WEBVTT - There's Life After ‘Dead’ for Skybound Entertainment 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.400 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.640 which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.880 in media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. The TV 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.479 mega hit The Walking Dead ends its historic run this 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.759 Sunday on a m C. That's far from the last 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.680 you'll hear from this franchise, so says David Albert, the 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.559 CEO of sky Bound Entertainment, the company that created this 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.280 zombie sensation. But there's a lot more to sky Bound, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.320 as I've learned interviewing David last week at the Future 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.600 of TV conference. Stay tuned after the break for this 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:55.040 really interesting conversation, and we're back with sky Bound Entertainment 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.360 CEO David Albert. Well, good to talk to you, David. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.400 I it's interesting to have this conversation at a time 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.560 where the sort of marquee show for sky Bound, a 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:12.679 little little show called The Walking Dead, is ending its run. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.039 Although to say it's ending also feels weird given that 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.640 the franchise, broader than just that show, has such a 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.080 long future ahead of it. So I wanted to start with, like, 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.280 could you possibly have imagined when that show first launched? 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.800 What was this twenty years ago? Twenty seasons ago that 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:38.440 it would be everything that it became. So the comic 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:42.000 launched twenty years ago, we're coming up next year. This 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:47.080 is the eleventh season. Short answers. No, I mean I knew. 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.240 I knew the comic was special. I knew the story 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.480 that we had was special. I knew that there's a 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.560 great opportunity like a white space that nobody had done 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:59.800 serialized horror, and I knew that that was something that 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:01.520 was very much in demand. So I felt like we 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.160 had a great window. But there's no way that I 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.240 could have known that at that time we were going 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:11.880 to go for twelve years, you know, multiple spinoffs, you know, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.239 billions of dollars of merchandise and video games out. No, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:20.119 I had no idea that. So after twelve seasons, what 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:25.959 do you attribute the outsized success of The Walking Dead? What? What? 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.040 What do you think about it resonated so well? Well, 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.200 you know, I always look at sort of the product 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.760 market fit right in general, and I feel like, one 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.000 there was no serio. I sawror, and I feel like 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.520 that's now. It's really hard to imagine that because just 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.040 how much horror is on television. But just thinking back 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.320 to that landscape no one had really done. And you know, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.760 there have been an episode of horror, anthological horror, but 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:51.400 nothing that had come on that had been like, hey, 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.280 we're gonna treat this men seriously and sort of do that. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.679 So I think that was a major aspect of it. 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:01.480 I think separately, you know, Um, I think we got 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.360 lucky and hit the zeitgeist in in a real way. 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.880 I think, you know, people the digital world had really 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:11.520 sort of started to transform people's lives. Um and Chuck 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.880 cost Woman had written a not ed I want to say, 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:17.200 like right after the show came out about like why 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:22.040 he thought zombies were resonating with people, and part of it, 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.800 he said it was attributable to email the notion that 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:26.840 the more that you sort of whacked them down, the 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.519 more they come back at you. And I did think 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.280 there was something existential that we tapped into the notion 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:38.480 that our work lives, we're sort of attacking us and 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.920 getting us at all the different areas and hours that 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.360 used to be safe and awful limits from work. So 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.680 I think there was something there, Um that we sort 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.040 of pepped into. The zepest Wells was sort of right time, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.440 right place, combined was sort of a lucky break. That's 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.400 an interesting theory. I would add to it that And 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.840 I think this also spoke to I Lost was such 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.800 a big hit. I think there's something about a show 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.160 where do you see a society that has to sort 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:10.360 of peel away from modern technology and go back to 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:13.640 this sort of primitive use your hands to to fight 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.599 and survive kind of thing. I mean, do you think 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:20.160 that might be also a theory? Oh yeah, I mean 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.479 I think I think people love those stories, right, Like 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.000 you know, I grew up reading books like Hatchett and 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.800 Mackay and Lord of the Flies. Right, those are sort 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.200 of like, you know, the nature of humanity questions like 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:34.480 what happens when you take away all of our creature 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.039 comforts and you put us there? Right? And I think, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.080 you know, some of us like to think we would 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.279 do well. And I think it's it really poses those 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:47.120 questions like how would you react in those situations? And um, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:48.400 I think it was. You know, I think I think 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.560 we got lucky with with that as well. But yes, 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.400 I think people love seeing the sort of stripping people 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.680 way back to back to everything. And then on top 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.440 of it, I feel like there was we also really 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.000 don't we really st lead into the soap oper angle, 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.640 right and sort of you know, if I pitch you 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.360 this this story as opposed to some of abo zombies, 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.560 where I said, Hey, a guy wakes up from from 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.000 a coma to find that his best friend has taken 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.760 up with his wife, and his wife is pregnant and 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.120 he's not sure if if the baby is his or 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.360 his best friends. Right, that sounds like a daytime soap 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.839 from when I was growing up. Um, but you had 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.120 zombies and that becomes the Walking Day. Yeah. I mean, 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.040 I think there's that formula of sort of the back 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.599 to basics. I think that's worked for everything, going back 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.800 to survivor to I think you look at a show 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.720 like Yellow Jackets on Showtime Today that has a bit 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.159 of that flavor. But I also want to talk about again, 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.159 this is so much more than just a show. It 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.400 is a franchise. You've got other versions on the air, 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.080 You've got so many different executions and other media. So 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.960 can you give us sort of a the full scope 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.080 of when we call it a franchise, everything that's going 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.920 on right now for the Walking Dead, I mean, first 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.840 and foremost, the Walking Dead is a comic it's the 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:10.560 best selling independent black boy indpendent comic of all time. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.680 Um came out in two thousand three. And you know, 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.240 everything really for us stems and starts and end with 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:19.279 the comic book, Right. That's sort of that's our canon, 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.160 that's our more. Anytime we have a question, everybody goes 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.600 back to the comic. Obviously, we have all the shows 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.479 that are own. There's Walking Dead if you're the Walking Dead, 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.000 Towns and the Walking Dead, a number spinoffs, additional shows 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.280 sort of in production now, and of course they're Talking Dead. 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.560 Which I also think was a huge opportunity for us 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.400 to sort of sort of made the show successful was 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:46.120 embracing the notion of a water cooler. Don't just do 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.279 a show that's a water cooler show, make a water 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.120 cooler show about the show that's a water cooler show. Right, 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.400 So it sort of really tapped into that sort of 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.440 meta conversation, which I think was really helpful and make 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.000 it successful. Outside of that, we have in a number 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.640 or video games, right. So we started with the tell 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.800 Tales Walking Dead, which was a narrative driven game, which 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.720 is huge, right, and it's some people's favorite character is 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.840 Ri Grimes from the comic or from the show about 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.040 a lot of people's favor character is Clementine, who originated 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.760 un tell Tales Walking Dead, um, and is you know, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.520 now we're sort of giving an additional life. UM. There's 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.560 a series of you know y a graphic novels that 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.480 we've launched from Tilly Walden that follows Clementine. So that's 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.720 been really exciting to see the title game. I can't 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.760 stress enough how transformative it was, not just for us 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:40.400 as a company, um, but even beyond that sort of 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.480 revitalizing sort of the narrative gaming genre. UM. You know, 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.400 up to that point, I would say the narrative gaming 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.240 was sort of a bit of a backwater UM in 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:53.280 that space. But we really took the television approach. We're like, 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.320 writing is front and center. We're gonna run of writers room, um, 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.840 and it's going to be about decisions and emotions, and 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.520 approached that game with the goal of trying to make 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.360 people cry, right, which was not an obvious play when 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.200 you're looking at a zombie game. And that game went 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:11.880 on to do you know, over a hundred game the 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.760 year awards, done over a billion dollars retail. It's been 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.160 a transformative moment for us to show the power of 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:22.040 storytelling in the interactive format. Um. So from there, we 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.560 now have thirteen games out. Um we have a number 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:27.640 of games in market now or number more games coming. 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:32.199 We've done everything from uh, we did the Walking Red Wine, 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:36.240 we did Waking Dead Coffee, we did Walking Dead cruises, 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.800 we had Samurai Serbs, baby onesies. I mean, you know, 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.559 we pretty much spanned the gamut of pretty much anywhere 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.079 we can tell an interesting and propelling story, we do. 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.160 And you know, going back to that first question, I 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.520 think the approach that you just laid out is also 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.240 part of probably why The Walking Dead has been such 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.400 a stalwart on television for so long, all these different 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.000 other executions of that same I p and that kind 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.280 of probably has sort of a virtuous cycle to it, right, 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.720 the video game sense to the TV show, that TV 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.560 show sends to the video game for sure. Although what 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:13.480 I would say is, I think, you know, there's a 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:17.400 difference between franchises set around a single character, which can 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.920 be hugely successful, and I think it was easier for 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.480 us because we had a world, right, we had a 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.920 world with a set of rules that was more important 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:29.240 than an individual character. Rick Rhimes hugely important, you know, 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.839 key figure for us in Walking Dead, Laura, but Rick 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.000 Rhymes doesn't show up in anything that Commentine does. And 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.240 I think that idea that you can take that concept 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.560 and extended out as long as you treated it with 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.439 the same degree of seriousness, um that we did in 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.040 the main show. That allowed I think the universe sort 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.160 of feel bigger and broader than it would have otherwise. 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.520 So I feel like that was a huge benefit for us. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.280 So when you talk about a world, when you talk 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:01.560 about a franchise, what is the long term planning like? 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.520 Because I will not blink an eye if The Walking 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.040 Dead is on in some shape or form thirty forty 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.360 years from now, and so do you plan that far out? 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.479 I mean, how does that work? It must be horrifically complex. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.560 You know, we have absolute concrete plans for the next 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.560 five years, right, So I have contracts and dates that 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.400 I have laid out on a board that I can 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.559 show you that would literally show you everything that we're 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.160 doing for the next five years of The Walking Dead. 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.600 We then have from years six and ten, we have 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.320 sort of like um goals and some early prep work 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.880 that we're doing. UM. So that's been sort of a 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.240 beneficial thing. And then beyond that, we really just have 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.360 sort of like aspirations, So you know, we have you know, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.760 high level aspirations, but uh and sort of directions we 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.080 want to take it opportunities that we like to do it, 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.680 but our goal, our macro goals, we think that there's 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.920 opportunities to be telling stories in this space for the 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.360 rest of our natural lives and probably for some unattracted 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.640 And I think that's also part of the Walking Dead legacy, 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:10.560 particularly on television, where what has now become the norm 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.160 is if you have a successful show, it must become 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.720 a franchise. You must figure out other iterations. Obviously The 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.840 Walking Dead wasn't the first to do that, but do 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.960 you think it's sort of accelerated that trend. I think 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.719 so absolutely. I mean, I mean, I think a lot 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.760 of this, you know, comes from that, It comes from 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.000 genre and from B movies and from B television, right, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.080 Like that's where we took our roots. Right, you know, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.040 we'll go back and look at Star Trek, right, why 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:39.800 is Star Trek and able to survived for decades and 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.200 decades it had you know, obviously Captain Kirkson amazing character, 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.559 Captain cards amazing character. You know this world we have 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.480 the world of the Federation. You have all these different 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.600 planets and racist species, so there's always something new to 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.679 dig into and explore a different angle. And just like 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.720 you said, I think survival and how you rebuild society 0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:59.640 when all our rules are taken away, I think it's 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.679 something that we all think about, right like um, as 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.240 a parent, I'm sure everybody every parent I know is 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.480 her their kids at some point say that's not their right, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.360 and they'll say, okay, well, why is it not fair that? Well, 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.319 if I was doing it to do like this, and 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:15.640 I remember as a kid, I would say the same 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.760 thing in my parents, that's unfair. Fair I was the parent, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.360 I would do it like this. Everybody wants that opportunity 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.280 to start civilization scratch. Everyone wants to be like, hey, 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.960 here's how I would build the ideal society. And I 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.480 think this gives you like freedom and the license to 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.200 go ahead and do that, which I think is really 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:35.040 really powerful. And you know you guys have certainly gone ahead. 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.320 And what I mean by that is when I think 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:42.280 about the wealth of I p executions across so many media, 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.760 I do wonder as well, whether there is a debate 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.920 or a conversation internally about putting too much out there 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.040 exhausting the i P. Because we've seen some pretty big 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.800 i P. I think of you know, Disney and Star 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.520 Wars as an example of too much too soon, and 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:06.480 you could really uh leave the I P worse for weary. Yeah, 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.000 And so what we try to do, you know, I 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.560 think one of the one of the things that I 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.320 think happens in these spaces is sometimes people tell the 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.840 same story over and over, right, Like I go back 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:20.160 to you know, um, the old the old version of 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:22.319 like you know, you go watch the movie theater that 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:23.960 you play the video game at home. This is this 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.040 in the eighties, and you're basically playing the same character 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.440 doing the same thing. And that sort of notion of 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.800 just doing the same thing and not as high resolution 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.600 or high quality form, I think is the classics sort 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.960 of melting ice cube approach, where you're you are getting 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.560 diminishing in terms. The goal for us is always to 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.560 use whatever aspect of storytelling that we're using to open 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.760 up a new frontier and explore something we wouldn't have otherwise. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.440 So let me give you two examples, right, So one 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.880 I talked about Clementine a lot, right where we say, hey, look, 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.040 this character other than the Lens shows up in that 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:05.360 Telltale game for about thirty seconds. Other than that, there's 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.680 not sorry, there's really a little buddy Um the outside 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.320 of that, there's really no intersection with the rest of 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.600 the Cannon that we're telling about. So it's complete new story, 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:19.480 complete new universe to sort of really explore Um separately. 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.560 Like when we do different games we're trying to use, 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.400 whether it's an RPG, whether at the real time strategy game, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.280 whether it's a training a content trading card game, whatever 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.200 model we're using, we're trying to explore different aspects. So 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.760 I think part of the reason why, for instance, I 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.080 love Star Wars and I grew up loving Stones and 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.200 Star Wars was huge to me. But so many of 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.120 the movies were just retelling the original story over and 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.360 over again, and I was like, it wasn't until the 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.880 Mandalorian where I was like, oh, yes, this is something new, 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:51.880 this is something exciting. That got me excited. I was like, 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.120 baby Yoda, like I've been waiting for something like that forever, 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:57.320 Like now that was powerful again, that was sort of 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.960 really meaningful and impactful to me. And so we try 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:02.800 to do the same thing. I don't think we always succeed, 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.560 but we try to do the same thing. Um in 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.560 our gaming, inside of our books, always try to explore 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:13.360 something new every time that you're you're if you're just 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.120 an arena rock band playing the hits, you've no anger, 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.480 gone to the place where you're vibrant and alive. And 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.000 despite us being the walking day, we have to remain 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.960 vibrant alive if we're going to survive in this media ecosystem. 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.920 And so I want to bring it back to sky 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.800 Bound itself because this this is this approach essentially defines 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.200 your company. You're not just looking for, oh hey, this 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.360 is gonna make a good show. You're looking for And 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.520 I'm using a parlance you taught me many years ago, 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.440 the wheel of awesome approach. Talk about what what on 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:49.360 earth that means and how that's become why that makes 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.840 sense for the sky Bound Sure. Uh So, first of all, 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:55.480 I love the fact that you remember the wheel of 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.480 awesome because it really is the secret sauce for what 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.360 we do. Uh. The one is we we put a 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.440 creator at the center of our business. We think that 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.800 historically Hollywood has been organized around taking creators creations and 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.240 then sort of sit arming them and keep them out 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:15.000 of the process, and we think that that's some mistake. UM. So, 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.760 my business partners Robert Kirkman, he's the creator to Walking Dead, 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.040 Creative Invincible, and so he's at the core of the business. Now, 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.360 he doesn't do all the properties we do, and he's 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.120 involved in everything, but when it's somebody else's property, it's 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.200 that other creator that we put in the center. We're 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.240 using the model that we built around him for the 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.520 Walking Dead Invincible for other creators as well. So we 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:39.600 put them at the center, and then we basically go 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.200 in every medium that their pictures said and being right, 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:49.600 so um comics, film, television, video games, audio, live events, merchandising, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.720 board games, video games, everywhere they want to go, and 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:54.960 we end up trying to take them there. But at 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.400 the same time, for creators like look, I don't see that, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.000 I don't see I don't care what you're telling about, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.080 don't see this ever being a board game, or I 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:06.119 don't see this ever being a comic book, we won't 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.040 do it. We sort of we follow their will because 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.639 we think that we're able to make better decisions if 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.400 we're sort of very much in tune with those those aspects. 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.919 So I'd say historically production companies are oriented around a 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.560 method of distribution. They're making television to be displayed in 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.600 cable or broadcast, and they're making movies to be in 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:30.600 theaters or now extremely right, we're organized around building ike 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.040 and connecting creators with their audience and every area and 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.440 every medium that they want to operate. And I think 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.399 that's the thing that separates us out. When we explain 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.360 that to creators, they always would say it was man, 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.840 that's awesome, or like, yeah, that's the real muscle. But 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.320 how do I'm picturing someone from AMC Networks listening to 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.399 what you just said, and I'm wondering whether they would think, like, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.879 wait a second. You know, we're the network that puts 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.880 the show on the air. Shouldn't we be the ones 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.439 in control and we're giving you notes on what the 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.960 show would could be. So is there any sort of 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.200 tension there in terms of you know, yes, it's nice 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.119 that you know, you want the creator to have a 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.040 direct link to the audience, but on TV it's not 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:20.360 doesn't really work that way. Yeah, I mean, so short answers, Yes, right, 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.600 there's definitely there's definitely tension, and there's tension in every 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.280 creative process, right, there's tension between the writer and the director, 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.879 there's between the directing the actors. I think the tension 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.560 is uh is necessary, um And I think that ultimately though, 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.120 if you look at our execution and market, it's hard 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:41.040 to argue that we've done anything but be additive and 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.760 value value creative to the brand. So UM, if you 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.560 want to speak at it from just a purely high level, UM, 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.760 when we go ahead ahead with third parties, we generally 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.320 come out on top because if we're creating something, I 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.760 have the creator that I'm talking to, they have a 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:01.720 consumer products team that's organ eyes around a decision making 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.840 process with hundreds of different stakeholders, and they will come 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.880 out with a safer and more rounded product. But in 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:13.879 this market that doesn't work. Fans sniffed out like decisions 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.240 by committee and a heartbeat, and they can make they'll 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.960 reject something without without even being able to tell you why. 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:21.760 But when you dig in, it is because of this 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.480 feels safe and sanitize, and it's not that we're so 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.600 aggressive and risk taking, but we're authentic to the brand 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.160 in a way and not in sort of the marketing 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.720 speak of what authentic means. But we're really digging into 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:36.600 sort of like you know what. I remember we were 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.800 making this wine, right, and we were having a problem 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.080 with with the label. And the big thing for us 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.000 is we want to make wine and we're putting wine 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.320 in the market. It couldn't be and Robert challenged us 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.160 that it can't just be a label slot. There has 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.119 to be something authentic to it that how do we 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.360 tell a narrative with the bottle of one? Most narratives 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.960 about wine are, oh, there's terre and that this farmer 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:00.200 has been here for you know, hundreds of years years. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.600 We didn't have any of that. So what we did 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.159 is we made an app where you could hold up 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.680 your phone in front of the bottle, right, and a 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.840 zombie would jump out. You get the second bottle and 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.040 Rick would come out and fight the zombie. Right. So 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.520 there's a whole little mini narrative that we're able to 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.639 imbue into the idea of drinking this wall. But we 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:18.760 were having problems, like we were. We all looked at 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.480 this label and it wasn't working, and we weren't following 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.359 our own advice right. So we were going through we 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.359 had design firms and all these people telling us what 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.119 we should be doing, and it was taking forever. So 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:30.919 I was like, Robert, you just come in and just 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:32.919 look at this and fix it. He's like, you know what, 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.120 you have the legs all along. He's like, just move 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.040 the leg like this, move like that. And instantly as 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.920 we were testing it, the test results went up quantitatively. 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.240 Moving the legs in two seconds made the made the 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.639 sort of the score on the on the label go 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.679 up like twenty points. We were there working with like 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.280 a whole team. So my point is that like that, 0:20:55.280 --> 0:21:00.159 that uh, consensus driven, you know, committee drink of an 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.320 approach will fail when you have somebody who is a 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.040 visionary who actually understands what is key about the inforation 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:09.920 and the creatile will always beat the committee every time. 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.280 We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:26.800 back with more with David Albert, and we're back with 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:32.080 sky Bound Entertainment CEO. David Albert. I certainly don't want 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:34.320 to give the impression that sky Bound is a one 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.159 trick pony, you know, with the Walking Dead, franchise. You 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:42.719 mentioned Invincible, which is a animated show on Amazon, and 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.960 you know, right off the bat, there's what strikes me 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.359