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Speaker 1: Warning.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for the absolutely insane first season

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Speaker 2: of The Cher Company, Head a Hamnet, five Nights at

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Speaker 2: Freddy's two and more. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion

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Speaker 2: and on Mersey Night, and welcome to XRGC, our group

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Speaker 2: chat weekly roundtable with producers and special guests to talk

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Speaker 2: about all the things we're excited about in movies, TV's, comics.

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Speaker 3: And pop culture. Who In today's episode, we're talking the

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Speaker 3: Chat Company finale. It was crazy. Super producer Aaron will

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Speaker 3: be joining us, and we're all gonna be saying what

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Speaker 3: the fuck happened? What the fuck happened, which is what

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Speaker 3: you've all been asking in the discord, So we're here

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Speaker 3: to ants. In segment two, we are gonna have Screw

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Speaker 3: Dream Queen and super producer Joel come in and give

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Speaker 3: us cinephile takes on two of the award front runners

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Speaker 3: directed by women Head and Hamnet. And in segment three

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Speaker 3: with thing let men have bad takes, good things can

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Speaker 3: come of them.

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Speaker 2: It's mostly just like normalize having strong opinions about stuff

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Speaker 2: in media.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, Let's let's go.

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Speaker 2: First to the Chair Company and welcome in super producer

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Speaker 2: Aaron to discuss the recent finale of the strangest show

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Speaker 2: that is currently on television.

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Speaker 4: Tim Robinson and Zach.

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Speaker 2: Canan's The Chair Company, let me try and summarize where

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Speaker 2: we ended at the season one finale.

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Speaker 1: Okay, The Chair Company.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we have learned that, first of all, we have

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Speaker 2: learned kind of thematically, that the overarching conspiracies around Techa,

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Speaker 2: the Red Ball, and the things that Ron is poking

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Speaker 2: into often seem to stem from personal incidents of humiliation.

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Speaker 2: These are like the strongest character motivators throughout the show,

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Speaker 2: and we see that with Jeff, who gets accidentally dominated

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Speaker 2: by his direct report Ron, and this turns into an

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Speaker 2: almost like psychologically breaking moment for Jeff, who we then

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Speaker 2: learn is potentially also a high ranking secret executive at

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Speaker 2: Teca whose music he's very interested in yacht rock and

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Speaker 2: eighties type music, whose personal musical stylings also seem to

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Speaker 2: directly resemble the Red Ball theme song. And also that

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Speaker 2: Jeff got me I mean crazy, And also that Jeff

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Speaker 2: is potentially mixed up in like a murder of a

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Speaker 2: musician that happened years ago somehow, so that Jeff might

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Speaker 2: be tied up in like assassinations. We've also learned that

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Speaker 2: it seems as if we get the reveal of the

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Speaker 2: person who's been calling Ron right, and it's this Jason mask,

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Speaker 2: heavily plastic surgery horror faced person who reveals that actually

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Speaker 2: what's behind all of this is potentially Amanda. Amanda is

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Speaker 2: the woman who when the chair breaks at the initial

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Speaker 2: meaning in the pilot episode right, Ron falls and looks

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Speaker 2: up Amanda's skirt by accident, and she gets very She

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Speaker 2: gets humiliated by this, and she wonders if he did

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Speaker 2: it on purpose, and she escalates it to a serious

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Speaker 2: HR complaint. We've learned that Amanda might have Amanda first

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Speaker 2: of all, may have telekinetic powers. Yeah, she may have

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Speaker 2: broken the chair on purpose in order to set in

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Speaker 2: motion events that will be her vengeance for an event

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Speaker 2: back in high school, because we learned earlier in the

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Speaker 2: season that Ron and Amanda went to high school together,

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Speaker 2: and that Ron in high school spit a jelly bean

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Speaker 2: into Amanda's cleavage, humiliating her, and that she has been

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Speaker 2: like holding onto this like inspiration for vengeance for many

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Speaker 2: a year. That's I think basically the Big Ones unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: Recap that Jason, because, as the discot said, what the

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Speaker 3: fuck is going on?

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Speaker 5: Aaron?

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Speaker 3: What were your biggest reactions as you are watching this episode?

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Speaker 6: Well, you guys missed my favorite part of this episode

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Speaker 6: where Mini Mouse, the new dog, runs away. He takes

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Speaker 6: her for a walk. She runs away to a house

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Speaker 6: and he goes in and the guy's like, thank you

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Speaker 6: for bringing Mini MOUs Us back here. Why don't you

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Speaker 6: come into the shed. I want to show you something. Yes,

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Speaker 6: and it's a it's a brand new shape.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 6: And he turns around and the guy's a vampire something.

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Speaker 6: And then he wakes up and the guy's like, thank

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Speaker 6: you so much for returning Mini Mouse, and he leaves

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Speaker 6: and then like sees like Instagram, Oh he wanted to

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Speaker 6: get a photo taken for INSANCT.

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Speaker 7: Well it was, yes, Well, first of all, to save him,

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Speaker 7: you're you're leaving out the part where the dog owner

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Speaker 7: so the dog that's originally the dog owner's original dog,

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Speaker 7: but the dog ran away because he was abusing the dog.

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Speaker 2: And so in fact, Ron is like accidentally helping someone

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Speaker 2: abuse Mini Mouse.

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Speaker 8: And then.

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Speaker 3: Goes crazy. This is I think, as we're talking about this,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of it's so crazy but it is kind

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Speaker 3: of cement in my mind. There's two big takeaways I

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Speaker 3: have from this season. One, it's like, what if Twin

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Speaker 3: Peaks was set somewhere that you really live? Like what

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Speaker 3: if it was the most boring contemporary suburb where no

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Speaker 3: one is going to be looking back on this in

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Speaker 3: ten years and doing aesthetic chair company, you know, things

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Speaker 3: like David Lynch did. It's almost like a rejection of

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Speaker 3: any kind of esthetic other than just like Middle America Suburbia,

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Speaker 3: which I think is really good. I also think it

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Speaker 3: leans into very hard the best of what Tim Robinson

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Speaker 3: has done before, which is these kind of extreme social

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Speaker 3: comedies about the worst way you could behave What if

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Speaker 3: your intrusive thought went through? This is kind of taking

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Speaker 3: that down a little bit. And it's like, what if

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Speaker 3: everything you worried about before you go to bed at

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Speaker 3: night when you can't sleep and you think about all

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Speaker 3: the embarrassing things you did as a teenager, and you

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Speaker 3: think about all the people you pissed off. What if

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Speaker 3: all of them rem but every single.

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Speaker 2: Thing that you've ever done wrong right? And what if

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Speaker 2: you can never let it go? Never let it go?

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Speaker 2: And what is in fact the genesis of every conspiracy

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Speaker 2: in the world is some minor event of humiliation that

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Speaker 2: someone can't forget. That's kind of like the thesis by

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Speaker 2: the show, and it's crazy. Super producer Ian is putting

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Speaker 2: in the chat that we're forgetting that Jeff's business partner

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Speaker 2: Stacy Crystal's got shot by the kid with the three

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Speaker 2: D printed gun. Again, unclear what Jeff's culpability is in that.

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Speaker 2: We're also forgetting the fact that it turns out Mike's

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Speaker 2: daughter is not his daughter, and that he is carrying

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Speaker 2: the original father's heart, and that because of that he

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Speaker 2: insisted on actually becoming her father and actually abuse was abusive.

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Speaker 1: To fuckets, we can't.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the amount of craziness in this is truly insane.

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Speaker 6: There's an element of everything in this that you feel

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Speaker 6: like this could have been and I think you should

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Speaker 6: leave skit and it would have been start finished, done,

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Speaker 6: and it's good, but this ratchets it up so much

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Speaker 6: because one of my things I think with I think

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Speaker 6: you should leave is one character is weird in every skin. Yes,

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Speaker 6: usually usually it's just one person and he's he or

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Speaker 6: shear is existing in a normal world. This show felt

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Speaker 6: like everyone was heightened and weird, and nothing was normal

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Speaker 6: the entire thing, whether it be his daughter's fiance, who's

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Speaker 6: who's really upset about the Wendy's carvers that might.

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Speaker 3: Be line delivery, line delivery of the year when she's like,

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Speaker 3: you told your dad about Wendy's canvas, you won't tell anyone.

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Speaker 6: Know. This truly feels like everything in this could be

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Speaker 6: like its own little bit and you would be fine

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Speaker 6: with it, but all added on top of each other,

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Speaker 6: they are It's like mind numbing. How many Like my

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Speaker 6: favorite favorite moment of the entire show, I think was

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Speaker 6: episode one with the wheelbarrow joke. Yeah, and at that

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Speaker 6: point I didn't even understand where we were going, and

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Speaker 6: I was like, oh, this is a good Tim Robinson thing,

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Speaker 6: and like looking back at that, oh my god, yeah

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Speaker 6: we were so we had no idea.

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Speaker 3: In this series have been so good. And also something

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Speaker 3: else I kind of love about this that we were

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Speaker 3: talking a little bit about off Mike, is like this

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Speaker 3: show follows HBO Sunday Night rules in some ways, even

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Speaker 3: though it follows no rules at all in others. So

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Speaker 3: like the penultimate episode really did explain that, you know,

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Speaker 3: the boss worked at Texas and all this as much

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Speaker 3: as Tillo Andson wants to explain, but it gave us

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Speaker 3: a little bit of action and kind of closure to

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Speaker 3: the point where I think a lot of people didn't

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Speaker 3: even realize that the finale was the finale until you

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Speaker 3: got that shocking moment at the end and then you go,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, wait, that's it, that's where we're going.

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Speaker 2: I want to apologize to everyone listening to the segment

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Speaker 2: who has not watched The Chair Company, because it's really

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Speaker 2: truly an inexplicable show.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people had this theory, but I was

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Speaker 2: I thought that the character played by Jim Downey Douglas

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Speaker 2: in the wheelchair, Yes, I was convinced that he that

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Speaker 2: there was something more to his character and that the

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Speaker 2: chair was somehow him when when you when he tells Ron,

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Speaker 2: when Ron's like, how long have you been in the

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Speaker 2: wheelchair for? And He's like, oh really, it's kind of

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Speaker 2: like as long as I want to be, like, I

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Speaker 2: could get out anytime. I thought that, Okay, for sure,

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Speaker 2: Douglas is mocking Ron with this chair reference, and that

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Speaker 2: somehow he is deeply enmeshed in this conspiracy.

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Speaker 4: We find out.

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Speaker 6: I also thought that sounded what's up? I thought the

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Speaker 6: I thought the person on the phone sounded like Doug.

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Speaker 4: Me too.

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Speaker 6: I was so sure the person calling is Douglas. Oh,

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Speaker 6: we're gonna get to it. Yeah, he's the one. And

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Speaker 6: then I even thought maybe he's in a baby mask

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Speaker 6: or something.

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Speaker 1: That's what I thought.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's a mask and it's still Douglas. Yeah, which

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Speaker 2: I think is still okay. Let's be clear about one thing.

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Speaker 2: All the reveals of the Jason mask guy at the end,

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Speaker 2: that Amanda has powers and it's all like her and

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Speaker 2: the jelly beat all that shit, and you know she

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Speaker 2: can move things when with her mind, when she's emotionally

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Speaker 2: charged up enough, all of that can be wiped away

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Speaker 2: in ten seconds. In the season one, season two premiere

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Speaker 2: of the show, right, that could all be like go away,

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Speaker 2: But it feels like the other shoot a trap is

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Speaker 2: Douglas because there's too many strands, in particular that the

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Speaker 2: comment about the wheelchair was like, oh, yeah, I can

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Speaker 2: be in it for as long as I want. There's

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Speaker 2: something more there.

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Speaker 6: The part of wonders if every if nothing means anything,

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Speaker 6: and if we get like, would you be surprised? If

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Speaker 6: season two starts and it's totally different, yes, I could

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Speaker 6: definitely see that.

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Speaker 3: Also, I would say I think that they could do

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Speaker 3: a totally different second season because they essentially established that

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Speaker 3: somebody's a psychic, So if they want, she can be telekinetic,

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Speaker 3: she can invent a new world like wonder you know,

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Speaker 3: I would just say, like, we don't know where it's going.

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Speaker 3: I think that's really amazing. I would also say I

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Speaker 3: do think you know, people said it early on and

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Speaker 3: I bought up at the beginning, but I have seen

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Speaker 3: post the finale a lot of people say, Okay, maybe

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Speaker 3: this is the first show that can take on the

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Speaker 3: next Twin Peaks because it's not worried about a lot

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Speaker 3: of the things that shows conformed to in the same

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Speaker 3: way that Lynch's Twin Peaks was. So I think, like,

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Speaker 3: we need to get into that second season and see

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Speaker 3: if they can keep the mystery going because I don't

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Speaker 3: think HBO is going to, you know, force them to

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Speaker 3: reveal anything that they don't want to reveal, like what

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Speaker 3: happened with Twin Peaks. So yeah, very excited.

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Speaker 6: Do you have anyone in your life that watched this

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Speaker 6: that doesn't typically like Tim Robinson stuff.

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Speaker 3: No, I've I've recommended it to a couple of people

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Speaker 3: who have not watched I think you should leave now,

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Speaker 3: and they have liked it as a kind of like, whoa,

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Speaker 3: this is so weird, But I've yet to introduce it

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Speaker 3: to someone who are like, this is their favorite show.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Like, I'm not sure if if you don't like

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Speaker 6: the zipline sketch and I think you should, I'm not

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Speaker 6: sure that old testa Aaron.

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Speaker 3: If you haven't tried The Chair Company and you want

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Speaker 3: to know what we're talking about, and you're looking for

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Speaker 3: a show that's thirty minutes long that you can just

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Speaker 3: binge with your friends and talk about for ages, watch

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Speaker 3: the watch on YouTube or your favorite video watching platform

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Speaker 3: or Netflix where you can stream it right now. The

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Speaker 3: zipline skit from I think you should leave because Aaron,

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Speaker 3: I think you're right. If you get the zipline skit,

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Speaker 3: you will probably go along for the ride of this show.

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Speaker 3: Jason as of TV writer, craziest moment that they got

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Speaker 3: in that you think would have been the hardest thing

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Speaker 3: to pitch if you're not Tim Robinson, I mean all

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 4: The full frontal blowjob at the end, of Yeah. Episode

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Speaker 4: high was Yah.

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Speaker 3: It was crazy fucking jarring. It was like what yeah,

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Speaker 3: And I never believe it.

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Speaker 2: The moment from this episode where it's like, hey, come

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Speaker 2: to my shed and then he's like, do you want

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Speaker 2: to see my new shape?

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Speaker 4: That was so.

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Speaker 1: What?

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Speaker 3: Like I that was so deep understand like.

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Speaker 4: What that was about?

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, and what happened to Ron?

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Speaker 1: There?

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Speaker 2: He was because he's not the other thing we're not

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Speaker 2: talking about is like he's knocked out like in quick succession,

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Speaker 2: like over that sequence like twice in this.

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Speaker 3: A vampire I mean, okay, wait, no, no, no, back

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Speaker 3: to the more boring answers of this that we had

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Speaker 3: been theorizing on. This does go with one of my

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Speaker 3: greatest theories about this show, which is he is constantly

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Speaker 3: having traumatic brain injuries throughout the show, like just over

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Speaker 3: and over again.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And Ian is like, does he just have a TBI?

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, maybe he just does and he's been

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Speaker 3: so concussed, like maybe his brain is just constantly like

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Speaker 3: in recovery from concussion and he's hallucinating and stuff. We

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Speaker 3: don't know, and that's why I think the show is

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Speaker 3: so amazing. Okay, final question, I wanted to ask you both,

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Speaker 3: what do you need first? New series of I Think

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Speaker 3: You Should Leave Now or new series of The Chair Company.

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Speaker 2: Oh, either one is fine for me. I'm I'm utterly

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Speaker 2: baffled and intrigued by The Chair Company. I think it

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Speaker 2: was the most It was like being shot with a

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Speaker 2: shotgun of fragmentary, very strange ideas that somehow connect. But

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Speaker 2: and so I'm absolutely enthused for a second season. I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to see where it goes. I think, listen,

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Speaker 2: I love I Think You Should leave. But I but

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Speaker 2: it's also like, you know what that is. It's a

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Speaker 2: sketch sketch comedy show. This is it is like Twin

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Speaker 2: Peaks return, like in a different almost stranger Yeah. I

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Speaker 2: think what I love about it is there was a

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Speaker 2: mystique and a coolness to Twin Peaks that felt a

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Speaker 2: little bit like the Emperor's New Clothes. Like it's cool

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Speaker 2: and it's heightened and there's something mysterious about it. And

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Speaker 2: part of how you feel about it is the fact

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Speaker 2: that you don't understand it. This show is goofy and

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Speaker 2: weird and not cool, like it's the mystery is like

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Speaker 2: it's not necessary, it's not a mystery like oh am

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Speaker 2: I missing something? It's like did I literally miss a scene?

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Speaker 2: Did miss did I miss an episode? A miss a scene?

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Speaker 2: And I don't know what's going on? And that is

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Speaker 2: such a interesting line to walk for me that I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to see where this goes. What about you, guys,

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Speaker 2: I would love to get another season of this and

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Speaker 2: I'd love for him to use more of his stable

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Speaker 2: of actors, like he has a couple of people who've

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Speaker 2: been in I think you should leave multiple seasons. The

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Speaker 2: guy who sings the really dirty songs, he and I

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Speaker 2: think you should leave. He's the one who is the

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Speaker 2: voice actor that they meet at the bar who tries

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Speaker 2: to steal the coke.

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Speaker 4: I'd love to get.

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Speaker 6: You know, Patti Harrison in here in something some way

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Speaker 6: to be a character, and you know she can do

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Speaker 6: some dramatic things as well as her typical like exuberant

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Speaker 6: blow up. Get conor O Mallley to do something like

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Speaker 6: One of my favorite scenes from Friendship is the deleted

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Speaker 6: scene of conra Malley a lot of shouting at each other.

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Speaker 6: So I, as much as I will always ravenously consume

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Speaker 6: a new I think you should leave give me more

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Speaker 6: cherir com.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, I'm gonna go with you, Guys,

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Speaker 3: I love I think you should leave for the meme factor.

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Speaker 3: But you know what, the three seasons we already have

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Speaker 3: of a Netflix are so good that I can just

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Speaker 3: rewatch it and put it on at anytime. It's very

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Speaker 3: sketch comedy in that way. This show I need more

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Speaker 3: of and I feel like, guys, you can make this

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Speaker 3: in less than two years. I believe Tim Robinson can

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Speaker 3: be out there right now in Albuquerque wherever the fuck

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Speaker 3: you film this making a new season for us.

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Speaker 6: I mean, they have to release a new season before

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Speaker 6: Wendy's Carvers actually comes out, exactly.

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Speaker 3: That's what I was gonna say. You know it happens.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll be back

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Speaker 2: talk Header and Hamnett, the super producer.

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Speaker 5: Jow up, Thank you, Aaron, and we're back.

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Speaker 3: The Universal Minion has saluted to the stars, They've released

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Speaker 3: Santa the all of the signs are lit. It is

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Speaker 3: award season. So we are bringing in Scream Queen and

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Speaker 3: Cinophile and super producer Joel Monique to tell us about

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Speaker 3: two of the female directed front runners. Post the reveal

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Speaker 3: of the Golden Globes nominees Joel Welcome, Thank.

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Speaker 1: You, Thank You, Rosie.

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Speaker 8: This year in November, two films from two of our

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Speaker 8: greatest directors entered the nation's consciousness. They speak to wild

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Speaker 8: hearts of women, the natural beauty versus the manicure deception

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Speaker 8: of beauty. Both are adaptations, both period pieces, both led

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Speaker 8: by performers known to portray difficult people, and both movies

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Speaker 8: directors are coming off of what many consider to be

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Speaker 8: marvel misses. I'm speaking, of course, of Niada Costa's Heada

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Speaker 8: and Chloe Jao's Hamnett. In Heda, DaCosta takes the eighteen

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Speaker 8: ninety feminist play by Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen, which explores

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Speaker 8: the life of Heada, stuck in a loveless marriage, confined

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Speaker 8: to the restraints of aristocracy, society.

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Speaker 1: And dangerously bored.

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Speaker 8: After her unraveling X shows up, a glimpse of the

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Speaker 8: different head of shows up. She stops performing the role

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Speaker 8: briefly and is so devastated by what she resides underneath

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Speaker 8: her skin, her cowardice, her cruelty, her desire to be

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Speaker 8: loved and be free. She's haunted by all of it,

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Speaker 8: and then tragedy strikes, and she fucking cracks guys.

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Speaker 1: Dakosa chooses to set her.

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Speaker 8: Adaptation in the nineteen fifties in England. She places a

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Speaker 8: biracial bisexual as the lead, swap the infamous ex's gender,

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Speaker 8: and found a hauntingly gorgeous palatialist state as the play's background.

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Speaker 8: Tessa Thompson is profound in this role, a terrifying fury,

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Speaker 8: she pushes, prods, provokes, and pulverizes her friends as she

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Speaker 8: confronts the faux reality of her life. She doesn't love

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Speaker 8: her husband, she doesn't like her friends, the grand home

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Speaker 8: she resides in is financially breaking them, and the love

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Speaker 8: of her life is a woman. She doesn't have the

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Speaker 8: courage to love out loud, and she's fallen for someone

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Speaker 8: else who so passionately loves her it crushes poor Heada.

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Speaker 8: Thompson leads this character with so much humanity that every

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Speaker 8: cruel whist breaks your heart, not just for the victim,

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Speaker 8: but for Hedda, who is actively destroying any hope of

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Speaker 8: happiness she might personally achieve. DeCosta skills as a director

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Speaker 8: are fully on display, not just through the incredible performances,

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Speaker 8: but my god, the framing of these lush party scenes,

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Speaker 8: and the action she's able to capture within these static

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Speaker 8: shots is breathtaking. Beautifully photographed by Sean Bobbitt, who has

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Speaker 8: like an intimate history of filming isolating Heartbreak. He did

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Speaker 8: Twelve Years of Slave, Shame and Hunger. Edda really resets

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Speaker 8: the bar for like the grand dinner party taking place

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Speaker 8: over a single night. It's the costumes by Lindsay Pew,

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Speaker 8: whose work includes Sense eight and the live action How

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Speaker 8: to Train Your Dragon, that hypnotically transforms and elevates each

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Speaker 8: characters state of mind, including in one of the most

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Speaker 8: shocking betrayals of sisterhood I've ever seen on screen. Give

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Speaker 8: Pew the Oscar Okay Hamnet. It's a love story and

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Speaker 8: it's about the beauty and tragedy of opposites. See visceral

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Speaker 8: visual representation of Newton's third law, Everything has an equal

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Speaker 8: and op it reaction to Agnes is twenty six. She's single,

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Speaker 8: she's a burden to her step mother, A forest witch,

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Speaker 8: and a young Shakespeare comes across her path and girlies.

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Speaker 8: He is smitten a brief flirtation. Knowing their parents won't

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Speaker 8: approve of the marriage, they consummate that bad boy. Themselves pregnant,

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Speaker 8: no one's gonna stop them from getting married, and at

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Speaker 8: first it's the best kind of romance. Will is physically

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Speaker 8: and emotionally abused by his father, but through Agnes's bold

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Speaker 8: rejection of any expectation set on her, he begins to write.

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Speaker 8: And when she witnesses his talent, she's brave enough to

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Speaker 8: say go to London, Huby, like go be and he

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Speaker 8: does be. She gets to be herself in the marriage,

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Speaker 8: and she's filled with love and she's safe and she

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Speaker 8: could just be herself. And that's honestly the greatest gift

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Speaker 8: and one of my favorite moments of the film. Joh

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Speaker 8: places Agnes entangled roots of a Tree. Lucas Zou shot

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Speaker 8: this film, and if you love his black and white

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Speaker 8: work and Ida and Cold War, if you haven't seen them,

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Speaker 8: watch them great films you're gonna be astonished by like

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Speaker 8: his sumptuous, sumptuous use of color. Here, it's so bold

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Speaker 8: and so beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Alone but not lonely.

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Speaker 8: This is where Agnes choose to give birth. She's gripping

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Speaker 8: the exposed roots of a tree, plunging deep into the

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Speaker 8: ground while she's looking at the branches as they stretch

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Speaker 8: to the sky. She is balanced when within nature, a

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Speaker 8: part of it.

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Speaker 1: Soon we learn she.

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Speaker 8: Cannot leave these woods, so she doesn't feel safe in town,

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Speaker 8: where she's eventually forced to give birth to twins by

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Speaker 8: her disapproving mother in law, who finds her trying to

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Speaker 8: sneak out with Will in London. She has a premonition

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Speaker 8: of two children by her deathbed, not three, and now

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Speaker 8: Agnes is freaked out. She worries about her daughter, who

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Speaker 8: almost didn't survive the birth, and from there a rift begins.

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Speaker 8: She's doing everything to care for her children. Will's doing

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Speaker 8: everything to succeed in his career, and she can't see

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Speaker 8: herself there with him. Tragedy strikes Will is there to

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Speaker 8: support Will isn't there to support her? And not all

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Speaker 8: the difference that allow them to be free and themselves

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Speaker 8: feel like an ocean of misunderstanding. Grief consumes them and

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Speaker 8: they cannot hope to soothe one another. I can't spoil

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Speaker 8: the ending for you, but I will say Jow's specialty

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Speaker 8: is always strength and fragility, and the heart shattering wholeness

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Speaker 8: I felt after the conclusion of this film was almost overwhelming.

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Speaker 8: Jesse Buckley and Paul mescal are like ideal love interests.

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Speaker 8: You could just it comes out of them in every pore,

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Speaker 8: in every scene. It's so beautiful. The child actors sensational,

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Speaker 8: like really gentle, beautiful, natural performances.

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Speaker 1: What a gift.

436
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 8: Messy women on screen can be stories remind us of

437
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 8: what it means to be human and give us options

438
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 8: on how to be our authentic selves. Great art is

439
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 8: always a mirror, and you cannot see your truth in

440
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 8: perfectly beautiful, perfectly supportive fragility, nor can you observe yourself

441
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 8: in safely comical, still perfectly beautiful and eternally strong people.

442
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 8: Both films feature women not just enduring, not just unraveling,

443
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 8: but teetering wildly between the communities surrounding them and the

444
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 8: chaos of the universe. In other words, it's a glimpse

445
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 8: at real life. I come from an era of aspiring

446
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 8: women filmmakers who saw significant growth in the conversation around

447
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 8: women in the industry programs to support us. A number

448
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 8: of nameable women directors outside the tight knit circle of

449
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 8: the industry grew, but the number of women granted access

450
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 8: to the director's has changed very little. Between two thousand

451
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 8: and five, with the Geena Davis Institute on Gender and

452
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 8: Media began tracking the representation of women behind the camera

453
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 8: and on screen. In twenty fifteen, only about four percent

454
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 8: of movies were directed by women. Of the two hundred

455
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 8: twenty TV shows representing about three five hundred total episodes,

456
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 8: only fourteen percent were directed by women. It's not last

457
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 8: amy that it took Testa Thompson launching her own production

458
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 8: company in some kind of miracle to see headed through

459
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 8: two strikes to get a theatrical release, while hamm at

460
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 8: Boast industry tightened Sam Mendez and Steven Spielberg as producers.

461
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 8: We'll certainly see Buckley and Thompson squaring off for Best Actress,

462
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 8: and definitely Jall possibly DaCosta will face off for Best Director.

463
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 8: I would once again like to submit for your consideration

464
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 8: superlatives instead of best of view the art as a gift,

465
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 8: not a competition. When we get two films of this stature,

466
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 8: of this importance, we all leave winners. I loved these movies, guys.

467
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 8: I thought it was so beautiful, so moving, so much

468
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 8: talent on the screen.

469
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: I need more of it.

470
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 3: I love that you were just like so you were like,

471
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: I go to get my film critic mind back on it. Baby,

472
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 3: I gotta write these No. I love this. I'm super

473
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 3: excited to see both me and Jason mentioned we hadn't

474
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: gotten to see them yet, Joelle. Women being directed for

475
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 3: Best Director is not very usual. Often they will get

476
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: nominated for Best Picture but not Best Director. Do you

477
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: think either of these are going to break through on that?

478
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: If Cloe Joao doesn't get the NAM, it's a catastrophe.

479
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 4: I think Jao will get the NUM.

480
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: She has to get the NAM.

481
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 8: Yeah, She's been nominated a lot. It's one of the

482
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 8: most talked about films. Again with if you know about

483
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 8: the Oscars, and we don't talk about it too much

484
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 8: on this show, but like it is, if you saw

485
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 8: the studio, you understand it's as much a personality contest

486
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 8: as it is a talent contest. And with Mendes and

487
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 8: Spielberg behind them, like their jaw is going to be

488
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 8: able to be in front of everybody who's important on.

489
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: The voting body. So I am I would be shocked

490
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: if it didn't.

491
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 8: But I also think you know, for me, what DaCosta

492
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 8: did here is incredible, Like I truly thought Tessa showed

493
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 8: us a new level and depth to her talent, and

494
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 8: I think, you know, like to take.

495
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: A feel like I didn't hype up the dress enough. Guys.

496
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 8: It's a single dress that transforms nine times over the

497
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 8: course of the film, and it's so shockingly beautiful and

498
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 8: explorative of who that character is. I was astounded at

499
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 8: what like costumes, was able to accomplish, and then to

500
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 8: shoot all of it, and it's so so big. I'm

501
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 8: talking like several hundred extras. It had to be every

502
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 8: day because there's very few shots where it's just two.

503
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: People in a room.

504
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 8: It to me an accomplishment for Niada Coosa is far

505
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 8: exceeds anything she's done before, and it makes me very

506
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 8: excited for what she does next.

507
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: Can't wait for Bone Church.

508
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 3: I am also just really happy because her Criterion Closet

509
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 3: video went viral, not just because her picks were great

510
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 3: like love and basketball and then come and see like

511
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 3: id on it, yes, but also because she was looking

512
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 3: fine as how and like, oh my god, she's so beautiful,

513
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 3: and yeah, I hope some dudes just vote for her

514
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 3: because of that, because the movie is great. She deserves

515
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 3: to be nominated, and I Love, Joel, that you tied

516
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 3: the two threads together of them both coming off these

517
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 3: big Marvel movies. Also, let's talk a little bit about

518
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: how adaptation has changed, because I think about when you're

519
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: describing something like Hamnet, you cannot stop thinking about how

520
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 3: similar like it could sound to something like Shakespeare in

521
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: Love or one of those more obvious like Oscary. Kind

522
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: of same with Header. Right, There's been translations and adaptations

523
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 3: of Ibsen's work before, but we're in a place now

524
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 3: where these women directors are able to push them into

525
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: something so totally different. Like Hamnet is not an easy watch, right,

526
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 3: that's like a distressing art house drama. Like it is

527
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: not some fluffy take your grandparents to see it at

528
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 3: the Christmas box office, right, Like this is a very

529
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: different type of Shakespearean adaptation that of course is about Shakespeare,

530
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 3: but it's also kind of about Hamler. Did you talk

531
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 3: a little bit about that.

532
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on the adaptation

533
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 8: aspect of it. So Maggie O'Farrell wrote Hamnet, but then

534
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 8: Chloe was like, girl, I don't understand Shakespeare, but I

535
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 8: understand emotionally what you're doing.

536
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: Come write this with me. So she has a.

537
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 8: Co screenwriting credit with Chloe, which is an incredible thing.

538
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 8: A lot of times, you know, especially I think directors

539
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 8: and producers they get nervous.

540
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: You know.

541
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 8: Novel writing is very different from script writing, and so

542
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 8: for her to have the trust and faith and the

543
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 8: guidance and that I think they were. And then too,

544
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 8: if you think about it, Hamnet's almost an adaptation. It's

545
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 8: really trying to pick apart, like in what ways is

546
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:42,479
Speaker 8: Hamlet exploring Shakespeare's response to his son Hamnett's death exactly?

547
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 8: And as you like think about it that way, like

548
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 8: the tears of storytelling in the ipsten of it all too,

549
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 8: like eighteen ninety that play comes out it is a

550
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 8: feminist like revelation before we're getting fully into feminist movements,

551
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 8: like this is an interior life of a woman who

552
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 8: is orpisfully cruel and mean, who has also been abused

553
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 8: and discarded and liked.

554
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: To how both of those things? Yes?

555
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 8: And how's both of those things in a single character?

556
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 8: And do it successfully? I mean, it shows the longevity

557
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 8: of it. And I think the way that DaCosta was like,

558
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 8: how can I twist and push this forward? For example,

559
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 8: the X in the original play is obviously a man.

560
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 8: He's a teacher who no one takes seriously. But Neo

561
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 8: is like, you're a professor, a white professor, and no

562
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 8: one takes you seriously. Like I don't have a lot

563
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 8: of empathy for that, Like, what are we talking about here?

564
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 8: She's like, but if you're a woman in the fifties

565
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 8: trying to get into the university and be considered as

566
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 8: a professor and taken seriously, that I can connect to you.

567
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: That I understand.

568
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 8: And so I think both of these things did beautifully.

569
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 8: Was they really took into consideration the original text and

570
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 8: the current audience, and I think that's kind of where

571
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 8: the magic of a solid adaptation lives.

572
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree. I also think that the fact

573
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: that they took in their own considerations of how they

574
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 3: can connect with the work, that's what a good director does, right.

575
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: But it can be tough when you're adapting something a

576
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: like Heada that's been around for such a long time,

577
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 3: or be like Hamnet that was such a huge smash

578
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: hit when the book came out. But obviously having Maggie

579
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: involved is incredible. I'm so excited for both of these movies.

580
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: Joela that any other movies on your raidarf as we

581
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: head into the very early days of award season that

582
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 3: you don't think people are talking about yet.

583
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: Ooh, that is such a good question.

584
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 8: I will be honest and say I haven't seen as

585
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 8: many movies as I would like to do. This is

586
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 8: the thing something I'm really working on correcting next year.

587
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 8: I've been in my pidu sin bag. I've been in

588
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 8: my writing bag, so I haven't been to the screen

589
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 8: as much, and so therefore I've seen mostly like what

590
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 8: everyone has seen. The movie I'm most excited to see

591
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 8: that I haven't seen yet that I think will be

592
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 8: very heavy in Awards season.

593
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: It's Train Dreams. I love me some nick Cave guys.

594
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm a big nicky Stan.

595
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 8: I think when he does a Western stuf it is

596
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 8: at its most sensational.

597
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: Uh.

598
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 8: And I love I love I love sad Man. I

599
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 8: can't help it if grown Man is crying on screen.

600
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 8: I'm crying in my chair. I think we're gonna get

601
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 8: And I also just love like the expansion of the

602
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 8: West is such an interesting, horrifying, beautiful and weird time

603
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 8: in America.

604
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: I'm excited for that.

605
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: I'm excited for that one too, because I think it's

606
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: gonna do something that other movies in that space have

607
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: not done before. There is a movie, I believe it's

608
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: called Serena. It's a Bradley Cooper Jennifer Lawrence movie about

609
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 3: building the railways in America. It's kind of a meta mystery.

610
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: It's kind of an eroic thriller. It's fine, but it's

611
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 3: also like interesting when you look at the scope of it.

612
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 3: But they're not realistic about how those railways were built,

613
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: like indentured Asian American servants and indentured immigrants and stuff.

614
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 3: But Train Dreams is about that. Trained Dreams is honest

615
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: about that. There's an incredible book, The Legend of Anti Poe,

616
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 3: by this incredible cartoonist called Shingyin Koor. It's about the

617
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: Paul Bunyan mythology and about how a lot of the

618
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: Paul Bunyan mythology comes from the era that people were

619
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 3: building the trains to explain how the logs were getting

620
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: down there when it was really, you know, a cover

621
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: up for the fact that a lot of people are

622
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: not being paid. And I kind of love to see

623
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: an American drama of epic scope that wants to really

624
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 3: interact with the realities of the history. I think it's

625
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: why I liked it Welcome to Derry so much and

626
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: why honestly it has peaked to become one of my

627
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 3: favorite because I think they balanced that so well, and

628
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: I'm excited with Train Dreams. I also think I've seen

629
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 3: Joel Egerton and a lot of stuff. I think when

630
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: they were trying to make him like a young hunk,

631
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: I wasn't really buying it, but this character actor era,

632
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 3: he's in into it. The soundtrack looks amazing, very I

633
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: love a depressing movie about old America, so I'm also

634
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 3: excited for that one. Jason, any big Awards movies that

635
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: you were most excited to see as we.

636
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: Had into the words, I mean, hemnin had A are

637
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 2: two huge ones I'm trying to make to see it.

638
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 2: I think one I've I've been watching a lot of

639
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 2: documentaries and the one thing that I'm actually really excited

640
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 2: for is the kind of long awaited Netflix Seymour Hirsh,

641
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: Yes documentary that's coming out. Seymour Hirsh, who broke some

642
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: of the most important stories of the twentieth century, the

643
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: Meli Massacre, the Pentagon Papers many other things of that

644
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: ilk Who's kind of more recent stories have seemed to

645
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: take him into a more conspiratorial territory.

646
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 3: Because he walked like.

647
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 4: I believe that, Yeah like it.

648
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: He had a very from some years ago at the

649
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: New York Review of Books, which is kind of like

650
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: his final rung on the way to hitting uh, you know,

651
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 2: rock bottom substack level, like having to get a job

652
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 2: that way is a story about how it was actually

653
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: the US that secretly sabotaged the Nord Nord stream pipeline

654
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 2: and you're yes. And he's written other stories like that

655
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 2: where I'm just like you better be fucking right, buddy.

656
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: Ship.

657
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 6: Now.

658
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: The the documentary, the name of which I'm forgetting right,

659
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: it's called cover Up, Cover Up Is is produced by

660
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: and directed I believe by Laura Poetriss, who also did

661
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 2: the The Snowden documentary, which in retrospect was maybe a

662
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: little too credulous of Snowden. Yeah, I know, so it'll

663
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: be I'm interested to see. I'm really interested to see

664
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 2: a laying out of this guy's life. Who's again has

665
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 2: been probably one of the most important newsbreakers muckrakers of

666
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: the of the last fifty sixty years and who seems

667
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: to still be on the hunt, even though wherever that

668
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: path has taken him seems to be to the edges

669
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: of believability. So I'm just interested to see he seems

670
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: like like either I'm gonna come away from this documentary thinking,

671
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: oh my god, it sema hurts like we got to

672
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: really pay attention, or I'm gonna come away feeling like

673
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 2: this guy got lost in the hallways of his own

674
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: mind somehow, But.

675
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 4: I'm eager to watch it.

676
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a quick break, and we were right.

677
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:54,959
Speaker 4: Back with more, and we're back.

678
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: Let's talk about criticism, Joelle, since you brought up one

679
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: full piece of critical writing on Eda and Hamnet and

680
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: also kind of briefly touched on the tone and tenor

681
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 2: of modern criticism these days, I wanted to bring this

682
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 2: up because you may have seen recently that Quentin Tarantino

683
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: kind of inexplicably and out of the blue on Brett

684
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 2: Easton Ellis's podcast, which is a podcast that I am

685
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: proud to have only been like tangentially aware that it

686
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: existed and have never actually listened to. Quentin went on

687
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 2: there and proceeded to fire a fusillade of bullets at

688
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: Paul Dano, the actor Paul Dano basically saying, and I

689
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: believe this is a direct quote, that he's the worst

690
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 2: actor in SAG that's direct que and that he may

691
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: and to basically go on and say that you know

692
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 2: there will be blood is a is a mass is

693
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: a modern master piece, and the only thing that keeps

694
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: it from reaching the lofty heights of like a fucking

695
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: Citizen Kane or something is Paul Dano's appearances. Right, chill out, well,

696
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: I mean, this is what he's saying, and listen, I

697
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: disagree with that take.

698
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 4: Although I have a difference.

699
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: Does Tarantino still have his.

700
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 2: This is my biggest I'll say this, and I disagree

701
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 2: strongly with Tarantino, who I find annoying.

702
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: It's like, just make the movies, buddy.

703
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 5: I don't know, but it made me.

704
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: The comment itself made me like weirdly wistful for like

705
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: an early two thousands Obama era style of discourse on

706
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: the internet that kind of doesn't exist anymore, you know.

707
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 2: I think that one of the few ways and listen,

708
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 2: I'm not using now. Quentin Tarantino is an exemplar of

709
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 2: this but one of the things I've noticed is I

710
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: think criticism is a little too nice.

711
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 3: I agree.

712
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: I think I think we can be meaner in spaces

713
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: where it's okay to be mean. Sometimes I think we're

714
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: mean when listen, Society is extremely mean right now, but

715
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 2: it's mean to people who are weak instead of being

716
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 2: mean to people who were strong. And I think it's

717
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 2: absolutely okay and good to be mean to people who

718
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: are strong. And I think that in the early two

719
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: thousands there was we were more in touch with our

720
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: willingness to be mean on the internet to people who

721
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 2: kind of deserved it. And I think one of the

722
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: few weapons the powerless have, I guess the powerful is

723
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 2: to make fun of them and be mean to us.

724
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: I agree again, I disagree with what Quentin said, but well,

725
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 2: it made me wishful for more meanness in our in

726
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 2: our discourse, and I think we need a little bit

727
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: more critical meanness.

728
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 3: So I'm going to give you some. I'm gonna give

729
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 3: sure some one I do not agree with Quentin, and

730
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 3: Arthena agreed. I disagree with Quentin clear and he is

731
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 3: the boss, so he is punching down. But I understand

732
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: what you mean, because what has come of this that

733
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 3: was very akin to those old days is somebody says

734
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 3: something stupid and then everyone who who likes the person

735
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 3: they said it about goes, oh my god, you're actually

736
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: like so wrong. And Paul Dano is amazing, and I

737
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 3: do love that a big part of this has been

738
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: people coming out and being like, here's my favorite Pauldano performance.

739
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: You know, it's lot of positives around the around the

740
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: fact that one people are like, oh man, Quentin Tarantinos,

741
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: he does show his asshole lot, doesn't.

742
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: Yeh, shut the shuck up.

743
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: This broad out pouring of support to Paul Dano, which

744
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 2: also maybe he wouldn't have he wouldn't have realized how

745
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 2: many people really love and appreciate his work.

746
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 3: Also, I will say another thing that I like out

747
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 3: of this is I have seen hopefully my dream, not

748
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 3: that I imagine Quentin Tarantino is sitting on the internet

749
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 3: looking at these though he does seem like a name

750
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 3: search or I'm not there lie, But like my other

751
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 3: thing is like Matthew Lillard. He also went after him

752
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 3: and said he thought he was a mid actor, which

753
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: is so random because like he's such a nice guy

754
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 3: and also like a great actor with many crazy also

755
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 3: like not somebody out here trying to act like they

756
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 3: are getting an oscar, Like this is a genre store war, right,

757
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 3: But something I really loved that I felt like Matthew

758
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 3: Lillard was definitely hearing. I saw loads of film bros

759
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 3: just come out of nowhere and just start being like, dude,

760
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 3: you were in twin Peaks. David Lynch liked you like

761
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: who gives a fuck? Like twenty and Tarantino's irrelevant, you know,

762
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 3: And I like to see the discourse is expanding into

763
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: the place where we can also insult him back. That's

764
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 3: what I think we're missing. I will say the biggest

765
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 3: reason we do not have that anymore. And Joelle, I

766
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 3: know you're going to step into this more. Look, there

767
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 3: were as women who grew up in this and Jason

768
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 3: and I know this too as a as a Asian

769
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 3: American man. It was not some easy time for you.

770
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 3: There was a negative aspect to the to the geek

771
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 3: meanness of it all. But what we don't have now

772
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: that we had then that equalled it out was now

773
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: because of the digital media landscape, we are not in

774
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 3: a space where there is an incredibly angry, well paid

775
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 3: twenty one year old woman ready to write the ultimate

776
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 3: takedown of Quentin Tarantino and all of his fucking issues,

777
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 3: and that would have kept the discourse going if that

778
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: had exists at Jezebel or Polygon or even Vulture or

779
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 3: Gorka exactly, like I think, exactly, I think a lot

780
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 3: of val rute. There used to be places, so many

781
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 3: happened in a way where normal people journalists were able

782
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 3: to have these takes, these critical takes, I mean, doing

783
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:53,919
Speaker 3: it functioning Twitter exactly. Think about Angelica Jade Bastian, who's

784
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: always she's not afraid to write like a scary, a

785
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 3: scary out there take right like that someone might not like.

786
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 3: She did a great article that I felt balanced so

787
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: much of the conversation around one Battle after in a

788
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: way that was so thoughtful about all the incredible black

789
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 3: women performances in it, and also about what worked and

790
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 3: what didn't. Those are the kind of spaces that we

791
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 3: don't have anymore. That I think makes it harder than

792
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 3: ever to critique, because now a studio can have an

793
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 3: influence to go to something and just say that they

794
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 3: like it, right, because that is the culture of that

795
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: side of media. So why would they invite someone who

796
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 3: can critique it or write something thoughtful, And that I

797
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 3: think is the problem of where we are right now

798
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 3: and why it feels like even when people are having thoughtful,

799
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: critical conversations. We have made an effort to try and

800
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: we're always positive. We know that guy, so it's very funny,

801
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 3: but we've tried to be a bit more like real

802
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,439
Speaker 3: and kind of not yuck people's yums, while also being

803
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 3: honest about the way we feel about stuff and the

804
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 3: passions we have, both positive and negative. There are not

805
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 3: a lot of spaces like that online and I think

806
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 3: I think that that makes it really feel like there

807
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: is a death of any kind of critique, and that's

808
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 3: why something like this it throws you back to those

809
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 3: old kind of celeb mag eras, and this is the

810
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 3: best version of it where it's just some dude saying

811
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 3: rich dudes saying mean stuff about each other because they're

812
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 3: not really impacted. Joelle, could you talk a little bit

813
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 3: about your memories of that era, And also we both

814
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 3: came up in the same time, like a decade ago,

815
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: writing journalism and everything, so could you talk a little

816
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 3: bit about your journey with that and kind of how

817
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 3: you've seen it shift and change.

818
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, I'm sort of inspired from Jason's take

819
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 8: to your update on what's happening now Friendly Bits, And

820
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 8: I believe it was in her Netflix documentary Pretend It's

821
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 8: a City she speaks about after the AIDS crisis.

822
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: Hang with me, guys. She could throw darts. That's what

823
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm saying. That's that's what I'm saying, Jason darts.

824
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

825
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 8: So she talks about like queer criticism being the front

826
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 8: leader for all criticism, right, Like, so hear me out.

827
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 8: If you look at New York specifically, if you look

828
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 8: at the types of art that are celebrated there, who's

829
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 8: making that art and then who's critiquing it? The loss

830
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 8: of nearly an entire generation of queer folks, and specifically

831
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 8: queer folks, we were thinking about art devastating to us

832
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 8: as a culture.

833
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 3: Right.

834
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 8: We do not to say that queer is the only perspective,

835
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 8: but just that this was a leader in one of

836
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 8: our largest cities that produces most.

837
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: Of our art, and it had an impact.

838
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 8: And to france point, that impact was really harsh criticism.

839
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 8: She was like, you could not step a toe out

840
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 8: of line and expect a quality review in a newspaper

841
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 8: in New York in the seventies because a queer man

842
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 8: was going to be like, no, I saw it, and

843
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 8: I'm gonna tell you about it. It's something certainly sucks, Yes,

844
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 8: it certainly we have something a lot less of.

845
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: There was a time.

846
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 8: You know, we come up at a really interesting time

847
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 8: because we come post magazines, but pre the death of

848
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 8: all like like, oh.

849
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: Magazines, I guess.

850
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 8: So it is a really strange bubble because you know,

851
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 8: our elders when we come into the industry were really frustrated.

852
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 8: They were like, we used to get paid so much

853
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 8: for articles you could.

854
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 3: Buy one hundreds of being a writer.

855
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: There were fabulous parties.

856
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 8: They would fly us out, like we had real access

857
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 8: to creators, not an hour, but like days of reinterviewing

858
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 8: a person, you know, multiple phone calls, so you could

859
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 8: get that kind of dip, deep rich, textured kind of

860
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 8: profiles we used to get all of the time. It

861
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 8: is really frustrating, I think to be somebody who cares

862
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 8: about and loves art to thou see, you know, and

863
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 8: I understand why studios have a incentive to just make

864
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 8: sure people like their films.

865
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: They want the most positive reviews.

866
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 8: When you turn to influencers, they do not know their worth,

867
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 8: they don't understand the industry, and they're willing to show up,

868
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 8: pay for themselves to be there, pay for themselves to

869
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 8: look good, pay for their own photos and stuff, post

870
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 8: them themselves, edited themselves, and they understand that the connection

871
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 8: to the studio needs to be a positive one, so

872
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 8: they're only going to tell you positive things. It really

873
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 8: kills our ability to understand what is within art beyond

874
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 8: what you just see at a service level.

875
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: Like a real genuine critic.

876
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 8: A Boo has this really great question, is professional criticism

877
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 8: more or less important than it was ten fifteen years ago.

878
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 8: I see it's much more important now than it's ever

879
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 8: been because we have so little quality of it around.

880
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 8: It is very difficult to find. And if you talked,

881
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 8: go ahead.

882
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: Oh you know, I was just gonna say, I would

883
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 3: also say I think that's why podcasts have become such

884
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: a huge space, because even if you have a podcast

885
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 3: where people are aligned with the kind of things you like,

886
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 3: aligned with your views, there's still going to be conversation

887
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 3: and argument on the podcast that allows differing opinions in

888
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 3: a way that I think we don't really see outside

889
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 3: of the traditional trade publishers, which, by the way, are

890
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: also often having to do packages with studios and stuff.

891
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 3: So also, it's not like we have appauling Kale anymore,

892
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 3: writing like scathing reviews of the Godfar or whatever. You know,

893
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 3: there's not a space for that. There is she like

894
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,479
Speaker 3: I thought she was, I thought she didn't like it

895
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 3: or something.

896
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 7: You know, ea, either way, either way she was.

897
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 3: She She loved to do a scathing she loved to

898
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 3: do a supporting and we rarely get to do either. Look,

899
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 3: I feel happy to say this now because it's been

900
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 3: many years since I had to rely on these kind

901
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 3: of gigs. But you know, I'll be real, Joelle. I'm

902
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: not sure if you ever came up with this, but

903
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be surprised. There was editors who tried to

904
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 3: change my review scores on reviews that I wrote. Oh

905
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 3: frequently tested that maybe it should be more or or

906
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 3: it should.

907
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 8: Be editor who hated my review of Hustlers. I was like,

908
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 8: I love this movie. I had so much money. It

909
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 8: was like, it can't it's because you're a tiff that

910
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 8: you like it, And I was like, I just really

911
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 8: genuinely enjoying this movie.

912
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 3: Leg It was legit like a massive Oscar movie that year,

913
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 3: so you were just on the tape. That's the thing

914
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 3: as well, is the lack of writers being given space

915
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 3: to be taste makers and instead having to dial in

916
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 3: the feelings for editorial edicts.

917
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 2: I will say that I think that several things have

918
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: converged to create this state of modern, very nice criticism.

919
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: And one is I think the the Gawker lawsuit made

920
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: everybody feel absolutely we gotta be careful. We gotta be

921
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 2: careful who we piss off now, Like I can't just

922
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: be mean to Elon Musk because it's fun. Now, I've

923
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: got to somehow fucking buttress it with like a legal

924
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 2: department that will let me call him a like a

925
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: lizard man or something like I can't just now he'll

926
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 2: swing for saying that. Two is I think the you know,

927
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: there's been a kind of slow momentum towards corporate consolidation

928
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: and less jobs, so there's you know, a general feeling

929
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 2: like I can't lose this job, right, which is why

930
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: Substack is. You know, one would expect it is such

931
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 2: a such a thriving place for people being able to

932
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: speak their minds. And two, I think that the you know,

933
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 2: we've talked about it a lot, but I think the

934
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 2: I think marvel success in movies in movie criticism agreed,

935
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: shook a lot of people, Like I know a lot

936
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 2: of critics who are like, I hate this movie, but

937
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: like can I I don't know when this tide is

938
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: going to end, if it's ever gonna end, and I

939
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: can't be the person being like another shit storm for Marvel.

940
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: And then the movie makes two billion dollars and that

941
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: goes on for five years. And so I think that,

942
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 2: you know, we are just in this place now where

943
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: it feels like to take a shot, a fair shot

944
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: as somebody who really deserves it. You've kind of got

945
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 2: to be like, what are the pros and cons where

946
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: in the past, you know, in past decades now, as

947
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 2: we're talking about a freaking bygone era at this point,

948
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: you could really fire off at the hip. And I

949
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: guess that's why the the Quentin Tarantino thing kind of

950
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: broke through a little bit for me. Not again that

951
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: not that's necessarily not the take, which I think is

952
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 2: is wrong and dumb, but like the the whole, like

953
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell that I'm gonna fucking tell you how

954
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 2: I really feel about this guy.

955
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 4: That is, you just don't it's not there anymore.

956
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 2: And I and I know we talked about like meanness

957
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,320
Speaker 2: and how we don't want to get into a Perez Hilton,

958
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: you know.

959
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 3: The bad actors of that particular.

960
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 2: Secury Knowles. And and by the way, I think Joelle,

961
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 2: that Perez situation is kind of an outgrowth of that

962
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 2: gay literati kind of culture in the bad, the bad

963
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,439
Speaker 2: range of it, like the negative range, but it's still

964
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 2: an outgrowth of that like ultimate truth teller, hand on

965
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: the on the on the steering wheel of culture, I'm

966
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: gonna tell you the truth, and that is, you know,

967
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: definitely a kind of style of that kind of maximalist

968
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 2: gay discourses like I'm just gonna be the meanest piece

969
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 2: of shit.

970
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: Like and because I can do it is because I'm

971
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 3: being honest, right, that's the argument. Now I will say

972
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 3: something else that I find really interesting here, and maybe

973
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 3: this is what we all need to start doing on

974
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 3: our articles or our sub steps if we want to

975
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 3: slam to someone, but do Moir whenever they post anything, right,

976
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 3: And I started to follow them because I wanted to know,

977
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,879
Speaker 3: like what does it look like to do that nowadays?

978
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 3: Like you can't just be like this bitch is fat

979
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 3: and draw like a pig face on her like Perez

980
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 3: would do, right, But like what they always put at

981
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: the bottom is they always put like nine times out

982
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 3: of ten they put like this is an un verified rumor,

983
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 3: we do not have the money to do that. And

984
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 3: these kind of these like legal disclaimers, which I find

985
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 3: really interesting but are a lot hard to do culturally.

986
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 3: And Jason, I'm actually think that you did such a

987
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 3: good job bringing up the consolidation of it all because

988
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 3: if we think about what's going on in England right

989
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 3: now with the girl guides not being allowed to let

990
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: trans people in because otherwise JK. Rowling will sue them,

991
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 3: this kind of idea insane. This kind of idea of

992
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 3: the all powerful, corporate rich person who can shut down

993
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 3: your opinion at any point, whether it's a studio or

994
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 3: a singular visionary or auta or whatever, is very real

995
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 3: to this perspective that we live in. And I do

996
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 3: think that part of what broke through was by Quentin

997
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,359
Speaker 3: Tarantino saying that it allowed other people to go, oh

998
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 3: thank god, I can be mean about him, like he's

999
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 3: being mean. I can be mean about it.

1000
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 2: I do you mention that, because I want to mention

1001
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 2: very quickly a opinion piece in the New York Times

1002
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: that ran like three weeks ago or so, a conversation

1003
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: between Ross tooth that and some conservative lady who's who

1004
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: Helen Andrews and Leah Libresco's sergeant who basically argue that,

1005
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: like liberal feminism ruined the workplace because and like all

1006
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 2: these other people say one thing about I just want

1007
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,240
Speaker 2: to say one thing about, like whisper networks and gossip

1008
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 2: and the consolidation of power. Whisper networks exist because people

1009
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: can't pursue justice through normal means, through their HR department,

1010
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 2: through their lawyers, through the courts, and so the only

1011
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: recourse they have is to go, hey, watch out for

1012
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:29,919
Speaker 2: that guy.

1013
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 4: He's a real piece of shit.

1014
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like and so I.

1015
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 2: Wish we could get back to that a little bit

1016
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 2: in some of the discourse, not necessarily just again being

1017
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,240
Speaker 2: mean for the sake of being mean or calling telling

1018
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 2: the truth said, but being like, you know, what is

1019
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: really happening, This is happening, or like you know, and

1020
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 2: I and and it's weird that Quentin is the person

1021
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: that made me miss it, but it's true.

1022
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 3: You know, it is weird. But I gotta say, I

1023
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 3: think maybe are Maybe what we're talking about here is

1024
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 3: there was a time when we felt like we could

1025
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 3: be the truth tell us. But some now with all

1026
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 3: the corporations and you know, it's getting back to a

1027
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 3: place where someone like Quentin Tarantino has to go on

1028
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 3: Brett Easton Ellis's podcast and get hyped up by another

1029
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: guy who maybe was on some kind of substance allegedly

1030
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 3: potentially and like and say something crazy like that to

1031
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 3: make us think, like, oh wait, we can call these

1032
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 3: motherfuckers out. Like you know, Elon Musk is gonna sue

1033
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 3: a kid who's stalking his private jet via open Internet protocol.

1034
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 3: But guess what, the kid's still doing an important duty,

1035
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 3: you know. So I think a good reminder is to

1036
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 3: like say what we're thinking, and even if we're inspired

1037
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 3: by dumb men saying dumb stuff they're thinking, we should

1038
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 3: be more honest to say the truth. Like I loved

1039
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 3: Joel your whole bit today about Hamnet and headed. There

1040
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 3: was so much truth to that. There was so much

1041
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 3: honesty about the way it made you feel like we

1042
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 3: need to be doing more of that at all times.

1043
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 3: And if that's saying, hey, this guy sucks and his

1044
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 3: movie sucks, maybe we've got to get back to that.

1045
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 3: I used to get so much hate mel for those

1046
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 3: kind of things, but sometimes you just got to say it.

1047
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 2: Then, final, final, final thing to tie this back and

1048
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 2: say something we originally wanted to talk about, which is

1049
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,760
Speaker 2: Five Nights at Freddy's too. The movie is getting absolutely

1050
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: savaged by the critics and which I get, you know,

1051
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: totally again and to tie it back to a booze

1052
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 2: comment like just criticism matter. I think five Nights is

1053
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: an interesting one because I mean clearly no in this

1054
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 2: particular case, but I think some other cases with Ken

1055
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 2: in some other cases yes, and some other cases no.

1056
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: But I think five Nights is interesting because here's what

1057
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 2: I think is going on with five Nights. My nephew,

1058
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 2: who is seven, loves Five Nights of Fred's. Loves like

1059
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 2: when he draws doodles. It's like Bonnie and Spring Bonnie

1060
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: and different characters from Five Nights of Freddie's.

1061
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 4: Who he's obsessed with.

1062
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,360
Speaker 2: He has never he's seen three minutes of the first

1063
00:56:58,400 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 2: five Nights of Freddy's.

1064
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 3: And was too scared and could not continue.

1065
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,919
Speaker 2: I never played the games, and I've never played the game,

1066
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 2: has only seen like little YouTube snippets, but is obsessed

1067
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 2: with it. And if you want to know why critics

1068
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 2: cannot touch Five Nights of Phays is because the audience

1069
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 2: for these movies one have never actually many of them,

1070
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: I would guess, have not ever seen like even twenty

1071
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 2: percent of the full narrative story through videos, games or

1072
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 2: whatever of this like it, or have seen maybe even

1073
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: a much smaller fraction of that. And two kids of

1074
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 2: that age, frankly don't know what's good and bad, have

1075
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 2: no opinions of their own because.

1076
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: They haven't seen anything.

1077
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: Everything's fucking amazing, yes, and have no ability to be like,

1078
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: that's good, that's bad, that's good storytelling, that's bad story

1079
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: and they're just like amazed by stuff.

1080
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 3: I think you are basically one hundred percent right on

1081
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 3: every point, because that is really the basis of how

1082
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 3: this is making money. But also I think and I

1083
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 3: went see the Five Nights of Freddy's movie, I thought

1084
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 3: it was fine. It's a three out five movie. I

1085
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 3: thought it was equally as good as the first one,

1086
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 3: if not a bit more scary, Like it's completely fine

1087
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 3: if you like kids horror, but the critics didn't like it.

1088
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 3: And I think it is also because one I respect

1089
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 3: speaking of directors saying stuff that they probably shouldn't have said,

1090
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 3: but that I respect. Emma Tommy. Throughout the director of

1091
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 3: Five Nights at Freddy's, rare female horror director who is

1092
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 3: allowed to direct her second successful movie, she has been

1093
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 3: saying throughout this, as have the cast ad as the crew,

1094
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 3: this is not for the critics. This is for the fans.

1095
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 3: We tried to make something the critics would like the

1096
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 3: first time, and the critics didn't really like it, but

1097
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 3: they thought it was okay, but the fans thought it

1098
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 3: was okay. So let's just make something the fans like.

1099
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 3: A lot of people say that, but I think in

1100
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 3: the case of Five Nights at Freddy's, they actually did it.

1101
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 3: Because one of the biggest critiques of the movie is

1102
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 3: it moves around so much. There's so much going on,

1103
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 3: it's like these little vignettes. It doesn't really make sense. Yeah, us,

1104
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 3: why because that's what every single kid who is going

1105
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: to see that movie watches on their YouTube. Every single day.

1106
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 3: They watch YouTube shots, they scroll through it, they see

1107
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 3: a video of pregnant Elsa, they see a video of

1108
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 3: spring Trap killing Quentin Tarantino or some shit like. These

1109
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 3: kids are seeing things and in vibing culture in ways

1110
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 3: you could not comprehend unless you are like me and

1111
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 3: Jason and have people around us who are young. This

1112
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 3: movie speaks to them because it shows some of the

1113
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 3: characters they want. It does jump scares, it doesn't for them,

1114
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 3: and because, as Jason pointed out, a lot of the

1115
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 3: kids have not actually played or seen Five Nights at Freddy's.

1116
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 3: The early games are just point and click games, so

1117
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 3: they're not exactly very enticing for a young audience. But

1118
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 3: what Five Nights at Freddie's has is a huge online

1119
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 3: fan base on YouTube where fans make their own content

1120
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 3: about the characters that is reimagined for a younger audience.

1121
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 3: There are Five Nights at Freddie's cartoons that a fan

1122
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 3: made that have no violence in their Five Nights at

1123
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 3: Freddie's songs that are so popular that not only a

1124
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 3: I had to listen than being performed fifty million times,

1125
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 3: but also the end of this movie has a song

1126
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 3: of Five Nights at Freddy's fan song that they bought

1127
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 3: the right song to put at the end of the movie,

1128
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 3: and that is what the kids are singing along to.

1129
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 3: There is an interaction and interactivity here. This is not

1130
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 3: made for critics. It's not really made for adults. I

1131
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 3: think it's made for a new audience, and I think

1132
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 3: that's just as valid as any other cinema.

1133
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: We're just saying.

1134
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 8: I think this is part of the problem with criticism

1135
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 8: as a whole today.

1136
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: It's lack of diversity amongst the critics.

1137
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 8: It's a thing we say the industry try to approve

1138
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 8: on on the back half of the twenty teens that

1139
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 8: has since really evaporated and dried up for all the

1140
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,959
Speaker 8: reasons Jason mentioned earlier. But I think if you had

1141
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 8: more of a youthful presence, if you had more of

1142
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 8: a diverse presence, things like the the box office for

1143
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 8: Minecraft would not have been a surprise to industry folks.

1144
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: I've been playing this since I could talk. I love

1145
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: this game. Of course, I'm gonna go see the movie.

1146
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 8: I think, you know, as we wrap up this conversation,

1147
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 8: I hope that if people can't find their way to subsect,

1148
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 8: that we find more places for folks to gather and

1149
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 8: receive criticism, because I think it makes your experience as

1150
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 8: a viewer, whether you're a super fan or a layman,

1151
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 8: much more rich and textual when you have critical minds

1152
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 8: debating out like what this means, what it represents, what

1153
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:22,959
Speaker 8: it says about our culture today, what it says about

1154
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 8: this artist trajectory and their past.

1155
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: Like you can really.

1156
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 8: Bring a whole new level of storytelling to any piece

1157
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 8: of art when you have critical eyes on it. So yeah,

1158
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 8: I really more diverse criticism. Seek it out, like, go

1159
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 8: find it, tell us your favorites. I want to know

1160
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 8: who you guys are loving exactly, because we too, I

1161
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 8: have a lack of diversity, especially when it comes to

1162
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 8: school critics.

1163
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 1: I know the old heads and I know us.

1164
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 3: I've been trying for a long time to pitch this

1165
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 3: idea of like a twelve year old reviews to places,

1166
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 3: and people just can't get into it as a written piece.

1167
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 3: But I'm like, I will take a twelve year old,

1168
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 3: I will watch the movie with them, I will translate

1169
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 3: their thoughts. But for example, Minecraft, the kid I took

1170
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 3: with me sat next to me and said, this will

1171
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 3: make almost a billion dollars and every single critic and

1172
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 3: the fit I was like, who was sat next to us?

1173
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,840
Speaker 3: And guess what the motherfucker was right? He was right?

1174
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 3: And yeah, so more diverse criticism. Let's keep doing it, guys.

1175
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 3: I loved having this conversation with Fun. Yeah, Fun, And

1176
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 3: I know he's pretty good. He's good, he's fine.

1177
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:30,040
Speaker 2: It's weird that PTA cast him for two characters in

1178
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 2: the same movie.

1179
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 4: That's it. That's what's weird to me.

1180
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 3: On Pretty Sad Podcast.

1181
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 2: That part is confused always will be weird to me.

1182
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 2: That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. We'll be

1183
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 2: back tomorrow with the biggest news of the week. X

1184
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 2: ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Knight

1185
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

1186
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.

1187
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 4: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

1188
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wack.

1189
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1190
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

1191
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and

1192
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator