Speaker 1: Welcome back everyone to the Golden Hour.
Speaker 2: I'm Susan, and I think today I will be Kathy.
Speaker 1: I think you will. How are you, honey.
Speaker 2: I'm just doing great. I'm loving World Cup. I just
Speaker 2: I wish World Cup came every year. I love soccer.
Speaker 2: And do you know I understand the off side's rule?
Speaker 2: Just so we're all clear here.
Speaker 1: And he was a coach where you was a referee.
Speaker 1: I was a referee anytimes. I just watched those handsome
Speaker 1: guys kick that ball around.
Speaker 2: Damn and they can't touch with their hands. Susan, that's
Speaker 2: rule number one.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: All right, today we got this. I'm so excited. We
Speaker 2: have a very special guest this week who is not
Speaker 2: only a Bachelorette alum and Paradise slum too. I think
Speaker 2: Buddy is coming out with a new children's book. Hello
Speaker 2: Michael Allio or how are you?
Speaker 3: Hey, Kathy? Hey, Susan, how you doing it? Thanks for
Speaker 3: having me on.
Speaker 2: We are doing great. We are doing great. I don't
Speaker 2: even know where to begin. First of all, how are you?
Speaker 2: Let's start there.
Speaker 3: I'm doing great. Life is really good. I think we're
Speaker 3: in the seasons of blessings over here and we're in
Speaker 3: the process of like remodeling every single room in our house.
Speaker 3: It started as one single room and now it's just
Speaker 3: exploded into everything. So I just got back from a
Speaker 3: thrift store and a bunch of stuff. I don't even
Speaker 3: know where it goes, but it's gonna.
Speaker 2: Go from I just finished a remodeling. Trust me, it's
Speaker 2: like disease. It spreads very great.
Speaker 3: That's work scope, and it just takes off. It takes
Speaker 3: a life of its own.
Speaker 1: It's a project, for sure. But Michael, just to let
Speaker 1: our fans know a little bit more about you, how
Speaker 1: would you describe the version of Michael that walked onto
Speaker 1: the Bachelorette compared to who you are today? I know
Speaker 1: you've been through quite a bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think anyone who's been on the show,
Speaker 3: and been on the Bachelor, of Bachelorette, any of the
Speaker 3: franchise shows, you get a snippet of what each person is.
Speaker 3: You never get the totality of what any individual is.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I would say, looking back on myself
Speaker 3: in the Bachelorette role, it was two years after Laura
Speaker 3: had passed. I was very much caught up in grief,
Speaker 3: and you know, trying to figure out where my life
Speaker 3: was really going, how I was going to make You know,
Speaker 3: these next leaps in chapters into my life happen. You know,
Speaker 3: it was two years as a single parent, and at
Speaker 3: the time, I mean anyone that's experienced grief whatsoever, you
Speaker 3: always feel as though if you're farther along from a
Speaker 3: time perspective, you feel like you're processing it better. But
Speaker 3: it isn't until afterwards, when you actually make sense of
Speaker 3: everything and life starts to take shape, that you can
Speaker 3: look backwards and say, man, I was I was totally lost.
Speaker 3: So I would say this version of myself is just
Speaker 3: I don't know, a lot more, a lot more grateful,
Speaker 3: a lot more clear than I've than I've ever been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, the same thing, you know, walking through the
Speaker 2: grief that you and I have both losing spouses. Do
Speaker 2: you feel like your experience though changed you, because I
Speaker 2: know my experience being on the Golden Bachelor changed me.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like it actually changed the way you
Speaker 2: look at life?
Speaker 3: I think it exposed me to things I otherwise would
Speaker 3: not have been exposed to. I mean, I think anytime
Speaker 3: you put yourself into onto a show, you you welcome
Speaker 3: public praise and also public criticism at the same exact light.
Speaker 3: So that was one thing that I had to learn
Speaker 3: to adjust is waking up on Monday morning and random
Speaker 3: people having an opinion about who you are and headlines
Speaker 3: and all of that. So it's a bit of a
Speaker 3: bizarre world that you have to adjust to. But I
Speaker 3: would say, at the core, it really hasn't changed at
Speaker 3: all who I am. I feel like I feel like
Speaker 3: in each season of my own life, I've I've stayed
Speaker 3: pretty true to the principles that that I've been raised
Speaker 3: with that seemed to be working for the most part,
Speaker 3: aren't bulletproof, but seemed to be working, and you know,
Speaker 3: try to try to stay true to that.
Speaker 1: And wasn't it true that your son wanted you to
Speaker 1: come home?
Speaker 3: And you yes, yeah, absolutely, And you know, I think
Speaker 3: I think when I went on the show for the
Speaker 3: first time, looking back, we actually didn't even know Katie
Speaker 3: was going to be the bachelorette. We were we were
Speaker 3: sitting in quarantine in New Mexico, and all of a
Speaker 3: sudden it was announced while we were there Katie was
Speaker 3: going to be the bachelorette. So it's like you're walking
Speaker 3: in there trying. You're kind of walking in to an
Speaker 3: experience and then once it starts, then you kind of
Speaker 3: open yourself up to you know, love and the whole
Speaker 3: entire process. And so it was. It was a bizarre
Speaker 3: but really amazing experience. Like I'm so happy that I
Speaker 3: did it because it's an experience a few people can
Speaker 3: actually talk about, that's.
Speaker 1: Right, And it had to help you with what you
Speaker 1: had just gone through for two years, Yeah, to help
Speaker 1: you take that next step back into your life again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was saying this before it was
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. Laura passed. Then for two years, just trying
Speaker 3: to figure out support system, what is new normals, you know,
Speaker 3: scared for my child that he's going to grow up
Speaker 3: with dad that has no idea what he's doing, and
Speaker 3: he would be to be scared about that. And then
Speaker 3: COVID hits and then it's like, oh my gosh, like
Speaker 3: there is my whole entire support system. There goes everything.
Speaker 3: And it just so happened that the producers had reached
Speaker 3: out to me on Instagram during that time, and it
Speaker 3: felt like a good time to just kind of roll
Speaker 3: the dice and take a risk and jump into a
Speaker 3: new experience, and I'm I'm happy I did.
Speaker 1: It saved you almost if you will, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I needed the spark. Yeah, And I think as we
Speaker 3: get older, there's you can get caught up in the
Speaker 3: routine of life. You can lose your zust, you know,
Speaker 3: your youthfulness, like the things that used to fire you up.
Speaker 3: And it was an important reminder to me to say
Speaker 3: yes to things that feel uncomfortable and to dive in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to say and I've said this to Susan.
Speaker 2: You and I share the grief of losing a spouse
Speaker 2: and saying yes two opportunities has given me strength and
Speaker 2: solidified my walk through grief and dealing with all the
Speaker 2: things that that we deal with. Your son, though, was two.
Speaker 2: Laura was thirty three when she died. You had this
Speaker 2: two year old son. Was there a moment in time
Speaker 2: because my children were older when my spouse, my husband, Daryl, died.
Speaker 2: Was there a moment where you realize that grief isn't
Speaker 2: just a momentary deal, It's something that you live with.
Speaker 2: It has different incarnations. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the short answer is I learned that
Speaker 3: every single day. And I think there was a turning
Speaker 3: point where I wanted to go back to the person
Speaker 3: I was before grief hit my life, and I was
Speaker 3: wrongfully using that as the metric that I needed to
Speaker 3: get back to in the benchmark. And the truth is
Speaker 3: is that when grief or something hits your life, or
Speaker 3: you go through something that transformative, you're no longer that
Speaker 3: person anymore. And kind of welcoming that new version of
Speaker 3: myself that had been through those I mean traumas that
Speaker 3: have been through the struggle that was the beginning to
Speaker 3: being able to heal. And again, healing isn't the absence
Speaker 3: of sadness. It's embracing it, actually, and it's allowing yourself
Speaker 3: to have all of those emotions that come with it.
Speaker 3: And I think for a while was the avoidance of
Speaker 3: pain that I was seeking and that was completely wrong.
Speaker 3: If I could go back to talk to myself again,
Speaker 3: I would tell myself, like, run into it, feel all
Speaker 3: the feels. It's just, you know, the amount of sadness
Speaker 3: that I felt is just the way to the amount
Speaker 3: of love that I had for Laura. And so that
Speaker 3: that's a blessing and that's something I carry with me today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like finding your happy again, because you know
Speaker 1: she would want you to be happy again. Your son
Speaker 1: needs you to be happy and possitive.
Speaker 3: And we deserve it. Yeah, I mean at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, like I think there was, there was
Speaker 3: a long time there where I felt like an obligation
Speaker 3: to live a life for Laura, and I lost myself
Speaker 3: a little bit in that process. To be honest, I
Speaker 3: forgot who Michael was because I was very much in
Speaker 3: this service role of trying to do that. So as
Speaker 3: much as I honor Laura and just about everything that
Speaker 3: I do and I see her every day and my son,
Speaker 3: I lost a bit of my own identity in the
Speaker 3: process as a caregiver, as a father, as you guys
Speaker 3: know as parents, and all the roles that we play,
Speaker 3: like who are we now?
Speaker 1: How did this happen?
Speaker 3: Where are we?
Speaker 2: You know, you talk about being a caregiver and getting
Speaker 2: lord to all our doctor's appointments and everything that you
Speaker 2: had to you had to be strong for her, and
Speaker 2: then that void, that emptiness, that the suddenness of Okay,
Speaker 2: now I have a two year old to raise, and
Speaker 2: I again, my children were older and we had different
Speaker 2: conversations about loss and grief and all of those things.
Speaker 2: But for me, my kids were obviously a little bit older,
Speaker 2: so in some ways, in some ways it was more difficult.
Speaker 2: In some ways it was easier to have those conversations.
Speaker 2: But we now have gotten to a place in our
Speaker 2: family where we can make jokes and bring back the
Speaker 2: wonderful memories. That's got to be different for you because
Speaker 2: your son was so young. How do you keep Laura's
Speaker 2: memory alive? For James?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say in the beginning, I didn't want
Speaker 3: my son to forget how great his mother was. And
Speaker 3: then there was a point where I had to stop
Speaker 3: myself because I could be pushing this kind of guilt
Speaker 3: on him that he doesn't remember. And so what I
Speaker 3: started to do was, I mean, I told him stories
Speaker 3: about his mom, if he did something where he laughed
Speaker 3: just like her. I mean nature and nurture. I've said
Speaker 3: this before. It is nature all the way I mean
Speaker 3: he is. She is very much in him and it's
Speaker 3: a beautiful thing to see. And just like you, Kathy,
Speaker 3: there was a time when we couldn't look back at
Speaker 3: those memories without being sad, and now we're looking back
Speaker 3: there with a smile as how blessed we were that that,
Speaker 3: you know, out of the billions of years of the
Speaker 3: earth being around and all the billions of people, that
Speaker 3: somehow we crossed paths and created something so beautiful as
Speaker 3: this kid. And so yeah, I mean it's it's it's
Speaker 3: absolutely a tragedy, but I've I've tried to find the
Speaker 3: silver linings in it over time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what made you start your book? What were
Speaker 1: your thoughts going in?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the book really wasn't meant to be a book.
Speaker 3: It was a way. Well first it started as me
Speaker 3: acknowledging as a parent that I don't have the answers
Speaker 3: and breaching some of these topics are very uncomfortable for me.
Speaker 3: You know, there's so many things I had to learn
Speaker 3: as being both mother and father. It was, you know,
Speaker 3: rubbed some dirt on it, and you know its his
Speaker 3: kisses booboo, and.
Speaker 1: Which one should I do make you a man, a
Speaker 1: tough guy or kiss exactly?
Speaker 3: I mean, I got way these things out. So, I
Speaker 3: mean I've tried to learn all of these things. And
Speaker 3: one thing I've always loved doing was writing. So again,
Speaker 3: it never started as a book. I wrote actually thirty
Speaker 3: five of these stories that we would read at bedtime,
Speaker 3: that addressed not just grief, but growing up and all
Speaker 3: of the challenges that could be losing touch with a friend,
Speaker 3: that could be forgiving people, resentfulness, individuality, all of these
Speaker 3: things that kids but also grown ups struggle with too.
Speaker 3: And so in many ways, this book is equally for
Speaker 3: adults lessons that we forgot when we were kids, and
Speaker 3: it's it's really explained through kids' stories because we're more
Speaker 3: open to hearing it when it's in kids language than
Speaker 3: when someone's preaching at us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and kids and kids are so not judgmental, they're
Speaker 2: so open to receiving receiving messages. But and I have
Speaker 2: to tell the truth here. I've already ordered your book.
Speaker 2: We're going to tell people where they can get it
Speaker 2: in a bit here, But I've already read your book
Speaker 2: and ordered several copies because I think that people will think,
Speaker 2: if they know your story, that this book is about grief.
Speaker 2: And while it does touch on grief, it's what I
Speaker 2: was taken with when I read your book like three times.
Speaker 2: First of all the fabulous, incredible illustrations, but also you
Speaker 2: talk about resiliency, friendship, honesty, courage, all these attributes that
Speaker 2: we want our children to embrace and sometimes as adults
Speaker 2: we need reminders.
Speaker 3: Yes, and thank you for reading it. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3: We poured so much into this and James actually hands
Speaker 3: selected seven of the stories in the book. And we
Speaker 3: use really Nature as a metaphor for growing up, growing old,
Speaker 3: and explaining the seasons of life, because nothing can teach
Speaker 3: us about seasons more than nature. And one of the
Speaker 3: best things that I have learned over the years is,
Speaker 3: no matter what type of emotion you're feeling, you have
Speaker 3: to be able to identify it first. You have to
Speaker 3: be able to understand and name it, name it and
Speaker 3: understand that it's not going to last forever. That we've
Speaker 3: seen these cycles before in our life, whether it was
Speaker 3: when we were fifteen trying to figure out what we're
Speaker 3: going to do with the rest of our life, whether
Speaker 3: it was the right person to get married with, struggling
Speaker 3: to get the job, saving to get the money, all
Speaker 3: of these things. We have gone through these cycles of
Speaker 3: celebrating and beating ourselves up. And you know, grief isn't
Speaker 3: just about losing a person. It is about mourning the
Speaker 3: loss of the person that you thought you would be
Speaker 3: in that season.
Speaker 2: That's right at that moment in time. And I think
Speaker 2: that for me again, Michael, I want to become your
Speaker 2: publicist because I'm totally I'm totally sold on this book.
Speaker 2: But I also feel like it it reminds people we
Speaker 2: all get so busy with our lives living in the moment,
Speaker 2: literally smelling the roses, literally looking up at the clouds,
Speaker 2: looking at the every every story that in this book
Speaker 2: has has multi layers of meaning. And I think that's why.
Speaker 1: To me, it's about being grateful, right, grateful.
Speaker 3: There's there's there's nature, there's gratitude in it. It is
Speaker 3: it is also appreciating the stillness in our lives. I
Speaker 3: know that me, for example, I feel a type of
Speaker 3: anxiety when I don't feel progress in my life. I
Speaker 3: feel like things are stagnant. I get antsy. But the
Speaker 3: truth is is that growth is happening in those still
Speaker 3: moments as well. And sometimes taking that step backwards is
Speaker 3: just regrouping so that you can make the next move.
Speaker 3: And so and there's a lot of different stories about
Speaker 3: that really put nature at the root of it to
Speaker 3: help bring us. At least for me and James, these
Speaker 3: are all our bedtime stories. It brought us a sense
Speaker 3: of calm, knowing that we're not the only ones that
Speaker 3: experienced this sty of It's really shared by almost everything
Speaker 3: in this planet.
Speaker 1: And as you were writing these short stories for his bedtime,
Speaker 1: do you think you were helping yourself heal At the
Speaker 1: same time, I was.
Speaker 3: Always writing them for myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean we always say the words we wish someone
Speaker 3: would say to us, right, And this book, if you
Speaker 3: read it, it doesn't lecture, it doesn't give you answers.
Speaker 3: It's it's supposed to create a conversation. Being clean, Yeah,
Speaker 3: a little critical thinking, create a natural bridge between parent
Speaker 3: and so that a conversation can happen. And what I
Speaker 3: have found is that every time I just had a
Speaker 3: conversation about the birds and bees with my son, I
Speaker 3: was freaking out about having this up.
Speaker 2: Is that in volume two of the next book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a different kind of nature that did not
Speaker 3: get put out of this book. But I'm sitting there sweating, like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, how do I bring this up? Geez,
Speaker 3: I wish suck I could get some help here. I
Speaker 3: brought up and he was like, oh, okay, cool, like
Speaker 3: he totally understood it. He you know, he I'm sure
Speaker 3: he'll have follow up questions. But kids can under I
Speaker 3: don't know. Kids can handle things sometimes a lot better
Speaker 3: than adults can.
Speaker 2: We overthink everything, and and kids are I think, much
Speaker 2: more resilient as us. They're just there and they're they
Speaker 2: they're not as judgmental. I mean, it's it's really we
Speaker 2: all need to recapture our childlike brains and minds.
Speaker 3: Because yes, in a way, yes, And when I was
Speaker 3: writing this book, I'm glad Kathy, when you read it
Speaker 3: you saw the layers, because I really wanted it to
Speaker 3: be a way for parent and child to connect at bedtime,
Speaker 3: but I've also wanted parents to It's almost a kid's
Speaker 3: book written for adults too. On the flip side, yeah,
Speaker 3: and for example, there's there's a story about a tale
Speaker 3: of two streams in here, where two streams live their
Speaker 3: whole entire life running parallel to each other. They swear
Speaker 3: they're going to be best friends for the rest of
Speaker 3: their life, and then they run into this big boulder
Speaker 3: that forces them to go their opposite directions. One takes
Speaker 3: the high land, the other one goes to the lowland.
Speaker 3: They experience totally different things and are fulfilled as individuals
Speaker 3: by that journey, so that one obstacle felt like the
Speaker 3: end of the world, but life continues and they end
Speaker 3: up coming back together, completely changed and better for it.
Speaker 3: So a kid may see two streams, but an adult
Speaker 3: may see a friend that they lost touch with that
Speaker 3: maybe they've outgrown in this season of life. Maybe it's
Speaker 3: a partner in a relationship and a divorce where that's
Speaker 3: where the road ends, and that's okay, And if the
Speaker 3: world brings us back together, then so be it. But
Speaker 3: for now, this season, it's time for us to go
Speaker 3: our different ways.
Speaker 1: Have you always been this level headed? I don't mean,
Speaker 1: come on, tell me the truth?
Speaker 3: Now? Who was who you talk to? I guess you.
Speaker 2: Read I was going to ask you, Michael, if, because
Speaker 2: truly I love all the stories, is there one story
Speaker 2: that feels particularly personal to you?
Speaker 3: I mean, they're all rooted in something that happened in
Speaker 3: my life. There's the bird that carried stones I think
Speaker 3: is one that's highly relatable, where there's stones thrown at
Speaker 3: this bird, and this bird figures out that the only
Speaker 3: way it can stay safe is if it gathers all
Speaker 3: the stones on the ground and sits on them. And
Speaker 3: so it just sits on these stones and it keeps
Speaker 3: them from flying, and so it starts to let them go.
Speaker 3: And that's I think. I think letting go and forgiveness
Speaker 3: is an easy thing to understand and to say, and
Speaker 3: it's a hard thing to truly feel. You really have to,
Speaker 3: you know, resentfulness can can can breed people that have
Speaker 3: done you wrong in the past, and really, what are
Speaker 3: we doing with all of that? We're really just carrying
Speaker 3: in reliving the worst situation that happened to us over
Speaker 3: and over and over again and giving it more late
Speaker 3: you got.
Speaker 2: It, I have to say, gotta let it go. But
Speaker 2: for me, the story about the tree, especially for you
Speaker 2: and me who have have suffered this extreme loss. And
Speaker 2: as you say, people have all kinds of losses in
Speaker 2: their life. But this tree that is worried about uh,
Speaker 2: in the fall loses its leaves, it's acorns, It can't
Speaker 2: provide shelter, it can't provide nourishment, all those things. But
Speaker 2: in the spring it starts over. And I read that
Speaker 2: book and it's read that story and it's it's such
Speaker 2: a reminder that we stand tall and we we we
Speaker 2: have that rebirth, and it's up to us to find
Speaker 2: ways to to build a new life. My heart was broken,
Speaker 2: my husband died, but I am a better person for it.
Speaker 2: I've learned so many lessons and change so much. So
Speaker 2: that's the story that speaks to me. They all speak
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: But I love, I absolutely love that you you connected
Speaker 3: with that one. And I think for me that is
Speaker 3: a lesson looking at my life down the road. That
Speaker 3: I'm a parent right now and I will be the
Speaker 3: best damn parent that I can be, but that's not
Speaker 3: all I can be, and I can't wrap my whole
Speaker 3: entire life. And it's an anxiety into a child that
Speaker 3: will go off and create his own life for himself.
Speaker 3: And I've seen this happen with so many parents, where
Speaker 3: once they become empty nesters, they look at their and
Speaker 3: they say, who are we? Yeah, you know, when there's
Speaker 3: no longer a schedule, when there's no longer you know,
Speaker 3: mom and dad and slates and dishes and all these things,
Speaker 3: So we can't lose ourselves in the wilderness of the well.
Speaker 2: That's when you take up golf. Yeah, right, before we
Speaker 2: move on?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, but you fell love again.
Speaker 2: So that's right. But before we get there, before we
Speaker 2: get there, tell everyone, how do they order your book
Speaker 2: because you are not through Amazon, or how do people
Speaker 2: get this incredible book.
Speaker 3: So you can buy it online At the Wildheart Grows
Speaker 3: dot com. We're selling it online and focusing for the
Speaker 3: first twelve months just on independent bookstores mom and pops
Speaker 3: that have been doing good work out there that really
Speaker 3: kind of curate the experience. The books really meant to
Speaker 3: be this heirloom thing that you returned back to at
Speaker 3: different seasons of your life, reread it, and share it.
Speaker 3: All the illustrations were done by a fellow dad whose
Speaker 3: son is actually James's best friend. He's a professional oil
Speaker 3: painter named Luke Streeter, and he he did thirty five
Speaker 3: oil on canvas illustrations for this book by hand, and
Speaker 3: it's it's absolutely stunning. We're so proud of it.
Speaker 1: Gooeah for you. I can't wait read it.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get my copies.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I think they're going to get shipped out
Speaker 3: next week.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can now tell us about Jade.
Speaker 3: Oh where do I start? Yes?
Speaker 1: Where do you start? Where did you start?
Speaker 2: Look at the spile.
Speaker 3: I got so lucky with this one. She she's literally
Speaker 3: like the light that we so needed in our life,
Speaker 3: and so it was after I got off the bachelorette
Speaker 3: she sent me a DM on Instagram and there was
Speaker 3: nothing romantic. It was just a long distance friendship. She
Speaker 3: had gone through some things in her life that she
Speaker 3: related to and from there we just had just a
Speaker 3: long friendship over the span of geez five six years.
Speaker 3: And it really wasn't until about two and a half
Speaker 3: years ago something around that that we came back kind
Speaker 3: of into each other's lives. She was getting off a breakup,
Speaker 3: so is I. And it was nice because it just
Speaker 3: it was a relationship that started as.
Speaker 1: A friendship friendship, which it was.
Speaker 3: Just really really nice. We knew each other, we had
Speaker 3: been there for each other in the past. There was
Speaker 3: no like facade or anything like that. It just felt
Speaker 3: really organic and she's I mean, just to watch her
Speaker 3: and James interact, it's such a relief to me that
Speaker 3: he reaches for her the way he does. It's it's
Speaker 3: it's all of these years of worrying that I had,
Speaker 3: wondering if that was ever going to happen, and if
Speaker 3: it did, would it ever feel as good? And all
Speaker 3: of those have an answered.
Speaker 1: What you happy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jade, and you live together, And I'm curious how
Speaker 2: that how you morphed to view well, you're you and
Speaker 2: James were a team for how many years?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Before? How does that? How did you? How did you
Speaker 2: manage that? I guess is my question.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I it's to say that it's easy to
Speaker 3: blend a family would be alive. It is a challenge,
Speaker 3: especially you know, somebody that lost their mother. It was,
Speaker 3: it was we really had to have a lot of
Speaker 3: conversations about how Laura can never be replaced and that
Speaker 3: how Jade isn't looking to do that. I had to
Speaker 3: have a lot of conversations with Jade about the fact
Speaker 3: that she never has to compete with Laura. Because this
Speaker 3: chapter is all entirely hers. There are so many things
Speaker 3: that Jade and I are doing with James right now
Speaker 3: that are the first time I've ever been able to
Speaker 3: co parent with somebody, and the first time I've ever
Speaker 3: been able to have these kind of memories. It and
Speaker 3: so it Jade moved in two years ago, and at
Speaker 3: first James was like, this is a lot of change happening.
Speaker 3: But Jade did just such a wonderful job of putting
Speaker 3: him at peace, like sitting with him answering his questions,
Speaker 3: reading him stories, and now it's like that's the kind
Speaker 3: of I mean, it's just such a complete household now,
Speaker 3: like it just feels really really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Does he refer to her as mom or no?
Speaker 3: You know sometimes he does when we're at like school events,
Speaker 3: because he's just like calling daddy's girlfriend and like he
Speaker 3: looked over at or he's like just say you're my mom.
Speaker 3: And you know, we're trying to walk through all that,
Speaker 3: but he's not really overly focused on titles and stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: Again, that's the innocence of childhood.
Speaker 3: Yes, it really. I mean, I guess every kid to
Speaker 3: they're probably has their own experience, but James hasn't been
Speaker 3: focused on that. He he just recognizes that for a
Speaker 3: long time, at school events, at birthday parties, we were
Speaker 3: missing a piece. Yeah, and now now we actually feel
Speaker 3: like a completely.
Speaker 2: So since you, since you are so articulate and you
Speaker 2: have found love a second time, and aren't you are
Speaker 2: lucky and we are both so happy for you. But
Speaker 2: what do you say or what would you say to
Speaker 2: someone who has lost a spouse and wonders if they're
Speaker 2: ever going to find love again? What would you want
Speaker 2: to know.
Speaker 3: I would say, well, the first thing I'll say is
Speaker 3: for those people that surround them, give them unconditional support,
Speaker 3: Let them make mistakes, don't put timelines on them, don't judge, like,
Speaker 3: sit with them, listen to them. You have no idea
Speaker 3: the challenges that it takes to get back on your
Speaker 3: feet and to begin walking again after you've been wounded
Speaker 3: so poorly. So there's no room for judgment in the
Speaker 3: in the widower community whatsoever. And just some of the
Speaker 3: things that I've experienced myself, I would just say, the
Speaker 3: best thing you can do is just love and support them.
Speaker 3: And if it's uncomfortable watching somebody go through it, and
Speaker 3: it's uncomfortable watching someone date again, imagine how uncomfortable it
Speaker 3: is for them to have to do it. Like it's
Speaker 3: uncomfortable for everybody, but that's growth. And for people that
Speaker 3: have lost somebody, I would say that do what you want,
Speaker 3: like ignore the noise. If you want to have a
Speaker 3: bad day, have it, but stick with it long enough
Speaker 3: to know that there is hope at the end of this.
Speaker 3: There is Grief never goes away, we we find new
Speaker 3: ways of working with it. It eventually becomes a feeling
Speaker 3: that that feels more normal than it does anything else.
Speaker 1: It's always always there, but it's not always.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always and there are there are certain songs,
Speaker 3: there's certain moments where you feel it all again and
Speaker 3: embrace those because sometimes that that pain that we feel
Speaker 3: is the connection that we still have to the person
Speaker 3: we lost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, well said I it okay.
Speaker 1: So we're going to ask you to do something.
Speaker 2: Really, ye're Michael. Every week we answer questions because we
Speaker 2: are Golden's and we have all the answers to everything
Speaker 2: you do, and so will you help us. We've got
Speaker 2: some questions here and we weigh in on your opinion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's fire away, right, Susan take it to do this?
Speaker 1: Michael, Okay, it says Hi, Susan and Kathy. I'm twenty
Speaker 1: eight and I've been dating my boyfriend for three years
Speaker 1: and everyone keeps asking when we're getting engaged except him.
Speaker 1: He says he wants to marry me someday, but he
Speaker 1: won't talk about a timeline. How long do you wait
Speaker 1: before asking if you're actually on the same page talk
Speaker 1: about labels?
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 3: Michael? Oh, geez, yeah, I mean without knowing too much
Speaker 3: about their relationship. I would say, I would say, have
Speaker 3: a hard conversation with the guy. It's kind of a shit.
Speaker 1: Three years wow, yeah, and you're twenty eight the clock sticking.
Speaker 3: As they know, I will say this, this is one
Speaker 3: thing a lot of guys don't understand. They typically will
Speaker 3: label like women as being crazy for this, but they
Speaker 3: have no idea about the ticking clock. Guys never have
Speaker 3: to worry about this. If guys don't worry about this,
Speaker 3: they would be.
Speaker 1: So no population.
Speaker 3: Yeah maybe right, that's true.
Speaker 2: But wait a second, it's I got to take the
Speaker 2: as I often do Michael, take the opposite stance here.
Speaker 2: If she brings it up, that has the scent of
Speaker 2: ultimatum to me, and I don't think that ever works.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you can go and talk to them about it.
Speaker 2: But now once you do that, you know, once you say, look,
Speaker 2: I'm twenty eight, the clock's ticking, you're really asking him
Speaker 2: to put a label on it. And I feel like
Speaker 2: if he doesn't bring up marriage, maybe he just doesn't
Speaker 2: want to be married.
Speaker 1: But ye should have that conversation.
Speaker 3: I feel like it has to be a conversation because
Speaker 3: I feel like airs happen when the assumptions start getting made,
Speaker 3: and it's it doesn't have to be necessarily an ultimatum.
Speaker 3: But I think if she knows her partner as well
Speaker 3: as she should after three years, through a lighter line
Speaker 3: of questioning, she could probably get a hint as to
Speaker 3: how committed he really is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, when he says someday, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: liking when I'm hearing someday.
Speaker 1: But Emily, don't be afraid to talk to him in
Speaker 1: a nice calm, just say I just want to make
Speaker 1: sure this is what I'm thinking, Share what your thoughts
Speaker 1: and your wants are. Not necessarily asking him to push
Speaker 1: or you know, walker crawl here. This is what I
Speaker 1: want within this timeframe. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: And if that doesn't work right.
Speaker 3: I'm glad I'm out of the dating world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It thanks a lot, Michael. We're loving hearing that. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: This next one is from Jordan from Dallas. Hey, girls,
Speaker 2: I recently started dating a guy I really like, but
Speaker 2: he has a six year old daughter. I'm twenty eight
Speaker 2: and don't have kids, and I'm terrified of messing this up.
Speaker 2: When is the right time to become part of a
Speaker 2: child's life without overstepping You'll have the answer to that one.
Speaker 3: Michael, go baby, Wow, Jordan's got hands full there. I so,
Speaker 3: I truthfully believe that we build up and we always
Speaker 3: look at these worst case scenarios versus just bringing things
Speaker 3: up calmly and having just realed down to earth authentic conversation.
Speaker 3: So I would, if I was in Jordan's position, have
Speaker 3: a conversation with the child's parents and say, what makes
Speaker 3: you comfortable, Let's work on messaging. How can I spend
Speaker 3: more time with the six year old as just us two,
Speaker 3: because one of the things is is when you're all
Speaker 3: three together as a group, usually the child feels kind
Speaker 3: of in the middle and is pulling for attention and
Speaker 3: there's no room for the two people that need to
Speaker 3: make the biggest connection to really connect. So one on
Speaker 3: one time with the child so that they understand that
Speaker 3: this person that's coming into their house is, in addition,
Speaker 3: not a threat.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's nothing to add to that. That's actually a
Speaker 2: great answer.
Speaker 1: Thanks Jordan. We wish you luck. I hope it all
Speaker 1: works out.
Speaker 3: Because I've experienced that.
Speaker 1: Okay, we have one more and this is from Samantha
Speaker 1: from Boston. My fiance and I have always split everything
Speaker 1: right down the middle, and it's worked really well for us.
Speaker 1: But I recently got a huge promotion and now I
Speaker 1: make almost twice what he does. I can tell it's
Speaker 1: affected his confidence, even though he insists he's happy for me.
Speaker 1: He used to insist on paying for date nights, but
Speaker 1: now he'll make comments like I guess you can cover
Speaker 1: this one. There are jokes, but they don't really feel
Speaker 1: like jokes. Not sure how to handle this.
Speaker 2: I'd send them on the freedom Trail.
Speaker 1: I'd be like, no, babe, I got it. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: pay for vacation this year.
Speaker 3: Right. You get a car, You get a.
Speaker 1: Car, I want a house.
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Right. But you know, I this is this is a
Speaker 3: tricky one because I will say I will just speak
Speaker 3: for myself, like I I was just raising that old
Speaker 3: school way, I mean, where we pay for open doors,
Speaker 3: we pay for things, but by no means is that
Speaker 3: caught up in my own identity. I do that because
Speaker 3: it's a love language of mine. I like to provide.
Speaker 3: I like to work hard and let other people enjoy it.
Speaker 3: And so I mean, I guess she probably needs to
Speaker 3: figure out is he really offended and that's probably going
Speaker 3: to be a difficult answer to truly get because he
Speaker 3: will say no because he's probably embarrassed by the fact
Speaker 3: that he does feel less because he's not being able
Speaker 3: to match her in her progress. But it's not a
Speaker 3: reflection of them too as a relationships. It's just money
Speaker 3: and that's just one of a million other things that
Speaker 3: people can provide in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when he says, I guess you can
Speaker 2: cover this one, I think that the mistake here is,
Speaker 2: like you have said on these other questions, Michael, she
Speaker 2: needs to have the conversation with him about have that
Speaker 2: financial conversation because money is it can be a problem
Speaker 2: in relationships, right, So have the conversation with them. I
Speaker 2: know I'm learning a lot more. How do you feel
Speaker 2: about this? Is there a way that we can make
Speaker 2: it more equable that you'll feel better? But not saying
Speaker 2: that I would.
Speaker 3: Go with this. If you're around the house and you
Speaker 3: see laundry and dishes, you say to him, I guess
Speaker 3: you can handle this.
Speaker 1: One, and I make the money.
Speaker 2: You do the laundry right, and you'll put you on
Speaker 2: allowance pal that's right. And if you don't like you know,
Speaker 2: those options head for the freedom trans exactly.
Speaker 1: But they are engaged at their engage, and I think
Speaker 1: they should sit down and she say, Babe, I'm going
Speaker 1: to put X amount of dollars so we can get
Speaker 1: our first house. You don't have to worry about that.
Speaker 1: We're doing this together and I'm making that much more.
Speaker 1: I'm going to put this aside, so it's not that
Speaker 1: hard coming out of your pocket too. Like you, you're
Speaker 1: a team. You're going to get married, so that can
Speaker 1: be worked out. I wouldn't, I.
Speaker 2: Will say, Susan, it's very different. Now I have kids
Speaker 2: your age, Michael, and they they do finances differently than
Speaker 2: we did. You know, they have his account, her account,
Speaker 2: a house account, so there and the reason they do
Speaker 2: that is so when my daughter, who I don't know
Speaker 2: where she came from Amazon, you know, has a straight
Speaker 2: shot to her house at least twice a day. But
Speaker 2: she's using that out of her discretionary income. And so
Speaker 2: there's no discussion about your spending too much money because
Speaker 2: they put in equal amounts to the home, to the
Speaker 2: running of home, to investments. I think that's a smart
Speaker 2: thing to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we have everything just going into one pot.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to pitch that idea to.
Speaker 2: Oh, only it's a problem when I got married, Susan.
Speaker 2: I think you and I have talked about this when
Speaker 2: we got married. Uh, you know, I earned hardly anything
Speaker 2: in those days, but we put all our money together
Speaker 2: and we shared the chores and we shared the I
Speaker 2: did most of the cooking at that time. I'm saying,
Speaker 2: but it was one pot of money. But there were
Speaker 2: times when you know, there was something I wanted that
Speaker 2: if I had had my own quote unquote pot of money,
Speaker 2: I could have said, you know, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2: You don't want to spend the money on it. But
Speaker 2: I've earned this money. This is my play money, my
Speaker 2: spending money, and I think, you know that's that's a
Speaker 2: good solution sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I wouldn't give up hop Smantha. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have a conversation make him feel better.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, I got to find the guy first who
Speaker 2: wants to split the bills, and then that's just a
Speaker 2: d That is just a detail. Anyway, you can submit
Speaker 2: all your questions, burning or otherwise to us by going
Speaker 2: to Bachelor nation dot com slash Golden Hour come back
Speaker 2: see if we answer yours. Maybe we'll have Michael back
Speaker 2: again because he certainly had all the right answers here.
Speaker 1: All right, Michael, we have a good one for you.
Speaker 1: This is our dating edition. So this week we're going
Speaker 1: to play a game where we're going to give Michael
Speaker 1: a sentence about dating and he has to finish it.
Speaker 1: So we're going to just read it off and boom
Speaker 1: whatever comes to mind. Don't overthink it.
Speaker 2: It's like Jeopardyala.
Speaker 1: The biggest green flag is consistency.
Speaker 2: Oh good one. If they text back instantly, I love them.
Speaker 1: I know a relationship is over when.
Speaker 3: We don't laugh anymore.
Speaker 2: Wait, I need to write down his answer. Season. The
Speaker 2: most overrated dating advice is.
Speaker 3: That it's that the more extravagant it is, the better.
Speaker 1: Okay. A first date should always oh geez, you're doing good.
Speaker 3: Just the first date should always be planned by the guy.
Speaker 1: I love you.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, je Je, we love you, Jade, hold
Speaker 2: on to this one, Okay. The quickest way to ruin
Speaker 2: the date.
Speaker 3: Is talk about yourself the whole time.
Speaker 1: Sorry.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: If they still have this in their apartment, I'm out.
Speaker 3: Oh that could be a lot of things I would say. Uh,
Speaker 3: pictures of x'es that's what I.
Speaker 2: Was gonna say. Yeah, love is.
Speaker 3: Unconditional.
Speaker 2: A situationship is just.
Speaker 3: I would I know, I got answered quickly. I would say,
Speaker 3: is just figuring it out.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: The reason the reason why I like some I've seen
Speaker 3: situationships that have developed, and I've also seen them that flopped.
Speaker 3: So I maintained situationships sometimes.
Speaker 1: But okay, the biggest relationship ick.
Speaker 3: Is biggest relationship ick is uh lying.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's not an ick, Susan. I used to play
Speaker 2: a game, what was it? Something ick and oo, and
Speaker 2: then the worst one was like kick them to the curb.
Speaker 2: They're a line line, they're out for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, So so it is something that just is
Speaker 3: like a turnoff. Yes, yes, I really have to say.
Speaker 3: There's a few things I'm really turned off by, like like.
Speaker 1: A dirty house would do it for me?
Speaker 2: Like if you weren't no, no, wait, wait, Susan a
Speaker 2: crumb wait with Susan a crumb on the counter is let's.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes I am. But I can put up with
Speaker 1: some things. But people that don't keep their bathroom like
Speaker 1: that's hygiene to me, that would be a huge I
Speaker 1: don't even think I could come back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I I could see that. I fall into
Speaker 3: this naive space all the time where I think people
Speaker 3: can learn and adapt, but I have I have been
Speaker 3: wrong about that so many.
Speaker 2: All Right, if my best friend dated my ex, I would.
Speaker 3: Oh, not like it.
Speaker 1: I want my ex to date Nancy.
Speaker 2: Nancy. Nancy's from our season on The Golden Bachelor, and
Speaker 2: she has to make a great pair, I really do.
Speaker 3: I think it depends on how far are you removed
Speaker 3: from that expre if you're fresh off the breakup and
Speaker 3: your friend and that's a problem. If you're happy and
Speaker 3: everything's settled, then yeah, good luck.
Speaker 2: Wow. I'm surprised most women will say to you that
Speaker 2: you know their girlfriends could never date the Rex. I'm like,
Speaker 2: cave at it. I'm done with them. Good luck to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly our way with words.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, Michael, I don't know, is there any other
Speaker 2: great last pearl of wisdom that you are any questions
Speaker 2: you have for Susan and May.
Speaker 3: I really enjoy you guys, And I was telling Kathy
Speaker 3: on the last podcast that we did. I love seeing
Speaker 3: the Goldens and I think it's such a good take
Speaker 3: to really show people that have experienced life that really
Speaker 3: come at it from a different mature level, and you
Speaker 3: guys were so entertaining to watch, so the authenticities there,
Speaker 3: the love's there. I got nothing for you.
Speaker 1: Guys, and I have just handle it different. When you're older,
Speaker 1: I think you.
Speaker 3: Know you did. You don't create your own problems.
Speaker 2: All you're real and again you realize you know, life
Speaker 2: is short and the little stuff just doesn't matter, and
Speaker 2: a lot of the big stuff doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Right, touly matters.
Speaker 1: Mostly they admire you, Michael. I can't wait to read
Speaker 1: your book, say one more time where they could get
Speaker 1: it and the title, if you will please.
Speaker 3: The wild Heart grows right here. Just happen to have
Speaker 3: a copy. Get it at the wildheartrows dot com and
Speaker 3: pre sale is officially done and orders will be shipped
Speaker 3: out next week.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I wish i'd ask you to sign mine for me,
Speaker 2: but that's I'll have to meet you in person so
Speaker 2: I can get it done.
Speaker 3: I'll try to find a way to get one to you.
Speaker 2: Oh you are so kind. Well, thank you, Michael, I
Speaker 2: truly mean this. Thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 2: on Bachelor Golden Hour. Where can our listeners follow you?
Speaker 2: But aside from ordering your book, how can they follow you?
Speaker 3: Oh, you can follow me on Instagram. It's Michael Alio
Speaker 3: L four on Instagram, and I'm almost never on TikTok
Speaker 3: or anything, so don't even follow me on that. I
Speaker 3: honestly didn't think i'd even have social media until after
Speaker 3: I got off the show. Likewise, of course, I mean
Speaker 3: it's not Facebook until like my junior year at college.
Speaker 3: So yeah, this whole thing's new to me. Yeah, come
Speaker 3: check out or down whatever you guys want to do.
Speaker 1: And thank you, and make sure to rate us, review us,
Speaker 1: and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Speaker 2: And you can follow us on social media at Bachelor
Speaker 2: Happy Hour and at Bachelor Nation until next week. I
Speaker 2: hope you have a crazy then.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Michael.
Speaker 2: Alright mm hm