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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the barth Websites podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today was the one and only Meal Sah we

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Speaker 1: are good day approprim nice to be here. Bub. You

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Speaker 1: in Australia. Why astral h good question. Well, after I

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Speaker 1: had made my first record and silver Bird my first

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Speaker 1: album in I went straight to America on tour because

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Speaker 1: things were happening on a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: interest in America, and you know, we signed up with

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Speaker 1: Warner Brothers for the USA and Canada at that time,

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Speaker 1: and South America, I guess, and the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world was Chrysalis Records in England. Um. And after the

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Speaker 1: American tour which went fantastic, um, it was just a

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Speaker 1: huge success. Uh, there was a call for me to

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Speaker 1: come to US Astralia. So I came down to Australia.

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Speaker 1: And when I came, it was by this time and

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Speaker 1: a buzz had already really started. So I arrived in Melbourne,

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Speaker 1: I think it was arrived in Melbourne to absolute well,

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Speaker 1: it was like Beatlemania. You know, the airport was jammed

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Speaker 1: with people. There were people waving at the plane as

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Speaker 1: we came in from the observation deck of the airport.

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Speaker 1: And journalists were immediately, you know, beseeching me, and I

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Speaker 1: had lots of stupid questions asked at the airport, you know,

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Speaker 1: like why did you come to Australia, what do you

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Speaker 1: or even what do you think of Australia. Well he

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Speaker 1: hasn't even got it yet, you know, so it was crazy.

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Speaker 1: And but this tour was just amazing and I fell

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Speaker 1: in love with the place. And we had a a sponsor,

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Speaker 1: a wonderful guy called redg and Set who ran an

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Speaker 1: airline which is now defunct called and Set Airlines. And

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Speaker 1: Bob had his own private plane. So he said to me, Um,

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Speaker 1: do you want to what places would you like to

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Speaker 1: go to in Australia Because we'd had an incredibly successful

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Speaker 1: to us sold out everywhere, so he wanted to give

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Speaker 1: me a gift and he just said, look, I'll fly

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Speaker 1: you to six places you choose. Just put a pear

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Speaker 1: on the map and we can get there. There's air

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Speaker 1: there's air fields everywhere. So yeah, I went to the

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Speaker 1: famous airs Rock you know, which is now Ulura Uluru

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Speaker 1: as it's called the area you Laura, um. And we

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Speaker 1: went to Northern Cans and we went to Broom where

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Speaker 1: they shot the you know, Chariots of Fire movie, and

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Speaker 1: you see those guys, you know the Endless sands. That's

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Speaker 1: that's this incredible place. And we went down to Tasmania.

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Speaker 1: We we flew to all these places, and I made

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Speaker 1: myself a vow that one day I was going to

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Speaker 1: come and live in Australia. I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: made it, It was just an instinctive thought. But when

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Speaker 1: you see the beauty of this place and you feel

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Speaker 1: the space and you feel the you know you can

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Speaker 1: be lonely here and yet happy. How can I describe that?

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Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's solitude that you can reach in

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Speaker 1: this place. Um and and a little bit less bs

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Speaker 1: than the rest of the world, you know, they're a

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Speaker 1: bit less hype. So I kind of over the years,

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Speaker 1: I started coming back and coming back and coming back,

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Speaker 1: And when I finally moved in here in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five with my lovely partner Donna Teller, who was

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Speaker 1: also a man my manager at the time as well. UM.

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Speaker 1: When we moved in, they asked me how many times

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Speaker 1: you have been to Australia then, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: the immigration standard question. I said forty five, which was

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Speaker 1: the absolute God's truth, you know. So so hey, it's

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Speaker 1: my it was my second hand home, you know. But

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Speaker 1: but let me say as well, I've always loved working

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Speaker 1: in exile. I mean when I lived in when I

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Speaker 1: lived in the States, in in California, and in briefly

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Speaker 1: in New York, made all those albums during the seventies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I felt really good at being away from home. My

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Speaker 1: father was a merchant seaman, so basically he sailed around

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Speaker 1: the world as a ship's engineer, and I suppose I

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Speaker 1: followed in his footsteps. I always loved traveling, and I

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Speaker 1: love being away from home. It pushed me more, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I think being here it pushes me to prove

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Speaker 1: myself all the time. Even though I'm seventy four in May,

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Speaker 1: I still feel I've got a lot to prove. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've been to Australia a couple of times. I know

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Speaker 1: most of the people in the industry there, and they

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Speaker 1: talk about how far it is from everything. They are

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Speaker 1: thrilled when you actually go there, kind of like what

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Speaker 1: you're saying your first time in nine Oh. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: but they also talk about the distance. It's certainly well

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Speaker 1: known in terms of bands Australia has the best live

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Speaker 1: bands because they're limited number of markets they have to

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Speaker 1: play all this time. But do you feel somewhat disconnected

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Speaker 1: from the business, from the news, from anything. No, No,

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Speaker 1: not at all. And I think that, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at here, we are talking on zoom and we're

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Speaker 1: able to reach the world from wherever we are. I

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Speaker 1: mean I follow Formula one, you know, Grand pre Racing,

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Speaker 1: and most of the journalists who work on that, um

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Speaker 1: that business was always centered around England, around Britain, rather

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Speaker 1: like my version of the music business was always centered

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Speaker 1: around Britain. You know, it had to be Britain first.

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Speaker 1: That was the where you know, you've got the best

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Speaker 1: equipment for the studio, and that was where you kind

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Speaker 1: of that was where you worked. If that was your

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Speaker 1: that was your field, your place. Now, all these guys

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Speaker 1: in Formula one, they all live in Spain, they all

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Speaker 1: live in Italy, they all live in Germany because they

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Speaker 1: don't need to be in in Britain to do their work.

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Speaker 1: So just like that, I mean, I think I've talked

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Speaker 1: to a few rock journalists who live in the Demonic

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Speaker 1: American rock journalists who live in Dominican Republic or Mexico,

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Speaker 1: you know, or Canada, because we now have linked the

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Speaker 1: world by technology. So I think you don't and I

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Speaker 1: think you know if you if you follow some of

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Speaker 1: the the news media to find out about what's happening

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Speaker 1: in the business. Like this morning, I was looking at

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Speaker 1: Mixed Magazine, and you know, they're they're blog and finding

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Speaker 1: out about some new studio gear that I'm interested in,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like, yeah, at that moment I'm reading

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Speaker 1: Mixed Magazine, I'm I'm in California, you know. So so

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Speaker 1: I I think the world has got small and got closer.

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Speaker 1: Air travel is easier as well, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: COVID's put a spike into a lot of what we do,

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Speaker 1: traveling wise and international wise. But I think that I

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Speaker 1: don't feel disconnected, and I wake up every morning feeling

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Speaker 1: at home. You know. Let's start at Formula one. They

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Speaker 1: were just in Melbourne, did you go no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a bit off it at the moment, although

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Speaker 1: I talked to about six different friends who are down there,

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Speaker 1: you know, so I get the inside track, you know. So,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, and I over the years, I've just become

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Speaker 1: a little bit less of a racing guy and a

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Speaker 1: little bit more of a more of a chronicler. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm writing my book at the moment, Bob.

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Speaker 1: So I'm one thousand, four hundred words into the book

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Speaker 1: and chasing my chronicling my life. And I've got a

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Speaker 1: vast amount of material here. I'm working on everyday research,

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Speaker 1: you know, research, research, research, find out what I was

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Speaker 1: doing on June the eleven. You know, You've got a

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Speaker 1: couple of things. Let me ask. Yeah, George Harrison was

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Speaker 1: famously into Formula one. He was a good friend. You

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Speaker 1: were into Formula one? But what was the appeal back then?

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Speaker 1: I think that we all grew up. You know. Look,

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Speaker 1: boys grow up to either want to be racing drivers

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Speaker 1: or fighter pilots. It's the fantasy when you're at school.

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Speaker 1: Maybe soccer players or American football players, or baseball players

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Speaker 1: or tennis players. But mostly I think boys, you know,

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Speaker 1: like that dare devil sport. You know that that that

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Speaker 1: devil may care kind of dangerous thing that you do.

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Speaker 1: You know. So I grew up with motor racing. I

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Speaker 1: used to follow Phil Hill and Sterling Moss. My father

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Speaker 1: raced motorcycles, so you know, just as a spare time

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Speaker 1: kind of thing until his mom, until my mom stopped

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Speaker 1: him because it was too dangerous. Um And I remember

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Speaker 1: him taking me to the Goodwood Race Course, which is

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Speaker 1: very famous now for historic events. Um And we went

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Speaker 1: there and Sterling Moss crashed and right in front of us,

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Speaker 1: and it was a crash that nearly finished his career.

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Speaker 1: And I it was just one of those moments when

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Speaker 1: I just I thought that the smell of the petrol,

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole kind of screeching of tires, the

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Speaker 1: whole dangerous excitement of it, I just found very compelling.

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Speaker 1: And you know the most beautiful part of that story

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Speaker 1: is that Sterling Moss became a friend many years later

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Speaker 1: because I met him through you know, Formula one. Of course,

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Speaker 1: now he knows I'm Leo say I'm not Jerry Sarah

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Speaker 1: any longer. Um And and we became pals and I

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Speaker 1: used to go to dinner with him all the time.

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Speaker 1: So it isn't incredible that you meet your heroes and

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Speaker 1: they become your friends. Okay, staying with Fromula one just

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Speaker 1: for another second. Yeah, why are you off it now?

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Speaker 1: And what do you think of the Netflix series? If

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Speaker 1: you've seen it? Can I say the word crap. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you can use if you want to. It's fucking crap. No. Um,

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Speaker 1: I just think it's all become a little bit less Vegas,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. Of course, the Americans group, you know,

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Speaker 1: big group have taken it over, and of course they

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Speaker 1: want you know, you know, lots of lots of bodies

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Speaker 1: at the track, and they want to appeal to young

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Speaker 1: kids and girls and all of this stuff. But it's

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Speaker 1: not as pure as it used to be and the

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Speaker 1: rules are starting to get fudged around to kind of

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Speaker 1: make the best, uh, you know, the best result and

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Speaker 1: netflix the series. Although it's very well done, of course

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Speaker 1: you can't say it's not. Um. It tends to kind

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Speaker 1: of bring up kind of you know, it makes it

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Speaker 1: makes stories that aren't really true, you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: fictionalizes it and sort of dramatizes it. And I think

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Speaker 1: over dramatization, life's exciting enough, isn't it, Bob? You know,

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Speaker 1: do we need to have a dramatist kind of rescript everything?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a bit like when you watch

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Speaker 1: a biopic movie. I can't watch the Queen movie or

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Speaker 1: the Rod Stewart movie, whatever they are. You know, I

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Speaker 1: just can't watch them because you know, they're just kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, enhancing all the details to to cry

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Speaker 1: and try and create something that somebody who's just not

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Speaker 1: interested in the subject of, say Jim Morrison, will be

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Speaker 1: attracted to. But I mean, anybody following the life of

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Speaker 1: Jim Morrison, boy, that's exciting enough as it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I agree totally. Let me just ask you one,

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Speaker 1: why dramatized Janice Joplin When Janice Jock it was Janis Joplin. Man. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that we've lost. Of course,

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Speaker 1: when you went to go see these acts before YouTube, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: and you experienced it live, it was something transcended. They

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Speaker 1: cannot be replicated today. Just the final note on Formula one, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got into it. But the final result last year

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Speaker 1: with Verse stopping taking over Hamilton's in the rules, I'm

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Speaker 1: eating out dreadful. Well, that's that's what's kind of that's

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Speaker 1: what's led me to this position. I mean, I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really a shame when you get your

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Speaker 1: best protagonists a bit a little bit like you know, um,

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Speaker 1: some fights are coming in in Muhammad Ali's Prime and

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Speaker 1: with four hands, you know, and you know, four arms,

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Speaker 1: and they let him box and he beats Ali of

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Speaker 1: course because he's got four arms. Um, and you're going

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Speaker 1: to call that legitimate, you know, it's the same thing. Really,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just I think it's kind of cheating. Personally,

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Speaker 1: I think that guy had that race one. He driven brilliantly.

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Speaker 1: His story is the story of the greatest of all time.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to be controversial here and I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: is it because he's black? I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a really it's a really difficult one

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Speaker 1: to get into. But they wanted the young, the Stapend

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Speaker 1: to win. They got for Stappen. I mean, the first

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Speaker 1: thing he did was put number one on his car,

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Speaker 1: which I think is kind of gratuitous, you know, to

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Speaker 1: say the least, because they all have their numbers and

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Speaker 1: their logos going with that. And of course you've got

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Speaker 1: the right if you win the championship to put number

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Speaker 1: one on your on your team, but on your car.

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Speaker 1: But I mean mostly those drivers, they don't race on

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Speaker 1: those kind of ego principles. And and here you've got

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Speaker 1: an ego guy. Well you know, well, we'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: The best news of all with to close on Formula

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Speaker 1: one is the Ferrari now looked like they're they're wrapping

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Speaker 1: it up. So that's fantastic that the oldest team, the

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Speaker 1: most traditional team. UM it's too young, wonderful young drivers.

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Speaker 1: UM is doing what it says on the packet, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's beautiful. If the Red Car wins, I'll

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Speaker 1: be very happy. Okay, let's go back to what you

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Speaker 1: said being in exile. Now, let's just talk about recording music.

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Speaker 1: So do you find it's easier to do in isolation

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Speaker 1: and exile? Yeah, well, I I've developed a way of

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Speaker 1: making records completely by myself, and I'm very proud of it.

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Speaker 1: I'm It's taken me a while to get there. But

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Speaker 1: you know, if I go back, I started as all

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be as a painter, an artist. I

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Speaker 1: was into you know, people as various as as as

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Speaker 1: Marcel Duchamp and Mark Rothko and and and Henri Russo

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Speaker 1: and and Van Gogh. But I mean I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a painter. I at school, I was great at art.

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Speaker 1: That was my great ability. I was a dyslexic kid,

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Speaker 1: so I leaned towards the creative side because I was

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Speaker 1: no good at the practical. My father was an engineer.

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Speaker 1: He was ashamed of me because I couldn't add put

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Speaker 1: two and two together. And I mean until I was nineteen,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even tie my shoelaces. I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: left and right worth? Could you really not tie your shoelaces?

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Speaker 1: I really couldn't. I really couldn't. I was I was.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'd bulk at anything technical like that because

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Speaker 1: the laces would go in different positions. So my brain

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Speaker 1: told me, you know, left and right position, all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I still can't play drums. I can't coordinate

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Speaker 1: one hand on the other, so going you know, having

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Speaker 1: those disabilities leads to incredible mind and creative abilities. You know.

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Speaker 1: So I could imagine things. I could I could see things.

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Speaker 1: I could work out perspective and distance in my head.

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Speaker 1: So I was born to be an artist. Now I

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Speaker 1: went to art school. Um, my parents argued with the

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Speaker 1: the art school uh burses when we got in, you know,

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Speaker 1: so to say, he said, I don't want him be

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Speaker 1: in a bohemian and get him a job in commercial arts.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I went into a commercial art course,

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Speaker 1: you know, to do that, which was very frustrating. But

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Speaker 1: I would bunk off all the time and go to

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Speaker 1: the life drawing classes and go to the art classes

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Speaker 1: and hang out with all the fine artists. You know.

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Speaker 1: So I was already a rebel in that time. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I I just had this creative brain.

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Speaker 1: I've always had that, and that that I mean, I

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Speaker 1: could sing. I sang in the church choir. I had

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Speaker 1: a wonderful priest who taught me to sing, so I

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Speaker 1: always had that in the background. And apparently I have

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Speaker 1: perfect pitch, so you know, that gave me the gift

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Speaker 1: of always been able to know what note I was

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Speaker 1: singing and tune into the sound of birds or whatever

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Speaker 1: in the background, you know, So I could find those things.

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Speaker 1: So when I actually got to the studio and I

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Speaker 1: did working, of course, nobody would let me near the

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Speaker 1: control desk and that they just put me on the microphone.

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Speaker 1: But I mean they were amazed that I could walk,

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Speaker 1: I could go out and have a sandwich and come

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Speaker 1: back and sing in exactly the same key as I

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Speaker 1: had left the room singing in you know. So I

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Speaker 1: had those gifts. I had those abilities and I was

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Speaker 1: a quick learner a good observer as well. So all

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Speaker 1: the years that say, from seventy four, seventy three, maybe

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Speaker 1: seventy two, all the way until um, I was working

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Speaker 1: with other writers and other producers and learning their craft

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Speaker 1: by just observing them. So now I've got to this

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Speaker 1: finite point where I can do the lot myself. And

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Speaker 1: so I believe, going back to the art theory, that

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Speaker 1: if Van Gogh and Picasso and all those guys didn't

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Speaker 1: need somebody in the room to do the blues and

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Speaker 1: the reds for them, why can't I do the lot?

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Speaker 1: If I call myself an artist, I should be to

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Speaker 1: make the whole thing, so I should be able to

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Speaker 1: learn the technology to make it. Slave to me absolutely, So,

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Speaker 1: you know, based on our discussions and preparations, it seems

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Speaker 1: like you're very technologically savvy intuitively, so I think I

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Speaker 1: think it's an intuitive thing. You know that I honestly

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Speaker 1: I read manuals and I don't know what the hell

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Speaker 1: I'm reading. And sometimes my engineer, live engineer, Damian Young,

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Speaker 1: great guy in Melbourne, sometimes has to do a screen

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Speaker 1: time thing with me, you know, with team viewer and

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Speaker 1: come onto the screen and sort out what I can't do.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, Leo, you do it like oh, I'm going,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, what a klutz. But but we get there,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I'm determined, my determination, and I can't

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Speaker 1: believe I'm seventy four in May and I'm still this ambitious,

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Speaker 1: determined guy who's got to prove all these things to himself.

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Speaker 1: But that's how I am, That's how I'm built. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So how much equipment do you have in the studio?

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Speaker 1: How professional is it? It's pretty pro I mean I

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Speaker 1: work with a computer which is kind of highly boosted.

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Speaker 1: I've got a whole server system in here, about twenty

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Speaker 1: one terror bytes of memory, and it's a whole radio

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Speaker 1: system with backups. If the power goes off here, which

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Speaker 1: it often does because we're in the country, um, I've

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Speaker 1: got a twenty four hour backup, so everything just clicks

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Speaker 1: in and works. I've got accelerated Internet as well, which

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Speaker 1: which helps me stay on touch with it all. I

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Speaker 1: have a necessar desk, some beautiful mics. I've got a

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Speaker 1: new mic by a guy called Lowton who's built this

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Speaker 1: incredible mic which David Crosby as well uses, and Dave

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Speaker 1: Crosby's engineer was a guy that I knew, so I

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Speaker 1: quizzed him about mikes and he said, throughout your name,

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Speaker 1: throughout you annoymans, get this one. So I've got this

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Speaker 1: amazing mic that just makes my voice sound really sweet.

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Speaker 1: I've built a booth in my studio all on wheels

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Speaker 1: where I sing in. So i have a big open

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Speaker 1: space barn here. I'm speaking to you from one side

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Speaker 1: of the barn, and I'd say it's about a thousand

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Speaker 1: square feet and it's all open. But I've got these

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Speaker 1: things called clouds, which you know, basically give you acoustic

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Speaker 1: treatment over where the monitors are and everything. I use

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Speaker 1: Miller and Cries or monitors. I use Crane Song, which

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Speaker 1: is Dave Hill who created the Summit brand, and then

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Speaker 1: Crane's song. I use his mike PRIs which are fantastic.

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Speaker 1: And I've got a lot of expensive equipment, um incredible

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Speaker 1: electrostatic headphones and these these Planar Dan Clark Audio. I'll

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Speaker 1: give him a plug from California. And you know, I've

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Speaker 1: got all the toys, Tina Turner's old Newhiman microphone and

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Speaker 1: some beautiful A kg s. I've got all the toys

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Speaker 1: and I can basically, you know, start a project by

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Speaker 1: myself and not bother to call anybody, which is great

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Speaker 1: and that's what I love. Okay, So you have a

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Speaker 1: new record, Northern Songs, which are covers of Beatle records.

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Speaker 1: Did you play all the instruments, do everything yourself? Yeah? Everything?

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Speaker 1: So how did you do it? I mean with the Beatles,

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Speaker 1: I always imagined how I would treat those songs, being

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Speaker 1: very cheeky, you know. So it's a kind of it's

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Speaker 1: an interpretation first off. So you know when people hear it,

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Speaker 1: they won't hear direct covers, you know, they'll hear um

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Speaker 1: leo leo phid versions, you know. So we've changed the

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Speaker 1: beats and we've changed the field and all sorts of

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Speaker 1: things like that. So that's the first point. So I

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Speaker 1: heard these songs in my head, and I hear things

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Speaker 1: in my head sometimes from dreams as well. I've write

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Speaker 1: songs in dreams. And then I just I mean, I

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Speaker 1: have seven studio here, let's say, because basically I've designed

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Speaker 1: it so that if it's the winter, you can instantly

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Speaker 1: turn the it's it's hot here in five minutes. Big

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Speaker 1: radiator hydroponic system in here. Great air conditioning for the summer.

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Speaker 1: So I'll get up in the middle of the night,

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Speaker 1: straight from a dream or straight from some imagination, run

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Speaker 1: and immediately come in and just start working on something.

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Speaker 1: The fact that I'm not using another studio really helps

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Speaker 1: because everything is ready to go all the time. So

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Speaker 1: wherever you were last into a song, say working on

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Speaker 1: the base, if you leave it alone and you go

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Speaker 1: away for a few hours, you can come back and

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Speaker 1: just carry on. And I just hear all the lines

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Speaker 1: in my head. I've I can dissect all the parts

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Speaker 1: of a song in my memory and just work on

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Speaker 1: them and put it all together. Um, I've just got this,

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Speaker 1: found this ability. And I suppose the dyslexia has helped

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Speaker 1: in a way because I'm able to kind of really

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Speaker 1: dig into my imagination or my mind and and use

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Speaker 1: that for all my work. You know. So I start

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Speaker 1: with a basic template. I'll put down a drum beat

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Speaker 1: a keyboard. Go. Okay, just to be clear, you said earlier,

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Speaker 1: because you're slexic, you couldn't play the drums. So these

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Speaker 1: are electronic drums you're putting on the record. Everything is

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Speaker 1: played from a keyboard into the computer. So every note

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Speaker 1: relates to a keyboard. I don't really use pads. Some

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Speaker 1: people use pads, you know for drums and everything. I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't do that, and I tend to cut and

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Speaker 1: paste a lot of stuff, so I tend to I

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Speaker 1: have a vast sampler library, you know. My my, my,

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Speaker 1: my computer is relying on about eight terror bytes of memory,

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Speaker 1: slaving to it from various things and from various other

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Speaker 1: outboard uh memory units, you know. So I've got all

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Speaker 1: these samples, and somehow my head always manages to find

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Speaker 1: the right sounds and the right um, the right grooves

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Speaker 1: as it were, you know, on the drums, to to

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Speaker 1: give me the field. So I'll use lots of different

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Speaker 1: elements to get there. Sometimes some loops as well, so

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Speaker 1: I mean get back on the record. Is just the

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Speaker 1: drum loop that I found from some guys that work

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Speaker 1: with in Denmark, and he gave me a CD of

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Speaker 1: all of his drums, and bang, I'll put it all

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Speaker 1: together from there. Um just added some symbols in the

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Speaker 1: right places, you know. But I just love that feeling

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Speaker 1: of control. You know, you can do things yourself. It

408
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: is possible. You start off with the drums, told us

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Speaker 1: how you built the track from there. Yeah, build a

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Speaker 1: track basically, put down a keyboard. It's it's it can

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Speaker 1: be a tiss in process because you're writing a song

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Speaker 1: at the same time. So I'm I'm writing lyrics at

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Speaker 1: that moment um and and you know, working on a

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Speaker 1: vocal line. Um, I don't know, it's it's it's just

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Speaker 1: it just comes, and it comes fairly easily. I have

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Speaker 1: to say, it's hard to describe the process. I'm supposed

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Speaker 1: to do something soon for I think it's Mixed magazine actually,

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Speaker 1: um where they're going to look at my studio and

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Speaker 1: the way that I work, and and they said, they

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Speaker 1: don't know anybody who works like me. I mean maybe

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Speaker 1: Todd Rundgren did when he was doing his a cappella

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Speaker 1: record and a few things like that, but they don't

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Speaker 1: know anybody. Stevie Wonder of course does everything himself, and

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Speaker 1: Prince did as well. But at the same time, Prince

425
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: would bring in musicians to work with an engineers, he

426
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: would always have around. I have nobody. So I think

427
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: what I'm doing is pretty unique, you know. Okay, how

428
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: about acoustic instruments. Do you play guitar? Do you play

429
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: all these other No? But they're all available as samples now,

430
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: you know, I mean wonderful program called Native Instruments. UM.

431
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: Just to name one of them. They can give you

432
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: strummed guitars. So basically you can get a guitar which

433
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: will go ding ding ding ding ding. Now, you might

434
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: not like one of those beats, so immediately you go

435
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: onto the screen and cut that up and then get

436
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: it to work in the way that you want it

437
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: to work. I mean, when I'm working, I often start

438
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: off a song. I'll be completely in the wrong key,

439
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: so I'll have to move everything, so it becomes an

440
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: extraneous process, you know. Um, But that's that's okay. I

441
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: mean anything to get there. And I gotta tell you,

442
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean Northern Songs. It's the second album that I've

443
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 1: made like this. So I made an album called Selfie, UM,

444
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,199
Speaker 1: and I called it Selfie because I was doing it

445
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: all myself. UM and I that came out a couple

446
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: of years ago or so. UM. And they can be

447
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: a long process. I mean, I don't care how long

448
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: it takes. The Beatles projects started ten years ago, so um.

449
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: And I have an engineer, an amazing engineer that I

450
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: use for mixing and and also, you know we he

451
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: does the market mastering as well. He's called John Hudson

452
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: and he used to be an Olympic Studios who ran

453
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: Olympic Studios, a very famous studio in London. And he's

454
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: the guy who recorded that brought all the Bryan Adams songs.

455
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: You know, um he recorded Tina Turner, he recorded He's

456
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: got Grammys for Tina turn What's love got to do

457
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: with it? All those tracks? We don't need another hero.

458
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: John is probably one of the best mixing engineers in

459
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: the world and he started mixing me way back in UM.

460
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: And you know, when I was working with this guy

461
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: Alan Tani, we did more than I can say, and

462
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: Richard Road and a few other songs, and John was

463
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: the mixing engineer and I always got on well with John.

464
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: And one day I moved in here to as I say,

465
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, and in two thousand and seven

466
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: I got a call out of the blue. Hey, it's

467
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: John no Going, what what are you doing? And I

468
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: noticed it was an Australian number, and of course his

469
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: wife is Australian. He said, well, I packed up the studio,

470
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: I got out of there, got fed up with it.

471
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: There are a few complications. I'm here in Australia, so

472
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: I said great. He said, look, I'm looking for a

473
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: studio to work in. I said, well, I know there's

474
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: a studio here called three or one Studios, which is

475
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: linked with Abbey Road. It's my studio down here, is

476
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: quite beautifully equipped and everything. And On is the genius

477
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: with SSL as well, you know, always has been one

478
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: of the best mixing engineers. I mean, I mean he

479
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: did he did the the the Live Aid song, you know,

480
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. You know, so he's he's

481
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: the genius with SSL. So when I told them John

482
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: Hudson was down, they said, oh, bring him down, bring

483
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: him down, and they gave us a room in there,

484
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: and with we only had computers in there and a

485
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: little mixing desk. But that's how the project started. Just

486
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: literally he was off the plane but a jet lag

487
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: and I played him these songs I was working on,

488
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: these Beatles songs. I played him Strawberry Fills, Forever Um

489
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: and Norwegian would eleanor Rigby with the Michael Jackson kind

490
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: of beat to it, and and he said, great, let's

491
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: let's mix them. He mixed them straight away, and those

492
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: are the mixes that are on the album there from

493
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: ten years ago. Okay, let's talk about the Beatles. When

494
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: did you first hear the Beatles. I think I think

495
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: give Us Love Me Do, which was the first really

496
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: real proper single that they made, and I was at school,

497
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: I must have been about fifteen sixteen something like that,

498
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: and this song came over, and I've got to say

499
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty cool because, um, I like

500
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: the way that the guy John Lennon was I'm just

501
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: checking the time I had thirty two minutes. Um, I

502
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: liked the way that the guy it was playing harmonica

503
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: because I was playing harmonica at the time and I

504
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: was playing, you know, I was just learning the harmonica,

505
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: and hey, this guy with the Beatles was playing the harmonica.

506
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. So that's what made me listen to it.

507
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I was much more into Buddy Holly and

508
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: Elvis and and blues music basically, and folk music, you know,

509
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: Woody Guthrie and things like that. I hadn't quite discovered

510
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan yet, which was going to be the big

511
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: one for me, but but yeah, I was. I was intrigued.

512
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: I loved Lonnie Donnie Gun and you know, and skiffle

513
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: and and pure music, you know, Sunny Terry and Brandon McGee,

514
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and here comes this guy making this

515
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: pop song but he's playing a harmonica, so it's pretty cool.

516
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: I think that was the first time I noticed them.

517
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: So what was it like experiencing the Beatles in the UK?

518
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: We know ed Sullivan Beatlemania and the United States. What

519
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: was it like in the UK? Well, I think that

520
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: we were watching them develop, you know, and that was

521
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: what's interesting because they were based here and you see

522
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: them on the streets. I mean. I used to work

523
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: in the design studio when I was about eighteen and

524
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: left art school. Um and I was in a design

525
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: studio in London and John Lennon used to visit Yoko

526
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: ownA who had an apartment on the top. That was

527
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: when they were first dating. Um Well, she was in

528
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: the apartment with her then boyfriend, so John would come

529
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: and visit. Now, the the art gallery guy that Yoko

530
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: was with didn't like anybody smoking upstairs. John smoked like

531
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: a chimney, so he had to smoke down in the

532
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: yard where I had to smoke as well. Because basically

533
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: we had a lot of chemicals in the in the

534
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: art room, and you know, you couldn't smoke there. So

535
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: I would go down to the backyard and there's this

536
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: guy was turned up with the white suit and I

537
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: knew who he was, um, but I couldn't really sort

538
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: of say hey, Mr lenn and I just couldn't bring

539
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: myself to Oh I'm a big fan, you know, I

540
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: couldn't bring myself to do that. So I just said,

541
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: had I mate? And uh? And he said hello, mate, back,

542
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, and we shared Siggi's together, and sometimes he'd

543
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: roll a joint and with our smoker joint together, and

544
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: you know, we were smoking companions and it's really kind

545
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: of funny because you know, you know, he said, what's

546
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: your name? I said Jerry, And I said, yeah, what's yours? Oh,

547
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: John John? And I think he kind of got a

548
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: kick out of the fact that I wasn't John Lennon

549
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: and him or beatling him, you know. So so we

550
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: we became hey, how are you today? Yeah, good mate?

551
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,239
Speaker 1: What's up to? I'm just visiting Yoka up stairs. You know,

552
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: I'll be here for a few hours anyway, you know,

553
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: tell me what you're working on today. I'm doing a

554
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: cover for this band, you know, and he said yeah,

555
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: he said, I know a bit about music, you know,

556
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: and we'd we'd play this kind of decoy game where

557
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, we just wouldn't admit who he was, which

558
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: was very cool. Years later, Okay, spin years forward, I'm

559
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: making my first album, silver Bird, Um and Adam Faith

560
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: who's managing me and producing it with David Courtney, my

561
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: co writer as well, but co producer with Adam. They

562
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: decide that we've got to go to Apple Studios. I mean,

563
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: Adam is a complete beat or nut, you know, so

564
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: we've got to go to not Abbey Road, sorry, so

565
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: to Savile Row the Beatles, the Apple Studios to master

566
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: the record. And there's this great guy there called Porky Peckham,

567
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: George Peckham, who's probably one of the great mastering engineers.

568
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: He was used to He's known as Porky and he

569
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: you'd always his ascetates back. I've got a couple of them,

570
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: and he'd always scratched Porky into that, you know, or

571
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: else a pig sign so that, you know, very collectible

572
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: items now they go from thousands hundreds of thousands. But anyway, Um,

573
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: we went down there to see to see George and

574
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: you know, get on with the master and you know.

575
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: And I was allowed to come along that day to

576
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: have a listen in. And I walked through the door

577
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: and this burly guy kind of well I thought he

578
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: was burly anyway, sort of pushes me out the way

579
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: as he's coming, rushing out the door, and then turns

580
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: around and apologize and said, I'm sorry, man coming just

581
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: a clash of two people coming in the same door.

582
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: And it's Lennon and he told me and said, oh

583
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: my god, it's you. He said it's my smoking buddy.

584
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, Leo and he said, yeah, I

585
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: know you're. Leo says, said you're you're down in the

586
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: cutting room today he said, He said, I'm so glad

587
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: things happened to you. He said, can we finally can

588
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: we finally face up? He said, I'm a beatle, you know.

589
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 1: I said I know. And he said, good to see you. Man.

590
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: He gave me a big hug and went on his way.

591
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: People rushing him out the door and come on, John,

592
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: come on, and he's saying shut up and turning around

593
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: to give me a hug. It was quite sweet. You

594
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: talk about how influential Bob Dylan was to you told

595
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: us that, Yeah, I think I think. You know, I

596
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: had a cousin, an older cousin. Um, I'd never experienced

597
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan before, but I loved Woody Guthrie and you know, uh,

598
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: all these people that you know, Bob loved, you know,

599
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: the folk musicians. Um, I love what they were all doing,

600
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: rambling Jack Elliott, I'm I'm remembering all people like that

601
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: who were in Dylan's Psyche phil Oaks. You know, I

602
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: love what they were doing separately. And then my cousin,

603
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: my older cousin, went to stay with him in the Midlands,

604
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: in England, and he pulled out two records and he said,

605
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: because he had a record player and he was collecting stuff,

606
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: and I'd heard Bill Hailey and Elvis Presley with him,

607
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: you know, okay that was great, but I could hear

608
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: them anyway on the radio. And he he just bought

609
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: this record and it was Bob Dylan, the first Bob

610
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: Dylan record. So this is three well, I think sixty

611
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: two was the first one in America that was mostly

612
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: cover sixty two. Yeah, yeah, no, that's it's sixty two.

613
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: And so here's this record and I'm about fifteen sixteen

614
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: and something like that, maybe even younger. And he had

615
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: that record and he put it on and the voice

616
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: and the whole kind of I don't know almost the

617
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: anarchy of the whole thing. I mean, the guy couldn't

618
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: really sing great, but the voice was obviously put only

619
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: trying to sound like an old guy of sixty. Um.

620
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: But there's something gripping about it. And the songs, I mean,

621
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: fixing to die, Please see that my grave is kept clean,

622
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: the House of the Rising Sun. The songs were amazing,

623
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: and his songs as well, about you know about Woody Guthrie. UM.

624
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: So this this record just kind of stayed with me,

625
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: and I asked him if I could borrow it, and

626
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: he let me borrow it, and I take it back

627
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: and play it on Dad's radiogram, you know, those old

628
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: kind of systems that we had, and and listen to

629
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: it and listen to it, and it got into my bloodstream.

630
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: And then when the second record came out, which was

631
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: Free Wheeling, I was straight to the record store, you know,

632
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 1: using all my pocket money, all the money that I

633
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: I gained by getting paid for delivering church leaflets from

634
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: from the church, all that sort of stuff. You know,

635
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 1: I I um, I went and put all my hard

636
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: earned into buying that record. And it wasn't a disappointment.

637
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: He was even better because now he's writing more songs,

638
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: and or at least that you know, he's putting more

639
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: of his own songs on there, and he's got a

640
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: story to tell, and he's writting about Hattie Carroll and

641
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: people like that, and you know there's the protest songs.

642
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: Times were changing blind in the wind Man. This next

643
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: series of records that I had, every single one, brought

644
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: them all on the first day. I was absolutely totally

645
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: gluten and I thought, that's the man I want to be,

646
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: you know, when I finally grow up, that's who I'm

647
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: going to be. I'm going to get on the road.

648
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: Through him. I found Jack, Carol Akin and Alan Ginsberg

649
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: and you know all these great writers Steinberg, Steinbeck, you know,

650
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: John Steinbeck and Cannery Row. You know you're reading all

651
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: these things, Albert Camu, the outsiders. You know. I don't know,

652
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: I I just it opened up a whole world for me.

653
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: It opened up the world as well. That told me

654
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: that the spoken word, the poetry could be great as music.

655
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: You know, That's what it opened up for me. And

656
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: and I was trying to be a poet at the time,

657
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, I was always writing down, you know, everything

658
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: that I thought of and trying to kind of wax

659
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: lyrical into these lines and on the page. And suddenly,

660
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, some time later on, I think maybe

661
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,959
Speaker 1: even when I was first working with David Courtney, come

662
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: right there. I would look at these old old lyric books,

663
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: these old poetry books, and David would say, hey, I've

664
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: got an idea for a tune, you know, and and

665
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: he'd be playing away, you know, dump dumped, the dump dumped,

666
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: and don't don't don't on a piano, and I go,

667
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: I'm a one man band, you know, so and that

668
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: would come straight off the lyric sheet, you know, or

669
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: the poetry sheet. So I was using what I've written

670
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: between twelve and sixteen. That's was the first album that

671
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 1: was all of my poetry from those days, the basis

672
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: of those songs, the basis of the lyrics. Let's go

673
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: back to the beginning. Where did you grow up? Shore

674
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: on My Sea a little town between Worthing and Brighton

675
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: in Sussex, right on the English Channel, fifty miles south

676
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: of London. Yeah, on the coast. How far from Brighton?

677
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: It was in between, I say, about seven miles from

678
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: Brighton and about six miles from Worthy. The whole Branton

679
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: Mods and Rockers thing. Was that amplified in the media

680
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: or was that real and something you were aware of? Oh?

681
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: That was truly real? Yeah, yeah, I mean we England

682
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: basically had had of you know, after the war, which

683
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: costs England all its economy, you know, because it puts

684
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: so much into it. Even though your Yanks came over

685
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: and helped us out, we still had to pay for

686
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: so much ourselves. So I mean I grew up when

687
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: when I was fourteen years old, I still had a

688
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: ration car really, so there was still rationing of some things.

689
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: You know. I grew up without sugar. I've never had

690
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: very much for sweet tooth, so I think I'm getting

691
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: one hour's I'm getting older. But we didn't have candy

692
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: bars and things like that, you know, so it was

693
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: all very basic, rough stuff, and our our politics became

694
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: very safe, you know, very authoritarian. This is where the

695
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: Conservative Party came in um and basically you know, trying

696
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: to tell everybody we're so lucky to be free from war. Uh,

697
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: that we must kind of be prepared to do it hard.

698
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: So you've got a youth that came up in the

699
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: in the fifties, i'd say, and then into the sixties

700
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: that was very disgruntled. You know. They didn't understand why

701
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: when all the American kids had drive ins and and

702
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: rock music and and you know, girls were allowed to

703
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: wear bikinis, we didn't have that, you know, so they

704
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: they kind of, I don't know, they felt that they

705
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: were left out, you know. I mean when Rock around

706
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: the Clock with Bill Haley came out in England, it

707
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: was this phenomenon, you know that all the kids would

708
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: go to the cinema to watch it. Now, wow, can

709
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: they really get away with that? You know, so everybody's

710
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: dancing and jiving. Nobody would dance and jive in a

711
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: in a concert or anything in England. You know. It

712
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: took a little while and visits by Bill Halian, Eddie

713
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: Cochrane and gene of Vincent before that happened. Um, and

714
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: that was into the sixties, you know, fifties, the fifties,

715
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: none of that happened. So the early sixties descent in

716
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: the youth was growing in England and I suppose the

717
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: Mods grew out of that. I mean I was on

718
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: mod um at school. Uh, and then the slightly older

719
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: guys would be the Rockers. They had all the motorbikes,

720
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, the Mods took on the scooters just to

721
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: be different than than the rockers. And in Brighton, you know,

722
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: as the Mods came into being bands like the Small Faces,

723
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: the Kinks, um, you know, them playing the music that

724
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 1: the Mods liked, Um, the the there came a clash

725
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: of culture with use. You know. The rockers were teddy boys,

726
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: you know. They they kind of like live life, loud

727
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: and rough and very leathery, and the Mods were kind

728
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: of really stylish and bespoke, a little quieter spoken. I mean,

729
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: later we got skin heads out of Mods, but that's

730
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: a kind of different thing because that kind of almost

731
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: leads you to punk. But basically us Mods, I mean

732
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: we went to great tailors and had fabulous looking suits,

733
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: you know, in silky material and really cool shoes. We

734
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 1: wanted to look clean and bespoke, you know, rather than

735
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 1: the rockers who looked like they were covered in oil

736
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: from their motorbikes. So you had this clash going on,

737
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: and it all happened in Brighton, and the who I

738
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: suppose was the big mod band that I left out there,

739
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: and and and the who are kind of you know

740
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 1: with my talk about my generation describes it all. Really,

741
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: you know. I hope I die before I get old.

742
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: Did you have a scooter? No? No, I couldn't have

743
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: had one. I mean we had no money. That was

744
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: for rich mods. I had a bicycle. You're singing in church? Yeah,

745
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: Yet you want to be a fine artist. How do

746
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: you ultimately get into the music business? Happened really by accident.

747
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: I had a pretty good career as a graphic designer,

748
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: commercial artist, illustrator, even designed type typography. UM. I had

749
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: a pretty good career. I left art school after only

750
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: one year of a two year course. UM. I was

751
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: supposed to Uh, I was supposed to do longer and

752
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: I didn't, um I I. Um yeah. I cracked out

753
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: of that and got a job straight away. And all

754
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: of my friends at art school, UM were They was

755
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: still working around a very boring what I thought were

756
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: very boring graphics scores. Uh. And I had a job amazing.

757
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 1: I'll probably digress for a moment here, because I've worked

758
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: in a studio in Brighton. I had this gorgeous girl

759
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: that I fancied like mad in the studio who came

760
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: from Detroit and one day said her American boyfriend was

761
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: coming in to town. So she said, I'm going to

762
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: London and I said, what can I come with you?

763
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: And she said, yeah, I was looking for some companies,

764
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: so I'm thinking I'm in here. Of course I wasn't.

765
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: So we went up to the Strand Palace Hotel um

766
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: in Covent Garden and a big wooly head guy, tall

767
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: wooly head guy opened the door and immediately hustled her

768
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: into bedroom. I just sat on the sofa, I got

769
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: my harmonica out and started playing. And he stopped what

770
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: he was doing and rushed into the room, picked up

771
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: a guitar and started playing with me. And that was

772
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: Jimi Hendrix, who's just a little bit. What was Jimmy

773
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: Hendrix's girlfriend doing working with you in the art studio,

774
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: I don't know. She'd kind of come on some bad

775
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: times with the family and decided to move to England

776
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 1: and she was working very studios. She was pretty good,

777
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: good designer, good good illustrator as well, and we did

778
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: a couple of projects together, so you know, we got

779
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: on very well, and she just said, yeah, I used

780
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: to go with this guy as a rock as a

781
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: rock guitarist, but he had no money, so I gave up,

782
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: you know. But he was a good lover, so you know,

783
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 1: that was that was why she wanted to see him again.

784
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: And and so anyway, so me and James Marshall Hendrix

785
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: as he announced himself to me, or James Marshall, I

786
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 1: think he just called himself. Um, I didn't know who

787
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: he was, but we were we were playing. He's a

788
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: really good guitarists, great blues field and you know, and

789
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: we just play some blues together and he reckoned. I

790
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: could play the harmonica pretty good as well. And you know,

791
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 1: so we jammed away while she sat frustratedly sat by

792
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: the door until she dragged him back in the in

793
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: the bedroom. And then we we went back down to

794
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: to to Brighton, where we worked and where I was

795
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: living at the time, and she said cheerio, and I

796
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: didn't even get a kiss. And and and about four

797
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: weeks later, because he told me he'd come into London

798
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: on the invite to make a record by this guy

799
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: who was the bass player of the Animals who have

800
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: seen him play and all that, you know the story,

801
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: and so he made this record and I went to

802
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: my favorite records store in the in the in Brighton,

803
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: in the this area called the Lanes where she's just

804
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: walking streets and record shop called Fine Records. I remember

805
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: it so well because that's where I picked up most

806
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: of my material, you know. Um. I and there's this

807
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: massive poster on the on the on the wall, and

808
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: you know, and the record cover. I'm going, that's that guy,

809
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 1: and there he is, Jimi Hendrix. And about a week later,

810
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: I'm in London and I go with some friends to

811
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: a club called the Speakeasy because i've I've just done

812
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: the record cover for a group called Humble Pie, which

813
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 1: was Peter Frampton and and uh Steve Marriott from Faces

814
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: from the Small Faces and I think it was Greg Ridley,

815
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: the bass player. When I've done the you know, did

816
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: the cover and the photos of the cover, I kind

817
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: of got chatting to him and he gave me his

818
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: his we didn't have mobiles in those days, his home number,

819
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: and I phoned him and he said, oh, if you

820
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: in London, you know, let's hook up. And and then

821
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: he said to me said he you know, we all

822
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: go into the speakeasy. Do you want to come? And

823
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 1: so I said, yeah, yeah. So I went down there

824
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: and walking onto the stage, there's all these guitarists, They're

825
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: all the major guitarists are in the room at the time,

826
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: I'm going, wow, you know, that's Sarah Clapton over there,

827
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: that's Jeff Beck, and that's Steve how from Yes and

828
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: all these guys are there, you know, and I'm you know,

829
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: just constract. I think it's Harry Nilson who was doing

830
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: the Big U. But halfway through Harry's set, on walks

831
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: Jimmy and I'm in the front row, you know, and

832
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm feeling kind of embarrassed. And I look up at

833
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: him and he recognized me, and he jumped off the

834
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: stage and gave me a hug. And all these guys,

835
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: I look at me, who's he And I just say, yeah,

836
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: I know him, Yeah, yeah. I remember Jeff Beck sidling

837
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: up to me and said, hey, do you know And

838
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: I told him the story. He said, you lucky bastard,

839
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: and that was it. You know. There you go, being

840
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: in the right place at the right time. Sorry, I

841
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: digressed and digressions digressions of the space of life. Don't

842
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: worry about it. I'm a famous digressor. You played the

843
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: Harmonic with Jimmy Hendrix. Ya. How do you ultimately start

844
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: a music career? I was, as I say, doing commercial art.

845
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: I was in London. Um, I took on a studio

846
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: in in Hammersmith and and you know, we rented it

847
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: big studio space, and I had a lot of artist friends,

848
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: mostly illustrators. You know. I should say that I did

849
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: some record covers in this time. I did uh, Bob

850
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: Marley covers, clubs, scar covers, yeah again for Humble Pie

851
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: and people like that. You know, a lot of Ireland

852
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: Records traffic a lot of those bands at the time,

853
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,919
Speaker 1: you know, so I kind of and every now and then,

854
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: like with Greg, I'd get to meet some of the

855
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: guys in the band, you know. So, so I was

856
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: kind of close to that. But anyway, I booked this.

857
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: I had this huge studio and I had a lot

858
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: of artists who were working with me. And I wasn't

859
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: very good at collecting money. I've never been a good

860
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: businessman in my whole life, which comes to another part

861
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: of the story later. But uh, and I ran out

862
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: of money and I couldn't pay for the studio and

863
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't pay the rent, and it was up to

864
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: me to do that. So I don't know, I just

865
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: kind of I left the keys on the doorset one

866
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 1: day and I just I left. I left it of

867
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: the guys left them a long note saying, you know,

868
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: if you really want to carry on with this place,

869
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 1: you've got to come up with the rent, and up

870
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 1: to you. You know. I think that they they caved

871
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: in and didn't bother when they found out how much

872
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 1: the rent was, you know, because they've been all there

873
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: on the cheap. They were just paying me, you know,

874
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: a smidge in to be in there. And I was

875
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: just gladly giving them a space because it was a

876
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: creative hub. And I got work out of it as well,

877
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: you know, some work. But as it was drying up,

878
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, there was no option and no money, so

879
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 1: I had to leave and I packed up my flat.

880
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: I went back to my hometown. I had some friends

881
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: who had a houseboat. They lived on a houseboat um

882
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: on the River Raida, the river that went through Shoreham

883
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: and just near the sea the mouth of the river.

884
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: This is lovely houseboat. And I stayed on the houseboat

885
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: for a year. I had a nervous breakdown. Really I

886
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 1: I couldn't draw and paint any longer. My graphic abilities

887
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: just passed me by. But luckily, at the same time

888
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: as He's marvelous cusps in one's life happened a bunch

889
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: of friends came to see me on the houseboat. One

890
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: of them we lived on a houseboat a little bit

891
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: further way of the mate of mind from school, and

892
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: he was now long haired and planning guitar, and so

893
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: he said, oh, I've got a blues group. I said, oh,

894
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: that's great. I play harmonica, and so he said, yeah, well,

895
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: why don't get together for a jam next week, you know?

896
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: So we did and we started a band immediately, and

897
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: because I had its loud voice, I was the singer.

898
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: And we went from band to band to band to band,

899
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: and eventually a guitarist who I really liked working with,

900
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 1: who was top notch in the local musicians um, who

901
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: also wrote songs, came and lived on the houseboat with me.

902
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: He was he had the next the next room on

903
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: the boat, big old boat it was, and we started

904
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: writing songs together and we decided to go. We had

905
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: a band and we decided to go to an audition,

906
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: and we went to the audition. It was for the

907
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: you'd have heard of the Melody Maker of course in England,

908
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: the famous newspaper. So they had a battle of the

909
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: bands going on. So they did it as areas and

910
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: so southwest. I think we were called that area, which

911
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: was Kent and Surrey and Sussex um and we won.

912
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: We won our heat. But the thing was so badly

913
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: organized that in the end I think that they they

914
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: press gained a couple of bands from London and forgot

915
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: about our heat that winners, you know, and we got

916
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: to have pushed out. We never even went to the

917
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: final show. So frustrated with that, we saw another ad.

918
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: We saw an advertisement um in the local paper, the

919
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: Evening Arcuts, and it was saying, you know bands, bands, acts, artists, comedians, conjurers, whatever,

920
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, a new talent agency is starting. There will

921
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: be a big audition at the Pavilion Theater on Saturday

922
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: that da da da da da dah. This is in.

923
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:04,919
Speaker 1: And we turned up at the audition and we went

924
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: on stage, probably the last people to go on. There

925
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: were lots of bands, uh, no audience in the theater

926
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: you know, just all the bands watching each other, and

927
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: we went on last, and the guy was holding the

928
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: audition ran over and just said, you're it. And we

929
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: sang a song I remember called Gypsy Dancer that me

930
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 1: and Max Chetwynd, the guitarists, wrote together, and he stopped

931
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: us halfway through and just said start that again. And

932
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: we started again, and then he stopped us halfway through

933
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: and he said start there again. And I think he

934
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 1: was checking that we could play it, you know, and

935
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: he just turned around he said, I'm going to give

936
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 1: you a job straight away. I want to manage you.

937
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: Your voice is amazing, you know, And all of the

938
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: other people just sidled out the room and it was

939
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: left with us, and there we were, and Patches was

940
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: the name of the band, and I don't know started

941
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 1: getting talking to David's and he told me he didn't

942
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: really want to manage a band. It was just his

943
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: dad's idea. You know. His dad was fairly wealthy, and

944
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: his dad wanted him to do something legitimate. And he'd

945
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: played drums before for this guy called Adam Faith. It

946
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: was a pop singer. So one day he said, after

947
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: we'd tried a few different avenues, and David and I

948
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: had started writing songs together, me all based as I

949
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 1: said before, on those old lyric books, those old poetry books,

950
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, putting my lyrics in there. And he had

951
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: these kind of beach boys kind of come Beatles kind

952
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 1: of pop uh melodies that I would put my acerbic

953
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: lyrics to, and and we had something. And I was

954
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: a ying and yang kind of thing. It was very interesting.

955
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: There was these kind of very almost sad autobiographical lyrics

956
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: going with these bright kind of um but very dramatic

957
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: kind of melodies. So we had something I think that

958
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: was quite unique. It was a bit like I suppose

959
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: Bernie Taupin and Elton John could be. Because again you're

960
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: meeting I suppose I had some eloquence to me, and

961
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: David was had this kind of pop musicality, you know,

962
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: which is very much Elson and Bernie, you know. Um. Anyway,

963
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: we went to see Adam and I thought he wasn't

964
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: very interested. I was left to sit in the car

965
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: while he and David pow world. And then he came

966
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: running out to the car and he said, right, I've

967
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 1: booked you in the studio tomorrow. That's it. Get the

968
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: band together. So I went straight back, got all the

969
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 1: guys together, said come on, we've got to get the van.

970
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 1: Mike the drummer, had to take a day off work

971
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,720
Speaker 1: and get the van kind of filled up with petrol,

972
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: which was quite a job in those days because we

973
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: didn't have any money. Throw all the gear in the

974
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: back of the van and straight up to uh, straight

975
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 1: up to Olympic studios and yeah, and then we were

976
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: making a record. You know, we're not knowing what we

977
00:54:57,560 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: were doing. I think the drummer turned out to be

978
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: pretty app And in the next room the Who were recording,

979
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: and I don't think Daughtry was there or Towns was there,

980
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: but Entwhistle and Who and Moon were there, and Adam

981
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: called Mooney in during a break and he actually played

982
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: the drums on that first single while So and Meet

983
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 1: the drummer came in and listened to it. You know,

984
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: Keith wasn't there, but he's listening to a Playbank going yeah,

985
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: I did pretty well there. It was the same part,

986
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: but it was much better played, you know. So um,

987
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's kind of it's funny when

988
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: you look back at those times. We really didn't know

989
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: what we were doing. I mean David and I. We

990
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: sang a song on the B I sang a song

991
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: on the B side that we've both written together. The

992
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: A side was David's song Living in America. I think

993
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: the folks in America they got it good in America.

994
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: Not my lyric, you know, but it was it was fun.

995
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,760
Speaker 1: You know, here we were suddenly you're looking at another

996
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: career because Adam. You know, one of the powerful things

997
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: about Adam was that if he said something was going

998
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: to happen, he had the ability to make it happen.

999
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: He had incredible contacts in the in the in the business,

1000
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: in the whole world of show business, and in the media.

1001
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: You know, he could just open doors. Remember once with him,

1002
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: just after Patches had been a single, Living in America

1003
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: had been released, we strode up to Radio one. Radio

1004
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: one was the big sort of you know, the big

1005
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: real McCoy BBC. Radio one was was the biggest broadcast broadcaster,

1006
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: biggest station. And on Sunday they used to read out

1007
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: the charts. Everybody would tune in the whole country. The

1008
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: audience ratings were off the wall, you know. So Alan

1009
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: Freeman is upstairs halfway through the charts, when Adam turns

1010
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: up with this young aick um and and his new

1011
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: album and his new single sorry and meets the job's

1012
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: worth at the door. We called him job's worth, it's

1013
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: more than my jobs will to let you in here, Mr.

1014
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: But but no they actually Adam faith and well, I'm

1015
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: going up to see Alan Freeman and said, well, of course,

1016
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: of course, go on up, so he knew where to go.

1017
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: We walked straight in the red lighters on on the

1018
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: door outside and his producer is kind of looking at

1019
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: us rather alarmed, but we breathe in and Adams says,

1020
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: take that rubbish off and put this on. This is

1021
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: your next and that was it. We get our first airing,

1022
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, on on the Alan Freeman Show Sunday night

1023
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 1: with the biggest audience in England watching. Okay, that's relieve

1024
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: the fantastic. But then the record stiff, the record still stiff. Yeah,

1025
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 1: I mean I think fifty copies. I think my mom

1026
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: brought twenty. Um, yeah, fifty copies were sold. I think fifty.

1027
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: It was on the Warner label, um, Warner Brothers label. Uh.

1028
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: But but Adam wasn't daunted. I mean, the whole thing

1029
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: was not happening, but he just said, let's go on

1030
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: and make the album. So he'd met Richard Branson, you know,

1031
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: the Virgin guy of course. Um, of course was just

1032
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:20,919
Speaker 1: I mean Richard just had a record store in those

1033
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: days and a record label that he just started, and

1034
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: he bought this crazy studio, this manor house with a

1035
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: barn next to it in Oxfordshire called the Manor, and

1036
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: lots of people recording up there, you know, Van Morrison,

1037
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: the Grand Bond Organization. Uh. And he had an engineer,

1038
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: Tom Newman there who was working on a little project

1039
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: by this unknown guy called Mike Oldfield and it was

1040
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: she ended up being called Tubular Bells, and that was

1041
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: going on at the same time, and you know, Mike

1042
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: was in the studio when we weren't in the studio,

1043
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: and me and Patches were in the studio most days

1044
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: and then Michael take over and do the Witching Hour

1045
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: at night. We were all staying at the place. You know,

1046
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: Michael was very friendly. Um, I didn't really understand his record.

1047
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: It sounded very a bit silly to me at that stage,

1048
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: but of course, you know, when it was finally finished,

1049
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: it was awesome, you know, changed the world kind of

1050
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: thing um. But you know, sometimes when the records being made,

1051
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: you don't understand it. Likewise, Michael would kind of come

1052
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: into our sessions and say, said, your band is not

1053
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: very good, are they I say, yeah, I know, but

1054
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: I mean we we're learning, you know, we're learning, and

1055
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: Adam's going to sort it out. Well. About four or

1056
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: five days in Adams sacked the band and broad in

1057
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,880
Speaker 1: session players. And this was awful for me because my

1058
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: friends were leaving out the door and you know, and

1059
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,439
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there on my own with David. Of course,

1060
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 1: David's my friend, but these are all new people. You know, Leo,

1061
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: what are you doing? And I'm trying to be Leo

1062
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: Sarah at the same time, because we've come up with

1063
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: the name Leo. So Jerry has become Leo Sarah And

1064
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: okay a little bit slower. Why not Jerry because I

1065
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: as known as Jerry the harmonica player. I used to

1066
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: sit in with bands with Georgie Fame and you know,

1067
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: and I play with people like Ginger Baker and in

1068
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: in in Alexis Corner's blues band, and I used to

1069
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: see Bill Wyman a lot. I sat in with so

1070
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: many bands, you know, Um, there were the you know,

1071
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: in the rhythm and blues time. I once got up

1072
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: with John Mayle. I played with Muddy Waters and a

1073
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: folk club, you know, um, and everybody, oh, there's Jerry

1074
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: the harmonica player. And I thought, oh god, I can't

1075
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 1: be known as Jerry the harmonica player. And I was

1076
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: and I was going into a new world, you know.

1077
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: Here I was suddenly with this guy who was a

1078
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: bloody pop star, you know, a huge star. I was

1079
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: doing television series at the time, Adam Faith. Everybody knew

1080
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: Adam Faith, and already there was an article in the

1081
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 1: press about this Adam Faith that discovered this new talent.

1082
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: And of course, a few weeks later, you know, the

1083
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 1: Roger Daughtry album is released. So but that's a very

1084
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 1: significant but that's later. Yeah, that's later. I'll get into

1085
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: that later. And of course, you know what I was

1086
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: gonna say is, eventually Daltry will be selling Leo Saya

1087
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: as his coat, as his songwriter. You see. So that's

1088
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: kind of relevant in a way to mention that. Now.

1089
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: But I had all these people around me that were

1090
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: really believing in me. So here we are at the Manor,

1091
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: I've got all these session guys come in, they play amazing.

1092
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: Suddenly the songs are soaring. Suddenly we're really doing well.

1093
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 1: And then Adam Face just turned around and said, look,

1094
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: I can't afford to do any more recording. Um, you know,

1095
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: I just don't have the budget. So we stopped. And

1096
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: then we were down in Brighton. I think I put

1097
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: on a gig and and and Adam brought a guy

1098
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: along called Keith Altham and very famous music writer and

1099
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: publicists later publicists for the Beatles, the Stones, the Trogs,

1100
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: Jimi Hendrix, of course famous for being the guy that

1101
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: persuaded Hendrix to set light to his guitar. Um. Keith

1102
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: came down to see the band. He was writing an

1103
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: article about me in the New Musical Express and which

1104
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: was a fabulous article, which again it was a little

1105
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: bit of a thing to live up to. But he

1106
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: saw the band and he said, look, Roger Daughtry, he

1107
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: was looking after the who at the time. He said,

1108
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: Rogers built a studio and he needs a guinea pick

1109
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: to try it out. You're looking for a place to work.

1110
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: Let me give Roger a call. So he gave Roger

1111
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,439
Speaker 1: a call and he came back and said, yeah, Roger says,

1112
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: you guys come up to the studio, you don't have

1113
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: to pay, you know, It's like you can have it

1114
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: for free. He'd just be delighted to have someone try

1115
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: out the room. So and you can stay next door.

1116
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 1: There's a little pub called the Kicking Donkey, and you

1117
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: can stay at the Kicking Donkey, which we did, and

1118
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: we went up then started recording, and the second part

1119
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 1: of silver Bird was made in that way without Adam

1120
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: having to shell out any more money. And you know,

1121
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: everything was kind of he's and breezy and and it

1122
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: was lovely working at Roger's. And it was also great

1123
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: spending time with this rock icon who turned out to

1124
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: be the nicest guy, you know. I mean, there was

1125
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 1: a connection you see, with Adam, which was very good

1126
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: because Adam Faith and Roger Daltrey were born on the

1127
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,959
Speaker 1: same street in acting. You know, Adam a few years

1128
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: older of course, so these guys will be had lots

1129
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 1: to talk about. They talked the same language, they had

1130
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: the same accent, you know, so that the connection was

1131
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: a dream connection, you know. And then one day Roger

1132
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 1: just turned around and said, look I love these songs.

1133
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: You know, um, before you finish it all up. Have

1134
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: you got any more songs that you haven't put on

1135
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: the album? And and David and I said, well, yeah,

1136
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 1: we've cut loads. You know, we're we're even writing for

1137
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: the next album. He said, could you give me some

1138
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,919
Speaker 1: of the songs? And we said what, and he said, yeah,

1139
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 1: I want to make a solo album. Roger Peter has

1140
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: made a solo album. Big Townsend has made a solo album,

1141
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 1: So I want to do one. I want to show

1142
01:03:58,200 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: him he's not the only one who can go solo.

1143
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: So he said yeah, right. So David and I looked

1144
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: at the list of songs we had and we got

1145
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: the tapes out, the old Grundig tapes that we've made

1146
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 1: of these things, and yeah, we we decided we had

1147
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: quite enough and we talked to Adam about the idea

1148
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: and he said, it's great, it's a good idea. I'll

1149
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: produce it Roger. Roger wanted Adam and David to produce it,

1150
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: do it in the same style, and do it there

1151
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: in the studio. So that's how they started off, and

1152
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: they made the Daughtry album. Decided to hold up my album.

1153
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: So my album is already a year old when the

1154
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: Daughtry album came out, decided to hold it up because,

1155
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: as Adams said, and Roger agreed, Look, you know you

1156
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: can do more good for Leo by telling everybody about

1157
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: this songwriter. He said, yeah, if it's a hit, everybody

1158
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 1: will want to know anyway, and Giving It All Away

1159
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: hit the top twenty I think on top forty or

1160
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: something in America, went into the chart there and when

1161
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: is the charts in England? The album went into the

1162
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: charts in England. So everybody was talking about Roger Daltrey's

1163
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: solo album when it came out, and and everybody was

1164
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: talking about this song right, and so was Roger. And

1165
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: every interview said, wait, do you meet this guy. He's fantastic,

1166
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: what a talent, great voice as well. His songs are fantastic.

1167
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: I just had to do them, you know this, This

1168
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: was it. So I had Roger Daltrey, the lead singer

1169
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: of the Who, probably the biggest band in the world

1170
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:35,439
Speaker 1: at that time, you know, as my publicist. Not Bad

1171
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: Ain't That's how I found out about you. I bought

1172
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: that album Giving It All Away one and bad That's

1173
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: why I don't buy your record, absolutely really yeah, So

1174
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: so that all kind of opened up the doors. And

1175
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: then when we released my record, the reaction was fantastic.

1176
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: So you could say it all happened overnight. I mean

1177
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 1: he didn't, as he's can tell from the album being

1178
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: held up a year the longest station took towards it.

1179
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't all that simple, but when it

1180
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: was released, it all happened so quick. You know. I

1181
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 1: went on tour with Roxy Music supporting them. We want

1182
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: to tour in England? Who put that bill together? Because

1183
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: I don't see the music as being in the same spectrum,

1184
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: well in a way, you know in England, Um, you

1185
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: had let's take it. I always use that term rack jobbing,

1186
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, when every everybody's in the same I mean

1187
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: we live in a rack jobbing world, now, don't we.

1188
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: I mean your radio show would should not appeal to

1189
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 1: someone doing heavy metal and vice versa. But in the

1190
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: seventies in England, if everything went together, you know, there

1191
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: was no categorization. Um, people wanted variety. You know, England

1192
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: had grown up and think as well. And it's an

1193
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: important thing to say this, we've grown up. All of

1194
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: our American acts that came over came over in package

1195
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 1: to us. So you know, you'd get Freddie and the

1196
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 1: Dreamers on the same bill as Eddie Cochrane and Buddy Holly,

1197
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: and you'd get Desert Connor, who was basically a crooner,

1198
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: on the same bill as as Buddy Holly. You know,

1199
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: Daz has got Buddy's last guitar. Um des sadly has died.

1200
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: Now I think the guitars belonged to somebody else, but

1201
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, Buddy gave him the guitar. They were on

1202
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: tour together and you'd get these package acts, you know,

1203
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: so we saw everybody together. So I think England was

1204
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: really into you know, a variety show kind of you know,

1205
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: live thing very much. Comedians on with the Beatles were

1206
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: always opened up by comedians, you know, and the Beatles

1207
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 1: would open up for comedians or classic singers like Shirley Bassie,

1208
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, people like that. So our radio wasn't so

1209
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: uh kind of programmed out to kind of think that

1210
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 1: a novelty song would be played right next to Status

1211
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: Quo or something like that, you know. And so I

1212
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: think in the English audience is wanted to be surprised

1213
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: on stage and we were. That bill was put together

1214
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 1: by a chrysalists agency. We were with Chrysalis Records, and

1215
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 1: the Chrysalists agency looked after Roxy music and me, so

1216
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: they put they put it together. After after one show

1217
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: where I wasn't getting really much reaction, I decided to

1218
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 1: dress like the record cover, the Piero, the white face.

1219
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 1: So we had the same team who had helped me

1220
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: get that image together for the record cover. The back

1221
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: of the record cover inspired by this amazing movie called

1222
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: Les Enfante Parody, which I had loved as a as

1223
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: an art student, where this guy, director Marcel Khan, had

1224
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 1: got John Louis Baptiste, this amazing French actor, to portray

1225
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: himself as the Piero, like Piero and and Harlequin, the

1226
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: famous French stories in this movie made during the last

1227
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 1: year of the German occupation of Paris of France, and

1228
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: it's an amazing movie. Um, and I love this character

1229
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: and when I I'm digressing again. But I'll give you

1230
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: the background to how it no no keep going, I

1231
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 1: keep going, and how that came about. Roger Daughtry had

1232
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: a cousin, Graham Hughes, wonderful photographer who shot the Daughtry cover. UM,

1233
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,160
Speaker 1: and Roger suggested I went to see Graham, which I

1234
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,640
Speaker 1: did in London, and I went to a studio and

1235
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: he'd just been doing a photo shoot, a fashion photo

1236
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: shoot for Vogue magazine. And in the background, well, there

1237
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 1: was a girl that remember the Rocky Horror Show. There

1238
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: was a girl called Little Little Nell who was this

1239
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: amazing actress and character in the Rocky Horror Show. She

1240
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 1: was in the shoot. And that guy played Frank and

1241
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 1: Furter Um he was in the current member his name

1242
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: of the actor, you know. He was in the shoot

1243
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 1: with these models, and in the background was a piero.

1244
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 1: And Graham's straightaway. For those in America, we're talking about

1245
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: a clown, a clown, yeah, but but the French piero

1246
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: is different than the happens for those out of the loop.

1247
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, yeah, Well, if we talk about clowns, you've

1248
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: got two different clowns. You've got three clowns. Really that

1249
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:21,360
Speaker 1: you've got Ill Paliarchi, okay, is the white faced, sad

1250
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 1: narrator of most of those operas. Ill Paliarci is kind

1251
01:10:26,439 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: of he's a fool, but as well, he's a wise fool.

1252
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: In France, Piero is the moralizer, he's the teller, of

1253
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:39,879
Speaker 1: the story. Harlequin is the bad, mischievous guy in England.

1254
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 1: You've got Coco, the clown as famous for all the circuits.

1255
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: So he's just there to entertain the kids. He's a

1256
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: guy with makeup on, basically, not much more than that.

1257
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: Um but Piero is a very serious character. He'll tell

1258
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: you a story and you you're inclined to believe him

1259
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 1: because he's he's expressionless in his face and he usually

1260
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: tells the story and mine ala Marcel Marcel. You know,

1261
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: Marcel Marceau took on the Piero character and basically told

1262
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:12,799
Speaker 1: his story and mime. He was a mime artist. Um so,

1263
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: so I loved Piero for this kind of blank faced

1264
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: guy that you would listen to what he'd say. He

1265
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: would the storyteller, and I was a storyteller. In my songs,

1266
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: they were all about me, you know at that time,

1267
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 1: they're all about my life. Um silver Bird and Just

1268
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: a Boy are basically autobiographical albums. Yeah, they were all

1269
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: Leo telling you his story. Okay, so you got to

1270
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 1: the photo shoot and you see the Piero in the background. Yeah,

1271
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 1: I see this picture, and Graham says, at the same moment,

1272
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: So how do you see yourself then? Because he knows

1273
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: all about me from roger Um And I said, like that,

1274
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just instantly reaction and point to

1275
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: the piero and he said, great, that's Julian. He said,

1276
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 1: he's from Belgium. He's a street clown and basically he's

1277
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: here for a few days. Why don't I bring him

1278
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 1: in tomorrow? And he said you could try on his

1279
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 1: outfit and I went, well, okay, yeah, you know, it's

1280
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a fad of company, isn't it.

1281
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: You know. I wish I had my big mouth. But

1282
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 1: and he's got this makeup girl called Kirsty Climo, who was, Ah,

1283
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 1: she's one of the best theatrical makeup girls in the world.

1284
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: And she was a friend of his, and he said,

1285
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring Kirsty. And I knew of Kirsty

1286
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:36,560
Speaker 1: already because of friends of mine who were actors, and

1287
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: I went for Kirsty client he said, yeah, yeah, she's great,

1288
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 1: I'll get her in. She can do the makeup. She

1289
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,679
Speaker 1: she knows how to do Piro because she'd done Pally

1290
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 1: Archie for the opera, you know, so hey, come on,

1291
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: you know, so I had her, and I had this

1292
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: wonderful beautiful guy, Julian with his with his suit. The

1293
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: only glitch was he was about six ft tall or so.

1294
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: So basically most of them. You see the gatefold inside

1295
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: cover if anybody's got that of Silver Bird, and you'll

1296
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: see me kind of crouching down, and that's because the

1297
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: trousers are pinned up, you know. You can't see the

1298
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:15,640
Speaker 1: pinning for the sort of like the bodice over the

1299
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:19,480
Speaker 1: top covering it, you know. But but that was it. Um,

1300
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 1: and I was in his suit and they wouldn't let

1301
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: me look in the mirror, okay, until it was all done.

1302
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 1: Kirsty was about an hour putting the makeup together, and

1303
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:31,799
Speaker 1: Julian was kind of fussing with the suit and getting

1304
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: it right, and they found me that somebody went out

1305
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,599
Speaker 1: and found some white dance shoes from Cabizio and they

1306
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:42,280
Speaker 1: put on me and Um, Kirstie had developed this black

1307
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: bathing cap and cut with the little pointed bit in

1308
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 1: the middle, you know, perfectly to fit. So all this

1309
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:52,679
Speaker 1: is I think they brought a hairstylist to make sure

1310
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: that the hair was all pinned in because I had

1311
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 1: a huge hair at that time, you know. So finally

1312
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: Graham is all a jumping up and down. He says,

1313
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:03,839
Speaker 1: this is incredible. You look at me. I can't see myself.

1314
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: All I can do is feel this awful white Lechner

1315
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 1: panstick makeup all across my face, and I know my

1316
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: hands are in gloves. I feel like my body has

1317
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:16,679
Speaker 1: been taken away somewhere. You know. It's like weird, weird,

1318
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: weird weird, but it's exciting at the same time. And

1319
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: I've literally metamorphosized. I mean, you're talking about Jerry becoming

1320
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 1: Leo Sayah, he became Leo Saya at that moment, you see,

1321
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: because there's no way that Jerry could ever be recognized again.

1322
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: So I walk out. They right, Grahams has finished, and

1323
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 1: I walk out, and I walk out in front of

1324
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:44,679
Speaker 1: this full length mirror, a whole huge, great, big mirrored

1325
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: glass plane pain and I see myself and I just said, yes,

1326
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: that's it. I can go on like this. And it

1327
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: was just incredible that we did the photo shoot, and

1328
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 1: you know, afterwards, took off the makeup and Cursty said,

1329
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: he looked amazing. She said, when when you decide to

1330
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 1: do it for real, I'll be there. I said, for real,

1331
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: I thought we were just doing the photo and it

1332
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: was clicking with me that I was, yeah, becoming somebody else.

1333
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:18,680
Speaker 1: So we did the first Roxy show and I was

1334
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: just went on in jeans and nice shirt, you know,

1335
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Nobody really noticed. They all talked and

1336
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 1: waited for Roxy to come on. You know, Brian Eno

1337
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,799
Speaker 1: had left the band, by the way, at that time,

1338
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 1: he was the very much I suppose in a way,

1339
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 1: Brian used to dress up in a similar kind of

1340
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: over the top way. So the so the glam rock

1341
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,920
Speaker 1: crowd would like to come for him, you know, um,

1342
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 1: but Roxy would being a bit more serious. Now. You know,

1343
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: Brian was in a white tuxedo. They're all looking very sophisticated. Um.

1344
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:54,080
Speaker 1: And the second gig, I'm in my dressing room, I'm

1345
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 1: making up and we're putting in the outfit. My wife,

1346
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:01,479
Speaker 1: Janice now has made the suit for me, um, and

1347
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 1: she's a really good seamstress. So I had this fabulous

1348
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 1: kind of satin silk suit with the little you know,

1349
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 1: the three velcro stuck on bobbles, you know that you've

1350
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 1: got on the front, the red spots for the cheeks.

1351
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 1: The eyes were dramatically done, the black bathing cap in place,

1352
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: well pinned, and the gloves on and the white shoes

1353
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: and I walk out in front of the band and

1354
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 1: there's this reaction from the audience. We're playing Sheffield City Hall.

1355
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 1: I think it absolutely packed because Roxy are a big band.

1356
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:38,920
Speaker 1: You know, they don't know who LEAs Sarah is really.

1357
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:43,959
Speaker 1: But the moment I woke up, there's and someone shouted

1358
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 1: he knows back and the I played five songs in silence.

1359
01:16:55,400 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: There wasn't applause, there wasn't anything, and there wasn't a

1360
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 1: murmur anybody. Nobody was talking in the room. Everybody was

1361
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,120
Speaker 1: just craning their eyes to see. And I didn't say

1362
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 1: a word. I just sang five songs and with the

1363
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 1: mime and the hands going all over the place, just

1364
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 1: like you've seen in the videos. And then I said

1365
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: thank you very much, and all of a sudden, the

1366
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: place broke out into applause. All of Roxy music or

1367
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:26,560
Speaker 1: on the side of the stage watching this, by the way,

1368
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 1: and the chance started. They started shouting Leo, Leo, Leo.

1369
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: This is all on the first night of the clown.

1370
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: It was just incredible. And they were still shouting Leo

1371
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:41,640
Speaker 1: when Roxy went on, so they weren't very happy with me,

1372
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 1: but I carried on the tour. Brian actually thought it

1373
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 1: was great. He kept coming up to me and saying,

1374
01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 1: fabulous image, fabulous image. So we we went on the

1375
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:52,800
Speaker 1: tour and we went, you know, we completed the tour

1376
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,679
Speaker 1: almost we gone into France. I think we played a

1377
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:58,440
Speaker 1: couple of gigs in France, we played some in Germany,

1378
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: and then the management just turned around said you've got

1379
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 1: to get him off the tour. He's getting too much applause.

1380
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 1: And my record was rocketing up the charts. The show

1381
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:08,639
Speaker 1: must go on, and their record was not doing so well.

1382
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:12,759
Speaker 1: So yeah, but that was my That was how it started. Okay,

1383
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 1: so you finished the tour with Roxy Music. What's the

1384
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: next step. Well, we went on a tour. You know,

1385
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:22,599
Speaker 1: now we're now we're appearing as the Piero and everything's

1386
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,679
Speaker 1: going well. The records are hit, the album's are hit.

1387
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 1: So I toured England and then we just got this

1388
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 1: invite from already we were we were with Warner Brothers

1389
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 1: in America, so we just got this invite from I

1390
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: think it was I can't remember the agency, but to

1391
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:46,080
Speaker 1: come and do do the States and arrived in Los Angeles. Um,

1392
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 1: we had all the makeup and the outfits of course

1393
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 1: ready to go. And Terry O. Neil is my photographer

1394
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: by this time. So the first thing we did was

1395
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,320
Speaker 1: go down to Santa Monica Pia and do lots of show,

1396
01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: lots of shots of the piero and and I think

1397
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: that they used that as publicity because nobody knew what

1398
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: I really who, what I really looked like, which was

1399
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: quite interesting. In America, they'd never seen Leo Saya apart

1400
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 1: from the record cover and and and of course the

1401
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:20,280
Speaker 1: piero on the back. And I went straight to Memphis

1402
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:26,639
Speaker 1: where we started playing in a club supporting jjkle. Um.

1403
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:30,839
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was called the Mississippi something alright,

1404
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 1: just outside Memphis. And again the reaction just started went

1405
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 1: through the roof. You know, it's just incredible. Everybody's loving

1406
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 1: this thing. J. J kle didn't know what to make

1407
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 1: of me. He used to perform with hardly any lights on,

1408
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, and we had to bring in lights for

1409
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 1: my show because he just didn't have enough. Um, but

1410
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,560
Speaker 1: it just went mad. We had a week in Memphis,

1411
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 1: then it was a week in Boston. And then it

1412
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:59,679
Speaker 1: was just all over the country. We ended up going

1413
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: to the bottom Line in New York um and hit

1414
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 1: all the papers there. You know, the record started to

1415
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 1: be a success. At the same time, Three Dog Night

1416
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 1: have recorded The Show Must Go On and that's higher

1417
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 1: up in the charts. Oh, they decided just not to

1418
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: release my single, I think because the Three Dog Night

1419
01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: was version of The Show Must Go On, which still

1420
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: annoys me, because they were singing we must let the

1421
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 1: show go on, whereas the song is I won't let

1422
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 1: the show go on, you know in the chorus, you know.

1423
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 1: But there and they had circus clowns, you know, going

1424
01:20:31,240 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: back to Cocoa the clown. You know, they've seen me

1425
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 1: performing in in London. I think at Top of the

1426
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 1: Pops they're probably on the same show and or else

1427
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 1: watched it on the TV and thought, hey, let's cover

1428
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: that song. So that's what they did, and you know, um, oh, well,

1429
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: you know it's they just didn't quite get it, I

1430
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:53,840
Speaker 1: don't think. But it didn't matter. There was a hit,

1431
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, and that was the American tour. We just

1432
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 1: everywhere we went. By the time we got to Los

1433
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 1: Angeles and Robert Hillban was writing about us, and then

1434
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: San Francisco where Ben Fong Torres was writing and rolling

1435
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: Stone about me. You know, you couldn't climb any higher,

1436
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,880
Speaker 1: really it was. It was quite an incredible um. I

1437
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 1: began a friendship with with with Ben actually at that time,

1438
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: you know, which followed me all the way through my career.

1439
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: So har does Long Talk Glasses end up becoming a

1440
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,719
Speaker 1: huge check While we were there on that first tour,

1441
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 1: I think we recorded one man band. I do believe

1442
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:31,400
Speaker 1: that's Rykuda playing acoustic guitar on that Wow. Because Adam

1443
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 1: tried to do some recording out there, didn't tell me

1444
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 1: about it. Of course, this is typically what he'd do.

1445
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 1: He just went into a studio, here's this song. I'll

1446
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: play it to you and see what you can make

1447
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,880
Speaker 1: of it, you know. So so, but we eventually came

1448
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 1: back and started recording the album. Uh, straight after that

1449
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: American tour. The rest of four was spent in the studio,

1450
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:58,479
Speaker 1: I think mostly recording just a boy. So and I

1451
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 1: Long Till Glasses were really me writing lyrics inspired by

1452
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:08,680
Speaker 1: my favorite movie, The gold Rush Charlie Chaplin. What a

1453
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 1: great movie. Yeah, and you know the scene, the scene

1454
01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:14,639
Speaker 1: where he goes into the bar and he's got to dance.

1455
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:16,559
Speaker 1: He's not really dressed for the part, but he kind

1456
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: of pretends he is, you know, And and I thought

1457
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:23,280
Speaker 1: about me. I was thinking about me in America. I

1458
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 1: was just I was shell shocked over the reaction in

1459
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 1: America because everybody said, you know, why do you need

1460
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 1: to dress as a clown? You can sing, You've got

1461
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: all the you're really talent. I'm going yet, really, because

1462
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 1: I was thinking, I'm never going to be as good

1463
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:40,759
Speaker 1: as my heroes, my American heroes, Otis Redding and Ah,

1464
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:44,600
Speaker 1: you know, Wilson Picket and even Bob Dylan and you

1465
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 1: know all of the great American artists, Sam Cook, Wow,

1466
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 1: you know Elvis. I just thought I was going to

1467
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: be a bit player, you know, in the music scene.

1468
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 1: But they kind of thought I was really special, and

1469
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,280
Speaker 1: they persuaded me, you know, take off the makeup, show

1470
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: your real self. You're a good looking guy, you know,

1471
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 1: come on, you can be a big star. So I

1472
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: was kind of a bit embarrassed by all of this,

1473
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 1: and I felt like the guy in the gold Rush

1474
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,200
Speaker 1: who goes into the bar. You know. I was traveling

1475
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: down the road feeling hungry, and cold so or a

1476
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:18,400
Speaker 1: science saying food and drinks for everyone. Food and drinks

1477
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:22,160
Speaker 1: is like, you know, the American riches. You know, all

1478
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 1: of this can be yours, girls partying, fast cars, clubs,

1479
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:33,720
Speaker 1: you know, best hotels, fame, um, groupies, you know. Um.

1480
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 1: And and I didn't really know how to handle it,

1481
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:41,639
Speaker 1: you know, so I I was very shy. Um. So

1482
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: the song is all about, you know, he says, Oh,

1483
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:48,519
Speaker 1: I can't dance, like I'm saying I can't sing, you know,

1484
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: I'm not really no, I'm not that good. And and

1485
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:53,640
Speaker 1: the song kind of gets to a point where he

1486
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 1: just says, oh, he's just so fed up with this

1487
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: barracking going on from everybody, and he just turns out

1488
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 1: and said, oh all right, okay, hang on, wait a minute,

1489
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:03,720
Speaker 1: and he says, you know I can dance, you know.

1490
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 1: So in other words, it's America. You see, if you

1491
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 1: believe you can do something, and you show the confidence,

1492
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 1: then you can do something. You know, all you have

1493
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 1: to do is bullshit everybody into saying you're brilliant, and

1494
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 1: they all think it brilliant. So that's how it seemed

1495
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: to me. It was an easy ticket. Um. And that's

1496
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: what that song is about. It's about the metamorphosis to

1497
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:26,040
Speaker 1: where you can actually think, why not give people what

1498
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: they want and stop being so petulant about it? You know. Okay,

1499
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 1: So ultimately you break up with David Courtney and you

1500
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:37,799
Speaker 1: end up working with Richard Perry. How does that happen? Well,

1501
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:41,559
Speaker 1: Adam was always very crafty, he claimed. When we went

1502
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,639
Speaker 1: for the third album another year, which I'm very very

1503
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 1: proud of. Um, he claimed that David wasn't interested in

1504
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 1: working with me any longer because basically wanted to do

1505
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:54,639
Speaker 1: his own project, which actually was patently not true. I mean,

1506
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: David wanted to do his home and album, but there

1507
01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 1: was always going to be time for that because I

1508
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't been away on a se x month American tour

1509
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 1: very soon anyway, second tour, and David had plenty of

1510
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 1: time to do that, you know. Um. And when I

1511
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 1: phoned David well, I found he changed his number. But

1512
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:13,599
Speaker 1: Adam had set all this up, you know. He said

1513
01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:15,880
Speaker 1: to David, you shouldn't be working with him. You're good

1514
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:17,680
Speaker 1: enough to do it on your own, you know. He

1515
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: split us up basically, so I had a bass player

1516
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: I was working with as a wonderful guy. It was

1517
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 1: in you remember the band super Tramps. Well, Frank was

1518
01:25:26,280 --> 01:25:29,599
Speaker 1: a founding member of super Tramp, but he left because

1519
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: basically the band had no money. They weren't going anywhere.

1520
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 1: So Frank had to get jobs as a as a

1521
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 1: jobbing session musician, you know, and work with other bands

1522
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:42,800
Speaker 1: to to you know, to make a living. So he

1523
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 1: turned up in one of my roadies houses, um staying

1524
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 1: in a flat there, and there was a piano there

1525
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 1: and Frank was always playing piano and I thought it

1526
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 1: was great pianist. He was a bass player, and I

1527
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: asked him to join my band, and he joined the band.

1528
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:00,640
Speaker 1: But it turned out he was really talented, and I was,

1529
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 1: you know, I was frustrated with David. But I was

1530
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 1: coming up with all these songs, um and ideas for songs,

1531
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,599
Speaker 1: and I'd start singing melodies to them, you know, and

1532
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 1: I and I played some to Frank and he said, okay,

1533
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 1: got onto the piano and started fleshing them out. You know.

1534
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 1: So I had a new writer, and he was taking

1535
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: my mellow melody, you know, my melody ideas and then

1536
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 1: taking them further. And then eventually, of course he would

1537
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 1: come up with some melody ideas but basically I was

1538
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:33,719
Speaker 1: much more in control. So even though I had lost David,

1539
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:37,599
Speaker 1: I was very happy because I could actually kind of

1540
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:41,680
Speaker 1: make the words fit the music, you know, because I

1541
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 1: can imagine what the music was going to be. I

1542
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 1: didn't have to wait for a for a songwriter to

1543
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 1: give me a melody to sing to. So the whole

1544
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 1: process became closer, you know. With Frank. So we made

1545
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:56,800
Speaker 1: this record another year and I thought was great, but

1546
01:26:56,880 --> 01:27:00,440
Speaker 1: Adam was patently getting less interested in being my producer.

1547
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:07,160
Speaker 1: He brought in Russ Ballard. Russ Ballard was, oh god,

1548
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,680
Speaker 1: I can't remember all the bands Argent there you go

1549
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:13,680
Speaker 1: at that time. But in an earlier version, Russ was

1550
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: Adams guitarist and on silver Bird. Going back to Silverbird,

1551
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: he's the guy who plays the banjo on The Show

1552
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: Must Go On and most of the guitars on that record.

1553
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: Um So, Russ came in with Adam as co producer

1554
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 1: and Russ is brilliant, great producer and a fantastic pianist.

1555
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:34,720
Speaker 1: You have no idea how a guitarist could be. I

1556
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 1: think it was trained on piano. Um So, he's playing

1557
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:42,200
Speaker 1: piano on the album. Didn't play any guitar. Frank's playing

1558
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:44,640
Speaker 1: piano on the album as well, and we've got a

1559
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 1: great bunch of in the band, some of the guys

1560
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:49,360
Speaker 1: that have been on the first album. We you know,

1561
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 1: we we we made another year so quickly because Adam

1562
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 1: he said, I just want to do it in two

1563
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 1: weeks because I'm busy. So we made the whole album

1564
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,560
Speaker 1: start to finish in two weeks and no chance for

1565
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,760
Speaker 1: retakes and anything. So I kind of I suppose a

1566
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:07,800
Speaker 1: rough and ready approach, and the mix isn't perfect, but

1567
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:10,680
Speaker 1: we did get some great strings on there, and I

1568
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 1: think it's one of my finest albums personally, So okay,

1569
01:28:15,400 --> 01:28:18,640
Speaker 1: close that out. Um. For some reason, I think I

1570
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 1: had wisdom tooth operation. I failed to make the American

1571
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:26,160
Speaker 1: tour so we couldn't promote it, and Adam I think

1572
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 1: influence warners to kind of like go quiet on the

1573
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 1: album dot spend much money. I think at this time

1574
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:33,240
Speaker 1: he was discovering that he could actually get them to

1575
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 1: pay a lot of money out and put it in

1576
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: his pocket and not give most of it to me.

1577
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 1: So that was basically the most opera endi that he

1578
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 1: discovered he could make money out of an artist you know,

1579
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: so that's what he started to do. He's a bit

1580
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:49,160
Speaker 1: of a rogue like that. So um, so there we were.

1581
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: We went to America to talk to producers because he

1582
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 1: was wanted a new producer. I I wanted Jerry Wexler

1583
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 1: or Ralph Warnaker. Those two were the guys that I liked,

1584
01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 1: or maybe even Tom Dowd. Although Tom Dowd's record of

1585
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: Atlantic Crossing was a little bit too mainstream for me,

1586
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't although I'd heard, of course what

1587
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 1: he'd done with A. Wretha and all of those, you know,

1588
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: those great acts that the Allman Brothers and everything Tom

1589
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:22,200
Speaker 1: had done, you know. Um, but Adam just came back

1590
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 1: and he went and did all the meetings, and he

1591
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:28,240
Speaker 1: came back and said, look, I don't nobody's interested, only

1592
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:34,080
Speaker 1: Richard Perry. When Richard Perry, Um, okay. Richard Perry is

1593
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 1: a very glossy producer. You know, he makes very sophisticated records.

1594
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: He makes records are almost a pedantic And the only

1595
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 1: one I really like is the Neilson Schmilsen album Schmilsen

1596
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:49,920
Speaker 1: in the Night, you know, the orchestral one which is

1597
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 1: which is glorious, which they made a movie off, you know,

1598
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:56,599
Speaker 1: and the video is fabulous, and I don't know something

1599
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,640
Speaker 1: about that record, and of course Harry's great talent, you know.

1600
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 1: I thought that that was pretty good. But I didn't

1601
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: like his record without Gulf Uncle, and I didn't like

1602
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:09,759
Speaker 1: his record with Barbara Streisand and Martha and Martha reeves

1603
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 1: Na not very much. So I went in there kind

1604
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 1: of thinking is this all there is? But Adam had

1605
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 1: very carefully shoehorned me into working with Richard. Richard had

1606
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:23,560
Speaker 1: seen me apparently play at the Trouper Door when I

1607
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 1: went there in and fell in love with the act

1608
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:30,840
Speaker 1: and just wanted to produce me. So he'd been badgering

1609
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 1: Adam to get to get get me together with him.

1610
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:40,360
Speaker 1: So we met up and I didn't take to Richard

1611
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:45,400
Speaker 1: very well at first. He was a crazy guy. There

1612
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 1: are a lot of drugs around. It wasn't my kind

1613
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:52,160
Speaker 1: of scene, you know. And I wanted to do my

1614
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 1: own songs. I mean, that's all I did was I

1615
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,720
Speaker 1: was a singer songwriter. And he turned around me and said,

1616
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 1: I don't completely hear I don't like your last album,

1617
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:03,959
Speaker 1: and I don't I don't hear you just as a songwriter.

1618
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 1: In fact, I think your voice is the best quality

1619
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 1: you've got. I went, what so he said, let's find

1620
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:15,559
Speaker 1: some covers. And I'm in this situation where I'm kind

1621
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:17,680
Speaker 1: of thinking this is I'm going to pack this all

1622
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:21,040
Speaker 1: up and go home. This isn't working. But we both

1623
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 1: agreed that we like motown and soul music. So we

1624
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:28,040
Speaker 1: ended up going into the studio and cutting Tears of

1625
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:36,240
Speaker 1: a Clown Um Reflections the Supremes Um what becomes the

1626
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 1: broken Hearted? I believe um. And it was a fantastic

1627
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:45,400
Speaker 1: session because he brought in the best musicians. Wow, the

1628
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 1: a team, you know, I mean really Larry Carleton and

1629
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:53,600
Speaker 1: all this great Mike o'mardian on piano, Wow, you know,

1630
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 1: Jeff Picaro on drums, Will he Weeks on bass. You know,

1631
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:00,560
Speaker 1: there's an incredible band. The vibe was great. All the

1632
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 1: guys loved me, and I loved working with the band,

1633
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: so you know, jamming with them was was a pleasure.

1634
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: And then every now and then we just had to

1635
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 1: serious up and do a song for Richard uh And

1636
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 1: I think there was potential, you know, I saw the

1637
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:16,439
Speaker 1: potential like I saw that I could hold my own

1638
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 1: with great musicians. You know, afterwards, I'm out drinking with

1639
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:22,200
Speaker 1: all the guys, and Willie's coming around to my house.

1640
01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:24,840
Speaker 1: Come on, car let's just do some Hendricks. Let's jam,

1641
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:27,479
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm thinking ship. These guys are now

1642
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:30,800
Speaker 1: my friends. So the whole project kind of took me over,

1643
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 1: as it were, and we started off. You know, I'm

1644
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 1: semi happy because I want to do my own songs.

1645
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:40,800
Speaker 1: I keep playing songs are Richard when he keeps nah,

1646
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: I don't see that. A bit too British, you know,

1647
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:48,920
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And one day we're jamming in the

1648
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:52,760
Speaker 1: studio in between takes for When I Need You, which

1649
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:54,599
Speaker 1: we've been working on, you know, to get this song

1650
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 1: good by Albert Hammond and Carol Baya saga, lovely song.

1651
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 1: Um And and I'm I don't know, I'm just having

1652
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 1: fun because Jeff Picaro and I used to we lived

1653
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,400
Speaker 1: just around the corner. He was in Kirkwood Avenue and

1654
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:12,240
Speaker 1: I was on the corner of Kirkwood and Laurel, opposite

1655
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 1: the County Store. You know that that spot, of course,

1656
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 1: um and I was renting this house right on the corner,

1657
01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:22,720
Speaker 1: and and he and I used to He used to

1658
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,040
Speaker 1: pass my house and he took his horn as he

1659
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 1: came by in his corvette. And then I didn't drive

1660
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:31,600
Speaker 1: at the time. My driver, David would be ready driving me.

1661
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,639
Speaker 1: And we're traveling together, you know, pretty much in convoy

1662
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:38,880
Speaker 1: down the Melrose Avenue to Studio fifty five o five

1663
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:46,240
Speaker 1: on Melrose. Now now, now, um, what do you call it? Um? Uh?

1664
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 1: What's that studio? Paramounts Now, Paramounts parking lot. Unfortunately it's

1665
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 1: not a studio any longer. And and on the way,

1666
01:33:56,120 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 1: you know, we'd listened to music and Jeff turned around

1667
01:33:58,560 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 1: it to me and said, hey, did you hear that's

1668
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,360
Speaker 1: song today? I said, you want that? That one with

1669
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:04,600
Speaker 1: that high singer. I said, yes, things just like you.

1670
01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 1: Shame shame, shame by Shirley and Company. And I started

1671
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:11,200
Speaker 1: singing it in the studio and just playing the drums

1672
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:15,320
Speaker 1: and shame, shame, shame, shame on you because you can't

1673
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 1: dance too, you know, with the falsetto, which I always

1674
01:34:18,120 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: had this great falsetto from being a choir boy, you know.

1675
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 1: And and we start jamming. Now the rest of guys

1676
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:27,160
Speaker 1: pick up on it. Dump dump the Ray Parker Jr.

1677
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:30,720
Speaker 1: Is playing guitar. Groovy guy groovy guy. He's playing this

1678
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:34,639
Speaker 1: incredible rhythm guitar and I start, you get acute way

1679
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:38,280
Speaker 1: of talking, and it's just a jam. It's going on

1680
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:42,400
Speaker 1: for about fifteen minutes, and I'm unknown to us. I mean,

1681
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 1: you know, Richard, it was a change tapes moment in

1682
01:34:45,400 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 1: the studio, track real to real. So you know you've

1683
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:50,679
Speaker 1: got to wait till the next tape is on. Line

1684
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:53,519
Speaker 1: it up and then you can carry on recording. But

1685
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:55,920
Speaker 1: Richard had kind of I was I was thinking, he's

1686
01:34:55,960 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 1: letting us go a long time, you know, before he

1687
01:34:58,360 --> 01:35:02,639
Speaker 1: come on, guys, let's go back to the track. He's

1688
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 1: going on a long time before this this eventuality. And

1689
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:09,040
Speaker 1: of course in the studio, meanwhile, Howard Steele the engineers

1690
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 1: telling me, He's saying, this is great. Get that tape off,

1691
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 1: put a fresh one on, you know, start recording now

1692
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:17,760
Speaker 1: now now get this. Don't lose it. Don't lose it.

1693
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:21,000
Speaker 1: And we didn't know all this because in the end

1694
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:23,639
Speaker 1: he just turned around to us. Okay, guys, very nice,

1695
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 1: but let's get on. We've got to cut this track today.

1696
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:29,639
Speaker 1: Come on, time as money, guys, you know, we carry

1697
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:33,519
Speaker 1: on with recording when I need you. About two weeks later,

1698
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:36,240
Speaker 1: he calls me up to his office and he's made

1699
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:39,719
Speaker 1: put it onto a cassette and this jam session. He said,

1700
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:44,880
Speaker 1: that is your hit, he said, on my life. I say,

1701
01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 1: it's one of the biggest things I've ever heard. That

1702
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:52,240
Speaker 1: is your hit. You know how we got to get

1703
01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 1: a chorus, We've got to finish this thing. But that,

1704
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 1: he said, is a crossover hit. He said. And the

1705
01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:02,000
Speaker 1: year before we've had Staying Alive, you know, the oh

1706
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 1: no no jive talking, the bigs jive talking and you

1707
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:09,320
Speaker 1: know which a Reef Martine record produced, you know, with

1708
01:36:09,439 --> 01:36:13,080
Speaker 1: the bags, and he said, that is your jive talking.

1709
01:36:13,160 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 1: He said, that thing is gonna It's incredible. I can

1710
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 1: really do something with this. So there was a guy

1711
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 1: called Vinnie Pancier who was producer and co writer with

1712
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:29,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people work with Ringo Star on the

1713
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:34,040
Speaker 1: records that Richard did with Ringo Star and and we

1714
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:37,559
Speaker 1: called Richard called him in. He had a bad back.

1715
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:41,120
Speaker 1: I remember he had some major problem where I've got

1716
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 1: to go and see my car practical Leo. You know

1717
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:45,840
Speaker 1: all this American stuff that I didn't admit. This little

1718
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:49,560
Speaker 1: British guy didn't understand the pedantry of it all. You know,

1719
01:36:51,560 --> 01:36:54,200
Speaker 1: Richard's got to get his joints rolled just so you know,

1720
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:58,320
Speaker 1: And and everybody's got these, you know, the chair and

1721
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:00,920
Speaker 1: the studio is not right. I'm we have to take

1722
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:02,840
Speaker 1: a day off so I can go shopping for chairs.

1723
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,160
Speaker 1: These are the guys I'm working well. I just want

1724
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:07,240
Speaker 1: to get on with this fucking record that I've has,

1725
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 1: costing me a fortune. So we have five minutes to work,

1726
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 1: and we managed to kind of take it up to

1727
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:17,720
Speaker 1: another key and we have the chorus, put it on

1728
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 1: the cassette, joined the two together and we've got a song.

1729
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:25,679
Speaker 1: So next thing that happens is, I don't know. There's

1730
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:28,599
Speaker 1: a call from Donald Fagan, who we both knew pretty well.

1731
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 1: He's got a great band that's come down from New York,

1732
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:34,519
Speaker 1: but he's got a rights block. He's got nothing to record.

1733
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 1: And Bill Schnay, his engineer who's sometimes engineered with us,

1734
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:42,599
Speaker 1: has got producers workshop his own boutique studio up there

1735
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: with Chuck Rainey in town and Michael and Mardian and

1736
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:50,599
Speaker 1: Larry Carlton and Steve Gadd has come down with Chuck

1737
01:37:50,720 --> 01:37:53,880
Speaker 1: Rainey from New York and he says, you've got this

1738
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:57,200
Speaker 1: band is incredible. Donald's got nothing to record today? Do

1739
01:37:57,240 --> 01:38:00,160
Speaker 1: you want to come in? And Richard said, I think

1740
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:02,000
Speaker 1: I've got the tune for that. So we went in

1741
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,920
Speaker 1: and he brought it, brought in his reel to reel.

1742
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:08,360
Speaker 1: There were two machines going and they were spinning the

1743
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 1: two two reels together and dubbing onto Steve Gad's drums

1744
01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:15,080
Speaker 1: onto that. You know, I don't know how that worked,

1745
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:18,720
Speaker 1: but the band is all, you know, playing and I

1746
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:21,240
Speaker 1: don't know somehow out of it. We just Steve had

1747
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:24,960
Speaker 1: this incredible drag drag snare field which is famous for

1748
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, He's playing away um and Bills recording it

1749
01:38:29,280 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 1: all and Richard's over the moon and and I'm singing

1750
01:38:33,120 --> 01:38:35,760
Speaker 1: next door to to Steve, and Steve and I are

1751
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:38,400
Speaker 1: getting on like an absolute house on fire with all

1752
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:42,240
Speaker 1: the musicians, you know, and and we come out of it.

1753
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:44,679
Speaker 1: We've got you made me feel like dancing, And there's

1754
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:47,960
Speaker 1: still a little bit more time to go. So Richard says,

1755
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:50,000
Speaker 1: can we do another track? And Bill says, he, I

1756
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:52,320
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, what do you got? They play

1757
01:38:52,479 --> 01:38:55,840
Speaker 1: how Much Love? And the guys just say yeah. Actually,

1758
01:38:55,960 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 1: Richard t was was came down from New York and

1759
01:38:58,560 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 1: he hears it and it said, I was complete, bang

1760
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:04,840
Speaker 1: out gospel tune, you know for for piano. Anyway, I've

1761
01:39:04,880 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: written it with Barry Mann who wrote he Lost that

1762
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:09,879
Speaker 1: love and feeling, you know. So it was a fantastic

1763
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 1: little tune. Um. So Richard's on piano, and yeah, we

1764
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 1: got that done in an hour or half an hour.

1765
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:18,639
Speaker 1: So we came out of that studio with a three

1766
01:39:18,720 --> 01:39:28,519
Speaker 1: hour session with two songs, two hits. So you have

1767
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:32,360
Speaker 1: this great success with Richard, you continue to work with Richard,

1768
01:39:32,880 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 1: how do you break off with Richard? They didn't want

1769
01:39:35,120 --> 01:39:37,960
Speaker 1: to do it any longer. I mean, he just he

1770
01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:41,600
Speaker 1: wanted to move on. Also, he was very expensive. I

1771
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:43,760
Speaker 1: think that that was a you know a problem with

1772
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:46,800
Speaker 1: for Adam. Although we were getting great success all around

1773
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 1: the world. That you know, when you've got records and

1774
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:51,599
Speaker 1: the producers taking twelve percent of the record as well,

1775
01:39:52,240 --> 01:39:56,240
Speaker 1: that was his fee. You know, he would take a

1776
01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:59,680
Speaker 1: long time to make records, a lot of editing. Uh,

1777
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:03,840
Speaker 1: It's just it's something that we couldn't sustain. I think

1778
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:07,080
Speaker 1: either side, he wanted to move on to other things

1779
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:10,240
Speaker 1: as well. You know, he had a chance to um

1780
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:14,000
Speaker 1: Make Records, also started his own label. I think he

1781
01:40:14,120 --> 01:40:16,960
Speaker 1: started recording the Point of Sisters and he had his

1782
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 1: own label. He had his He moved to two Planet Records. Yeah,

1783
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:25,680
Speaker 1: he moved. He put an office in Hollywood Sunset Boulevard,

1784
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:28,839
Speaker 1: and you know, he wanted to go in a different direction.

1785
01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:32,240
Speaker 1: I think he wanted I think when maybe we couldn't

1786
01:40:32,240 --> 01:40:34,840
Speaker 1: pay him enough, you know, so he wanted to kind

1787
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:37,559
Speaker 1: of like, you know, get people who would pay him more.

1788
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:40,080
Speaker 1: You know, he was very money oriented, Richard. And so

1789
01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 1: then you go back with David Courtney while I was

1790
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:45,640
Speaker 1: still in l A, you know, and I was now

1791
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:49,400
Speaker 1: enjoying living in l A. And you know, the lovely

1792
01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:51,600
Speaker 1: thing about records is that you always kind of like

1793
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:55,479
Speaker 1: reap the success a year or two years after you've recorded.

1794
01:40:56,160 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: So nineteen seventy nine, I'm still living off it. You know.

1795
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:05,439
Speaker 1: I've got a great last record we made, just called

1796
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:07,680
Speaker 1: Leo said, because nobody could think of a title. But

1797
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:10,040
Speaker 1: we've got Raining in my Heart on there and a

1798
01:41:10,160 --> 01:41:12,600
Speaker 1: hit in the UK, I Can't Stop Loving You, a

1799
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:16,040
Speaker 1: song by this lovely guy, Billy Nichols that has really

1800
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:18,760
Speaker 1: been a big hit there. And so we had a

1801
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:21,720
Speaker 1: fine record, you know, to to live off. And I'm

1802
01:41:21,800 --> 01:41:26,040
Speaker 1: touring and David turns up again. He's living in l A.

1803
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:29,679
Speaker 1: We're all talking again and becoming friends again. He comes

1804
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:32,240
Speaker 1: to a few shows. He says, look, I'd love to

1805
01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:35,880
Speaker 1: produce you again. And I said, well, you know, you'll

1806
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:37,519
Speaker 1: have to square it with Adam. He said, no, Adam

1807
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 1: thinks it's a good idea. And by this time David's

1808
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:43,439
Speaker 1: done quite a few records as a producer, and he's

1809
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:46,519
Speaker 1: very in with Duc Dunn and Steve Cropper and all

1810
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:49,160
Speaker 1: these guys. He knows all the guys I worked with

1811
01:41:49,240 --> 01:41:51,600
Speaker 1: as well. He hadn't worked with Jeff Acaro. But I

1812
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 1: brought Jeff in and Steve, Luca Thur and a few

1813
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:59,519
Speaker 1: guys from my sort of side in Michael Amardian as well,

1814
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:05,479
Speaker 1: you know, um uh and and we just we just

1815
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 1: suddenly got recording. We went to Sunset Sound and recorded

1816
01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 1: here very quickly. U Umberto Gatica was the engineer who

1817
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:17,200
Speaker 1: famous Engineer later on was one of his first ever

1818
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:20,960
Speaker 1: records he cut. But he was amazing, and you know,

1819
01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:24,679
Speaker 1: we had a fantastic team. I brought in Billy Payne

1820
01:42:25,640 --> 01:42:30,000
Speaker 1: to play keyboards, who was who I loved working with

1821
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 1: because I used to jam with him and Lowell George

1822
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:35,200
Speaker 1: all the time, you know, up in the canyons. And

1823
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:37,599
Speaker 1: so I asked Billy if he'd be like he said, yeah,

1824
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:41,080
Speaker 1: I love to man, you know. So David Lindley, we

1825
01:42:41,160 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 1: brought him pedal steel guitar, you know, and so we

1826
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:50,120
Speaker 1: made a fantastic record. But I don't know why the

1827
01:42:50,200 --> 01:42:54,080
Speaker 1: record company wasn't really, I mean, they know. I suppose

1828
01:42:54,120 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 1: they'd spend a lot of money on the Richard Perry projects,

1829
01:42:57,479 --> 01:43:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, because Richard was very demanding producer director type,

1830
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:05,160
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, and now David was a bit softer,

1831
01:43:05,400 --> 01:43:07,679
Speaker 1: so I think a little bit less money got spent

1832
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:10,720
Speaker 1: pushing that in a um. I thought it was a

1833
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:13,080
Speaker 1: bloody good record really, So then you go to work

1834
01:43:13,120 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 1: with Alan Tarney. How does that happen? Well, running out

1835
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 1: of money and to live in America, you know, and

1836
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:22,519
Speaker 1: me and my wife Janice were kind of thinking we

1837
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 1: can't keep this up, you know, it's just crazy. So

1838
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,840
Speaker 1: Chris Wright of Chris List Records plays me this song

1839
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:33,519
Speaker 1: by this guy Alan Tarni when I was visiting London.

1840
01:43:34,240 --> 01:43:36,200
Speaker 1: He says, you should think about working with this guy,

1841
01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:40,280
Speaker 1: and the song was we Don't Talk Anymore Cliff Richard,

1842
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:42,560
Speaker 1: and he says, you know, the great thing about this

1843
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:44,960
Speaker 1: guy he plays everything himself, just him and the drummer,

1844
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:48,040
Speaker 1: and it's got a unique way of working. And I'm

1845
01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:50,280
Speaker 1: kind of At this time, I'd started to build my

1846
01:43:50,360 --> 01:43:53,679
Speaker 1: own studio and I was going in this direction myself,

1847
01:43:53,760 --> 01:43:57,080
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, oh, this is interesting, and he'd

1848
01:43:57,080 --> 01:43:58,600
Speaker 1: really love to work with you. So I met with

1849
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:01,200
Speaker 1: Alan Tani and he had a couple of great songs

1850
01:44:01,240 --> 01:44:04,800
Speaker 1: that we went straight into the studio and recorded R

1851
01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:09,240
Speaker 1: G R G Jones Studio in Wimbledon, and they both

1852
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:11,720
Speaker 1: ended up on the record and we decided to make

1853
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:14,519
Speaker 1: an album from there. You know, we got on really great.

1854
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 1: I loved his technique, just him and me in the room.

1855
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:21,680
Speaker 1: Trevor Spencer would then come in and play drums. One

1856
01:44:21,720 --> 01:44:24,439
Speaker 1: of the last things after, you know, we worked off

1857
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:27,720
Speaker 1: one of Trevor's drum loops. At the time, technology was

1858
01:44:27,800 --> 01:44:32,519
Speaker 1: in its infancy, but Alan was already mastering computers and

1859
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:34,600
Speaker 1: there was this crazy system where you could put in

1860
01:44:34,720 --> 01:44:37,160
Speaker 1: one note at a time and it made a very

1861
01:44:37,240 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 1: interesting kind of sound. Because we were all discovering sequencing

1862
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:44,519
Speaker 1: at the time. You know, there's this way of making

1863
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:48,439
Speaker 1: records lynn drum machines and and and sequences, you know,

1864
01:44:48,600 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 1: working off computers. And while it was all very metronomic,

1865
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:56,240
Speaker 1: if you put human instruments to it, like guitars and

1866
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:59,960
Speaker 1: bass and vocals, he got a great kind of sweat

1867
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:02,320
Speaker 1: off it. I don't know how to describe it, but

1868
01:45:02,400 --> 01:45:05,760
Speaker 1: it's it's a fascinating thing, you know, that humanity and

1869
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 1: robots together, virtual AI, early AI, I think. And so

1870
01:45:12,920 --> 01:45:16,080
Speaker 1: we made this record and right at the end of it,

1871
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 1: we were we had an extra day of studio time

1872
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:21,920
Speaker 1: and we didn't know what to do with it. So

1873
01:45:22,439 --> 01:45:25,439
Speaker 1: we sat around watching TV trying to think of ideas

1874
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:27,960
Speaker 1: we thought would do a cover. You know. First off,

1875
01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,320
Speaker 1: we had a slowed down version of Don't Be Cruel,

1876
01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:35,519
Speaker 1: Don't want to be a Tiger, you know, really slowed

1877
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:39,080
Speaker 1: down like that, you know, Um, no, treat me nice?

1878
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:40,840
Speaker 1: Was it Treat me Nice? And one of those anyway,

1879
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:44,559
Speaker 1: because Tigers played too rough whatever that song is, you know, um,

1880
01:45:45,160 --> 01:45:48,560
Speaker 1: so oh, it wasn't going anywhere, you know, And we

1881
01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:51,519
Speaker 1: were watching the TV and an ad came on for

1882
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:56,320
Speaker 1: the Greatest Hits of Bobby V and Bobby V made

1883
01:45:56,360 --> 01:45:59,200
Speaker 1: an album when Buddy Hollyod died. They were both with

1884
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:03,280
Speaker 1: Coral Records, so the crickets. Coral didn't know what to

1885
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:06,400
Speaker 1: do with the crickets, who are incredibly talented themselves, so

1886
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 1: they put Bobby V Meets the Crickets and made this

1887
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:12,120
Speaker 1: record six and the hit out of that record was

1888
01:46:12,200 --> 01:46:15,000
Speaker 1: a song called more Than I Can Say. So, um,

1889
01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:21,240
Speaker 1: there it was on the TV. Well, yeah, I loved

1890
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:24,000
Speaker 1: you more Than I Can See, and Alan and I

1891
01:46:24,160 --> 01:46:26,320
Speaker 1: both looked at each other. We both loved that song

1892
01:46:26,760 --> 01:46:29,280
Speaker 1: in our past, you know, and he said, let's do that.

1893
01:46:30,360 --> 01:46:35,240
Speaker 1: So we went in about one o'clock. This one. We

1894
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:37,439
Speaker 1: actually had to rush to a record store to find

1895
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:40,640
Speaker 1: the original record, and those days you couldn't call up

1896
01:46:40,640 --> 01:46:43,759
Speaker 1: anything on the internet. Of course, there wasn't an internet.

1897
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:46,800
Speaker 1: So we went to a record store and somebody found

1898
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 1: a shrink rack copy behind the desk and had just

1899
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:52,320
Speaker 1: been reliving only only only just came out Greatest Shits

1900
01:46:52,360 --> 01:46:55,120
Speaker 1: of Bobby V. And they're on it. Track eight or

1901
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,760
Speaker 1: so is more than I Can Say. So we spin it.

1902
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:00,920
Speaker 1: We kind of get the cords down and you know,

1903
01:47:01,120 --> 01:47:03,479
Speaker 1: and we started working on it. We find the right

1904
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 1: key for my voice. Um, and by midnight we've got

1905
01:47:08,880 --> 01:47:15,000
Speaker 1: it mixed, finished, ready to go, all the vocals on it, everything,

1906
01:47:15,080 --> 01:47:17,040
Speaker 1: and well it wasn't mixed. I mean, we still got

1907
01:47:17,080 --> 01:47:21,519
Speaker 1: it mixed, but there it was a great use of

1908
01:47:21,640 --> 01:47:24,920
Speaker 1: that extra day that we hadn't calculated. And I ad

1909
01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:27,320
Speaker 1: on faith and everybody turned around and said, that is

1910
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 1: your single, you know. So that became the first single,

1911
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:32,800
Speaker 1: more than I can say, the only song on there

1912
01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:35,759
Speaker 1: that I didn't write, and there it was. It became

1913
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:38,360
Speaker 1: my comeback hit in America. So that to biget. How

1914
01:47:38,360 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 1: do you end up working with the Reef? I've made

1915
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:43,160
Speaker 1: a Reef a few times in London and I really

1916
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:45,560
Speaker 1: liked him. I mean we had mutual friends with some

1917
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:50,000
Speaker 1: of the guys with the bigs and and he just

1918
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:52,960
Speaker 1: he was coming into London. I think a Reef was

1919
01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:55,880
Speaker 1: trying to find something new, so he was linking up

1920
01:47:55,920 --> 01:47:59,680
Speaker 1: with a lot of songwriters there and finding songs, you know, um,

1921
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:04,320
Speaker 1: and I think I think he just kind of I

1922
01:48:04,479 --> 01:48:08,519
Speaker 1: was really into British talent at the time, and he

1923
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:11,559
Speaker 1: made a call. I got a call, and so Reef Martin.

1924
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:13,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if you'll know him, of course, I

1925
01:48:13,479 --> 01:48:16,120
Speaker 1: know you, and he said, Um, I am in London

1926
01:48:16,760 --> 01:48:20,080
Speaker 1: and I am staying at the Mayfair Hotel and I'd

1927
01:48:20,120 --> 01:48:24,080
Speaker 1: like to meet up and I said, great, come over,

1928
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:27,840
Speaker 1: he said now. So I went straight over and he said, look,

1929
01:48:27,880 --> 01:48:29,439
Speaker 1: I want to make a record with you. I love

1930
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: living in a fantasy, love all your records with with Richard.

1931
01:48:33,720 --> 01:48:37,240
Speaker 1: You know, Um, could we could we talk about a project?

1932
01:48:37,479 --> 01:48:39,920
Speaker 1: And I said, great, Well, I'll get onto the record companies.

1933
01:48:39,920 --> 01:48:42,479
Speaker 1: He said, I've already talked to them. And I said,

1934
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:44,599
Speaker 1: I'll get onto Adam. He said, I've already talked to him.

1935
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:48,280
Speaker 1: He said, we're starting now. He said, listen to these songs.

1936
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:49,960
Speaker 1: And so, you know, he played me a load of

1937
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:52,160
Speaker 1: songs and I played him a load of songs that

1938
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:55,000
Speaker 1: I had written, um, some with David Courtney that I

1939
01:48:55,080 --> 01:48:57,680
Speaker 1: hadn't got round to recording yet. And he said, I

1940
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:00,880
Speaker 1: think we got an album. So we went to New

1941
01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:04,840
Speaker 1: York started recording. Then we went to l A and

1942
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 1: recorded some more. But this was a time when a

1943
01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:14,120
Speaker 1: few nefarious things were going on with Adam. Unfortunately. Yeah.

1944
01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 1: It was, like I said, he was trying to sort

1945
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 1: of get money out of the record company and money

1946
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:21,960
Speaker 1: wherever he could and for projects that he wanted to do,

1947
01:49:22,160 --> 01:49:24,400
Speaker 1: and you know, it was not really there all the

1948
01:49:24,479 --> 01:49:26,960
Speaker 1: time as the manager. I was hanging on to him

1949
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:30,479
Speaker 1: because I didn't know where else to go. Um And

1950
01:49:31,120 --> 01:49:34,519
Speaker 1: when it came to we finished the record and I

1951
01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:36,600
Speaker 1: was very proud of it. Barry Gibb wrote us a

1952
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:41,200
Speaker 1: song hard Stop Beating in Time, and there was a

1953
01:49:41,280 --> 01:49:43,679
Speaker 1: lovely song by a bunch of guys in England called

1954
01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:45,639
Speaker 1: have You Ever Been in Love? We had two major

1955
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:49,040
Speaker 1: signal singles on there. The title track was the song

1956
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:51,920
Speaker 1: David and I wrote David Courtney and I wrote yet

1957
01:49:51,960 --> 01:49:55,719
Speaker 1: again called World Radio. So the album was called World Radio.

1958
01:49:55,800 --> 01:49:57,800
Speaker 1: We took it to warn us and they said, look,

1959
01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:00,680
Speaker 1: we don't have any budget for this. I said, but

1960
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to be on Solid Gold next week with

1961
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:08,559
Speaker 1: Dion Warwick, you know, co hosting, and I can, I can.

1962
01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:10,800
Speaker 1: They want me to sing some of the songs. They said, yeah,

1963
01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:13,120
Speaker 1: well good luck with that, but we don't have any

1964
01:50:13,160 --> 01:50:15,439
Speaker 1: budget for a single. So I go on this show

1965
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:17,720
Speaker 1: and I sing these two songs and the audience goes mad.

1966
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:20,479
Speaker 1: TV goes mad. In America, everybody loves it and they

1967
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 1: can't buy the single. What can you say it's like

1968
01:50:25,960 --> 01:50:30,280
Speaker 1: it's a disaster, It's really it was a really sad moment.

1969
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:33,040
Speaker 1: Who do we blame? Do we blame Adam? Do we

1970
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:36,760
Speaker 1: blame the people who Warner Brothers? Well, one is, weren't

1971
01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:38,680
Speaker 1: that easy to get on with at that time. I

1972
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:40,760
Speaker 1: mean I signed to Joe Smith. Joe Smith at this

1973
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:43,559
Speaker 1: time had gone. It was Mo Austin. I mean, Moe

1974
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 1: Austin is the guy that in seven when I got

1975
01:50:46,400 --> 01:50:49,400
Speaker 1: my Grammy, turned around to me at the Grammy party

1976
01:50:49,439 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 1: afterwards and say, hey, Leo Seria or later, you're going

1977
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:55,560
Speaker 1: to win one of these things. So, I mean, he

1978
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:57,360
Speaker 1: didn't even know I had won a Grammy because it

1979
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:00,120
Speaker 1: was so you know, in in raptures over all the

1980
01:51:00,160 --> 01:51:03,880
Speaker 1: Fleetwood mac Rumors Grammys at that time. So I had

1981
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:06,120
Speaker 1: a company that was a bit disengaged with me, you

1982
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:10,200
Speaker 1: know in America, and you know, and then when I

1983
01:51:10,280 --> 01:51:12,200
Speaker 1: deliver something, they're just thinking of how much it's going

1984
01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:16,680
Speaker 1: to cost to sell. You know. I don't think there

1985
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:19,000
Speaker 1: was a I don't think there was anybody really listening

1986
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 1: to the record, you know what I mean. Okay, but

1987
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:24,080
Speaker 1: let's go back to Adam. Now, you believe Adam is

1988
01:51:24,200 --> 01:51:28,519
Speaker 1: stealing from you. You ultimately sue Adam. What's going on there?

1989
01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:32,160
Speaker 1: Well eventually, yeah, it was a little bit later that

1990
01:51:32,320 --> 01:51:36,439
Speaker 1: I managed to extricate myself from all of that. And

1991
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, if I just pack up with Adam, I

1992
01:51:39,479 --> 01:51:41,360
Speaker 1: won't get my properties, you know, I won't get my

1993
01:51:41,880 --> 01:51:44,840
Speaker 1: my master's, I won't get all the things that I

1994
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:47,360
Speaker 1: should get. Because he had me on a power of

1995
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:52,360
Speaker 1: attorney agreement very early in my career, so I signed

1996
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:54,720
Speaker 1: away everything to him. He could do anything on my

1997
01:51:54,880 --> 01:51:58,200
Speaker 1: behalf without me even ever to consult with me. You know.

1998
01:51:58,720 --> 01:52:01,120
Speaker 1: So I had my publishing, we had the same accountant,

1999
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:06,320
Speaker 1: we had, he had my record rights, he had everything.

2000
01:52:07,200 --> 01:52:09,360
Speaker 1: So to extricate myself from this guy had to be

2001
01:52:09,439 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 1: done kind of carefully, you know. Um, And eventually I

2002
01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:18,360
Speaker 1: think he just gave up. And you know, I I

2003
01:52:18,479 --> 01:52:23,080
Speaker 1: got everything back, which was amazing. It's tough, but it

2004
01:52:23,240 --> 01:52:26,679
Speaker 1: was I got everything back. Suddenly. I owned my whole catalog,

2005
01:52:26,760 --> 01:52:29,920
Speaker 1: owned my all my songs. He just gave me the

2006
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:33,519
Speaker 1: publishing companies. Um, I I owned all the records. He

2007
01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:35,400
Speaker 1: gave me the record company that I was signed to,

2008
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:38,880
Speaker 1: I mean production company, record company. You know that. Then

2009
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:41,639
Speaker 1: leases too, of course you know, you know has done

2010
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:45,240
Speaker 1: So I had all those companies. Um, I had all

2011
01:52:45,280 --> 01:52:48,479
Speaker 1: those rights, and do you still own them? No? I

2012
01:52:48,600 --> 01:52:51,080
Speaker 1: met a guy Hi, I still had a problem with

2013
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:55,559
Speaker 1: Chrysalis Records, where chrys Chrysalis Records in England had paid

2014
01:52:55,600 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 1: out a very large sum in those days six and

2015
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:02,080
Speaker 1: fifty thousand, who enticed me to do another ten year

2016
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:07,080
Speaker 1: deal with them when ten years ran out in around Yeah,

2017
01:53:07,720 --> 01:53:13,120
Speaker 1: so not in three I discovered, even though I extricated

2018
01:53:13,200 --> 01:53:18,800
Speaker 1: myself from Adam that I think it was but I

2019
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:22,080
Speaker 1: was still signed to Christlis and under the terms of

2020
01:53:22,160 --> 01:53:25,200
Speaker 1: the old deal, which meant I couldn't get anything back

2021
01:53:25,280 --> 01:53:29,639
Speaker 1: from them. So I questioned this and I got a lawyer.

2022
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:32,120
Speaker 1: I found a manager in the end who got me

2023
01:53:32,200 --> 01:53:35,360
Speaker 1: a lawyer who'd done a lot of great stuff for

2024
01:53:35,439 --> 01:53:40,720
Speaker 1: else and John and he he managed to threaten um

2025
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:48,760
Speaker 1: Chris Lis Chris right quite heavily into giving up Um. Yeah,

2026
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:53,160
Speaker 1: those those rights, um and I got free of them.

2027
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:57,439
Speaker 1: But the guy who introduced me to the lawyer turned

2028
01:53:57,439 --> 01:53:59,880
Speaker 1: out to be an even bigger crook than Adam was.

2029
01:54:00,840 --> 01:54:04,680
Speaker 1: And he just said, Okay, now you've got all your

2030
01:54:04,760 --> 01:54:07,519
Speaker 1: rights back, You're really free, get on with your record.

2031
01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:10,640
Speaker 1: So I moved to the country in England. I was

2032
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:14,760
Speaker 1: off far away from London all of a sudden, living

2033
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:19,240
Speaker 1: in this beautiful cottage in seventy acres of land or so,

2034
01:54:19,439 --> 01:54:22,720
Speaker 1: you know, with the studio there and everything all going

2035
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:26,640
Speaker 1: really well, planning my next record, writing my songs, not

2036
01:54:26,800 --> 01:54:29,240
Speaker 1: kind of knowing exactly you know, who I was going

2037
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:31,840
Speaker 1: to work with, but basically getting on with it, you know.

2038
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:35,480
Speaker 1: And in the meanwhile, he was signing away all my

2039
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:44,120
Speaker 1: rights with a forged signature, back to Warners, back to

2040
01:54:44,240 --> 01:54:48,720
Speaker 1: Chrysalis now with a label called the Hit Label, signing

2041
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:54,040
Speaker 1: away my publishing rights. It was an absolute mess. I

2042
01:54:54,160 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 1: broke into its office one day because he changed the

2043
01:54:57,400 --> 01:55:01,400
Speaker 1: locks on the keys my office actually, and found out

2044
01:55:01,440 --> 01:55:03,920
Speaker 1: that he'd also managed to drum up about a hundred

2045
01:55:03,960 --> 01:55:10,560
Speaker 1: and sixty thousand UM pounds on credit cards to take

2046
01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:12,520
Speaker 1: his wife on holiday all over the world and do

2047
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:15,760
Speaker 1: things like that. So he was stealing money off me

2048
01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:21,520
Speaker 1: with credit cards and yeah, and signing me to deals

2049
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 1: that I couldn't get out of. So today, at this

2050
01:55:23,720 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 1: late date, you own none of your publishing, none of

2051
01:55:27,840 --> 01:55:30,520
Speaker 1: your master recordings. It was very interesting. We came to

2052
01:55:30,960 --> 01:55:33,320
Speaker 1: you do remember a lovely guy called Bob Emma. Of course,

2053
01:55:33,840 --> 01:55:37,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah. Bob and Sue a lovely couple. I

2054
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:40,200
Speaker 1: don't know if Bob's still around, but Bob was a

2055
01:55:40,360 --> 01:55:44,280
Speaker 1: beautiful cat and he was with Warner Brothers. Okay, so

2056
01:55:44,440 --> 01:55:46,360
Speaker 1: he was one of the old school Warner Brothers guys

2057
01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:51,160
Speaker 1: still there. Rusty Ratte and all those guys had long

2058
01:55:51,320 --> 01:55:55,560
Speaker 1: long left, you know. Um and Mol Austin's there running

2059
01:55:56,080 --> 01:55:58,720
Speaker 1: the show, and his son is there as well. Um

2060
01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:02,480
Speaker 1: and Bob is still there, and I don't know. Donna

2061
01:56:02,560 --> 01:56:08,360
Speaker 1: Tell a marvelous Donna Teller Pigionetti, my partner, Um, who

2062
01:56:08,400 --> 01:56:10,280
Speaker 1: had seen me go through all this rip off. She

2063
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:12,840
Speaker 1: was with me now, the new lady in my life

2064
01:56:12,880 --> 01:56:15,760
Speaker 1: as it were. It's starting to get involved in the management.

2065
01:56:15,840 --> 01:56:18,000
Speaker 1: She's learning how to manage me, and she's learning how

2066
01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:20,280
Speaker 1: to because we're in a ship, you know, we're we're

2067
01:56:20,640 --> 01:56:23,800
Speaker 1: almost bankrupt. We had accountants telling us we should far

2068
01:56:23,960 --> 01:56:27,680
Speaker 1: for bankruptcy and just give up the business and everything,

2069
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm thinking, no, I can't do that.

2070
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:35,480
Speaker 1: So she heard from somebody in the business that Bob

2071
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:39,600
Speaker 1: Emma was coming into London. So she managed to get

2072
01:56:39,640 --> 01:56:41,280
Speaker 1: a meeting with him at the hotel. I don't know

2073
01:56:41,320 --> 01:56:43,480
Speaker 1: how she did it, but Bob sat down with him

2074
01:56:43,840 --> 01:56:46,080
Speaker 1: and she said, well you know Leo say, and he said,

2075
01:56:46,160 --> 01:56:48,640
Speaker 1: I love Leo. And Sue was there as well, and

2076
01:56:48,680 --> 01:56:51,920
Speaker 1: they said, oh we lovely or whatever happened to Leo. Well,

2077
01:56:52,040 --> 01:56:56,320
Speaker 1: Leo signed back with your label. Really they didn't even know. Um.

2078
01:56:56,680 --> 01:57:00,720
Speaker 1: And basically he gets no royalties. He's so his catalog

2079
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:04,320
Speaker 1: to you what. I can't believe Leo would ever do that.

2080
01:57:05,080 --> 01:57:07,400
Speaker 1: He I saw a poster. Bob said, you know, he's

2081
01:57:07,440 --> 01:57:12,360
Speaker 1: playing here in London. So they're in shock. And Bob

2082
01:57:12,440 --> 01:57:15,600
Speaker 1: just says, look, Donna, I'm going to get his royalties back.

2083
01:57:16,080 --> 01:57:19,200
Speaker 1: So and he did. He got a deal I couldn't

2084
01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:21,520
Speaker 1: get out of Warners. I'm still with Warner in Australia

2085
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,240
Speaker 1: and still with Warner in America via Rhino. I'm not

2086
01:57:24,360 --> 01:57:27,400
Speaker 1: very happy about it because they never do a damn thing. Um,

2087
01:57:27,680 --> 01:57:32,440
Speaker 1: they never released anything. They're just you know, but they're

2088
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:35,000
Speaker 1: just holding onto me. They hold onto those those rights

2089
01:57:35,080 --> 01:57:38,840
Speaker 1: over the last records. If I had enough money, i'd

2090
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:41,040
Speaker 1: be out of there. But I'd have to buy my

2091
01:57:41,160 --> 01:57:45,120
Speaker 1: way out, you know, so um so. But we managed

2092
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 1: to get royalties again. We got you know, suddenly, we

2093
01:57:48,320 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 1: didn't get back royalties of course in the time that

2094
01:57:50,920 --> 01:57:54,320
Speaker 1: Lynch had stolen them all. But this guy, Michael Lynch,

2095
01:57:54,400 --> 01:57:56,840
Speaker 1: that's what that's what his name was, the crook who

2096
01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:00,360
Speaker 1: forged my signature. But we managed to we managed to

2097
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:02,880
Speaker 1: kind of get that back, and then gradually, of course

2098
01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:08,200
Speaker 1: we got um we got an arrangement with Universal as well,

2099
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:10,880
Speaker 1: where he'd sold the songs to them, and we got

2100
01:58:10,920 --> 01:58:14,400
Speaker 1: back publishing rights for them. They sold Universal sold off

2101
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:17,160
Speaker 1: to another company anyway, who look after it now? And

2102
01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:21,400
Speaker 1: you know, the royalties are all pretty intact and since then,

2103
01:58:21,640 --> 01:58:24,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the guys I've been approached with

2104
01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:28,640
Speaker 1: Pride By, I was approached by Primary Wave, and I

2105
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:30,960
Speaker 1: was approached by quite a few people. I had a

2106
01:58:31,560 --> 01:58:35,000
Speaker 1: very good friend down here, a wonderful music business lawyer here,

2107
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:39,040
Speaker 1: a friend who who went to Primary Wave and represented me,

2108
01:58:39,800 --> 01:58:43,760
Speaker 1: and and now I share my catalog and royalties um

2109
01:58:44,920 --> 01:58:48,680
Speaker 1: with Primary Wave, basically my earnings. Okay, just so I understand,

2110
01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:52,040
Speaker 1: you don't own the records, you don't own the publishing,

2111
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:57,440
Speaker 1: but your writer's share and your royalties are now with

2112
01:58:57,600 --> 01:59:00,400
Speaker 1: primary works. Yeah, split with me with still of about

2113
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:02,440
Speaker 1: my company. And did you get a good check to

2114
01:59:02,600 --> 01:59:06,560
Speaker 1: do that? Very very nice? Thank you. Okay, I've probably

2115
01:59:06,600 --> 01:59:09,160
Speaker 1: sworn to secrecy over the over the amount, but it's

2116
01:59:09,400 --> 01:59:11,240
Speaker 1: it's made life a little bit easier. You know. We've

2117
01:59:11,240 --> 01:59:13,440
Speaker 1: paid off the mortgage of the house and all this

2118
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:16,280
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. You know. Okay, So now financially, how

2119
01:59:16,360 --> 01:59:19,240
Speaker 1: are you doing? Yeah? Very good, very good. Okay, yeah,

2120
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:21,480
Speaker 1: very good. I mean I'm not in the wealth category

2121
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:25,360
Speaker 1: that I should be in where, you know, along with

2122
01:59:25,480 --> 01:59:27,840
Speaker 1: most of our contemporaries for what I've done, and I

2123
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:31,440
Speaker 1: suppose I can't really choose, you know, if I wanted to,

2124
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:36,440
Speaker 1: if I wanted to, say, play Glastonbury, I don't really

2125
01:59:36,520 --> 01:59:38,720
Speaker 1: have the kind of people behind me who could push

2126
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:43,040
Speaker 1: that because I can't really afford to hire pr and

2127
01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:46,400
Speaker 1: promotion teams. You know, I'd love to be able to,

2128
01:59:46,600 --> 01:59:50,160
Speaker 1: but I work very independently because I work within my budget.

2129
01:59:50,600 --> 01:59:53,600
Speaker 1: You know. So let's go Bakistan. What happened with your

2130
01:59:53,720 --> 01:59:56,080
Speaker 1: first wife? We divorced. She got fed up with being

2131
01:59:56,200 --> 01:59:59,680
Speaker 1: Mrs Sayer I think, and she was she was going

2132
01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:03,560
Speaker 1: for a tough time, and you know, we we split.

2133
02:00:03,800 --> 02:00:05,720
Speaker 1: That was it? And how was that for you? I

2134
02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:08,320
Speaker 1: promised never to speak to her again. We promised to,

2135
02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, to to not contact each other. What was

2136
02:00:11,160 --> 02:00:13,840
Speaker 1: the basis, what was the inspiration for that? She wanted

2137
02:00:13,880 --> 02:00:16,280
Speaker 1: to go back to her maiden name and have a

2138
02:00:16,360 --> 02:00:19,880
Speaker 1: new life and not be Mrs Sarah any longer, you know,

2139
02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:23,120
Speaker 1: because it's a tough thing for the women when you know,

2140
02:00:23,360 --> 02:00:25,920
Speaker 1: we go to American or business meetings, you know, and

2141
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:28,760
Speaker 1: they say, hey, Leo, nice of me. I said, this

2142
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:31,520
Speaker 1: is Janey's my wife, and they say hi, Hi jan anyway, Leo,

2143
02:00:32,560 --> 02:00:35,120
Speaker 1: and you know, you're just She's She was a very

2144
02:00:35,160 --> 02:00:37,320
Speaker 1: intelligent girl, and she didn't like that, you know, she

2145
02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:39,920
Speaker 1: didn't like that she couldn't get the respect. It's a

2146
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:44,520
Speaker 1: man's world, isn't it, you know, and still very much

2147
02:00:46,040 --> 02:00:49,480
Speaker 1: yeah so so so she needed a change, and she'd

2148
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:54,560
Speaker 1: been incredibly supportive of me in the time we were together. Also,

2149
02:00:54,720 --> 02:00:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, I must say that I had met Donna

2150
02:00:56,760 --> 02:01:01,400
Speaker 1: at this time and also was those you know, lining

2151
02:01:01,480 --> 02:01:03,880
Speaker 1: myself up for a new life, you know, with with

2152
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:08,360
Speaker 1: Donna teller Um, which happened by chance. I mean, Janis

2153
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:10,080
Speaker 1: and I were going through a bad period you know,

2154
02:01:10,200 --> 02:01:13,680
Speaker 1: these things happen, you meet somebody else and there it went.

2155
02:01:13,880 --> 02:01:15,600
Speaker 1: But I'm glad to say I'm still with Donna and

2156
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:18,280
Speaker 1: very faithful now, you know. And that's been thirty six

2157
02:01:18,440 --> 02:01:22,120
Speaker 1: years or so we've been together. Okay, so you ever

2158
02:01:22,240 --> 02:01:24,880
Speaker 1: want to have children or that was something? No, it

2159
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:27,440
Speaker 1: never came into the equation. I mean, Jannis didn't want

2160
02:01:27,480 --> 02:01:30,480
Speaker 1: them when we were together, and we would rather travel

2161
02:01:30,600 --> 02:01:33,920
Speaker 1: than spend the time to make babies. So that was

2162
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:36,200
Speaker 1: the choice. And I think, you know, leaving that behind

2163
02:01:36,360 --> 02:01:42,600
Speaker 1: then and going into now. Um, I don't know. I've

2164
02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:48,080
Speaker 1: always been this very unusual operator. I'm very much, you know,

2165
02:01:48,360 --> 02:01:52,919
Speaker 1: an insular person working within myself. So I suppose really siblings.

2166
02:01:52,960 --> 02:01:55,760
Speaker 1: I never even thought about it. You know. I'm lucky

2167
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:57,440
Speaker 1: that I've had women in my life have been very

2168
02:01:57,480 --> 02:02:03,400
Speaker 1: supportive to my lifestyle. Um, but basically I think the

2169
02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:07,240
Speaker 1: buck always stops with me, you know. That's so that's it. Okay,

2170
02:02:07,400 --> 02:02:11,320
Speaker 1: let's go back. You're working with Richard than David Courtney

2171
02:02:11,360 --> 02:02:14,000
Speaker 1: again and Alan Tarney. You have some success, you're working

2172
02:02:14,080 --> 02:02:17,280
Speaker 1: with our reef. You realize you're being ripped off, like

2173
02:02:17,480 --> 02:02:20,200
Speaker 1: the story you're telling with Warner brothers where they're not

2174
02:02:20,240 --> 02:02:23,040
Speaker 1: going to commit even though you're on solid gold. What's

2175
02:02:23,080 --> 02:02:26,400
Speaker 1: it like to all of a sudden realize you had

2176
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:30,480
Speaker 1: your time, but you're not the priority anymore. And it's

2177
02:02:30,520 --> 02:02:33,320
Speaker 1: a really good question, but you know how this business works.

2178
02:02:34,160 --> 02:02:36,680
Speaker 1: You know, one minute you're thinking about that, going oh God,

2179
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:38,480
Speaker 1: and you're talking to Janis and you said we've got

2180
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:41,080
Speaker 1: to go home. Then the next minute the phone rings

2181
02:02:41,240 --> 02:02:44,640
Speaker 1: and you're on Midnight Special. What do you say? You know?

2182
02:02:44,760 --> 02:02:47,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a very g garious guy. Everybody seems

2183
02:02:47,560 --> 02:02:49,920
Speaker 1: to like me. All the musicians that have worked with

2184
02:02:50,640 --> 02:02:52,840
Speaker 1: still my best friends. I talked to rape Harker, I

2185
02:02:52,920 --> 02:02:55,520
Speaker 1: talked to you all these guys all the time, and

2186
02:02:55,720 --> 02:02:59,240
Speaker 1: we're all friends and we you know, I'm a guy

2187
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:03,360
Speaker 1: who just looks for the positives so very stupidly. I

2188
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:05,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't have put my books in order. I'd have just

2189
02:03:05,320 --> 02:03:07,640
Speaker 1: cracked on. I mean, many other people, I think Bob

2190
02:03:07,680 --> 02:03:09,480
Speaker 1: would have just stopped and said, right, you've got to

2191
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:12,360
Speaker 1: sort this out now. But I never did. I didn't

2192
02:03:12,360 --> 02:03:14,720
Speaker 1: do until it was too late. And then when I

2193
02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:18,080
Speaker 1: did sort things out and took on a different mindset

2194
02:03:18,160 --> 02:03:22,000
Speaker 1: with it all, I think that I would by this

2195
02:03:22,200 --> 02:03:28,400
Speaker 1: time had stated my case enough, you know, recording wise

2196
02:03:28,440 --> 02:03:31,320
Speaker 1: and live wise, that I had a real legacy that

2197
02:03:31,400 --> 02:03:33,520
Speaker 1: I could take a break from for a bit, you know,

2198
02:03:33,640 --> 02:03:36,400
Speaker 1: and sort out the business side. But I think when

2199
02:03:36,440 --> 02:03:38,520
Speaker 1: all that was going on, I was still kind of

2200
02:03:38,680 --> 02:03:42,400
Speaker 1: like feeling that I was half proven, you know, and

2201
02:03:42,480 --> 02:03:44,480
Speaker 1: there was still a lot of work to be done.

2202
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you're only as good as your records, you know,

2203
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:49,680
Speaker 1: and you're only as good as your last live show.

2204
02:03:50,560 --> 02:03:53,000
Speaker 1: So I was feeling at that time that I still

2205
02:03:53,120 --> 02:03:55,760
Speaker 1: had to stay on the case and do the job.

2206
02:03:56,640 --> 02:03:59,080
Speaker 1: You know. Don't complain about these things. You're living. Well,

2207
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:01,760
Speaker 1: it's okay. So how do you feel about your legacy

2208
02:04:01,840 --> 02:04:03,760
Speaker 1: at this moment in time? Proud of all of it,

2209
02:04:03,880 --> 02:04:06,600
Speaker 1: even the mistakes. I like the whole way it fits together,

2210
02:04:06,840 --> 02:04:09,680
Speaker 1: and I like being this kind of slightly obscure artist

2211
02:04:09,800 --> 02:04:12,920
Speaker 1: as well. I mean, I'm not on everybody's lips, and

2212
02:04:13,240 --> 02:04:16,800
Speaker 1: I'm not um, you know, I'm not headline in Glassberry

2213
02:04:16,880 --> 02:04:19,720
Speaker 1: or Paying Maids and Square Gardens, where I think I

2214
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:22,040
Speaker 1: should be. Part of me thinks I should be. But

2215
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:24,960
Speaker 1: but I've still got a lot to you know, there's

2216
02:04:24,960 --> 02:04:29,440
Speaker 1: still a lot of leeway for things to come, and

2217
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:32,720
Speaker 1: I kind of like that. I'm still hungry, I'm still ambitious.

2218
02:04:33,480 --> 02:04:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm seventy four in May. I mean,

2219
02:04:36,640 --> 02:04:39,520
Speaker 1: I can't really be looking at another fifty years, So

2220
02:04:40,360 --> 02:04:43,920
Speaker 1: what what where do you go from here? But I'm

2221
02:04:43,960 --> 02:04:46,000
Speaker 1: having a ball at the moment. I'm really enjoying it.

2222
02:04:46,160 --> 02:04:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm joining the legacy, writing my book and doing all

2223
02:04:49,120 --> 02:04:51,720
Speaker 1: the research and finding out that I've I've done more

2224
02:04:51,800 --> 02:04:54,960
Speaker 1: than I thought, you know, achieve more because I've always

2225
02:04:54,960 --> 02:04:57,880
Speaker 1: been looking at the ball right, you know, in player

2226
02:04:58,000 --> 02:05:00,600
Speaker 1: that at the moment rather than looking back very much.

2227
02:05:00,880 --> 02:05:03,440
Speaker 1: Can you get a victory lap? Can you get a

2228
02:05:03,560 --> 02:05:06,600
Speaker 1: manager or somebody involved who will get you on the

2229
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:10,560
Speaker 1: stage in Glastonbury, will get you one more time around

2230
02:05:10,680 --> 02:05:13,120
Speaker 1: because you still have your voice and you have all

2231
02:05:13,160 --> 02:05:16,680
Speaker 1: those hits? Well, who knows? Who knows? I mean the

2232
02:05:16,760 --> 02:05:20,200
Speaker 1: only problem is that most people in this in this game,

2233
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:25,680
Speaker 1: at this moment, have such a vested interest in everything

2234
02:05:25,760 --> 02:05:28,080
Speaker 1: that they do or want to have vested interests. I mean,

2235
02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:32,120
Speaker 1: it's all about money now, you know, the business has changed.

2236
02:05:32,880 --> 02:05:35,440
Speaker 1: So what's the manager going to do with Leo Saya?

2237
02:05:36,200 --> 02:05:38,160
Speaker 1: He's going to want to make as much money before

2238
02:05:38,160 --> 02:05:41,320
Speaker 1: the guy has a heart attack and kills over. He's

2239
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:45,600
Speaker 1: gonna want because he's used to getting it from young acts.

2240
02:05:45,920 --> 02:05:49,000
Speaker 1: He's gonna want everything. He's gonna want total ownership. So

2241
02:05:49,080 --> 02:05:51,840
Speaker 1: where do I go? Who do I go to? That's

2242
02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:53,800
Speaker 1: not gonna suck me over, because that's the name of

2243
02:05:53,880 --> 02:05:56,640
Speaker 1: the game. We funk people over. Now, that's what we do. Well,

2244
02:05:56,720 --> 02:05:59,839
Speaker 1: it's a separate conversation, although your points are well taken.

2245
02:06:00,480 --> 02:06:03,160
Speaker 1: So you don't have a manager today I do. I

2246
02:06:03,240 --> 02:06:06,680
Speaker 1: have a manager in England and a manager in Australia

2247
02:06:07,080 --> 02:06:09,760
Speaker 1: and they just get me work and look after the

2248
02:06:09,840 --> 02:06:14,320
Speaker 1: business as it were, and Donna Teller oversees everything. Then

2249
02:06:14,440 --> 02:06:16,240
Speaker 1: you have an agent. Who's your agent? Do you have

2250
02:06:16,280 --> 02:06:19,760
Speaker 1: a worldwide agent? Not? Really? Not really? We um I

2251
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:21,560
Speaker 1: mean when we tour in England, we have an agent

2252
02:06:21,640 --> 02:06:23,760
Speaker 1: there that puts all the gigs together and does a

2253
02:06:23,880 --> 02:06:27,000
Speaker 1: very good job of that. He does a few other acts,

2254
02:06:27,080 --> 02:06:30,720
Speaker 1: but he's not the biggest um. And I'll tell you

2255
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:33,160
Speaker 1: what I do have. I have an amazing lawyer, an

2256
02:06:33,200 --> 02:06:37,080
Speaker 1: incredible accountants, both in England and in here, and I

2257
02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:43,760
Speaker 1: split my business North and Southern Hemisphere. So basically, if

2258
02:06:43,840 --> 02:06:45,800
Speaker 1: you like, when I play America, it will be with

2259
02:06:45,880 --> 02:06:49,640
Speaker 1: the English band and the English team, and when I play,

2260
02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:54,440
Speaker 1: say China, it will be China or Asia it will

2261
02:06:54,440 --> 02:06:56,640
Speaker 1: be with the Australian team. So I have a band

2262
02:06:56,680 --> 02:06:59,160
Speaker 1: in Australia and a band in England. And how many

2263
02:06:59,200 --> 02:07:00,760
Speaker 1: gigs a year do you do and how many do

2264
02:07:00,800 --> 02:07:02,600
Speaker 1: you want to do? Well, I'm just off to the UK.

2265
02:07:03,120 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 1: We're finishing an Irish tour that first off that we

2266
02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:11,440
Speaker 1: started in but got broken into because of COVID, when suddenly,

2267
02:07:11,520 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, you couldn't have more than two hundred people

2268
02:07:14,440 --> 02:07:17,800
Speaker 1: um in a venue at one time, So we had

2269
02:07:17,840 --> 02:07:21,600
Speaker 1: to scotch those rest of those gigs, postpone them, and

2270
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:23,840
Speaker 1: then I'm doing the rest of those and a few

2271
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:26,680
Speaker 1: more in Ireland in August, and then I'm doing a

2272
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:30,640
Speaker 1: thirty six day British tour um and that's going to

2273
02:07:30,760 --> 02:07:35,360
Speaker 1: be from middle of September to November, and then hopefully,

2274
02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:38,840
Speaker 1: with conversations going on with Primary Waive as well, at

2275
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:42,000
Speaker 1: the moment, I'll be coming to America next year. Well,

2276
02:07:42,040 --> 02:07:45,360
Speaker 1: I certainly look forward to seeing you. Are you doing

2277
02:07:45,440 --> 02:07:48,600
Speaker 1: these live gigs to stay alive or because you want

2278
02:07:48,640 --> 02:07:50,280
Speaker 1: to do it. No, I'm doing it because I wanted

2279
02:07:50,320 --> 02:07:52,080
Speaker 1: to it, and also it keeps me young. You know,

2280
02:07:52,720 --> 02:07:56,080
Speaker 1: I've still got my hair and I've still got my voice,

2281
02:07:56,320 --> 02:08:00,400
Speaker 1: and I think working really sort of is import into that.

2282
02:08:00,480 --> 02:08:03,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we've we've all gone through a complete change

2283
02:08:03,120 --> 02:08:06,520
Speaker 1: of life, haven't we. With the COVID times and everything

2284
02:08:06,560 --> 02:08:10,600
Speaker 1: has changed. I mean, you know, every every reliable uh

2285
02:08:12,480 --> 02:08:16,720
Speaker 1: let's say, everything that you could rely on was was

2286
02:08:17,040 --> 02:08:19,600
Speaker 1: carted away, you know, so you had to kind of

2287
02:08:19,680 --> 02:08:21,520
Speaker 1: change a little bit. I mean, I've been doing live

2288
02:08:22,960 --> 02:08:26,160
Speaker 1: link ups with my band on Zoom just to keep

2289
02:08:26,280 --> 02:08:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, us all kind of working together. I've been

2290
02:08:29,280 --> 02:08:33,080
Speaker 1: making internet songs and releasing a lot of stuff on

2291
02:08:33,200 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 1: Zoom I'm sorry. On on YouTube, I do a song

2292
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:39,560
Speaker 1: called white how did We get here? All about the pandemic,

2293
02:08:40,280 --> 02:08:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, because everybody's trying to blame everybody else. You

2294
02:08:43,560 --> 02:08:46,200
Speaker 1: can see that one if you like. It's on YouTube.

2295
02:08:46,680 --> 02:08:49,400
Speaker 1: And then I did a song from Melbourne because when

2296
02:08:49,440 --> 02:08:53,280
Speaker 1: that city did the hardest lockdown that anybody had known, um,

2297
02:08:54,400 --> 02:08:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, it was kind of completely decimated. And Melbourne

2298
02:08:57,600 --> 02:09:00,280
Speaker 1: is my playtown. I live in near Sydne, me but

2299
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:03,720
Speaker 1: Melbourne is the place where all the gigs are. And

2300
02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:07,200
Speaker 1: so I was kind of like writing a sympathetic song there,

2301
02:09:07,320 --> 02:09:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, almost a rap that was actually and now

2302
02:09:10,360 --> 02:09:12,280
Speaker 1: I'm just writing a song at the moment for the

2303
02:09:12,480 --> 02:09:17,080
Speaker 1: Ukraine UM, which is basically on the angle of what

2304
02:09:17,160 --> 02:09:19,520
Speaker 1: are we going to do with all the refugees, which

2305
02:09:19,560 --> 02:09:24,320
Speaker 1: is an important question. So it's done like footsteps, like

2306
02:09:24,440 --> 02:09:26,880
Speaker 1: a walk. It's called take a walk with Me. So

2307
02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:30,280
Speaker 1: you take somebody through a song which is, you know,

2308
02:09:30,560 --> 02:09:35,480
Speaker 1: a very classic kind of UM styled song UM, and

2309
02:09:35,560 --> 02:09:39,080
Speaker 1: you're inviting someone to leave the city that's falling apart

2310
02:09:39,200 --> 02:09:42,560
Speaker 1: but below them and saying you're always going to look

2311
02:09:42,600 --> 02:09:44,960
Speaker 1: after them, never let them down. And I don't know

2312
02:09:45,000 --> 02:09:46,920
Speaker 1: where to place the song, but I'll probably just make

2313
02:09:46,960 --> 02:09:48,640
Speaker 1: a YouTube of it and put it out there and

2314
02:09:49,160 --> 02:09:51,800
Speaker 1: be nice if someone from UNICEF or someone picked it

2315
02:09:51,880 --> 02:09:54,840
Speaker 1: up and used it. But we'll see. I mean, I

2316
02:09:54,920 --> 02:09:57,280
Speaker 1: work in a vacuum, Bob. I'm a very unusual guy.

2317
02:09:57,880 --> 02:10:02,040
Speaker 1: I work. I'm like you know, m yeah, I'm like

2318
02:10:02,200 --> 02:10:06,520
Speaker 1: vank gosh, I I work on this staff. I mean,

2319
02:10:07,160 --> 02:10:09,960
Speaker 1: I actually hope that my legacy is bigger when I'm

2320
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:13,640
Speaker 1: dead than it is when I'm alive. Well, you're very optimistic,

2321
02:10:14,120 --> 02:10:17,320
Speaker 1: still working. We didn't plumb a lot of topics, like

2322
02:10:17,440 --> 02:10:22,400
Speaker 1: your relationships with all of these musicians and stars. But

2323
02:10:22,680 --> 02:10:26,960
Speaker 1: I admire your optimism and the fact that you still

2324
02:10:27,200 --> 02:10:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, especially in light of the story you've told

2325
02:10:29,520 --> 02:10:32,400
Speaker 1: about when you leased the Big Space and then it

2326
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:35,480
Speaker 1: devastated you and you had a nervous breakdown. Have you

2327
02:10:35,560 --> 02:10:38,400
Speaker 1: ever been close to that feeling again? Was that one

2328
02:10:38,480 --> 02:10:40,920
Speaker 1: and done? I don't know if you've heard of a

2329
02:10:40,960 --> 02:10:46,840
Speaker 1: show called Big Brother, absolutely absolutely awful. I after chasing

2330
02:10:46,880 --> 02:10:51,320
Speaker 1: a record deal a band about two thousand and five

2331
02:10:51,760 --> 02:10:55,440
Speaker 1: or six, I um, I was invited to go on

2332
02:10:55,600 --> 02:10:59,240
Speaker 1: Big Brother in England celebrity brig Brother, and I went

2333
02:10:59,320 --> 02:11:01,640
Speaker 1: on there and they I just left England at the time,

2334
02:11:01,720 --> 02:11:04,120
Speaker 1: and I think I said some things about leaving England

2335
02:11:04,520 --> 02:11:06,160
Speaker 1: so glad to get out of here, so happy to

2336
02:11:06,240 --> 02:11:09,280
Speaker 1: go to Australia, and they really seized on all of

2337
02:11:09,320 --> 02:11:11,560
Speaker 1: that and gave me a rotten hard time. And I

2338
02:11:11,680 --> 02:11:15,000
Speaker 1: ended up breaking out of there because I experienced incredible

2339
02:11:15,040 --> 02:11:18,560
Speaker 1: claustrophobia and the fact that when you go in there,

2340
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:21,240
Speaker 1: they take your watch away from you, you know, they

2341
02:11:21,320 --> 02:11:24,160
Speaker 1: take your your your They don't give you any pens

2342
02:11:24,240 --> 02:11:27,560
Speaker 1: to write down with anything with. I was suddenly in

2343
02:11:27,600 --> 02:11:31,840
Speaker 1: a creative vacuum, and I can't honestly say that. Many

2344
02:11:31,920 --> 02:11:35,040
Speaker 1: of my fellow contestants were the most inspiring people to

2345
02:11:35,080 --> 02:11:39,080
Speaker 1: be with as well, so they just gave me a

2346
02:11:39,160 --> 02:11:41,560
Speaker 1: hard time. So I did half the show in mine,

2347
02:11:42,160 --> 02:11:44,720
Speaker 1: which I thought was quite fun to do. So I

2348
02:11:45,040 --> 02:11:47,840
Speaker 1: was just doing hand signals, you know. The rest of

2349
02:11:47,920 --> 02:11:51,560
Speaker 1: it I wrote, and my breath on glass panes. Some

2350
02:11:51,720 --> 02:11:53,680
Speaker 1: of it I actually found a little piece of metal

2351
02:11:53,720 --> 02:11:57,000
Speaker 1: and revealed all the cameras to everybody by taking panels out.

2352
02:11:57,360 --> 02:12:00,680
Speaker 1: I went to war with the show basically, and I

2353
02:12:00,800 --> 02:12:05,920
Speaker 1: found doing that. You know, I'm such a rebel. I

2354
02:12:06,080 --> 02:12:09,760
Speaker 1: just I can't do anything like anybody else does. I

2355
02:12:09,840 --> 02:12:12,720
Speaker 1: have to do it my own way. I'm born with

2356
02:12:12,840 --> 02:12:17,200
Speaker 1: this gene of having to invent myself and and do that.

2357
02:12:17,400 --> 02:12:20,760
Speaker 1: So I would actually say, I mean, my feeling is

2358
02:12:20,800 --> 02:12:24,720
Speaker 1: that I'm a true artist, and you know sometimes that

2359
02:12:24,840 --> 02:12:27,160
Speaker 1: people say that's very big headed or something you know,

2360
02:12:27,320 --> 02:12:29,960
Speaker 1: to say, But I know all the criteria that an

2361
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:35,720
Speaker 1: artist needs to have, and it's not a reliance on corporates, companies,

2362
02:12:36,920 --> 02:12:40,560
Speaker 1: other people even it's basically it all comes from me.

2363
02:12:41,960 --> 02:12:45,480
Speaker 1: Everything I do is part of this vivid imagination that

2364
02:12:45,640 --> 02:12:49,440
Speaker 1: was born with that I've always had. I can dream

2365
02:12:49,520 --> 02:12:52,080
Speaker 1: songs into being. I can create things from a blank

2366
02:12:52,280 --> 02:12:57,040
Speaker 1: sheet of paper. Um So I just have to follow that,

2367
02:12:57,200 --> 02:13:01,320
Speaker 1: and that's that's that's my skill set. My skill set

2368
02:13:01,400 --> 02:13:04,200
Speaker 1: is to trust myself, to listen to myself and to

2369
02:13:04,320 --> 02:13:07,840
Speaker 1: follow myself. And most of the people in my life

2370
02:13:07,920 --> 02:13:13,560
Speaker 1: now appreciate that and let me do it, and let me.

2371
02:13:14,440 --> 02:13:17,480
Speaker 1: Let me make a mistake. If I make a mistake,

2372
02:13:18,440 --> 02:13:20,720
Speaker 1: let me do something glorious. If I do it glorious.

2373
02:13:20,760 --> 02:13:22,520
Speaker 1: But they know the only way to get something good

2374
02:13:22,560 --> 02:13:24,280
Speaker 1: out of me is to let me do it. I

2375
02:13:24,400 --> 02:13:30,720
Speaker 1: designed my own show. Um I I do everything. I'm

2376
02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:35,320
Speaker 1: an autobiographer. I'm writing my book completely by myself. Nobody's helping.

2377
02:13:35,440 --> 02:13:39,000
Speaker 1: I'm doing all the research by myself. It's been a

2378
02:13:39,560 --> 02:13:44,920
Speaker 1: monstrous task. And to find stuff that I didn't even

2379
02:13:44,960 --> 02:13:47,680
Speaker 1: know about. It's a revelation as well, you know. So

2380
02:13:48,440 --> 02:13:51,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I'm I think probably when

2381
02:13:51,520 --> 02:13:54,840
Speaker 1: that book comes out and people hopefully get to read it,

2382
02:13:54,920 --> 02:13:57,400
Speaker 1: if I can find the right publisher, and maybe even

2383
02:13:57,480 --> 02:13:59,520
Speaker 1: we can make a biopic of it. I think I've

2384
02:13:59,560 --> 02:14:03,200
Speaker 1: got to love a story to tell and the fact

2385
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:06,000
Speaker 1: if I'm a little bit obscure and a little bit

2386
02:14:06,120 --> 02:14:10,600
Speaker 1: off the radar because of them, may I mean I'm

2387
02:14:10,600 --> 02:14:13,080
Speaker 1: not living I'm not with Live Nation, I'm not with

2388
02:14:14,400 --> 02:14:18,800
Speaker 1: Sony Records or anybody like that. You know, Um, I'm

2389
02:14:18,960 --> 02:14:22,160
Speaker 1: very much off the radar um. But if people want

2390
02:14:22,200 --> 02:14:24,720
Speaker 1: to discover me, they'll find something I think that is

2391
02:14:24,920 --> 02:14:28,560
Speaker 1: very different and very unique. Well, certainly your conversation with

2392
02:14:28,680 --> 02:14:32,720
Speaker 1: me today has been different, unique and intriguing. Leo. I

2393
02:14:32,800 --> 02:14:34,840
Speaker 1: want to thank you for taking all this time with me.

2394
02:14:35,080 --> 02:14:37,720
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bob. And I've always been a big admirer

2395
02:14:37,760 --> 02:14:39,520
Speaker 1: of you, and I love the I love the column

2396
02:14:39,640 --> 02:14:43,440
Speaker 1: and and the blog, and you're one of the good guys.

2397
02:14:43,520 --> 02:14:45,320
Speaker 1: So it's a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you.

2398
02:14:45,920 --> 02:14:48,520
Speaker 1: Till next time. This is Barbed Worth Sex