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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in

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Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working

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Speaker 1: in media today. I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. The TV

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Speaker 1: mega hit The Walking Dead ends its historic run this

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Speaker 1: Sunday on a m C. That's far from the last

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Speaker 1: you'll hear from this franchise, so says David Albert, the

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Speaker 1: CEO of sky Bound Entertainment, the company that created this

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Speaker 1: zombie sensation. But there's a lot more to sky Bound,

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Speaker 1: as I've learned interviewing David last week at the Future

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Speaker 1: of TV conference. Stay tuned after the break for this

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Speaker 1: really interesting conversation, and we're back with sky Bound Entertainment

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Speaker 1: CEO David Albert. Well, good to talk to you, David.

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Speaker 1: I it's interesting to have this conversation at a time

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Speaker 1: where the sort of marquee show for sky Bound, a

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Speaker 1: little little show called The Walking Dead, is ending its run.

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Speaker 1: Although to say it's ending also feels weird given that

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Speaker 1: the franchise, broader than just that show, has such a

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Speaker 1: long future ahead of it. So I wanted to start with, like,

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Speaker 1: could you possibly have imagined when that show first launched?

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Speaker 1: What was this twenty years ago? Twenty seasons ago that

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Speaker 1: it would be everything that it became. So the comic

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Speaker 1: launched twenty years ago, we're coming up next year. This

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Speaker 1: is the eleventh season. Short answers. No, I mean I knew.

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Speaker 1: I knew the comic was special. I knew the story

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Speaker 1: that we had was special. I knew that there's a

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Speaker 1: great opportunity like a white space that nobody had done

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Speaker 1: serialized horror, and I knew that that was something that

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Speaker 1: was very much in demand. So I felt like we

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Speaker 1: had a great window. But there's no way that I

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Speaker 1: could have known that at that time we were going

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Speaker 1: to go for twelve years, you know, multiple spinoffs, you know,

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars of merchandise and video games out. No,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that. So after twelve seasons, what

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Speaker 1: do you attribute the outsized success of The Walking Dead? What? What?

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Speaker 1: What do you think about it resonated so well? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I always look at sort of the product

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Speaker 1: market fit right in general, and I feel like, one

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Speaker 1: there was no serio. I sawror, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's now. It's really hard to imagine that because just

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Speaker 1: how much horror is on television. But just thinking back

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Speaker 1: to that landscape no one had really done. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there have been an episode of horror, anthological horror, but

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Speaker 1: nothing that had come on that had been like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna treat this men seriously and sort of do that.

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Speaker 1: So I think that was a major aspect of it.

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Speaker 1: I think separately, you know, Um, I think we got

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Speaker 1: lucky and hit the zeitgeist in in a real way.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, people the digital world had really

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Speaker 1: sort of started to transform people's lives. Um and Chuck

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Speaker 1: cost Woman had written a not ed I want to say,

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Speaker 1: like right after the show came out about like why

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Speaker 1: he thought zombies were resonating with people, and part of it,

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Speaker 1: he said it was attributable to email the notion that

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Speaker 1: the more that you sort of whacked them down, the

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Speaker 1: more they come back at you. And I did think

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Speaker 1: there was something existential that we tapped into the notion

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Speaker 1: that our work lives, we're sort of attacking us and

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Speaker 1: getting us at all the different areas and hours that

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Speaker 1: used to be safe and awful limits from work. So

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Speaker 1: I think there was something there, Um that we sort

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Speaker 1: of pepped into. The zepest Wells was sort of right time,

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Speaker 1: right place, combined was sort of a lucky break. That's

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Speaker 1: an interesting theory. I would add to it that And

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Speaker 1: I think this also spoke to I Lost was such

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Speaker 1: a big hit. I think there's something about a show

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Speaker 1: where do you see a society that has to sort

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Speaker 1: of peel away from modern technology and go back to

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Speaker 1: this sort of primitive use your hands to to fight

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Speaker 1: and survive kind of thing. I mean, do you think

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Speaker 1: that might be also a theory? Oh yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I think I think people love those stories, right, Like

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Speaker 1: you know, I grew up reading books like Hatchett and

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Speaker 1: Mackay and Lord of the Flies. Right, those are sort

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Speaker 1: of like, you know, the nature of humanity questions like

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Speaker 1: what happens when you take away all of our creature

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Speaker 1: comforts and you put us there? Right? And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, some of us like to think we would

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Speaker 1: do well. And I think it's it really poses those

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Speaker 1: questions like how would you react in those situations? And um,

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Speaker 1: I think it was. You know, I think I think

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Speaker 1: we got lucky with with that as well. But yes,

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Speaker 1: I think people love seeing the sort of stripping people

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Speaker 1: way back to back to everything. And then on top

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Speaker 1: of it, I feel like there was we also really

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Speaker 1: don't we really st lead into the soap oper angle,

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Speaker 1: right and sort of you know, if I pitch you

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Speaker 1: this this story as opposed to some of abo zombies,

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Speaker 1: where I said, Hey, a guy wakes up from from

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Speaker 1: a coma to find that his best friend has taken

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Speaker 1: up with his wife, and his wife is pregnant and

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Speaker 1: he's not sure if if the baby is his or

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Speaker 1: his best friends. Right, that sounds like a daytime soap

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Speaker 1: from when I was growing up. Um, but you had

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Speaker 1: zombies and that becomes the Walking Day. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think there's that formula of sort of the back

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Speaker 1: to basics. I think that's worked for everything, going back

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Speaker 1: to survivor to I think you look at a show

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Speaker 1: like Yellow Jackets on Showtime Today that has a bit

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Speaker 1: of that flavor. But I also want to talk about again,

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Speaker 1: this is so much more than just a show. It

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Speaker 1: is a franchise. You've got other versions on the air,

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Speaker 1: You've got so many different executions and other media. So

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Speaker 1: can you give us sort of a the full scope

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Speaker 1: of when we call it a franchise, everything that's going

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Speaker 1: on right now for the Walking Dead, I mean, first

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Speaker 1: and foremost, the Walking Dead is a comic it's the

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Speaker 1: best selling independent black boy indpendent comic of all time.

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Speaker 1: Um came out in two thousand three. And you know,

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Speaker 1: everything really for us stems and starts and end with

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Speaker 1: the comic book, Right. That's sort of that's our canon,

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Speaker 1: that's our more. Anytime we have a question, everybody goes

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Speaker 1: back to the comic. Obviously, we have all the shows

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Speaker 1: that are own. There's Walking Dead if you're the Walking Dead,

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Speaker 1: Towns and the Walking Dead, a number spinoffs, additional shows

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Speaker 1: sort of in production now, and of course they're Talking Dead.

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Speaker 1: Which I also think was a huge opportunity for us

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Speaker 1: to sort of sort of made the show successful was

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Speaker 1: embracing the notion of a water cooler. Don't just do

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Speaker 1: a show that's a water cooler show, make a water

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Speaker 1: cooler show about the show that's a water cooler show. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it sort of really tapped into that sort of

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Speaker 1: meta conversation, which I think was really helpful and make

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Speaker 1: it successful. Outside of that, we have in a number

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Speaker 1: or video games, right. So we started with the tell

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Speaker 1: Tales Walking Dead, which was a narrative driven game, which

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Speaker 1: is huge, right, and it's some people's favorite character is

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Speaker 1: Ri Grimes from the comic or from the show about

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Speaker 1: a lot of people's favor character is Clementine, who originated

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Speaker 1: un tell Tales Walking Dead, um, and is you know,

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Speaker 1: now we're sort of giving an additional life. UM. There's

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Speaker 1: a series of you know y a graphic novels that

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Speaker 1: we've launched from Tilly Walden that follows Clementine. So that's

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Speaker 1: been really exciting to see the title game. I can't

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Speaker 1: stress enough how transformative it was, not just for us

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Speaker 1: as a company, um, but even beyond that sort of

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Speaker 1: revitalizing sort of the narrative gaming genre. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: up to that point, I would say the narrative gaming

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Speaker 1: was sort of a bit of a backwater UM in

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Speaker 1: that space. But we really took the television approach. We're like,

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Speaker 1: writing is front and center. We're gonna run of writers room, um,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to be about decisions and emotions, and

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Speaker 1: approached that game with the goal of trying to make

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Speaker 1: people cry, right, which was not an obvious play when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at a zombie game. And that game went

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Speaker 1: on to do you know, over a hundred game the

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Speaker 1: year awards, done over a billion dollars retail. It's been

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Speaker 1: a transformative moment for us to show the power of

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Speaker 1: storytelling in the interactive format. Um. So from there, we

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Speaker 1: now have thirteen games out. Um we have a number

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Speaker 1: of games in market now or number more games coming.

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Speaker 1: We've done everything from uh, we did the Walking Red Wine,

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Speaker 1: we did Waking Dead Coffee, we did Walking Dead cruises,

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Speaker 1: we had Samurai Serbs, baby onesies. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we pretty much spanned the gamut of pretty much anywhere

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Speaker 1: we can tell an interesting and propelling story, we do.

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Speaker 1: And you know, going back to that first question, I

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Speaker 1: think the approach that you just laid out is also

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Speaker 1: part of probably why The Walking Dead has been such

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Speaker 1: a stalwart on television for so long, all these different

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Speaker 1: other executions of that same I p and that kind

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Speaker 1: of probably has sort of a virtuous cycle to it, right,

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Speaker 1: the video game sense to the TV show, that TV

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Speaker 1: show sends to the video game for sure. Although what

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Speaker 1: I would say is, I think, you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: difference between franchises set around a single character, which can

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Speaker 1: be hugely successful, and I think it was easier for

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Speaker 1: us because we had a world, right, we had a

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Speaker 1: world with a set of rules that was more important

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Speaker 1: than an individual character. Rick Rhimes hugely important, you know,

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Speaker 1: key figure for us in Walking Dead, Laura, but Rick

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Speaker 1: Rhymes doesn't show up in anything that Commentine does. And

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Speaker 1: I think that idea that you can take that concept

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Speaker 1: and extended out as long as you treated it with

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Speaker 1: the same degree of seriousness, um that we did in

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Speaker 1: the main show. That allowed I think the universe sort

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Speaker 1: of feel bigger and broader than it would have otherwise.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like that was a huge benefit for us.

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Speaker 1: So when you talk about a world, when you talk

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Speaker 1: about a franchise, what is the long term planning like?

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Speaker 1: Because I will not blink an eye if The Walking

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Speaker 1: Dead is on in some shape or form thirty forty

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Speaker 1: years from now, and so do you plan that far out?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how does that work? It must be horrifically complex.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have absolute concrete plans for the next

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Speaker 1: five years, right, So I have contracts and dates that

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Speaker 1: I have laid out on a board that I can

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Speaker 1: show you that would literally show you everything that we're

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Speaker 1: doing for the next five years of The Walking Dead.

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Speaker 1: We then have from years six and ten, we have

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Speaker 1: sort of like um goals and some early prep work

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Speaker 1: that we're doing. UM. So that's been sort of a

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Speaker 1: beneficial thing. And then beyond that, we really just have

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Speaker 1: sort of like aspirations, So you know, we have you know,

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Speaker 1: high level aspirations, but uh and sort of directions we

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Speaker 1: want to take it opportunities that we like to do it,

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Speaker 1: but our goal, our macro goals, we think that there's

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Speaker 1: opportunities to be telling stories in this space for the

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Speaker 1: rest of our natural lives and probably for some unattracted

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Speaker 1: And I think that's also part of the Walking Dead legacy,

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Speaker 1: particularly on television, where what has now become the norm

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Speaker 1: is if you have a successful show, it must become

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Speaker 1: a franchise. You must figure out other iterations. Obviously The

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Speaker 1: Walking Dead wasn't the first to do that, but do

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Speaker 1: you think it's sort of accelerated that trend. I think

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Speaker 1: so absolutely. I mean, I mean, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of this, you know, comes from that, It comes from

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Speaker 1: genre and from B movies and from B television, right,

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Speaker 1: Like that's where we took our roots. Right, you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll go back and look at Star Trek, right, why

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Speaker 1: is Star Trek and able to survived for decades and

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Speaker 1: decades it had you know, obviously Captain Kirkson amazing character,

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Speaker 1: Captain cards amazing character. You know this world we have

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Speaker 1: the world of the Federation. You have all these different

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Speaker 1: planets and racist species, so there's always something new to

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Speaker 1: dig into and explore a different angle. And just like

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Speaker 1: you said, I think survival and how you rebuild society

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Speaker 1: when all our rules are taken away, I think it's

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Speaker 1: something that we all think about, right like um, as

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Speaker 1: a parent, I'm sure everybody every parent I know is

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Speaker 1: her their kids at some point say that's not their right,

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Speaker 1: and they'll say, okay, well, why is it not fair that? Well,

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Speaker 1: if I was doing it to do like this, and

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Speaker 1: I remember as a kid, I would say the same

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Speaker 1: thing in my parents, that's unfair. Fair I was the parent,

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Speaker 1: I would do it like this. Everybody wants that opportunity

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Speaker 1: to start civilization scratch. Everyone wants to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: here's how I would build the ideal society. And I

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Speaker 1: think this gives you like freedom and the license to

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Speaker 1: go ahead and do that, which I think is really

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Speaker 1: really powerful. And you know you guys have certainly gone ahead.

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Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is when I think

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Speaker 1: about the wealth of I p executions across so many media,

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Speaker 1: I do wonder as well, whether there is a debate

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Speaker 1: or a conversation internally about putting too much out there

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Speaker 1: exhausting the i P. Because we've seen some pretty big

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Speaker 1: i P. I think of you know, Disney and Star

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Speaker 1: you could really uh leave the I P worse for weary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so what we try to do, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think one of the one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: think happens in these spaces is sometimes people tell the

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Speaker 1: same story over and over, right, Like I go back

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Speaker 1: to you know, um, the old the old version of

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Speaker 1: like you know, you go watch the movie theater that

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Speaker 1: you play the video game at home. This is this

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, and you're basically playing the same character

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Speaker 1: doing the same thing. And that sort of notion of

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Speaker 1: just doing the same thing and not as high resolution

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Speaker 1: or high quality form, I think is the classics sort

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Speaker 1: of melting ice cube approach, where you're you are getting

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Speaker 1: diminishing in terms. The goal for us is always to

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Speaker 1: use whatever aspect of storytelling that we're using to open

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Speaker 1: up a new frontier and explore something we wouldn't have otherwise.

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Speaker 1: So let me give you two examples, right, So one

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Speaker 1: I talked about Clementine a lot, right where we say, hey, look,

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Speaker 1: this character other than the Lens shows up in that

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Speaker 1: Telltale game for about thirty seconds. Other than that, there's

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Speaker 1: not sorry, there's really a little buddy Um the outside

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Speaker 1: of that, there's really no intersection with the rest of

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Speaker 1: the Cannon that we're telling about. So it's complete new story,

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Speaker 1: complete new universe to sort of really explore Um separately.

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Speaker 1: Like when we do different games we're trying to use,

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Speaker 1: whether it's an RPG, whether at the real time strategy game,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a training a content trading card game, whatever

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Speaker 1: model we're using, we're trying to explore different aspects. So

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Speaker 1: I think part of the reason why, for instance, I

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Speaker 1: love Star Wars and I grew up loving Stones and

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Speaker 1: Star Wars was huge to me. But so many of

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Speaker 1: the movies were just retelling the original story over and

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Speaker 1: over again, and I was like, it wasn't until the

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Speaker 1: Mandalorian where I was like, oh, yes, this is something new,

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Speaker 1: this is something exciting. That got me excited. I was like,

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Speaker 1: baby Yoda, like I've been waiting for something like that forever,

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Speaker 1: Like now that was powerful again, that was sort of

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Speaker 1: really meaningful and impactful to me. And so we try

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Speaker 1: to do the same thing. I don't think we always succeed,

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Speaker 1: but we try to do the same thing. Um in

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Speaker 1: our gaming, inside of our books, always try to explore

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Speaker 1: something new every time that you're you're if you're just

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Speaker 1: an arena rock band playing the hits, you've no anger,

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Speaker 1: gone to the place where you're vibrant and alive. And

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Speaker 1: despite us being the walking day, we have to remain

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Speaker 1: vibrant alive if we're going to survive in this media ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: And so I want to bring it back to sky

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Speaker 1: Bound itself because this this is this approach essentially defines

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Speaker 1: your company. You're not just looking for, oh hey, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna make a good show. You're looking for And

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Speaker 1: I'm using a parlance you taught me many years ago,

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Speaker 1: the wheel of awesome approach. Talk about what what on

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Speaker 1: earth that means and how that's become why that makes

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Speaker 1: sense for the sky Bound Sure. Uh So, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that you remember the wheel of

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Speaker 1: awesome because it really is the secret sauce for what

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Speaker 1: we do. Uh. The one is we we put a

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Speaker 1: creator at the center of our business. We think that

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Speaker 1: historically Hollywood has been organized around taking creators creations and

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Speaker 1: then sort of sit arming them and keep them out

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Speaker 1: of the process, and we think that that's some mistake. UM. So,

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Speaker 1: my business partners Robert Kirkman, he's the creator to Walking Dead,

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Speaker 1: Creative Invincible, and so he's at the core of the business. Now,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't do all the properties we do, and he's

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Speaker 1: involved in everything, but when it's somebody else's property, it's

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Speaker 1: that other creator that we put in the center. We're

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Speaker 1: using the model that we built around him for the

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Speaker 1: Walking Dead Invincible for other creators as well. So we

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Speaker 1: put them at the center, and then we basically go

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Speaker 1: in every medium that their pictures said and being right,

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Speaker 1: so um comics, film, television, video games, audio, live events, merchandising,

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Speaker 1: board games, video games, everywhere they want to go, and

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Speaker 1: we end up trying to take them there. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, for creators like look, I don't see that,

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Speaker 1: I don't see I don't care what you're telling about,

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Speaker 1: don't see this ever being a board game, or I

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Speaker 1: don't see this ever being a comic book, we won't

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Speaker 1: do it. We sort of we follow their will because

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Speaker 1: we think that we're able to make better decisions if

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Speaker 1: we're sort of very much in tune with those those aspects.

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Speaker 1: So I'd say historically production companies are oriented around a

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Speaker 1: method of distribution. They're making television to be displayed in

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Speaker 1: cable or broadcast, and they're making movies to be in

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Speaker 1: theaters or now extremely right, we're organized around building ike

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Speaker 1: and connecting creators with their audience and every area and

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Speaker 1: every medium that they want to operate. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's the thing that separates us out. When we explain

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Speaker 1: that to creators, they always would say it was man,

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Speaker 1: that's awesome, or like, yeah, that's the real muscle. But

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Speaker 1: how do I'm picturing someone from AMC Networks listening to

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Speaker 1: what you just said, and I'm wondering whether they would think, like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second. You know, we're the network that puts

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Speaker 1: the show on the air. Shouldn't we be the ones

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Speaker 1: in control and we're giving you notes on what the

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Speaker 1: show would could be. So is there any sort of

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Speaker 1: tension there in terms of you know, yes, it's nice

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Speaker 1: that you know, you want the creator to have a

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Speaker 1: direct link to the audience, but on TV it's not

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Speaker 1: doesn't really work that way. Yeah, I mean, so short answers, Yes, right,

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Speaker 1: there's definitely there's definitely tension, and there's tension in every

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Speaker 1: creative process, right, there's tension between the writer and the director,

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Speaker 1: there's between the directing the actors. I think the tension

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Speaker 1: is uh is necessary, um And I think that ultimately though,

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Speaker 1: if you look at our execution and market, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to argue that we've done anything but be additive and

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Speaker 1: value value creative to the brand. So UM, if you

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Speaker 1: want to speak at it from just a purely high level, UM,

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Speaker 1: when we go ahead ahead with third parties, we generally

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Speaker 1: come out on top because if we're creating something, I

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Speaker 1: have the creator that I'm talking to, they have a

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Speaker 1: consumer products team that's organ eyes around a decision making

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Speaker 1: process with hundreds of different stakeholders, and they will come

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Speaker 1: out with a safer and more rounded product. But in

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Speaker 1: this market that doesn't work. Fans sniffed out like decisions

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Speaker 1: by committee and a heartbeat, and they can make they'll

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Speaker 1: reject something without without even being able to tell you why.

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Speaker 1: But when you dig in, it is because of this

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Speaker 1: feels safe and sanitize, and it's not that we're so

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Speaker 1: aggressive and risk taking, but we're authentic to the brand

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Speaker 1: in a way and not in sort of the marketing

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Speaker 1: speak of what authentic means. But we're really digging into

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Speaker 1: sort of like you know what. I remember we were

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Speaker 1: making this wine, right, and we were having a problem

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Speaker 1: with with the label. And the big thing for us

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Speaker 1: is we want to make wine and we're putting wine

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Speaker 1: in the market. It couldn't be and Robert challenged us

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Speaker 1: that it can't just be a label slot. There has

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Speaker 1: to be something authentic to it that how do we

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Speaker 1: tell a narrative with the bottle of one? Most narratives

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Speaker 1: about wine are, oh, there's terre and that this farmer

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Speaker 1: has been here for you know, hundreds of years years.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have any of that. So what we did

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Speaker 1: is we made an app where you could hold up

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Speaker 1: your phone in front of the bottle, right, and a

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Speaker 1: zombie would jump out. You get the second bottle and

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Speaker 1: Rick would come out and fight the zombie. Right. So

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Speaker 1: there's a whole little mini narrative that we're able to

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Speaker 1: imbue into the idea of drinking this wall. But we

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Speaker 1: were having problems, like we were. We all looked at

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Speaker 1: this label and it wasn't working, and we weren't following

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Speaker 1: our own advice right. So we were going through we

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Speaker 1: had design firms and all these people telling us what

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Speaker 1: we should be doing, and it was taking forever. So

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Speaker 1: I was like, Robert, you just come in and just

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Speaker 1: look at this and fix it. He's like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: you have the legs all along. He's like, just move

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Speaker 1: the leg like this, move like that. And instantly as

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Speaker 1: we were testing it, the test results went up quantitatively.

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Speaker 1: Moving the legs in two seconds made the made the

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Speaker 1: sort of the score on the on the label go

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Speaker 1: up like twenty points. We were there working with like

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Speaker 1: a whole team. So my point is that like that,

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Speaker 1: that uh, consensus driven, you know, committee drink of an

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Speaker 1: approach will fail when you have somebody who is a

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Speaker 1: visionary who actually understands what is key about the inforation

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Speaker 1: and the creatile will always beat the committee every time.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

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Speaker 1: back with more with David Albert, and we're back with

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Speaker 1: sky Bound Entertainment CEO. David Albert. I certainly don't want

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Speaker 1: to give the impression that sky Bound is a one

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Speaker 1: trick pony, you know, with the Walking Dead, franchise. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned Invincible, which is a animated show on Amazon, and

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Speaker 1: you know, right off the bat, there's what strikes me

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Speaker 1: as this contrast between The Walking Dead really launched in

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Speaker 1: a different age of television than Invincible did, which is

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Speaker 1: obviously smack in the middle of the streaming age. Is

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Speaker 1: there a difference in terms of launching shows selling shows

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Speaker 1: in this newer environment. Absolutely, I mean I think that

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Speaker 1: in general, the media landscape is much more cluttered, right,

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Speaker 1: there's way more options, um when we launched. When we launched,

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Speaker 1: you know, Walking Dead, I don't even think Amazon was

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Speaker 1: doing uh, you know, Netflix was just getting into the

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Speaker 1: originals business, right, Like, it was completely different landscape. Streaming

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Speaker 1: was just the thing that was people coming on. You know,

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Speaker 1: you talked to young TV exact today. They don't know

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Speaker 1: what Basic Cable is, right. They remember as a thing

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Speaker 1: they grew up with, but they don't think of it

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Speaker 1: as a vibrant place, whereas Walking Dead cut his teeth

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Speaker 1: in the Basic Cable. Um, So now we have to

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Speaker 1: think a little bit different. And also there's been so

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Speaker 1: much more explored, right, Like you've had the rise of

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Speaker 1: farm language ships like squid Game and Narcoes and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know all these different shows from all over the

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Speaker 1: world favoda um that sort of have taken up market

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Speaker 1: share and the realm of the possible is has been expanded,

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Speaker 1: but the challenge for us was still trying to find

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Speaker 1: that space. So um we looked for. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that Bet Invincible that was interesting was nobody was

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Speaker 1: doing hour long R rated animation. Right. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of comedy that's being done, tom of comedy, there's kids

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00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: action that was being done, but there's nobody that's making

429
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: our long sort of adult themed to the animation. And

430
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: we felt like that was a real window for us

431
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: to sort of go in and attack. I mean, what

432
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: you're talking about is sort of one of the classic

433
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: things you learn about great television, which is that often

434
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: it's when you zagged to everyone else's zig that you

435
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: get something that resonates. But I think the flip side

436
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: of that is, is it hard to sell an Amazon

437
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 1: or an AMC on something that you know from that

438
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: network approach, it's always about clone whatever works, clone whatever works,

439
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: and that's not what you're doing. So what's the secret

440
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: to selling streamers or networks on something that is not

441
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: a clone? I mean, I don't know that it's we

442
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: have a specific secret, right, I think a lot of

443
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: it it's about trying to create a specific argument. One

444
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: of the things that we had with with both Wanged

445
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: and Invincibles, we have these hugely successful comics that sort

446
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: of pointed to, uh, these fan bases, right, so we say, hey,

447
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: look we have we have some data. Right, these things

448
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: have been around for at this point going on twenty years,

449
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: so there's there is an embedded fan base. We had

450
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 1: done different activations previously that had all gone very very well,

451
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: and then you know, we were able to find some

452
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: key influencers in the space on all these different areas

453
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: that sort of vet out the success. So for instance,

454
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: you know, we had Steven Youan and Sandra O and

455
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: Hersha Ali and Seth Rogan come on as voices early

456
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: on in a way that people are like, oh, like,

457
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: I didn't think a cartoon was going to be able

458
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: to get that type of talent onto a show like that.

459
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 1: So it was validating from that perspective, And honestly, we've

460
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: come at it from we've always been cheaper relative to

461
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: the other entrance in space, right, So um, you know,

462
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: you look at what Amazon is doing with Lord of

463
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: the Rings. I mean, you know, I would say we

464
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: have multiple seasons that will cost less than one episode

465
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 1: of that show, and the show is the show. That

466
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: show is great. We're trying to do something different. Um.

467
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: So part of it's also like, hey, look we're a

468
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: lower cost experiment, but we can still reach a mass audience. Um.

469
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: And we will point to different things. But it's also

470
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: then we'll get like, you know, you know, getting Frank

471
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: Darbon to come on to direct the Pile of the

472
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: Walking Dead was validating, Uh, you know, to get someone

473
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: of that caliber on the same way to get our

474
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: talent on this show was So that was part of

475
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: the ways in which we go about trying to you know,

476
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: sort of discount some of that risk of it. So

477
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: when you say you approach the network or the streamer

478
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: with data on the audience, what are we talking about,

479
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: like what was how did you sell Amazon Invincible? What

480
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: data did you bring to bear? So we're able to

481
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 1: bring in because we're coming from these other media, right

482
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: we're able to say, look, here's the number of comics

483
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: we've sold right here, the number of live engagement we

484
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: had done we had partnered years back with MTV and

485
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: done this sort of like this motion comic of Invincible

486
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: that ran on MTV that had giant um giant billboards

487
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: and Times Square that I got millions and millions of downloads. Right,

488
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: We had done collectibles and actually figure so I was

489
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: able to get the sales data, readership data, um an

490
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: exploitation data that was able to make them think, okay, like,

491
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: hey there is something here. It's not like we're coming

492
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: up with a completely original idea that no one's ever

493
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: heard of. So it was a discounted and by the way,

494
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: I love complete originals right like you know, I love

495
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 1: what Christopher Nolan does. Um, but getting some of those

496
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: things moving in a new space and TV sometimes to

497
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: be really hard. I want to turn to the financing

498
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: side of sky Band. You guys went through a second round,

499
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: I believe in May. Uh what is your approach there

500
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: in terms of funding? What are you looking to do

501
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 1: with that funding? Yeah? So, I mean part of it is,

502
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're one. We're moving into different areas

503
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: of production, right, so for years we started as a

504
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: common company that also did television. We've getting into films.

505
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: So we have our first big studio movies coming out

506
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: next year called rent Field with the Cage, uh nic

507
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: holeton Acrofina. We have a whole big audio department are

508
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 1: One of our biggest hits is called Impact Winter, which

509
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: was a top right original for Audible that we have

510
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: a second season coming out in a third season production

511
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: as well, so we're building out our audio capabilities. Video

512
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: games has been a huge growth area for us, so

513
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: we're we're buying initial capacity, uh, increasing our ability to

514
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: sort of speak to record to fans. So we for

515
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: years we've been licensing games, we've built up publishing capacity.

516
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: So for instance, Telltel the game I mentioned earlier, Uh,

517
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: they went out of that company went out of business

518
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: and us on bankruptcy. We swooped in and picked up

519
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: those rights, finished the game, and we're now the publisher

520
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: of Record, but we also now publish other games as well.

521
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: We had a great game come out called Beform in

522
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: Your Eyes. Um. Those are really sort of a moving,

523
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: an emotional game that want to bath to, so we're

524
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: doing more of that. We also now have bought some

525
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: development capacity so we're able to sort of do the

526
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: full stack in the game space. We do tabletop stuff,

527
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 1: so it really has been for us about really expanding

528
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: the reach and filling in the wheel of awesome so

529
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: that we can better service our creators directly. The other

530
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: piece to it is we're really building up that audience

531
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: opponent where we can make things directly for the audience.

532
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: Of the audience is telling us that they want so

533
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: we can really be in direct dialogue and communication with

534
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: the audience. That is a real focus for us. It's

535
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 1: been a bed rock principle since the founding of the company.

536
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: We've been trying to figure out how do we get there,

537
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: um as aggressively as possible. What do you mean by

538
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: their the audience funding the content partnership with the audience, right, so,

539
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: whether it's whether it's funding so like we have a huge,

540
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: hugely successful Kickstarter business where we've watched table talk games

541
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: and books and comics and all sorts of different merchandise items, um,

542
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: so it could be more like that, or it could

543
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: just be like greater communication between us and the audience

544
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: to say, hey, you love this comic, what is it

545
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: you want to see being done with it? And then

546
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: figuring out then how we can use that information to

547
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: sort of make more inform pitch. When you go into

548
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: places like streamers and say, hey, look, not only are

549
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: we coming with this information the or this I P

550
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: but we're coming to this information about this audience space

551
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: will come, will come to the table to do this.

552
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: And then so thinking about ways in which we can

553
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: sort of increase that frequency communication. That doesn't feel uh

554
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: spam me, that feels much more sort of like they're

555
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: participating in this sort of you know, the creation of

556
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: this process. When I hear you talk about this, it

557
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: reminds me a bit of some experimentation we're seeing in

558
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: the TV industry right now. I think about Fox, for instance,

559
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: where through web three and n f t s they're

560
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: kind of selling this notion of hey, you the audience

561
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: can own a portion of this show, finance this show.

562
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: Are you starting to think along those lines? I mean,

563
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, I've I've heard a lot of those things,

564
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: and I think that the current thinking there is probably

565
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: just early. I think that there's more meaningful participations in

566
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: ways to go right Like, um, you know, I've seen

567
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: this where if you box something on Kickstar or you're

568
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: much more likely I want to actually finished reading or

569
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: playing or consuming the thing that you get. You're also

570
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: much more likely to sort of go out there and

571
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 1: talk about it to your friends and sort of proselytize

572
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: on behalf of you. And that's the best type of marketing. Right.

573
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: So people talk a lot about micro influencers or um

574
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: micro proselytizers, and I think, okay, yeah, that's a viable

575
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: approach of strategy. But like for me, so if one

576
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: of my friends who I whose taste like, if they

577
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: tell me to read something watched up there or listen

578
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: to something, I'm much more likely to do it. But

579
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: how do you get those people activated interested? And how

580
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: do you get there? How do you get their opinions early? Right,

581
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: So we have enough these big I p that people

582
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: are coming into our ecosystems. I'd like to find out

583
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: for them what are they looking for in next and

584
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: being that that dialogue so they feel invested in from zero,

585
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: So invest when we can just be It could be

586
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: time spent, it could be conversations, it could be financial.

587
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: We're open to any any and all of those iterations.

588
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's a silver bullet to solve

589
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: for there. Well, you know you mentioned kickstarter. Is there

590
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: other ways to approach like a crowd equity raise, for

591
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: the company overall or for a particular project. Yeah, I mean,

592
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: we're we're actually looking to do to do something that

593
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: we've we've filed um with the sec UH to sort

594
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: of do a sort of crowd equity ways and so

595
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: we're in that process now. We're waiting for approval to

596
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: go live. We partner with the company called Republic or

597
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: we having sort of a m an opportunity to sort

598
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: of bring more people into the company so they can

599
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: feel like partners. But that's not gonna be the only

600
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: way in which we let people participate. Of course, it's

601
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: a hugely meaningful one, but there's obviously, you know, there's

602
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are giant fans that don't

603
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: have the financial resources to invest, and we want to

604
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: make sure that we're servicing all our fans in whatever

605
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: way that they wanted the service. That's really interesting, I

606
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: mean is that gonna is that kind of crad equity

607
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: Ray is going to be focused on a particular piece

608
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: of I P or just the company in general, the

609
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: company in general. You know, we went through those uh,

610
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: we went through our A and B rounds where we

611
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: did sort of you know, more traditional venture and strategic

612
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: investment um. But for us, the goal is to partner

613
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: with our fans on the I P. So we want

614
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: to say, hey, look like, let's partner with our fans, like,

615
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: let's actually do that so they can have a meaningful

616
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: voice in the direction of the company's going on. Does

617
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: that presume, because frankly, I didn't think of sky Bound

618
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: as a brand something that audience knows. But if you're

619
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: taking this approach, obviously I'm wrong. Well, you know there's

620
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: a debate, right whether we're a branded house or house

621
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: of brands, right, I think that's an ongoing struggle or

622
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: ongoing conversation. And you know, for us, I think we're

623
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: both right. I think you know, obviously where the house

624
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: that brought you Walking Toad, where the house that brought

625
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: you Invincible and Impact Winter. But I think that you know,

626
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: we're not necessarily creating the m c U here, but

627
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: we do think how there's thematic through lines that makes

628
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: sense that you're like, oh, I like what they're doing.

629
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: And we've heard from a lot of our fans if

630
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: you like walking to any like invincibly like Inpact Winter,

631
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of connectivity amongst those those fan bases.

632
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: A lot of overlap. So people, I think, more so recently,

633
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: are starting to see that, and ultimately I think, you know,

634
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: I think, and if you look at it right, um,

635
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't know that people have watched Walking Dead on

636
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: TV think of themselves as AMC fence right. And certainly

637
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: when we launched in the era of Madmen and Breaking Bad,

638
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm not sure there was a ton of synergy between

639
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: all three of those shows, although there certainly were plenty

640
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: of people who did watch it, but I don't think

641
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: one was driving the viewership of the other. And I

642
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: think that people who come to the sky Bound and

643
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: see what we're doing tend to stay inside of our ecosystem,

644
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: and so we're trying to sort of build out that

645
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: audience in a much more connected way. When I think

646
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: about sources of capital for the company, I also think

647
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: about the fact that in the past few years, it's

648
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: like every production company in Hollywood is getting their tires

649
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: kicked by investors of some kind. I think the fact

650
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: that O T. T has expanded the demand for content

651
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: has made you know, everything from Hello Sunshine to Lebron

652
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: James spring Hill Company available either for the taking or

653
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: for a big investment surely you're getting approached because you

654
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: guys would would fit right into that model. So is

655
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: that something you're thinking about. You know, Yes, we've been

656
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: approached for We've been approached multiple times a year for

657
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: the last eight to ten years. Right, So i'd be

658
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: a lie I said, we haven't been approached. It's not

659
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: a perfortive outcome. Um, there's certain of those buyers out

660
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 1: there that I think really get the space, and there's

661
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: a lot of them out there that are just uh

662
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: financial folks that don't necessarily understand what we're trying to build.

663
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: We would much rather partner with our fans, um and

664
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: sort of be in a dialogue where the creative is

665
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: really driving the conversation much more so than sort of

666
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: being completely uh bottom line oriented. I see what's happening,

667
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: you know at one of Brose Discovery when you have

668
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: you're you're completely hold into a P and L and

669
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: balance sheet that's you know, making it really difficult to

670
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: sort of run you know, one of the great creative

671
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: companies there's ever been, you know, with HBO, and I

672
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: look at sort of some of those decisions that are

673
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: going on there and it's really really tough, and I

674
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: feel like that's you can be overly financially engineered, and

675
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: I worry about those potential outcomes. So that's why for us,

676
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: if we can actually partner with our consumers, right, if

677
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: our fans consumers can be our partners, I think that

678
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: really changes the nature and direction of the company. And

679
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody has done that historically. And again,

680
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: it's part of us where we're not even though TV

681
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: is a giant part of our business and video against

682
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: are joint part of our business. I really believe that

683
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: the focus of what we do is connect the creatives

684
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: with their fans, and we can be that place. I

685
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: think that's it opens up a tremendous alley for us.

686
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: Another manifestation of the streaming age is the in the

687
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: deals that get done between companies like yourselves and streaming services.

688
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: We're seeing obviously the popularity of the cost plus model,

689
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,479
Speaker 1: where you're not necessarily able to hold on to any

690
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: back end because the Netflix is of the world will

691
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: sort of buy that out from the outset. How do

692
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 1: you feel about that, because that is becoming a very

693
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: controversial subject. It seems like there's a real backlash in

694
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: the production community. Well, I think I think it's a

695
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 1: problem when you have when you're a content creator and

696
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 1: your financial incentives aren't the same as the person that's

697
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: distributing your show. Right. So, historically, putting aside whatever controversies

698
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: there might be about networks and the creators, both networks

699
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: and creators wanted as many people to watch their shows

700
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: as possible for the longest possible period of time. Right,

701
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: So there might be an arguments over shows cancer too soon,

702
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,919
Speaker 1: too late, right, like you know, someone spent too much

703
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: too little. Right, there's all those fights that we had

704
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: witnessed for you know that made up the uh, made

705
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: up all the journalism for decades, and you know, at Variety,

706
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: but ultimately CBN as they wanted people to watch their shows,

707
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: and they wanted people to watch their shows for every

708
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: week and watch it for year after year after year

709
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: after year. I don't feel the same right now with

710
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: that with a lot of the streamers because I think

711
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: they're much more interested and people connecting and paying a

712
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: fee and then forgetting about it. Right. So, um, you

713
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: look at something like HBO, which is highly correlated or

714
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: at least historically had been highly correlated around certain shows

715
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 1: coming up, so you can say, there's a certain people

716
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: that would subscribe and then forget it. And there are

717
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: certain people tune in the Game of Thrones or they

718
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: would tune in for White Lotus or whatever it is,

719
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: and they would subscribe and unsubscribed. But you were really

720
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: sort of tightly correlated around the performance of a couple

721
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: of hit shows. Um, you know, I think you look

722
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: at Netflix and I mean, there's so much going on,

723
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: right and there's so many shows that get canceled after

724
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: a couple of seasons because that's when this season's that

725
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: talents start asking for more money, they're able to renegotiate,

726
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: and that's it gets more expensive. There's no additional revenue

727
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: that comes to Netflix. If you're there for form and

728
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: you in Domer season two, it gets more expensive. There's

729
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 1: no additional revenue to the person already watching that show, right,

730
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: there's that person is already locked in. Whereas historically, when

731
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: with an advertising model, you were able to drive more

732
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 1: revenue if you said, hey, look we have Side Elvets

733
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: getting the biggest possible audience in the world. We can

734
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 1: actually make more money on it now, So it's okay

735
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: for the cost to increase. And I feel like that

736
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: that disconnect is. Ultimately the problem is that as a platform,

737
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: the big streamers are commoditizing producers. And I'll tell you

738
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: this as an artist, I didn't get into this business

739
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: to make a piece of content, right. I got into

740
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: make stories that matter, right. I got into make movies

741
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: and TV shows and books. Think that stories that matter.

742
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: I'm not a piece of content guy, And being reduced

743
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: to a tile, uh can feel really sort of diminutive.

744
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: So yes, Uh, it is a hot button, the hot

745
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: button topic in the creative community. I also want to know,

746
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, now that you've sort of made the transition

747
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: from uh you were you know, had a show at

748
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: a MC, a number of shows at a MC. Now

749
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: you're in with Amazon, would you still do linear old

750
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: school television? Is that you know you're still open to

751
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: parking a show there? Yeah, And look, I think linear

752
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: television the thing about it linear as long as there's

753
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: a streaming behind it, right, I actually think that there

754
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: is something. The other thing I hate is releasing all

755
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: the episodes at once. I hate it. You lose the

756
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: opportunity to have the cultural conversation. So our our big conversation.

757
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: And Amazon was a great partner here was. We said, look,

758
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: we don't want to go all at once on the business,

759
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: so they let us do put out the first three

760
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: and then they went weakly and it changed the nature

761
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: because we were able to sort of build this audience.

762
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: People started talking about it. People that normally wouldn't watch

763
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: the show. We're like, oh, I gotta watch it. I

764
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: need to catch up to be in there. So we

765
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: were able to sort of create these cultural moments, like, look,

766
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: I love dealing with thrones at the Red Wedding. Had

767
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: been binged, I don't think it would have been that

768
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: giint cultural moment um that it was, because you wouldn't

769
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: know where people are, right, So I feel like, yes,

770
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: I think it's incredibly I'm totally supportive of it here

771
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: as long as there's an opportunity to binge and catch up. Well, Alternatively,

772
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: the way you've just answered that question, I wonder would

773
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: you ever do a deal with Netflix where the orthodoxy

774
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 1: on the binge is pretty strong? You know, Look, I

775
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: would never say never, and I've done I've worked there,

776
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: and they do some things that are really amazingly well,

777
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's the best. I don't think

778
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: that that's in the best interest is of the creatives.

779
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: I think that's I would argue I don't even think

780
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: it's in their own best interests, but you know they

781
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: certainly know for themselves. So what's next for sky Bound?

782
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: Is there? You know you've mentioned Invincible, You've mentioned Impact Winter.

783
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: Are are there other pieces i P? Because I know

784
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: you've got like two hundred different pieces of I P

785
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: within the sky Bound Empire? What's next? Do you think

786
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: we should keep an eye on coming up the pipeline? Yeah? So, um,

787
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: we have a bunch of things. So, uh, Invincible Season

788
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: two and three is in production right now. We'll be

789
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: coming out. We'll be announcing a really states shortly. Um,

790
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: but we're very excited about what's going on in the

791
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 1: Invincible universe. Um. We have a show that we're starting

792
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: in South Africa. That's gonna be the first show that

793
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: we're we're funding that we're the studio on that we're

794
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 1: doing as a partnership with with Freely in the US,

795
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: Leftflix Africa UM and Sony for distribution. So but that

796
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: will be our first show there. It's a really really

797
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: cool sort of y a spy feeling. We're doing the

798
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: show of Encounada called Psychops, which is another animated show

799
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: that's um sort of you know, uh at Files Meet

800
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: south Park, which we're really excited about. It's really fun,

801
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: really sort of cool cutting in these great young creators

802
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: were working with. UM. So those are some of the

803
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: things we're having in the have a few other shows

804
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: that are next year as well. UM. And then one

805
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: of the biggest things we have is we have something

806
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: called the Coastal Coastal Project, a Coastal Protocole, which is

807
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: a video game that we're doing in conjunction with the

808
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: Striking Distance and Craft, and that comes out in about

809
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: three weeks. That's just a gigantic, beautiful sci fi horror

810
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 1: game that's just honestly the next level and the fan

811
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: reaction so far pretty through the root. So UM, I

812
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: mean there's just a ton going on. Um, you know,

813
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: right now it's sky Bound and I really feel like

814
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: it's never been a better time to be working at Skybone. Well,

815
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 1: it sounds like you've got a lot brewing there, David.

816
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: Thanks for taking the time to walk us through all

817
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 1: things sky Bound. Thank you. This has been another episode

818
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: of Strictly Business. Tune in next week for another helping

819
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 1: of Scintilla in conversation with media movers and shakers, and

820
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: please make sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear

821
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: future episodes. Also leave a review in Apple Podcasts and

822
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 1: let us know how we're doing