Speaker 1: Our conversation is presented by Uber eats. You know I
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Speaker 1: All right. Fresh off a week vacation, which was a
Speaker 1: semi vacation, I went to Montecito, which is up north
Speaker 1: of LA by about an hour and a half and
Speaker 1: hung out with my wife for about four days. Then
Speaker 1: we went to Chicago, where we just were, you know,
Speaker 1: fixing a new house. As people know, I'm moving some
Speaker 1: of my stuff there and so most people go to
Speaker 1: Sun and Golf. I went into like twelve degrees, but
Speaker 1: I had a great time. I went to a Sun's
Speaker 1: Bulls game Saturday night. Met Justin Isa, the Mattasbia owns
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Suns. Justin Justin his brother Ishbia, met him.
Speaker 2: Really, we're trying to buy the White Sox. He's trying
Speaker 2: to buy the White Sox, right.
Speaker 1: I think he tried to make a run at the Twins.
Speaker 1: I don't you know. I know he likes baseball. He's
Speaker 1: got a minor league team in Nashville and a lot
Speaker 1: of business in Nashville. Could not be more down to earth.
Speaker 1: Justinishb Be a really nice guy, invited me to a
Speaker 1: party to get welcomed into the neighborhood and just happened
Speaker 1: to be at the Sun's Bulls game. So I had
Speaker 1: a good time. I just I didn't go to the Sun.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that in April on a vacation. But
Speaker 1: before we get started, the one thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: touch on with you and I just just it's not football,
Speaker 1: so we can ramble and talk about a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: So when I was I try to kind of stay off.
Speaker 1: I watched the Nation's for Hockey stuff. I thought that
Speaker 1: was great. I mean NHL basically said we're gonna punt
Speaker 1: on our All Star Game. Nobody likes any of these
Speaker 1: All Star games except baseball. The rest of them are tanking.
Speaker 1: We're gonna try something new Finland, Sweden, Canada, US.
Speaker 2: It was great.
Speaker 1: It was just great hockey, really intense. But it is
Speaker 1: interesting when you inject patriotism into any sport, curling, track
Speaker 1: and field, pole vaulting, it could be anything. It's jet fuel.
Speaker 1: And you know Women's World Cup basically, you know every
Speaker 1: time they've won a gold there's this sense that it's
Speaker 1: going to explode, and the women's soccer league is going
Speaker 1: to explode. It doesn't really happen. It's just patriotism. And
Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk during the break that
Speaker 1: I can't believe ESPN's letting go of baseball either can I.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting isn't that they signed the NBA. That's
Speaker 1: not interesting because the NBA has got iconic franchises Sixers, Celtics, Lakers, Warriors, Bulls, Knicks,
Speaker 1: and it's got iconic stars. It's always been a star
Speaker 1: driven league. Anybody that's a sports fan, even a casual,
Speaker 1: can name twelve fifteen guys in the NBA right now.
Speaker 1: But what's amazing is ESPN signed hockey along with TNT
Speaker 1: to a four and a half billion dollar deal seven
Speaker 1: years A few years ago. There is no iconic franchise
Speaker 1: in at least in America. Toronto Police and you know
Speaker 1: in North America are there's no recognizable hockey star in
Speaker 1: America that g walk into a mall and everybody would
Speaker 1: freak out like a Rodness Prime or O Tawny right now,
Speaker 1: or Aaron Judge or Bryce Harper, where everybody knows who
Speaker 1: they are. So when people get all worked up about
Speaker 1: ESPN signing an NBA deal and not a baseball deal,
Speaker 1: My take is, oh, I get it. I would have
Speaker 1: signed a baseball deal too. I think you have to
Speaker 1: have baseball. I think it's been on a two year heater.
Speaker 1: The pitch clock, defensive shift eliminated, and all the stars
Speaker 1: are in New York, LA. You know big markets it Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: Bryce Harper, Atlanta, Acunya. Like they got all their stars
Speaker 1: in the right markets. But what's amazing to me is
Speaker 1: ESPN and Jimmy Patar is a huge baseball fan, says
Speaker 1: buy to baseball. That's really got some two year momentum going,
Speaker 1: and said yes to hockey. And I know hockey fan
Speaker 1: thinks this nation's fourth thing means hockey is back. My
Speaker 1: take is it's patriotism. Every track and field gets hot
Speaker 1: for three weeks every four years.
Speaker 2: I'll defend hockey, I be honest. I went to my
Speaker 2: first hockey game when I moved to Arizona and the
Speaker 2: Phoenix Coyotes were playing in the college arena that had
Speaker 2: about thirty five hundred seats. Yeah, so I don't pretend
Speaker 2: to be a hockey guy. I did watch it last
Speaker 2: year in the playoffs because I gambled on it, and
Speaker 2: the playoff hockey is pretty much great. I would say
Speaker 2: this about what ten million people just watched that Four
Speaker 2: Nations thing. I think, like you said, the jet fuel
Speaker 2: with the patriotism, but that fight that happened and the
Speaker 2: booing of the national anthem, it was a perfect sce.
Speaker 2: We're always We're always an underdog, how often are we
Speaker 2: We're never underdogs in basketball? Right in the National STUF.
Speaker 2: So we're an underdog in hockey against Canada way back
Speaker 2: in the day. They intertwined to yeah, so it was
Speaker 2: it was easy watch. I'll say the thing about baseball.
Speaker 2: When I you know, I've lived in North California the
Speaker 2: majority of my life, I would just have Giants games
Speaker 2: on in the background. Yeah, and unlike other or it's
Speaker 2: like basketball, I don't watch as much anymore, but I
Speaker 2: would watch national brands play basketball, right, like I'll watch
Speaker 2: the Lakers play basketball. I live in Arizona. I will
Speaker 2: not watch the Diamondbacks play baseball. And they're good, but
Speaker 2: I'm not going to turn them on my TV. Like
Speaker 2: I would just have the Giants on a nightly bay.
Speaker 2: I don't watch any baseball anymore, and it's not because
Speaker 2: I don't like the sport. I do. I was I'm
Speaker 2: glued during the playoffs, but I think they really struggle
Speaker 2: with beside your own team. That's where football dominates, right.
Speaker 2: You could put Jags Chargers on a playoff game and
Speaker 2: thirty million people are watching. That is not the case
Speaker 2: with the brands in baseball. And I just think they're
Speaker 2: in a weird point in time because they are popular
Speaker 2: in these march If the Giants are good, they dominate
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area, the Dodgers huge in La New York.
Speaker 2: I mean, how big is baseball going to be in
Speaker 2: New York City this year with the Mets and the
Speaker 2: Yankees now? Yeah, So I just think it doesn't really
Speaker 2: work nationally, Like Sunday Night Baseball hasn't worked in a
Speaker 2: long time. It doesn't mean the sport is not popular.
Speaker 2: And then you know, you talk. I don't talk basketball
Speaker 2: really anymore. Yeah, and I I don't watch it as
Speaker 2: much as I used to, and part of it is
Speaker 2: because I just don't talk it. So I don't really care. Beside,
Speaker 2: I follow the Warriors pretty closely and the Luca thing.
Speaker 2: I would say it was a little jet few on
Speaker 2: falling the Lakers and what's going on there, But they
Speaker 2: are discussed nationally on sports shows and baseball is just not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And here's the thing that for all the NBA critics,
Speaker 1: I say this, it's in bread. I mean basketball. We
Speaker 1: all shot a basketball. It could have been in a
Speaker 1: farm on the back of a barn in Iowa. It
Speaker 1: could be in a city in Los Angeles, Rutgers Park
Speaker 1: in New York. We all played basketball. If we don't
Speaker 1: love pro basketball, we watched March Madness. We've had we
Speaker 1: were on a high school basketball team, or we went
Speaker 1: to the high school basketball team. Like basketball is inexpensive,
Speaker 1: unlike a golf or hockey with the equipment, or football because.
Speaker 2: Baseball is expensive. I mean yes, you talk to a
Speaker 2: parent that has to buy a bat.
Speaker 1: Or football where it kind of cancels out smaller kids, right,
Speaker 1: Like like basketball when you're in high school, at most
Speaker 1: high schools, if you're six two, you're you're a big kid.
Speaker 1: So basketball is part of us, and you know, I
Speaker 1: mean it's it's the biggest superstar in the history of
Speaker 1: American sports is a basketball player in Michael Jordan, Magic
Speaker 1: Johnson's Top five. So basketball's who we are, Hockey is
Speaker 1: who Canada is. And that's fine.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't have kids yet, so I
Speaker 2: can't speak for the youth, but everyone my age group
Speaker 2: and older played baseball at one point in time. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: little league, you know, through many through high school. I
Speaker 2: do think it's just lost its cultural relevancy, you know,
Speaker 2: separate from the playoffs. You know you always talk about
Speaker 2: college basketball is now just March madness. I think baseball
Speaker 2: from a national perspective is basically just the playoffs now.
Speaker 1: But think about this, Baseball runs unopposed. And if you're
Speaker 1: a sports network like ESPN, you're dying for filler in May, June, July,
Speaker 1: and August, you're dying for it. That's baseball. It's tonnage hockey.
Speaker 1: A big chunk of its season is October, November, December, January.
Speaker 1: It's like guys, and now, with a college football playoff,
Speaker 1: December's off the board for hockey.
Speaker 2: So what's your take. Did you see Manfred's statement? I mean,
Speaker 2: clearly they're angry because they turn on. No one's ever
Speaker 2: talking about them ever, So maybe from their perspective, right
Speaker 2: or wrong, And you could argue it's wrong because their
Speaker 2: right form is still relatively big. They were never going
Speaker 2: to discuss baseball beside putting on the game.
Speaker 1: So my take is right now because Otani's a Dodger,
Speaker 1: Bryce Harper of Philly, Aaron Judge, Yankee, Mooky Bets, Freddie Freeman,
Speaker 1: Acuny in Atlanta.
Speaker 2: Toto hit a home run and it's first at bat
Speaker 2: in spring training.
Speaker 1: And the Mets and the Padres. You have a lot
Speaker 1: of big market or coastal markets. In baseball, the stars
Speaker 1: are in the right places, whereas in the NBA, the
Speaker 1: stars are in the wrong places. Giannis is in Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: SGA's in Oklahoma City, Luca now is in the right spot,
Speaker 1: but Jokich is in Denver. So you have a lot
Speaker 1: of players in the NBA. Thank God for Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot of guys in the NBA
Speaker 1: are in the wrong markets. In baseball, they're all in
Speaker 1: the perfect markets. You don't have all your stars in
Speaker 1: Cincinnati or Cleveland. And that's nothing against those cities, but
Speaker 1: I just thought for ESPN, I'm like, guys, two years ago,
Speaker 1: you signed a seven year billion dollar deal on a
Speaker 1: hockey and I'm a sportscaster. I can't name six NHL
Speaker 1: guys and I respect the hell out of the sport.
Speaker 1: But it's not a talking point in my industry.
Speaker 2: I'll say this too, that you know in this you
Speaker 2: gotta be careful with small sample sizes. But if you
Speaker 2: come to the Scottsdale area in the month of March
Speaker 2: when spring training, I mean you talk the Dodgers play
Speaker 2: out where the Cardinals play in Glendale, that place you
Speaker 2: can't your shoulder to shoulder. I mean, I'm talking thousands
Speaker 2: of people every single game. The Cubs, the Giants who
Speaker 2: have been bad are in the hard of Scottsdale. This
Speaker 2: thing is a cash coun for them. The amount of
Speaker 2: people that come to this area to watch spring training baseball.
Speaker 2: These are West Coast teams. I mean, this is the Padres,
Speaker 2: the Dodgers, the Giants. You feel the popularity. Again, I'm
Speaker 2: a little jaded living here right now, but baseball does
Speaker 2: feel big this time of year. With all these baseball guys.
Speaker 2: It's kind of the center of the universe. Because in
Speaker 2: Florida's a little spread out right in baseball, it's all
Speaker 2: right here at some of the big brands, I mean
Speaker 2: the Dodgers. I went to a Dodger game last year
Speaker 2: in spring training and it felt a little bit like
Speaker 2: you were watching the nineties bulls. Yeah, it was like,
Speaker 2: this is insane.
Speaker 1: And this year they went and got the twenty three
Speaker 1: year old pitching phenom from Japan. Okay, then they act
Speaker 1: added another starter, Blake Snell. Then they went and got
Speaker 1: Tanner Scott in the bullpen. You can argue the Dodgers
Speaker 1: will have, if healthy, one of the great pitching staffs
Speaker 1: of all time. You have to go back to like
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy Baltimore Orioles when it was you know,
Speaker 1: Quaar and I think Jim Palmer and maybe I've been
Speaker 1: Steve Stone. I'm dating myself, but it's just insane. It's
Speaker 1: like Ace ACE two. I mean, it's just like stars
Speaker 1: all the way through the pitching staff. So I know
Speaker 1: we're kind of rambling here, but my point was when
Speaker 1: people were getting off on this. If I ran a
Speaker 1: sports network, there's four things i'd have. NFL, I'd try
Speaker 1: to have college football at least big regular season, Big
Speaker 1: ten or SEC, hopefully the playoffs. I'd want the World
Speaker 1: Cup for global sports, and i'd want the baseball playoffs.
Speaker 1: That's what i'd want. Those are the things I would
Speaker 1: like to have.
Speaker 2: The NBA.
Speaker 1: I would like to have the Olympics. The other thing
Speaker 1: I always throw out there is the UFC. I would loved.
Speaker 1: I mean, Fox had the UFC got into a bidding
Speaker 1: war and they didn't want to spend six billion on it.
Speaker 1: They wanted to spend three billion. They just got out
Speaker 1: bid and they acknowledged. I mean, to this day, Eric
Speaker 1: Shanks and Dana White are good friends. Like they we
Speaker 1: loved the UFC. But sometimes you just get out bid
Speaker 1: for stuff. So again, I am an NBA fan, but
Speaker 1: it's hard for me right now if I ran an work.
Speaker 1: The Yankees are going nowhere. The Dodgers are stacked forever
Speaker 1: as they push those contracts down the road. The Braves
Speaker 1: are always well run. Freaking Mets have Steve Cohen. So
Speaker 1: it's like to me, it was like, wow, this.
Speaker 2: Is Phillies are huge spenders. I mean, the Red Sox
Speaker 2: are bouncing back. The Cubs won't be down for the.
Speaker 1: Cubs just went and got a kid named Tucker. They
Speaker 1: just went and got They had a very good offseason.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm on my second titos, so you know
Speaker 1: I'm just spitball in here.
Speaker 2: No I listen, I find baseball. I think both baseball
Speaker 2: and basketball struggle. There are games a regular season game
Speaker 2: just does not feel important fair I think that's all.
Speaker 2: That's a hard part for both leagues. But the difference
Speaker 2: is is the basketball talking points just drive a lot
Speaker 2: of sports talk minus foot you know, once football is
Speaker 2: either out of season or at different times of the
Speaker 2: year where baseball just does it at all beside October,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of crazy. Kyle Tucket is what it is.
Speaker 1: Kyle Tucker I apologe I moved into Chicago part time,
Speaker 1: so I said, know who Kyle Tucker is, So I
Speaker 1: want to throw this out there. So a big talking
Speaker 1: point was again I talked about this before vacation. Then
Speaker 1: it happened during vacation, and I was told by a source,
Speaker 1: I really trust that Matt Stafford's agent and the Rams
Speaker 1: are going to meet at the Combine this week and
Speaker 1: try to bang something out. The Rams like him, Matt
Speaker 1: likes him, They want to stay together. He understands the
Speaker 1: importance of McVeigh and Pukinakua and the organization, and the
Speaker 1: Rams like him. And it's a bad quarterback class and
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers is an option but not a preferred option.
Speaker 1: Stafford's better now But here's an interesting thing. A lot
Speaker 1: of Giants of pushback on this. We're not giving up
Speaker 1: the number three pick. So my take is, would you
Speaker 1: flip picks with the Rams because it's different. If this
Speaker 1: was a great quarterback draft class, I'd be very reluctant
Speaker 1: to give it the number three pick because I could
Speaker 1: trade down, right, which the Rams would do if they
Speaker 1: got the number three pick. They would trade down and
Speaker 1: get more picks. The Giants not necessary. They're not necessarily
Speaker 1: going to trade down. They're just going to draft the quarterback.
Speaker 1: Or they would get Stafford so they wouldn't have to.
Speaker 1: But when you as a GM, I would have no
Speaker 1: problem getting Matt Stafford, giving them a three year deal,
Speaker 1: maybe four. You know, I would draft a quarterback second
Speaker 1: year into it and just say, okay, I'll take the
Speaker 1: Rams pick late first you get my draft top of
Speaker 1: the first. I would have no problem doing that. Because
Speaker 1: they've been unwatchable for a decade. The coach and the
Speaker 1: GM are on the hot seat in New York between
Speaker 1: Jade and Daniels and the Eagles roster. You're non competitive.
Speaker 1: You're not a competitive team going forward. But when I
Speaker 1: say that, Giant fans are you cannot trade the number
Speaker 1: three pick. There are drafts I agree with that, This
Speaker 1: isn't You're not getting cam Ward. This is not one
Speaker 1: of those drafts.
Speaker 2: To me, if I was a GM, I couldn't trade
Speaker 2: that valuable of a pick and pay a thirty seven
Speaker 2: year old guy who does have some injury concerns at
Speaker 2: this point in time. But those guys are fighting for
Speaker 2: their jobs. So I think if you sat in Brian
Speaker 2: dabols shoes, he wouldn't hesitate to do that. I think
Speaker 2: he would just give the number three pick for Matt Stafford.
Speaker 2: Why would he not. He's going to get fired and
Speaker 2: fair not like he would not get a job immediately after.
Speaker 2: And the general manager's also just speaking realities, would never
Speaker 2: get another job, right. So to me, now if I
Speaker 2: was the owner, I could not. We would not be
Speaker 2: doing that. That's I think it's risky business. I would
Speaker 2: also not be in business. Look at the last two
Speaker 2: quarterbacks that were older. They got a lot of money
Speaker 2: that the Packers, who are one of the best drafting
Speaker 2: teams of like all time, We're like, yeah, we're done
Speaker 2: with Aaron Rodgers, and then Kevin O'Connell was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm done with Kirk Cousins, and both those teams regretted
Speaker 2: those moves immediately. I mean the Aaron Rodgers thought, well,
Speaker 2: they had to make that move. Like I don't blame
Speaker 2: them for making that trade the Jets, but that that
Speaker 2: was a disaster. The Cousins thing was even worse because
Speaker 2: at least Rogers at one point time was one of
Speaker 2: the greatest players ever. Cousins always had some limitations coming
Speaker 2: off the Achilles and let's face the colum, They're probably
Speaker 2: gonna cut him in the next seven ten days. He's
Speaker 2: going to get cut. So now Stafford at this point
Speaker 2: in time is better than that version of Rogers and
Speaker 2: definitely Cousins. But I you know where I come with Stafford.
Speaker 2: You know he is going to accumulate it. I looked
Speaker 2: he made over two hundred and twenty million dollars in Detroit.
Speaker 2: His career earnings right now are about three hundred and
Speaker 2: sixty million dollars. So when his career is over, he
Speaker 2: will be over four hundred million dollars. So even after
Speaker 2: taxes and after paying agents, he will have accumulated before
Speaker 2: he's forty years old, over two hundred million dollars in
Speaker 2: net income. I'm not even talking about what he's made
Speaker 2: off the field in la I know he's I see
Speaker 2: him on sleep number commercials. He is really really rich.
Speaker 2: Right at this point in time, when you spent a
Speaker 2: decade and a half almost in an irrelevant franchise and
Speaker 2: losing constantly in the peak of your powers, wouldn't you
Speaker 2: go like, look at what Tom did? Like, wouldn't it
Speaker 2: makes sense to Beheyshan. It doesn't get any better than
Speaker 2: the Rams. I know we're well run, I know I
Speaker 2: have an elite coach. I'm in a huge market. I
Speaker 2: have made Peyton Manning level money, and I have gotten
Speaker 2: my ass kicked and we draft in the top ten.
Speaker 2: Now I'm with a franchise who I don't even know
Speaker 2: these guys they are bringing in, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: by mid season they're ass kickers. Like, why would I
Speaker 2: want what I would come out? I would have stopped
Speaker 2: this conversation. I will do whatever it takes. I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna make five million dollars, but why wouldn't he be like,
Speaker 2: I'm making twenty seven this year. Let's do a two
Speaker 2: year deal for like forty million, guarantee every penny you
Speaker 2: go out and buy players. I want to be here.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go Brady, I've already people. I don't count
Speaker 2: other people's money. This guy has made so much money
Speaker 2: and he played in such a bad franchise, shouldn't he Like,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want any part of the Giants.
Speaker 1: If you're Matt Stafford, what are we talking about?
Speaker 2: No, but he likes his money. There's no debt like
Speaker 2: him and Jimmy Sexton. There they have been Peyton Manning
Speaker 2: like every penny, every penny, every tea. And I don't
Speaker 2: blame the Rams like no, no more every penny.
Speaker 1: I think Stafford wants to stay with the Rams, And
Speaker 1: to your point, I would want to stay with the Rams.
Speaker 1: The value of the value of Sean McVay.
Speaker 2: For a quarterback, and just the franchise and how well
Speaker 2: run they are out. Yeah, he saw the Lions for
Speaker 2: for fifteen years. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I think a lot of this. I think when
Speaker 1: things go public, and you know, like Steven A's contract
Speaker 1: went public, I always think when I see that that
Speaker 1: the person actually wants to sign with the company it
Speaker 1: goes public, you know, I mean, and I'm this is
Speaker 1: not a shot at stephen A. But I always think
Speaker 1: that whenever a person because I could make my stuff
Speaker 1: go public on my contract and I don't. I'm not
Speaker 1: comfortable with it, but a lot of people are, and
Speaker 1: I'm not begrudging them. But Stafford and these people that
Speaker 1: it gets out either through their agent or sources. Stuff
Speaker 1: gets out when people want it want it out. Right,
Speaker 1: Like in my entire life, stories get out when people
Speaker 1: want it out. That that's the reason stuff gets out.
Speaker 1: I've got secrets in my career in negotiations never gotten
Speaker 1: out because the company doesn't want him out, and I
Speaker 1: don't want him out this time. In my negotiations, nothing
Speaker 1: gets out. I don't want it out, they don't want
Speaker 1: it out. I'd always tell my bosses keep it out
Speaker 1: of the press. I don't want anything in the press.
Speaker 1: But when people do, it does get out there. It's
Speaker 1: generally because the sides want a deal, they want to remate.
Speaker 1: So when I when I see the Matt Stafford stuff,
Speaker 1: my take is Matt wants to stay in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: He's got a gorgeous place near the beach, and I
Speaker 1: think hermos are Manhattan Beach. It's great weather. He was
Speaker 1: in the Midwest for years. He's a Texas Georgia kid.
Speaker 1: He probably likes warm weather. So I and this this
Speaker 1: is not an indictment on anybody that goes public, but
Speaker 1: it discounts in politics, if you're trying to get legislation passed.
Speaker 1: It counts in contracts. It counts when I I mean
Speaker 1: stuff is out when somebody is trying to create leverage.
Speaker 1: But they truthfully they want to stay where they're at.
Speaker 1: So I think he'll be a running Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think this one's pretty clear. Because this kind of
Speaker 2: happened last year, it feels a little more out this year.
Speaker 2: Is that the Rams are tough to negotiate with. You know,
Speaker 2: early on in their tenure with Les and Shawn, they
Speaker 2: signed a deal that they clearly regretted in Todd Gurley.
Speaker 2: And ever since they've been pretty good, right, and they
Speaker 2: haven't got in these positions where, you know, the Niners
Speaker 2: have kind of found themselves the last couple of years
Speaker 2: like ah, we regret that Debo deal. Ah, we regret
Speaker 2: that Iuke deal. And now they're kind of burned and
Speaker 2: now they're pivoting like, oh, we got to be careful
Speaker 2: with doing that stuff. The Rams learned early on because
Speaker 2: Todd Gurley's knee just went right. And this Stafford thing,
Speaker 2: I think they have just been they've been tough with him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, he's been you know, with Detroit, they always
Speaker 2: bet right over and gave him and he was always
Speaker 2: the highest paid guy. You know. The last couple of years,
Speaker 2: it's been hard. He's like, I'm only making twenty seven.
Speaker 2: They're like, well, I we'll give you a couple of
Speaker 2: million dollars more, but we're not. We're not giving you
Speaker 2: two years one hundred million dollars. Mat that's just not happening, right,
Speaker 2: And we want you, you want us. We're winning, listen,
Speaker 2: and I know you only have a chance. It's like,
Speaker 2: once he leaves, he's probably not going to make when
Speaker 2: he's forty two years old, retired thirty million dollars in
Speaker 2: his first shot, whatever he does. So I understand, you
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to make a lot of it. But
Speaker 2: he's made so much in winning, like you could go
Speaker 2: down as a legendary player that I would be very
Speaker 2: careful about driving this hard in negotiation. Now. I think
Speaker 2: he also knows, like what would the Rams do, you know,
Speaker 2: Sean McVay. They're not really in the business of just like, oh,
Speaker 2: we'll figure it out on the fly, like they understand
Speaker 2: what they have. But I think they have some negotiating
Speaker 2: power because, like you said, he doesn't want to leave.
Speaker 2: Look at his options, like the Giants are the Titans
Speaker 2: are going to trade? How are we talking about? Gross?
Speaker 1: And I do think there's I think the Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: thing has some legs. And I'll say this, we know
Speaker 1: that coaching matters with quarterbacks. Last ten games last year
Speaker 1: when Solo was gone, the Jets were one of the
Speaker 1: poorest coach teams in the league. They up and down
Speaker 1: both sides of the ball, and Aaron put up good numbers.
Speaker 1: Aaron with McVeigh would put up good numbers, B plus numbers,
Speaker 1: maybe not A numbers. So I think that's something they've
Speaker 1: thought about. Aaron's got a place in Malibu, and it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: if we get trapped here, we'll bring on Aaron for
Speaker 1: a couple of year deal. Plus Aaron. From all the indications,
Speaker 1: Aaron wanted to be a Jet and was dumped for
Speaker 1: the second time, So I think Aaron does not want
Speaker 1: to end his career like that. And again, I thought
Speaker 1: in his last ten games he had like a ninety
Speaker 1: eight passer rating he was pretty good. So my take
Speaker 1: is Aaron, it's not a I mean I had somebody
Speaker 1: that I really trust tell me this that Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: is who McVeigh would go after. I mean, he went
Speaker 1: after a guy in Baker Mayfield that came with baggage.
Speaker 1: He went after him in one second.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carson wentz. They got off. You know, they've done
Speaker 2: a lot of that. He has, no he's got He's
Speaker 2: like the young version of Andy Reid. They'll take on problems.
Speaker 2: The difference, though, is to me, there's a big difference
Speaker 2: is the player Aaron Rodgers wants no part of getting hit.
Speaker 2: He just will not. And that's still a quality that
Speaker 2: Stafford will sit in there. He will get peppered as
Speaker 2: he delivers a strike, and that you know, at the
Speaker 2: level in which the Rams, I mean they're the only
Speaker 2: team that went toe to toe with the Eagles, you know,
Speaker 2: so it's like they're trying to compete for the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: That difference in standing in there throughout the course of
Speaker 2: a season in the big games, I think there would
Speaker 2: be a drop off unless Aaron was just willing again
Speaker 2: to play like he did. And I don't think at
Speaker 2: forty one years old, he would be. I mean that
Speaker 2: is one thing. Stafford will sit in there kind of
Speaker 2: like the old school quarterbacks and still get hit. So
Speaker 2: I understand maybe his negotiating, like, hey guys, I'm taking
Speaker 2: a lot of hits here too, Like I need some
Speaker 2: money for this, for these bruises that I wake up
Speaker 2: with every Monday morning.
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Speaker 1: Let's just throw this name out there because the combine
Speaker 1: starts this week and before we get into that free
Speaker 1: agencies after that, Sam Donald had a couple of disappointing games.
Speaker 1: End of the season. Yeah, Sam Donald a really good season.
Speaker 1: Sam's got a market. Sam is still in the middle
Speaker 1: of his prime. What is your I contend that Las
Speaker 1: Vegas and with Chip Kelly and the Colts with Shane
Speaker 1: Steiken are really good fits. Indie feels like Sam in
Speaker 1: that division can go toe to toe with those quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: You're not going toe to toe with a Herbert, I
Speaker 1: don't think, or a Mahomes, But I think you put
Speaker 1: him in the AFC South with Shane Steikin, I think
Speaker 1: he can go toe to toe with a CJ. Stroud
Speaker 1: on most Sundays. What do you think happens with Sam?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot change. I remember going live
Speaker 2: with you right after he made that throw against Seattle
Speaker 2: and I was like, this guy, how are they gonna
Speaker 2: not give him a huge contract? And it shows you
Speaker 2: the power of these prime time games. Let's face there
Speaker 2: was a lot you know, obviously the division was on
Speaker 2: the line that Sunday night, and then the playoff game
Speaker 2: was really, really bad. I still think at minimum he's
Speaker 2: going to get a Baker Mayfield three or one hundred
Speaker 2: million dollars type contract with me, and clearly with good
Speaker 2: coaching you can. I mean, his team was sixty minutes
Speaker 2: away from the number one overall seed. He played a
Speaker 2: massive role in that, so I think you got to
Speaker 2: be careful. Yeah, I think that game exposed a little
Speaker 2: bit when he starts getting blitzed, he starts you know,
Speaker 2: I don't want to say seeing ghosts. He's come a
Speaker 2: long way since then, but he looked dramatically different in
Speaker 2: those two games than he did. But you'd also say
Speaker 2: he's you know, Aaron Glenn became a head coach, one
Speaker 2: of the best defensive coordinators in the league and just
Speaker 2: was blitzing them every single play. And Sean McVay and
Speaker 2: Shula are just they had that defense rolling. I mean,
Speaker 2: they went, they were hitting Hurts, they made him look
Speaker 2: bad in that game. They were playing good defense. So
Speaker 2: I still would have no problem given now that here's
Speaker 2: the thing, like, you know, these quarterbacks, the dominoes, all
Speaker 2: these teams looking are gonna have some ranking going into
Speaker 2: the combine. When they talked to the Age and so
Speaker 2: it's are you all in on Sam Donald? Because if
Speaker 2: you draft or if you sign Sam Donald to a
Speaker 2: multi year deal, you're probably not drafting a quarterback if
Speaker 2: you're the Giants, if you're the Titans, if you're the Raiders.
Speaker 2: But if you take Cousins or Rogers, you know, you're
Speaker 2: probably still have no problem drafting a quarterback really high.
Speaker 2: So I think Donald would be the one guy that
Speaker 2: would just get signed and immediately become, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of not your long term starter, but at least in
Speaker 2: the immediate next couple of year starter.
Speaker 1: What do you expect? Combine starts on Thursday? Shador Sanders
Speaker 1: won't work out at the combine, which has become kind
Speaker 1: of a trend with quarterbacks. What are you expecting? What
Speaker 1: are you looking for?
Speaker 2: Yeah? To me, Shador is a good example of like,
Speaker 2: coming into this year, every important college director slash assistant
Speaker 2: GM saw him play life. He was such a big
Speaker 2: prospect coming into the season. There is not an NFL
Speaker 2: team worth their salt, and every team, once they realized
Speaker 2: we needed a quarterback probably saw him multiple times play game.
Speaker 2: So it's the combine for him. And I'd even say
Speaker 2: the same thing about cam Ward. Remember when he transferred
Speaker 2: to Miami he was the number one essentially free agent
Speaker 2: college football. I think it would go for him as well,
Speaker 2: which wouldn't shock me if he doesn't throw, though, Chador
Speaker 2: isn't you know, some elite prospect in terms of his qualities,
Speaker 2: Like if you're Josh Allen, you should throw at the combine.
Speaker 2: Why you're throwing one hundred miles an hour. I remember
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson when he got all the pushback about Pollan's
Speaker 2: common about the wide Receiver's like, I'm not gonna run.
Speaker 2: It's like, Lamar, You're gonna run a four to two.
Speaker 2: Everyone's head's gonna turn and you're gonna be the talk
Speaker 2: of the combine. It was a mistake not running. Now,
Speaker 2: granted it all worked out. I don't blame Chador for
Speaker 2: not throwing in this environment because it's not the best environment.
Speaker 2: If I'm cam Ward, you have a huge arm throw,
Speaker 2: I would no one cares about completions and completions you're
Speaker 2: throwing people you don't know. Let that ball rip as
Speaker 2: all the coaches and gms are sitting there in the
Speaker 2: boxes and in the seats right there in Indy. So
Speaker 2: I think those two guys in a huge part of
Speaker 2: the I'm buying is the interviews and with a quarterback,
Speaker 2: and I would throw Jackson Darton here, who I think
Speaker 2: is going to gain some momentum as a potential first
Speaker 2: round pick. Is the person like, what are you like
Speaker 2: as a guy? I mean, last year you see some
Speaker 2: of these clips, it was a pretty high level class.
Speaker 2: You know, Jade Daniel's really high level guy. Obviously Caleb,
Speaker 2: everyone had known him for years and he was a
Speaker 2: lot to go number one. But Drake May, Michael Pennix,
Speaker 2: I mean, the bo Nicks, JJ McCarthy. So it was
Speaker 2: like they're going to crush these interviews. Coaches. This is
Speaker 2: the first the gms and the scouts have been watching
Speaker 2: these guys for years. The coaches, you know, NFL coaches
Speaker 2: don't really watch as much college football as the average
Speaker 2: fan would think. The head coach might have it on,
Speaker 2: you know, Andy Reid does, but a lot of guys
Speaker 2: are just sco tunnel vision. They don't know that much
Speaker 2: about these players and definitely have never met him and
Speaker 2: a lot of times haven't really evaluated them. So this
Speaker 2: is kind of their first exposure. So meeting them as
Speaker 2: a human being and getting to know the guy and
Speaker 2: getting to know like their football smarts and their football IQ.
Speaker 2: It's a huge, huge moment for all the guys that
Speaker 2: you know are in the mix to I mean, all
Speaker 2: these guys are draft We're gonna get drafted. The majority
Speaker 2: of the guys go to Combine, but definitely the guys
Speaker 2: that have like the ability to get drafted in the
Speaker 2: first round. I mean, there's just a lot of money
Speaker 2: on the line, you know, getting drafted high.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the combine's interesting. I think I was into it
Speaker 1: more ten years ago, and I think some coaches feel
Speaker 1: the same way. They don't necessarily some go, some don't.
Speaker 1: I have you been surprised as a former NFL scout,
Speaker 1: some of these coaching staffs just don't go anymore. They
Speaker 1: just say I'm not going. Yeah, not wasting my time.
Speaker 1: Does that surprise you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Honestly has bothered me in the past because I go, Well,
Speaker 2: Belichick always went, and now I'll promise you this, Andy
Speaker 2: Reid's going to be there. It's like, well, if the
Speaker 2: best guy's there and values it, it doesn't mean he
Speaker 2: goes to everything, but he values meeting the guys because
Speaker 2: there's one thing to evaluate them off a tape. Everything's
Speaker 2: taped right, your workout and even your interviews, and some
Speaker 2: of these guys now can be there in a zoom interview.
Speaker 2: There is a big difference if you're interviewing someone to
Speaker 2: be the thirteenth overall pick standing there and talking to
Speaker 2: him in meeting him, seeing him face to face, than
Speaker 2: zooming him. So I do believe you should go. I
Speaker 2: saw my guy, Tim Kala Kami in the Bay Area.
Speaker 2: Kyle Shanahan, like McVeigh stopped going, Well, it's one thing
Speaker 2: when you're going to the Super Bowl or the NFC
Speaker 2: Championship every year, he reported, Kyle's probably gonna go this year.
Speaker 2: Kind of need to meet these guys. Yeah, But my
Speaker 2: thing is like if the top coach is there and
Speaker 2: the Sandy Reed runs the league, like you should be there.
Speaker 2: And so I do believe there's value not in like
Speaker 2: you're change of direction in a condra okay, but like
Speaker 2: you might draft this guy in the second round. It's
Speaker 2: kind of gonna be a big deal when it's like
Speaker 2: a year in you hate the kid and it's your
Speaker 2: own fault when you didn't put in max effort to
Speaker 2: get to know him, to get to meet him every opportunity.
Speaker 2: I mean, at this point in time, the salary CAP's
Speaker 2: almost three hundred million dollars. It's pretty big business. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, these are your most important assets. So I
Speaker 2: do think the value is more less about the running
Speaker 2: and catching the gauntlet drill and more just sitting with
Speaker 2: the kid and interviewing him and being there with your coordinators.
Speaker 2: Not every coach needs to go. But to me, the
Speaker 2: head coach and the coordinators should all be present with
Speaker 2: the with the scouting staff.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. There's going to be you can
Speaker 1: go back to last year's draft, the year before. There
Speaker 1: are certain things that are just innate. They're true. You
Speaker 1: can't argue them. There's going to be a couple players
Speaker 1: in the top fifteen that will be busts. They just
Speaker 1: won't be very good, and for a variety of issues.
Speaker 1: Some I mean, Romadonze is talented, he wasn't as good
Speaker 1: as I thought as a rookie. I think he'll I
Speaker 1: mean I thought that'd be more splash, but I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it was. It was such a mess,
Speaker 1: you know, it was all a mess, and I think
Speaker 1: he'll bounce back. I'm gonna throw Travis Hunter out as
Speaker 1: a player that could be that could underachieve. So I
Speaker 1: don't doubt he's good enough to be a number two
Speaker 1: receiver in the NFL and a number one corner, no
Speaker 1: doubt either. But to ask to be both, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you had a great linebacker who also played tight end,
Speaker 1: it's undeniable that the physical toll would hurt what you're
Speaker 1: best at. I would put him at corner but he
Speaker 1: wants to be a receiver. I don't know if he's
Speaker 1: a number one receiver in the NFL. Maybe on a
Speaker 1: weaker team. He's certainly good enough. But you can't be
Speaker 1: a number one receiver if you have a young quarterback
Speaker 1: who's trying to get reps. Confidence in timing. It's a
Speaker 1: timing position. Running Back isn't Cornerback isn't You can I
Speaker 1: mean high school to college, college of the pros. Running
Speaker 1: back in cornerback, you can walk in and just play.
Speaker 1: You could just I mean, those are two positions. I've
Speaker 1: been told this forever. You would know this as a scout.
Speaker 1: Running back in cornerback, you could miss some of camp,
Speaker 1: you could be a you could have a contract hold out.
Speaker 1: You're ready to play week one or week two.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a very instinctive position.
Speaker 1: Yet both of them wide receiver, especially with a young quarterback.
Speaker 1: What's a timing position help? Brady was an old cornerback.
Speaker 1: If he didn't trust you'd be in the right spot,
Speaker 1: Tom would ghost you. I think Travis Hunter, I think
Speaker 1: this coming to a bad team, he'll have a lot
Speaker 1: of leverage. He'll play both ways. I could see that
Speaker 1: being a problem.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, and we'll find out it was just
Speaker 2: a name on a paper. Did announce he's going to
Speaker 2: the combine as a corner. Now all the top guys
Speaker 2: will be interviewed they go to the podium. It'll be
Speaker 2: interesting if he says, I'm here as a corner, but
Speaker 2: I also plan on playing wide receiver. I do think
Speaker 2: it's fair to say most high level people in any
Speaker 2: industry are very singular focused, and it is very difficult
Speaker 2: to spread yourself thin, especially when your factory in youth.
Speaker 2: I mean he's very young. I think it's impossible to
Speaker 2: go do what he did. What he did in college
Speaker 2: was the Big twelve, wasn't the SEC or the Big ten,
Speaker 2: but it was still one of the greatest athletic achievements
Speaker 2: we've ever seen. The amount of snaps he's playing to
Speaker 2: you agree with, Oh yeah, but if you're going to
Speaker 2: be a both way corner wide receiver just playing corner alone,
Speaker 2: think of the wide receivers right now in the NFL.
Speaker 2: The talent on a weekly basis of just pick up
Speaker 2: a random team who their schedule is on a week
Speaker 2: you're chasing those guys for sixty seventy snaps. He would
Speaker 2: be the number one corner, and then you would try
Speaker 2: to play full time wide receiver. I think it would
Speaker 2: be borderline impossible on the body. I don't think it's
Speaker 2: And you go back to look at Deon Sanders. I
Speaker 2: don't even think he had that many catches in his career.
Speaker 2: And this is and Dion, I mean, was just a
Speaker 2: better prospect. Yeah, I mean, Tary Sound is a great prospect.
Speaker 2: Give me a break. Deon's one of the greast athletes
Speaker 2: in the history of America, right So, I do think
Speaker 2: he just needs to focus on one of the positions,
Speaker 2: and I hope and I think he's making the right
Speaker 2: decision right now at corner, and then he can be
Speaker 2: at just a high level corner. I don't think it's
Speaker 2: possible to go both ways. I don't think any team
Speaker 2: wants him to be. That doesn't mean you can't, you know,
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson type coordinator, can't run a trick player for him,
Speaker 2: bring him in on offense. They used to do that
Speaker 2: with Dion when I was a kid. But like, I
Speaker 2: want you to be a lockdown corner, Derek Stingley, He's
Speaker 2: probably gonna get a hundred million dollars offseason. Why because
Speaker 2: he goes up against your number one wide receiver who
Speaker 2: are all making one hundred and eighty million dollars and
Speaker 2: locks him down. Derevas did it, Sherman did it? You
Speaker 2: get paid a lot of money, and he's it's more
Speaker 2: valuable because harder to find. It's much easier to find
Speaker 2: a wide receiver than it is a corner. There just
Speaker 2: aren't that many. Most teams don't have one good corner, right.
Speaker 2: The teams that have two are like complete outliers in
Speaker 2: the national yets. Yeah, so I hope he stays just
Speaker 2: at one. Now we'll see. I think, you know, Dion,
Speaker 2: who's essentially like feels like his father, constantly talks like
Speaker 2: he's going to do both ways, like, so he's not
Speaker 2: slowing it down. And I do think Dion speaks for
Speaker 2: Travis a little bit, and Travis hasn't walked away from it.
Speaker 2: So I do think it's going to be interesting to
Speaker 2: see in Indy when he talks exactly what he says,
Speaker 2: because if he does say like I plan on doing both,
Speaker 2: like he's telling you, like eventually you got to just
Speaker 2: listen to what he's saying and believe him.
Speaker 1: Well, and the other thing, because I mean we'll talk
Speaker 1: through free agency and the combine and the draft, and
Speaker 1: I'll do some basketball pods as well. But the other
Speaker 1: thing that is, and we talked a little bit a
Speaker 1: bit about this last time. I can't tell you the
Speaker 1: last time a player as good as Miles Garrett was
Speaker 1: on the market. I don't even I mean, I'm dead serious.
Speaker 1: This feels so Buffalo or Green Bay. I saw something
Speaker 1: during the break I was on my phone and I
Speaker 1: tried to stay off it, but Warren Sharp, who does
Speaker 1: a lot of NFL stuff, had this breakdown of Josh
Speaker 1: Allen over the last several years, and it is a
Speaker 1: crime he hasn't been into a super Bowl. He is
Speaker 1: number one in so many different analytic categories that it's
Speaker 1: a crime that he's not getting the super Bowls. And
Speaker 1: so I do think you can keep running it back
Speaker 1: with Sean m McDermott. But you're getting to a point
Speaker 1: now you're like, Okay, he's going to be coming out
Speaker 1: of his prime in about three years, Like you got
Speaker 1: to get him to super bowls. Look at that, And
Speaker 1: I think to myself, Von Miller's getting older, what would
Speaker 1: you give up? And I know it's a non quarterback,
Speaker 1: but I got to tell you I would have absolutely
Speaker 1: no problem because I think they've got most of their
Speaker 1: offensive pieces in check and they've drafted well on that side.
Speaker 1: Do you give up two ones?
Speaker 2: Is he that?
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that today on the flight. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I think it's the only defensive player outside of Aaron
Speaker 1: Donald in his prime that I would give up too.
Speaker 2: I think they are the team you could throw potentially
Speaker 2: the Lions, but they got Hutchinson coming back of Like
Speaker 2: you're right there on the doorstep. You have played the Chiefs.
Speaker 2: You're the only team in the AFC that's like go.
Speaker 2: They could have beat him every time they played him,
Speaker 2: but they beat him in the regular season. So it's
Speaker 2: like you are a player or two away. And I
Speaker 2: remember when they paid von Miller all that money felt
Speaker 2: like a little desperate, risky and that blew up in
Speaker 2: their face.
Speaker 1: He just he just was, this doesn't ram this late,
Speaker 1: it perfect, this doesn't feel Yeah they did. It was
Speaker 1: the classic. You know, Andy Reid, somebody comes in plays
Speaker 1: well with Mahomes. Let him go that Von Miller felt overpaid.
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett is on a short list. I mean he's
Speaker 1: kind of entering into a Donald Lawrence Taylor. He may
Speaker 1: not be there yet, but Jesus, he's close.
Speaker 2: I think I've told you this before. I you know,
Speaker 2: looking back back at historical comps, I think Reggie White
Speaker 2: who went to the Packers, that's thirty two, you know,
Speaker 2: in Reggie Miles is younger. You know, Miles is I
Speaker 2: think twenty nine years old. But still, anytime you are
Speaker 2: trading that much to give a guy a third contract,
Speaker 2: you know, this would be his third contract. And I
Speaker 2: don't blame the Browns like I would keep hanging up,
Speaker 2: but I think you could get a pretty historic call
Speaker 2: for a guy twenty nine thirty years old. And the
Speaker 2: other thing is you got to look at his body type.
Speaker 2: It's gonna age well. I mean, he's just a complete
Speaker 2: freaking nature, you know, unlike you know, somebody Lawrence Talor.
Speaker 2: I don't think there are any questions off the field.
Speaker 2: No one's ever questioned like his his being in shape
Speaker 2: or I mean every time you see him that basketball
Speaker 2: highlight he had years ago, he looked like an NBA player.
Speaker 2: I mean, he like jumps out of pools from the
Speaker 2: deep end. I just wonder, you know, the Browns are
Speaker 2: in a weird spot right now. They're just got the
Speaker 2: you got the Watson kind of contract anchoring the franchise,
Speaker 2: you're drafting two overall, your star player wants out. I
Speaker 2: do think it's the right time to just blow it up.
Speaker 2: But let's face it that their owner Can has proven
Speaker 2: to be a little bit of you know, kind of
Speaker 2: a kook sometimes with the way he operates, and he
Speaker 2: gets really involved because they do have you know, their
Speaker 2: GM smart. He's a Roseman guy. I think we both
Speaker 2: agree Stefanski's pretty high level, good coach. But I think
Speaker 2: anything's possible anytime you get the Browns. They even said,
Speaker 2: like I do think they will throw here's one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty million dollars, And it's one thing to say, hey,
Speaker 2: I want to trade, I want out. And if someone
Speaker 2: puts one hundred and fifty million dollars guaranteed run of
Speaker 2: Miles Garrett, like, would he resign with the Browns? Is
Speaker 2: this a money play? When I've seen the clips of
Speaker 2: him talking to Super Bowl, it actually felt pretty measured,
Speaker 2: like I actually don't think this is really He's already
Speaker 2: super rich, Like this is about like we ain't winning here,
Speaker 2: especially in this division against Burrow and Lamar, we have
Speaker 2: no chance. So get me the hell out of here.
Speaker 1: And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business brought to
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Speaker 1: gonna throw something at you.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this the way, and your life
Speaker 1: is probably a lot like this. You also do a
Speaker 1: golf pod, but for six months of the year, I
Speaker 1: don't take any time off. I work every day, even
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Day. After Thanksgiving there's tons of football games on.
Speaker 1: I've got a notepad and I write no so and
Speaker 1: I know it's not ditch digging. I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1: But I work every day for six months and then
Speaker 1: I take seven weeks off over the next six months
Speaker 1: until Labor Day. Right, And I was thinking about this,
Speaker 1: and I was as I was flying from Chicago to
Speaker 1: La this afternoon. I thought about you in this question.
Speaker 1: So I don't watch Netflix or anything outside of sports
Speaker 1: from Labor Day weekend until the end of football, and
Speaker 1: then I take a week off like I just did,
Speaker 1: and then for about six months now, I watch a
Speaker 1: lot of Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon Prime, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: I'll watch series. So I watched Zero Day with Robert
Speaker 1: de Niro. It's okay. I thought de Niro was really good.
Speaker 1: I thought the acting was good, the plot was a little.
Speaker 2: It kicked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. It's again. The acting is really good
Speaker 1: and it plays. You can watch it. So I like
Speaker 1: six episodes. But I was sitting there and I'm thinking
Speaker 1: to myself. One of the reasons, and I really think
Speaker 1: this is happening, is that events are still working. March
Speaker 1: Madness still kicks, ass gets a rating. College football games,
Speaker 1: NFL games, World Cup, Olympics, UFC all still get great numbers.
Speaker 1: Anything Monday through Friday. Baseball, NBA, hockey, MLS really struggling.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there watching Zero Day. I watched it
Speaker 1: over the course of two or three days with my wife.
Speaker 1: She didn't like it as much as me, and it was,
Speaker 1: you know, it was stuff was blown up. It was government,
Speaker 1: it was politics, it was DeNiro. I was all in
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this that hockey, baseball, basketball,
Speaker 1: mls are all struggling Monday through Friday because they're not events.
Speaker 1: And what's happened is My take is once football ends
Speaker 1: our nation, its favorite sport for six months is Netflix,
Speaker 1: and that they'll come in for an NBA final or
Speaker 1: a World Cup or an Olympics. But football and college football,
Speaker 1: but mostly the NFL, it is a six month event.
Speaker 1: Those Sundays and Saturdays, those are events. You go to them,
Speaker 1: you watch them, your friends watch them. Netflix doesn't do
Speaker 1: a lot of production during that time, knowing why release
Speaker 1: new stuff. Guys are checked out for six months. But
Speaker 1: I was sitting there watching in baseball's regular season, basketball, hockey,
Speaker 1: Hockey's having a horrible regular season ratings. And my take
Speaker 1: is because they're competing with now the biggest offseason sport,
Speaker 1: which is Netflix. Streaming has gobbled up post football to
Speaker 1: Labor Day. A lot of these numbers. Now, I'm saying
Speaker 1: that because I'm a sportscaster and I have to watch sports.
Speaker 1: But man, when I got a week off, and if
Speaker 1: I wasn't a sportscaster. Bro, I'm on streaming just I
Speaker 1: am on streaming with my wife watching shows.
Speaker 2: Well, let's use me as an example. I couldn't have
Speaker 2: been a bigger sports fan as a kid, through college
Speaker 2: and even when I got worked in the NFL. I
Speaker 2: love baseball, love basketball. But as this podcast has taken
Speaker 2: off and we've had success and we're just football is
Speaker 2: just kind of takes up my life. Yes, I don't
Speaker 2: want if I watched the baseball playoffs. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to talk about it, but I know it's big culturally.
Speaker 2: Other people are talking and I want to watch it.
Speaker 2: It's fun, but I know the other games. Why would
Speaker 2: I watch when I don't have to and no one
Speaker 2: else I feel is the matter?
Speaker 1: And you sacrifice your life with your soon to be
Speaker 1: wife for six months. You sacrifice your.
Speaker 2: Life so we don't have Thursdays, Saturday, Sundays, Sunday nights,
Speaker 2: Monday nights. So even during the season, or I mean,
Speaker 2: you know during September and October you got to give
Speaker 2: up Tuesdays and Wednesdays, right, you know Fridays you can't
Speaker 2: just watch like Lakers Kings in late October when it's like,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about this now, I just want
Speaker 2: to watch it. You know, I got a I got
Speaker 2: two hundred dollars on Deer and Foxes over under here
Speaker 2: you know doesn't fly, and it was much easier to
Speaker 2: do that when I was younger. I also think, you
Speaker 2: just bring up Netflix. I saw orright, I heard on
Speaker 2: a podcast that YouTube where it's consumed the most is
Speaker 2: not on a phone or an iPad. It's actually on televisions.
Speaker 2: And that's obviously the youth. Right, that's a lot of
Speaker 2: younger people watch YouTube ontel. I don't view it like
Speaker 2: an app like I do Netflix or Amazon Prime. But
Speaker 2: people under twenty five do. Yeah, and in ten years
Speaker 2: those people are going to be thirty years old. And
Speaker 2: it's just the options we have to watch TV. I
Speaker 2: think about when you know, forever, just basic cable, you
Speaker 2: would if nothing was on TV, you just scroll around,
Speaker 2: You dead up on random movies. You just watch Saving
Speaker 2: Private Ryan because it was on TBS. You never scroll anymore. Right,
Speaker 2: it doesn't even really exist. I don't even have I
Speaker 2: talk about television sports for a living. I don't have
Speaker 2: a cable box in my house. I have YouTube TV.
Speaker 2: It doesn't even exist right now. Granted, I go to
Speaker 2: YouTube TV at Fox Sports one at nine o'clock in
Speaker 2: the morning, you come up, or CNBC or whatever, so
Speaker 2: it's I still have television, but it's completely different than
Speaker 2: just five years ago. I also think I've had this theory.
Speaker 2: You know, for a long time, we thought the NFL
Speaker 2: was playing those London games to move the Jags to London, right,
Speaker 2: which clearly is not true. Because he just spent hundreds
Speaker 2: of millions of dollars. They're gonna stay in Jacksonville at least,
Speaker 2: that's what you know. He's invested a bunch of money there,
Speaker 2: what I think, and maybe once upon a time that
Speaker 2: was the goal. I think what they've realized the last
Speaker 2: three or four years. They just announce another Brazil game
Speaker 2: going to Germany. Well, where's Netflix's audience worldwide? So I
Speaker 2: can sell the Netflix in four years when I opt
Speaker 2: out of this thing. I'm not just getting John in
Speaker 2: Arizona or Collins Chicago, or Bill in Tampa Bay. I'm
Speaker 2: getting James on an Air Force base in Germany, or
Speaker 2: Craig in Australia, or you know some dude in Brazil
Speaker 2: that likes football. So my numbers, I'm not just beholden
Speaker 2: to the American market, Yeah, which crushes in football. I'm worldwide, baby,
Speaker 2: and I can't obviously through you and through the platform
Speaker 2: that you have given me the amount of people listening
Speaker 2: to me that are like, Hey, I'm from Australia, I
Speaker 2: got a question about the Cowboys, or Hey I'm from Germany.
Speaker 2: I'm a huge Niner guy. I mean this is it's
Speaker 2: not a worldwide sport like soccer. But in terms of
Speaker 2: the way Netflix, once they get involved with the NFL,
Speaker 2: it won't just be people in the States consuming the
Speaker 2: products and they just saw it. Now. It's different than
Speaker 2: Mike Tyson Jake Paul Thing, but that got one hundred
Speaker 2: million people worldwide. So I think the NFL is pivoted
Speaker 2: to these international games to grow the audience to sell
Speaker 2: to the streamers. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1: I think you're I think you're right on the money.
Speaker 1: I think you know, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: Why would they be playing in Brazil? Again, what's the point.
Speaker 1: Well, but I also think broadcast networks are attracted. For instance,
Speaker 1: when Netflix had their football game, CBS produced it. So
Speaker 1: the Netflix, I still don't love Amazon's production as much
Speaker 1: as I do Fox or CBS or or ABC.
Speaker 2: I like that. I think Fox is the I'm an
Speaker 2: NFC guy. I think Fox is the best.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've I've worked at I've worked for NBC,
Speaker 1: I've worked for ESBN, ABC, I've worked for Fox. I
Speaker 1: think Fox's production is great. Now. I do think NBC
Speaker 1: is magical on the Olympics and deserves all the love.
Speaker 1: I but I think I think if I was Netflix,
Speaker 1: I don't want to create a sports division. All use
Speaker 1: Fox or CBS. I'll use their production people. I just
Speaker 1: want to buy the rights, stream it and get eyeballs,
Speaker 1: and then then I'll pay for it to be produced
Speaker 1: instead of creating one hundred person remote unit or bidding
Speaker 1: for rights for the entire package. I'll take six games
Speaker 1: a year and I'll just use somebody else's production because
Speaker 1: I think that's what networks provide. And I don't think
Speaker 1: Netflix and Amazon are as good in my because I've
Speaker 1: known people that have moved to Amazon. I think Amazon
Speaker 1: does retail exceptionally well. I think they've been clunky at
Speaker 1: The Washington Post. I think they've been clunky at Whole Foods.
Speaker 1: I don't think Whole Foods is nearly as good as
Speaker 1: it was before Amazon bought it.
Speaker 2: I don't an Amazon drop off. That's what I viewed as. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, if your stuff, I just.
Speaker 1: Don't go to it anymore. So I think Amazon does
Speaker 1: retail exceptionally well. They're getting their feet wet in sports,
Speaker 1: but I think they have a long way to go
Speaker 1: to be as good as CBS, Fox or ABC.
Speaker 2: Well, what I think is going to happen is and
Speaker 2: Goodell has already hinted at this is which I'm not
Speaker 2: a huge fan of. And luckily most of these games
Speaker 2: are relevant. You live on the West Coast. When they
Speaker 2: play that international morning game sometimes six thirty in the morning,
Speaker 2: it's like I got to get up to watch Titans
Speaker 2: Jags here at six am. But they're gonna have And
Speaker 2: Goodell's not just hinted at this, He's kind of talked
Speaker 2: about we plan on having potentially a whole slate, you know,
Speaker 2: not eight games, but like fifteen. We couldn't you sell
Speaker 2: that as a package like Amazon Prime Boom to Netflix.
Speaker 2: They're all over at the International you know, all over
Speaker 2: the world. Every single morning. Starting week two, there is
Speaker 2: a six thirty am Pacific Standard time game and Netflix
Speaker 2: pays like Amazon out of the blue. These games would
Speaker 2: have existed anyway at like Fox or CBS, you know,
Speaker 2: with the eleven other ones in the morning slate. You
Speaker 2: just put it as a it's not a primetime game,
Speaker 2: but it's in its solo slate. It's not competing against anybody,
Speaker 2: and you sell it for whatever, I don't know, two
Speaker 2: billion a year, Yeah, right, because wouldn't you say that
Speaker 2: Thursday night football the next go round, Amazon or Netflix
Speaker 2: is going to pay more than they're paying now. Yeah,
Speaker 2: once they're proving they get fifteen million people to watch
Speaker 2: it every single Thursday night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I I not just because I work
Speaker 1: at Fox. I like I like broadcast quality production on
Speaker 1: my football games. I think they're really really good at it.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't think the streamers are there yet.
Speaker 1: I thought the Paul Tyson fiasco.
Speaker 2: It didn't work.
Speaker 1: It was a mess. It was embarrassing everything, the production,
Speaker 1: the fight, the marketing, none of it worked for me.
Speaker 1: I thought it was bad. So and again, I'm a
Speaker 1: devoted Netflix washer, but there are things, you know, I've
Speaker 1: always been a believer r years and years ago, you know,
Speaker 1: when sports gambling became big. You know, Supreme Court rules
Speaker 1: in favor of it, and you know, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of money being thrown around. And I had talked
Speaker 1: to a couple of the bigger players, and my take
Speaker 1: was always, I like doing business because I bet on sports,
Speaker 1: but I didn't want gambling companies to be my boss.
Speaker 1: I wanted broadcasters to be my boss, because I'm a
Speaker 1: broadcaster and if I was, if I was a podcaster,
Speaker 1: that's why the volume we do podcasts, digital media, that's
Speaker 1: our specialty. And so I think Netflix does documentaries and
Speaker 1: true crime and movies, and I don't think sports is
Speaker 1: their go to. And the idea that hey, we've got
Speaker 1: a lot of money, let's just throw it at sports. Now,
Speaker 1: I think Amazon's gotten much much better on Thursday Night football,
Speaker 1: but they still don't feel to me as good as
Speaker 1: the networks. And you know, they have more money than
Speaker 1: the networks, So it's not like a resources issue. It's
Speaker 1: a they don't quite have as good a feel for
Speaker 1: it right now. And so this idea that Netflix, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I've watched the Netflix sports. They don't have a
Speaker 1: feel for it. And they're content people. Amazon's a retail giant.
Speaker 1: I mean that go look at the Washington Post fiasco,
Speaker 1: that's a mess. The grocery store stuff, it's not very good.
Speaker 1: So I am a loyal too. And I also like, honestly,
Speaker 1: how much do we ask fans to chase around games?
Speaker 1: Can you just put them on the ten o'clock one
Speaker 1: o'clock window West coast or East coast it's one and four.
Speaker 1: I mean you're getting to a point where these fans now,
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes with Baseball, Roku, Apple, Fox guys, you're
Speaker 1: making it hard for fans.
Speaker 2: Well, I think Fox and CBS have been the only
Speaker 2: two networks that have just all the games they've had
Speaker 2: have just been on Fox and CBS. I mean ESPN
Speaker 2: put one on ESPN Plus last year. Obviously the Peacock thing,
Speaker 2: which again I I understand, like, is NBC gonna survive? Right?
Speaker 2: It is out for Peacock. You a big picture, right,
Speaker 2: I mean that's that's you know, CBS and Fox have
Speaker 2: been such stalwarts with the NFL from the for so long.
Speaker 2: I mean they have just been hand in hand and
Speaker 2: there's some loyalty. I mean, the NFL is not like
Speaker 2: many industries where it's you know, management things constantly. The
Speaker 2: same families have owned these businesses forever every once in
Speaker 2: a while they get a new owner. But the Jones family,
Speaker 2: the Hunt family, the Davis family, you just go around
Speaker 2: like the Bardelo Yorks, I mean the same people, the
Speaker 2: Spanos family. These people have been in for decades, the
Speaker 2: crafts and all their kids are going to get it.
Speaker 2: So I just believe that they look at you know,
Speaker 2: they just create something out of nothing and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: here's an international slate. Here's two billion dollars of games
Speaker 2: that we were going to throw that you and I
Speaker 2: would have had on a little box on Sunday ticket
Speaker 2: not even paid attention to. And they'll get two billion
Speaker 2: dollars for it. Now. Can this maintain forever? I don't
Speaker 2: know how long football will dominate, but it does feel
Speaker 2: like they're really in the peak of their business.
Speaker 1: Powers right now, right yeah, But you know it's not
Speaker 1: even a loyalty thing. I I like to be in
Speaker 1: business with people who are proficient at what they do,
Speaker 1: Like you're really good at football, right, like I you know,
Speaker 1: just speaking about the volume, you know, we hire people
Speaker 1: who are YouTube specialists to handle our YouTube business, like
Speaker 1: we hire really good podcasters to do podcasts. This idea
Speaker 1: that you know, streamers come in and they've got a
Speaker 1: feel for I mean, Apple's baseball was awful. I try
Speaker 1: to watch it was it was awful, And I'm not
Speaker 1: disparaging any individual.
Speaker 2: It just was bad.
Speaker 1: Roku not good enough. So I'm sorry when I when
Speaker 1: I watched the networks do sports like for A prime
Speaker 1: example of this is the NBA deal and and ESPN,
Speaker 1: you know, maintains its rights and they'll do fine. And
Speaker 1: I don't love everything about their coverage, but it's consistent.
Speaker 1: Amazon and NBC take big stabs at it, and my
Speaker 1: guess is it's gonna be it's gonna take Amazon and
Speaker 1: NBC two to three years in this deal to figure
Speaker 1: it out minimum.
Speaker 2: No, I'm with you there, are.
Speaker 1: You gonna Are you gonna go to Amazon to watch NBA?
Speaker 2: I'm not No, No, I mean Colin, I don't go
Speaker 2: to ABC to watch NBA. I mean the Warriors play
Speaker 2: the MAVs. I watched probably ten minutes today, So no, no,
Speaker 2: But as anyone, that's the thing that's that is where
Speaker 2: football and its value is so strong, Like it's proven
Speaker 2: they can throw random game on peacock and twenty million
Speaker 2: people be pissed off and tweeted about it. But they'll
Speaker 2: still watch. I think you throw baseball and you throw
Speaker 2: basketball behind some of these paywalls a little different animal. Listen,
Speaker 2: I got involved with the athletic right when it started.
Speaker 2: There were some people that drew a lot of revenue.
Speaker 2: Our guy Ethan Strauss, he's a cash cow. You put
Speaker 2: him mind it. People will come a lot of people.
Speaker 2: And these people were businessmen beside it. So you're getting
Speaker 2: no subscriptions here and we're paying you four hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: It was very black and white. I think baseball, like
Speaker 2: in basketball, it's gonna be very eye opening, Like how
Speaker 2: many people just watch this game? How many people just
Speaker 2: watched the Bulls played the Magic two hundred thousand people
Speaker 2: watch this game? I mean you know, I mean there
Speaker 2: are not you can tell me. They dominate on social media.
Speaker 2: They are not gonna go watch regular season random games
Speaker 2: with a lot of these brands. Even if you put
Speaker 2: if I just put Lakers, just pick a random upon
Speaker 2: like Lakers Atlanta Hawks on a streaming service next week,
Speaker 2: relative to what it would be on ESPN or ABC
Speaker 2: behind a street, it would get cut. I think it
Speaker 2: would be twenty percent of that number if it would
Speaker 2: be tiny. Yeah, don't you agree there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's very difficult. I think I saw
Speaker 1: the NBA wanted to do what the NFL did divvy
Speaker 1: it up, and it's smart business by them. But I'm
Speaker 1: just telling you, I'm gonna stay watching NBA on the
Speaker 1: network I've been watching the NBA. That will be ESPN
Speaker 1: and ABC is where I will watch a majority of
Speaker 1: my NBA. Now, NFL or College Football World Cup all
Speaker 1: go anywhere. UFC. I buy the cards. I go to
Speaker 1: four or five. We should go to one.
Speaker 2: By the way.
Speaker 1: I go to four or five UFC fights during during
Speaker 1: the summer. Oh, there's so much fun, and then I
Speaker 1: buy three or four. So I would say about thirty
Speaker 1: to fifty percent of the time I'm watching the UFC fights.
Speaker 1: So that gets me behind a paywall. NFL, major college football.
Speaker 1: There are some things I would pay for. I mean,
Speaker 1: Dodger Yankee World Series. I'm gonna pay for that and
Speaker 1: watch that. But if you think regular season NBA, I'm
Speaker 1: going to a streamer, You're out of your mind.
Speaker 2: And that's where Amazon aren't they playing a different game?
Speaker 2: Like ultimately, Netflix wants me to stay and watch other shows.
Speaker 2: Amazon wants me to order like Maria yelling at me,
Speaker 2: we need protein bars. Boom, one button. We had protein
Speaker 2: bars delivered ten minutes later, right, or we need laundry
Speaker 2: detergent like. Their business is completely different than a lot
Speaker 2: of these other streamers that are just the media entity.
Speaker 2: There's are hosting data, you know, retail business delivering, and
Speaker 2: they are. It is really incredible what they you can
Speaker 2: press the button have something.
Speaker 1: To Amazon is the most I mean, let's in my life.
Speaker 2: I hate I hate going to the store, and they
Speaker 2: have enabled me to never really have to go through.
Speaker 1: Amazon is maybe the only company in my life every
Speaker 1: single family member uses. My sister lives really, my wife's
Speaker 1: in Chicago, I'll be there soon. Sun's up in Oregon.
Speaker 1: It's the only company in my life. I mean, Microsoft
Speaker 1: is a big deal Intel, you know, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of anything comparable everybody. So Amazon is a retail giant.
Speaker 1: They're not a content company. Now they're pivoting to that.
Speaker 1: So Netflix, you would think, because they're a content company,
Speaker 1: would be it would be a much easier pivot to
Speaker 1: do sports content. But I'm telling you, some of their
Speaker 1: early stuff has just not worked for me at all.
Speaker 1: And I say that as a devoted Netflix consumer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they're not really in the live business.
Speaker 2: All their stuff is pre taped movies and shows. Correct. Yes,
Speaker 2: So it's just people in Hollywood or wherever producing this stuff.
Speaker 2: I just think we're they they're you know, Netflix, their money,
Speaker 2: and they're clearly dipping their toe in with the Christmas
Speaker 2: game is going to continue. I do think it's it's
Speaker 2: inevitable that they get just that morning package, yes, and
Speaker 2: just a number that everyone's he just paid what for
Speaker 2: six thirty am games.
Speaker 1: I'll watch them, though, to be honest with you, I'll
Speaker 1: watch them. I know it's sad, all right. John Middlicoff
Speaker 1: knocked out an hour former NFL Scout three and out podcast.
Speaker 1: Good to be back. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 2: Take it easy coin the volume.
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