WEBVTT - Leo Sayer 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.840 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the barth Websites podcast. My 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.400 guest today was the one and only Meal Sah we 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.200 are good day approprim nice to be here. Bub. You 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.720 in Australia. Why astral h good question. Well, after I 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:28.479 had made my first record and silver Bird my first 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:34.800 album in I went straight to America on tour because 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:36.400 things were happening on a lot of a lot of 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.159 interest in America, and you know, we signed up with 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:43.960 Warner Brothers for the USA and Canada at that time, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.000 and South America, I guess, and the rest of the 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:52.600 world was Chrysalis Records in England. Um. And after the 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.320 American tour which went fantastic, um, it was just a 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.520 huge success. Uh, there was a call for me to 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.600 come to US Astralia. So I came down to Australia. 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:06.720 And when I came, it was by this time and 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:11.640 a buzz had already really started. So I arrived in Melbourne, 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.800 I think it was arrived in Melbourne to absolute well, 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.800 it was like Beatlemania. You know, the airport was jammed 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.920 with people. There were people waving at the plane as 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.320 we came in from the observation deck of the airport. 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.520 And journalists were immediately, you know, beseeching me, and I 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.360 had lots of stupid questions asked at the airport, you know, 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.640 like why did you come to Australia, what do you 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.280 or even what do you think of Australia. Well he 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.600 hasn't even got it yet, you know, so it was crazy. 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.040 And but this tour was just amazing and I fell 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.520 in love with the place. And we had a a sponsor, 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.640 a wonderful guy called redg and Set who ran an 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:57.600 airline which is now defunct called and Set Airlines. And 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.520 Bob had his own private plane. So he said to me, Um, 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:04.680 do you want to what places would you like to 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.079 go to in Australia Because we'd had an incredibly successful 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.639 to us sold out everywhere, so he wanted to give 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:12.679 me a gift and he just said, look, I'll fly 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.919 you to six places you choose. Just put a pear 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:17.880 on the map and we can get there. There's air 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.760 there's air fields everywhere. So yeah, I went to the 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.280 famous airs Rock you know, which is now Ulura Uluru 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.800 as it's called the area you Laura, um. And we 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.480 went to Northern Cans and we went to Broom where 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.840 they shot the you know, Chariots of Fire movie, and 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.480 you see those guys, you know the Endless sands. That's 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.440 that's this incredible place. And we went down to Tasmania. 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.040 We we flew to all these places, and I made 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.720 myself a vow that one day I was going to 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.320 come and live in Australia. I don't know why I 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.040 made it, It was just an instinctive thought. But when 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.200 you see the beauty of this place and you feel 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.760 the space and you feel the you know you can 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.240 be lonely here and yet happy. How can I describe that? 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.640 It's it's it's it's solitude that you can reach in 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:11.320 this place. Um and and a little bit less bs 0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.560 than the rest of the world, you know, they're a 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.760 bit less hype. So I kind of over the years, 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.120 I started coming back and coming back and coming back, 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:24.280 And when I finally moved in here in two thousand 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.840 and five with my lovely partner Donna Teller, who was 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.880 also a man my manager at the time as well. UM. 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.280 When we moved in, they asked me how many times 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.520 you have been to Australia then, you know, this is 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.360 the immigration standard question. I said forty five, which was 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.160 the absolute God's truth, you know. So so hey, it's 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.320 my it was my second hand home, you know. But 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.800 but let me say as well, I've always loved working 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.800 in exile. I mean when I lived in when I 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:56.000 lived in the States, in in California, and in briefly 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:00.560 in New York, made all those albums during the seventies. Yeah, 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.320 I felt really good at being away from home. My 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.000 father was a merchant seaman, so basically he sailed around 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.000 the world as a ship's engineer, and I suppose I 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.640 followed in his footsteps. I always loved traveling, and I 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.000 love being away from home. It pushed me more, you know, 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.600 And I think being here it pushes me to prove 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:23.040 myself all the time. Even though I'm seventy four in May, 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.240 I still feel I've got a lot to prove. Okay, 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.080 I've been to Australia a couple of times. I know 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.200 most of the people in the industry there, and they 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.920 talk about how far it is from everything. They are 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.880 thrilled when you actually go there, kind of like what 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:41.360 you're saying your first time in nine Oh. Yeah, absolutely, 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.159 but they also talk about the distance. It's certainly well 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.559 known in terms of bands Australia has the best live 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.680 bands because they're limited number of markets they have to 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.600 play all this time. But do you feel somewhat disconnected 0:04:55.960 --> 0:05:00.880 from the business, from the news, from anything. No, No, 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:02.839 not at all. And I think that, you know, I mean, 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.080 look at here, we are talking on zoom and we're 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.640 able to reach the world from wherever we are. I 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.359 mean I follow Formula one, you know, Grand pre Racing, 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.920 and most of the journalists who work on that, um 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.240 that business was always centered around England, around Britain, rather 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.440 like my version of the music business was always centered 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.040 around Britain. You know, it had to be Britain first. 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.200 That was the where you know, you've got the best 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.840 equipment for the studio, and that was where you kind 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.000 of that was where you worked. If that was your 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.680 that was your field, your place. Now, all these guys 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.120 in Formula one, they all live in Spain, they all 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.560 live in Italy, they all live in Germany because they 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:44.159 don't need to be in in Britain to do their work. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.159 So just like that, I mean, I think I've talked 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.120 to a few rock journalists who live in the Demonic 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.480 American rock journalists who live in Dominican Republic or Mexico, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.479 you know, or Canada, because we now have linked the 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.960 world by technology. So I think you don't and I 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.920 think you know if you if you follow some of 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:10.719 the the news media to find out about what's happening 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.120 in the business. Like this morning, I was looking at 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.680 Mixed Magazine, and you know, they're they're blog and finding 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.520 out about some new studio gear that I'm interested in, 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.200 and I feel like, yeah, at that moment I'm reading 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.360 Mixed Magazine, I'm I'm in California, you know. So so 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.120 I I think the world has got small and got closer. 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.960 Air travel is easier as well, you know. I mean, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.440 COVID's put a spike into a lot of what we do, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.600 traveling wise and international wise. But I think that I 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.320 don't feel disconnected, and I wake up every morning feeling 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:46.120 at home. You know. Let's start at Formula one. They 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.760 were just in Melbourne, did you go no, no, no, 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.279 I'm I'm a bit off it at the moment, although 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.680 I talked to about six different friends who are down there, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.000 you know, so I get the inside track, you know. So, 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.599 so yeah, and I over the years, I've just become 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:03.680 a little bit less of a racing guy and a 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.480 little bit more of a more of a chronicler. And 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.200 I mean, I'm writing my book at the moment, Bob. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.760 So I'm one thousand, four hundred words into the book 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:17.920 and chasing my chronicling my life. And I've got a 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.160 vast amount of material here. I'm working on everyday research, 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.600 you know, research, research, research, find out what I was 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.360 doing on June the eleven. You know, You've got a 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.440 couple of things. Let me ask. Yeah, George Harrison was 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.400 famously into Formula one. He was a good friend. You 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.200 were into Formula one? But what was the appeal back then? 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:41.560 I think that we all grew up. You know. Look, 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.840 boys grow up to either want to be racing drivers 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.520 or fighter pilots. It's the fantasy when you're at school. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.360 Maybe soccer players or American football players, or baseball players 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:56.480 or tennis players. But mostly I think boys, you know, 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.400 like that dare devil sport. You know that that that 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.640 devil may care kind of dangerous thing that you do. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.960 You know. So I grew up with motor racing. I 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.800 used to follow Phil Hill and Sterling Moss. My father 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.160 raced motorcycles, so you know, just as a spare time 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.000 kind of thing until his mom, until my mom stopped 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.560 him because it was too dangerous. Um And I remember 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.000 him taking me to the Goodwood Race Course, which is 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:27.400 very famous now for historic events. Um And we went 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.200 there and Sterling Moss crashed and right in front of us, 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.760 and it was a crash that nearly finished his career. 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.840 And I it was just one of those moments when 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.320 I just I thought that the smell of the petrol, 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.880 you know, the whole kind of screeching of tires, the 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.280 whole dangerous excitement of it, I just found very compelling. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:50.920 And you know the most beautiful part of that story 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.920 is that Sterling Moss became a friend many years later 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.880 because I met him through you know, Formula one. Of course, 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.200 now he knows I'm Leo say I'm not Jerry Sarah 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.120 any longer. Um And and we became pals and I 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:06.760 used to go to dinner with him all the time. 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.280 So it isn't incredible that you meet your heroes and 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:13.760 they become your friends. Okay, staying with Fromula one just 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.880 for another second. Yeah, why are you off it now? 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:19.360 And what do you think of the Netflix series? If 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.800 you've seen it? Can I say the word crap. Absolutely, 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:27.599 you can use if you want to. It's fucking crap. No. Um, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.280 I just think it's all become a little bit less Vegas, 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:35.800 you know. Um. Of course, the Americans group, you know, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.160 big group have taken it over, and of course they 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.080 want you know, you know, lots of lots of bodies 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.360 at the track, and they want to appeal to young 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.600 kids and girls and all of this stuff. But it's 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.120 not as pure as it used to be and the 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.600 rules are starting to get fudged around to kind of 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.440 make the best, uh, you know, the best result and 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.440 netflix the series. Although it's very well done, of course 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.160 you can't say it's not. Um. It tends to kind 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.320 of bring up kind of you know, it makes it 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:13.040 makes stories that aren't really true, you know, I don't know, 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:17.480 fictionalizes it and sort of dramatizes it. And I think 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:22.080 over dramatization, life's exciting enough, isn't it, Bob? You know, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.840 do we need to have a dramatist kind of rescript everything? 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:27.400 I mean, it's it's a bit like when you watch 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.600 a biopic movie. I can't watch the Queen movie or 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.080 the Rod Stewart movie, whatever they are. You know, I 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.839 just can't watch them because you know, they're just kind 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.720 of you know, enhancing all the details to to cry 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.040 and try and create something that somebody who's just not 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.120 interested in the subject of, say Jim Morrison, will be 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.439 attracted to. But I mean, anybody following the life of 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.960 Jim Morrison, boy, that's exciting enough as it is, you know, 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.079 I mean, I agree totally. Let me just ask you one, 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:02.480 why dramatized Janice Joplin When Janice Jock it was Janis Joplin. Man. Well, 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.640 that's one of the things that we've lost. Of course, 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.880 when you went to go see these acts before YouTube, etcetera, 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.120 and you experienced it live, it was something transcended. They 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.640 cannot be replicated today. Just the final note on Formula one, Yeah, 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.360 I got into it. But the final result last year 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.719 with Verse stopping taking over Hamilton's in the rules, I'm 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.640 eating out dreadful. Well, that's that's what's kind of that's 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.760 what's led me to this position. I mean, I gotta say, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.000 I mean, it's really a shame when you get your 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.080 best protagonists a bit a little bit like you know, um, 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.920 some fights are coming in in Muhammad Ali's Prime and 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:44.800 with four hands, you know, and you know, four arms, 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.720 and they let him box and he beats Ali of 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.840 course because he's got four arms. Um, and you're going 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.480 to call that legitimate, you know, it's the same thing. Really, 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.640 I mean, it's just I think it's kind of cheating. Personally, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:01.439 I think that guy had that race one. He driven brilliantly. 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.079 His story is the story of the greatest of all time. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.440 And I'm going to be controversial here and I'm saying, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.520 is it because he's black? I don't know. I mean, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.319 you know, it's a really it's a really difficult one 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.760 to get into. But they wanted the young, the Stapend 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.960 to win. They got for Stappen. I mean, the first 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.000 thing he did was put number one on his car, 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.560 which I think is kind of gratuitous, you know, to 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.360 say the least, because they all have their numbers and 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.160 their logos going with that. And of course you've got 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.160 the right if you win the championship to put number 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.680 one on your on your team, but on your car. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.400 But I mean mostly those drivers, they don't race on 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.400 those kind of ego principles. And and here you've got 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.600 an ego guy. Well you know, well, we'll see what happens. 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.560 The best news of all with to close on Formula 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.280 one is the Ferrari now looked like they're they're wrapping 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.000 it up. So that's fantastic that the oldest team, the 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:02.200 most traditional team. UM it's too young, wonderful young drivers. 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.160 UM is doing what it says on the packet, and 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:08.800 I think that's beautiful. If the Red Car wins, I'll 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.840 be very happy. Okay, let's go back to what you 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:16.240 said being in exile. Now, let's just talk about recording music. 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.000 So do you find it's easier to do in isolation 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.640 and exile? Yeah, well, I I've developed a way of 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:27.360 making records completely by myself, and I'm very proud of it. 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:32.160 I'm It's taken me a while to get there. But 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.880 you know, if I go back, I started as all 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.160 I wanted to be as a painter, an artist. I 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.920 was into you know, people as various as as as 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:49.480 Marcel Duchamp and Mark Rothko and and and Henri Russo 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.320 and and Van Gogh. But I mean I wanted to 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.880 be a painter. I at school, I was great at art. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.000 That was my great ability. I was a dyslexic kid, 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.320 so I leaned towards the creative side because I was 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.400 no good at the practical. My father was an engineer. 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.960 He was ashamed of me because I couldn't add put 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.120 two and two together. And I mean until I was nineteen, 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.680 I couldn't even tie my shoelaces. I didn't know what 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.240 left and right worth? Could you really not tie your shoelaces? 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.840 I really couldn't. I really couldn't. I was I was. 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.600 You know, I'd bulk at anything technical like that because 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.840 the laces would go in different positions. So my brain 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.520 told me, you know, left and right position, all this stuff. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.880 I mean, I still can't play drums. I can't coordinate 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:40.040 one hand on the other, so going you know, having 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:45.760 those disabilities leads to incredible mind and creative abilities. You know. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.200 So I could imagine things. I could I could see things. 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.360 I could work out perspective and distance in my head. 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.560 So I was born to be an artist. Now I 0:14:55.880 --> 0:15:00.880 went to art school. Um, my parents argued with the 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.560 the art school uh burses when we got in, you know, 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.800 so to say, he said, I don't want him be 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.080 in a bohemian and get him a job in commercial arts. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.120 So you know, I went into a commercial art course, 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.160 you know, to do that, which was very frustrating. But 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:17.960 I would bunk off all the time and go to 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.840 the life drawing classes and go to the art classes 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:23.880 and hang out with all the fine artists. You know. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.560 So I was already a rebel in that time. But 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.360 I don't know. I I just had this creative brain. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.720 I've always had that, and that that I mean, I 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.600 could sing. I sang in the church choir. I had 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.920 a wonderful priest who taught me to sing, so I 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.000 always had that in the background. And apparently I have 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:48.160 perfect pitch, so you know, that gave me the gift 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.200 of always been able to know what note I was 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.200 singing and tune into the sound of birds or whatever 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.280 in the background, you know, So I could find those things. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.040 So when I actually got to the studio and I 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.320 did working, of course, nobody would let me near the 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.520 control desk and that they just put me on the microphone. 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.000 But I mean they were amazed that I could walk, 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.160 I could go out and have a sandwich and come 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.480 back and sing in exactly the same key as I 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.280 had left the room singing in you know. So I 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.280 had those gifts. I had those abilities and I was 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.400 a quick learner a good observer as well. So all 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:26.440 the years that say, from seventy four, seventy three, maybe 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:31.560 seventy two, all the way until um, I was working 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:37.560 with other writers and other producers and learning their craft 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.720 by just observing them. So now I've got to this 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.160 finite point where I can do the lot myself. And 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.080 so I believe, going back to the art theory, that 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.800 if Van Gogh and Picasso and all those guys didn't 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.920 need somebody in the room to do the blues and 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.360 the reds for them, why can't I do the lot? 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.040 If I call myself an artist, I should be to 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.200 make the whole thing, so I should be able to 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.800 learn the technology to make it. Slave to me absolutely, So, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:09.200 you know, based on our discussions and preparations, it seems 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.720 like you're very technologically savvy intuitively, so I think I 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:18.360 think it's an intuitive thing. You know that I honestly 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.480 I read manuals and I don't know what the hell 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:25.000 I'm reading. And sometimes my engineer, live engineer, Damian Young, 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.479 great guy in Melbourne, sometimes has to do a screen 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.119 time thing with me, you know, with team viewer and 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.440 come onto the screen and sort out what I can't do. 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.960 Oh no, Leo, you do it like oh, I'm going, 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.920 Oh my god, what a klutz. But but we get there, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.800 you know, because I'm determined, my determination, and I can't 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.280 believe I'm seventy four in May and I'm still this ambitious, 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.320 determined guy who's got to prove all these things to himself. 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.240 But that's how I am, That's how I'm built. Okay, 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.480 So how much equipment do you have in the studio? 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.280 How professional is it? It's pretty pro I mean I 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:03.600 work with a computer which is kind of highly boosted. 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.720 I've got a whole server system in here, about twenty 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.320 one terror bytes of memory, and it's a whole radio 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.400 system with backups. If the power goes off here, which 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.560 it often does because we're in the country, um, I've 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.119 got a twenty four hour backup, so everything just clicks 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.080 in and works. I've got accelerated Internet as well, which 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.639 which helps me stay on touch with it all. I 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:31.399 have a necessar desk, some beautiful mics. I've got a 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.879 new mic by a guy called Lowton who's built this 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.560 incredible mic which David Crosby as well uses, and Dave 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.399 Crosby's engineer was a guy that I knew, so I 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.880 quizzed him about mikes and he said, throughout your name, 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:46.760 throughout you annoymans, get this one. So I've got this 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.560 amazing mic that just makes my voice sound really sweet. 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.000 I've built a booth in my studio all on wheels 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.439 where I sing in. So i have a big open 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.399 space barn here. I'm speaking to you from one side 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.600 of the barn, and I'd say it's about a thousand 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:08.640 square feet and it's all open. But I've got these 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.760 things called clouds, which you know, basically give you acoustic 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.119 treatment over where the monitors are and everything. I use 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:22.160 Miller and Cries or monitors. I use Crane Song, which 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.640 is Dave Hill who created the Summit brand, and then 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.400 Crane's song. I use his mike PRIs which are fantastic. 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:34.240 And I've got a lot of expensive equipment, um incredible 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:39.720 electrostatic headphones and these these Planar Dan Clark Audio. I'll 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:45.200 give him a plug from California. And you know, I've 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.640 got all the toys, Tina Turner's old Newhiman microphone and 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.040 some beautiful A kg s. I've got all the toys 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.640 and I can basically, you know, start a project by 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.720 myself and not bother to call anybody, which is great 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.840 and that's what I love. Okay, So you have a 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:04.360 new record, Northern Songs, which are covers of Beatle records. 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:09.040 Did you play all the instruments, do everything yourself? Yeah? Everything? 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:11.440 So how did you do it? I mean with the Beatles, 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.960 I always imagined how I would treat those songs, being 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.000 very cheeky, you know. So it's a kind of it's 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.399 an interpretation first off. So you know when people hear it, 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.520 they won't hear direct covers, you know, they'll hear um 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.720 leo leo phid versions, you know. So we've changed the 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.520 beats and we've changed the field and all sorts of 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.080 things like that. So that's the first point. So I 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.840 heard these songs in my head, and I hear things 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.359 in my head sometimes from dreams as well. I've write 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.199 songs in dreams. And then I just I mean, I 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:48.680 have seven studio here, let's say, because basically I've designed 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.840 it so that if it's the winter, you can instantly 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.240 turn the it's it's hot here in five minutes. Big 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.679 radiator hydroponic system in here. Great air conditioning for the summer. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:01.440 So I'll get up in the middle of the night, 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.840 straight from a dream or straight from some imagination, run 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.560 and immediately come in and just start working on something. 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:11.840 The fact that I'm not using another studio really helps 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.479 because everything is ready to go all the time. So 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.960 wherever you were last into a song, say working on 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:20.919 the base, if you leave it alone and you go 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:23.159 away for a few hours, you can come back and 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.919 just carry on. And I just hear all the lines 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:31.240 in my head. I've I can dissect all the parts 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.439 of a song in my memory and just work on 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.919 them and put it all together. Um, I've just got this, 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.200 found this ability. And I suppose the dyslexia has helped 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:45.159 in a way because I'm able to kind of really 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.480 dig into my imagination or my mind and and use 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:53.399 that for all my work. You know. So I start 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:55.920 with a basic template. I'll put down a drum beat 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.400 a keyboard. Go. Okay, just to be clear, you said earlier, 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:02.840 because you're slexic, you couldn't play the drums. So these 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:06.119 are electronic drums you're putting on the record. Everything is 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:10.280 played from a keyboard into the computer. So every note 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.119 relates to a keyboard. I don't really use pads. Some 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.960 people use pads, you know for drums and everything. I know, 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:18.679 I don't do that, and I tend to cut and 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.679 paste a lot of stuff, so I tend to I 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:27.000 have a vast sampler library, you know. My my, my, 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.840 my computer is relying on about eight terror bytes of memory, 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:35.480 slaving to it from various things and from various other 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:40.879 outboard uh memory units, you know. So I've got all 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.960 these samples, and somehow my head always manages to find 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:48.080 the right sounds and the right um, the right grooves 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.119 as it were, you know, on the drums, to to 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:52.359 give me the field. So I'll use lots of different 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:55.360 elements to get there. Sometimes some loops as well, so 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:57.520 I mean get back on the record. Is just the 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.240 drum loop that I found from some guys that work 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.000 with in Denmark, and he gave me a CD of 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:05.679 all of his drums, and bang, I'll put it all 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.720 together from there. Um just added some symbols in the 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.720 right places, you know. But I just love that feeling 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.919 of control. You know, you can do things yourself. It 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:24.760 is possible. You start off with the drums, told us 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:26.600 how you built the track from there. Yeah, build a 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:31.040 track basically, put down a keyboard. It's it's it can 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:33.280 be a tiss in process because you're writing a song 0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:38.520 at the same time. So I'm I'm writing lyrics at 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:43.040 that moment um and and you know, working on a 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:48.879 vocal line. Um, I don't know, it's it's it's just 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.320 it just comes, and it comes fairly easily. I have 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:56.040 to say, it's hard to describe the process. I'm supposed 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.240 to do something soon for I think it's Mixed magazine actually, 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:01.840 um where they're going to look at my studio and 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:04.040 the way that I work, and and they said, they 0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:06.280 don't know anybody who works like me. I mean maybe 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.240 Todd Rundgren did when he was doing his a cappella 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.240 record and a few things like that, but they don't 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:14.960 know anybody. Stevie Wonder of course does everything himself, and 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.640 Prince did as well. But at the same time, Prince 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:20.200 would bring in musicians to work with an engineers, he 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.800 would always have around. I have nobody. So I think 0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.480 what I'm doing is pretty unique, you know. Okay, how 0:24:26.520 --> 0:24:29.720 about acoustic instruments. Do you play guitar? Do you play 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:33.000 all these other No? But they're all available as samples now, 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.960 you know, I mean wonderful program called Native Instruments. UM. 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.399 Just to name one of them. They can give you 0:24:39.440 --> 0:24:42.880 strummed guitars. So basically you can get a guitar which 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:46.440 will go ding ding ding ding ding. Now, you might 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:48.800 not like one of those beats, so immediately you go 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.760 onto the screen and cut that up and then get 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:53.439 it to work in the way that you want it 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.399 to work. I mean, when I'm working, I often start 0:24:56.440 --> 0:24:58.960 off a song. I'll be completely in the wrong key, 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.159 so I'll have to move everything, so it becomes an 0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:06.800 extraneous process, you know. Um, But that's that's okay. I 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.639 mean anything to get there. And I gotta tell you, 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.520 I mean Northern Songs. It's the second album that I've 0:25:12.560 --> 0:25:15.479 made like this. So I made an album called Selfie, UM, 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:17.199 and I called it Selfie because I was doing it 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:22.120 all myself. UM and I that came out a couple 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:25.320 of years ago or so. UM. And they can be 0:25:25.359 --> 0:25:27.560 a long process. I mean, I don't care how long 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:32.359 it takes. The Beatles projects started ten years ago, so um. 0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:35.439 And I have an engineer, an amazing engineer that I 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:38.920 use for mixing and and also, you know we he 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:42.960 does the market mastering as well. He's called John Hudson 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:45.640 and he used to be an Olympic Studios who ran 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:50.200 Olympic Studios, a very famous studio in London. And he's 0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:53.479 the guy who recorded that brought all the Bryan Adams songs. 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:58.640 You know, um he recorded Tina Turner, he recorded He's 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:00.840 got Grammys for Tina turn What's love got to do 0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:03.480 with it? All those tracks? We don't need another hero. 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:06.760 John is probably one of the best mixing engineers in 0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:14.080 the world and he started mixing me way back in UM. 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:16.600 And you know, when I was working with this guy 0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.199 Alan Tani, we did more than I can say, and 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:23.600 Richard Road and a few other songs, and John was 0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:25.640 the mixing engineer and I always got on well with John. 0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:28.440 And one day I moved in here to as I say, 0:26:28.480 --> 0:26:30.800 two thousand and five, and in two thousand and seven 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:32.920 I got a call out of the blue. Hey, it's 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:36.080 John no Going, what what are you doing? And I 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.399 noticed it was an Australian number, and of course his 0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.120 wife is Australian. He said, well, I packed up the studio, 0:26:41.240 --> 0:26:42.880 I got out of there, got fed up with it. 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:47.119 There are a few complications. I'm here in Australia, so 0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:49.560 I said great. He said, look, I'm looking for a 0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:52.080 studio to work in. I said, well, I know there's 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:54.119 a studio here called three or one Studios, which is 0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:56.720 linked with Abbey Road. It's my studio down here, is 0:26:56.760 --> 0:27:01.119 quite beautifully equipped and everything. And On is the genius 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:03.560 with SSL as well, you know, always has been one 0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:07.919 of the best mixing engineers. I mean, I mean he 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:12.800 did he did the the the Live Aid song, you know, 0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:15.560 and all of that stuff. You know, so he's he's 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:18.280 the genius with SSL. So when I told them John 0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:20.080 Hudson was down, they said, oh, bring him down, bring 0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:23.040 him down, and they gave us a room in there, 0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:26.159 and with we only had computers in there and a 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:30.080 little mixing desk. But that's how the project started. Just 0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:32.280 literally he was off the plane but a jet lag 0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:34.760 and I played him these songs I was working on, 0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:39.320 these Beatles songs. I played him Strawberry Fills, Forever Um 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:44.720 and Norwegian would eleanor Rigby with the Michael Jackson kind 0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:48.800 of beat to it, and and he said, great, let's 0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:51.360 let's mix them. He mixed them straight away, and those 0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:53.560 are the mixes that are on the album there from 0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:56.240 ten years ago. Okay, let's talk about the Beatles. When 0:27:56.280 --> 0:28:00.000 did you first hear the Beatles. I think I think 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.720 give Us Love Me Do, which was the first really 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:06.680 real proper single that they made, and I was at school, 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:12.160 I must have been about fifteen sixteen something like that, 0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:16.000 and this song came over, and I've got to say 0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:19.040 I thought it was pretty cool because, um, I like 0:28:19.160 --> 0:28:23.600 the way that the guy John Lennon was I'm just 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.520 checking the time I had thirty two minutes. Um, I 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:30.040 liked the way that the guy it was playing harmonica 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:33.080 because I was playing harmonica at the time and I 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:36.080 was playing, you know, I was just learning the harmonica, 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:39.880 and hey, this guy with the Beatles was playing the harmonica. 0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:42.520 That's pretty cool. So that's what made me listen to it. 0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:45.320 I mean, I was much more into Buddy Holly and 0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:49.400 Elvis and and blues music basically, and folk music, you know, 0:28:49.400 --> 0:28:52.600 Woody Guthrie and things like that. I hadn't quite discovered 0:28:52.600 --> 0:28:55.120 Bob Dylan yet, which was going to be the big 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.760 one for me, but but yeah, I was. I was intrigued. 0:28:59.000 --> 0:29:01.920 I loved Lonnie Donnie Gun and you know, and skiffle 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:05.680 and and pure music, you know, Sunny Terry and Brandon McGee, 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:08.200 all that stuff, and here comes this guy making this 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:11.640 pop song but he's playing a harmonica, so it's pretty cool. 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:13.560 I think that was the first time I noticed them. 0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:17.320 So what was it like experiencing the Beatles in the UK? 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:21.840 We know ed Sullivan Beatlemania and the United States. What 0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:23.600 was it like in the UK? Well, I think that 0:29:23.640 --> 0:29:26.800 we were watching them develop, you know, and that was 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:30.960 what's interesting because they were based here and you see 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:33.880 them on the streets. I mean. I used to work 0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:37.360 in the design studio when I was about eighteen and 0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:40.560 left art school. Um and I was in a design 0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:44.640 studio in London and John Lennon used to visit Yoko 0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:47.160 ownA who had an apartment on the top. That was 0:29:47.200 --> 0:29:50.480 when they were first dating. Um Well, she was in 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:54.520 the apartment with her then boyfriend, so John would come 0:29:54.560 --> 0:29:59.920 and visit. Now, the the art gallery guy that Yoko 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:03.440 was with didn't like anybody smoking upstairs. John smoked like 0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:06.360 a chimney, so he had to smoke down in the 0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:09.680 yard where I had to smoke as well. Because basically 0:30:09.920 --> 0:30:11.840 we had a lot of chemicals in the in the 0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:16.160 art room, and you know, you couldn't smoke there. So 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:17.800 I would go down to the backyard and there's this 0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:19.880 guy was turned up with the white suit and I 0:30:19.960 --> 0:30:23.320 knew who he was, um, but I couldn't really sort 0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:25.720 of say hey, Mr lenn and I just couldn't bring 0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:27.800 myself to Oh I'm a big fan, you know, I 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:29.680 couldn't bring myself to do that. So I just said, 0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:32.840 had I mate? And uh? And he said hello, mate, back, 0:30:32.920 --> 0:30:35.600 you know, and we shared Siggi's together, and sometimes he'd 0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:38.200 roll a joint and with our smoker joint together, and 0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:42.240 you know, we were smoking companions and it's really kind 0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:45.080 of funny because you know, you know, he said, what's 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:47.600 your name? I said Jerry, And I said, yeah, what's yours? Oh, 0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:50.000 John John? And I think he kind of got a 0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:52.440 kick out of the fact that I wasn't John Lennon 0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:55.440 and him or beatling him, you know. So so we 0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:57.680 we became hey, how are you today? Yeah, good mate? 0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:01.239 What's up to? I'm just visiting Yoka up stairs. You know, 0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:03.840 I'll be here for a few hours anyway, you know, 0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:06.240 tell me what you're working on today. I'm doing a 0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:09.480 cover for this band, you know, and he said yeah, 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:11.360 he said, I know a bit about music, you know, 0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:15.880 and we'd we'd play this kind of decoy game where 0:31:15.960 --> 0:31:19.000 you know, we just wouldn't admit who he was, which 0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:24.360 was very cool. Years later, Okay, spin years forward, I'm 0:31:24.400 --> 0:31:29.240 making my first album, silver Bird, Um and Adam Faith 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:33.200 who's managing me and producing it with David Courtney, my 0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:37.640 co writer as well, but co producer with Adam. They 0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:40.360 decide that we've got to go to Apple Studios. I mean, 0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:43.160 Adam is a complete beat or nut, you know, so 0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:46.000 we've got to go to not Abbey Road, sorry, so 0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:50.240 to Savile Row the Beatles, the Apple Studios to master 0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:53.280 the record. And there's this great guy there called Porky Peckham, 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:57.120 George Peckham, who's probably one of the great mastering engineers. 0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:58.960 He was used to He's known as Porky and he 0:31:59.360 --> 0:32:02.120 you'd always his ascetates back. I've got a couple of them, 0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:05.960 and he'd always scratched Porky into that, you know, or 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:09.120 else a pig sign so that, you know, very collectible 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:13.720 items now they go from thousands hundreds of thousands. But anyway, Um, 0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:17.080 we went down there to see to see George and 0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:20.120 you know, get on with the master and you know. 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:21.880 And I was allowed to come along that day to 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:24.480 have a listen in. And I walked through the door 0:32:24.520 --> 0:32:26.720 and this burly guy kind of well I thought he 0:32:26.800 --> 0:32:29.320 was burly anyway, sort of pushes me out the way 0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:32.560 as he's coming, rushing out the door, and then turns 0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:35.360 around and apologize and said, I'm sorry, man coming just 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:37.720 a clash of two people coming in the same door. 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:40.600 And it's Lennon and he told me and said, oh 0:32:40.640 --> 0:32:43.960 my god, it's you. He said it's my smoking buddy. 0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:47.280 And I said, yeah, Leo and he said, yeah, I 0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:49.600 know you're. Leo says, said you're you're down in the 0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:52.720 cutting room today he said, He said, I'm so glad 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.280 things happened to you. He said, can we finally can 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:57.280 we finally face up? He said, I'm a beatle, you know. 0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:02.959 I said I know. And he said, good to see you. Man. 0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:06.040 He gave me a big hug and went on his way. 0:33:07.160 --> 0:33:09.280 People rushing him out the door and come on, John, 0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:12.440 come on, and he's saying shut up and turning around 0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:14.800 to give me a hug. It was quite sweet. You 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.200 talk about how influential Bob Dylan was to you told 0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:20.560 us that, Yeah, I think I think. You know, I 0:33:20.640 --> 0:33:24.680 had a cousin, an older cousin. Um, I'd never experienced 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:28.640 Bob Dylan before, but I loved Woody Guthrie and you know, uh, 0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:33.320 all these people that you know, Bob loved, you know, 0:33:33.560 --> 0:33:38.600 the folk musicians. Um, I love what they were all doing, 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:41.680 rambling Jack Elliott, I'm I'm remembering all people like that 0:33:41.720 --> 0:33:45.640 who were in Dylan's Psyche phil Oaks. You know, I 0:33:45.680 --> 0:33:48.760 love what they were doing separately. And then my cousin, 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.840 my older cousin, went to stay with him in the Midlands, 0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:55.760 in England, and he pulled out two records and he said, 0:33:56.280 --> 0:33:58.880 because he had a record player and he was collecting stuff, 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:02.400 and I'd heard Bill Hailey and Elvis Presley with him, 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:04.480 you know, okay that was great, but I could hear 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:07.200 them anyway on the radio. And he he just bought 0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.480 this record and it was Bob Dylan, the first Bob 0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:13.880 Dylan record. So this is three well, I think sixty 0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:16.080 two was the first one in America that was mostly 0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:19.680 cover sixty two. Yeah, yeah, no, that's it's sixty two. 0:34:19.960 --> 0:34:23.520 And so here's this record and I'm about fifteen sixteen 0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:28.560 and something like that, maybe even younger. And he had 0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:31.240 that record and he put it on and the voice 0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:35.080 and the whole kind of I don't know almost the 0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:37.160 anarchy of the whole thing. I mean, the guy couldn't 0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:41.200 really sing great, but the voice was obviously put only 0:34:41.280 --> 0:34:44.800 trying to sound like an old guy of sixty. Um. 0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:48.359 But there's something gripping about it. And the songs, I mean, 0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.640 fixing to die, Please see that my grave is kept clean, 0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:56.000 the House of the Rising Sun. The songs were amazing, 0:34:56.440 --> 0:35:00.960 and his songs as well, about you know about Woody Guthrie. UM. 0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:03.880 So this this record just kind of stayed with me, 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:05.400 and I asked him if I could borrow it, and 0:35:05.400 --> 0:35:07.560 he let me borrow it, and I take it back 0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:10.839 and play it on Dad's radiogram, you know, those old 0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:14.160 kind of systems that we had, and and listen to 0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:17.240 it and listen to it, and it got into my bloodstream. 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:19.960 And then when the second record came out, which was 0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:23.279 Free Wheeling, I was straight to the record store, you know, 0:35:23.400 --> 0:35:26.760 using all my pocket money, all the money that I 0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:32.120 I gained by getting paid for delivering church leaflets from 0:35:32.120 --> 0:35:34.400 from the church, all that sort of stuff. You know, 0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:38.399 I I um, I went and put all my hard 0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:42.359 earned into buying that record. And it wasn't a disappointment. 0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:45.200 He was even better because now he's writing more songs, 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:47.680 and or at least that you know, he's putting more 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:49.799 of his own songs on there, and he's got a 0:35:49.840 --> 0:35:52.440 story to tell, and he's writting about Hattie Carroll and 0:35:52.840 --> 0:35:56.400 people like that, and you know there's the protest songs. 0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:00.800 Times were changing blind in the wind Man. This next 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:03.560 series of records that I had, every single one, brought 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:06.960 them all on the first day. I was absolutely totally 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:09.200 gluten and I thought, that's the man I want to be, 0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:12.279 you know, when I finally grow up, that's who I'm 0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:13.839 going to be. I'm going to get on the road. 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:18.239 Through him. I found Jack, Carol Akin and Alan Ginsberg 0:36:18.360 --> 0:36:25.160 and you know all these great writers Steinberg, Steinbeck, you know, 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:28.319 John Steinbeck and Cannery Row. You know you're reading all 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:33.480 these things, Albert Camu, the outsiders. You know. I don't know, 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:35.880 I I just it opened up a whole world for me. 0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:38.440 It opened up the world as well. That told me 0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:43.240 that the spoken word, the poetry could be great as music. 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:46.040 You know, That's what it opened up for me. And 0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:48.520 and I was trying to be a poet at the time, 0:36:48.719 --> 0:36:52.560 you know, I was always writing down, you know, everything 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:54.520 that I thought of and trying to kind of wax 0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:59.600 lyrical into these lines and on the page. And suddenly, 0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:03.440 I don't know, some time later on, I think maybe 0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:06.959 even when I was first working with David Courtney, come 0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:13.520 right there. I would look at these old old lyric books, 0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:17.080 these old poetry books, and David would say, hey, I've 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:20.160 got an idea for a tune, you know, and and 0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:23.880 he'd be playing away, you know, dump dumped, the dump dumped, 0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:26.080 and don't don't don't on a piano, and I go, 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:30.040 I'm a one man band, you know, so and that 0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:32.360 would come straight off the lyric sheet, you know, or 0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:36.080 the poetry sheet. So I was using what I've written 0:37:36.560 --> 0:37:40.920 between twelve and sixteen. That's was the first album that 0:37:41.080 --> 0:37:44.240 was all of my poetry from those days, the basis 0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:47.160 of those songs, the basis of the lyrics. Let's go 0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:49.600 back to the beginning. Where did you grow up? Shore 0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:54.040 on My Sea a little town between Worthing and Brighton 0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:57.920 in Sussex, right on the English Channel, fifty miles south 0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:01.320 of London. Yeah, on the coast. How far from Brighton? 0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:04.839 It was in between, I say, about seven miles from 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:08.720 Brighton and about six miles from Worthy. The whole Branton 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:12.800 Mods and Rockers thing. Was that amplified in the media 0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:15.319 or was that real and something you were aware of? Oh? 0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:20.560 That was truly real? Yeah, yeah, I mean we England 0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:24.000 basically had had of you know, after the war, which 0:38:24.040 --> 0:38:28.640 costs England all its economy, you know, because it puts 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.080 so much into it. Even though your Yanks came over 0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:33.400 and helped us out, we still had to pay for 0:38:33.560 --> 0:38:36.359 so much ourselves. So I mean I grew up when 0:38:36.360 --> 0:38:39.520 when I was fourteen years old, I still had a 0:38:39.600 --> 0:38:42.800 ration car really, so there was still rationing of some things. 0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:46.520 You know. I grew up without sugar. I've never had 0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:48.680 very much for sweet tooth, so I think I'm getting 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:51.560 one hour's I'm getting older. But we didn't have candy 0:38:51.600 --> 0:38:54.000 bars and things like that, you know, so it was 0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:59.920 all very basic, rough stuff, and our our politics became 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:04.600 very safe, you know, very authoritarian. This is where the 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:09.319 Conservative Party came in um and basically you know, trying 0:39:09.360 --> 0:39:13.920 to tell everybody we're so lucky to be free from war. Uh, 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:16.920 that we must kind of be prepared to do it hard. 0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:21.160 So you've got a youth that came up in the 0:39:22.160 --> 0:39:25.680 in the fifties, i'd say, and then into the sixties 0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:30.000 that was very disgruntled. You know. They didn't understand why 0:39:30.320 --> 0:39:33.839 when all the American kids had drive ins and and 0:39:34.040 --> 0:39:38.319 rock music and and you know, girls were allowed to 0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:41.800 wear bikinis, we didn't have that, you know, so they 0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:45.200 they kind of, I don't know, they felt that they 0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:48.440 were left out, you know. I mean when Rock around 0:39:48.440 --> 0:39:51.520 the Clock with Bill Haley came out in England, it 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:55.319 was this phenomenon, you know that all the kids would 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.359 go to the cinema to watch it. Now, wow, can 0:39:58.400 --> 0:40:01.640 they really get away with that? You know, so everybody's 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:04.920 dancing and jiving. Nobody would dance and jive in a 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:07.239 in a concert or anything in England. You know. It 0:40:07.320 --> 0:40:10.920 took a little while and visits by Bill Halian, Eddie 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:14.759 Cochrane and gene of Vincent before that happened. Um, and 0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.000 that was into the sixties, you know, fifties, the fifties, 0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:22.000 none of that happened. So the early sixties descent in 0:40:22.080 --> 0:40:26.000 the youth was growing in England and I suppose the 0:40:26.040 --> 0:40:27.920 Mods grew out of that. I mean I was on 0:40:28.000 --> 0:40:32.920 mod um at school. Uh, and then the slightly older 0:40:32.920 --> 0:40:35.120 guys would be the Rockers. They had all the motorbikes, 0:40:35.160 --> 0:40:37.680 you know, the Mods took on the scooters just to 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:42.600 be different than than the rockers. And in Brighton, you know, 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:46.520 as the Mods came into being bands like the Small Faces, 0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:51.680 the Kinks, um, you know, them playing the music that 0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:57.720 the Mods liked, Um, the the there came a clash 0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:02.640 of culture with use. You know. The rockers were teddy boys, 0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:07.920 you know. They they kind of like live life, loud 0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:12.480 and rough and very leathery, and the Mods were kind 0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:16.920 of really stylish and bespoke, a little quieter spoken. I mean, 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:20.000 later we got skin heads out of Mods, but that's 0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:22.120 a kind of different thing because that kind of almost 0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:25.040 leads you to punk. But basically us Mods, I mean 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:28.480 we went to great tailors and had fabulous looking suits, 0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:33.239 you know, in silky material and really cool shoes. We 0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:37.359 wanted to look clean and bespoke, you know, rather than 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:39.760 the rockers who looked like they were covered in oil 0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:43.120 from their motorbikes. So you had this clash going on, 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:45.360 and it all happened in Brighton, and the who I 0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.640 suppose was the big mod band that I left out there, 0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:51.799 and and and the who are kind of you know 0:41:51.880 --> 0:41:55.240 with my talk about my generation describes it all. Really, 0:41:55.280 --> 0:41:57.400 you know. I hope I die before I get old. 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:00.680 Did you have a scooter? No? No, I couldn't have 0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:02.640 had one. I mean we had no money. That was 0:42:02.680 --> 0:42:16.160 for rich mods. I had a bicycle. You're singing in church? Yeah, 0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:19.759 Yet you want to be a fine artist. How do 0:42:19.800 --> 0:42:23.960 you ultimately get into the music business? Happened really by accident. 0:42:24.000 --> 0:42:27.320 I had a pretty good career as a graphic designer, 0:42:27.360 --> 0:42:33.200 commercial artist, illustrator, even designed type typography. UM. I had 0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:36.239 a pretty good career. I left art school after only 0:42:36.280 --> 0:42:39.640 one year of a two year course. UM. I was 0:42:39.719 --> 0:42:43.400 supposed to Uh, I was supposed to do longer and 0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:51.239 I didn't, um I I. Um yeah. I cracked out 0:42:51.239 --> 0:42:54.319 of that and got a job straight away. And all 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:58.120 of my friends at art school, UM were They was 0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:01.120 still working around a very boring what I thought were 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:05.840 very boring graphics scores. Uh. And I had a job amazing. 0:43:07.000 --> 0:43:09.760 I'll probably digress for a moment here, because I've worked 0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:12.600 in a studio in Brighton. I had this gorgeous girl 0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:15.799 that I fancied like mad in the studio who came 0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:20.440 from Detroit and one day said her American boyfriend was 0:43:20.520 --> 0:43:24.640 coming in to town. So she said, I'm going to 0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:26.759 London and I said, what can I come with you? 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:29.000 And she said, yeah, I was looking for some companies, 0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:31.520 so I'm thinking I'm in here. Of course I wasn't. 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:36.560 So we went up to the Strand Palace Hotel um 0:43:36.640 --> 0:43:41.360 in Covent Garden and a big wooly head guy, tall 0:43:41.360 --> 0:43:45.560 wooly head guy opened the door and immediately hustled her 0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:48.319 into bedroom. I just sat on the sofa, I got 0:43:48.360 --> 0:43:52.080 my harmonica out and started playing. And he stopped what 0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:53.880 he was doing and rushed into the room, picked up 0:43:53.880 --> 0:43:56.360 a guitar and started playing with me. And that was 0:43:56.440 --> 0:44:02.960 Jimi Hendrix, who's just a little bit. What was Jimmy 0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:06.840 Hendrix's girlfriend doing working with you in the art studio, 0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:09.319 I don't know. She'd kind of come on some bad 0:44:09.360 --> 0:44:11.720 times with the family and decided to move to England 0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:15.160 and she was working very studios. She was pretty good, 0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:18.040 good designer, good good illustrator as well, and we did 0:44:18.040 --> 0:44:20.560 a couple of projects together, so you know, we got 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:23.680 on very well, and she just said, yeah, I used 0:44:23.719 --> 0:44:25.040 to go with this guy as a rock as a 0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:27.680 rock guitarist, but he had no money, so I gave up, 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:30.279 you know. But he was a good lover, so you know, 0:44:30.400 --> 0:44:32.720 that was that was why she wanted to see him again. 0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:36.680 And and so anyway, so me and James Marshall Hendrix 0:44:36.719 --> 0:44:39.759 as he announced himself to me, or James Marshall, I 0:44:39.760 --> 0:44:42.919 think he just called himself. Um, I didn't know who 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:45.120 he was, but we were we were playing. He's a 0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:48.640 really good guitarists, great blues field and you know, and 0:44:49.120 --> 0:44:51.239 we just play some blues together and he reckoned. I 0:44:51.280 --> 0:44:54.640 could play the harmonica pretty good as well. And you know, 0:44:54.920 --> 0:44:57.880 so we jammed away while she sat frustratedly sat by 0:44:57.920 --> 0:45:00.080 the door until she dragged him back in the in 0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:05.560 the bedroom. And then we we went back down to 0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:08.880 to to Brighton, where we worked and where I was 0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:11.680 living at the time, and she said cheerio, and I 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:17.640 didn't even get a kiss. And and and about four 0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:20.440 weeks later, because he told me he'd come into London 0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:22.759 on the invite to make a record by this guy 0:45:22.840 --> 0:45:24.680 who was the bass player of the Animals who have 0:45:25.160 --> 0:45:27.320 seen him play and all that, you know the story, 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.360 and so he made this record and I went to 0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:33.760 my favorite records store in the in the in Brighton, 0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:36.360 in the this area called the Lanes where she's just 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:40.040 walking streets and record shop called Fine Records. I remember 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:42.080 it so well because that's where I picked up most 0:45:42.120 --> 0:45:46.319 of my material, you know. Um. I and there's this 0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:49.680 massive poster on the on the on the wall, and 0:45:50.200 --> 0:45:53.640 you know, and the record cover. I'm going, that's that guy, 0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:57.399 and there he is, Jimi Hendrix. And about a week later, 0:45:57.600 --> 0:46:00.080 I'm in London and I go with some friends to 0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:03.279 a club called the Speakeasy because i've I've just done 0:46:03.280 --> 0:46:07.040 the record cover for a group called Humble Pie, which 0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:14.240 was Peter Frampton and and uh Steve Marriott from Faces 0:46:14.440 --> 0:46:18.000 from the Small Faces and I think it was Greg Ridley, 0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:20.359 the bass player. When I've done the you know, did 0:46:20.360 --> 0:46:23.319 the cover and the photos of the cover, I kind 0:46:23.320 --> 0:46:26.520 of got chatting to him and he gave me his 0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:29.160 his we didn't have mobiles in those days, his home number, 0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:30.880 and I phoned him and he said, oh, if you 0:46:30.880 --> 0:46:33.920 in London, you know, let's hook up. And and then 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:36.200 he said to me said he you know, we all 0:46:36.200 --> 0:46:38.719 go into the speakeasy. Do you want to come? And 0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:40.879 so I said, yeah, yeah. So I went down there 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:44.960 and walking onto the stage, there's all these guitarists, They're 0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:47.200 all the major guitarists are in the room at the time, 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:49.759 I'm going, wow, you know, that's Sarah Clapton over there, 0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:53.160 that's Jeff Beck, and that's Steve how from Yes and 0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:56.200 all these guys are there, you know, and I'm you know, 0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:59.839 just constract. I think it's Harry Nilson who was doing 0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:05.640 the Big U. But halfway through Harry's set, on walks 0:47:05.719 --> 0:47:09.799 Jimmy and I'm in the front row, you know, and 0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:12.040 I'm feeling kind of embarrassed. And I look up at 0:47:12.080 --> 0:47:14.080 him and he recognized me, and he jumped off the 0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:16.239 stage and gave me a hug. And all these guys, 0:47:16.239 --> 0:47:20.399 I look at me, who's he And I just say, yeah, 0:47:20.440 --> 0:47:23.520 I know him, Yeah, yeah. I remember Jeff Beck sidling 0:47:23.560 --> 0:47:24.520 up to me and said, hey, do you know And 0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:27.080 I told him the story. He said, you lucky bastard, 0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:31.520 and that was it. You know. There you go, being 0:47:31.520 --> 0:47:33.920 in the right place at the right time. Sorry, I 0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:38.600 digressed and digressions digressions of the space of life. Don't 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.560 worry about it. I'm a famous digressor. You played the 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:45.200 Harmonic with Jimmy Hendrix. Ya. How do you ultimately start 0:47:45.239 --> 0:47:49.239 a music career? I was, as I say, doing commercial art. 0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:52.560 I was in London. Um, I took on a studio 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:55.799 in in Hammersmith and and you know, we rented it 0:47:56.160 --> 0:48:00.000 big studio space, and I had a lot of artist friends, 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:03.920 mostly illustrators. You know. I should say that I did 0:48:03.960 --> 0:48:09.560 some record covers in this time. I did uh, Bob 0:48:09.600 --> 0:48:14.560 Marley covers, clubs, scar covers, yeah again for Humble Pie 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:16.400 and people like that. You know, a lot of Ireland 0:48:16.400 --> 0:48:19.640 Records traffic a lot of those bands at the time, 0:48:19.680 --> 0:48:21.919 you know, so I kind of and every now and then, 0:48:22.239 --> 0:48:25.360 like with Greg, I'd get to meet some of the 0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:27.680 guys in the band, you know. So, so I was 0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:31.279 kind of close to that. But anyway, I booked this. 0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:33.480 I had this huge studio and I had a lot 0:48:33.520 --> 0:48:37.040 of artists who were working with me. And I wasn't 0:48:37.120 --> 0:48:39.560 very good at collecting money. I've never been a good 0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:41.920 businessman in my whole life, which comes to another part 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:46.319 of the story later. But uh, and I ran out 0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:48.440 of money and I couldn't pay for the studio and 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:50.520 I couldn't pay the rent, and it was up to 0:48:50.600 --> 0:48:53.960 me to do that. So I don't know, I just 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:56.400 kind of I left the keys on the doorset one 0:48:56.480 --> 0:49:00.040 day and I just I left. I left it of 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:02.279 the guys left them a long note saying, you know, 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:04.080 if you really want to carry on with this place, 0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:07.359 you've got to come up with the rent, and up 0:49:07.360 --> 0:49:10.280 to you. You know. I think that they they caved 0:49:10.320 --> 0:49:12.480 in and didn't bother when they found out how much 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:15.399 the rent was, you know, because they've been all there 0:49:15.480 --> 0:49:17.480 on the cheap. They were just paying me, you know, 0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:19.120 a smidge in to be in there. And I was 0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:21.600 just gladly giving them a space because it was a 0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:23.640 creative hub. And I got work out of it as well, 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.440 you know, some work. But as it was drying up, 0:49:26.719 --> 0:49:29.600 you know, there was no option and no money, so 0:49:30.000 --> 0:49:32.720 I had to leave and I packed up my flat. 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:35.600 I went back to my hometown. I had some friends 0:49:35.640 --> 0:49:39.480 who had a houseboat. They lived on a houseboat um 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:42.680 on the River Raida, the river that went through Shoreham 0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:46.000 and just near the sea the mouth of the river. 0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:48.800 This is lovely houseboat. And I stayed on the houseboat 0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:52.800 for a year. I had a nervous breakdown. Really I 0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:56.880 I couldn't draw and paint any longer. My graphic abilities 0:49:57.000 --> 0:50:01.120 just passed me by. But luckily, at the same time 0:50:01.160 --> 0:50:05.960 as He's marvelous cusps in one's life happened a bunch 0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:08.000 of friends came to see me on the houseboat. One 0:50:08.040 --> 0:50:09.560 of them we lived on a houseboat a little bit 0:50:09.560 --> 0:50:12.560 further way of the mate of mind from school, and 0:50:12.560 --> 0:50:16.600 he was now long haired and planning guitar, and so 0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:18.960 he said, oh, I've got a blues group. I said, oh, 0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:22.120 that's great. I play harmonica, and so he said, yeah, well, 0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:24.799 why don't get together for a jam next week, you know? 0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:28.759 So we did and we started a band immediately, and 0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:31.200 because I had its loud voice, I was the singer. 0:50:32.480 --> 0:50:35.160 And we went from band to band to band to band, 0:50:35.239 --> 0:50:38.960 and eventually a guitarist who I really liked working with, 0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:43.839 who was top notch in the local musicians um, who 0:50:43.880 --> 0:50:47.080 also wrote songs, came and lived on the houseboat with me. 0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:50.160 He was he had the next the next room on 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:53.440 the boat, big old boat it was, and we started 0:50:53.440 --> 0:50:56.200 writing songs together and we decided to go. We had 0:50:56.200 --> 0:50:58.280 a band and we decided to go to an audition, 0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:01.719 and we went to the audition. It was for the 0:51:01.920 --> 0:51:04.120 you'd have heard of the Melody Maker of course in England, 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:06.840 the famous newspaper. So they had a battle of the 0:51:06.920 --> 0:51:09.440 bands going on. So they did it as areas and 0:51:10.440 --> 0:51:14.759 so southwest. I think we were called that area, which 0:51:14.800 --> 0:51:19.000 was Kent and Surrey and Sussex um and we won. 0:51:19.480 --> 0:51:23.680 We won our heat. But the thing was so badly 0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:27.400 organized that in the end I think that they they 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:29.960 press gained a couple of bands from London and forgot 0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:33.239 about our heat that winners, you know, and we got 0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:34.960 to have pushed out. We never even went to the 0:51:35.480 --> 0:51:39.600 final show. So frustrated with that, we saw another ad. 0:51:40.160 --> 0:51:44.200 We saw an advertisement um in the local paper, the 0:51:44.239 --> 0:51:52.560 Evening Arcuts, and it was saying, you know bands, bands, acts, artists, comedians, conjurers, whatever, 0:51:53.080 --> 0:51:55.480 you know, a new talent agency is starting. There will 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:58.680 be a big audition at the Pavilion Theater on Saturday 0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:00.920 that da da da da da dah. This is in. 0:52:02.719 --> 0:52:04.919 And we turned up at the audition and we went 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:07.040 on stage, probably the last people to go on. There 0:52:07.080 --> 0:52:11.040 were lots of bands, uh, no audience in the theater 0:52:11.719 --> 0:52:14.319 you know, just all the bands watching each other, and 0:52:14.400 --> 0:52:16.920 we went on last, and the guy was holding the 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:20.680 audition ran over and just said, you're it. And we 0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:23.279 sang a song I remember called Gypsy Dancer that me 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:28.720 and Max Chetwynd, the guitarists, wrote together, and he stopped 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:31.759 us halfway through and just said start that again. And 0:52:32.000 --> 0:52:33.920 we started again, and then he stopped us halfway through 0:52:33.920 --> 0:52:36.120 and he said start there again. And I think he 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:38.919 was checking that we could play it, you know, and 0:52:39.440 --> 0:52:41.640 he just turned around he said, I'm going to give 0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:44.920 you a job straight away. I want to manage you. 0:52:44.920 --> 0:52:48.200 Your voice is amazing, you know, And all of the 0:52:48.200 --> 0:52:50.160 other people just sidled out the room and it was 0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.719 left with us, and there we were, and Patches was 0:52:53.760 --> 0:52:58.440 the name of the band, and I don't know started 0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:01.280 getting talking to David's and he told me he didn't 0:53:01.280 --> 0:53:03.239 really want to manage a band. It was just his 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:06.440 dad's idea. You know. His dad was fairly wealthy, and 0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:09.759 his dad wanted him to do something legitimate. And he'd 0:53:09.760 --> 0:53:12.279 played drums before for this guy called Adam Faith. It 0:53:12.400 --> 0:53:15.759 was a pop singer. So one day he said, after 0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:18.520 we'd tried a few different avenues, and David and I 0:53:18.520 --> 0:53:21.719 had started writing songs together, me all based as I 0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:25.240 said before, on those old lyric books, those old poetry books, 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:28.120 you know, putting my lyrics in there. And he had 0:53:28.160 --> 0:53:31.560 these kind of beach boys kind of come Beatles kind 0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:36.320 of pop uh melodies that I would put my acerbic 0:53:36.400 --> 0:53:39.279 lyrics to, and and we had something. And I was 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:42.560 a ying and yang kind of thing. It was very interesting. 0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:49.320 There was these kind of very almost sad autobiographical lyrics 0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:54.160 going with these bright kind of um but very dramatic 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:58.239 kind of melodies. So we had something I think that 0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:01.520 was quite unique. It was a bit like I suppose 0:54:01.600 --> 0:54:05.080 Bernie Taupin and Elton John could be. Because again you're 0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:07.719 meeting I suppose I had some eloquence to me, and 0:54:07.800 --> 0:54:10.680 David was had this kind of pop musicality, you know, 0:54:11.719 --> 0:54:16.160 which is very much Elson and Bernie, you know. Um. Anyway, 0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:19.359 we went to see Adam and I thought he wasn't 0:54:19.440 --> 0:54:22.239 very interested. I was left to sit in the car 0:54:22.320 --> 0:54:25.160 while he and David pow world. And then he came 0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:26.839 running out to the car and he said, right, I've 0:54:26.880 --> 0:54:30.239 booked you in the studio tomorrow. That's it. Get the 0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:32.840 band together. So I went straight back, got all the 0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:35.399 guys together, said come on, we've got to get the van. 0:54:35.640 --> 0:54:37.720 Mike the drummer, had to take a day off work 0:54:38.239 --> 0:54:40.720 and get the van kind of filled up with petrol, 0:54:40.760 --> 0:54:42.520 which was quite a job in those days because we 0:54:42.560 --> 0:54:44.480 didn't have any money. Throw all the gear in the 0:54:44.480 --> 0:54:49.560 back of the van and straight up to uh, straight 0:54:49.640 --> 0:54:54.359 up to Olympic studios and yeah, and then we were 0:54:54.480 --> 0:54:57.520 making a record. You know, we're not knowing what we 0:54:57.560 --> 0:54:59.520 were doing. I think the drummer turned out to be 0:54:59.560 --> 0:55:03.880 pretty app And in the next room the Who were recording, 0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:07.600 and I don't think Daughtry was there or Towns was there, 0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:11.000 but Entwhistle and Who and Moon were there, and Adam 0:55:11.120 --> 0:55:14.920 called Mooney in during a break and he actually played 0:55:14.920 --> 0:55:18.759 the drums on that first single while So and Meet 0:55:18.840 --> 0:55:21.279 the drummer came in and listened to it. You know, 0:55:22.160 --> 0:55:24.640 Keith wasn't there, but he's listening to a Playbank going yeah, 0:55:24.680 --> 0:55:28.560 I did pretty well there. It was the same part, 0:55:28.640 --> 0:55:32.000 but it was much better played, you know. So um, 0:55:32.560 --> 0:55:35.399 I don't know, it's it's kind of it's funny when 0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:37.319 you look back at those times. We really didn't know 0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:40.600 what we were doing. I mean David and I. We 0:55:40.680 --> 0:55:43.200 sang a song on the B I sang a song 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:45.239 on the B side that we've both written together. The 0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:49.759 A side was David's song Living in America. I think 0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:54.560 the folks in America they got it good in America. 0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:58.920 Not my lyric, you know, but it was it was fun. 0:55:59.040 --> 0:56:02.760 You know, here we were suddenly you're looking at another 0:56:02.800 --> 0:56:08.360 career because Adam. You know, one of the powerful things 0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:12.080 about Adam was that if he said something was going 0:56:12.120 --> 0:56:15.360 to happen, he had the ability to make it happen. 0:56:16.239 --> 0:56:19.640 He had incredible contacts in the in the in the business, 0:56:20.440 --> 0:56:23.280 in the whole world of show business, and in the media. 0:56:23.400 --> 0:56:28.200 You know, he could just open doors. Remember once with him, 0:56:28.239 --> 0:56:31.520 just after Patches had been a single, Living in America 0:56:31.600 --> 0:56:35.600 had been released, we strode up to Radio one. Radio 0:56:35.640 --> 0:56:38.080 one was the big sort of you know, the big 0:56:38.320 --> 0:56:43.920 real McCoy BBC. Radio one was was the biggest broadcast broadcaster, 0:56:44.239 --> 0:56:46.719 biggest station. And on Sunday they used to read out 0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:49.759 the charts. Everybody would tune in the whole country. The 0:56:49.840 --> 0:56:53.840 audience ratings were off the wall, you know. So Alan 0:56:54.120 --> 0:56:58.200 Freeman is upstairs halfway through the charts, when Adam turns 0:56:58.280 --> 0:57:01.600 up with this young aick um and and his new 0:57:01.640 --> 0:57:05.160 album and his new single sorry and meets the job's 0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:07.080 worth at the door. We called him job's worth, it's 0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:09.040 more than my jobs will to let you in here, Mr. 0:57:11.000 --> 0:57:15.160 But but no they actually Adam faith and well, I'm 0:57:15.200 --> 0:57:17.520 going up to see Alan Freeman and said, well, of course, 0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:20.440 of course, go on up, so he knew where to go. 0:57:20.600 --> 0:57:23.200 We walked straight in the red lighters on on the 0:57:23.240 --> 0:57:25.960 door outside and his producer is kind of looking at 0:57:26.000 --> 0:57:29.600 us rather alarmed, but we breathe in and Adams says, 0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:31.440 take that rubbish off and put this on. This is 0:57:31.480 --> 0:57:37.520 your next and that was it. We get our first airing, 0:57:38.280 --> 0:57:42.480 you know, on on the Alan Freeman Show Sunday night 0:57:42.600 --> 0:57:46.440 with the biggest audience in England watching. Okay, that's relieve 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:50.120 the fantastic. But then the record stiff, the record still stiff. Yeah, 0:57:50.160 --> 0:57:54.320 I mean I think fifty copies. I think my mom 0:57:54.360 --> 0:57:58.880 brought twenty. Um, yeah, fifty copies were sold. I think fifty. 0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:05.120 It was on the Warner label, um, Warner Brothers label. Uh. 0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:07.480 But but Adam wasn't daunted. I mean, the whole thing 0:58:07.560 --> 0:58:10.120 was not happening, but he just said, let's go on 0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:14.480 and make the album. So he'd met Richard Branson, you know, 0:58:14.600 --> 0:58:18.560 the Virgin guy of course. Um, of course was just 0:58:18.720 --> 0:58:20.919 I mean Richard just had a record store in those 0:58:21.000 --> 0:58:23.960 days and a record label that he just started, and 0:58:24.000 --> 0:58:27.440 he bought this crazy studio, this manor house with a 0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:32.080 barn next to it in Oxfordshire called the Manor, and 0:58:33.440 --> 0:58:35.960 lots of people recording up there, you know, Van Morrison, 0:58:36.600 --> 0:58:41.000 the Grand Bond Organization. Uh. And he had an engineer, 0:58:41.040 --> 0:58:44.960 Tom Newman there who was working on a little project 0:58:45.240 --> 0:58:48.680 by this unknown guy called Mike Oldfield and it was 0:58:48.720 --> 0:58:51.400 she ended up being called Tubular Bells, and that was 0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:53.160 going on at the same time, and you know, Mike 0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.240 was in the studio when we weren't in the studio, 0:58:55.880 --> 0:58:59.040 and me and Patches were in the studio most days 0:58:59.160 --> 0:59:01.560 and then Michael take over and do the Witching Hour 0:59:01.640 --> 0:59:04.160 at night. We were all staying at the place. You know, 0:59:04.400 --> 0:59:08.160 Michael was very friendly. Um, I didn't really understand his record. 0:59:08.240 --> 0:59:11.920 It sounded very a bit silly to me at that stage, 0:59:12.360 --> 0:59:14.560 but of course, you know, when it was finally finished, 0:59:14.560 --> 0:59:16.840 it was awesome, you know, changed the world kind of 0:59:16.880 --> 0:59:20.120 thing um. But you know, sometimes when the records being made, 0:59:20.120 --> 0:59:22.760 you don't understand it. Likewise, Michael would kind of come 0:59:22.800 --> 0:59:25.680 into our sessions and say, said, your band is not 0:59:25.800 --> 0:59:27.960 very good, are they I say, yeah, I know, but 0:59:28.040 --> 0:59:30.560 I mean we we're learning, you know, we're learning, and 0:59:30.600 --> 0:59:33.520 Adam's going to sort it out. Well. About four or 0:59:33.520 --> 0:59:36.480 five days in Adams sacked the band and broad in 0:59:36.560 --> 0:59:39.880 session players. And this was awful for me because my 0:59:39.920 --> 0:59:42.160 friends were leaving out the door and you know, and 0:59:42.200 --> 0:59:44.439 I'm sitting there on my own with David. Of course, 0:59:44.520 --> 0:59:47.760 David's my friend, but these are all new people. You know, Leo, 0:59:48.120 --> 0:59:50.560 what are you doing? And I'm trying to be Leo 0:59:50.680 --> 0:59:52.360 Sarah at the same time, because we've come up with 0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:55.560 the name Leo. So Jerry has become Leo Sarah And 0:59:56.000 --> 1:00:00.480 okay a little bit slower. Why not Jerry because I 1:00:00.480 --> 1:00:02.960 as known as Jerry the harmonica player. I used to 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:06.920 sit in with bands with Georgie Fame and you know, 1:00:07.000 --> 1:00:09.840 and I play with people like Ginger Baker and in 1:00:09.840 --> 1:00:13.520 in in Alexis Corner's blues band, and I used to 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:16.320 see Bill Wyman a lot. I sat in with so 1:00:16.400 --> 1:00:19.560 many bands, you know, Um, there were the you know, 1:00:19.640 --> 1:00:22.600 in the rhythm and blues time. I once got up 1:00:22.640 --> 1:00:25.000 with John Mayle. I played with Muddy Waters and a 1:00:25.080 --> 1:00:29.400 folk club, you know, um, and everybody, oh, there's Jerry 1:00:29.440 --> 1:00:31.560 the harmonica player. And I thought, oh god, I can't 1:00:31.560 --> 1:00:34.000 be known as Jerry the harmonica player. And I was 1:00:34.160 --> 1:00:36.040 and I was going into a new world, you know. 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:38.560 Here I was suddenly with this guy who was a 1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:42.000 bloody pop star, you know, a huge star. I was 1:00:42.160 --> 1:00:45.800 doing television series at the time, Adam Faith. Everybody knew 1:00:45.800 --> 1:00:48.720 Adam Faith, and already there was an article in the 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:52.040 press about this Adam Faith that discovered this new talent. 1:00:52.720 --> 1:00:55.560 And of course, a few weeks later, you know, the 1:00:55.680 --> 1:00:59.600 Roger Daughtry album is released. So but that's a very 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:03.280 significant but that's later. Yeah, that's later. I'll get into 1:01:03.360 --> 1:01:06.120 that later. And of course, you know what I was 1:01:06.120 --> 1:01:09.280 gonna say is, eventually Daltry will be selling Leo Saya 1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:12.320 as his coat, as his songwriter. You see. So that's 1:01:12.440 --> 1:01:14.320 kind of relevant in a way to mention that. Now. 1:01:14.600 --> 1:01:16.560 But I had all these people around me that were 1:01:16.600 --> 1:01:19.320 really believing in me. So here we are at the Manor, 1:01:20.000 --> 1:01:23.480 I've got all these session guys come in, they play amazing. 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:26.720 Suddenly the songs are soaring. Suddenly we're really doing well. 1:01:27.120 --> 1:01:29.600 And then Adam Face just turned around and said, look, 1:01:29.640 --> 1:01:32.640 I can't afford to do any more recording. Um, you know, 1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:36.280 I just don't have the budget. So we stopped. And 1:01:36.360 --> 1:01:40.560 then we were down in Brighton. I think I put 1:01:40.600 --> 1:01:45.040 on a gig and and and Adam brought a guy 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:49.560 along called Keith Altham and very famous music writer and 1:01:49.600 --> 1:01:55.720 publicists later publicists for the Beatles, the Stones, the Trogs, 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:59.160 Jimi Hendrix, of course famous for being the guy that 1:01:59.440 --> 1:02:04.440 persuaded Hendrix to set light to his guitar. Um. Keith 1:02:04.520 --> 1:02:06.840 came down to see the band. He was writing an 1:02:06.920 --> 1:02:11.360 article about me in the New Musical Express and which 1:02:11.400 --> 1:02:14.720 was a fabulous article, which again it was a little 1:02:14.760 --> 1:02:17.040 bit of a thing to live up to. But he 1:02:17.080 --> 1:02:20.440 saw the band and he said, look, Roger Daughtry, he 1:02:20.480 --> 1:02:21.960 was looking after the who at the time. He said, 1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:24.560 Rogers built a studio and he needs a guinea pick 1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:27.440 to try it out. You're looking for a place to work. 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:30.240 Let me give Roger a call. So he gave Roger 1:02:30.280 --> 1:02:32.439 a call and he came back and said, yeah, Roger says, 1:02:32.480 --> 1:02:34.560 you guys come up to the studio, you don't have 1:02:34.600 --> 1:02:36.840 to pay, you know, It's like you can have it 1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:39.400 for free. He'd just be delighted to have someone try 1:02:39.440 --> 1:02:42.520 out the room. So and you can stay next door. 1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:46.160 There's a little pub called the Kicking Donkey, and you 1:02:46.200 --> 1:02:48.680 can stay at the Kicking Donkey, which we did, and 1:02:48.760 --> 1:02:51.840 we went up then started recording, and the second part 1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:55.000 of silver Bird was made in that way without Adam 1:02:55.040 --> 1:02:57.600 having to shell out any more money. And you know, 1:02:58.000 --> 1:03:01.480 everything was kind of he's and breezy and and it 1:03:01.560 --> 1:03:03.880 was lovely working at Roger's. And it was also great 1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:07.560 spending time with this rock icon who turned out to 1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:10.360 be the nicest guy, you know. I mean, there was 1:03:10.400 --> 1:03:12.480 a connection you see, with Adam, which was very good 1:03:12.520 --> 1:03:15.600 because Adam Faith and Roger Daltrey were born on the 1:03:15.640 --> 1:03:18.959 same street in acting. You know, Adam a few years 1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:21.640 older of course, so these guys will be had lots 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:24.160 to talk about. They talked the same language, they had 1:03:24.160 --> 1:03:27.680 the same accent, you know, so that the connection was 1:03:27.720 --> 1:03:30.840 a dream connection, you know. And then one day Roger 1:03:30.920 --> 1:03:33.360 just turned around and said, look I love these songs. 1:03:33.520 --> 1:03:36.640 You know, um, before you finish it all up. Have 1:03:36.720 --> 1:03:38.640 you got any more songs that you haven't put on 1:03:38.680 --> 1:03:42.560 the album? And and David and I said, well, yeah, 1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:45.960 we've cut loads. You know, we're we're even writing for 1:03:46.000 --> 1:03:47.720 the next album. He said, could you give me some 1:03:47.800 --> 1:03:50.919 of the songs? And we said what, and he said, yeah, 1:03:50.920 --> 1:03:53.800 I want to make a solo album. Roger Peter has 1:03:53.840 --> 1:03:56.120 made a solo album. Big Townsend has made a solo album, 1:03:56.200 --> 1:03:58.160 So I want to do one. I want to show 1:03:58.200 --> 1:03:59.920 him he's not the only one who can go solo. 1:04:00.840 --> 1:04:03.400 So he said yeah, right. So David and I looked 1:04:03.400 --> 1:04:05.760 at the list of songs we had and we got 1:04:05.760 --> 1:04:08.680 the tapes out, the old Grundig tapes that we've made 1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:16.520 of these things, and yeah, we we decided we had 1:04:16.640 --> 1:04:19.600 quite enough and we talked to Adam about the idea 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:22.160 and he said, it's great, it's a good idea. I'll 1:04:22.160 --> 1:04:26.360 produce it Roger. Roger wanted Adam and David to produce it, 1:04:26.400 --> 1:04:28.680 do it in the same style, and do it there 1:04:28.680 --> 1:04:31.760 in the studio. So that's how they started off, and 1:04:32.920 --> 1:04:36.760 they made the Daughtry album. Decided to hold up my album. 1:04:36.800 --> 1:04:39.000 So my album is already a year old when the 1:04:39.040 --> 1:04:42.560 Daughtry album came out, decided to hold it up because, 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:46.480 as Adams said, and Roger agreed, Look, you know you 1:04:46.480 --> 1:04:48.960 can do more good for Leo by telling everybody about 1:04:48.960 --> 1:04:51.760 this songwriter. He said, yeah, if it's a hit, everybody 1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:54.680 will want to know anyway, and Giving It All Away 1:04:55.080 --> 1:04:57.920 hit the top twenty I think on top forty or 1:04:57.960 --> 1:05:01.120 something in America, went into the chart there and when 1:05:01.240 --> 1:05:03.440 is the charts in England? The album went into the 1:05:03.600 --> 1:05:09.040 charts in England. So everybody was talking about Roger Daltrey's 1:05:09.080 --> 1:05:12.920 solo album when it came out, and and everybody was 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:14.960 talking about this song right, and so was Roger. And 1:05:15.000 --> 1:05:17.720 every interview said, wait, do you meet this guy. He's fantastic, 1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:21.240 what a talent, great voice as well. His songs are fantastic. 1:05:21.280 --> 1:05:23.360 I just had to do them, you know this, This 1:05:23.440 --> 1:05:28.480 was it. So I had Roger Daltrey, the lead singer 1:05:28.520 --> 1:05:31.480 of the Who, probably the biggest band in the world 1:05:31.520 --> 1:05:35.439 at that time, you know, as my publicist. Not Bad 1:05:35.480 --> 1:05:38.120 Ain't That's how I found out about you. I bought 1:05:38.120 --> 1:05:41.600 that album Giving It All Away one and bad That's 1:05:41.600 --> 1:05:45.760 why I don't buy your record, absolutely really yeah, So 1:05:45.760 --> 1:05:49.320 so that all kind of opened up the doors. And 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:54.280 then when we released my record, the reaction was fantastic. 1:05:54.440 --> 1:05:57.040 So you could say it all happened overnight. I mean 1:05:57.080 --> 1:05:59.840 he didn't, as he's can tell from the album being 1:05:59.880 --> 1:06:03.320 held up a year the longest station took towards it. 1:06:03.440 --> 1:06:06.440 You know, it wasn't all that simple, but when it 1:06:06.640 --> 1:06:10.440 was released, it all happened so quick. You know. I 1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:14.600 went on tour with Roxy Music supporting them. We want 1:06:14.600 --> 1:06:17.280 to tour in England? Who put that bill together? Because 1:06:17.280 --> 1:06:20.200 I don't see the music as being in the same spectrum, 1:06:20.280 --> 1:06:23.760 well in a way, you know in England, Um, you 1:06:23.880 --> 1:06:27.600 had let's take it. I always use that term rack jobbing, 1:06:27.800 --> 1:06:30.680 you know, when every everybody's in the same I mean 1:06:30.720 --> 1:06:32.600 we live in a rack jobbing world, now, don't we. 1:06:32.640 --> 1:06:35.640 I mean your radio show would should not appeal to 1:06:35.720 --> 1:06:39.200 someone doing heavy metal and vice versa. But in the 1:06:39.320 --> 1:06:44.840 seventies in England, if everything went together, you know, there 1:06:44.920 --> 1:06:51.000 was no categorization. Um, people wanted variety. You know, England 1:06:51.040 --> 1:06:52.800 had grown up and think as well. And it's an 1:06:52.800 --> 1:06:55.800 important thing to say this, we've grown up. All of 1:06:55.800 --> 1:06:58.200 our American acts that came over came over in package 1:06:58.240 --> 1:07:00.960 to us. So you know, you'd get Freddie and the 1:07:01.000 --> 1:07:04.600 Dreamers on the same bill as Eddie Cochrane and Buddy Holly, 1:07:04.680 --> 1:07:08.480 and you'd get Desert Connor, who was basically a crooner, 1:07:08.640 --> 1:07:12.120 on the same bill as as Buddy Holly. You know, 1:07:12.240 --> 1:07:16.120 Daz has got Buddy's last guitar. Um des sadly has died. 1:07:16.200 --> 1:07:18.920 Now I think the guitars belonged to somebody else, but 1:07:18.960 --> 1:07:21.000 you know, Buddy gave him the guitar. They were on 1:07:21.040 --> 1:07:23.680 tour together and you'd get these package acts, you know, 1:07:23.720 --> 1:07:26.760 so we saw everybody together. So I think England was 1:07:26.800 --> 1:07:32.040 really into you know, a variety show kind of you know, 1:07:32.520 --> 1:07:35.920 live thing very much. Comedians on with the Beatles were 1:07:35.920 --> 1:07:39.640 always opened up by comedians, you know, and the Beatles 1:07:39.640 --> 1:07:43.520 would open up for comedians or classic singers like Shirley Bassie, 1:07:43.680 --> 1:07:48.000 you know, people like that. So our radio wasn't so 1:07:49.360 --> 1:07:52.600 uh kind of programmed out to kind of think that 1:07:53.080 --> 1:07:56.000 a novelty song would be played right next to Status 1:07:56.040 --> 1:07:58.720 Quo or something like that, you know. And so I 1:07:58.720 --> 1:08:01.640 think in the English audience is wanted to be surprised 1:08:01.720 --> 1:08:06.640 on stage and we were. That bill was put together 1:08:06.680 --> 1:08:10.040 by a chrysalists agency. We were with Chrysalis Records, and 1:08:10.040 --> 1:08:13.480 the Chrysalists agency looked after Roxy music and me, so 1:08:13.680 --> 1:08:17.479 they put they put it together. After after one show 1:08:17.720 --> 1:08:21.080 where I wasn't getting really much reaction, I decided to 1:08:21.160 --> 1:08:24.320 dress like the record cover, the Piero, the white face. 1:08:24.800 --> 1:08:27.640 So we had the same team who had helped me 1:08:27.800 --> 1:08:30.120 get that image together for the record cover. The back 1:08:30.160 --> 1:08:34.479 of the record cover inspired by this amazing movie called 1:08:34.560 --> 1:08:38.040 Les Enfante Parody, which I had loved as a as 1:08:38.080 --> 1:08:43.880 an art student, where this guy, director Marcel Khan, had 1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:48.559 got John Louis Baptiste, this amazing French actor, to portray 1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:52.920 himself as the Piero, like Piero and and Harlequin, the 1:08:52.960 --> 1:08:57.080 famous French stories in this movie made during the last 1:08:57.160 --> 1:09:01.720 year of the German occupation of Paris of France, and 1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:06.080 it's an amazing movie. Um, and I love this character 1:09:06.920 --> 1:09:10.040 and when I I'm digressing again. But I'll give you 1:09:10.080 --> 1:09:12.439 the background to how it no no keep going, I 1:09:12.520 --> 1:09:15.760 keep going, and how that came about. Roger Daughtry had 1:09:15.800 --> 1:09:22.320 a cousin, Graham Hughes, wonderful photographer who shot the Daughtry cover. UM, 1:09:22.520 --> 1:09:26.160 and Roger suggested I went to see Graham, which I 1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:29.640 did in London, and I went to a studio and 1:09:29.680 --> 1:09:32.080 he'd just been doing a photo shoot, a fashion photo 1:09:32.080 --> 1:09:36.160 shoot for Vogue magazine. And in the background, well, there 1:09:36.200 --> 1:09:38.400 was a girl that remember the Rocky Horror Show. There 1:09:38.439 --> 1:09:41.360 was a girl called Little Little Nell who was this 1:09:41.720 --> 1:09:46.160 amazing actress and character in the Rocky Horror Show. She 1:09:46.320 --> 1:09:50.320 was in the shoot. And that guy played Frank and 1:09:50.439 --> 1:09:54.479 Furter Um he was in the current member his name 1:09:54.479 --> 1:09:56.200 of the actor, you know. He was in the shoot 1:09:56.240 --> 1:09:59.679 with these models, and in the background was a piero. 1:10:00.760 --> 1:10:04.679 And Graham's straightaway. For those in America, we're talking about 1:10:04.680 --> 1:10:07.479 a clown, a clown, yeah, but but the French piero 1:10:07.640 --> 1:10:09.920 is different than the happens for those out of the loop. 1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:13.240 Absolutely yeah, yeah, Well, if we talk about clowns, you've 1:10:13.280 --> 1:10:16.120 got two different clowns. You've got three clowns. Really that 1:10:16.680 --> 1:10:21.360 you've got Ill Paliarchi, okay, is the white faced, sad 1:10:21.439 --> 1:10:26.400 narrator of most of those operas. Ill Paliarci is kind 1:10:26.439 --> 1:10:30.080 of he's a fool, but as well, he's a wise fool. 1:10:31.120 --> 1:10:34.800 In France, Piero is the moralizer, he's the teller, of 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:39.879 the story. Harlequin is the bad, mischievous guy in England. 1:10:39.920 --> 1:10:43.240 You've got Coco, the clown as famous for all the circuits. 1:10:43.240 --> 1:10:45.360 So he's just there to entertain the kids. He's a 1:10:45.360 --> 1:10:48.320 guy with makeup on, basically, not much more than that. 1:10:49.120 --> 1:10:53.280 Um but Piero is a very serious character. He'll tell 1:10:53.280 --> 1:10:56.120 you a story and you you're inclined to believe him 1:10:56.160 --> 1:10:59.960 because he's he's expressionless in his face and he usually 1:11:00.000 --> 1:11:04.320 tells the story and mine ala Marcel Marcel. You know, 1:11:04.400 --> 1:11:08.080 Marcel Marceau took on the Piero character and basically told 1:11:08.080 --> 1:11:12.799 his story and mime. He was a mime artist. Um so, 1:11:12.800 --> 1:11:17.920 so I loved Piero for this kind of blank faced 1:11:18.600 --> 1:11:20.840 guy that you would listen to what he'd say. He 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:24.200 would the storyteller, and I was a storyteller. In my songs, 1:11:24.400 --> 1:11:27.000 they were all about me, you know at that time, 1:11:27.000 --> 1:11:30.160 they're all about my life. Um silver Bird and Just 1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:33.519 a Boy are basically autobiographical albums. Yeah, they were all 1:11:33.680 --> 1:11:43.200 Leo telling you his story. Okay, so you got to 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:46.559 the photo shoot and you see the Piero in the background. Yeah, 1:11:46.640 --> 1:11:49.400 I see this picture, and Graham says, at the same moment, 1:11:49.479 --> 1:11:51.360 So how do you see yourself then? Because he knows 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:54.400 all about me from roger Um And I said, like that, 1:11:55.160 --> 1:11:58.360 I don't know. I just instantly reaction and point to 1:11:58.400 --> 1:12:02.040 the piero and he said, great, that's Julian. He said, 1:12:02.080 --> 1:12:06.240 he's from Belgium. He's a street clown and basically he's 1:12:06.320 --> 1:12:08.040 here for a few days. Why don't I bring him 1:12:08.040 --> 1:12:10.800 in tomorrow? And he said you could try on his 1:12:10.840 --> 1:12:15.840 outfit and I went, well, okay, yeah, you know, it's 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:17.720 I mean, it's just a fad of company, isn't it. 1:12:17.760 --> 1:12:21.559 You know. I wish I had my big mouth. But 1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:25.320 and he's got this makeup girl called Kirsty Climo, who was, Ah, 1:12:25.640 --> 1:12:28.559 she's one of the best theatrical makeup girls in the world. 1:12:29.240 --> 1:12:31.760 And she was a friend of his, and he said, 1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:34.160 I'm going to bring Kirsty. And I knew of Kirsty 1:12:34.240 --> 1:12:36.560 already because of friends of mine who were actors, and 1:12:36.560 --> 1:12:39.360 I went for Kirsty client he said, yeah, yeah, she's great, 1:12:39.520 --> 1:12:41.599 I'll get her in. She can do the makeup. She 1:12:41.600 --> 1:12:44.679 she knows how to do Piro because she'd done Pally 1:12:44.800 --> 1:12:47.800 Archie for the opera, you know, so hey, come on, 1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:50.599 you know, so I had her, and I had this 1:12:50.680 --> 1:12:55.400 wonderful beautiful guy, Julian with his with his suit. The 1:12:55.439 --> 1:12:58.920 only glitch was he was about six ft tall or so. 1:12:58.920 --> 1:13:02.640 So basically most of them. You see the gatefold inside 1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:05.360 cover if anybody's got that of Silver Bird, and you'll 1:13:05.360 --> 1:13:08.559 see me kind of crouching down, and that's because the 1:13:08.560 --> 1:13:11.360 trousers are pinned up, you know. You can't see the 1:13:11.439 --> 1:13:15.640 pinning for the sort of like the bodice over the 1:13:15.680 --> 1:13:19.480 top covering it, you know. But but that was it. Um, 1:13:19.479 --> 1:13:22.519 and I was in his suit and they wouldn't let 1:13:22.520 --> 1:13:25.400 me look in the mirror, okay, until it was all done. 1:13:25.600 --> 1:13:29.160 Kirsty was about an hour putting the makeup together, and 1:13:29.240 --> 1:13:31.799 Julian was kind of fussing with the suit and getting 1:13:31.800 --> 1:13:34.400 it right, and they found me that somebody went out 1:13:34.439 --> 1:13:37.599 and found some white dance shoes from Cabizio and they 1:13:37.680 --> 1:13:42.280 put on me and Um, Kirstie had developed this black 1:13:42.360 --> 1:13:46.040 bathing cap and cut with the little pointed bit in 1:13:46.120 --> 1:13:49.920 the middle, you know, perfectly to fit. So all this 1:13:50.040 --> 1:13:52.679 is I think they brought a hairstylist to make sure 1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:54.240 that the hair was all pinned in because I had 1:13:54.240 --> 1:13:58.400 a huge hair at that time, you know. So finally 1:13:59.160 --> 1:14:01.160 Graham is all a jumping up and down. He says, 1:14:01.240 --> 1:14:03.839 this is incredible. You look at me. I can't see myself. 1:14:04.040 --> 1:14:06.599 All I can do is feel this awful white Lechner 1:14:06.920 --> 1:14:11.280 panstick makeup all across my face, and I know my 1:14:11.360 --> 1:14:13.840 hands are in gloves. I feel like my body has 1:14:13.880 --> 1:14:16.679 been taken away somewhere. You know. It's like weird, weird, 1:14:16.760 --> 1:14:20.280 weird weird, but it's exciting at the same time. And 1:14:20.560 --> 1:14:24.200 I've literally metamorphosized. I mean, you're talking about Jerry becoming 1:14:24.280 --> 1:14:29.559 Leo Sayah, he became Leo Saya at that moment, you see, 1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:33.200 because there's no way that Jerry could ever be recognized again. 1:14:34.360 --> 1:14:39.040 So I walk out. They right, Grahams has finished, and 1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:40.479 I walk out, and I walk out in front of 1:14:40.479 --> 1:14:44.679 this full length mirror, a whole huge, great, big mirrored 1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:49.519 glass plane pain and I see myself and I just said, yes, 1:14:50.760 --> 1:14:56.160 that's it. I can go on like this. And it 1:14:56.280 --> 1:14:59.240 was just incredible that we did the photo shoot, and 1:14:59.560 --> 1:15:02.599 you know, afterwards, took off the makeup and Cursty said, 1:15:02.760 --> 1:15:06.280 he looked amazing. She said, when when you decide to 1:15:06.320 --> 1:15:09.639 do it for real, I'll be there. I said, for real, 1:15:10.000 --> 1:15:12.000 I thought we were just doing the photo and it 1:15:12.080 --> 1:15:15.679 was clicking with me that I was, yeah, becoming somebody else. 1:15:16.680 --> 1:15:18.680 So we did the first Roxy show and I was 1:15:18.720 --> 1:15:21.360 just went on in jeans and nice shirt, you know, 1:15:21.400 --> 1:15:23.880 all that stuff. Nobody really noticed. They all talked and 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:27.519 waited for Roxy to come on. You know, Brian Eno 1:15:27.640 --> 1:15:29.799 had left the band, by the way, at that time, 1:15:30.600 --> 1:15:32.840 he was the very much I suppose in a way, 1:15:33.080 --> 1:15:35.640 Brian used to dress up in a similar kind of 1:15:35.680 --> 1:15:38.200 over the top way. So the so the glam rock 1:15:38.240 --> 1:15:41.920 crowd would like to come for him, you know, um, 1:15:41.960 --> 1:15:44.280 but Roxy would being a bit more serious. Now. You know, 1:15:44.560 --> 1:15:50.040 Brian was in a white tuxedo. They're all looking very sophisticated. Um. 1:15:50.080 --> 1:15:54.080 And the second gig, I'm in my dressing room, I'm 1:15:54.120 --> 1:15:57.519 making up and we're putting in the outfit. My wife, 1:15:57.640 --> 1:16:01.479 Janice now has made the suit for me, um, and 1:16:01.680 --> 1:16:04.280 she's a really good seamstress. So I had this fabulous 1:16:04.360 --> 1:16:08.000 kind of satin silk suit with the little you know, 1:16:08.200 --> 1:16:14.080 the three velcro stuck on bobbles, you know that you've 1:16:14.080 --> 1:16:18.160 got on the front, the red spots for the cheeks. 1:16:18.600 --> 1:16:22.439 The eyes were dramatically done, the black bathing cap in place, 1:16:22.560 --> 1:16:26.040 well pinned, and the gloves on and the white shoes 1:16:26.680 --> 1:16:28.720 and I walk out in front of the band and 1:16:28.800 --> 1:16:33.519 there's this reaction from the audience. We're playing Sheffield City Hall. 1:16:33.560 --> 1:16:36.479 I think it absolutely packed because Roxy are a big band. 1:16:37.000 --> 1:16:38.920 You know, they don't know who LEAs Sarah is really. 1:16:39.360 --> 1:16:43.959 But the moment I woke up, there's and someone shouted 1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:53.640 he knows back and the I played five songs in silence. 1:16:55.400 --> 1:17:01.519 There wasn't applause, there wasn't anything, and there wasn't a 1:17:01.640 --> 1:17:05.920 murmur anybody. Nobody was talking in the room. Everybody was 1:17:06.000 --> 1:17:08.120 just craning their eyes to see. And I didn't say 1:17:08.120 --> 1:17:10.600 a word. I just sang five songs and with the 1:17:10.640 --> 1:17:12.840 mime and the hands going all over the place, just 1:17:12.920 --> 1:17:17.320 like you've seen in the videos. And then I said 1:17:17.320 --> 1:17:19.960 thank you very much, and all of a sudden, the 1:17:20.000 --> 1:17:24.280 place broke out into applause. All of Roxy music or 1:17:24.320 --> 1:17:26.560 on the side of the stage watching this, by the way, 1:17:27.040 --> 1:17:32.439 and the chance started. They started shouting Leo, Leo, Leo. 1:17:32.680 --> 1:17:34.519 This is all on the first night of the clown. 1:17:36.160 --> 1:17:39.040 It was just incredible. And they were still shouting Leo 1:17:39.120 --> 1:17:41.640 when Roxy went on, so they weren't very happy with me, 1:17:42.240 --> 1:17:44.400 but I carried on the tour. Brian actually thought it 1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:46.120 was great. He kept coming up to me and saying, 1:17:46.400 --> 1:17:50.040 fabulous image, fabulous image. So we we went on the 1:17:50.080 --> 1:17:52.800 tour and we went, you know, we completed the tour 1:17:52.880 --> 1:17:55.679 almost we gone into France. I think we played a 1:17:55.720 --> 1:17:58.440 couple of gigs in France, we played some in Germany, 1:17:58.560 --> 1:18:00.479 and then the management just turned around said you've got 1:18:00.479 --> 1:18:02.479 to get him off the tour. He's getting too much applause. 1:18:02.760 --> 1:18:05.320 And my record was rocketing up the charts. The show 1:18:05.400 --> 1:18:08.639 must go on, and their record was not doing so well. 1:18:08.920 --> 1:18:12.759 So yeah, but that was my That was how it started. Okay, 1:18:12.800 --> 1:18:15.360 so you finished the tour with Roxy Music. What's the 1:18:15.400 --> 1:18:19.280 next step. Well, we went on a tour. You know, 1:18:19.479 --> 1:18:22.599 now we're now we're appearing as the Piero and everything's 1:18:22.640 --> 1:18:25.679 going well. The records are hit, the album's are hit. 1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:29.040 So I toured England and then we just got this 1:18:29.120 --> 1:18:32.040 invite from already we were we were with Warner Brothers 1:18:32.080 --> 1:18:35.479 in America, so we just got this invite from I 1:18:35.520 --> 1:18:38.920 think it was I can't remember the agency, but to 1:18:38.960 --> 1:18:46.080 come and do do the States and arrived in Los Angeles. Um, 1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:48.559 we had all the makeup and the outfits of course 1:18:48.600 --> 1:18:51.880 ready to go. And Terry O. Neil is my photographer 1:18:51.920 --> 1:18:53.519 by this time. So the first thing we did was 1:18:53.560 --> 1:18:56.320 go down to Santa Monica Pia and do lots of show, 1:18:56.600 --> 1:19:01.320 lots of shots of the piero and and I think 1:19:01.320 --> 1:19:04.120 that they used that as publicity because nobody knew what 1:19:04.160 --> 1:19:06.400 I really who, what I really looked like, which was 1:19:06.439 --> 1:19:10.960 quite interesting. In America, they'd never seen Leo Saya apart 1:19:11.000 --> 1:19:16.559 from the record cover and and and of course the 1:19:16.600 --> 1:19:20.280 piero on the back. And I went straight to Memphis 1:19:21.080 --> 1:19:26.639 where we started playing in a club supporting jjkle. Um. 1:19:26.760 --> 1:19:30.839 I can't remember what it was called the Mississippi something alright, 1:19:31.360 --> 1:19:36.120 just outside Memphis. And again the reaction just started went 1:19:36.160 --> 1:19:40.120 through the roof. You know, it's just incredible. Everybody's loving 1:19:40.160 --> 1:19:41.960 this thing. J. J kle didn't know what to make 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:45.320 of me. He used to perform with hardly any lights on, 1:19:46.560 --> 1:19:48.880 you know, and we had to bring in lights for 1:19:48.960 --> 1:19:52.240 my show because he just didn't have enough. Um, but 1:19:52.400 --> 1:19:54.560 it just went mad. We had a week in Memphis, 1:19:54.560 --> 1:19:56.439 then it was a week in Boston. And then it 1:19:56.479 --> 1:19:59.679 was just all over the country. We ended up going 1:19:59.680 --> 1:20:03.479 to the bottom Line in New York um and hit 1:20:03.560 --> 1:20:06.240 all the papers there. You know, the record started to 1:20:06.280 --> 1:20:09.479 be a success. At the same time, Three Dog Night 1:20:09.560 --> 1:20:11.960 have recorded The Show Must Go On and that's higher 1:20:12.040 --> 1:20:14.760 up in the charts. Oh, they decided just not to 1:20:14.760 --> 1:20:17.519 release my single, I think because the Three Dog Night 1:20:17.640 --> 1:20:20.960 was version of The Show Must Go On, which still 1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:23.760 annoys me, because they were singing we must let the 1:20:23.760 --> 1:20:26.320 show go on, whereas the song is I won't let 1:20:26.360 --> 1:20:28.599 the show go on, you know in the chorus, you know. 1:20:28.640 --> 1:20:31.240 But there and they had circus clowns, you know, going 1:20:31.240 --> 1:20:33.880 back to Cocoa the clown. You know, they've seen me 1:20:33.960 --> 1:20:36.920 performing in in London. I think at Top of the 1:20:36.960 --> 1:20:40.639 Pops they're probably on the same show and or else 1:20:40.680 --> 1:20:42.720 watched it on the TV and thought, hey, let's cover 1:20:42.800 --> 1:20:48.320 that song. So that's what they did, and you know, um, oh, well, 1:20:48.360 --> 1:20:51.120 you know it's they just didn't quite get it, I 1:20:51.120 --> 1:20:53.840 don't think. But it didn't matter. There was a hit, 1:20:54.360 --> 1:20:58.920 you know, and that was the American tour. We just 1:20:59.040 --> 1:21:00.920 everywhere we went. By the time we got to Los 1:21:00.960 --> 1:21:04.160 Angeles and Robert Hillban was writing about us, and then 1:21:04.520 --> 1:21:07.400 San Francisco where Ben Fong Torres was writing and rolling 1:21:07.400 --> 1:21:10.880 Stone about me. You know, you couldn't climb any higher, 1:21:10.920 --> 1:21:13.880 really it was. It was quite an incredible um. I 1:21:13.920 --> 1:21:17.519 began a friendship with with with Ben actually at that time, 1:21:17.560 --> 1:21:19.840 you know, which followed me all the way through my career. 1:21:19.960 --> 1:21:22.439 So har does Long Talk Glasses end up becoming a 1:21:22.520 --> 1:21:24.719 huge check While we were there on that first tour, 1:21:24.800 --> 1:21:28.080 I think we recorded one man band. I do believe 1:21:28.120 --> 1:21:31.400 that's Rykuda playing acoustic guitar on that Wow. Because Adam 1:21:31.520 --> 1:21:34.000 tried to do some recording out there, didn't tell me 1:21:34.040 --> 1:21:36.120 about it. Of course, this is typically what he'd do. 1:21:36.200 --> 1:21:38.479 He just went into a studio, here's this song. I'll 1:21:38.520 --> 1:21:40.000 play it to you and see what you can make 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:43.880 of it, you know. So so, but we eventually came 1:21:43.920 --> 1:21:48.040 back and started recording the album. Uh, straight after that 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:53.120 American tour. The rest of four was spent in the studio, 1:21:53.200 --> 1:21:58.479 I think mostly recording just a boy. So and I 1:21:58.720 --> 1:22:05.320 Long Till Glasses were really me writing lyrics inspired by 1:22:05.400 --> 1:22:08.680 my favorite movie, The gold Rush Charlie Chaplin. What a 1:22:08.720 --> 1:22:12.479 great movie. Yeah, and you know the scene, the scene 1:22:12.479 --> 1:22:14.639 where he goes into the bar and he's got to dance. 1:22:14.680 --> 1:22:16.559 He's not really dressed for the part, but he kind 1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:20.240 of pretends he is, you know, And and I thought 1:22:20.280 --> 1:22:23.280 about me. I was thinking about me in America. I 1:22:23.360 --> 1:22:25.400 was just I was shell shocked over the reaction in 1:22:25.400 --> 1:22:27.960 America because everybody said, you know, why do you need 1:22:27.960 --> 1:22:30.040 to dress as a clown? You can sing, You've got 1:22:30.120 --> 1:22:34.040 all the you're really talent. I'm going yet, really, because 1:22:34.040 --> 1:22:35.960 I was thinking, I'm never going to be as good 1:22:35.960 --> 1:22:40.759 as my heroes, my American heroes, Otis Redding and Ah, 1:22:40.760 --> 1:22:44.600 you know, Wilson Picket and even Bob Dylan and you 1:22:44.640 --> 1:22:48.040 know all of the great American artists, Sam Cook, Wow, 1:22:48.080 --> 1:22:51.040 you know Elvis. I just thought I was going to 1:22:51.080 --> 1:22:53.120 be a bit player, you know, in the music scene. 1:22:53.640 --> 1:22:56.720 But they kind of thought I was really special, and 1:22:56.760 --> 1:22:59.280 they persuaded me, you know, take off the makeup, show 1:22:59.320 --> 1:23:01.200 your real self. You're a good looking guy, you know, 1:23:01.320 --> 1:23:04.200 come on, you can be a big star. So I 1:23:04.280 --> 1:23:07.080 was kind of a bit embarrassed by all of this, 1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:10.519 and I felt like the guy in the gold Rush 1:23:10.560 --> 1:23:13.200 who goes into the bar. You know. I was traveling 1:23:13.200 --> 1:23:15.320 down the road feeling hungry, and cold so or a 1:23:15.360 --> 1:23:18.400 science saying food and drinks for everyone. Food and drinks 1:23:18.479 --> 1:23:22.160 is like, you know, the American riches. You know, all 1:23:22.200 --> 1:23:27.200 of this can be yours, girls partying, fast cars, clubs, 1:23:27.680 --> 1:23:33.720 you know, best hotels, fame, um, groupies, you know. Um. 1:23:33.760 --> 1:23:37.599 And and I didn't really know how to handle it, 1:23:37.680 --> 1:23:41.639 you know, so I I was very shy. Um. So 1:23:42.400 --> 1:23:45.400 the song is all about, you know, he says, Oh, 1:23:45.760 --> 1:23:48.519 I can't dance, like I'm saying I can't sing, you know, 1:23:48.560 --> 1:23:51.479 I'm not really no, I'm not that good. And and 1:23:51.520 --> 1:23:53.640 the song kind of gets to a point where he 1:23:53.760 --> 1:23:55.439 just says, oh, he's just so fed up with this 1:23:56.040 --> 1:23:58.360 barracking going on from everybody, and he just turns out 1:23:58.360 --> 1:24:00.920 and said, oh all right, okay, hang on, wait a minute, 1:24:01.880 --> 1:24:03.720 and he says, you know I can dance, you know. 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:06.519 So in other words, it's America. You see, if you 1:24:06.640 --> 1:24:09.160 believe you can do something, and you show the confidence, 1:24:09.400 --> 1:24:11.760 then you can do something. You know, all you have 1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:15.080 to do is bullshit everybody into saying you're brilliant, and 1:24:15.120 --> 1:24:17.840 they all think it brilliant. So that's how it seemed 1:24:17.840 --> 1:24:21.040 to me. It was an easy ticket. Um. And that's 1:24:21.040 --> 1:24:23.439 what that song is about. It's about the metamorphosis to 1:24:23.479 --> 1:24:26.040 where you can actually think, why not give people what 1:24:26.080 --> 1:24:29.360 they want and stop being so petulant about it? You know. Okay, 1:24:29.360 --> 1:24:33.800 So ultimately you break up with David Courtney and you 1:24:33.880 --> 1:24:37.799 end up working with Richard Perry. How does that happen? Well, 1:24:38.120 --> 1:24:41.559 Adam was always very crafty, he claimed. When we went 1:24:41.600 --> 1:24:44.639 for the third album another year, which I'm very very 1:24:44.640 --> 1:24:48.599 proud of. Um, he claimed that David wasn't interested in 1:24:48.640 --> 1:24:51.040 working with me any longer because basically wanted to do 1:24:51.080 --> 1:24:54.639 his own project, which actually was patently not true. I mean, 1:24:54.720 --> 1:24:56.960 David wanted to do his home and album, but there 1:24:57.000 --> 1:24:58.519 was always going to be time for that because I 1:24:58.520 --> 1:25:01.120 wouldn't been away on a se x month American tour 1:25:01.520 --> 1:25:04.640 very soon anyway, second tour, and David had plenty of 1:25:04.680 --> 1:25:07.920 time to do that, you know. Um. And when I 1:25:07.960 --> 1:25:11.519 phoned David well, I found he changed his number. But 1:25:11.600 --> 1:25:13.599 Adam had set all this up, you know. He said 1:25:13.760 --> 1:25:15.880 to David, you shouldn't be working with him. You're good 1:25:16.000 --> 1:25:17.680 enough to do it on your own, you know. He 1:25:17.760 --> 1:25:20.840 split us up basically, so I had a bass player 1:25:20.880 --> 1:25:22.960 I was working with as a wonderful guy. It was 1:25:23.520 --> 1:25:26.240 in you remember the band super Tramps. Well, Frank was 1:25:26.280 --> 1:25:29.599 a founding member of super Tramp, but he left because 1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:32.479 basically the band had no money. They weren't going anywhere. 1:25:32.520 --> 1:25:35.320 So Frank had to get jobs as a as a 1:25:35.400 --> 1:25:39.200 jobbing session musician, you know, and work with other bands 1:25:39.280 --> 1:25:42.800 to to you know, to make a living. So he 1:25:42.960 --> 1:25:47.360 turned up in one of my roadies houses, um staying 1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:50.160 in a flat there, and there was a piano there 1:25:50.200 --> 1:25:52.080 and Frank was always playing piano and I thought it 1:25:52.120 --> 1:25:54.840 was great pianist. He was a bass player, and I 1:25:54.840 --> 1:25:57.800 asked him to join my band, and he joined the band. 1:25:57.840 --> 1:26:00.640 But it turned out he was really talented, and I was, 1:26:00.960 --> 1:26:03.240 you know, I was frustrated with David. But I was 1:26:03.280 --> 1:26:08.320 coming up with all these songs, um and ideas for songs, 1:26:08.360 --> 1:26:11.599 and I'd start singing melodies to them, you know, and 1:26:11.640 --> 1:26:15.000 I and I played some to Frank and he said, okay, 1:26:15.240 --> 1:26:18.160 got onto the piano and started fleshing them out. You know. 1:26:18.800 --> 1:26:22.479 So I had a new writer, and he was taking 1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:25.479 my mellow melody, you know, my melody ideas and then 1:26:25.520 --> 1:26:28.080 taking them further. And then eventually, of course he would 1:26:28.120 --> 1:26:30.720 come up with some melody ideas but basically I was 1:26:30.800 --> 1:26:33.719 much more in control. So even though I had lost David, 1:26:33.800 --> 1:26:37.599 I was very happy because I could actually kind of 1:26:37.680 --> 1:26:41.680 make the words fit the music, you know, because I 1:26:41.680 --> 1:26:44.120 can imagine what the music was going to be. I 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:47.840 didn't have to wait for a for a songwriter to 1:26:47.920 --> 1:26:50.960 give me a melody to sing to. So the whole 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:54.200 process became closer, you know. With Frank. So we made 1:26:54.200 --> 1:26:56.800 this record another year and I thought was great, but 1:26:56.880 --> 1:27:00.440 Adam was patently getting less interested in being my producer. 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:07.160 He brought in Russ Ballard. Russ Ballard was, oh god, 1:27:07.280 --> 1:27:09.680 I can't remember all the bands Argent there you go 1:27:10.640 --> 1:27:13.680 at that time. But in an earlier version, Russ was 1:27:14.120 --> 1:27:19.240 Adams guitarist and on silver Bird. Going back to Silverbird, 1:27:19.240 --> 1:27:21.519 he's the guy who plays the banjo on The Show 1:27:21.600 --> 1:27:24.200 Must Go On and most of the guitars on that record. 1:27:24.760 --> 1:27:27.960 Um So, Russ came in with Adam as co producer 1:27:27.960 --> 1:27:31.880 and Russ is brilliant, great producer and a fantastic pianist. 1:27:32.320 --> 1:27:34.720 You have no idea how a guitarist could be. I 1:27:34.720 --> 1:27:38.160 think it was trained on piano. Um So, he's playing 1:27:38.160 --> 1:27:42.200 piano on the album. Didn't play any guitar. Frank's playing 1:27:42.200 --> 1:27:44.640 piano on the album as well, and we've got a 1:27:44.680 --> 1:27:47.200 great bunch of in the band, some of the guys 1:27:47.240 --> 1:27:49.360 that have been on the first album. We you know, 1:27:49.520 --> 1:27:53.920 we we we made another year so quickly because Adam 1:27:54.080 --> 1:27:55.240 he said, I just want to do it in two 1:27:55.280 --> 1:27:58.920 weeks because I'm busy. So we made the whole album 1:27:59.000 --> 1:28:01.560 start to finish in two weeks and no chance for 1:28:01.680 --> 1:28:04.760 retakes and anything. So I kind of I suppose a 1:28:04.840 --> 1:28:07.800 rough and ready approach, and the mix isn't perfect, but 1:28:07.880 --> 1:28:10.680 we did get some great strings on there, and I 1:28:10.720 --> 1:28:15.280 think it's one of my finest albums personally, So okay, 1:28:15.400 --> 1:28:18.640 close that out. Um. For some reason, I think I 1:28:18.680 --> 1:28:22.720 had wisdom tooth operation. I failed to make the American 1:28:22.800 --> 1:28:26.160 tour so we couldn't promote it, and Adam I think 1:28:26.200 --> 1:28:28.760 influence warners to kind of like go quiet on the 1:28:28.760 --> 1:28:31.360 album dot spend much money. I think at this time 1:28:31.400 --> 1:28:33.240 he was discovering that he could actually get them to 1:28:33.280 --> 1:28:35.439 pay a lot of money out and put it in 1:28:35.520 --> 1:28:37.400 his pocket and not give most of it to me. 1:28:37.800 --> 1:28:40.519 So that was basically the most opera endi that he 1:28:40.640 --> 1:28:42.960 discovered he could make money out of an artist you know, 1:28:43.320 --> 1:28:45.120 so that's what he started to do. He's a bit 1:28:45.120 --> 1:28:49.160 of a rogue like that. So um, so there we were. 1:28:49.240 --> 1:28:52.760 We went to America to talk to producers because he 1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:57.120 was wanted a new producer. I I wanted Jerry Wexler 1:28:58.080 --> 1:29:02.360 or Ralph Warnaker. Those two were the guys that I liked, 1:29:02.439 --> 1:29:05.920 or maybe even Tom Dowd. Although Tom Dowd's record of 1:29:05.960 --> 1:29:09.000 Atlantic Crossing was a little bit too mainstream for me, 1:29:09.080 --> 1:29:11.680 you know, I didn't although I'd heard, of course what 1:29:11.760 --> 1:29:14.479 he'd done with A. Wretha and all of those, you know, 1:29:14.680 --> 1:29:17.320 those great acts that the Allman Brothers and everything Tom 1:29:17.640 --> 1:29:22.200 had done, you know. Um, but Adam just came back 1:29:22.240 --> 1:29:25.040 and he went and did all the meetings, and he 1:29:25.120 --> 1:29:28.240 came back and said, look, I don't nobody's interested, only 1:29:28.360 --> 1:29:34.080 Richard Perry. When Richard Perry, Um, okay. Richard Perry is 1:29:34.080 --> 1:29:39.400 a very glossy producer. You know, he makes very sophisticated records. 1:29:40.479 --> 1:29:44.080 He makes records are almost a pedantic And the only 1:29:44.080 --> 1:29:47.880 one I really like is the Neilson Schmilsen album Schmilsen 1:29:47.960 --> 1:29:49.920 in the Night, you know, the orchestral one which is 1:29:50.120 --> 1:29:52.200 which is glorious, which they made a movie off, you know, 1:29:52.280 --> 1:29:56.599 and the video is fabulous, and I don't know something 1:29:56.640 --> 1:29:59.640 about that record, and of course Harry's great talent, you know. 1:30:01.400 --> 1:30:03.040 I thought that that was pretty good. But I didn't 1:30:03.080 --> 1:30:05.400 like his record without Gulf Uncle, and I didn't like 1:30:05.600 --> 1:30:09.759 his record with Barbara Streisand and Martha and Martha reeves 1:30:10.000 --> 1:30:12.800 Na not very much. So I went in there kind 1:30:12.800 --> 1:30:17.120 of thinking is this all there is? But Adam had 1:30:17.320 --> 1:30:20.920 very carefully shoehorned me into working with Richard. Richard had 1:30:20.960 --> 1:30:23.560 seen me apparently play at the Trouper Door when I 1:30:23.600 --> 1:30:27.320 went there in and fell in love with the act 1:30:27.439 --> 1:30:30.840 and just wanted to produce me. So he'd been badgering 1:30:32.280 --> 1:30:35.240 Adam to get to get get me together with him. 1:30:36.000 --> 1:30:40.360 So we met up and I didn't take to Richard 1:30:40.640 --> 1:30:45.400 very well at first. He was a crazy guy. There 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:48.880 are a lot of drugs around. It wasn't my kind 1:30:48.880 --> 1:30:52.160 of scene, you know. And I wanted to do my 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:54.760 own songs. I mean, that's all I did was I 1:30:54.880 --> 1:30:57.720 was a singer songwriter. And he turned around me and said, 1:30:57.760 --> 1:31:00.840 I don't completely hear I don't like your last album, 1:31:00.960 --> 1:31:03.959 and I don't I don't hear you just as a songwriter. 1:31:04.080 --> 1:31:06.639 In fact, I think your voice is the best quality 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:11.040 you've got. I went, what so he said, let's find 1:31:11.120 --> 1:31:15.559 some covers. And I'm in this situation where I'm kind 1:31:15.560 --> 1:31:17.680 of thinking this is I'm going to pack this all 1:31:17.800 --> 1:31:21.040 up and go home. This isn't working. But we both 1:31:21.080 --> 1:31:25.200 agreed that we like motown and soul music. So we 1:31:25.360 --> 1:31:28.040 ended up going into the studio and cutting Tears of 1:31:28.080 --> 1:31:36.240 a Clown Um Reflections the Supremes Um what becomes the 1:31:36.320 --> 1:31:41.800 broken Hearted? I believe um. And it was a fantastic 1:31:41.920 --> 1:31:45.400 session because he brought in the best musicians. Wow, the 1:31:45.520 --> 1:31:48.960 a team, you know, I mean really Larry Carleton and 1:31:49.040 --> 1:31:53.600 all this great Mike o'mardian on piano, Wow, you know, 1:31:54.520 --> 1:31:57.280 Jeff Picaro on drums, Will he Weeks on bass. You know, 1:31:57.800 --> 1:32:00.560 there's an incredible band. The vibe was great. All the 1:32:00.640 --> 1:32:03.000 guys loved me, and I loved working with the band, 1:32:03.120 --> 1:32:06.280 so you know, jamming with them was was a pleasure. 1:32:06.439 --> 1:32:08.040 And then every now and then we just had to 1:32:08.439 --> 1:32:12.200 serious up and do a song for Richard uh And 1:32:12.280 --> 1:32:14.160 I think there was potential, you know, I saw the 1:32:14.200 --> 1:32:16.439 potential like I saw that I could hold my own 1:32:16.760 --> 1:32:19.720 with great musicians. You know, afterwards, I'm out drinking with 1:32:19.800 --> 1:32:22.200 all the guys, and Willie's coming around to my house. 1:32:22.240 --> 1:32:24.840 Come on, car let's just do some Hendricks. Let's jam, 1:32:25.040 --> 1:32:27.479 you know, and I'm thinking ship. These guys are now 1:32:27.600 --> 1:32:30.800 my friends. So the whole project kind of took me over, 1:32:30.960 --> 1:32:36.040 as it were, and we started off. You know, I'm 1:32:36.120 --> 1:32:38.320 semi happy because I want to do my own songs. 1:32:38.360 --> 1:32:40.800 I keep playing songs are Richard when he keeps nah, 1:32:41.160 --> 1:32:43.840 I don't see that. A bit too British, you know, 1:32:44.000 --> 1:32:48.920 all that stuff. And one day we're jamming in the 1:32:49.040 --> 1:32:52.760 studio in between takes for When I Need You, which 1:32:52.800 --> 1:32:54.599 we've been working on, you know, to get this song 1:32:54.680 --> 1:32:58.160 good by Albert Hammond and Carol Baya saga, lovely song. 1:32:58.880 --> 1:33:02.439 Um And and I'm I don't know, I'm just having 1:33:02.520 --> 1:33:07.479 fun because Jeff Picaro and I used to we lived 1:33:07.520 --> 1:33:09.400 just around the corner. He was in Kirkwood Avenue and 1:33:09.439 --> 1:33:12.240 I was on the corner of Kirkwood and Laurel, opposite 1:33:12.240 --> 1:33:14.920 the County Store. You know that that spot, of course, 1:33:15.360 --> 1:33:19.040 um and I was renting this house right on the corner, 1:33:19.800 --> 1:33:22.720 and and he and I used to He used to 1:33:22.800 --> 1:33:25.040 pass my house and he took his horn as he 1:33:25.160 --> 1:33:28.599 came by in his corvette. And then I didn't drive 1:33:28.640 --> 1:33:31.600 at the time. My driver, David would be ready driving me. 1:33:31.720 --> 1:33:34.639 And we're traveling together, you know, pretty much in convoy 1:33:34.680 --> 1:33:38.880 down the Melrose Avenue to Studio fifty five o five 1:33:38.960 --> 1:33:46.240 on Melrose. Now now, now, um, what do you call it? Um? Uh? 1:33:47.240 --> 1:33:51.960 What's that studio? Paramounts Now, Paramounts parking lot. Unfortunately it's 1:33:52.000 --> 1:33:56.000 not a studio any longer. And and on the way, 1:33:56.120 --> 1:33:58.559 you know, we'd listened to music and Jeff turned around 1:33:58.560 --> 1:33:59.960 it to me and said, hey, did you hear that's 1:34:00.040 --> 1:34:02.360 song today? I said, you want that? That one with 1:34:02.439 --> 1:34:04.600 that high singer. I said, yes, things just like you. 1:34:05.160 --> 1:34:09.000 Shame shame, shame by Shirley and Company. And I started 1:34:09.120 --> 1:34:11.200 singing it in the studio and just playing the drums 1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:15.320 and shame, shame, shame, shame on you because you can't 1:34:15.360 --> 1:34:18.040 dance too, you know, with the falsetto, which I always 1:34:18.120 --> 1:34:20.840 had this great falsetto from being a choir boy, you know. 1:34:21.600 --> 1:34:24.120 And and we start jamming. Now the rest of guys 1:34:24.200 --> 1:34:27.160 pick up on it. Dump dump the Ray Parker Jr. 1:34:27.280 --> 1:34:30.720 Is playing guitar. Groovy guy groovy guy. He's playing this 1:34:30.840 --> 1:34:34.639 incredible rhythm guitar and I start, you get acute way 1:34:34.720 --> 1:34:38.280 of talking, and it's just a jam. It's going on 1:34:38.400 --> 1:34:42.400 for about fifteen minutes, and I'm unknown to us. I mean, 1:34:42.800 --> 1:34:45.360 you know, Richard, it was a change tapes moment in 1:34:45.400 --> 1:34:48.519 the studio, track real to real. So you know you've 1:34:48.520 --> 1:34:50.679 got to wait till the next tape is on. Line 1:34:50.720 --> 1:34:53.519 it up and then you can carry on recording. But 1:34:53.720 --> 1:34:55.920 Richard had kind of I was I was thinking, he's 1:34:55.960 --> 1:34:57.920 letting us go a long time, you know, before he 1:34:58.360 --> 1:35:02.639 come on, guys, let's go back to the track. He's 1:35:02.680 --> 1:35:05.720 going on a long time before this this eventuality. And 1:35:05.800 --> 1:35:09.040 of course in the studio, meanwhile, Howard Steele the engineers 1:35:09.080 --> 1:35:11.920 telling me, He's saying, this is great. Get that tape off, 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:15.200 put a fresh one on, you know, start recording now 1:35:15.560 --> 1:35:17.760 now now get this. Don't lose it. Don't lose it. 1:35:18.400 --> 1:35:21.000 And we didn't know all this because in the end 1:35:21.040 --> 1:35:23.639 he just turned around to us. Okay, guys, very nice, 1:35:23.680 --> 1:35:25.960 but let's get on. We've got to cut this track today. 1:35:26.240 --> 1:35:29.639 Come on, time as money, guys, you know, we carry 1:35:29.680 --> 1:35:33.519 on with recording when I need you. About two weeks later, 1:35:34.120 --> 1:35:36.240 he calls me up to his office and he's made 1:35:36.280 --> 1:35:39.719 put it onto a cassette and this jam session. He said, 1:35:39.960 --> 1:35:44.880 that is your hit, he said, on my life. I say, 1:35:45.400 --> 1:35:48.000 it's one of the biggest things I've ever heard. That 1:35:48.280 --> 1:35:52.240 is your hit. You know how we got to get 1:35:52.280 --> 1:35:55.800 a chorus, We've got to finish this thing. But that, 1:35:55.960 --> 1:35:58.840 he said, is a crossover hit. He said. And the 1:35:58.960 --> 1:36:02.000 year before we've had Staying Alive, you know, the oh 1:36:02.040 --> 1:36:06.240 no no jive talking, the bigs jive talking and you 1:36:06.320 --> 1:36:09.320 know which a Reef Martine record produced, you know, with 1:36:09.439 --> 1:36:13.080 the bags, and he said, that is your jive talking. 1:36:13.160 --> 1:36:18.120 He said, that thing is gonna It's incredible. I can 1:36:18.240 --> 1:36:21.160 really do something with this. So there was a guy 1:36:21.200 --> 1:36:25.800 called Vinnie Pancier who was producer and co writer with 1:36:25.920 --> 1:36:29.120 a lot of people work with Ringo Star on the 1:36:29.240 --> 1:36:34.040 records that Richard did with Ringo Star and and we 1:36:34.200 --> 1:36:37.559 called Richard called him in. He had a bad back. 1:36:37.600 --> 1:36:41.120 I remember he had some major problem where I've got 1:36:41.200 --> 1:36:43.040 to go and see my car practical Leo. You know 1:36:43.120 --> 1:36:45.840 all this American stuff that I didn't admit. This little 1:36:45.840 --> 1:36:49.560 British guy didn't understand the pedantry of it all. You know, 1:36:51.560 --> 1:36:54.200 Richard's got to get his joints rolled just so you know, 1:36:54.400 --> 1:36:58.320 And and everybody's got these, you know, the chair and 1:36:58.400 --> 1:37:00.920 the studio is not right. I'm we have to take 1:37:00.920 --> 1:37:02.840 a day off so I can go shopping for chairs. 1:37:03.520 --> 1:37:05.160 These are the guys I'm working well. I just want 1:37:05.160 --> 1:37:07.240 to get on with this fucking record that I've has, 1:37:07.280 --> 1:37:12.720 costing me a fortune. So we have five minutes to work, 1:37:12.800 --> 1:37:14.760 and we managed to kind of take it up to 1:37:14.800 --> 1:37:17.720 another key and we have the chorus, put it on 1:37:17.800 --> 1:37:21.040 the cassette, joined the two together and we've got a song. 1:37:22.240 --> 1:37:25.679 So next thing that happens is, I don't know. There's 1:37:25.680 --> 1:37:28.599 a call from Donald Fagan, who we both knew pretty well. 1:37:29.280 --> 1:37:31.360 He's got a great band that's come down from New York, 1:37:31.439 --> 1:37:34.519 but he's got a rights block. He's got nothing to record. 1:37:34.560 --> 1:37:37.280 And Bill Schnay, his engineer who's sometimes engineered with us, 1:37:38.320 --> 1:37:42.599 has got producers workshop his own boutique studio up there 1:37:43.040 --> 1:37:46.400 with Chuck Rainey in town and Michael and Mardian and 1:37:47.240 --> 1:37:50.599 Larry Carlton and Steve Gadd has come down with Chuck 1:37:50.720 --> 1:37:53.880 Rainey from New York and he says, you've got this 1:37:53.960 --> 1:37:57.200 band is incredible. Donald's got nothing to record today? Do 1:37:57.240 --> 1:38:00.160 you want to come in? And Richard said, I think 1:38:00.200 --> 1:38:02.000 I've got the tune for that. So we went in 1:38:02.800 --> 1:38:05.920 and he brought it, brought in his reel to reel. 1:38:06.000 --> 1:38:08.360 There were two machines going and they were spinning the 1:38:08.439 --> 1:38:13.000 two two reels together and dubbing onto Steve Gad's drums 1:38:13.080 --> 1:38:15.080 onto that. You know, I don't know how that worked, 1:38:15.160 --> 1:38:18.720 but the band is all, you know, playing and I 1:38:18.840 --> 1:38:21.240 don't know somehow out of it. We just Steve had 1:38:21.280 --> 1:38:24.960 this incredible drag drag snare field which is famous for 1:38:25.600 --> 1:38:29.200 you know, He's playing away um and Bills recording it 1:38:29.280 --> 1:38:32.960 all and Richard's over the moon and and I'm singing 1:38:33.120 --> 1:38:35.760 next door to to Steve, and Steve and I are 1:38:35.760 --> 1:38:38.400 getting on like an absolute house on fire with all 1:38:38.400 --> 1:38:42.240 the musicians, you know, and and we come out of it. 1:38:42.360 --> 1:38:44.679 We've got you made me feel like dancing, And there's 1:38:44.680 --> 1:38:47.960 still a little bit more time to go. So Richard says, 1:38:48.000 --> 1:38:50.000 can we do another track? And Bill says, he, I 1:38:50.040 --> 1:38:52.320 don't know, you know, what do you got? They play 1:38:52.479 --> 1:38:55.840 how Much Love? And the guys just say yeah. Actually, 1:38:55.960 --> 1:38:58.479 Richard t was was came down from New York and 1:38:58.560 --> 1:39:01.160 he hears it and it said, I was complete, bang 1:39:01.200 --> 1:39:04.840 out gospel tune, you know for for piano. Anyway, I've 1:39:04.880 --> 1:39:07.080 written it with Barry Mann who wrote he Lost that 1:39:07.160 --> 1:39:09.879 love and feeling, you know. So it was a fantastic 1:39:09.960 --> 1:39:14.000 little tune. Um. So Richard's on piano, and yeah, we 1:39:14.080 --> 1:39:16.120 got that done in an hour or half an hour. 1:39:16.720 --> 1:39:18.639 So we came out of that studio with a three 1:39:18.720 --> 1:39:28.519 hour session with two songs, two hits. So you have 1:39:28.800 --> 1:39:32.360 this great success with Richard, you continue to work with Richard, 1:39:32.880 --> 1:39:35.120 how do you break off with Richard? They didn't want 1:39:35.120 --> 1:39:37.960 to do it any longer. I mean, he just he 1:39:38.080 --> 1:39:41.600 wanted to move on. Also, he was very expensive. I 1:39:41.680 --> 1:39:43.760 think that that was a you know a problem with 1:39:43.920 --> 1:39:46.800 for Adam. Although we were getting great success all around 1:39:46.840 --> 1:39:49.120 the world. That you know, when you've got records and 1:39:49.160 --> 1:39:51.599 the producers taking twelve percent of the record as well, 1:39:52.240 --> 1:39:56.240 that was his fee. You know, he would take a 1:39:56.320 --> 1:39:59.680 long time to make records, a lot of editing. Uh, 1:40:01.120 --> 1:40:03.840 It's just it's something that we couldn't sustain. I think 1:40:04.000 --> 1:40:07.080 either side, he wanted to move on to other things 1:40:07.160 --> 1:40:10.240 as well. You know, he had a chance to um 1:40:11.080 --> 1:40:14.000 Make Records, also started his own label. I think he 1:40:14.120 --> 1:40:16.960 started recording the Point of Sisters and he had his 1:40:17.040 --> 1:40:20.920 own label. He had his He moved to two Planet Records. Yeah, 1:40:21.000 --> 1:40:25.680 he moved. He put an office in Hollywood Sunset Boulevard, 1:40:25.760 --> 1:40:28.839 and you know, he wanted to go in a different direction. 1:40:29.040 --> 1:40:32.240 I think he wanted I think when maybe we couldn't 1:40:32.240 --> 1:40:34.840 pay him enough, you know, so he wanted to kind 1:40:34.840 --> 1:40:37.559 of like, you know, get people who would pay him more. 1:40:37.720 --> 1:40:40.080 You know, he was very money oriented, Richard. And so 1:40:40.200 --> 1:40:42.280 then you go back with David Courtney while I was 1:40:42.320 --> 1:40:45.640 still in l A, you know, and I was now 1:40:45.800 --> 1:40:49.400 enjoying living in l A. And you know, the lovely 1:40:49.439 --> 1:40:51.600 thing about records is that you always kind of like 1:40:52.040 --> 1:40:55.479 reap the success a year or two years after you've recorded. 1:40:56.160 --> 1:41:00.960 So nineteen seventy nine, I'm still living off it. You know. 1:41:01.479 --> 1:41:05.439 I've got a great last record we made, just called 1:41:05.520 --> 1:41:07.680 Leo said, because nobody could think of a title. But 1:41:07.760 --> 1:41:10.040 we've got Raining in my Heart on there and a 1:41:10.160 --> 1:41:12.600 hit in the UK, I Can't Stop Loving You, a 1:41:12.680 --> 1:41:16.040 song by this lovely guy, Billy Nichols that has really 1:41:16.080 --> 1:41:18.760 been a big hit there. And so we had a 1:41:18.800 --> 1:41:21.720 fine record, you know, to to live off. And I'm 1:41:21.800 --> 1:41:26.040 touring and David turns up again. He's living in l A. 1:41:27.200 --> 1:41:29.679 We're all talking again and becoming friends again. He comes 1:41:29.680 --> 1:41:32.240 to a few shows. He says, look, I'd love to 1:41:32.320 --> 1:41:35.880 produce you again. And I said, well, you know, you'll 1:41:35.880 --> 1:41:37.519 have to square it with Adam. He said, no, Adam 1:41:37.600 --> 1:41:40.479 thinks it's a good idea. And by this time David's 1:41:40.520 --> 1:41:43.439 done quite a few records as a producer, and he's 1:41:43.560 --> 1:41:46.519 very in with Duc Dunn and Steve Cropper and all 1:41:46.600 --> 1:41:49.160 these guys. He knows all the guys I worked with 1:41:49.240 --> 1:41:51.600 as well. He hadn't worked with Jeff Acaro. But I 1:41:51.720 --> 1:41:55.000 brought Jeff in and Steve, Luca Thur and a few 1:41:55.040 --> 1:41:59.519 guys from my sort of side in Michael Amardian as well, 1:41:59.720 --> 1:42:05.479 you know, um uh and and we just we just 1:42:05.520 --> 1:42:09.479 suddenly got recording. We went to Sunset Sound and recorded 1:42:09.560 --> 1:42:13.920 here very quickly. U Umberto Gatica was the engineer who 1:42:14.320 --> 1:42:17.200 famous Engineer later on was one of his first ever 1:42:17.280 --> 1:42:20.960 records he cut. But he was amazing, and you know, 1:42:21.080 --> 1:42:24.679 we had a fantastic team. I brought in Billy Payne 1:42:25.640 --> 1:42:30.000 to play keyboards, who was who I loved working with 1:42:30.040 --> 1:42:32.040 because I used to jam with him and Lowell George 1:42:32.080 --> 1:42:35.200 all the time, you know, up in the canyons. And 1:42:35.600 --> 1:42:37.599 so I asked Billy if he'd be like he said, yeah, 1:42:37.600 --> 1:42:41.080 I love to man, you know. So David Lindley, we 1:42:41.160 --> 1:42:45.960 brought him pedal steel guitar, you know, and so we 1:42:46.080 --> 1:42:50.120 made a fantastic record. But I don't know why the 1:42:50.200 --> 1:42:54.080 record company wasn't really, I mean, they know. I suppose 1:42:54.120 --> 1:42:57.160 they'd spend a lot of money on the Richard Perry projects, 1:42:57.479 --> 1:43:02.240 you know, because Richard was very demanding producer director type, 1:43:02.320 --> 1:43:05.160 you know. Uh, and now David was a bit softer, 1:43:05.400 --> 1:43:07.679 so I think a little bit less money got spent 1:43:07.800 --> 1:43:10.720 pushing that in a um. I thought it was a 1:43:10.720 --> 1:43:13.080 bloody good record really, So then you go to work 1:43:13.120 --> 1:43:16.120 with Alan Tarney. How does that happen? Well, running out 1:43:16.160 --> 1:43:19.479 of money and to live in America, you know, and 1:43:19.600 --> 1:43:22.519 me and my wife Janice were kind of thinking we 1:43:22.640 --> 1:43:25.400 can't keep this up, you know, it's just crazy. So 1:43:26.200 --> 1:43:29.840 Chris Wright of Chris List Records plays me this song 1:43:30.320 --> 1:43:33.519 by this guy Alan Tarni when I was visiting London. 1:43:34.240 --> 1:43:36.200 He says, you should think about working with this guy, 1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:40.280 and the song was we Don't Talk Anymore Cliff Richard, 1:43:41.040 --> 1:43:42.560 and he says, you know, the great thing about this 1:43:42.600 --> 1:43:44.960 guy he plays everything himself, just him and the drummer, 1:43:46.160 --> 1:43:48.040 and it's got a unique way of working. And I'm 1:43:48.120 --> 1:43:50.280 kind of At this time, I'd started to build my 1:43:50.360 --> 1:43:53.679 own studio and I was going in this direction myself, 1:43:53.760 --> 1:43:57.080 and I was thinking, oh, this is interesting, and he'd 1:43:57.080 --> 1:43:58.600 really love to work with you. So I met with 1:43:58.680 --> 1:44:01.200 Alan Tani and he had a couple of great songs 1:44:01.240 --> 1:44:04.800 that we went straight into the studio and recorded R 1:44:04.880 --> 1:44:09.240 G R G Jones Studio in Wimbledon, and they both 1:44:09.360 --> 1:44:11.720 ended up on the record and we decided to make 1:44:11.720 --> 1:44:14.519 an album from there. You know, we got on really great. 1:44:14.640 --> 1:44:17.120 I loved his technique, just him and me in the room. 1:44:17.720 --> 1:44:21.680 Trevor Spencer would then come in and play drums. One 1:44:21.720 --> 1:44:24.439 of the last things after, you know, we worked off 1:44:24.520 --> 1:44:27.720 one of Trevor's drum loops. At the time, technology was 1:44:27.800 --> 1:44:32.519 in its infancy, but Alan was already mastering computers and 1:44:32.600 --> 1:44:34.600 there was this crazy system where you could put in 1:44:34.720 --> 1:44:37.160 one note at a time and it made a very 1:44:37.240 --> 1:44:41.960 interesting kind of sound. Because we were all discovering sequencing 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:44.519 at the time. You know, there's this way of making 1:44:44.560 --> 1:44:48.439 records lynn drum machines and and and sequences, you know, 1:44:48.600 --> 1:44:52.960 working off computers. And while it was all very metronomic, 1:44:53.080 --> 1:44:56.240 if you put human instruments to it, like guitars and 1:44:56.360 --> 1:44:59.960 bass and vocals, he got a great kind of sweat 1:45:00.320 --> 1:45:02.320 off it. I don't know how to describe it, but 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:05.760 it's it's a fascinating thing, you know, that humanity and 1:45:05.880 --> 1:45:12.760 robots together, virtual AI, early AI, I think. And so 1:45:12.920 --> 1:45:16.080 we made this record and right at the end of it, 1:45:16.360 --> 1:45:20.120 we were we had an extra day of studio time 1:45:20.320 --> 1:45:21.920 and we didn't know what to do with it. So 1:45:22.439 --> 1:45:25.439 we sat around watching TV trying to think of ideas 1:45:25.520 --> 1:45:27.960 we thought would do a cover. You know. First off, 1:45:28.000 --> 1:45:30.320 we had a slowed down version of Don't Be Cruel, 1:45:31.080 --> 1:45:35.519 Don't want to be a Tiger, you know, really slowed 1:45:35.560 --> 1:45:39.080 down like that, you know, Um, no, treat me nice? 1:45:39.200 --> 1:45:40.840 Was it Treat me Nice? And one of those anyway, 1:45:40.840 --> 1:45:44.559 because Tigers played too rough whatever that song is, you know, um, 1:45:45.160 --> 1:45:48.560 so oh, it wasn't going anywhere, you know, And we 1:45:49.120 --> 1:45:51.519 were watching the TV and an ad came on for 1:45:51.600 --> 1:45:56.320 the Greatest Hits of Bobby V and Bobby V made 1:45:56.360 --> 1:45:59.200 an album when Buddy Hollyod died. They were both with 1:45:59.320 --> 1:46:03.280 Coral Records, so the crickets. Coral didn't know what to 1:46:03.320 --> 1:46:06.400 do with the crickets, who are incredibly talented themselves, so 1:46:06.479 --> 1:46:08.479 they put Bobby V Meets the Crickets and made this 1:46:08.560 --> 1:46:12.120 record six and the hit out of that record was 1:46:12.200 --> 1:46:15.000 a song called more Than I Can Say. So, um, 1:46:16.040 --> 1:46:21.240 there it was on the TV. Well, yeah, I loved 1:46:21.280 --> 1:46:24.000 you more Than I Can See, and Alan and I 1:46:24.160 --> 1:46:26.320 both looked at each other. We both loved that song 1:46:26.760 --> 1:46:29.280 in our past, you know, and he said, let's do that. 1:46:30.360 --> 1:46:35.240 So we went in about one o'clock. This one. We 1:46:35.320 --> 1:46:37.439 actually had to rush to a record store to find 1:46:37.479 --> 1:46:40.640 the original record, and those days you couldn't call up 1:46:40.640 --> 1:46:43.759 anything on the internet. Of course, there wasn't an internet. 1:46:44.800 --> 1:46:46.800 So we went to a record store and somebody found 1:46:46.840 --> 1:46:49.400 a shrink rack copy behind the desk and had just 1:46:49.479 --> 1:46:52.320 been reliving only only only just came out Greatest Shits 1:46:52.360 --> 1:46:55.120 of Bobby V. And they're on it. Track eight or 1:46:55.200 --> 1:46:57.760 so is more than I Can Say. So we spin it. 1:46:58.000 --> 1:47:00.920 We kind of get the cords down and you know, 1:47:01.120 --> 1:47:03.479 and we started working on it. We find the right 1:47:03.600 --> 1:47:08.800 key for my voice. Um, and by midnight we've got 1:47:08.880 --> 1:47:15.000 it mixed, finished, ready to go, all the vocals on it, everything, 1:47:15.080 --> 1:47:17.040 and well it wasn't mixed. I mean, we still got 1:47:17.080 --> 1:47:21.519 it mixed, but there it was a great use of 1:47:21.640 --> 1:47:24.920 that extra day that we hadn't calculated. And I ad 1:47:25.080 --> 1:47:27.320 on faith and everybody turned around and said, that is 1:47:27.400 --> 1:47:30.479 your single, you know. So that became the first single, 1:47:30.600 --> 1:47:32.800 more than I can say, the only song on there 1:47:32.800 --> 1:47:35.759 that I didn't write, and there it was. It became 1:47:35.800 --> 1:47:38.360 my comeback hit in America. So that to biget. How 1:47:38.360 --> 1:47:40.320 do you end up working with the Reef? I've made 1:47:40.320 --> 1:47:43.160 a Reef a few times in London and I really 1:47:43.240 --> 1:47:45.560 liked him. I mean we had mutual friends with some 1:47:45.640 --> 1:47:50.000 of the guys with the bigs and and he just 1:47:50.600 --> 1:47:52.960 he was coming into London. I think a Reef was 1:47:53.000 --> 1:47:55.880 trying to find something new, so he was linking up 1:47:55.920 --> 1:47:59.680 with a lot of songwriters there and finding songs, you know, um, 1:48:00.280 --> 1:48:04.320 and I think I think he just kind of I 1:48:04.479 --> 1:48:08.519 was really into British talent at the time, and he 1:48:08.640 --> 1:48:11.559 made a call. I got a call, and so Reef Martin. 1:48:11.800 --> 1:48:13.360 I don't know if you'll know him, of course, I 1:48:13.479 --> 1:48:16.120 know you, and he said, Um, I am in London 1:48:16.760 --> 1:48:20.080 and I am staying at the Mayfair Hotel and I'd 1:48:20.120 --> 1:48:24.080 like to meet up and I said, great, come over, 1:48:24.320 --> 1:48:27.840 he said now. So I went straight over and he said, look, 1:48:27.880 --> 1:48:29.439 I want to make a record with you. I love 1:48:29.520 --> 1:48:33.080 living in a fantasy, love all your records with with Richard. 1:48:33.720 --> 1:48:37.240 You know, Um, could we could we talk about a project? 1:48:37.479 --> 1:48:39.920 And I said, great, Well, I'll get onto the record companies. 1:48:39.920 --> 1:48:42.479 He said, I've already talked to them. And I said, 1:48:42.520 --> 1:48:44.599 I'll get onto Adam. He said, I've already talked to him. 1:48:44.640 --> 1:48:48.280 He said, we're starting now. He said, listen to these songs. 1:48:48.360 --> 1:48:49.960 And so, you know, he played me a load of 1:48:50.040 --> 1:48:52.160 songs and I played him a load of songs that 1:48:52.200 --> 1:48:55.000 I had written, um, some with David Courtney that I 1:48:55.080 --> 1:48:57.680 hadn't got round to recording yet. And he said, I 1:48:57.800 --> 1:49:00.880 think we got an album. So we went to New 1:49:00.960 --> 1:49:04.840 York started recording. Then we went to l A and 1:49:04.960 --> 1:49:09.439 recorded some more. But this was a time when a 1:49:09.520 --> 1:49:14.120 few nefarious things were going on with Adam. Unfortunately. Yeah. 1:49:14.200 --> 1:49:16.000 It was, like I said, he was trying to sort 1:49:16.040 --> 1:49:18.040 of get money out of the record company and money 1:49:18.080 --> 1:49:21.960 wherever he could and for projects that he wanted to do, 1:49:22.160 --> 1:49:24.400 and you know, it was not really there all the 1:49:24.479 --> 1:49:26.960 time as the manager. I was hanging on to him 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:30.479 because I didn't know where else to go. Um And 1:49:31.120 --> 1:49:34.519 when it came to we finished the record and I 1:49:34.600 --> 1:49:36.600 was very proud of it. Barry Gibb wrote us a 1:49:36.680 --> 1:49:41.200 song hard Stop Beating in Time, and there was a 1:49:41.280 --> 1:49:43.679 lovely song by a bunch of guys in England called 1:49:43.720 --> 1:49:45.639 have You Ever Been in Love? We had two major 1:49:45.760 --> 1:49:49.040 signal singles on there. The title track was the song 1:49:49.160 --> 1:49:51.920 David and I wrote David Courtney and I wrote yet 1:49:51.960 --> 1:49:55.719 again called World Radio. So the album was called World Radio. 1:49:55.800 --> 1:49:57.800 We took it to warn us and they said, look, 1:49:57.840 --> 1:50:00.680 we don't have any budget for this. I said, but 1:50:01.439 --> 1:50:04.200 I'm going to be on Solid Gold next week with 1:50:04.360 --> 1:50:08.559 Dion Warwick, you know, co hosting, and I can, I can. 1:50:08.720 --> 1:50:10.800 They want me to sing some of the songs. They said, yeah, 1:50:10.920 --> 1:50:13.120 well good luck with that, but we don't have any 1:50:13.160 --> 1:50:15.439 budget for a single. So I go on this show 1:50:15.520 --> 1:50:17.720 and I sing these two songs and the audience goes mad. 1:50:17.800 --> 1:50:20.479 TV goes mad. In America, everybody loves it and they 1:50:20.520 --> 1:50:25.040 can't buy the single. What can you say it's like 1:50:25.960 --> 1:50:30.280 it's a disaster, It's really it was a really sad moment. 1:50:30.560 --> 1:50:33.040 Who do we blame? Do we blame Adam? Do we 1:50:33.240 --> 1:50:36.760 blame the people who Warner Brothers? Well, one is, weren't 1:50:36.880 --> 1:50:38.680 that easy to get on with at that time. I 1:50:38.720 --> 1:50:40.760 mean I signed to Joe Smith. Joe Smith at this 1:50:40.880 --> 1:50:43.559 time had gone. It was Mo Austin. I mean, Moe 1:50:43.600 --> 1:50:46.320 Austin is the guy that in seven when I got 1:50:46.400 --> 1:50:49.400 my Grammy, turned around to me at the Grammy party 1:50:49.439 --> 1:50:52.000 afterwards and say, hey, Leo Seria or later, you're going 1:50:52.040 --> 1:50:55.560 to win one of these things. So, I mean, he 1:50:55.640 --> 1:50:57.360 didn't even know I had won a Grammy because it 1:50:57.479 --> 1:51:00.120 was so you know, in in raptures over all the 1:51:00.160 --> 1:51:03.880 Fleetwood mac Rumors Grammys at that time. So I had 1:51:03.880 --> 1:51:06.120 a company that was a bit disengaged with me, you 1:51:06.200 --> 1:51:10.200 know in America, and you know, and then when I 1:51:10.280 --> 1:51:12.200 deliver something, they're just thinking of how much it's going 1:51:12.240 --> 1:51:16.680 to cost to sell. You know. I don't think there 1:51:16.760 --> 1:51:19.000 was a I don't think there was anybody really listening 1:51:19.040 --> 1:51:20.880 to the record, you know what I mean. Okay, but 1:51:21.000 --> 1:51:24.080 let's go back to Adam. Now, you believe Adam is 1:51:24.200 --> 1:51:28.519 stealing from you. You ultimately sue Adam. What's going on there? 1:51:28.680 --> 1:51:32.160 Well eventually, yeah, it was a little bit later that 1:51:32.320 --> 1:51:36.439 I managed to extricate myself from all of that. And 1:51:36.920 --> 1:51:39.439 I'm thinking, if I just pack up with Adam, I 1:51:39.479 --> 1:51:41.360 won't get my properties, you know, I won't get my 1:51:41.880 --> 1:51:44.840 my master's, I won't get all the things that I 1:51:44.880 --> 1:51:47.360 should get. Because he had me on a power of 1:51:47.400 --> 1:51:52.360 attorney agreement very early in my career, so I signed 1:51:52.400 --> 1:51:54.720 away everything to him. He could do anything on my 1:51:54.880 --> 1:51:58.200 behalf without me even ever to consult with me. You know. 1:51:58.720 --> 1:52:01.120 So I had my publishing, we had the same accountant, 1:52:01.920 --> 1:52:06.320 we had, he had my record rights, he had everything. 1:52:07.200 --> 1:52:09.360 So to extricate myself from this guy had to be 1:52:09.439 --> 1:52:14.920 done kind of carefully, you know. Um, And eventually I 1:52:15.040 --> 1:52:18.360 think he just gave up. And you know, I I 1:52:18.479 --> 1:52:23.080 got everything back, which was amazing. It's tough, but it 1:52:23.240 --> 1:52:26.679 was I got everything back. Suddenly. I owned my whole catalog, 1:52:26.760 --> 1:52:29.920 owned my all my songs. He just gave me the 1:52:29.960 --> 1:52:33.519 publishing companies. Um, I I owned all the records. He 1:52:33.560 --> 1:52:35.400 gave me the record company that I was signed to, 1:52:36.160 --> 1:52:38.880 I mean production company, record company. You know that. Then 1:52:39.000 --> 1:52:41.639 leases too, of course you know, you know has done 1:52:42.120 --> 1:52:45.240 So I had all those companies. Um, I had all 1:52:45.280 --> 1:52:48.479 those rights, and do you still own them? No? I 1:52:48.600 --> 1:52:51.080 met a guy Hi, I still had a problem with 1:52:51.200 --> 1:52:55.559 Chrysalis Records, where chrys Chrysalis Records in England had paid 1:52:55.600 --> 1:52:58.280 out a very large sum in those days six and 1:52:58.360 --> 1:53:02.080 fifty thousand, who enticed me to do another ten year 1:53:02.160 --> 1:53:07.080 deal with them when ten years ran out in around Yeah, 1:53:07.720 --> 1:53:13.120 so not in three I discovered, even though I extricated 1:53:13.200 --> 1:53:18.800 myself from Adam that I think it was but I 1:53:18.920 --> 1:53:22.080 was still signed to Christlis and under the terms of 1:53:22.160 --> 1:53:25.200 the old deal, which meant I couldn't get anything back 1:53:25.280 --> 1:53:29.639 from them. So I questioned this and I got a lawyer. 1:53:30.120 --> 1:53:32.120 I found a manager in the end who got me 1:53:32.200 --> 1:53:35.360 a lawyer who'd done a lot of great stuff for 1:53:35.439 --> 1:53:40.720 else and John and he he managed to threaten um 1:53:41.760 --> 1:53:48.760 Chris Lis Chris right quite heavily into giving up Um. Yeah, 1:53:48.960 --> 1:53:53.160 those those rights, um and I got free of them. 1:53:54.000 --> 1:53:57.439 But the guy who introduced me to the lawyer turned 1:53:57.439 --> 1:53:59.880 out to be an even bigger crook than Adam was. 1:54:00.840 --> 1:54:04.680 And he just said, Okay, now you've got all your 1:54:04.760 --> 1:54:07.519 rights back, You're really free, get on with your record. 1:54:07.920 --> 1:54:10.640 So I moved to the country in England. I was 1:54:10.960 --> 1:54:14.760 off far away from London all of a sudden, living 1:54:14.800 --> 1:54:19.240 in this beautiful cottage in seventy acres of land or so, 1:54:19.439 --> 1:54:22.720 you know, with the studio there and everything all going 1:54:22.800 --> 1:54:26.640 really well, planning my next record, writing my songs, not 1:54:26.800 --> 1:54:29.240 kind of knowing exactly you know, who I was going 1:54:29.280 --> 1:54:31.840 to work with, but basically getting on with it, you know. 1:54:32.520 --> 1:54:35.480 And in the meanwhile, he was signing away all my 1:54:35.720 --> 1:54:44.120 rights with a forged signature, back to Warners, back to 1:54:44.240 --> 1:54:48.720 Chrysalis now with a label called the Hit Label, signing 1:54:48.720 --> 1:54:54.040 away my publishing rights. It was an absolute mess. I 1:54:54.160 --> 1:54:57.360 broke into its office one day because he changed the 1:54:57.400 --> 1:55:01.400 locks on the keys my office actually, and found out 1:55:01.440 --> 1:55:03.920 that he'd also managed to drum up about a hundred 1:55:03.960 --> 1:55:10.560 and sixty thousand UM pounds on credit cards to take 1:55:10.640 --> 1:55:12.520 his wife on holiday all over the world and do 1:55:12.680 --> 1:55:15.760 things like that. So he was stealing money off me 1:55:16.320 --> 1:55:21.520 with credit cards and yeah, and signing me to deals 1:55:21.600 --> 1:55:23.520 that I couldn't get out of. So today, at this 1:55:23.720 --> 1:55:27.760 late date, you own none of your publishing, none of 1:55:27.840 --> 1:55:30.520 your master recordings. It was very interesting. We came to 1:55:30.960 --> 1:55:33.320 you do remember a lovely guy called Bob Emma. Of course, 1:55:33.840 --> 1:55:37.800 I'm sure. Yeah. Bob and Sue a lovely couple. I 1:55:37.840 --> 1:55:40.200 don't know if Bob's still around, but Bob was a 1:55:40.360 --> 1:55:44.280 beautiful cat and he was with Warner Brothers. Okay, so 1:55:44.440 --> 1:55:46.360 he was one of the old school Warner Brothers guys 1:55:46.400 --> 1:55:51.160 still there. Rusty Ratte and all those guys had long 1:55:51.320 --> 1:55:55.560 long left, you know. Um and Mol Austin's there running 1:55:56.080 --> 1:55:58.720 the show, and his son is there as well. Um 1:55:59.240 --> 1:56:02.480 and Bob is still there, and I don't know. Donna 1:56:02.560 --> 1:56:08.360 Tell a marvelous Donna Teller Pigionetti, my partner, Um, who 1:56:08.400 --> 1:56:10.280 had seen me go through all this rip off. She 1:56:10.400 --> 1:56:12.840 was with me now, the new lady in my life 1:56:12.880 --> 1:56:15.760 as it were. It's starting to get involved in the management. 1:56:15.840 --> 1:56:18.000 She's learning how to manage me, and she's learning how 1:56:18.080 --> 1:56:20.280 to because we're in a ship, you know, we're we're 1:56:20.640 --> 1:56:23.800 almost bankrupt. We had accountants telling us we should far 1:56:23.960 --> 1:56:27.680 for bankruptcy and just give up the business and everything, 1:56:27.760 --> 1:56:30.000 you know, and I'm thinking, no, I can't do that. 1:56:30.920 --> 1:56:35.480 So she heard from somebody in the business that Bob 1:56:35.520 --> 1:56:39.600 Emma was coming into London. So she managed to get 1:56:39.640 --> 1:56:41.280 a meeting with him at the hotel. I don't know 1:56:41.320 --> 1:56:43.480 how she did it, but Bob sat down with him 1:56:43.840 --> 1:56:46.080 and she said, well you know Leo say, and he said, 1:56:46.160 --> 1:56:48.640 I love Leo. And Sue was there as well, and 1:56:48.680 --> 1:56:51.920 they said, oh we lovely or whatever happened to Leo. Well, 1:56:52.040 --> 1:56:56.320 Leo signed back with your label. Really they didn't even know. Um. 1:56:56.680 --> 1:57:00.720 And basically he gets no royalties. He's so his catalog 1:57:00.800 --> 1:57:04.320 to you what. I can't believe Leo would ever do that. 1:57:05.080 --> 1:57:07.400 He I saw a poster. Bob said, you know, he's 1:57:07.440 --> 1:57:12.360 playing here in London. So they're in shock. And Bob 1:57:12.440 --> 1:57:15.600 just says, look, Donna, I'm going to get his royalties back. 1:57:16.080 --> 1:57:19.200 So and he did. He got a deal I couldn't 1:57:19.240 --> 1:57:21.520 get out of Warners. I'm still with Warner in Australia 1:57:21.560 --> 1:57:24.240 and still with Warner in America via Rhino. I'm not 1:57:24.360 --> 1:57:27.400 very happy about it because they never do a damn thing. Um, 1:57:27.680 --> 1:57:32.440 they never released anything. They're just you know, but they're 1:57:32.480 --> 1:57:35.000 just holding onto me. They hold onto those those rights 1:57:35.080 --> 1:57:38.840 over the last records. If I had enough money, i'd 1:57:38.920 --> 1:57:41.040 be out of there. But I'd have to buy my 1:57:41.160 --> 1:57:45.120 way out, you know, so um so. But we managed 1:57:45.120 --> 1:57:48.240 to get royalties again. We got you know, suddenly, we 1:57:48.320 --> 1:57:50.400 didn't get back royalties of course in the time that 1:57:50.920 --> 1:57:54.320 Lynch had stolen them all. But this guy, Michael Lynch, 1:57:54.400 --> 1:57:56.840 that's what that's what his name was, the crook who 1:57:57.240 --> 1:58:00.360 forged my signature. But we managed to we managed to 1:58:00.400 --> 1:58:02.880 kind of get that back, and then gradually, of course 1:58:03.400 --> 1:58:08.200 we got um we got an arrangement with Universal as well, 1:58:08.240 --> 1:58:10.880 where he'd sold the songs to them, and we got 1:58:10.920 --> 1:58:14.400 back publishing rights for them. They sold Universal sold off 1:58:14.720 --> 1:58:17.160 to another company anyway, who look after it now? And 1:58:17.640 --> 1:58:21.400 you know, the royalties are all pretty intact and since then, 1:58:21.640 --> 1:58:24.360 I mean, you know, the guys I've been approached with 1:58:24.640 --> 1:58:28.640 Pride By, I was approached by Primary Wave, and I 1:58:28.720 --> 1:58:30.960 was approached by quite a few people. I had a 1:58:31.560 --> 1:58:35.000 very good friend down here, a wonderful music business lawyer here, 1:58:35.520 --> 1:58:39.040 a friend who who went to Primary Wave and represented me, 1:58:39.800 --> 1:58:43.760 and and now I share my catalog and royalties um 1:58:44.920 --> 1:58:48.680 with Primary Wave, basically my earnings. Okay, just so I understand, 1:58:48.960 --> 1:58:52.040 you don't own the records, you don't own the publishing, 1:58:52.720 --> 1:58:57.440 but your writer's share and your royalties are now with 1:58:57.600 --> 1:59:00.400 primary works. Yeah, split with me with still of about 1:59:00.480 --> 1:59:02.440 my company. And did you get a good check to 1:59:02.600 --> 1:59:06.560 do that? Very very nice? Thank you. Okay, I've probably 1:59:06.600 --> 1:59:09.160 sworn to secrecy over the over the amount, but it's 1:59:09.400 --> 1:59:11.240 it's made life a little bit easier. You know. We've 1:59:11.240 --> 1:59:13.440 paid off the mortgage of the house and all this 1:59:13.560 --> 1:59:16.280 sort of stuff. You know. Okay, So now financially, how 1:59:16.360 --> 1:59:19.240 are you doing? Yeah? Very good, very good. Okay, yeah, 1:59:19.360 --> 1:59:21.480 very good. I mean I'm not in the wealth category 1:59:21.560 --> 1:59:25.360 that I should be in where, you know, along with 1:59:25.480 --> 1:59:27.840 most of our contemporaries for what I've done, and I 1:59:27.880 --> 1:59:31.440 suppose I can't really choose, you know, if I wanted to, 1:59:32.840 --> 1:59:36.440 if I wanted to, say, play Glastonbury, I don't really 1:59:36.520 --> 1:59:38.720 have the kind of people behind me who could push 1:59:38.800 --> 1:59:43.040 that because I can't really afford to hire pr and 1:59:43.160 --> 1:59:46.400 promotion teams. You know, I'd love to be able to, 1:59:46.600 --> 1:59:50.160 but I work very independently because I work within my budget. 1:59:50.600 --> 1:59:53.600 You know. So let's go Bakistan. What happened with your 1:59:53.720 --> 1:59:56.080 first wife? We divorced. She got fed up with being 1:59:56.200 --> 1:59:59.680 Mrs Sayer I think, and she was she was going 1:59:59.760 --> 2:00:03.560 for a tough time, and you know, we we split. 2:00:03.800 --> 2:00:05.720 That was it? And how was that for you? I 2:00:05.800 --> 2:00:08.320 promised never to speak to her again. We promised to, 2:00:08.800 --> 2:00:11.120 you know, to to not contact each other. What was 2:00:11.160 --> 2:00:13.840 the basis, what was the inspiration for that? She wanted 2:00:13.880 --> 2:00:16.280 to go back to her maiden name and have a 2:00:16.360 --> 2:00:19.880 new life and not be Mrs Sarah any longer, you know, 2:00:20.000 --> 2:00:23.120 because it's a tough thing for the women when you know, 2:00:23.360 --> 2:00:25.920 we go to American or business meetings, you know, and 2:00:26.000 --> 2:00:28.760 they say, hey, Leo, nice of me. I said, this 2:00:28.840 --> 2:00:31.520 is Janey's my wife, and they say hi, Hi jan anyway, Leo, 2:00:32.560 --> 2:00:35.120 and you know, you're just She's She was a very 2:00:35.160 --> 2:00:37.320 intelligent girl, and she didn't like that, you know, she 2:00:37.400 --> 2:00:39.920 didn't like that she couldn't get the respect. It's a 2:00:40.000 --> 2:00:44.520 man's world, isn't it, you know, and still very much 2:00:46.040 --> 2:00:49.480 yeah so so so she needed a change, and she'd 2:00:49.520 --> 2:00:54.560 been incredibly supportive of me in the time we were together. Also, 2:00:54.720 --> 2:00:56.640 you know, I must say that I had met Donna 2:00:56.760 --> 2:01:01.400 at this time and also was those you know, lining 2:01:01.480 --> 2:01:03.880 myself up for a new life, you know, with with 2:01:04.000 --> 2:01:08.360 Donna teller Um, which happened by chance. I mean, Janis 2:01:08.400 --> 2:01:10.080 and I were going through a bad period you know, 2:01:10.200 --> 2:01:13.680 these things happen, you meet somebody else and there it went. 2:01:13.880 --> 2:01:15.600 But I'm glad to say I'm still with Donna and 2:01:15.760 --> 2:01:18.280 very faithful now, you know. And that's been thirty six 2:01:18.440 --> 2:01:22.120 years or so we've been together. Okay, so you ever 2:01:22.240 --> 2:01:24.880 want to have children or that was something? No, it 2:01:25.000 --> 2:01:27.440 never came into the equation. I mean, Jannis didn't want 2:01:27.480 --> 2:01:30.480 them when we were together, and we would rather travel 2:01:30.600 --> 2:01:33.920 than spend the time to make babies. So that was 2:01:34.000 --> 2:01:36.200 the choice. And I think, you know, leaving that behind 2:01:36.360 --> 2:01:42.600 then and going into now. Um, I don't know. I've 2:01:42.640 --> 2:01:48.080 always been this very unusual operator. I'm very much, you know, 2:01:48.360 --> 2:01:52.919 an insular person working within myself. So I suppose really siblings. 2:01:52.960 --> 2:01:55.760 I never even thought about it. You know. I'm lucky 2:01:55.840 --> 2:01:57.440 that I've had women in my life have been very 2:01:57.480 --> 2:02:03.400 supportive to my lifestyle. Um, but basically I think the 2:02:03.440 --> 2:02:07.240 buck always stops with me, you know. That's so that's it. Okay, 2:02:07.400 --> 2:02:11.320 let's go back. You're working with Richard than David Courtney 2:02:11.360 --> 2:02:14.000 again and Alan Tarney. You have some success, you're working 2:02:14.080 --> 2:02:17.280 with our reef. You realize you're being ripped off, like 2:02:17.480 --> 2:02:20.200 the story you're telling with Warner brothers where they're not 2:02:20.240 --> 2:02:23.040 going to commit even though you're on solid gold. What's 2:02:23.080 --> 2:02:26.400 it like to all of a sudden realize you had 2:02:26.480 --> 2:02:30.480 your time, but you're not the priority anymore. And it's 2:02:30.520 --> 2:02:33.320 a really good question, but you know how this business works. 2:02:34.160 --> 2:02:36.680 You know, one minute you're thinking about that, going oh God, 2:02:36.760 --> 2:02:38.480 and you're talking to Janis and you said we've got 2:02:38.560 --> 2:02:41.080 to go home. Then the next minute the phone rings 2:02:41.240 --> 2:02:44.640 and you're on Midnight Special. What do you say? You know? 2:02:44.760 --> 2:02:47.520 I mean, I'm a very g garious guy. Everybody seems 2:02:47.560 --> 2:02:49.920 to like me. All the musicians that have worked with 2:02:50.640 --> 2:02:52.840 still my best friends. I talked to rape Harker, I 2:02:52.920 --> 2:02:55.520 talked to you all these guys all the time, and 2:02:55.720 --> 2:02:59.240 we're all friends and we you know, I'm a guy 2:02:59.280 --> 2:03:03.360 who just looks for the positives so very stupidly. I 2:03:03.360 --> 2:03:05.240 wouldn't have put my books in order. I'd have just 2:03:05.320 --> 2:03:07.640 cracked on. I mean, many other people, I think Bob 2:03:07.680 --> 2:03:09.480 would have just stopped and said, right, you've got to 2:03:09.520 --> 2:03:12.360 sort this out now. But I never did. I didn't 2:03:12.360 --> 2:03:14.720 do until it was too late. And then when I 2:03:14.840 --> 2:03:18.080 did sort things out and took on a different mindset 2:03:18.160 --> 2:03:22.000 with it all, I think that I would by this 2:03:22.200 --> 2:03:28.400 time had stated my case enough, you know, recording wise 2:03:28.440 --> 2:03:31.320 and live wise, that I had a real legacy that 2:03:31.400 --> 2:03:33.520 I could take a break from for a bit, you know, 2:03:33.640 --> 2:03:36.400 and sort out the business side. But I think when 2:03:36.440 --> 2:03:38.520 all that was going on, I was still kind of 2:03:38.680 --> 2:03:42.400 like feeling that I was half proven, you know, and 2:03:42.480 --> 2:03:44.480 there was still a lot of work to be done. 2:03:45.720 --> 2:03:47.520 I mean, you're only as good as your records, you know, 2:03:47.760 --> 2:03:49.680 and you're only as good as your last live show. 2:03:50.560 --> 2:03:53.000 So I was feeling at that time that I still 2:03:53.120 --> 2:03:55.760 had to stay on the case and do the job. 2:03:56.640 --> 2:03:59.080 You know. Don't complain about these things. You're living. Well, 2:03:59.520 --> 2:04:01.760 it's okay. So how do you feel about your legacy 2:04:01.840 --> 2:04:03.760 at this moment in time? Proud of all of it, 2:04:03.880 --> 2:04:06.600 even the mistakes. I like the whole way it fits together, 2:04:06.840 --> 2:04:09.680 and I like being this kind of slightly obscure artist 2:04:09.800 --> 2:04:12.920 as well. I mean, I'm not on everybody's lips, and 2:04:13.240 --> 2:04:16.800 I'm not um, you know, I'm not headline in Glassberry 2:04:16.880 --> 2:04:19.720 or Paying Maids and Square Gardens, where I think I 2:04:19.760 --> 2:04:22.040 should be. Part of me thinks I should be. But 2:04:23.120 --> 2:04:24.960 but I've still got a lot to you know, there's 2:04:24.960 --> 2:04:29.440 still a lot of leeway for things to come, and 2:04:29.560 --> 2:04:32.720 I kind of like that. I'm still hungry, I'm still ambitious. 2:04:33.480 --> 2:04:35.640 I don't know why I'm seventy four in May. I mean, 2:04:36.640 --> 2:04:39.520 I can't really be looking at another fifty years, So 2:04:40.360 --> 2:04:43.920 what what where do you go from here? But I'm 2:04:43.960 --> 2:04:46.000 having a ball at the moment. I'm really enjoying it. 2:04:46.160 --> 2:04:49.080 I'm joining the legacy, writing my book and doing all 2:04:49.120 --> 2:04:51.720 the research and finding out that I've I've done more 2:04:51.800 --> 2:04:54.960 than I thought, you know, achieve more because I've always 2:04:54.960 --> 2:04:57.880 been looking at the ball right, you know, in player 2:04:58.000 --> 2:05:00.600 that at the moment rather than looking back very much. 2:05:00.880 --> 2:05:03.440 Can you get a victory lap? Can you get a 2:05:03.560 --> 2:05:06.600 manager or somebody involved who will get you on the 2:05:06.720 --> 2:05:10.560 stage in Glastonbury, will get you one more time around 2:05:10.680 --> 2:05:13.120 because you still have your voice and you have all 2:05:13.160 --> 2:05:16.680 those hits? Well, who knows? Who knows? I mean the 2:05:16.760 --> 2:05:20.200 only problem is that most people in this in this game, 2:05:20.240 --> 2:05:25.680 at this moment, have such a vested interest in everything 2:05:25.760 --> 2:05:28.080 that they do or want to have vested interests. I mean, 2:05:28.760 --> 2:05:32.120 it's all about money now, you know, the business has changed. 2:05:32.880 --> 2:05:35.440 So what's the manager going to do with Leo Saya? 2:05:36.200 --> 2:05:38.160 He's going to want to make as much money before 2:05:38.160 --> 2:05:41.320 the guy has a heart attack and kills over. He's 2:05:41.400 --> 2:05:45.600 gonna want because he's used to getting it from young acts. 2:05:45.920 --> 2:05:49.000 He's gonna want everything. He's gonna want total ownership. So 2:05:49.080 --> 2:05:51.840 where do I go? Who do I go to? That's 2:05:51.880 --> 2:05:53.800 not gonna suck me over, because that's the name of 2:05:53.880 --> 2:05:56.640 the game. We funk people over. Now, that's what we do. Well, 2:05:56.720 --> 2:05:59.839 it's a separate conversation, although your points are well taken. 2:06:00.480 --> 2:06:03.160 So you don't have a manager today I do. I 2:06:03.240 --> 2:06:06.680 have a manager in England and a manager in Australia 2:06:07.080 --> 2:06:09.760 and they just get me work and look after the 2:06:09.840 --> 2:06:14.320 business as it were, and Donna Teller oversees everything. Then 2:06:14.440 --> 2:06:16.240 you have an agent. Who's your agent? Do you have 2:06:16.280 --> 2:06:19.760 a worldwide agent? Not? Really? Not really? We um I 2:06:19.840 --> 2:06:21.560 mean when we tour in England, we have an agent 2:06:21.640 --> 2:06:23.760 there that puts all the gigs together and does a 2:06:23.880 --> 2:06:27.000 very good job of that. He does a few other acts, 2:06:27.080 --> 2:06:30.720 but he's not the biggest um. And I'll tell you 2:06:30.800 --> 2:06:33.160 what I do have. I have an amazing lawyer, an 2:06:33.200 --> 2:06:37.080 incredible accountants, both in England and in here, and I 2:06:37.200 --> 2:06:43.760 split my business North and Southern Hemisphere. So basically, if 2:06:43.840 --> 2:06:45.800 you like, when I play America, it will be with 2:06:45.880 --> 2:06:49.640 the English band and the English team, and when I play, 2:06:49.720 --> 2:06:54.440 say China, it will be China or Asia it will 2:06:54.440 --> 2:06:56.640 be with the Australian team. So I have a band 2:06:56.680 --> 2:06:59.160 in Australia and a band in England. And how many 2:06:59.200 --> 2:07:00.760 gigs a year do you do and how many do 2:07:00.800 --> 2:07:02.600 you want to do? Well, I'm just off to the UK. 2:07:03.120 --> 2:07:06.920 We're finishing an Irish tour that first off that we 2:07:07.040 --> 2:07:11.440 started in but got broken into because of COVID, when suddenly, 2:07:11.520 --> 2:07:13.600 you know, you couldn't have more than two hundred people 2:07:14.440 --> 2:07:17.800 um in a venue at one time, So we had 2:07:17.840 --> 2:07:21.600 to scotch those rest of those gigs, postpone them, and 2:07:21.800 --> 2:07:23.840 then I'm doing the rest of those and a few 2:07:23.880 --> 2:07:26.680 more in Ireland in August, and then I'm doing a 2:07:26.800 --> 2:07:30.640 thirty six day British tour um and that's going to 2:07:30.760 --> 2:07:35.360 be from middle of September to November, and then hopefully, 2:07:36.160 --> 2:07:38.840 with conversations going on with Primary Waive as well, at 2:07:38.880 --> 2:07:42.000 the moment, I'll be coming to America next year. Well, 2:07:42.040 --> 2:07:45.360 I certainly look forward to seeing you. Are you doing 2:07:45.440 --> 2:07:48.600 these live gigs to stay alive or because you want 2:07:48.640 --> 2:07:50.280 to do it. No, I'm doing it because I wanted 2:07:50.320 --> 2:07:52.080 to it, and also it keeps me young. You know, 2:07:52.720 --> 2:07:56.080 I've still got my hair and I've still got my voice, 2:07:56.320 --> 2:08:00.400 and I think working really sort of is import into that. 2:08:00.480 --> 2:08:03.080 I mean, we've we've all gone through a complete change 2:08:03.120 --> 2:08:06.520 of life, haven't we. With the COVID times and everything 2:08:06.560 --> 2:08:10.600 has changed. I mean, you know, every every reliable uh 2:08:12.480 --> 2:08:16.720 let's say, everything that you could rely on was was 2:08:17.040 --> 2:08:19.600 carted away, you know, so you had to kind of 2:08:19.680 --> 2:08:21.520 change a little bit. I mean, I've been doing live 2:08:22.960 --> 2:08:26.160 link ups with my band on Zoom just to keep 2:08:26.280 --> 2:08:29.200 you know, us all kind of working together. I've been 2:08:29.280 --> 2:08:33.080 making internet songs and releasing a lot of stuff on 2:08:33.200 --> 2:08:37.040 Zoom I'm sorry. On on YouTube, I do a song 2:08:37.120 --> 2:08:39.560 called white how did We get here? All about the pandemic, 2:08:40.280 --> 2:08:43.520 you know, because everybody's trying to blame everybody else. You 2:08:43.560 --> 2:08:46.200 can see that one if you like. It's on YouTube. 2:08:46.680 --> 2:08:49.400 And then I did a song from Melbourne because when 2:08:49.440 --> 2:08:53.280 that city did the hardest lockdown that anybody had known, um, 2:08:54.400 --> 2:08:57.480 you know, it was kind of completely decimated. And Melbourne 2:08:57.600 --> 2:09:00.280 is my playtown. I live in near Sydne, me but 2:09:00.680 --> 2:09:03.720 Melbourne is the place where all the gigs are. And 2:09:04.320 --> 2:09:07.200 so I was kind of like writing a sympathetic song there, 2:09:07.320 --> 2:09:10.280 you know, almost a rap that was actually and now 2:09:10.360 --> 2:09:12.280 I'm just writing a song at the moment for the 2:09:12.480 --> 2:09:17.080 Ukraine UM, which is basically on the angle of what 2:09:17.160 --> 2:09:19.520 are we going to do with all the refugees, which 2:09:19.560 --> 2:09:24.320 is an important question. So it's done like footsteps, like 2:09:24.440 --> 2:09:26.880 a walk. It's called take a walk with Me. So 2:09:27.480 --> 2:09:30.280 you take somebody through a song which is, you know, 2:09:30.560 --> 2:09:35.480 a very classic kind of UM styled song UM, and 2:09:35.560 --> 2:09:39.080 you're inviting someone to leave the city that's falling apart 2:09:39.200 --> 2:09:42.560 but below them and saying you're always going to look 2:09:42.600 --> 2:09:44.960 after them, never let them down. And I don't know 2:09:45.000 --> 2:09:46.920 where to place the song, but I'll probably just make 2:09:46.960 --> 2:09:48.640 a YouTube of it and put it out there and 2:09:49.160 --> 2:09:51.800 be nice if someone from UNICEF or someone picked it 2:09:51.880 --> 2:09:54.840 up and used it. But we'll see. I mean, I 2:09:54.920 --> 2:09:57.280 work in a vacuum, Bob. I'm a very unusual guy. 2:09:57.880 --> 2:10:02.040 I work. I'm like you know, m yeah, I'm like 2:10:02.200 --> 2:10:06.520 vank gosh, I I work on this staff. I mean, 2:10:07.160 --> 2:10:09.960 I actually hope that my legacy is bigger when I'm 2:10:10.000 --> 2:10:13.640 dead than it is when I'm alive. Well, you're very optimistic, 2:10:14.120 --> 2:10:17.320 still working. We didn't plumb a lot of topics, like 2:10:17.440 --> 2:10:22.400 your relationships with all of these musicians and stars. But 2:10:22.680 --> 2:10:26.960 I admire your optimism and the fact that you still 2:10:27.200 --> 2:10:29.520 you know, especially in light of the story you've told 2:10:29.520 --> 2:10:32.400 about when you leased the Big Space and then it 2:10:32.560 --> 2:10:35.480 devastated you and you had a nervous breakdown. Have you 2:10:35.560 --> 2:10:38.400 ever been close to that feeling again? Was that one 2:10:38.480 --> 2:10:40.920 and done? I don't know if you've heard of a 2:10:40.960 --> 2:10:46.840 show called Big Brother, absolutely absolutely awful. I after chasing 2:10:46.880 --> 2:10:51.320 a record deal a band about two thousand and five 2:10:51.760 --> 2:10:55.440 or six, I um, I was invited to go on 2:10:55.600 --> 2:10:59.240 Big Brother in England celebrity brig Brother, and I went 2:10:59.320 --> 2:11:01.640 on there and they I just left England at the time, 2:11:01.720 --> 2:11:04.120 and I think I said some things about leaving England 2:11:04.520 --> 2:11:06.160 so glad to get out of here, so happy to 2:11:06.240 --> 2:11:09.280 go to Australia, and they really seized on all of 2:11:09.320 --> 2:11:11.560 that and gave me a rotten hard time. And I 2:11:11.680 --> 2:11:15.000 ended up breaking out of there because I experienced incredible 2:11:15.040 --> 2:11:18.560 claustrophobia and the fact that when you go in there, 2:11:18.600 --> 2:11:21.240 they take your watch away from you, you know, they 2:11:21.320 --> 2:11:24.160 take your your your They don't give you any pens 2:11:24.240 --> 2:11:27.560 to write down with anything with. I was suddenly in 2:11:27.600 --> 2:11:31.840 a creative vacuum, and I can't honestly say that. Many 2:11:31.920 --> 2:11:35.040 of my fellow contestants were the most inspiring people to 2:11:35.080 --> 2:11:39.080 be with as well, so they just gave me a 2:11:39.160 --> 2:11:41.560 hard time. So I did half the show in mine, 2:11:42.160 --> 2:11:44.720 which I thought was quite fun to do. So I 2:11:45.040 --> 2:11:47.840 was just doing hand signals, you know. The rest of 2:11:47.920 --> 2:11:51.560 it I wrote, and my breath on glass panes. Some 2:11:51.720 --> 2:11:53.680 of it I actually found a little piece of metal 2:11:53.720 --> 2:11:57.000 and revealed all the cameras to everybody by taking panels out. 2:11:57.360 --> 2:12:00.680 I went to war with the show basically, and I 2:12:00.800 --> 2:12:05.920 found doing that. You know, I'm such a rebel. I 2:12:06.080 --> 2:12:09.760 just I can't do anything like anybody else does. I 2:12:09.840 --> 2:12:12.720 have to do it my own way. I'm born with 2:12:12.840 --> 2:12:17.200 this gene of having to invent myself and and do that. 2:12:17.400 --> 2:12:20.760 So I would actually say, I mean, my feeling is 2:12:20.800 --> 2:12:24.720 that I'm a true artist, and you know sometimes that 2:12:24.840 --> 2:12:27.160 people say that's very big headed or something you know, 2:12:27.320 --> 2:12:29.960 to say, But I know all the criteria that an 2:12:30.080 --> 2:12:35.720 artist needs to have, and it's not a reliance on corporates, companies, 2:12:36.920 --> 2:12:40.560 other people even it's basically it all comes from me. 2:12:41.960 --> 2:12:45.480 Everything I do is part of this vivid imagination that 2:12:45.640 --> 2:12:49.440 was born with that I've always had. I can dream 2:12:49.520 --> 2:12:52.080 songs into being. I can create things from a blank 2:12:52.280 --> 2:12:57.040 sheet of paper. Um So I just have to follow that, 2:12:57.200 --> 2:13:01.320 and that's that's that's my skill set. My skill set 2:13:01.400 --> 2:13:04.200 is to trust myself, to listen to myself and to 2:13:04.320 --> 2:13:07.840 follow myself. And most of the people in my life 2:13:07.920 --> 2:13:13.560 now appreciate that and let me do it, and let me. 2:13:14.440 --> 2:13:17.480 Let me make a mistake. If I make a mistake, 2:13:18.440 --> 2:13:20.720 let me do something glorious. If I do it glorious. 2:13:20.760 --> 2:13:22.520 But they know the only way to get something good 2:13:22.560 --> 2:13:24.280 out of me is to let me do it. I 2:13:24.400 --> 2:13:30.720 designed my own show. Um I I do everything. I'm 2:13:30.720 --> 2:13:35.320 an autobiographer. I'm writing my book completely by myself. Nobody's helping. 2:13:35.440 --> 2:13:39.000 I'm doing all the research by myself. It's been a 2:13:39.560 --> 2:13:44.920 monstrous task. And to find stuff that I didn't even 2:13:44.960 --> 2:13:47.680 know about. It's a revelation as well, you know. So 2:13:48.440 --> 2:13:51.360 I don't know. I think I'm I think probably when 2:13:51.520 --> 2:13:54.840 that book comes out and people hopefully get to read it, 2:13:54.920 --> 2:13:57.400 if I can find the right publisher, and maybe even 2:13:57.480 --> 2:13:59.520 we can make a biopic of it. I think I've 2:13:59.560 --> 2:14:03.200 got to love a story to tell and the fact 2:14:03.280 --> 2:14:06.000 if I'm a little bit obscure and a little bit 2:14:06.120 --> 2:14:10.600 off the radar because of them, may I mean I'm 2:14:10.600 --> 2:14:13.080 not living I'm not with Live Nation, I'm not with 2:14:14.400 --> 2:14:18.800 Sony Records or anybody like that. You know, Um, I'm 2:14:18.960 --> 2:14:22.160 very much off the radar um. But if people want 2:14:22.200 --> 2:14:24.720 to discover me, they'll find something I think that is 2:14:24.920 --> 2:14:28.560 very different and very unique. Well, certainly your conversation with 2:14:28.680 --> 2:14:32.720 me today has been different, unique and intriguing. Leo. I 2:14:32.800 --> 2:14:34.840 want to thank you for taking all this time with me. 2:14:35.080 --> 2:14:37.720 Thank you, Bob. And I've always been a big admirer 2:14:37.760 --> 2:14:39.520 of you, and I love the I love the column 2:14:39.640 --> 2:14:43.440 and and the blog, and you're one of the good guys. 2:14:43.520 --> 2:14:45.320 So it's a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. 2:14:45.920 --> 2:14:48.520 Till next time. This is Barbed Worth Sex