

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Speaker 1: again we have a million different examples to show us

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Speaker 1: that very clearly at this point. And so that's part

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Speaker 1: of the reason why having not just the Department of

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Speaker 1: Justice know what's in those documents is so important, even

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Speaker 1: if it is senators from both the Democratic and Republican party,

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Speaker 1: and that gets it closer to the public having and

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Speaker 1: understanding of it. You then have competing interests that are

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Speaker 1: they both know what's there, and they can be they

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Speaker 1: can bring us slightly closer to an accurate or balanced

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Speaker 1: perspective of what's there, even if we can't see it ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like those competing interests should have should

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Speaker 1: have the legal ability to use their own judgment for

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Speaker 1: what they believe they ought to share with the public.

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Speaker 1: Like I think it's wild that the Speaker of the

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Speaker 1: House and the leader of the Senate can be told

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Speaker 1: by a bureaucrat it wasn't elected what they can share

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Speaker 1: with the public, And it shows a kind of split

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Speaker 1: between the faith that a lot of Americans. If you

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Speaker 1: take like an extreme like libertarian, right wing approach to

429
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 1: the market, they'd say, we don't need you know, don't

430
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: we don't need an FAA because if an if an

431
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: airplane crashes, then consumers are just going to not fly

432
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: on that one, and so that people are then incentivized

433
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: to build safer airplanes like that. That's that that's the

434
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: kind of faith that some people will put into a market,

435
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: but they don't put that same faith in voters. Like

436
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: if a Speaker of the House recklessly released classified information

437
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: that the public felt should not have been released, you

438
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: can vote him out of office. You can vote their

439
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: party out of office. So if you believe in the

440
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: kind of the wisdom of the crowds that make up

441
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 1: a market, why not put the same vest the same

442
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: authority and dignity into the people who elect our members

443
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: of Congress. Well, this is a little bit of a

444
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 1: preview of the title name segment. But before we get

445
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: to that, Mediaite also was reporting on a leaked Nikki

446
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: Haley memo that went after Trump for being indicted, which

447
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: is an interesting development. This is a memo to donors

448
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: from Nikki Haley Donald Trump had a pretty good Q

449
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 1: one if you count being indicted as good. Media continues.

450
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: Her campaign also claimed Trump only promised more drama quote

451
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: more drama in the future as his legal woes continue

452
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: to mount. The other candidate to get mentioned, media says

453
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: is DeSantis. It accuses him of making numerous quote missteps

454
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: since officially launching his twenty twenty four campaign with a

455
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: book tour. Here's the quote. Ron Desantus essentially launched his

456
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: presidential campaign with a national book tour during this period

457
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: and made one misstep after another, confirming what many observers

458
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: have long suspected. He's not ready for prime time. It

459
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: continues to say. And then there are the others. Wait

460
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: what others? Just really clever stuff from whoever wrote the

461
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: donor memo? Who? How is Nicki Haley being received on

462
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: the right? Is she's just nothing? Do people think she's

463
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: running for something else? For a future? I'd like to

464
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: just raise her profile, Like, is what's the kind of

465
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: right kind of conventional wisdom about what the Nicki Haley

466
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: campaign is? Yeah? I think it's that she's not being

467
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: well received by the conservative movement. But Republican voters are

468
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: a totally different question than that. You know, your average

469
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: Republican primary voter is not what is called a movement

470
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: conservative on the right. That's just not the case. So

471
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: sort of institutional conservatives, movement conservatives look at Nikki Haley

472
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: grassroots and say she's totally behind the curve, like she's

473
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: she's running a campaign from twenty twelve. I would argue

474
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: that's close to the truth in twenty twenty two. And

475
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: at the same time, Nicki Haley's going to say, well,

476
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: I can connect with suburban women, I can connect with

477
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: you know, your soccer mahams. Yeah, it's a totally different

478
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: demographic than your your sort of grassroots Republican activist or

479
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: your movement conservative who is pretty averse to this Ni

480
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: Chele campaign not cheb. Yeah, they're and they're tied up

481
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: obviously in the Trump DeSantis feud. The conservative movement is

482
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: very tied up in the Trump DeSantis food feud. Speaking

483
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: of which, we have polling. This is a New Morning

484
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: Console poll. This was published on Tuesday, of thirty six

485
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: hundred potential Republican primary voters, almost sixty percent according to

486
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: media again said they preferred Trump to DeSantis in a

487
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four matchup sixty percent. Trump tops the poll

488
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 1: with fifty six percent in the survey, DeSantis is behind

489
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: him with twenty three percent. That is a thir thirty

490
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: three point margin. Nicky Haley, Mike Pence and Nicky Haley

491
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: are following Trump and DeSantis at seven percent and four percent.

492
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: Liz Cheney's in there with three percent, and every other

493
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: option is at one percent or less. Salon is reporting

494
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: that support for former President Donald Trump fell rapidly after

495
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: five appear. Yeah, that was the good news. Here's that bad.

496
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: Here is another poll thirty four Felon accounts, obviously from

497
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 1: last week, his his support in an ABC News IPSOS

498
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: poll dipped pretty heavily after that. Salon is pointing out that,

499
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: you know, Trump says he thinks the indictment could help

500
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: him by boosting his support in election. The poll found

501
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: that a majority of Americans fifty three percent believe he

502
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: did something illegal, eleven percent say he acted wrongly but

503
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: not intentionally, twenty percent believe he was not culpable at all.

504
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: CNN poll released last week, so that sixty two percent

505
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: of independent voters approved of the indictment. That ABC News

506
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: poll from this week found fifty percent of people believe

507
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: that Trump should be charged with a crime. Thirty three

508
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: percent think he should not. Nearly have a respondent said

509
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: Trump should suspend his campaign in the wake of the indictment.

510
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: That was up from forty three percent before the indictment. So,

511
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: as you said, Ryan, a little good news, a little

512
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: bad news. But this is a perfect contrast between primary

513
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: and general election. The poll of Republican primary voters has

514
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: him up at nearly sixty percent with thirty three points

515
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: over DeSantis, who's at twenty three points. Whereas when you're

516
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: looking towards the general election, you have that broader pool,

517
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: not just a Republican primary voters saying, eh, this might

518
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: actually change my mind. What's amazing is that you have

519
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: Biden's approval rating in here at thirty four percent, and

520
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: you have him up almost ten higher than Trump, whose

521
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: approval rating is sitting at twenty five percent. Now, as

522
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: Ron Klain famously tweeted after McCrone won with like a

523
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: thirty percent approval rating, he was like, he did iball emoje.

524
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: He's look at that turns out you can win an

525
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: election with thirty percent approval rating. Somebody has to win

526
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: like that. That is the actual way that we do elections.

527
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: So it's at this point it looks like it's either

528
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: going to be somebody with a twenty five percent approval

529
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: rating or somebody with a thirty four percent approval rating,

530
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: unless entering the chat is Tim Scott, South Carolina Senator.

531
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: I've put up b six here, who just formed an

532
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: exploratory presidential committee. He's been kind of flirting with a

533
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: presidential run for years now. Yeah, and kind of. But

534
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: so I'm curious again on the right, what's the conventional

535
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: wisdom about Tim Scott. I think it's the exact same

536
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: as Nikki Haley, except he panders less, at least overtly

537
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: to that sort of soccer mom crowd. You know, there

538
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: was a lot of cringing over Nikki Haley's response to

539
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: Don Lemon where he made the horrible gaff saying that

540
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: she was passed her prime. It was just bizarre. It

541
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: was again said pastor Prime, said Nicki Haley was pastor prime.

542
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, if you miss this, you got to

543
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: go back and watch the cook because it's absolutely hilarious,

544
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: But it wasn't a gaff either. It was just Don

545
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: Lemon being Don Lemon, and Nikki Haley just responded to

546
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: it and I think a pretty cringy way. And Tim Scott,

547
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: you know, has had less opportunity to do that as

548
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: of now. I think he's probably ideologically similar. Obviously, they're

549
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: both South Carolina Republicans, people that would have really excited

550
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: I think the Tea Party wing of the party back

551
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, twenty sixteen, but have adapted to the

552
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: Trump era by not really adapting. Have adapted to the

553
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: Trump era, maybe by changing the way they talk about

554
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: the media, maybe by changing the way they talk about

555
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: rural America and forgotten Americans, but policy wise really hasn't

556
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: been a ton of shift from then to now. They

557
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: say that's good, right, that's the thing that allows them

558
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: to connect and communicate with suburban voters, your typical Republican voters,

559
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,479
Speaker 1: people that Democrats pander to when it comes to you know,

560
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: certain like the Gottheimer wing of the Democratic Party rights

561
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: that a whole wing, do we have to call that

562
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: not a whole wing actually, but it's a well funded

563
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: wing that funded the Gottheimer the Gottheimer Democrats could be

564
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: Nikki Haley Republicans, right, like that's or Tim Scott reports, Yeah,

565
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: the problem Solver's caucus and No Label's crew, like that's there. Yeah,

566
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: that is. I mean we might see it in twenty

567
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: twenty four with No Labels spending seventy million dollars to

568
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: get ballot lines everywhere, Salt deduction voters, yeah, like Mansion Haley. Yeah. Well,

569
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: and again there is a It depends on the economic climate,

570
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: It depends on the cultural climate. People have good reasons

571
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: for being interested in different things depending on where they're

572
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: coming from, depending on what their interests are. And yeah,

573
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: that's a their their betting that you can you can

574
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: make the pitch. But when you have Donald Trump up

575
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: right now, things change. But when you have him up

576
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: over DeSantis on that level, I mean, it just looks

577
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: like twenty sixteen again, where it's Donald Trump and everyone

578
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: else and the vote against Donald Trump. This time, maybe

579
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: it's only forty percent. I doubt it stays exactly sixty forty,

580
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: But you're either voting for Trump, you're voting against Trump,

581
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: just with a different flavor of voting against Trump, and

582
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: that makes him it's a glide path for the nomination

583
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: to him, And y'all couldn't beat Trump in twenty sixteen

584
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: when you had sixty to sixty five percent of the

585
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: party against him in primaries. Now you have like forty

586
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: percent against him. So and he's dominating the media because

587
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: one of the biggest news stories in the world is

588
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: this indictment. I'm a former president, so he's going to

589
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: eat up all the airtime as will be looming over.

590
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: There's two other cases, three other cases actually this Documents case,

591
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: the Georgia case, and there's one that I'm forgetting, But

592
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: the one that he was indicted on last week I

593
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: don't even think is going toc court until December. So

594
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: good luck. There you go. Well, let's move on to

595
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: the brewing substack and Twitter battle, which goes back to

596
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 1: this an exchange between Matt Tayebe and Twitter CEO and

597
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: SpaceX CEO and Tesla's CEO, Elon Musk, which Elon Musk

598
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: bizarrely and for some reason felt wise to share on

599
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: Twitter and then quickly delete screenshots last forever. So we

600
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: have some of these here we can put to the

601
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: first element. I think the account hall all flow may

602
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: have been one of the first to post this, so

603
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: you can find the full exchanges over at his account

604
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: and elsewhere to read something. So Matt basically reached out

605
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: to him and said, hey, He says, you're taking down

606
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: all of my Twitter files threads because you're mad at

607
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: me personally for not leaving the company where I was

608
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: already employed. Really Elon Musk writes back, No, this shouldn't

609
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: be happening, will be fixed tomorrow. But then he seizes

610
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: on something in Matt's tweet text and he says, you're

611
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: employed at substack and from there tell you me. Then

612
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: explains to him he says, my subscribers there employ me,

613
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: and I have a great thing going there. I also

614
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: have loyalty to the company which did originally hire me,

615
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: and if I moved to Twitter, it would have been

616
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: a major optics issue for us both. But this isn't

617
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: related to the threads being removed, so this is going

618
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: to be fixed. Musk tells him it's going to be fixed,

619
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: and then Tyev explains to him that he was using

620
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: the word hired loosely, and he says, I was never

621
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: a substack employee. I was one of the first substack

622
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: pro contributors, which is a guaranteed return system. For the

623
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: first year that was known publicly. Like tayeb has been

624
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: very transparent, Substack was offering deals to all sorts of

625
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: different writers in order. Yeah, it's a contract they offered

626
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: me one several years ago where it's like, we'll give

627
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: you because if you're going to leave your full time

628
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: job based on the hope that people are going to

629
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: fund your you know, at five six dollars a month

630
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: fund your substack, then what they were doing is they

631
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: were giving a kind of yes, here's a minimum to

632
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: make sure you pay your mortgage and entice you to

633
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: come over. They don't do that anymore. What they found,

634
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: I think is that a lot of people were coasting.

635
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: Like it worked for some of the biggest names like Iglesias, Tayibe,

636
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: Andrew Sullivan, like did he take one? I don't remember

637
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: if he took one to that it worked for them

638
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: because they ended up bringing in a lot more you know,

639
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: readership than the minimum paid out. So it was a

640
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: gamble like am I going to get? Because if you

641
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: end up getting if they offer you two hundred thousand

642
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,479
Speaker 1: dollars and you make a million, but they keep most

643
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: of that extra. But if they offer you tw hundred thousand,

644
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: you're only bring in fifty. Well, now you didn't get

645
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: evicted because you didn't get four clothes on. So anyway,

646
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: these substackt deals were widely known. Musk then tweeted, if

647
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: you remember, apparently Matt Tabee is or was employed by substecs.

648
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: So he read this full exchange that he had privately

649
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: with Mett and then publicly tweeted that he was employed,

650
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: which is which wasn't true, as though he had inside

651
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: secret information that Matt had told him he was somehow

652
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: actually employed, he had some other source like when in

653
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: fact the source was Matt. He was telling him the

654
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: truth about how substack. And to me, it seems like

655
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: Musk is having a hard time understanding a company that

656
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 1: pays its creators, or that has a relationship that sends

657
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: money to creators, rather than one that the relationship goes

658
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: the other way. Give us your eight dollars a month. Yeah,

659
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: it might be like that. I mean, I also think

660
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: he just has a million pots on the stove right

661
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: now and is very transparently working through his different issues

662
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: on public forums. He tweets this, then deletes it, I think,

663
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: and this is in the broader context of him being

664
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,959
Speaker 1: upset that Substack launched a notes feature that he thinks

665
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: is competitive with Twitter, which is where the whole feud

666
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: between Musk and Tayebe started. That's because he tweeted that

667
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: Tybee was apparently an employee of Substack to undercut Tayeebee's

668
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: points about out why he was not going to be

669
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: on Twitter anymore, was not going to be working on

670
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: the Twitter files anymore, and so that was where Musk

671
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: was coming from in tweeting that out. I really just think, like,

672
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: honestly goodness, I think Elon Musk is working on like

673
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: huge all of these huge, different projects he's trying to

674
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: make Twitter he now says he has it in shape

675
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: to break even instead of running that like three million

676
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: dollar annual deficit that he said it was running when

677
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: he took over. And he's just he's so public in

678
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,959
Speaker 1: dealing with these different workplace issues, like he's actually dealt

679
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: with basically human resources issues on Twitter, and so when

680
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: you can see it all playing out in real time

681
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: for someone who's extremely busy, sort of aggressive and combative,

682
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: it's just weird. And I think that's where you get

683
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: to him deleting this because it's he's inaccurate. He's interpreting

684
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: this stuff inaccurately. He probably realized that he shouldn't have

685
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: tweeted this out. It got members of Congress to say, well,

686
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: now we know when Matt Tayebi wouldn't give up his

687
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: sources when they were pressing him for sources in that

688
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: absurd congressional hearing where Democrats beclowned themselves about a month ago,

689
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: they were like, well, now we know Musk is tayebe source.

690
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, well, what took you off? It's great work,

691
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: you guys. And since now everybody apparently knows that Musk

692
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: seems like he's the only one who didn't know that.

693
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: His relationship with Tayabe is one as a source to

694
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: a journalist, and so many sources just don't understand what

695
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: that is like. So git here, if you could put

696
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: up this second element, put up one of my favorite

697
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: quotes out there. Every journalist who is not too stupid

698
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: or full of himself to notice what is going on

699
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: knows that what he does is morally indefensible. He is

700
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: a kind of confidence man preying on people's vanity, ignorance,

701
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse.

702
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: That's an iconic quote from the book The Journalist and

703
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: the Murderer by Janet Malcolm, and he goes into the

704
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: psychology and the psychopathology of the relationship between sources and

705
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: journalists and just how amazing it is the way that

706
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: sources kind of open up to journalists expect that there's

707
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: this like two way relationship when the source is also

708
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 1: often a subject, and the journalist is going to take

709
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: take what they can and need from that source and

710
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: pull in from other sources as well, and produce journalism

711
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: that is not necessarily going to be exactly what the

712
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: source wanted, and the source will then be shocked that

713
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: the journalists when the story is over, it's like no, no, no,

714
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to notes. Yeah, we're not friends. Well, and

715
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: it's also, I mean, the vast majority of the Twitter

716
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: files reporting has been document based. It hasn't been relying

717
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: on unnamed sources or there's been some lots of there's

718
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: been reporting, but it doesn't seem like it was going

719
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: to Musk because Musk wasn't there right the time. You

720
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't know. But they did interview a lot of of

721
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: like former vice presidents and former engineers and that sort

722
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, they've they've gotten information from them. But

723
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: I feel like the backbone of every ting I've learned

724
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: from the Twitter fows is document based. You see it

725
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: in everybody's own words. And it's true that must gave

726
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: them access. That's publicly knowledge. We know that must gave

727
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: them access because he talked about how he gave them access,

728
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: and Matt talked about how he gave them access. So

729
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: none of that is like shocking. And for people to

730
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: say like this is a dunk on Tayibe, I think

731
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. What you see here is some decent source

732
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: massaging where he says, understandably, if I was at Twitter,

733
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: it would have been a major optics issue for us,

734
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: both right, and he's not wrong about that. It would

735
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: have looked ridiculous. He couldn't He honestly couldn't have reported

736
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: that story if he was totally beholden to Twitter as

737
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: an employee or anything like that. That's totally journalism. Yeah, no,

738
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: that's not journalism. So, speaking of notes, if we can

739
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: put up this this stir one here so no it

740
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: has rolled out. This is substack basically version of Twitter.

741
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: Are you on substack? No, you can get on substack.

742
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: So I'm on substack. I've been on there since like

743
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen or something. Yeah, you're an early adopter. Yeah,

744
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: my newsletters called bad News. I mean, I think it

745
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: might change the name back to just Ryan. Maybe I'll

746
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 1: stick with bad news anyway, go find bad news on there.

747
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: I've been doing a newsletter since before Substack. I've been

748
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: talking to these guys since the very beginning. I'm really

749
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: proud and excited for, you know, what they've been able

750
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: to build. And I think they've done a really actually

751
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: good job of creating space for free and open expression

752
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: without kind of getting pigeonholed as kind of reactionary right wing,

753
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: like has happened to a lot of other platforms that

754
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: tried to do that. And I think that's like impressive

755
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 1: on their front because it's so it is so important

756
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: to end the value of open expression is not inherently

757
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: right wing, and so for them to have been able

758
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: to swim against that, I think has been impressed. And

759
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: you can imagine when you look at this notes app

760
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: why Elon Musk is like, hmm, that looks a lot

761
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: like Twitter. Oh yeah, I still don't think it's really

762
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,959
Speaker 1: a competitor to Twitter, though, because in the same sense

763
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: that like, it's hard for us to apply our definition

764
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: of monopoly to Facebook or Instagram, because people would say, well,

765
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: Twitter is a competitor. Up here, people want to see

766
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: what it looks like. Yeah, take a look at this.

767
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: If you're watching this is what Yeah, you can see

768
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 1: how it looks similar to Twitter. I mean, it actually

769
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: does really look similar to Twitter. And it makes sense

770
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: that Elon Musk would retaliate. That's how business goes. He says,

771
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: I'm drawing a red line in the sand here. It's

772
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: weird to pick on Tayibi out of all of that,

773
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: but that is to say, the point of Facebook isn't

774
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 1: really a competitor to TikTok. As a competitor in your time,

775
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: but you can't like the point of Facebook is that

776
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: every person is on the same platform. Every person is

777
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: on the same platform with Twitter, every person is on

778
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: the same platform. When it comes to TikTok, that's the

779
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: point of your feed. Your feet is supposed to be encompassing.

780
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily know that it's a good apples

781
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: to apples to say that this is a competitor. But

782
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: at the same time, I think you're right that what

783
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: substack has done is so impressive as a business, and

784
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: part of it is a good lesson I think to

785
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: other people in C suites, which is they just draw

786
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: redline on content. They say, we are not getting involved

787
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: in content decisions. And I think being upfront about that

788
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: and being very bold about that, never ever wavering on

789
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: it is so so important because when you do that,

790
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 1: it gives you cover when stuff comes at you from

791
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: the left, when stuff comes at you from the right.

792
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: It's a good lesson for Twitter actually too, because I

793
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: think it's what Elon Musk sort of aspires to be.

794
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: But Twitter still can't quite do because it gets involved

795
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: in content moderation more than it should. And what Substack

796
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: I think is trying to do is what Jack Dorsey

797
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: suggested in a post that you just put up I

798
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: think last night, if we could put up the fifth

799
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: element here, which is basically to say that you should

800
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 1: not be able to, you know, take content that a

801
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: creator created and put on the Internet. Nobody else but

802
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: the creator of it, the author of it, should be

803
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: able to take that off the Internet. Where the where

804
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: the role of the Internet and the public comes in

805
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: is how you how you moderate and how you amplify

806
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: those comments. So in other words, it might it's okay

807
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: to leave terrible things up. Yeah, the problem comes if

808
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: you're taking terrible things and just shoving them in everybody's face.

809
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: And so what subsect tries to do is allow you

810
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: to curate very carefully, you know what it is that

811
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: you want to see. Uh. Elon Must did an interview

812
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: with the BBC last night on spaces and it became

813
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: this big fight between the BBC reporter and Musk where

814
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: BBC reporter was saying, my for you tab is just garbage.

815
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: It's like a bunch of trash that I don't want,

816
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 1: and he said that I'm seeing a lot of things

817
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: that are he used the phrase hateful, and then Must

818
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: ask him to define that. He was like, well, they're

819
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: slightly sexists and slightly racist, and Must is like, give

820
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: me some examples, and he's like, I haven't looked at

821
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: the for you tab for three weeks because it's just

822
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: a stream of garbage. And Mast's like, aha, you say

823
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: that they're slightly racist likely sexist. Things in the for

824
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: youtab but you can't name a single example of it.

825
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: But what he's trying to get at is something deeper,

826
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: which is their BBC reporter, which is that he didn't

827
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: want all this for you stuff. It's Twitter that was like,

828
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: we think this stuff is for you, whereas what substack

829
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: is saying, and what Jack Dorsey's suggesting is give people

830
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: more of an ability to choose their own algorithmic experience.

831
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: Like he said, you should there should be a g

832
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: rated algorithm that you can choose from the other, and

833
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 1: then other algorithms that were you can transparently decide this

834
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: is the way that I'd like to have my feed

835
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,280
Speaker 1: shaped and these are the people that I want to follow.

836
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: Because social media companies, YouTube among them, have gotten away

837
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: from the idea that if you click subscribe or you

838
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: click follow, that that means anything. They don't care. They're like, no,

839
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: we know what you're going to interact with better than

840
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: you do, and we think engagement is more important than

841
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: your own conscious choice of what you want. And that's

842
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: what really pisss me off about the four you tab

843
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter, which will just you get toggled onto by default.

844
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: It tries to insane right right, right, right, because you

845
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: get pushed way more divisive content and this is just

846
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: my interpretation, more divisive, viral, annoying content than what you've

847
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: curated for yourself. Which is the cool thing about Twitter.

848
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: It's one of the coolest ways to curate news because

849
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: it's exactly what you're asking for. It's you know, you

850
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: can follow all of the different outlets that you really like,

851
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: that you really trust, whether they're on the left or

852
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 1: the right. You can pepper some celebrity content, some Vanderbunkerules

853
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: content in there, the promo content that Ryan lives be it,

854
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: let me choose it, yes, right, right, right, And it's

855
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: there's no algorithm that's going to do that because it's

856
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: not me. No matter how much it thinks it's me,

857
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: it's not so anyway. And it's all just a great

858
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: reminder that we are are guinea pigs in the real

859
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: time process of theorizing how some of this technology is

860
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: best employed, the sort of capitalistic philosophy behind the ethics

861
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: of it. And you know, it's a reminder like what

862
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: brandeis when he's writing about privacy, he's writing about photography, right,

863
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: the ethics of photography, And that's really wasn't all that

864
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: long ago. So in the same way that people who

865
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: were suddenly being photographed and immortalized, there were big philosophical

866
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: privacy questions about that. There still are. That's a lot

867
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: what we're getting into right now with the content we

868
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 1: self publish online and real quickly. I'll just read from

869
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey because two interesting things where he waiting. One

870
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: he said everything that happened to Twitter is my fault.

871
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: He's like, in twenty twenty, we had an activist investor

872
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: who came on to the board. If you're watching Succession,

873
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: you guys know how this works. They didn't like the

874
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: way that I wanted to approach free expression and the

875
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: user's relationship to the algorithm, and I gave up and

876
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: made my exit strategy. I left Twitter, and I feel

877
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: terrible about that. So that's that's part one of what

878
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: he says on the On the Twitter files, he says,

879
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: I do believe absolute transparency builds trust. As for the files,

880
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: I wish they were released wikileague style with many more

881
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: eyes and interpretations to consider, and along with that commitments

882
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: of transparency for present and future actions. I'm hopeful all

883
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: of this will happen. There's nothing to hide only a

884
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: lot to learn. The current attacks on my former colleagues

885
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: could be dangerous and doesn't solve anything if you want

886
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: to blame directed at me and my actions or lack thereof.

887
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: And he's he's his full piece, which you can get

888
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: up at Abla dot news is called a Native Internet

889
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: Protocol for social media, which is laying out the kind

890
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: of intellectual rationale for his basically new kind of attempt

891
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 1: at building the social media company or organization that that does.

892
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: He what he's talking about gives freedom to users to

893
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: post basically whatever they want, but then gives other protocols

894
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: the ability to moderate and amplify that in ways that

895
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: are hopefully creating a better experience for people. Do we

896
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: have inflation numbers? By the way we do there we

897
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: go okay, So inflation numbers are out. Bapasani is a

898
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: CNBC reporter. He calls it Goldielocks CPI. Just the markets

899
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,479
Speaker 1: are very, very excited by these numbers. So he's March

900
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: core CPI. So core CPI. That's Those are the inflation

901
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: numbers that do not include kind of volatile fuel and

902
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: food prices are up zero point four percent month over month,

903
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: which is in line with expectations. Last month it was

904
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: zero point five percent, So that's actually a significant drop

905
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: when you go from point five to point four. That

906
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: that meant that year over year, year over year inflation

907
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: was five point five percent. The expectations have been five

908
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: point six percent, So it's cooling at an even faster

909
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: rate than people expected that it would. As a result,

910
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: the market is rallying on that because they think that

911
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: that means that the Federal Reserve is then going to

912
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: ease off on its interest rate cuts. One reason they're

913
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: easing off on their interest rate cuts, though, ironically, is

914
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: at the point of an interest rate cut is to

915
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: restrict lending, restrict credit, and banks have been doing that

916
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 1: on their own because they're like, oh, whoops, we're about

917
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: to get a bank run and collapse, and so you're

918
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: functionally you're getting a lot of the same thing. Basically,

919
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: my read on this, and I'm curious for your take,

920
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: is that this is just an extraordinary vindication for they

921
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: basically Knesian style Bidenomics that rushed out of the gate

922
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: with the one point nine tillion dollar American Rescue plan,

923
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: with the hundreds of billions in what the Chips Act

924
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: and You've got the IRA, which was you know, something

925
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: like seven hundred billion dollars over a couple of years

926
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 1: of spending. You had from the kind of Reaganomics Obama

927
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: nomics types, Larry Summers types saying this is going to

928
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: create runaway inflation. Barry Summers said, We're going to have

929
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, endemic endless inflation as a result of this,

930
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: and that Biden's American Rescue Plan and his other spending

931
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: are going to go down in his treers one of

932
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: the great economic mistakes because they produced way too much

933
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: demand in the economy, and Biden was saying no. Jennet

934
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:43,280
Speaker 1: Yellen was saying no, saying no, we like, we believe

935
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: this is this is transitory, and they get mocked a

936
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: lot for that because transitory if if the next week

937
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: it's still going people were like, you said this was

938
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: going to be over and say, well, we didn't mean

939
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: it was going to be over in a week. So

940
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 1: to be to be heading this consistently down for about

941
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: a ye year now, I think demonstrates that there was

942
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: a lot more capacity in the economy to be invested

943
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: in and to produce than people thought. Now separately, and

944
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: I think it's important to separate this out. Housing prices

945
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: are still killing people, but I don't think that's either

946
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: fiscal or interest rate right now, you can say it's

947
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 1: interest rate relating in a sense that it's pushing up

948
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: asset prices. But if you don't ever build any new housing,

949
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,320
Speaker 1: then you're just and the population keeps growing and wages grow,

950
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: even if they grow in line with inflation, you're going

951
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: to have runaway housing prices. So that's I think you

952
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: have to have a separate housing policy that addresses that.

953
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: But anyway, so that so my read on this is

954
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: that it's a vindication for a kind of progressive economic

955
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: vision for the economy. What's the Do you have the

956
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: breakdown of where it's I'm trying to look for it now,

957
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: but these numbers are coming out as we're speaking here,

958
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: so it's always interesting to see where CPI is, like

959
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: it's uneven in some cases, and to your point about

960
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: interest So right, so headline inflation even better, zero point

961
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 1: one percent in March, practically flat and five percent year

962
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: over year, which is you know, that's not the nine Like,

963
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: that's not the nine percent that you can kind of

964
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: scare people with. I think people now, people I think

965
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: still are feeling a lot of pain because of basically

966
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: because of rent and housing prices. So is it the

967
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: soft landing that was much mocked so far? Yeah, so

968
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 1: so far you do have and we should get you know,

969
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,479
Speaker 1: we could get stoler back on here. I'm sure he'd

970
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: like to do a victory lap over because if if

971
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: you can continue to have wages at the bottom quintile,

972
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: because that's what that's what people need. If you look

973
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: at the data, people say, well, who wants is better off?

974
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: Since Biden became president, everybody in the bottom twenty percent

975
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: has seen like significant wage increases over inflation. Now, if

976
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 1: they're facing if they're facing rent problems, if they didn't

977
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 1: have a locked in lease, or they're you know, otherwise

978
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: screwed when it comes to housing, they're not appreciating those

979
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: wage increases in the way that they would otherwise. But

980
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: that's why I'm saying those are separate things. In some ways,

981
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 1: you have to figure out ways to deal with the

982
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: housing crisis that are independent of this, the broader wage

983
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 1: fight that we're having. Well, and I was going to say,

984
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: speaking of an even this, I'm looking at the breakdown now,

985
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: like Brian said, these were breaking as we're talking, which

986
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,160
Speaker 1: is why we wanted to cover it live. But grocery

987
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: prices is from the Hill drops substantially to an eight

988
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: point four percent annual increase from ten point two percent

989
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: last month. Food prices, which are some of the inflation

990
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: that consumers feed most fuel most acutely. They read it

991
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,399
Speaker 1: as feed most acutely, which is kind of funny, are

992
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: still running much hotter than inflation. Overall, fruits and vegetables

993
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: drop by one point three percent of the month, will

994
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,439
Speaker 1: meets declined by one point four percent. So obviously there's

995
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: still stuff that consumers are going to be feeling pretty badly.

996
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: And so that's where the Biden administration their attempts to

997
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: say we're handling this, there's just so soft landing here

998
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: get really tricky. It's not to say there isn't truth

999
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: to it, it's just to say it's a tough sell

1000
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: political right, some other context. This the headline increase was

1001
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: the smallest since June of twenty twenty one, which is

1002
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: when you really saw the kind of the economy reopening

1003
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 1: and inflation really kicking off. You also found what they

1004
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: call shelter costs, rent and housing the smallest gain since November,

1005
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: so a point six percent increase, but that still resulted

1006
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: in prices rising eight point two percent on an annual basis.

1007
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: And so that's where you see this increasingly difficult society

1008
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,760
Speaker 1: to live in, because if you continue to have shelter

1009
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: costs rising at over eight percent and wages rising at

1010
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: less than that, because shelter makes up an increasing amount

1011
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: of your monthly income, the rest of the rest of

1012
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: the inflation numbers coming down don't help you as much. Yeah, no,

1013
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 1: I think that's true. There's also, I mean, there's just

1014
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 1: so much going on here in this conversation because you

1015
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: can you can also look at obviously we've talked about

1016
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: corporate greed increasing inflation over the course of the last

1017
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 1: year or more, and we've also talked about rising wages

1018
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 1: for the bottom you know, quintile or quartile and quarter

1019
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: quarter the coffee. By the way, this morning, jet Fields,

1020
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: So I've only about halfway done of it, halfway done

1021
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: with it. Jacked up it came out, but not because

1022
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 1: I don't think I can drink. It came out looking

1023
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:55,479
Speaker 1: like hot fudge. But anyway, all that is to say,

1024
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 1: I hope that some of the rising or the price

1025
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: gouging has contributed to rising wages. I hope that that's

1026
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: the case, but there's also also serious case that a

1027
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 1: lot of bidings, biden spending put consumers in this position

1028
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: in the first place. And I think a good takeaway

1029
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: from all of that is our system is way too

1030
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: concentrated in the hands of small groups of powerful, powerful people,

1031
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: and the system is completely perverted because of that. And

1032
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 1: when they try to reverse engineer the things that in

1033
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: some cases they caused. I mean, inflation isn't great for

1034
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: every person in a C suite across the country, when

1035
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: they try to reverse engineer it, they find themselves just

1036
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:42,479
Speaker 1: they're so hapless, right. And also when the one tool

1037
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: that they have raising interest rates, also it cools the

1038
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: housing market in a good way in the sense that

1039
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: it pushes down asset prices. But at the same time,

1040
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: rising asset prices are a signal to builders to build

1041
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: more housing. And so if now interest rates are going

1042
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: up and uh, and you're putting off, you're putting kind

1043
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: of a hold on a bunch of projects. That's that's

1044
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: the opposite of what you need, Like you need to

1045
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: figure out a way you can pull asset prices down

1046
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: but also produce more housing. And if you only rely

1047
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: on those two tools, then you're not gonna be able

1048
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: to do that. But if you say no, as as

1049
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: a as a public, we want to invest in this

1050
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: like housing is basically one hundred percent creation of government policy,

1051
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: like from the from the New Deal till now, the

1052
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: thirty year mortgage, all the other regulations, the back, the

1053
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: back we we we developed, the suburbs, we developed. All

1054
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: of this was by design. You can't have it without highways,

1055
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: right and we can. We can. So if it's done

1056
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: by design, we can. We can redesign it and we

1057
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: and we have to do that because even if wages

1058
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 1: are rising at the bottom by five or six percent,

1059
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: if housing it even at this pace, is rising by

1060
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: eight percent, people are still falling behind. And and it

1061
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: hits people very, very differently. People don't get necessarily an

1062
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: average every month increase in their housing costs. It's like

1063
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: you got your lease for a year, and then when

1064
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: you've got to find a new place, now you're paying

1065
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: twenty percent more than you were before. Well, and this

1066
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: is where I give credit to libertarians, because they have

1067
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: an ideologically consistent and I think more more credible response,

1068
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: which is, it's nonsense to pretend that the free market

1069
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: is what's distorting and creating problems in housing. It's the

1070
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: combination of this like faux free market with massive subsidies

1071
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: in government design that has things completely jacked up. And

1072
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: so I think your response would be to have more

1073
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: government design to have If the government is going to

1074
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: be involved, which should be, it should make it smart,

1075
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: like this policy should actually be workable and benefit consumers

1076
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: and benefit voters. I would suggest probably rolling back government

1077
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: intervention in housing because I think it probably produce better results.

1078
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: But either way we can What we can agree on

1079
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: now is again you're at the worst of both worlds,

1080
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: where you have crony government policy and crony capitalist policy,

1081
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:05,919
Speaker 1: and it's just terrible. And we can't get a chance

1082
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: to talk in today's show about the big news out

1083
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: of Colorado, which is the Biden administration has put out

1084
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: a different a couple different policy proposals around the Colorado River,

1085
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: one which would basically say Arizona doesn't exist anymore. Another

1086
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: would say that we're going to be in court with

1087
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 1: California for the next several decades over their water rights.

1088
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: And so it is funny to think about interest rate

1089
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: policy as our number one tool for prices when you're

1090
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: running and when the Colorado River is running dry on

1091
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: the Hoover Dam is like on the brink of no

1092
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: longer producing hydro electric power. It's like there's nothing the

1093
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: Fed can do with interest rate policy or quantitative easing

1094
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: that is going to do anything about that. Like, these

1095
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: are problems that our are constantly growing economy is going

1096
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: to have to address as it impacts reality. I can't

1097
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: get over how bad this coffee is. Moving on to

1098
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: big tech. Let's put this up on the screen. This

1099
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: is actually a report from the Federalist this week that

1100
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: I think deserves more attention. This is quoting from Margo

1101
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: Cleveland's reporting here, the federal government pedal technology to big

1102
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: tech companies to assist them in censoring American speech on

1103
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: social media in the run up to the twenty twenty election.

1104
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: That is according to emails Missouri and Louisiana uncovered in

1105
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: their First Amendment lawsuit against the Biden administration. We've covered

1106
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: that suit. There's some interesting stuff coming out of it,

1107
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 1: and this is no exception. Margo continues to say, specifically,

1108
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: the State Department marketed the censorship technology through its Global

1109
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: Engagement Center. If you've been following the Twitter file as,

1110
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: you recognize the GEC. If you've been following the State

1111
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: Department for years, you recognized the name of the GEC.

1112
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 1: In other words, our tax dollars not only funded the

1113
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: development of tools to silence speech that dissented from the

1114
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: regime's narrative, they also paid for government employees to act

1115
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: as sales reps, pitching the censorship products to big tech. Now,

1116
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: there's some emails that show in twenty twenty, federal government

1117
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: employees were contacting social media platforms to promote the GEC's disinfocloud,

1118
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: and they were promoting it like sales reps for a

1119
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: product basically, and GEC represented this government product and it

1120
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: was saying it would give quote companies, technology companies, technology

1121
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: and tools to assist with identifying, understanding, and addressing disinformation,

1122
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: and then it gave some of these private tech companies

1123
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: access to disinfocloud. That's really similar to how GEC was

1124
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: describing infocloud and congressional testimony recently. And even the State

1125
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: Department's website marketed as quote a one stop shop to

1126
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 1: identify and then test tools that counter propaganda and disinformation,

1127
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: which they were relying on NewsGuard ratings partially. I think

1128
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: that's an important part of this report. NewsGuard ratings probably

1129
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: better than some other groups. They're relatively willing at least

1130
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: to engage with different publications, but still downvote publications that

1131
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: promote information that dissents from sort of the official narrative.

1132
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: And when you again, that's fine as a private business

1133
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: if NewsGuard wants to do that, but when you end

1134
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: up colluding with the federal government, the State Department in

1135
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: election related issues, that's where you get into problems. Because

1136
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: we know this never just stops, as Lefong is reported,

1137
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: I think really powerful in the intersept It never just

1138
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: stops with actual propaganda. What we've seen over the last

1139
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: five ten years, longer than that you count the years

1140
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: after nine to eleven, is this lumping in of legitimate

1141
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: American speech with propaganda that they cannot help themselves from doing.

1142
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: We have run that experiment, we know the results. We

1143
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: know that they're not just stopping with legitimate Russian, Chinese propaganda.

1144
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: It's not happening. They are lumping other legitimate speech into it.

1145
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: So I think this is really concerning and you couple

1146
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 1: that with something we can put up on the screen. Here,

1147
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: a Daily Caller report that found Google, Twitter, Meta and

1148
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: TikTok's executive ranks have included over two hundred former employees

1149
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: of surveillance government agencies, creating an employment pipeline between the

1150
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: government and big tech companies. That's according to the Callers investigation.

1151
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: They basically scraped linked in and found that those tech

1152
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: companies recruited two hundred and forty eight employees from the DOJ, FBI, CIA,

1153
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 1: and dh AS between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty two

1154
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: for the most part. And they're feeling, you know, as

1155
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: the caller says, top director positions with people who spent

1156
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: more than a decade in some of those agencies. Yeah,

1157
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm kind of pessimistic that we're going to ever wind

1158
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: up in any neutral space when it comes to this.

1159
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: It feels like to me that and I think that's

1160
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: because you know, as we have this hyper polarization kind

1161
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: of whoever, you know, as you move, even if you

1162
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: move from you know, big tech into government or government

1163
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,959
Speaker 1: into big tech, if you feel like your team blue,

1164
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: then you're going to bring that kind of tribal attitude

1165
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: with you. If you're feeling your team red, you're going

1166
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,960
Speaker 1: to bring that attitude with you. But is it more

1167
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: team Natsck like, isn't it? That's what I which is

1168
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 1: increasingly blue. It feels like right, because it's Peter Struck

1169
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: and Lisa Page, it's Andy McCabe, it's you know, they

1170
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: may actually vote for George Bush or Jeb Bush, but

1171
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: they're never going to vote for it, probably Bernie Sanders.

1172
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 1: They're never going to vote for Donald Trump. And again,

1173
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: like everyone is fine to make those personal decisions for

1174
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: themselves and to vote in their different ways, but when

1175
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: you're carrying that water on behalf of the government and

1176
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 1: then bringing it into the corporate sector, the same that

1177
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: we've seen the revolving door be problematic with the FDA

1178
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: and what you know over the course of American history

1179
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: the last one hundred years, Basically, when you see that

1180
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 1: happen in these these companies that are doing something unprecedented

1181
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: with surveillance capitalism, with data that is insane, and I

1182
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: think it's worse that it's not strictly Team Read and

1183
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 1: Team Blue. They aren't, I would say, increasingly team Blue.

1184
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,000
Speaker 1: Even though in the past, they were starkly team Red.

1185
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 1: That is terrifying and I feel like and we probably

1186
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: got to get move into your title nine thing pretty soon.

1187
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: If we're going to get to Marianne and Julian asangent

1188
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: time to me. I guess my final take on this

1189
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: will be if the government is going to participate in this,

1190
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: they're only the only thing they have left to do

1191
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: is be just one hundred percent fully transparent about it. Like, look,

1192
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: you're the dhs DJ whoever, and you have thoughts on

1193
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: what information is flowing around. Post it, yeah, post it,

1194
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: and post your citations. Tell us that you think this

1195
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 1: this person in Kansas who really likes Donald Trump and

1196
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: doesn't care that he's you know, that press conference with Putin.

1197
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: Tell us why you think they're working for Russia. Say

1198
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: it with your chest, give us some citations, and then

1199
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: let us decide. Rather than in this back channel thing

1200
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: where you have a portal where you can tell you

1201
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: employees a Twitter who then are then are stuck in

1202
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: the position of either rejecting the most powerful government on

1203
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: the planet's request or accepting their request and censoring some

1204
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: type of account. Just let go and then and then

1205
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: people if they want if they trust the DHS and

1206
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 1: DJ they can use that information to kind of curate

1207
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: their own information diet. But I think they have lost

1208
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 1: if they ever had the ability to do this with

1209
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 1: any authority, kind of surreptitiously well and again like just

1210
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: just surround this out. That's why relying on NewsGuard is

1211
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: such nonsense, because the corporate press completely botched got Pilitz

1212
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:49,479
Speaker 1: surprises for batching the Russia collusion investigation the Federalist which

1213
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 1: obviously has we wigh fewer resources and money. So we

1214
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: can't be in Ukraine, we can't be in Moscow, we

1215
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: can't be everywhere doing all of the sort of international reporting,

1216
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: and we don't have bureaus all over the country. But

1217
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: we got that much much much more accurate then the

1218
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:11,960
Speaker 1: vast majority of corporate media, even though NewsGuard will penalize

1219
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,439
Speaker 1: us in ways that they won't penalize the corporate media.

1220
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: So when the government is relying on NewsGuard to in

1221
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: its software and to help tech companies censor propaganda, you

1222
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: see exactly how it's a vicious cycle. And the Times

1223
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: is a big thing. The Times should have put in

1224
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,720
Speaker 1: ken Vogel's work on Ukraine. Yes, for its Pultzer. They

1225
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: should have that. He was way ahead on that. Yeah,

1226
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:39,719
Speaker 1: he was, he was. Title nine. There are new rules

1227
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 1: out and you've got some You've got a breakdown, Yeah,

1228
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of a breakdown here. As we were

1229
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 1: actually prepping counterpoints last week, the Biden administration ruled out

1230
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: it's long away to Title nine rule related to athletics.

1231
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 1: It's a proposal, it's more than one hundred pages long,

1232
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:56,719
Speaker 1: and it marked a slight departure from what I expected,

1233
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: at least in style, if not in substance. So we

1234
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: took a breath and dug in before going too wild

1235
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: with it. So as a quick reminder, Title nine, as

1236
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, is a Nixon era law nineteen seventy two

1237
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: that has come to dictate policies on everything from sexual

1238
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: assault to sports. It was just one short part of

1239
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: a larger bill, so we can read the full text here.

1240
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 1: Here's what it says. No person in the United States shall,

1241
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in,

1242
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 1: be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination

1243
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.

1244
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: For years, Title nine was best known for its controversial

1245
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: effect on men's sports. But in the Obama era it

1246
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 1: became a lightning rod when the Education Department issued a

1247
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: series of Dear Colleague letters on sexual assault and gender identity. Essentially,

1248
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: they made federal funding contingent on schools reading sex and

1249
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,759
Speaker 1: Title nine as gender identity and on conforming their sexual

1250
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: assault policies to standards that bipartisan experts eventually denounced as

1251
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:58,600
Speaker 1: kangaroo courts. Plus, Dear Colleague letters are anti democratic expansions

1252
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,480
Speaker 1: of executive power that allow unelected DC bureaucrats to legislate

1253
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: via a letter. So on both counts it was a mess,

1254
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 1: So much so that when Betsy Devas walked back the

1255
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 1: sexual assault policies, even the editorial board of the Washington

1256
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: Posts and a lot of other people on the left

1257
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 1: sided with her. When it comes to sports, I expected

1258
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: the Biden administration to basically revert back to pretty much

1259
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 1: what Obama did and simply stay sex is gender identity.

1260
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 1: Therefore there can be no legal distinctions between the two

1261
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 1: in sports, or locker rooms or anywhere else. This is

1262
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: basically what the boss Stoc decision that Neil Gorsuch wrote

1263
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: the opinion for did with Title seven when it comes

1264
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,759
Speaker 1: to employment. Now, when it comes to sports, that reading

1265
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: is totally backwards. Title nine is remembered as an achievement

1266
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 1: of the American Women's movement because it gave women greater

1267
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: access to athletics. I've talked to at least three different

1268
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: kids involved in legal battles who all told me the

1269
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: gender identity interpretation is costing girls scholarships, as single male

1270
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: athletes can dominate in regional leagues. It can also, of course,

1271
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 1: girls in danger when they're forced into contact sports with

1272
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 1: people who are at least on average stronger. But instead

1273
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 1: of going down the Obama route, Biden's Education Department devised

1274
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: what they probably think is a very clever workaround. As

1275
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: you read the proposed rule, you realize they're essentially creating

1276
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: burdens for schools who wish to prevent discrimination on the

1277
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: basis of sex. As title line says, this is where

1278
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 1: I'm glad we waited to cover the rule, expecting something

1279
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: more along the lines of what Obama did. Immediate reactions

1280
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 1: to the proposals seem to suggest it marked some kind

1281
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,840
Speaker 1: of compromise that's really only true on the most superficial level.

1282
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 1: If gender identity is the exact same thing as sex.

1283
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: Then it makes no sense whatsoever to say, Hey, schools

1284
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 1: can discriminate on the basis of sex if they can

1285
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: prove it's actually good. You either believe that gender identity

1286
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: and sex are the same or you don't, and placing

1287
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 1: the burden on schools who are actually trying to follow

1288
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: the spirit of the original law by preventing sex discrimination

1289
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 1: to prove that they should be able to do that,

1290
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 1: just reinstating the Obama rule with packaging that's meant to

1291
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: be kind of distracting. Here's how the New York Times

1292
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: interpreted the rule. Quote. Elementary school students would generally be

1293
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 1: able to participate on teams matching their identity. But as

1294
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 1: students get older and go through puberty, and as competition increases,

1295
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,640
Speaker 1: schools and athletic organizations would make a multi pronged assessment

1296
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 1: of whether or not to restrict transgender athletes from playing

1297
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: on their preferred team. The age of the students, the

1298
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: level of the fairness, and the nature of the sport

1299
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: would be among the considerations. All right, so that sport,

1300
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: the age of the students, all of those things. Let's

1301
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,759
Speaker 1: consider that phrase. The New York Times used multi pronged

1302
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 1: assessment for just a moment. If the rule remains unchanged

1303
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: after the thirty day comment period, we're now in. That's

1304
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,720
Speaker 1: what schools are going to have to undergo to do

1305
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,719
Speaker 1: what feminists in the seventies fought for, the multi pronged

1306
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: assessment on all of those counts, age, sport, et cetera.

1307
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: So that shows us clearly it's the exception and not

1308
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 1: the norm. Theoretically, the Biden administration wants to argue that

1309
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: it's created a pathway for schools to do what they

1310
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: think is best, but in practice, we have no idea

1311
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:09,440
Speaker 1: how often those quote multi pronged assessments would be approved.

1312
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 1: Plus it's absolutely absurd to force schools to ask the

1313
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 1: Department of Education for permission to discriminate against women. But

1314
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: of course, even this radical definition of sex as gender identity,

1315
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 1: except when a school can prove to the federal government

1316
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: it should be otherwise, did not satisfy professional activists. On Monday,

1317
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: trans lawmakers from around the country sent Biden a letter quote.

1318
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: While we understand the administration may have been attempting to

1319
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 1: provide legal protections and clarity, in actuality, this proposed rule

1320
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: changes will simply provide those who seek to deny us

1321
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: are write a roadmap for how to do so. The

1322
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 1: letter read. The decision was criticized by everyone from HRC

1323
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:49,599
Speaker 1: to AOC. Well, why, I mean, first of all, again,

1324
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 1: you either believe sexist gender identity or you don't. And

1325
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: the Biden administration hedging and that makes no sense. But

1326
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: if it did, if this rule provides quote a roadmap,

1327
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: as that letter argues, really have to squint. Here is

1328
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 1: exactly what the proposal reads. The proposed regulation would require

1329
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 1: that if a recipient adopts or applies sexuated criteria, that

1330
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: it would limit or deny students eligibility to participate on

1331
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 1: a male or female team consistent with their gender identity.

1332
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 1: Such criteria must for each sport level of competition at

1333
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 1: greater education level, one be substantially related to the achievement

1334
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: of an important educational objective, and two minimize harms to

1335
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:26,639
Speaker 1: students whose opportunity to participate on a male or female

1336
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 1: team consistent with their gender identity would be limited or denied.

1337
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 1: The proposed regulation would not affect a recipient's discretion to

1338
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: offer separate male and female athletic teams when selection is

1339
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: based on competitive skill or the activity involved as a

1340
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 1: contact sport. So not only do you have to meet

1341
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,080
Speaker 1: all of that criteria, you also then have to minimize

1342
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: harms and meet criteria to do that. If you don't

1343
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: do this to the satisfaction of the Education Department, you

1344
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: risk losing your federal funding. The incentive for schools to

1345
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:55,640
Speaker 1: test those limits is remarkably low. It's also absurd that

1346
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 1: we're so accustomed to federal power graphs right now that

1347
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 1: executive branch issues aren't even a part of this conversation.

1348
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: It's worth remembering that the Obama era Dear Colleague Letter

1349
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 1: on gender identity made decisions for schools everywhere from Brooklyn

1350
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 1: to rural Kansas, dramatically changing their day to day operations

1351
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: in one fell swoop. We have the system of federalism

1352
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: we do in order to avoid precisely this, and what

1353
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 1: happened in the subsequent years is why this is key.

1354
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:26,679
Speaker 1: Rather than allowing communities to sort these different, these extremely

1355
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: difficult questions and issues out on their own democratically and

1356
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,360
Speaker 1: come to the right consensus, Washington did it for the

1357
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: whole country at once. Gender identity is just not as

1358
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 1: clear cut a category. It's just not the same thing,

1359
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,400
Speaker 1: and that by its very definition, and that's by the

1360
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: very definition its proponents advance, one that seeks to radically

1361
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 1: change the way we understand biology and psychology. It's crucial

1362
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 1: to protect children dealing with gender dysphoria and the enormous

1363
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: pains that it can bring with it. Legislating with letters

1364
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 1: and administrators rules thrusts kids into awful political debates where

1365
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 1: they become pawns in national partisan games. This will make

1366
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 1: that problem worse as schools around the country are expected

1367
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: by stakeholders on both sides to push schools into going

1368
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: one way or the other, forcing the Education Department to

1369
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: settle the fights, and putting kids in the middle of

1370
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: all of it. All. Right, Ryan, I think you have

1371
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 1: some assange reflections to share with us this morning. What

1372
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 1: are you at? So we have a new letter from

1373
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 1: Democrats in Congress, actually seven Democrats in Congress, and we

1374
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 1: can put up this tweet from Congressman Rashida Talib who

1375
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: led a letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland demanding that

1376
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:47,840
Speaker 1: he end the prosecution of Julian Assan for publishing classified

1377
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:52,759
Speaker 1: documents and and the extradition attempt. It was signed by

1378
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: the kind of six members of the squad. That's talib Omar,

1379
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 1: Jamal Bowman, Corey bush Aana Presley, who did I leave

1380
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 1: out I'll see you a Bowman, Yeah, and Greg Kassar,

1381
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: who is a freshman who represents Austin, Texas. So the

1382
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:17,759
Speaker 1: only one outside of the squad to jump on was Gazar.

1383
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: You might have expected maybe Summer Lee, who is kind

1384
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 1: of also considered to be part of this kind of

1385
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: growing squad. You might have expected maybe Adli Ramirez. You

1386
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,559
Speaker 1: may have expected Rocanna or Promeila Jayapaul, both of whom

1387
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: have spoken in favor of this position that charges should

1388
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:40,240
Speaker 1: be dropped. But it appears like the Congressional Progressive Caucus

1389
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 1: probably wanted this to be more of a squad letter

1390
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: than to be a Progressive Caucus letter. Now, according to

1391
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,720
Speaker 1: Gabriel Shipton, who is Juliana Sanchez brother, he tells me

1392
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 1: that there are there are other letters coming as well,

1393
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: one one from Australia, which has forty eight members of

1394
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 1: what do they have a parliament there? Whatever they have

1395
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,639
Speaker 1: down under forty eight forty eight of those many times

1396
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: more than the United States. In the UK thirty five

1397
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 1: members of parliament. Letters also coming from Mexico and Brazil,

1398
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 1: with combined more than one hundred legislators, all calling for

1399
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: the end of the end of this prosecution, the protection

1400
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 1: of a free press, and the dropping of the extradition

1401
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 1: attempt against Julian Assange. Now my understanding is that this

1402
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: letter was circulated among Democrats because there is a a

1403
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 1: because we're in a hyper polarized environment, and b because

1404
01:18:30,479 --> 01:18:33,880
Speaker 1: the administration that is prosecuting him is democratic, And so

1405
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: the thinking is that there are more. You know, it's

1406
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:41,160
Speaker 1: more useful to have Democrats pressuring a democratic administration and republicans.

1407
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 1: So I think that's why there are zero Republicans on

1408
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 1: this letter, even though some have publicly called for these

1409
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 1: charges to be dropped. What did you make of you know,

1410
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: as as shipped and put it to me, he's there

1411
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 1: excited that it is a start from the outset tie.

1412
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 1: People must say it's frustrating that there are only seven

1413
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 1: Democrats who are willing to stand up for this issue.

1414
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 1: But your interpretation is more that they kind of wanted

1415
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 1: to keep it to the squad. I don't think the

1416
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 1: squad did. I think the rest of the the rest

1417
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 1: of them. I think the rest of Caucus doesn't just

1418
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: simply Democratic Caucus doesn't want to be associated with Julian Assange.

1419
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: So this is interesting because it reminds me of what

1420
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier in the show, in the

1421
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: context of you know, the National Security State being team

1422
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 1: Red or Team Blue, or actually just being team Nats,

1423
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:32,680
Speaker 1: being team Blob. And I think this is a good

1424
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: example of how their team blob, where you have the

1425
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 1: Obama administration resist going after Assange in the same way

1426
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:43,800
Speaker 1: that Trump administration did. The Trump administration figures out, you

1427
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 1: know that they don't really care about the so called

1428
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: New York Times problem that the Obama administration identified, and

1429
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:52,879
Speaker 1: the Biden administration now is overseeing the case against Assange.

1430
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:56,280
Speaker 1: And it shows you, I think, even when you know,

1431
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: in this evolution post Obama, when Assange kind of fell

1432
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:01,960
Speaker 1: out of the news in the same way, he's definitely

1433
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: out of the news in not in the same way

1434
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 1: that he was in the news in the Obama administration,

1435
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,559
Speaker 1: the early Trump administration twenty sixteen Russia collusion wiki leagues

1436
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 1: type time. Now that he's fallen out of the news,

1437
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:16,120
Speaker 1: Democrats are like, we can be team Blob, we can

1438
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of in the same It's a

1439
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: reverse of how Donald Trump had this weird patchwork of

1440
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 1: people that were team Blob but also like team populist

1441
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 1: isolationist almost you have like John Bolton working alongside random

1442
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,799
Speaker 1: other Trump people who seem decide more with Donald Trump,

1443
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 1: and you know, Rand Paul on foreign policy. It's like

1444
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: the reverse of that, where you have this strange, like

1445
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:44,759
Speaker 1: leftist some people in the Biden administration being kind of leftist,

1446
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 1: but the security establishment being security establishment, and they're in

1447
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:52,640
Speaker 1: control now, They're firmly in control, and that's who I

1448
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,160
Speaker 1: think democrats ultimately listen to. They don't want to go

1449
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 1: against them on those big questions because then you get

1450
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 1: you face the media pressure that Obama based during the Assinge,

1451
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: the initial Assinge era, right, and the charge the specific

1452
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 1: charges relate to the leaks by Chelsea Manning, including the

1453
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:14,280
Speaker 1: kind of collateral murder video if people remember that, which

1454
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 1: which showed evidence of video evidence of US troops massacring

1455
01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: civilians and a Reuter's photographer. The only people charged in

1456
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 1: connection with that mass murder have been Julian Assange and

1457
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning. Also the State Department cables and some other

1458
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: things that that Manning leaked. So those are the charges

1459
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:41,040
Speaker 1: from that period of time, But it is really his

1460
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen reporting and publishing John Podesta emails, you know,

1461
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:49,680
Speaker 1: and the Hillary Clinton speeches that were embedded in the

1462
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,880
Speaker 1: John Podesta emails. That really is the thing I think

1463
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 1: that has Democrats in the anti Assange camp, like they

1464
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:04,600
Speaker 1: still blame him for acting Trump and Assange was privately

1465
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 1: supportive of of Trump, he thought, and he thought that

1466
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,439
Speaker 1: it would be better for the rest of the world

1467
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 1: if Trump were president, and they thought that Democrat his

1468
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:18,799
Speaker 1: his reasoning was that Democrats would be so reflexively anti

1469
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: Trump that they would constrain his imperialistic tendencies, and so

1470
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 1: US Empire would be constrained by that kind of push

1471
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 1: and pull between the two parties. That kind of frankly

1472
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,960
Speaker 1: reasonable ish take like that, and he's entitled to his

1473
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 1: take like that. It's not it's not a crime for

1474
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:38,880
Speaker 1: a journalist to have a position in an election one

1475
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: way or the other. And he was asked, why didn't

1476
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:43,280
Speaker 1: you kind of leaked Trump's emails, He's like, nobody gave

1477
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 1: me Trump's emails. Well, that's the thing. If he got

1478
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 1: if somebody leaked him Trump's emails. Trump doesn't use email,

1479
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,240
Speaker 1: but let's say Donald Trump Junior's emails, he'd have dumped them,

1480
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 1: like we we can be we can be very confident

1481
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:57,680
Speaker 1: of that, Like that's that's what he does. And but

1482
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: I think it's that stigma associated with Trump that has

1483
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 1: Democrats unwilling to go anywhere near him because then they're

1484
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: going to face all kinds of blowback from their kind

1485
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:12,799
Speaker 1: of their democratic voter base, who is also very hostile

1486
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 1: to assange. So I wonder how it would shape out

1487
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: if it was just the blob, just the CIA. Yeah, yeah,

1488
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,000
Speaker 1: And I don't totally know. Well, and maybe like that's

1489
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:26,599
Speaker 1: that's the thing, Like, is it potentially true that some

1490
01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 1: agents of Russia leaked this information to Wiki League? Sure

1491
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:33,759
Speaker 1: could be. That's not the point. And that published information

1492
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,280
Speaker 1: that was allegedly uh you know, leaked or hacked by

1493
01:23:37,320 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 1: other foreign governments, not Russia, but uh, other other governments.

1494
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: If it's true and we can authenticate it, yeah, still journalism,

1495
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:49,280
Speaker 1: it's newsworthy. And that's a complete distinction that gets glossed over.

1496
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: And that's where this case is so frustrating. Before I

1497
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 1: also published plenty of stuff off the wiki League's cables,

1498
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: which according to them, came from Russia. So I have

1499
01:23:56,080 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: done that. So yeah, you also count accused of working

1500
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 1: for the CIA. So I think someone just needs to

1501
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: get their story straight about who you work for, whether

1502
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:10,679
Speaker 1: you work for Russia, Yeah, the same thing is there's

1503
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 1: something much bigger going on. Yeah you work for cloudshoss No.

1504
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 1: I think that's what's so frustrating about this is that

1505
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: if you have evidence that Julian Nossange stole state secrets

1506
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 1: by all means, but their evidence for that is such

1507
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:33,599
Speaker 1: bullshit that it actually does endanger other journalists. It's a

1508
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:37,639
Speaker 1: ridiculous case. And again, if you have that case, make it.

1509
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 1: But they don't. This is their like they've they've already

1510
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 1: devised their genius way of getting Julian massage. And it's

1511
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:46,679
Speaker 1: not like a slam dunk case. It's a ridiculous case

1512
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: that implicates other journalists. And that's the problem. Like you

1513
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:51,680
Speaker 1: can think what Julian Nossange did was wrong, you can

1514
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 1: think that he shouldn't have published what looks like it's

1515
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 1: possibly propaganda to destabilize the United States. That's not a

1516
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:01,800
Speaker 1: question of journal in news. That's a question that's a

1517
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 1: separate question. But what he published was obviously newsworthy. Yeah,

1518
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:07,719
Speaker 1: no question about it, no question about it whatsoever. Wouldn't

1519
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,799
Speaker 1: have been news all over the world if it wasn't, ye, nope, nope.

1520
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:14,799
Speaker 1: So next up, we're going to be joined by Maryann

1521
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:20,800
Speaker 1: Williamson to talk about her the TikTok Marion mania that

1522
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 1: has gripped the nation. Yes, looking forward to that coming

1523
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 1: up right next, Well, if the presidential election were held

1524
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 1: today on what is one of the biggest social media

1525
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:35,519
Speaker 1: company platforms in the country, in fact, the biggest certainly

1526
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 1: under people among fifty years old, the winner of that

1527
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 1: prize would be none other than Mary Anne Williamson. That's right,

1528
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:47,000
Speaker 1: what do you mean close? Absolute landslide blowout. So we're

1529
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:50,920
Speaker 1: joined by the president elect of TikTok now herself, Maryann

1530
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 1: Williamson joins us. Now, Marianne, thank you so much for

1531
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:56,680
Speaker 1: joining us. Oh, thank you so much for having me.

1532
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: And so what do you make of this Marianne mania

1533
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:02,800
Speaker 1: that has been gripping TikTok And how did you learn

1534
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:07,400
Speaker 1: actually that you've become such a kind of cultural phenomenon

1535
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:12,559
Speaker 1: on this app Well, you know, part of my decision

1536
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 1: making about whether or not to run. Had to do it.

1537
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,600
Speaker 1: Taking a college tour. I spoke at eight colleges and

1538
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:21,720
Speaker 1: universities because I wanted to get a sense of where

1539
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 1: younger people were and whether they would see me and

1540
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:26,840
Speaker 1: whether I would see them, and whether there would be

1541
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 1: any connection in terms of what I wanted to do

1542
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 1: as a candidate and hopefully one day as a president.

1543
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 1: And so i'm I feel I understand the alignment between

1544
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 1: what I have to say and younger people. You know,

1545
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:42,800
Speaker 1: gen Z, they're not even twentieth century people. Most of

1546
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 1: these kids in college today weren't even born in the

1547
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: twentieth century, or if they were, they just hung out

1548
01:26:47,600 --> 01:26:50,240
Speaker 1: there for a few years as babies. And so they

1549
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 1: have a visceral sense that they are living their lives,

1550
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:55,080
Speaker 1: that the effect of bad ideas left over from the

1551
01:26:55,080 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 1: twentieth century. Every generation wants to individuate. Every person does

1552
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 1: this generation. It's individuating from a century and from a millennium.

1553
01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,080
Speaker 1: They want to build on what worked, and they want

1554
01:27:06,080 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: to cut the cord and start over again with a

1555
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: lot of things. And that's my that's my agenda. And

1556
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 1: they hear me, and the fact that their pain is

1557
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 1: recognized by my campaign. They don't want to hear this

1558
01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 1: bs about how the economy is doing well. You know,

1559
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 1: last night I spoke to Yale at Yale University. I

1560
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:24,679
Speaker 1: said something at Yale, and I also said at Stanford,

1561
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 1: and I saw all these kids on their head. I said,

1562
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 1: even with a degree from one of these schools, you know,

1563
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:31,280
Speaker 1: you're not going to be able to afford the house

1564
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:34,600
Speaker 1: that your parents had. You know that it's going to

1565
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:38,400
Speaker 1: all of this neoliberal trickle down economic theory that so

1566
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 1: holds down the majority of people on some level, it

1567
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 1: will hold you down to and even if the system

1568
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 1: says to you, oh, we'll let you in because it

1569
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:50,000
Speaker 1: needs the best and the brightest to perpetuate itself. Don't

1570
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 1: allow yourself to be seduced, because it's not okay for

1571
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,720
Speaker 1: you to live your life where everything's okay at the

1572
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 1: expense of pain and suffering for the majority of people.

1573
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:00,679
Speaker 1: Young people hear that, and I'm glad that they do.

1574
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:03,040
Speaker 1: And there are a bunch of different types of clips

1575
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 1: of yours that have gone viral. Some are kind of

1576
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 1: speeches of yours from the nineteen eighties and nineties. Some

1577
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 1: of the clips from the twenty twenty your twenty twenty

1578
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,439
Speaker 1: presidential campaign. I want to play one here though that

1579
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:17,600
Speaker 1: this is from the current presidential campaign been viewed, you

1580
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 1: know millions, many millions of times's let's play that one here.

1581
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 1: What are you going to do when you first get there?

1582
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 1: First thing I'm going to do is cancel the Willow Project.

1583
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: I'm also going to cancel all student debt. I'm going

1584
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 1: to declassify marijuana from a Schedule one drug. In addition

1585
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:38,160
Speaker 1: to auditing the Pentagon. Oh, also I want to cancel

1586
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 1: We're going to immediately cancel all government contracts with union

1587
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: busting companies. And we're going to really bolster the NLRB,

1588
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 1: and we're going to really bolster everything involved with supporting unions.

1589
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 1: One of the first things I'll do is put together

1590
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 1: a conference where I hear from the best experts in

1591
01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:00,679
Speaker 1: this country on everything related to childhood. You know, John

1592
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 1: Kennedy said in ten years will land a man on

1593
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:04,280
Speaker 1: the moon. You know what I'm going to say to you.

1594
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 1: Within ten years, every public school, this is my vision

1595
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:09,439
Speaker 1: that every public school in the United States would be

1596
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 1: a palace of learning and culture in the arts. Well,

1597
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 1: what struck me about that clip? Is it? It kind

1598
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: of combines cultural critique and cultural issues with kind of

1599
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:25,519
Speaker 1: with class war, with corruption, and with a pro worker agenda.

1600
01:29:25,760 --> 01:29:28,160
Speaker 1: You don't see, you know a lot of candidates talking

1601
01:29:28,160 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 1: about an LRB or getting into the weeds on the

1602
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 1: way that the federal government could cancel contracts with union

1603
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:36,920
Speaker 1: busting or non union non union firms. So is that

1604
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:41,640
Speaker 1: Are you finding that the combination of those is resonating

1605
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 1: or is one of them kind of hotter than another

1606
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 1: to your audience. Now, my political campaigning is no different

1607
01:29:51,160 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 1: than my writing. I say what I believe needs to

1608
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:56,400
Speaker 1: be said. You know, many years ago I read a

1609
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 1: quote by a man named Arnold Patton. He said, if

1610
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:02,719
Speaker 1: you genuine have something you need to say, there's someone

1611
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:05,840
Speaker 1: out there who genuinely needs to hear it. I'm not

1612
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,559
Speaker 1: filtering myself. Well do they want to hear that? Will

1613
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:10,600
Speaker 1: they like it? If I say that? Will there be

1614
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,120
Speaker 1: a demographic who hears that? I'm saying what I believe

1615
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 1: needs to be said in order to repair the country,

1616
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 1: which I also believe is what needs to be said

1617
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 1: in order to win the presidency in twenty twenty four. Yes,

1618
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:25,559
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people on the left,

1619
01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 1: on the right everybody's in these silos. And I think

1620
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:30,760
Speaker 1: this goes back to gen Z. I think gen Z

1621
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:33,800
Speaker 1: are among millions of Americans who can we break out

1622
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:36,679
Speaker 1: of the silos? Please? Can we realize that in many

1623
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 1: issues it's both and it's political and it's cultural, it's

1624
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,160
Speaker 1: policy change, and it's personal change. I think that's what

1625
01:30:44,200 --> 01:30:48,000
Speaker 1: the twenty first century demands. This thinking that's sort of

1626
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 1: the stale thinking, Well, if you talk about if you

1627
01:30:51,920 --> 01:30:54,519
Speaker 1: talk about the NLRB, you're not also going to be

1628
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: talking about cultural issues with children. Well, actually maybe you will.

1629
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 1: And I think that that's where people are ready to be.

1630
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 1: And I was gonna say, totally unshackled by that binary

1631
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:09,600
Speaker 1: that it's either politics as personal. It's either left or

1632
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: it's right. And on that note, what I like about

1633
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 1: that clip is, you know, it's one of the same

1634
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:17,759
Speaker 1: things I like about looking back at Ronald Reagan's rhetoric

1635
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 1: is that it's kind of soaring and optimistic. When you

1636
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:23,760
Speaker 1: look back at how Americans talked about the future in

1637
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, or successful American politicians talked about the

1638
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties they were seeing something on the horizon, or

1639
01:31:30,320 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties, Kennedy, like you said, and I

1640
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 1: want to ask you know, in some sense, it seems

1641
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:40,040
Speaker 1: to me, really that this stuff resonates because gen Z

1642
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 1: is in a lot of pain because they want they're

1643
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:46,920
Speaker 1: desperate for something to be optimistic about, because they're just

1644
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:50,080
Speaker 1: sort of drowning and pessimism because they are in a

1645
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:53,200
Speaker 1: lot of personal pain for both political and cultural reasons.

1646
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:56,360
Speaker 1: But I wonder if if that's your take on this too,

1647
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 1: that they really aren't in pain, and so part of

1648
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: why your message resonates with them is is sadly because

1649
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:07,880
Speaker 1: of that. Absolutely they've been sold a bill of goods

1650
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 1: that success means making it within what is ultimately a

1651
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 1: meaningless universe. I mean, if all the system can offer

1652
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:19,759
Speaker 1: is a way to have success within a hyper capitalist system,

1653
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 1: that will have you, you you know, like just every single

1654
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: day trying to struggle to make it more and at

1655
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 1: the expense sometimes of the things that matter most in life.

1656
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:33,400
Speaker 1: They understand that something's wrong with that. I think millions

1657
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:36,760
Speaker 1: of Americans understand that something's wrong with that. People understand

1658
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:40,679
Speaker 1: that this country has swerved away from very essential things

1659
01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 1: and even people. You know, one of the things we

1660
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 1: were talking about last night, because a lot of these

1661
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:47,680
Speaker 1: kids are into economics, you know, in political theory, and

1662
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 1: I pointed out that Adam Smith, himself, the primary architect

1663
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:55,240
Speaker 1: of free market capitalism, said it cannot exist outside an

1664
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 1: ethical universe. So the country, whether you're on the left

1665
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 1: or the right, knows that there's a soullessness at the

1666
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:04,679
Speaker 1: center of how we're operating. There's a lack of ethics.

1667
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean, look at what's happening in this country. I

1668
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:09,840
Speaker 1: don't care what your politics are. Something's wrong at the

1669
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 1: heart of things. And I believe that it is time

1670
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:14,800
Speaker 1: for a president who is willing to name that and

1671
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 1: speak to it in a meaningful way, not just as

1672
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:21,519
Speaker 1: a slogan, but actually connecting the dots between the way

1673
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:25,160
Speaker 1: we operate politically and economically with the suffering of so

1674
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 1: many human beings, both those who are making it and

1675
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:30,639
Speaker 1: those who are not. And pekingbacking on what Emily said,

1676
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:33,480
Speaker 1: I want to play one other clif that's been circulating

1677
01:33:33,479 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 1: on TikTok, let's roll that one. People these days talk

1678
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:40,640
Speaker 1: about how traumatized they are by the Trump phenomena. I'm

1679
01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:43,719
Speaker 1: just so traumatized by it. Do you think that people

1680
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:47,240
Speaker 1: who walked across the bridge at Soma were not traumatized.

1681
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 1: Everybody said, I'm so anxious. It's just this whole thing

1682
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:53,519
Speaker 1: has been so anxious. Really, what about those women standing

1683
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: up at a wrong right now? We need to toughen up.

1684
01:33:56,360 --> 01:34:00,160
Speaker 1: Butter cups everybody in this room. However pushed down we are,

1685
01:33:59,880 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 1: is nothing compared to how push down the air ononians

1686
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:05,280
Speaker 1: are right now, and they are showing up. So I

1687
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,240
Speaker 1: think we have gotten to a point where we're toddling

1688
01:34:08,240 --> 01:34:10,960
Speaker 1: our neuroses a little too much. Right now we need

1689
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:13,880
Speaker 1: to say, meditate, take a shower tray in the morning,

1690
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,679
Speaker 1: and kick ass in the afternoon. Paste not to minimize

1691
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 1: the pain. Sometimes you call your girlfriends, you call the

1692
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:21,720
Speaker 1: people in your life, can I share my pain? And

1693
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 1: then that call is over and the person who loves

1694
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:26,400
Speaker 1: you on that call says, promise me, you're going to

1695
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:28,400
Speaker 1: get out there this afternoon and show them what you've got.

1696
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 1: You and I were talking the other day for an

1697
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:33,480
Speaker 1: article I'm working on for the Intercept on this same phenomenon,

1698
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:36,640
Speaker 1: and I put to you kind of controversial idea and

1699
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:38,360
Speaker 1: I want to get your take on it here too,

1700
01:34:38,360 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 1: which is that I see some parallels with early Jordan Peterson.

1701
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 1: I like that that you couldn't You could end up

1702
01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:52,240
Speaker 1: filling the same void that Jordan Peterson before he before

1703
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 1: he drifted off into what he's doing now filled for

1704
01:34:56,240 --> 01:34:59,200
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of young people in this country.

1705
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 1: And I thought in that clip, you saw some of

1706
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:06,439
Speaker 1: the closest parallels, uh, both both inspirational but also not

1707
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 1: pandering and not taking responsibility away from people, you know,

1708
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:12,760
Speaker 1: to you know, go out there and kick ass in

1709
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:15,800
Speaker 1: the afternoon. So what what's your take on that kind

1710
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 1: of out out there comparison that there could be some

1711
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:22,160
Speaker 1: overlap there. Well, I think the significant word is early,

1712
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 1: you know early Jordan Peterson. I thought, oh, this is good.

1713
01:35:25,439 --> 01:35:28,799
Speaker 1: He's really telling people to stop being such precious, entitled,

1714
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, spoiled brats. He's really telling people to toughen

1715
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,639
Speaker 1: up and be mature. And then he took this this

1716
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:39,519
Speaker 1: just this dive, this turn into a direction that I

1717
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:45,639
Speaker 1: find kind of frightening. Actually, So yes, as long as

1718
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,519
Speaker 1: you make it very early Jordan Peterson, but where he

1719
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:51,759
Speaker 1: has gone with it is very very very different, complete

1720
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:55,720
Speaker 1: opposite from where I would go. You must, as you

1721
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:59,519
Speaker 1: become more mature, become more compassionate, more humble, and you

1722
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 1: must see your politics that way as well. And I

1723
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 1: he's become very, very different than anything on whatever any

1724
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 1: direction I would ever take at who he is now.

1725
01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:14,920
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting question because, yeah, early Jordan Pearson

1726
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:17,559
Speaker 1: was telling people basically make your bed, take control of

1727
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:21,320
Speaker 1: your life. And what I like about what what you

1728
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:23,200
Speaker 1: were saying in that clip, Marian is it's it's not

1729
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:26,880
Speaker 1: denying that people are in pain. It's not denying that

1730
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 1: there's some suffering, but it's putting it in perspective and

1731
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:33,760
Speaker 1: empowering people to deal with it differently. And and on

1732
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:35,920
Speaker 1: that note, I would be vermisfitted and asked, I mean,

1733
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:38,479
Speaker 1: I think TikTok is part of some of the mental

1734
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 1: health crises that people are having. They did they just

1735
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:44,080
Speaker 1: spend too much time on TikTok uh. So on that note,

1736
01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: what would what would you say to some of the

1737
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:51,560
Speaker 1: zoomers who this is really resonating with on on TikTok?

1738
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:54,599
Speaker 1: What would you say to them about, you know, their

1739
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 1: their strategy for balancing you know, political activism on TikTok

1740
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: and political activism in the real world support for someone

1741
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:05,559
Speaker 1: like you on TikTok versus support for someone like you also,

1742
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:10,520
Speaker 1: you know, in Iowa, in New Hampshire, in South Carolina.

1743
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:13,760
Speaker 1: What do you think the right balance should be there? Well,

1744
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:15,800
Speaker 1: I think young people as well as the rest of

1745
01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:18,559
Speaker 1: us are reading all the articles, we are understanding the

1746
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 1: very very deleterious effects mentally and emotionally psychologically on too

1747
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 1: much social media use. I mean, everybody gets that, But

1748
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,320
Speaker 1: to me, the fact that somebody is on TikTok doesn't

1749
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 1: of itself logically mean that they're on it many, many

1750
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:39,400
Speaker 1: hours a day. I think we're all recognizing now the

1751
01:37:39,439 --> 01:37:43,120
Speaker 1: addictive qualities of social media and the damage that it

1752
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 1: does to our lives if we're on those tablets too

1753
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:50,000
Speaker 1: long every single day. But the fact that younger people

1754
01:37:50,080 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 1: are looking for different ways to share information to get

1755
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,679
Speaker 1: information is a separate issue from surveillance capitalism. For whether

1756
01:37:56,720 --> 01:37:58,839
Speaker 1: it has to do with TikTok or an American company

1757
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 1: and lot of that. This is where they are, this

1758
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:04,120
Speaker 1: is what they're going to be doing, regardless of what

1759
01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:07,720
Speaker 1: we think about social media, it's here to stay. This

1760
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:14,759
Speaker 1: is an example where the answer is not only government regulations. Obviously,

1761
01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 1: there's some serious questions going on there and serious issues

1762
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 1: to balance about free speech versus all of those things.

1763
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:23,600
Speaker 1: But a lot of it does have to do with

1764
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:25,840
Speaker 1: personal change all of us, whether it has do with

1765
01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:28,400
Speaker 1: TikTok or our phone or anything. I mean, mature conscious

1766
01:38:28,439 --> 01:38:30,400
Speaker 1: people are saying, I got to put this thing, that

1767
01:38:31,040 --> 01:38:33,360
Speaker 1: thing down. I should not be spending so many hours

1768
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 1: on that. We're recognizing the addictive qualities, and I trust

1769
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:40,439
Speaker 1: America's young people to recognize it as well. And you know,

1770
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:43,640
Speaker 1: as as your campaign picks up steam, you're going to

1771
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:46,280
Speaker 1: start coming under more scrutiny. To the extent that you

1772
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:50,040
Speaker 1: have gotten any coverage from the mainstream corporate press, it

1773
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 1: has been critical of your previous treatment of staff. So

1774
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:59,240
Speaker 1: I'm curious, One, if you've heard that from people that

1775
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 1: you that have come up to you on the campaign trail,

1776
01:39:01,120 --> 01:39:04,240
Speaker 1: They've asked you about those claims from past staff, And two,

1777
01:39:04,479 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 1: you know, how do you respond to those? I get

1778
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:12,240
Speaker 1: those Politico or maybe there's another article from former staff

1779
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:15,080
Speaker 1: saying that you're a rough boss to work for. A

1780
01:39:15,120 --> 01:39:16,720
Speaker 1: lot of people have worked for me for years and

1781
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:20,200
Speaker 1: think I'm a nice person. I think that if you know,

1782
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:22,960
Speaker 1: I wish I could speak always in those deals, in

1783
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 1: those zin calm, loving tones of all the men who

1784
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:30,960
Speaker 1: run Washington. I'll try to be more like them. Look,

1785
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 1: I've raised my voice at times, and I'm sorry. And

1786
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:36,879
Speaker 1: if anybody has ever experienced me as less than respectful

1787
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:39,759
Speaker 1: to them, then I am sorry. And if ten percent

1788
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:41,879
Speaker 1: of that is true, it's something to look at within myself.

1789
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 1: And I think that's true. But those stories are so overblown,

1790
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:51,240
Speaker 1: planted smear hit. I've never thrown a phone or anything

1791
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:53,559
Speaker 1: like that. So if I lost my temper a few

1792
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 1: times in the office, absolutely, But the picture of me

1793
01:39:56,439 --> 01:40:02,720
Speaker 1: is that has been painted is beyond mischaracterization, and I

1794
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:06,080
Speaker 1: think most people know it most importantly, even people who've

1795
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:09,080
Speaker 1: read the articles. What I find out in those states

1796
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 1: you were talking about are people who want healthcare, they

1797
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: want child care, they want pay family leave, they want

1798
01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 1: a livable wage. They want to be able to send

1799
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:23,560
Speaker 1: their kids to college. You know, in the nineteen seventies

1800
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:26,639
Speaker 1: they could. In the nineteen seventies, the average worker could

1801
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:28,600
Speaker 1: afford to send their kids to college, could afford a

1802
01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 1: yearly vacation, could afford a home, could afford these things

1803
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:36,840
Speaker 1: that are now like some past middle class that used

1804
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 1: to exist almost in some fairy tale. That's what people

1805
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:42,120
Speaker 1: want to talk about, not the games of how the

1806
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:44,599
Speaker 1: DNC is going to plant stories about me because I'm

1807
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:49,960
Speaker 1: inconvenient to the system. People see beyond that. I know

1808
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:52,880
Speaker 1: that people who actually are meeting me in these in

1809
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:56,720
Speaker 1: these in these other states are beyond that. But of

1810
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:59,960
Speaker 1: course the DNC is having their you know, they're having

1811
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:02,280
Speaker 1: their desired effect. Throwing a lot of fairy does a

1812
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:06,960
Speaker 1: lot of people's eyes almost blackout in certain media outlets.

1813
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: But that's why these young people and they're and such

1814
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 1: as yourself independent media giving me a chance so that

1815
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:17,720
Speaker 1: the American people can see what does this person offer me?

1816
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 1: What would this person do as president? And for that,

1817
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:22,240
Speaker 1: I just want to add one thing I have been

1818
01:41:22,760 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 1: I have witnessed a sitting president get upset, No more

1819
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: upset than I've gotten. And you know what my thought

1820
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:31,720
Speaker 1: about it was at the time, well reason to be angry.

1821
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:36,640
Speaker 1: Sorry guys, anybody who thinks that anyway, I think I

1822
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:40,040
Speaker 1: made my point. And last last question is this is

1823
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 1: the TikTok phenomenon translating into kind of small dollar donations

1824
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 1: into the campaign. I don't see a lot of ways

1825
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:51,559
Speaker 1: on TikTok, like the way that you would see on

1826
01:41:51,560 --> 01:41:54,000
Speaker 1: say Twitter, YouTube or Facebook in the past to channel

1827
01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:58,599
Speaker 1: that into the campaign. Yeah, yeah, you know, I don't

1828
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:00,000
Speaker 1: have a way of knowing. I see a lot of

1829
01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:02,040
Speaker 1: five dollar donations come in. I see a lot of

1830
01:42:02,040 --> 01:42:04,200
Speaker 1: ten dollar donations come in. I see a lot of

1831
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:06,559
Speaker 1: three dollar donations come in, but whether they came from

1832
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:09,679
Speaker 1: TikTok or not, you know. I was watching an article

1833
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:12,680
Speaker 1: on TV last night, a segment on television last night

1834
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:17,599
Speaker 1: about the twenty twenty two elections and how the accepted

1835
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:20,200
Speaker 1: wisdom has been the young people don't vote. This generation

1836
01:42:20,280 --> 01:42:22,760
Speaker 1: of young people, sure as heck, does vote, and they

1837
01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:25,599
Speaker 1: prove that in twenty twenty two, and they prove that

1838
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:28,839
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin the other day as well as Chicago, obviously,

1839
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:30,679
Speaker 1: because they know that their lives are on the line

1840
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:33,479
Speaker 1: for this younger generation, whether or not they have healthcare,

1841
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:35,160
Speaker 1: whether or not they can get rid of these college

1842
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: loan debts, whether or not they can go to college,

1843
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:40,320
Speaker 1: whether or not they're going to have a habitable planet.

1844
01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:44,160
Speaker 1: They are recognizing the importance of politics, and they say,

1845
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:46,040
Speaker 1: why should somebody who's only going to be here for

1846
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:49,040
Speaker 1: maybe ten, fifteen, maybe twenty years longer get to have

1847
01:42:49,160 --> 01:42:54,559
Speaker 1: such an undue influence on what happens forty years from now,

1848
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:57,639
Speaker 1: and they are getting that, so we know that their

1849
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:02,160
Speaker 1: interest is translating into into voting. Whether or not it's

1850
01:43:02,200 --> 01:43:08,000
Speaker 1: translating into into financial giving, I don't know. I hope

1851
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:10,760
Speaker 1: that they will understand that they're five dollars, certainly in

1852
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 1: a campaign like mine, obviously not corporate backed, run on

1853
01:43:14,439 --> 01:43:17,600
Speaker 1: small dollar donations. I can only hope that they're recognizing.

1854
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:19,599
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't say it last night, but what

1855
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:21,800
Speaker 1: I was thinking is if each of you kids, you know,

1856
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:23,599
Speaker 1: gave me three dollars, it would be a good day

1857
01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:27,880
Speaker 1: in fundraising. So well, there you go, Marian, thanks so

1858
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:30,400
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Thank you, thank you.

1859
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:32,880
Speaker 1: It's always nice to be with you guys. Thank you.

1860
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:35,240
Speaker 1: You got it. And Emily, is there is there a

1861
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:39,840
Speaker 1: conservative parallel, any any kind of right wing politician who's

1862
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:42,880
Speaker 1: lighting up TikTok in the way that Mary and Mania

1863
01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:46,000
Speaker 1: has gripped it. I don't go on TikTok because, as

1864
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:48,320
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not in my thirties as of last month,

1865
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:51,800
Speaker 1: so I'm too old for TikTok. Yeah, No, I mean,

1866
01:43:51,880 --> 01:43:53,720
Speaker 1: I actually don't go on TikTok. But I think the

1867
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:57,880
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson comparison is a really interesting one because and

1868
01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:01,160
Speaker 1: also one thing that it makes me think of is

1869
01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:02,960
Speaker 1: I've said for a long time, it's just it honestly

1870
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:05,040
Speaker 1: puzzles me why there hasn't been kind of a Ralph

1871
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:12,680
Speaker 1: Nader running on issues with sort of like technology and alienation,

1872
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:15,679
Speaker 1: and you really like the there hasn't been a candidate

1873
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 1: like that in a really long time. And I think

1874
01:44:18,920 --> 01:44:21,800
Speaker 1: Marian sort of is someone who's prepared to talk like

1875
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:25,720
Speaker 1: that about alienation, about psychological problems that the country is

1876
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:28,759
Speaker 1: facing in mass health problems that the country is facing

1877
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:32,800
Speaker 1: in mass But on the right, I just hear way

1878
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:36,120
Speaker 1: too little of that. So no, I don't think there's

1879
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:38,720
Speaker 1: anything like that, and I do want to see that

1880
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:42,760
Speaker 1: on the debate stage really badly. I can imagine Nator

1881
01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 1: doing well on TikTok. The Native would do great on

1882
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:47,960
Speaker 1: He almost says the Bernie esque quality right, like he's

1883
01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:51,200
Speaker 1: kind of commugionally. I sold I sold Ralph Nader T

1884
01:44:51,360 --> 01:44:54,200
Speaker 1: shirts in two thousand. Of course he's Madison Square Garden rally.

1885
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:57,719
Speaker 1: Of course you did. He also was supposed to STEALT

1886
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: T shirts at Woodstock ninety nine. I'm not making this up.

1887
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 1: Weren't you You were supposed to be part of the

1888
01:45:02,439 --> 01:45:04,400
Speaker 1: volunteer staff. That's right. I was gonna sell T shirt

1889
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:06,280
Speaker 1: Kindness t shirts that would talk ninety nine, and I

1890
01:45:06,280 --> 01:45:08,360
Speaker 1: backed out at the last minute. I eagerly await the

1891
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:10,920
Speaker 1: Ryan Grim memoir. Glad I didn't what they have burned

1892
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:13,639
Speaker 1: down the Kindest T shirt stand. That's the question. Didn't they?

1893
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,800
Speaker 1: I think he didn't go because I didn't go. Oh yeah,

1894
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:19,960
Speaker 1: they probably would have. Actually later made a T shirt

1895
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:22,400
Speaker 1: where I had a friend draw Ralph Nader's face on

1896
01:45:22,439 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 1: that iconic Shade portrait. It's a great T shirt. Oh

1897
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:31,680
Speaker 1: my god, it's funny. Well, that's a great place to

1898
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:35,920
Speaker 1: leave it. There you go. Make tune in next Wednesday

1899
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:39,679
Speaker 1: for more bizarre stories from the life and times of writing.

1900
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:43,559
Speaker 1: All right, we'll talk to you later. Take it easy.

1901
01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 1: To see you next week.