WEBVTT - Nat Adderley Jr. 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:19.850 The Questlove Show is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to 0:00:20.390 --> 0:00:23.370 another episode of the Questlove Show. I'm going to do 0:00:23.410 --> 0:00:29.690 something a little different. Let's go back in time. It's 1982. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.420 And for those that follow the show and follow me 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.300 and whatnot, you know my story and my lineage and 0:00:37.330 --> 0:00:40.230 my family and all that. But actually my father started 0:00:40.330 --> 0:00:44.410 giving me formal drum lessons in drumming school in Philadelphia 0:00:44.430 --> 0:00:49.650 in 82 when I was 11. And my teacher and 0:00:49.909 --> 0:00:52.170 I are having a conversation. He puts a record on 0:00:52.210 --> 0:00:54.330 for me and he's like, I want you to listen 0:00:54.370 --> 0:00:58.290 to this. And all right, so imagine that someone's pulling 0:00:58.330 --> 0:01:01.240 out a record And they play this for you. So 0:01:01.460 --> 0:01:03.840 this is the record that my drum teacher plays for me. 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.030 And what's notable is the actual introduction of the record. 0:01:08.330 --> 0:01:09.750 Now I'm 12 years old listening to this. 0:01:09.770 --> 0:01:19.350 I haven't. 0:01:19.430 --> 0:01:25.240 Uh-uh. Wait, no, no. 0:01:25.660 --> 0:01:26.160 No, come on. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.179 You got to get your flowers. No, man. You got 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:28.940 to get your flowers. 0:01:29.050 --> 0:01:32.370 Okay, I can't hear this. I can't hear this. I 0:01:32.450 --> 0:01:34.350 can't hear this. 0:01:34.390 --> 0:01:36.750 Is that on? Yeah, okay, okay. I'll take it down. 0:01:36.770 --> 0:01:40.669 I'll take it down. So clearly we're dealing with another 0:01:40.810 --> 0:01:44.130 Amir here, a person that can't take his flowers. I 0:01:44.150 --> 0:01:47.970 can't hear this. Okay, I stopped it just to make 0:01:48.010 --> 0:01:50.610 you comfortable. No, but this is what you don't know. 0:01:51.500 --> 0:01:54.620 Like that made an impression on me. And then when 0:01:54.660 --> 0:01:58.030 I came back the next week, he played me other 0:01:58.060 --> 0:02:02.110 compositions of yours. And I'm like, you know, as someone 0:02:02.130 --> 0:02:05.290 who's born in the 70s, I arrived on this earth 0:02:06.130 --> 0:02:08.970 kind of equipped with the Jackson 5, but the Jackson 0:02:08.970 --> 0:02:11.990 5 were so polished that I never went in the 0:02:12.050 --> 0:02:14.790 mind state of like, oh, this is someone my age 0:02:14.850 --> 0:02:18.090 or younger than me singing. However, anyone else who was 0:02:18.130 --> 0:02:23.920 a kid that was making music music that was non-bubblegum 0:02:24.220 --> 0:02:27.320 and serious. I don't know, it took reverence to. And 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.940 the thing is, is that I want to know, before 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.900 I even introduce who you are, this is my cold open. 0:02:33.500 --> 0:02:35.840 I'll get to the introduction later. But the name of 0:02:35.860 --> 0:02:37.930 the song is called The Price You Got to Pay 0:02:37.970 --> 0:02:44.530 to Be Free. I want to know what circumstances occurred 0:02:44.570 --> 0:02:49.570 in your life that as a 14-year-old, you had to 0:02:50.139 --> 0:02:53.900 bear the weight of the world on your shoulders to write. Like, 0:02:54.220 --> 0:02:58.580 this is not just a cutesy song by a preteen. 0:02:59.460 --> 0:03:05.400 These are like much needed words, especially after the fallout 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:09.140 of 1968, the assassinations of Martin Luther King, the Malcolm 0:03:09.300 --> 0:03:12.919 X and Mecca Evers and everyone, like the bloodshed of 0:03:12.980 --> 0:03:14.800 the 60s. And now it's 1970 and you sing the 0:03:14.820 --> 0:03:21.859 song where It's rare to hear anger. You know, at 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:26.580 the most, Curtis Mayfield will present the situation. Marvin Gaye 0:03:26.660 --> 0:03:32.150 might scoff at the government or whatever. I mean, you're 0:03:32.150 --> 0:03:34.830 14 years old and you're allowed to sing the word bullshit. 0:03:35.810 --> 0:03:39.090 I won't hear that until five years later when Ronald 0:03:39.250 --> 0:03:42.650 Isley says the same thing on Fight the Power. What 0:03:42.770 --> 0:03:48.120 circumstances made you write that song? You should be very 0:03:48.190 --> 0:03:49.790 proud of that song. I know you're trying to duck 0:03:49.830 --> 0:03:53.770 and dodge, you know, and everyone hates their first recordings, 0:03:54.070 --> 0:03:57.890 but that made an impression on me. So what made 0:03:57.910 --> 0:03:58.410 you write it? 0:03:58.670 --> 0:03:58.950 Wow. 0:03:59.310 --> 0:04:00.790 And you got to talk with the microphone, make sure. 0:04:01.090 --> 0:04:01.410 Hello. 0:04:04.310 --> 0:04:06.850 I will get to your introduction after you, because I 0:04:06.890 --> 0:04:10.870 got it. That song is the entry of my 12-year-old 0:04:10.950 --> 0:04:14.220 mind saying, I got to be just as serious as 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.060 a musician. And that's what led me here. This is 0:04:17.110 --> 0:04:17.850 why I wanted you here. 0:04:18.110 --> 0:04:19.750 Wow. Hello, Amir. 0:04:20.089 --> 0:04:21.790 How you doing? See, you thought it was going to 0:04:21.810 --> 0:04:24.090 be a whole nother show. You weren't expecting this. 0:04:24.350 --> 0:04:26.270 Oh, I was not. I was not. 0:04:26.850 --> 0:04:28.609 We're different here. Wow. 0:04:29.050 --> 0:04:31.570 Well, I'll tell you. Well, I was, obviously I was 0:04:31.610 --> 0:04:34.750 listening to that. That was my favorites of Curtis, Marvin, 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.500 back at the time. But I got to tell you, man, 0:04:38.660 --> 0:04:41.919 at the time, You want to know what made me 0:04:42.180 --> 0:04:43.080 right there? That was what made me. 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:44.120 Your life experiences from. 0:04:44.140 --> 0:04:46.200 Yeah, what made me right there, because I was listening. 0:04:46.220 --> 0:04:51.050 That was my favorite music at that time. I was living. 0:04:51.390 --> 0:04:54.930 I was living in the world. I was experiencing what 0:04:54.970 --> 0:04:58.589 I was experiencing. But the main thing and the main 0:04:58.650 --> 0:05:02.250 reason I would say that I was experiencing it was 0:05:02.380 --> 0:05:06.760 because I was loving that music. I was experiencing the world... 0:05:08.779 --> 0:05:12.760 through that music and listening to those lyrics more than 0:05:12.790 --> 0:05:16.630 I was experiencing it through my everyday life. I was 0:05:16.710 --> 0:05:23.450 living a blessed life. And school and music school and 0:05:23.570 --> 0:05:29.490 my friends, you know, I wasn't living those lyrics that 0:05:29.510 --> 0:05:32.730 I was hearing. I was living in Teaneck, New Jersey. 0:05:32.910 --> 0:05:36.010 Other kids your age are like, I mean, there's boogie 0:05:36.070 --> 0:05:41.919 fever and bubblegum soul and dancing machine. Literally, you're speaking 0:05:41.940 --> 0:05:45.520 of like the bloodshed, the anger that the nation feels. 0:05:45.980 --> 0:05:46.260 Yes. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.480 And it was enough to make your uncles very serious. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:56.120 Sure, sure. I'm trying to tell you that's what was 0:05:56.220 --> 0:06:00.260 in my heart and in my brain. But what I'm 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:07.100 saying is that once that happened, I... Absolutely ignored all 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:12.679 of that. It became, and I don't say this often 0:06:12.740 --> 0:06:15.140 because we don't talk about it often. That was a shock. 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.230 I haven't heard that in years. I don't listen to it. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:24.100 Nobody puts it on. We don't discuss it. Man, you 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:29.370 don't understand. We just met. Right. I'm sorry for it. 0:06:29.850 --> 0:06:31.250 We don't talk about it. 0:06:31.850 --> 0:06:32.190 Really? 0:06:32.550 --> 0:06:38.450 Man, very briefly, if you knew me, if you were 0:06:38.490 --> 0:06:44.560 backstage with me all those Luther Vandross years, you would 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:51.280 know we don't talk about my dad and uncle ever backstage. 0:06:51.420 --> 0:06:55.120 They know that we just don't do that. We talk 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.780 about everything I've done since then. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:06:59.820 I got you. 0:06:59.940 --> 0:07:02.300 I would say everything else. 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.279 So people just start with never too much and- Basically- 0:07:05.380 --> 0:07:08.380 Don't realize- Yeah, yes. 0:07:08.500 --> 0:07:12.470 I don't know why, but that's just something that we 0:07:12.530 --> 0:07:17.670 never talk about. My friends from high school, my friends 0:07:17.710 --> 0:07:21.610 in the neighborhood, I think we learned early on to 0:07:21.690 --> 0:07:25.000 just never bring that up. That's just something that I 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.400 just never wanted to talk about, and that is- When 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.240 that started, that record is, I would say, when that started. 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.540 This is so funny. My best buddy from high school, 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.980 he just called me on the way over here. He's 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.820 expecting me to call him. Hello, Steven. He's expecting me 0:07:44.860 --> 0:07:47.620 to call him when I leave here because I haven't 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:53.100 talked to him in forever. He learned when I was 0:07:53.100 --> 0:07:56.840 15 and came back from that that we don't talk 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:58.700 about that. This is not something. 0:07:59.590 --> 0:08:01.850 You're really about living in the present. 0:08:02.370 --> 0:08:05.950 I never talked about that. I went to school. I 0:08:06.010 --> 0:08:10.570 hung out with my friends in TNA. We ran around. 0:08:10.930 --> 0:08:17.040 I chased the girls. I did what high school... Kids do, 0:08:17.140 --> 0:08:20.140 which we won't discuss here. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:21.820 Wait. You answered my question. 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:22.700 Did I? 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:24.440 Now let me take care of business. 0:08:24.540 --> 0:08:24.820 Good. 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:30.520 Okay. Our guest today. Seriously. Did we do that? Okay. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:35.470 Our guest today is giving us the honor of letting 0:08:35.730 --> 0:08:40.190 us give him his flowers. It's so funny how when 0:08:40.230 --> 0:08:43.210 this used on the other foot, because very much like 0:08:43.270 --> 0:08:46.160 the last four minutes I just witnessed, In my 10 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:50.520 years at this platform, I'm world famous for ducking and 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:55.800 dodging compliments and memories and your first albums and all 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:00.900 those things. And so I understand you're being slightly uncomfortable 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.320 in revisiting parts of your past. However, I also think 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:09.400 it's important as people that we celebrate ourselves. And you 0:09:10.110 --> 0:09:14.429 celebrating yourself will be an example to someone watching that like, okay, 0:09:14.790 --> 0:09:16.949 Like I had to watch a few people get their 0:09:16.990 --> 0:09:19.650 flowers and be comfortable with it. It's hard. I know 0:09:19.670 --> 0:09:22.329 it's hard to receive love, but you deserve it. I 0:09:22.350 --> 0:09:26.450 will say that our guest today really is an unsung hero. 0:09:26.830 --> 0:09:32.220 I'm a person that is an extreme record credit. I 0:09:32.460 --> 0:09:35.620 don't want to. He's going to hate this episode. You're 0:09:35.700 --> 0:09:36.819 not going to hate this episode. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:37.920 I don't want to. 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:39.079 Okay. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.050 He's looking at me. I don't want to. Look. Turn away. 0:09:43.190 --> 0:09:43.650 Turn away. 0:09:43.690 --> 0:09:44.150 You got it. 0:09:44.250 --> 0:09:44.530 Okay. 0:09:44.820 --> 0:09:45.900 Would it help if it's just. 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:46.640 Will he stop? 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:48.720 I'm not. Let me just, let me say what your 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.660 name is so that the people know. Our guest today 0:09:51.900 --> 0:09:56.710 helped craft what, I guess I could say it's elegant soul, 0:09:57.370 --> 0:10:00.920 educated soul, if you will. Of course, it goes without 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.500 saying that his masterful collaborations with the one and only, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:10.260 I have to say that Luther Ronzoni, Luther Ronzoni Vandross. 0:10:10.300 --> 0:10:11.540 That is his name. 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:16.250 Is unparalleled. And I have so many questions about things 0:10:16.290 --> 0:10:18.849 behind the scenes and the crafting of these classic albums, 0:10:19.450 --> 0:10:24.240 also touring. And the fact that songwriting, producing, and arranging, 0:10:24.940 --> 0:10:27.730 he's been doing this since as a child. I was 0:10:27.750 --> 0:10:29.680 going to go with another song, which he was 11 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.470 years old. What I just played to you was when 0:10:31.510 --> 0:10:35.150 he was 15. But he's made many appearances. Speaking of 0:10:35.190 --> 0:10:37.810 his lineage, not to scoff at, of course, his father 0:10:37.890 --> 0:10:43.090 is his namesake. And his uncle is the legendary Julian 0:10:43.110 --> 0:10:48.030 Cannonball Adderley. And it's just not lost on me, the 0:10:48.130 --> 0:10:52.930 humor of... His debut album, which came out last year, 0:10:53.910 --> 0:10:57.860 humorously titled Took So Long. Yes, it did take so long. 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.920 And for someone that's been crafting music since 11, I 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.880 too wonder why it took forever to come up with 0:11:05.900 --> 0:11:08.829 the idea of your own solo material. This is definitely 0:11:08.910 --> 0:11:11.490 one of my dream interviews. I promise to make this 0:11:11.910 --> 0:11:15.089 very comfortable. Nat Adelie Jr., thank you for doing me 0:11:15.210 --> 0:11:18.070 the honor and the pleasure of having you on this platform. 0:11:18.090 --> 0:11:18.500 Thank you, man. 0:11:18.510 --> 0:11:19.709 I'm going to ask you an easy question. 0:11:19.730 --> 0:11:20.670 Thank you, man. 0:11:21.090 --> 0:11:25.390 What was your first musical memory in life? Your first 0:11:25.460 --> 0:11:30.340 time that your memory will let you remember something musical? 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.440 All right. Well, you just mentioned it, so I'll go there. 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:35.679 Okay. What is it? 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:41.660 It is sitting in the basement, messing around with some chords, 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.840 some fourth chords that you know what I'm talking about. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:47.520 The audience may not, but they were. 0:11:47.830 --> 0:11:48.510 These are music experts. 0:11:48.590 --> 0:11:58.230 Fourth. Just parallel fourths. And my uncle was upstairs. I 0:11:58.290 --> 0:12:05.650 was 11 or so. They were upstairs and Cannonball came down, 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.559 thought that sounded cute, and came down four and 11 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:10.000 year olds. 0:12:10.950 --> 0:12:13.080 Were you playing like heart and soul or just like. 0:12:13.100 --> 0:12:16.320 I don't know what it was, just parallel force. He 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.600 came down, thought it sounded cute for an 11-year-old. And 0:12:19.900 --> 0:12:23.900 the next thing I knew, they did indeed record that 0:12:24.020 --> 0:12:26.970 song that I was messing around with. 0:12:26.990 --> 0:12:29.110 Oh, wait. I wasn't expecting that. I thought it was 0:12:29.150 --> 0:12:30.950 just like encourage you to go on and. 0:12:31.429 --> 0:12:35.250 Practice, young man. No, and you asked me for my 0:12:35.370 --> 0:12:41.100 earliest memory, and that would be my earliest... Musical memory, 0:12:41.380 --> 0:12:47.140 I guess, was that before I even started taking lessons? 0:12:48.140 --> 0:12:51.250 I think so, because I did start at the piano 0:12:51.309 --> 0:12:55.450 just plunking around. I did have an ear early on 0:12:55.570 --> 0:12:59.270 for picking out tunes that I heard. I could find 0:12:59.309 --> 0:13:02.429 them on the piano. I don't know how young I was, 0:13:02.490 --> 0:13:06.430 six or seven or something like that, picking out by ear. 0:13:07.170 --> 0:13:10.090 So anyway, so that may have been my earliest memory. 0:13:10.550 --> 0:13:13.929 What does your house look like? What is it to 0:13:14.110 --> 0:13:17.340 grow up in Nat Adderley Sr. 0:13:17.340 --> 0:13:18.020 's household? 0:13:18.300 --> 0:13:21.679 Like, is this a thing where like, oh, miles might 0:13:21.740 --> 0:13:22.780 come by or like. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:29.500 Well, not miles. Well, uh... Dion might stop by. Nancy. 0:13:29.620 --> 0:13:30.760 Jersey president. 0:13:30.780 --> 0:13:35.410 Might stop by. Yeah, yeah, the Jersey folks. But not 0:13:35.490 --> 0:13:40.830 for music necessarily being on. It was because the peanut 0:13:41.190 --> 0:13:42.890 was happening around the table. 0:13:43.380 --> 0:13:43.859 Game night. 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:48.060 Oh, yeah, yeah. The cards were flying around and cussing 0:13:48.300 --> 0:13:49.000 and hollering. 0:13:49.020 --> 0:13:50.020 I'll cut you. 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.820 Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. It was horrible. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.939 Who typically would be in these card games? 0:13:56.120 --> 0:14:00.160 Oh, oh, oh, Nancy, Holland, my mama and daddy, and Cannon, 0:14:00.210 --> 0:14:04.550 if he was there, they all go cooking. My sister 0:14:04.590 --> 0:14:07.699 and I are getting up. trying to get breakfast, trying. 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:08.240 To go to school. 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.900 And they're still playing? They're still playing. They're still playing cards. 0:14:12.300 --> 0:14:15.000 And we're like, can we get some breakfast? It's time 0:14:15.020 --> 0:14:18.070 to go to school, Mom. Can we get an egg 0:14:18.140 --> 0:14:23.870 or something this morning? The bus is outside waiting. It's 0:14:23.910 --> 0:14:26.290 time to go to school. So anyway, so it was... 0:14:26.670 --> 0:14:29.690 Kind of like that. Not music all over the place 0:14:30.050 --> 0:14:31.460 like you might think. It was that. 0:14:31.510 --> 0:14:32.360 This is a better answer. 0:14:32.700 --> 0:14:39.440 It was like that or games. We loved Scrabble for 0:14:39.580 --> 0:14:44.960 watching them on TV or playing them. If it wasn't cards, 0:14:44.980 --> 0:14:47.580 it was Scrabble or those kind of games. 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.800 Speaking of which, ladies and gentlemen, the next move is 0:14:50.850 --> 0:14:53.290 on the Do You Want More channel. My game show. 0:14:53.310 --> 0:14:56.290 All right. Plug. I got to do that. Thank you 0:14:56.330 --> 0:14:58.990 so much for that. I hear a lot about Jersey. 0:14:59.450 --> 0:15:04.100 I've heard Sissy Houston's version of Jersey. I've heard like 0:15:05.180 --> 0:15:09.380 pre-riot Jersey. What was it like? Like you mentioned T-Neck. 0:15:10.180 --> 0:15:13.500 In my mind, that was the coolest logo on an 0:15:13.620 --> 0:15:17.360 Isley Brothers record. But what was T-Neck, New Jersey like? 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.200 Was it just like New York light? Like, okay, it's 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:21.980 20 minutes away from the city and we can get 0:15:22.020 --> 0:15:22.660 there or. 0:15:23.100 --> 0:15:30.760 No, it was our own little... I mean, growing up, 0:15:31.700 --> 0:15:35.640 Teaneck was huge. Going back now, it's amazing. It feels 0:15:35.900 --> 0:15:36.960 so small. 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:39.660 But back then, it was. 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.680 Back then, it was the world. I mean, speaking of 0:15:42.710 --> 0:15:47.870 the Isleys, there were two blocks around the corner. Tanya 0:15:47.910 --> 0:15:49.810 was a couple of grades ahead. 0:15:51.150 --> 0:15:52.390 Your sister's older? 0:15:52.570 --> 0:15:53.370 Tanya Isley. 0:15:53.550 --> 0:15:54.270 Oh, Tanya, okay. 0:15:54.290 --> 0:15:57.580 Tanya Isley was a couple of grades ahead. Okay. Riondo, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.080 we called him Dodo. He was a couple of grades 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:08.940 behind me. Tanya had a boyfriend in Englewood. It was 0:16:08.980 --> 0:16:12.580 really Teaneck and Englewood. So a bunch of folks lived 0:16:12.620 --> 0:16:16.120 in Englewood also. And she had a boyfriend in Englewood. 0:16:16.260 --> 0:16:19.640 So the Englewood girls came to Teaneck High to look 0:16:19.660 --> 0:16:25.170 for Tanya to beat her up. Anyway. Okay. Okay. Did 0:16:25.370 --> 0:16:27.950 he ask me to describe T-Nake and Englewood growing up? 0:16:28.770 --> 0:16:30.810 I got what I, I got what, it's worth the 0:16:30.830 --> 0:16:33.150 price of admission. You did ask, didn't you? I'm with it. 0:16:33.170 --> 0:16:34.820 So it was a bunch of fun. 0:16:35.220 --> 0:16:38.479 You know, you and the music are also becoming of 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.280 age in which like James Brown's introducing like a lot 0:16:42.300 --> 0:16:45.739 of revolutionary ideas that never been in music before. Some 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.630 jazz artists might have to add a little funk into 0:16:49.670 --> 0:16:53.770 their repertoire and not swing as much. Actually, your uncles were, 0:16:54.210 --> 0:16:57.060 in my opinion, good at adapting to that based on 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.479 the amount of sampling that we did from their 70s work. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.699 But in general, and as a young person, were you 0:17:04.740 --> 0:17:07.790 living a duplicitous life? Did you have to be serious jazz, 0:17:07.810 --> 0:17:11.389 but then behind their backs, also listen to James Brown 0:17:11.470 --> 0:17:14.590 and the stuff that people your age would listen to? 0:17:15.250 --> 0:17:20.389 I would say there were actually no restrictions in my life. 0:17:21.900 --> 0:17:27.000 I mean, we loved all the gospel. We dug all 0:17:27.020 --> 0:17:32.240 the James Browns. Definitely had all that going on. All 0:17:32.300 --> 0:17:36.080 the jazz. Obviously, you know, we did both sides of that. 0:17:36.780 --> 0:17:41.010 I was doing the European thing. I was taking the lessons, 0:17:41.660 --> 0:17:45.050 all that. So that was going on all day. I mean, 0:17:45.070 --> 0:17:49.170 I didn't quit taking the lessons until past high school. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.020 In terms of studying classical music? Yeah, I was still 0:17:53.060 --> 0:17:57.139 doing that. I guess I quit after 10th grade. I 0:17:57.180 --> 0:17:57.780 was still, yeah. 0:17:57.900 --> 0:17:59.780 Is it because you mastered it? 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:06.899 Let me see. I was going to Juilliard until prep division. Yeah. 0:18:07.140 --> 0:18:10.830 Until Manhattan School of Music took over their building uptown. 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.210 So I stayed with my teacher and the building. Okay. 0:18:17.090 --> 0:18:20.030 My teacher stayed uptown because I was in Teaneck. Got you. 0:18:20.190 --> 0:18:22.990 By the George Washington Bridge. So I stayed with my 0:18:23.030 --> 0:18:25.590 teacher and the building. So I stayed with Manhattan School 0:18:25.609 --> 0:18:28.490 of Music. And then, so that was going on in 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:29.000 my house. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:30.260 And this is just high school years. 0:18:30.300 --> 0:18:33.280 You're taking events. Until 10th grade. And then I guess 0:18:33.380 --> 0:18:35.560 I quit. I went to music and art. You know, 0:18:35.619 --> 0:18:39.660 with Lisa Fisher and Marcus Miller and Ray Chu and 0:18:40.220 --> 0:18:40.560 all that. 0:18:41.060 --> 0:18:45.090 I'm curious about something. So there's also a sect of musicians. 0:18:45.180 --> 0:18:49.379 And these are usually people that are born between 45 0:18:49.380 --> 0:18:53.260 and 55 that come on the show that are by 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:57.680 this time, like, you know, by the time 1971 rolls around, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.050 you know, they're teenagers, 16, 17, 18 years old. And 0:19:01.070 --> 0:19:04.810 they all have kind of a come to Jesus moment 0:19:05.369 --> 0:19:08.330 when they describe like the first time they heard music 0:19:08.369 --> 0:19:12.750 of my mind, because it was such a, a sprawling difference. 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.800 Was there an album or something that just cracked your 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.730 head open in terms of like, have a purpose in 0:19:19.790 --> 0:19:22.240 life to create and do this? 0:19:22.260 --> 0:19:30.439 I can't think of that. I just remember growing up, 0:19:30.660 --> 0:19:36.730 I just loved the Beatles and Motown. I just remember 0:19:36.750 --> 0:19:40.770 at the time and I wish I was, I mean, 0:19:40.790 --> 0:19:42.870 when I first started writing, I said, ooh, I just 0:19:42.910 --> 0:19:44.960 came along a little bit too late. I just love 0:19:44.980 --> 0:19:48.340 the Motown. I just love Smokey and the Temptations. I 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.590 just love those songs. You know, I said, that's the 0:19:51.619 --> 0:19:57.030 period that I really, really loved. And, you know, and 0:19:57.070 --> 0:19:59.570 the Beatles. And I love the Philly stuff coming out 0:19:59.590 --> 0:20:02.070 of that. So, no, I just loved all that stuff. 0:20:02.090 --> 0:20:04.590 And then Stevie and stuff. You know, and then the jazz. 0:20:04.650 --> 0:20:08.280 I mean, my first thing I loved and recognized was 0:20:08.340 --> 0:20:12.369 McCoy and Coltrane and And then so, you know, it 0:20:12.390 --> 0:20:16.020 was just all mixed up. No, there wasn't one particular 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:18.980 thing I want to say. Then I just fell in 0:20:19.020 --> 0:20:23.420 love with Herbie and Chick back then. No, no one 0:20:23.580 --> 0:20:24.300 particular thing. 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.250 At what point did you realize like the lineage you 0:20:28.270 --> 0:20:30.810 came from? Like at one point, it's just like your 0:20:30.850 --> 0:20:34.190 uncle and your dad. And oh, this person's here and 0:20:34.210 --> 0:20:37.540 that person's here. But at what point did you realize, like, 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.439 this is a very rare situation that I'm in, in which. 0:20:42.420 --> 0:20:43.430 You're not getting it yet. 0:20:43.890 --> 0:20:45.230 You just never realized it? 0:20:45.830 --> 0:20:48.290 I came back from recording The Price You Got to 0:20:48.350 --> 0:20:54.490 Pay to Be Free and ignored that for the rest 0:20:54.770 --> 0:21:00.300 of time and just went about my teenage life, never 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.760 mentioning that. I went to college and. 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.200 And I started using my middle name. There are a 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.760 couple of people from my freshman year that still call 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:19.119 me Eddie. That's my middle name. Edwin is my middle name. 0:21:19.869 --> 0:21:25.710 So would you have preferred not to have been thrusted 0:21:25.770 --> 0:21:28.580 on stage like, here's my 11-year-old. Hit it. 0:21:29.070 --> 0:21:31.880 Oh, I don't. I can't say. I don't know about 0:21:32.190 --> 0:21:35.200 all that. I'm just saying that I'm me. It all 0:21:36.180 --> 0:21:40.080 became a part of who I am. I can't say 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.060 all that. I mean, I went to college. I joined 0:21:45.140 --> 0:21:49.480 a band. All that became a part of who I 0:21:49.619 --> 0:21:53.609 am as a person, how I think politically. Obviously, that's 0:21:54.570 --> 0:21:56.370 part of who I am. That certainly is a part 0:21:56.390 --> 0:21:59.360 of who I became as a. as a college student, 0:21:59.460 --> 0:22:02.540 oh my gosh, I wanted to major. That is a 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.940 whole part of who I am. That was who I 0:22:05.980 --> 0:22:10.170 wanted to graduate as. I didn't end up doing that, 0:22:10.210 --> 0:22:15.190 but that was what I wanted to be. So anyway, 0:22:15.830 --> 0:22:21.250 and then, oh my gosh, that defined who I became 0:22:21.330 --> 0:22:25.190 as a musician. I was still a jazz person, I guess, 0:22:26.130 --> 0:22:33.030 in college. But joining the band, when did I join 0:22:33.050 --> 0:22:34.869 the band with Luther? It's still early with me in 0:22:34.890 --> 0:22:36.450 my memory. You know I'm on this. 0:22:36.450 --> 0:22:38.430 81, you would have been. Let me see. 0:22:38.450 --> 0:22:40.160 Let me see. When did I meet? Well, I met 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:44.980 Luther in a band in the basement of the Apollo Theater. 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.370 Were you part of Listen, My Brother? Yes. You were 0:22:48.380 --> 0:22:49.270 part of that? Yes. 0:22:49.510 --> 0:22:50.590 That's where I met Luther, yes. 0:23:02.609 --> 0:23:04.609 So here's the weird thing. I don't know how much 0:23:04.650 --> 0:23:07.350 you know about my history. You know, six years ago, 0:23:07.890 --> 0:23:12.350 I got to, out of nowhere, reluctantly at the time, 0:23:12.609 --> 0:23:16.060 to direct a movie called Summer of Soul, which was 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:17.860 about the Harlem Cultural Festival. 0:23:18.460 --> 0:23:19.100 Summer of Soul. 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:25.780 And, you know, I'm going through all the producer's notes. Like, literally, 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.610 the basement is a time capsule. of that period in 0:23:29.609 --> 0:23:31.909 1969 with all the notes, all the production notes, all 0:23:31.930 --> 0:23:35.590 the producer notes, all the correspondence back and forth, everything's 0:23:35.630 --> 0:23:39.170 in one thing. And the one thing I discovered, you know, 0:23:39.190 --> 0:23:42.270 because it was supposed to be six weekends of entertainment 0:23:42.290 --> 0:23:47.379 and whatnot. And the one thing I discovered was that 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:52.440 the camera crew that is going to film these six 0:23:52.500 --> 0:23:57.250 weeks of the Harlem cultural festival, they're only, available for 0:23:57.290 --> 0:24:00.050 the first five weeks. So then there's a whole round 0:24:00.090 --> 0:24:04.970 of correspondence of, well, who's going to have to eat 0:24:05.010 --> 0:24:07.910 the sacrifice and not be taped and preserved for history 0:24:08.410 --> 0:24:11.690 because we don't have a camera crew. And so there's 0:24:11.730 --> 0:24:15.350 a decision that, okay, we're going to dedicate a day 0:24:15.410 --> 0:24:17.550 or a weekend to all the local acts in New 0:24:17.590 --> 0:24:23.460 York City to perform. And we just won't, we'll Photographed them, 0:24:23.500 --> 0:24:27.520 but they won't be preserved on tape because the camera 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:32.340 crew has given a commitment already to this brand new 0:24:32.380 --> 0:24:37.109 television show that's making its debut on PBS, which is 0:24:37.190 --> 0:24:43.489 called Sesame Street. And so they decide, initially, Listen My 0:24:43.510 --> 0:24:47.610 Brother and other local area acts were going to be 0:24:47.750 --> 0:24:51.770 on the first weekend of of Harlem Cultural Festival, but 0:24:51.790 --> 0:24:54.169 then they decided, wait a minute, because we got the 0:24:54.210 --> 0:24:56.990 Fifth Dimension now and they just committed, how about we 0:24:57.030 --> 0:24:59.580 put them in that slot and then we'll put the 0:24:59.619 --> 0:25:02.399 local people the last week of it. And so you 0:25:02.420 --> 0:25:05.720 guys never, I've seen photos of Liz and my brother 0:25:05.780 --> 0:25:09.820 performing at the Harlem Cultural Festival, but there's no audio 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.670 or video of it. But of course, the other thing 0:25:12.730 --> 0:25:15.390 is that you guys wind up being on the pilot 0:25:15.990 --> 0:25:19.899 of Sesame Street. performing the number song or whatever. 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:20.120 ABC. 0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:25.640 Yeah, whatever song it was. How did that idea come about, like, 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:31.199 as far as this 20-person, 20 groups with more than 0:25:31.200 --> 0:25:33.800 20 members? Like, was that just normal back then, or? 0:25:34.380 --> 0:25:36.300 Oh, I don't know. Well, Voices of East Harlem was 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:36.960 the first one. 0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:37.280 Oh. 0:25:37.900 --> 0:25:38.700 Oh, my God. 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:40.899 I did not know that one. That's major. 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.700 Yeah, that was first, and they were more popular, I guess, 0:25:43.980 --> 0:25:44.500 at the time. 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:44.590 Yes. 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:46.180 But then Listen to My Brother, to me. 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:46.520 Mm-hmm. 0:25:46.990 --> 0:25:50.239 All the singers came out of that one. 0:25:50.820 --> 0:25:52.859 Who notable was in Voices of Arlo? 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:55.139 Robin Clark and Fonzie. 0:25:55.540 --> 0:25:57.200 Fonzie Thornton, the great Fonzie Thornton. 0:25:57.260 --> 0:25:58.880 And some more. I can't, you know, this is early. 0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:01.830 I can't think, but you know, at the time I 0:26:01.869 --> 0:26:04.730 thought at the time Fonzie was the one, I mean, 0:26:04.770 --> 0:26:07.150 and there was, there were a couple more. Luther wasn't 0:26:07.190 --> 0:26:10.129 even the one at the time that I was thinking 0:26:10.270 --> 0:26:12.720 was going to be the the breakout star. 0:26:13.619 --> 0:26:17.439 Fonzie had a reputation, even in Philly circles. Like, my 0:26:17.460 --> 0:26:19.609 dad was an oldies doo-wop singer, like, in the 50s, 0:26:19.700 --> 0:26:22.320 and then, like, he tried to sustain his career in 0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:24.840 the 70s, so he was still kind of in the 0:26:24.900 --> 0:26:27.270 circles of Philadelphia stuff, and I always heard the name 0:26:27.350 --> 0:26:28.160 Fonzie Thornton. 0:26:28.270 --> 0:26:29.230 Right, right, sure. 0:26:29.369 --> 0:26:33.790 Like, even me not having a clue, but that name always, 0:26:33.910 --> 0:26:36.870 you know, there was a, my dad's best friend was 0:26:36.930 --> 0:26:40.810 a producer by the name of Billy Jackson. And he 0:26:41.030 --> 0:26:43.120 was part of the A & R staff at Columbia 0:26:43.130 --> 0:26:47.859 at the time. So I always heard this name, Fonzie Thornton. 0:26:48.420 --> 0:26:51.720 So I have one question about your uncle. Because even 0:26:51.780 --> 0:26:55.240 as you speak, the one thing that I noticed about 0:26:55.280 --> 0:27:00.740 your dad and your uncle, they were amazingly communicative to 0:27:00.790 --> 0:27:03.070 their audience when they would play. 0:27:03.150 --> 0:27:04.410 Sure, sure. 0:27:04.570 --> 0:27:09.030 The in-between song banter, to me, was even more iconic. 0:27:09.830 --> 0:27:14.490 than the songs that they did. And especially with the 0:27:14.530 --> 0:27:20.530 Zodiac album. How, it was rare, besides Earth, Wind & Fire, 0:27:20.590 --> 0:27:24.060 you just didn't hear people talk about like metaphysics and 0:27:24.630 --> 0:27:30.629 astrology and all those things. Just offstage, was that always 0:27:30.690 --> 0:27:31.190 your uncle? 0:27:31.770 --> 0:27:33.530 Oh, you should have heard him at home. 0:27:33.810 --> 0:27:36.410 That's what I mean. Was it like that 24-7? 0:27:36.490 --> 0:27:40.020 Oh, if there were more hours in the day. 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:41.340 Unsolicited advice. 0:27:41.859 --> 0:27:47.580 Oh, my gosh. Talking your ear off. All day long. Oh, Lord. Yeah. 0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:51.010 Was your father just the same? Oh, yeah. 0:27:51.130 --> 0:27:54.010 Both of them. Both of them. Then they continued. And 0:27:54.070 --> 0:27:56.730 of course, when Cannonball passed, then it was my dad 0:27:56.790 --> 0:28:00.889 and he was just a continuation. Okay. Nonstop. 0:28:01.150 --> 0:28:04.710 You briefly spoke of like those, like these names that 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:07.820 I would later see all on album credits and whatnot. 0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:10.440 You know, New York at this time, and especially in 0:28:10.460 --> 0:28:14.060 the 70s, is bubbling under with these musicians or these 0:28:14.140 --> 0:28:18.320 area musicians, New York, New Jersey, Nile Rodgers, Marcus Miller, 0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:22.379 Tom Brown, like a various, can you describe what the 0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:25.109 circuit was like back then? Like if I wanted to 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:31.369 get you on a gig in 1974, 75 or whatever, 0:28:31.550 --> 0:28:33.830 like how would I, I mean, now I could just 0:28:33.890 --> 0:28:36.770 DM somebody on their social media and instantly get them. 0:28:37.590 --> 0:28:39.550 How do you know that you're wanted for a gig 0:28:39.610 --> 0:28:41.690 or needed for a gig? Like what's the network like 0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:42.500 back then? 0:28:42.940 --> 0:28:46.460 Well, you did call me. I got called even in 0:28:46.500 --> 0:28:49.979 Houston back then, or even when I was in New 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:53.240 Haven back then. I could get the calls. So we 0:28:53.280 --> 0:29:00.680 did have a little community. We knew where each other was. 0:29:00.700 --> 0:29:03.240 It didn't matter if you lived in town or not. 0:29:04.380 --> 0:29:05.360 So that was easy. 0:29:05.900 --> 0:29:11.090 Yeah. You know, the 80s made it easy for technology. Like, okay... 0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.060 If you jumped to 86 or whatever, the DX7 was 0:29:14.120 --> 0:29:17.340 portable enough to throw in your trunk or whatever to get. 0:29:17.900 --> 0:29:19.440 But if you're gigging in the 70s. 0:29:19.580 --> 0:29:22.420 I wasn't carrying stuff around then. 0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:24.540 So you didn't have to carry a 73 or 88 0:29:24.540 --> 0:29:29.310 Rhodes or figure out how to get a Wurlitzer to 0:29:29.330 --> 0:29:30.090 a gig or. 0:29:30.430 --> 0:29:36.890 I don't remember gigging like that. Doing that now, unfortunately. 0:29:37.430 --> 0:29:39.350 Okay. So back then you weren't the. 0:29:39.370 --> 0:29:42.410 I have a. heavy thing I'm carrying around with my 0:29:42.530 --> 0:29:46.370 old self. I'm lugging a keyboard around to the gig. 0:29:46.390 --> 0:29:49.100 But no, back then, I don't remember doing that. Okay. 0:29:49.170 --> 0:29:53.320 You know, everything was there. And I wasn't going around 0:29:53.380 --> 0:29:55.900 to gigs. There was a piano there, you know, all 0:29:55.920 --> 0:29:57.979 the time for gigs. But for the sessions... Mm-hmm. 0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:02.280 But what if you wanted to add color to your repertoire? Like, 0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:04.700 I know there's the Rhodes and there's the piano. 0:30:05.140 --> 0:30:12.240 Everything was really there, I would say. At the time, man, 0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:16.400 I wasn't doing that. I was calling a programmer at 0:30:16.460 --> 0:30:21.260 the time. Oh, man, I was big time back then. 0:30:21.370 --> 0:30:24.840 I wasn't a little slouchy, little... Oh, I need a gig? 0:30:24.940 --> 0:30:25.760 Okay, so you weren't there. 0:30:25.780 --> 0:30:27.280 Yeah, no, man. Not like now. 0:30:27.340 --> 0:30:28.530 But even then, okay, so answer me. 0:30:28.540 --> 0:30:31.720 Now I'm slapping stuff around. Yeah, no, man. Back then, 0:30:31.740 --> 0:30:33.220 I was big time back then. 0:30:33.660 --> 0:30:36.720 You're still big time. But listen, one of your arrangement 0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:39.180 creations is one song of the year last year. Like, 0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.130 that's amazing. Even if this world of mine wasn't your 0:30:42.170 --> 0:30:44.710 composition or that, I'm just saying. 0:30:44.810 --> 0:30:46.170 I did get arranged. Okay, I didn't. 0:30:46.570 --> 0:30:50.500 Yeah, like you helped arrange the song that year. Got 0:30:50.580 --> 0:30:52.580 Kendrick Lamar, his biggest song. 0:30:52.660 --> 0:30:54.820 Yeah, but I don't get anything for. 0:30:54.660 --> 0:30:57.020 The last year. Well, but I'm getting word out there 0:30:57.180 --> 0:31:02.000 that without this man, if this world were mine's arrangement, wouldn't... Okay. 0:31:02.300 --> 0:31:03.540 This is how you spread the word. 0:31:03.780 --> 0:31:04.840 Okay, good, okay. 0:31:05.100 --> 0:31:06.260 But, okay, I do want to know. 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:07.580 A lot of people see this, right? 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:08.260 Yes. 0:31:08.720 --> 0:31:11.880 Okay. Millions of people see this. Yes. Did y'all all 0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:14.840 hear that? The world now knows. Luther from last year, 0:31:14.860 --> 0:31:15.140 that was. 0:31:15.620 --> 0:31:15.900 Yes. 0:31:15.980 --> 0:31:19.180 The original, If This World Were Mine. Yes, yes. We're 0:31:19.220 --> 0:31:20.840 going to get to that. That was my arrangement for 0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:22.960 last year. He said that, not me. 0:31:24.610 --> 0:31:24.870 Okay. 0:31:24.910 --> 0:31:25.630 That's why you're here. 0:31:25.710 --> 0:31:26.570 Oh, okay. All right. 0:31:26.870 --> 0:31:27.209 Okay. 0:31:27.370 --> 0:31:30.450 And there are four people here that are the audience for- 0:31:30.770 --> 0:31:31.270 But there are. 0:31:31.210 --> 0:31:33.210 Four million people inside that box. 0:31:33.910 --> 0:31:35.310 Ah, there you go. There you go. 0:31:35.630 --> 0:31:39.280 What was the DX7 pre-85? 0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:42.540 That still is a thing. I'll never forget that. DX7. 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:45.140 That still is a thing. I mean, but I define 0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:48.730 you like- We used that keyboard, didn't we? 0:31:48.790 --> 0:31:52.320 There are three artists, I believe, that knew how to 0:31:52.420 --> 0:31:55.920 program it right. So it didn't sound cheap. I could 0:31:55.940 --> 0:31:59.660 tell cats that would just play the factory settings. 0:32:00.060 --> 0:32:00.540 Oh, okay. 0:32:00.620 --> 0:32:03.820 And then people that would actually figure out how to 0:32:03.940 --> 0:32:07.640 craft patches so that it has warmth. 0:32:07.860 --> 0:32:10.080 A little bit? 0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:11.900 Okay, here's the deal. 0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:14.490 You know more than me. Just by um, you can 0:32:14.530 --> 0:32:17.510 program it more than I can. I can tell you 0:32:17.550 --> 0:32:19.890 that right now. I'll take that. I don't know where 0:32:19.930 --> 0:32:24.950 the button is to turn it on. I don't. 0:32:25.590 --> 0:32:26.430 Okay. Okay. 0:32:26.470 --> 0:32:26.910 Okay. 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:30.500 Okay. All right. First of all, were you a part 0:32:30.820 --> 0:32:37.840 of the Cotillion Records era Luther albums in terms of 0:32:38.220 --> 0:32:42.580 him recording or did you come aboard? Specifically during. 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:44.980 When was. 0:32:44.980 --> 0:32:45.640 78, 79. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:32:45.700 --> 0:32:46.479 I mean, before the. 0:32:47.160 --> 0:32:48.380 Before Epic, yeah. 0:32:48.550 --> 0:32:51.590 Yeah, yeah, the first two Luther... Oh, sure, man, I 0:32:51.610 --> 0:32:57.590 did those, yeah. I think Carlos has the arranging, but yeah. 0:32:57.650 --> 0:33:01.790 So the first one, Luther does call me, and I 0:33:01.850 --> 0:33:04.030 go and meet them in the studio, and we do 0:33:04.090 --> 0:33:07.610 that record. Nothing happens, but that was great. I was 0:33:07.670 --> 0:33:08.370 playing piano. 0:33:08.610 --> 0:33:08.850 Okay. 0:33:09.190 --> 0:33:13.800 You know, on that one. Uh, then again, a few 0:33:13.820 --> 0:33:16.080 years later, the second one, he called me for that one. 0:33:16.100 --> 0:33:16.219 Mm-hmm. 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:19.560 And Carlos, uh, doesn't call us, was enlisting my brother also. 0:33:19.940 --> 0:33:22.640 Were you part of any of the, the change sessions, 0:33:22.860 --> 0:33:24.100 like searching? Change? No. 0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:28.590 Okay. Not change. Uh, that happened after the second, uh, Luther. 0:33:28.750 --> 0:33:28.950 Okay. 0:33:29.190 --> 0:33:32.070 Uh, so, but I did do that record as well. Okay. Uh, 0:33:32.090 --> 0:33:34.390 and I think second time around was on that one. 0:33:34.950 --> 0:33:37.570 You know, it appeared on some, a Luther, Luther record 0:33:37.790 --> 0:33:41.350 later on. Anyway, so no, but nothing really happened with that. 0:33:42.590 --> 0:33:45.440 So I didn't hear anything. Uh, then he did those 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:48.560 change records and Luther blew up, made a little noise, 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:51.480 made a little noise then. And so then, uh, the 0:33:51.540 --> 0:33:54.660 next thing, so we're never too much is around the corner. Uh, 0:33:54.740 --> 0:33:57.490 how are you guys preparing? Well, by then, uh, I 0:33:57.510 --> 0:34:02.290 moved to Houston, uh, and, uh, have a kid. And, 0:34:03.230 --> 0:34:07.290 and the next thing I know, Luther, uh, He's singing 0:34:07.350 --> 0:34:10.360 background with Roberta. 0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:11.319 Roberta Flack. 0:34:11.340 --> 0:34:18.160 Roberta comes through Houston, calls me up, and says, I'm 0:34:18.739 --> 0:34:20.719 coming over. We hang out. And he calls me up 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:24.590 and says, he comes over to the house, and I 0:34:24.590 --> 0:34:26.910 have a great picture of him with my first daughter 0:34:28.090 --> 0:34:30.810 hanging out. He's holding her, and she's screaming her face 0:34:30.950 --> 0:34:32.270 off because I give her to him. 0:34:32.330 --> 0:34:32.430 Right. 0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:36.120 He says, I'm going back in the studio. You got 0:34:36.140 --> 0:34:39.270 to come up. Says, okay, of course. And we do 0:34:39.370 --> 0:34:44.130 four cuts. I said, okay, whatever. And I go back 0:34:44.170 --> 0:34:47.410 to Houston. Then he calls me up again from Houston. 0:34:47.530 --> 0:34:51.100 Wait, stop. Stop. You can't say we just did four cuts. 0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:53.100 We do four more cuts and nothing happens. 0:34:53.780 --> 0:34:56.900 You're not going to gloss over four cuts. 0:34:57.300 --> 0:34:58.500 Okay, well, you want to know what they are? 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:00.100 These are major cuts. 0:35:00.739 --> 0:35:04.380 Don't you know that? Something or whatever. These are defining cuts. 0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:07.180 I've been working some other stuff. I don't know. 0:35:07.219 --> 0:35:07.799 Whatever it was. 0:35:08.420 --> 0:35:12.220 Okay. Then he calls me back and does two more cuts. 0:35:12.860 --> 0:35:15.140 I said, okay, I'll come up and do two more. Okay, whatever. 0:35:15.160 --> 0:35:17.969 He flies me up from Houston. And I said, okay, 0:35:18.010 --> 0:35:22.029 I'll fly up from Houston. Okay, crazy. But I fly 0:35:22.070 --> 0:35:24.270 up and do them. And that was never too much. 0:35:24.290 --> 0:35:26.590 I remember still, like it was yesterday, I don't remember anything. 0:35:27.110 --> 0:35:29.440 I never had a good memory. And now I'm on 0:35:29.460 --> 0:35:34.620 some medication that really is messing with my memory. That's 0:35:34.640 --> 0:35:37.719 why I can't play because, I mean, I'm here because 0:35:37.780 --> 0:35:40.330 my daughter has told me, oh, dad, you're fine to talk. 0:35:41.630 --> 0:35:42.150 And you are. 0:35:42.310 --> 0:35:44.589 I'm fine to talk, you know, because otherwise I would be, 0:35:44.890 --> 0:35:47.570 I was nervous about coming because my memory is weird. 0:35:47.969 --> 0:35:50.850 But my daughter said, oh, you're fine. You're talking is fine. 0:35:51.030 --> 0:35:51.310 Yes. 0:35:51.430 --> 0:35:54.030 I just can't remember when I get to bar five. 0:35:54.430 --> 0:35:54.690 Okay. 0:35:54.730 --> 0:35:58.360 I can't remember what the chord is. Okay. By bar seven, 0:35:58.380 --> 0:36:00.060 I remember what the card was in bar five. 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:01.640 It was in bar five, and then you. 0:36:02.140 --> 0:36:04.680 But my daughter said, you're fine. Go do the podcast. 0:36:04.700 --> 0:36:06.940 You're fine. I said, okay, if you all say so. 0:36:07.380 --> 0:36:10.100 So I'm here. But I remember those sets. I remember 0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:13.420 never too much like it was yesterday. I remember Marcus. 0:36:13.440 --> 0:36:14.940 Tell me all that you remember about that. 0:36:15.460 --> 0:36:18.240 Oh, Marcus said... I count it off. One, two, three. 0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:21.310 Marcus said, boo. Boo? Huh? 0:36:21.350 --> 0:36:21.509 Right. 0:36:21.810 --> 0:36:26.640 Boo? I don't see that on the chart. Anyway... So 0:36:26.660 --> 0:36:31.250 those two, I remember that session anyways. So then about 0:36:31.790 --> 0:36:34.410 two months later, he calls me up and says, I 0:36:34.430 --> 0:36:37.570 have one more song for this record. One more song. 0:36:37.969 --> 0:36:40.130 And I said, Luther, I know some piano, but let 0:36:40.170 --> 0:36:41.710 me give you some numbers. Let me give you a 0:36:41.730 --> 0:36:44.390 couple of phone numbers in New York. Don't call me. 0:36:44.410 --> 0:36:47.720 Don't fly me up from Houston to play one song. 0:36:48.260 --> 0:36:53.149 That's ridiculous. Let me give you some phone numbers. He says, no, 0:36:53.170 --> 0:36:54.830 you got to come play this one song. I said, 0:36:55.050 --> 0:36:59.800 that's crazy. He says, no, your ticket's at the airport. 0:36:59.920 --> 0:37:01.420 I don't care what you're doing. Come and play the 0:37:01.500 --> 0:37:05.460 one song. Oh, my gosh. Okay, let me make these arrangements. 0:37:06.020 --> 0:37:07.920 So you know what the one song was that he 0:37:07.940 --> 0:37:10.520 flew me. Make a guess what that one song, he said, 0:37:10.540 --> 0:37:13.060 you got to come play the one song. I mean... 0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:15.819 On that record, on that record, he says, you got 0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:16.969 to come play this one song. 0:37:17.030 --> 0:37:19.810 I guess you're speaking of.... 0:37:21.710 --> 0:37:22.910 House is Not at Home. 0:37:22.969 --> 0:37:25.469 I got my cover wrong. I almost said Superstar. Yes, 0:37:25.969 --> 0:37:26.710 House is Not at Home. 0:37:27.530 --> 0:37:28.810 He said I had to come play House is Not 0:37:28.830 --> 0:37:30.730 at Home. Yes. So I came up to play that 0:37:30.890 --> 0:37:33.589 one song, and he flew me home. I just heard 0:37:33.610 --> 0:37:34.739 it on the radio the other day. 0:37:36.300 --> 0:37:37.180 As it should be. 0:37:37.340 --> 0:37:38.620 Just the other day, I said. 0:37:50.810 --> 0:37:52.450 Now, can I ask you questions about these sessions? 0:37:52.469 --> 0:37:55.069 Okay, so now you can ask me the question. Thank you. 0:37:55.290 --> 0:37:59.069 Okay. Welcome to the fifth hour of the Today Show. 0:37:59.469 --> 0:38:03.330 Now I'm playing. All right, so my question is, I'm 0:38:03.370 --> 0:38:09.620 always curious about when I see credits for rhythm arrangers, 0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:16.799 string arrangers, vocal arrangers, horn arrangers, background vocal arrangers. Like 0:38:16.820 --> 0:38:20.660 at one point, Michael Jackson albums are even more pronounced. 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:24.120 There's percussion arrangements and all those things. Is giving a 0:38:24.200 --> 0:38:31.310 ranger credits kind of the industry standard back then to 0:38:31.469 --> 0:38:36.410 keep you from wanting to ask, hey, so as far 0:38:36.450 --> 0:38:39.500 as the division of labor around here, Am I a 0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:44.379 producer too, or am I not? Why was it so 0:38:44.560 --> 0:38:48.620 necessary to define? Because in my mind, I would like 0:38:48.660 --> 0:38:52.549 to think that all creative decisions that went into crafting 0:38:52.610 --> 0:38:56.690 that sound, you know Luther's song, the first two seconds 0:38:56.730 --> 0:39:00.410 you hear it. Marcus is very distinctive, and I know 0:39:00.570 --> 0:39:02.089 Michael had a lot to do with that in the 0:39:02.150 --> 0:39:05.370 engineering as far as his thumb is concerned. Your lush arrangements, 0:39:05.610 --> 0:39:10.839 the patches you use, these are things that are part 0:39:10.860 --> 0:39:18.190 of the DNA of what, it's a very elegant soul 0:39:18.250 --> 0:39:23.650 sound that Leon Silvers and Kashif aren't doing. And Prince 0:39:23.910 --> 0:39:28.049 is not doing. And whoever is just in that, you know, 0:39:28.090 --> 0:39:30.219 other producers at the time. Stevie Wonder's not doing. Ray 0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:32.640 Parker Jr. 's not doing so Luther's sound is very 0:39:32.680 --> 0:39:37.440 specific so I would like to think if that creative 0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:43.280 process were happening today then those albums would have been 0:39:43.489 --> 0:39:49.029 produced by Luther Vandross Marcus Miller and Nat Adderley Jr., 0:39:50.060 --> 0:39:55.239 Why was it so important to sort of divide the 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:59.739 line of like rhythm arranger? Because you're a musician's union member. Like, 0:40:00.180 --> 0:40:03.460 would that be more money if you are listed as 0:40:03.550 --> 0:40:06.510 rhythm arranger or string arranger? Because you got credit for 0:40:06.550 --> 0:40:09.430 like these very specific things. And in my mind, you 0:40:09.469 --> 0:40:10.720 just helped co-produce it. 0:40:11.370 --> 0:40:11.830 Yeah. 0:40:11.930 --> 0:40:12.989 Did I open up a can of worms? 0:40:13.230 --> 0:40:17.750 A little bit. I'm sorry. A little bit. That's what 0:40:17.790 --> 0:40:18.129 you do. 0:40:18.210 --> 0:40:20.129 Well, okay, this is what I want to specifically know. 0:40:20.969 --> 0:40:24.910 If you are arranging a song, how long do you have... Now, 0:40:24.950 --> 0:40:26.440 you're just saying, like, I came up and played it. 0:40:27.050 --> 0:40:30.910 But no, you're also arranging these things. So how long 0:40:30.950 --> 0:40:34.570 do you have to turn the carpenters from what the 0:40:34.610 --> 0:40:35.860 carpenters is? 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:41.779 Oh, you picked that one. Well, Luther needed charts to 0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:44.680 come in and read. I mean, I guess some people... 0:40:45.070 --> 0:40:50.430 Come in, I guess everybody works differently. We had charts. 0:40:50.469 --> 0:40:51.530 Somebody had to do charts. 0:40:52.190 --> 0:40:53.750 Chord charts are like specific? 0:40:53.870 --> 0:40:56.410 Chord charts, whatever's needed. I mean, I guess, I mean, 0:40:56.469 --> 0:41:03.760 every song is different and certainly every idiom is absolutely different. 0:41:03.780 --> 0:41:07.100 So even Buddy Williams has to have drum charts to know? Yeah. 0:41:07.510 --> 0:41:10.050 Every tune is different. 0:41:10.330 --> 0:41:10.549 Okay. 0:41:10.710 --> 0:41:14.859 Sometimes the drummer will have the same chart as the 0:41:14.890 --> 0:41:19.460 keyboard player. Sometimes I may give the drummer his own 0:41:19.500 --> 0:41:21.980 thing because maybe he may just need a roadmap. 0:41:22.340 --> 0:41:22.580 Right. 0:41:23.140 --> 0:41:26.759 Maybe he needs a roadmap with some hits. Maybe his 0:41:26.840 --> 0:41:29.720 roadmap is the same as the piano. Okay. So, yeah, 0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:34.490 every song is different, but they will usually need charts. 0:41:35.530 --> 0:41:37.150 Some tunes maybe. 0:41:38.810 --> 0:41:40.090 Not. Gotcha. 0:41:40.130 --> 0:41:42.950 Maybe not, yeah. But usually, you know, I'm going to 0:41:42.989 --> 0:41:46.219 come in with a chart for every tune. And so 0:41:46.280 --> 0:41:54.300 that is the rhythm arrangement. For the rhythm arrangement means bass, drums, guitar, keyboards, percussion, 0:41:54.860 --> 0:42:00.080 whatever's in that first session. That's the rhythm arrangement. Then, 0:42:00.500 --> 0:42:06.550 you know, of course, sometimes the percussion comes afterwards. You know, 0:42:06.690 --> 0:42:12.589 the guitar could. come afterwards as an overdub. What may 0:42:12.710 --> 0:42:18.759 come as an overdub? Some keyboard stuff may come as 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:24.420 an overdub, may come as part of the rhythm arrangement, 0:42:24.820 --> 0:42:27.900 but that could come as a part of what comes later. 0:42:27.920 --> 0:42:31.180 So it may come as part of what the other 0:42:31.219 --> 0:42:33.839 arranger may get credit for. 0:42:35.340 --> 0:42:36.600 Now, that may be. 0:42:36.660 --> 0:42:40.690 The rhythm arrangement Arranger may be the arranger, so it 0:42:40.750 --> 0:42:42.050 may be the one arranger. 0:42:43.190 --> 0:42:46.530 I'm raising my hand to ask permission to interrupt you. Okay, 0:42:46.550 --> 0:42:51.950 so you're telling me that Never Too Much might have 0:42:51.969 --> 0:42:57.049 been cut without a guitar in the initial tracking of 0:42:57.070 --> 0:42:57.430 the rhythm? 0:42:57.489 --> 0:43:00.069 Could have been. It wasn't, but it could have been. Okay, 0:43:00.090 --> 0:43:00.750 because I was. 0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:04.239 Going to say, without that guitar, I would not have 0:43:04.300 --> 0:43:09.680 confidence that this is our song. Because those two, to. 0:43:09.620 --> 0:43:13.820 Me, is- That just couldn't have been. That I can't imagine. 0:43:14.020 --> 0:43:14.259 Okay. 0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:17.100 Couldn't have been. But some other cut I could find 0:43:17.860 --> 0:43:23.160 where maybe the guitar came later. Most of ours, I mean, 0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:25.380 we always cut the guitar at the same time. 0:43:25.400 --> 0:43:29.340 Got you. Okay, so there are two very specific songs 0:43:29.380 --> 0:43:32.380 I want to ask about, and not just about their crafting, 0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:37.940 but Never Too Much is such- A staple. You know 0:43:37.980 --> 0:43:38.580 this already. 0:43:38.660 --> 0:43:39.259 Unbelievable. 0:43:39.500 --> 0:43:41.670 You know there's no black wedding. 0:43:42.610 --> 0:43:45.930 Who knew at the time that never too much... I certainly... 0:43:46.430 --> 0:43:48.410 Who knew at the time that that was going to 0:43:48.450 --> 0:43:52.200 be what it has become? I didn't know. 0:43:52.780 --> 0:43:56.000 Okay, but you guys lucked onto something. Because. 0:43:56.969 --> 0:44:00.150 One take, I remember it like it was yesterday. 0:44:00.469 --> 0:44:04.870 But I want to know, who would dare try to 0:44:05.610 --> 0:44:13.540 install odd time signatures and counts in such a danceable song? 0:44:13.580 --> 0:44:17.140 Because this song is just made for two-step. It's made 0:44:17.180 --> 0:44:19.939 for two-step. Yet you have all these. 0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:22.020 Then to put that five bar in there. 0:44:22.060 --> 0:44:25.400 Yeah, it's a nightmare for cover bands. I've never heard 0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:30.240 a cover band not come out injured like a car 0:44:30.300 --> 0:44:33.760 accident with that song. If Never Too Much is playing, 0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:36.739 me and my boys are on standby like, check this out. 0:44:37.930 --> 0:44:44.750 And- I can, to this day, I can't imagine what 0:44:44.810 --> 0:44:47.540 kind of space Luther was in. when he sat down. 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:48.680 So those were his ideas? 0:44:49.280 --> 0:44:53.550 Luther wrote that. I mean, we can make a claim 0:44:54.489 --> 0:44:59.870 different times. Me and Marcus both. I wasn't there when 0:45:00.070 --> 0:45:02.989 Marcus and Luther sat down and I just showed up 0:45:03.010 --> 0:45:05.710 at the session for some of those Marcus and Luther. 0:45:05.790 --> 0:45:08.250 And Marcus just showed up at the session with some 0:45:08.310 --> 0:45:11.490 of me and Luther's tunes. So I don't know what happened. 0:45:11.550 --> 0:45:14.880 I know that some of our tunes... You know, or 0:45:14.960 --> 0:45:16.339 some of, I mean, in other words, you know what 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:17.540 I'm saying, some of Luther's tunes. 0:45:17.620 --> 0:45:17.819 Right. 0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:23.550 Yeah. What's the Luther? So amazing. Oh, yeah. I know. 0:45:23.780 --> 0:45:28.410 I put that right there in so amazing. You know 0:45:28.430 --> 0:45:28.850 what I'm saying? 0:45:28.930 --> 0:45:29.430 But with some. 0:45:29.450 --> 0:45:34.010 But I didn't do never too much. No. Luther, every 0:45:34.110 --> 0:45:35.189 single thing. I didn't. 0:45:35.750 --> 0:45:36.030 Okay. 0:45:36.530 --> 0:45:41.670 I didn't do nothing. Luther brought everything into that. I 0:45:41.710 --> 0:45:43.410 can't imagine where that came from. 0:45:44.790 --> 0:45:47.330 Okay. That was the universe guiding you guys. Were you 0:45:47.390 --> 0:45:51.250 technically also the MD on Luther's tours? When it's time 0:45:51.290 --> 0:45:53.860 to tour these records, are you his MD? Are you 0:45:53.880 --> 0:45:55.790 his musical director? Are you touring with him? 0:45:55.800 --> 0:46:00.440 If Luther ever tried to call another MD, I would 0:46:00.460 --> 0:46:01.500 have sent the mafia. 0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:05.000 Okay. So I really got questions for you now. 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:08.340 Oh my gosh. He wouldn't have lived another day. 0:46:09.340 --> 0:46:10.319 I'm glad you said that. 0:46:10.340 --> 0:46:11.360 If he had tried. 0:46:11.380 --> 0:46:13.800 Because this means you are eyewitness for all these tours. 0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:15.420 So this is what I want to know. All right. 0:46:15.500 --> 0:46:17.359 So the Luther show. 0:46:17.390 --> 0:46:20.009 So I've already cussed once in this podcast. 0:46:20.050 --> 0:46:20.430 It's fine. 0:46:20.489 --> 0:46:21.810 So we know we are right. 0:46:22.030 --> 0:46:22.750 Yes, we are right. 0:46:23.010 --> 0:46:23.370 Okay. 0:46:23.850 --> 0:46:26.930 Okay. So the quote unquote, the Luther show. 0:46:27.070 --> 0:46:29.690 I've even called you a motherfucker on this podcast. 0:46:30.130 --> 0:46:33.380 As you should, because you're an Adderley. I'll take it. 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:38.300 The Luther show was always a staple in the Thompson household. 0:46:39.530 --> 0:46:41.890 My mom and dad would go routinely to each show. 0:46:43.020 --> 0:46:47.140 And the one thing I always noticed, and side note, 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:51.480 side note is that I'm really, really good friends with 0:46:51.500 --> 0:46:55.529 the one and only Shep Gordon. So just, I'm coming 0:46:55.570 --> 0:46:57.910 in the door to let you know how I know 0:46:57.969 --> 0:47:02.250 my Lutherology from his side of things. And so the 0:47:02.290 --> 0:47:04.629 thing is, is that like the way that my mom 0:47:04.650 --> 0:47:09.720 would come home to describe Luther shows, and how elegant 0:47:09.739 --> 0:47:13.549 it was and what dress Lisa Fisher wore and how 0:47:13.570 --> 0:47:15.950 the lights looked glistening on them and all those things 0:47:16.010 --> 0:47:18.870 and the choreography and all those things. You know, now 0:47:18.930 --> 0:47:20.549 we live in a time in which there are like 0:47:20.670 --> 0:47:24.410 creative directors that we hire for artists to put things together. 0:47:25.010 --> 0:47:28.049 Was that the case back then? And how much meticulous 0:47:28.590 --> 0:47:35.740 micromanaging was put into the live presentation of these albums 0:47:35.960 --> 0:47:41.390 on tour? Like, was this all Luther's brainchild and every sequence, 0:47:41.570 --> 0:47:47.710 every light gel, every instrument, the mixing, was he that? 0:47:48.290 --> 0:47:50.210 Every detail you just said. 0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:51.110 Okay. 0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:54.399 Lord have mercy. Except for the music. I would just 0:47:54.920 --> 0:47:59.040 say he didn't come over to me. 0:47:59.080 --> 0:48:00.319 To say speed up or slow down? 0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:05.969 He didn't come over to me. Not even really that, 0:48:05.989 --> 0:48:09.150 because we would, You know, people would come and say, 0:48:09.230 --> 0:48:14.160 you'll sound just like the record. You know, jazz music, 0:48:14.219 --> 0:48:17.779 we don't really go for that as musicians, even what 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:21.020 I'm doing now. I don't go for just like the record. 0:48:21.100 --> 0:48:25.180 I don't go for just like we played the song 0:48:25.260 --> 0:48:29.129 last night. But for the Luther show, we always kind 0:48:29.190 --> 0:48:32.129 of went for just like the record, and people would 0:48:33.100 --> 0:48:35.700 Say that. Y'all sound just like the record, and that 0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:37.720 was a good thing for some reason. It was. 0:48:38.200 --> 0:48:40.070 Well, because people want to preserve that memory. 0:48:40.090 --> 0:48:40.650 I guess so. 0:48:40.670 --> 0:48:42.850 And how I remember it when I first heard it, 0:48:43.050 --> 0:48:43.890 that's how I want to hear it. 0:48:44.190 --> 0:48:46.489 I guess so. That wouldn't be a thing for me. 0:48:46.590 --> 0:48:50.390 I don't know why people love that. I wouldn't necessarily, 0:48:50.469 --> 0:48:51.590 but anyway. 0:48:51.750 --> 0:48:54.410 I come from hip-hop, which is also like... Michelle and 0:48:54.430 --> 0:48:58.350 Diego Chela coined a term called ventriloquism, which is like... 0:48:59.350 --> 0:49:02.310 And that's kind of what... The roots are like, you know, 0:49:02.350 --> 0:49:04.330 like the way that we'll loop something and sample it. 0:49:04.910 --> 0:49:07.860 I feel like we were selling a moment in time. 0:49:08.219 --> 0:49:11.779 But here's the thing, though. Your whole disposition now is 0:49:12.060 --> 0:49:15.620 actually where we should be. Like, I'm a sentimental person, 0:49:16.330 --> 0:49:18.779 so I'm always looking in the rear view mirror and 0:49:18.840 --> 0:49:22.920 loving the past. And you are clearly like, it's about today, 0:49:22.940 --> 0:49:26.730 about now, which is where we should be. So for 0:49:26.750 --> 0:49:30.989 the record, even though I'm protesting you not going down 0:49:31.050 --> 0:49:33.250 memory lane in the way that I'd like you to, 0:49:33.270 --> 0:49:36.890 I do also appreciate that it is important to be 0:49:37.700 --> 0:49:39.279 Right here in the now. Yeah. 0:49:39.520 --> 0:49:41.580 But to answer your question, the Luther, but as far 0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:43.160 as the choreography, as far as the show. 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:44.299 Oh, yeah. 0:49:44.820 --> 0:49:47.220 I mean, we know we do and people do it today. 0:49:47.260 --> 0:49:51.900 But back then that was very unique. Nobody was doing that. Luther, 0:49:52.620 --> 0:49:55.420 nobody was carrying around that kind of stuff. I mean, 0:49:55.500 --> 0:49:59.580 we in fact, I would say we simplified the show 0:50:00.260 --> 0:50:02.920 in later years because in the beginning we had the. 0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:07.200 We had an elevator up and down. We were carrying 0:50:07.219 --> 0:50:12.319 around a baby grand piano with the ballet dancer on 0:50:12.380 --> 0:50:16.090 top of the piano dancing around. I could hardly play. 0:50:16.110 --> 0:50:21.330 Because she's doing pirouettes. She's doing pirouettes with the ballet 0:50:21.370 --> 0:50:24.650 thing with the tutu flying around on top of the piano. 0:50:24.910 --> 0:50:28.080 I'm trying to play superstar. I'm missing notes and shit. 0:50:28.810 --> 0:50:32.370 I have two difficult questions to ask about this period 0:50:32.550 --> 0:50:37.239 in your creative journey. I'll ask the lighter one first. Okay, 0:50:37.420 --> 0:50:40.719 so Babyface has been on the show. El DeBarge has 0:50:40.739 --> 0:50:44.120 been on the show. Jesse Johnson of the time has 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.029 been on the show. En Vogue has not been on 0:50:47.050 --> 0:50:49.430 the show. And based on the way you just frowned 0:50:49.469 --> 0:50:51.450 right now, I'm not even going there. 0:50:51.780 --> 0:50:52.660 I didn't frown. 0:50:52.719 --> 0:50:54.440 What are you talking about? 0:50:54.460 --> 0:50:56.340 What are you talking about? 0:50:56.380 --> 0:50:59.380 Like if Quincy Jones's iron side could be played right now, 0:51:02.380 --> 0:51:06.040 that would happen. But I got to know, I got 0:51:06.060 --> 0:51:08.589 to know this question and I'll make it easy for you. 0:51:09.219 --> 0:51:11.130 You don't have to implicate yourself or anything. You don't 0:51:11.150 --> 0:51:14.840 have to gossip or nothing, but from one to 10, 0:51:14.840 --> 0:51:18.020 From one to ten. One being a walk in the park. 0:51:18.600 --> 0:51:22.420 Ten being... Don't you ask me that question. I have 0:51:22.460 --> 0:51:31.939 a feeling that the 1987-88 tour of Luther and Anita Baker... No! Shit. Oh, God. 0:51:31.980 --> 0:51:33.040 Was that 13? 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:33.980 Oh, my God. 0:51:34.000 --> 0:51:36.009 Was that 14? I'm not answering that question. 0:51:36.030 --> 0:51:36.660 And that's it. I. 0:51:43.739 --> 0:51:45.910 The reason why I wanted to ask is because, and 0:51:46.930 --> 0:51:49.170 I'm not going to ask you a question. You know, 0:51:49.310 --> 0:51:52.230 the deal wasn't established when they were opening for Luther. 0:51:53.090 --> 0:51:56.529 DeBarge was quasi-established when they were opening for Luther, but 0:51:56.570 --> 0:51:58.790 Luther was Luther, and they were opening for him. Same 0:51:58.810 --> 0:52:01.870 for Jesse Johnson. However, the only reason why I wanted 0:52:01.890 --> 0:52:04.550 to ask you this is because this is the first 0:52:04.590 --> 0:52:11.910 time in which, like, Luther and Anita are... Neck and neck. 0:52:12.610 --> 0:52:15.750 And really, to tell the truth, she put some major 0:52:15.790 --> 0:52:18.210 numbers on the board. And I always wonder, like, who decided? 0:52:18.250 --> 0:52:20.450 Was it a flip of the coin? Like, you go first, 0:52:20.469 --> 0:52:23.710 I go first. So from 1 to 10, are you 0:52:23.730 --> 0:52:26.379 telling me your number is 92 and you can't answer 0:52:26.400 --> 0:52:26.880 this question? 0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:29.120 Who decided? 0:52:29.300 --> 0:52:30.060 Of how? 0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:31.320 I have no idea. 0:52:31.460 --> 0:52:33.900 If it was hard to get through that tour. 0:52:34.800 --> 0:52:36.660 If it was hard to get through that tour? 0:52:37.100 --> 0:52:38.480 Yeah. 0:52:38.820 --> 0:52:40.380 It wasn't hard for me to get through the tour. 0:52:40.920 --> 0:52:42.180 You're Pleading the Fifth? 0:52:42.469 --> 0:52:42.879 Okay. 0:52:43.890 --> 0:52:46.180 Okay, I'm going to ask you a second question that's really. 0:52:46.200 --> 0:52:47.560 I had no problem getting through the tour. 0:52:47.980 --> 0:52:50.660 I got you. You specifically had no problem getting through 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:51.839 the tour. Okay, I'm fine with that. 0:52:52.739 --> 0:52:54.580 I smiled at everybody. Hi, how are you? 0:52:55.440 --> 0:52:57.259 You're saying a lot right now, and I get it. 0:52:57.860 --> 0:52:58.560 Hi, how are you? 0:52:59.860 --> 0:53:01.779 You minding your business? Had nothing to do with it? 0:53:01.980 --> 0:53:06.980 Actually, I never said, hi, how are you? I never... Okay, 0:53:07.000 --> 0:53:10.860 so look. One particular area that's special to me that... 0:53:11.590 --> 0:53:14.219 I might have been too young. And really, you know, 0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:16.140 there was no internet back then. I had no people 0:53:16.180 --> 0:53:16.700 to ask. 0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:21.400 As sentimental as I am about music history, I'm also 0:53:21.520 --> 0:53:26.819 like an artifact collector. So, you know, I own Buddy Williams' 0:53:27.440 --> 0:53:30.660 snare drum from the first three albums. But I have 0:53:30.680 --> 0:53:32.640 a question to ask you. And this is so hard 0:53:32.660 --> 0:53:35.049 for me to ask because really all I can go 0:53:35.410 --> 0:53:40.000 on is like one Jet article. Can you please just 0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:48.450 walk me through the Yogi Horton situation? I read Jet 0:53:48.570 --> 0:53:54.230 one day, and I'm only asking this because Yogi did 0:53:54.270 --> 0:54:00.549 one of the first drum instructional videos. So I learned 0:54:00.610 --> 0:54:03.870 a lot from him. And then when I read that 0:54:03.910 --> 0:54:09.870 he unalived himself in New York City right before a show, Right. 0:54:10.170 --> 0:54:13.709 I want to know what happened. Was the show canceled? 0:54:13.989 --> 0:54:17.750 We did the show. Who was called in to play drums? 0:54:17.830 --> 0:54:22.430 Brian Brick? Brian? Yeah. We did the show that night. 0:54:23.390 --> 0:54:27.260 We had the rehearsal that afternoon. So what happened that morning? 0:54:27.620 --> 0:54:31.880 From what you can say, what happened? Oh, I wanted 0:54:31.920 --> 0:54:34.840 to cancel the show, of course. But it was sold 0:54:35.020 --> 0:54:40.469 out and I was told by Higher ups. 0:54:41.430 --> 0:54:42.150 The show must go on. 0:54:42.170 --> 0:54:46.109 Oh, the show must go on. We're sold out. I'm like, oh, Lord. 0:54:46.150 --> 0:54:50.370 So I got on the phone and got the replacement. 0:54:50.969 --> 0:54:53.689 What type of person was he? Was he just going 0:54:53.710 --> 0:54:54.649 through life? 0:54:54.690 --> 0:54:57.870 Oh, man. He was, yeah, sure. He was having issues. 0:54:57.930 --> 0:55:02.719 I don't remember any particular problems that day. He fell out. 0:55:02.780 --> 0:55:05.580 I know he was going through some stuff, but I 0:55:05.600 --> 0:55:09.859 think he just... He fell, man. There was no... I mean, 0:55:09.910 --> 0:55:14.969 people tried to come up with crazy stories and stuff. No, 0:55:15.010 --> 0:55:21.970 there was nothing crazy. He probably fell. He didn't commit 0:55:22.050 --> 0:55:25.810 suicide or anything like that. You think it was an accident? 0:55:25.830 --> 0:55:29.670 Crazy story that somebody heard. He didn't get pushed or 0:55:29.730 --> 0:55:33.390 anything crazy like that. That's crazy. No, it was an 0:55:33.650 --> 0:55:39.180 accident and he fell. I'm sure he was... angry or 0:55:39.260 --> 0:55:43.940 excited or very worked up that time of night or something. 0:55:44.060 --> 0:55:44.940 It was an accident. 0:55:45.060 --> 0:55:46.820 And what time did it happen? 0:55:47.980 --> 0:55:50.259 Late at night, two in the morning or something. I'm 0:55:50.300 --> 0:55:52.460 not sure, but late that night before. 0:55:53.160 --> 0:55:56.640 Besides a small jet article, it was like, that's what 0:55:56.660 --> 0:55:58.680 I heard. And it was just never heard of or 0:55:58.719 --> 0:55:59.719 talked of again. 0:55:59.780 --> 0:56:02.719 And I always wanted to know. You know, we go 0:56:02.780 --> 0:56:06.980 way back. Yogi and I, he's from Teaneck also. So 0:56:07.000 --> 0:56:11.200 we were actually in rival bands growing up. In high school, 0:56:11.260 --> 0:56:17.470 he was actually in a band in Englewood. We were, oh, Lord. 0:56:18.450 --> 0:56:20.610 I was, it's been a long time. I was in 0:56:20.630 --> 0:56:24.160 the Soul Commuters, and he was in the Deltas. 0:56:24.820 --> 0:56:25.080 Okay. 0:56:25.160 --> 0:56:27.060 I'm not looking at you. Are you laughing over there? 0:56:27.560 --> 0:56:28.600 Not at all. Oh, okay. Okay. 0:56:29.710 --> 0:56:31.509 Or he could be talking to his wife over here. 0:56:31.590 --> 0:56:35.110 I don't know. I don't know who he's talking to. 0:56:35.110 --> 0:56:37.870 People usually laugh when I say I was in the 0:56:37.930 --> 0:56:43.980 Soul Commuters. Okay. Anyway, so, yeah, so we were in 0:56:44.020 --> 0:56:48.360 rival bands at the time, and we were, and actually, and, 0:56:48.400 --> 0:56:51.040 you know, Yogi at the time, when we were talking 0:56:51.120 --> 0:56:54.570 sessions back then, I was doing good sessions, but Yogi 0:56:54.630 --> 0:56:56.790 was the cat back then. He was doing a lot 0:56:56.830 --> 0:56:57.370 of sessions. 0:56:57.410 --> 0:56:57.650 I know. 0:56:58.170 --> 0:57:05.959 So actually, when we first went on tour, Yogi was 0:57:06.020 --> 0:57:10.739 the cat. I was the musical director for Luther. But 0:57:11.180 --> 0:57:16.820 Yogi was much more successful doing sessions at the time. 0:57:17.700 --> 0:57:21.790 So we were a little bit clashy in the beginning. 0:57:21.810 --> 0:57:27.740 Yogi was a little bit. difficult for me taking direction 0:57:27.760 --> 0:57:32.720 because he was more successful. Yeah, you know, we were cool. 0:57:33.300 --> 0:57:36.340 And from Tina, I mean, we were already rivals anyway, 0:57:36.400 --> 0:57:39.400 you know, so, you know, and he was older, you know, 0:57:39.440 --> 0:57:41.840 he was two or three years older than me. So 0:57:41.860 --> 0:57:44.400 it was like that, you know, but very quickly, you know, 0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:47.439 we were, you know, we were cool. We're always cool. Buddy, 0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:49.700 you're mentioning Buddy, you know, I mean, you didn't mention, 0:57:49.760 --> 0:57:51.820 I mean, I was on one, I was a member 0:57:51.860 --> 0:57:55.220 of a group that you don't know about called Natural Essence. 0:57:56.290 --> 0:57:57.170 Buddy was the drummer. 0:57:57.490 --> 0:57:58.030 Okay. 0:57:58.130 --> 0:58:00.610 Francisco Centeno, I don't know if you know him, was 0:58:00.650 --> 0:58:05.780 the bassist. Okay. You don't know him. Earl McIntyre was 0:58:05.820 --> 0:58:10.460 the trombonist. Okay. You don't know him. And so we 0:58:10.500 --> 0:58:13.900 had a record out, and we did that record. I 0:58:13.940 --> 0:58:16.040 thought it was pretty good. Most people thought it was 0:58:16.080 --> 0:58:18.660 pretty good, but we put that record out, and then 0:58:18.820 --> 0:58:22.470 I went to college and ignored that. If I was 0:58:22.510 --> 0:58:24.510 a member of that group, I would not speak to 0:58:24.550 --> 0:58:26.150 me To this day. 0:58:26.970 --> 0:58:28.229 That's how tight it was. 0:58:29.850 --> 0:58:32.530 Remember, we were working around town, working around New York. 0:58:32.590 --> 0:58:35.330 We had a thing going, and then I just said, 0:58:35.710 --> 0:58:40.080 see y'all. I decided I wanted to go to college, 0:58:40.560 --> 0:58:41.260 and I just. 0:58:41.980 --> 0:58:42.760 Didn't want to work it. 0:58:42.760 --> 0:58:43.500 Is this the Yale period? 0:58:43.540 --> 0:58:43.780 Yeah. 0:58:44.220 --> 0:58:45.920 I didn't want to work it. I wanted to go 0:58:45.960 --> 0:58:48.760 to college, and I just said bye. I mean, I 0:58:48.820 --> 0:58:51.980 could have done some stuff, of course, when I first 0:58:52.060 --> 0:58:55.830 went to I was away every weekend. I was doing 0:58:55.910 --> 0:59:00.120 Ashford and Simpson at the time. So I was away 0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:00.720 every weekend. 0:59:01.340 --> 0:59:02.440 What was that like? 0:59:02.760 --> 0:59:08.250 That was... Oh, I still... Hey, Val. I just... Jake, 0:59:08.270 --> 0:59:10.660 we gotta get her on the show yeah oh that's 0:59:10.860 --> 0:59:13.400 my heart heart I mean I. 0:59:13.380 --> 0:59:15.780 Mean I was a regular at their restaurant but really 0:59:15.800 --> 0:59:19.320 often times they will come to your oh man if 0:59:19.340 --> 0:59:21.830 you come there if you come there to eat They 0:59:21.870 --> 0:59:24.240 will come in with a microphone and put the thing. 0:59:24.610 --> 0:59:25.240 And that's the. 0:59:25.820 --> 0:59:27.030 Are you serious? 0:59:27.320 --> 0:59:27.700 I mean. 0:59:27.720 --> 0:59:32.480 Oh, I am a background singer at the table, at 0:59:32.500 --> 0:59:33.140 the sugar bar. 0:59:33.180 --> 0:59:36.320 Sometimes I just want to have some turkey meatloaf and. 0:59:36.880 --> 0:59:39.620 Oh, I'm a frustrated... Ask anybody. I'm a frustrated background 0:59:39.660 --> 0:59:42.480 singer since I was a kid. Oh, ask anybody. 0:59:42.660 --> 0:59:44.960 I would go in the 90s when the sugar bar 0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:49.750 was popping. Like... it'd be warning. Like if we sit 0:59:49.770 --> 0:59:52.470 you down and we happen to be on stage, you 0:59:52.570 --> 0:59:56.630 might have to sing around or two or whatever. And yeah. 0:59:56.910 --> 1:00:01.090 So let's, Oh, let's go tonight and get two mics. 1:00:01.310 --> 1:00:15.400 There you go. So you were also doing Ashford and 1:00:15.420 --> 1:00:17.440 Simpson at the time and, Well. 1:00:17.520 --> 1:00:22.430 That was my first big, that was me and Francisco 1:00:22.710 --> 1:00:28.670 and Buddy. So before Luther, I think that's how that 1:00:28.910 --> 1:00:34.050 and the Listen My Brother gig solidified it. I think 1:00:34.310 --> 1:00:40.180 that's how Luther felt comfortable calling me to be his 1:00:41.200 --> 1:00:44.760 first MD. His MD. Yeah, I guess, I don't know 1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:48.360 why he called me to, Well, he called me to 1:00:48.410 --> 1:00:51.970 do the first record, so I guess he was comfortable 1:00:52.370 --> 1:00:53.990 to call me to do the first sessions. 1:00:54.770 --> 1:00:56.390 I just forgot something. 1:00:56.510 --> 1:00:57.350 What am I saying? 1:00:57.390 --> 1:01:00.030 Well, we were talking about Aspen and Simpson, but there's 1:01:00.050 --> 1:01:01.510 another question I have for you. 1:01:01.550 --> 1:01:03.770 That was our first big gig. We were still in 1:01:03.810 --> 1:01:04.250 high school. 1:01:04.470 --> 1:01:04.709 Okay. 1:01:04.970 --> 1:01:08.490 And we were rehearsing the band, Natural Essence, that I'm 1:01:08.510 --> 1:01:11.620 telling you about. We rehearsed on the sixth floor of 1:01:11.660 --> 1:01:16.850 a building on 87th Street, Walter Booker. Cannonball's bassist, my 1:01:16.890 --> 1:01:20.810 desk bassist, lived on the sixth floor of a building 1:01:20.850 --> 1:01:26.430 on 87th Street. And Nick and Valerie's manager lived on 1:01:26.450 --> 1:01:29.660 the fourth floor. So when Valerie Simpson came out with 1:01:29.700 --> 1:01:32.200 her first records, which had Silly Wasn't I? 1:01:32.240 --> 1:01:32.940 Silly Wasn't, yeah. 1:01:33.080 --> 1:01:35.240 Her first record. And so she was looking for a 1:01:35.260 --> 1:01:38.340 band to do her first gig at the Troubadour in 1:01:38.380 --> 1:01:41.980 Los Angeles. She was looking for some young folks, I guess, 1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:43.220 because they're such mentors. 1:01:43.950 --> 1:01:44.290 And cheap. 1:01:44.350 --> 1:01:47.830 You know. Oh, that's all right. That's all right. That's 1:01:47.930 --> 1:01:48.850 all right. 1:01:49.250 --> 1:01:50.690 Let's keep it in mind. And cheap. 1:01:50.710 --> 1:01:53.260 That's all right. They were looking for a band. And 1:01:53.380 --> 1:01:56.020 so Nick asked for his manager, said, I hear there's 1:01:56.060 --> 1:02:02.840 some kids upstairs. I hear they're pretty good. So next 1:02:02.860 --> 1:02:06.520 thing I know, here come Nick and Valerie upstairs to 1:02:06.620 --> 1:02:11.030 our rehearsal. They come up in rehearsal, and they hire 1:02:11.870 --> 1:02:15.750 me and Buddy and Francisco to And they hired us 1:02:15.810 --> 1:02:19.750 to go and be Valerie's first band at the Troubadour 1:02:19.910 --> 1:02:24.290 in Los Angeles. That was me and Buddy and Francisco. 1:02:24.330 --> 1:02:28.419 That was our first professional big gig. We were in 1:02:28.500 --> 1:02:32.540 high school in, I guess, 12th grade. So that was 1:02:32.620 --> 1:02:34.300 our first big. So when I went to college, I 1:02:34.520 --> 1:02:37.140 was out every weekend with Valerie. 1:02:37.800 --> 1:02:39.500 How long did you stay with them? 1:02:40.410 --> 1:02:44.250 I would say that whole first year and even. Into 1:02:44.270 --> 1:02:48.290 the second, I don't know. And then it became Nick 1:02:48.310 --> 1:02:52.200 and Valerie. And I was still working with them. 1:02:52.220 --> 1:02:54.860 So you were there for like the I want to 1:02:54.880 --> 1:02:57.600 be selfish years and give me something real, like those 1:02:57.640 --> 1:02:59.280 first few albums? 1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:04.360 Up until something. And then, oh my goodness, they didn't 1:03:04.410 --> 1:03:07.690 work that much. At some point, they called me to 1:03:07.730 --> 1:03:12.980 go out. And I said, oh my gosh, stop. Nick 1:03:13.020 --> 1:03:15.020 called me, and I said, Nick, I can't go. I 1:03:16.300 --> 1:03:20.330 can't go this time. I'll never graduate. I'm about to 1:03:20.390 --> 1:03:26.010 not graduate anyway. I will never get this degree if 1:03:26.510 --> 1:03:29.770 I can't go anymore. I got three years under my belt. 1:03:30.830 --> 1:03:31.530 You got to see it through. 1:03:31.590 --> 1:03:34.660 I got to see this through. I'm not going to go, 1:03:34.680 --> 1:03:36.540 but I tell you, Ray can do it, though. 1:03:37.260 --> 1:03:37.960 Ray Chu. 1:03:38.000 --> 1:03:42.450 I had already hired Ray Chu. As the second keyboard, yeah. 1:03:42.690 --> 1:03:45.710 I said, go ahead and have Ray do it. 1:03:45.820 --> 1:03:47.820 Are you on their albums as well or just the tours? 1:03:48.040 --> 1:03:49.900 I was on the records at the time. I was 1:03:49.960 --> 1:03:52.360 on the records doing second keyboard. Valerie was playing piano. 1:03:52.920 --> 1:03:54.980 And so I was doing, so I said, go ahead 1:03:55.020 --> 1:03:57.770 and have Ray do it. Next thing I know, Ray 1:03:57.990 --> 1:04:01.890 is blown up and I have a college degree. Right. 1:04:02.330 --> 1:04:05.710 And Ray is doing all that. And I'm in Houston 1:04:05.830 --> 1:04:09.800 with my babies and, Luckily, next thing I know, Luther called, 1:04:09.940 --> 1:04:13.900 and I got that going, so it worked out. But 1:04:13.960 --> 1:04:16.200 at some point, I was in there, Lord have mercy, 1:04:16.260 --> 1:04:19.680 what have I done? I have a college degree, and 1:04:19.700 --> 1:04:24.280 I have given my gig to Ray Chu, and he 1:04:24.300 --> 1:04:25.340 is blown up. 1:04:25.480 --> 1:04:25.720 Right. 1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:28.900 And my ass is down here in a Houston apartment 1:04:29.960 --> 1:04:32.220 with babies, with lovely babies. 1:04:32.240 --> 1:04:36.600 Right. Yale is nothing to scoff at. But why was 1:04:36.680 --> 1:04:42.140 it so important that you get your receipt, your degree, 1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:48.760 when you were clearly, it was almost like you escaped 1:04:48.780 --> 1:04:51.340 the South to get free in the North. And then 1:04:51.360 --> 1:04:54.380 you're like, all right, I'm going to go back to, 1:04:55.780 --> 1:04:56.760 did you need your degree? 1:04:57.700 --> 1:04:58.780 He still don't get it, does he? 1:05:00.220 --> 1:05:00.770 I don't get it. 1:05:01.010 --> 1:05:01.820 He still don't get it. 1:05:02.790 --> 1:05:06.950 Ah, damn. Music is just an afterthought to you? 1:05:08.330 --> 1:05:11.330 I didn't want it, man. I don't want to be. 1:05:11.570 --> 1:05:13.770 Let me put it like this. When I went to Houston, 1:05:14.330 --> 1:05:18.480 when I first got there, I took a job as 1:05:18.500 --> 1:05:25.140 an accountant for eight months. That was my gig. I 1:05:25.220 --> 1:05:31.550 got up every morning and did that. Well, when I 1:05:31.590 --> 1:05:36.380 went to school, I wanted to be a lawyer. Look 1:05:36.390 --> 1:05:42.700 at my high school yearbook. Everybody in my high school said, Nat, 1:05:42.840 --> 1:05:46.920 go ahead to college. Go ahead and do your thing 1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:52.790 and get over this bullshit. You're going to come back 1:05:52.850 --> 1:05:56.270 to music. Go ahead and finish this law bullshit that 1:05:56.310 --> 1:05:59.110 you're talking about. You're going to come back to music 1:05:59.250 --> 1:06:01.980 one day and call us when you finish. Because this 1:06:02.060 --> 1:06:02.740 is crazy. 1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:05.740 So my first question I should have asked you was, 1:06:07.280 --> 1:06:11.780 when you were eight years old, what was your dream 1:06:11.900 --> 1:06:15.520 to be? I'm just assuming you came out as Adderley. 1:06:16.360 --> 1:06:19.020 You have two of the bright, not even one, you 1:06:19.060 --> 1:06:20.420 have two North Stars. 1:06:20.440 --> 1:06:21.280 I didn't know. 1:06:21.680 --> 1:06:23.560 Was there a pressure to live up to? 1:06:23.740 --> 1:06:25.980 Well, they weren't home, really. I mean, you know, at 1:06:26.100 --> 1:06:29.740 that age, they were not home. My dad was not... 1:06:29.700 --> 1:06:32.200 I mean, he was on the road all the time. Yeah. 1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:36.560 At that point, he started being home more, I guess, 1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:42.790 when I was 12 or 13, something like that. I mean, 1:06:42.810 --> 1:06:44.530 he wasn't gone all the time. I told you, there 1:06:44.550 --> 1:06:47.010 were stories. I mean, getting up and... I mean, they 1:06:47.030 --> 1:06:50.640 were home sometime, but gone way more than home. So 1:06:50.640 --> 1:06:51.140 12 or 13, home more. 1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:55.700 So... No. 1:06:55.900 --> 1:06:59.380 And then I say writing the song, no, my life 1:06:59.520 --> 1:07:05.060 was more about being just a normal kid. And that's 1:07:05.120 --> 1:07:11.280 what I would say my dad was going for. I mean, 1:07:12.350 --> 1:07:17.810 our block, our lives, my school, my life. I mean, 1:07:17.830 --> 1:07:18.670 I was in music school. 1:07:18.910 --> 1:07:20.390 So none of that was enjoyable to you? 1:07:21.260 --> 1:07:23.900 Well, sure. Well, I spent hours. The doors that opened. 1:07:23.920 --> 1:07:27.480 The people you met, and the history you made, none of. 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:30.080 That was like... That was so fleeting, though. That wasn't 1:07:30.140 --> 1:07:32.840 my life. What, the history of what? What, going out the... 1:07:33.200 --> 1:07:36.790 I mean, I spent hours at the piano practicing. So 1:07:36.890 --> 1:07:39.570 I guess that was, I don't know, enjoyable. I don't know. 1:07:39.610 --> 1:07:43.730 That was life. I wouldn't say it was enjoyable or 1:07:44.010 --> 1:07:47.730 not enjoyable. I guess it was enjoyable sitting and practicing hours. 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:54.780 It was enjoyable being alone because that's me, and it's genetic, too, 1:07:54.800 --> 1:07:59.320 because I make kids that way, too, and I make 1:07:59.500 --> 1:08:03.770 grandkids that way. I mean, my kids make even the 1:08:03.790 --> 1:08:05.230 kids that don't come out that way. 1:08:05.250 --> 1:08:05.430 Right. 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:06.860 Make kids. 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:08.600 Hi, Amelia. 1:08:09.740 --> 1:08:12.080 Make kids that way that like to go in their 1:08:12.140 --> 1:08:17.340 room and be by themselves. So, yeah, I guess I 1:08:17.400 --> 1:08:21.280 enjoy sitting at the piano for that amount of time. 1:08:22.990 --> 1:08:26.590 And it's too overwhelming for you to think, like, something 1:08:26.710 --> 1:08:32.710 that came from your creativity, your chakra, is forever. Like, 1:08:32.770 --> 1:08:34.729 music to me is just a Polaroid shot. 1:08:34.750 --> 1:08:34.910 Sure. 1:08:35.750 --> 1:08:38.929 Oh, I love it now. Oh, do I love hearing 1:08:38.990 --> 1:08:42.090 something on the radio? Yeah. Of course, something that I 1:08:42.130 --> 1:08:44.979 did that comes on the radio or being in the 1:08:45.020 --> 1:08:52.960 studio and finishing it. Oh, that's great. Just oh, it's done. Oh, 1:08:53.430 --> 1:08:57.969 thank you, Jesus. It's done. Let me walk out the studio. 1:08:57.990 --> 1:08:58.070 Yeah. 1:08:58.170 --> 1:08:58.430 But as. 1:09:00.180 --> 1:09:05.860 A kid going out for the one day, I hardly 1:09:05.900 --> 1:09:10.280 remember writing it. How long did it take to write it? Yeah, fun, fun, 1:09:10.300 --> 1:09:13.059 but I don't remember that. Then I remember going out 1:09:13.100 --> 1:09:17.420 and hanging with the boys afterwards. Going out that one day. 1:09:18.310 --> 1:09:20.930 Getting on the plane? No, I don't remember that. I 1:09:20.950 --> 1:09:24.269 remember the other. I don't remember. No, I don't remember 1:09:24.310 --> 1:09:28.610 the other 364 days that year. That's not a memory 1:09:28.710 --> 1:09:33.559 for me, making that music or living that. No, the 1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:39.360 childhood is more the memory. Being on the block, my friends, 1:09:41.140 --> 1:09:44.780 going to music and art and hanging out and not 1:09:44.820 --> 1:09:50.540 coming home for until night and and my mother fussing 1:09:50.580 --> 1:09:53.420 at me about uh call if you're not gonna come 1:09:53.460 --> 1:09:55.820 home call me so i'm not worried about you okay 1:09:55.979 --> 1:09:58.000 are you kidding me and my father being on the 1:09:58.040 --> 1:10:01.640 phone because he's not home call your mother i'm gonna 1:10:01.660 --> 1:10:03.230 have to call i'm gonna kill you when i get 1:10:03.280 --> 1:10:06.470 home call it's all right you're not gonna come home 1:10:06.510 --> 1:10:08.970 but call her right you know things like that i 1:10:08.990 --> 1:10:13.080 mean that's my memory so um So no, that's not it. 1:10:13.160 --> 1:10:14.100 And I'm telling you why. 1:10:14.160 --> 1:10:15.020 And I can accept that. 1:10:15.040 --> 1:10:17.420 Okay. And then so I went to college. I didn't 1:10:17.540 --> 1:10:21.040 want to be a musician. I got to Houston and 1:10:21.100 --> 1:10:25.090 I was an accounting clerk for eight months until- What was. 1:10:25.030 --> 1:10:27.370 It about the city of Houston that called you? 1:10:27.390 --> 1:10:31.269 I married somebody. You fell in love? My first wife was- 1:10:31.750 --> 1:10:32.050 Got you. 1:10:32.250 --> 1:10:32.450 Okay. 1:10:32.870 --> 1:10:34.670 Was a Houstonite. So we went there to have our 1:10:34.689 --> 1:10:36.920 first kid and had a second one. 1:10:37.729 --> 1:10:37.990 There. 1:10:38.189 --> 1:10:40.950 And so I lived in that area for seven years 1:10:41.030 --> 1:10:43.150 until we got divorced and I moved back to New 1:10:43.189 --> 1:10:47.520 York and the rest is history. And I got married 1:10:47.560 --> 1:10:50.120 again and had two more. And that's why the 90s 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:53.680 are absolute blur. I had two more and my wife 1:10:54.000 --> 1:10:59.820 got a McDonald's and became a long more story. Let 1:11:00.340 --> 1:11:04.060 me stop there. She may be waiting for, I hope 1:11:04.080 --> 1:11:07.009 she's gone. I hope she went back to To New Jersey. 1:11:07.050 --> 1:11:07.830 She dropped me off. 1:11:08.130 --> 1:11:08.479 I got you. 1:11:08.830 --> 1:11:12.959 I hope she went back to Jersey. Anyway, so in Houston, 1:11:13.900 --> 1:11:17.780 I worked for seven months, eight months, until a singer 1:11:17.880 --> 1:11:21.680 in town found out I was in town, called me 1:11:21.840 --> 1:11:25.200 up to come play piano bar for her from five 1:11:25.260 --> 1:11:29.540 to seven every day. So I was working from nine 1:11:29.580 --> 1:11:30.200 to five. 1:11:30.780 --> 1:11:31.600 In Houston? 1:11:31.700 --> 1:11:35.550 In Houston as an accounting clerk at Barber Steamship Company. 1:11:35.590 --> 1:11:38.429 I was as an accounting clerk from nine to five. 1:11:39.010 --> 1:11:41.290 And then I would go, well, I started getting off 1:11:41.330 --> 1:11:43.550 at five. I went in at eight. I started working 1:11:43.570 --> 1:11:46.190 from eight to four so I could get to the 1:11:46.229 --> 1:11:50.090 piano bar from five to seven and accompany the singer. 1:11:50.710 --> 1:11:54.730 I found myself making the same money for those two hours, 1:11:55.140 --> 1:11:58.680 five to seven, I was making all day as an 1:11:58.740 --> 1:12:03.360 accountant with the tips. And so I quit the job. 1:12:04.560 --> 1:12:13.960 As an accounting clerk from eight to four and continued 1:12:13.979 --> 1:12:19.360 the piano bar job. In Houston. In Houston. And I've 1:12:19.380 --> 1:12:23.040 been a musician ever since. I never, that was my 1:12:23.100 --> 1:12:26.660 last straight job. That was in, I guess I had 1:12:26.700 --> 1:12:28.240 my kid in 79. That was in 1980. 1:12:28.240 --> 1:12:28.400 Okay. 1:12:31.410 --> 1:12:34.350 So the summer of 1980 was the last time I've 1:12:34.410 --> 1:12:37.600 had a job, not as a musician. 1:12:38.600 --> 1:12:40.780 I'm going to ask you just rapid fire questions that, 1:12:41.060 --> 1:12:43.960 because I'm satisfied with the interview, but I do know 1:12:44.100 --> 1:12:47.340 that I will get murdered by the comments if I 1:12:47.360 --> 1:12:50.860 don't just ask some basic things that I'm sure that 1:12:50.900 --> 1:12:54.300 we wanted to know, which is real quick. Assuming that 1:12:54.340 --> 1:12:58.580 you're also part of the rhythm section and the personnel 1:12:58.640 --> 1:13:05.630 chosen to produce... work on luther's uh personal north stars 1:13:05.670 --> 1:13:10.150 he's made a brouhaha over you know like him wanting 1:13:10.189 --> 1:13:14.530 to work with diana wanting to work with dion wanting 1:13:14.550 --> 1:13:18.510 to work with uh aretha am i assuming that you're 1:13:18.800 --> 1:13:20.650 on the jump to it records and the get it 1:13:20.680 --> 1:13:25.519 right sessions and the whatever uh what a guy or 1:13:25.540 --> 1:13:27.320 or how many times can we say goodbye whatever whatever 1:13:27.500 --> 1:13:31.000 songs dion work did on her record Were the rhythm sections, 1:13:31.580 --> 1:13:36.700 was that cut separate from, at any point, are you 1:13:36.860 --> 1:13:41.240 having to have interactions with Aretha Franklin in the studio 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:46.410 as you're playing, whatever, Love Me Right or My Daydream? 1:13:46.689 --> 1:13:49.270 I think you guys did a cover of It's Your Thing. 1:13:50.970 --> 1:13:54.470 I grew up with 3,000 records, so I remember everything 1:13:54.510 --> 1:13:54.870 as a kid. 1:13:54.890 --> 1:13:56.020 Wow. 1:13:57.460 --> 1:14:02.340 What were those sessions like? Like the jump to it sessions, which.... 1:14:05.189 --> 1:14:09.850 Oh God, is this another? I remember music. I don't 1:14:09.870 --> 1:14:16.910 remember anything, but it's so weird. I'm so blessed with that. 1:14:16.950 --> 1:14:19.790 I don't know why that is because I don't remember 1:14:19.930 --> 1:14:23.150 anything from childhood. My younger sister was three and a 1:14:23.170 --> 1:14:26.660 half years younger, has to remind me of Everything from childhood. 1:14:26.680 --> 1:14:30.769 I don't remember stuff, but music I remember. So the Aretha. Oh, 1:14:30.820 --> 1:14:34.009 I used to love. Remember this one? If she don't 1:14:34.330 --> 1:14:36.310 want your love. 1:14:36.430 --> 1:14:37.150 Yes, of course. 1:14:37.229 --> 1:14:39.630 Oh, I love that one. Yeah, I did that. 1:14:40.470 --> 1:14:40.890 Oh, yeah. 1:14:40.930 --> 1:14:50.890 Aretha. Flex. I mean, I remember all that. 1:14:50.910 --> 1:14:54.930 This leads me to a part two of this Aretha thing. Now, 1:14:55.430 --> 1:14:59.750 never too much, we've already established, classic song, works on 1:14:59.770 --> 1:15:04.230 the dance floor, everything. I always felt, now, here's the thing. 1:15:05.689 --> 1:15:09.360 You know, there's Luther the balladeer, and then what I 1:15:09.400 --> 1:15:16.080 would say, Luther the non-balladeer. And his very specific style 1:15:16.700 --> 1:15:21.139 of non-ballad songs, the fast songs, You know, like, Bad 1:15:21.189 --> 1:15:27.600 Boy was a shuffle song. You know, there's even a 1:15:27.660 --> 1:15:29.920 point where, like, what I would call, like, the Luther 1:15:29.979 --> 1:15:33.200 shuffle of, like, give me the reason, stop to love, 1:15:33.700 --> 1:15:36.880 have the same sort of boom, boom, ding, boom, boom, ding. Like, 1:15:36.900 --> 1:15:42.800 that feel. Fast songs. But compared to what's in the marketplace, 1:15:43.160 --> 1:15:45.720 you know, like, what Jammin' Lewis are doing, like, it's 1:15:45.760 --> 1:15:47.060 hard to DJ those things. 1:15:47.360 --> 1:15:48.179 Right, right, right. 1:15:48.200 --> 1:15:52.240 But they're such a staple. in terms of his canon, 1:15:52.479 --> 1:15:59.290 his repertoire, and all those things. And you're giving get 1:15:59.330 --> 1:16:05.670 it right to Aretha and jump to it. How hard 1:16:05.729 --> 1:16:12.299 was it to really give Luther a funk bomb that 1:16:12.420 --> 1:16:17.860 is at least in the same territory as Never Too Much? Because, yeah, okay, 1:16:17.979 --> 1:16:23.429 I'll let you slide, what's cool, You know, Stop the 1:16:23.470 --> 1:16:23.930 Love was. 1:16:24.970 --> 1:16:25.490 It did well. 1:16:25.570 --> 1:16:28.050 It's over now. It's over now. I would say it's 1:16:28.150 --> 1:16:30.530 probably the only fast song in which. 1:16:30.640 --> 1:16:32.020 That got up in there. 1:16:32.060 --> 1:16:34.740 That got life on the dance floor. But was it. 1:16:34.740 --> 1:16:36.180 I don't know. 1:16:36.220 --> 1:16:39.000 Was it hard to try to give him an up-tempo 1:16:39.200 --> 1:16:40.660 bop there? 1:16:40.960 --> 1:16:43.760 I don't know how anybody... I know where I was 1:16:43.900 --> 1:16:49.360 at with Give Me the Reason. Okay. I just was... 1:16:50.689 --> 1:16:55.840 Into the British thing. You don't hear that? I mean, 1:16:55.860 --> 1:17:00.120 that's where I was. Good. That didn't come out obvious. 1:17:00.740 --> 1:17:05.080 Maybe I shouldn't say it now. You should. 1:17:05.160 --> 1:17:05.700 It's history. 1:17:06.860 --> 1:17:09.339 It's unique to Luther, but. 1:17:09.320 --> 1:17:11.580 No one else is doing it. And it's almost like 1:17:12.140 --> 1:17:16.750 DJs need six or seven other songs that feel the 1:17:16.770 --> 1:17:17.490 same in order to. 1:17:18.189 --> 1:17:22.700 Well, it just never worked. And we talk about it 1:17:22.740 --> 1:17:26.540 all the time now with Luther being so huge now, 1:17:26.560 --> 1:17:31.080 with this being Luther's year now, you know. Yeah. We 1:17:31.140 --> 1:17:34.280 always talk about, I wish they'd find something else. And 1:17:34.360 --> 1:17:38.240 so my family, we always talk about Stop to Love, obviously, 1:17:38.300 --> 1:17:41.440 because it was number one here for a couple of weeks. 1:17:41.580 --> 1:17:42.660 Yeah. 1:17:43.540 --> 1:17:45.380 So we always say, well, I wish they'd go find 1:17:45.420 --> 1:17:49.729 Stop to Love. But, no, it doesn't sound like– A 1:17:49.790 --> 1:17:52.550 DJ could fit it in somewhere. It's not danceable here. 1:17:53.650 --> 1:17:58.020 But that was, well, that came from- It was still 1:17:58.060 --> 1:17:58.900 loved and received. 1:17:59.320 --> 1:17:59.500 Yeah. 1:17:59.520 --> 1:18:01.300 Well, that came from Give Me the Reason. Give Me 1:18:01.360 --> 1:18:06.000 the Reason came from me sitting there and it was, 1:18:06.020 --> 1:18:11.280 I don't know, what was that? The fourth was, that 1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:15.090 was that record. Right. So that was me just was- 1:18:19.070 --> 1:18:26.389 I was copying London, Great Britain, great. Nobody ever thought 1:18:26.410 --> 1:18:29.910 about that good. So I was listening to British and 1:18:29.930 --> 1:18:33.390 let me give him, he's big over there, let me 1:18:33.430 --> 1:18:36.770 give him something British. Great, it doesn't sound like that. 1:18:36.850 --> 1:18:42.080 And we just did that. And the bass was not quantized. 1:18:42.140 --> 1:18:44.300 I don't know if you, I read that somewhere. I 1:18:44.360 --> 1:18:48.330 read that in a review somewhere. The drums were, you know, 1:18:48.350 --> 1:18:48.970 the basses. 1:18:48.990 --> 1:18:49.970 But the bass was split last. 1:18:50.110 --> 1:18:54.030 The bass was live. Okay. Okay. And that did what 1:18:54.110 --> 1:18:54.550 it did. 1:18:54.689 --> 1:18:55.150 Right. 1:18:55.300 --> 1:18:59.280 And it was fine. And, gosh, it did very well 1:18:59.340 --> 1:19:05.320 in London. So then that did very well. Grammy number 1:19:05.340 --> 1:19:05.880 hit even. 1:19:06.040 --> 1:19:06.180 Yes. 1:19:06.220 --> 1:19:07.480 So then the deal was. 1:19:10.600 --> 1:19:14.090 Oh, actually, that was for a movie. That was for 1:19:14.170 --> 1:19:15.990 a movie. That was for a movie. 1:19:16.170 --> 1:19:16.370 Right. 1:19:16.470 --> 1:19:19.970 So then the deal was, oh, we got to do 1:19:20.030 --> 1:19:20.929 something like that. 1:19:21.390 --> 1:19:23.690 So Stop the Love is his twin. I got it. 1:19:23.910 --> 1:19:27.640 The answer to that. And that was quantized. And I 1:19:27.700 --> 1:19:33.540 saw a review. Oh, they learned how to quantize everything. 1:19:33.620 --> 1:19:38.440 Stop the Love is the... Right. The better, the correct. 1:19:38.720 --> 1:19:39.440 Improved version. 1:19:39.540 --> 1:19:41.300 The improved version of Give Me the Reason. 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:46.380 What was the hardest song to make during that initial period? 1:19:46.400 --> 1:19:48.660 By the way, Better Love was the answer to Never 1:19:48.680 --> 1:19:49.220 Too Much, you know. 1:19:51.090 --> 1:19:52.110 Of course. Yes. 1:19:52.350 --> 1:19:58.349 I mean, Better Love was Luther coming through Houston again. 1:19:58.370 --> 1:19:58.450 Okay. 1:19:59.210 --> 1:20:02.270 Coming to the apartment. Never Too Much was out. Said, oh, 1:20:02.290 --> 1:20:04.980 we got to do another Never Too Much. And he 1:20:05.030 --> 1:20:08.580 showed me Better Love. Nat, you got to finish this. 1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:13.740 Go finish that. Oh, okay. 1:20:14.140 --> 1:20:17.780 Hip Hop Heads, Better Love would be the Young Guns. 1:20:18.689 --> 1:20:20.690 Better love, if you're a rock and roll person. 1:20:20.750 --> 1:20:21.370 No better love. 1:20:21.590 --> 1:20:22.250 Yeah, no better love. 1:20:22.270 --> 1:20:22.750 No better love. 1:20:22.770 --> 1:20:23.170 Exactly. 1:20:23.189 --> 1:20:24.600 Did very well. Thank you very much. 1:20:25.030 --> 1:20:25.480 There you go. 1:20:25.680 --> 1:20:27.000 Love it, love it, love it. 1:20:27.280 --> 1:20:31.620 Okay, because the cover song is such a staple in 1:20:31.660 --> 1:20:36.720 the Luther world. Is there a cover attempt that you 1:20:36.740 --> 1:20:41.120 guys tried that maybe mid-session you're like, nah. 1:20:41.540 --> 1:20:42.120 A cover? 1:20:42.860 --> 1:20:44.800 A cover song. I mean, you guys pretty much have, 1:20:45.840 --> 1:20:47.780 your covers are so distinct that a lot of us 1:20:47.820 --> 1:20:50.740 think that They're the originals. So, I mean, you know, 1:20:50.780 --> 1:20:54.059 like each song has, each album has its own cover song. 1:20:55.120 --> 1:20:56.100 I do not remember. 1:20:56.120 --> 1:20:58.240 Is there a song that just wound up on the 1:20:58.280 --> 1:21:01.100 cutting floor of like, we did a cover of blah, blah, blah, blah, 1:21:01.120 --> 1:21:03.830 blah on? 1:21:04.070 --> 1:21:06.530 No, but I know a song that I wanted to 1:21:06.830 --> 1:21:08.270 be on the cutting. 1:21:08.850 --> 1:21:09.090 What? 1:21:09.390 --> 1:21:09.850 I know a song. 1:21:09.890 --> 1:21:10.670 What don't you like? 1:21:11.350 --> 1:21:14.010 Oh, no, I like it enough now, I guess, but 1:21:14.070 --> 1:21:16.130 I know what song I did not want to do 1:21:16.170 --> 1:21:18.470 when he called me and wanted to do it. Superstar? 1:21:18.979 --> 1:21:20.680 Yes. Dog. 1:21:21.860 --> 1:21:22.439 Yes. 1:21:22.960 --> 1:21:24.560 I feel like Fonte. Shout out to Fonte. 1:21:24.840 --> 1:21:25.450 Speak on it. 1:21:26.439 --> 1:21:29.950 Well, wait. This is what I want to know about Superstar. Wait, wait. 1:21:29.990 --> 1:21:31.630 Superstar? What do you call it? 1:21:32.390 --> 1:21:32.750 But wait. 1:21:32.990 --> 1:21:33.370 No. 1:21:33.390 --> 1:21:34.090 But wait. 1:21:34.130 --> 1:21:35.110 Before you give me the story. 1:21:35.170 --> 1:21:42.299 You like soup. Don't you? You want to do that? No, Luther, no. 1:21:42.439 --> 1:21:43.679 That's not a good idea. 1:21:43.700 --> 1:21:44.059 Dude. 1:21:45.650 --> 1:21:48.270 Let's do close to you. How about that one? If 1:21:48.310 --> 1:21:50.150 you like the carpenters, let's do close to you. 1:21:51.470 --> 1:21:52.570 Ah, yes. Okay. 1:21:53.570 --> 1:21:55.219 I didn't like that idea at all. 1:21:55.250 --> 1:21:56.889 Thank you for giving me that. You gave me something. 1:21:57.229 --> 1:21:59.099 Is this how my face looked when you said the thing? 1:21:59.110 --> 1:22:03.500 Yeah. When I said it, I was like, you and 1:22:03.540 --> 1:22:06.560 Bill Withers almost have the same mannerisms whenever I talk 1:22:06.580 --> 1:22:10.580 to you. Getting a tender answer out of him is 1:22:10.620 --> 1:22:14.000 almost like a boxing round of 15 matches. And finally, 1:22:14.020 --> 1:22:17.060 I got one punch in. Yes, you gave me something. Okay, 1:22:17.100 --> 1:22:19.120 the thing with Superstar is, though, this is what I 1:22:19.180 --> 1:22:23.400 always wanted to know, is for those that didn't know better, 1:22:24.740 --> 1:22:31.320 it's like the intro is just two lines of the 1:22:31.360 --> 1:22:36.000 Stevie Wonder pinned, until you come back to me, that's 1:22:36.020 --> 1:22:38.960 what I'm gonna do, from Aretha Franklin. Just as an intro. 1:22:39.840 --> 1:22:43.460 Of which, I'm assuming you guys had to pay full 1:22:43.479 --> 1:22:47.450 scale for it, even though you're not doing the entire song, 1:22:47.470 --> 1:22:49.370 you're just doing... So it's almost like some hip hop 1:22:49.390 --> 1:22:51.950 shit where, all right, I just want to take these 1:22:51.990 --> 1:22:53.889 two songs. I want to tell you, baby, the changes 1:22:53.930 --> 1:22:57.110 I've been going through. At any point, was it just like, hey, 1:22:57.430 --> 1:23:01.320 why don't we just come up with just a different intro? 1:23:01.880 --> 1:23:04.000 And so we don't have to pay full scale for 1:23:04.220 --> 1:23:07.679 just using 15 seconds. Like the 15 seconds, Stevie Wonder 1:23:07.700 --> 1:23:11.260 will get credited for And Clarence Paul and the writers 1:23:11.340 --> 1:23:13.660 of Until You Come Back to Me. Why was it 1:23:13.720 --> 1:23:16.160 so important that those two be meshed together? 1:23:16.840 --> 1:23:22.870 Luther would never not do something for a reason like that. 1:23:23.090 --> 1:23:25.290 Who talks him off the ledge? Are you the ledge talker? 1:23:25.330 --> 1:23:29.090 Is Marcus the ledge talker? Who's the person that says, hey, 1:23:29.110 --> 1:23:30.390 you sure about that? Nobody. 1:23:31.250 --> 1:23:31.800 Nobody. 1:23:32.590 --> 1:23:34.730 No one puts baby in the corner. 1:23:35.070 --> 1:23:38.900 No one is ever able to talk Luthor off of 1:23:39.070 --> 1:23:39.640 any ledge. 1:23:40.220 --> 1:23:40.580 Got you. 1:23:41.720 --> 1:23:45.860 That would, trying to talk him off of a ledge 1:23:46.000 --> 1:23:51.720 would just make him. 1:23:49.720 --> 1:23:52.049 Jump further off of the ledge. So you don't know 1:23:52.090 --> 1:23:56.750 a Jedi mind trick? Never tried it. Sometimes I make 1:23:56.790 --> 1:23:59.790 a person think that my idea is their idea. 1:24:00.050 --> 1:24:03.110 Never tried it. It's too late. I never tried it. 1:24:03.110 --> 1:24:03.710 It's too late. 1:24:03.850 --> 1:24:04.150 Okay. 1:24:04.930 --> 1:24:08.070 Damn, I'll try that. Because I do intend to go 1:24:08.150 --> 1:24:12.490 lift him out the grave and whoop his... Because I 1:24:12.689 --> 1:24:15.849 am very upset with him anyway. Because, you know, we 1:24:15.979 --> 1:24:20.360 never toured Asia at all. We never went to Japan 1:24:20.580 --> 1:24:21.060 or China. 1:24:21.080 --> 1:24:21.439 Never. 1:24:21.460 --> 1:24:21.960 Not once. 1:24:22.200 --> 1:24:22.980 Why not? 1:24:24.240 --> 1:24:29.459 He didn't... Because the record company was never willing to... 1:24:31.740 --> 1:24:36.280 Pay for him to bring all his shit on a 1:24:36.360 --> 1:24:41.250 plane or boat over to China and lug it all 1:24:41.310 --> 1:24:46.310 around the damn country, excuse me, to, you know, the 1:24:46.600 --> 1:24:50.280 elevator and the dancers and the piano and the. 1:24:51.030 --> 1:24:52.750 He wouldn't do a scaled down version of it. 1:24:52.750 --> 1:24:54.970 He would not do it. I said, Luther, how about 1:24:55.090 --> 1:24:56.610 me and you go the first time? 1:24:56.630 --> 1:24:57.830 Yeah, piano voice. 1:24:57.850 --> 1:25:00.270 Just me and you go the first time and set 1:25:00.310 --> 1:25:02.770 it up, and then we can go and bring all 1:25:02.850 --> 1:25:06.090 your shit. He never wanted to do all that. So 1:25:06.550 --> 1:25:09.530 every time I get a royalty check now, I'm thinking, 1:25:09.729 --> 1:25:12.300 what would this be if we just went over there 1:25:13.350 --> 1:25:17.580 one time? There you go. What about a second time? 1:25:17.620 --> 1:25:18.260 What would it be? 1:25:19.060 --> 1:25:21.500 So when I go and lift him out of his 1:25:21.580 --> 1:25:27.520 grave just to punch him three or four times, I 1:25:27.540 --> 1:25:31.439 have an extra few things to... I'm writing a list. 1:25:31.580 --> 1:25:32.600 Am I going to see you at the Rock and 1:25:32.620 --> 1:25:33.940 Roll Hall of Fame when he gets inducted? 1:25:34.500 --> 1:25:37.760 Are you going to see... I will be there. You'll 1:25:37.780 --> 1:25:38.120 be there? 1:25:38.140 --> 1:25:39.550 Because I'm one of the members that. 1:25:40.160 --> 1:25:46.500 I haven't decided. I guess I should go. I have a... Oh, 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:49.439 I have a weekend. I have a great gig. I 1:25:49.500 --> 1:25:52.840 really want to go do in Los Cabos. Okay. They 1:25:52.860 --> 1:25:55.200 want me to bring my trio down to Los Cabos 1:25:55.240 --> 1:25:58.100 for the weekend. I would love to go, but it's 1:25:58.150 --> 1:26:02.150 the same weekend. I haven't decided. Okay. 1:26:02.530 --> 1:26:03.510 I'm hoping I see you there. 1:26:03.550 --> 1:26:05.889 Whether I should be there. I guess I should. 1:26:05.910 --> 1:26:07.290 I think you should. 1:26:07.430 --> 1:26:13.910 Okay. I haven't been invited. I shouldn't need to be invited. 1:26:14.110 --> 1:26:14.809 I haven't decided. 1:26:14.830 --> 1:26:17.340 I know a few people. I will make a phone call. 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:18.740 No. 1:26:19.370 --> 1:26:26.210 Look, I really appreciate this uncomfortable exercise. This is not 1:26:26.310 --> 1:26:29.229 just a Kendrick Lamar Luther moment. I mean, we can 1:26:29.250 --> 1:26:32.760 go Kanye slow jams. We can go all over the 1:26:32.780 --> 1:26:39.100 place with your work. But, yeah, for me to hear 1:26:40.080 --> 1:26:44.510 my drum teacher play me a song in which he's 1:26:44.550 --> 1:26:47.920 telling me, like, Yeah, there's an 11-year-old taking a solo 1:26:47.960 --> 1:26:51.420 on the piano, and I'm 11, and I'm like, I 1:26:51.439 --> 1:26:55.269 can do this? So I guess I will say that 1:26:55.550 --> 1:27:01.009 my drum teacher was probably using that intro song almost 1:27:01.210 --> 1:27:10.889 as a portal for me to dream, which we weren't necessarily, 1:27:11.570 --> 1:27:14.300 parents want a safety. Get a job, go to college. 1:27:15.310 --> 1:27:18.910 Get a good job, get good money. And it's risky 1:27:18.950 --> 1:27:22.830 to dream. And yeah, I got to say that I 1:27:22.890 --> 1:27:26.790 think I specifically just wanted you on this show because 1:27:26.810 --> 1:27:30.450 to bring that Jules Benner and West Philadelphia drum lessons 1:27:30.810 --> 1:27:34.350 moment full circle that I get to speak to the 1:27:34.400 --> 1:27:38.860 person that just planted the tiniest seed of like, wow, 1:27:38.960 --> 1:27:41.080 a kid wrote that song, a kid my age. And, 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.500 you know, and then it brought me to my destiny. 1:27:44.960 --> 1:27:47.320 And yeah, you make cool stuff. So I thank you. 1:27:48.020 --> 1:27:51.200 Thank you very much, man. Let me just say, man, 1:27:51.280 --> 1:27:54.700 I just got to say, man, I mean, to know, 1:27:54.740 --> 1:27:58.280 I mean, I knew, I knew, but I know more. 1:27:58.340 --> 1:28:02.200 Thank you. Thank you, Carolyn, so much. Thank you. And 1:28:02.400 --> 1:28:06.490 just to know, man, more who you are. I mean, 1:28:06.510 --> 1:28:10.809 I knew, but man, just to catch up a little 1:28:10.830 --> 1:28:11.490 bit more, man. 1:28:11.510 --> 1:28:12.350 We're two friends kicking it. 1:28:13.020 --> 1:28:21.570 Well, my favorite thing, man, I understand everything. My political leanings, 1:28:22.330 --> 1:28:24.790 first of all. And I told you, I mean, I 1:28:24.830 --> 1:28:28.189 was not available in the 90s. I wasn't even available 1:28:28.990 --> 1:28:31.990 in the 2000s. Yeah. But to go back, man, so 1:28:31.990 --> 1:28:36.530 much respect, man. Thank you. Man, I love it, love it. 1:28:36.610 --> 1:28:41.260 And I understand everything. I don't need to look. I 1:28:41.580 --> 1:28:47.360 understand every word. Thank you so much for putting out 1:28:47.580 --> 1:28:51.479 music and lyrics that I can listen to. And I 1:28:51.680 --> 1:28:56.430 understand everything and love it. And it's intelligent. And all 1:28:56.450 --> 1:28:57.259 that is. 1:28:59.390 --> 1:29:01.160 You're the seed of all that. Now we're going to 1:29:01.189 --> 1:29:05.150 spend the next five minutes over using compliments as a weapon. 1:29:05.170 --> 1:29:07.710 All right. We're out, y'all. I'll see you on the 1:29:07.750 --> 1:29:09.150 next go around. Thank you. 1:29:09.170 --> 1:29:10.030 Thank you very much. 1:29:10.070 --> 1:29:19.670 Thank you. The Questlove Show is hosted by me, Amir 1:29:19.770 --> 1:29:23.450 Questlove Thompson. The executive producers are Sean G. 1:29:23.850 --> 1:29:30.099 Brian Calhoun, and me. Produced by Brittany Benjamin and Jake Payne. 1:29:31.270 --> 1:29:36.690 Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown. Edited by Alex Conroy. 1:29:37.390 --> 1:29:42.800 iHeart video support by Mark Canton. Logos, graphics, and animation 1:29:42.840 --> 1:29:49.580 by Nick Aloi. Additional support by Lance Coleman. Special thanks 1:29:49.620 --> 1:29:53.660 to Kathy Wong. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandela. 1:29:55.240 --> 1:29:58.939 Please subscribe, rate, review, and share the Questlove show wherever 1:29:58.960 --> 1:30:02.179 you stream your podcast. Make sure you follow us on socials. 1:30:03.000 --> 1:30:09.580 That's at QLS. Check out hundreds and hundreds of QLS episodes, 1:30:09.640 --> 1:30:13.260 including the Questlove Supreme shows in our podcast archives. The 1:30:15.840 --> 1:30:18.200 Questlove show is a production of iHeartRadio.